Portuguese Pythons: Scaling to 70 Clutches & Breeding Smart in 2025

What's up, everybody? It is 8 o'clock on the East Coast. It's uh it's 5:00 PM on the West Coast, where the guests tonight are coming from. I got Renee and Danny Roachcha of Portuguese Pythons in the green room tonight. Let's get right to it. Stick around.

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Good evening, everybody. Thank you for being here. It's Proper Royals live, coming to you ad-free. I don't know if you noticed on YouTube now, there's no more ads. You don't have to uh sit through stuff. You don't have to skip stuff if you're driving. You don't have to look away from the road to try and uh, you know, try and skip an ad. That's brought to you by people like Palm Street, as well as kind people like Portuguese Pythons. Look, all all joking or tongue-in-cheek stuff aside, um, people told me that the episodes were almost unwatchable because there were so many ads these days. And I think partly that's because it's good content and they were able to sell the ad space, but uh, I wanted to be good for the viewer, and there's so many people that from within the community that support the community. I said, you know what, get rid of the YouTube ads. So, coming to you ad-free. I hope that you enjoy it.

If you haven't tried Palm Street, you should check it out. You can download the app. It is a live selling platform. Sell uh reptiles, but a whole lot of other cool things as well. It's live. It's interactive. Um, the best way I could describe it is kind of a TikTok meets a selling platform. Those are my words, not theirs. But go check it out. If you want to apply to sell on Palm Street, there is a link down below that you can apply to sell reptiles. You do have to go through a vetting process to get approved on there, but it's mainly uh husbandry and making sure that you know how to ship live animals. We don't need people, you know, practicing these things if they don't know what they're doing. So, check that out. Huge thanks to Palm Street.

Um, thank you to Cold Blooded Expo this past weekend in Minneapolis. Fun show. One thing I didn't realize when I moved to the upper Midwest, if it's a beautiful day in the summer, everybody is outdoors. They're out somewhere. Like for reptile shows, we need rainy, nasty days. That's what we need because we have these winters that everybody gets cooped up in. The days are long. Like 10:00 PM at night, it's still like dusk outside here in Minneapolis. So, there's these long, beautiful days. And um, anyhow, even with all that, it was still a solid show. Uh, it wasn't like one crazy rush. It was just a steady flow coming and going all day. I had a solid show, especially for summertime. So, I appreciate it. Any of y'all that are tuning in tonight for the first time that maybe I met this weekend, thanks for the support. I appreciate it.

Um, did you guys see, did you see the quiet announcement this week? I predicted that the green check mark was the imminent indicator of the increase in shipping prices. It is here. So, what better time than ever to check out Redline Shipping. I'll tell you more about them later. It came true. It's there.

Um, I don't have much in the way of announcements. I'll just tell you a little bit about what's going on. Uh, this whole room now, for the first time in three years, all my animals are now on substrate. I used to, and I still prefer, but I can't right now. I prefer just paper towels that I clean, and I just swap the whole tubs. I have extra tubs. Uh, twice a week, I would go through and flip the whole room. Uh, any that were soiled, I mean, if they're still clean, I wouldn't flip them. But as far as like spot cleaning and that stuff, I just don't like it. Um, but I'm in the process of moving to a new facility and I've got to start taking things like my sink and starting to get some of my equipment out of here and I need to be able to spot clean and clean by hand rather than flipping tubs constantly. So, uh, my son and I, uh, Charlie, we got that done today and so it's kind of a big day. Uh, nice fresh aspen smell in the room. I worked hard, man. There's I think nearly 300 tubs uh set up, washed, put away. Everything is on drying racks, room cleaned. So, I will be moving the reptiles into the new facility or starting to in the next probably two weeks or so. The rodents are there now. Um, and I'm operating out of there. So, I got to get back to where I only have one place to operate from. Going back and forth is um, it's not efficient.

Speaking of Palm Street, before the end of the month, I'm going to pick a date. Uh, you guys in the comments, you can let me know too. Like, what's the best day to do an auction? Like, what's a day when there's not, you know, every other podcast going, which is cool. I got no problem with other podcasts, but like also that you would tune in to an auction. Like, is something out of the box like a Thursday afternoon cool? Like maybe you're at work. You're just like, I got to have some entertainment. Or should I do like Sunday midday? There's no football. I don't think there's going to be the basketball finals. Um, but anyway, I'm going to do 20 animals that start at $20 bid prices. Uh, everybody's looking for deals these days. It's a tough market. I got to move some stuff. Um, let's see what happens. I call it 20 for 20. Um, I'll start those at 20, but I'm going to do it at the end of the month. I want to advertise it for like two, three weeks. Really get some eyeballs on it. And I'll throw in some cool stuff, too. I promise you that.

Um, look at this. Speaking of good people that help out good people, shedesting.com. He's here for the Portuguese people. Um, check out properroyals.com if you haven't. It's mostly up to date. Uh, I made a couple investments this week, so I actually have some new things that are newly obsolete that I'll start to sell that were holdbacks. So, I'll update that. I'll post those on Instagram as well. And then, uh, stay tuned on Instagram. I'm going to do, we'll do a live cutting this week. I haven't done one of those in a while. I've got some uh clutches coming up. This one will be fun. Nothing like earth-shattering, but it's clown to clown. So, they're all going to be a hit. They're all going to be uh recessive visuals. Uh, leopard orange to uh leopard orange clown to a mahogany clown. So, we'll see if we can get some cool mahogany combos. And I really at most would hold back one male and one female out of that clutch. So, uh, we got seven eggs. Uh, we'll bust those open. I don't know, Thursday, Friday, Saturday. I expect to see pips in there. So, that's what I got.

Um, tonight is Portuguese Pythons. That is the husband and wife duo of uh Renee and Danny Roachcha.

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No uh no uh full transparency, nothing nothing held back. These are great people. They've really been a huge support to me. Um, they've been advertisers for two years now, I think, coming up on two years. And, um, you know, some things I I I have to keep private. They're just private conversations between people, but they've really helped me out um, with breeding insights, uh, breeding projects, uh, ideas, um, fast forwarding me, um, farther along than I thought I would be. And it's just a really great example of of good people in the industry. And the animals obviously are amazing. and important, but the people that I've met doing this show or trying to build this business, trying to build this brand, um, with this platform of this show of kind of open communication and and, uh, teaching and sharing. Uh, Danny and Renee have been amazing. They always reply when I send notes to them. Um, we always, you know, communicate well. I'm proud to represent their brand and I'm thankful for them. So, there you go. There's the full disclosure. Uh, on top of that, they're fun. Uh, they're badass breeders. They've got amazing stuff. So, please welcome back to the Proper Royal stage. Um, it's been almost two years. Like, that's a this is a crime as well. Uh, please welcome to back to the Proper Royal stage. Uh, Portuguese Pythons. Danny, Renee, how y'all doing tonight?

Hi. You're making me cry over here. I know. I'm all emotional. Is there anything more awkward than sitting there listening when you can't respond or make a face or anything to somebody else talking about you? Like, it's it's the most awkward part of the show, but um, I mean, every part of it, and you guys have been pretty special to me. So, thank you very, very much. I appreciate all of that.

Yeah, thank you. Uh, you're welcome. You're welcome. I hope um, I I genuinely hope there's a there's a mutual benefit and and again, you know, certain things can remain private, but I hope I'm not your charity case and I certainly work hard for you guys and I don't think that's the case. So, um, I appreciate it. I'm flattered that you're still here front and center on the logo up top and uh, there we go. I'm I'm happy to have that for you. So, um, how have things been? Two years is a long time and in our world, like I don't know, that's like 10 trips around the sun in a normal person's world. I think like it's kind of a crazy, crazy market, crazy world. How are things for you?

Good. It doesn't feel like it's been two years, but not at all. July 2023. So, 23 months. It's crazy, isn't it? I looked it up last night when I was doing the show prep. I was like, "Well, I'm going to go rewatch the show. What do we talk about?" I was like, "Oh my gosh, that's that's too long." So, um, all right. So, uh, some notes that I had put down in 2023, you said that you thought you would get to about 30 clutches. Now, you had planned on 50, but I guess there was a move and some of them had reabsorbed and that stuff. So, 30 in 2023, what do you think that you'll get to this year or this round of breeding? Because I know that you you probably roll into 2026 at the end of this year.

Well, right now we are sitting at um 44 officially done. Uh, waiting on them to either pre-lay shed or give us eggs. And okay, so but not laid, but like like marked, hey, these are happening. Yeah, these are done. Done. Uh, I think about 20 more. I think we counted the other day, total maybe 71. We'll see if uh any drop off between now and our next ultrasound.

Very nice. Very nice. Do you uh did you put any thought into, you know, like, hey, we should slow down or slim down production this year? Any of those kind of thoughts? Or is it full, hey, we're we're moving stuff. Life is good. Keep it going. We'll ride the ups and downs. Where where do you fall in those thoughts?

I I we've been like slowly growing to this goal. I think that the last season we had like, I guess less clutches because we moved, but you know, we we were okay with doing that because we knew that we had a lot more females are going to be ready for this season that we're looking forward to. So I think this, we're going to, how would you say, like we're we slowly grew into it. So I guess we're going to see where our limits at. I guess this this season. See comfortable. I mean, we're set up for it. So that that's the thing. We're going to see how it goes.

