Transcription
[Music] Back in June, I did something that completely shocked me, and I traumatized my girlfriend. We went out for dinner. We had a couple too many strong drinks when I got back. You're going to think I'm a horrible person, but I ended up slapping her. First and foremost, I would tell every single woman in this situation.
[Music] What up? What's going on? What's going on? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show, coming to you live from Nashville, Tennessee, but not really live. Pre-recorded, but I'm live right now, taking your calls on, man, whatever is going on in your life, your mental and emotional health, your relationships, your marriages, whatever you've got going on. I'll sit with you and I'll walk with you as we figure out what the next right move is. You want to be on this show? Go to johndeloney.com/ask. We take your calls from all over planet Earth. If you write into the show, leave a message, we will haul a bat girl at you and we will get you on. Can't wait.
Let's go out to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, and talk to Alex. What's up, Alex? Hey, John. Um, what's up, dude? Doing okay. I'm, I'm a huge fan, but, um, yeah, I just wanted to talk about something that happened back in June, and I got a, I got a doozy for you today. Um, pretty, pretty horrible.
Okay, go for it. Um, so, back in June, um, I did something that completely shocked me, and I traumatized my girlfriend. For some context, um, I'm a college student. I was in a great relationship, and one night we, we went out for dinner, and, um, we had a couple too many strong drinks, and I blacked out, and then I think I drank more after that. So, it was just bad. But I ended up slapping her. Um, and I'm not a violent person. Like, I've never had this impulse of doing something like this to her or anyone. And I woke up, no recollection of anything that happened. It was, I, I found out about it that morning, and just a crazy shock. So, I guess my question would be, what can I do to work through myself and figure out what happened on my end that night, and ensure nothing like this happens again to anyone? Um, and how can I help her feel safe around me again, and, and what steps can we take as a couple to build a relationship?
Um, I, I'm sifting through, I'm, I'm trying to be measured in my response, right? And you get that. First and foremost, I would tell every single woman in this situation to not talk to you ever again. Okay? So, like, I want to put your relationship stuff aside for now. Okay? And the greatest gift you can give somebody when you physically assault them and then you say, "I don't know why I do that. I don't know where that came from," is to say, "The greatest way I can love you is to get you out of my sphere until I've got a handle on this." And so, if she were on the phone, I would say, "You're dating this person. Hang up the phone, block him, and just never talk to him again." Right? She's not on the phone with me. You are. So, the next thing I would ask you, you said you did this thing. You woke up, and I'm sure she told you all about it. How did the next morning conversation go as she walked you through what had happened?
Um, I mean, I totally, there was no argument on my end. I was, um, in complete shock. And I, I find that, honestly, like, just between me, you, and me, I find that hard to believe. Why? Because you're talking about a Jackal and Hyde situation that's just so rare outside of like, deep pathology. Well, that's why I'm, I'm legitimately trying to figure out what's going on, 'cause I, like, like you're saying, like, I should have remembered that. No, no, no. I'm saying nobody, or it's astoundingly rare to, and I'm trying to rack my brain right now, thinking if I've ever talked to somebody, and I can't, I may have over the years. I've talked to thousands, I mean, so many people, but I can't remember a time that somebody, even when drinking, like, like often what happens with alcohol is it peels back, it, it, it, it pulls apart the layers of our protective masks to be union for a second. Like, it pulls away those layers, and you get a version of yourself that is like, "Oh, there he is." Right? Okay. And so, it would, it would shock me to say you have never had a violent outburst. You've never screamed and yelled at somebody. You've never said stupid things. You never have that, that has never happened in your life. It just happened this one time.
No. 100%. And I have been gotten, uh, too drunk and been extremely childish, childish. Yelled, screamed, and like treated her like, but like, never like something on this level. Okay, that's not childish. That's abusive. And when you call it childish, you're, it's a, it's a way to pacify this behavior. So, I want you to, I mean, like, I, I get childish about like arguments or like insecurities and stuff, and then I become abusive. Abusive. Okay. Yes. Before her. When did this happen in your life?
Um, never. I've had relationships before, but I've never been drinking with, I never were drinking with them, 'cause I was in high school, and we weren't partying too much. Um, and this, this has never, this has never happened to me. Okay. Like, in, in this, yeah.
How much have you consumed? How often have you consumed alcohol after this? Since this has happened? Yep. Um, I've gone to concerts and stuff and had a couple beers, but nothing to the point where I've gotten drunk, per se. Um, but yeah, I've, I've drank beer since, since you, you can, you can, like, I'm just going to be honest with you, brother. I don't think you're ready yet. Okay? 'Cause what you want, what you're wanting to do is keep your life exactly the same with a few modifications to it. And you have an unstable impulse inside of your chest. And so you want to, I'm just not going to drink hard liquor, but I'll just drink some beers. I'm going to go out and just kind of do my thing, but like, I just won't do this thing. And like, I just get childish, and then I say dumb things. And you're not grasping the full reality of this. Like, if you, like, you can never drink again, ever. Okay? And you have to say, "Hey, honey, we need two months away from each other, and I'm going to go sit down with a therapist 'cause I'm not okay." 'Cause I don't think you're fully grasping the depth of which you're unstable if you drink to black out and another version of you emerges. You get what I'm saying? Yeah. That comes from a level of repression and insecurity that has to make its way out in other places. Do you, do you have a problem? Like, and I need you, if you're not going to be honest, then this is kind of a waste of a phone call. So, you are, you're all, I'm an honest person. Okay. Um, do you have a problem exaggerating or kind of telling a bigger tale when you're talking to your buddies or talking to a professor or your parents?
