Porn Addiction in the Hare Krishna World: Time to Break the Silence | feat. Nakula Das | Ep. 186

[Music] The late morning program with Nam Ras. [Music]

Hare Krishna everyone. You're listening to the Nam Ras podcast, the number one Hare Krishna podcast in the world. I'm super honored to have uh Nula Do on today. Nula, Hare Krishna. Hare Krishna.

So Nula is a, um, I mean, I'll let him say what he does, but people already know him because you already came on the podcast. Was it like four years ago or so, roughly? Three or four years ago? Yeah, yeah, roughly three or four years ago. Uh, we talked about semen retention, which is a very interesting topic. But today, I want to talk about, and, and Nula Do actually reached out. We, we should talk about pornography because this is a really prevalent epidemic in our community, uh, in our society at large, but also in our devotee community as well. I think that devotees shouldn't be naive about this, that everyone is struggling with this, with a pornography addiction, or, uh, you could say, even the exposure of that to, to, you know, children, teenagers, everyone in our over-sexualized society of social media and all that stuff. Everything points there, actually.

And so I wanted to have a conversation about that. I actually said the word, but I'll say "corn" from now on, so, so YouTube doesn't, you know, uh, flag me for anything. I think Nula, there's a whole group of people and a whole movement online against "corn," actually. And I know you're part of that too, like you're a big part of that. And so for people who don't know this, this like people who are totally against "corn" and "corn" addiction and all that stuff. So I think it's really important that we as devotees talk about it. Also, because, I mean, I know for a fact that, uh, some senior devotees in our movement have admitted to, uh, having that kind of, uh, proclivity to watch that. And, uh, it's, it's about time that we brought it out to the open and not, you know, feel shameful about it. But actually, when you drag the problem into the light, that's how we can start fixing things, right? And, um, what was the other thing I wanted to start with is that, and also, yeah, how to deal with it. And I know you deal really closely with people, uh, in in dealing with that kind of addiction. And, um, and we can even discuss what does it mean to be addicted? Like, we had that conversation yesterday. Do I even know if I'm addicted to "corn"? Like, I don't even know. So, um, we can even talk about that as well. So, uh, that's my intro. And, and let's talk about, would you have anything to say before I get into the rest of it?

No, no, no. First of all, I'm just laughing a bit 'cause of the "corn" thing, 'cause we were talking before, like before we came live here, is like, like people are going to be like, "What's wrong with corn? Like, should I not eat corn?" You know? And, uh, and the other thing is like, I call, I call "corn" the, uh, uh, what is it? The, uh, I was like, "Oh, it's the elephant in the temple." And I ain't talking about Ganesha. It's like, it's kind of like, you know, like, uh, like, you know, it's like, you know, you go to the temple or, you know, you go to Sunday feast or whatever, and you're like, you come home and then you're like, "Oh my gosh," right? And, and a lot of guys, you know what I'm talking about, right? Um, and I do say guys more than women, even though statistically, there is actually a rise of even women watching now. I'm not necessarily talking about the devotee community, but just overall in the general population, uh, we actually see a rise in women, uh, also now indulging more and more in in "corn." And, um, I, I can't hold, like, a straight face, be like, you know, they're, you know, they're eating lots of corn. It's not good. And yeah, so, um, yeah, you know, basically viewing adult content and, and how it's, how it's affecting and skewing our, you know, our mindsets, our perceptions on intimacy, on love making, on sexuality. And especially as devotees, how does that block us from actually increasing in our Krishna consciousness and getting closer to God, which is the ultimate goal?

Yes, yes. Awesome. So I just put in ChatGPT, "Can you give me some statistics about corn?" And maybe I'll go first with, really briefly. And I know you have some stuff too. So, over 40% of internet users access "corn" monthly. Approximately 70% of men and 30% of women report viewing "corn" at least once a month. At the age of first exposure, 11 to 13 years old.

Yeah, I would say that's accurate based upon the guys that I work with. One of the general questions I ask, uh, the guys that come through our training is, um, so I'm like, "How, so how long? What's your average use on a weekly basis?" So first I get what's their average use, and then I ask them, "How old are you?" You know? So let's say they're like, "I'm 30 or 40." Okay, great. And when did you start? And I would say at this point, you know, anywhere from 10, 11, 12 seems to be across the board average from when people are starting to watch. And that's of course because we have cell phones these days. And, you know, the older generations, they didn't have that. They weren't, you know, you had to go to like, you know, you have to put your hood on and go to like some back room and like Tower Records, the bathroom.

Yeah, totally. And be like, "When no one's watching, hey, go distract, go distract the person." And then you flip open, you saw like boobs, and you're like, "Put it back," you know, that type of thing, right? But yeah, that's funny that you say that. It says, "Smartphones account for over 70% of 'corn' content consumption." Wow. Yeah, that I could, I could see that.

There was somebody, uh, just in in my province in Canada, where I live, someone sent me a message. A teacher was fired because they were in class, uh, watching "corn." So they, the class is going on, the teacher is watching "corn," and a student came behind them and filmed them watching "corn," and then of course, you know, people found out and, and that, uh, that got, you know, obviously that person got in trouble. And I thought, man, you couldn't even wait till you got home, bro? Like, come on, right? You know, it's like, but that's actually, it shows, you know, that's one case of many, many, many cases that shows how much it's a problem where, like, you really couldn't wait till you got home. You know, it's like you were just so like mindless, I would imagine, just being mindless about it. Yes. And, and just watching. And of course, it can be very secretive too, on your phone, right? You know, your phone is kind of an intimate place, right? It's like, you know, "No one knows what I'm doing on my phone," right? It's just you and your phone. And so the ability to go into really dark places and, and almost have this secretiveness about it is there. And that's one of the work that we're doing, and one of the, I would say, overall advocacy parts of of what we do, is just advocate for it to be in the open. You know, like talk about it openly. Like, I'm so open about sexuality and everything. The reason I'm like that and I like to be light about it and just like, you know, is because it breaks the taboo. It's like, "Well, if Nula can go on and talk about how he jerks off and he's done all this craziness, why why can't I?" I'm not saying you have to do what I do or anybody has to do what I do necessarily, but, but it's purposely done that way to break the taboo and to get people talking. Because again, if there is, and now, you know, especially the devotee community, so I work, I mean, we are officially Nula's training. Like when we first did the, when I first was on the show, it was, I was the semen retention army and stuff, right? And that's how, how we kind of came out. We've, let's say, we've evolved a lot. It's been four years, and we've literally trained thousands of men now. We work with men. So officially, we're Nula's training grounds, and we're an interfaith men's ministry, specifically helping men master their sexual energy. And so a large portion of that is helping men with pornography. And then there's, there's upscales to what mastery of sexual energy, all the way leading up to men to lead to eventually wanting to be in the renounced place later in life, right? Um, but the, the idea is that unless we talk, talk about it openly, it stays the elephant in the room. And when it's secretive, there is even more, let's say, pull or energy that it's given. Like when we have secrets, when we do something in secret, especially if we have a lot of shame around it, it drags us down vibrationally or energetically, emotionally more. And so one of the things, you know, that our students, you know, they love about is that like, "Man, I can come here and just be like, open." And they're like, "I can come here." I'm like, "No, you can't. Not here, boy." Right? But it's like, it's like we should just talk about it. Like, "Hey, you've watched porn." "So have I." "There, it's out the room." I remember I did a live talk to a bunch of business people, right? And it was on the mysteries of sex transmutation, right? And so I'm so, I just started the talk off with, "Hello everyone, I have watched pornography." And statistically, so have all of you. And then the people started laughing, right? And I'm like, "Okay, good. We good. We good. We good. Every, no one's freaking out. All right. Now let's talk about it because statistically, I don't know individually, but statistically, we've all done it. So let's just now talk about it so we can have a mature and educated conversation, and that we can really get to, like, uh, uh, is this a good thing or a bad thing, or why is this detrimental, or why is this should be addressed?"

