Transcription
Sheikh Sahib, why has this impression been formed about you that you are a very good critic and criticize everyone? What is this all about? Not everyone, but those who deserve it at a certain level. You mentioned the Prime Minister. Two or three Prime Ministers came from Larkana. Did you ever meet them, talk to them, or have a dialogue? Bhutto Sahib would occasionally be seen in the lawn of Al-Murtaza, sitting in an armchair with his legs crossed, very relaxed, with no security. There was no security at all. Bhutto Sahib's specialty was that he had friends ranging from beggars and mendicants who roamed the streets begging, to emperors. You mentioned, Sir, that Bhutto used to hold court in his lawn. Then why are our new rulers so afraid that they have so much security that not only beggars, but even decent people cannot meet them? Look, they have entered politics accidentally. It's a straightforward matter. What can be said about Zardari Sahib's involvement in politics? It was like winning a lottery. He married the lady, and he became a politician. Bhutto Sahib was not an accidental politician. Your family used to be with the Khuroos, sometimes with the Koperastos, and sometimes among the Bhuttos. So how did you maintain them? No, our Sheikh community first joined the Muslim League and then the People's Party. But our own family, relatives, and close kin were nationalists from the beginning. Are you satisfied with the governance of the 17-year rule in Sindh? What is lacking in Bilawal Bhutto, brother? I say, why doesn't he become the Chief Minister of Sindh and lead from the front? He is an educated man. Let him form a team of educated people. But he is keen on becoming the Prime Minister. Brother, look, in this country, the Prime Minister cannot be appointed unless the establishment wants it and Punjab wants it. Their model is not of the modern era. The people in their cabinet are not of the era we are living in. The advisors and ministers around them seem to be living in an era of ignorance. 8000 billion rupees have been spent in this province, and do you see anything? There is enough money; there is no need to borrow money. The real issue is that it is easier to take commissions from the loans taken from abroad. Now they have put the Chinese, the World Bank, and all the Asian banks on their line. "This project will give you this, and we will get that." It's not just Zardari. Sardar Shah is also there. Sardar Shah is there. He is our friend. The entire emphasis is on poetry, isn't it? We will believe it when we see something done in education in 5 years. In English, they say, "Don't see what is far and in the middle. See what is clear at your hand." If you go back 20 years, how many people had bungalows? Especially politicians, you saw them before. There are 10 to 15 thousand people. Among them are not just politicians. There are engineers, deputy commissioners, bureaucrats. There are politicians. There are front men for them. All of them, from the district and taluka level to the province, together plan at night how to extract wealth the next day. In the name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful. Your host, Mansoor Mugheri, is present. Viewers, today our guest is an educated, sensible, intellectual man from Sindh, a writer. He has written many books, and his biggest identity is that he keeps criticizing everyone. Criticism is his identity. Many friends will have understood from the hints. Sheikh Sahib is today's guest. Sheikh Sahib, Assalamu Alaikum. Wa Alaikum Assalam. You came well. Thank you, Sheikh Sahib. Why has this impression been formed about you that you are a very good critic and criticize everyone? What is this all about? Not everyone, but those who deserve it at a certain level. I wouldn't call it criticism; I would call it speaking the truth. Criticism for the sake of criticism happens when I myself don't practice certain things and tell others to practice them. We were given opportunities, and we wasted them. We left them. We were tempted by worldly pleasures, but we restrained ourselves. So we also want that when there are certain principles, certain etiquettes, certain standards in society, I should also fulfill those standards, and others should also meet them. But here, Mansoor, there is a trend that what is said is one thing, and what is done is another. And this is the fundamental contradiction that has brought our society to this point. Sir, we will talk about this openly. Let's start with where you spent your childhood. How was it? Were you mischievous like this in childhood, or very good, like some children who are very quiet? No, no, I was a very mischievous and active child. And from my first class until I was in educational institutions, I was very active, a