tory

You know, like a few hours. But yes, more or less that's exactly what took place.

Okay. Trying to see when that question was asked. I'm trying to see. I have a thought, but it's not a full thought on where I'm trying to go with it. I'm trying to like get however you guys formulated this vulnerability and how we can like capitalize on it if you will.

Like the mechanics behind it. I'm sorry, the mechanics behind it. The mechanics behind it, like how we got to that place.

Yes. Yes. Um, because I'm wondering, like, there's a number of things. So, like, it's great that it happened, right? That's always gonna be a win, but, um, I mean, you guys have had a number of heart-to-heart questions, and so I'm wondering what makes this one different? Um, how come it wasn't done before? What occurred for you guys to get there? I guess I have more questions than answers. Um, and it's not that you guys should have figured this out day one, like, no. And you guys gonna learn and get deeper on new levels as you guys continue your journey together, but at least as of now, I'm trying to see about that. And I don't know if you guys have the answer, so I guess this is more thoughts out loud.

I think the thing that shifted for me was, um, every time we do come off of an argument, right, um, there is a softness that is there with both of us because we kind of work through something and it's like we usually find out that one or both of us was tweaking. You know what I mean? And so there is a softness that takes over for a short time. So, within that softness, what usually happens is her or I will get a little prickly about something else. But because we're we just came off of a big argument, one of us will usually be like, you know what, I'm not going to argue with you right now. Like, I'll just let this one go. I'll just let this one slide. Right? But the difference happened. We had this softness. We watched, like I said, we watched a really good documentary on Netflix. It was the Hulk Hogan documentary, and she teared up when he was talking about his family and everything, and I came over and comforted her, and she said that really meant a lot to her. Um, and then we had this conversation Saturday night about how she sometimes feels like, you know, uh, it was the combination of things that day. She didn't have her ring on. She told me she didn't, um, always feel like it was a serious relationship. And then she said that, uh, you really do feel like a husband. And I told her how that like messed with me. And I go, you know, I only feel like you love me 50% of the time. But neither one of us blew up on each other on that on those big things. So that was different. Then we went to sleep, and I had a bad dream that she cheated on me, and I told her, and she goes, "Let's talk about it." And then we started talking about it, and there was no defensiveness. She completely goes, "Why do you feel that way?" And she was completely calm in a way that I'd never seen her be calm before. She didn't defend herself or anything. She just listened. And then I started to be able to like, I still would like to talk about that more, cuz I still am fearful of being cheated on. Um, but it, it went, it literally cut the anxiety down, and I felt so close to her after that conversation. And then I after that felt like, you know what, she could come to me with anything right now in this moment, and I don't think I would be mad at her. And it was just like I had never had that before. And so I think we had that initial buffer from getting in an argument. But then as we kind of dropped these big bombshells on each other that would normally make one of our hair stand up, uh, we just listened, and it wasn't reactive. So I don't really know what that was, whether it be the grace of God or, um,

Yeah, I don't really know how it did. I just know we just started being vulnerable with each other, and we had never gotten to that level because both of us can be very defensive, you know.

Well, I would say really, I guess let's ignore the all the questions I asked, and let's just focus on what we do now, which is you guys were able to have that type of moment. And I would strongly encourage you guys to reflect on that moment and again, how can you guys reproduce that? It's kind of interesting how we talk about something and then you guys have like a situation that occurs based off of what we talked about, if that makes sense. Because last week we had talked about you guys becoming vulnerable and, um, like who can outdo each other on like being kind and having patience and all those things. And, um, basically you guys basically was able to do that after you guys had the disagreement. And so I think what is beneficial is that you guys get to see literally what happens when you take charge in being kind, being soft, hearing your partner out, answering the question honestly. If you have questions, you know, share in it as well, and do you get what you guys got to experience. So I would say just side note, homework is like reflecting on that moment and again, how you guys can like reproduce that going forward, but again, at the beginning of you guys conversing.

And because I feel like a personal trainer, like, okay, I understand you guys have work and all the things, but you make time. So, you know, and it's really just making time mentally to like run through that in your mind. Um, not that you would think about it day and night, but just again, how can you be mindful of yourself as well as your partner? But any thoughts on those things?

