Transcription
In Dante's Inferno, when Dante makes his way down to the bottom of hell, it's a very interesting narrative idea. I learned this in psychotherapy. If you have a patterned disagreement with your wife, a pattern of conflict that you both fall into, you can investigate that pattern of conflict to resolve it. And it will take you down levels of catastrophe. And there'll be something, especially if this is something that really is quite immovable. There'll be something unbelievably ugly at the bottom, like something for Dante, something that spoke of betrayal. And Dante put betrayal at the bottommost fundamental of hell. That's it's out of betrayal that all evils make themselves manifest. You often find this for example. So if there is a disharmony in your relationship, it's often because one person or the other has been betrayed or felt that way at some point in their life and that theme is echoing in your relationship. And people don't like to solve that problem because to solve it, they have to go into hell, right?
And this instance of betrayal is another example of Christ encountering Satan. It's another example of harrowing hell. It's an encounter with malevolence and of course it's in the form of his best friend and it's a betrayal of the principle of reciprocity and trust upon which society itself rests and even society in so far as legitimate authority in society serves the lowest. It betrays all of that and that's also why Christ warns Judas that things will not go well for him. If you betray the principle of trust with the people you love, you're in Cain's position. You're absolutely alienated [clears throat] from the best part of yourself and from society.
>> I have a question about So in Matthew it says, "Then Judas which betrayed him answered and said, Master, is it I?" He said unto him, "Thou hast."
>> You've Yeah, you've said it.
>> You've said it.
>> And so he's saying that he he knows he knows.
>> It's like, "Oh, is it me?" like you know.
>> And so but is the is that so does everyone at the table then know that it's Judas?
>> It seems that they don't. I mean I don't think.
>> Because it's like an answer to any so if Peter had said it he'd be like you know.
>> Like you know if it's you or not is basically the answer.
Well, that's very well represented psychologically because someone who's betraying has a luciferian pride about them. You see this with people who act very badly is that part of their assumption network is that you're too stupid to figure out what I'm up to. And that's part of why you deserve to be betrayed. And psychopaths think that all the time. They're absolutely 100% convinced that they're 100% right. And that part of the reason they can prey on other people is because if everyone's that stupid, they that's exactly what they deserve. And it also puts them in a state of mind like um Dahmer had police show up to his apartment because if you're in that state of mind, there's incredible confidence that comes with it. The cops found somebody who'd fled his apartment like screaming and half naked and delivered them back to him. He was like, "Oh yeah, he's had a rough night. Thank you so much." And took them back in. So with possessed with that also there's an incredible confidence that can be exuded. Jordan, that entitlement to take sorry John quickly. That entitlement to take advantage of other people is so interesting because I feel like in some ways that was the animating >> motive for a lot of behavior that we saw in the Soviet Union. People would openly say this, I can steal this. We even have a saying in Russian that something is not lying in the right place, which is code for it can be taken. Right.
>> Right. Like this property can be stolen because it's not correctly protected from being stolen. So this taken advantage of it almost is embedded in systems that uh encourage people to take advantage of it.
So Jordan, can I ask you a question? We're talking about the dark side. I mean [clears throat] you you worked with people at this. How do people come back from betrayal within a couple's relationship? What is the light that can reach them? I know I know sometimes they can't.
>> That's very good, Joe. Well, they have to establish a new covenant.
>> How do they do that?
>> Often they can't. It depends on the degree of betrayal. But if it does happen, it's that well, first of all, the person who betrayed and there'd be some of that on both sides usually. But let's just make it simple, >> sexual betrayal, let's say betrayal of intimacy. The first first of all, the person who's done that has to fully account for what they did. They have to explain it to the person whose trust they violated in complete detail so that there's no doubt left anymore. I need to know everything that you did that was wrong. Okay. Now I need to know why you did it.
>> Now I need to know why I should believe that you changed. Now I need to know what you're willing to offer me as a new arrangement. So it would be something like reestablishing the sanctity of the marriage. And you know that can happen and it happens in small ways when in in within the confines of a couple's life where people betray each other you know in in relatively small ways not sacred ways let's say and you can recover from that and you do that partly because you want that extended to you because you know you're an idiot and you're probably going to make a mistake too. The more fundamental the betrayal, the more difficult it is to atone and or to confess and atone. But that confession and atonement, that is a precondition for establishing the new.
>> That's why uh the statement I'm sorry if I hurt you. [laughter]
>> Yeah.
>> This is how I hurt you.
>> Yes. And this is how I'm going to reconfigure. This is what I'm going to give up going forward so that you can trust me again not to do that.
>> That that's really interesting. John Rousen has argued that one of the best translations of logos is to give an account to which you are accountable.
>> So it's like it's like a you have to completely move into the logos in order to get out of betrayal. That's what.
>> It's a new contract and that that's what you see in in marriages that have been hurt that badly is that they have to establish a new.
>> But they can do it. They can.
>> Well, it is the probability of that is proportionate to the magnitude of the betrayal.
That's basically the method that Jesus uses with Peter, not Judas. And Peter's not betraying Jesus, but he is denying him. It's something very much like a betrayal and he sets the standard. He sets the the standard of accountability as as logos. And we'll come to it in in the next session.
>> Okay.
>> Do you do you do you love me? Do you hold this to this >> account? That's a good question. Which brings up something. Well, you were read Jordan, you introduced it as Judas being offered an opportunity to repent if I'm not misquoting you, but the reading of the passage didn't I didn't get that sense at all that the betrayal is inevitable and Jesus seems to be simply saying this is going to happen.
>> I it didn't sound to me like he Judas had an opportunity or an invitation to repent.
>> Yeah. I don't I think that in I think that in this case what we're seeing is Jesus judging him while he is giving him saying do this but also >> you know he it's like Jesus is manifesting himself as the master of reality. It's like the dis the difference between him judging Judas and Judas doing his own will is collapsing together.
>> Jesus sees what Judas is freely going to do.
>> He's also feeding him when the last time he has a chance to not go down. food part is crazy.
>> And he feeds him as he says it.
>> Yeah. It's like take my body now.
>> What's going on there? Because as soon as he it's it's as soon as he takes the morsel, Satan enters into him. Right. The complete reverse of what we're supposed to see with the institution.
>> Well, before communion, we say, "Let this be to to not to my condemnation, but to the healing of soul and body." With this idea that even communion itself >> is a dangerous thing. If you don't take it with the proper spirit, it is to your condemnation. Why in the liturgy in the liturgy there has to be the peace before communion. There has to be complete harmony.
>> I guess what I'm asking is why doesn't Jesus say repent?
>> I I think that >> I I think the way this is set up is that this is the last chance where Judas could in fact do that >> and he could still decide that he's not going to do it.
>> And he states a warning. Yeah.