Does the Ray Peat Diet Heal Metabolism? ft. Kate Deering | Ep. 86

What's up, friends? Welcome back to the show. Today, I spoke to Kate Dearing. She is an author and a nutrition coach, and we talk about who is this Ray Peak character and his whole philosophy. She understands it probably better than most people on the planet. We really talk about healing your metabolism, the importance of getting your nutrition from real food, why there's no such thing, really, as good and bad foods, and that level of thinking just gets us into trouble. Um, can people overcome dairy intolerance? And we finish with some good tactical and actionable steps, as Kate shares her top three tips for thriving and wellness. This is information-packed and dense. I know you're going to get a lot from this one. So, without further ado, Miss Kate Dearing.

Kate Dearing, welcome to the show. It's a pleasure to talk to you today.

Happy to be here. Super excited. I want to kick this off. I want to get right into it. Who is this Ray Pete character and why is he blowing up? Why is he so popular? What is a Pete? I think you know this, um, more than most. So tell me a little bit about Ray Pete.

Uh, well, that's a great question. Um, well, he was a biologist. Uh, he basically was studying and what they refer to as now the bioenergetic space of health and nutrition. I don't think he really coined that term. I, I don't think he coined any terms. I think Ray was just an individual looking for the truth and asking question after question that would make him go down probably different rabbit holes than what most people were standard teachings would teach you. I think he constantly questioned the status quo, and read numerous other researchers who were also questioning the status quo, and to try to understand, is this all making sense? So when you start to read Ray's work, it is complex and it kind of makes your head hurt a lot because you're like, how is he getting to these conclusions? Where is he going? And he kind of talks in a language that is just Ray. And so he, I, I think, and whether it's purposeful or not, he definitely wants you to think about yourself and the situations and ask more questions. And so he's definitely someone that's like, let's just, just not take whatever is being told to you and let's start to question it and put it into different contexts and understand when it's true and when it's not. Because, and I think that's what he also kind of created too, is making context really important when, certainly in the world with nutrition, because it all changes depending on the context. And when you can understand that with nutrition, you'll start getting so confused because then all of these different thought processes or protocols can make sense in certain contexts, and then other contexts, they don't. And so Ray was really good with helping people understand, we're trying to go well, in this situation, this is why this is working. And then this other situation, it might be detrimental to you. But if we want, but ultimately, we want it for you to get into this situation so that it can work for you.

So, in my experience with Ray, and I, and I did numerous podcasts with him and exchanged numerous, numerous hundreds of emails with him, he was just literally one of the most giving, selfless individuals on this planet that was really just feeling that it was his duty to share his information without trying to charge everybody for it. And on a numerous level, I mean, he, you know, he was 86 when he passed, and he was working to the, you know, to that end of that day. And I think that's the way he probably chose and wanted to go out in this world. So, for that, but I think, you know, all of us have learned immensely from him and continued to want to share his perspective because I think he had a lot of things right, or most things right.

Yeah, I think in, in the current day, people are really starting to wake up to this idea that, you know, truth isn't what we've been told it is, always, or it's certainly not as black and white as we are, you know, given or served up by, whoever the three-letter governing agencies and stuff like that. And it's almost a, it's, it's a tragic case in the sense that Ray is almost gaining more popularity after he passed away, but it's a wonderful testament to his work and his curious mind. And it's infiltrating my sphere more and more every day. I first heard the the name Ray Pete probably a few years ago, and now every time I jump on Twitter or I speak to guests that you're probably familiar with, like Jay Feldman and those people, they've been massively influenced by Ray Pete's work. And I know it's influenced how you guide and how you write and how you coach and everything like that too. So maybe, I mean, you can correct me if I'm wrong here, because it sounds like that, you know, word nuance gets us, uh, gets us in trouble today. But what is the Ray Pete diet? Is there such a thing?

I would say no. I mean, and he would say no as well. In fact, when he would be asked that question, he would be like, I don't even know what people are talking about. There's no Ray Pete now. Ray would certainly say what he was eating and how he would try to solve certain symptoms or situations. But I think there's a generalized food that people are told to eat. And, and those, and and they're basically these foods are suggested usually because they have an an ease of digestibility, the nutrients are bioavailable, um, they have low anti-nutrients or things in there that might create digestive distress. And, and those are the basis of why those foods are recommended. Can everybody handle those foods at their current state of health? No. Will everybody have a great response to those foods? No. Um, but that should be a basis of what we want, want to try to get them to to start using. Certainly, he certainly was a person that supported the use of carbohydrates, and primarily because that is the preferred and best energy source, and we do produce the most energy over time with utilizing carbohydrates as our fuel source. And he was clear on what those carbohydrates were. Those were primarily fruits or tropical fruits, and honey, or even white sugar, or, um, some starches. Although Ray didn't eat any of those. He didn't eat, I don't think he ate sourdough bread for the last 20 or 30 years. He hadn't eaten potatoes. Um, but he wouldn't tell you those were bad foods. He would say, absolutely, these are good foods. They, the way they're prepared is prop, is is good. Sourdough is good, is how it's prepared. Um, potato can be filled with lots of potassium and other nutrients. However, for him and wherever he was in his state of his life, those foods were not being used by him. And, but do I use them? Absolutely. Does my body function well with them? Sure. Do other people work well with those? No. And so, so what he constantly wanted to grasp is that, again, the context of you and where you are in your health will depend on what diet is needed for you personally. I mean, I've put people on almost a vegetarian diet with some protein sources that are animal-based, but because that's what their system needed initially, and we're working through those. And that's why I believe some diets that are extreme can work really well for people with their certain situations. It's just not in my, not be the best long-term approach for longevity or health. But can they be used to get them out of a certain situation? Sure, absolutely. We just don't want to maybe stay there. And so his approach was always very fluid. As you change, maybe the diet changes. And so if you are well aware of how your system functions and what resources it needs to function optimally, then you can transition and change as new things happen in your life, where it's more stressed, or maybe you become less stressed, and then you can add more foods into your diet.

Yeah, this bio-individuality piece, and the fact that, you know, what got us here is not necessarily going to be the thing that gets us there. And just because something worked for a period of time doesn't mean it's going to work forever. It seems to make a lot of sense when you state it out loud. But the dietary space becomes wrapped around the axle on ideologies, right? And carnivore is is a really good example. Um, Paul started the, I've had my bouts with carnivore, and because at that time, it works wonderfully. You feel amazing, and it's probably because you're eliminating a lot of the things that are causing the digestive distress, etcetera, and you're healing. And then maybe if you stay on that long enough, the wheels start to fall off. And then you start to add back in these foods. And, and it could be a variety of things. That might be veganism, that might be all. I think it's opening your mind to the possibility that different things work for different people at different times, but not getting too wedded to, this is the way, and becoming like, borderline religious fanatic about, this is the diet for everyone. Which we see happening all over social media, right? It's the vegans arguing with the keto phob, and the, you name it. So what are some of the more prevalent ones that you see in that space? And how do you, how do you think we combat some of that and just help people understand that, um, healing is complex, and different people have different needs? And if we focus in on these core principles, that's how we get there.