Not really. I, I, I, I will say I think, uh, we wanted to talk a lot about fears. I know, so that way we can kind of work through some of these. So, I'll let you go first, babe, because, you know, I know that you probably have some that you want to talk about, and I've been talking a lot. So, I'll go after you. We can start with you if you want to do that.

Yeah, that's fine. Um, I'm trying to think of like how to organize my thoughts because I think like where I get tripped up, like I, you know, granted, I'm starting my period this week, so like I was a little bit emotionally heightened, like, you know, um, as I feel like I, I say this over and over again, like, um, throughout the sessions, but, uh, I, we were getting our marriage license on Friday, and, um, you know, saw all the couples, and I was like saying that how like, oh, this is so cute, and like, aren't you excited? And his like level was a little, and I think like looking for him to say like, "Yes, I'm married." You made a joke and just said something like, "You're a bear," which is like what we call each other. Like, it's still cute, but it's like not what I was looking for in that moment. And, um, I think that I probably could have let it go in retrospect from what we had talked about last week, but I was just trying to tell him like, hey, like, maybe we can learn how to like communicate better in like languages that each of us would understand. And like, you know, like saying it in this type of way is just something I really need to hear because it's something that we don't normally do. Like, if it were any other day, like, fine, but it's like we're getting our marriage license, which like we're only going to do one time, like, and I just want to make sure that you're you're stoked because then that feeds into my fear of like him not being into it in the same way that I am. So, um, I think that's kind of like where everything started. And then I was trying to bring it back and like, okay, I'm going to like, I can pick you up food or whatever you need, and like I knew he was going to come over later, and I'm trying to make sure I'm there to help him and everything. And I was telling him that my best friend, um, uh, just found out she's pregnant, and we were talking about that. But then, um, when when I asked the question in the way that we were taught to ask, it felt like, like he gets upset sometimes, and it's kind of like, there's no stopping that, no matter like how I were to like react, like I can't do it good enough to not elicit that kind of negative reaction. So I don't know what the fear is associated with that, but just like maybe more so of like a frustration, like I just like tend to kind of give up because there's like, it's not in my control anymore. It's like, if the other person is going to not work with me, then like, what do I do? Like, do I walk away? Like, how do I like, deescalate? And then, um, yeah, just sometimes I feel like he's throwing gasoline on the fire by being like, "Are we just going to argue?" And I'm like, "I, I wasn't arguing, like, I was just asking a question." So, um, yeah, I don't know if that's a fear, but that's like what's at the forefront of my mind.

Like dealing with stress, which I feel like I talked about, like how like dealing with stress long term and, and, uh, like if he's able to be self-reflective enough to be able to like understand like his own behavior or monitor or like communicate, like be emotionally, like, um, have the emotional wherewithal to like communicate, um, you know, like, "Hey, I'm not in a to be able to have that conversation right now, but can we like, can we table it or something like that?"

You've also mentioned to the fear of like not feeling safe to, um, express yourself and stuff. I don't want to put like that exact wording, but something to the, you haven't felt safe to bring certain things up. And then you also mentioned you're fearful about how maybe I handle stress because you're like, "What about whenever we have a kid?" And things like that. So those are other fears that you've mentioned as well, too. So not sure if you want to talk about those and bring those in the thing if that's connected, but,

Yeah, that's all I had to say, Trey.

Okay. Um, so the first fear and concern is when you guys had that conversation at the courthouse, kind of like, if I understand correctly, basically you wanted him to meet you where you are at with the emotion, but it sounds like he kind of took like a light humor route instead.

Yeah.

Okay. And so you are concerned, like, will he be able to be serious at the right time, or like, how does he really feel, type of thing?

It was more so concerned about how he really feels. Like, is he going the light route because he's like, not able to tap into that, or like, does, is he hiding, like, a deeper feeling or something else, like that?

