Meet the PT who made millions before his 24th birthday.

There is a guy called Shan Casey in the fitness industry. Now, you may not have seen him because this video is on YouTube, but if you're on Instagram, Facebook, or TikTok, you will definitely know the face. Sean is too humble to brag about it, but he is a multi-millionaire at the age of 24. I think he would have hit that accolade maybe even at 23 or 22. He runs several successful businesses: from recipe books, an online training app called Glean, and even a business very similar to mine, helping coaches grow their social media platforms. And he is a very, very impressive person.

I know Shan personally as a peer and even a friend, and in this video today, I'm going to reveal some of the tactics you may not have noticed that he uses to not only grow his business to massive heights but to have one of the strongest personal brands not only within the fitness industry but within the entrepreneurial space as a whole. And the best part is this video isn't just about sucking his dick; I'm also going to interject some footage of some things that we constructively disagree on, so that you are armed with both sides of the argument to decide which one you feel is closer aligned to you and your values. Because ultimately, our stance on business is going to be influenced by our own journey. Sean boasts millions of followers across social media, so what I'm going to do now is go into a bit of a deep dive into why exactly he doesn't just get millions of views but has some of the most engaging content our industry has ever seen. So let's get into it.

So, for quite a while now, I've been using Shan as an example within my business mentorship when it comes to hooks, setups, payoffs. This guy is truly a master, and the crazy thing is I think he's 24. I was 24 when I became a personal trainer, so we're going to analyze some of the things that Shan does right that you can also imitate, too, even if you're not a personal trainer. And yes, I need to put glasses on because I'm old; I'm not 24 anymore, I am 35. First of all, we start at the top: Sean Casey Fitness. I'm sure if Shan Casey was available, he'd take it. Name: Online Coach. And here I really like that this is really simple: simple recipes and fitness tips. Now, one of the things that we should really attribute to Sean here is the genius behind having the dichotomy between food and fitness, because fitness content isn't always the sexiest. You got to remember everyone eats, so interjecting the odd recipe can really do amazing things for views and engagements. A lot owner of Social Circle, Sean actually operates a similar business to mine, in the sense that he helps people build and grow their social media followings. We're semi-aligned on a lot of things, and we actually disagree on a few things later in this video. I'm going to actually share long-form footage of that. Sean has done what every personal trainer wants to do, and he has diversified to create a fitness app where you can bring in coaches underneath him and, in essence, step back to just marketing the business, which is what I do with my affordable online coaching platform, and what most top fitness businesses eventually have to do. And Sean won't mind me saying this, but he made millions from his recipe books.