Yeah, I mean, that's a great question. I mean, what I usually get, I, I get a lot of people coming from a low carb, whether it's carnivore or keto. And a lot of them got into those approaches because they wanted to lose weight. And so obviously, removing an entire macronutrient usually can do that. So whether they actually went into a calorie deficit and that's why they lost weight, or whether they had extreme digestive issues and removing all the gut irritants helped them lose weight, which can also happen. So they usually, if they stick to it, they usually get a pretty good result. And that, you know, people that lose a lot of weight or feel better, they're like, yes, they are now married to that approach. And no matter what has happening to them, even if the wheels start falling off, they try to adjust a little bit, but they're still like, this is the way. And so it takes another try or to, you know, people like Paul Saladino, who's all of a sudden decided, well, what happens if I add these carbohydrates in? Oh, my God, actually, my health has improved. And it, it takes us to get through our own biases and our own religious beliefs on these thought processes that will actually make us grow. And so, and that's why I always liked Ray's approach because he wasn't like saying, this is the way, these are the foods that you can only eat. He would give context. And sometimes when people listen to him, because in one interview, he would be like, well, that food isn't great. And he would say it. And in another one, he'd be like, no, it's really good for this. And so it'd be like, is it good or is it bad? I've heard Ray say it's good and bad. I'm like, we need to stop actually putting things in good and bad categories. It's, it's, it could be the dose makes the poison. And so first, you can have moderate amounts, probably, of anything and be totally fine if you're in a healthy state, you know? And that way, we also stop becoming so obsessed around our food and start thinking. And, you know, and I know this is prevalent too, is people get so wrapped up in these these diets, they fear food so much that that becomes such a stress on their system that now they can't, they really can't digest anything because every time you stress their system, now their digestive system shuts down. And now every food becomes a problem for them. And so we don't want that either. We don't want to create all this madness around here that makes you think you can't eat anything, or if you're out somewhere and you're like, oh my God, I, you know, I just can't have any of this food. And, you know, and, and then your blood sugar is going to drop, then you're going to feel any worse. So that's not a good answer either. So they're trying to create a different balance and trying to understand that, look, you're going to do the best you can in every situation with an understanding of maybe what your cells need and how you can improve that and improve your health. Certainly, if someone's really sick, yeah, there's probably going to be more steps. But also, that individual can't handle a lot in their current situation. So they've got to move through this process on a little bit slower and figuring out what can you manage right now? Get to the next step. And when you have a little bit more bandwidth, then we add a little bit more. But if I just gave you 50 things and say, okay, now this is the diet you have to eat, you just usually can't even manage that or do it. You just won't do it. So a lot of it, I think, is finding that path for them to, to what they can handle. And also education on, this isn't just about the food. This is about understanding your cells, how they actually convert your food into energy, what things can actually block that process from happening, and what we can do right now to kind of facilitate some level of improved energy production. Because when we produce more energy, we'll have more for your systems to function. And when you have better function, then you're going to be able to do more. And it just kind of keeps working in that direction. You know, there's people that come out there and just go, look, you just got to strength train, you got to do all these things. This is how you're going to improve your health. I'm like, yeah, some people, if they lift or do a bodyweight squat, it crushes them to the ground. And that, so telling them that's the way is obviously going to be really frustrating, and they're going to feel like there's nothing I can do. And so I personally like to go into, go where, where can we handle right now? What, what step do we need to take? Where do we need to go? Where you are doesn't mean your biology or your physiology is different than the other person, but it, in a sense, in a healthy state. But in the state it's in right now, yes, it's not doing what we want it to do. So we've got to figure out how to get out of that state first.

Ah, so important. So needed in, in this space. You know, I think so much of our conversation is very restrictive and fear-based, instead of additive and looking at what we can handle right now. Like you said, less importance on good and bad. And yes, and no. And it's kind of like, the answer is always, well, yes, no, it depends. Maybe the dose, where you're at. It's so, it's, it's hard, you know, because it doesn't do as well on social media because it's complex and it takes time to iron out nuance and all of that stuff. But I think we are left with a lot of, uh, dietary and cultural hangovers, that's for sure. And some, some hard to die myths. And I think a lot of people in this space, and the people that you've worked with, coming from paleo, keto, so carnivore, animal-based, there's still a, a good dose of healthy fear around carbohydrates. I had to kind of like, wean myself back on them because I, I bought into it. You know, carbs make you fat, carbs drive up insulin, insulin drives up fat storage, limit all carbohydrates, that's the key to health and longevity. And now I, you know, I've changed my mind. And I'm, and I'm happy about that. And I'm trying to help other people change their mind too. Um, and I think that's coming back to this energy piece that you said, like the availability of energy, the ability to produce and use that energy. So how would you help people understand that are still a little, little bit cloudy on that hangover of like, you know, no carbs are bad, no, all sugar's bad? Because I know that this stance is that, you know, not all carbohydrates are equal. And, and even, you said, you know, white sugar isn't even the white devil that you've been convinced that it is. So how do you help people just re-evaluate their relationship to sugar and carbohydrates in general?

