From Success to Setbacks - Ste Hamilton Breaks His Silence

Steve Hamilton, thank you for joining me.

You're welcome. Um for anyone who doesn't know, I always start with who is Steve Hamilton? Um so I am a property developer that started in 2015 in this industry and I approached social media in 2021 and turned a education company into one of the biggest in the UK um called Property Circle and been in it for 11 years now. Um kid from council estates done all right, decent and just plodding along every day.

I love that. How old are you now, Steve Hamilton? 42.

42? Yeah. Looking well, mate. To be fair, yeah. I thought you'd be a couple of years older than me, to be honest. How old are you? Uh 34.

Okay. 42. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Good stuff, mate. So, where where are you where are you from?

So, I was born in Smethwick, um Sandwell Hospital raised right next to the Albion ground and then at 8 years old we moved to Willenhall Yeah. in Walsall Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. >> lived with my mom, my step sister, sorry, my step sister, my sister and my stepdad. Um and I basically left Willenhall when I was 17, 16 when I moved in with my nan and grandad back in Smethwick. So, I was between the two Yeah. my whole life, yeah.

Well, it's just the West Midlands, isn't it? >> Yeah, West Midlands, yeah.

Do do you know your dad, Steve Hamilton?

Yeah, so my dad me and my dad have got a great relationship. Um we we we we get on really well. He I've got two children and he loves my children and our relationship now is the best it's ever been. Um but my dad's just been diagnosed with stage four kidney failure. Oh, no. Um last week, yeah. It's um it's a shock really cuz my dad's quite like if you've got a problem so with me, I'm a guy that if there's a problem I'll fix the problem. I'm a problem solver. My dad's the identical thing as well. If I've got a problem that I'm like kind of struggling with, I'm always like, "Oh, my dad will sort it. My dad will sort it." So, to see him not well it's kind of like, "Ooh, I've never seen him like tired and struggling and stuff like that." So, it's not a nice thing, but it's part and parcel of life.

>> Yeah, I've I can relate, mate. I lost my dad at 20. He He had stage four brain cancer. And uh same again, just a great chap. Just just when you get older, I'd say I've got kids myself now. I've got two little boys. I just think of it more thing like more like recent years, you know, you just you realize what you've missed out on really. But then be lucky that I've had him for for so long anyway. I think that comes with age. Like you said, children coming into your own life as well. Kind of puts things into perspective.

>> are the kids there, mate? Three and one.

>> Three and one. I've I've got four and two Louis two next month. So, probably yeah. Three and one. Cruising Capri level. They're they're they're Yeah, they're amazing.

>> They're feared then. Chaos, isn't it? Yes, it is.

But how did you get into property?

So, my story's great. Um one down, write a book, honey. Yeah. Left school at 15 years old. And in 2015, I was working for some people some solicitors, very intelligent people who were showing me how the world works. And I I managed to save some money. I used to do a lot of things I shouldn't do when I was growing up. It is what it is. Um Didn't really have direction. My mom passed away when I was 23. She had a brain aneurysm. It was overnight. It was just completely out of the blue. And at 23, I was on benefits. I was messing around with the wrong people. Just hanging around with the wrong crowds. I got given an opportunity by a by a guy called Sean Feenan. Who has a kind of whole different way in life now, but that's another story. Um and I worked in a law firm for a very long time. And I managed to save some money. And I was surrounded by some very intelligent people, doctors and stuff like that. And I managed to buy my first buy-to-let in 2015 for 48,000 lb.

Where was that? In Willenhall.

Willenhall, is that Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is that it. And I still own it today.

Still own it today? Yes, to this day.

With um what did you what did you do with it when you got it? What was

So, now so so this is the thing about it. Um when I bought it, property wasn't my main focus, obviously. Um my main focus was just to live, survive, get some more money. I was doing really well. Um you know, from where I'm from and where I was in 2015, I was doing really well. And um when I bought it, I basically I bought it cash um and I rented it out. Yeah. And I think I was getting 650 a month.

That's good. I actually felt like I was Donald Trump. I felt like now I'm I'm a landlord. I'm a property owner.

>> messing around.

>> Yeah, I really did think I was like that guy. Um and I had a really good conversation with a doctor called Dr. Prasad who's still super close to me now. His whole family are they're all they're all um they're all doctors. His whole family, brothers, sisters, um dad, everybody. But they're also property investors. And when I explained to him that I bought it cash, he called me stupid. He was like you would there's mortgages like you wouldn't have had to put that down. I didn't understand any of it. And he just explained the BRR to me, the buy, refurbish, refinance, rent. But he explained it in a way where it wasn't like an education. It was kind of like Steve, if you buy something, you add some value, and you can add value by, you know, kitchens and bathrooms and stuff, and you might be able to pull a lot of your money out, etc., etc. And when he explained it to me, you know, when you're you're like a light bulb suddenly goes off, you kind of I don't know what's going on here. And it was it was literally I fell into it more than it was [clears throat] a planned operation. I've just only before that literally what made my life is we had like a T5 van. It was the really it was a dogs it was. Looked great. And I was like it was just sat on the drive and I was like we owned it. I was like it's a lot of money just sat there. I was like I'm still working. I've got no pension as such. I was like I loved it. After a couple of years I was like right, I need to get into it. So we bought a wreck um to to rent out. And then we literally did the BRR. I had no idea that was it called. But that's how the real people actually start in them. It's mainly unless you're like a second generation third generation property developers, property investors. The people who actually become you know, decent in this industry, they fell into it Yeah. or they've rolled into it some way or another. And that's what I did. I literally fell into it.

>> Yeah. Cuz I told him to ourselves is we done that. And like you said, we then we re- re- mortgaged. And like I said, got got all the money back out as well. We were like This is amazing.

>> This is [ __ ] brilliant. Yeah, yeah. So, sort of went to Well, we didn't with our own house to we done it to get this one here, to be fair. And then I appreciate is actually fun. I appreciate it. Appreciate it. So, that that's that I said. And then after this is that I want to learn now. And this is hence this and speaking to people like yourself and just people who have been so generous to come here and give me time.

So, thanks again for you for

No, man. You're more than welcome. Yeah. I'm I appreciate you reaching out.

So, when So, you go go from one house and then you started you started that chapter after that Yeah. And then building up Where's it going?

It still wasn't It still wasn't in my forefront to do what I've done now. It still wasn't in my forefront to do what I did now. It was more like exactly like you said, that was my pension.

>> Yeah. Cuz growing up on a council estate um we're taught in my generation and my era and where I'm from, it was you try and buy your own house. Yeah. And if you can buy one other house that you rent out, there's your pension for when you retire at 65 or whatever age you retire at. So my thought process, even when I was doing okay in life with the job I had, it was kind of like oh, well, I've got a house now. Like I'm all right. Technically.

>> Yeah. But then when you actually open your eyes up to the world, you kind of like, well, I'm not actually all right cuz this [snorts] this going to make no difference whatsoever really in the in the in the future of things. Um so, that took me took me about 18 months to save some more money to go and get another one. And then once I got to my second one that's when I was like, right, this is this is me. This is what I want to do forever and a day. Um and the one thing that I I've always had is that I I I've always had a great network. So a lot of people who know me, who've known me for a very long time, know that I know a lot of people. I'm very well connected. I have very good people around me. Um and I was able to use a lot of estate agents and like I said, I had lots of doctors around me. I had lots of um solicitors, lawyers, people who you know, like them corporate jobs.

>> Yeah, yeah. So, I had a lot of people around me and I I was guided in a in a good way. Never educated by an educator like my uncle or people out there. But, yeah, it it was it was um it was something where the light bulb went off and I was like, all right, this is what I want to do. Because I'm very good at seeing something and seeing what it can be. I'm very creative. Um I have a very good eye for things. So, when it was like developing properties, it was like, oh my god, this is like my dream.

>> Mhm. I love this kind of thing. Um but obviously, it's just not as simple as buying a house, developing it, getting paid. Um there's a million things that goes with it that you learn as you go through the system.

When did you So, when that is when when did you um when did you first get into training? What what made you What made you think to do that as well?

>> Yeah, 2021. 2021. March 2021. Um I'd been in the industry for 6 years. Had a conversation with a very famous person in the world. Um and when I say a very famous person in the world, I mean in the world.

>> Yeah, yeah. He's probably one of the most famous people in the world um in his sector. And he was kind of like, "Steve, you know, you should you should be teaching people what you know." Because I was talking, having conversations. Um a a bit like you today. There's no script. I've not asked you to ask any questions. You've not given me a list of questions. I'm very good at what I've done.

>> Mhm. So, they was like, "Why don't you teach? There's a lot of people out there that teach the wrong information. Uh a lot of people out there that sell dreams and X Y and Z." Um and have a go. So, I did. 2021, March. I sat in an office in Burton. And I was like, all right, I'm going to do an education class. Been on social media for about 6 months. And I did my first one sold out. And then, yeah, 5 years fast forward.

Did Did you say Did you say in Burton? Yeah. Is it Why Why Burton?

Just Um so, there was a an office unit in Burton that I used to have some storage there. So, I just went in one day and said, "You got a nice beautiful office." I said, "Can I rent it?" And they was like, "Yeah." And I just decided to do it. It was literally, when I said to you, that off the cuff. Yeah. Yeah. It was genuinely, I wanted to try it in when I got an office, packed it out with computers, put some desks in there, and then 3 weeks later, I did my first ever ever education class. It was sold out.

Fair play. I'm I'm a lot more interested in this stuff now. How would you How did you advertise that? Just cuz you You social You social blow up straight away?

Just Just going on social media. I think Do you know what it is? Um and I'm presuming you're going to touch on this later on in the interview. Social media is a double-edged sword.

