Transcription
This conversation starts calm, and then everything shifts. Let's break it down on choir media.
>> With a woman who has a private Instagram as if she has doctor.
>> Hello.
>> Hey. How are you?
>> I'm good. How are you?
>> Okay. How old are you?
>> 29.
>> 29. We're talking about I'm sorry. We're talking about dating standards and rules of engagement. Are you single or you married?
>> I am single.
>> Any kids by any chance?
>> Three.
>> All by the same father?
>> Yes.
>> Uh, are you guys still together?
>> We are not.
>> Okay. So, are you dating?
>> Um, on and off I am. Right now I'm not.
>> Right. What did you have on the topic?
>> So, you asked the last lady about like the first time that it should be like a touch or like like intimacy touch.
>> Breaking the touch barrier. How long, how long before first deep kiss and how long before sex?
>> Well, I'm more of a person who believes in like instant like connection, like an instant contact. So, like I feel as though if I've accepted a date from a guy, then like there has to be some type of physical connection there, 'cause otherwise I wouldn't have, you know, accepted the date.
>> Okay. As far as like the intimacy touching like...
>> So, breaking the touch barrier on the first date.
>> I mean, like you didn't go into specifics as far as like, we can hold...
>> Hand specific. I said touch barrier, putting your hand on the smaller bag.
>> Yeah, that can happen the first night. What if we go dancing or something? I'm just saying.
>> Okay, then kiss it.
>> If the date goes well, it's okay to kiss on the first night.
>> Okay. Sex.
>> Sex, I would say like 90 days because we're still getting to know each other, you know, and then on top of that, like I'm a firm believer like it's just it takes time to get to know somebody and like I want to know where your head is before I give you my body.
>> How many dates in a one week period are you talking about?
>> In a week? Um, I would say I would on the average like two, two and a half, 'cause the half may count for like maybe after a lunch date or something like that.
>> Okay. So, that's two and a half dates a week. That's five dates every two weeks. That's 10 dates a month. That's 30 dates. A man needs to take you on 30 dates before he has sex.
>> Yeah. Yeah, but I mean, the dates don't have to be like public dates. Like we can stay in the house and talk, you know, cook dinner.
>> Tuesday, Thursday, Tuesday, Thursday, and Sunday afternoon. Tuesday, Thursday, and Sunday afternoon. Tuesday, Thursday, Sunday afternoon. Tuesday, Thursday, Sunday afternoon. Times three. Then why...
>> Why wait the 90 days? Well, you said I'm just going on, I'm asking.
>> Oh, why? Or why?
>> Yeah, because Tuesday, Thursday, Sunday afternoon, that's two and a half dates and that's five dates every two weeks or it's 10 dates a month times three months, that's 30 dates, whether they're public or not. What's the, what's the uh, logic there?
>> The logic is I'm still trying to get to know you.
>> That is the thing. Before I give my... What do you need to know about me? What do you need to know about your date before you decide to have sex with him?
>> Well, I want to know a lot of stuff. I want to know long-term goals, short-term goals. I mean, I want to get to know like...
>> Are you, are you dating? Are you looking to get married?
>> I am.
>> Okay. Um, are you, when you start dating, are you planning on dating with the intentions to be married?
>> Um, yes. I have to say yes.
>> Are you a wife?
>> I am not at the current moment.
>> Um, now you got to understand where men are coming from. A woman has three children and you expect a man to wait 30 days.
>> Yeah, why not?
>> I'm just saying like, why not? I mean, my amount of children shouldn't have to do with when I'm going to open my legs.
>> Why do you think that?
>> I mean, because that's what we, I mean, at the end of the day, it, I shouldn't be judged on how many kids I have. Like, I still have...
>> Yes, you should.
>> Why should I?
>> Because it matters to us men.
>> Okay. But that's like vice versa. Like, what if, okay, man. You, okay? We were doing just fine. I've asked you questions directly because it matters to us men. You had three children by a man that you did not even marry. Okay.
>> Mhm.
>> Now you're talking about if I decide in the future I want to date towards marriage. That means you're not looking just for a husband. You're looking for a stepfather before a husband. He'd have to be a stepfather.
>> No, I'm not looking for a stepfather before.
>> Okay. You need to hold on and pump your brakes because he would be a stepfather and as, and and he'd have to be a stepfather before he's your husband because that job. And are you having any, do you want to have any additional kids?
>> I don't.
>> Okay. So, a man would come into your world and have to be a stepfather to three children and he would not even get his own child and he would need to wait 90 days and put in 30 days.
>> Fine, but I got one question.