bit mischievous, and a bit blunt. I remember every single thing about my childhood, my movements, my interactions with friends, and my jokes with teachers. So you can say I was a completely different child. Did your childhood pass in Larkana? Yes, in Larkana. See, you are also from Larkana, but since I was born and raised in the city, civility has been in my nature from the beginning. But Larkana itself was not a city in the true sense. In our time and before, Larkana was a center of learning, an institution. When I remember it now, recall it, the entire texture of the city comes before me, and the scene unfolds, and tears well up in my eyes. Larkana was ahead in knowledge, literature, politics, education, and all the good and positive aspects of life. Not just today. Since the Kalhora rule was established in Sindh and they paid attention to Larkana, Larkana has been a center of knowledge and literature. The British have written about the Kalhora era that it was the "Eden of Sindh," so full of gardens, fruits, and activities. So, Mansoor, I remember that era. In Larkana, there was hardly a neighborhood without a library. That was Larkana. Absolutely, brother. Larkana, what can I say? If you look from Pakistan Chowk, or even beyond, from Seu Bazaar, your gaze would extend to Bank Square. And then, if you looked this way, towards the bungalow of Katpar Sahib or the Town Police Station, from here, your gaze would reach the horizon tower. Then, beyond that, there was the shrine of Jangal Shah. And wherever you went, there was no such congestion, no such city population, and no chaos. In the evening, it was like what you hear about Lucknow – a whole world would be created. In the evening, the "othakas" would become populated. Where Katpar Sahib's, Bhutto Sahib's, Khoso Sahib's, and Qadri Bogus's... one after another, friends like Muhammad Abro, Taj Muhammad Abro. In every neighborhood, an "othaka" would be populated. The educated people of the city, poets, intellectuals, social workers, political workers – they would all sit and discuss everything from international affairs to the neighborhood drain. There was learning in that. As evening fell, water would be sprinkled in the courtyards of their offices and "othakas," or in the street, fans would be brought out, chairs would be laid, and this continued until the 60s, 70s, yes, until the 80s. Until the 80s. After that, General Zia actually ruined our entire society. He destroyed all the institutions. And Larkana was not just a center of Sindhi literature, poetry, and politics. Urdu literature and poetry also had a significant presence here, and Persian too. There were writers here. Yes, many great writers. From Abdul Ghafoor Burqadi to Muhammad Bachal Tanio. If you name the galaxy of writers, there is one after another. Zeb Akali, Janab, many writers, and education experts like Khodoo Sahib. Where did Khodoo Sahib come from in Larkana? Are there influences from Mohenjo-daro, or something else? See, Mohenjo-daro tells you that Larkana has had town planning for thousands of years. But I believe it's from the Kalhora era because the Kalhoras focused on this, which was a small city named Chandka. They needed to maintain their control in Northern Sindh. So, along with Sukkur, Larkana was also their hub. From Larkana, they could control Dadu and many other districts. So they developed this. They excavated and prepared a famous "Gadhwa," due to which, from a little below Mehar to here, and then from Garh Khuda Bakhsh, Aggani, and Maho, Tachedpur, Chatpur – our ancestral village – to Pul and Bakhrani, you will find guava orchards, especially guavas that grow in this 25-30 kilometer stretch, which are not found anywhere else in Pakistan. And this Larkana guava variety is not found anywhere in Pakistan, nowhere at all. I even say perhaps not in the entire subcontinent. This is the guava. And even today, if you go to that area, because it is on the right bank of the river, you will find greenery, fruits, and orchards. So, the point is that in every respect, whether it's agriculture, business, commerce, or film, it was a cradle. That's why they used to say, "If you have money in your pocket, go for a trip." Has Larkana been cursed by someone? Or is it the negligence of the rulers? The negligence of the rulers is visible throughout Sindh, but Larkana has become abandoned. Actually, those people who lit the lamps of literature, who were education experts, like Sheikh Wahid Bakhsh, Khodoo Sahib, and many others, each one of them... Mansoor, today I am talking to you, I didn't study in any big institution; I studied in ordinary government schools. But because of the teachers there, I can speak to you with such confidence. I can sit with the Prime Minister and speak with confidence because