>> Yeah. It has some fantastic benefits, but then it also has some really bad downfalls and and negativity, you know. I I believe that's part of the youth case culture. Um but again, I don't know whether you're going to go through that later on. But um everything I've done, every single thing I've done has been organic. Yeah. Um my YouTube channel's on 32,000 subscribers in 5 years. Um I could easily buy 100,000 subscribers. I could literally go I could sit here now with you and put 100,000 subscribers on my channel. I could put 100,000 subscribers on my Instagram. Everything you've seen is organic. Um I've built it genuinely because I don't want to be one of those guys who's got half million followers on YouTube, and then they're getting two, four, 5,000 views. I didn't know that till a few few years ago. You can actually People actually do actually buy followers. You can You can literally go online, type in Google, "Buy followers for YouTube," pay, and they'll be on your YouTube channel in 10 minutes.

>> Yeah. It's [ __ ] that. But But when you're on YouTube, you get this You get play buttons. Have you seen them? The silver plaques and the gold plaques.

Yes, I have, mate. So, when you hit 100,000 subscribers, you get silver. And I think when you hit a million, you get the gold one. When you hit 10 million, you get the diamond one.

I need the plaque. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So, if you buy the followers, you don't get the plaque.

>> Oh, is that so? Yeah, yeah. So, if you look at so many of like I mean I you got to use my thing for example. If you look at Property Education, if you go online now and you see how many educators in my sector got 100,000 subscribers, there's never a picture of any of them with a silver plaque. Now, you think the way that we promote our business is as soon as you get that silver plaque,

>> it, wouldn't you? it's the first [ __ ] picture when you look on the internet. You're there proud as punch that you built something from a zero to 100,000, none of them have got one.

I never knew that to be fair, but someone I know has actually got one of them. I don't know what the the amount was, but Yeah. I mean, it's got more than that anyway. I don't know what it was. So, my mate Louie, who has given me a lot of tips and advice, he told me how long it's going to take cuz my niche of properties is like this big. Yeah. So, we're not huge on YouTube. We're not jumping off buildings, breaking legs, or setting cars on fire. So, it's entertainment. So, he's like, "It's going to take you a very long time to get to 100,000 subscribers." Um but yeah, it's it's something that I I have to achieve. And like I said, I could easily buy the followers.

>> Yeah, I thought yeah. But what's I It'd just be fake, wouldn't It makes no sense. I want that photo of me and get the get the the amount.

So, go go to the education and that. So, where is it first one Burton and then how did you get to be one of the biggest in the UK?

>> I just I think I think authenticity. I think you know, like I I I I tell the truth even when shit's going wrong. I say like shit's going wrong. Um Why teach is And again, if you know me personally, you've never met me in your Never. First first time. First time we've ever met. Um I'm exceptionally good at what I do. I know what I've done in my career, I'm I've done multiple times. So, you'll get a lot of educators out there that will do one flip and then they'll sell a flipping course. You'll get someone who does a rent to rent and sells a rent to rent course and it'll be all right. And all power to them if it works and they get paid amazing as long as they're giving the right information. Me, I've done 50 BRRs, 50 flips, 100 deals sourced. You know, these are just off the cuff. Yeah, yeah. And and I I'm experienced in that. So, what I'm experienced in, if you ever if you ever see me teach, like I do live in person, and they usually start from 10:00 till 5:00, 10:00 till 6:00. There's no format There's no format. Yeah. It's me on stage speaking about it for 8 hours, showing you how it's done from start to finish with no no PowerPoint, no plan, or nothing like that because it's inbred. It's It's in my brain. It's It's in me. So, when it comes to education and people listen to me, I think because a lot of people jump from one educator to the other educator because they're not getting the success they want. I think when a lot of people see me, they go, "Well, that's completely different to anything I've ever learned off anyone else." And he is like he's telling us things that no one else has told us. I think that's what it was. I think it's all offensive to say.

Where did you after you I want to go back to So, you go from Burton. So, where did you go to grow it out?

Yeah, yeah, it was It was quite Like I said, it's everything's been organic. Yeah, so I get that, but when So, when did you go to Burton Where did you Where Yeah, so I went to Colmore after that. Yeah, 4 years. Had my offices in Colmore off for 4 years. Um I used to do a lot of events at Millennium Point, 4 500 people. I sold them out in Birmingham. Auditoriums. I sold I did six shows, sold all six out.

Did you go with Sorry, did you Did you go Did you go over to Did you go to London or did you

Yeah, so I went to London, Manchester. Yeah, I just did a few little things. And like I said, yeah, we've we've done exceptionally. I think I've taught over 6,000 people now.

And But, you know what it is? I And And And I think this is something that, you know, your audience might want to hear this, which is is quite important. People think buying a course or paying for a mentor is like some golden ticket to success. And And it's such a shame because, you know, a lot of people out there will will sell the dream. If you do this course, you can be financially free in a week. If you do this course, you will be a millionaire in a year. If you do this course, this is where it leads you. Now, the course is going to lead you to financial freedom. It can lead you to becoming a millionaire. It can lead you to escaping your 9-5. But the course in itself is just the information. Um as long as it's the correct information, it can lead there. But to get to the goal that you're trying to get to, the course is not the thing that's going to make it happen. That's just just [clears throat] like the one part of it that you need. You get out what you put in, don't you? You're the one that needs to has to implement it. You're the one that has to go out there. And it's such a shame because I see some very intelligent people coming into the education sector and they're like, "I want to buy that course." And then they're like, "Well, if I do that course, then how long is it going to take me to leave my job?" I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I know from that question that like, you know, you're in trouble because anybody who understands it, it's like when you go to school, it's kind of like you go to school for what? 11 to 16 and then 16 to 18, 18 to 21. Some some careers are 5, 6, 7 years in university. There's a process and you've got to go through the process. And and and it's such a shame because I think people just automatically think there's a there's a get-rich-quick or something like that and there isn't

What with How long would your training take?

Um well, it depends. So, I have online training. I have in-person training. Um again, someone can do my deal sourcing course and they could probably go out and source a deal next week. Someone can do my deal sourcing course but needs to watch it three or four or five or six times before they even go out and get a deal. It takes 6 months. It's the person. It's the same information. And it's just that humans take it in in different ways. So, there's there's no real answers. My friend did some training and he paid uh I think it was 7,000 I think he paid. Um and I think he he he he done it again after and he said he said, "Being honest," he said, "you could probably learn everything you learn at home on YouTube and thing, but it was sort of a fast track for him." Sort of like There's there's arguments between both. Like if both did a course. Yeah, yeah, like if with me, I built an app on a white-label platform. Um Hamilton Hamilton University.

What's a white-label thing like that?

Some people got to build an app from scratch. Okay, and they'll build their own app that's in the Apple Store and stuff like that. Or, if you're smart, you're not stupid, you'll find a white label company that's already built the app. And then you pay to rent the space off them and you can do the app exactly how you want to do it, but they've already done the hard work. So, it's like my app cost me, I think, 900 pound a month. Okay, [clears throat] it's where all my community go into, all my courses are on there. Um it's pretty cool. Um well, it's really cool. But, I'm the teacher.

>> [clears throat]

>> I'm the educator. I'm the one that does the monthly zooms. I'm the one that does the questions and answers. I'm the one that does the courses. I have no coaches or, you know, a lot of a lot of the the You know, I We could go on and on and on, but the education sector in the UK when it comes to properties absolutely [ __ ] It's the worst. It it it is so bad because everyone's attacking everybody. Everyone's trying to pinch off everybody. Everybody's trying to knock everybody else down. Everybody's trying to do certain things. Everyone's naming and shaming people. And what they're actually doing is they're just tarnishing the industry. They think they're not, but they don't realize that they're like, you know, if there's a if there's somebody watching from the outside who goes, "I want to learn about property. Who can teach me? Oh, this person, this person, this person." They watch YouTube channels and they watch the Instagrams and social medias like, "Oh my god, they're just always attacking and swearing and shouting and calling each other out." And they're like, "I don't want to do that. I'll go back to work." People don't understand [clears throat] the effect that it actually has. Um and again, the affordability side of it as well. Like, I'm a property developer first and I'm an educator second. Um even though for the last year, like I buried my head in the sand a lot. Um education's so expensive, it's ridiculous. I try make it as affordable as possible. And I I I can stress that what I charge, you can clearly see is the cheapest in the country, clearly by a million miles. But, then people associate me with easy crap cuz they're the cheapest. Well, do the most expensive and then do mine, and I guarantee you mine is a hundred million times better than anything you've seen. But again, it's just the person, it's the people, it's nothing else.

>> Can I Can I ask what would your training cost?

Anything from online course, 250 quid, up to a grand. Yeah. So, that's that's It's affordable. Yeah. And I guarantee you if you put it against any other online courses in this country, you can name anybody, and it's a million times better than all of them. I live and breathe it. I'm a value for money sort of guy I am. Like that I've got a another friend of mine, he's paid 15,000 pounds.

>> I And that's the dumbest thing I've ever seen. And I know who he's paid at 15 grand, cuz there's only one person.

Oh, is it this guy? I I did Yeah. And that 15 grand, I've got that course. Yeah. Um and it's it's again, I'm I'm not going to name anybody cuz it's not going to come out. But, it's horrendous. Yeah.

>> And my course is that at 250 quid, piss all over them. And even the documentation, the information. But again, because it's 15 grand, you In your brain, you're like, "Oh my god, that's going to get me to a million." I've explained this to him before. He did it to try and get his wife on board, cuz they were doing it together. And then Cuz they allow the partners to join. Yeah. And then And then she did it for a bit, and then she lost her interest in it. So, he's going to be mad I've brought this up on air. I'm a little bit worried. It's just a little gentle reminder for him. It is what it is.

Well, it's like I said, I think I I am I wouldn't be against it in the slightest. I'm just like I said, I'm value for money sort of person, and then it's it's just got to make sense to Yeah. Well, yeah. That That That's what I've done in Um but yeah, it's um it's a it's a tough world, the education world in in social media.

What The company again, so what Can I ask you what advice would you give someone just starting?

It was a good question. Find somebody you relate to.