That's so good. Along the same lines, nearly 93% of boys and 62% of girls have seen "corn" before turning 18.

Yeah, there was, so if someone is saying like, "Oh, no, my kid doesn't do it," or "I never done it," or "No, no, listen, hold on a second." This statistic says otherwise. 93% of boys, 62% of girls. Yeah.

There was, there was, uh, two stories that come to mind. One is, there was a study, I believe it was the University of Montreal. This was back in maybe early 2000s, I can't remember exactly. Someone could probably verify this, but they tried to do a study of, you know, the effects of "corn" on the brain, right? And, uh, to have a, to have a scientific study, you need a control group. Well, they couldn't do the study because there was no control group.

Oh my gosh. That's, they like, yeah, they're like, "We can't do the study because we don't have a brain that hasn't watched it."

Wow. So we don't, we can't really legitimately say, "Here's a brain who's never seen it, so that's what the brain looks like who's never seen 'cornography'." "Cornography," right? And here's a brain that is. So they're like, "We just couldn't do the study." And then another, another story that comes to mind is a woman reached out to me. She, she was just kind of like thanking me for the work that we're doing. And she said, "You know, I got to be honest, I was so naive. I was like, 'Not my son. He's a good boy. He's a Christian woman. He's a good boy. Good Christian boy.'"

Yeah. And she said, one day she goes on the computer to help something, looks to the browser history.

Oh man. And was just mortified by what she saw, right? So she's like, "Now she, because she reached out to to actually ask me like, 'How do I address this? Like, how do I even like sit down and have this conversation?'" Right? So I gave her a little bit of coaching and help to be like, "Here's how you facilitate a healthy conversation around it." Right? But yeah, the, the, the, the naivete is, uh, is a huge part of the overall problem, yeah. Right? And especially in like hardcore, let's say, very conservative religious groups. Yeah. It's, it's become. I have guys that come on to me and they're so scared. Like they're like, "You can see they're like looking around. They're like, 'Okay, I'm alone. I can talk about this.'" And I'm like, "Okay, cool. What's up?" And they're like, "I've been masturbating." And I'm like, "Yeah, yeah, me too, bro. How's..." And it's like, but you could see they're so scared. "No, you're not going to tell anyone, right? Like, please don't tell anyone. I'm an, I'm an ashram leader. Men's the ashram leader. I'm devotees."

Devotees? Oh gosh. Devotees. Oh, yeah. I've had in non-secular, but devotees specifically, yes. Out of all the groups I've worked with, and I, I work with anybody. I don't care. I work with atheists, interfaith, but human. I don't care if you're atheist, you shouldn't watch porn, right? Right. "Corn," sorry, right? Right, right, right. You shouldn't do it, right? So I'll work with anybody who's interested in improving themselves. Yeah. Uh, but generally, no atheists are coming to me because there's, here's another thing too, and this is why I'm also reaching out to all faith groups, because this is something we actually all agree on. Oh, yeah. All faith groups actually agree on. Yeah. This is bad. And the lowering of consciousness and the illicit, uh, sexual principle, hand in hand. So whether you're Jewish, you're Christian, uh, you're Hindu, you're, what, whatever it is, actually, they, we all agree on that point. Yeah. And so I find this to be a very unifying conversation amongst faiths, right? And so I'm like, I'm working with pastors, I'm working with priests, right? I'm having conversations with rabbis, with imams, and like, it's like, "Really open to, oh, we need this. We need this. We need this now." What I found though, out of all groups, the Hare Krishnas, I'm just going to say what my perception is, right? Totally. Yeah. Is we're the slowest on this. Like, we are so taboo around sex, yeah. And I think that's, I think not everyone, I'm paint-brushing, but it is causing an unhealthy relationship with sex, and it's causing a lot of guilt and shame and misunderstanding and all. And like, "Oh my gosh, I can't admit that I've got this issue." And because I can't admit I've got this issue, I'm just trying to go at it by myself. And that's not working. Yeah. It's just not working.

I remember you made that point that Christians are so light years ahead, like a Christian group is so light years ahead of Hare Krishna in their progression of like dealing with this issue and talking about it openly and having support groups and things like that, while, you know, a big shout out to, you know, Jagannath Puri and yourself for kind of like breaking open this this topic in the Hare Krishna community. I think that's so fantastic that you guys did that, like, you know, years ago, like when they were doing that Bhakti podcast and when you were on, you know, and so, yeah, like, why are we so behind? Why is it so taboo?

Well, I think, I think that, you know, kind of our, and, you know, uh, uh, I think that our philosophy is like, "Don't stoke the fire," right? Right. Which there's, I'm not saying that that's, that's false, right? Um, but what I am saying is the fire is already stoked, right? It's raging. It's, it's like Burning Man. Like, this is a raging fire. So, so the idea of not stoking the fire, um, I think context doesn't make sense for our age of where we're living, where, you know, like I was driving around New Jersey today, just checking out, you know, and it's just like, it's in the billboards, right? It's in the, it's just like, even on the subtleties, right? So it may not be hardcore "corn," but it's a, it's a half-naked woman who's selling the perfume, or there's some model, you know, you know, type of thing. I went on Facebook too, and Facebook generally has been pretty tame as far as my feed and everything, but then all of a sudden, there's like, kind of like, um, you know, one of those like, kind of Japanese girls dressed up like an anime character, you know, very provocative, right? It's, it's like, unfollow, right? Like, not, what do you call it, when you click it, right? Like to exit or whatever, right? And it's like, "Whoa, like where, where did that come from?" Right? Because my algorithms are clean, right? But still, it's there. It's there. It's there, right? Maybe I looked at something, maybe I browsed over something, and there's like, "Oh, boom." So the, the fire is, the fire is raging. Yes. So I think that the, the mindset is that, "Don't talk about it, and then it won't be an issue because you're not bringing attention to it." However, I guess, uh, maybe I'm, you know, just challenging that a bit and saying, "It's already in our attention whether we want it or not." So rather than not talking about it, let's bring it into the open. Let's talk about it in a mature way, an honest way. Totally. And that way, it's like relief right away. As soon as you start talking about it, it's like, like I've had guys come through our 30-day "corn"-free challenge, and they're like, "Man, I went 30 days since I was a teenager without watching it, without self-pleasure." And largely, it was because like, "I finally just talked about it." Like, "I finally just opened up and was just like, 'Man, I finally have someone to go to and be like, yo, you know what? I'm actually struggling with this.'" And I'm like, "Cool, man. Like, you and the rest of the world. So now we're over it. Let's, let's deal with it, right?" And so I think a large part of it is just talking about it openly.