That is such a good question. And, and I think when you, you look at how carbs are metabolized, and then we do compare them to how fats are metabolized, we do know that over time, when we put the time factor in there, and that, and that is important, because obviously, we know that fats contain more energy than a carbohydrate does, if we just look at weight. But when we actually look at time, we know that through time, that carbohydrates will move through the system or through the mitochondria and through the Krebs cycle, through the electron transfer chain quicker than fats will. And so over time, carbs will produce more ATP over time in an effective system that has all the resources, meaning it has all the nutrients. I like to refer those as like your little workers. I always give people the analogy as like, if you had a conveyor belt, and you had little fat molecules at the start, or carbohydrate molecules at the start, then you have along your conveyor belt, you have these workers there, then they're changing, basically, the molecules of that initial starting, um, fat or carbs. And those workers are usually the co-enzymes that are helping it. And those are facilitated by vitamins and nutrients, or even proteins. Then as they move through, we, we change it. And if we have all the workers, then we can move through this system really quickly. And at the end result, we produce more energy. Now, fat will just naturally go slower because that, that's how it's moving through the system. And carbs will just move a little bit faster. Carbs will also need additional nutrients. Maybe they need more B1, maybe they need. But so if there's not enough B1 there, and you have a lot of carbohydrates, maybe that system is going to get more backed up. So there are going to be inhibiting factors that could happen when you have certain, you know, carbs versus fat. But in a system that has all the right nutrients, it has enough oxygen, it has enough thyroid, then carbs will be the nutrient that will go through faster, producing more ATP over time. The other thing that it will do is it does facilitate 50% more carbon, carbon dioxide as it goes through the process. So we, we now know that carbon dioxide is super important for oxygenating of the tissue. If you don't produce enough, then the entire final step of the electron transport chain, which is the oxygen coming in to get the final electron, is either hindered or it's backed up. And again, that is another thing that's going to back up our system and make us produce energy slower over time. So oxygenating, getting oxygen into the tissue is really important. The molecule that does that is carbon dioxide. So again, you have more of that being produced with carbohydrate metabolism over fat metabolism. So that is an important component here too. And so, you know, we also look at your body in general. Look, your nervous system runs on carbs. It, it runs on carbs because your nervous system needs quick energy. It needs the energy source that's coming in much faster. And so that's why your brain runs on carbs, that's why the nervous system runs carbs. And again, your red blood cells can only use carbohydrates as well, or glucose as fuel. So because they are basically running off anaerobic respiration, so they don't have mitochondria. I think what did I just read? You have like 20 trillion red blood cells. You know, and that's the only fuel source. So that's really important because you cannot transport your oxygen without these red blood cells and hemoglobin and so forth. And so carbohydrates are essential for that, right? You can't use fat as that fuel, can't use ketones as that fuel. So we are going to always need these carbohydrate sources. It's just that over time and under stress, our body has more blocks that inhibit that entire process. And that's when, again, going back to our conveyor belt analogy, the conveyor belt gets backed up and it moves slower. And so you keep trying to put carbohydrates in there, but it's backed up. It's not, you know, whatever the reasoning is. So that's when you start to see that the, the carbs can't get into the cell because it's backed up. They stay in the blood, and we start seeing things like high blood sugar. And certainly having high blood sugar is not a good thing. But is it the sugar that's inherently causing it? Or is there something going on with the cell that, or an energy block that's inhibiting it from getting into the system? I mean, getting into the cell? And that's creating the problem. So just removing the sugar, yes, it looks better. It makes your insulin improve, you, you'll lose weight, all those things are going to happen. But the moment somebody that has that problem and hasn't fixed it, introduces carbohydrates again, and immediately gets high blood sugar, we know like, well, now your system's not fixed. You've made an alteration that's making it function that's fine. But over time, your body still prefers carbs. So you're going to start seeing some adverse responses. And usually, you'll start seeing low testosterone, low hormone function, low thyroid, um, they start to not sleep as well. You know, there can be a variety of different things that can start to happen for that individual. And at that point in time, you know, that's when they could be three, four, five, eight, nine years. I think Shawn Baker, I don't know how long he's been doing this. I think he's starting to see that he might need to change. I know he's tried some adding some carbohydrates at times, but, you know, I kind of will see. But, you know, we don't have any long-living cultures or really a lot of people to kind of assess that they're doing these diets to well into their 80s and 90s and doing great. We don't have a lot of people to kind of go, yep, that's a good path. Look at all these people that are doing really well on this kind of diet.

Yeah, it's fascinating in a way. I'm, I'm kind of grateful for all of these citizen scientists just doing their own thing because we're getting to watch the grand science experiment play it out. And I guess we'll get in closer to the truth in some kind of way. And we'll, we'll see how it all unfolds. But yeah, there's a lot of stories of people like you just said, they, they start, um, they go keto or carnivore, they feel amazing. And then at some point, something happens. You know, they add foods back in, they usually get back to that baseline level of health. But you mentioned in that a few times, the word stress. And that, you know, sometimes it's not the sugar that's the issue, it's the inability for the body to metabolize it and use it effectively because of stress. Like, what are some of the big problems that are creating this stress at a cellular level or at a holistic level? What's driving all of this stress? And what are the big needle movers that can help fix it?