Do I have a problem exaggerating? Yeah. Are you kind of exaggerating? Do I exaggerate stuff? Yeah. Um, I wouldn't, I wouldn't say that I do that. You're exaggerating, like, my accomplishments? No, just life. Hey, man, you're five minutes late. Yeah, I know, dude. Traffic was kind of crazy. It wasn't. I'm pretty, I would say I'm pretty genuine. I, I like to think of myself as a genuine person.
I know, but you're not. That's the thing. I, I think the challenge here is you like to think of yourself as, fill in the blank, yet your actions are are separate from that. I see. That's what I'm trying to merge is is behaviors of language. Like, I, you have this image of yourself as, yet reality is showing us something different. Yeah. And so this projection you have in the world is like, "I'm a pretty honest guy. I'm a, I'm actually a great guy. If I do this one thing, then I become a monster." In your words, I become childish. But then I'm cool. And when I tell you it's not cool. So, you think I'm just repressing a lot and lying to myself? I think you're walking through the world with a pair of glasses on that isn't reality. Either that, or you have such a deep pathology related to alcohol that would be different than I can't touch that ever again. Yeah.
Who have you talked to? Counselor? Like, um, I want to, I want to start therapy. Um, why haven't you? I don't know where to start. Like, I don't want to tell, get my parents involved. Um, and I don't know like how I would do it on my own, and also like, I'm really busy, but I know that's not an excuse. Yeah. And that's the, that's the thing. So, to heal from something like this, you have to acknowledge there is a monster that lives within me. I'm not saying you're a monster. I'm saying you have a monster inside of you. And I'm, I'm hard-pressed to believe that it only comes out when you're drinking, but I'm going to take you at your word on this call. And almost every person I've ever met in this situation has spends a ton of energy in their non-wasted life and their non-drunk life carefully curating an image to the world. And that is exhausting. And alcohol frees you from it. And the dragon emerges. And bro, feel free to tell me I'm wrong. That you're just a happy-go-lucky guy. You make straight A's. You're a good kid. And then all of a sudden, I just hit my girlfriend in the face. Like, I'm, I'm totally open. I'm trying to, to think to really think about it, but honestly, I, I see myself as a pretty free spirit. Um, like, and I, I know you, like, like this is like what I want to see myself as, but I, I genuinely like don't care a lot about what other people think about me. And like, I, like to, like, I, that's a quality that I like about myself. Um, and I don't think I'm always curating, I'm always curating, um, an image. I mean, obviously, like, sometimes, yes, like we feel like everyone curates some kind of image. Um, sometimes, but I do think I do know that there is some monster inside of me that I need to work through and process. And I, this has been the worst thing that is like, I've ever done, and it's ever happened in my life. Um, just, I don't want to, I'm not the victim here, but the, the guilt and the, the looking myself in the mirror, it's, it's insane. Yeah. Um, but I'll tell, I'll tell you, the, the holding on to that without sitting in front of somebody and being seen and heard will kill you. Yeah. It will magnify this.
I should go to my, my school's counseling office, or should I go on to like, like a better, like a website like Better Help? If you go to, No, you need to be in front of a person. Okay. In front of a live person. If you go to your school, I'm going to tell you right now, they're going to have to respond to the fact that one of their students got hit in the face by another student. Yeah. And so there will be student conduct accountability with this. Make no mistake, they'll have to. Okay. Especially because you don't know why this happens and you don't know when this happens again. Exactly. That's what I'm terrified of. Yes. I'm like, if I didn't have any intentions of this at first, like, what feels like uncontrollable? Like, what, like, I don't even. But the main switch that you've told me is controllable is when I drink, I be, this this thing gets released. Yeah. And so also you think it's like more than it's more than just not hardly, like I need to be completely sober. Absolutely. Yes. Yeah. And if you, if you don't like who you are or you don't like how you feel when you're sober, that's what you need to go sit down and address. And so the greatest gift you can give her, the greatest act of love you can give her is to say, "I need to break off contact with you for 60 days while I go down a rabbit hole to figure out who, why am I hiding from myself so desperately?" There's no way to do to be together and do that self-discovery and healing. You can do what you want, man. But I'm telling you from the rooftops, if this was any woman in my sphere, my sister, my wife, my daughter, my friends, my friend's daughters, I would say, "Do not talk to this person until they are unwound." Period. Because here's the thing, you don't know why you did that. That means every time she enters into your space, she's taking a risk to a fist in the face, dude. And she's not on the phone with me. You're worth more than that, man. Yeah. I hate that person who who did that. Don't hate the person, hate what happened. If you start hate, if you try to, if you try to heal from, I hate him, you have to heal from a place of, I'm worth self-control. I'm worth being a safe, loving presence. I'm worth being able to see something and exhale and walk away for a bit. