Transcription
There has never been a Christian nation. You don't live in one now. We had godly people get on boats and come over here so they could worship. Godly people. We've had the greatest Bible preachers in the 15, 16, 1700s, godly people. Some of the people that constructed this country, godly people. But it has never been a Christian nation. And never will be. Listen. There never will be a Christian nation. Because after all this is over, there will be a kingdom. For a nation to be Christian, it would have to honor and serve glorify and obey everything that the Bible teaches. So, I just want to say just because we have scriptures on our our monuments and our buildings and just because we acknowledge our creator in our creeds and constitution does not make this a Christian country. I know I pound the pulpit a lot. I watched it the other day and I point, pound, and I go back and forth and I'm always looking angry. I always do it. I wish I couldn't I wish I could just not look angry. And I'm not angry. I got a job to do, you see? We're not a Christian nation.
>> Pastor Loren Livingston of Central Church in Charlotte, North Carolina stood in his pulpit during America's 250th birthday year and told his entire congregation and now millions of people online that the United States has never been a Christian nation. Not now, not ever. That's before you assume you know which side he's on. Stay with me because this sermon doesn't fit neatly into either side of America's culture war and that's exactly why it's got Christians arguing with each other right now. Welcome back to the channel. If you're new here, we cover ministry news, church accountability, and the moments where faith and public life collide. Always to give you the full picture, not just the viral clip. This is a story that is made for viral clips. A pastor telling a room full of American Christians their country isn't and never was a Christian nation. That's the kind of sound bite that gets cut up and shared a thousand different ways within hours, usually stripped of context. So, before we react to it, here's the sermon in full, in his own words.
>> Listen very carefully to your pastor, and I'm smiling now. There has never been a Christian nation. Never. There will never be a Christian nation. After all this is gone and said and done, there will be a kingdom. The kingdom of our Lord Jesus Christ. By the way, before I go any more into this, there's no such thing as a liberal Christian or a conservative Christian. There's just Christian. You can't stretch the scriptures to a point that you say, "Well, I'm liberal in my thinking." No, sir. You can't do that. It's just just like, as we all know, there's no such thing as a white Christian, a black Christian, and no such thing as a black church in America. I preach on this all the time. There's no such thing as white evangelical. All that is man-made stuff, a result of fornication between government and people. No, sir. Christianity is pure. It is about Jesus. It's about Father, Son, Holy Spirit, sin, SALVATION, SHED BLOOD, walking in the spirit, living by the word, looking for Jesus to come back, living a life worthy of the calling, walking in holiness and purity all the days of your life. That's Christianity. And you can't lean it one way or the other. Jesus was not a liberal or a conservative. He was THE SON OF GOD. He is the savior. I believe he is the only way to heaven. He's the only door. He's the only life. He's the only light. YOU CAN'T LEAN THAT WAY AND SAY SOMETIMES HE IS AND OTHER THINGS SOMETIMES HE ISN'T. NO, SIR. He is the way, the truth, the life and no man can come into the Father unless they come THROUGH THE SON.
>> [applause]
>> YOU SAY A CHRISTIAN NATION? WELL, a Christian nation would honor God all the time in everything. A Christian nation would serve the Lord God all the time in every way. A CHRISTIAN NATION WOULD OBEY ALL THE COMMANDMENTS of God. That has never happened. It's not happening now. Just because we have scriptures on our monuments and buildings and just because we have an acknowledgement of a creator in our Constitution and our creeds does not make this a Christian country. Godly people were part of its inception. Good godly people who believed the Bible. This nation was founded to believe in God. Preachers traverse this continent and this world preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ, but not everybody believed it and not everybody did it. You see, I I I'll repeat myself. A Christian is somebody born from above. Born again. A Christian is someone who abides in Christ and Christ abides in him. And so for any nation to be a Christian nation, those same definitions apply. That nation would have to be born from above and abide in Christ and walk in the truth. Let me just tell you something. A Christian nation would never have killed and displaced 20 million Native Americans who are still left out and living in poverty. A Christian nation would never have thought that owning slaves was pleasing to God or that it lined up with scripture in any way, shape, or size. And we not only practiced it, but we were so obsessed with it that we went to war about it. We had a civil war. And in that civil war, 500,000 Americans died. That's more than American Americans that died in World War II or any other war we've ever had. Our own civil war, we killed 500,000 of our own people so people could have the right to own other people as property. No Christian nation would murder 80 million unborn babies, mostly minorities. Let me tell you something, the most racist stance you can have is pro-choice. I'm pro-choice. You're for that movement, you're for that idea that babies can just be tossed aside when most of them are minorities to start with. How racist can you be? Do you think a Christian nation would be gender confused? Do you think a Christian nation would finance and fund the butchering of children to change their sex? Do you think a Christian nation would put up with a bunch of mindless adults who abuse children by advising them to have sex changes when they're not even old enough to understand what sex is? No Christian nation would praise and promote same-sex union or any other perverted union other than one man and one woman. And that's the only definition of marriage, by the way. The conscience of a Christian nation would not let it spend billions of