Transcription
But we, we are, we are here obviously as like, kind of an emergency episode because of what's going on. And I know you have some stuff that you heard whispers in the wind, if you will, about Iran. So we will get to that a little bit later, but I definitely want to start on the story of my lifetime, I think is what I would say at this point.
You and I have talked about it in the past on episodes with Epstein, and you know how they've slowly rolled out this case and people have found out information over the years, and now there's some files coming out and there's a lot of issues there. But I got to tell you, man, reading through these emails, sickening. There are so many things that in the past, people might have presented to me, random people with, let's say, no evidence that I was like, "Come on." I've done the same thing. That's been my response. Like, come on. You have evidence. Now, when you read it, are you like me where you're like, "Well, I can't rule this out anymore?"
I will say I've got a great friend, Ben Swan, terrific investigative journalist, who was laser-focused on Pizzagate. And Pizzagate always sounded so insane to me that I was like, "Come on, man. What are you doing? You're going to kill your career with this Pizzagate thing." First of all, the pizza place doesn't even have a basement where they're keeping kids, right? And this clown from North Carolina drives up with an AR-15 or whatever it was, AK-47, and shoots the place up. And then he can't find a basement where the kids are being kept as sex slaves, and he, you know, gives himself up. And then we see these emails last week about, you know, "Take a Viagra and then we'll go get some pizza and grape soda." Haha. It's, it's nuts. I can't believe it in some of these cases.
And the, you know, the, the, the codeword usage. The, the other thing, John, that's so sinister is it's almost like it was a giant, you know, [ __ ] you meme to everyone. Like the worst sadistic kind because you have a guy emailing from an account from an account called J E Vacation. Like, you can't even make this up. That's like what your grandpa would make on an auto AOL account back in 1999 when he wanted to be hit and make an email. You know what I mean? And they talk so flippantly, like forget the most sadistic stuff where they're talking about children and the awful things they're doing to them. But they talk so flippantly about the world, and it had me rethinking what George Carlin once said. I always quote it. Everyone always quotes it. "It's a big club and you're not in it." I think we have to fix the quote. It's a little club. And you're not in it. We didn't even realize this little club existed within the big club. I think that is fair.
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What do you think of what Tucker said about this revealing perhaps some sort of super government, like supra, where he said the people that you thought were the highest actually just work for the people who work for the people that are the highest? Isn't that the truth? I think he's on to something. You know, Tucker's another guy who has been very deliberate about all this. He was never one to jump on rumor. He was always one of the guys who demanded to see evidence before he took a position. And I think even he is shocked by what has been released. And you know, there are a million other little strings that haven't been pulled yet. Don't forget, there are still reportedly between three and 3.3 million documents that have not yet been released. That Pam Bondi has said won't be released. She's going to defy a bill passed 419 to 1 in the House and 99 to nothing in the Senate and signed by the president, and she's just going to say, "No, I'm not going to do what the bill commands me to do and release these documents."
Do you think she's saying that or that's coming from above her? It has to be coming from above her. It has to be. One of these little strings that I've been trying to focus on involves Kathern Remler, who was the Obama administration's White House counsel. 11,500 emails. First of all, what the [ __ ]? Like, does she do nothing all day long as the White House counsel other than chitchat with Jeffrey Epstein? Number one. Number two, there's one email that she sent him saying, "John Brennan, the CIA director, gave me the CIA's highest honor today. Pretty cool, huh? Or pretty great, huh?" And then she tries repeatedly to set up a lunch between Jeffrey Epstein and John Brennan. Why? To what end? And there's a bigger question here too, and that is what kind of judgment did these people exercise? We, this woman is supposed to be the president's personal legal advisor, his personal attorney. And this is what she's doing. And I have a theory that I'm confident about. Why would she be so close to John Brennan, of all people? Because every Tuesday morning at 7:00, John Brennan chaired the kill list meeting. And we know that the kill list committee was chock-full of attorneys, White House, NSC, CIA, DOJ, just to make sure that, yeah, you can legally go out and just kill these people this week, and then we'll meet up again on Tuesday and come up with another list of people to kill. She was on the kill list committee. I'm confident of it. So, she's either murdering people or she's chitchatting with Jeffrey Epstein. Again, what kind of judgment do these people have? And then where did she go? She became the general counsel at Goldman Sachs. At least they had the presence of mind to say, "You got to go." You can't survive this.
I will say this, they should have done that a few years ago. Ages ago, when it was, when it was first released that she was in touch with Jeffrey Epstein. You're absolutely right. That's right. And like, you know, there's just some, there's revelations of people that had stronger relationships to the point that, you know, they were personally in his life. And I want to come back to Rumbler in a minute because that's a big story. But like Lawrence Krauss, I've said this a million times, sat in that chair two years ago, got connected to him through someone else that was on the podcast. He's a physicist. And then when he was coming in here, we knew he had known Jeffrey Epstein. I asked him about it on the podcast. He was a nice enough guy. He's got 7,500 emails with Jeffrey Epstein. So like, I'd love to be like, you know, and usually, like I have a policy of not really talking against people who have been in here and stuff like that. It's just like a part of the job. Let other people do that. But journalistically, like, you have to do this. Tonight, I'm not planning on reaching out to Lawrence to ask him about this or whatever, but when you are coordinating with someone that much over all these years, and we found out he was trying to get Jeffrey Epstein on the Joe Rogan Experience in 2017. You know, it's like, you know, bro, at that point, you know, and he said in the past, he was quoted as saying like, you know, "Well, I only ever saw Jeffrey around young women who were 21 or 22, so I assume that I believed him, took him at his word when he said he was..." Funny, 'cause that's exactly what Peter Mandelson said until the picture was released of him in his underwear with a 16-year-old, not realizing that he was being photographed.