Yeah, so as far as like things that might inhibit it, so I, I first define stress as anytime the demands on the body are more than the body can create energy to keep up with those demands healthfully. Right? And when I say healthfully, that's using like food, carbs, or fats. And again, and I don't want to sit here and tell you that fats are a bad energy source. They are, they are a fine energy source. You can still use them, and we do prefer to use them in rest. Anytime you're resting or sleeping or laying around or not doing a ton, fat is a fine fuel. Your, your muscles, your heart, they all prefer to use that fuel because it is a slower release, and that's totally fine. Um, under stress or in activity, or when we're doing more, we will prefer to utilize carbohydrates. If we force our body to continue to use fats or even go into ketones, and again, and ketones aren't a bad fuel, in fact, they're fine. But we would still be pushing ourselves to use more fat as fuel at that point in time. And when we do that, it will come at a level of adaptation. And doing that by using more fat as fuel, you are pushing the system to a certain stress response. And so we're like, one foot into stress already. So when that individual has more stress, they're already, already there on the cusp. And that's when you start to find with these, you know, people are doing keto or these, the wheels start falling off when they start to go and have a lot more stress in their life. Like their body just doesn't seem to manage it as well, or they gain a ton of weight, or, you know, or they just start eating a ton of carbohydrates and put on what, a bunch of weight. But that's when I think when the wheels start to fall off with them. Um, because like again, when the body's under stress, and the, the demands are higher than what your body can produce healthfully, your body will try to make up that. And it will go into a stress response. And again, a stress response is, is happens whether it's physical, mental, emotional, it doesn't matter. It's all the same thing. Meaning your body will have the exact same biological response, regardless of where the stress is coming from. If you define stress as anytime the demands are higher than what the body can produce energy for with food and nutrients and so forth. So with that stress response, you are going to now tap into, and use you as the fuel source, right? So that could be your fat, muscle tissue, bone, whatever. We're going to go into your reserves to keep up with the demand. You are not a car. If you run out of fuel that's coming in, you don't just stop and nothing happens. Your body has backup systems in place so it can make sure that you keep going. And so those systems come from your reserves. And again, not bad to go into reserves. You do it throughout the day. Um, you just want to don't want to live in that constant state. And so there's always that fine line. And you probably can live in it more when you're younger, and you can do more stuff and do more damage and, and your body can recover and manage this better. As you get older, you become less resilient to these stress responses, or we stay in them longer because we can't get out of them. The body is actually just used, learns to function in those spaces. But there, that comes with a continual breakdown of tissue. You know, for for people, it can, like, you know, bone breakdown, osteopenia, osteoporosis, any other degenerative diseases, diabetes, cancer, whatever. Your body is learning to try to adapt to you being in that response too long. So it's gone to make all these metabolic adaptations to keep up with those demands. You know, ideally. And then what we see with people is normally they just start feeling super tired and fatigued. And it's because the body has adapted to that state. When you, you're in that stress state for a long time, the healthy way to produce energy gets suppressed. The one that's basically being run on thyroid hormone. Thyroid hormone drops, maybe you go into a hypothyroid state. Maybe you become a poor, uh, en or oxy, you don't have enough oxygen, or you don't have enough carbon dioxide, so you can't get the oxygen in tissue. That's going to inhibit it. Maybe your food, maybe you're not digesting your food as well, because what we also know is when your body's under a lot of chronic stress, digestion just shuts down, right? It, it, the nerve response under stress is to slow down digestion. So now maybe you're not digesting or absorbing your food as well. Maybe the enzymes aren't being produced, maybe your hydrochloric acid is decreasing. Um, so now even though you might be eating good food, we're not getting the nutrients. We can't extract them any longer. And everything's moving slower. So all these things start compounding on your system. And that's when you continue get on this loop of not producing enough energy effectively, still needing it because you're pushing the system, going to a stress response. The stress response will try to produce more energy, but the adaptation to that is to slow down all internal functions. Digestion slows even more, right? You just see it happening. And it just continues until you get out of the loop. And so it's figuring out where in that, right? It, where can you get out of it? Um, because obviously digestive problems are going to occur. And then another thing that becomes a block is the bacterial toxins that your body will start to produce or or maybe even release. So under stress, or when your digestion starts to slow down, you're not going to be able to digest your food as well. Larger particles are going to go through into the small intestine. They tend to feed the bacteria that's in the colon. They might come up through into the small intestine. Some people refer to that as SIBO. Um, then when you become stressed too, the gut becomes more permeable, so more leaky. So these internal toxins or endotoxins can leak into the blood system. They can go into the cell. They can inhibit cellular respiration. And we know that's true because we see people that have inabilities to produce energy effectively, like a diabetic or people with cancer, have higher levels of endotoxin in their blood. And of course, the extreme measure of that is when someone becomes septic. Um, and that's a high amount of toxins are going into their system. And, you know, that can kill somebody. And basically, what it's doing is these poisons are just going into the cell and stopping respiration. And look, we die because we stop producing energy, right? Oxygen is needed to facilitate the continual production of energy. That's why we breathe. And so it's all about energy production. And if anything is inhibiting that, whether it's stress, the endotoxins, like a nutrient lack, lack of oxygen, um, there's other things like the polyunsaturated fats, excess of iron in the tissue can inhibit that process. There's numerous factors that can inhibit that entire process. And it's trying to unwind those to figure out where is it in that individual? What do we need to do to try to start correcting that? And what can, and then go from there. And a lot of times it's more than one. A lot of times it's a multitude of things that are happening with them. But, you know, that's why it's, that's why in my opinion, it makes sense to go, well, let's take the burden off someone's digestive system. That's huge, right? Let's make the food easier for them to digest, not harder, right? Because we already know the digestive system is under stress. There isn't enough energy going to that to facilitate good motility and good, uh, breaking down of food. Don't give it foods that are really hard. Make it easier. So, you know, that's why, uh, lower fiber foods are recommended. I think that's why people do so well in carnivore because they don't have to work and there's not all these irritants feeding bacteria when you, when you remove those foods. So that's always a good place to start with anybody. But you don't want to under-energize them. If you give them no carbohydrates, and now we know we have to put them in a slight stress response because now, if you're a carnivore, we're going to be using your protein as fuel. We're going to be breaking that down, right? If you're keto, well, then we can put you into a state of ketosis and use ketones and the fat, still producing some level of glucose. But ultimately, yeah, the carnivore is a, is a fairly stressful diet. Um, and again, it can work for so many things, but long term, it's going to start creating some other responses. And it's bringing back up to Shawn Baker. And I, and I think I think he's great because I think he's a great guy to watch in the space because even he will say, I don't know if this is the ideal diet. I think it's better than probably the standard American diet, but I don't know. You don't have it. And so it is interesting to watch because when he does things like really intense exercise, his blood sugar skyrockets, wild, like 200, 250, diabetic range. Comes back down though. But it totally makes sense because what does the body want in these stress intense states? It wants glucose. And since he doesn't give him any glucose, as soon as his body starts producing it, the message is glucose, glucose, glucose. But because he's more fat-adapted, as soon as his blood sugar raises, there's nowhere to go. So it stays in his blood for quite some time until his body will finally allow him to use it. But that is, it seems very logical that would happen to an individual like himself, right? Is that an ideal state to be in? I don't think so, right? He's a pretty intense guy. I, I wouldn't think wanting to get your blood sugar up to 20, 250 would be an ideal situation. You know, obviously, he's doing it very temporarily, but it's still, wouldn't you want your, your body to be able to utilize that fuel quicker? Because that's obviously what it wants.

Yeah, it's that's so good. That was so good. I think exactly what you said about just because you can doesn't necessarily mean you should. I remember when the first time I heard somebody say like, well, actually sugar is non-essential because you could eat zero sugar for the rest of your life and you'd be totally fine because your body can make the sugar that it needs. And there's the argument right there. Because at first, you're like, oh, that's a really cool fact. Your body will gluconeogenesis and get that sugar. And then you're like, wait a minute, where's it getting it from? Oh, mostly muscle tissue. So I can either let my body do that, which seems to be extractive and potentially stressful and slower than just giving it what it wants, because it obviously wants it. And we know that it wants it because you mentioned the red blood cells and parts of the brain and things like that. So it's just really, really interesting to, you know, just because we can doesn't mean we should. And maybe we're going about it the hard way sometimes instead of just saying like, what's the most logical, seemingly easiest thing that minimizes stress across the board? And that's probably a good thing because life is plenty stressful as it is. And maybe we don't want to add onto that pile.

So you, you mentioned the, the kind of, I think you mentioned where your step one would be, if you got somebody that's in this kind of hyper-stress state, you mentioned, let's first look at digestibility, easy to digest food, so we can start ramping up energy. And although this could probably go in many different directions, what are a couple of the other very safe steps where people who feel like they're in this low energy state and want to start getting some vitality back? What are some broadly applicable safe bets for people to work on?