those teachers ignited a flame within us that not only enlightened our minds but also gave us confidence. So the teachers were excellent in every way. You mentioned the Prime Minister, and two or three Prime Ministers came from Larkana. Did you ever meet them, talk to them, or have a dialogue? Your family used to be with the Khuroos, sometimes with the Koperastos, and sometimes among the Bhuttos. So how did you maintain them? No, our Sheikh community first joined the Muslim League and then the People's Party. But our own family, relatives, and close kin were nationalists from the beginning. My elder brother, Amanullah, indeed, he had a significant role in establishing modern nationalism in Larkana. And I think he spent about four years in jail and suffered many hardships. My father, but when we used to pass by, I remember Bhutto Sahib would occasionally be seen in the lawn of Al-Murtaza, sitting with his legs crossed, very relaxed, with no security. There was no security at all. Bhutto Sahib, I must tell you, Bhutto Sahib's specialty was that he had friends ranging from beggars and mendicants who roamed the streets begging, to emperors. A great man's quality is also that he interacts with many layers of society with equal ease and satisfaction. His friend was also Juma Fakir. His friend was also the Shah of Iran. Shah Faisal too. He had a photographic memory. What can I say? Ras Masood Sahib was a Deputy Commissioner in Sindh. Perhaps he was in Larkana too. He told me many things about Bhutto Sahib; he was also close to him. He was a very, very senior and seasoned bureaucrat. So he told me that Bhutto Sahib put down a file and when he was Prime Minister, he wrote L.B.W., L.B.W., L.B.W. on it. His secretary was perplexed as to how to process the file, but what to do with L.B.W.? So he asked Mr. Khar. Then there was a Cabinet Secretary named Waqar. So he rushed to him, and he laughed and said, "My dear, you have worked with Bhutto Sahib for two or three years, and you still don't understand what he means?" He said, "Sir, we understand other things." He said, "He wants this file to be put aside. L.B.W. - Let Wait. Keep it aside, wait." Then they delved into its depth and found out that it was about the promotion of a federal secretary who had been a Deputy Commissioner in Larkana at some point. Bhutto Sahib had asked him to do a couple of things, perhaps legitimate or illegitimate, and he had refused. So it was in his mind that this particular person... Qadir Bakhsh Mir Bahar, the father of our friend Deedar Masih, had once given him water, and he remembered that too. And it is famous about Kennedy that Kennedy asked, "Mr. Bhutto, you are so intelligent that if you were in my cabinet, you would be in America, and you would be a member of my cabinet." So Bhutto Sahib said, "Mr. President, if I were in America, then where would you be? You would be in my chair." Meaning, what he meant by this is a famous saying. Similarly, Khoso Sahib, Khoso was not an ordinary person. Khoso Sahib was also a very brilliant administrator and a man of integrity, and he also fell victim to the Abdo ordinance because he refused Liaquat Ali Khan. But the unit that accused him... yes, of course, such compromises are made. Bhutto Sahib made them, the lady made them, everyone who is in power, compromises are an integral part of power politics. How high you go, how low you go, history calculates where you are. So Bhutto Sahib, who held court with the beggars, what did the beggars say after coming out? Brother, what did the beggars say? They talked there. Juma Fakir was a famous beggar in Larkana. So when Bhutto Sahib, as President, came to Larkana, as I said, Bhutto Sahib would be sitting like that in the lawn of Al-Murtaza. People would come and go, and he would also go. Bhutto Sahib would inquire about his well-being. So when Bhutto Sahib came as President, he also went. In fact, he was called. So he said, "Fakir, what is it? What do you want?" He said, "What do we beggars want? We are beggars." So, as he was leaving, in those days, 500 rupees was a considerable amount. He took it out and gave it to him. So he said to Bhutto Sahib, "You are so handsome, and you are giving me this? Imagine if I were in your chair and you were on my donkey, what would I give you?" Then Bhutto Sahib said, "Well, Fakir, pray." He said, "Brother, now that you are sitting in this place, do you still need prayers? Then why would you put me in this chair?" Similarly, scholars, literary figures, friends, educated people of Larkana in those days, who had Masters in English, Literature, etc., who had studied abroad, were all close to Bhutto Sahib. And Bhutto Sahib was not alone. There was Gyan Chandani's own gathering. People like Dost Muhammad Abro, Taj Muhammad