However, before we get into the content, let's just quickly understand this: I'm a big believer that it wasn't just Sean's recipes that got him so many purchases. I think he accrued a lot of goodwill over a long period of time. Actually, here: 1300 posts, but each one of these posts is very strategic. I'll explain why. Sean's ability to present hooks is top-level in the game. Here's how much sugar is in this one tiny chocolate bar. So like, even with just that initial, "this is how much sugar's in a chocolate bar," it leaves you just wanting to know, okay, where's he going with this? Seeing this in front of your face might be making you really rethink your decision to eat chocolate bars like this because of the amount of sugar that's in it. And that's a fair point. We get to this point, I'm like, you know what, that does look like a lot of sugar. I wouldn't eat that much sugar in front of me, so why would I eat the chocolate bar? Let me show you another example. Let's just move this over here. Feel like I'm back at uni again. We've got this self-deprecating banter that alludes to the fact that earlier on in life he had a drug problem, or that he did too much cocaine. He's very much humanizing himself here, which is a fantastic way to put content across. Also, now, if this is the first video you've ever seen, you start to think, wow, this guy is actually quite real. Someone who was trying to come across as perfect would not have said that. Perfect. This is two apples, and I think we'll all agree that the apples are going to be a much more nutrient-dense choice than the chocolate bar, of course, given this is the amount of sugar, and two apples. It's worth noting as well that the two apples combined have less calories than the chocolate bar, but still more sugar, so the apple is actually a more sugar-dense food than the chocolate bar. So this is what I would call an "aha" moment, and this is really what you want to try and give people across content. If you can give people these "aha," "Oh well, I never knew that," "Oh, do you know," moments. It sounds crazy, someone's life is never going to be the same after this video. And that's one of the most powerful things that you can put into content. I remember maybe 15 years ago seeing a reel by a guy called Phil, and it said, "An RDL doesn't need to touch the floor," and I was like, wow, I'd never got lower back pain ever again from RDLs, from one video. You have the opportunity to change someone's life for the better, better with every single post. And just to make this a fair comparison, we will uh, rack them into similar shapes. Perfect. Now, what is the purpose of this video? Is it—another thing here is to look at the setup. We've got nice front lighting, but you can see to the side of Sean's face he's getting a little bit more natural lighting to the side, which is great. This is called like Rembrandt lighting, which makes it look good. We got a nice depth in the background; it looks like a family home. It's nice; it's pleasant to look at. If you're a woman on a weight loss journey, this is potentially the most important video you ever watch, 'cause if you're a woman on a weight loss journey, 50% of the population are women, and probably about 90% of them are on a weight loss journey. Sean just spoke to over three billion people. Okay. Another thing Sean's been a master at, and I'll admit I've been learning this from him, his ability to put together good carousel posts, and he usually goes back in time, talks about previous times; he can create amazing story arcs. We have story arcs through good content where you have hook, setup, you know, some kind of story, and a payoff at the end, but you can actually do these in carousels as well, and you can reach out to people that maybe aren't in the mindset to watch a video. And I guarantee you, as we get towards the end, you know, feel-good picture. Wow, love this. You can eat chocolate and lose weight. You can statement hook: You can eat chocolate and lose weight—the dream. I'm watching, eating a 300-calorie chocolate bar and then burning 300 calories directly after. This is usually the part of the video where you expect me to be out running with my top off, keeping track of how many calories I'm burning, but I'm not going to do that because I'm not a clampet. Instead, very deadpan. Sean should be an inspiration to a lot of people that maybe don't have massive extroverted characters, 'cause he can do so well with—if you had a large amount of salt to your meal, you will gain weight the next day, even if you're in a calorie deficit. You can tell that this has probably been born from the fact that Sean has seen someone somewhere talk about salt and weight gain, so he's then taken a talking point that someone's talks about and turned it into a hook. Sean also uses "personal trainer and fitness professional," just catching the egg, just gives like a little bit of pattern interrupt. This is where things get interesting. So we're about to go into a food reel, but what I want you to realize is I take in—sec—it's worth of air-fried lunches in under 10 minutes. That is beautiful. Literally, town out of town. Gentle. There's a few things in life that I can't—this is the beginning of the video. It may seem that that part was the beginning of the video, but actually, Sean, from the entire video, cooked everything, prepped everything, then at the end of the video he recorded the introduction because he has the food, and he filmed the introduction so that we can get the hook being a visual hook with the outcome, which is what I'd call a preview hook. Here's how a—me prep a—you film the whole thing, then at the end, this is how meal prep a week's worth of food. So is a great thing to do as well. So like a preview hook could be like a trailer to a film. Preview hook can be like in vlogs when something's happening. There's a trend at the moment where you kind of use a preview hook where you talk about subtle foreshadowing. I think it's called—it's worth of air-fried lunches in under 10 minutes. So then we've got this time-restrictive thing. Wow, air-fried lunches under 10 minutes. That sounds amazing because lunches, to me, is something that is labor and requires a lot of effort, and you know, w—that that looks good. Wow, that is beautiful. Literally, town out of town. And then you see him enjoying it, which is kind of enjoyable if you're part of the two million people that