Okay. So, one, I would say, if I think that if you guys haven't wrote down your guys' fears and concerns in regards to what has happened recently, it would be good to, um, because I don't think that we're going to finish it all today. Um, cuz I do want to make sure that we are massaging in there each of these concerns that you guys have. I don't want it to be, okay, well, next time, just sounding nicer, you know, meet her where she's at and have a good day. Like, it's important to really massage in there, um, what was the situation, what behaviors took place, where were both of your guys' thought process was, and how can we formulate to getting on the same page. So, in regards to this situation, you were expecting him to, so you say, meet him where you are at with that emotionally. What would, would that have looked like?

Um, him saying, uh, something along the lines of, "I'm really excited to, you know, for you to be my wife," or "to marry you," or "to be your husband," or any of, yeah, any derivative of that.

Okay. And for you, Matt, what made you take the approach that you did take?

I think that what I told her was, I have been so go with little to no downtime. I am excited about the wedding, but a lot of times I don't have time to bask about any kind of accomplishments or things because I was coming right from, um, teaching school to the thing, and then I got to go work on the TPA, and then like, I'm just always like moving. So I told her that I'll be excited once I have all this stuff done. So I think a lot of times the moment of something that's good doesn't always sit in. Like, there was something to do with comedy or, uh, something. We had a big milestone on our podcast, and she goes, "This was some weeks ago," but she goes, "Aren't you excited?" I go, "Yeah." She goes, "You don't sound excited at all." And I was, but it's like the weight of that moment because I have to keep moving and doing something else does not really land. And so, I don't really, um, know how to explain it other than that. But that was like, it's just like the weight of the moment didn't really hit me, if that makes sense. Um, even though I am excited, it's like that's why sometimes I get grumpy in the moment when I sit down and calm down because I, I don't really have time to, um, sit with my feelings in these last couple years, and it's been, it's been very difficult.

Okay. And what are your thoughts about what he had shared?

Um, I think that, um, I accept that. Uh, I understand that, well, I guess that he's at least trying to say that he doesn't take a lot of time to feel emotions when he's, um, under a lot of stress, and that he just tends to, um, get stuff done, uh, as opposed to like, um, experiencing emotion. But like, when the time comes to have the wedding, that he will feel the emotions. So I'm, um, trying to trust that, um, you know, like, for the time being, that, like, it's okay that we express each other, or express ourselves differently.

Um, just as long as, like, you know, it's, yeah, it's like, like I want to know if you're feeling like you're getting pressured into this, or like, you, you are not sure. Like, I, I, I just want to know. So,

Yeah. And I don't feel that way, if I'm supposed to answer that question, but like,

Oh, no. I know. Yeah, we already had that conversation. But yeah,

I thought you were asking, so I was like,

No, no, no. I, I was telling you, but like, yeah, I, I do like that, just for the, just for the record, but yeah, we,

No worries.

Yeah, it's okay.

The last little bar.

Yeah. No, but okay. Okay. Well, um, yeah. I mean, the way that I see it is kind of like when somebody is planning a vacation and then, you know, you talk to a friend about it briefly or casually, or, "Oh, I can't make it to that event because, remember, I'm going on that vacation." And then the friend is like, "Oh, yeah, like that's so dope. Like, are you excited for it?" You're like, "Yeah." But it's like you're just focusing on the itinerary, making sure you get that money in, but you haven't really settled on it, but you know that you want to go and you want to do this because you keep investing in it, but the, let's say, the extended emotional piece hasn't fully got there yet. I don't know if you guys ever experienced that when you guys are like literally paying for a vacation and you are excited, but you don't really feel as excited until like the time gets closer or the day of.

Yeah.

And so I think that is kind of like what he's experiencing. And so I wanted to share that just so like, because here is a a scenario that to some degree you can relate to. And yes, being married is like way more serious than taking a vacation, but the feeling and the behaviors is kind of the same. You are doing what you need to do. These are things that you want to do, and, um, you don't really have time to like soak in it, um, extensively, but, uh, but again, you know, like, you feel pretty good, and this is what you want to do. So, um, so do you feel at peace about, um, the conversation that you guys have had and what's discussed here? Do you feel like Sounds good, but you're going to keep one eye open until you guys, you know, swap rings? Where do you feel at it? Really?

