Transcription
Ranking Japanese build quality from worst to best. Who comes out on top? That's what we're going to find out.
Welcome to Car Help Corner and I'm with David from Automotive Press, the YouTube channel, and we're going to be talking about Japanese build quality today.
David, "Hey, how's it going?"
"It's great to finally do a video with you."
"Absolutely. Yeah, it's fun to be uh sharing ideas with you and to be here at the RAV 4 event driving together. So, this going to be fun and yeah, I'm hoping to share some insight with you guys."
"That's right. And for those of you who don't know, David is an automotive engineer and not only an engineer, but he's probably the number one person when it comes to understanding the ins and outs of build quality because he's visited so many factories around the world, done all the tours, even design equipment. So, I can't think of a better person to do this topic with."
"Oh, thank you so much. I appreciate that. That's a little bit flattering. Hopefully I can uh give you guys some ideas. And yeah, I worked in manufacturing for many many years. I still do. And uh I've visited more than thousand different factories around the globe. So we'll we'll see where this goes. Yeah. Yeah. Let's do it."
So let's talk about the build quality specifically with Japanese automakers. So, you know, build quality doesn't necessarily equate to reliability, but it's still a pretty important metric that, you know, a lot of buyers are concerned with. So, when we think about how vehicles are made, the plants where they're made around the world, which Japanese company would you say comes at the bottom in terms of how they're made, and the qual and the build quality in general?
"Right. Okay. So, do you want to talk about both North American factories and Japan factories or starting off with just Japanese factories first?"
"Let's go with automakers. Japanese automakers in general, regardless of where they're made, where they're made."
"Which automaker would you say comes at the bottom?"
"Oh my goodness. You know what? I'd rather start from the top. So, let's start with the top."
"Okay. All right. Let's do the top."
"Yeah. So I mean clearly it's not because uh it's not because I talk about Toyota cars in my channel but in terms of manufacturing efficiency and overall quality control Toyota still comes to the very top. Uh obviously that includes the Lexus factories and many of you guys would know that Toyota produces cars in many places around the world but primarily in North America for North American market but also they do import a lot of car from Japan because they do have many factories in Japan and of course uh but uh they have factories all around the world. So, but I'm going to talk primarily about the North American factories and maybe the Japanese factories because those are the one that will feed off uh the cars that we buy. And so, yeah, I mean Toyota still at the very top. They're very efficient. They're very focused on continuous improvement which which we call it Kaisa in Japanese. And they meticulously improved both the product side and the manufacturing quality side little bit at a time. And they keep making many tweaks and many changes over the years. So, while they might have some problem on the first year of production, generally speaking, after second year and beyond, I mean, their cars are just rock solid, right? They're built well, high quality, and they know exactly what to do to optimize efficiency. So, it's not just high quality, but it's also low cost and really that they're mastermind behind being able to do that. So, I would say Toyota still number one along with Lexus, of course."
"That's not too surprising to hear. I mean, I don't think that's going to be a huge surprise to many because Toyota and Lexus have phenomenal reliability in general. Do you notice much of a difference between the quality in terms of how they're manufactured in say North America versus Japan or would you say they're pretty much the same?"
"Yeah, so they're very similar in the sense that they use the same standard but there are some differences mainly because there there are older more expensive worker in many of the Japanese factories at least within Toyota. So we call them uh takumi specialist people with 25 30 35 years experience and they're more of takumi specialists in Japan you know mainly because people don't quit their job and they stay in the same position for many years so you know they're the ones that can build like say the likes of Lexus LC500 some of the more complicated and some of the more expensive cars um they do that very well so there is some difference but the actual standard is global standard for both efficiency and for continuous improvement and also for general quality control. Uh so there aren't too much quality difference but subjectively speaking if you look at the paint job if you look at the quality of the plastic materials there is a little bit of a difference and a bit of advantage uh when it comes to some of the proven factories in Japan such as a Tahara factory uh in the Nagoya area and also the factory in Kyushu. both build Lexus models and they're really really very experienced factories."
