Sales Roleplay - High Ticket Trading Offer With $1M/mo Trainer [LIVE]

What is going on? We are back with another high ticket sales roleplay. We're going to jump into a trading offer. So, I have Daniel who's going to play the closer for us, and I have Harrison who's going to play the prospect for this offer. We're going to go into the discovery part of the sales call.

Because 90% of what is in your control as a high ticket closer, of whether a deal closes or whether a deal is lost, is what you do in the discovery. That is the internal mastery, and that is how you actually navigate the conversation with your prospects. If you master just the discovery part of your sales call, you will have less lost sales. You will have less objections. You will have less follow-up, and ultimately you will be able to make the money that you truly want to be making in sales.

So without any further ado, let's dive into the nuances of how to master the discovery part of a high ticket sales call. Daniel, whenever you're ready, kick us off with your opening question.

So, Harrison, I went through your application and really got all of those details. And so, I'm curious, in your opinion, what is the biggest challenge that you have with trading right now?

I just haven't been getting return on the trades more recently. I train pretty consistently, but my thing is I try to train during my working hours whenever I can. And there are times that I feel like I'm missing signals. Um, mainly from the fact that I could have a meeting that I'm hopping on, and that's when I'll see it'll be like a perfect time to get in on something. And of course, after the meeting's over, I see that I missed it. I missed the opportunity, and then I end up just trying to get back in. But whenever that happens, it usually never works out for me.

Okay. So, right now, you've been trading pretty consistently. You don't see any return because you're trading during your working hours, and sometimes you see some signals coming in and because you need to jump for a meeting, you're missing them.

Beautiful summary. What is one thing everybody in the chat that we need to fix about that summary? If you don't fix this, folks, you'll struggle a lot with closing people.

So, we've got the glass half empty. We focused on that, maybe not as heavy as we could have, but it was, hey, you're not getting returns. What do we need on a sales call, folks? We need two things. What are the two things we need on a sales call? We need pain and problem. And what's the other thing? Ownership.

What was the slight issue with how Daniel phrased the summary?

Nope. I'm reading the chat. I was blaming it on the work and not on him.

Very good. You said in the way that you phrased it definitively the reason you're not getting results is that your work hours are affecting your trading. If you start putting that ownership on the prospect that the issue is the work hours, you're now going to have to unwind all of that as you go further into the sales call to make him realize it's not the work hours.

So, how do you say what the prospect said? And you can't put words in the prospect's mouth without making it seem like what they're saying is definitive.

Very well done, Jay. He bought into the externalizations. How could you say that differently, Daniel, without saying it's definitively because of the workouts?

Okay, so right now you are missing signals just without saying the work. Well, you still have to mention the work. Let me give you an example. Instead of saying you're not getting returns because of your work hours, you could say so the issue is you're not getting returns. And a part of that could be because of the hours that you're working affecting you being able to trade at the right time. Could be, seems like, might be.

This is where we actually do have to use soft language, which is the opposite of what I teach normally because we're softening the rationalization. We don't want to use soft language when we're doing our introduction, when we're doing our framing, when we're talking about the pain, when we're talking about the problem. It is this, it is that, it is this. That's how we talk when we're focusing on what we need to be focusing on. When we're listening to the prospect and they're saying things that are like, "Well, that might not be true," we have to use the softening language to start to break up the bread as far as that being what they're choosing to eat. We don't want them eating that [ __ ] anymore. We don't want them eating that rationalization.

Does this make sense, folks? Put in the chat if this is making sense to everybody.

Thank you, Daniel. Good. So, we need to say definitively, "Got it." So, you're trading and you're not getting the returns that you want. And part of that problem could be that your working hours are affecting you missing signals. Is that accurate?

Yes. Part of that could be.

Now in his mind, he's like, "hm, I wonder what the other part could be." You're subconsciously implanting this into the prospect as opposed to having to unwind all of the burying the prospect in their own [ __ ] saying, "You're not getting returns, and the reason for that is your working hours." Now, he's going to say, "Yes, that's exactly correct," and he's going to put his feet in the ground and say that's 100% the issue. Well, you're not going to sell anybody if that's the issue. Also, it wouldn't be the issue. Otherwise, he wouldn't be on a [ __ ] sales call. Unless he's just quit his job recently. He wouldn't be on a sales call to try and fix it if he really thought that was the issue.

All right, good stuff with the summary picking everything up. Just change the wording a little bit. So, I would redo the summary and then roll into your next question.

Okay. So, Harrison, right now you're not seeing return and that could potentially be given the fact that you're missing signals on your working hours.

Yeah, that's correct.

Let me just pause you. That was spot on. Can everybody see and feel the difference in what that did to the sales call? Whereas before, we're just siding with the prospect. We're we're kind of it's not quite buddy buddy, but we're kind of saying, "Oh, yeah. I agree with you." Well, you're not on the call to agree with your prospects, guys. You're on the p. You're on the call to get them to the truth.

All right. Good stuff, Daniel. Keep going.

Perfect. So, Harrison, what has your trading life been looking like over the last week?

That was not a good question. Why was that not a good question?

Not contextual or based on what he told me.

What do you mean by not contextual? It's like I didn't contextualize it by saying like, okay, so you're going to your job, I don't know, like during the week. So, what has your trading life been looking like over the last week?

Okay. So, you're you're saying that you're not you're not contextualizing it to which piece of information you're digging into. That's also true. If you read the chat, everyone's on the right line. What What do you mean by trading life? Like, what does that mean? Does that mean what t-shirt does he wear when he's trading? Does he wear one that says I love trading? You know, does he sit in front of a MacBook or a PC? Does he work in the dark? Does he work in with the lights on? Like what what do you mean trading life? What specifically are you trying to get out of him as far as information? Are you trying to understand what has his returns been? Well, then ask what were your returns last week? Or when you're saying trading life, which I think by the sound of it is more what you were meaning. Are you meaning in the last week, how many hours trading did you do? And when did you do that trading? And where did you do that trading and how did it go? Well, then you're going to have to break that down into four or five different questions.

Okay. So, okay, you have to ask specifically what you want.

Okay. So, Harrison, you mentioned that right now you have no returns. So, over the last week, did you get any returns at all? Don't ask a yes or no question. Did you? What were your returns? Make the prospect have to think, what were my returns? Don't just give them an answer where they can say yes or no. But that was better as far as the direction of the call. Keep

Okay. So, Harrison, over the last week, what has been your returns?

I think it's last two weeks, it's been about honestly I'm down around 1,000 bucks the last two weeks.

Last two weeks. Mhm.

Okay. So, 2,000 bucks over the last two weeks. And then over the last month, what has been your returns?

The last month? Last month total. I'm this month I'm down 1,000 total. I started off up a,000 but then lost two grand the last two weeks.

Okay. So, you started you made 1K and then you lost 2K over the last two weeks.

Yeah.

Okay. Got it. What was it that you've done to uh make those two this 1K at the start of the month?

Well, I just hit the signals earlier this month. I got I'm I'm part of a Discord that calls out, you know, when's a good time to either call or put, and I was able to get into the signals just fine. Didn't really focus on any huge returns. Just took consistent cash, just aimed for about 20 25%. Even some days though, just taking like 10 15%. And it just was just consistent with that. So I ended up being up around a grand across the first two weeks on there.

Okay. So you were part of this Discord group with like all of the signals. So you made 1K at the start of the month. What what stopped you from keep making money from the signals from that group?

Well, I was I was still I was still doing it, but then work just got even busier for me. And it's really just been the trend throughout not just this month, but the past few months, too, where they're calling out signals, they're usually earlier in the day, but depending on how busy I am with work, then I just may not be able to hit them. And so, I don't think it's necessarily they're calling out bad signals. People are making returns on them. It just doesn't feel like these are the calls that I'm able to make with my schedule.

M. So, with the first week that you made the 1K, what has your work schedule been looking like? How many hours were you working a day?

It's been it's been the same. It's been around I work from like I work from 9:00 to 5:30 Monday through Friday.

Okay. So, you said it's been the same. Is it the same as it is now?

Yeah, it's the same. The only thing that changes is that I work on sales, so it depends on how many inbound meetings I get in a given week. You know, some weeks it'll be maybe I'm getting them first thing in the morning. I usually don't take calls until around 9:30, which I wish I could change, but unfortunately that's when the market's open. And so, it really just depends more on not like the time of day I'm working, but what meetings I have during those days because when I'm on a call, I I can't look at the I can't look at the charts at all.

Okay, let me just pause you. So what I want everyone to understand is what do we need to cover in this call right now based on the prospect number one, and these are not in order guys you can do either first but both need to be covered. Number one we need to really dig into what the pain is. The pain of him not making consistent returns in trading. Why is that even matter? Does he want to get out of his job? Does he want to buy something with the trading returns? Why does it matter? So, that's one thing we're going to have to get into. The other thing we're going to have to get into is where are we going in well, where is the prospect going in terms of how they're going to trade if they think the issue is the working hours, which is what Daniel is starting to dig into is, okay, well, you know, has your hours changed? No, they're the same. So, then what we're really wondering is, well, where's this guy going to go in terms of his trading if his hours haven't changed? And he thinks the issue is is ours, then how's he going to be successful in this? So, that's another area of the conversation that we're going to have to get into. Put in the chat, guys, if you have any ideas of how we could do that. How could we get into the conversation of this guy's plan to be able to trade when he says his working hours are the issue?