Abro, Jamal Abro Sahib, Jamal Abro Sahib's entire family, his elder brother Shams Abro... I can't count so many names in every street. Larkana was a shining city and had so many stars in its fold at that time. You mentioned, Sir, that Bhutto used to hold court in his lawn. Then why are our new rulers so afraid that they have so much security that not only beggars, but even decent people cannot meet them? Look, they have entered politics accidentally. It's a straightforward matter. What can be said about Zardari Sahib's involvement in politics? It was like winning a lottery. He married the lady, and he became a politician. Bhutto Sahib was not an accidental politician. His father was also the Prime Minister. He was the Dewan of Junagadh. And his grandfather was also a Nawab and was involved in politics. His grandfather's brother, Nabi Bakhsh Bhutto, was also a politician and a member of the Legislative Assembly. So he was from several generations. Bhutto Sahib was a politician by default. The current leadership in Larkana, Ghulamullah Mahto Sahib, Chakkar Ali Junejo Sahib, many others, Ali Nawaz Ghanghro Sahib, Kehar Sahib, Ilahi Bakhsh Kehar, many others, Abdul Razzaq Sumro Sahib, a man of great character, brilliant people. It wasn't like this. The kind of duds who are around now. A jeweler knows where the diamond is. Bhutto Sahib knew who was where, who lived in which street of which city. So he would find them. Today's politicians, the lady was also very popular. You know about the lady's food, the servants tell us, or her employees tell us. She liked to eat jowar roti, dried fish, and similar things that we eat, Sindhi pulao. She had a connection. I must say, we people of Larkana also have many mistakes. We are very vengeful and don't respect anyone and are aggressive. These are quite negative things, but there are also many positives. Their positives far outweigh their negativity. A genuine person from Larkana, by shaking your hand, will understand half of your personality and will also know how to deal with you. So, Bhutto Sahib, and all the politicians, were literary figures, poets, or lawyers. Whatever field they were in, one quality or flaw I would mention for a person from Larkana is that being in the number two position is very troublesome. Look, Mumtaz Ali Bhutto went to his grave opposing Zardari Sahib, but he never went to him. But I told you about the genuine Larkana person. As for the rest, today it's a marketplace, and people are being sold. They are being sold everywhere, even in Larkana. The raw material has come into politics, or the old ones... Yes, yes, actually, let me tell you their problem. Their problem is that they are still governing with the same mindset as in 1970. They have the same people with them, running the same system. They have no idea that in 2025, in this world of AI, the world of IT, the world of B-Tech, the job-oriented approach... they have no idea. Have you ever heard Bilawal Bhutto say he is an Oxford graduate, or our Chief Minister is a Stanford graduate? Have you ever heard that we have a roadmap? We have this plan for job creation for the youth, and we are going to do this in business and technology? And you hear modern vocabulary from their mouths. They still talk about martyrs and this and that. They don't know the era has changed. Brother, talk about something that gives the youth a futuristic approach. Say something that strikes your mind. Bhutto Sahib, in comparison to them, was a much more developed person in that era. A much more modern person. At least he gave Pakistan 1000 new institutions in those four or five years, and he knew what the future approach required. They don't even know what the need of today is, let alone the future. Bhutto Sahib gave 1000 institutions, and they have given you 4000-5000 front men, haven't they? And what else? Yes, they have front men, so the system runs accordingly. If I were in their place, I would form task forces. For example, a task force on economics, a task force on education. There would be different syndicates, professors who float new ideas. Why don't you bring the top 100 professors of Sindh and put them in administration? They also have a desire to enter administration. So send someone to the economics department, someone to information, someone somewhere. Bring educated people. Give tickets to educated people. You give tickets to sumblon-type people who neither speak nor know anything about politics or society. They have ruined everything. You would give a ticket to even a very educated person if you tell them that "you have to either advocate for me in parliament or remain silent." Bring blunt people. Bring them into different institutions. See how the model of governance in Sindh changes. You were saying that the government