Well, it, that will obviously come from because the other component that I work with, and a lot of people are coming off these low carb diets, is they're super sensitive to carbohydrates when they come off. And so, and a lot of them more pre-diabetic or even diabetic when they went on those diets. And now, of course, they say, oh, carbohydrates are good. And then they add them, and then everything goes wackadoodle. And so I think you got to know where that your potential is there because there's a spectrum of how you're going to. And, and again, some level of, um, increases in blood sugar are going to happen, and that's quite normal. Um, and then they usually will kind of balance out over time. But if I was coming from a digestibility kind of start, if I was like, okay, we know that you are having a lot of GI distress right now. And so certainly removing things like the polyunsaturated fats would be key. Um, and then limiting nuts and seeds and, um, beans, or anything that I think that their body is going to have a much more challenging time to break down. And even I might even limit like red meat. Some of the, the muscle meats could be limited because I, I just know that their system is struggling and I want them to be able to get us the fuel into the system without having to work super hard. We've all heard of the thermic effect of food. We, we know that that's the amount of energy the body needs to break down that specific food. Protein is quite high. It's around 30%. So whatever amount of food you put in that's just protein, 30% of that is going to go to breaking down, absorbing that that food. Um, fat and carbs. Fat's like 5%. I think carbs are maybe around 10. And so, and if we give you carbs that probably have no fiber in it, they're even less. Now, we have to be careful that that individual isn't having really bad blood sugar responses because I love juice as a fuel source and simple carbohydrates. But for some people, liquid calories do not do well because they go in way too fast for them. So we have to kind of try them out. But I would say having like, maybe if you aren't doing a lot of carbs, then having maybe a small piece of fruit, maybe a tropical fruit with each of your meals could be a great place to start with some understanding of just removing things that could possibly be giving, getting you irritated. And that doesn't necessarily mean you need to remove all fibrous foods. But you know, like I said, the nuts, the seeds, the beans would be big ones. And maybe the raw leafy vegetables. And again, I don't want to say that those are bad foods. There's a place for them. Um, but they are a food that has very low energy that takes a significant amount of energy to try to break down and extract the nutrients because they also do have anti-nutrients in there. Again, you can cook those foods and the anti-nutrients will will decrease. But if you're going to eat them in the raw state, then not only are you having a hard time breaking that food time food down, but there could be phytates or oxalic acid or something in there that's going to bind to the actual nutrients that you want, and you're not going to get them anyways. So when you're in a low energy state, you, we want to facilitate you to get as much nutrition and energy as possible. And so having those foods initially wouldn't be ideal. Does it mean you can never have them? No. I eat salads. I eat cooked vegetables. I have pretty much a variety of most things. I know where I feel best. And I also know that I always take stress into consideration because if my stress is higher, and I don't eat enough, I know my digestion is not going to work as well. That's just how it is, right? Even when you get to the A pinnacle of feeling better, that's not stagnant. You're not going to stay there if you don't continue to do what you've been doing. And not having an awareness because look, we're all, this is life. Life's going to throw you stress, and things are going to happen. There's times you're not going to be able to eat. There's things that are going to be totally throw you off your life. And if you can learn how to adapt to those changes and try to do the best you can in those situations, then you're going to do better through that stressful period. But you're, you're never going to avoid stress. It's, you don't want to, right? It's, that's not, that's not the goal here. It's to, to figure out how to mitigate it as best you can, to maybe take, if you're in a low energy state, to maybe remove additional stressors for the time being. But, but it's not to just avoid it. It's to try to figure out how can we build you up to the best we can in a, in a space that your body can handle so that you can be more resilient to when stress does occur. Because a lot of stress is good. You know, working out is good. We, we want to be able to do, do that. But if it's crushing you, well, we don't want to do. If it's crushing you, we want to pull it down a little bit. What can you do right now? And then build you up. And then when you, when you feel better, you'll be able to do better and do more.

That's a really cool perspective. I like that. And it's, it's making me think of it's making me think of coffee. Okay, so here's where my mind's going here, because I think of my wife, for example, who is a mom to two boys and, you know, is dealing with some of those early challenges. And it's just like, I'm going to have, I think I'm going to have to try and get some energy back. And then she has it, and she kind of burns out. It's like, very anxiety-provoking for her. But I know in the Ray Pete community, it's, uh, we were talking off air, I was telling you I was chugging my raw milk and caffeine. And I personally tolerate it very well and feel really good about it. I'm trying to square this circle between like, like you said, not all stress is bad, but in a stress system, is adding something like coffee that can induce a stress like state, a cortisol response, is that a good or bad thing? What's the Ray Pete view on coffee? The benefits? Why should we have it with sugar? All of that conversation is fascinating.

Yeah, it's a great question. Um, obviously, I love coffee too. I think coffee is a great, a great food, um, or I refer to it as like a supplement, whatever you want to call it. Um, it can work very thyroid promoting. And what that means is it improves how well your body takes up glucose. So it speeds things up. It's a thermogenic. And for somebody that's already stressed and is already having a hard time producing energy and is already in that stress cycle, that probably means there's not enough glucose coming into the system, or there's an energy block that's hindering it from getting into the, uh, to the cell. And so giving something that's trying to try to speed that up, and they can't, because either there's a nutrient deficiency or whatever else is going on, all it's going to do is exacerbate the problem because their body, the foundation isn't available, right? You're, you're speeding up the conveyor belt, but we don't have the workers there, so it's not going to work right. So that's why if someone hasn't been consuming coffee, and they're having energy issues, whether they maybe feel fatigued or wired, or whatever it is, those are very closely related. Then we have to work on that part first and go, well, look, we need to build you a better breakfast. We need to make sure that your body knows you have enough fuel sources coming in. Okay, we're giving you these foods, but you still don't feel energized from them, and you're gaining weight. Okay, then something's missing here. Whether there is there a GI problem? Are you having sleep problems? Are you, you know, is the foods that we're eating, there's not enough nutrition in them? We need to make sure that we're adding those in there because there's like, our workers aren't there, right? We, it's always asking additional questions like, if something that should be working isn't working, why? And then it again, it's all then experimentation. Okay, we're going to try. So I personally like to give people like four or five things to do. We're going to try those things and we're going to do them consistently because if we have 50 variables, I have no idea what is doing what with you, right? And I am personally am about trying to do the least to get the most result. And so if we don't have to do 20 things, then I don't want to do 20 things. Um, we might eventually, but it, I want to be able to do it in a pace that we actually know what's working for you. And so again, going back to coffee, coffee is a great thermogenic. It makes us utilize glucose faster. So it can make actually people become better energized if, if the resources are there. And that's why some people

can drink coffee right before they go to bed and it makes them sleep great because all it does is facilitate their metabolism, improving. They have enough fuel coming in, it puts them into a deep sleep. No problem for someone that's very sensitive, isn't maybe utilizing glucose as well, is running on, you know, just running, not eating enough breakfast, not eating enough food, not eating enough carbohydrates, and then they add coffee in, it probably just going to make them feel even worse.

And so, and you know, coming from what you said, sometimes the answer is, is well, were they black coffee? Okay, well, can we add some calories to that? And will that be the thing that helps? Right, sometimes just adding some milk and sugar, um, and that does the trick. Like, oh, that feels way better. Sometimes it's they need to eat first and then do the coffee, or maybe just eat and drink the coffee with their food, and that seems to work for them. Some can't do it at all. It's they're too, their system is too sensitive, their body is too on edge, and so those things just don't, can't be used right now. Could they maybe in six months? Sure, definitely seen people who couldn't do any coffee at all, now can drink a couple cups a day, totally fine, no problem, right?