>> Mhm. Somebody who you your guts telling you is the right person. Don't listen to other people. You've got to make your own decisions. And you you have to get educated, because I've made some grave mistakes. And if I'd have had a a real good mentor at the time, I wouldn't have made those mistakes. Um so, you have to get an education. It's It's It's the key. Everything you do You said you're a lorry driver. Yes. Who taught you? What? A bunch of people taught you how to drive. They told you what to do. You had to read a book to pass a certain test.

>> Yeah, you did the theory test. So, did you get educated? Yeah, it's good quality. I did the theories and that. Yeah, so I was I was I did the driving. Same thing, isn't it? Yeah, so I did get it. And the driving instructor took you out and told you how to do X, Y, and Z. It's Everything in the world you need educating.

>> Well, we may we may ask the viewers. I'll just ask this like that. What do you think of the new government rules? And what would you do to make it fair for landlord and tenants?

So, we're about the the the renters. The renters. Yeah, yeah, that's what I was saying. Right, so I I don't know if I'll stop again. No, I did a video on YouTube the other day. It's quite interesting. Um I think it's going to squeeze a lot of people out. Right, I think people are going to social So So the world doesn't work like the world used to work. Now the the the new the new rules and the new regulations, what happens is they'll pick the two worst things out and they'll explode on social media. So anybody who's not understanding the property will be like, "Oh my god, this sounds horrendous. I'm not getting into property or I'm getting out of property." But if you read between the lines and you understand it, it's It definitely definitely favors the tenants. That There's no ifs, ands, or buts about that. That's not a joke. But it isn't as bad as everyone makes out. Um a couple of the rules like, you know, we can't have more than one increase in rent a year, the the the notice period that they have to give, the the pets, etc., etc. Um you know, serving eviction notice, section 21's been done. It's gone and all that kind of stuff. To me, it's just a just a new set of rules that you have to pivot and and just figure out how to move forward. Smart people don't see the problem. They look for the solution. Negative people who are technically never going to do anything are the ones that go, "Oh my god, there's a problem." Like look at that. Look at Always looking at the the the the negatives. I'm a guy But looks at something and I'm like, "Okay, yeah, that's the problem. I need the solution." Don't dwell on it cuz there's nothing you can do. You can't change it. You're not going to go into government and get to change anything. Try to figure out how to pivot. Um I think that for the next 18 months, 24 months, it's quite uncertain on how the rules are going to work and how the fines are going to happen cuz no one knows. So, I I think the best way to go forward now is government-backed contracts. Instead of your individual, you know, residential buy-to-lets, you know, your private tenants. I'd be keeping away from private tenants for the next 18 months, two years, three years if possible. See how it plays out, what what actually really does happen. And then if it works, go back into it. If not, I think the private sector of of landlords is one of the toughest anyway. Cuz they have so many rights. You can't get them out of your house. Um I've had a tenant who's been in my house for over a year now and not paid any rent. Um and and there's lots of little things that they can do and bounce off and stuff. And And it is what it is. But yeah, I'm I'm not so fussed about them. No. I'm genuinely not. I I don't think it's half bad, to be honest. I just thought it the the question cuz everyone's talking about it at the minute.

>> it's 60/40. I think it's 60% on the tenant side, 40% on the landlord side. It's always been in favor of the tenants in this country. So, it doesn't I'm I'm not Yeah, that's my take. My only thing I think when you know if they can move in and give them notice straight away, I think that's a bit I think it should be 6 months out. Well, that's quite bad cuz it's it's an 8-week thing as well. But you imagine like this is the bit that This is the bit that's a bit unfair. Say I rent to you and then you live there for a month and then you hand your notice in. Now, I have to go back to the estate agent if I'm doing private, and they have to do another check, another set of things to move in. So, that's another 500, 600, 700 quid. Imagine if that happens three times a year. That's the profit from your money that you make from buy-to-lets. Cuz you're only making, you know, on average 200 grand buy-to-let, [clears throat] you're only making three to five grand a year. Um if you're lucky. So, it could cause a lot of damage that way, yeah. That's my only That's my only thing with it. I just think like 6 months minimum and then roll them over. I think that's more than fair cuz I don't think anyone should be tied into a year plus cuz you Life, you don't know what happens in life, do you? I've been thinking about everything. Yeah, I know what I mean. But um what can we get on to? I I said I've obviously right you come on you very kindly come down and give me time. I've been doing like doing some homework this week and I I only just seen the clip of the the podcast that happened about a year ago. Can we address that?

Right, you can like I said, there's no holds barred. I'm I'm you can address anything you want to address. Did you know that I just think nothing Serena

>> [laughter]

>> or protective Serena but no you you are more than welcome to there's no holds barred. I just thought people would want to ask I've never discussed it. Yeah, I mean no no no. I made a video on my own channel but I've never discussed this.

>> No. No. So, what did you know that woman? Yes. Yeah. Um could you ask do you find do you see The thing is you're going to you're going to see a change in the way I answer things now. Not because I'm media trained or anything like that or or nothing along those lines. It's because this is quite raw. Yeah, I know I I completely get that. There's a lot that goes into this. Your answers when I give you an answer if you need it explained a little bit more just say. This is very I'll put it out there. I'm no expert. I've only seen this this week. So I'm no judge or jury. I just I just thought my first impression when she said um Oh, can we have a can you have a chat and that she's like no it's my podcast. I I wouldn't treat her like that but then I don't know what's gone on prior. Yeah. Uh and then I just thought I'd ask.

Yeah, so so I've never discussed this on any platform ever and it's very raw, okay? It's very raw. Still raw a year later. She joined my community. She paid an amount of money to join my community and she sent me a couple of text messages and WhatsApps because most members who join my community they get I speak to them. You know, I to know who you are, what you do. You pay me, you know, £1,000 or whatever, £2,000, which was the prices to join all the courses back then. Uh and I want to know who you are, you know, can I help you? I always wanted to be that guy. You know, my whole slogan was be nice, be kind. It was my whole mantra for 5 years on social media. Um my whole life I've always been a nice, kind person. Um I have my ruthless side, but I believe in being nice and being kind because on the way up, you know, if you're not nice and kind, you're always going to come back down at some point. Um so, she had my number, we exchanged a few messages. I also knew she was part of another another educator's thing, but again, I'm not really fussed about that kind of stuff because people hop from one to the other. And then she just asked me, she said, "Would you do a podcast?" Um And I was like, "Ah, you know, I ain't been doing podcasts for a couple of months, so I you know, I I'm And she's like, "No, no, I'm a member of your community, you know, it's good." And And all these were on WhatsApp messages, which I do still have to this day. I still cuz I I I did keep them. Never to do anything about it, but just a reminder to myself. And then she was like, "You know, I'm pregnant, and you know, it'd be great to get it in before I have to go to Saudi Arabia. I'm having a baby when I come back." And all this kind of stuff. So, I was like, "You know, yeah, of course, I'll do it for you." And she booked the the podcast. Um Similar to what I've done with you. I've not asked you what questions you're going to ask me. The only thing that I've asked this time from you was to say, "Please sign this document to say that before it gets released on YouTube, we get to say yes or no." You know, that's the only thing I've asked of you. Uh but the questions and stuff, I said you can go. Um I didn't do anything with that. I didn't sign any NDAs. Turned up on the day. I had um I had my videographer with me. I had my sister with me. I had um a member of my community. There was four of us. We went in, and I'm just thinking it's going to be, you know, life stories, can you help this, can you do that? But obviously, from the first second I walked in before the cameras even went on, the tone was set when she turned around to all of my team and went, "You all need to shut up and sit there. This is my podcast room." And I kind of was like, "Who am I are you speaking to?" But, because she's a lady, I've been brought up with really good manners. So, like, if it was you, Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> I'd be like, "Hang on a second. What the [ __ ] Relax yourself. Like, I haven't just done not done anything." But, because she's a lady, I I I I I don't argue. I would never. I'm not one to raise my voice or anything like that. And then, obviously, from that second, I my gut was telling me there was something not right. And then, from the first couple of questions, my gut was telling me there was something wasn't right. Um there was a lot of things going on behind the scenes in my life that was falling apart. They knew certain things. There was people who were close to me that had given them information. And then, she just started to ask me questions. And then, like, I got into ground up development, so I bought quite a few pieces of land. I was um doing certain things which I've been doing a lot of, but I've just kept it off social media cuz I was learning.

>> What can you give to the audience? Ground up development is hard. Just So, when you build a house from the ground Literally just So, you you're getting into it.

>> I don't teach it. I don't educate it. I have no courses on it. I'm not an expert in it. It's something that I was just testing the waters to see how I liked it. And she started asking me some questions. I own quite a bit of land. I have got quite a lot of land. Um which is which is a nice thing to say. Um land's worthless until you get planning. Yeah. It is what it is. It's just grass and dirt. Um and I have a mentor who was teaching me how to do it. And I was explaining this in the podcast. But, she was nitpicking and she was going on. And I could just see where the interview was going. And she was just She was just She was there to to cause absolute carnage, which has been proven since. Um And then, after about 10 minutes, she was like, "No, what are you doing? Like, where are we going with this?" You know, she wanted to have quite a long conversation with me and explain to me what you're trying to say. And that's when she said that thing. Like, I just got up and walked out. Yeah.

>> Um I didn't cause any drama. I didn't say anything nasty. I didn't I didn't You can watch it back. I think you might have watched it. But, another thing that you don't actually know was, you know when I walked out of that room, there was two security guards outside the room in the hotel. So, just I want cuz They'd hired security guards.

>> Cuz in case you In case I kicked off in the room or tried to steal the the cameras and equipment and stuff. And there was two security guards outside the door. This has never ever been told by them. No one knows this.

That's sort of like premeditated sort of thing then you And then I don't know I I had my car parked outside. Mhm. Um cuz I live literally where the podcast was, I live a minute away from there.

>> Yeah. Um which is even weirder when you put that into context how they knew where I live.