should bring 100 good professors or good minds and place them in various institutions, so they could get good advice. Are you satisfied with the governance of the 17-year rule in Sindh? We have discussed this before. See, I told you that their model is not of the modern era. The people in their cabinet are not of the era we are living in. The advisors and ministers around them seem to be living in an era of ignorance. In this era, a person should at least know an international language, know how to use gadgets, read good material daily, and be aware of the pragmatic and practical work happening in the world. How political administrators are working all over the world, they should know this. Look at Giorgia Meloni, the Prime Minister of Italy. She is from the right, an ultra-nationalist, but for the first time in 15-20 years, she is the Prime Minister who has established stability. In Italy, governments used to change every six or eight months. They were accused of corruption and crime. For three years, she has made herself a star in Europe. Brother Bilawal Bhutto, what is lacking in him? I say, why doesn't he become the Chief Minister of Sindh and lead from the front? He is an educated man. Let him form a team of educated people. But he is keen on becoming the Prime Minister. Brother, look, in this country, the Prime Minister cannot be appointed unless the establishment wants it and Punjab wants it. And now the establishment will demand things from you that are beyond your capacity to fulfill. You will want divisions, you will do them, you can do them. You can secretly give them your canals, your lands, all your things, but you cannot openly give them everything on a platter. And they will not listen to anything beyond everything. A pure federal democratic politics should be done. There is also a limit to corruption. Appoint me as the Chairman of the Public Service Commission. By all means, I am qualifying for it. Appoint me. Let me see how I will... I will have a good board, and I will see how corruption happens, how fake recruitments are made. When I don't do it for my son, no power in the world can make me do wrong. These people actually don't want to do it. Even if they want to, they don't know how this world is running. So, in your opinion, Bilawal Bhutto Zardari should first become the Chief Minister of Sindh and serve his province? This province can only be fixed if Bilawal Bhutto gets involved. See, we are giving advice. They are educated people. Murad Ali Shah is also not bad. We don't expect anything from a person like Murad Ali Shah, given the kind of politics he is involved in. Oh brother, you have a good background. Abdullah Shah was a strong administrator, a good Chief Minister of Sindh. He has a legacy. You yourself are educated, an NED graduate. Shah Sahib's complex is that he brings non-Sindhis close to him because he thinks all Sindhis are fools. I'm telling you, their minds... you see his friends from NED, Urdu-speaking friends, people who speak other languages, he brings them forward. If he meets a non-Sindhi in America, he brings them forward. Brother, Sindhi people are educated. They are competing now. These thousands and lakhs of people who are abroad now. Show me an organization like Sana, built by any other community in Pakistan. The European Association of Sindhis is in Australia, in Australia, everywhere. All of them are competing and sitting there. They are all like Iqbal Tareen. Show us a person like him. Why don't they come here? And when Imran Khan brings Sana Nishter from abroad, why don't you find people from abroad and bring them here? There are educated people sitting in very good positions, competing in American, British, Australian societies. A person like Majid Burqadi is sitting in Seattle. Your mind doesn't work. And let me tell you, this is my own observation, that the higher the position a person holds, the more their mind stops working. It stops. Yes, it stops. There is so much pressure on it. Bhutto Sahib, the higher the position he held, the higher he rose. He was a genius, wasn't he? See, Bhutto was a genius. These people don't even come close to him. He used to sleep for 4 hours. These people sleep at 5 AM and wake up at 1 PM. Bhutto Sahib had a photographic memory. You don't compare them with this ordinary material. So, my point is that they are not future-oriented at all. Half of the ministers probably don't know who Warren Buffett is. They don't know who that new Tesla guy is. What is Microsoft? And it's the old model. They have made some duds as front men, brought from God knows where. He robs them from there, some in his pocket, some in theirs, some in the upper pocket. Is this a model of governance? Brother, you are not just Ali Hassan Zardari, are you? Sardar