fall short, and you want to see him having a good time, then this bit is genius. Jant. There's a few things in like—sharing a bit with his dog. He's a nice guy. This guy is uh, you know, he he's generous; he's a generous king. All right, let's go a little bit further down the boys. So Sean and I are friends, and it's quite funny. I I mentioned him once in a hook, and he uses that video now to get views. I will say one thing as well: I have been incredibly impressed by Sean and the footage of us having a debate, the maturity that this guy has, being 24, is is crazy. Like, is genuinely crazy how someone can have so much intelligence at that age. I joke about him being autistic, but I don't think I've given him credit enough to his face, but he'll be watching this; he'll be watching this. He's a very impressive guy, and although we have similar businesses, I don't think I could ever honestly sit and go objectively what I do is better than him, whether it's fitness, whether it's coaching, whether it's whatever, because he's just very, very good at things. And here's the best part: Sean openly has admitted being inspired and learning from me, but now, even as someone 10 years ahead of him, 11 years ahead of him, I continue to learn from him as well. And this is really, you know, what it what it takes. You've got to be open to learning from people; you got to admire them. And there have been times that I've seen Sean do better than me. He's got more followers than me on Instagram, but rather than feeling bitter about that, I feel inspired by it. And I'll take you on a little b-story here, which is again part of the story arc. So here we got Darren, one of my best mates, got Sean, this guy here, Adam Sullivan. It's called evidence-based training. This guy in Australia started crushing it. I'm talking millions a month. I think this guy at one point made £200,000 in a week. It's got the Lambos, got everything. I blocked this guy, and that wasn't because of him, that was because of me. And although it's very easy for me to be inspired by people I see online, for some reason with Adam I didn't feel inspired; I felt bitter. And I unblocked him in April, and we're now very good friends. I said to him, "Hey, mate, just for me," I think I had exhausted the part of my brain that was getting motivated and inspired by people. But yeah, I've actually learned so much from these people, with my peers. Sean, his hooks, the ability—he does all of his content with an iPhone. Fact: He still lives at home with his parents, which is such a tactical player. I love that he loves his family as well, but you know that plays into the to the brand. When he moves into a mansion, which he he's going to rub a few people the wrong way. Some of those middle-aged women that follow him, they're no longer going to be able to relate to him quite so much, but he's going to be fine. Darren, although he can be a [ __ ] [ __ ] in so many areas of his life, he's got one of the best emotional intelligence. This guy should have been a Turkish spy. Let's just say that. Adam, again, I'll openly admit this is crazy: when I have business discussions with my peers, no matter what angle I take to Adam's, the wealthiest out of all of us, no matter what angle I take to understand Adam's business brain, it is so client-centric. You can ask him anything about business, and it always comes back to his clients' results. And don't get me wrong, the rest of us really care about our client results and business, everything like that, but Adam is obsessed about it, and he has seen the fruition from it. But back to Sean, let's find some outlier reels: 1 million, 6 million, 1 million, 1 million. It's just such good reach. Videos like this really are impactful. 9 million views: or fried pepperoni pizza. This is one of the simplest meal videos I've ever posted, and it tasted incredible. All you're going to do is get two mini wraps, a bit of pizza sauce, and light cheese on each, and then fire—again, it's not even fitness content, it's just content. Look at there: 7 million. Out of every slow cooker recipe I've ever posted, these honey garlic chicken noodles are definitely the people's. So what's really clever here to think about is where I said before that everyone eats. Sean can layer fitness content, fitness content, fitness content, then he can create a WWI of interaction by putting a food reel there, because then people come for the food, they stay for the fitness. That's something that I probably regret—probably regret going to war with Joe Wicks so much back in the day, because kind of, I'm a personal trainer, I'm not a chef, and now, because of it, I've absolutely axed an avenue to get millions of views on my content. Now, here's something as well which is incredibly difficult for any creator to do: Sean is incredibly likable. I think for someone with 2 million followers, he must have the least amount of haters ever, whereas I definitely grew my audience polarizing people and sometimes just being a [ __ ]. I don't think there many people that could honestly say this guy's a [ __ ]. Honey garlic chicken tenders made in the air fryer. Now, an important thing here that I want everyone to take away is if you want to know Sean's superpower, on top of good hooks, on top of being likable, on top of being young, on top of being family-orientated, on top of being a dog lover, on top of having that amazing Irish accent, if you want to know what else he is at: editing, pacing, setups, payoffs—the thing Sean really has mastered is the ability to accrue goodwill. He's tenacious; he turns up every day to just try and deliver as much helpful content as he can, very rarely asking for things in return, so that when his carousel posts do come up with calls to action, people respond. And it's been a pleasure to watch him grow, and I'm very interested to see how his business and brand is going to morph over time. All right, that's enough of the deep dive. So there's a look into some of Sean Casey's social media tactics that I see from the outside, and I'm sure there's even more going on under the surface than I even know about. What I want to do now is take you to the International Fitness Summit earlier this year, and I—A where Sean and I have a discussion over whether or not you should ask for followers or whether or not you should be doing sales calls. There's a lot of value over the next few clips, so I hope you enjoy it.