>> Why is, why are you, why are you so expensive?
>> I'm expensive because I have morals and values. Like I'm just not out here about to be dating or giving myself away to every Tom, Dick, and Harry. Like, that is not me. So...
>> Ma'am, do you realize that, so, do you think your time frame of, hey, we can break the touch barrier first date, first date goes well, we can kiss, but wait before we get to have sex, it's going to take 90 days and 30 days? Do you think that is average, below average, or a high level of female no requirement?
>> I would say it's probably average.
>> You think the average woman is waiting 90 days and 30 days?
>> It's probably less dates than that, but if they're not waiting 90 days, I just don't know. They just...
>> We're in a hookup economy. We're in a, we're in a Netflix and chill economy.
>> And I got to go back to it. Ma'am, why men don't understand why women like yourself don't understand that your children make you less valuable?
>> So, can I ask you a question?
>> Sure.
>> Do you have children?
>> Doesn't matter.
>> No, I'm really, like I really...
>> It doesn't matter. A woman having children because it doesn't matter. We're talking about you. Women with children are less valuable on the sex marketplace.
>> It doesn't, the mouth. It's a double standard. It's not the same for men.
>> Why isn't it though?
>> Because you're not supposed to be out here making babies out of wedlock. You're supposed to be with your child's father because women pay a higher price for having children. The same reason why nature tells you you have between so long and so long before nature shuts off your ability to have children, not us. It's different for us. And my question is, why do you women argue with biology?
>> I mean, I'm not arguing with biology. It's just the simple fact that you were like, "Oh, um, you have three children, so like my value is just like..."
>> Lower, but it's just like...
>> Men. Do you think before you get, before you say that, I'll let you speak. Do you think what I'm saying...
>> Is what the average man thinks? You having children out of wedlock, one, two, three, makes your value lower than a woman, than the childless version of yourself?
>> No. I mean, I've heard that a time or two in my life.
>> Okay. Are, do you think your sexual marketplace value with three children...
>> [clears throat]
>> ...is the same as your sexual marketplace value with no children?
>> No.
>> Is it higher or lower with children?
>> I mean, I would say it's lower.
>> Okay. So, why are we having this conversation if you understand that?
>> I, because I want to know as far like why is it such a double standard? Because...
>> Because we don't want to raise nobody else's kids.
>> But men come into a situation where they approach a woman and they have children from here to California.
>> The same.
>> Why isn't it the same though? Like they have to take. Okay, you ask because it is. Let me tell you why. Take it to the animal kingdom. When males of us of the, of, take over new females, what do they do? They kill all the other cubs. The only ones that live are the females. A man's coming into your life. He'd have to be, he'd have to come in there and pay the mortgage. Okay, let's say I was going to marry you, right? Let's just say I'm going to marry you. Let's say our rent is $3,000. Uh, would you expect me to pay all the rent, all the mortgage, or half the mortgage?
>> If our rent was $3,000?
>> Mhm.
>> I would expect for you to pay. See, I was raised different, but I would expect for you to pay as a man taking the lead. All of it.
>> Mhm. Taking a lead. Meaning what?
>> So, a man taking a lead and guess what? I should really be paying...
>> $600.
>> Oh, why?
>> Why?
>> Because you live there.
>> You're absolutely right.
>> Hold on. See, you got to listen. You want to know?
>> Because you come with you and three people. I come with me. 3,000 divided by five is $600. I got $600 worth of that living space. I ain't living in all those rooms. And see, that's the difference. That's the difference. And I don't even get a kid. See, that means I'm paying to raise somebody else's children. And let's just say in my scenario, you decided to give me one child. And then I come to the table with food, a piece of pizza that has 18 slices and there are four children and two adults. That's six people. Uh, do you expect every person to eat equally? Each person get three slices?
>> Yeah, that'll feel.
>> Uhhuh. And that's [ __ ] because my kids should eat my fruit. Your children need to eat out of your pal, out of out of your portion.
>> So, yeah, that's right.
>> Oh, listen. This is how men think. I should bring food for you, me, and my child. So that means I get six slices, my kid gets six slices, you get six slices. And if you want your three children from another man to eat, you need to take your six slices and divide it with them. We'll let that happen. And that's the problem because that's how men think. You want men to come in and provide all this because you're the head of house and you're this and y'all do this stuff when y'all are living like rebels having babies out of wedlock, not doing anything traditional and then at the later point start talking this traditional stuff. What a man supposed to do? Well, a woman is supposed to be a wife before she is a mother and she's supposed to stay. If you don't have that first, you can't say what a man's supposed to do. Thoughts?