How uh bunched together are they? So, like if if somebody hasn't been breeding before and they say, "All right, you're doing 70 clutches. You're going to average six a clutch. That's 420 hatchlings." Like, how far spread out do you think those will be? And like, like how many hatchling spaces do you have? You don't keep all 400 on on hand, do you?

No. It'll be pretty spaced out. Um, majority of our females come in like clusters. So we started, I think our first clutch, a random one, was laid in January, right? I think she just she was just an early. Yeah. And then we had like two or three maybe like the next month and then the next, I guess five came within the next month. But yeah, probably this next month or two is going to be a little bit chaotic and then when those babies come, it'll be, you know, even more chaotic. But we're prepared for it. I mean, we have four, how many spaces? Four sea serpent hatchling racks. Yeah. Plus the whole, plus plus. Yeah. So we we have the space. But yeah, I always like as I continue growing, I always think of that in my mind and I'm like, I'm always thankful. Like my clutches, I think my first clutch started in March and then I think of, I think my last one will be in December. So, you know, as long as I've got 70 or 80 spaces, I'm good to go. But this year I'll probably flirt with around 40 clutches. And I'm like, if those start bunching up, I'm going to be, I'm going to find myself in a little bit of a of a hot spot, you know? So, I don't know. I got to think about that.

But then, do you find that they start like like uh there's a breeder here in in uh Minnesota that's been at it for, you know, 30 years. He says all of his lay within like six or eight weeks of each other. And he likes it. He says, "That's what I do. That that's that's what I focus on for that period of time, and then uh I don't have to worry about it otherwise." And I'm like, that sounds like a nightmare, man. I like it spread out myself, but that's all I've ever gotten. Do you see yours like bunching up or or changing year to year?

The most we've had at one time was kind of like four clutches hatching out at once, which kind of seemed like a lot. You don't want to mix them up, but manageable. Um, I kind of like how it's spaced out because you can get those ones started and and whatnot and start moving the older ones out while the newer ones are coming in.

Yeah. Yeah. I was wondering if like like so a lot of my snakes came from Florida, so there was that seasonal timing which is way different than Minnesota seasonal timing. And I bought a lot of animals since I've been up here and then of course, we're all shipping across the country all the time. Like, does that play into it, you think? Or or is it, I don't know. Am I overthinking this or they're just going to randomly do whatever they do?

I think so. I think it's going to change with the seasons too. Like if somebody like you're saying, if I bought a let's say you bought a proven breeder from Minnesota or from Florida, you took it to California, I'm sure it's going to be off, right? Yeah. Something's going to be off. Or I mean, maybe some from Florida might be a lot closer than it would from Minnesota.

Yeah, that's what I'm trying. I mean, it's nothing I can change, so I just roll with it. Like say I like it spread out, but I'm trying to. And like like he actually scared me when he was like, yeah, all I mean, he's probably making 50 clutches. Like he's like, yeah, all of mine lay within six or eight weeks of each other. I'm like, "Oh, no. That sounds horrible, man." But I'm sure if you like you played with the temperatures more, you might be able to get a tighter season. You know, that's true. And maybe he does. I don't I don't know. That's true. Yeah. I just keep my. I don't.

Do you Do you do the temperature drops or anything or you just let seasonality take handle it?

Yeah. Well, the room naturally like gets warmer during the summer and stays a little cooler. So, it naturally does it. So, you'll see like the girls kind of follow that too. Like as it gets like cool, like warmer, you'll start to see the bells change with it and like get cooler.

Yeah. I mean, there's always a couple degrees like even no matter how how tight I try and keep it, especially here in Minnesota, like it's it's going to drop some in the winter and drop some and warm up some in the summer. But anyhow, it's it's kind of stuff that I I probably obsess over for no good reason other than it just interests me. And I'm like, you know, as I I'm always thinking about scaling and future volume and what I can handle and efficiencies. And it's like, man, if that happens, that's going to that's going to be a problem for a month or two in my life, I think.

Yeah. I mean, I think all you could do is prepare, right? Like even like I say, we're we want to do, we're going to do the 70 clutches. We might get there and say, "This is way too much work." And we'll scale back a little bit, but I mean, you you won't know until you do it. But just got to make sure you got prepared. Like either you got enough rodents to do all that, too. Like you can't just have all these clutches and not have like the rodent supply behind it either.

Yeah, that's a big thing. We've talked uh we talked on the phone some before. How is your uh how's your rodent production going? What are you finding that you're that's working for you? Uh, I know in California there's certain certain things that we don't talk about or that can't be had or whatever, but you know, hypothetically, what's working well? What's not?

I we feed mainly rats, but I just I'll give them whatever they want. I mean, if they want to eat mice, they'll they'll eat mice. All my males are just on mice. Just they find it easier. Yeah. They they I mean, if I want to like last week I didn't have enough mice, so I just fed them like a rat pup or like a small wean, and they'll take it. It doesn't matter.

Yeah. Yeah. Why? So, are you you're breeding uh mice and rats?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just here I can have soft furs. I just soft furs are the only thing that I breed here, but I've got the line for frozen rats, which is what I feed most of my uh breeder females. Um, but you mentioned, you know, switching off. It drives me nuts at shows when people are like, "I don't want this to get hooked on this." And I'm like, it's like so slim. Like, it's it's less than 5% of the problem, I think. And so like like my breeder females when they hit maybe 15 millimeters or so, it's all you can eat buffet on ASFs, man. It is. If they want if they want four in a feeding, they get four in a feed. like I I'll just it it's as much as they want and then after they lay, I'll switch them back over to a frozen thaw rat again.

So, do you guys change up any or is it just a matter of what you what you have available, what you can get your hands on?

They mainly just eat rats unless there's one specifically doesn't want like rats. So, I'll just feed them mice or anything else that I got and I'll just feed them that.

Yeah, I gotcha. And was there any specific reason that you do mostly mice for your males? Is it to keep them, I don't want to use the expression keep them small, but because it's perfectly size appropriate to feed them a mouse, but uh, is or is it because they the feeding response is so strong that they won't they go off food less?

Yeah. But I'll feed them like if they want two or three, I'll still feed them two or three. Like I just I don't know. I just find it they just feed better on them and I feel like they feed more consistent on them. Yeah. I mean, but that could just be me thinking that, but I don't know. I just I just find it better. Just the mice just, I don't know. That feed better for me.

Oh, between the just the smell of mice, I'm just like, I don't even want to deal with it. Like, I mean, if you want to do ASF, it's the same thing. Mice, ASF, you know.

Yeah. Well, and that's what I do. I do, like I say, I do all ASFs. And if there's, you know, if there's a somebody that skips a meal on frozen, the next week I throw them in ASF and then I'll go back to frozen like. And to your point, it's they're going to eat it and they go they go back on the food pretty well. Yeah. But I mean, I like when they're like when they're not breeding or any like anytime they want to eat, I just feed them. So like they want to get as big as they want to get before breeding season, I just feed them because I know they're going to go off food. That way I don't have to stress out about it.

Yeah. The males or the females?

Males. Yeah, the males.

Okay. I don't know. A lot of mine, knock on wood, I've been pretty good about I haven't had too much of uh eating issues with most of my males this year. So, I'm I'm I don't like it when it happens. But I know I know it's part of it, but I don't like it. I just I'm just like, you got to eat, man. You got to eat.

What's that? I said it gets stressful. I know. I know. Especially like they're all special because they're all animals and they're live animals and they're important, but there's certain things that you've worked towards or that you finally have accomplished and you're just like, "Not you, not that. No, you're you're like, it's always that one."

Always. I know it is. I know, man. I know. And I'm like, uh, okay. So, um, but, uh, so how many, uh, how how much do you push your males or what's the what's the like the rotation that you um go for on your males?

Oh, I don't know if there's like a you're talking about like like female to male ratio.

Yeah. Like or or where do you max out like your favorite one this year? Like where do you like go? Where's like All right, that's that's going to be I'm going to have to cap that out.

I think it depends on there there's a lot of factors, right? It depends on age, right? And it depends on his size. So, an older male Yeah. older male, you're going to be able to stretch him out a little bit longer. Like a younger male you're worried about not eating consistently, you know, you might be a little spare. You know, you're not Yeah. You're gonna you're gonna pick and choose where you're going to breed them at. So, I think that makes a big difference, too, and how you use them. So, and that depends how many females you could put them to, too.

Let me ask you this on the uh you know we could see year, especially the established uh females, the ones year-over-year like we kind of know when to expect that they're going to build. Do you if say that you're maxing out the male at three or four females at a time, but what about the length of the year? Like say say you know that you've got 12 females, but they're spread out over nine months when they're going to lay. I'm I'm just throwing out numbers off the top of my head. Do you do you take into consideration the length of time as long as they're eating or or is there just a certain number that you pair to and then you're like that's it?

I think length of time. Yeah. But I think that's something that sometimes we don't think about too. And I think that's a lot of things like if when you when you breed consistently a majority of the year, you don't think about that male does have enough time to rebound too, right? A lot of times these males are just not not fully rebounded. A lot of times you have to set them out for the season too.

Yeah, I did um um actually Keith is in the audience. I did a a breeding project with him and the very last ma female that went from his male, my biggest girl in the collection, she laid like 13 eggs, half of them were slugs. Uh, the other most of them didn't have veins and then there were two that had veins and only one of those survived. Like, and I'm like, I want it was the last female. I was like, "Wonder if that that male got wor like, I wonder if that's on the male, not the female." You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then of course, to top it off, it was a male double hat that popped out. No code, no visual, no nothing. Just total like everything. Just nothing. No, no good. So, uh, he's available if anybody wants that mail. Make you a good deal on him.