M. I don't think like something like that goes away instantaneously, but I feel better about it. Uh, getting into a place where I can be more secure and like trust the things he's saying. He hasn't given me a reason not to, as well. Um, you know, so, um, I just want to make sure that to continue to check in, um, that like he doesn't have any fears that are so large that they're like in, like making him second guessess like moving forward, I guess. So I think, yeah, that's where I'm at. But I'm, I'm at peace about him not showing as much outward emotion, um, at this time.

Yeah. And I think one thing, just to interject there, I think one thing that, and I'm not 100% sure of this, but maybe inhibit some of my emotion is, I'm still figuring out what the boundary is between letting my OCD thoughts run wild, but like, but like what I'm allowed to bring to her. Does that make sense? And like bringing fears and everything. And I think the fears go up as you get closer to getting married. And fear is like, well, what if I get cheated on? What if there's something she's not telling me? What if there's, And I don't think it's necessarily her. I think it's all my insecurities are coming out because we get closer to getting married, and there's a fear. And she kind of said that to me the other night, too. And I think I, I took it to heart because I didn't really get what she was saying. And we both have those as we get closer. And it doesn't mean that we don't want to. It means that there's a lot of love that's there. And it's like the, the propensity to be able to be hurt so deeply by somebody. You don't get hurt by somebody you don't give a crap about, you know what I mean? You're just like, eh, whatever. You know, should, should they stay or go? I don't really care. Um, but like your walls go up when you really love someone. And so I think that, you know, I was smiling at her. I don't know whether it was today or yesterday. She goes, "I've never seen you smile at me like that before." And it was because I was able to talk to her so freely in the last day and a half that it just happened naturally. And it wasn't like I haven't been happy, but I think I've been carrying a lot of weight and not being honest. I'm not saying that's all her, but like the more that I know that it's safe to talk about like what my fears are,

The deeper and deeper like I fall in love, and the more close I get, and the more I'm actually able to show it. Um, because I do have a lot of stuff that's sitting on my chest, just in life. And I think being able to to share that and not hold back is like a huge thing right now, you know, and so a lot of times I feel happy, but because there's so much neurosis there, it's like maybe it gets blocked out, you know? So just food for thought.

Yeah. Um, I think what he's trying to say as like a gentle nudge is like your key to success with him is, um, creating that safe space for him to be able to, um, share his fears and concerns. And it's not just him being able to share and you say, "Okay," but more so really being able to, to the best of your abilities, meeting him where he's at and not allowing it to spiral. It's kind of like, "Hey, I'm afraid of what can happen in the future." Doesn't mean that he doesn't want to do it with you.

No, that's not, that's not it at all. I don't. It's not about not wanting to do it with her at all. It's more about like being afraid of what could happen in the future. Like,

H, how do I know you're telling me the truth? And all these different things. And it's like, I think sometimes in the past where the conversation would go is she would hear, "What have I done to make you feel like I'm not telling the truth?" And then there'd be a defensiveness. And what changed the other day was she goes, "Okay, well, why do you feel that way?" And I was able to talk about, well, I'm scared because of this, and I'm scared because of that. And a lot of it is probably, most 80% is probably rooted in the past. There's maybe 30 to 35% at the max that's rooted in our actual relationship. But I do think that even if it was somebody else and I was moving forward with marriage, I think that getting closer to the thing, I would be really afraid of being cheated on. So, if that's any consolation, I think that like, it's, it's not her, what I'm trying to say. It's just that there's like questions I need answered so I can like plug gaps in my head because it's like, it's also helping me heal by being able to talk about it.

Yeah. Yeah.

Well, I'm not saying that it's her as well, but,

It sounds like the key to her success with you feeling comfortable with her is you being able to share your thoughts and concerns without her getting defensive.

Definitely. Definitely. And how can I,

Because if she does, then it's like, well, see, this is what I didn't want to happen. And if anything, it might feed a concern that you already had.

Right. And how can I help her with her fears? It almost feels like they're kind of interconnected.

Cuz I can be more present when,

She is more accepting.

Mhm. Yep. And that's why it's important to really take time with the person that you are wanting to invest in because literally what you do and feel can not only impact you, the person, but your partner as well, and it really is kind of like that affinity loop.