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And I don't know any man in the world that doesn't have things that set them off. The biggest part, one of the greatest responsibilities of a man is to know those things are there and to take into account when and when not to let them out. I would be willing to bet, I don't have a lot of money. I would be willing to bet a chunk of money that you're not going to be able to do that because you're not willing to do it. Not talk to her. Yeah. Not to not give her, like say, "I need to go get healthy and I'm not safe to be around. We're cutting ties for 60 days. I love you. It's been an amazing nine months. I have to go detox from you as my drug, from figuring out why in the world I drink till I black out and I become like this dragon comes out of my chest that I've got kind of this curated image of myself that I have to prop up with weed and alcohol and sex because I have to numb myself to being in the world of my own skin. I need at least 60 days, and we'll put a day on the calendar. We'll go have breakfast. We'll meet in a public place and we'll go have breakfast. But I've got to, I've got to keep you safe and I got to keep myself safe and I got to get to the bottom of this." And you will not, by any stretch of the imagination, be quote unquote free in 60 days. But you'll be on a path to begin to see the world a little bit clearer. And you have to resolve. Brother, I cannot touch alcohol because you cannot ever hit a woman in the face with drunk, blacked out, sober, ever. Period. Thanks for the call, man. And I hope you hear me trying to talk to you in love and not just beating you up. And I know that don't read the comments on this call 'cause people are going to be brutal and awful and ugly. Know that I'm, I'm, I'm imagining my daughter in her place. And so I do have anger in my chest. You can hear it. I do have rage in my chest. You can hear it. But I'm also trying to honor the fact that I got a hurting, broken kid in front of me who is saying, "I don't want to be like this." And I'm, I'm willing to sit with you and love you. But you have to take full accountability. And that starts with sitting in front of somebody vulnerably, knowing that what I put on the table will have consequences. And those consequences are okay and right, and that will be the path towards getting well. Thanks for the call, brother. I, I'll take your call anytime you want to call on my show and let me know how you're doing.
We come back, a mom is struggling to hold it together during her husband's long, silent Navy deployments. This show is sponsored by Better Help. All right. Everybody in the world is talking about therapy these days. And I often hear folks say, "I don't have any major traumas in my life. I don't think therapy is for me." This is super important. Therapy isn't just for people dealing with major traumas. It can be for that. It has been for me, but it can also be a valuable tool for anyone looking to improve their mental and emotional and relational well-being. I see a therapist for both the big challenges from my past, as well as helping me navigate the day-to-day challenges that pop up in my life. And many of you should see someone, too. And if you're thinking about trying therapy, contact my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online, so it's affordable and convenient for your schedule. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. They also have over 10 years of experience matching people with the right therapist just for them. To get started, you just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a licensed therapist. If it's not the right fit, you can switch therapists at any time easily and for no extra cost. Talk it out with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com/deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp.com/deloney.
All right, let's go out to Seattle, Washington, and talk to Elizabeth. Hey, Elizabeth. What's up? Hey, John. How's it going? Doing all right. How are you, lady? Oh, pretty good. Pretty good. Been better, been worse. Awesome. What's up? Um, so my husband basically becomes a ghost, uh, every three years. He's, uh, works in the Navy. He's on a submarine. So, we get about 24 hours notice of coming and goings, which wasn't so bad when it was just me. Um, but now we have a nine-year-old daughter this time around, and she's, uh, special needs. She's a little bit on the, um, autistic spectrum. So, routine is kind of where she thrives, and this is very anti-routine. So, I'm trying to find a way to, uh, help support her and my husband and help them like stay connected during these crazy next three years we have coming. I could use some wisdom in a guide map.
I'll give you a guide map, but you're not going to like it. Is that cool? I'll take it. All right. Um, let me get a little more context here. So, on these three-year deployments, um, what does resurfacing look like? Is there times? I know probably every email gets read, there's no communication, that kind of thing. When you, 100% whenever, um, are there, no pun intended, are there days and times when he comes up for air and is free to call, or is it three years of silence?
Yeah, we get no phone calls. Um, but it's not three years in a stretch, so it's a lot of in-and-outs. Okay. Yeah. So, it'll be, it could be, you know, we'll get a call, hey, um, he's leaving tomorrow. Cool. We see him off, and then we'll get a call maybe in three months, hey, I'm coming home. Okay. So, we don't have a date. Um, but there's a lot of in and out. We kind of have a, a season, shall we say, of like, oh, he's probably going to be gone over the holidays. Okay. You know, that kind of thing. And then you get 24 hours notice and he's got to ship out, and there's just silence. Exactly. And there's no phone calls. Yeah. We get something like email, but, you know, there's no links attached. You can't send photos, and you never know it. They can only get them or receive them when it's safe for them to come up and ping a satellite. There you go. And they're kind of in the world's most dangerous game of hide-and-seek. So, it's not very often. Of course. That's right. Okay. Um, so I'm going to tell you numero uno, which. Oh, let me ask one more question. Sorry. Um, is this, y'all, is your daughter, y'all's chosen biological kid? Did y'all adopt her? How did you just suddenly get a nine-year-old with special needs?