But we know what we did this season too is we like uh we had like these younger males that we really wanted to get in. So we used the backup male like kind of towards till the very end and then we kind of put them in at the last lock to see you know to kind of save the younger male that we you know that really wasn't going in the beginning of the season. So we had to put the backup in. Right. And so and so you only really use them for one lock here or there depending on you know what other girls he has too. So we kind of been trying that and seeing how that goes. We had one year where we we did that at the end. Actually split the clutch with the two mouths.

Wow. I was going to ask like this is really hard to quantify, I'm sure, and like nobody would set out to study this. I don't think it it would sounds it would be just heartbre or just a crazy thing to study, but do you find the last lock gets the clutch more often? Or we only did it for the one time last year?

I think yeah, just the one. Um, so we'll see. The we'll see this season what happens. I'm intrigued. I'd be interested to hear what some of people that have been at it for a long time at a high volume if they if they do that. I don't know that that would be maddening though. Be like, which one? I like knowing what I'm dealing with. I don't like I don't like surprises.

Yeah. But like let's just take let's say you had a visual hat male, right? And you've been using him and then you have a double visual male with a kodom or two and like now he's breeding like right, you know, that's when you put him in and try to get the clutch, you know? But that and then if he doesn't if he doesn't hit, then you still have all your you know, you still have the animals going the right way in the project, right? And that that circumstance I get and I actually do that. I have uh orange dream leopard clown and then I have an orange dream leopard red stripe that was like, eh, he wasn't ready at the beginning of the season, but now he's ready. I'm like, well, that other guy's gone or the super gravel clown I just picked up. Well, sorry, super gravel, you're you're retired, you're on the bench now, you're good. Like so like circumstantially, I get that, but as like a plan or as a process, I wonder if that's ever been studied or not.

Yeah. I think there's people that do like a fluffer male in the beginning of the season too and then use like the male after. And I think we kind of did that with some of like, we use some of like the older males for some females like that they're still aligned with the project, right? But we use them and then to get some of these females either getting them eating or kind of getting them like going and and, you know, it works sometimes too. Yeah. You get the right male you want in there after, but you know, you still got to be cautious of you. Make sure you mark everything down like and know what male you put in there, you know, and if you have to shed test later on, you got to shed test.

Yeah. Yeah. Once you put them in there, you're in bed with it. Like that's that's right. Yeah. Yeah. No takebacks on that.

There's um there's another breeder here locally, Joe at JSA. He he swears he likes to just do one to two locks, man. And he doesn't even use ultrasound. I'm like, come on, man. Like that's wild. And I mean, you know, the stuff Joe produces, too. I mean, he's he's crushing it, you know, and he's like, "Yeah, just one one or two. That's what it takes." I'm like, "Wow."

He is. It's It's incredible what you know, it's incredible what you can learn from like just time and and repeated. Sorry, we're having uh I don't know if you heard, I don't know if in the audience could hear any of what went on. That is I'll be cleaning the tub tomorrow. Let's just put it that way.

Snake? Yeah, that was a snake. I thought you had the dog in the room. I thought it was the I thought my freezer was like at like the condenser or something. I don't know. Like whatever it is when the freezer kicks on. I was like, that doesn't sound good. And that's a snake. Oh my god. All right. Yeah. Now that was the fly fly killer. So, um

All right. Uh, well, what um, what talk about what you guys are producing and I know that you're producing a whole lot, so I don't expect you to go through like every pairing, but like, is the mindset still, uh, we had talked a lot both on the phone, but I think on the last show too, of, you know, double hats with kodoms, you were talking about taking a longer path, making the hats and the double hats, or maybe now these days the triple hats along the way. Um, is it still that sort of same plan? Has there been aha moments that have changed your outlook? What do you where's your head at these days?

Go ahead. Um, so I So this year what we did is we've we had a lot of like with the Ultram project, there's been a lot of like we've already made our doubles and some triples we wanted. So this year we really want to make it like simple. We really want to make some really nice looking ultramel combos like two, three kodoms, a Leela combo combos that look good but haven't been made yet. Like a lot of people are like, "Oh, there's a lot of stuff in Ultramel." Like, there's not. Like, there's the same genes out there. Like, so there's a lot of stuff out there that needs to be made. So like not to put five, six, seven genes into them, like three, four genes and like just real simple, cuz like sometimes three or four genes in Ultramel look, I mean, it looks better than some of these six $7,000 animals that you know, this just doesn't look as good. Right. Not just Ultimal. There's a lot of really good animals in specific projects. I'm just talking Ultramel because that's what I'm talking about. Right. Right.

Um, I think that I've been hearing that theme like in the market, it's almost like first first the the prohibitive pricing, like there's just not as many of those buyers out there. So like that that's a very niche audience to reach whoever's going to pay you know, $4,000 and up for animals. But also just the like, it's like way better than the grandma test, but it like it has to look amazing. Like if it looks amazing, like ultimately that's going to be undefeated, I think. And uh, that's neat that you made a conscious decision on that to back off. So you're saying you decided to back off some of the the double and triple tracing at the moment?

No. Uh, not necessarily. Um, we still have like our Ultramel Clown project going, Ultramel Pi project going, Ultramel Puzzle. Uh, I think that's it. But with some of our other females that have like more coatons, we are um, I guess we're trying to replicate this one, like a blackhead entie leopard ultramel, like is so beautiful and the amount of times I could have sold her, but I wouldn't, you know, I'm like, well, people like this and it looks beautiful. So, we're kind of focusing on, you know, putting some really nice code on together, like you said, a leic combos, just getting a little bit more, I guess, combos in Ultramel, uh, within the United States, cuz I've seen quite a bit in Europe, um, on Morph Market and whatnot. And, and we don't really have a lot of different genes added here that I've seen on Morph Market, per se, but um, we're still working the recessive projects as far as Ultramel, both doubles, not triple so much.

No, no, not triple. So, just like Ultramel Pi, Ultramel Clown, Ultramel Puzzle. Um, what else? I think that's it for that. Just make some really good looking snakes. I mean, they're not hard to sell. They look really good. You know what I mean? Like, just don't chase these projects. Like, we're just making stuff that we like. And I mean, most of the stuff, like, if it's a female, I'm going to keeping it anyway. So, it's like unless I have two of them, you know? So, it's like I'm gonna make it for myself first. Like, so if I like it, I'm sure somebody else is going to like it, right? Hopefully.

Yeah. Um, you guys were like really helpful to me in thinking through like, I mean, to your point right now, there's a lot that's been done with Ultramel as far as like sort of like, I don't know, recessive reach, but then as far as the gene selection that's available out there, there's not that much that's been done with that. And we talked a lot, I remember a phone conversation one day, maybe I don't know how long ago it was, time kind of flies by, but we're you guys were just talking about, hey, okay, what happens? You get there to a double or a triple, but you have nothing more to work with. So, you can either recreate the same thing over and over while everybody else is and the market's getting watered down, or you can start early getting the genes in and maybe take another season or two, but then have something that nobody else has and literally can't catch you within five years kind of deal.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's still it's still a lot of work to make these triples and these doubles. So, I'm not taking away from that. But, it's just I want I want to have something in there when I get there, you know, and something that looks different than than what everybody else has already made, right? But once you get the double and the triple, it's not that hard to make them after that, though.

Yeah. So, yeah. So, I mean, I would actually argue it's it's easier to make those than I mean, obviously, it's easier to make those without the code on. We know that. After you make it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So, um, anyhow, I I always thought that was a cool insight and and, um, you guys have like you're focusing on Aelic now, but I know you have a lot of super stuff as well, too. The super dark genes.

Um, well, we have a super blackhead female. She won't be ready to go this season, but we do have a couple pairings lined up to hopefully make some more super uh, blackhead stuff, right? What else?

Well, maybe have one less because I've got a super blackhead Ultramel from you guys. He's been doing work this season. So, he'll uh we kept his sister.

Okay, cool. Oh, I got you. That's the sister that you were talking about. Yeah. Yeah. I guess she wouldn't be ready yet. He's just he's one of those right on that borderline that I just I just I think he's only going to maybe maybe two females. Like like I just got to watch him this first year.

That's good. Yeah. So, we'll see what. Well, I was going to say, we'll see what comes out, but we know what should come out would be uh Blackheads and and Ultramels. Yeah.

Um, any new genes that have like got you going or that you're like, "Oh, man. That's that's something we want." Like one of my favorite questions. What's the last animal that you purchased and invested in?

Oh, easy. The cypress ultramel clown. Oh, nice. I did not see that. I don't think that's got to be nice and bright, huh? Oh my god, he's gorgeous. Yeah. Is this glow? Yes. Yeah. Who uh who made that one if I can ask?

Yeah. Miguel. Oh, nice. Okay, cool. Yeah, you're not going to go wrong there. That's We hatched out a couple cypress ultimel. And then like maybe a couple months later, he posted that. And I messaged or I texted Danny because he was at work. I'm like, "I want this." He's like, "We don't need it." I'm like, "I want this." So, I we I really like how cypress looks with Ultramel. So, that's kind of like a new addition for us.