And it's got to be said, like, when you see there's other people that are in the emails where I don't really see anything, and it's only a couple of emails, and they don't really seem to like know them well, and I'm like, "All right, it's weird, but all right." But to bring it back to Kathy, 11,500. Very interesting that you put two and two together with the kill list, which leads to my question, and again, some of this has to be theorizing. John and I, we weren't [ __ ] there, so we don't know. But do you think that Kathy, before we get to the origins of Jeffrey Epstein and go through all that, do you think it was that Kathy, as a rising star attorney, becoming kind of like a fixer, especially once she got into the Obama orbit when he gets into office? Do you think someone like that was just very clearly a target for Jeffrey, and he then actually possibly befriended her, and then because of the connections he had, she trusted him with information related to things like, I don't know, perhaps a kill list?
I think that's likely because if you're hearing from people like Alan Dershowitz, what a great guy Jeffrey Epstein is, right? And you know, I know that's your best friend. Yeah. Yeah, you love him. Yeah, we, yeah, we really love each other. Um, again, what kind of judgment do these people have? If you're like the most important constitutional attorney in the world, then maybe you should keep your pants on, probably. In the presence of a 16-year-old girl. Your defense that, that your, you kept your underwear on, that's not a defense. That's not a defense. You know, I was on the Piers Morgan show with him, I don't know, six, eight months ago, and Piers called it smackdown afterwards because I think I rattled him. I rattled Dershowitz. He said the most ridiculous thing. I said that I was confident that Epstein was a Mossad asset agent, and I believe that I've been proven correct. I believe that I underestimated his contact with intelligence services. We could talk about that one. Um, but I'm positive that he was an Israeli agent of some sort. And Dershowitz just jumped all over me. And then he shouted, "See, this is what he does. He interrupts to try to knock you off balance." But he shouted the most ridiculous thing, and I laughed at him. He said that he was Epstein's attorney, and if Epstein was a spy for the Mossad, he could have gone to the White House and he could have gotten him a later sentence. And it's like, "I would have hung him from a tree." No, John, I would have hung him from a tree.
Like, you think going to the White House and admitting that your client is spying for a foreign power on you. That's going to get him leniency? I saw, we can't play it because it actually has like copyrighted music in the background, but I was just looking when right before you got here, that clip popped up in my feed of him saying that. And it was actually, I don't know if you noticed this because you were just on Zoom, like going back and forth, but we can watch it afterwards and see everything. You could tell as he was getting through it, once he had said CIA or Mossad and then said, "I could have gone straight to the White..." He went like, "Oh crap. Oh, whoops." Cats out of the bag. Yeah. And you just see Bass and Musef like, he was good. Anyone else get that? You know what I was like, "Whoa."
But that's the thing, John. And I've talked about this a bunch recently. It's like, you're Greek American, right? You're born here. Born here. You're a dual citizen, right? Yes. But you're someone who served the American government until... Oh, I only became a dual citizen in 2010. That's right. Okay. So, you're even closer generationally. I'm like fourth generation or something like that. I'm half Italian, half Irish. No disrespect to the Irish side. I love my Irish fans out there. You know, I never identify with the culture. The food kind of sucks. I go out of my way to not celebrate St. Patrick's Day. It kind of is what it is. It's not a part of my family cultural history, right? And so, like, if something happened with Ireland tomorrow, I'd be like, "Ow, that's really sad, but my life would go on." On the other hand, the Italian side, that's my family culture on both sides that I have lived in the country. I have family in the country. I love that place. It's amazing. If tomorrow, though, as an American-born Italian, Irish American, if the American government came to me and said, "Listen, Jules, some [ __ ] went down last night and it turns out we are at war with Italy. Will you..." Before the question comes out, like, "Will you fight for us or them?" I have on my American fatigues and AK-47 and I'm taking the nearest plane, train, automobile to get the [ __ ] over to Italy and mow down whatever Mario and Luigi's get in my way in the wrong uniform. I'm going to hate it. I'm going to hate it, but I'm going to do it. And there are a lot of people whose names ended in a vowel in 1943, whose parents didn't even speak English, who did the same thing. And there are many American Jews who would say the same thing about America.
I take issue. It's not about the race. I take issue with anyone like an Alan Dershowitz who, you know, God damn well, American-born dude who's made his whole life here. You know, God damn well if you ask him that question, you get a blank stare and he changes the subject, and you know what the answer is. Or even just accuse you of being an anti-Semite. That's right. I couldn't agree with you more. I don't trust him. I don't like him. Frankly, I don't know anybody that trusts him. He's just not the kind of guy that instills trust.
And the thing about him that I have to give him is that ever since the Epstein story like first came out, he is one of the only people, if not maybe the only guy from that orbit, who will get in front of whatever camera is rolling to discuss the case directly. I will give him that. I will also give him that as an attorney, he did represent the guy. He has a job to do there. Whether we like it or not. But David Boyce was on the other day, he and I were both on Piers the other day, and he made an important point because David Boyce is one of the most important criminal defense attorneys in America. And he said that Dershowitz was more than just his attorney. He was his friend. And that's fine. You can be friends with your clients even if your clients are scumbags. But he was Epstein's publicist. And that's not fine. For all intents and purposes. Yeah.