So what I was keen to do today is pick Sean's brain, have a bit of an open discussion, and see whether or not that would benefit a lot of you guys. First question I have for you: What's the biggest mistake that you think that not just content creators but maybe some of the people in this room are making right now with their social media strategy? Probably overanalyzing and and putting too much stress on the perfect piece of content. It doesn't have to be perfect at the start. Like, there's a like—so when you do anything, even when I public speak, it's it's not going to be great. I'm not great at it, but the only way that you get better at it is by consistently, consistently doing it. See, I'm I'm genuinely not great at public speaking. However, I wasn't great at content at the start. I would I would say I'm at a stage now where I'm semi-decent at content. The only way that you get better is through rep. So you're not you're not looking for perfection at the start; just show up, and you um, you have a very good content style where you're quite comfortable, and people can really see that. And you have to do hundreds of pieces of content to get that comfort, and it's like almost like an attractive force field when someone is just in their flow state, which we can all see in your content. Um, what would you say is your main source of ideation when you're coming up, because it does get difficult. I'm sure everyone in here knows the hardest part is the the idea, right? It's it's not so much what you're talking about; it's the way in which you're talking about it. Everyone's talking about the same things; you're probably going to notice that on stage today everyone is saying similar things. A lot of it comes down to just doing it. So my content creation and my the like—I have a in my phone, so I can't just sit think of content ideas. They come to me at most random times. So I'll be about to fall asleep; it's like 2 a.m., an idea comes to me. I wake up, write it down. So when I'm going to uh, create a bit of content, I go to the notes in my iPhone, and I just get it from there. But it's not it's not about the the topic; it's about the way in which you present that topic, and I think that's what I want people to lean into, because there's no there's no magical secrets. We'll give you some advice and stuff that you can use, but it's it's a lot of it is about the way in which you present this information. Yeah, I would say that I get most my good ideas in the shower. Like, my missus will come in, and I'm like, hanging out the shower, soaking the soaking the floor, just there like trying [ __ ], I just had a good idea for a squeeze page or something like that. Um, I was keen to actually see if there were any things that we we disagree on, and there's one thing in particular that we do, and I I want to hash it out. Why is it you think it's important that you ask people to follow you? Because it works. So if you—how many times have you posted on social media? You have much more views than me and much more collective views, but how many collective followers? Yeah, but this is where the problem comes into, right? If you—I think that one of the biggest trends I've seen recently, and I've been guilty of this, is collating and growing a subprime audience, where one thing we've seen from Adam Sullivan is someone who has a much significantly smaller following than both of us has got twice as many Lambos as we do. So like, there's—is that how I written it? Lambos? It's yeah, it's like it's like vanity metrics, right? And although it looks good, uh, you know, there's no point being a priest with a 14-inch [ __ ]. So like, one thing, you know, and and I've been guilty for this, and I I learned this on uh, YouTube the most, right? Where I was I was actually just trying to be famous on YouTube. I had a bit of a chip on my shoulder that I was late to the game, and then I realized that I'd actually uh, tried to grow an audience of well-bellain. And so the my belief is that if you make great content and people see it and they want to subscribe to it, they will find their own way there. Like, but I think you can more accurately—like, I want people consistently see my content. There's people that I really enjoy their content; I'll see them on my page, and I won't follow them. I'll have to see their content five, six, seven times, and then I'll follow them, whereas if I ask someone to follow me, they'll follow on the first time if they enjoy the content, whereas there's a melty way to do it and an unmelty way to do it. If you go, "Here's three fat loss tips. By the way, if you enjoy this, drop me a follow," people are like, "[ __ ] hell," whereas if you subtly drop it in, take the sting out of it, like often times I'll put a bit of dry humor, so I'll make a video about bread; I'll be like, "If you want more bread-related content, hit the follow. I'll see you tomorrow." It's it's natural; it's flowy, whereas if it's unnatural and it's stingy, people scroll past it. You don't want to sound like every other personal trainer. So I think that there's a right and a wrong way to do a CTA, but there's videos where I've got 300,000 followers from one video, and especially when I'm selling eBooks and stuff like that, if that's a recipe—if that's a recipe video, it's it's helping my business. So I don't think that you grow an audience of cons, as you say, through asking for a follower. Not same thing. Yeah, I think it's about the the type of content that you post. So I really like my audience; I've got a massive audience, but like, they're they're nothing but positive; they're like my my audience is great. So I don't think that the the differentiating factor of your audience is whether or not you've asked for the follow, and it it works. If you look at the results from Social Circle and that—I I would say there's two people that I can see do it well: you and Steve Cracraft, right? You're the only people that I see where it seems natural, and I've seen so many people try and mimic it and completely ruin their content, because when we look at like the story arc of starting a piece of content, we have hook, setup, we might have like a b-story, we might have some kind of like uh, you know, element to it, and then we've got a wrap-up, call to action, whatever, but so many people are murdering their introductions to their uh, videos by trying to get that end product of a follow. Like you said before, you don't you never want to ask for a follow before you've given some sort of value. So if you can take the sting out of it, make it natural, get give something to your audience before you ask them for something. See, if you give the the call to action straight after the hook, people are going to be put off that completely. Yeah, I think for me, one thing that I just don't like the look of is looking beggy. Like, I even like some of the best YouTube creators, some people do, "Oh, yeah, like and subscribe," and you're like, I just don't really like that energy; don't really like that vibe. And again, this isn't say that you're wrong or right, and like you say, too many people are speaking absolutes; they say, "You must do this to get this outcome; you must do this," but I think there's actually an element to that where it probably boils down to the content style of the person doing it. But I would say that in your early stages—