Yeah, you guys have been doing cool stuff with um, I don't I'll mix up which one it is, but some bell complex genes in Ultramel and like the result is really, really cool, but I feel like the risk doing, I mean, it's not quite like the pastel label, but but a lot of people avoid or have avoided those genes like crazy in the past. Was that something you had seen and you were like inspired to recreate or was it just something that you were like, well, it's in the mix. I got to go, you know, we'll see what happens. Or how did that come about?

I think at first we were like, uh, not really huge fans of like Mojave or Lester into the Ultramel, but like as we started seeing like combinations with multiple codeoms in it, we're like, "Oh, this is actually kind of cool." And, you know, we really like the dark side of Ultramel. And then, you know, seeing those combinations that we produce or, you know, or saw on Morph Market or Instagram or whatever, it's like, okay, let's let's try this out and see how we can make it different or better or just make it our own.

But you you mean like Bell jeans overall in Ultramel or like just overall in your collection in ultra?

Well, I guess both, but Ultramel specifically. I Yeah. So, I I you know, I'll tell you what, in the beginning, I was not a fan of any like light jeans in Ultramel. Like, I did not wear any light jeans. I wanted everything dark. Like everything dark. And then like I seen like what uh um Marshall Marshall Mendes. I'm not f I don't know. Yeah. Red uh Red Mountain Herbs. Okay. But he got he's like he's that stuff with the red stripe. Like he starts seeing like all these like lighter like jeans in it. Then you start seeing the colors and with the cypress and I was like, okay, that's where you get all these oranges from and all these other colors from. So like I think it really starts to bring some more contrast and then you can work both sides of it too.

Yeah. And when you say, what do you mean by work both sides of it?

Uh, darkening and lightening or or what did you mean? Yeah, if you want to just do just all light dark jeans where you just get that just like, I don't know what color you want to call it, just that dark purpley. Yeah. And then the yellows or you can do where you get like the pinks and oranges and lavender colors. Yellows. Yeah, those.

Well, like I said, the ones and I can't remember the specific combos, but the ones that I had seen with the with the bell complex jeans would they would just like glow. Like they look like neon lights, man. I was amazed at how they looked. So, but it occurred to me. I was like, "Yeah, that's the stuff that everybody was like, "Yeah, get that out of your collection. You don't even want to have that in there." Right. And I was one of those, too. But then you start to see some of these combos and I was like, "Oh, okay. It looks really good."

So, has anybody and I'm sure you wouldn't purposefully do this, but has anybody like what happens with an Ultramel Bell? Do we know?

I think it's it's just got the it's got the uh I think the ice, right? You can tell by the eyes. Just the redder eyes. Yeah, I believe so. On the other day, more still white, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Still all white. You're not getting any cool breakthrough?

No, not that I've seen, though. Yeah. Be kind of cool if it was like just this all peach snake, you know? That'd be neat. But you might get a little maybe you get like that shadow of a pattern or something on that, you know, some bells kind of like you see that depending on how many jeans are in there. Definitely. Yeah. And like the uh what is it? The super Mojave that get kind of that purplish hue to them, you know? Yeah. I guess you could. Yeah. I don't know. I have the mystic potion. Like say I'm not going to be the guy that does that, but I don't.

Don't we? For what? That one of the Mojave to the Mojave. The double head to the double head. Didn't we do one pairing? No. Oh, okay. Something else. Just kidding. So, yeah. Like I said, I'm not going to be the guy to chase it down. And not because not because I'm not curious, but it's just like we talked about the time that's involved and everything. So, uh

Oh, look at this. You got the uh the uh compatriate there. Uh, John is from uh he's from Azores, actually. Um, he's in the Patreon as well, so I know I know John pretty well. I won't I will not um massacre the uh uh authentic pronunciation of his first name, so I'll uh I know how it's spelled, but I we won't uh we won't dive into that. But John's a good good guy. Um, sorry.

So, what uh what jeans got you going? Like, is there anything like super exciting on the horizon that you're just like, "Man, I got to I got to try this." Or you haven't seen it in your uh in the works before or like there had to be something in in in the past couple years that you were just like, "Oh, man. All right, that's that's what I'm going to go look after."

I don't know if it's a specific one, but like I think it's just like working the combo. So, it's like the two together, right? So, you kind of consider that one. So, you get that look together. So, like chocolate, cypress, blackhead, uh, what's another one? The black pastel that we did, right? Yeah. And then even like even simple as black pastel enti, too. I mean, I know that sounds just real simple, but I mean, that and you could, you know, I mean, you can have that and you can have uh uh blackhead, you know, and cypress. So, that's two. So, it's a double super, right?

Is Oh, is Blackhead and Cypress uh Aelic?

Blackhead and Ini, right? Okay. So, there's a lot of ways to do it, too. I got to study up on those. Like, I have a lot of those in my collection, and I don't I don't remember all of the all the AI combos. It's it's I know some, but not all of them, especially in that that complex with. So, Blackhead is in that same cinnamon uh enti? No, no. No. So, Blackhead and Blackhead is in the spider complex, right? So, there's Blackhead, Bongo, Spider, uh, I think Hidden Gene, Walnut, Chocolate, I say Cypress already, right? I'm sure I'm missing something, but yeah, those are all spot. Yeah, spot nose. Spot. Yeah.

But then, okay. So, you But weren't you just talking about Blackhead and Ini?

Well, I'm just saying if you were if you were to like you're asking like what like new genes was not really new genes, just working like Aelic combos together as like, I guess if you want to call that a gene, right? So, like you could work Blackhead and Cypress and Blackhead and Ini, I mean, in uh black pastel together to make it a double super, right?

I gotcha. I gotcha. Yeah, because those are first, they're cool looking and they they they help each other, but then they're just even more super powerful breeders after that as well, right? So, if you have a female or male, like