And so, um, yeah, but okay, so in regards to what her Point number one, um, it sounds like it's worked out and she's able to just navigate forward. It doesn't happen overnight, but it sounds like she's leaning on to your action and words in regards to you being excited and you wanting this. Yeah. So, point number two, that was your concern, Lex?

Uh, I think it was going to the the argument, um, that night, um, trying to remember what I said. Like, something along the lines of, like, um, not, not being able to communicate when he's mentally, like, not in the place to have a conversation, or like, if he feels like it's going to, um, uh, what's the word?

Spiral.

Yeah. Yeah. But like, um, like you're, you kind of get in these modes sometimes where you're a little bit more easily ignited, and like, um, it's like, just kind of being able to identify that within yourself and then communicate, "Hey, this isn't the best time to have this conversation because I feel like I could be overly sensitive right now, and I don't want it to escalate, um, into an unnecessary, like, argument." Um, I don't know if that's a fear. Like, that's what I'm saying. Like, I don't know how to like categorize it as a fear, but like, not like working through the steps, like, not having good, like problem-solving, maybe like long-term, like things like that. Um, like, not working with me, like trying to like solve something together, like I feel like, like being, like it felt like, like he was against me in that moment.

Okay. If I understand correctly, it's a fact and a question. It's kind of like, like a statement like, "Fix it." But your concern, fear is, um, you know, like, "Hey, if you are having a tough time regulating your emotions now, what would that look like in different scenarios" where he gets to like an escalated point and you guys need to make a decision and feel like you don't really have much of a say because he's emotionally possibly disregulated, or is that not what you're saying?

I think, yeah, I think that's that's accurate.

Okay. So what are your thoughts about what she is sharing that?

I totally get where she's coming from. Um, I think like a week ago, it probably, hearing that, this is why, like, it just feels like something's different. I think that would have pissed me off a week ago because I would have started defending myself over like, "I'm so busy." Like, I, cuz I am the busiest I've ever been in my life. But it's like, from an outsider looking in, like, we, we don't really know what the other person's fully going through. Like, nobody can, except for God, you know? And so it's like, I get why she feels that way because I think all she can see is what she sees from the outside, right? So it's like, I know that that's not the case. Um, but I hear her and I understand why she feels that way. But I, I, I, I definitely think that it's gonna get better. Um, as I'm not in school full-time, you know, I think it's just kind of sent me over the edge a little bit to where it's like,

And just my living situation, like a bunch of things, right? I'm kind of like being squeezed like a lemon. So,

Some of my probably worser qualities are coming out more. Um,

But yeah, I get, I get why she feels that way. But yeah, I, I can definitely, I can definitely work on that. And, um, I just know it's going to get better whenever I get out of school. But in the meantime, it's like, I'm still responsible for showing up in a specific way so I can work on being more patient and trying to not, um, I think what happens in those moments is I, I feel like I'm being talked down to, like that. And, um, I feel like I'm being cornered and I can't speak, and I feel like a little boy again. Um, and I'm being like shamed. And I think that I, I start feeling like I have to stick up for myself. Um, but like, as we're sitting in therapy right now, and I'm hearing her and everything, I can understand where she's coming from. So,

I don't know if that answers her question, but or makes her feel better.

I think it's, uh, nice to be acknowledged at least. Um, and I think like the way you're responding does make me feel hopeful that there could be like better communication and makes me think about what Tori was just saying, that I think like the key to getting what I guess I need, but what we both need, is to like be a little, like, remember to be soft in my delivery. Like, remember to, um, create a space where we feel like we can share freely because I think when there's less like pre-built up tension anyways, like, then little things don't make like the situation like spark over because there's been all this stuff underneath the surface that like hasn't been addressed. So, I think like, you know, like that, that'll be our experiment, I guess, like, kind of figuring out like if, like this can open up the the grounds to be like, "Hey, I'm not really understanding you in this moment. Like, I've, I've tried a couple times. Like, I don't think we're like, I don't think we're getting the point." Cuz I think that's what happened. Like, I tried to ask a question, but like, I think by the third time that I tried to like explain like what I was talking about, then I started being like, "I think you're this," and like, then I started labeling, which I shouldn't have done. And like, that's like where then you started like counter back.