She is, she is our bio kid. Um, but the last time we went through this, uh, this rotation, it was during COVID, so everything was very different. Okay. And we had like video chats every day because he was sick and stuck in a hotel room, and it was very different than this time around. Okay. And I think now that she's older, too, it's been, what, three years since the last one? So, they do like three years of this crazy in-and-out, and then three years of like an office job, and then they talk you back into going on the sub. Right. Right. Right. So, so she's had him, Dad home pretty much every night for the last three years. Okay. Um, and all of that's about to change. And we, we have a great relationship. My husband, I have a great relationship. He's got a pretty good relationship with her. Homecoming is always rocky.
Tell me about that. Tell me about homecoming. Uh, everyone's always very, I think it's very typical of military families, but for those people who aren't familiar with it, you see the homecomings on TV where everybody hugs and loves each other, and that's fantastic. But we will have my daughter and I will have developed a routine and a lifestyle, and he's got to figure out like where he fits in, and we've got to adjust to this other person being home, and she's got to adjust to another adult that can tell her what to do. Right. Right. So, it's, it's kind of a battle. I think last time it really took probably like a year, year and a half for them to be much more comfortable with each other. I'm kind of hoping now that she's older, it will be different.
Well, it will always be different, but it will be smoother. How verbal is she? How, how, how social is she? She can talk. She's very expressive in that, in that regard. That's not kind of where our sticking point is. Um, but we get into kind of like shutdown mode and meltdown mode from time to time. And it's, it's something my husband is also, being in the military, everything is very like rigid, has to happen now. Correct. And that works for her routine, but when we start getting out of that routine, as life requires you to do, um, it's hard for him to slow down. Yes. And you address the mel, you know, kind of get through the meltdown, right? That makes sense. And then be able to talk to her. And also being in the military, like, just that she's very sensitive to sound, and his voice gets very big, right? So.
So, what I'm hearing two important things. One is her outbursts or her shutdowns. I like to think of them in this way, and it's not apples to apples, but, um, I was blown away working with students with young people with autism that they're way more perceptive than they would seem. Yeah. But their outbursts are, can't, I mean, they can be these huge expressions of love that they just don't process like somebody not on the spectrum would. And so they come across as shut down. They come across as hitting. They come across as kind of just manic, if you will. And if somebody's walking in with a picture of, "This is how my house is going to go now that I am home," yeah, I mean, that's a recipe for it's a tension that meets tension that meets tension that meets explosion, right?
That's a great way to put it. And, I mean, and she, her shutdowns look like, um, she doesn't want anybody to touch her. And as a father coming home like that, like he can't even give her a high five or a hug, you know? Correct. So, and he also doesn't want to be that man that's forcing himself, you know. Of course. Of course. So, here's a couple of things I would start doing now. When does, give me a range of when he ships out. Is it one month from now? Is it 30 days? Is it tomorrow?
Actually, we lost him last week. Okay. We don't say that. Don't say we lost him last week. We'll put it this way. He's, he's out finding Nemo, but there aren't really good portholes. So, there you go. There you go. All right. So, um, I would do a couple of things here, big, and then I'm going to give you the big thing that you're not going to like. Okay. Um, thing number one is I would start, if you can build this into your routine, if you could do it every day, that would be awesome. That's probably too much. If you could do it two or three times a week, or if you could put, you like a wall calendar. Uh, yeah. Okay. If you could put, um, and even ask your daughter if she can put two times a week when we are going to send a message underwater to Dad. And that can be, we're going to write him a letter together. We're going to draw him a picture together. She's nine, right? You said? Yeah. Yeah. And, um, she has some fine motor skill issues, but we do try to do the emails every day, but like, you, I'm finding that like she's just not interested. And part of it is because addressing that makes you sad. Yeah. I, I'm talking about a, um, like with a pen and paper. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. And so it's going to serve two purposes. One, it's going to keep her relationally tethered in some shape, form, or fashion. It could be a picture. It could be, we're both going to draw a picture of a tree for Dad because he's underwater and there are no trees underwater. But we're going to do this thing, and so that when he shows back up, he will have three years of letters. Mhm. When he returns, we're going to go get a life-size teddy bear or dog stuffed animal. Mhm. And she, during her, because she's going to be 12 when life, quote unquote, resumes, right? Yeah, he's going to be in and out for the next three years, but then, yeah, and then he'll be home for another three, and then we'll see what life brings. Okay. I want to give him something. And this is, this is kind of a, uh, end-around 'cause he needs this, too. He's just going to be a tough military guy and not be able to say this out loud. He needs something to hug, too. Yeah. So, he's going to walk in, and if she shuts down and doesn't want to hug him, he's going to say, "I love you so much, but I'm going to hug this dog and pretend it's you." That's a great idea. And she, he's going to get to release that hug. And it's not going to be his daughter. And by the way, my daughter's not on the spectrum, and she struggles with sensation with with, and it breaks my freaking heart that I can't hug her sometimes. Oh, yeah. I mean, I'm, I'm her mom, and some, we basically at bedtime, we're like, kisses, hugs, high five, knuckles, wave, whatever. We have my daughter and I right now, we just, we just developed a new high five routine this morning. Perfect. And so, and here's the thing. She wants to hug me, and she gets caught in her own loop. And so, but here's the person who has to manage that. Me. I'm the adult. And so, I will hug the stuffed animal. Mhm. And say, "This is my hug for you. I love you so much." And then we do our high five routine. I love that. That's a great idea. But it also gives your husband a way to direct that. He, because he's gonna have dad guilt, and then he's gonna try to wallpaper over the dad guilt with, "I'm serving my country," and then he's gonna go over that with, "But I need to be a dad. I need to be present." And then you're going to look at him kind of hollowed out because you're exhausted from being a single parent. It's going to be all that crap. There's something about, I can channel that. I can hug my wife, and I can hug this little bear, and then I will do the high, that will, it will help regulate an adult, which is embarrassing, but it is what it is, what it is, and I live that life too. Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, that's a great idea.