>> Yeah. Um So, when I walked out of the room the the podcast room, um Another thing that Okay, so this is another thing that's quite important that I explain as well. If you watch that podcast, if you look at the quality of the setup.

>> Yeah. She had four cameramen. She had four professional cameramen in the room. In the podcast. Yeah, I've got that in here. But I I do podcast myself and I I have I have about two I have two videographers. Um but I only have two cameras. The camera crew was a professional camera crew. And then when we left the room and the two security guards was outside, um They they all ran to my car and they was all trying to see me get in my car. What they didn't realize is I live 1 minute away. So, I just went out the back door and went that way. Um I left my car there. The whole thing was just a complete setup. I mean, if you watch the actual podcast full Mhm. you can see that I was really good. I didn't say anything wrong. I didn't say anyone She asked me about certain educators as well. I I wasn't derogatory. When she asked me about Brandon, I was like, I'm not a professional. I'm just learning.

>> Yeah, I I need to tell you cuz I I watched it this week. Yeah. Um but then you know when it was edited for the Tik Tok reels and stuff like that, it was all completely

>> it? Oh, completely different.

>> seen any of that. I have to say this I generally haven't heard of that until this week. When I knew you were coming on, I thought Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There was there was a lot of editing and then there was a lot of paid advertising. So, that So, that they spent a lot of money on Tik Tok advertisement to get the ad to the

Have you ever seen her since? So Well, has anybody ever heard of her since?

>> I I'm totally obviously I'm new to this anyway. I haven't

>> I was the most biggest hit on her channel. Mhm. And then she disappeared into thin air. And that So, what was the point of it? It was just to bring me down and try and destroy me because there was a lot of bad things going on behind there. There was a lot of lot of negative stuff going

Wait a minute. Can you Can you say anything on that?

>> Yeah, of course you can. Well, um so so what happened was um we used to do earn and learn.

>> Yes. Um where people put money in, they can start, they can learn, they can do certain things. And um when you have a when when you was big as I am, okay? This is the thing that people don't understand. People think that my Lamborghinis, my Ferraris, my million pound houses, you know, my watches, my cars, all this fancy [ __ ] I've gotten all my drivers and stuff like that. They all think that that's because of social media. I've been doing this since 2017, 2018 at that level, okay?

>> I've I I had all of this before before I even came on social media. I lived in a million pound house. Um I've always had the best cars and the best watches and the best clothes. It's all my from a council estate. So, I spent my money on that. I liked it. I didn't have children at the time. Um so, people think, "Ah, he's only made it cuz he's on social media." No, no, no. I was already at the biggest level of my life Mhm. way before social media, okay? That's the case. Um But people didn't understand that. So, people then started going, "He's a scammer. He's a fraud, sir. He's a con artist. It's a Ponzi scheme. There's a bunch of characters out there doing certain things and putting stuff out about me." No, what happened was I had a team behind me and a big team. Mhm.

I had, um, like COOs and project managers and architects and builders, and, you know, we were doing 20, 30 projects at a time. Okay? All these people on social media are probably doing one flip. No, no. I, I, I, I'm a real property developer. Um, and it all just started crumbling down because I wasn't focusing my whole energy on what I'm good at. I was trying to be an educator, a mentor, a developer, a YouTuber, a podcaster, this and that, and I was trying to do everything. And to the outside world, it's amazing. "Oh my god, he's a he's superhuman." But you're only superhuman with the people behind you. As long as the people behind you've got you, you're good. People behind me had me, but they didn't have the experience I needed, and everything started to crumble. Everything was falling apart. My developments were going sideways. Um, bridging lenders were then charging 4% extra a month. Um, you know, projects were just overrun by a year, by 18 months, and then before you know it, all crumble. You get then called out on the internet.

>> Yeah. And then as you're keeping everything together, and making sure everything's good, and then that happened with the internet, well, then I just everything just started to fall apart. Um, and it's it's it was it was probably, I mean, you got to put it into context, okay? I lost my mom. Um, I've been through some really bad things in life. On a scale of 1 to 10, how horrific was it? It's a six, 'cause horrific is when people are dying of cancer and things like that. So, no, I can never say it was the worst thing that's ever happened in my life.

I was just about to ask that, to be honest. But in business, yeah, it's the worst thing that's ever happened in my entire life. It's a 10 in business, it's a six in life because no one died. Okay? Um, but to put it into context. Good perspectives. Yeah, 'cause you've got to have perspective. 'Cause if I came on here and said to you, "Oh my god, it's the worst thing that's ever happened in my life." It's full of [ __ ]. Yeah. As the worst thing that's happened in my life, my mom passed away or someone's ill with cancer, or my aunt is ill and stuff. So it's a six. In business, it's a 10.

>> Yeah, yeah. Um, and what happens is people don't understand. People get scared. "Oh my god, I gave Steve some money and I'm not getting it back. It must be fraud. Let's call the police." So people phone the police on me.

>> Did that happen?

No, no, no. No, I, I honestly don't know. 'Cause we can clearly discuss this. I have seen some stuff online. That's why I just I'm worried for that. But what people don't realize is, and this is this is the bit that makes me like, really upset. I'm still here a year and a month later, still working to make sure everybody gets paid back. But then you have the odd person who sticks the knife in, who then sends you 10 steps back, and you, you start thinking, "I owe you money and [clears throat] you're on the internet calling me all sorts of things." What do you think's going to happen from this? So, is is anyone owes me money? Is that a thing? Is that going to get paid back? Yeah, I'm still here working to make sure no one will ever lose to me. No. I'm a man. I'm a man that has to walk down the street with two children and a misses. The easiest thing for me to do was to declare myself bankrupt. Yeah. And then just disappear for 18 months. Then come back. Start again. And then when anybody calls me out, just go, "Oh, I limited company, limited protection. I've gone into bankruptcy and personally." No. So before I touch on the other part of that, I touch on, let me explain something to you. There was a, there was a company, and again, I don't know behind the scenes 'cause I can only go on what I am as me. They had 4 million pounds worth of investment. Very well-known guy and woman on social media. Similar to me. They're educators. That 4 million pounds worth of investments, they lost all the investors' money and they declared themselves bankrupt. And they released a statement 3 months ago on the internet saying, "Unfortunately, we are going under. I feel I'm really sorry to all my investors who have lost all their money. It's such a sad situation. I tried to keep it together, but I couldn't, and, you know, we've gone bankrupt." And then you know what he signed it out with at the end? Um, "This is the end of my property journey for now, but I will be back." So when I read this statement, I was kind of like, "Are you taking the [ __ ] piss, mate? You've just lost all everyone's money." And then, and then you've signed it off with, "Unfortunately, it's the end for now, but I'll be back." Yeah. And then, then I'm on the internet getting absolutely ripped to pieces because I'm probably the biggest name in the industry, and I'm getting ripped to pieces by going, "Yeah, we [ __ ] up. Yeah, but I'm going to stand up." But people are just wanting to tear me down. And it, it kills me because there's two sides to this. There's the one side of the people who trusted me who need their money back, and I didn't have it in time to give it them. Yeah, that must be tough. It's vile to have that on your shoulders as a man to know that there's people that was depending on each other, you know, take the family away, buy themselves a new car, do extensions on the houses, continue their property journey. They trusted a guy, me, and they're like, "He's let us down. Um, we don't know when it's all going to be resolved. I hate him." And all that. I get it. To go to sleep at night as a man, yeah, it's not nice. It's rough, okay? Knowing that I've caused that. That's that's so sad. And it plays on my mind every single day. Um, but I will resolve everything. But the other side of it as well is when people who don't know the situation are jumping on social media, putting their two pennies in. People who don't know one flip. "I knew he was a scammer. I knew them Ferraris weren't his and rented." 20 Ferraris all paid for. And that's not a that's not me bragging. That's me saying way before all this happened, I've I've had all this. The, the, the horrible part is when people jump on the bandwagon that don't even know what's going on. Yeah. That's the tough part. But the part that really upset me was when all this happened, my daughter was 2 weeks old. Um, first girl, second child. My Isabella is at home. The internet's blowing up, as you can imagine, in the property world, not in the real world. It's in the property world. In the real world, I'm nobody. Property world, I am a somebody. Um, to an extent. There's obviously million people bigger than me out there. But in my world, I'm I am who I am. And I'm seeing my Isabella in bed with my 14-day-old baby, and she's crying her eyes out because she's seen all this horrible stuff about me and all these negative, all these videos being made about me. It ruined like the first 3, 4 months of my baby, which is the bonding period.

>> Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, so, it was it was a double-edged sword in that side 'cause it really affected me, but then it was really affecting the people that trusted me, and it was making people lose, you know, like the trust in me, and it was it was disgusting. It's a horrible burden. And 99% of people wouldn't have come through it. No. That's the facts. And it's proven with how many people go bankrupt. Yeah. Um, me, I phoned everybody and I was like, "No, I will fix it. I don't have a time scale, but you've just got to let me get my [ __ ] sorted."

But you own all these houses? Yes. We own a lot, but it's not easy. You can't just sell a house and 'cause everything's 75/25. We had companies that went into liquidation. We had companies that was dissolved and we had to restore them. We had interest payments that was 4%. When you let a ball of snow roll down a hill,

>> [clears throat]

>> and you're not fully focused 'cause you're trying to firefight, that ball turns into this. And before you know it, you are underneath an avalanche that like you're drowning. Um, and that is exactly my life at the minute.

Is this, is this, so this all in a year then? Since April last year. April last year, isn't it? It's been, it's been hell. Yeah, I can imagine, mate. But it's also been hell for the people. It's been hell for the people who trusted me.

>> Yeah, 100%. You know, and that's that's what's hard for me. You don't want to lose any money as a cause.

No, no, it's disgusting.

>> If you've lost friends?

I've got, yeah, I, yeah, everybody. Just, not everybody? No, just, just been through it, honestly. Everybody? Yeah. Um, I had, I know I mean, every, yeah. Um, this is no joke. Um, has anyone stuck by you?