That's where you countered back at me and then started like lashing out. And so like, um, I think that, um, yeah, like I think it's just recognizing between the both of us, like, it's not time to like have this conversation right now. Like, let's table it, but still not let it, like, I feel like we say that sometimes, but then it's like, now there's this like angry air, and it's like, "Hey, I still love you. Like, let's, and just like, let's continue on this night in like a positive way and like not, not get over this one little thing." So,

That, that, that is true. That is true. There. I, and I don't know when that happened. I'm not saying I wasn't like rude before that or whatever, but that's where I come,

Become very upset because I start getting labeled as all these terrible things. And she's not calling me names, but it's like she goes, and then I'm doing this, and you're mansplaining to me, and you're saying this to me, and you're doing that, and it's like, and then I try to do that, and you shut me down. Like, it's like, like those, I'm not saying you said those exact things, but I'm saying it's like these, these labels that I, and I'm like, "That's not my intention at all." And I feel really misunderstood. And before I can respond, I feel like there's these things, and then I start defending myself, and then it's a battle of like, who's doing what, and it's not even about the original thing anymore, and we're kind of in this, we've gone way off the path, and it's like, we don't even really know where the, the path is anymore because we, we're both covered in mud, kind of, you know, um, because it's about being understood in that moment. Um, but yeah, I, I think that's where, that's where at least I have gotten upset in the past, you know. Yeah.

So with that particular fear, I think like, uh, it, it just might take some time on working on this new method of communication. Um, and hopefully that can alleviate that because I think like we're starting to run into a wall. Like, that's what it felt like. It felt like we were kind of like at the precipice this weekend to kind of like go back to your questions from earlier about what made this different. But it felt for me like, like I actually really like was like fed up and just felt like I, like, like that's why I wasn't wearing the ring, and I, like, usually I'm like, "Oh, like, like I don't want him to leave," and everything, and I'm like, "I do want him to leave," because like, yeah, I'm just tired of it. And so like, I think that like it was kind of like just a turning point type of thing, at least for me, of being like, "Hey, like, we can't continue operating like this." And so like, I think just, um, yeah, kind of being forced to to make a change. Um, but I, obviously, it's going to be a change for the better. So,

So, um, I mean, if I, so I think we found, I guess, like the little riff when it comes at least that part, which was, you are asking him, you are telling him, um, in a way that is kind, but in some of those moments, he's not able to receive or understand what you're saying, and then you get overwhelmed, and it's like, "Okay, like, kind of like these cutesy words ain't working, like this is what it is," but then it's like, he gets like defensive, and then, but then he got your picture, but now he's like responding, and you know, his defensiveness, and it kind of like goes back and forth. And so,

Um, it can be a lot for both parties. Um,

I would say that it is going to take more patience on both ends. Um, so for you, Lex, I think instead of spinning your wheels on what is another language you can say it, asking him just upfront, like, "What part does he not understand?"

Okay.

Because it's kind of like, for example, like a therapist, like, you know, we don't give advice, but obviously, I think, how can I put it? I think of a number of ways and things to consider that can be really mentally taxing, and sometimes a therapist can forget, like, "Hey, the clients know their life better than we do. What do they think about this? How would they want to navigate? What do they think is the issue?" So it's kind of like putting, um, not putting, but like, not feeling like you have to have all the answers.

Okay. So when he says he doesn't understand, and even though you're coming to him with this concern, you don't have to feel like, "Okay, well, crap, like, how do I need to say it this way?" Because what if that wasn't the way that he needed? So, um, long story long, you could just ask him what part he's not understanding so you can clarify. And if it's something where like, I'm not able to, like, the idea wasn't fully fledged, and I think maybe my mistake was trying to work it out with him in that moment when he already wasn't like mentally, like 100% to be able to understand what I was saying. And he did actually, like, later, like maybe 20 minutes later, like paraphrase back what I actually meant. And like, he did get it, but like, he said it was kind of so late by then that it's like, now everybody's all prickly, and like, it's not like the good environment anymore. So maybe like, should I just say, like, if he's like, "I don't understand anything about what you're saying," it's like, "Okay, well, like, why? Why don't I table it until I'm able to kind of come back with, like, or maybe when you're in a better mode? Like, is that okay as well?"