Did you happen to see Les Wexner's testimony? I'm glad you brought that up, John. Did you catch the hot mic moment? "If you say more than five words, I'm gonna [ __ ] kill you." Yes, I did catch that. I loved it. How about the [ __ ] the re... Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah. Boy, Les Wexner, I would have so many questions for Les Wexner. There aren't enough hours in the day. What would be the first thing you'd ask him? What would possess you to hire a seventh-grade substitute math teacher who had never finished college to be your tax advisor when you are the richest man in the state of Ohio? There wasn't one person in the entire United States of America for you to hire to advise you on your taxes than a seventh-grade substitute math teacher who didn't finish college, unless you were also having sex with him.
Oh, I didn't see that curveball coming at the end. That kind of just hit me like... Which, which he has consistently denied. He has cons. Do you see his reaction to that with his face when they did bring that up in a separate question, I might add? They're like, "Did you ever..." First of all, he's like leaning forward like this the whole time. And they're like, "Did you ever, did you ever have sexual relations with Jeffrey Epste?" He's like, I was like, I need a body language expert on that one. I don't know. And you know what he did? According to Vanity Fair, as soon as people started asking that question, he ran out and got married. The guy was, you know, well into adulthood and had never been married. And then as soon as people started saying, "I wonder if Les Wexner is gay," he ran out and got married. See, this is what's strange about that in particular. Not, I can't speak for Les Wexner at all, but on the other side of the equation, because these files, to be clear, seem to show it's girls, boys, children, just in general. Anything went. But on the other side of the equation, in all the testimony, witnesses, people who were around Jeffrey Epstein coming forward, I have never heard something where it involved a male, period. It was always young women. Or little girls, right? So, for him to be, this would be a, you know, a gay relationship or encounter like that. And that, I mean, I guess it's totally, I guess nothing's off the table, but it's a, that's always been like a little bit of a red herring for me. Like, I wonder if it's like Les is doing stuff with people that Jeffrey's providing, and that could very well have been it as well. So, you ask that question though about why you'd hire a math teacher. And you give him so much money that he ends up... Power of attorney. And power of attorney, he ends up with the widest townhouse in all of Manhattan. You ever stood outside that place? I went once. Yeah. It's gigantic. Yeah. I give the demented tour of New York City. People come into town. We go. That's cool. That would be fun. We stand there. But it's a big place. Yeah, it is. You ever see, look at the Google Maps and see how far it goes back? No. House is like half the size. Wow. It's nuts. We'll get to Les, by the way. But this was an answer related to the first half of your question, John. So, let's let this play right here, Dee. Why Les Wexner hired Jeffrey Epstein? He did personal work for the Rothschild family in France. Well, specifically, I talked to Ellie de Rothschild, and so I mentioned that earlier. Uh, so he, he represented their whole families. There have been a whole bunch of people, many, most of whom I never would have met, but in New LA, he would say like, "I'm providing, uh, financial advice to the founders of Google. I'm financial providing financial advice to Jeff Bezos." Which, to be clear, that was that was later. That's good. That was later when he did that. That wasn't from that answer right there. But it seemed to me when you see the full, there's a full four-minute version of that as well, that what Wexner was saying, whether it's true or not, is certainly a question. But what he was saying is that he was really hitting at the point that like, because he personally talked to some of the members of the Rothschild family, and they confirmed at the time, this allegedly being in the mid to late '80s, something like that, right? That they were in fact working with Jeffrey on whatever basis they were. He decided... Bonafides. Yeah. Yeah. So, first of all, do you believe that, or you think there's more there? Oh, there's got to be more there. So far, in this entire story, nothing has been as it seemed. Nothing. There's been more behind all of it, behind every revelation. And if only half of it's been released, and we're flipping out over what we've seen so far, what's the other half include? And why wasn't it released? Is it even worse than what we've seen? Is it just a continuation of what we've seen? I will say that there are a lot of very important people out there who have questions that need to be answered. I hate that the statute of limitations is a problem here. I hate...
The statute's a problem in that this stuff can't be prosecuted. Which stuff? Like child sex crimes. Really? Yeah. There aren't going to be any charges against anybody. They're going to be civil suits, but nobody's going to be charged with a crime. If you look at even in the UK, the UK has been very straightforward about all this. They have Mandelson now, and former Prince Andrew. Andrew was charged with, um, with passing a document to Epstein that had to do with British, uh, business and trade negotiations. The Alama deal. The Alama deal. That's exactly right. And then Mandelson is rumored to have given him something from the defense ministry, which could be a violation of the state secrets, the Official Secrets Act. But none of this stuff has to do with sex.
We'll come back to the Al Mama deal because that has to do with like the origins here. I just, there is so much on the bone that it's so hard to stay on one thing. So I apologize to people if we jump around a lot, but John knows everything about this case, so that'll happen a little bit. But let's stay with Wexner for a minute. So you'd ask him about the source of wealth. Then they have a relationship for at least 20 years. He claims that he cut him off in 2007. I don't know that I believe that. Right. What else would you ask him? What would be the burning or, to quote Howard Lutnick, the cutting questions? I mean, I would ask questions that I know he wouldn't answer truthfully or honestly. Like, I would want rundowns of every time he went to that island. There's a reason why literally every room, including the bathrooms, were wired for audio and video. Nobody does that. He said he only went there once on his boat with his family, on the record. Right. I hope that's true. I don't believe him. I agree. Not if you've been a, not just a friend, but a close friend, a best friend for more than two decades. You went to the guy's house one time. Come on. It's like Def was saying with Howard Lutnick's answer at Congress where he's like, "I went to the island. It was only for an hour and I left with my wife, my children, and our nannies." Yeah. Yeah. 'Cause people fly all the way to the Caribbean for one hour. He's like, "You couldn't say." Def's like, "You couldn't say you were there for the afternoon." Exactly. I mean, it's a [ __ ] island. Exactly. And that was after Lutnick denied that they were close friends.