So I think I think that I think that generally, uh, the idea is that if we don't talk about it, we don't make the samskara, we don't bring it into our awareness, so therefore it's not an issue. Yeah. And maybe that's true. Maybe the older generations, they didn't have to. Again, the older generation, like there wasn't cell phones where you just had like this stuff literally like few buttons away from it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and like, um, there's, there's some stats around how much of, uh, internet. Oh, okay. I'll give you a story. So, uh, I was doing a project for, I think it was in high school, and I was doing a project on Greece, like a report or something on Greece. So I went to www.greece.com. Well, greek.com, I don't know if it still is or not, was a Greek part.

Oh my God. They got the domain. They got the domain. They bought the domain early. Greek.com is, you know, Greek people doing it. Like, "Oh, they do it differently than in Italy." You know, right? "How do the Greeks do it?" Right? You know, right? It's like, it's like, okay. So the amount of actually unwanted exposure is, um, is tremendous as well. So like, again, like just, it was either today or yesterday again, was like on Facebook. I was posting a reel, and then there's this like, you know, kind of half-naked anime kind of dressed up woman, yeah, right? And so I was like, "Well, you know, unclick that." But it's like, so the unwanted exposure is there. So rather than just doing the avoidance thing, you can't avoid it. Yeah. Not in this age.

Just want to interject a second. Many children encounter "corn" accidentally through internet searches. Yes. And many guys that have come through, come through my trainings, have told me that they were exposed to it at such young ages, either accidentally, they were on the internet and some ad popped up, or they clicked here, clicked there, and next thing you know, they were into a site, or an older sibling introduced it to them as like a joke, like, "Hey, come here, watch this," right? You know? And but not realizing how, because sex is our highest stimulant, yeah, right, how much it makes an impression in our subconscious mind. And then it becomes the way that we associate like arousal. And then we think, "Oh, arousal, great. How do I deal with arousal? I go on to the Hub, right?" Right. "I go on to the internet." So, and what ends up happening is over time, we reinforce this habit: arousal, self-pleasure, and then depletion of energy. And then generally, there's like, now this generally only happens more in spiritually conscious men, then there's a feeling of like shame or guilt and regret. And that's actually the addiction cycle, right? So you get aroused, you do the act, then you feel shame. Cycle. You feel bad about yourself. Now you're reinforcing a self-image: "I'm not a good devotee. Yes, Krishna's mad at me. I'm a horrible person." Which actually then feeds a feeling of loneliness. And then how do you feed, how do you just escape from the loneliness? Again, do it again. Do it again. Circle, circle. So there you get into this really downward cycle. And the problem is, as time goes on, um, you know, what might have been two people, uh, making love goes into like, you know, like the weirdest, like, you know, orgy or something. You get into these weird.

One of the, one of the number one, um, um, looked up content is, I'm not going to say the word for the algorithm, but it's R-A-R-A-P-E.

Right. Oh, really? Rape. Rape. Rape. Uh, grape. Grape. Grape. Uh, grape. That's, that's a, it's huge. One of the, yeah, like, like, really? I, yeah. I've had guys that come through, uh, the training as well, like, "Nula, I'm scared. I'm not, I haven't acted upon anything, but what I'm watching is evil." Wow. It's evil stuff. And now what happens is the arousal, which is a natural biological, uh, uh, urge, is now being associated with rape, is now being associated with dominance, control. I was, uh, there was a woman, and she was giving a statement. It looked like she was giving in front of like a council, some kind of governing body, yeah. And she was talking about a 13-year-old boy raped his sister, younger sister. When they were interviewing the boy, like, "What compelled you to do this?" He said, "I was watching 'corn' and I just couldn't get the image out of my head. I was just, just couldn't get it out of my head." And it was like 2:30 in the morning, so he goes into his sister's room and, you know, rapes her. And like, do you just imagine the heartbreak? First of all, that 13-year-old boy, which a lot of people aren't going to feel compassion to, but I do. Mmm. He has to live with that for the rest of his life. That may, I mean, his the chances of him having a good life is like, really far from happening, right? The girl has to live with that for the rest of her life. The parents, like, you just imagine the heartbreak and the, the scenario. And, uh, there was a story in India of, I think it was three, no, there were like 9, 10, 11 boys raped a younger, uh, girl. Yeah. And they were trying to get her to watch "corn," really. They were trying to get her to watch it. She didn't want to watch it, blah, blah, blah. And then they ended up, you know, uh, doing, uh, what they did to her. Again, like, this is, of course, these are extreme cases. I'm not, I'm not obviously saying that everybody who watches, the average person who watches, uh, "corn," isn't going to go out and do that. Yeah. But it does lead to those types of thoughts. And what it does lead to is more hardcore stuff, right? I've had guys tell me, "Nula, I'm straight." Like, "I'm straight, but I'm watching, uh, uh, same-sex content, right?" Hold, homosexual content. Yeah. "I'm, I, I'm watching homosexual content." And that's because it, it has, it has to do with the dopamine that you get and the stimulation that eventually you need something more hardcore, more hardcore, more hard. Just like a drug. Just like a drug. Just like a drug. It's like, "Oh, you smoke a joint, you're high." But now you smoke a joint and you don't get the same. See, now you need a little bit more. You build tolerance to it. You build tolerance. And that's what's happening. So we've built tolerance. Our whole society is like that. Like, um, I was out for lunch today with one of my students, and he said, he said, like, "Yeah, like he goes like on Netflix and he's like, like what's PG-13 used to be like way rated way higher." Yes. Like they're fully swearing. There's, there's almost nudity, if not full nudity. And it's for like, "Oh, this is fine for kids." Yeah. It's like the, the rating. So our tolerance as a collective consciousness, our tolerance, um, for adult content is so high. We can't even identify anymore how far gone we've got gone to to this. And in my own journey, I only started re, as I started weaning myself off of this and started really trying to follow the Vedic, uh, sex principle in a really more strict way, did I realize how much it actually had a grip on me? Like I was like, "Whoa, like this is way tougher than I thought." And that's, you know, largely what got me into this work, right? Was which was like me trying to figure this out for myself, right?