Yeah, I think it's great.

Um, actually, a quick example, um, I think I told you guys about, like, the friend that I was talking to, and then you're now talking, and all those things. Um, when we have, one of the instances was, um, us getting ready to talk about something vulnerable, but he has to go. And so, um, before it was like, you know, he would say like, "Okay, hey, like, we can't really dive into that right now because, you know, he got to do blah, blah," and then there was a moment where, let's say, he entertained the conversation and didn't put a hold on it. And so I'm like, "Well, great, like, thanks, you know." Um, and then we talked about it, and he was like, you know, like, "I realized that I should just say, like, 'Hey, we're not going to like, basically have like a, if it's a serious conversation, big conversation, not have it right when I know I need to leave.'" And so, um, I'm saying that to say that sounds kind of similar, like, you know, "Hey, if you, if you know within yourself, or if you know that he kind of reached his threshold, it's like, 'Hey, we're not even going to dive into that too much right now, and we'll come back on it.'" Even for for the both of you guys, I don't know if that makes sense. So I understand for you, like, not furtherly explaining when you don't even know your full thoughts on it. But I think it's also important to add in if you guys are both not mentally in that head space, because it's kind of like a math problem where, you know, you keep looking at it, and I can do this, I can do this, and you go take that break, you eat your snack, and you come back, and it's like, "Oh, now I get it," and it's like, "Why I didn't think of this before?" where you kind of needed a brain break. I gave like so many examples, and at that once I probably just shouldn't.

100%, that makes total sense.

No, I think I think that's very helpful. Um, I had another thought, but it, I lost it, but it was something along the lines of, just like, uh, oh, it was because, um, I told him I got confused also because we were having kind of a very deep conversation about masculine and feminine roles, and it was a good conversation when I was telling him about my my friend that got pregnant. And so I think I told him the next day, like, "Sometimes I get confused because you come in and you say you're exhausted, but then you like really get in depth with this conversation with me and kind of go very deep, which seems like it requires a lot of like mental, like, thought, um, to go into that." And so then that's why I proceed to go into something like that because I'm like, "Okay, we're already having that type of conversation." But I was like, "Is it when it relates to us as opposed to talking about like other people or like thinking about just like existential things? Like, that's why it's difficult." And he was like, "Yeah." And so I was like, "Okay." So it's just like, but I feel like I'm still learning that type of stuff because for me, I'm like, "Well, if we're already talking about that, like, why is that an issue?" And it doesn't make sense to me. Again, by like trying to ask the questions and like understanding him, like, I think that helped the next day when we were in like that better mental space and like kind of were working things out. So,

And I kind of fell into that too, cuz technically he did kind of say he needed to go, but we kept talking, so it's like, "Okay, you keep talking, and you got the time," and then it's like, "Dang." And so, um, so yeah, so I think, um, you hit it on the head. And I think lastly, I would say for the both of you guys, um, recognizing, and that will be your actually your guys' homework, um, to take self-inventory on what are your physical symptoms, your emotional symptoms, even like your mental symptoms when it comes to like, "Okay, I'm going from calm, casual baseline to I'm getting elevated," and what does that, like, "Okay, I am for sure elevated, and now I'm just going to say whatever, however." So there's this theory or whatever, one of the techniques that they are talking about is like flipping your lid, and so it goes into like this science aspect of like, I think it's like when your amygdala, um, kind of like goes open it and feels like just like all these alarm bells and things like that. And so when you pass this threshold, you basically, you can pass this threshold within yourself where you don't have rationale. So it's kind of like when you see those movies and like someone calls 911 and the dispatch is asking all these questions, and it's like, "What do you mean, just get here? What are you talking about? I don't know. I can't remember." And all these things, or, you know, you're being interrogated, and it's like, "I don't know. That's a good question. I wasn't even thinking about that. It just happened all at once." Like, so if the lid is flipped, there's a lot, there's, um, not a lot of rationale in those times. And so in order to keep it, it's like this cute little hand gesture. So, in order to keep it calmly closed, and we can receive well and do well, um, you guys just take an inventory in yourselves. Um, and what does that look like for you to be able to continue on like this calm baseline? I don't know if that makes sense.