"So Lexus and Toyota number one spot."
"Number one spot. Yeah. And I do have to say that the Toyota factory in Canada specifically is an award-winning factory in Cambridge and WTO."
"Right."
"And so they're just as good as any other Toyota factories."
"Right. Right. I've heard that many times too. Okay. So after Toyota and Lexus at the number one spot, they're number one for build quality. Yes. What would come in number two? This one might be a little bit more surprising or more of a tossup."
"Right? Yeah. So, you know, when it comes to number two or especially number third position, it's harder to judge. I would still give a nod to Honda for number two in terms of Yeah. in terms of like overall quality and then long-term reliability as a result of the manufacturing quality. So, that the two are linked together, right? the short-term um quality that you see when you pick up the car and then the long-term reliability both are connected and if you from that perspective I would say Honda still number two now keep in mind most of the Honda and Acura cars we buy here are produced in North America specifically US."
"Right."
"So uh I mean they also build factories in Mexico but many of the cars that we buy Honda CRVS Civics Accords uh MDXs Pilot Passport or they're all built in the US, right?"
"And we also have a factory in Canada in Alist. Uh so it's still the build quality is really good. Uh efficiency is still very good. Honda is very engineering focused, maybe even more so than uh Toyota when it comes to manufacturing. So they have a really really good approach to very solid engineering. Now they do obviously build cars in Japan as well, but not too many of them come to North America from Japan. Um, so yeah, I I rank them number two mainly because when you look at the build quality in terms of the gaps of the panels, in terms of paint quality, not quite there compared to Toyota, maybe just a notch below. Pretty close, but not quite to the same level."
"Okay, so that makes sense. I mean, historically, Honda and Toyota have generally been at the top, so not too much of a surprise. But I think the number three spot, that one might be a bit more of a surprise to some. So, which Japanese car company comes in number three?"
"Well, clearly Mazda. We pronounce Mazda here in Canada, Mazda in US."
"In Japan, we call it Matsuda."
"Um, but and I might actually even say that in some aspect when it comes to like uh innovation in manufacturing, Mazda is better than Honda."
"So, um but overall, if you include everything, quality, efficiency, all that, I think Honda still has a little bit more edge. Um but Mazda is more innovative when it comes to manufacturing. They're doing things that no one else does. So they're third including everything all the factors but I would say if you just look at innovation in engineering and manufacturing that's they would be number two."
"Fascinating."
"Yeah. And also in terms of the actual panel fit panel alignment and paint quality Mazda is better than Honda. You can park two cars side by side like a CX-5 versus um CR uh you know CRV or look at the Mazda CX90 or CX70 compared to Pilot or Passport and you'll see very clearly the Mazda has a much tighter tolerances. The panels are tighter together. Paint job is better. So the quality is actually better than Honda. But long-term reliability, Honda still seems to have an edge compared to Mazda. And which is why I ranked, you know, Honda number two. But Mazda is pretty close. I almost have to say 2.5. Not quite not quite third, not quite second."
"Uh, but their engineering and their like sheer quality is excellent. If you look at the paint job, it looks like something out of $100,000 car, for example, for Mazda."
"Interesting. and and their engineering their flexible engineering system is second to none. One of the best in global industry. They have a very flexible manufacturing that can produce many different models at the same time and other companies don't do that. Not not so much. Not to the extent of Mazda."
"Interesting. So, what what's fascinating about Mazda these days is that a lot of their vehicles are still manufactured in Japan, which is not that common for North Americans buying vehicles here. And the other thing I've noticed with Mazda, especially in the last decade or so when they've separated from Ford, is there has been a significant noticeable improvement in the quality of their cars and the reliability of their cars to the point where many often wonder are they just as good or sometimes better than some Honda and Toyota products?"
"Yeah, absolutely. And then for that matter, you know, Toyota owns a small percentage of Mazda and so they have a joint venture factory in Huntsville."
"Right."
"Alabama. So that's um uh you know, it's called the Mazda Toyota Manufacturing Inc. and they produce a CX50 there for Mazda and then the Corolla Cross for Toyota. So they do, you know, share many ideas as well."