That can you can keep that around for a long time, right? And if it's head, you know, if it's head or double head something else, like that could last a long time, you know? Yeah. Yeah, that's a good point. And, um, I'm sorry, I'm trying to follow these in my head. Nine, nine different questions, nine different, nine different directions on that. So if you did, if you had the thing with combos and the same with supers, is unless you breed them to the same things, you can't, you can't reproduce them though, right? No, you can only pass on one of them. Yeah. Yeah. So there's a limitation to it, too. Right. Right. Yeah. There was somebody I was trying to, I was talking to locally here. By the way, Ryan, thank you very much for the, uh, the tips. I found what's amazing and thank you, audience. I got rid of the ads on YouTube and people stepped up with the super chats and, like, it wasn't like YouTube was paying me much money anyway. Like, there's been no drop off in income since I turned off the ads. So guys, thank you very, very much. I'm really appreciative of, of that, you know, because I was talking to somebody here, uh, locally, who's stacking with, with like supers to hold back and they're like, "I'll always know what's going to happen." And I'm like, "No, that's just for the first generation because you can't reproduce those, right?" No, you can't unless you have it on the other side. Unless you, you know what I mean? Unless you had like, you breed it to a blackhead or a cypress, then you could produce a super again. If it, you know, if you just had one on the other side. Yeah. But then and and I fully understand the concept of supers and a lexis. I get that. But I was trying to say to the person because they're like, "No, no, no. You could, you could always know what was coming if you had a super to a super." And I'm like, "Yeah, but then you can't ever add anything new into it, right? Unless you add a super with something else on it, like with..." Yeah. I'm saying it could be limited. You can, you can kind of almost back yourself into a corner if you don't like, kind of see how you're doing it, right? Does that make sense? Yeah. At some point, you got to take the chances and and roll the dice on on adding new genes, just like we do with adding hats. Like we know that we know that the hats will be there, but you got to take that generation and and get them to advance, right? I think you're throwing me off by calling it a super. Well, acts. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it acts like a super, but I think when you say that, it's throwing me off. But I think you're making sense. Could you imagine somebody who's who's just like, "Ah, ball pythons would be fun. Let me see what this show's about." And they're like, "These people are insane. Screw that." And yeah, we're gone. We're out of here. Um, on breed, so on breeding, do you, do you guys take into account at, like, I wouldn't say any market forces because we're all living the market forces, so you always have to take those into account, but like, um, like for example, bananas. Are you ever like, "Hey, let's make 30 bananas this year to have at the show. We're going to meet new people. They might be pet sales, but there maybe they're people that will grow into what more of the stuff we do later." Or is it totally like your projects, your, your what you like, what your passion is, what you're after, or is there an overlap? I don't know. Um, I think there is an overlap. I mean, obviously we make what we like. Uh, some of the pairings we make what we like and the byproduct is like pieds or sure. I think we had a pairing that was like a banana, banana, head clown to clown, and that really wasn't for us. We wouldn't have minded holding something back from it, but we know bananas sell at shows. So like we have that, like albino pieds. Um, though we don't keep those, like that's like we breed those specifically for, you know, show sales or whatnot. Um, so we do a little bit of both, but I, I think this year we really shot for breeding for us. Um, and then the byproduct being like the pieds to sell at shows and whatnot. That makes sense. You know, it, and it honestly, I'm not just trying to, you know, agree with everything, but that's that's where I keep landing. Like the byproducts will like, like I do like bananas. So, I breed a lot of banana anyway. I'm not breeding just regular bananas with, you know, one or two codoms or that's not my goal. But if I end up with those, they're going to move and anything better than that, I'm either going to be interested in keeping or, you know, I can, I can ask more for it. So, I've always just sort of found that. But I try and I try and watch it though a little bit because I've, I've heard a lot of my friends and colleagues that are just saying, you know, "I have, I have all these animals. They're crazy killer breeder, um, ingredients and they're just not selling and and just people aren't into it anymore that way." And I'm like, "But maybe that goes back to the codom conversation of getting them in early so that there's always some like intrinsic visual value, you know?" Yeah, I think more investment stuff's hard to sell at the shows. Like certain stuff, like if you have somebody there looking, or if you have, if you have what's hot at the time, you're going to sell it no matter what. That's easy to sell, right? What's hot at the time, right? Sorry, there's a little one of those nads right here. That's okay. This thing's driving me crazy. Dang, I lost my trip. What sells investment doesn't. Oh, yeah. Personally. Yeah. I mean, some stuff will sell, you know, some other breeds and stuff, but you, you got to have stuff that, you know, especially if you're going to like a, a show that's based around like more pet stuff and you got to have stuff that people are going to buy, too. Like, and you got to be like mindful of your byproduct. A lot of people like, "I'm just going to sell my byproduct." And like, "Have you looked at your byproduct?" Like, "I don't think anybody wants to buy your byproduct, you know?" So, like, don't, you know, you can't just say like, "I'm going to sell my byproduct" because like, you, you're going to have a hard time if nobody wants it, right? That's, I mean, that's really where my thought is these days because it, it, it used to be when I first started, which was not long ago. I'm not at this. It was five years, but you could sell almost anything and so you would try and shoot for the, the biggest craziest thing you could possibly sell because somebody would buy that and then the other stuff would get scooped up. And now it's almost like the, I wouldn't say it's the opposite, but like it's almost like where's the bottom? You had to make sure that you had that you're above that bottom. Like there's got to be going back to what we were saying, if there can be a super in the mix, or if you can be putting, uh, a visual to a hat versus hats to hats, because you're going to end up with stuff that just, it just sits. And I remember, I remember in the wine industry, I'd have these guys, you know, these wine reps come in and they would bring this amazing wine from this new producer that nobody had ever heard of. And I was like, "I'm going to spend 30 minutes at a table trying to sell one glass of this stuff when off the menu, I could sell 10 glasses of the other stuff." It's great. It's amazing. It's still not worth my time. I can't, I can't give up that much of my time. So, that seems to be like where my, my head's at these days. Yeah. I think there's still when we do pairings, too, like we're still very mindful of like what, like the, um, the byproduct's going to be. If there's pairings that we're doing just because there are specific animals we want and like, if we don't hit what we want, we'll like, you know, there's everything in there is not like it's going to be like, you know, wholesale stuff, right? But like, there's other projects where it's just like, well, let's just, we can pair it this way because like the byproduct's not that bad. We're still getting what we want, right? Like, you're not shooting for the moon on every single project. I think when you do and you're expecting a return on stuff, you're going to have a hard time, right? That's where people like, like are, I get, get disappointed, right? Because then like they shoot for the moon on every project. They're, they're relying on making money back and they're like, "Well, nobody's buying it." Well, yeah, because like the product that you have of the animals aren't what people want, you know? They're all like wholesale animals. Yeah. It's almost like the, the mirror image of the odds. We know like the, the very best thing you could possibly hit. There's the mirror image odds wise or the very worst thing that you could hit. And they're the even odds. And it's like the higher you shoot for, the more you have to remember on the other side as well and what you're going to do with those. Yeah. I don't think a lot of people look at, like you're saying, like the worst odds. Like because that, like when you look at the worst odds sometimes you'll be like, "Ah, I don't know if I really want to make that pairing because like I don't need that animal that bad, right?" Like maybe I'll wait till next year where I want to have a better female or male and I'll have better odds and I'll just have, you know, wait till then like and put this female to something better that I'm going to want to hold back this year. Right. Right. The rush. Yeah. And I, I think and obviously, uh, Charlie is massively helpful and important to the industry. It helps, but the animals still exist. Like, the odds are on a case by case basis. Sure, there might be some, some amazing results and things that defeat the odds, but over over a big sample size, the odds are undefeated. That's why they're the odds. So, like the animals are still going to be there. So, yeah, I'm working through this as I'm talking out loud. I'm like, this is an aha moment for me. Like, what's the, what, what's the worst I'm willing to deal with? Because they're just, I mean, even I don't know about your experience right now, but but like you say, it, I mean, the buyers are really selective. People are really watching their money. I understand that and I get it. Um, and and I think it's on us to produce like really good stuff that that people want to see. And maybe a triple hat to a triple hat isn't the right way to go about these things because no matter how much shed testing you do, you're still going to have the animals that miss because they're getting created. Yeah. Yeah. I don't, I don't know what you're going to be really impressed when you were like, "What was I going to say?" And she was like, "Wow." This is, I was like, "Yes, that is fantastic. Go ahead. I forgot." I don't know what you were gonna say. It's so like, because you know in your head you're thinking about everything and then you're like, you forget it. But remember, I'll remember it after like three hours later. I'm like, "Ah, now I remember. Now I remember what I was going to say to him." Um, yeah. So, I mean, but that goes back to some of the, like I say, that that conversation we had on the phone one day when we were talking through like what happens when you hit the doubles or the triples, but there's not the other pieces in it is really when I'm thinking of all right, here's some long odds. I'll forego the long odds to get the guaranteed codoms in it, even if it's another season or two, just because I have higher odds of hitting cool stuff that's pretty cool versus like the cool thing, you know? So, I just remembered right now. Okay. Uh, so there's the thing. A lot of people don't want to buy hats anymore. I think that's the thing. Like, and if they do want, if they do buy hats, it's got to be like worth it. I don't blame them either. Like, you're, you're, those odds you're fighting against, right? So people want better animals. So if you're just, if you're just producing like clutches just to make hats for sale, like it's really hard to sell them unless it's like you said, something that's super hot or it's got these codoms that you can't find anywhere, right? Yeah. Do you find, um, or or maybe you don't want to give away strategies on, do you find it easier if something's a hat, just to list what's known or visual and not even bring it? I mean, forget genes like caramel or whatever that have breeding problems. Like, we would want to let somebody know about that. But like, for example, if I, I've got that normal double hat male, I'm not going to explain to somebody what all the, like, they're going to walk away before before I get through explaining what that means. I mean, I just list it as a normal. But like, do you have, say you're working on a clown pie project and you hit a cool clown that's that's it's a mediocre clown, but it's het pie. I don't know. Just something along those lines. You find it just easier just to list it what it is or I don't know any any experience in that area. We did that. I think was last year we had like a double hat lavender pied clutch or something or pied hat lab. And I think we just left off like the lavender part because, you know, some people didn't understand like it was more shows. I don't think we really did it at like MorphMarket. I think on MorphMarket we because we list caring, we put everything. But for shows, like, you know, the pet people don't care. Like, you know, obviously like if someone's like, "Oh yeah, would this be good to breed?" We're like, "Oh, hey, you know, it's also het ultra male or whatever." Like, "Oh, okay, cool." You know? So, yeah, we'll tell them after every time. But I, I don't know if it almost like it's almost a deterrent sometimes, right? Because they see all this on there and they're just like, they're just looking for a pet and they're like, "What is all this?" And then like, then you start explaining to them and then they get that glaze over their face and you're like, "I just lost." They don't, they just want to like talk about the snake, right? So, it's just like, yeah, sometimes it's easier just to sell it as a pie, right? Well, and that's kind of my point. And I think like I think that we, I'll say me, but I'll say us as an industry, like we can make people feel dumb over trying to like educate too much when like I think we forget to just keep it simple. And that happens now. You could walk into a guitar shop and be like, "Man, I just want to play four chords." And the guy's like, "Well, it's this this wood and this this, uh, you know, stainless steel frets and this frequency." And you're like, "Never, I'm good." Because you're going to feel dumb trying to keep up with the conversation because you don't understand any of it. Not you personally, but the person might not. And so, like, I'm guilty of it. And I catch myself at shows wanting to be like, "Yeah, but here's why. It's even cooler." And I'm like, "You get so excited." Yeah. And then next thing you know, they're like, "Oh, we're going to walk here." And you're like, "Ah." like they just heard a pet. Like they just want to talk about it. Like, what do I feed it? And like, what do I keep it in? Like, you're talking all the genetics, all this crazy stuff, and you're like, it just needed to be like, "That's an amazing animal. How can I help you take care of it and make this your like, it like it's too much." And I find myself doing that sometimes. So, like, one of the things in my mind, uh, and especially as I dabble in trying to reach, you know, new, uh, new horizons of of doubles or triples, there's going to be those byproducts. And I'm like, like, you want to tell people so much, but sometimes you just got to let them enjoy it as it is for for what it is, which really is probably how we all got started in this. Just going, "Damn, that looks cool. What, that's cool. What's that cost?" Yeah. What's that cost? Okay, cool. Either I got the money or I don't. It's cool. So, I think about that a lot. That's that's something that I, and or another, you know, same example with my career with with wine. Like, how many people are like, "No, I don't want to go to old wine tasting. I feel like an idiot talking to these people." Like, I just want to drink and it tastes good and I catch a little buzz, you know? So, um, yeah, it can, it can all be, um, it can all be too confusing. Speaking of, how's the, how's the, uh, show scene there? Uh, in the recent past been good? I mean, lately we've just been doing super shows. We just haven't had enough animals to be able to like make it worth doing the smaller shows locally. So we've just been doing all the super shows. So just Anaheim and, um, Pomona, but next season, I mean, this season we'll probably with so many animals, we're going to need to do shows like more shows. Make it worth it. Like you got to, like you got to really look at the show and see what you got and like look at how far it is. And I don't think people calculate all that before they go do a show. Yeah. Well, I hadn't, I didn't have it on my notes to jump in on that, but yeah, you're exactly right. Like the hotel, the time away from home, you guys have kids. Uh, if you, you know, um, I feel bad. I don't think about it. I figure when I'm gone, Kelly's just got the day off. Well, she's got the three dogs, our son, and it's her one day off of work. Like, she's like, "Yeah, that's nice of you." And I'm like, "Well, I'm working." And she's like, "Well," and I'm like, you know what I mean? So, I mean, there's there's all those considerations, but yeah, it's really easy. I love the local shows and I would do them. I would do them every weekend locally just to build, uh, a customer base in a big, big metro area like we have in Minneapolis. But when you start talking hotels or time out on the road or the winter time, man, traveling three, four hours after you've been vending 11 hours in the dark, man, that's not safe. And and with the cold temps with the snakes. No, it's just not. So, yeah, that's a lot to, a lot to think about. Do you, where are you selling? So, if you're only doing like the super shows, where are you selling or where are you getting most of your sales from? MorphMarket, Instagram, word of mouth with, like, do you keep like customer lists of who's into what? What's, what, what works for you? Mostly MorphMarket. Some few here and there on Instagram, but majority through MorphMarket. No more Craigslist. No. Okay. Yeah. Well, we've graduated. We, I looked back in my notes from the last show and it's like Chick-fil-A, uh, parking lot deals. I was like, "No, we're we're done with that." I'm not bringing. I wasn't going to bring that up tonight. You did, though. So, you got to start somewhere. Don't be ashamed. You know, everybody thinks that you got to start like you got to start. It's okay to only have four or five snakes. Like, you know what I mean? Everybody wants to have like a big old rack and like just take your time. There's no rush. Well, yeah. And that goes to like a little bit of what we were just saying at the shows. It's the same mindset. Like you don't have to have everything. It doesn't have to be overwhelming. It doesn't have to be a job. You don't have to have a podcast on Tuesday nights for years. Like, you don't have to do all that stuff to really enjoy it. And I had to have told the story, but there, there was the, there was the Chick-fil-A time, but there was the Dollar General time when when the deal was going down, the Dollar General was getting robbed. And I didn't know that. And like the bandits came running out. Wow. Me and the D. And they're like looking at us what we're doing with two snakes in the front because I had parked right at the front door because I knew the camera was right there. So I'm like, "Well, if somebody's going to rob me, at least they'll be on camera, you know." And these robbers are coming out and they had stolen like shovels and trash cans. I, it's a dumb stuff to steal, you know. And they're looking at us with snakes. And here comes the cashier. Stop these sons of She threw a shopping cart at them to try and get them to stop. So anyway, those days are behind me, but they were fun. Like, you can find good stuff out there. Yeah, I still, I have that. That was a female candino. I still have that girl. I still, she's in the rack. I still have that one. Forever memories. Yeah, I'll probably, I've told the story enough when I when I sell her, I'll be like, "That's the Dollar General robbery." Like, "I bet I could get like an extra $50 for her just from the story." You know what I mean? People be like, "Oh yeah, I want that one. That's the one that I want." Yeah. Uh, all right, let me take a break. Let me pay some bills. When I come back, I want to talk about, uh, how you guys balance, uh, family, uh, being obviously married and have the business together, uh, relationships in the