Shah is also there. Sardar Shah is there. He is our friend. The entire emphasis is on poetry, isn't it? We will believe it when we see something done in education in 5 years. In English, they say, "Don't see what is far and in the middle. See what is clear at your hand." We know what is happening in our... how many children have returned to the educational net, how many bathrooms have been built, how many buildings have been fixed, how much progress has been made towards distance education. This group sitting here, they are good, but an ideal person is recognized by their team, aren't they? Who are their advisors? Who is close to them? We have been very good friends for about 25-30 years. In Hindi, they say, "Lagoo to pe aana." Yes, it is there. So, have you seen the result of that Mawali? We call him better than all of them. He is an administrator, and God has given him a position at a young age. He has exposure to literature and the outside world. He recognizes everyday life. So if even he cannot do it, then whom should we blame? He also has handicaps. Troubles are also upon him. Give him a free hand. Look, there are half a dozen Chief Ministers roaming around in Sindh. Practically, Farial Talpur is also there, Shajeel Memon is also there, Nasir Shah is also there, Murad Ali Shah is also there, Bilawal Bhutto is also there, and two or three others. Now, tell me, Zardari Sahib himself, who knows what he is? He is the father of the ministers too. So when your power is not concentrated in one place. Look at Maryam Nawaz. She is a decision-maker. Her uncles and aunts are not sitting above her. So then make your sister Farial Talpur the Chief Minister. What's the harm? We say, "Let the reflection be in the mirror, but someone else behind the mirror." Let's not have that kind of situation. Come forward honestly, face the challenges. We say that the People's Party has been in power in Sindh, but they should just deliver, improve their governance model. The others are not exactly Bert and Russell, nor are they children of Franz Kafka. They are also like this, they have also been tried. Half of those sitting in the People's Party were previously in other parties. We just expect that whoever comes should improve the governance model. And what kind of governance model should it be? Explain a little. That's all. Look at Kejriwal sitting in Delhi. Look at Chandrababu Naidu's governance model. Look at Nitish Kumar's model. There are three or four very good models in our neighboring country. What they did was, in the big supermarkets in Karachi, Imtiaz and so on, they removed the intermediaries – the retailers and the distributors and the wholesalers. They went directly to the factory, got the goods, and delivered them directly to the customer. When the profit of three or four people was cut, the customer benefited directly. And they became popular in a year. So they also need to remove the middlemen. And you will see that things will improve. So this is a governance model. Simplify it. That is, eliminate the various channels in between. Provide direct relief to the public. Make it direct and transparent, and open things up. See, in a society like ours, 100% things cannot be fixed. Let's say 20%. Who was Fazle Haq, the Governor? During General Zia's time, the most record progress happened during his tenure in KP. He called engineers and said, "Brother, add 20% for your bribe money in every project. If it goes beyond 20-21%, I will not spare you." So, brother, you can take 20% corruption, 25%, but when you provide relief to the common people, your governance model will be accepted. It's astonishing that Sindh is their crop, their land. They have to live here. They will get votes from here. They have to govern here. They cannot fix their crop, their tree, their hut. Do you know how much money has been spent in Sindh in 17 years, just in the development sector? Do you know, sir? I have no idea. More than 8000 billion. Because they have taken loans of 4000 billion from donor organizations and banks. And about 4000 billion is their own development, provincial, district, and federal government combined. 