So we don't want to get into the camps where you go on social media, coffee raises cortisol, it's going to kill you, right? Horrible thing, blah, blah, blah. And then there are others like, six cups of coffee has been shown to decrease thyroid. I mean, to drink thyroid cancers. And both can be true depending on the context. And so, um, you just kind of have coffee can be very beneficial for individuals, and it does have so many health-promoting effects to it. But it also, in the wrong individual, can make them feel worse. And so we, we have to just understand where we're coming from and not also be married to the fact that just because I can't do coffee now, doesn't mean if I don't improve other things, I can't do it later. Because you, you could. And if, because there is so many health-promoting effects, we want to get you to that place, right?

You know, the same thing with something like dairy. They're like, I don't tolerate at all. I'm like, well, did you ever tolerate dairy? Well, yes, you know, when I was 10, and then I didn't drink it for 10 years, and now I don't tolerate it. I go, okay, well, there could be reasons for that. And yes, your body will probably not tolerate it after 10 years of getting it up. But there's ways for us to get it back into your life, slow and steady. Um, try different brands, you know, go and, and then over time, then that person can adapt to utilizing dairy again. And again, we want someone to be able to utilize dairy. And solely because when someone does tolerate dairy well, it's easy to digest, it's filled with nutrition, there's no antinutrients in it, it's got carbs, it's got fat, it's got protein, it's an easy food to consume, it's high in calcium. So there's so many good benefits for that food. But if you aren't tolerating it, no, we don't want you to just push milk in you and feel crappy the whole time. That there's no reason to do that. We don't want to do that. We, we want to make sure that other things are fixed first, and then we may add it at a later date. There's that new one again, huh? Look at that. It's, um, I know I like how you framed coffee caffeine as as a supplement. It sounds to me like it's a, it's like an amplifier. And if you're going to amplify a high energy abundant state, then it's just additive, and it's going to give you a lot of those perceived benefits. And the benefits that the reason that I drink, you know, two to three cups a day and love it and feel great on it and have no problems. But if I was amplifying, you know, chronic burnout and fight or flight, it's probably not going to work with my system very well.

And you set me perfectly for my next question because I really did want to talk to you about Dairy. Um, you mentioned, you know, a lot of people have dairy intolerance these days. So I'm curious, you know, is it possible to overcome dairy intolerance? And as you know, in this space, the conversation around milk and raw milk in particular, and the arguments between pasteurization and raw and things like that. I'm curious to get your take on all of that. So can somebody, it sounds like you believe somebody can overcome dairy intolerance? And what are some of the pathways there? And is it okay to drink pasteurized or is pasteurized the devil? And is it raw or law? And what, what's your think though? Yeah, all good questions. Um, so yes, certainly some people can get over intolerance. Some people have a true intolerance and just cannot digest it. I have found probably of the last 14 years of people who said they couldn't tolerate dairy, probably 80 to 90% of them, I can get to tolerate dairy. So in my own personal study of people, I find that most can get to a place where dairy is fine. Um, if we go back to, and again, there probably is a lot of dairy intolerance these days, solely because there's a lot of chronic stress these days. You know, our stress is different than obviously a hundred years ago. You know, people are like, but we didn't have enough food and there was no light. And I'm like, yes, but we now in today's world are just inundated with stress, at least for our nervous system, 24/7, right? We're on computers, we're in our phones, we're, we're on social media, we're just being pinged, you know, especially these young people, it just constantly all the time. And not even being aware of this constant stressor that's going on in our life. And so again, when we look at our physiology, when we are activating that sympathetic state of our system, fight or flight, again, it can come from social media. The signals that go to your digestive system are slowed down, just don't work as well. That's what happens. And so there's going to be less fuel being going and being utilized by our digestive system. Right now, our digestive system is filled with muscles that basically help with peristalsis. And so they all need energy for that to activate properly. And so if we aren't giving that, right, your body is like, well, we don't have enough energy coming in or being produced. Yes, digestion is important, but, you know, we can have really shitty digestion and still live. So we're going to actually utilize the fuel you have for your nervous system and for your heart and other way more important things to keep you alive. And so, you know, we might see lower stomach acid, we might just see a lower production of enzymes, we might just see slower peristalsis or low less activation. And so that would that environment would create a place where we wouldn't tolerate dairy as well. And so it makes sense in today's world where we are feel like we're more stressed or more chronic stress, why there are more intolerances going on.

And so for some individuals, it's first identifying, all right, look, you are in this chronic state. How can we right now, because you're not handling it right, because we can see you have all these symptoms, let's take some of these things off. Can we like not do social media? Can we not do whatever, whatever? I think I can take load off their system. And then let's give you foods that are going to be easier to digest. Maybe not dairy right now, but other food sources that can help energize our system and get your digestive system functioning better. And then maybe we'll start adding an ounce of milk. And raw milk is a good one to add. It's because it does have the lactase enzyme in there. So for some people, that makes it easier to digest for them. Um, some people do not do well on raw milk at all. So I, I will use whatever works for them. I will use pasteurized, I will use lactose-free, I will use goat milk. I don't care. I still think there's some benefit to any of those. And certainly the argument is, well, it's been pasteurized and homogenized and has additives in it. I'm like, all those are true. Um, I still think in the right individual, if there's still more benefits than negative. Um, if somebody can tolerate and has raw milk available to them, not everybody does. So some states you cannot buy it. And I don't certainly wouldn't want that individual think, well, I'm never gonna get my health back now, I can't get raw milk. Like, well, you know, I, I personally do drink some raw milk, but I primarily just drink, uh, Organic Valley 1% milk. Um, because I drink a good amount of milk. And so if I drink all this raw milk, to me, it's just too much fat. And for other people, it can be too much fat. And that's just another variable that for some people, we actually need to lower their fat so that they can utilize carbohydrates better. So, you know, it's, can we, could we actually get skim? It's hard to get skim raw. Some people can kind of, you know, strain it themselves. But I just want them to be in a better energy state. And however I can get them there, if there I have to give them a food, it isn't as supreme, I will do it. Um, and with the understanding of, yeah, if we can get you back to there, great. If we, if we don't get you that milk, ever, is it going to be the detriment of your health? I don't think so. Um, you know, so I'm sure other people have that argument with me. But from my own personal perspective, when it coming from this lens, I find people have a lot of benefit from using just pasteurized milk, and it's totally fine because there's still benefit. Um, so ideally, I just want them to get to any milk. And some could be goat. Goat also is going to be easier to. I find raw and goat milk to probably be the easiest to digest for most individuals that have a lactose intolerance issue. Um, but like I said, those sometimes don't work. And I put them on a lactose-free. And again, it's about trial and error and not putting limitations on what your beliefs are. Because if I just was very dogmatic and go, only raw milk and everything else sucks, and then someone doesn't tolerate it, like, well, too bad. You know, I don't have another answer for them. And I want to be able to give them another answer. So here's another try, try this instead. And a lot of people like, I do totally fine with this. I'm like, great, that's what we use right now.

