Transcription
All right. Are we ready for another question? Yeah. Bring it on. All right. This time we are Cindy Brell. Hi is Dr. Tyson Lew and Lord Nice. Cindy from Tualatin, Oregon. My question Oh, I like this. My question is consciousness is consciousness the result of quantum physics? Ha!
>> [laughter] >> What a great question. >> More people cuz we don't really understand consciousness and no one understands quantum physics. So you just get one of those to explain the other and we're all fine. Yeah. This is This is another great question. Thank you, Cindy. In fact, this is a question that I was asked like exactly word for word when I was at the American Astronomical Society meeting back in January. Um yeah, I I know I like I said earlier, I'm still feeling really good about that meeting. I really was. I mean, you you know, the world is on fire. I mean, things Oh, it's also in ice. Things are just messed up, but when I went there See what he did there, Chuck? The world is on fire and It's also in ice. Yeah. Yes, yes, yes, yes. I That was Robert Frost, everybody. I didn't invent that.
>> [laughter] >> But um when I was there and I was just with all the wonderful young people at the American Astronomical Society uh meeting presenting their research, asking questions, talking, being together, it just felt so good. It felt like uh the future is what matters, you know? We we not Things can suck, but that's only now. And and the world is in good hands. I I felt so good about that.
>> Not if I can help it. >> [laughter] >> But anyway, yes, uh this was asked a student of mine uh Now, Neil, you of course, you were even a a trustee a counselor of the American Astronomical Society. So you're you're deeply in into this society.
>> As were you. I mean, you were you were you were on the board as well for a while.
>> Correct. Yes, uh it's the
>> So so so people know the American Astronomical Society is the organizing group of professional astrophysicists in the country. That's right. And in fact, all of North America, it's it There are more members of it than the International Astronomical Union, uh which was the organization that amongst other things uh helped you demote Pluto, Neil. Don't blame that on me. Pluto had it coming. Pluto so had it coming, but that the official vote was the IAU. IAU, right. So the AAS is a great organization and And how many What how many is it up to? Uh 8,000 members. 8,000 members and there are 8 billion people in the world. That's right. So that makes us One in a million. If you do the math, one in a million. That's right.
>> [gasps] >> So it's very cool. And uh so many people there there were about 3,000 people there overall and so many of them were students, younger people, um and one of those folks had come up to me and said, "Hey, you know, um I remember hearing you guys talking about free will. And that made me wonder, is consciousness quantum? Is it quantum consciousness and is that why there's free will because there's uncertainty in the quantum realm that we can't pin down and so we can't determine what we're going to do at any given moment."
>> Interpret that uncertainty as free will. Possibly, right? Yeah. When we talked way back in the day, right? Um wasn't that long ago, but it feels like a long time ago about free will, we were actually asking ourselves, right? At what point do we say we don't know what's coming next, right? And if we the more and more science we've done about human behavior and physics and so forth, the more we think we know how determined the system is and we just have reached a boundary where we don't know. It could be all the way down at the quantum level. Now, there have been ideas about quan- consciousness for a long time tying to physics. In fact, uh Nobel laureate Roger Penrose had come up with a hypothesis with some of his colleagues decades ago suggesting that consciousness is sort of like the quantum spaces in between our synapses. And that is not why he got his Nobel Prize. That is not why. Clear?
>> [laughter] >> No. That That's a different thing. He got it for black holes. That's right. Uh but nevertheless, he very creative guy. He did all kinds of stuff about tessellations, mathematics, and things like that as well. And so he gave this particular hypothesis about about how we store information, right? The bottom line is, in my opinion, and I use that term a lot because, you know, I like putting things down to the bottom. We haven't yet defined consciousness. No. Mhm. Right? Um philosophers will and and I know you love philosophers, Neil. I mean, you embrace them and and you think that they're awesome. So
>> Yeah.
>> [snorts] >> So I'll quote philosophers
>> [laughter] >> as much as I can here that everything is conscious. It's just that different levels of consciousness that matter, right? Gary, let me ask you, when you play soccer, did you sometimes feel like the ball had a mind of its own?