>> I just think it's like a double standard. Like I said, like I just feel like men are out here dating as well and they have multiple children. And I understand you saying it's not the same. So, first off, not, not all men. First off, 54% of black men are single and childless. So, not all men. Most men don't have any kids. 30% of black men are married. So, the men who are out here with multiple children are roughly about 16 to 20% of men, but that just happens to be the men that y'all make babies with. Or that just happened to be the men who are out here looking for a woman that they think is going to help them out at the end of the day.
>> Whatever the men are, but the point of the matter, it doesn't matter. If you decide to date a man with kids,
>> That's on you because 54% are single and childless. See, here's the better question. Why didn't you get married before you decided to have kids? Me personally...
>> The question was never asked. But...
>> Why then, why would you give a man the, the, the greatest blessing a woman can give a man without him even having to make you his wife and give you his last name? You cannot ask a man to come along after you've done that and pay a higher price. He's going to pay less or nothing. Not a man of value. The only man that will come along and do that is a man of lesser value. Because a man of higher value has options because he'd be looking for the childless version of you at best. Okay.
>> The double standard. You ladies know this exists and this whole thing about, and I want to go back to the point to where you said as the man, you would expect me to pay all of it and you...
>> But I mean, and then as, as your wife, I would come and say like, hey, like let me help as well. Like, where did we fall short at?
>> As my wife, you're coming in with three whole people. Okay.
>> Listen, listen. As my, as my wife, you would have to come in overperforming. I got to bring in my part. You got to bring in your part. And for, and for all them kids. So, you better be getting it from the baby daddy because I'm not going to pay for all of them. And I don't even get a kid. So, I'm going to take care of this right here. Because, man, do you not understand how you're basically shifting the responsibility of a, of your baby daddy onto a man who you don't have kids with just because he would happen to have the title of husband?
>> Well, I mean, over time that, like when that goes back to dating, like over time those relationships will have to like develop as far as like, okay, we're dating, this is serious, you know, like there has to be a conversation with my future husband and my kid's father. There would have to be a conversation as far as like boundaries, what he should, what you know, a man, a man-to-man conversation. Like, hey, I know these are your children. Like, however, I would like to marry her and...
>> So, in other words, I got to go to another man to ask him to be a man in my own house?
>> No, that's not what I'm saying.
>> What, what boundaries?
>> You use financial boundaries.
>> Okay. Okay. Financial boundaries. I don't need. Okay, man. Hold on. I don't need to have any conversation with that man about boundaries in my house.
>> You absolutely right. However, I do still believe that a conversation should be had about like, you know, like this is my wife. I'm going to take care of our household. However, like these are still your children. So, I don't expect for you to lack in any responsibility.
>> What do you mean?
>> They are your children. The, about as far as the children go.
>> So, give me an example. I don't know what that means.
>> So, like...
>> That means he can make rules in my house?
>> No, I'm not saying that at all. What I'm saying is when it comes, if, if me and my future husband, who I did not bear children with, um, you know, decides to marry me and you know, we do this whole thing, then I feel as though the conversation needs to happen between my h, my future husband and my kids.
>> What's the conversation though between the men? The conversation should be, I, future husband should say, I know that I am marrying into this, you know, this situation that you guys have going on. However, like I don't expect for you to lack just because you keep saying the same thing. It's not any more clear. What does lack mean? What does that mean?
>> Like, I don't expect for you to fall short on taking care of your responsibility.
>> Fall short mean what?
>> It could be like, I said, financially. It could be as far like pickups and stuff like that.
>> Hold on. Hold on. Hold on, man. Don't get upset that you're not making it clear. Fall short. You mean the child support he's paying?
>> It could be that. Yes.
>> Then what else?
>> It could be something as simple as like weekend visitations or something like that.
>> By the court?
>> Huh?
>> That's set by the court.
>> I know. But would you want, would I, I mean, I wouldn't want my future husband to be like, "Okay, you know, now that I'm your husband and these are my stepchildren, they can no longer see their father." Like...
>> It's a court order.
>> I understand that. But what...
>> That ain't how men. That's not how men. There's a court order. You pay in child support, his visitation. Take your kids by.
>> [laughter]
>> Yeah. But I still believe as though it's out of respect though. Like...
>> But out of respect, what? That, see, that's the kids. And this is, and this is why y'all need to marry y'all's children's father because you want two men to come to an agreement on how to be men because you could not sit your hot ass down and marry somebody and be a wife. I'm supposed to have to talk to this man about how I'm going to be a man in my own house? No.
>> No.