Look at Sarah Ferguson. Now she's in a whole heap of trouble. That's Prince Andrew's ex-wife. Mhm. Well, we knew for a long time that Jeffrey was like floating her money because they were in debt up to their eyeballs, right? I have a good friend who represented her as one of her attorneys, and he said she was always broke. Always broke. I don't know where the money went. How can you be a member of the British royal family and be broke? I have no idea. That whole thing's sketchy. I mean, specifically targeting that, too. And then after he's convicted in 2007, and she says publicly that she's cut him off, then she emails him, "I'm so sorry, Jeffrey. I love you. You're the big brother I never had." And then she takes her daughters down there to visit him and then lies about it. Like, what kind of hold did he have on people? I don't understand this. Do you think... I don't think this for a second, but I have to ask this just so you can at least respond. Do you think some of these people might have actually believed him at his word that he's like, "Yeah, I accidentally ordered a 17-year-old. I thought she was 21"? Do you think it's even possible that they would have believed it?
I think it's possible that they wanted to believe it and then allowed themselves to believe it. Deep down, no. Unless you're deaf, dumb, and blind. Uh, I can't imagine. No. Plus, you know, it's not like people don't talk. I mean, even Trump said back in the day, "Jeffrey likes him young. Too young for my taste." Yeah. A lot of people said, there's even emails. I'm trying to remember who it was with. Maybe it was actually with Mandelson, but don't quote me on that. Where they're going back and forth, and Jeffrey says, "Take a picture of you and send me a picture of you and the little girl or something like that." And the guy goes like, "Haha, yeah, sure." Yeah. Yeah. I interviewed a member of the British Parliament a couple days ago for my own podcast, and he said this is enough to bring down the British government. Yeah. Like judgment. What kind of judgment do you people have? And look, Mandelson has always been a scumbag, right? Everybody knew he was a crook. He had been credibly accused of, you know, embezzlement and extortion. He's just a crook. They're out there in politics. And so when word surfaced that he was close to Jeffrey Epstein, and you know, he had already had to be removed as business minister and from a couple of other senior positions in the British Labor Party, he swore to Kier Starmer, the now the Prime Minister of the UK, he swore to him that he barely knew Epstein. They had met once or twice. There was nothing to these rumors. And then the emails are released, including the photo of him with a 16-year-old girl, standing in his underwear. They're both looking at a laptop, so it's clear he does not realize he's being photographed. And, um, and then he had to admit that, okay, all right, you caught me. So he's resigned from the House of Lords. He's been thrown out of the Labor Party. But people aren't just angry at Mandelson. And also, he was recalled as the British ambassador to the United States. He's no longer the ambassador. They're not angry just at Mandelson. They're angry at the Prime Minister because what kind of judgment do you have when everybody in the country knew this guy was a scumbag, but because he looked you in the eye and he smiled at you and said, "Oh, no, no, Prime Minister, it's not true. None of it's true." And then your reaction is, "Okay, I'm going to make you ambassador to the United States of America." What goes through their minds? So this Kier Starmer may not last as long as Liz Truss's head of cabbage. And this is, this is bad. Already see the meme on that one.
So, you're also tying into directly what Ro Khanna said as well. And one thing I like about Massie and Khanna is their delivery is the same, with the exception of I've never seen Massie get worked up like he did at Pam Bondi. And he rarely gets worked up, but he genuinely dislikes Pam. Oh, yeah. She's a liar. But Khanna will just, like these two guys, Massie and Khanna, will just deliver this line about the Epstein files. It's like, "Wait, I'm sorry. What the [ __ ] did you just say?" And it's like, "Yeah, so, uh, we found this, and there it is. All right, have a good one." They walk out. So, Ro Khanna comes out maybe like two, three weeks ago, and he had just walked out of the DOJ where they, he got to see some of the stuff that they haven't released, and he was like, "Yeah, so the files show that this poses an existential risk for the entire monarchy system in the UK, and then therefore across Europe because they're all [ __ ] related." Literally. Which, you know, John, I obviously we kind of fought a war about that here like 250 years ago. I'm not a huge fan of monarchies. I wouldn't shed a tear about it.
I put a laughing emoji every time the Crown Prince of Greece posts something on Facebook. I like that. Yeah. Crown Prince of Greece. You're not even Greek. You're Danish. How dare you? Shut up, Mala. Get out of here. I like that. You got to, I'll retweet that when you do it. Let me know when you do it. But it's like the other problem with this, and maybe I'm like overthinking this a little bit, but these systems are so entrenched where from a backdoor economics perspective, whether it be real estate holdings, financial holdings, funnels of money, things like that. If it all came down at once, it could crash the whole system. Yes. I think it's real. Yeah. Um, I was watching BBC this morning, as a matter of fact, and they said as recently as three years ago, 80% of the British people support the monarchy. Today, 50% of the British people support the monarchy. They're at a tipping point. And if the Brits go, everybody else is going to go, too. Look at Norway. Who ever even heard of the Norwegian royal family? But now you got ties to Epstein. You got the Crown Prince's or Crown Princess's soning two women. Now he's got to go on trial. What kind of people are these? Like, is it really worth it to prop up these phonies as your as your monarchs? No, I don't think so.