Now, you started this call by, and, and by the way, give him a thing that he can sit at the table, and it could be dinnertime, and once a week, he's going to open up one of these pictures, or once a night at dinner when she doesn't want to talk, she's not making eye contact, she's just eating quietly. He's going to open this up, and it will be, "I love you, Dad," in the form of a picture of a bird, because there's no birds underwater. Yeah. Yeah. And his job is to take 10 seconds and just say, "How I feel so loved that you drew me this picture of this bird." Mhm. And how she responds to that will be filtered through all kinds of her ABA stuff and her, like, all that. That's all well and good. His job is to regulate himself and let her know, "I'm back in a stable, sturdy presence." Yeah. Yeah. I, I mean, I got to admit, like, one of the, one of the things I love best about him is that he's always been, I mean, just as in it as I am, and willing to learn and be flexible, and having to measure your own reaction. Yes. Um, ask her a question, and, and not like, she, she's looking for what kind of response do you want? You know, there's no wrong answer. That's it. But that, when he's measuring his response, she feels that measuredness, and she tries to match it. And she, the challenge with being autistic somewhere on that spectrum is the, the return misses. Mhm. Right? Like the social return, I smiled, so you're going to smile back. It is, I don't, what kind of smile is that? And I don't have in my toolkit that return. And then I see that you go to a frown, and now I feel like it's that, it's that volley back and forth that we all just take for granted socially. Yeah. If he can take that from her, look at this picture, and feel it, "Big. I love this." Or if, if the volume is too big, "I feel so loved right now. Thank you for loving me when I was in the boat underwater. I got to you, man. This is so great." And that way she doesn't have to volley. She's already hit it, and he is returning it. She's getting to witness that experience, but she doesn't have to participate in it. You get what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. No, that, that's, it gives her a really safe distance, but still feel included. Yeah. And then slowly, hopefully, she can feel his, not that he's measuring himself, but she can feel the welcomeness, and that brings that back. Mhm.
All right. Here's the U. And again, I am spitballing here. I don't know where she falls on that spectrum. So, you modulate that for your daughter and your house and your husband, right? Yeah. You called, your first question was, "How do I help her and help him?" The greatest gift you can give them is that you be okay. I knew you were going to say that. Okay. You have to have a group of women that you just can weep with, laugh with, that you build a new routine with. Yeah. I think that's something I'm, I'm constantly working on because we're a little older for this, the military force than most of them. And like, I'm not, I don't drink when my husband goes out. So, I don't fall into like the wine mom military category. So, it's kind of, I know it's really, really wild and out there, but. No, you're, you're, I can tell you're wise. So, good for you. But I mean, you could, you could host at your house, like, like the no complaint zone. Like, we're going to invite the wives over, and I'm going to be the wise old, the old mom, right? Like, whatever. Um, my wife and I waited for a long time to have kids, so we fall, I mean, most of our, our kids' parents are 10 years younger than us, and so we, uh, like, we kind of serve in that, like, "Hey, what do y'all think about this?" "Hey, can we talk this afternoon?" Like, and that's cool and awesome, but for you, and that routine, and especially for your daughter too, but I'm just going to set that up Tuesdays and Thursday nights at our house. Yeah. And maybe one person shows up, maybe four people, and you just have to go be weird. Yeah. And then you've got to commit to, I love that you set some boundaries for yourself. I just don't want to be the, I don't want to, because you'll find yourself 24 months in knocking off a bottle of wine at night and just be like, "Oh, gosh, talking about housewives of," like, you don't want to be that person. And I love you for that. Like, yeah. Um, but you're going to have to backfill that with with something more than a nine-year-old with special needs. Yeah. I, I mean, I do work, and that helps too. So, I, I'm a. No, it doesn't. No, it doesn't. It doesn't help. Oh, I get to build other people, and that's the fantastic part of my job. I get to be a personal trainer for strength training. I do like strongman and Olympic lifting, and I get to take these women who, you know, look at grocery bags and think it's heavy, and they get a whole new aspect on life, you know, by the end of it. I know. But who, who are you allowing to build you? Yeah. I've got a couple of besties that they live too far away. You're right. So, we do a phone call like once a week, but it doesn't, it does not fill the hole. You're right, my friend. But I, maybe you sign up for a race, or you sign up for a competition, or you sign up for line dancing. I don't know. Like, it's you signing up for something, you being a part of something. But if, here's, here's what, here's what I'm getting at. You're going to find yourself devoting your life to other people, which is beautiful and amazing. But if it comes at the expense of you being well and whole, you're going to have, you're going to be a completely depleted person when your husband walks in that door. And it's, you're not doing this just for him. You're going to have, you're going to, you're not, you're slowly going to not have anything to give this daughter, to give your husband, to give yourself, to give these clients of yours unless you also have on the calendar, schedule time per day, per week, per month. And as a single mom of a special needs kid, this, these are fleeting times, right? It's not easy. But where I am allowing somebody else to build me up, whether that's a yoga instructor, like, take a new class, come back, and you know, Spanish. I don't know what it is, but or when he comes back, you know, Spanish, but allowing yourself, I, to be the best version of myself for all these other people who I love and care about. I have to go first for me. And that starts with you looking in the mirror every morning when you're tired and exhausted saying, "I'm worth an hour today. I'm worth two hours today. I." It's such an honor to talk to you. Anything you need, you call me and call anytime. Thank you for being serving our country at home, keeping this thing locked down. Thank your husband for what he does. Um, playing hide-and-seek in the depths. Thank you so much for everything about your, your willingness to call in today. I'm super grateful. Anything we can do to help over this journey, you never hesitate to call us. You're a hero.