Yeah, I think it's really important too, to just avoid like health elitism in a sense that keeps people out of the game. Because if they can't do it, you know, as per their favorite influencer, then, you know, well, I can't get it or I can't afford it. So I guess I'll throw the baby out with the bathwater and I'll just keep doing what I've always done. You got to meet people where they're at. And, you know, I think you're right, if it, even though it's not perfect, they, they're still net positives and they're worth pursuing. So I, that's a pretty refreshing take for sure. Um, something we, we've spoke about a lot is this, this gut piece and how it, a lot of it starts there in digestion. Something that became really prevalent that I believe was born out of, out of Ray Pete's teachings and philosophy is the carrot salad. Talk to me about what the raw carrot salad is, why am I seeing this everywhere? Yeah, it, I love the raw carrot salad. So Ray in a lot of teachings, and there's not a lot of research. I think I found maybe one or two studies on the carrot specifically. And I believe it was shown it was helping to lower cholesterol. Um, I've never seen the study on it that actually show that it was reducing estrogen in somebody. Um, but it would make sense that it would help with that because it does become a binder. But ult, and only from my, my own studies from clients per se, and my own observations from it. So the carrot salad is basically, it's just a raw single carrot, be a medium-sized carrot that is peeled or shredded however you want to do it. And then you add coconut oil or olive oil and some vinegar. And the purpose is because, or the thought is, because the carrot grows underground, that it has certain properties in it that are antibacterial, antimicrobial, antifungal because of how it's grown. It doesn't contain a lot of antinutrients because it doesn't really have to protect itself because it's underground and not above the ground, right? Other leaves have certain antinutrients in them, like spinach and kale and all that, because they don't want the animals to eat them. And so they have specific antinutrients and that might create them digestive distress if they decide to eat them. So the carrot doesn't have those. And so eating it raw is quite safe. And it has a lot of other properties along with things like coconut oil and vinegar that also have antibacterial properties, antimicrobial properties. So having these fibrous, this fibrous food and then then kind of saturating it with vinegar and coconut oil, the thought is that that the fibers will bring those other bacterial or antibacterial substances deep into the intestinal lining and give it a cleaning effect because it's kind of getting the bacteria per se out of the small intestine. Um, do we actually have a study showing that specifically? Not that I have seen. What I can tell you is people that do this regularly seem to have way better health, way better stools, um, less headaches for women because it is supposedly helps reduce or remove kind of the detoxified estrogens. I've seen their periods improve. I've seen their, you know, they they have less PMS just simply by adding this one dietary change in there. I don't see the same effects with with just eating like bran cereal or a bunch of broccoli. Um, I, I just don't see that same because those foods again are have different components in them and I think they become a little bit harder to digest on the system. The carrot has insoluble fibers in there. So for the most part, you'll see that return in your stool. But like I said, I, I, I just find with my own 12 years of using it that it has massive improvements in people's health when they do it regularly. So it's something really easy. It's something that if you do on, I tell people I go, just think of it like brushing your teeth. You know, you wouldn't go to bed without brushing your teeth. You know, go don't go out with your day without eating a carrot salad. And again, there are a fraction of people that say, I really don't notice the difference. Okay, that's fine. Um, there's also people that go, can I just eat the carrot? And you, can I don't think you get as much benefit? I personally did that for a while. I found that when I did the casual carrot salad repeatedly, I got way better benefit. My stool is always way better. And so for those reasons, that's why I do it.

Very cool. I really don't think we should discount like the anecdotal data too. When I speak to people like yourself, there have, I know we've probably helped hundreds if not thousands of women at this point, um, by extension of your teachings and books and things like that. And you, you hear this enough, you, you have to say, all right, well, there, there's something here. And it might not be backed out in a randomized control trial and tick the boxes of our science gods, but that's that's applicable. You know, and I think that's that's really important. Okay, so I really was curious about a couple of other things that have emerged out of the, the Ray scene and people seem to talk about them a lot. And, um, we're getting more into kind of like the supplement realm here now. But I hear a lot about vitamin E. And my understanding is it can really help with the oxidative stress of PUFA, uh, can really potentially help in aiding fat loss or aiding some of the potential release of PUFAs when we're losing fat and things like that. I'm curious as to your take on vitamin E supporting overall health or aiding with fat loss or protecting against. What's the story behind vitamin E? So I'll start off by saying that I am not a massive supplement person. Um, I will be like a 95% food person. And I just like, so I sometimes will steer people away of some of these just because, A, I don't know what effect is having on it. Same thing with vitamin E, you can obviously take too much vitamin E. Um, and vitamin E has some other positive effects. Like I know it can help with blood sugar, I know it can help as an aromatase inhibitor. It can definitely, the thought is because it's an antioxidant, if you're releasing polyunsaturated fats into the blood when you're doing weight loss, it's healthier for you and it's more protective from that process. Because, you know, that's the other thing. And when you listen to Ray's research, I mean, sometimes initially when I was listening to it, because he talks about, oh yeah, you to not release fat into the blood, right? He was always, oh, it's safer, don't get the fat into the blood, you know, do everything that's going to inhibit. Because it's when the fat gets into the blood is where the, that's where the stress response is going to incur. But obviously, we're working with people that want to lose fat. And so we want to do it in a healthy way and safe way. And certainly the healthiest, safest way is first to get them to produce energy better and to get the metabolic rate up higher and get the blocks out of the way. And so that would always be the initial stages that I would go through. And then yes, when they become to a place where they want to start losing weight, adding in some vitamin E, whether I, I'm a lower dose person, probably like a 100 IU during that process to help facilitate some level of protection if they're starting to release the polyunsaturated fats into the blood. Because whether you're eating them, if you're not eating them, and a lot of people said, I haven't been eating PUFAs for forever. I'm like, yes, but you're, I'm sure your fat cells are stored. They're stored in there. So when you do lose weight, it's almost like you're eating them because just being released into the blood, and then they have to be used by the cells to produce energy, right? They just don't magically go away. They still, the way you get rid of fat is you use it as energy. And so then when you then now use it, making forcing your your cells to utilize PUFA as, um, energy, there is probably more reaction of oxygen species going on. There's there's more stress in the system. So yes, I adding some level of antioxidant in there, the thought is it can be more protective. So that's when I would use it. Um, and again, that would be a, when you're ready for fat loss time period. I also do use it if people go out to eat and they're eating a ton of, you know, we don't know what you're eating. Maybe you're having more polyunsaturated fats in your diet. Okay, maybe taking some additional vitamin E would be benefit to you at this point in time. Um, so, and the reason I say this is because people hear supplements and then before they do anything, they're like, I'm just going to get on those supplements because she says I'm about fat loss and protective, let me get that going. And so I, I, I always just want to add that caveat and going, look, there are stages that are more ideal. And again, I'm not telling anyone to do what do whatever you want because I think experimentation is great. This is how you learn. If you want to do it that way, maybe it works for you. Okay, great. Or you'll find it didn't do anything for me. And maybe it's because you have to improve the system first. And improving the system is a very nuanced way depending on you. And it is a little bit of experimentation. And it is little bit of trial and error. And, and I think because this space is so nuanced, and there isn't a, like for most other spaces, there like usually a definite, um, result fairly quickly. Meaning, okay, like I removed all these fibers and yeah, I feel better, way better. Or I eat low calorie and no, I lose weight, so I feel better. And this approach, there sometimes isn't that. If anything, they're like, yes, I feel like I have more energy. That certainly does happen. But it comes with maybe a little bit of weight gain or maybe some other things. So we have to kind of dance through the process so that we can get the best result without as many negative other things happening. But sometimes that does happen because we have to get through this kind of letting your cells try to use energy better. But, um, with that said, yes, vitamin E is great for those reasons and, and it can be protective certainly when somebody is either burning fat from their own stored fat or they are assuming it via food.