Of content, one of the best ways I can talk about it is acing Goodwill. So what you've done for, you know, years on end now, and what a lot of people in the room probably need to do is, when you start posting content, probably to the first, you know, thousand posts, you're trying to build up a wall of Goodwill with your audience. So many people now have got like 500 followers and they straight away got call to actions: “DM me the word coach and I'll send you a free program.” And you're like, you're asking something from the audience before accruing much of that kind of Goodwill energy from them. And the same people, people want a lot straight away. They see what we have and they're like, “I want the followers, I want the business.” But I showed up every single day posting for eight months. I didn't even have a business; I was just trying to post videos to help people.

So the main intention of posting on social media should be to help people, and the business is that as a byproduct. Whereas if you're just doing it because you want money or you want followers, the money and the followers and everything that I have is a byproduct of trying to help people. Obviously, we use strategy, we use hooks, we use CTAs, all of that, but the primary focus should be just helping people, and all of that comes off the back of it.

Another question—uh, I kind of know the answer to—but I'd be quite interested in people to hear: you're very young, made a lot of money very young, and you could move out, you could move into a nice house, but you still live at home with your parents. Outside of loving your family and wanting to spend time with them, is this a tactic as far as optics for you, your brand, and your business to remain at home?

Uh, my mom makes my bed. Like, I like, I like, she, she does a lot for me, um, and I enjoy living at home. I feel like I'm at a stage where I could move out; I could travel the world. But I, I went to Australia, I went on my own at first. I was quite lonely actually when I first went until I met people. So I could buy a house and do all that stuff now, but I love my family, I love my dogs, I like living at home. It's on brand for what, what people expect from me too. So at 24 years old, I don't, I don't need to move out just because you can do something, and I could do it. It might help with Social Circle sales if I'm like, “I bought my own house, I've done this,” but um, it boils down to, I don't want to, I don't want to at the minute.

Uh, another thing, like, uh, that I feel is a popular topic for people at the moment is to do with the brand now, my position whenever I come across a coach that I work with. Um, so many people try and hide behind a business. My first business was called JS Training, right? I, I was like, “Oh, I need to have a coaching business, and I need to have a picture that represents training; it must have a dumbbell in it.” And then the further I moved away from it, I was like, “I'm not JS Training, I'm not Active Health PT, I'm not, you know, Move Your Body, whatever it is. I'm James Smith, in the same way that you're Sean Casey, and the same way that Alex Hormozi isn't Acquisition.com or School.com; he's Alex Hormozi.” When it comes to establishing like personal brand with the people that you work with, do you tell people to have a business that they, they are part of or that they represent, or you trying to push people to become their own brands?

No, cuz if you build a personal brand, you can do literally anything off that. I started off, built my personal brand, and then I've done one-on-one coaching, I've done group coaching, I've done the app, I've done ebooks, I've done Social Circle. I do talks. So personal brand is the most valuable thing that you can build. So I think more people should focus on building their personal brand and allow the business success to come off the back of that as opposed to, to make like, there's things you can do in the short term. I could do a lot of high-pressure sales calls if I was just starting off without a massive following and make 5K a month and then make 10K a month. But if I'm just doing that, it's not actually sustainable in the long term; it's not something that I enjoy doing. So I just built my personal brand, and then monetization came off the back of that naturally.