That that's a question I was thinking like when you said that it's like okay so you mentioned your working hours are limiting you as far as hitting the signals because when you're on calls you can't look at them you can't do anything. What's your plan to what's your plan going forward with trading given the fact that your workload has been you know going higher. That's that's one way you could ask it. You could ask that and that would work. Faith's got an idea. So how would you ask that faith as a question? Now, the more experienced you get in sales, guys, the more direct you can be in the question. When I give you the example that I'm going to give you, you'll be like, "Fuck, that just gets straight to the straight to the chase." But put in the chat, guys, how you could have asked this. Daniel's already given one example. You know, what's what's your plan then? Is this meth if this method of trading is not working for you, what do you think would Yeah, you could ask that. What else, guys? I don't want to just have a conversation with Daniel and Faith. What are you going to be able to do to trade and get the signals similar to as far as a plan? Do you know? Okay, George, do you know any other ways to trade? How are you planning to be successful in trading with your current? I like Alex's the best so far. Okay, got it. So, you mentioned that your your hours could be affecting you being able to trade on the signals and therefore you're getting inconsistent and very limited results. How then are you planning to be successful in trading with your current work schedule? I like that. That's very good. Well done, Alex. Martin, perfect. That's the same as what's your plan? If your schedule is in the way, how are you going to solve this? Jesus, how do you think you could be successfully trading with your schedule? Those all work, guys. You want to see how to just get right to the point and not waste time. Hey, okay, Harrison. So, you mentioned your schedule could be the reason that you're having inconsistent and very limited results. Do you know any traders that have a work schedule similar to yours that are getting the results that you want?

Yeah, actually a buddy of mine who works at the same company, he's in the same Discord and he's making profits every single week on there. So I think I mean I've seen I've seen him do it so I know it's possible.

So what do you think is different to him getting the results that you want versus you?

I think it's really his schedule. I think he's got the he works the same hours, but the big thing is like when we take meetings and he doesn't take meetings until 10 usually, which for us the call outs are usually at 9:30 as soon as market opens.

So, okay. Well, let's let's go back then. I mean, someone that does have the same availability as far as hours to you. Do you think there's anyone out there that has the same availability as you as far as when they can trade and when they can't that has got the results that you want?

I mean, yeah, I'd say so. Okay. I think Yeah, I think it's if I'm thinking about who that is, it's more of just I think those are people that are making more long-term trades. Like, they're not just trading for just in and out; they're going for more swing trades of some kind.

Okay. So, a different a different strategy. Any any other ways that there are people out there that are getting the results that you want with the same schedule?

Notice guys are making the prospect do the work. I'm not doing anything. I'm just saying, well, you you [ __ ] figure it out.

I think like no, they could theoretically I know I focus so much during during the morning, but I could still take trades maybe midday or at the end of the day, which I know people do. I haven't done that though, just cuz that's not when the call outs really are. And I know that requires more chart reading, which I don't feel like I've got the time for.

Makes total sense. So, it sounds like as far as you getting becoming successful as a trader, and correct me if I'm wrong, it sounds like you have two options. Option one is you change your work schedule and you maintain following the current call outs and the current signals and therefore you'd have more consistency. Or option two is you need to learn a different style of trading whilst maintaining your current schedule. Which one of those is more preferable?

learning a different style. I don't have I don't have much control over my schedule in terms of meetings I take. And if anything, I I'm in sales, so I want to keep meetings open so that way I can still be making, you know, still be bringing in commission in the job that I am in right now. So, I'd say the second one.

Okay. I I actually missed an option. So, let's just go back. Option three is you could just not trade.

I don't want to not trade.

Okay. So, between the option of not trying to make money with trading, changing your schedule to be more consistent and successful with your current strategy or learning a completely new strategy that would allow you to trade successfully in the middle or the end of the days, that third option sounds like that's the most preferable.

Yeah.

Okay, that's it, guys. The belief is broken. The belief of it's my time, it's now an excuse, I'm now not going to buy at the end of the call. That's now obliterated. That's all you have to do, guys. You see it and you think, well, that's a belief because he he said something that whilst it may be true in his current reality, there's probably other people that don't have that reality. I'm going to make the prospect explain that to me. Now, we've got to get into two things, which is much further into the pain; otherwise he's not going to buy. And based on the way I handled the belief, which is how scriptless selling all works together, it's now opened up another line of conversation. What is that line of conversation that we've now all of a sudden got some information on, but we need more information? What is it guys? I started handling the belief and he mentioned something which I hadn't asked him about it, but he just happened to mention it whilst we were handling the belief. What did he mention?

Nope. Friend. Nope. Nope. Guys, o can't be missing this. He mentioned I'm in sales and I'm making commissions.

Okay. Well, how much commissions did you make last month? Why not just double down on sales? He's just opened that doorway for me cuz he mentioned what he does as a job. Notice how because scriptless selling is all tied together, all the different things that you need to go to. What would if I'd have just laid out for you on a piece of paper, guys, what we would have needed to know about this guy. I would have needed to know his current job. I would have needed to know why he doesn't just double down on his current job, which is the same as why did you get into trading and why are you trying to make money in trading? I would have needed to know his beliefs as far as what he thinks could make a successful trader. Oh, you have to be able to trade at these hours. Well, if that's your belief then and you can't do that, then you're not going to buy anything. I would have needed to know his ownership. These are all universal things that I would have needed to know, guys. But in scriptless selling, as I go towards tackling whatever the most obvious next thing is, you'll find that as you tackle that next thing, other parts of the conversation start opening up. I didn't need to go backwards and say, "Well, what's your current job?" He just mentioned it. They're all they're all intrinsically tied together. Does this make sense, guys? So, you got to be listening and you got to be able to keep track of, okay,

We're talking about the beliefs. We're talking about his returns on trading. We're talking about his sales job. We've got all of these different threads open right now, which is why the discovery, the front part of it, data gathering is an expansive part. We need to really understand the big picture.

Once we understand the big picture, you'll see the dots connecting. You'll go, "Oh, now I understand why you want to get out of sales and do trading, but I also understand why you're in this kind of predicament where if you reduced your sales hours, you would make less money from commissions and you would be able to trade, but then you wouldn't have the kind of safety net of your commissions." The big picture will start connecting all the dots together for you. Right now, I need the big picture. Okay, make sense?

All right, so we've done the belief. Let's go back into our normal data gathering, Daniel. So, go from there.

So I'll go where you stop, basically.

Exactly.

Okay.

So Harrison, you mentioned a couple of things. You also mentioned your job right now is you do sales, right?

Yeah.

And so you work on commission. Why don't you just put more hours into that and make more money with that?

Very, very good. Very good. I've trained on this. I think it was on Wednesday. It will work, what you just did. It's not going to kill the call, but you're not here to be average as a salesperson, and you're here to be the best. A better way to get that information would be to ask historical information.

Okay, so you're in sales, you're making commissions. When did you get into trading?

Oh, that was 6 months ago.

Okay, why did you get into trading?

We'll get the information more based on facts of the decisions he's already made and the reasons that led to those decisions as opposed to the hypothetical. Why did you get into why uh do you want to make money in trading versus doubling down on your commissions? He'll probably tell you a similar reason, but it's backed up in a lot more reality when it's like, well, you made this decision 6 months ago. You've told me why you made the decision. It's been now six months and you haven't accomplished whatever you wanted to accomplish by making that decision. It's all going to start knitting together a lot more solidly if you do it that way. Okay? What you did would have worked. It's not going to kill the call, but this is just a more advanced way to do it. All right? So, try that.

Perfect. So, Harrison, you mentioned you do sales. How long have you been doing sales for?

Sales, I've been in this company for now two years.

Two years.

And when was it that you started with trading?

I've always invested in stocks, but trading, I'd say about four months ago.

Four months ago.

Okay. What happened four months ago that made you want to get into trading?

Notice how this is just so much more based on curiosity, guys. It doesn't sound like you're trying to sell him. Well, why why why not just do more uh make more money in commissions? You're trying to understand what's what this person's life has been.

Okay, so you're a salesperson. You did you've been doing that for 2 years, just over a year and a half into sales. You then got into trading. What happened?

Well, you know, I I kind of been doing sales for a year and a half. I was pretty burned out. I thought, you know, I don't really want to be doing this forever. I I need to get out of it.

Okay. Was there something specific that happened a year and a half in?

As far as the burnout, yeah, like I I'd gone from making 20K a month all the way back down to five.

Okay. I mean, maybe a redundant question, Harrison, but you you could have just doubled back down on sales and studied harder or invested the money you've put into trading to do that. Why didn't you do that?

No, honestly, I just I I know I don't want to be in sales for the rest of my life.

Now, he's just laid that line down of I don't want to be in sales. Okay, cool. What is it about trading that makes you feel that is what you want to do at least for the imminent future versus sales?

Oh, it's this, it's this, it's this, and this.