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All right, let's go to Milwaukee and talk to Dean. Hey, Dean. What's up? Hi, Dr. John. How are you? I'm doing great, brother. How are you, man? Good. Good. Great to talk to you. You too. What's up? So, uh, I'll just, I'll just start with my question and then we can go from there. Um, so me and my wife are trying to figure out how to tell our daughter it's, it's time to move out without making her feel like, you know, we're kicking her out. That's a tough one because one of the hardest things for parents to come to grips with is that we cannot manage somebody else's feelings, right? We can be respectful and treat people with dignity and do the next right thing, and then they get to absorb that, hear that, feel that. Yeah. In their own way. Sure. Yeah. So, how old are you guys? Um, my, my wife and I are in our late 50s, and we've been married 34 years. Three children. Yeah. Congrats. Yeah. Great. How old's your daughter? Thank you. Um, our youngest daughter is the one I'm, I'm calling about. She's 24. Okay. So, why do you want her gone?
Well, um, the main reason is I, I'm just thinking, actually, when I say I, we, me and my wife are on the same page with this, but, but we don't see that there's going to be growth for her continuing to stay with us. Um, she moved out, uh, when she went to school. She went to school for two years at a local state college. Um, and then didn't continue on. Didn't wasn't sure what she wanted to do. So, we, of course, told her, "You're, you're always welcome to come back home." Um, I guess we weren't thinking it was going to last this long. Uh, no way. No. See, we had with our two older ones, we had similar situations where when they graduated from college, they did come back home, but it was three, six months, somewhere around there. Sure. And then they moved on. They moved out, uh, with roommates or a partner. Uh, and we're just trying to figure out the best way to, uh, tell, tell our daughter that it's time. Uh, because again, I don't see any growth with her staying with us. She's a little bit of a reserved person, so she spends a lot of time in her room. She's a reader. She watches movies, but, um.
Is she working? She is working. Yes. Uh, a little fact, she works actually with me at my job. Okay. So, I get to see her pretty regular. Um, she's a great kid. We don't have any issues with her. Um, she helps around the house. She does dishes. She'll cook a meal or two during the week. She helps mow the grass. Oh, man. She's very financially responsible. She's been working since she was 14 and has a huge savings account. Um, we've discussed, you know, her buying a home 'cause she has a really nice nest egg to purchase a home. Um, and, and she just kind of says, "Yeah, yeah, I'm, I'm looking." Um, but that's where it kind of stops.
So, I, I love this conversation because she's not, I get this call a lot, but it's often, "I've got a kid who's just laying around and won't get a job," or "I've got a kid who's smokes weed all day and plays video games, but doesn't want to go X, Y, and Z." You don't have that. You've got a pretty amazing young woman who is at 24 finding herself in what I think is the great trap of the 21st century, which is comfort. Yes. It's just comfortable. And she sounds like she's an amazing person of character because she's helping out all over the place. She's not just, she's, she sounds like she's awesome, but she's also just comfortable. Yes, she's great. We go on vacations with her and my other children. Um, she, you know, she is a great person. Can I high five you and your wife, dude? That's amaz, y'all have done amazing. Amazing. Yeah. Thank you. That's awesome. Thank you. So, I, here's where I think this is pretty cool. And y'all get to do a couple of things. I want you and your wife to, and you probably have already done this, but I'm gonna say this for the listeners. I want y'all to begin to dream about the third and fourth quarter of your life. Statistically speaking, you may be at the beginning of the fourth quarter, or you may be in the middle of the third quarter, but what do we want our life to look like? Who do we want to be as empty nesters? Yes.