Two things, uh, the neurochemical effects. So exactly what you were saying, "Corn" consumption triggers a surge of dopamine, the reward chemical in the brain. This reinforces the behavior and encourages repeated use over time. The brain may require more intense or novel stimuli. Yes. To achieve the same dopamine release, potentially leading to desensitization. Like other rewarding behaviors, frequent "corn" consumption can lead to tolerance, requiring progressively more extreme or novel content to achieve arousal or satisfaction. What you're saying is, is, is proven here. Like, yeah, there's enough. There's enough. Like, I, I mean, like, so part of the advocacy work that, uh, that I'm doing is we're starting to write legislation, uh, around, uh, around pornography and limiting, limiting its use. And I know Texas, for example, in Texas, you, so when you go on to a site, let's say, the Hub, right? Because that's the number one site in the world, right? Corn Hub. Yes. Yeah. So, yeah. Um, so when you, when you go on there, there's just a little thing that's like, "Are you 18?" And you click yes, and that's it, right? So there's basically no restriction to it, right? But I believe in Texas, you have to actually put in your ID, right? So they have to verify that you are 18, right? So that's a great starting place, and that's something that I would like to see happen everywhere. And so that, so as we continue our work and we continue, and this is what I'm, you know, one of the reasons I reached out and I wanted to come back on the show was I was hoping that, uh, there's very, very intelligent and smart devotees out there that, you know, are equipped, their lawyers, they can help in this regard, right? And, and so I'm hoping that some of them will see this and reach out and say, "Hey, Nula, we can help with that advocacy work." And I'm also hoping that all faith groups, but I really believe that Vaishnavas, with the standard of the philosophies that the Vedic knowledge has, that we also become the standard of like the illicit sex principle, right? Which is like will restore so much balance into our world, right? And so, uh, yeah, I'm really hoping that that people jump on board with this and help with this. But part of it is, so from a government perspective, there can be more restrictions and education around this. And there's enough science that we don't have to even, I said, be Bible thumpers, Guru thumpers, or whatever. Guru thumpers? I've never heard that before. Because like you heard the Bible thumpers, heard the Guru thumpers, you know, we don't have to take that approach for this, right? Um, uh, we could talk about the spiritual pieces of it because I, I love talking about that aspect of it. And, and for me, that's what it was all about, and still at its essence is what it's all about. Yeah. However, for the general population, um, there's enough science where we can simply, uh, uh, advocate the health crisis and the health issue that this is really having, beyond all the spiritual stuff, beyond. Yeah. So, so someone, and that's why I said, someone who's atheist can understand why still that they shouldn't indulge in "corn" because there are major health issues that come along with it. And so just like on, like cigarette packages, I know we were talking about that last night, right? Like on cigarette packs, so when you buy a cigarette package, they've got like the nasty pictures of like, you could potentially get, uh, erectile dysfunction. They have that on cigarette packages. Well, that is even more true for pornography, right? Um, um, um, the rewiring of of the brain, the damaging of of your neurotransmitters, the damaging of your dopamine receptors, how it actually rewires you. There's long-term studies that show that with excessive use, the prefrontal cortex, or the gray brain matter, is actually reduced or shrinks. And the prefrontal cortex is what determines good decision-making. Wow. And compulsive behavior. So what's really interesting is that the more you indulge in "corn," the chances of you overeating, the chances of you smoking or eating crappy foods, all are going to increase. The more compulsive you become. Yes. And that's like the furthest thing from sense control, right? Right. And so, um, you know, the more that the more that we can understand this at a level of biology, then we can reach the masses. And then those who are interested in growing closer to God and who understand the spiritual significance behind this work, yeah, you can understand that this will directly push you towards God.

I've watched guys on YouTube. So you talk about the movement, you know, no-fap and semen retention movement, which, you know, I'm definitely a, a big face in that, right? And so I've watched guys on YouTube, guys that I've seen, and, you know, they start off and they're like, "Man, no-fap. You know, I'm not watching 'corn.' I'm not jerking it." Blah, blah, blah. "Women love me." You know? And they're like, so attracted to me because there is a science of attraction behind that. And, and, and, you know, a self-controlled man is an attractive man. And there's all these qualities that someone gets from their, from controlled sexual energy, right? This is what Napoleon Hill talks about, the mysteries of sex transmutation in Think and Grow Rich. This is the part that he hones, which is that actually men who can do this, they can become wealthy, they can become genius, whatever their creative expression is, they are going to amplify that expression big time if they're not depleting and wasting their energy, if they're not being chased by their base desires, right? They would have to rise above it. But specifically, I've seen guys. So start off. You watch their channels, and just like my channel, like if you watch it over time, you could probably see the evolution of my energy, chilling out a little bit, you know, again, maturing in the messaging, maturing in the, in the, and it's like, so I've seen these guys mature. And so they start off with like, "Women love me. I can get as much of it as I want, want, because I'm so controlled." And da da da da da. "They can smell the pheromones on me. They're just loving it." Right? Like, "Women love me." To like, "Yeah, I've been going back to church lately, or I've been going to mosque lately, or I've been going to temple. I'm reading. I'm, I'm discovering God." So it went from, "I'm doing no-fap because women love me," which is like the first, maybe start of it, right? To like, this natural progression as their, as their sexual energy becomes re, as they rewire themselves, and they start to loosen the lust up, and then they start to feel more the peace of chastity, the more peace of a chaste mind, a chaste mind, right? You're like, "Hey, man, like, you know, I'm kind of really interested in like deeper things now, right?" Right? Like, "Yeah, it's cool that women like me, but like, okay, now what?" Well, now, yeah, yeah, now what? And they start to lose the taste. So what I've seen in my own experience, as well as watching other guys and coaching so many guys through this process, is I've seen how naturally there is a spiritual inclination that begins to be born. And someone who already has the spiritual inclination generally comes to work. They already have it somewhat. There's some scars have somehow led them to wanting to do this, but it really gets ignited once they become controlled in their sexual energy.

That's that's along the same lines as the Vedic paradigm as well, the perspective of the Vedas, uh, and also the Vedic scriptures about how when one doesn't lose that, uh, that energy, and instead of focusing it downward, one focuses it upward, then that goes to the brain. Exactly what we were talking about, but you were saying on like a scientific perspective. Yeah. And the Vedic perspective is the same thing, that that creative energy either is used for, should be used for like either creating children or a creative, another creative outlet. And in, in the case that you're talking about, either like, is it building wealth or making, you know, increasing one's, you know, a better life, a spiritual life, and things like that. Um, and so taking that up to the brain, tell me what you were saying about the science yesterday about the spine and and the brain that was really cool.

Dr. Work. I actually, it's, uh, what do you call like your, your main, your main video on YouTube, like your channel video, you know how you can put one video, like an intro video? Yeah. This is my intro video. So if someone goes to Nula Do on on my YouTube channel, I did a video on Dr. Flatt's work. And Dr. Flatt, um, talked about, he's so, he's talking about the science. So he's not a spiritualist at all, and he was just talking about the science behind it. But I want, I want to answer that question, but I want to, I want to like, kind of talk about something just quickly before that, if you don't mind.

Sure. Because I just going along with the spiritual aspect, there's an analogy I like to use just so people can understand when we talk about transmuting sexual energy, right? Like, what does that really mean? Yeah. So, um, if you look at it from like an alchemy perspective, everything is vibration. Everything's vibrating. And the rate of something is, um, so think of the, so I like to use the analogy of ice, water, and steam. Mmm. Ice, water, and steam are chemically the same thing, but the difference between them is the rate of vibration, right? Right. So as we get to a lower vibration, it becomes ice, right? Okay. So ice, call that lust. Water, call that creative force, power, energy, even mental attraction and ability. Steam, call that spiritual, call that love. Okay? So we start here. Love. I'm going to start doing no-fap, semen retention. It's still lusty, though. It's still like, "I'm going to do this because women are going to love me," right? Right. Or, "I'm going to do this because I'm going to become more attractive." I'm going to do this. So it's still, but, but because it's starting to loosen up, starting to boil, right? I like to use the analogy of boiling water. That's what we're doing. We're like boiling the lust, putting it through fire transformation, right? Right. So we're like, we're going to boil it. We're going to, then it's going to become water. And water is as it's rising up. So now it's no longer being put to the base chakras or the lower energies. Yes. It's now rising up. It's now going to be expressed as creative endeavors. I'm going to build my business. I'm going to create a podcast. I'm going to, whatever your natural disposition is. For me, it's like advocacy work, speaking, doing this, like this is like my, like I can do this all day long, right? Right. So this is like my, my nature, right? So now I'm doing my nature. I'm I'm advocating. I'm doing legislation. I'm, right? This is where I, you know, a lot of joy and creative expression. For someone else, it might be like their music or their art. What you'll find is that guys will start to just come online with their creative expressions. They'll start writing books. They'll start, whatever they're about. They'll start doing mechanics. He'll start building the most amazing vehicles.