So, now we've got what you would call in sales, the gap. This is all the things I don't like about sales. This is all the things I prefer about trading, but I suck at trading. I'm not getting results. Now, we can tie. If you don't figure out this trading, you're going to have to continue living life doing all these [ __ ] things in sales that you don't like doing. Does that make sense, guys? Just out of just curiosity of what's this guy's story? We've we've tied it. We start tying it all together.

Okay. All right. Keep going, Daniel.

Good. Yeah.

Okay. So, you started trading four months ago. Why is that?

Well, I mean, I I got promoted about six months ago, and I've worked my way up in sales, bigger territories, you know, higher base, but I've noticed that I feel like I'm capped out in terms of how much more I could grow here. And so, I was always thinking about different ways that I could make money on the side, you know, I have been investing, but I just didn't want to the pace that I was going. I just didn't want to continue with this strategy. I was like, what's a quick way of doing this? And then four months ago, that same buddy of mine I told you about earlier. He he joined he me and him, we became good friends. Um, he joined a little bit after me. And we were just talking. He showed me like how many trades he was making in the Discord that he was in and how much money he was making, too. And I was like, well, if I can just make money like this, then I'll be able to get out of here even quicker. So, I decided to hop in.

Okay, this is a moment. So, this is this is a moment where I would have read the way that the prospect explained that story. The next thing that comes out of my mouth would be more based on the expression of that story. So, put in the chat, guys and girls, when Daniel uh when Harrison pretending to be a prospect, explain that story what was kind of his expressions. What was kind of the feelings that we were imagining Harrison was feeling?

Sadness.

My friend has done it and I didn't. He was missing out.

Frustration, somber.

The only one that I agree with here is Alex. I I didn't view it as Harrison was sad. I viewed it as funny that we're kind of playing between a fake prospect and the real Harrison. I I viewed it as he was bewildered. He was like, "Holy [ __ ] this guy's working less hours than me and he's trading and he's making more money than me. Like [ __ ] like like what am I doing?" It was almost this like mind blown like right.

So my next thing that comes out of my mouth because I'm reading the prospect would have been it sounds like when you saw that from your friend that was a pretty mind-blowing realization for you. Is that accurate?

Oh yeah, man. It was accurate because of this and this and this and this and this and this and this.

So the next thing that comes out of my mouth won't be a question because what I'm watching is how are the emotions of the prospect changing as we go through the conversation? And if I draw it on the infamous whiteboard, if we have a line here that is emotions. And so this is just, you know, emotional intensity. You could call this uh, you know, 100. You could call this zero. And this is time. Okay. As we ask prospects questions, their emotions kind of go like this. They go up a bit, they go down a bit, they go up a bit, they go down a bit. Okay? But if you're really tuned into the prospect, you're going to notice when there is a spike and you're like, "Holy [ __ ] their emotions just [ __ ] changed a lot. Maybe it went up a lot or maybe it went down a lot." And whenever you notice this massive spike, the very next thing that should come out of your mouth is why? Why when we were talking about that or when you were talking about that did you have this reaction? Does that make sense, guys? We're not just gathering the pieces of information on the sales call. One of the pieces of information is this piece of information. It's like when you're really looking at what you're doing in a sales call, it's not, this is going to get a bit technical, guys, it's not a it's not a two-dimensional graph. It's a threedimensional graph where you're like, "Oh [ __ ] we've we've not only gathered data. Their emotions just went off in this direction." You're gathering the information in three dimensions, guys. Two dimension is just the words that come out of their mouth. The third dimension is their emotions. And when you watch their state change, you need to be curious. If you were truly having a conversation with someone off of a sales call context and you ask them some questions and then all of a sudden they get very animated when they respond to a question. If you're truly a leader and if you're truly present and if you're truly tuned in, you would notice that change more than you would notice the verbal change of what they're saying and the words that they're using. Okay.

Okay. So, the very first thing that I noticed when Harrison responded to that was this big emotional shift. Okay. All right. Keep going.

So, Harrison, when you told the story about your friend and how we showed you like how much money he's making, I noticed um excitement when you were talking about it. Why is that?

I mean, yeah, just seeing him like he we're we're both at the same job. Like, I'm I'm a leg above him, like I got promoted, but we have the same hours and the same schedule. And as soon as he showed me that, I was like, what am I doing right now? Like I could be making this much money just sitting at my desk at this point. I want to hop right into it. And so that's why I got all in cuz like it just feels like I could be making this much more money right now in this quicker time. Like at this point, like if I can keep this up, get good at this, then this would be golden for the future.

Okay. And so you thought to yourself, you know, what am I doing? Because you guys are both at the same job and he's like making much more money. Trying to think what question to ask right now. So the next thing I'm most curious about is when when was that conversation in in regards to what he's done since that conversation? We we need to tie that realization of holy [ __ ] what am I doing to well, you still haven't figured it out. So, what's changed? Right? Like imagine if you said, "I had that conversation 6 months ago." Okay? So, you had that conversation 6 months ago. You've been trying to figure it out. You've been very inconsistent with your returns and you've had very limited returns. Has something shifted again that you're now reaching out for help. We need to start leaning the conversation now more towards action and more towards commitment. We we've we could go deeper in the pain and I would recommend we go two or three layers deeper into why his buddy having that financial success is is bothering him slash exciting him. What is it about that we need him to say, "Oh, it's cuz you know, I saw he bought a [ __ ] Ferrari or you know, uh, he he mentioned to me or like what the prospect would probably say if it was a real conversation was him and I the the friend that's making money in trading still do the same job." But two weeks ago, my friend told me he's handed in his notice. And that would have been like the holy [ __ ] moment for this prospect of like, "What the [ __ ] am I doing?" Like, it's been 6 months. My buddy's figured out this trading. He's now about to leave the office. I'm gonna be the [ __ ] that's still here going to work. My best friend doesn't work there anymore. I need to [ __ ] do something about this. That that extra clarity of the real story is what we need to get into. And it's just it's just getting a clearer picture is all you need to do. So like what was it about him telling you that story that made you feel like that? Yeah, you could say that. That that would work fine. I would I would probably phrase it as, okay, so your buddy is, in fact, I need more data. Like, do you know how much money your friend is making in trading?

Oh, he's making $20,000 a month.

And how much did you make last month in commissions?

Oh, he made uh I made $5,000.

And is he making commissions as well?

Yes. How much did he make 5,000?

So, you both make the same commissions, 5 grand, but he's making an extra $20,000 a month more than you from trading. What is it about that additional money that has been mind-blowing for you in terms of your reality?

Well, you know, that money would mean this for me. It would mean that for me, I don't like my house. I don't like my car. I don't like this.

Dig it deeper into the pain of why that money even matters in his personal reality. It's probably enough as far as pain. The guy hasn't been lying to us. He hasn't been rationalizing that much. He he said a little bit at the start of the call, it's a time thing, but we we bled that out pretty quick. You don't need to like bury someone in pain if they're being this type of prospect. He he doesn't want to be in his job. His buddy's making 20 grand more than him. He knows that trading is the way to do it. He just hasn't figured out trading. He started lying saying it was the hours of the job. We've got him to admit it's not that because his buddy's working the same job or there's other people that are working the same job, taking the same sales calls that have made money in trading. So, we're we're starting to piece everything together pretty quickly.

Okay. All right. So, go from wherever you want to go from.

Yeah.

So, Harrison, when your friend came to you and told you that story, you know, you were like, "What am I doing?" How much did he make from trading that month? You can ask that. You might you might get a bit of a dead end. I would say, "Do you know? Do you know how much he was making? Or do do you know how much he made last month trading? It's just a little bit more curious as opposed to how much. It's like, well, it might sound a little bit forceful to say it like that.

Okay, keep going. So, Harrison, do you know how much he made from trading last month?

I I don't know about last month. The main thing I do know is that he when he first showed me his bank account, he literally showed me 50 grand in there. And I think this point, I got to assume he's I think he's in well over six figures right now in terms of where his stock market's at.

Okay. When was it that he showed you first his bank account and it was 50K.

That was four months ago when he first told me about it. When he showed me that, that was that was like when I said to myself, "Well, shit."

Okay. So, over the last four months, you you assume he grew the account from 50k to six figures.

Well, not assume. I've he I've seen I mean, yeah, assume. I've seen his returns what he usually gets on trades. And it started off where each day he was making around I want to say it was small. it was like it would be like $50 to $100. But now in the most recent two months on a daily basis, he's making somewhere between $1,000 2,000 even some cases like five grand on a monthly basis. And I also know that on top of that, when he makes it from those trades, he's just reinvested them back into the stock market. So that's why I'm thinking he's probably made even more than just the trades at that point. He's distributed it to the point where I think he's grown exponentially.

Okay. So, at first you've seen he's making like 50 to 100 a day, but over the last two months you've seen him getting days where he's getting returns of like 1K, 2K, 5K. Is that correct?

Yeah.

Okay. And he's in the same job as you, right?

Mhm.

And you guys do sales?

Yeah.

Okay. And so last month, how much did you personally make in commissions from sales?

Last month was around four grand.

So you made four grand in commission. Do you know how much roughly he's making with sales right now per month?