>> Uh yeah, there were days, but basically I
>> [laughter] >> I worked I worked out that it was main mainly user error
>> [laughter] >> on my behalf.
>> Nice. Nice. Mainly just just mainly. Right.
>> Yeah. So so philosophers of consciousness sometimes do argue that the soccer ball does have its own consciousness, but it's at such a low level, right? Such a level that we cannot understand that the how hard it's kicked, whether the valve was affected or not, whether the wind is blowing, whether there's a spin, you know, things like that that fully explains how it moves. And that its own free will or its own consciousness has no effect. Well, then what good is it? Uh the soccer ball? Yeah. What good is it to have consciousness if it's of no of of no effect, zero agency, and zero influence on outcomes? The whole idea of consciousness is that you somehow can influence an outcome. Uh other than that, what good is it really? Well, I don't know. That's really great [laughter] point. Let's let If if you have this kind of consciousness, if even exists, right? Think uh we humans, I don't know. What what is something that we have that has no that serves no purpose and yet we have it and therefore it is part of who we are. An appendix. Ah, there you go. There you go. Um the fact that you have an appendix, does that make you different from when you have your appendix removed because it got infected? Mhm. Are you the same as you were before? Mhm. And if you aren't, what is it about removing that particular part of you? Is it that part's consciousness? That part's quantum effects? That part's physical effects that make you a different person? Now, do I have insurance or not? Cuz I live in America.
>> [laughter] [gasps] >> Uh you know, that that is uh Well, that's a good point. You can you can have There is obsolescence that is a part of us. So, you know, and I'm sure it served a purpose at some point and now it doesn't.
>> Right.
>> Co- Consider it on an even deeper level, right? Surgery isn't necessary. Our uh skin cells completely cycle through every month or so, right?
>> Everything that used to be the dermis, epidermis, and then it flakes off. Yeah, they slough off and it is completely true that none of us here at this meeting um have the same skin cells that we did A month ago. Maybe not even Yeah, maybe not even same muscle cells. Mhm. We have a lot of the same bone cells, a lot of the same brain cells, but a lot of them are gone now, right? But our consciousness continues. And in fact, our consciousness continues to grow because we continue to experience things, you and I. I think my consciousness is enriched and improved because I'm hanging out with you guys today, right? Give it time. Give it time.
>> [laughter] >> How does our consciousness continue given though our physical characteristics have discontinued? You know, the best evidence that nobody understands consciousness is how many books are written on the subject.
>> [laughter] >> Yeah, that's so
>> That's true for consciousness. Any book that says consciousness explains means no one really understands it. But it's worth thinking about, isn't it? Definitely. And so so so this is
>> Context, that's it on the consciousness shelf of the library in the bookstore, there's no end of consciousness books. But you go to the gravity section, there's like two books. Yeah, but one of them is big. It's thir- It's this is uh
>> [laughter] >> Thorne and Lyne- Lyne- Lyne- Wheeler
>> like another book. Yeah. Right. Uh so, but I'm just saying we're not continuing to rewrite a book on gravity because gravity is understood. So don't confuse the existence of a book that says something is explained as a statement of the state of the science behind it. I think that's a very good point. Uh and so this question that Cindy has about quantum consciousness, right? Is is that point. Can the quantum properties that are inherent in our brains or in our overall physical systems allow us to hold together something, what we're calling consciousness, that persists despite our physical changes being so radical? I hope so. That's all I can say is because that that is the greatest possibility that our consciousness will extend beyond our so-called life, you know, physical life. That is the greatest case to make that we could in some way go on, especially when you think about the fact that what the question before that, when we talk about entanglement and different dimensions, that maybe we could actually exist on a higher plane of being in another dimension because of quantum consciousness. And the only way we can find out, people, is go AHEAD AND DIE.
>> [laughter] >> THANKS. THAT'S GREAT [clears throat] ADVICE THERE. MARLO.
>> The I love the fact you end it with a laugh.
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