Of course, that's not the question here. That's not the question. It's like, like if I were just responding with my anger, I'd want the entire system, we're not just talking monarchies, to just [ __ ] get a reset button. Right. But I also know how much that would affect all of us if it all happened all at once. And so that's the strange dance in trying to go through this case. How do you find a way to go in with the raid, right, and hit all the cockroaches, right? But not, you know, accidentally spray in grandma's mouth at the same time. And this is where you run into that problem of statutes of limitations again. Because it would be far easier if you could just prosecute these people, right, and show the people of every one of these countries involved that it doesn't matter how famous you are or how important you are, we're all equal under the law. And that's just not going to be the case here.
All these famous rich people, they're all going to get away with it. It's sick. You don't think anyone in the US will go to prison for this? I don't. You know, I was talking to a constitutional attorney about this, and he said the only way that this, that a prosecution could go forward is if the Justice Department could successfully argue that the cover-up of the original crime continued and constituted a conspiracy. So, you couldn't be, you couldn't be prosecuted necessarily for the crime itself. You would be prosecuted for conspiracy to commit the crime. But he said even that is a stretch. What about with statutes of limitations, though? What about all the stuff we're seeing like in this latest tranche where these things are occurring, a lot of it between 2011 and 2019? I would think there's not as if if you were doing cannibal acts on kids in 2015, like we would be able to prosecute that. In some cases, on the sex cases, the statute is five years. And so we've missed it. Which, you know what? May have been a part of the plan. Why didn't Joe [ __ ] Biden release all this information? Thank you. Every administration, I would argue, since Clinton has covered this up. And that's the thing. Absolutely right. You have Trump in office right now, and there's a massive cover-up happening, and it should be called out. We will call it out. It is what it is. We'll talk about that more. But every administration, red and blue, has had a chance to put this out. So all these Democrats who are suddenly just jumping on the train here because they can, and they can read a question their intern gave them that's an easy slam dunk because they covered this up. It's like I have no energy for those people either. This is a systemic problem that has happened to where you're just at a point now where the Democrats are like, "Well, the Clintons are so far past time, and they're so old, and, you know, like, we now we can throw them under the bus. They ain't like that no more." Nobody cares anymore, right? Uh-huh. But what about the victims then? What they don't care. How does that benefit the victims in any way? And why, why you finally get to depose Les Wexner, which, how about the fact he was listed as a co-conspirator in the documents? See, we never knew that. And he's never been interviewed. Never. Like, where was the FBI all these years? And another thing, too, and this goes back to the very basis of this case, Epstein got a sweetheart deal in 2006, right? And the US Attorney for the, whatever it was, the Southern District, the Central District of Florida, whatever it was, I guess it was the Central District, has said this is Aosta, who became Labor Secretary in Trump's first term, said that he was ordered to give this, this sweetheart deal, okay? So where do orders come? Who, who's the only person in the system there who can order a US Attorney to do something? That's the Attorney General. Well, the Attorney General was Alberto Gonzalez, who didn't brush his hair in the morning without permission from the president or the vice president, right? He was like legendary for his powerlessness and ill-suiting for the position. So, was it Bush? Was it Cheney? Who was it that was close enough to Epstein that he would want to swoop in and save Epstein by giving him this sweetheart deal? Nobody has ever answered that question. And Aosta apparently genuinely doesn't know the answer. His order came down from the Attorney General.
I think I believe him on that. I do too. I believe him. Because he said he, I was told he belonged to intelligence. Intelligence. That's the line. He belonged to intelligence. Well, this gets into that super government kind of thing because it's like you say, Bush and Cheney, which makes a lot of sense to me, but now like my whole worldview is just like, oh yeah, it's ridiculous. You know, I used to, I used to just piss all over people's analysis when they would start talking about the Trilateral Commission and Bilderberg and the Shangri-La Conference. And then somebody to whom I used to be very close, used to, and about whom a court order exists saying I cannot talk about her in any public forum, she went to one of those events. She was invited because she rose up high enough in the corporate structure that she went. And I couldn't wait to hear, what was it like? And she said, "It's a lot of really rich, really important people talking about arms deals." Arms deals. It was all about arms deals. And she said, "Except for except for Davos." She went to Davos and she said, "That's where they were all talking about how to manage the global economy." And I said, "So, so all that [ __ ] is true, that they're the ones that sort of set the policy?" And she said, "Yeah, I saw it with my own eyes." But I'm not... Can you get me a pen? Allowed to identify who that person is, nor... It's on the counter out there. Usually, I've never needed that before, but I may need that today after hearing that.