No. No. That, that, that must be sad.

Um, well, she's been amazing. Yeah. Like, she knew all of this before she even came on board. She's been incredible. Obviously, me and my Isabella are a team. Yeah. There ain't many people like us out there. We will, we are the strongest couple you will ever meet, and even this has tested us. Like, it's pushed us to our limits of like, "Oh my god." Um, but no, no, no, nobody, um, nobody's still buys.

>> That's sad, isn't it?

Well, I understand it.

>> It's, it's, it's, it's kind of, it's contact.

I understand it. It's kind of like, you know, people will people will support you when they can gain from you or or or, and when the going gets tough, you hear the story like, you know, if you can have one friend in a lifetime or two friends in a lifetime. And I understand people leaving, and I get it, like they don't want the stigma. They don't want to be attached to someone who's being called a fraud, someone who's being called a scammer, someone who's being called a con artist. Of course, nobody wants to attach themselves to that. But the, the worst part about it is they know me. Yeah. And that's

>> They don't know me 'cause nobody thought I'd still be here.

No. Not one single person thought I would still be here May this year. Nobody, because people have tried to sell newspaper stories. They've, I've had, I've had newspapers contact me saying like, "We've had all this information and we're going to print the story." The police obviously got involved and was like, "This is, this, we've been told it's a Ponzi scheme." I said, "No, this is a civil matter and everyone's going to get paid back." Um, so there's no, no, no, even no charges or anything. No charges, no nothing. The investigation is still ongoing. If they had anything to charge me with, I'd have, I'd have been charged by now. Everybody that has accused me of something has had money back. Yeah. So, one lady invested 50,000. She's had 25,000 pound back. Does that sound like someone who's going to scam someone? Uh, it's, well, no, I, I, I get, I get it from there. No one wants to lose that sort of money, do they? But, but the thing is, no one's losing money 'cause they're

>> Yeah, I don't agree with you. Yes, I, yeah.

But, um, it, it, it would be like, it's hard if I had 50,000 pounds. I would have been leaving it, to be honest. But I get, and I thought, credit if you, if you're saying you're going to pay everyone back. Yeah, I'm working my hardest. I'm out there every day. But they stick the knives in and they don't understand that to get companies out of, um, dissolvent, to get remortgages, to get bridging finances. We're not dealing with one or two properties. We're, we're with a lot of stuff and it's just mountains and mountains and mountains. And like the last, the last 13 months of my life have been in business the hardest time in my life. Um, the amount of times I've sat on the edge of my bed with my head in my hands like, just like, "Oh my god, like, how am I going to fix it?" Um, yeah, and then like watching every person leave me one by one. And the worst thing was before, before like, you know, like this happened, I'd done earn and learns and joint ventures in the hundreds. Yeah. And everybody'd been happy. Everyone'd been paid. No one came out and said, "Hang on a second. You know, I've got to be seeing past." No one.

Did it, did it get to, so you know, let's say before everything was going well, what, what would an earn and learn be?

>> Yeah, so basically somebody would put some a grand in or to whatever they want to put in. They'd get a return on the money between 6 and 12% depending on the projects and what's going on. They could learn on different sites. So they could learn about HMOs 'cause I have everything going on. I have HMOs. I have multi-blocks. I have single lets. I have bungalows. Um, and they'd go around for 12 months. They'd learn on the projects. They'd come with me. I'd use their money to do certain things or market and things like that. And then, yeah, if it was going great. And then I think the point of no return was was that day when I got attacked on social media. It went on for weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks. And then I think I don't know how anybody can ever say that it doesn't affect them. No, yeah. It affected me.

>> [clears throat]

>> But it affected me even more because I was watching my family get affected.

>> Yeah. And then you start thinking that everyone's judging you, every room you walk in. Uh, and then it had the biggest knock-on effect I've ever seen in my entire life. All of the award ceremonies, I mean, I, I was again

>> [snorts]

>> you don't know me. No. And this is important. So there's a fine line between cockiness and confidence. Okay? If you know me, you know I'm not a cocky person. I'm the nice nicest person I've met. I can be an [ __ ] if you are an [ __ ] to me, but I treat people how they treat me. Oh, yes. Um, but it was very difficult to find someone in this industry who was as good as me. Or is as good as me. And everybody wanted to be around me. And then as soon as you have this criticism, they jump ship. So like award ceremonies like started like pulling out. Um, stopped, wouldn't invite me to things. Educators stopped being around me. I didn't get invited to any of that, which I understand. People are protecting their brands.

But when people are protecting their brands that have got six followers, Yeah. it's full of [ __ ]. You're jumping on the bandwagon then.

Um, it was, it was, it was very difficult. And like I said, it, it, it's painful to me that knowing that I have people who trusted me are still waiting. And [clears throat] that's that's the burden as a man.

How come, how come you never spoke up till till now?

Um, I don't think I was ready. Mhm. I wanted people to see that I was still here. Mhm. And it's tough. It's a tough topic to speak about.

>> Yeah, good.

Because it's affected my life in more ways than you could ever imagine. Yeah. Um, just like it's probably affected the people who trusted me. You know what I'm saying? But when you put into context, like, you know, I've seen some educators go bankrupt owing, you know, 1,300 people money. Yeah. One went bankrupt the other day owing 640 people. Um, I think the biggest one I've seen in this country so far, which happened 18 months ago, was 13 and a half thousand people. Um, again, you'll know who they are, but it's not my job, I'm not to judge 'cause we don't know what happens behind the scenes. If the company's gone under and people have done certain things, that's that's a that's business, like, but it affects these people. In the grand scheme of things compared to all of this, is it that? Yeah, yeah. And, and I'm kind of like, you know, yeah, it's tough. Yeah, but if you're going to go to that and say you're going to fight every single one of them. Is it different? Fix everything.

>> Yeah, and they all know that.

Yeah, but some people don't believe you. Yeah. 'Cause actions speak louder than words. But financially, the last 13 months have been the most difficult. People are like, "But he still lives in a big house." And he's still doing sites and stuff. You don't know. Like, you have no idea. I've always lived in a big house. I've always, I'm not like, I've always had a Range Rover, a Lamborghini, a Bentley. I've always had a fleet. Like, if you watch my social media, I've always had a fleet. I don't have a fleet. I sold cars to pay people. Yeah. Um, I've always had the best watch collection you could ever imagine. I sold every single watch to to pay people back. Um, I've sold houses at losses to keep people. That's the right thing to do, isn't it? Course it is. Yeah, and I think that. How can I be on social media driving around in a Lamborghini when I owe you money? Yeah, yeah. It's disgusting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, it's absolutely disgusting. Um, but people don't see this. No, no, no. They don't see it. 'Cause if you, if you sold all your cars, then? All my? Yeah. The only car I have at the minute is a Range Rover. Yeah. That's on finance. Yeah, yeah. Just, yeah, just 'cause it's a, can't find it. It's not worth, I can't sell it 'cause it's not equity. It's a Range Rover. I have a V-Class. Mhm. Which again, family wagon, just get the kids around. Right. My, my kids will never go in it 'cause Isabella doesn't like. But, um, yeah, and, and people like, they'll go, "Oh, you're still flaunting." No. My Louis Vuitton collection, my, all the things that I've had them forever. I've always had trainers and I'm not out spending a grand on trainers. I owe people money. I'm fighting every day of my life to fix it. Um, but you always get the one. But the support has been good. Yeah. I will say since the turn of the year, I get the odd message here and there going, "You know what, Steve? Fair play to you now 'cause most people would have gone by now." Yeah. Um, and you're always going to have that stigma until it's all over. But when it's all over, I can stand proud and go, "I say, told you I'm not that guy." Um, but again, it's going to take time. I, I, I hope you do it. I really do. And then I'm going to it. But there are some people out there that are trying for it not to happen. There's people out there that are trying to force me to go bankrupt. They don't want their money. Oh, what? People that you owe money to? To? And they'd rather? Let me go bankrupt. Now, explain that one. Yeah, I know. Figure that out. If I owed you 10 grand and I said to you, "Listen, I'm going to give you 500 quid a month." Yeah. I'm just saying, for example, what would you say? I'd say thanks. I'd be like, "Yes, [ __ ]." What would you say?

>> Say thank you.

You bastard. I'd be like, "Yeah, about [ __ ] time. Let's make it happen." There's people out there that say they don't want me to make you bankrupt. Why would you do that? There's a, there's another, there's another game being played behind the scenes. But again, it is what it is. It's been very difficult. I, I feel incredibly sorry for the people who have have have trusted me and put their trust in me. The support from them now has been incredible. Yeah. So, the, there's other people out there that are in certain deals with me and they've backed me all the way. I've had two people who were on the landlord partnership who have said to me, "We don't want our money until you're back on your feet. Whatever it takes, a year, two years, three years, or five years. But we believe and trust in you." That's nice. And we're not talking pennies. No, no. That is nice. And they'd actually phone me and go, "If it takes you five years to get back on your feet to where you were, then you look after us in the future." Two people like who have really, really, really like that. We know you as a person.

>> Yeah. So, that, that must be nice for you to hear.

Yeah. And then

>> Yeah. And then you got the other 10 that are trying to kill you.

>> [laughter]

>> And then some people, like I said, social media is a world. If you, if you, if you were in my presence and you were around me outside of social media, you'll see how much respect I get from the property community. The real people. Social media is just a facade of what you see. But, um, it's, it's definitely been the hardest 13 months in business. Um, it's been a very difficult period and it's going to be a very difficult 18 months. But if anything, anybody can fix things, it's me. That's me. I'm that guy. I'm, I'm not here to let people down. My name is very important. It's been tarnished. It's been ripped to pieces and it has had massive effects on everything. But have you ever heard of anybody who's made it to the top who hasn't told a story like I've just told you? No. No. They've all been through it.