8000 billion has been spent in this province, and do you see anything? Brother, it is by the grace of God and the prayers of the elders. Sindh has everything. It has a coastline of about 5-600 kilometers, mountains, minerals, plains, water, land. What doesn't it have? This province sustains itself even in the worst conditions. But it also runs the entire country. So it is fortunate. They should make some effort. There is enough money; there is no need to borrow. The real issue is that it is easier to take commissions from the loans taken from abroad. Now they have put the Chinese, the World Bank, the IMF... well, not the IMF. All the Asian banks are on their line. "This project will give you this, and we will get that." I am talking about one project, which is about 100 billion. In that, a Sindh bureaucrat, you also know, even those decent people, I think they got their share of 1.5 to 2 billion, although they never ask for it. So what must others have done? Also, the institutions against this are more corrupt than them. The name "Anti-Corruption" should actually be "Pro-Corruption." Like NAB, like others, FIA. They have all these institutions adjusted. And believe me, God is my witness, Mansoor Mugheri Sahib, when I sometimes see people sitting on the streets, my conscience blames me that I am also responsible for their condition. Seeing their condition, that an affluent province with more than 5000 years of history, which has survived in difficult situations, and which is rich in heritage, its children, 80 lakh, are out of school. About 50-60-70 lakh people are begging on the roads. And if you go to the villages, they say NIC video... brother, they must have made it, but first, look at their expenses. Second, we will ask what the basic health unit, the rural health center, has received. What facilities are there in the civil hospital? Generally... Let me say on a positive note, during the People's Party's tenure, roads in Sindh have been built quite well. Special health facilities have improved. Emergency health facilities have improved. There has been some improvement in education in some places. Generally, the situation is very bad. But the condition of other departments is pathetic. And Sir, how much money has been spent on irrigation? Is there any account? It's like what they say, "Listen from this ear, take it out from that ear, put it in this pocket, take it out from here." These are very profitable departments. Works and Services. What is the job of Works and Services? To maintain all government buildings and roads, and to build new ones, and to maintain them. Do you see any maintenance? It must be on paper. You know our relatives, Sheikhs, are a mafia. They are spread everywhere. Why are Sheikhs called a mafia? It means they are spread everywhere. From the police to everywhere now. Believe me, even the assistant engineers, XENs in these departments have become billionaires. And they are good facilitators. Memons and Sheikhs get more postings. But let me tell you, it's reaching a point where enough is enough. Sir, is it true that in these 15-17 years, about 15-20 thousand people have become very rich, and more than 5 crore people have become poor? Is this true? Absolutely. Brother, look at it. There are some indicators. Look at how many children have dropped out of school. Look at the unemployment rate. Look at how much industrialization has occurred. Look at how many institutions have been destroyed. STEP is... Punjab's STEP. Yes. Punjab's STEP. It sends furniture worth billions of rupees to government institutions. Where the audit process is completely finished. This unfortunate STEP in Sindh has buildings, equipment, staff, but no will. It has material. Yes, it has everything. They appoint someone from above who just does cosmetic work, shifts funds from here to there. What is their production? No attention is paid to that. How long will this model last? Believe me, now that Form 47 is about to be abolished, then you will see what happened in the Karachi by-elections. It was a big drama. It's like that inside, but at the last moment, Form 47 comes. There are many seats where everyone knows who is winning. Sheikh Sahib, you have touched upon a good topic. Earlier, these politicians used to win by manipulating the presiding officer. Then came the RO, Returning Officer, then DRO, then NADRA, and now Form 47. In this way, every time, these new things, how do they devise them? This is the journey of progress, isn't it? Look, there has been a lot of progress in two-number work in Sindh, and this is also a part of it. But compare it, who was in Bhutto Sahib's cabinet? Mubashir Hasan, J.A. Rahim, Meraj Muhammad Khan, Meraj Khalid, Sheikh Rashid... not this one, the other one, the comrade Sheikh Rashid, Hanif Ramay, S.M. Masood, Abdul... yes, the most capable men in their respective fields. And the people they have recruited, look at them yourself and give an estimate. And I don't understand, brother, you have taken the President's seat, you are also the Speaker, the Chairman of the Senate, the Deputy Speaker. So why don't you go into the federal cabinet? Just because the 10-15 tasks of Sindh were not done? When you are part of the power, you take all the positions where you are facilitated. Where the public was supposed to be facilitated, which 101 tasks are not being done? Brother, at least I have seen with my own eyes that Khursheed Shah's