dollars on sports stadia while poor, hungry, jobless people sit in the shadows of those arenas in rat-infested, run-down housing. No, a a Christian nation's conscience wouldn't put up with that. No Christian nation's heart would allow sports and entertainment to be more important than Bible knowledge. And and and BASIC SKILLS IN LIFE LIKE READING and writing and adding and subtracting. No Christian nations would let its school system go unfunded while only the athletic and the wealthy have all the opportunities. A Christian nation would weep and do something about its military vets living in the streets. A Christian [snorts] nation would not allow sick, poor people to suffer because they cannot get medicine because big pharma corporations charge too much money. No, a Christian nation would have a heart that would say, "That is unacceptable. People need medicine and relief. They need help." No Christian nation would remove the Bible and prayer from anything. Not just schools, but anything, anywhere. So, I think you get the point today. God bless America. I'm so thankful to be an American. I thank God almost every day that I I was privileged to be born a citizen of the United States of America, the greatest country that's ever lived. Don't clap. I'm preaching. If you don't clap about Jesus, do not clap about the United States. You You can wear a cross around your neck all you want to, but that does not make you a Christian. What does make you a Christian? Repenting of your sins. Obeying the commandments of Jesus Christ. Honoring God in all that you do. Taking care of your neighbor. Living outside of yourself for the good of God and somebody else. I have become obsessed with this idea of the church remaining pure. You've heard me preach long enough to know when I preach on false prophets and false teachers and devils' doctrines and things like that, there was a passion in me that rises up like a blistering fire because I know the devil is trying to slither into the congregation. And when I see people who are equally committed to their government and their party as they are to the church, it drives me insane because you cannot serve two masters. And I know Jesus was talking about money when he said that, but I'm telling you that you cannot have equal passion for the nation or the party or your race or your culture than you have for Jesus Christ. They that you cannot mix it. It's one or the other. You either love this out here or you love him who loved us and gave himself for us. That doesn't mean you don't have pity and compassion. That doesn't mean you don't get involved, BUT IT MEANS WHEN ALL IS SAID and done, when it's all over that he is king. He is Lord. He is worthy. HE IS MINE. I AM his and my LIFE IS IN CHRIST AND CHRIST'S LIFE IS IN ME.
>> OKAY, so why does Livingston say America has never been a Christian nation? Breaking down his actual argument, it comes down to a handful of points. First, his definition. For Livingston a Christian nation isn't about having scripture on monuments or God mentioned in founding documents. It would mean a nation that actually honors, obeys, and lives out everything the Bible teaches as a whole nation, not just individual believers within it. Second, the historical case. He points to specific chapters of American history. He says disqualify that label outright. The displacement and killing of Native American populations and the institution of slavery, which he notes was defended by many as compatible with Christian faith, and which ultimately split the country into a civil war that killed more Americans than any other conflict in the nation's history, including World War II. Third, the present-day case. He extends the same standard into today's headline issues. which he frames in explicitly racial terms, gender-affirming care for minors, and same-sex relationships, which he says a Christian nation wouldn't celebrate. In the same breath though, he turns the exact same standard on economic and social issues. Stadium spending next to poverty, veterans sleeping on the street, and pharmaceutical pricing keeping sick people from medicine. That combination is what's tripped a lot of people up. It's not a sermon that lines up cleanly with either side of American politics. He's calling out things conservatives care about and things progressives care about back to back under the same argument. And that's exactly where the reaction has split. Some commentators, including at least one writing for a religion and politics outlet, have argued Livingston isn't really rejecting Christian nationalism at all. Their point, because he still takes a hard line on LGBTQ he's just promoting a different version of a Christian-influenced country rather than true separation of church and state. Others, from a more theologically conservative lane, have pushed back the opposite way, arguing his framing goes too far in telling Christians their citizenship is only in heaven at the expense of civic responsibility when they believe Christians should be more engaged in public life, not less. Worth noting too, this isn't Livingston's first time in this exact spotlight. Back in April 2024, he went viral for calling the Trump-endorsed God Bless the USA Bible, which bundled scripture with the Constitution and Bill of Rights, disgusting and blasphemous. So, this sermon fits a pattern for him, not a one-off. And the timing here isn't neutral either. This is landing in the middle of the country's 250th anniversary and in a political climate where Bible-related education initiatives and prominent Christian leaders have been closely tied to the current administration. We're not going to litigate those politics here, but that contrast is a big reason this clip is traveling as fast as it is. So, is America a Christian nation? Was it ever? Livingston says no, and he's not the first to make that argument, but he may be one of the most direct. Whether you agree with every point in that sermon or not, it's worth hearing in full rather than in a 30-second clip, because the full version resists easy labels. I want to know where you land on this. Drop a comment. Do you think Livingston's sermon holds together, or do you think he's picking and choosing which un-Christian things to call out? Like this video if you want more full context ministry commentary. Subscribe if you're new, and I'll see you in the next one.