So there's some things I actually don't know your stance on which, uh, again, you've got Social Circle, I've got my mentorship. When it comes to people in the room that think, okay, they might have some stagnation in their list, or they might want to push people down their sales funnel closer to the sale, are you someone that's pro to getting people to do sales calls?

Yeah, so this is something that I would actually disagree with you on. I think I hear sales calls, really don't enjoy them at all. But see, at the start, if you've got a few thousand followers, you're getting one or two leads per week, you're not going to make money through email marketing. So how, like, how, how many emails did you send before you made a sale?

Oh, it was about 10 months' worth of email sales. Yeah. So if you had done one or two sales calls, you would have made a sale in the first couple of weeks, probably. It was probably more so that I was trying to sell a PDF that was, it was called the Fat Loss Guide. Uh, I tried giving it away for free, and still no one wanted it. I tried using it, imagine this, right? I, I have pulled the plug then. I even, man, I know. So imagine that this is where you, you think you know what people want. I was like, “Look, here's a PDF, right? I'm going to sell it for £20, and in it it has the ins and outs of macronutrient splits, calorie deficit. Someone reads this, their life's going to be different forever.” One guy bought it, Mahendra. I still remember his name, Mahendra Patel. You know, sometimes I feel like emailing him and just saying thank you. So then when no one bought it, I was like, “Let's put, let's put this asset to use, brother,” right? I said, “Hey, give me your email address, I'll send it to you for free.” No emails. But actually what happened was, the 10th month of emails, it wasn't so much the list growth, it was my offering was wrong. So I sent an email going, “Oh, I'm f***ing off to Australia, do you want, anyone want me to just do your programs? £50 a week.” Got 12 clients. I was like, “Hold on, so you're willing to give me £50 a week, that's fine, but £20 for a PDF, you're not interested.” So for me, for me, it was that my problem is, is that a lot of people out there aren't putting enough output out with content as it is; they're looking for excuses not to do it. And you sit on a 40-minute sales call for someone to at the end go, “Let me talk to my partner about it.” To me, that 40 minutes could have been used creating socials, could have been used to work through the funnel, and actually, I think that, but it, I would say it doesn't have to be an either/or, and I would say it's every single personal trainer that comes to me at the start of their journey. I'm like, “Create content, set time, time aside to create content, get quality content, get people to fill out your form,” which you, you don't really like forms either, because there's a lot of snakes, right? People go, “So how much weight do you want to lose? 6kg.” And, “What would be the implications of if you did accomplish that? How would that make you feel?” But now, tell me, how would that make you feel if you didn't accomplish that? So then you go, “Yeah, it's £900 for coaching.” They go, “It's a bit expensive,” and then they go, “Hold on, Trish, but I thought you said you wanted to lose 6kg for your wedding, or you were going to feel very insecure, and you feel like I absolutely hate that.” But I think on a form, if you ask for someone's name, ask for their goals, uh, say how long you work with people, and give an indication of your price, so when they're hopping on a sales call, they know how much you're going to charge. Put your price per day or per week, so it sounds more manageable. Uh, but 100%, I had to do sales calls at the start to get clients until my following grew. If you have a following, like if you got what the following that we have, I'm not doing sales calls. I don't even hire someone to do my sales calls. I don't like, I don't like the idea. But I think ethical sales calls, if they're actually a sales call to see if someone would be a good fit as opposed to, “Let's hop on and see if you'd be a good fit, but no matter what, I'm going to try and squeeze you for 997.” I don't agree with that, but they're two different things. That if you're a PT at the start of your journey, highly recommend learning how to do sales calls. However, once you build a bit of a following, your content starts doing well, which you should be doing at the same time of sales calls at the start, then you can transition into other strategies like automations and email marketing. But I think the biggest return on investment for time spent in terms of acquiring clients at the start will 100% be through sales calls. See, for me, I would rather that someone through the flow would say, “Hey, here's, here's how much it is, this is what you get, this is why you need it, uh, you know, this is what to