industry, all that cool stuff. We'll get into that stuff in just a second. Uh, guys, if you haven't checked out, uh, Redline Shipping, please do. Uh, for me, the difference, the differentiation is the support before, during, and after the shipment. Um, they're going to help you get your animal where it needs to go. They've got decades of experience, uh, working with FedEx and getting animals delivered safely. I have to say, I can't commit to this. This isn't anything that that Redline has communicated to me. Um, but I just, I bought two labels today and I was pleasantly impressed with the pricing. I was like, hm, I feel like something's changed. So, I don't know. Check it out. Go price it out. Go experience the, um, customer support and especially if you need equipment or insight. Uh, we're getting into hot shipping season, uh, temperature-wise, hot. So, anyhow, be safe with the animals. Check out Redline Shipping. Use a promo code proper five. Get yourself five bucks off your next shipping label. We mentioned them a little bit earlier, Charlie@shedtesting.com. Um, just, I feel like I missed the boat. Like, there's two players in the industry and they're killing it, man. I love it. I love Charlie's story. He figured it out. He is, uh, developing, researching, and creating his own genetic tests for new genes. Uh, genes that are new genes that are active right now are Lace, Monarch, and Hurricane. And I believe that the Monsoon, uh, has been announced that it's a, is it available? Do you know, Renee? I should have, I should have done my show. Monsoon is it's out. Yeah, it's out. I, I saw the thumbnail, but I was like, does that mean that they're about to release it? Uh, Monsoon is out as well. So, go check that out. There's over 32, uh, ball python genes, uh, that you can get tested using shed samples. If you don't know what I'm talking about, you take the shed of your animal and you go to Charlie's website, shedtesting.com. You select the gene that you want to test it for. You pay him a nominal fee and then he tests your animal and he tells you if it indeed has that gene or not. Uh, VPI, Zanthic, Wookie, Sunset Clown, Puzzle, Ultramel, Zebra, lots more, Yellow Belly Complex, like I say, Lace, Monarch, Hurricane, and Monsoon are live now on that. Reagan Renee, Royal Pythons. That's Charlie Ryan. He's over in, I believe it's Cherry Hill, but he's in New Jersey for sure. Um, Charlie is a professionally trained scientist. He keeps his, uh, lab protocols in his home. I've seen how he handles his animals and he tracks data. It's incredible. Kryptons, DG, G-stripe, Candy Pie, Clowns, single, double, and triple ingredients. Go check out Charlie. He's also the, uh, defending undefeated, uh, 15 minutes of lame champion currently. So, Reagan Renee Royal Pythons. How about this? I get to cut a promo on you guys, too, while you're sitting here. We got Portuguese Pythons front and center. That's Danny and Renee Roachcha out in Chino, California. Go check them out. Uh, you've heard us talk tonight about, uh, singles, doubles, triples. You've heard us talk about Ultramel dark genes, Ultramel brightening genes. Now, uh, sounds like there will be Cypress, Ultramel in the very near future. Let me check my absolute notes. Ultral and Puzzle, Ultramel and Clown, Ultral and Pie, Hypojects, True Ghost, uh, projects as well. Go check out their MorphMarket. There's a reason they sell a lot of snakes on MorphMarket. There's, this is really nice animals. So, nice job, guys. Thank you very very much for the support. Uh, Trevor at Ball Labs in Aurora, Colorado is working with any gene that he can get his hands on. He loves, uh, kind of revisiting genes that have maybe been forgotten or put away or whatever it might be. Um, but along with that, Puzzle, Ultram Clone, VPI, Tristrip, Monsoon, Zebra, and Sunset. He's also a licensed rodent breeder in Colorado. It's getting harder and harder to, um, breed rodents and animals in general legally in Colorado. Trevor's doing it the right way. He's inspected. He's licensed. He's approved. So, I think that those practices probably fall over into his snake production. Great guy out in Aurora. Check out Trevor at Ball Labs. Last but not least is Chris at BNS Reptilia, the original advertising sponsor of Proper Royals. We're still, uh, friends, business associates years later. Um, Chris is my Timley business partner, vending partner in October. We own a couple animals together, which is pretty cool as well. He's BNS Reptilia. Reptilia because he deals definitely in ball pythons, but blood pythons, locality boas, colubrids of all shapes and sizes, pituous, those are bullsnakes, pine snakes, if you know what we're talking about there. And he can make sure that you are, uh, well, he'll let you know if it's legal in your area to own those snakes or what sort of, um, licensing you need or paperwork that you need on that. He's also the regional distributor of the Chipper, uh, Coco. So, you can reach out to Chris on any of those topics and thank you very very much to the sponsors to the audience. You guys literally keep the lights on and you keep us ad-free now. No interruptions on the replay or if you join in the middle of the show. There's no more of that. So, thanks to everybody. These are all people in our community that support our community and I'm just very, very thankful. So, thanks very much. Tonight we got Danny and Renee from Portuguese Pythons. Welcome back, guys. Thanks for, uh, sticking around. Oh, look at this. Lisa, thank you very much. Uh, wait a minute. I don't know what this means. We need a Minecraft Portuguese Pythons logo. That's my mom. Well, you could be nicer than that about your mom. Thank you, Lisa. I'm very thankful for the, uh, the five bucks for sure. I'm intrigued by that. So, I have a 13-year-old son. I have no idea what this means other than I hear Minecraft all day and I'm like, "Maybe we do need that." I'm always like, "How do I like, I'm just the old dude trying to get by. I don't know what this stuff means. Like, I don't want to become the antiquated dinosaur." So, yeah. All right. You guys working on one or not? What's Lisa's got plans? No, our son, uh, plays Minecraft. Loves Minecraft. Does Minecraft Legos, you know, we took them all to see the, um, Minecraft movie. So, yep. Yep. Okay. I don't know how to do any of it except the Legos. But, uh, if you, if you don't want to talk, if you don't want to discuss this, I would understand completely. But how old are your children? If I can ask, or if you like, say if you don't want to, that's okay. Oh, no. It's fine. Uh, our son is eight, Dylan. Uh, our middle daughter, Delilah, is six. And then our baby, Danny Joe, is three. Yes. Wow. Okay, cool. So I only have one and he's 13. And, um, these video games are like the dictators of our lives, man. I, I came to, there was a reason I got such, uh, healthy help in the snake room today. Uh, was basically because he gotten himself in trouble and it was either I was going to take a hammer to that Xbox or we could get this project done, do a little bit of work, and then we could both calm down and we could reconsider what we think is a nice balance of video games in our lives. So that's where we're at. That's where we're at today. Relatable. Very relatable. Well, I'm glad to know it's, I'm glad to know I'm not the only one. Oh my gosh, man. Like, I want them to have nice things, but these thing, these things are just designed to be like, like dopamine addiction stations, man. They are, they are brutal, man. H I don't know. Maybe I was the same. I don't think I mean, I had an NES, that's all. I mean, I don't feel like Mario 3 was doing the same thing to me, but maybe it was. I don't know. Maybe. Yeah. So tell, uh, tell us where you guys are at. How does the, how does the snake home life, uh, I think there's still work outside of the snake life. How does that all balance? What's that look like for you guys? What's where is that? Well, Danny's still working full-time. Yeah. Um, I'm still full-time with the kids and the snake room. Uh, I guess social media. I'm kind of slacking a little bit on, but social media, uh, cleaning, and he does all the feeding of the snakes, but I do majority of the cleaning. Um, and what else? Social media here. What else? Just the email and everything. Oh, yeah. Emails. So, like all the emails, text, anything. That's mostly me. Um, and then the kids. Our oldest, Dylan, he goes now he goes to all the shows with us. Uh, helps out. Yeah. Uh, the other two still too young, I think, to be entertained enough. So, yeah. Well, and it could be a handful if you're, I mean, as you know, but I mean, if you're trying to engage customers and work and babysit at the same time, like that's, it's really hard. It's, it's, it's one thing if it's sort of a family weekend hobby. It's another thing like, just in the screenshot there, there's there's lots of money that, I mean, that's a serious operation. So, I mean, I, I get it. Yeah, that's, um, um, now you both, uh, generally vend the shows, though? Yes. Yeah. Okay. So, you got a little help with the, uh, kids while you are out vending, though? Yeah. Yeah. So, um, my parents live in Utah, but whenever they're out here, they help with the kids. Uh, most of the time in, like, for the super shows, they're very local, so they'll go to my grandma's, which is like only 20 minutes away. Oh, cool. And, um, we haven't really done many out of state shows, so haven't really had to think about that too much, but yeah, we have help with the girls. Yeah. Yeah. Um, just because I'm such a nerd and actually people that are hanging out this late are probably just the same level of nerds. What, um, tell me like, what's your, uh, what's your substrate or if you use substrate, and then like, what's your cleaning routine? Uh, we use Pro-Coco. Um, I clean the babies, wholebacks, and males, Thursday mornings, get up early before the kids. Um, and then on Saturday mornings, we get up together because it's his day off from work and we do all the adults together. Oh, cool. And it's, uh, um, I, I would assume with Coco, it's spot clean. And then when do you, uh, how often do you change the tubs or or obviously sometimes you can't help but to change the tubs, but on like a normal rotation, what do you look for as far like, we in the beginning we used to do like a full change out where it's like it went to like every month we do a change out, then it's like that's just too much and like every couple months and it's like it's, I think it's just, it's just too much. So when we do spot cleaning, like if they, if it's soiled in the area, we'll just remove like a huge amount from that area basically and just throw some more in. If it looks like you can tell, like you can tell when coco is starting to look like the color will change a little bit, like, and if the, the smell is not there, and if it's not smell like coco, like usually we just change it out. You can tell it's, it's interesting you bring that up. I try and, and like I can't explain it to people. It look, you can see the look. You can actually, like the color's different and the smell's different. Yeah. I mean, the smell specifically, and I don't even mean just coco. Like, I could walk into my room and know if something's off immediately. And I'm not talking about if something pooed or whatever. I'm talking like, if there's an unhealthy snake, if somebody didn't eat, like, I know that there's days I have to go through every tub to find out what's off in there. And there's days I walk in and I'm like, "This is going to be an easy day in here. There's no nothing wrong in here." Uh, it's, it's really amazing. And so when you said that about the color and the smell, it's like, "Wait a minute. That's, yeah." Um, I got you on that. I like, I say, I don't know if you heard at the very beginning, I'm, it's from my restaurant days and and having studied bacteria and contagions and cleanliness and blah blah blah, which is different for food that you're going to put in your mouth versus versus the enclosure. Um, but forever I've, I've just kept things on on paper towels and had the bins. Soon as there's soil, swap it out, fresh bin, go wash the other in the sink. And it's, it's a lot of work. And now, like I say, I've started to put, um, uh, using Aspen. Um, I don't know, it still feels kind of weird. Like, I'm, I just today got there now 100% of the room is on Aspen. So I'll see how the next couple weeks go. Maybe I'll feel like a new man. Be like, man, this is what I've been missing out on my whole life here. Um, and then, uh, let me see. Oh, some other, like I say, just some other, uh, nerdy logistics stuff. What do you guys use for like labeling, tracking? Do you have different, uh, clips? Do you have different color codes? What do you do for that stuff? Well, for, for she'll explain all the things, but first, like, I, the whole thing with our system is like, I want somebody to be able to, whoever's like, one of us to walk in the room and be able to know like who didn't eat, like what's going on. Like, you can tell a lot just by just looking at a tub, right? What color dot is on it, whatever labels on it. So that's like, so it's like real universal. So when the kids are helping us, you know, every, yeah, there's just like a standard, like, uh, system, right? So it's easy for anybody to come in and read it, whether it's breeding season, whether if you want to know if it's like feeding or whatever. The only thing I track for feeding is just that week's feeding. Like I don't track anything after that besides the babies, like the new. Um, so what's on our tubs? It's just like a little business card and I just formatted it with a couple lines. So, the adults are very simple. It's just what they are and either like their ID number or where we got it from. Um, same with the males and wholebacks. Our babies have like a little grid. Um, so he can log the feedings, you know, for when they go on sale, like, oh, we know this one's already had X amount of meals. Um, as far as like the feeding, we have like here is like a magnet tag, so he'll move it. Um, because we have the ARS with the magnets stick right on. And then clips so if I'm looking for sheds from FE, like the pre-lay sheds, like I know to go check. And then like these little white tags, um, are for when they shed and so I know when I'm going to be looking for a clutch. And we have like little hang tags for when like a male is in with a female. So it's very standard, uh, for us, very basic. We don't use any like a husbandry pro or clutch. I use, um, numbers on my my computer because I'm just very old school, I guess in that way. Well, it seems like a lot for me. I was gonna ask, uh, well, two thoughts. One, like, every, every room, every snake room that I've ever walked into has its own like codes. Like, even mine, like I was trying to explain to my son today. He's like, "Well, the clips on the lips." I was like, "You could just take those off. Those don't mean anything." He's like, "Why do you put those on there?" And I said, "Well, that just meant that there was a rodent that was in there and I've double checked and it's out. I just didn't go through and take them all off." I said, "But the ones on the left side of the card, that means that those are the ones that haven't eaten. You have to leave those on." And he was like, "These clips look the same." I'm like, "Well, they are. They're in different places, though." You know what I mean? And so anyway, and then, and then, uh, you mentioned earlier in the show like you have, I think you said 40 something that like, you know, are set. So, I put blue painters tape on on so I can make the notes on the painters tape. And I'm like, "Okay, so if the blue ones, I was like, don't just leave them alone. They're happy. We're not changing them." And he was like, "What? This is all, this is all a little..." I was like, "I know exactly. I could walk in here and see exactly what it means." So, I understand that. Uh, but Renee, you brought up a good point on, or a good topic I had forgotten a little bit about until you, you just brought it up and and I made a note. Your, uh, like they're not clutch cards, they're like new owner cards. They're like new, like a new, like snake owner cards. You send all the history of the breeding or the the parent, not all the history, but the parents, uh, the pairing, uh, the individual numbers, and then what else is on there? It's really nice high gloss postcard. At least that's what I got. I maybe only had like 10 of them, but I suspect you do that for everybody. Yeah, I did initially and then this last season we ran out like halfway through and I just never got around to doing it. But it had, what we thought their morph was, their clutch ID, their parents, and then their hatch date. So, we did that, but yeah, I ran out and didn't make more. I kind of blew it up on that this year. For what it's worth, it was a nice touch that I really liked. And, uh, when I was, so I use Husbandry Pro, but when I was entering everything into Husbandry Pro, it was really nice to have it all right there. And then I admit, then I threw the card away. I was like, it's an, I got it in the digital, you know, ether. I don't need it anymore. But, um, it was a really nice touch and you guys were great. And, and again, maybe it's because we're, we have a business relationship, but you guys called me after you got some shed tests and I didn't even know that you were testing and you were like, "Hey, that those animals that you got from us, I don't know if I can't remember, it was the parents or whatever, but hey, there, there's hurricane in the mix in there." I'm like, "Yes." And I'm like, "That's" and you know, you could see it if you know it's in the mix and then you see it, you're like, "Okay, now I got it." If you don't know that it's in the mix, you're like, "Ah, am I just trying to see that?" That, but when you know it's in the mix, you're like, "All right, that's cool. I'm going to, uh," and it was one of those, I was already breeding them anyhow. It didn't really matter, but it's a, it's a nice addition to have. So, you guys did a great job on that is what I was trying to say on that. Yeah, we were lucky enough to have to, I think let two or three customers know this season, this past season with shed testing that the parent proved out to be something. And so, that was kind of cool to go back because I, I do keep pretty good records as as far as who where our animals go. I know it kind of falls off a little bit at the shows, but you know, for like our, like MorphMarket sales, I can track that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, honestly, I think that's, I think it's incredible because if you're selling hundreds of animals to be like, "Well, let me go see who has the progeny of this animal that we just tested." That's a lot of work. And it, it actually, something that came up when I was talking with my son and I was like, I was trying to explain to him what CRM is. He's like, "Yeah, thanks, Dad. I appreciate it." But customer relationship management. But, uh, you talked about emails earlier. Is that just emails like responding to inquiries, or do you, do you run like email announcements to buyers? Like, I think, I think in tough market, email list kind of deal. No, we don't do an email list. Just as far as like inquiries or, you know, like I do all the ordering of like Pro-Coco and, I mean, whatever needs ordering. It's basically me, uh, you know, ordering the deli cups or ordering, um, I guess Pro-Coco. He does the rat feed, but, you know, it's pretty much the logistic stuff is me. Yeah. Uh, I like the, as I don't, I don't like the root cause of it, but I like the idea that like challenging times make us really, really think about what we're doing and how we can do it better. So, like, it's been in my mind. I'm like, if I would just apply myself, I could look up 80% of the people that have bought animals from me. They're ball python owners. They seem to be happy with my product and my service because I didn't hear any complaints. So, these are hot leads, proven buyers, and I'm sitting here going, "Not much is moving these days." Well, like, those are the thoughts that go through my head when I'm washing tubs. But I was like, maybe I need to, I need to find the time to to to get back to that. And I'm coming to the conclusion of a massive project that's taken an incredible amount of time. So, I'm going to have some, some business time freed up where I could get into that. So, when you said emails, I was like, I'm going to ask her about that. I mean, I guess I could do something like that, but I don't know. I'm just, I'm never one. I don't like big blast emails, but then at the same time, sometimes you can like find like a deal in that email type, like, I don't know. Well, and I'm with you. I don't like spammy emails. That's not my thing. But