Is, is this quite the, the rebrand? Is that like

>> Yeah, it was kind of like, like I said, you know, when, when you build something so cool like the Property Circle and you created this community and it was an amazing, amazing journey. I feel like it's, um, it's tainted now. Um, my name is what it always was, Stephen Hamilton, and it will always be that. But, um, the rebrand was just fresh colors, Hamilton University. You know, I'm trying to, I'm trying to to give the best stuff that I can give whilst also not giving my soul, basically. Um, so, yeah, so a little bit of a rebrand. It's still me. Still the same education as in up-to-date, knowing exactly what's going on. But, yeah, I felt like the, the past 5 years of everything I built and stuff has just been tarnished and it's, it's, it's just a horrible thing. I'm not somebody who who wants to go online and really start slating and naming and shaming people, and it's crossed my mind a few times to go on there and set the record straight. I just don't want to be that person. I'll try to be that person. I was trying to be a bit nasty on social media at one stage. I think that was just a phase. I don't want to be that person. That's not my character. It doesn't add up, does it? It's not my character. In the long run, it pays off. People have always said to me, "The way you kept your cool, the way that you've you've held yourself, the way that you've continued to carry on working, the way that you've just done what you've done and addressed things when you need to address them." I've still got people out there. Like, I haven't done any earn and learns since April last year. I've turned down in excess of 20, 30, 40, 50 people offering me half a million plus. 'Cause I can't take money when I only, Mhm. [clears throat] Um, doesn't work like that. So, my, I've turned down everything. I had a guy literally a month after, um, all this came out saying, "I've got 600 grand estate. Um, where do you want me to transfer it to?" And I was like, "I'm not doing anything, mate." 'Cause he'd never seen anything. Mhm. Um, but, yeah. Yeah, it's upsetting. Yeah. It's upsetting.

Well, thanks for sharing that with with with me on this, to be honest, 'cause it was like you said, um, I've got a small channel and this really appreciate you.

>> No, you're such a nice guy and, and the way you reached out to me was was really nice as well. Thank you. And just, uh, I finished, uh, one, one thing I wanted to ask me personally, top three self-development books.

Um, I'm not great into books. Um, the, the one book that I do actually love is, um, 48 Laws of Power. It's dark. I've halfway through that, I think. It's dark and it can get you a little bit twisted. And if you do start implementing them into your business, just be careful that you don't start implementing it into life 'cause it is a very dark and dangerous book. Um, very interesting. Um, I've always, even before I did property, I read The Art of War. Mhm. Um, I've read a lot of, yeah, Art of War. Um, I read that before I did property. I think that's pretty cool book. A lot of it's common sense. Um, and then there's not, there's not, I'm not a book reader. No. I tried it. Just, I've actually said I'm, I'm [ __ ], I don't like reading. I like listening to audible. What I do? Yeah, podcasts. Yeah, podcasts for me. Even audiobooks get on my nerves a bit. There's a few people out there like, you know, if you go on social media and you say you read a book a day, you have an ice bath, you do this, you do that, you're going to become a millionaire. I've got an ice bath starter pack. Yeah, yeah. You're a millionaire for an ice bath. No, no, no. Cold feet. I, I don't know anybody who's a millionaire with an ice bath. But again, it looks really cool, doesn't it? You know, you get up, you meditate. Yeah. You know. When I get up, I've got 300 emails I need to respond to. I've got 40 WhatsApp messages to respond to. I've got 10 builders [ __ ] screaming at me. I've got five architects. I've got two children running around the house. I've got a car to pack to get a kid to nursery. Um, I ain't got time for an ice bath. That's, that's what I meant to say. You didn't get me there. Yeah, I think I think people have this misconception of what success is. Success is people who just get up and do their work. Yeah.

Can we, can we just finish on a quick quick fire before we go?

Crack on. All right. Quick fire. Let's go. Ferrari or Lamborghini? Lamborghini when you're trying to grow on social media, Ferrari when you are in the real world. What's the, what's the best car you've had? Best car I've ever had, Range Rover Autobiography. Range Rover, what's it? Autobiography. Oh, they, yeah, that the same? Is that like the very, is that the very? Is that the? Yeah, I've had quite a few of them. Best car in the world. Um, to be honest, this is [ __ ] weird. What's going on here? You ask all these questions. You know something? The weird questions might be the ones that the viewers want to see.

>> Yeah, true. True. And it's, and this is quite good, actually.

Most expensive thing you've bought that wasn't worth it? Ooh. Most expensive thing I've ever bought that wasn't worth it. Can I think about it? I'll give me a second. It's going to be some item of Louis Vuitton clothing. Yeah, like a jacket for like five or six or seven grand, which is absolutely pathetic. Um, and if you watch me now, all I wear is a black T-shirt, black ones, or a cream one, as you can see. But, yeah, it would have been a Louis Vuitton jacket. I think obviously I've never bought any anything in that range of stuff. If I had the money, maybe. But I've, as I've got older, brands ain't for me anymore. When you're younger, I would, it's like you, I like my bags. Like I, I've always had Louis Vuitton bags. But no, Louis Vuitton jacket. I think I paid five or six or seven grand for it, and I've worn it twice. That's the dumbest thing in the entire world.

Well, why would you want to [ __ ] wear it, wouldn't you?

It's stupid, dumb. But you get caught in the trap sometimes. Uh, if you, if you're not doing property, what would you be doing? Police officer. Would you? Yeah. I'll be unbelievable. I know everybody that's up to everything right now. Who's using the fraud, who's into scams, who's drug dealer. I know everything about everything, um, from the world. I can see through all the [ __ ]. Um, I'd be a police officer. I'll be like the best [ __ ] detective in this country.

Great. Well, well, I know.

Um, no, they're all my managers.

>> [laughter]

>> Got to do a different party.

Um, guilty pleasure? Chocolate. Mhm. I'm addicted to chocolate. I have chins. I'm just, I'm just addicted to it. I can't stop. That's my biggest, I [ __ ] I was that was my eating just like, yeah, just I'm obsessed with it. I'm absolutely obsessed with it.

Right mate. I was going to leave.

Okay. Quick five questions for you then.

No, no, no. Three five questions. Okay. So, you got two children? Yes. Which one do you love more? No, you don't.

>> [laughter]

>> Who is your favorite one?

I, I could say their name, yeah. Um, favorite car? Um, favorite car? Old or new? Can be interesting. For me, I'd, I want a Lambo.

Oh, you do?

Which one do you want? I, I don't [ __ ] know. Okay. 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I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, *I*

I had, um, like COOs and project managers and architects and builders, and, you know, we were doing 20, 30 projects at a time. Okay? All these people on social media are probably doing one flip. No, no. I, I, I, I'm a real property developer. Um, and it all just started crumbling down because I wasn't focusing my whole energy on what I'm good at. I was trying to be an educator, a mentor, a developer, a YouTuber, a podcaster, this and that, and I was trying to do everything. And to the outside world, it's amazing. "Oh my god, he's a he's superhuman." But you're only superhuman with the people behind you. As long as the people behind you've got you, you're good. People behind me had me, but they didn't have the experience I needed, and everything started to crumble. Everything was falling apart. My developments were going sideways. Um, bridging lenders were then charging 4% extra a month. Um, you know, projects were just overrun by a year, by 18 months, and then before you know it, all crumble. You get then called out on the internet.

>> Yeah. And then as you're keeping everything together, and making sure everything's good, and then that happened with the internet, well, then I just everything just started to fall apart. Um, and it's it's it was it was probably, I mean, you got to put it into context, okay? I lost my mom. Um, I've been through some really bad things in life. On a scale of 1 to 10, how horrific was it? It's a six, 'cause horrific is when people are dying of cancer and things like that. So, no, I can never say it was the worst thing that's ever happened in my life.

I was just about to ask that, to be honest. But in business, yeah, it's the worst thing that's ever happened in my entire life. It's a 10 in business, it's a six in life because no one died. Okay? Um, but to put it into context. Good perspectives. Yeah, 'cause you've got to have perspective. 'Cause if I came on here and said to you, "Oh my god, it's the worst thing that's ever happened in my life." It's full of [ __ ]. Yeah. As the worst thing that's happened in my life, my mom passed away or someone's ill with cancer, or my aunt is ill and stuff. So it's a six. In business, it's a 10.

>> Yeah, yeah. Um, and what happens is people don't understand. People get scared. "Oh my god, I gave Steve some money and I'm not getting it back. It must be fraud. Let's call the police." So people phone the police on me.

>> Did that happen?

