Transcription
If you have a local website and want to go national, changing your branding is a good idea. You don't need a complete overhaul, but enough of a difference to prevent Google from confusing your national and local sites. Keep them in separate lanes.
Once you launch a nationwide site, you'll gain traction in seemingly random states, perhaps not your initial targets. If you don't see results in your desired states, focus more on them.
Hey friends, welcome back to the Evergreen Marketing Podcast by carrot.com. We help you dial in your online marketing to build a business of freedom and impact. I'm excited to have Brian Sak, a returning guest, on the podcast today. Brian, what's up, man?
I'm doing great, man. Glad to be here. How are you?
Good, good. We're talking about national SEO today. Brian was on the Carrot team and now runs his own SEO agency. He helps investors scale locally and nationally. Today, we'll discuss ranking nationally. If you're an investor in a small or large market and want a national brand, what does it take to get nationwide leads? We'll set expectations, cover common mistakes, discuss strategy, and the content you need. This is a first for the podcast, so I'm excited.
Me too. We discussed this beforehand, but let's talk about expectations: how hard is it to rank nationally for terms like "sell my house fast" versus hyper-locally?
Two years ago, I'd have said national was significantly harder. But after working with clients who expanded from local to national sites, I think national might be easier. Local SEO requires reviews, a Google Business Profile with a physical address, and profile verification—all struggles recently. Nationally, you avoid that. You can still do local SEO in your state/city, but it won't hugely impact other areas.
I don't recommend expanding your local real estate website nationwide. Clients doing well locally, expanding to an adjacent state succeed. But expanding to a distant state yields less traction due to fewer locally relevant signals. Google acknowledges your local presence, potentially hindering nationwide expansion.
Instead, create a new website and target nationally from the start. With three sites per Carrot subscription, create 50 state pages and at least five city pages per state. Internally link city pages to state pages, and state pages to the homepage. This clearly signals a nationwide audience. Build online citations and backlinks to the homepage. You'll get quick rankings for keywords like "sell my house fast," "we buy houses," and "cash home buyers." Near-me keywords are less effective nationally. Initially, use keywords mentioning the state and city. You won't rank on page one immediately, but you might get higher rankings. After launch, build backlinks and tweak pages. You'll gain traction in random states, revealing areas needing more focus.
So, for most, a national website makes sense unless you have a highly optimized local site. Then, link your local site to your national one to avoid confusion.
Yes. Even with a successful local website, link it to your national site. This avoids confusion and prevents your local market from competing with your national efforts. Google won't consider you a local expert across the country. Launch a new website, target nationwide, and link from your existing site. Your first backlink can be your own website—something many forget.
We've discussed difficulty and page structure. What are common mistakes?
The biggest mistake is creating Google Business Profiles for each state. It's time-consuming, labor-intensive, and expensive. Even getting one verified profile with 15+ reviews takes time and upkeep. Multiply that by 50 states, and it's overwhelming. Google might see this as duplicated, even for franchises (Brady Buys Rosenberg, Brady Buys Seattle, Brady Buys Dallas). They might sense something is off.
That's a good point. The only exception is an honest franchise with physical locations, dedicated phone numbers, and an established name. But getting those for 48 states is unnecessary. It's like the "One Thing" graphic: focused effort yields better results.
Another mistake: not changing branding. If your national site competes with your local one, it creates confusion for visitors and Google. Keep the name, address, and phone number separate.
Another mistake: backlink strategy. With a well-structured site (homepage, state pages, city pages), a homepage backlink trickles down. If you link every city and state page to every other one, it's a tangled mess. Google won't untangle it; it will pick a few at random. Keep it organized: cities within states, states linked to the homepage. The homepage targets keywords like "sell my house fast." Don't cram keywords into URLs, as you'll over-optimize. Choose a brand name without common keywords (Brady Buys). Then, optimize individual pages.
So, for the main keyword ("sell my house fast"), avoid overusing it, correct? Don't tie it to cities.
Yes.
Is keyword research different for national SEO?
Not really. Avoid "near me" keywords. But you might find keyword variations across states. For example, "sell my inherited house Florida" might have higher volume than in Arizona. Broaden your horizons. Different markets have different keywords: fire damage in the Pacific Northwest, flood damage in the South. You can't use the same keywords for every state. There are more opportunities for lower-hanging fruit and situational keywords in different markets. A news event about a wildfire creates opportunities to target content in affected states/cities.
What types of content differ between national and local sites?
Topics remain the same (probate, foreclosure, inherited houses). But instead of a location-specific page ("how to sell a probate house in Oklahoma"), create a national page ("how to sell a probate house"). This links from the homepage. Internal linking changes on the next level: the situation page links to location pages, and location pages link back to the situation page.