All right. So the Trilateral Commission, for people out there who are unfamiliar, this is something that's been written about a lot in the past. And once again, it's something that's always written off like, "Oh god, this is where..." Conspiracy theory. Well, but it's not. Go so fast. It's all, it's a real thing. It is. They even have a website. They have a website. We pull up the Trilateral Commission and Bilderberg. They list all the people that attend, but by name, all these people, and you'll recognize 80% of them. Oh man. Well, I mean, I guess that's hiding in plain sight, but it's something where I, I guess what I should say is the connotation of it was where the conspiracy theorists would be saying something, and people would be like, "No, it's just this group. It's David Rockefeller." Like, I know, right? Armand Rothschild, you know, and yeah, listen, they, we put Clinton on it. He was, he was bored after he left office, you know. And then you get Epstein in this, this sit-down with Steve Bannon, and we will talk about him, but you get Epstein saying, "Yeah, I was on the uh Trilateral Commission, and here's how I got." And he makes it sound so simple. Yeah, right. I'm like, "How do you even get there, buddy? You're a kid from Coney Island." Yeah. Somebody taps you on the shoulder. Next thing you know, you're getting an email. Dave, can you put the camera on, John? Yeah. I see what you're reading. Son of a [ __ ]. Really? I knew it. But really? Yeah. It was very... How she get in there? God damn. It was very disappointing to me. You can't talk about that by court order. No, sir. Yeah. I already didn't like her. Now I really don't like her. But wow. Wow. Yeah. This is the life I've given myself. And I'm just, yeah. Yeah. This is the life I've given myself.
Okay. So, back to the Oh, wait. Sweetheart deal because we were talking about where that would come from. You know, I'm trying to not let my brain run too wild with now every possible answer is all over here, and it's all like, absolutely the worst thing ever. But clearly, some of the answers are there. So, without getting to his origin story yet, because that's again, we're going to do that. But you talk about at the Trilateral Commission, they are going over arms deals and everything, and now this is entering your world of things that you have witnessed around the world and how [ __ ] works. What is it about arms deals that would make it the number one priority for the quote-unquote Illuminati of the world? Of the Pentagon's $1 trillion budget, fully a third goes to weapons and weapons systems, right? That's just for us. So couple that with what we're able to sell to other countries whose leaders are at these conferences. I mean, that we're talking about, you know, probably a majority of the American economy year after year after year. It's how we employ Americans. I read something recently, oh, the Washington Post, the New York Times, that the Pentagon has assiduously placed manufacturers, or I shouldn't say placed manufacturers, they have placed orders with manufacturers in literally every one of the 435 congressional districts. So literally every single member of Congress has constituents who are dependent on the defense economy, on the defense budget. And so there's no incentive for any member of Congress to vote no on DoD. And also paid by all those companies. Yeah, sure. I mean, it costs what? Five, eight, 10, 20 million to run for Congress every two years. That money's got to come from somewhere. So, it comes from defense department PACs. They buy them off on the micro, and then it wins them the macro when you put the numbers together. Yeah. Def, what did you pull up here? Just confirm. All right. So, the Washington Post reports that the Pentagon structurally distributes manufacturing and contracting across almost every congressional district to secure broad local political support, making budget cuts difficult. The strategy embeds defense spending into the local economy with analysis showing that despite a high concentration of funds among top contractors, the broader supply chain is deeply embedded in domestic districts. A friend of mine has a little, kind of, little mom-and-pop manufacturing plant in Beaver County, Pennsylvania. Aritine International. No, no, no. It's a little, just a little place you've never heard of. Got it. And he mentioned something to me one time. Oh, this is probably five years ago. He mentioned that he is entirely dependent on the Pentagon. And I was like, "The Pentagon?" I said, "For what?" "Oh, I can't tell you." He said, "It's a classified program." I said, "Seriously, George?" Like, I thought he was making, you know, heels for shoes or something. I didn't know what he was making. And then later on, he told me like, "No, it's this little widget that fits inside, you know, the motor for a, you know, Patriot missile or something like that." Nice. He's like, "In in Beaver County." And he's like, "Yeah." And then when I saw that report in the Washington Post, I was like, "Oh, of course, it all makes sense." What percentage of the Trilateral Commission, if you had to broadly guess, do you think is influenced by bankers around the world? Oh, all of it. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Sure. The reason I asked that is because again, I love this supra term that Tucker came up with because I think it's a great visual. Right. So presidents of the power countries around the world, the ones that actually matter at the UN, right? So think like US, China, Russia. And then, you know, the people below them too. But above that, you got, let's say, the fixer class, like the Epsteins of the world, who really hold the power to pull the strings on the peasante right here, who are the presidents and kings and all that [ __ ]. And then above that, you have the people who finance them. And the people who finance them as bankers, if you want to look at this this way, and it's fair to do it right now, look at things like financing wars to make money and profit off death, which also we could even get into the conversation of them trying to manage population control and doing so. Is that a ridiculous statement? I think that's a conversation that ought to be out there. Yeah. Yeah. For the... What makes you think we should have that conversation? Like, what kinds of things that you've heard? Population control and even the reverse of that is something that is...
Now making headlines. I read an article just in the past week or two that China likely does not have 1.1 billion people, that they've consistently lied about their population, and that they probably have something closer to 650 million or 700 million people. But they want the rest of the world to believe that they have all these people because it makes the case for these strong economic numbers that they're always putting out, which also are probably not true.
Um, a country like Greece. Greece is in trouble because Greece went through this very long-term economic, um, it was a depression. It wasn't even a recession, it was a depression. And so much of the educated middle class, doctors, lawyers, engineers, businessmen, they just left. They went to the US, the UK, Australia, Canada, Germany. And so there almost is no middle class or no upper middle class in Greece. It just left. Well, the economy then is unsustainable because there's nobody there to create jobs.