expect,” then for that, if you wanted to have phone number contact email, if they wanted to do a casual call or whatever, fine, that could be maybe your part B. If you want more information, book in a call, whatever. But if you tell everyone what it is they're going to get, and then you offer them a money-back guarantee, that call could be done as an onboarding process after the money's in the bank account. So let's say you charge, I don't know, uh, £55 a week as a coach, someone goes, “Oh, can we get on a call?” I would say, “Why don't you pay, join as part of our onboarding process when I'm talking to you about your programs, your goals, what you want, blah, blah, blah, what it is, just to let you know, for the first month of the time working with me, you have a money-back guarantee.” So that you are getting paid for that call to talk to them as a customer, not trying to sell to them, because you should have that sales process as something, even as someone with a small account, because even if someone's only got 150 followers, you should be giving off the aura that you're a fully packed-out, high-functioning, high-agency coach who's got 10 high-paying clients. Cuz when I started out, I just wanted 10 clients, not even 15, and I want them to see me three times a week, because to me, managing 10 people's admin was way easier than doing 30 people's admin. They just saw me more frequently, and they would have had more money. So what I don't want is to gaslight myself into thinking, “Oh, I've already got 150 followers, so therefore I should be, you know, I'll jump on sales calls.” And also, when people look into your diary, right, they go on Calendly, and they see a f***ing open diary. “Oh, you can talk to me at 6, 7, 8, 9, 10.” This guy is f***ing empty, and if he's empty, he's f***ing s***. The same way that if I walk past the restaurant, even if I like the menu, if there's no one in there, I'm not going in. I'm like, “That place is going to give me food poisoning.” So I think that even as coaches with smaller followings, they should be giving off the aura that they are busy. You know, “Oh, can we do a sales call? No, I'm too busy working with my clients. Here's the prices; if you want to join, here it is. Just to let you know, there is a 28-day, no quibble money-back guarantee if you don't love it at any point and think it's worth five times what I'm charging, I'll give you one back.” Yeah, I completely see the logic in that. But when we break it down to the actual, “This is how it works.” If you took 20 people and done, booked 20 sales calls, and then you took 20 people that went onto your landing page or send your money-back guarantee, you're going to get more returns off that. However, if you're getting enough people that will look on your landing page that will take you up on that offer, definitely do them. But if you're struggling to get clients, and you're sending out emails, you're doing landing pages, you're doing all that, and you're still not getting clients, then you need to look into booking calls. So I, I, I do what you do now. I don't, I don't do sales calls, and I think if it works, it's much more enjoyable. No one likes doing sales calls; they're a b****y crack. However, I think that they're a necessary evil at the start. I think I'm, I'm kind of cursed, cuz I used to work in a call center, and I used to do door-to-door sales, so I'm, I'm tired. I was tired at 24 when I was your age. I'd already done thousands. I had to do 100 phone calls a day; it's not fun. So for me now, even my dad tries calling me, I'm like, “Nah, mate, now just send me a message.” He's like, “Son, I'm driving.” I'm like, “Well, message me when you get there,” you know, like, I'm not, I'm not doing it; I hate it. But for me, I suppose, I, I really don't like, uh, walking the floor was, was horrible, right? Go up to someone like, “Hey, mate, I was just watching you do that, you know, can I just give you a little bit of s*** off? Cheers, mate, have a good day.” Uh, I faced so much rejection, right? If I think about it, right, one bad comment can ruin my day; that's why I don't try not to look, right? Or I nibble. I f***ing love a nibble sometimes. I'm like, “Well, I went on your LinkedIn, looks like your job at f***ing Ciro didn't go well, you little haha, unemployed, looking for a new role, nice one, brother.” Um, so what, so like, for me, it would have been probably the implications of a bad sales call could ruin my day. So let's say I nail a sales call, I'm on it, and I'm like, “Trish is signing up, brother,” and she goes, “Sorry, uh, I just can't afford it.” My mind goes, “It's never really, they can't afford it; she doesn't see the value in it. Why doesn't she?” And then, sing, my day is ruined. And then when I'm on camera, I'm not myself. For me, I just don't want anything in my day that could potentially put a negative spin on it, and for me, I think a sales call could be that thing.