If, like, say, last year's people that bought from the Ultra Male clown, you know, hat stuff that I got. Mhm. This year, when I do the next evolution of those pairings, maybe I would reach out to them and be like, "Hey, I know you bought this last year. Just want to let you know or give you first dibs or yeah, whatever it is." You know, you could be a little bit targeted of of like, "Hey, you liked this. Maybe you're going to love this kind of thing." You know, it's I do to an extent. I believe good selling is good service. Now, it can get annoying just blasting people, but that that's my thought on that anyway. Not that I'm doing it. I wish I was. I need to listen. I need to listen to this tomorrow and be like, "All right, Adam, there's your new project. Get to it." They got my wheels spinning, too. So, good. All right.

Uh, I don't I didn't mean it in a way that you that I needed to get them spinning. I think you guys, you guys do great. Um, that's Charlie at Reagan Renee. Uh, I agree. A good workspace should speak to you. It helps effectiveness and efficiency if you're comfortable. Like one of the last properties I ever worked at, the GM was amazing. He said, "I want your chefs dressed impeccably. If they can't afford good knives, I want to have I want our house knives to be professional, top caliber." And I'm like, "That's a lot of money." He goes, "They're either going to respect it and love what they're working with and put out amazing stuff, or we'll know right away that they're not for us and they'll have to go." It was amazing. I I I still love that thought. So, really nicely organized behind you is what I see. Top-notch equipment.