There was a, there was a piece, oh, years ago, um, in the Washington Post saying if you look at the shrinkage in Russia's population, if it keeps declining at its current rate, you're going to, like this, in 150 years, there won't be any Russians. They just won't exist anymore.
What's the State Department going to do? Call them out then? What do you do now? Of course, immigration changes that, that calculus. But, you know, we're talking about the, the possible, um, what's, what's the word? Uh, the possibility that countries just can no longer remain viable as countries without real population changes.
I told you about my encounter with David Rockefeller, did I not?
You did not tell me about that.
No. I was, I was working in Bahrain in the American embassy. I was the economic officer, and I was a longtime subscriber to this wonderful magazine called Art News Magazine. And I read this article about David Rockefeller being given this major, like, art world award for the work that he's done over the course of, you know, 75 years or whatever it was for art in New York. And then we get a cable from the State Department saying that David Rockefeller is coming to Bahrain because he's being given an award by the Bahraini American Bankers Association. And the ambassador comes into my office, David Ransom, wonderful, wonderful ambassador, lovely human being, one of the best bosses I ever had. And he said, "Hey, uh, we got a cable from from State saying that David Rockefeller is coming out to Bahrain. He's going to collect this award from the Bankers Association." I said, "The Bankers Association?" And he said, "Yeah, I want you to be his control officer." I said, "I'd love to be his control officer." What that means is you arrange the car, you arrange the the hotel, you make sure he gets from point A to point B, and just make sure there are no problems. If he wants to go shopping, you take him shopping, you do anything he wants. I welcomed it.
Well, as soon as the Bahinis heard that David Rockefeller was coming, his Highness the Amir announces, "We're going to do a state dinner." Right? So the entire cabinet, the entire royal family, the entire diplomatic corps, all the ambassadors, all the accredited diplomats, this is a major event, like the biggest social event of the year. It's, it's at his main palace. There are like 500 people there. So I go and I was saving my congre See, I thought I was very clever. I was just a stupid kid. So I, I saved my my congratulations for his award for the receiving line. So I said to the Amir, "It's such a pleasure to see you, Your Highness." And I said to the prime minister, "We didn't like each other very much." You're like, you know, "Hello."
Hello.
Hello.
He would always say, "Hello, Kiryaku."
Yeah. And then he would kind of stare at me.
You're like the spy version of a VEEP episode. I don't know if anyone ever told you that, but. And then it comes David Rockefeller and I said, "Mr. Rockefeller, I wanted to congratulate you on your, you know, whatever it was called award." Oh, he lights up. "Thank you so much. I'm so proud of that award." The Guggenheim and the Madness. And then I, you know, go. And then the next night he collects his award from the Bankers Association and he leaves.
So we had a 9:00 meeting in the embassy every day. It was, you know, the ambassador, the deputy chief of mission, and and the heads of all the departments. So, I'm in there in the morning meeting and the ambassador says, "So, the Rockefeller visit went very well." And I said, because I'm an idiot, I said, "Why would a guy who's almost a hundred years old fly halfway around the world to collect a little trophy from some bankers that he's never met before?" And the ambassador goes like this. Goes, "John, John, you're supposed to be the smart one." He says,
What? What am I missing?
He's like, "He didn't come for the bankers award. That was his cover stuff." And I said, "So what was he doing here?" He said, "David Rockefeller is the secret back channel to Saddam Hussein. He came here to make it look like he had business in the Middle East. We put him on a military transport this morning and sent him to Baghdad to tell Saddam Hussein to cut it out or you're going to get a bomb up your ass." And then he flew back from Baghdad. And I was like, man, I, I have a lot to learn.
Wow. That, that didn't impact your worldview a little bit?
Oh yeah, it sure did.
Like things are not what they seem.
Might be an inappropriate thing to say these days, but that's like a Jay-Z line.
Yeah.
We got Rockefeller out there whist.
Yeah, that's uh.
I'm friendly with his daughter now and she uh.
Rockefeller.
Yeah, Abby Rockefeller. She's very, very sweet. No, no, no. She's a communist. And uh, yeah, Abby's great. She, she went to Harvard in the '60s and became a communist and rebelled against her family. And she gives all of her money to left-wing.
Oh my god.
Charities and and concerns. She's fantastic.
That's too good.
Keep going. I'm sorry.
No, I, I mentioned the story to her and she said, "Yeah, that sounds exactly like something my dad would do." Yeah. What do I know?
Yeah. I guess. Well, she went the opposite way. Give her that, I guess. But how'd you become friends with her?
I'm on the board of Covert Action Magazine and uh and she's a supporter of the magazine.
No kidding. That's not Covert Action Magazine. That doesn't sound sketchy at all.
It was founded by Philip Agee, who uh the CIA tried to assassinate for decades. He was a CIA case officer who saw what covert actions were were doing to innocent people in Latin America in the late '60s. And so he went public and wrote a book called Inside the Company. And as an appendix at the back of the book, he listed the names of every CIA officer he ever encountered and outed everybody and then took off for Cuba. And uh the CIA hunted him down from country to country to country. They finally gave up. He died in Cuba, I don't know, 10 years ago, 20 years ago. And um his son has kept the magazine going. And and the co-founder of the magazine, Lou Wolf. Shout out to Lou, who's now like 87 or 88 years old. He's a good friend of mine. Um, this was Lou's baby with Philip Agee. And uh and the magazine is still a monthly concern. I write for it every month.
Do you think we have so many examples of where covert actions were just taken for like imperialism purposes or just because we felt like overthrowing?