bungalow used to be crowded. Someone called, someone's work was done. Similarly, two or four other federal ministers used to be there, so the common man's work was also done. Now, let me tell you, Sindh is infamous for operating on quotas. Sindh's quota in federal institutions, ministries, is not even 5% for Sindh, including Urdu speakers and Sindhi speakers. It's not even 5%, whereas our quota should be more than 20%. Who did this? Sindhi people say, brother, who drowned this? Sardar Shah drowned it. Brother, when you are part of the power, take full power so that the public also benefits. Your constituents reach your ministers, 10 tasks are done, someone is called, someone is facilitated, someone's transfer happens. So it's not understood that this is just to benefit that coterie. You said that the funds they have taken from abroad, look at all the projects. All these projects, these offices they have made in bungalows, more than 80% of the projects have failed here. They have failed. And they have rented out their own bungalows for these projects. They pay billions of rupees in rent. Projects are running in these. Ministers sit there secretly. A whole business is running there. Brother, tell me, you are such an old journalist, Mansoor Sahib. You have measured every inch of this city. These duds cannot even build two towers, the barracks of the Sindh Secretariat, so that all the offices of the entire city can fit into those two towers. They pay billions in rent. For 5 billion rupees, one tower can be built. For 5 billion rupees, what is 50 billion rupees for a government? You have given a secretary 20-40 crore rupees in authority for development schemes. You build two towers for 20-50 crore. The MPA hostel... I am surprised. I heard "Sanam, your waist is also..." Where is it? The issue of "where is it?" It's being built, but it's not being built. Then it was occupied. The Director General of Culture, here and there, in the assembly... I don't know. Do you know what scams have happened in the assembly? They can't do anything. Brother, these are your own buildings. Build two towers on them, and all your offices will come there. Allocate half each to every department. These secret dealings... Sir, you mentioned bungalows, that officers and ministers have taken bungalows and rented them out for projects. You are a very old man. You have traveled all over Sindh. If you go back 20 years, how many people had bungalows, houses, especially politicians, you saw them before. Now look how many there are. Brother, as you said, there are about 10-15 thousand people. Among them are not just politicians. There are engineers, deputy commissioners, bureaucrats. There are politicians. There are front men for them. All of them, from the district and taluka level to the province, together plan at night how to extract wealth the next day. Engineers of grade 17-18 have billions of assets abroad. Secretaries, every secretary... they are not all like Jamal Mustafa Syed, who left his chance of becoming Chief Secretary and left the job. People at the secretary level, look at what they have built abroad. Go and see those honest literary secretaries. So in this loot and plunder, whoever has come, don't just say politicians; whoever has come, even literary figures have snatched some Ajrak. Literary figures have also taken wealth from somewhere. Have you seen, Sir, that this government has greatly honored the literary figures? How do you see it? In terms of literature and art, look at our time. We remember good times when G.M. Syed built institutions, when Miran Muhammad Shah built institutions, when the Rajdeep brothers worked. Dr. Baloch and Dr. Umar bin Daud Poto, these people were ministers, secretaries. Allama Qazi was also a Vice-Chancellor. They built institutions. As for today's literary figures, their dream is a ticket to Islamabad, an invitation to a government function, some small work, or some stipend or gift or charity, whatever it is. This is the condition of the majority. And what you said this morning, brother, we call it persona non grata, undesirable personalities. We are so because we say, "Brother, have we taken any wealth from you? Bring it." I was the secretary of the Sindhi Adabi Board for three years. Their record is there, every record of mine is there. And I speak out the most against the illegal and unlawful occupation of Makhdoom Sahib. The records are with them, aren't they? Let them open them. This is because, brother, we beggars don't care. Whatever desires a person has. They have fulfilled their favorite love, gained their favorite education, met their favorite friends, and traveled around. This is all that will come out of my house after I die: letters from a few beauties, a few pictures. Wow, wow, wow. That's it.