>> [ __ ] no. That's not what I'm trying.
>> The kids are in the house. Can I, if, if I'm your husband, can I discipline the children like they're my home since I got to pay for them?
>> Yes.
>> I can whoop their ass?
>> Yes.
>> Do I need to get your permission?
>> No.
>> Do I need to get his permission?
>> Do I need to get his permission?
>> No.
>> Then what else? What else do they talk about? Because the problems, the problems don't tend to be between men. The problem tends to be between the woman being in the middle. See, when men tend to talk, we tend to work it out because as long as you take care of your kids, 'cause he ain't trying to, first off, anybody stepping into this would be, no offense, man, they're not getting a kid in the matter. So, if they're stepping into this and they're paying more than 20%, they're getting screwed. You should have the financial, those children that you chose to make should be self-sustaining by the man you chose to make them with. The man you choose to get with, 'cause he's getting no kids at best, have to pay 20% of every, 20% of the lights, mortgage, gas, utilities, groceries, whatever, whatever. And if that's not, y'all don't seem to understand that men are, are not raising nobody else's kids. And this is in black America, particularly. Black women have gotten to the point to where you guys almost expect black men to just be stepdaddies. And when we tell you to know, y'all like, "What? What? All our kids are out of wedlock. What? We didn't say we want this [ __ ]"
>> [laughter]
>> I mean, what's the next highest out of wedlock group? Other women know to marry their child's, their children's father. The next lowest married group is white women at 54%. They're twice as married as you guys. And you got all these kids and going to say, "Well, the man didn't ask." Do you make room for the possibility, ma'am, that you're going to die unmarried?
>> I have made, like, I've thought about it a time or two.
>> Okay.
>> [clears throat]
>> Well, that's, that's, that's far more likely, especially with today. Men are not signing up to be stepfathers because I'm going to ask you, what is the advantage for a childless man to come in to be a stepfather in a situation like yours or just in general? What's the advantage to the man?
>> Well, you know, some men like, some men do want kids, but maybe...
>> Then they want their own children.
>> Right. But what if they can't have them?
>> Uh, most men want their own children. So, we're going to go with the case. That's just like the saying, overweight women got thyroid. Stick to the norm.
>> [laughter]
>> What's the advantage for a man to, to walk into your ready, your family with another man? What's the advantage to him?
>> [sighs and gasps]
>> See, that side, gentlemen, that side was, that sigh of, there ain't one. And they don't want to say it because they love their kids. I get it. But there is no advantage. Matter of fact, stepfathers are looked at as suckers today. You know why?
>> You think so?
>> Yeah. Because that's the way women have made it. When I was coming up, stepfathers were at least respected in the community. Today, stepfathers looked at as suckers. And it's not because men have changed. It's because of the way women look at men and treat men have changed.
>> I looked at it that way.
>> I get...
>> Okay. What's the advantage in, what is the advantage of being a stepfather? No, I say, what's the advantage? You do, you think stepfathers are respected today in the black community?
>> Yeah. I don't think they're being looked at as no suckers though. Like, I mean, no.
>> Yeah. Yes. I'm going to stand strong and firm on.
>> You can stand strong and firm on that. Then I die. Then I want you to go ask 100 black men who were stepfathers and then get you to, and get their answers. And I'm going to tell you as a black man who was one, I'm tell you it's not. It's a thankless job because the child knows that you have no real power. The woman knows that those kids are hers and at any time she can choose to change things up. Men are just acknowledging.
>> But that's why conversation. That's exactly going me going back to the point like a conversation needs to be had.
>> No, the convers, the conversation needs to be had. Yeah. You go, you here's the conversation. You go marry, you go complete the family you started. That's the conversations that need to be had in the black community. You go get back with the, your man you made these babies with and y'all gone off and get out of here. Let the single people get together. That's the conversation we need to have in the black community. Finish the family you started.
>> I get that too. That is a real, like, conversation.
>> There's not. See, that's the thing. That's not. There's not a tool. That's the only way. Because here's the next part. Here's the punch line. Go in my scenario where if you don't find a man who wants to marry you, are you making three times the amount uh, a man makes? Because you got three kids. See, normally you need to make at least what you, you need to have what a woman is making, what a man is making. But with three kids, you need to make three times that. Are you making over $110,000 a year?
>> Not that.
>> Okay. How much, at age, at age 65 when you hit retirement age, how much cash will you need to live between 65 and 85?
>> How much cash would I need?
>> How much money we need to survive for 20 years? 65 to 85. What do you think this ballpark?
>> I don't honestly know.
>> This ballpark, 20 years. What do you think?