There's actually a Wikipedia page.
Let's pull it up.
Yeah. CIA covert action. Wikipedia. The first one was the uh 1949 Italian election.
Right. With the communist. And there was a deleted scene in The Godfather that Francis Coppola put in there where Michael's walking in the fields with Fabrizo. Yeah. And he sees in the hillsides at Corleone. And he sees the red, like, little army of, you know, communist supporters right there. And he's like, whatever. And Fabrizo is like.
And that was right around the It's taking place right around the time where that was going to be a thing where they were going to come in and take over the power vacuum post-Mussolini with the opposite side. And then the CIA is like.
No, no, you don't. That that covert action operation. It was the first one and it's been declassified by the CIA. Um, it was very simple. They gave $150,000 in cash to the Christian Democratic Party, which was the conservative party. It was behind the communists in the polls.
They were going to lose the election. The communists were going to win. You can't have a communist government in Western Europe, right? That's just for the East, Eastern Europe.
And so what they did is they used that money to bribe um journalists to write pro-conservative articles in the run-up to the election. And they were able to swing just enough votes that the conservatives won.
And it was only 150 grand.
Yeah. It was the first one.
So.
That was a lot of money in the '40s, though.
I know. But for the whole party, for a bunch of journalists, I mean, I'm splitting up that pie, it's getting smaller. And you think like Don Corleone was taking a baseball bat to people too?
Well, I mean, think of it this way, too. If you're a journalist and you're asked to write 500 words, that's probably worth $500 in 1949 money. I mean, if that's what you get paid today, that was a lot of money in 194.
Yeah, but if I'm going to swing an election, you got to add a zero to that.
Yeah, maybe.
Yeah. So, you, you're all right. So, we're looking at this Wikipedia page. Everyone else can pull this up, too. And it's funny because Wikipedia is run by the CIA, and they can't even stop this article from happening.
Well, oftentimes the CIA gets outed. Um, when people look at the um at the ISP information for the editors, it oftentimes goes back to Langley.
They're that dumb. Come on.
Yeah, they're that dumb. Really?
Yeah. Yeah. I remember in my own case, we, we asked um, we asked for something in discovery. I don't remember what it was. And it was, we were, we were having a meeting, all the attorneys. I had 11 attorneys. And um, one of them said, "Hey, we should ask for X." And uh, one of the other attorneys said, "Oh, come on. They're not that stupid." And he said, "No, actually, they are that stupid." And sure enough, they had [ __ ] it up. And um, and they ended up having to drop three charges.
Just because of that.
They're arrogant.
Yeah.
They think they're smarter than everybody else is. That they don't make mistakes, or even if they do make mistakes, you're not smart enough to figure out that they've made a mistake. And that's just simply not true.
But it's also like, John, they have a VC arm, as we've outlined before, everyone outlines it inel.
And they admit who they invested. Oh yeah, we threw money at Palantir.
And now look at Palantir.
Billions in revenue.
And it's like, that's where sometimes I wonder, yes, I hear you. There's hubris there. There's [ __ ] you, we can do what we want. We're seeing that play out on a massive scale right now. But sometimes I wonder if there's.
If I'm crazy to wonder it too, if there's like a 5D chess thing here where people are like, we know some of this [ __ ] will come out and that's what we want to happen because we want society to flip the [ __ ] out.
Sure. That happens. That that happens sometimes.
Yeah. And it could have happened with things that not even related to your case, but that CIA might do as it relates to Wikipedia where they're like, "Yeah, people will flip out about this by 2025, after 2026, after we do that whole pandemic thing."
Right. Exactly.
Oh, exactly.
I mean, as an example, sure, why not?
Hypothetically.
Hypothetically, sure.
Okay.
Sure. And another thing too is if you throw, you know, so many of these ideas for operations out there or these little mini operations, there are some that are just going to, you know, not come to people's attention. They're not going to realize that it's a some sort of a covert action operation or disinformation operation.
A disinformation. See, that's the big one now today.
You don't know who's behind keyboards anywhere, right? We do it to a ton of people.
You don't. Even even the people who are supposed to be the good guys, you can't trust. I've told you this before. I've got this buddy, Jason Leupold. He's at Bloomberg. Jason is one of the best investigative journalists I've ever encountered in my life. And honest, honest as the day is long. He um, he's the FOIA king. He's filed more Freedom of Information Act requests than anybody else in the history of the Freedom of Information Act. To the point where George W. Bush's Pentagon spokesman called him a FOIA terrorist on the record. Called him a FOIA terrorist. It was Jason that broke the Hillary Clinton email uh scam.
Whoa. I didn't know that.
Through a FOIA request.
He got that through a FOIA. That's it.
So he told me, this is about 10 years ago. He told me that he was bored one one week over Christmas break. He was bored. So he just filed a FOIA request. He had nothing else to do.
Yeah, that's right.
And he asks for all communications between the CIA and all journalists. Period.
Anything?
For for this period? No. No. For this this period of whatever it was, a year, I think is what it was.
And you know the CIA never ever ever answers FOIA requests. They say, "Oh, they send you a letter saying, 'Okay, thank you. It's it's in queue.'" Well, I filed a FOIA request 15 years ago. I'm still waiting.
What's the legality of that, though?
They have 60 days. So, what happens is when day 60 comes, you have to sue them. And you will always win. And because the law is clear, they have 60 days. You will always win and the judge will always make them pay your legal fees.
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