Probably around the same. I don't know his exact pay, but we are able to see how many sales he's gotten and I know our commission structure. He's gotten a little less than me at this point. So commission wise, he's probably making even less actually cuz he's probably making he's probably making more like maybe like three three grand, maybe 3,500.

Okay. So he's making anywhere from 3K to 3500. But on top of that, he has days where he's making like close to 5K.

Yeah.

Okay. And so what I'm curious is one thing I would do to just really like point it out to him is I would get my little calculator out and I go, "So he made $5,000 in commissions. $5,000 divided by 30 days. So you're making $160 a day and your friend is having $5,000 days." Yeah. Now the guy's going to feel like [ __ ] That That's just a little advanced thing I would have stuck in there. Okay, got it. So 5,000 divide by 30 days. So you're you're making 160 bucks a day and your friend that has got trading working for him is making $5,000 a day some days. Is that accurate?

Yes.

When you hear the difference in how much he's making per day versus you, how does that make you feel? Why does it make you feel that way?

Well, because you know life's short, time's precious.

Okay. So, let me ask you, what do you think you need to? And then another thing I would do is I would then take those two numbers. So, I'd say 5,000 divided by 166. So, he's making 30x more than you per day. These are all just playing around with the different ways you can display the information, guys. 5,000 versus 166 or a 30x. So, what do you and then and then I would contextualize it into my next question. So, what do you think you need to 30X your daily income?

Well, I need training. I need mentorship. I need a coach.

Okay, you've been trying to figure this out for the last 4 months. Why now?

Oh, man. I'm just sick and tired of trying to figure it out. My buddy

And then you know what happens? The prospect then starts using your language. They he'll then say, "You know what? I've been trying to figure this out and I'm pissed off that my buddy is making 30x more than me a day." They'll start saying what you just said. And now it's just implanting and implanting and implanting into their head. He'll say, "Oh, you know, I'm sick and tired that my buddy's making $5,000 a day and I'm only making $160 a day." He wouldn't have even known that maths until you gave it to him. But now you've given it to him. He can't unsee it. He can't unknow it. He even if he didn't buy on the sales call right now, he'll go away and for the next 24 hours that number 166 is going to stay in his head. And while it's in his head, he's going to be thinking, "Fuck, I'm making 160 bucks a day. My buddy's making five grand." That's this is another way, guys, that is why I don't do follow-up. If I truly show people all the reality, they will keep thinking about it. They will keep thinking about it and when they think of that number 166, they associate it with me because I'm the one that gave them that light bulb moment. So then when they keep thinking about it and they get to breaking point, they think again 166 and they go, "You know what? I'm going to text that guy and join the program." You've put things in their head that they'll just never unsee, guys. All right, so I would have said, "Okay, what do you think you need to uh 30x your income? I need this. I need this. And I need this." Okay, got it. We've been trying to do this on your own for the

Last four months. Why now? Well, because I'm sick and tired that my buddy's making 30 times more than me a day. Okay.

Was there a turning point when you decided to reach out? Yes. What happened? My buddy just gave in his notice.

So, your buddy's been making 30 times more than you a day. He's had $5,000 a day while you're going to work making $166. And two weeks ago, he handed in his 30-day notice. How does this make you feel that this is your reality and you have a very close friend of yours that is living a completely different reality?

I feel terrible. How much longer are you willing to stay living this reality? How much longer are you going to continue not figuring it out without the training, without the mentorship, without the community, knowing that in two weeks your buddy is probably, with all respect, Harrison, barely going to see you anymore? Because he's going to leave the job and he's going to go living his life making 30 times more money than you. Do you want to be left behind?

No. Why not? Does this make sense, guys?

100%. Cooked. Yeah. That's so good. Harrison, how do you feel?

That 166 number. As soon as you said that, I was like, damn. Yeah, that was that was it. I feel like that was really what was missing is like I honestly it was it was pure excitement. But then you making me realize that that's when I literally felt my chest dropped. I'm like like that's when I was like, "Yeah, I really got to change something."

Yep. Well, guys, it was a pretty quick role play, but there's not really anything else you would do. So, does anybody have any questions or any takeaways?

It's just um I mean, the biggest thing for me is uh thinking through things like planning the steps ahead, right? So, it's like I'm not just thinking about my next question. I'm thinking like how can I piece together this prospect's like life story into this conversation and really get all of the details of like why that happened, why this has shifted, and like why now and all of those things and I'm just excited to make so much more money because I'm like I'm missing so many things right now and this such like a light bulb moment for me to see like what else I can pick up on and like every prospect now is literally going to be cooked. It's like love it. So yeah, it's it's a really important point, guys. Do not on your sales calls try to be figuring ahead how to piece everything together because you won't be present. What you just need to be thinking is as you're going through the conversation, just ask the next question, which helps you get a bigger picture and a bigger picture and a more complete picture. And then it's like a painter. As a painter is painting one piece on the canvas, they're not thinking, "Oh, the rest of the picture is going to look like this." They just paint each piece. And as they uh come close to the canvas and paint a piece, they then stand back and they look at the whole thing and they go, "Okay, I think I need a bit more over here or a bit more color over here." It's this constant process of zooming in and zooming out, zooming in and zooming out. Don't be zoomed in trying to get the next question and trying to be mentally thinking about the big picture because then you'll get confused when you're trying to ask the next question. Just be present and ask the very next question. Then once you've got a couple more pieces of data, you can zoom out and go, "Oh, okay. That makes sense. Let me draw it on the whiteboard because I can literally zoom in on the whiteboard. So, this will be pretty easy."

So, the prospect says something like this. This is, you know, whatever they're saying. And within what they're, and we're super zoomed in, okay? And within what they're saying, there was a a piece of information that was very vague. I'm not getting returns. Okay? All you need to know is that this piece of information when they said, you know, bad returns was vague. And therefore my next question will be, "How, when you say you had vague returns, what were your returns last week?" And that would just be my next question. They then tell me the answer to that which I'll put kind of, you know, it kind of goes over here. They they put the answer to that. And when they put the answer to that you go, okay, that makes sense. I've got that. And then you think of another question. Okay, "What are you doing for work full-time?" "I'm doing this." Okay. "And when did you get into trading?" And all of the questions will start looking on like a a bigger picture. You've got all of the different questions and all of the different answers like this of all the pieces of data you've got. But whenever you're asking a single question, all you should be zoomed in on is what just came out of the prospect's mouth. and I'm just going to focus on the piece of vague information or the piece of data that I'm missing. And you get a few more pieces of information. I might get that piece, that piece, and that piece. And then what I do is mentally I zoom out and I go, hm, okay, I can see the whole canvas now. And what I can see is this is connected to this. And they've admitted ownership to me that they need this. And they've told me why now, which is this. And they've also told me this thing about how they feel. I think this is a sale. This is what I needed. So, don't be trying to listen to the very next question and at the same time be trying to dot connect cuz you'll get so confused, guys. Whenever you're present, you're just listening to what they say and ask the next piece of information. And then you're welcome to take a moment to zoom out and see how everything pieces together. Does that make sense, everyone?

Yes. I think this is a sale. All right. So, don't be trying to do both of those things at the same time. It's like a painter. When a painter is looking at the canvas, they've got they've got their canvas like this and it's on their little, you know, tripod thing, whatever. And they're zoomed in and they're just painting this bit over here and they're saying, "You know what? I think there should be a bit of yellow in here. I should put that over there. You know, I think actually I should put a bit red line over here." And they're just zoomed in on this bit. They're not thinking about the big picture. They're just looking at the shading of something and going, you know what? I should probably shade this bit a bit more here. You know, I think I should draw a an outline around this bit like that. And they're just really zoomed in. And then they'll take a moment and they'll they'll zoom out and they'll go, "Hm, now I've finished this piece here. I actually think I should do some blue over here." Does that make sense? It's just like painting a painting. Okay? Don't be trying to look at this bit and at the same time zoomed out trying to wonder what's going on down here in the corner. You'll just get so confused, guys. Just be present. And then once you've got, you know, so this this could be, you know, one piece of information, a second piece of information, a third piece of a third piece of information. And then once you've got a few extra pieces, you can then take a moment to zoom out. Or sometimes you'll get one extra piece. And because as you train this more often, you'll you'll be able to have more memory recall, which means you can just remember you can keep track of more things at the same time. You'll you'll realize at a certain point in the call, you'll have a click moment. You'll ask one piece of information and you'll go, "Oh, that piece of information is exactly why this connects to this and this connects to this and that connects to that." and you'll have that click moment. But if you're not having the click moment, it just means you need to gather a few more pieces of information. One piece here, couple pieces there, couple pieces there, and then you go, okay, well, let let's take a zoomed out look and see, h I'm still not clear what's going on over here or really what's going on over here. I don't know what they do for work or why they got into trading. You know what? I'm going to zoom in over here. Okay, so "What do you do for work?" "I do this." Okay. "And and how long have you been doing it?" "For for 2 years." Okay, got it. "And when did you get into trading?" Oh, over here. Why? "Why did you get into trading?" "Well, you know, if I'm honest with you, my wife just had a baby." Oh, that is now why he needs to figure out the trading or or something like that. You know, it was the friend. Yeah. Like in this example, it was like the friend. In this example, it's the friend. Yeah.