They asked Elon Musk about, uh, masturbation. Really? Yeah. So, and he's like, he's like, "No." He says, "It doesn't even make sense from an evolutionary perspective to masturbate, right?" Like, he's like, "Because you're just like, we're wasting the energy." This, yeah, yeah. This is something known amongst all elite men. That's that's the like funniest part. When I get like hate or like people are like, "Oh, so weird." I'm like, "I was like, I was like, dude, like you do realize like all the most successful people in the world?" I'm using the word successful in a material context, but both spiritual or material, they do this. Steve Jobs was documented known known to have non-ejaculatory sex, right? Something that I teach my guys. I got a lot of flack for that, right? You know, when we first did the podcast, "Oh, this guy's teaching that's three ducks." I'm like, "Well, first of all, people are having it. I'm not teaching it. They're like, they're already doing it." Yeah, right? "I, if you're listening to this, somebody had sex, so you could listen to this, right? It's like, relax, right? It's like, but yeah, he was known to do that because, and he was, it's documented saying his partner said, yeah, he would, he wouldn't ejaculate all the time because he would hold that and be like, 'No, I need that for my wealth and my power.' Like, I need that creative force, that drive."

Semen retention Pereira. Not me. This was, I was, uh, so my, my name is Nicholas Pereira. My initiating name is Nula Do, right? But my, my government name is or Kriya name is Nicholas Pereira. And so, uh, I saw this article called "Semen Retention Pereira." And there's lots of articles written about me when I ran in, in, when I ran for government in Canada, right? And, and, you know, so they used obviously my, my legal name, right? And so I thought it was written about me, right? And I was like, "Oh, I haven't seen this one. Let me click on this one." Right? My vanity. I'm like, "Oh, here, even if it's bad, I'm like, I still got to see it." It wasn't about me. It was about Alex Pereira, who's like UFC champion. Oh, yeah. Alex Pereira. Yeah. And if you see, I'm, I'm a UFC like, uh, like fan. Oh my God. So much. Oh, yeah. Love UFC, right? Like, I, I've watched every fight this season. It's the only sport that I, that I follow. I have a devotee WhatsApp group of all devotees who are into UFC. Oh my gosh. Add me to that. I did not know that even existed. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Please add me. Every time there's a fight, they all come on and they're like talking about it. But then they're like, "Oh, you going to that temple?" It's like, all devotees, but they're like, all guys. And they're all like, "I'll add you to the group." Yeah, add me to the group. I did not know that existed. That's Alex Pereira. Yeah. So Alex Pereira, the reason I'm such a fan of his is not because we share the same last name. That just made me like an extra fanboy of his, right? But what I loved about him was, did you see the fight where he fought, uh, Hill? I didn't see that one. Okay. So anyways, there's this, he, he just like rips him apart, right? But there's this, right before, he just like beats the crap out of him, right? Yeah. He gets kicked in the nuts and he doesn't move. Like, the dude is scary. Like, Pereira is scary. Yeah, yeah. Like, I don't know if you saw the one, I forget his name, the last fight. The guy, the guy was like, "You got to tell him to stop doing the voodoo whatever he's doing." But like, the guy was like, like he does like that, like thing, his thing. He's like a warrior. I love Chimaev, right? I love it, right? I'm like, such a fan, right? And why? And so they call him "Semen Retention Pereira." Oh, I didn't know that. And so I read this article, and it was because he uses semen retention as part of his training process. And I'm like, "Yeah, that's why he has so much V, so much potency, right? He's just, boom." So anyways, what made him a, that was even before I knew this, I just intuitively was like, "Man, this guy has so much focus." And I just admire that. Why I like, uh, MMA and the UFC, it's funny. I don't like to watch people fight, like, like a street fight. I don't like it. I don't generally like violence at all. But I don't consider this violence. These are warriors. These are trained fighters, athletes going in. But what I appreciate about them is their bravery, their level of focus, their just their their skill set. For weeks, for like eight weeks, they have to be so focused to like do that training camp. And I couldn't do that. That's so difficult. It's so difficult. I have a buddy, Christian Sio, he just fought in Dana White's Contender Series. So I helped him with some meditations and different things, helping him prepare. And yeah, he's a good friend of mine. And, and, uh, the training camps are insane. They're insane. You think you think we're disciplined? Oh, these guys are like next level. So I, I just have a lot of respect for their craft. So anyways, Pereira gets kicked in the nuts, right? He doesn't move. Really. The ref is gonna go give the time out. He does this to the ref. He literally tells the ref, "No timeout." Really? Like, "I don't need it."

Oh my God. He's like, "I'm about to destroy this guy." He didn't, his eyes did not move from this, from his target.

Oh my gosh. The guy must have like, I, if I was on the other side, I would be like, "Crapping myself." Right? Yeah, yeah. He just tells the ref with his hands, "Mmm, I got this." And then he goes, two minutes later, the fight was done because he just like ripped the guy apart, right? And I was just like, "Oh my goodness, this guy is insane. Like, this guy is definitely operating on a different level than your average fighter." Yeah. And then it was like, not too long after that, I saw the article, "Semen Retention Pereira," and he talks about that. That's part of his training regiment. And I'm like, "Yeah, that's what gives him his V, that's what gives him his potency." And he's, you know, it's clear that he's, he's tapped into something of a higher frequency. So point is, water, creative energy. Yeah. Your ice, lust, with pornography, it keeps you right in the ice, low frequency, low energy. You're just depleting all your life force, all your energy. That's why you're feeling depressed. That's why people have social anxiety. That's why they don't have the courage to go after their dreams or to stick up for themselves or to speak their minds or to even serve at a higher level, because any guy knows once he's, you know, finished, he's like, "Time to go to sleep," right? And every time a man ejaculates, he releases prolactin in the system. So prolactin is like why you feel tired after. It's kind of like, uh, it's like nature's way of going, "Oh, okay, you've done your biological duty. Yeah. Go nap now." Yeah. So you're like, "Oh, I need to sleep, right?" And that's, but like overdoing that, like on a daily basis, sometimes, you know, I've read, uh, and heard of articles of people talking about doing it a number of times a day and things like that. That must be so damaging to one's body and like biology, right? Yeah. Yeah. And, and prolactin is a testosterone stifler. So you're not producing any testosterone. So therefore, over time, your T levels are going to drop. And as a man, as your level drops, so does then your masculine qualities, right? That masculine potency that gives us drive to.