Yeah, I think that's a, a really solid take. And it echoes how I feel a lot. You know, we, we talk about whole soil supplements all the time. You know, get your organ meat, super nutrient dense. But we don't say just do that. We say these are the supplements that are additive to the big rocks, you know, the foundational pillars. And I do worry sometimes in an instant gratification culture that as soon as somebody thinks something is magical, they will jump right to that because it's much easier to take the pill than it is to re-engineer their entire lifestyle. Because truth is, getting healthy in a world isn't the easiest thing in the world, you know? So it's much easier if, oh, I can take vitamin A. And another one in the Pete community that everybody seems to talk about is aspirin. Why is everybody taking aspirin every day? I, I guess I'll just start taking aspirin too. And I'll drink loads of coffee and it'll all be fixed. And if I don't change the fundamental lifestyle behaviors, yeah, probably not. Yeah, yeah, totally. And I mean, and I get it because I've done all those things too. I mean, I certainly have gone down the supplement path and I've probably taken all the, the Pete, you know, because you do want to experiment. And I think it's to experiment, certainly when you have the foundation. You want to experiment and see like, okay, how's this one going to affect me? Um, and I, and I come from a space where I don't think anything really should be taken all the time. I think you should take it periodically, then maybe take breaks from it, see how your body responds without it so that you can just constantly get a gauge on how your body's actually reacting in an environment that isn't with certain supplements. Um, I think that you can probably get most of your, your supplements, food supplements from food. But yeah, there are certain times when you can't. And I think that you should then try to get something from a, just a regular old supplement. And when you can, right? I mean, aspirin is one of them. I love aspirin. I don't think everybody should take aspirin in their current state, but I think it is a very safe and effective tool to help support your health. Because again, it, it's an aromatase inhibitor. So that alone, it can decrease the amount of estrogen that your body is producing in the tissue. So there's that approach to it, right? There's it helps with blood sugar. We know that you can take a good amount of aspirin and help people that are diabetic or that have blood sugar issues. Um, so it inhibits free fatty acids. So, so it kind of inhibits, it can help inhibit the stress response and help you utilize glucose better. So for those reasons, it is a great supplement tool. But if you don't have the foundations and you just are starting to take a ton of aspirin, might not work for you, you know, or you might not get any response for it, or you just going to have thin your blood out, maybe that's not a good idea either. So we, we want to be cognizant. And when when people do talk about things to first, like I said, establish your foundation. And that was what Ray would always say, anytime he would ever talk about any sort, whether he talked about thyroid or progesterone or whatever, you still food was like, first. Yeah, you know, create that food first situation, and then utilize these other things that can help improve the system. And, you know, and how well it's producing energy, as long as you have the right resources.

Beautiful. Yeah, foundations first, definitely. So my last question for you, and maybe this is a really good one to kind of wrap it up and finish with. I'm curious, um, because we've spoke so much about food today and the importance of a foundation. So I actually want to jump off that for a second and just ask you, what's the best non-food related health advice you've ever received or the best non-food health related advice you give to clients? The best non-oh, there could be many. Um, certainly sun. Um, getting some sun, you know, whatever your body can tolerate and working from there. I, I, in my kind of energy production equation, I have sun in there. I think sun is needed. It works. And that's why most people feel better when they're in a sunny environment or they're in the summer environment because you have more sun and light. So I think that's an essential component. Certainly the other one would be, you know, creating a good sleep environment because we can tell you to produce as much energy as possible, but if you don't get sleep and rest and recover, y, it's that's going to be a massive stress on your system and things aren't going to function optimally. So sleep, our sleep and sun are are two components are super important. You know, the thing with sleep is, if they're in a low energy state, they usually don't sleep well. I mean, like I would love to sleep well, but so they kind of, they kind of work with each other. So, you know, it's like, what can we control with your sleep? Whether it's getting off of your computer, you know, and getting away from things. Um, I, and I know you asked me for one, but I'm going to give you one more. I'm gonna give you three. The other one is literally, control your controllables and everything else, let go. Because there's so much in this world right now that might be bothering everybody. But I'm like, if you ask the question, what can I control? Can I control that? And the answer is no, then let it go. If the answer is yes, and you need to ask yourself, what is it you can actually do that might facilitate some sort of change? Or are you willing to do those things? I constantly ask myself questions all day. I'm very in tune with if my body feels stressed, I'm like, what is that? What is that about? Why am I feeling that? And then something will come into my list like, oh, you saw that thing and that was bugging you. I'm like, okay, there's something I can do about that. Nope. Okay, then I'm gonna let that go. And then I go, because our thoughts can be incredibly stressful. And that is a stress that will last all day with you from the moment you wake up to the moment you go to bed. And if we let those just run wild, we are going to be in a pretty stressful state all the time. And it's hard to get out of that with even the greatest of diets. And if we can learn to control some of those and, and speak to ourselves better, or at least let go of the things that are making maybe making us a little bit crazy, um, we do a lot better. I know I do a lot better. And I know that when people I work with, when we go through those, they feel a lot more relaxed. And when we get them in that space, then everything's going to work better. So if you're in a constant tidal wave of thoughts and craziness and, you know, and you can't get out of it, then that's a place to start and kind of look and reflect upon and saying, you know, is this kind of serving me all these thoughts?

So good. So good. That's how you end a podcast, folks. That's powerful. Kate Daring, ladies and gentlemen. Kate, where can people go to learn more about what you do and keep up with you and follow and subscribe and buy and all of that stuff? They can go to my website, K daring.com, and they can find me on social media, K daring Fitness on Facebook and Instagram. Amazing. Thank you for sharing your wisdom and time with us today, Kate. Really appreciate it. This was fun. Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you. And you radical health seekers, we'll see you next week. Peace out. All right, friends, thanks for tuning in to another episode of Radical Health Radio. We got a fresh new podcast for you every Wednesday. If you enjoyed the show, consider liking, subscribing, reviewing, and rating us on your podcast platform. It helps us spread this message of radical health. We'll see you next week.