So, this is how you need to think as far as scriptless selling, guys. You are a painter. You are an artist. You're not someone funny that I chose purple that has a a line of questions, just a list of questions. This is not what you are, guys. You are an artist. You are doing this. Although it doesn't look like a very good piece of art, but you know, don't be a script reader, guys, and just go question question. This is how you truly master sales. Okay.

All right. Who else has uh I know someone had it was uh Daniel, I think. Is it Daniel?

Yeah. What's your question, Daniel? Let me bring you up to

Hey, Josh. How you doing? What's going on?

I'm doing fantastic.

Yeah. Awesome. Well, I actually have two questions now because of your last explanation. So, the first question, the original question was when you made numbers about the 5k days bring and contrasted that to the 166 daily. That's a huge hit emotionally. It was Harrison cited like right. But I also remember from the other trainings that when you have big gaps like that like one two day K days and and sometimes he said 5k days I u I I learned from that training that you seldom or or typically use the lower end to avoid them saying after you said okay so 5k days is $150,000 a month because that opens the door for them to say well it's not 5k every day and then that crumbles down right So is that a position where that would apply or are there situations where you want to go for the top to create emotional clash or what kind of kind of a bit of of uh you know depth into that way of of presenting the data?

Right. Fantastic question and you're you're already 100% right. I would never in this case take the 5,000 and times it by 30 days and say so your buddy's making you know 150,000 a month cuz 100% the prospect would turn around and say well it's not every day that he makes 5 grand or that's why I'm keeping it narrow which is there are days when you're making 160 and he's making 5,000 and I'm just keeping it within that there are days when this happens because it's True. It's a realistic experience that there are days when Harrison goes to work and his buddy comes back and says, "Dude, I made five grand today." That is enough of the level of truth for it to be real. You you would screw the whole call up if you try and overexaggerate it and say, "Oh, so your buddy's pretty much making 150,000 a month and you're only making five." He would go, "No." So, great question, right?

Okay. And the next question is relating uh this this kind of painting analogy which is amazing honestly just to some sometimes I find myself trying to do that like look at the the whole picture while getting ESP right specifics and and and right but then I come to a conclusion where I come to the conclusion and I have a beliefs that throughout my whole sales training career they repeat it incessantly like it's uh it's not about what you say it's about what they say. So I might get the click. I might understand okay now this makes sense. this is why he want went for trading why he's not successful but is it effective at that point because I have been using their words to kind of use a leading question as a summary like okay is the reason why you're having the baby and your wife is ex that you went into trading and I kind of summarized it and said is that the reason why x y or z or do I still need to use open-ended questions and find a way to to take them where I want them to go or or is that just trying to be scripted without a script? And that's probably in the back of my mind. So that that that was the other question.

Another fantastic question. So once you've asked all your questions to gather all the data and you think that you've pieced everything together, you can I guess you could call it a leading question. It's it's more just a a a confirmation, "Is is this accurate?" Now, when you ask them, "Is this accurate?" you really need to be watching the body language, the tonality, even the words that they say. And that's when you would then know, did I lead them with my summary or was I just on the mark? If you if you say, "Is that accurate?" And they're like, "Well, yeah, pretty much." Yeah, that that's not accurate. So then I would say, okay, "What what about that is not spoton or what about that was not accurate?" And now I'm going to go back into open-ended questions. "What about that was not accurate?" Right. Wow. Right. So whenever you're trying to get confirmation, you can you can lock it in on I guess you could call it a a yes or a no question or a closed question cuz at some point I need to take all of the the um expansion of data gathering and lock it in and say put it together. "Have Have we got a conclusion on this?" "Yes, you have." Okay, cool. And the way they say that verbally, body language, energetics, tonality, that's going to let you know, okay, we we've got it accurate. Great question.

Thank you. You're very welcome, brother. Excellent questions. All right, let's bring a up. What's going on, Emil?

I can't hear you, brother. You're on mute.

Yeah. So, I had a question for um for the moment. How do you know if the moment is is the real moment that made the turning point for them? Because Harren Harrison said that um the friend was the moment, but how do you actually know that that was the moment to switch things up?

Yeah, it's a great question. That's you just got to really be tuned in to read the person, you know, like if you ask someone to tell you, you know, what what was the most difficult experience you've gone through in your life and they start telling you the story and you're like, energetically they don't sound like that was that difficult, then you just got to be able to read the room. If I ask someone what the turning point moment was and they and they go, "Well, you know, a couple weeks ago," and you can just feel their whole emotional state has moved, right? So, going back to what I drew on the whiteboard, there are certain points in a sales call where you absolutely do need to see a spike in the emotions. And not only do you need to see a spike, but it it's predictable. And therefore, if you don't see a spike, you'd be like, "Shit, I must have done something wrong." So, what I mean by that is if I'm asking, you know, uh oh, that's not the right pen. If I'm asking what's the biggest, if I'm asking what's the biggest challenge question, and then I ask some probing questions, and then I ask, you know, how they feel and things like that, and eventually I ask, "What was there was there any particular turning point?" Well, when I ask that question, because of the question, which is, "Was there a turning point?" Turning point means something significant that shifted. I'm expecting their body language and their vibe and their tonality to be a pretty big change to how it's been for the last 15, 20 minutes. And if because I'm predicting that, if I don't get that, if if they're just like, well, you know, it was kind of like this. I'm like, yeah, that's not really what I'm expecting to see here based on my question. The question is kind of inviting them to tell me about a significant moment. Well, if the way they're describing that significant moment is not energetically significant, then I'm like, well, we're going to have to kind of go backwards on this. Does that make sense?

Makes sense. Yeah, it's a great it's a great question. I've never actually thought about that. There are certain questions. I guess this is kind of talking about leading as well, but not leading in the sense of yes or no question or trying to guide them in how they respond to the question. But there's there's a sense of it being leading in terms of when I'm asking what the biggest challenge is or you know how do you mean by that or you know when did that happen. I really have no idea the expectation of energetically how the prospect is going to be responding. It could be a big deal. It could be not a big deal. You know, "What's the biggest challenge you're having in trading right now?" "Oh, you know, sometimes it's a little bit up and down." Maybe it's not a big deal. Or or they could say, "Oh my god, it's so bad. My life is on the line. You know, I put 100 grand into trading. I don't have a job. That was all my money." It could be wildly varying in the degree of intensity on a lot of the questions that you ask on a sales call, but there are a handful of questions. "How do you feel?" "Why now?" "What was the turning point?" "How much longer?" Where I am expecting there to be an emotional spike. So, it's kind of leading in terms of I kind of know what I'm looking for as far as the outcome of some of these questions. And if I don't get this outcome, well, I've kind of wasted these questions. They didn't get me the result that I was looking for. Why didn't they get you the result that you're looking for? Because you didn't do the right things in this part. If you've got to the right pain and you've dug deeper on the right pain and you've got all the data, then when you whip out your powerful, emotionally charged questions, you should be like, "Oh, yep. I got the spike that I needed." It's almost predictable when you ask these questions, so long as you've aimed aimed at the right target. Does that make sense, guys?

Yep. Okay, great question. Excellent question. All right, I think uh I saw some So, Kendra had a question. Let's Did you have any more questions, Emil?

No, there wasn't.

All right, good stuff. All right, let's bring up Kendra.

Hey, Kendra.

Hello. How are you guys?

Doing fantastic. Thank you for asking.

So my question is and it's kind of a scattered question so I'll try to narrow it in but so I guess the problem that I'm coming across is my calls go long and so is this just like result of not having like direct enough questions or I guess like part of it I feel like I'm trying to collect so much data that I get into like it just kind of goes on forever. Like how how do you know when you've collected enough data to be able like I don't know. Does that make sense?

Yeah, it does. Have you seen the training when I draw the seesaw? Have you seen that?

Yeah, that was I think the one that um I was on actually.

Good. So you know you've or you should know you've got I mean nobody has a crystal ball. All you know is the probability is the probability when the seesaw is stacked that this person is going to close. It's just I mean you've kind of got to take some of your own beliefs. If you're like well this person's child is having this issues, it's affecting the parents. It's affecting their income. It's affecting their health. Would I give $5,000 for this? when you kind of think that you've got enough clarity that the consequence that they're going to continue paying to not pay you for your offer is is a bad deal, then you've you've got enough. That's as far as the pain. That doesn't mean you've got the ownership. The ownership is them admitting there is a solution. We haven't committed to it. We haven't invested in it. We haven't really focused on it. It's our fault that we've continued with this problem. That's the ownership side. But as far as have you gone deep enough, it's just when you're looking at

Your price point, price point plus the time they have to put in, plus doing something they've never done before, which is scary for a lot of people—getting out their comfort zone. And you look at all of those things that they need to trade for the result that you're inviting them to, and you think, "This would be a no-brainer." If it's a no-brainer, then you've gone deep enough. Now, how do you get to being able to get that point quicker?

The number one thing is going through your calls and going through the transcripts and seeing the points where you asked a question and you got a really powerful piece of data that moved the conversation forward, and vice versa—looking at your call reviews or your uh, your game tape and your transcripts and saying, "This question didn't really do anything in this sales call."