No, it does.

Okay. And if you do see your partner feeling elevated again, you can acknowledge that, like, "Hey, like, you know, it seems like you're getting a little more flustered right now," just saying what I'm observing. "Is it okay for us to continue this conversation, or do we need to table it?" And hopefully, you guys won't look at it as like your partner calling you out in a negative way, like, "Oh, you can't handle it. Can you really handle it now? Do we need to handle it later?" But more so, "Hey, you're getting overwhelmed, and that happens, and it's okay. And I'm taking care of you by saying, 'Hey, I'm seeing this in you if you don't notice that. And are you okay to have that conversation right now?'"

Yeah, I like that.

Definitely.

But you guys did great today.

Thank you.

Very proud. Sorry. Were you going to say something, Matt?

All I was going to say, this is just for something like next week, um, around like my, like I really want to also dive into my fear of, uh, um, just infidelity and everything like that, like just that fear that I struggle with. So, I want to, I want to dive into that, like next week. I'm saying it out loud as like a reminder, um, just so I don't forget because I don't want it to keep coming up in our relationship because I know it can be like Groundhog Day. Um, so I just kind of want to nip that in the butt as much as I can, you know? So,

Yes. And I feel like, ah, Tori, do what you said that you're going to apply, but I feel like it's important to say because I don't know. I mean, I'm assume it's going to be brought up next time, but I'm not too sure, but I feel like it's important to like talk about it while it's there. Right. So I guess my last little thing is, um, when it comes to that topic, we will dive in more. Yes. But I do think some of the action per Lex, um, does drive that fear and concern, which was the ring taking off. And so, um, he's already, again, flipping lid, like already like through the roof. Um, rationale is a little challenging. And he's trying to like close it. He's trying to be calm, but then, you know, it's nothing like walking into the house. "Oh, hey, babe. What just happened? Like, why is your ring not there?" And so, um, what am I saying? So I definitely want to say that's something we could definitely massage in next time. But I did want to, I guess, introduce that thought or that situation. Um, because just like how we talked about, "Okay, let's, um," no, let me see how I'm trying to put this. Yes, you guys are exercising your freedom on being able to take a break or whatnot, but we got to be mindful in how we are doing it. So, yeah. But any thought, I see is turning.

You mean taking a break like mid-conversation? Taking a break like when you guys like take five or take the nap and things. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. You're saying be careful how we're doing it, like when, make sure, Oh, okay. I get it. In relation to the ring. Yeah. And I think Matt said that like yesterday, the days are blending. Doesn't matter. But at some point he said like, "Whenever we get into arguments, like, please still wear your ring," and like, that's what he needs to see. And I, I, I see that and I'm like, "Yes, like, I'm sorry I didn't do that. Like, I will make sure to do that moving forward." And I think that's why I was happy to have like, whatever conversations he needed to have, like, to understand why I didn't wear it and like to make him feel better about that, because like, I do recognize that that's, um, lid flipping. I think that's so cute, by the way, like thinking of you guys could talk a little bit about that. I only use as a side reference, but yeah, I mean, it really is helpful. And, um, as we approach forward, we can also talk about like the things that can really help the relationship drive, like, "Oh, if you do this one thing, like this is basically like grounds for me to forgive you for sure," you know, whatever the case may be. But I do think also we should talk about like some hard nos. So, kind of like, "Hey, no matter what, we're not going to throw the D-word around unless we're serious. We cannot do that unless we're serious because at that point, it's like words are meaningless, and then actions are meaningless, and we want to make sure that everything is in its appropriate box." Um, so, yeah, but, uh, but you guys did great. I'm super proud. And, um, you guys have your homework on self-reflecting on what it looks like, um, for you when you're at your baseline, if you're feeling elevated, and if your lid is all the way flipped, um, what does that look like? And then we'll talk about that next time, as well as us addressing, um, Matt's concerns on, um, his fing concerns next time. It was like a TV show. So stay tuned. But yeah.

Okay. Well, you guys have a beautiful day, and I'll see you guys next week.

You too.

You too. Sorry. Thank you. Sorry. Bye.