>> Probably around like maybe like 75k. I'm just playing. I don't know.
>> 75,000.
>> Yeah, about that.
>> Okay. 75,000 for 20 years is $3,000, less than $4,000 a year. That's $400 a month.
>> Oh, no.
>> Yeah. How much you going to need to live for 20 years?
>> I'm not sure. You give me your ballpark.
>> Oh, well, no, man. This is your life.
>> [laughter]
>> This your life. This is your life.
>> Um, all right. We can take it up to like 400K.
>> Ma'am, you're going to need about 1.9 million.
>> Not millions.
>> Elderly care costs. Ma'am, you got to pay mortgage. You got to pay utilities. You got to pay healthcare. You got to pay food. Life costs, elder care costs. It is gets expensive to age. And that's my point. So, as a woman, you're not even thinking about how much money it's going to cost when you can no longer work, when you physically can't work anymore. So, it's like, well, uh, uh, how many $75,000? No, millions. You're going, and who's going to pay that? You didn't, you didn't work with a man to share the resources, to share the load, to invest, to get life insurance, and all that stuff. You choosing to be a single woman with three children. That means you got to be choosing to make $110 plus thousand a year and then saving that just to break even. So tell me how not getting married is an option. That's why I'm, this is, I guess I'm trying to get a lot of women understand your life is a ticking time bomb.
>> Mhm.
>> Uh, this is what happen. You make all them babies and don't get married. Is this country set up for single people to retire by on their own?
>> It's definitely not.
>> Well, then how do y'all think y'all going to do it?
>> I just don't want to think about it. I just don't want to think about it.
>> I mean, it is something to think about.
>> Why don't you go back to your child's father and y'all just marry each other? Y'all started a family.
>> It can't just happen like that.
>> Well, then if you can't get...
>> There has to be, if, if, if that was an option for me, there would have to be a lot of counseling.
>> Ma'am, I don't care what it would take. That's family. Listen, listen, listen. This may sound cold, but ma'am, you got three kids. One out of four black women will marry in their lifetime, and you got three kids. So your chance is probably around about less than 10% easy. Less than 10%. You don't want to have no more kids. I'm going say around about 5 to 7%.
>> This is what, this is what you made it, man. Counseling. I don't care. Counseling. You live in different parts of the house. Y'all better. He's paying rent. You paying rent. Y'all better figure this out 'cause you got a whole lot of kids. I mean, that's just real talk, man. That's real talk. And this is the, and this is, and see, it's sad that you got to have one man keep telling women this because where's your mother...
>> Around the corner?
>> [laughter]
>> Is she married?
>> She is.
>> To your father?
>> No, my father has passed away.
>> What is your mother? Is your mother encouraging you to get married?
>> Um...
>> Nope.
>> Does your mother? Were you raised to be a wife?
>> Nope.
>> You don't know that?
>> Oh, yeah. I do. Because, ma'am, I do know. I do know because all I have to do is look at your situation. You're raised to be a wife, you wouldn't have three children out. That's no offense, man. That's any woman. Any woman that's raised to be a wife tends to get married because women who are raised to be wives are in high demand. We don't have enough wives for the husbands today. We got plenty of women who want to get married, but we don't have enough wives. Wives are in high demand.
>> [applause]
>> They get taken like this. Wives don't marry and the wives don't have babies at a wedding lot. Wives don't do 10-year relationships, three-year, five-year, 10, seven-year relationships without wedding rings. They don't do none of that. Wives ain't on Instagram with their ass all out and different color weaves and wives ain't doing none of that [ __ ]. Wives they got tattoos and fake floppy. Wives don't have none of that. Wives have none of that. Every time you see a woman, you can look, you can, men know when they're looking at a wife. Either white or it's everything else. It's the way men come down to it. So, good conversation though, man. But, uh, you may, and your, you and your man, y'all got, y'all got a whole posi.
>> Not a posi.
>> We got a whole posi. Take it easy. Bye. I hear the frustration in that take, but I'm going to respond without just piling on women with kids. First, a lot of men do prefer women without kids. That's a preference, not a crime. Fewer complications, fewer emotional layers, fewer scheduling and authority dynamics, that's practical. But calling it crazy baggage like every single mother is a walking disaster, that's overgeneralizing. Some situations are chaotic. Some are actually stable and well-managed. The body as an item men are dying to buy idea. That's more about perceived leverage in dating. Social media absolutely inflates attention. A woman can get 500 DMs and assume that equals commitment level demand. But attention is not commitment. Desire is not long-term investment. That disconnect happens on both sides.