Now, that doesn't mean that you're going to start putting together a list of good questions and a list of bad questions, because it's contextual. This question may have not moved the conversation forward with this prospect, but that question may have moved the call forward with this prospect. So, you're not going through the transcript and going, "Oh, this was a good question. This was a bad question. This was a good question. This is a bad question." You're going, "In this context, this question didn't do anything for me, or this question did do something for me." And you need to start seeing not a list of good questions versus bad questions, but starting to understand cause and effect and starting to see, "Ah, because I asked that question based on what the prospect had just said, that had a really powerful impact in moving the conversation forward."

And the more you start to comprehend why this had this effect, you'll then start to know intuitively on the next calls, "The prospect just started saying this stuff based on this thing that they said here. You know what would be a really powerful question to move the conversation forward? I should probably ask this," and then you'll get the effect that you want. So you just need to spend the time practicing finding the cause and the effect—the cause and the effect in your sales calls. And the more you listen back to your calls and you hear the prospect's energy change when you just ask the question, you'll start realizing, "Oh, now I know why when I asked that question, that had that effect," and you'll start to reverse engineer it. But it takes time. It's not going to happen in reviewing three calls. It will take a year.

But you do this for a year, and like a lot of you guys say on on these calls, "I'm able to listen to a call when we do call reviews and within the first 30 seconds I'll have a crystal ball and tell you what's going to go on at the rest of the call." It's not because I have a crystal ball. It's because I've spotted the patterns for years now. You can develop that ability in somewhere between 12 to 18 months if you actually do the work during the 12 to 18 months.

If you've got a timeline of—let's just call it 18 months—and this is—let's just call it effort. Effort meaning how many of your own calls are you reviewing? How many times have you asked the underground mentor for a call? How much are you doing the internal mastery, etc. If you come into the mastermind and you do three of your own cool reviews per month and you do three, and then it goes up a little bit and you start doing some more, but then it goes down and then you start doing like one a month, one a month, one a month, one a month, one a month. This 18 months doesn't matter anymore because you didn't spend 18 months consistently doing multiple call reviews per month of your own calls and transcribing them out and looking at the cause and the effect. What matters is over this period of time—as we call it massive action times times mentorship—equals you'll develop this ability to be able to see what has the cause and effect as far as the right questions to ask with any prospect on any sales call. Does that make sense?

"It does."

"I think I get really stuck in—well, basically like this is the question to ask all the time—but then that ends up being just scripted, so exactly—yeah—so it's you got to make that shift for sure. Okay. There there is no question that I would ask on every call. I mean, principally I know that I need to know a why. Now I know that I need to know a turning point. I know that I need to know why the prospect thinks they have this issue. But as far as what the problem is, there's no cookie-cutter questions because everybody's problems are slightly different. The way it's affecting them is slightly different. The data around it is different, right?"

"Yeah."

"Okay. Good stuff. Anybody else have questions, guys? The chat has been going for a little bit longer. So, if you got another question in the attendees, you can raise your hand and then I'll just be able to see that your hands raised. So, if you got a question, there we go. Jesus and Martin. Anybody else that has questions or anything you want to share? Takeaways as well, guys. Takeaways or questions? Karolina as well. What's going on, brother?"

"Hey, what's up, Josh? My I started reading the the book, It's Never Crowded Along the Extra Mile. Such a good book. And the very first principle on this book was having a mind that is open to everything and attached to nothing, which to me was kind of like, huh, what an interesting concept. So on calls like for instance this one, how do you balance showing the prospect that you care and at the same time being detached from that?"

"Can you say it again in a different way?"

"Yeah, sure. So for instance on this call, how do you carry a conversation in a manner to where you're digging for information, right, without appearing to be attached to what the the prospect is is getting at or what what the prospect is saying. So that it's almost like you the prospect even though he's being asked or she is being asked a ton of questions um feels that you are not attached to what the prospect is saying. Does that make sense?"

"Pretty much."

"I think you're overthinking it a little bit because people can truly feel your intention. If your intention is just to be focused on the process of understanding their life, I really don't care if their life is aligned with my offer and therefore they buy or their current life situation is not aligned. I I genuinely don't care. Now, because I'm a salesperson, my belief is it probably will be because it's inbound sales and so therefore it probably is a fit, but I'm not attached to it being a fit. I'm just going to gather data and gather data and gather data. It's kind of like if you go into a doctor's office, does the doctor care about accurately diagnosing you? Of course they do. But do they care about you personally if you decide to not action the recommendations that they give you? No. They're like, "Well, your life, you're the one that's going to die." So there's like that fine line between they are going to run you through their diagnosis and their questions and take your blood pressure and get you to step on the scales and do all of the exams that they they need to do and they're attached to doing the process. But if at the end of all of that the doctor hands them a diagnosis and says you need to take these two pills, you need to stop smoking. You need to start exercising. and the prospect, client, uh, patient says, "I'm not going to do that." The doctor's detached. They're like, "Okay, well, nothing more I can do about it. I've I've I've run my diagnosis. I've given you my recommendations, and you do with it what you will." So, that's the the line between attachment and detachment. They're attached to doing their process, but they're not attached to—they're not going to go home. I mean, a good doctor should not go home that night and have it weighing on their mind because if they do that, they're actually going to show up as a worse doctor to the next patients the next day. That they're like, "Oh my god, this one person's going to die because, you know, I told them they need to start, you know, exercising and taking this medication and they said they're not going to do it and so they're literally going to have a heart attack." If the doctor was that like invested in caring too much about the patients, they're not going to be a good doctor. They need to be able to detach and say, "It's their life. It's their choice. I've done my job, but tomorrow I'm going to turn up to my work with a clear mind and I'm just going to show up doing my job as far as the process." Does that make sense?"

"Yeah, totally. Yeah, that I can uh Yeah, that answers my question. That was really good."

"You seem like surprised by that or—"

"Yeah, because I feel like you're I I think I was overthinking it. It's more so a mindset versus, you know, what I think that I should be projecting to the prospect. It's ah interesting. It's a mindset thing. It's the position that I'm I'm in my internal frame of what the call should look like versus what I think, you know, the prospect should be hearing and the way I'm and the way I'm saying it. And I think it has a lot to do with the fact that I've been reading a script for a while. So, it's kind of like the reprogramming of understanding that it's more so like a frame that you're operating in as opposed to, you know, what specifically you should be asking. Um, so that, you know, the prospect doesn't feel like you're trying to sell him or her. So, it's it it makes complete sense."

"Yeah. Very interesting. And the frame that you've been living in is this is the prospect and this is you the closer. The frame that you've been living in because you've been taught that you need to do the right tonality. Is your attention and your focus is always on the prospect. Not in a good way on the prospect in the sense of your focus is on how is the prospect viewing me as far as my tonality. Whereas what and so this this is called a a a mode of focus which is your focus when you're reading a script and you're reading a tone and you're saying your tonality in the way you've been told to is always how is the prospect viewing me? How is the prospect viewing me? In other words, all of your energy is being put into the prospect in terms of they have the frame, they have the control. Whereas what you should be doing is going the only thing that actually matters is my internal intention. If my internal intention is genuine, I re oh I really don't give a [ __ ] how the prospect views me. If my internal intention genuinely is I'm attached to the process but not attached to the outcome. I'm attached to telling the prospect the truth whether they like me or whether they don't like me. This is where your focus needs to be. What can you do that is in your control? Whereas the way you've been taught in sales is I need to focus on how the prospect is viewing me. Well, the irony is you you can't [ __ ] control how the prospect views you. You can try manipulating it by saying things in a certain tonality, curious tone or you know whatever the [ __ ] other tones are that you get taught. It's like you can try and manipulate how they view you, but they can still view you however they want to view you. What you do, what you should be focused on is the only thing that matters is my intention. If I just focus on my intention, whatever happens, you know, a mind that's open to everything but attached to nothing, however the prospect wants to view me, that's entirely their choice. And the more you detach from this like obsession of you're so bothered about how other people view you, the more you detach from being so worried about, does the prospect like my tonality? What do they think about my tonality? Do they think my tonality is genuine? Do they think my tonality is not genuine? It's so neurotic. It's so obsessive about, you know, [ __ ] trying to manipulate the prospect. It's like the only thing you should care about is I'm a good person. I'm trying to help the prospect. Their life is their life. They can do whatever the [ __ ] they want to do. Does that make sense?"

"Yeah. Completely good."

"All right. Great question. All right, let's bring up Martin. We got three more questions, guys. So, if you haven't got your hand up already, don't put your hand up now. There we go."

"Hey there. Can you hear me?"

"I can hear you. What's going on, brother?"

"Perfect. Thank you uh Jesus for for that last question. That was really good. That helped me as well. My question was, you know, I sell BS up as e-commerce. I'm finding that I have kind of like two prospects on on the calls. One is like people mainly over 30 longer in life been in the market for job market having kids like they have it seems like they have a bigger pain point compared to the other group where they are younger start 20s it seems like they don't at least I'm not able to find it so it might just be a belief in mine like they don't really have that pain point it's more of a dream of theirs like they don't have the same of wanting to be with their kids are stuck in their 9 to 5 job for for 10 years in a row where the younger ones are more like it's way more goal focused than them. And it might just be a belief of mine, but I really have a hard time like finding the pain there and having to f I see myself having to focus more on the goal and like the possibilities of the offer rather than like getting the them out of current situation. So, one I don't know if that makes sense."