Want to be successful? To want to be the next Elon Musk or the next, you know, whoever, Sheila prad, or the next, you know, whatever, right? You know, look at Sheila prad, right? Like I was like, this guy is insane. Like, you know, like I'm like, he was 69 when he started. Let's be real, he can out-energize all of us, right? One a day, you know, just so focused. He slept maybe like two or three hours a day. Yeah, yeah.

People ask me that too, because my sleep reduction has gone so down over the years, right? Like I just sleep way less, right? Like I've done like two, three, four hours of sleep and then I just keep going. I'm full of energy and people are like, "How do you do it?" Of course, my cheeky answer is, "I'm horny." I'm like, "I'm really, really horny." But I've rewired my brain over the years to be like, but horny doesn't mean it's time for me to go on the Hub and wank it, right? Horny means it's time for me to go create water, right? Right. It's like it's up here now. And then as that energy continues to rise, right, up to the top, then steam, then it turns into spiritual power. Well, turns into ojas, right? Ojas is aura, right? According to the Vedic process, right? And what it does is it, it creates actually an auric field and it strengthens your subtle or light body, which will become your immortal body or your spiritual body. So you're actually changing, you're changing your physical body subtly as you become more chaste and you spend less time in indulgence in base desires into your spiritual body. And you're becoming now closer and closer to Krishna because Krishna is all spiritual and you're becoming more and more spiritual. And therefore your consciousness and everything is purifying. So ultimately, semen retention is part of the purification process. And in today's age, the number one enemy to that is porn, right? And so that's so vibrationally, lust and love are the same thing. I actually put them on the same spectrum, but just of different frequencies. Yeah, lust is the lowest version of love. Hence why 90% of watching pornography is a desire for love. Yeah, it's actually why we chase so many things.

And that's why our process of selfless service is like so beautiful because the more you serve and the more you give of yourself, you now, you're thinking of somebody else. And now you're thinking, like, I don't have a devotee community physically around me, right? In, in New Brunswick, in St. John, New Brunswick, where I live, right? Um, um, there is an ISKCON Fredericton that's about an hour away, and there's some devotees splattered around. Uh, but I, I'm like, I was born Christian, right? So, you know, I think I was joking last night, right? People ask me because I'm a bit all over, right? Like, like I wear the cross, I wear the, I wear the tilak, this has the Buddha on it. People like, "What are you?" And I'm like, "Hearty Christian." This weird, this guy's so weird, right? You know? And I'm like, I was just soul, you know? I just, that's it, right? It's like, you know, the, I think when we get too caught up in the labels, we start to miss the essence of it. Totally. That's, I'm like, that's, I'm like, I don't care, call me whatever you want, it's not the point, right? The point is is that we become loving, right? Filled with so much love that what we feel is sacrifice. Right? Now, we no longer, we don't even want to sacrifice. I was listening to actually a Christian preacher who said something really like profound. She said, she, she was, it was a woman preacher, and she said, you don't have at the beginning. And I, we teach the same thing, it's the same thing, right? She said, at the beginning, you're following the rules out of like duty. She says, but actually the evolution of that is you want to follow the rules because you want to please God. Yes. And that it's like, you might follow, as you might follow nofap or semen retention because you're like, okay, I'm gonna, you know, or like the guys are like, I'm going to attract more women, or I'm just going to become more powerful, or whatever. Yeah, but it evolves to eventually like, well, I don't watch pornography one, because I'm just so engaged in serving and helping people. So I do, I do, um, I do a service at the local church, just right in my neighborhood. Church is like three. I went there, I'm like, "Hey, I need a place to serve. Can I volunteer and help and do stuff?" So I do service there, right? And, um, and I'm just like, it just fills my heart up so much that like, I just, I just like watching pornography seems stupid. And I'm not calling people that watch it stupid, I've watched it, I get it, I understand the draw to it. But once you get a taste, a real taste for that transformation, that steam, and you start to feel that love of God just overpour you, and you're just pouring out of you, and you just want to help people and help people, you're just like, I just, that stuff is not needed. But I, I find like for myself, and I'm not perfect, I'm just saying, and it hasn't, it hasn't been an overnight thing, it's been slowly over time, over time, over time, just cleaning up, cleaning up, cleaning up, cleaning up. And then really taking on chastity to really experience a higher level of bhakti, right? Like, how can I experience just selfless love? And I, I'm not saying I've actually achieved that, but I so desire it. Like I was like, "Oh man, if you got a taste for it." Yeah. I'm like, "If what I've experienced is just a taste of it," because I know I have my own vanities and ego and all that stuff. And, you know, I'm very like open about that, say like, "Hey, like, but man, as I feel it loosening up," yeah, "I just feel so much better." And I can feel the material draws just not being as like, they're just not attractive. Yeah, it's just not attractive anymore.

Well, it says in the Bhagavad Gita about how when one gets, when one gets a taste for the higher things, then those lower tastes, they naturally go away. Like, why would I? You're like, you're, you're, you're then you're operating on another, you're, you're trying to always operate on a higher level and you have a taste for that higher level. So then you're like, yeah, those things are not, like, they're not tasteful anymore. And, you know, the, the, the indulging in porn is like a very selfish, is a very selfish thing because it's, it, like, basically supporting the idea that I am this body and, and I'm a man and I'm, I want to enjoy someone in this way. And so that's why I'm acting in this sort of way. But when one gets away from that selfishness and, and thinks, okay, I want to do, like you said, selfless service, I want to do some service for God, for the devotees, and things, then that brings, that brings you out of the center of, of, you know, that selfishness and put something else in the center, which is Krishna or devotees and service. And so, um, that, that's a way to, you know, to think about it, um, to think about how we can, you know, get ourselves out of the center. And I feel like, you know, in my own life, having children was like such a way to get yourself out of the center. My God, like, you're not the center. I'm like, not the center of my life at all anymore. And in some ways, in the beginning, it was like, it was like really jarring. Oh my gosh, like, I'm not the center of my life anymore. It's crazy. But now I wouldn't have it any other way because, because it's my, my taste is different now. It's like, I just want to, I just want to serve these little people and my wife and Krishna. And it, it's like my purpose, like, could say in my life. That's right. Yeah.

People are so searching for purpose and like there's books written about purpose and find your purpose and all this stuff. And it's like, our, our purpose is so simple: serve others, right? It's serve others, right? You know, and, and, and, you know, serve the devotees, serve other people. I don't care personally, like, I don't discriminate between this person and that person. If someone needs service, then like, everyone who doesn't need help, I need help, you need help, like, everybody needs help. And actually, I think what pleases God is, is when we cooperate nicely. Yeah, right? Just like a father, when they, he sees his sons cooperating or playing nicely, they're like, it's just very pleasing to the father. Totally. So why would Krishna not be pleased? You know, why would God not be pleased when we cooperate together and we understand and we work out our differences? And, you know, now especially in, let's say, devotee community, I mean, like, you know, we know that there's politics within the devotee community and all that stuff. But we should be, the, the, the example to the rest of the world of how we can live unity and diversity. Yes. And embrace unity and diversity. If we can't do it, what example are we setting to the rest of the world of how amazing Vedic philosophy is or how much, you know, gold there is inside of it? Yeah. Um, anyways, we, we're kind of, we are getting like on track on a spirit, which I love. Like I love it. I love it. It's so nice.