So, BradyBuHouses.com (homepage) links to situation pages (e.g., probate). The probate page links to state pages. The state page links back to the probate page. Later, add deeper content ("how to sell a probate house in Texas").
Yes. The homepage, state pages, and city pages are stage one. Situation pages are stage two (topics you're an expert in). Stage three is location-specific (e.g., "how to sell a probate house in Texas"). You can link to state resources. This generates backlinks and SEO equity. A national-level page won't do that. But don't write 3000 pages—that's overwhelming. Use Carrot's auto-location page builder.
Backlinks: what are you targeting nationally?
The best backlink is to your homepage. Guest blog posts can link to state or city pages, especially if relevant. One client wrote about a Texas foundation-watering myth, generating backlinks. You can reach out to local publishers or bloggers. Incentivize with payment. Don't buy backlinks; get organic traffic through quality content.
High-quality backlinks are more valuable than many irrelevant ones.
How do you increase organic traffic nationally?
Use a broader approach than focusing on specific city pages: evergreen marketing (blog posts, YouTube, podcasts), and underutilized social media (Pinterest, Reddit). Pinterest provides no-follow backlinks, and you can link your website on Reddit. Answer questions, provide value, and occasionally drop a link (one in ten posts). This increases organic traffic and website metrics.
We now know, from the Google API leak months ago, that user metrics heavily influence rankings. Better user metrics—more time spent on your site, more pages clicked—increase your chances of ranking higher. If a page performs well in one state, others might rise with it because Google considers user metrics at a domain-wide level, not just page or state level. Google might see a website with 1200 monthly clicks, six-minute average session times, and conclude the content is helpful, thus ranking the entire website higher, even for local markets.
Pinterest is a great example. You won't get backlinks from every pin, but its open access means Google can easily crawl its content. Create a real estate investor Pinterest account, with boards on topics like selling inherited houses or foreclosures. Populate these boards with your pins and others', linking each pin back to your article, city page, or state page, with your main profile linking to your homepage.
I learned this launching my sushi website. While sushi's aesthetic appeal makes Pinterest a natural fit (a hub for recipes and food bloggers), this approach works for real estate investors too. I have clients testing it; I don't have data yet, but I'm optimistic based on its success in other industries. Pinterest fosters information collection; users aren't overly critical, so even less polished content can work if it addresses their specific needs. Repinning increases your Pinterest visibility, leading to more clicks and website traffic, creating a snowball effect. For my sushi site, Pinterest was my second-highest traffic source after YouTube.
YouTube usually tops the list, but its videos must be high-quality and authoritative to drive website traffic. You can't just make videos and expect traffic. The bar for content linked from Pinterest is low. A visually appealing image often links to a basic blog post. Pinterest has unique keywords, acting as a separate search engine from Google, offering different insights. This is particularly true for seasonal items.
We discussed Reddit and Pinterest strategies. As marketers, we've seen Reddit work well to drive website traffic. Brian pointed out that engaging in conversations on platforms like Reddit and Pinterest (which aren't login-gated like some forums, unlike Bigger Pockets, which *is* searchable) and including your link organically (one in ten times, avoiding spam) generates more traffic. These no-follow backlinks don't directly boost SEO, but at scale, increased page views and time on page signal to Google that the content is helpful, leading to higher rankings.
For new national websites, prioritize Reddit and Pinterest over backlinks. User metrics are crucial; we’ve seen sites with unimpressive backlink profiles outrank those with strong profiles, suggesting user metrics are the key. PPC campaigns, even without dedicated landing pages, contribute to user metrics, positively impacting SEO indirectly. Bandit signs, direct mail, TV ads, and billboards all feed user metrics, boosting SEO holistically. Years ago, marketing was more holistic; now, things are more digital and segmented. But all marketing efforts contribute to SEO, with user metrics driving the results.
Trevor and I studied top-ranking real estate sites. Some anomalies showed surprisingly low backlinks; one in Roseberg (a small market) had only four backlinks, yet ranked well. Even in large markets like Dallas, some top-five sites had low backlinks.
To rank nationally, focus on: 1) site structure (homepage linking to state pages, then city pages, using auto-location pages); 2) online directories (Yelp, Yellow Pages, social media accounts for citations); and 3) user metric generation (Reddit, Pinterest, social media). Early organic signals are more impactful than early backlinks from a new site. Building situation pages discussing topics generally (without location targeting) helps Google understand your expertise and can leverage tools like Carrot's Niche Authority Builder.
The Google antitrust lawsuit revealed Google pays Reddit for API access, explaining why Reddit threads appear in search results. Use Reddit to gain a competitive edge.
You can find me (Brian) on the Carrot Marketplace; my business is Fox and Owl Marketing. Leave us podcast reviews or YouTube comments to help us reach more people.