"I I think it does. One one thing to remember is that they're two sides of the same coin. If someone says, "My goal is to have a nicer house." The pain is all of the current frustrations with the current house. They're the same thing. They're just looking backwards versus looking forwards. But the problem is if you try and get people to look forwards to a hypothetical future, it's hypothetical, but you're going to ask them to give you tangible cash today. It's very hard to get someone to give you real money today for a hypothetical future. What you can give them is if I if you give me this real cash right now, we can remove the real pain and frustration that you are currently feeling that they're the same thing just upside down. Does that make sense? So, if someone's saying to you, you know, my my goal with ecom is this or my goal is that or my goal is this. Why are those your goals? Well, I want blank. So, what is it like currently? Well, currently it's this and it's that and I don't have this and I do have this frustration. I do have this pain. Then you just flip it back upside down. If someone says my goal is to finish with a gold medal. Okay, where do you currently finish now? Oh, I get bronze. Well, what's what's the problem with bronze? Well, I feel like a loser. How much longer do you want to keep feeling like a loser getting bronze? You wouldn't say how how much longer until you want to get the gold. They're the same thing. Wherever someone is is equal to where they are not because you can only be in one place at a time. If I want to be living in a mansion, it means that I'm not living in a mansion. Well, then what's the issue with not living in a mansion? Well, it's cramped and it's I I feel like a poor person and you know I I don't like it's so noisy because everyone's always making noise and I can't concentrate on my office in my doing my work. You just flip it back to them about why they don't want to stay where they currently are. Does that make sense?"

"Yeah, it does. I just just haven't been able to do that or I have tried some way but they are more I haven't been able to get get below service level with them. So then they are very more like but it might also be how do you say like they've been more well it could just be be nice to have kind of answers."

"Well if if someone keeps saying that to you and you've been trying and trying to dig deeper you then have to show them the reality that you've you've said that this has been a nice to have thing for the last 3 years. Have you accomplished it? No. So, if you haven't accomplished it because it's just been a nice to have, has anything changed? No, nothing's changed. Well, if nothing's changed and it hasn't been accomplished thus far, how do you think you're going to accomplish it with the same level of motivation and commitment that you've had for the last 3 years, and you just put it back on the prospect? You show them that they've been following this pattern, and this has been the result of that pattern. If nothing has changed in the foundation of the pattern, the result of the pattern is going to be exactly the same. So you you have to be willing to be detached from the sale and make them see, well, yeah, like or you could say to them, do you think part of the problem in regards to why you haven't accomplished this has been that it's just been a nice to have? Well, I I guess so. What why do you say that? Well, I guess you know if it hasn't been a priority, I wouldn't have focused on it, right? And what has been the result of that? Well, I haven't accomplished it. Has something changed in regards to the level of importance of you accomplishing this? Now, at this point, they'll probably say yes. Okay. Why? When did it change? But let's just say they said no. Okay. Well, if you've just accepted or understood that a big part of the reason this hasn't been accomplished has been the lack of need for it to be accomplished, anybody that we would consider bringing into this program, we would only bring them into the program if they have a very high likelihood of getting the result that they want. And as you've just said, the likelihood of you getting the result that you want with a very low level of need is basically basically zero. And so unless there was something that changed, we wouldn't bring you into this program because we don't bring people into this program that have a high likelihood of not getting results. Does that make sense?"

"Now they're in a position on the back foot where they're going to have to explain to you why their commitment is higher than they've just been telling you it was for the last 10 minutes. Does that make sense?"

"Yeah, it does. Watch the replay, but it makes sense."

"Yeah, watch the replay a few times. It will go on on YouTube in the next week. It's understanding what you need principally in sales, which is they need to have a high level of need or they're not going to buy and they're not going to be successful. You try and uncover that need, but if as you're trying to excavate the need and you're trying to uncover it, you're like, it just isn't there, then you're detached and you let them know. If you don't have a high likelihood of need, which is the same as you've had for the last four years, and you haven't accomplished this for the last four years, no, if nothing changes, nothing changes. We are not looking to enroll people into this program that have a high likelihood of failure. And based on your track record of not having a high need and failing to accomplish this, you have a very high likelihood to continue to fail at accomplishing this goal unless your need has changed. Does that make sense?"

"Yes."

"So, where do you want to go from here? And they'll say, "Well, you're you're right, maybe." Or they'll say, "Well, you know, you're they'll say, "You're right. Therefore, I'm not going to do it." Or they'll say, "You know what? You're right. I need to make this a higher need." Well, you don't need to do anything and you haven't done anything. So, did something shift? And now you need to get them to keep selling you again and again and again cuz they've just had a pretty monumental mindset shift. You better tie that down with multiple tiedowns. Does that make sense, Martin?"

"We We'll train more on it over the weeks. We'll do more training on Wednesday. I appreciate that. But yeah, it makes makes very good sense. Thanks a lot."

"You're very welcome. All right, let's bring"

Up Carolina. What's up, Carolina? Hey. Uh, so I have a super short question: like, if you have a prospect that is super logical and they just give you dry answers, like, "I just want to make more money," then you keep asking why, like what that would change for you, and they say, "Oh, I just want to travel," and like, you know, super not engaged answers, short and dry, only about money.

Well, I mean, there's nothing wrong with something only being about money. It's how do they currently feel to not have the money to do those things. So, if someone says, "Uh, just just to travel a bit more." Okay. When did you last go on vacation? How was that vacation? Oh, it was 2 years ago and we went in a budget hotel. Okay. So, you haven't been on a vacation in the last 2 years. Has something shifted that that's no longer the way you're willing to live? Yes. What shifted? We're just going deeper and deeper into the layers. There's nothing nothing wrong with someone saying that the reason they want to do something is money. It's why do they want to do the thing? How do they feel to not have been doing the thing? What shifted that now they need, if they say they do, to do the thing? You just have to keep stacking those questions on top of each other. Does that make sense?

But what if we give them the questions and they just keep answering with super like short and detached ways where it's not like, give me an example of something they… Yeah. You ask them where you want to travel, they're like, "Oh, pretty much everywhere." And you give more questions like, "Why that's important for you?" And they just like, "I always want it. It's fine. It's cool. Like, I just want to travel." Like, "Give me what you have." This type of person.

Well, the the first thing I saw that you may have done wrong, although I know you're just giving a a generic example, is it's not where do they want to go traveling in the future because that's future pacing. It's where have they not been able to travel that they've wanted to go traveling to. It's it's what are they currently missing out on, not what do they want to get access to? So, I would phrase it more as, okay, has there been somewhere that you've wanted to travel to recently that you didn't get to travel to because of money? Yes. Where was it? Why did you want to go there? How did it, when when you were wanting to go there? How far did you get into the process of planning that trip? Oh, well, we didn't even we didn't even do a a Google search for a hotel booking. Why? Because we're too poor. How does that make you feel? How did that make you feel to want to go to that place and not be able to go there? Mhm. So you go go backwards into what their current experiences have been of not being able to travel versus the future experiences of if they could travel. Then if you go into the future, people will give you, oh, you know, "I just like traveling" or "it would be nice." Anytime someone says "it would be," it's hypothetical. That's what "would" means. "It would be," "it could be," "it should be." They're all hypotheticals. You need someone to tell you "it is." My current reality is I haven't been traveling. Where have you wanted to go? Well, I've wanted to go here and here and here. Why did you want to go to those places? Well, to see family, to do this once in a-lifetime experience. Why do you want to do the once in a-lifetime experience? Well, you know, because… and then they'll start telling you more and more reasons. So, go the other try going the other direction rather than for the future. Try that for the next couple weeks and then let me know where you get to.

Okay, got it. Thank you. You're very welcome. All right, we got Daniel and Alejandro. No more hands up, guys. Daniel, you're coming up. All right. All right. So, it's a takeaway. It's a takeaway. Excellent. Based… Yeah. based on the thing that you said before, it's very tied up to being process focused because I feel like I had it's it already sank in not to be using leading questions, but I just had that realization right now that it doesn't matter if you're not using leading questions, but still still have a leading intention. So, you're trying to get them somewhere and even though not using leading questions, the intention is the same. And that comes across that comes across in the kinds of questions, the timing of the questions, even the the the tonality. And that's why I think new sales people or I used to be taught how to use tonality because the intention needed to be disguised. And that completely cle… I just wrote down a few things and this is my takeaway: open-ended intention is uh what really needs to be there because it's going to allow you to not use leading questions from the core. So process focus, being curious, and when thing clicks for me it will click for them too because it will click it will click from the same conversation. So it's basically I I I'm I'm feeling it now like there the you know being curious what what it does it ties us together on the call and whatever comes across you know data gathering specifics and everything will lead us from curiosity to the same aha moments right of me and that's why now your last uh comment or or response to my question of how do I uh should I summarize and ask and then say is that accurate is just to make sure that I really was tied up to them on the conversation and by the time I get a click and get on okay this is why this is how they will too and that also takes me down to last week before this when I was saying one of the beliefs that I have is that I need to overexplain things to people and I don't I need to acknowledge them for being you know smart enough to maybe not the best decisions, but it will be us together. It's not even them alone getting to a conclusion. It will be us together. So when it I and that's exactly how I know when the seesaw is completely like loaded with enough reason and and let's say reality and facts. Yeah. To be able to say like you said before, this is a sale. This is even if it's if they didn't really have the money, they'll go get it. They'll go get it because a lot depends on it. So, that's my takeaway from today. Was really really intense today. Thank you for for all the training, man. I really appreciate it. It's an absolute pleasure. We're we're all enjoying your takeaways and your uh self-awareness in the chat. So, kudos to you, Daniel. It's wonderful to see. Really wonderful.