So, we, we definitely have discussed that the third and fourth quarter of our life. We were empty nesters for about two years. So, we got a taste of it when our youngest, um, went to school for two years. So, we were, we had the house to ourselves, which we were, we enjoyed. Not that we don't love our kids, but we enjoyed. Oh, you don't got to qualify it. I can't wait. It's going to be awesome. We, we, yes, we were kind of excited to finally be empty nesters and and get on with the next chapter. Awesome. Um, yeah. I, I think that's where I would start because one of the, this is a truism in marriage, like conflicts or marriage conversations is always starting with the words "I" instead of "you." Okay. And so if you sit down and say, "All right, you are the most amaz," I just started with you there, but I want to say, "You have far surpassed our dreams for you as a person of character. You're a hard worker. You're a key part of our business. I hope you take it over someday." I don't know if that's true or not. I just put those words in your mouth. But you're a great saver. You help run this house. You are amazing. And I, your mom and I are in the middle of our third quarter. And we want to begin to head off into the back half of our life as empty nesters. And so we're going to come up with a plan for you to begin moving out. Yeah. And that will be three months, six months. You are, we love you, and you are ready to fly. And because y'all are on great terms, I don't know, in my house, it would be a laughter-filled, "This is us kicking you out of the nest," and it would, but it'd be a fun, it'd be a funny conversation. That's not every household, right? Yeah.
I think it might help to try to bring some humor to the conversation. I, I think she might be nervous about, of course, the fact that that we would be telling her, "Yeah, you have to go." And, and tell us, "We love you so much that we can't let you continue to be this awesome third roommate of ours." Yeah. We love you so much. We want you to get out there and find your 35-year marriage. We want you to get out there and have your own house, build your own equity. Like, we love you that much. Yeah. But if you, if you notice all my language is, "We want, we love you, we are making these boundaries," not, "You've been here too long, you need to get out, it's time you go get a house." This is all y'all taking full ownership of how y'all feel and what y'all want to do next. Yes. Yeah. And then you're feel.
Ob, obviously, say we hope you hear this in love. But we also know you're 24, and you're our kid, and you may just be like, "They kicked me out!" And y'all can laugh and be like, "We're kind of kicking you out of the nest, but we know you can fly." Right? Right. Right. She can totally fly. She's an intelligent young woman. Of course. Uh, it's just going to be an uncomfortable, I believe, you know, I think more for my wife, maybe than me, just because I, you know, she's a little more sensitive to this subject. Sure. Uh, it, it just might be a, but I think also you'll let her know, "We are not being fair to you." Yeah. "We are beginning to get accustomed to having a maid/roommate/somebody paying rent." Like, I don't know how she, how y'all function, but that's not fair to you. Yeah. "We aren't loving you to our full capacity by letting you stay in this nest forever." Yeah. And so I would also give her a runway. You got three months. You got 90 days. You get six months. Y'all get to decide that. Yeah. And, and by the way, she does, she does pay rent. That was one of the criteria. I mean, so I mean, go ahead. I say, "Y'all get to say, like, we're going to lose money on this deal. We're going to have to hire a, a, a yard person." Like, yeah. "We, this will come at a cost to us, too, 'cause we love having you here. And it's becoming increasingly unfair to you." Yeah.
And here's the thing. She might laugh. She might cry. She might hug y'all. She, it sounds like she's going to be somebody that's going to say, "I know." She might be. I think that that's a, probably a, a fair statement, at least from in my mind, that she might already have a sense, just in the back of her mind, that this may be coming. Well, and some kids, like, especially good young folks like, like you've raised, she might be worried about y'all. And you get kind of this figure. It's kind of like the infinity loop. There's like, y'all love having her around, but gosh, she's 24. She's got to get out and get on her own and start building her own sea legs. And also, I don't like being 24 and living with my parents, but man, they need the extra help. And I like being here to give them a little extra money. And, and if one person breaks that dance, sometimes everybody exhales. They're like, "Okay, good. Thank you." Right? Right. Right. And maybe not. Maybe it's both, but it, it may be all that, all in one big mush pot. But I also think, "I'll help you." "I will go, you, you get five houses that you want to go look at. I'll go. We, we'll both go with you." Yeah. Yeah. Um, "I'll sit with you when you sign your first mortgage. I will, like, I'll do all those things with you." Um, this is just, it's like, "We're old. It's time for us to kick you out of the nest. We're not being fair." Yeah. Yeah. "We need her. We need her to grow." And I, and again, I'm not certain that that's happening. And that, that's, we're doing her a disservice by allowing her to stay with us. If I'm, if I'm explaining myself correctly. I, I think you're, I think that's, she sounds like a wise, wise young woman. And I think she will hear that. Even if she won't like it, it won't feel good, she will understand that. Yeah. Yeah. I hope so. Yeah.