Um, how does someone, like, if someone has watched porn, how do they know they're addicted to the point where like, "Oh, I need help with this?" Yeah. And then remind me, because I didn't answer the question about Dr. Fart's work about the biology of it, but we can tie that into. Oh, that's right. Yeah, because I went on the whole vibrational tangent. Reel me in here, right?

So, yeah, that's a great question. Just had a guy get on a call with me a couple days ago, right? And was is like, "Yeah, I found you on YouTube." And I'm like, "Cool." And I was, I was like, "What did you type in?" He said, "Am I addicted to porn?" And I was like, "So, do you know or do you not know?" He's like, "I'm not sure." And I'm like, "It's actually more common than you think." I said, "Here's a really simple test: Have you tried stopping?" He's like, "Yes." "Did you stop?" He's like, "No." And this dude's in his 50s, by the way. So when people think this is a young man's problem, yeah, it's not. My oldest student ever is 70. Currently, I have a guy, 65, coming through one of our training programs. Oh my gosh, 65, and he's like, "Nila, I needed you when I was 20. Where were you when I was 20?" I'm like, "I wasn't alive." He starts laughing, right? We have always good time, right? I was like, "I wasn't around, bro." Oh, that's too much. Yeah, yeah. But he's like, "Wow, those that, yeah, yeah, it's, it's, oh, like, so people who are like, the part, like, this is probably a really, like, this probably a little bit too much, but like, do the parts even still work at that, that age?" Yeah, yeah. I'll get, tell you another story. So I was walking with a buddy of mine, 65, right? So we're on a hike, right? This guy's like ripped, 65. The guy will outrun most 20-year-olds, right? So we're on a hike, we're doing something called rucking. It's like a military-style hiking where you put like weights in your back. So we're doing this rucking thing, like, so I'm like, you know, like, just, just my personality, right? And I'm just like, "Hey, bro, so like, you know, what I do for a living?" He's like, "Yeah, yeah, I think it's awesome, man." I'm like, "Yeah, cool." I was like, "So you're like 65?" He's like, "Yeah, I'm 65." I'm like, "You still like, you know, still about it?" He's like, "Oh yeah, I'm good to go, you know?" Cuz he's got like seven kids, you know, married, blah, blah, blah. He's like, "Oh yeah, I'm good to go, man. I'm like a 20-year-old." And then he said something to me that was really kind of profound. And this guy's again, not not spiritual at all, right? But I should say not at all, but you know, he's, you know, in the conventional sense. Yeah, in the, in what, in, in the standard in which, in which we'll call spiritual, right? Yeah. Um, he said, he said, "Sex is for the healthy." He said, "Think about it. He says, nature wants its healthiest specimens to reproduce, right? He says, so actually, arousal and attraction is for healthy people. He says, so the healthier you are, the actually the more energy you're going to have for that." He's like, "So I'm in great shape, I work out, I eat well, I'm good to go, right? He's like, "I'm, you know, boom." He's like, "Everything works, I'm, I'm good." I was like, "Wow, okay, cool. It makes sense." And then based upon the things that I've learned from a biological perspective, it makes perfect sense, right? It's like, okay, cool. So, um, yeah, yeah, so anyways, so apparently, yeah, it still works, right?

The question was, how do I know, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, very simple test: Try stopping. Stop. Oh, crap, I can't stop. Good chances are you have. Whether it's a high degree of addiction or just maybe a slight vice, but it's there. If you find that you can't stop, but you want to stop, then you know you've got an addiction, essentially. Something along those lines. Is that I've noticed that when, uh, devotees are celibate, like if they're a Sanyasi, like if they're older, and you can tell that they've been celibate, they have like, if they do it in the kind of sort of the wrong way, they come, they come off like very hard-hearted or angry. Yeah. Okay. Yes, yes, yes. But then there's those people who I've noticed who are who have been celibate for many years, but they're like incredibly, insanely loving and personal. Yes. And so you're saying that there's a right way to do it and there's the way to transmute it and, and like create like love from that? Uh, so, so I guess what my question is now is, how do we avoid like becoming more angry and hard-hearted? Because that energy is not being like, like used in the proper way, even though you are celibate, but you're like, you're like, ah, you're like angry, you know? Because like, like I've experienced that, like you just, like I think people have. And then but then there's the way, like, so like, how do we, how do, do you ever have to deal with that? Like, how to not be angry? Yeah.