All right, we have the last question or takeaway from Alejandro. Hey, Josh. Uh, this is a question. So you just mentioned something very specific in regards to you know what the what shifted question… I understand by the understanding I have from all of the things and the trainings we have gone over you know that's usually best to leave towards the end of the data gathering phase, getting the impact because now it also create like the moment… that being said you were covering an example with I forgot the name of of the lady where you did it pretty early. The question is was that just to cover like the general structure and and just cover it quickly or would you sometimes ask you know the what shifted question early on the call?

Yeah. So if you remember like the billiard ball table where I'm always looking for the balls hitting each other and finding the cause and the effect. If someone says something like I remember a dating call that I was on and the guy said the the opening question was, "What's the biggest challenge you're having in your dating life right now?" And the guy said, "Well, you know, I I've basically been on a dating hiatus, which if you don't know what a hiatus means, guys, it means not dating. Like, I've I've just not been doing any dating." Well, if we're on a dating offer call, I I can't think of any more relevant next question than… Okay, got it. So, you've been on a hiatus for the last two years. Has something shifted? Like, what what else do I need to know next as far as the most important next thing I need to know? If I'm on a dating offer call and a guy says he's been on a hiatus and he didn't say, "I've been on a hiatus and now I'm back into dating." He just said, "Just quick intermission there. Kyus meaning by his own choice he wasn't dating anyone." Okay. Correct. Not not like… Okay, gotcha. Yeah. So the very next question would have been, "Has something shifted?" Oh yes, this shifted because… as far as the most important foundation to this prospect's current reality, what's going on right now? I need to know h has something shifted from the hiatus. Oh yeah, now such and such happened and I'm back into dating. So in that context, that would have been my first question after the opening question. Does that make sense? So, you're always listening to what someone says and trying to understand the clearer painting of what the current situation is as far as cause and effect of everything. I've been on a dating hiatus. So, now in my mind, I'm thinking, guy's on a dating call and he's on a dating hiatus. Well, I don't really understand that. And you're always trying to understand. That's why it's curiosity. And if you're trying to understand, the very next thing you would be trying to understand is, well, what about now? What about now? What shifted? They're basically in this context, they're the same question. They're leading to the same piece of information, which is what's going on right now. I mean, really, I could have asked for the same piece of data in three different ways. I could have said, "What's going on right now? What shifted? How about now?" That I mean, they're all the same thing. I just want to know what is the current reality right now. So, if someone if someone if you're wanting to know when do I ask what shifted? If you've got a billiard ball and it's going in one direction and this direction is not in alignment with the direction that a prospect needs to be traveling in their life to be aligned with your offer. Well, if you've been going in this direction and I need you to be going in this direction, my very next question needs to be about this point here, like what about now? Oh, yeah. Now I'm going in this direction. Oh, okay. Cool. We have alignment so far in the call. Does that make sense? If you're on an ecom offer and someone says, you know, what's the biggest reason you want to get into ecom right now? And someone says, well, you know, I've been working in corporate for the last 25 years. Well, if they just said that and they didn't say anything else, the very next question you should probably ask would be, "Has something shifted?" Yes. Okay. What shifted? Because they've just told me, "I've been going in this direction for this period of time, and I know that that is not really going to get me towards a sale. It's also not going to get me towards the truth. I need to ask what what about this point here?" Like, did something change? So, I could have said, "What shifted?" I could have said, "How about now?" I could have said, "Did any or has has or did anything terrible writing guys but anything change?" They they would have all got me to the same thing, which is the very first thing I need to know is what is the current reality? Which direction are you going now? Does that make sense as far as why I could ask these questions as literally my first question after the opening question or I could ask it, you know, 15 minutes into the sales call. This is this is the difference between having questions that are written to you in a specific order on a script versus just knowing to listen and understand the situation. And then having in your tool bag the ability to ask any question and you just whip out the right tool for the right job and you deploy that question based on what's going on. It's literally the opposite of what you've been taught when you've been told to use a script. This question first, this question second, this question third, you know, the the what shifted question. That's that's question 20. And by the way, you should only ask that question once you're 15 minutes in. Oh, and by the way, this is your tonality that you need to ask that question with. It's like, are you serious? Like, how how the hell are you telling me that this is the most optimal way to be a master salesman? Obviously not. The optimal way is I find out what's going on. I get more information about what's going on. I get more information about what's going on. And at any point when I need more information, I have a tool bag with questions in it and I can just ask any of my different questions and deploy them wherever I need to. And which you know do I use a hammer or do I use you know a screwdriver? Well, I don't know, you use whichever question you need based on what the current uh job to be done is. You just need to learn two things: reading the room and being able to create questions. If you learn step one and step two you know you can just put these two things together and you can close anybody. Make sense? It's like it's like someone that learned to build a shed one time from you know a [ __ ] booklet that is like step one you know do this step two do this versus and the only thing this handyman or handy woman has ever done is build one shed from one step-by-step instructions. you know, [ __ ] paint by numbers versus someone that has learned the principles of how to use a screwdriver, how to use a saw, how to use a hammer, and then whatever job you get given, you're like, I know how to use all of these different tools, and based on me looking at what is the job that we need to do, I need to build a shed. Well, I can just look at what needs to be done and I know how to use all of these tools and I can put two plus two together, right? So, when I was a kid, and this is going off on a bit of a tangent here, guys, but when I was a kid, a big thing in my generation was Lego. And there were two types of kids. There was the kid that could only buy the Lego box and from the Lego box using the instruction booklet, he could only build what was on the box. So if it was like a plane, you know, all all they could build was the airplane. And then there was the kid that could have a big tub of Lego bricks and just be able to look at the bricks and use their imagination and build, you know, the Eiffel Tower or build anything. It's like which which child do you want to be, guys? Do you want to be the one that can only build what the [ __ ] box says? Or do you want to be the one that can understand, right, these are the bricks that I have? These are the things I'd like to build, and I can put two and two together, and I can build anything, right? Do you really think Elon Musk used to sit there building Lego and going, "The box says it should be an airplane, so I'm going to build an airplane." [ __ ] no. He probably had a box that was an airplane and he built a [ __ ] you know, empire state building or something out of the box. And that's not even what it was supposed to be, right? All right. Rant over, guys? Anybody got any other takeaways they want to add to conclude?

All right, folks. Have a wonderful weekend, guys. Go print some money. Have a good time. And I'll see you guys in school. And I'll see you on the next live training on Wednesday. Thanks so much, Josh. You're very welcome. Bye.

All right, another high ticket sales role play and a little bit of a rant at the end on what type of person do you want to be? Do you want to be the cookie cutter salesperson with a cookie cutter income? Do you want to be the person that can only read from a script and read the questions that you've been given with the tonality that you've been given and therefore make the type of money that is a mass market income? If you don't want to be an average person with an average income, with an average life, you have to row against the stream. You have to go against the crowd because the crowd are average, our middle of the road. If that is the life you want to live, you have my permission to be an average person with an average life. But my YouTube channel and the unicorn closer mastermind is not for people that are willing to settle for average. So, if you know that you are sick and tired of playing small, playing average, the only thing that you need to do is to get around the other unicorns that are committed to mastering sales and mastering a way to sell that allows you to have the artist's creativity, the ability to take any prospect on any offer and close them if it is a fit because you're not handcuffed by only being able to read your scripted questions. If you are handcuffed, if you are restricted, if you are inflexible in any way, shape, or form, as the saying goes, which is Charles Darwin, it's not the strongest who survive or thrive. It's not the fastest who survive or thrive. It's the most adaptable. The person that is the most adaptable will go to the highest upper echelons in life. If you want to be that person to live the life of your dreams, then click the link below this video and actually take the committed action that you know you need to be taking so that you can make the money that you want to be making. Right now, you are making the amount of money that you have chosen to make and you have made those choices based on the way you've learned to sell and the way you continue to sell. Being a cookie cutter salesperson will keep you having a cookie cutter income. If you do not want that life anymore, get around the other unicorns, get the training, get the mentorship, and get the community to go to the next level. And when I say next level, if I'm being honest, it's not even a level above being a scripted salesperson. As I showed in the whiteboard at the end, it's a completely different reality. You are not going to be living the same reality as the mass market scripted closers that aren't doing the inner work that aren't actually mastering scriptless selling. So, click the link below. I'll see you on the inside. Get on the inside of the mastermind where you can work with me directly. You can be on the role plays. You can get access to the internal training that I taught Alex Hormos's old gym launch sales team. And you can actually go to the next level. I'll see you on the inside.