No, no, no. No, I, I honestly don't know. 'Cause we can clearly discuss this. I have seen some stuff online. That's why I just I'm worried for that. But what people don't realize is, and this is this is the bit that makes me like, really upset. I'm still here a year and a month later, still working to make sure everybody gets paid back. But then you have the odd person who sticks the knife in, who then sends you 10 steps back, and you, you start thinking, "I owe you money and [clears throat] you're on the internet calling me all sorts of things." What do you think's going to happen from this? So, is is anyone owes me money? Is that a thing? Is that going to get paid back? Yeah, I'm still here working to make sure no one will ever lose to me. No. I'm a man. I'm a man that has to walk down the street with two children and a misses. The easiest thing for me to do was to declare myself bankrupt. Yeah. And then just disappear for 18 months. Then come back. Start again. And then when anybody calls me out, just go, "Oh, I limited company, limited protection. I've gone into bankruptcy and personally." No. So before I touch on the other part of that, I touch on, let me explain something to you. There was a, there was a company, and again, I don't know behind the scenes 'cause I can only go on what I am as me. They had 4 million pounds worth of investment. Very well-known guy and woman on social media. Similar to me. They're educators. That 4 million pounds worth of investments, they lost all the investors' money and they declared themselves bankrupt. And they released a statement 3 months ago on the internet saying, "Unfortunately, we are going under. I feel I'm really sorry to all my investors who have lost all their money. It's such a sad situation. I tried to keep it together, but I couldn't, and, you know, we've gone bankrupt." And then you know what he signed it out with at the end? Um, "This is the end of my property journey for now, but I will be back." So when I read this statement, I was kind of like, "Are you taking the [ __ ] piss, mate? You've just lost all everyone's money." And then, and then you've signed it off with, "Unfortunately, it's the end for now, but I'll be back." Yeah. And then, then I'm on the internet getting absolutely ripped to pieces because I'm probably the biggest name in the industry, and I'm getting ripped to pieces by going, "Yeah, we [ __ ] up. Yeah, but I'm going to stand up." But people are just wanting to tear me down. And it, it kills me because there's two sides to this. There's the one side of the people who trusted me who need their money back, and I didn't have it in time to give it them. Yeah, that must be tough. It's vile to have that on your shoulders as a man to know that there's people that was depending on each other, you know, take the family away, buy themselves a new car, do extensions on the houses, continue their property journey. They trusted a guy, me, and they're like, "He's let us down. Um, we don't know when it's all going to be resolved. I hate him." And all that. I get it. To go to sleep at night as a man, yeah, it's not nice. It's rough, okay? Knowing that I've caused that. That's that's so sad. And it plays on my mind every single day. Um, but I will resolve everything. But the other side of it as well is when people who don't know the situation are jumping on social media, putting their two pennies in. People who don't know one flip. "I knew he was a scammer. I knew them Ferraris weren't his and rented." 20 Ferraris all paid for. And that's not a that's not me bragging. That's me saying way before all this happened, I've I've had all this. The, the, the horrible part is when people jump on the bandwagon that don't even know what's going on. Yeah. That's the tough part. But the part that really upset me was when all this happened, my daughter was 2 weeks old. Um, first girl, second child. My Isabella is at home. The internet's blowing up, as you can imagine, in the property world, not in the real world. It's in the property world. In the real world, I'm nobody. Property world, I am a somebody. Um, to an extent. There's obviously million people bigger than me out there. But in my world, I'm I am who I am. And I'm seeing my Isabella in bed with my 14-day-old baby, and she's crying her eyes out because she's seen all this horrible stuff about me and all these negative, all these videos being made about me. It ruined like the first 3, 4 months of my baby, which is the bonding period.

>> Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, so, it was it was a double-edged sword in that side 'cause it really affected me, but then it was really affecting the people that trusted me, and it was making people lose, you know, like the trust in me, and it was it was disgusting. It's a horrible burden. And 99% of people wouldn't have come through it. No. That's the facts. And it's proven with how many people go bankrupt. Yeah. Um, me, I phoned everybody and I was like, "No, I will fix it. I don't have a time scale, but you've just got to let me get my [ __ ] sorted."

But you own all these houses? Yes. We own a lot, but it's not easy. You can't just sell a house and 'cause everything's 75/25. We had companies that went into liquidation. We had companies that was dissolved and we had to restore them. We had interest payments that was 4%. When you let a ball of snow roll down a hill,

>> [clears throat]

>> and you're not fully focused 'cause you're trying to firefight, that ball turns into this. And before you know it, you are underneath an avalanche that like you're drowning. Um, and that is exactly my life at the minute.

Is this, is this, so this all in a year then? Since April last year. April last year, isn't it? It's been, it's been hell. Yeah, I can imagine, mate. But it's also been hell for the people. It's been hell for the people who trusted me.

>> Yeah, 100%. You know, and that's that's what's hard for me. You don't want to lose any money as a cause.

No, no, it's disgusting.

>> If you've lost friends?

I've got, yeah, I, yeah, everybody. Just, not everybody? No, just, just been through it, honestly. Everybody? Yeah. Um, I had, I know I mean, every, yeah. Um, this is no joke. Um, has anyone stuck by you?

No. No. That, that, that must be sad.

Um, well, she's been amazing. Yeah. Like, she knew all of this before she even came on board. She's been incredible. Obviously, me and my Isabella are a team. Yeah. There ain't many people like us out there. We will, we are the strongest couple you will ever meet, and even this has tested us. Like, it's pushed us to our limits of like, "Oh my god." Um, but no, no, no, nobody, um, nobody's still buys.

>> That's sad, isn't it?

Well, I understand it.

>> It's, it's, it's, it's kind of, it's contact.

I understand it. It's kind of like, you know, people will people will support you when they can gain from you or or or, and when the going gets tough, you hear the story like, you know, if you can have one friend in a lifetime or two friends in a lifetime. And I understand people leaving, and I get it, like they don't want the stigma. They don't want to be attached to someone who's being called a fraud, someone who's being called a scammer, someone who's being called a con artist. Of course, nobody wants to attach themselves to that. But the, the worst part about it is they know me. Yeah. And that's

>> They don't know me 'cause nobody thought I'd still be here.

No. Not one single person thought I would still be here May this year. Nobody, because people have tried to sell newspaper stories. They've, I've had, I've had newspapers contact me saying like, "We've had all this information and we're going to print the story." The police obviously got involved and was like, "This is, this, we've been told it's a Ponzi scheme." I said, "No, this is a civil matter and everyone's going to get paid back." Um, so there's no, no, no, even no charges or anything. No charges, no nothing. The investigation is still ongoing. If they had anything to charge me with, I'd have, I'd have been charged by now. Everybody that has accused me of something has had money back. Yeah. So, one lady invested 50,000. She's had 25,000 pound back. Does that sound like someone who's going to scam someone? Uh, it's, well, no, I, I, I get, I get it from there. No one wants to lose that sort of money, do they? But, but the thing is, no one's losing money 'cause they're

>> Yeah, I don't agree with you. Yes, I, yeah.

But, um, it, it, it would be like, it's hard if I had 50,000 pounds. I would have been leaving it, to be honest. But I get, and I thought, credit if you, if you're saying you're going to pay everyone back. Yeah, I'm working my hardest. I'm out there every day. But they stick the knives in and they don't understand that to get companies out of, um, dissolvent, to get remortgages, to get bridging finances. We're not dealing with one or two properties. We're, we're with a lot of stuff and it's just mountains and mountains and mountains. And like the last, the last 13 months of my life have been in business the hardest time in my life. Um, the amount of times I've sat on the edge of my bed with my head in my hands like, just like, "Oh my god, like, how am I going to fix it?" Um, yeah, and then like watching every person leave me one by one. And the worst thing was before, before like, you know, like this happened, I'd done earn and learns and joint ventures in the hundreds. Yeah. And everybody'd been happy. Everyone'd been paid. No one came out and said, "Hang on a second. You know, I've got to be seeing past." No one.

Did it, did it get to, so you know, let's say before everything was going well, what, what would an earn and learn be?

>> Yeah, so basically somebody would put some a grand in or to whatever they want to put in. They'd get a return on the money between 6 and 12% depending on the projects and what's going on. They could learn on different sites. So they could learn about HMOs 'cause I have everything going on. I have HMOs. I have multi-blocks. I have single lets. I have bungalows. Um, and they'd go around for 12 months. They'd learn on the projects. They'd come with me. I'd use their money to do certain things or market and things like that. And then, yeah, if it was going great. And then I think the point of no return was was that day when I got attacked on social media. It went on for weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks. And then I think I don't know how anybody can ever say that it doesn't affect them. No, yeah. It affected me.

>> [clears throat]

>> But it affected me even more because I was watching my family get affected.

>> Yeah. And then you start thinking that everyone's judging you, every room you walk in. Uh, and then it had the biggest knock-on effect I've ever seen in my entire life. All of the award ceremonies, I mean, I, I was again

>> [snorts]

>> you don't know me. No. And this is important. So there's a fine line between cockiness and confidence. Okay? If you know me, you know I'm not a cocky person. I'm the nice nicest person I've met. I can be an [ __ ] if you are an [ __ ] to me, but I treat people how they treat me. Oh, yes. Um, but it was very difficult to find someone in this industry who was as good as me. Or is as good as me. And everybody wanted to be around me. And then as soon as you have this criticism, they jump ship. So like award ceremonies like started like pulling out. Um, stopped, wouldn't invite me to things. Educators stopped being around me. I didn't get invited to any of that, which I understand. People are protecting their brands.

But when people are protecting their brands that have got six followers, Yeah. it's full of [ __ ]. You're jumping on the bandwagon then.

Um, it was, it was, it was very difficult. And like I said, it, it, it's painful to me that knowing that I have people who trusted me are still waiting. And [clears throat] that's that's the burden as a man.

How come, how come you never spoke up till till now?

Um, I don't think I was ready. Mhm. I wanted people to see that I was still here. Mhm. And it's tough. It's a tough topic to speak about.

>> Yeah, good.

Because it's affected my life in more ways than you could ever imagine. Yeah. Um, just like it's probably affected the people who trusted me. You know what I'm saying? But when you put into context, like, you know, I've seen some educators go bankrupt owing, you know, 1,300 people money. Yeah. One went bankrupt the other day owing 640 people. Um, I think the biggest one I've seen in this country so far, which happened 18 months ago, was 13 and a half thousand people. Um, again, you'll know who they are, but it's not my job, I'm not to judge 'cause we don't know what happens behind the scenes. If the company's gone under and people have done certain things, that's that's a that's business, like, but it affects these people. In the grand scheme of things compared to all of this, is it that? Yeah, yeah. And, and I'm kind of like, you know, yeah, it's tough. Yeah, but if you're going to go to that and say you're going to fight every single one of them. Is it different? Fix everything.

>> Yeah, and they all know that.