Um, I I'm guessing maybe you did, but I'm guessing you didn't go straight in all the cards just for your show tonight. I guess I'm assuming that that's how you operate. Yeah, I'm not going to lie. When you first put them on, I made a template so I could put it on the tub and put the card right in the middle. That's stuff. That's how bad it is. That's That's how bad it is over here. Yeah. No, I think but that to me is the stuff that I love the mindset that that that we don't like our experiences aren't in vacuums. You don't do one thing one way and then do another thing with no regard for like like your habits and your personality is is is probably overlapping uh uh you know, snakes life work. It might be. I see I'm touching some she knows already. I'll come in here and it'll be like a like one of the cards is like messed up and I'm like, "Can you change this one, please?" Oh, OCD. No, I I look, they're live animals. I think those attentions to details are attention to details are uh are are very cool. And if you're going to do it, do it right. Like, what's the point of doing if you're just going to do it half-ass? Yeah. And and I think that speaks to a brand and personal pride. And um, I don't know, maybe it's cheesy. Like I don't know about you guys, but like there's times when I talk to my son and I'm like, "Do you know what your last name is? You're better than that." Like that's what we, you know, like I don't know. I do I do some of that sometimes.

So, uh, for people that don't know, let everybody know where can they find you guys? Where's the no next show coming up? Where can they find you on the internet? How do they get in touch with you? All that good stuff. Uh, you can get in touch with us by Instagram or Morph Market. Um, also email um, all that info is either in our Instagram or our Morph Market, both in the bio. Um, we will be vending later this month at the Pomona Super Reptile Super Show, also known as the LA Pet Fair, uh, June 28th and 29th. Um, it's going to be a huge show. I hope if you're in Southern California, you want to make a trip out, you should come check it out. It's ginormous. Uh, birds, fish, um, a lot of reptile, like a d a lot of diversity in reptile. find pretty much anything you're looking for.

Is that the one at the new venue, too? I'm a little bit out of the uh world of the the scene. But like past year or so, it's still at the fairplex. Um, the reptiles still get the largest uh building, but then he Ramy added on the two um other buildings, the expo halls. Um Oh, wow. Okay. So, it's like a whole it's all fenced off, so it's like one big event, one ticket price for both days. And uh it's probably going to be a lot bigger this year than it was last year. And it was crazy last year. Yeah, last year. We have there's people that just came both days no matter what. And they're there all day long, too. Nice. Uh, when is that? I'm sorry. I know you said it's coming up, but when is that? It's uh June 28th and 29th. Oh, right around the corner. Coming up. All right. Very nice. Okay.

Um, so go check them out. Audience, if you missed where to get any of that, all their information is also right down below in the description. So, you can uh link into I I can't remember which one it is, but you'll get in touch with them through that uh that description as well. Um, shout out real quick to Black Lagoon. Black Lagoon Creatures. Yeah, it's amazing story. Oh, is Okay, nice. All right.

Um, very very specifically something I noticed today. So, I catch things when they're different or they're eye-catching like like we all try and name our brand like they're going to be these most aha things, but they did a really cool thing on and I don't know how they did it on Instagram. Like my thing just says proper royals and like the regular old, you know, whatever Times New Roman font or whatever and theirs has these little tiles that are different sizes. And at first I was like, I don't even know what that says. But there I am looking at it for 12 seconds realizing that it says Black Lagoon Creatures. and now here I am recognizing them and talking about them. So, nice hack, nice work. Uh, you you earned the shout out there and it sounds like they're good people if you're wearing a shirt that they made for you. Yeah, thank you.

All right, cool. Um, well, guys, thank you so much. Uh, I hope that you'll come back uh maybe before two years. Yeah, and I I know that didn't sound very convincing. Why I said maybe is maybe I'll come to you before two years. Maybe I'll get my butt out to California is what I would really like to be able to do. Um, I always have I always have visions of it and then I'm like, um, it's going to be really hard to get away for three or four days and then look Kelly square in the eye and be like, I'm going to LA for work, work, lots of work. I'll see you when I get back. So, but I do have it in I I it is in my mind. I know that the uh the January uh the January Pomona Pomona show uh is in January. Is that correct? Yeah. So June and January for Pomona and then this year the Anaheim one's in September. So you still have time to come to Anaheim. September. Oh no, no. Uh, I actually I think I looked at that. I think I actually have a conflict of a show that I've already got booked here. I think the Super Show I mean the Pomona one's big. Pomona one's bigger. Yeah. There's more people that come from out of state, too, as far as vendor wise. Yeah. Yeah. So anyhow, if I could get there, I got a few contacts that maybe I could do some work for as well. Like I don't know, maybe Red Line or Palm Street needs a representative. We could we could make it a little more legit work, you know, like Well, thank you all very much. Uh, look, all right, everybody's getting shout outs at the end. This is uh Andy Barnett. He was the uh best man in my wedding. Does not own any snakes, nor does he watch the show. I don't know what he's doing here hanging out tonight, but it's good to see you, Andy. Uh, we got to catch up soon, brother. Uh, we went to college together. All that good stuff, man.

Um, anyhow, thanks everybody. Uh, next week I believe it is uh Shane from Smalltown Exotics. If it's not, there's going to be a show. I say he's on the schedule, but I can't remember uh which order is which. So, I'll be back next uh Tuesday night, 8:00 PM Eastern. Danny, Renee, thank you all very, very much. I always enjoy hanging out with you. And uh stick around for just a moment. I won't keep you long. I know you got family to get to. Um, but uh thank you everybody. We'll pull up the exit. See you. is [Music] really