"Right."
"Um but yeah, Mazda is the one company that people don't appreciate as much, but their quality is really, really high."
"Right. Right. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, like I said, a lot of their vehicles are made in Japan and uh they have very wellproven technology these days, especially with their Skyactive engines and transmissions. You know, they're one of the few automakers that hasn't played around with a lot of overly complicated tech. They still have six-speed automatics in a lot of their cars and simple naturally aspirated engines. So, yeah, Mazda has a lot going for it and uh they're really up there now with Toyota and Honda. Okay, so Mazda number three. Now we're getting into the more iffy one. So what comes after Mazda?"
"Well, so I would say uh Subaru."
"But Subaru will be very close to Mazda also. So I that's why I say after number one, the second, third, and fourth are very lumped together because it's harder to distinguish now. And I would say Subaru um very close to Mazda, very close to Honda as an overall quality. Um but their manufacturing capability they're in terms of innovations and so forth not not quite there compared to Mazda. Mazda takes a bit more risk when it comes to innovation. Uh and Subaru is much smaller company also partly owned by Toyota."
"Uh but they have a very robust high quality control very proven quality control and you know many Subaru models are very reliable longterm as well. So, um, you know, it's I would say number two definitely for Honda, but when it comes to third and the fourth, I would say Mazda and Subaru are very close together and they're also not too far off from Honda in number two spot. So, they're all lumped together. Um, but if I have to put a number, yeah, Subaru will be the next one."
"Yeah, that makes sense."
"And and they, you know, they have a couple factories in in Japan. They've been around there for a long time, but they they produce cars that people really like to keep for a long time as well. So reliability and long-term durability is one of the core foundation for a Subaru. And yeah, that shows through in their manufacturing capability."
"Absolutely. I I can't argue with that one. I mean, I would say those four Japanese automakers, Toyota, Honda, Mazda, and Subaru are really the standouts in the industry. I mean, they they have a significant advantage and a significantly stronger reputation for quality, reliable vehicles, more so than most others."
"Yes."
"And when it comes to the remaining Japanese automakers, that's where they're starting to get a little bit more iffy these days. So, what comes after Subaru?"
"Well, Nissan and Mitsubishi are about the same. I mean, Nissan and Mitsubishi have joint ownership and they share many manufacturing practices. They share many models as well. Uh, and you know, if you go back some years ago, Nissan was really good, maybe even better than Honda, uh, because they had a really high manufacturing capability and they did something really cool. They were one of the most automated factories in the world if you go back 20 30 years ago. But because of the financial challenges and all the turmoil to do with uh changeovers within their executive ranks, uh, you know, it's really I think the manufacturing kind of suffered because of that and overall quality is a little bit affected. So even though it's still a very high quality brand, I still rank Nissan as a really high quality model, high quality brand, um it's um it's definitely come down compared to those brand brands. So yeah, so we had Toyota, Honda, Mazda, Subaru, and so now in the fifth place would be Nissan. But like I said, once you go beyond Toyota, 2, three, four, and five are so closely together, right? It's not like there's a huge gap from Nissan to let's say Mazda in terms of overall quality."
"So pretty close. I mean Nissan produces car both in Japan and you know and also US there's a big factory in Tennessee for example and I've been to I think most of their factories in in Japan for Nissan and the Japanese factories that produces the QX80 for example Nissan Armada really really solid factory. I'm going there in a couple months to visit and that factory actually produces really high quality products. So it's not that they have a low quality product because I'm just sitting in fifth ranking but mainly just because they lost some some advantages over last a few years because of all the changes that are happening. I would say they're still in the very top 20% globally if you look at all the car companies."