Yeah, but some people don't believe you. Yeah. 'Cause actions speak louder than words. But financially, the last 13 months have been the most difficult. People are like, "But he still lives in a big house." And he's still doing sites and stuff. You don't know. Like, you have no idea. I've always lived in a big house. I've always, I'm not like, I've always had a Range Rover, a Lamborghini, a Bentley. I've always had a fleet. Like, if you watch my social media, I've always had a fleet. I don't have a fleet. I sold cars to pay people. Yeah. Um, I've always had the best watch collection you could ever imagine. I sold every single watch to to pay people back. Um, I've sold houses at losses to keep people. That's the right thing to do, isn't it? Course it is. Yeah, and I think that. How can I be on social media driving around in a Lamborghini when I owe you money? Yeah, yeah. It's disgusting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, it's absolutely disgusting. Um, but people don't see this. No, no, no. They don't see it. 'Cause if you, if you sold all your cars, then? All my? Yeah. The only car I have at the minute is a Range Rover. Yeah. That's on finance. Yeah, yeah. Just, yeah, just 'cause it's a, can't find it. It's not worth, I can't sell it 'cause it's not equity. It's a Range Rover. I have a V-Class. Mhm. Which again, family wagon, just get the kids around. Right. My, my kids will never go in it 'cause Isabella doesn't like. But, um, yeah, and, and people like, they'll go, "Oh, you're still flaunting." No. My Louis Vuitton collection, my, all the things that I've had them forever. I've always had trainers and I'm not out spending a grand on trainers. I owe people money. I'm fighting every day of my life to fix it. Um, but you always get the one. But the support has been good. Yeah. I will say since the turn of the year, I get the odd message here and there going, "You know what, Steve? Fair play to you now 'cause most people would have gone by now." Yeah. Um, and you're always going to have that stigma until it's all over. But when it's all over, I can stand proud and go, "I say, told you I'm not that guy." Um, but again, it's going to take time. I, I, I hope you do it. I really do. And then I'm going to it. But there are some people out there that are trying for it not to happen. There's people out there that are trying to force me to go bankrupt. They don't want their money. Oh, what? People that you owe money to? To? And they'd rather? Let me go bankrupt. Now, explain that one. Yeah, I know. Figure that out. If I owed you 10 grand and I said to you, "Listen, I'm going to give you 500 quid a month." Yeah. I'm just saying, for example, what would you say? I'd say thanks. I'd be like, "Yes, [ __ ]." What would you say?

>> Say thank you.

You bastard. I'd be like, "Yeah, about [ __ ] time. Let's make it happen." There's people out there that say they don't want me to make you bankrupt. Why would you do that? There's a, there's another, there's another game being played behind the scenes. But again, it is what it is. It's been very difficult. I, I feel incredibly sorry for the people who have have have trusted me and put their trust in me. The support from them now has been incredible. Yeah. So, the, there's other people out there that are in certain deals with me and they've backed me all the way. I've had two people who were on the landlord partnership who have said to me, "We don't want our money until you're back on your feet. Whatever it takes, a year, two years, three years, or five years. But we believe and trust in you." That's nice. And we're not talking pennies. No, no. That is nice. And they'd actually phone me and go, "If it takes you five years to get back on your feet to where you were, then you look after us in the future." Two people like who have really, really, really like that. We know you as a person.

>> Yeah. So, that, that must be nice for you to hear.

Yeah. And then

>> Yeah. And then you got the other 10 that are trying to kill you.

>> [laughter]

>> And then some people, like I said, social media is a world. If you, if you, if you were in my presence and you were around me outside of social media, you'll see how much respect I get from the property community. The real people. Social media is just a facade of what you see. But, um, it's, it's definitely been the hardest 13 months in business. Um, it's been a very difficult period and it's going to be a very difficult 18 months. But if anything, anybody can fix things, it's me. That's me. I'm that guy. I'm, I'm not here to let people down. My name is very important. It's been tarnished. It's been ripped to pieces and it has had massive effects on everything. But have you ever heard of anybody who's made it to the top who hasn't told a story like I've just told you? No. No. They've all been through it.

Is, is this quite the, the rebrand? Is that like

>> Yeah, it was kind of like, like I said, you know, when, when you build something so cool like the Property Circle and you created this community and it was an amazing, amazing journey. I feel like it's, um, it's tainted now. Um, my name is what it always was, Stephen Hamilton, and it will always be that. But, um, the rebrand was just fresh colors, Hamilton University. You know, I'm trying to, I'm trying to to give the best stuff that I can give whilst also not giving my soul, basically. Um, so, yeah, so a little bit of a rebrand. It's still me. Still the same education as in up-to-date, knowing exactly what's going on. But, yeah, I felt like the, the past 5 years of everything I built and stuff has just been tarnished and it's, it's, it's just a horrible thing. I'm not somebody who who wants to go online and really start slating and naming and shaming people, and it's crossed my mind a few times to go on there and set the record straight. I just don't want to be that person. I'll try to be that person. I was trying to be a bit nasty on social media at one stage. I think that was just a phase. I don't want to be that person. That's not my character. It doesn't add up, does it? It's not my character. In the long run, it pays off. People have always said to me, "The way you kept your cool, the way that you've you've held yourself, the way that you've continued to carry on working, the way that you've just done what you've done and addressed things when you need to address them." I've still got people out there. Like, I haven't done any earn and learns since April last year. I've turned down in excess of 20, 30, 40, 50 people offering me half a million plus. 'Cause I can't take money when I only, Mhm. [clears throat] Um, doesn't work like that. So, my, I've turned down everything. I had a guy literally a month after, um, all this came out saying, "I've got 600 grand estate. Um, where do you want me to transfer it to?" And I was like, "I'm not doing anything, mate." 'Cause he'd never seen anything. Mhm. Um, but, yeah. Yeah, it's upsetting. Yeah. It's upsetting.

Well, thanks for sharing that with with with me on this, to be honest, 'cause it was like you said, um, I've got a small channel and this really appreciate you.

>> No, you're such a nice guy and, and the way you reached out to me was was really nice as well. Thank you. And just, uh, I finished, uh, one, one thing I wanted to ask me personally, top three self-development books.

Um, I'm not great into books. Um, the, the one book that I do actually love is, um, 48 Laws of Power. It's dark. I've halfway through that, I think. It's dark and it can get you a little bit twisted. And if you do start implementing them into your business, just be careful that you don't start implementing it into life 'cause it is a very dark and dangerous book. Um, very interesting. Um, I've always, even before I did property, I read The Art of War. Mhm. Um, I've read a lot of, yeah, Art of War. Um, I read that before I did property. I think that's pretty cool book. A lot of it's common sense. Um, and then there's not, there's not, I'm not a book reader. No. I tried it. Just, I've actually said I'm, I'm [ __ ], I don't like reading. I like listening to audible. What I do? Yeah, podcasts. Yeah, podcasts for me. Even audiobooks get on my nerves a bit. There's a few people out there like, you know, if you go on social media and you say you read a book a day, you have an ice bath, you do this, you do that, you're going to become a millionaire. I've got an ice bath starter pack. Yeah, yeah. You're a millionaire for an ice bath. No, no, no. Cold feet. I, I don't know anybody who's a millionaire with an ice bath. But again, it looks really cool, doesn't it? You know, you get up, you meditate. Yeah. You know. When I get up, I've got 300 emails I need to respond to. I've got 40 WhatsApp messages to respond to. I've got 10 builders [ __ ] screaming at me. I've got five architects. I've got two children running around the house. I've got a car to pack to get a kid to nursery. Um, I ain't got time for an ice bath. That's, that's what I meant to say. You didn't get me there. Yeah, I think I think people have this misconception of what success is. Success is people who just get up and do their work. Yeah.

Can we, can we just finish on a quick quick fire before we go?

Crack on. All right. Quick fire. Let's go. Ferrari or Lamborghini? Lamborghini when you're trying to grow on social media, Ferrari when you are in the real world. What's the, what's the best car you've had? Best car I've ever had, Range Rover Autobiography. Range Rover, what's it? Autobiography. Oh, they, yeah, that the same? Is that like the very, is that the very? Is that the? Yeah, I've had quite a few of them. Best car in the world. Um, to be honest, this is [ __ ] weird. What's going on here? You ask all these questions. You know something? The weird questions might be the ones that the viewers want to see.

>> Yeah, true. True. And it's, and this is quite good, actually.

Most expensive thing you've bought that wasn't worth it? Ooh. Most expensive thing I've ever bought that wasn't worth it. Can I think about it? I'll give me a second. It's going to be some item of Louis Vuitton clothing. Yeah, like a jacket for like five or six or seven grand, which is absolutely pathetic. Um, and if you watch me now, all I wear is a black T-shirt, black ones, or a cream one, as you can see. But, yeah, it would have been a Louis Vuitton jacket. I think obviously I've never bought any anything in that range of stuff. If I had the money, maybe. But I've, as I've got older, brands ain't for me anymore. When you're younger, I would, it's like you, I like my bags. Like I, I've always had Louis Vuitton bags. But no, Louis Vuitton jacket. I think I paid five or six or seven grand for it, and I've worn it twice. That's the dumbest thing in the entire world.

Well, why would you want to [ __ ] wear it, wouldn't you?

It's stupid, dumb. But you get caught in the trap sometimes. Uh, if you, if you're not doing property, what would you be doing? Police officer. Would you? Yeah. I'll be unbelievable. I know everybody that's up to everything right now. Who's using the fraud, who's into scams, who's drug dealer. I know everything about everything, um, from the world. I can see through all the [ __ ]. Um, I'd be a police officer. I'll be like the best [ __ ] detective in this country.

Great. Well, well, I know.

Um, no, they're all my managers.

>> [laughter]

>> Got to do a different party.

Um, guilty pleasure? Chocolate. Mhm. I'm addicted to chocolate. I have chins. I'm just, I'm just addicted to it. I can't stop. That's my biggest, I [ __ ] I was that was my eating just like, yeah, just I'm obsessed with it. I'm absolutely obsessed with it.

Right mate. I was going to leave.

Okay. Quick five questions for you then.

No, no, no. Three five questions. Okay. So, you got two children? Yes. Which one do you love more? No, you don't.

>> [laughter]

>> Who is your favorite one?

I, I could say their name, yeah. Um, favorite car? Um, favorite car? Old or new? Can be interesting. For me, I'd, I want a Lambo.

Oh, you do?

Which one do you want? I, I don't [ __ ] know. Okay. I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I,