Yeah, 100%, but I think if you're someone at the start of your journey, going into the sales calls without the expectation, it would be a complete waste of your time to do sales calls. But uh, like anyone wants my advice, is definitely do the sales calls. But as I said before, don't go into the sales calls thinking that you need to convert the person. Go into the sales call thinking, “Is this person actually going to be a good fit? Will they work with me?” If you're a strict bodybuilding coach that's doing a photoshoot prep, and Sharon from down the road comes to you, and she's just looking for help with a relationship with food, coming off some, might not be the best fit for you, and then just telling her that, directing her onto someone else. But I think sales calls should be used more as a, seeing if this person, it should be, should be ethical. Everything that you do should be ethical, but I think a lot of people's just, “Sales call, sales call, sales call. Are we going to convert? Did you convert, or did you not?” That's always the question: “Did you convert that sales call?” Not, “Was that person actually a good fit when they jumped on the call with you?” At the start when you're trying to get clients, and you jump in the sales call with people, it might be like, “I need to convert this person, I need to make money.” But put off that short-term trying to make money, just to work with people that you actually enjoy working with. You're going to enjoy running your business much more; it's going to be more ethical, and I just think it's a better way to do things. Everything that I do, no matter how much money or followers, it's just about doing the right thing and, and just trying to help people without any sleazy tactics. I never learned, like, I recommend sales calls, but I never learned sales. I never learned how to pressure someone into buying something off me that doesn't genuinely want to. So I think that there, there's a right way to do it, and you can be extremely successful doing it the right way. So I see where James is coming from in terms of the way in which people go about sales calls and forms, but I think if we're doing them right, that they can be extremely good. But if it's sales call, no matter what you're doing, it's always about doing it right and putting the client first, genuinely trying to help people.

I always think that, cuz you're 23 now, right?

24. Okay. Made your first million at 22?

23. I think I wasn't really keeping track; it just happened. What was that like? Was it difficult at all? I mean, for me, I'm almost kind of glad that I was 27, maybe 28, before I ever had a big pay slip, because I'm worried that I would just snort it all and maybe, you know, go somewhere and just have 100 prostitutes. Just joking. But like, um, for you, has that been like a personal struggle?

No. Well, well, I, I talk, call my drugs, un-named, so I got that out of my system. For you, would you say there's any barriers? Do you ever, like, do you worry about, like, um, you know, remaining motivated, staying on top of things? Do you ever worry that like you might, is there ending being any personal struggle to do with success, because success isn't just a linear positive?

I don't, I, as I said, money is a byproduct of what I do, so I would be doing this anyway. When I first started posting content, do you, do you remember I mailed you when I, when I posted my first video, and I was like, “Yo, you inspired me to do this,” but I wanted 30 clients, paying X amount per month. I wanted to make 30 grand a year to match what I would get from a graduate job. So that was my ultimate goal. If that took me a year, if that got me two years, I'd be like, “I'm willing to work for this.” I didn't get into PT to make millions; I got into it to do something that I love, and if I could match the wage, so I'd done that, and then I continued to make more. But for me, I don't, I'm not that materialistic. I don't have this like, “Oh, I need to make money cuz I want to go and do like, fly on a private jet,” like you've done and stuff like, maybe, maybe we'll do that. I'm not slagging you; I'm just, I'm just saying, look, look, British Airways charge an extortionate amount. It was, you know, it was either, you know, the money was going to BA, and I mean, but for me, money has given me a position to buy people in my family cars, pay off the mortgage, retire my mom. I enjoy doing stuff like that; it feels good to me because that's stuff that I can naturally do. I'm like, “I have the money there; it wasn't my goal to retire mom or give all this money to charity to do that,” but I was like, “I have it there, I may as well do it.” So that feels good to me; that motivates me to make more money because of the ability that what it gives me, the ability to do. I think money can make or break you, um, and it's, it's definitely been an overall positive, but I don't lose motivation no matter how much money I make because money isn't the main motivation; it's the byproduct. And then once I see what I can do with it, that's, that's what makes me happy, in that way, spending it. If you're someone that isn't following Sean Casey, I would highly recommend it, even if you're not into his recipes or you're not looking for a personal trainer, just to observe from the sideline. I, I used to get a lot of stick for following Andrew Tate, and I was like, “You need to unfollow him,” but as a marketer, whether you like someone or not, you should probably follow them just to see what tactics they use for growth, for polarization, for growing their email list, because as I mentioned before, there can be a very fine line between hating someone and being inspired from them. So I hope this video was an eye-opener to some of the things that Sean uses and some of the things that you can implement into your own business and brand to grow to the next level. As per usual, YouTube is a pretty smart bugger, and it's probably going to give you a video right here that it recommends from my channel that you watch, and YouTube isn't often that wrong. So I hope you enjoy that as well. Thank you very much for watching.