But every bird kicks their baby out of the nest, not because the bird's mean, but because the bird knows this little bird has to learn to fly, or it's gonna die. It's not gonna make it. And so we've given you two years, three years. We're all here stable. We want to push ourselves to be uncomfortable, to figure some things out in the back half of our life. And the best way we can love you is to let you get out there and be uncomfortable in the world so you can develop your own strength, your own sea legs, your own fill in the blank. So, yeah, I think this is a great conversation. And expect there to be tears, expect there to be frustration, expect there to be, "Well, I didn't think..." All of that is a normal part of this exchange. But the more you and your wife can say "I" and "we" instead of "you," the, the more honest this conversation becomes. So, good on you, brother, for raising good, for having a great marriage, for raising three great kids, and for not allowing the comfortable option for everybody, which is, dude, we have somebody paying rent. We got some extra money. We got extra hands around the house. We're going to love our daughter enough to let her fly. You're awesome, Dean. Thanks for the call, brother. We'll be right back. I love my poncho shirts. If you've seen me on this show or on stages across the country, I'm almost always wearing poncho shirts. I wear poncho when I'm fishing in the Gulf. And I was wearing poncho shirts this weekend while I was mowing out here in my little miniature farm out here outside of Nashville. I'm telling you, you should wear poncho shirts, too, because Poncho makes the absolute best outdoor performance shirts for men. Period. I love their denims and their insanely soft flannels, but right now it's super hot outside and I'm wearing Poncho's ultra-light shirts all the time. They're lightweight, they're breathable, and they're still tough enough to handle whatever chaos my day brings. Everything from travel to being up to my chest in the surf or doing wild yard work. These shirts move with you, not against you. They dry fast and they don't cling or bunch up. And they come in slim and regular fits so you don't have to walk around looking like a circus tent. Here's what I want you to do. Head over to ponchooutdoors.com/deloney and check out the selection of my favorite shirts on there, like the Laram and the Buffalo. And right now, new customers get $10 off from your first purchase when you sign up with your email. That's $10 off at ponchooutdoors.com/deloney.
All right, we are back and we've got a money and marriage question. By the way, our money and marriage retreat here in Nashville, Tennessee, in, we have one in November and we have one Valentine's Day weekend. They are selling super fast. I don't even know if they're, they may be sold out, but they're selling fast. Go check them out. We'd love to have you here. They always sell out. We got people from all over the planet coming in. Um, would love to have you and your spouse with us here in Nashville. Um, you can go to johndeloney.com and check it out for events or go to ramseysolutions.com/events and find out where you can get tickets. All right, here's a question. We have an anonymous box at money and marriage and people put questions in and we got so many great ones that, um, I'm reading a few on the show every once in a while. So, here we go. Here's an anonymous question that we got during the money and marriage event. "My spouse and I are in a sexless marriage, once per month, and that's if I don't mess it up. She feels that we have plenty of sex. Obviously, I feel differently. I've been this way our whole marriage, despite me trying everything I know. What am I missing?" Wow. Um, it's hard for me to just to say, "What am I missing?" because there is so much here. The place I would start if you were sitting with me is, this is more than likely not about the act of sex. This is about safety in a relationship. This is about trauma. This is about, um, physical health. Whether it's hormonal, whether it is vaginismus, whether it is, um, a lack of attraction. This is about maybe you not participating in how the house runs, or she doesn't feel loved in this house. She doesn't feel seen or heard or known in this house. Yet you swoop in and say, "I want to do it." Or it could be she doesn't like some of the questions, some of the conversations we've had at this money marriage. I really want to have sex, but I am grossed out by how I look in the mirror and our, I feel less than in the bedroom and so I don't want to reciprocate. There's a lot here. But often the, the act of how many numbers of time we are having intercourse becomes a proxy conversation, becomes a proxy war for a whole host of issues going on in a marriage. And so I would sit all the way back and ask questions like, "Tell me where you feel loved and safe in this marriage. Tell me what love looks like for you. Tell me what, what you love about the physical act of having sex. What do you not love about it? How do I make you feel during the lead-up, during foreplay, during intimacy, during 8:00 in the morning when I'm hoping we have sex at 8:00 that night? How do I show up in our marriage in a way that makes you feel so safe and so loved that you want to be with me in this way?" and begin having some of those conversations. If this has been going on for a long time, and honestly, the way you say, "If I don't mess it up," that tells me that it's some, your wife, in some ways, is using sex as a bargaining chip or as a weapon or as a means of control. Maybe she's just awful. Maybe it's the only lever she feels like she has in a house where she's got no voice. You take care of the money. You take care of the job. You take care of where we all go on vacations, and this is the only lever she's got. There's so much here for potential conversations. Um, I would recommend you starting the conversation this way. "Honey, I made us an appointment with a local marriage counselor because I want to love you the best way that I know how, and I have realized that I am not communicating in a way that you feel heard or loved, and that I don't feel like I am loved in this marriage. Would you please go come with me?" That's how I would probably start this conversation. But libido differences, "I want to do it more, she wants to do it less." "I want to do it more, he wants to do it less." Um, that's very, very common in marriages. And it is also common that one or more partners use this as a weapon, as a bargaining chip, and that's never healthy. So, I would stop the conversation about the act of, "Can we have intercourse? Can we have intercourse?" and ask a much deeper question. "How are we doing? You don't feel loved, and I don't feel loved. Let's get to the bottom of that conversation first." Thank you so much for, for listening to the show, everybody. Be nice to each other. Be kind out in the world. [Music]