"Yeah, that that makes that makes sense to me. I mean, in the last two decades or so, unfortunately, it's safe to say Nissan Infiniti quality has taken a bit of a hit, and you can see that with the reliability of some of their products. Like, they've had a lot of problems with their CVT uh transmissions over the past two decades, which I'd argue is responsible for a loss of sales because it's been a huge, huge problem for that company for a long time. And then more recently, they've had problems with their new VC turbo engines. failing with a major recall. So there's no question as far as you know Japanese automakers go, they seem to be close to the bottom when it comes to their quality. And would you say that Mitsubishi is roughly at the same level as"
"I would say? Yeah, I wouldn't put one above the other. I would say they're almost exactly the same. I mean Mitsubishi Mitsubishi is a much smaller company. uh they don't produce any cars in in the US or Canada and so their cars comes from Japan and I've been to that factory a number of times and it's a very traditional factory with many legacy workers. So these are workers that's been there for very long time."
"and and until such time they begin to retire they still have a really good experienced workers. So, even though Mitsubishi doesn't have the same kind of long-term reliability as Toyota products, generally generally speaking, if you just look at it, it's still very high quality, I think. And so, I would say some Mitsubishi products are better than Nissan and some Nissan products are better than Mitsubishi. It's a little hard to say. Uh, but they're about the same level in terms of manufacturing capability and overall quality."
"That makes sense. I mean, what I always say about Mitsubishi is that the best way to describe them as they're being they're very small. You know, they have a small presence in North America. They have a very small dealer network and they just lack the resources that other companies have. So, you can not only see that in their product lineup, but I guess in their manufacturing too."
"Mhm. I will say that the Mitsubishi Outlander specifically, which is built in Japan, has a really good quality. I've been checking the the overall manufacturing quality and fit and finish of that car many times and it's really well built. Like honestly maybe better than Honda in some cases in terms of fit and finish. Really."
"Pretty close to Toyota in terms of the overall fit and finish. Um, but it doesn't seems to translate into uh same kind of a long-term reliability as Toyota products for now anyway."
"Right. Right. And just out of curiosity, now that we've gone through all the big Japanese automakers, a lot of people wonder how did the Korean automakers rank by comparison, Hyundai and Kia? Because, you know, they have a lot of reliability concerns over the past decade or so. So, where are they at in terms of their build quality as far as manufacturing? Are they at the same level as the Japanese now?"
"Right. Yeah. So, that's a very good question. So if if you just look at pure numbers like an actual data coming out of uh you know, JD Power or Consumer Report or many other data sources then Hyundai and Kia and Genesis as well are actually very close to the Japanese brands and in some cases better like some sometime Hyundai will rank higher than Honda sometime Genesis will rank higher than Lexus in different tests and different data. Um, but the challenge is that when they introduce a new product the first couple of years, I think Hyundai brand in general tend to suffer from more problems than the Japanese brand. The Japanese brand seems to do a better uh launch of a new product. But once the the car has been around for a few years, they tend to catch up. So, it's a little bit hard to give a one kind of single answer for this question. Uh so if you look at brand new car from Kia and Hyundai that just came out uh then there definitely won't be able to compete with the brand new cars that's coming out of Toyota in terms of the initial initial quality control. But give them a couple years and they seem to catch up really quickly sometimes surpassing the competitors you know including Toyota. So if you are giving me asking me a blank statement are they as good as Japanese I would say in general they're in the same ballpark in the same range uh but when it comes to brand new models with a brand new design Toyota definitely does better job of a Honda too uh but after few years some of the Hyundai products are very reliable and very well built so they're definitely above some other European domestic manufacturers and so I wouldn't say uh that they're um let me rephrase. So I won't be able to say that they're not as good as Japanese because they're pretty close in the same general mark."
"Interesting. Well, you know what, David, I'm so glad we were able to do this today. You are the perfect person to talk about this topic with cuz like I said, being an engineer and having visited so many factories around the world, nobody knows more about this topic than you. And uh yeah, make sure if you're watching to check out Automotive Press on YouTube and hopefully we'll be able to do more content like this in the future."
"Yeah, it' be fun to do that, Sherry. So, thank you for invite Thank you for inviting me and uh look forward to working with you again."
"Thank you and thanks for watching and we'll see you next time. play guys."