Well, 100%. I would say that, you know, we call that, you know, just like sexual frustration, right? Or the anger, right? And even, I believe there's a line that where Krishna says, like, lust turns into anger, anger turns into, like, and there's this whole degree process, right? So that's, that's that, that particular verse is indicating this, this process, right? So, um, when lust is unfulfilled, it turns to anger. To anger, yeah. That's right. So what, what the anger piece is, is, and I've definitely had that in my own life, is that actually you're retaining, but you're still lusty. So lust isn't just the physical act, you're still really desiring things, right? Like, okay, now I'm just lusty for fame, give me more fame. Now I'm lusty for power, give me more power. Like, so, so lust can be, lust isn't just have to be the physical, uh, expression, right? There's lust for food. I mean, how many people transfer their lust to food? And, and so they, they, there it's like acceptable in some ways, yeah, they're celibate, but in other ways, going hard on the gabs, just in that, yeah, yeah, bring another plate, bring another plate, another two plates, keep it coming. That's that's a lust, it's a lust, right? So it's no, it's like, and again, like, hey, you know, all power to you, we all have our own lust, right? So, so in the sense of that, so you have to deal with your lust overall, which is that lust just gets transferred, right, to something else until it's really purified, right? And so, um, so the anger frustration is that the lust is so, while the chastity there is there, right, there's still some lust, and that is not being fulfilled. So there the frustration is there, the hard-heartedness is there. So what the, the individual, and I've definitely, you know, uh, have to deal with this as well, is like, okay, where am I being lusty? So I'm just going to use a personal example, because I always just find it easiest just to talk about my own experiences, right? Instead of as like saying somebody else. So for me, I, I started practicing retention and such, and then I became super lusty for, for, for sex, right? Like where I was just like, I just want to do it all the time, all the time, you know, and just because of retaining it, because of retaining it, it's just like, it just brought out, because what semen retention does is it brings up what's in the subconscious. It brings, and the subconscious is the heart, totally. Yeah, so it brings up what's in your heart, which is good. Yes. Let's, let's take a deep dive into your heart and let's see what's really is there, right? And so that's what retention does. So I, I, I liken it to like, if you want to clean up the ocean, so it's kind of nice to go on the surface of the ocean and be like, "Oh, look, we cleaned it up." Yeah, it's nice. But then if you dive a little bit deeper into the ocean, then you got all the plastic and all the crap we're pouring in there and blah, blah, blah. And it's like, "Oh, oh, this is way down there." So you can't see it because it's way down there. Yeah. So what happens with with any kind of chastity, any practice around chastity, is it will start to bring up as that energy travels up to the heart, it starts to open up the heart, which actually means it's going to bring up your deep stuff. So what it brought up for me was tremendous amounts of lust, desiring sex. I was like, "Oh my gosh," and I tried to act upon that and, and, you know, like, you know, and, and like, you know, just like, "Oh yeah, we can do all this like stuff and blah, blah, blah." Then just realized like, there's nothing there, right? You know, then it transferred to like, "I'm just going to get really famous now. I'm just going to be so famous," which is just another form of lust, right? Yeah. And then once I started recognizing that, I was like, "Oh my gosh, dude, like, would you chill out?" And then I recognized, "Okay, what is it that I really want?" Oh, and this is where, I mean, at the end of the day, you can't avoid the spiritual conversation because at the end of the day, what do we all want? God. What do you really want? What I really want is to be in relationship with God. Yeah. So why do I want fame, beauty, all these qualities? Yeah, because you want him. But the material mind is, I want the quality but without him, right? I just want, right? I want, I want the fame, but I want me to be famous, not you, you know what I mean? It's like, okay, I want the wealth, but I want it for me, not for you. Yeah. So again, so it goes back to becoming selfless again, where it's like, all right, man, how are you going to deal with this now? So I was like, all right, I can retain. I was that guy. I can retain, but now I'm feeling myself lusty in other ways. And then I felt myself being frustrated. And I know because that line sticks with me, right? From lust comes anger, comes, right? And it's unfulfilled. And I'm like, "Well, where am I being lusty?" Oh, I want, I want, I want. So what I started doing is dealing with that. And one of the ways I deal with that, like for instance, I use social media. I restrict my social media, like I, like, meaning I make sure like I make my content, I make my posts, but I don't check the amount of views, yes, and likes and comments and all that stuff I get. I do check it once a week because I have to, like, from a business perspective, there's like a growth, there's a practical aspect of why I check. But I no longer check it from that place of like, "Did someone like this video? Someone like this video? Do someone like this video?" So then I started realizing letting that go. And then again, there's a form of just willpower restriction at first, and then it goes to, "Man, I just feel so much better." Oh my gosh, I just feel so much better not like being so obsessed with this. And then, but again, that energy has to go somewhere. And then that's where I recognized, um, I need a place to be of service. And I was like, "Okay, I got to get myself plugged back into a spiritual community of some sort, something that." And for me, it just had to be practical. So I'm like, "Okay, I don't have a devotee community around me, but there's a church right up the street. I was born Christian." I'm like, "I don't probably even said if you actually, if you understand this, will make you a better Christian." And I felt like that's true for me, like a better Christian. Again, I don't care about the labels, I don't, I'm soul, right? But it's like, from a practical perspective, I'm like, "I am today a way better Christian because of what I've learned from Srila Prabhupada and the Vedic knowledge." Yeah, right? So I go to church and I do my service there and I just, you know, so I worship and I do service and I clean and I do. And it's so funny because I'm so fulfilled. Like I'm just feel so good. And it's because I don't want anything from the church. I want nothing from them. I, I, I donate, I do my service there. I, I, they've given me an opportunity where every Friday I do a little sermon because they do this thing where they feed like a lot of like poor people, homeless people, this type of stuff. So I do an inspirational talk there every Friday for like a really like down and out crowd. This is the first time I've even mentioned publicly that I do this. Wow. Right? And just because we're talking about it, but I've purposely never mentioned it based upon, I'm like, "I'm going to do this just for the sake of, just for the sake of this pleases God." Wow. Service. Yeah. This is the first time I've ever mentioned that. And it's, it felt right. It's like, and that's how I've been doing it. So I do things and I don't tell people about it because I'm, because I'm facing my own desire for, "Hey, I did something good. Someone recognized me. I did something good. Someone recognized me." But rather just trying to please God. And I felt that as I've continued to do that and take that on as a practice, that my heart is much more at peace. And what I notice is that again, the higher taste is there. So the lesser tastes like social media scrolling and checking to see how famous am I, you know, right? It's just, it's like, it's cool, man. I feel so satisfied in the work we're doing. Yeah. I was like, "Man, like, look at this, like, what I get to come here, I'm traveling to New Jersey. I've pictured this, like, I've visualized like, I know I'm going to get to travel, I'm going to get to meet cool people, I'm going to get to help people understand chastity at a better level. I'm going to be able to preach in the most unique way." Like, I've wanted all this and have visualized it and pictured it for so long, and it's all coming into fruition. But I, God kept it away from me for many years. He kind of gave me glimpses, but he kept me on a tight rope in the sense of, he's like, "What you're doing requires you to be at a certain level." Like, again, you can't just put on the robe and like, you got to walk the talk. You got to walk it. Yeah. And, and I felt God held me accountable. Like if I messed up, he would slap me. Like I noticed like the rope gets tighter the more you ask for responsibility. Yes. Oh, you want to be big guru? Okay, you sure about that, bro? This is, I admire you a lot, you know, like, thanks for being you and doing like, you're doing the Lord's work, I'm telling you. Like, thank you. That's really, really. I mean, like, what you just said in the past five minutes, that's like super deep. Like some devotees, like who have been devotees for ages, like they won't even get to that level. They'll just stay on that base level about labels and, and, you know, like, like not looking at something in a deeper way, but just looking, "Oh, like he's not following this strictly or this, this label, and he doesn't look the part, and this, and doesn't act like, like we need to look beyond all those things and like really get to the essence." Like, I, I could hear it when, when you said, "I'm just a soul." Like, let's just get down to the basics here. Really, the base thing is, is that we're souls, and to, and we want something, we're pleasure seeking, we want something deeper. To get those deeper things, Krishna consciousness, service to others, service to Krishna, is what's going to really satisfy the soul. And this whole porn thing is just a distraction from that, basically.

Devotee for devotees, yeah, yeah. So, you know, such ananda, right? Pleasure seeking, right? And we're eternal, we're full of knowledge, we're pleasure seeking. Um, it's because we are pleasure itself, like, like, but not, not bodily, yes, right? This is, this is why it's so uncomfortable, like, to be in the body, right? Like, it's an uncomfortable situation because once you recognize, like, "Oh, I'm not this body, I'm not this mind, I have a body, I have a mind." Yeah, but then you're free. So, you know, uh, uh, uh, people talk about freedom, right? From a political perspective, right? Yes. Um, you know, and, and, you know, there's certain conversations around politics that largely represent like freedom. Now, I was part of the quote-unquote freedom movement in Canada, right? And I left, not that I don't agree with it anymore or anything like that, but I recognized, "Oh, we're just as trapped as the same people we think we're fighting." Actually, I said, because the two coins, you're, you're, you're, you're two sides of the same coin, yes. Put the coin down, right? Right. Just put the whole coin down, right? Um, and look to real freedom. I've said, I said, "If you want, if you want power politics, if you want freedom, God, real freedom, in my opinion, is in God because God can set you free from the illusions from Maya." So, in, in Vedic, in the, we call it Maya, the Buddhists call it Mara, and the Christians call it Satan or the devil, right? It's, they're all pointing to the same, the, the force that keeps us in our lower nature, yes, right? And keeps us there. To use sort of Christian language, pornography is Satan's weapon. It is number one weapon in this age. I really believe it is Maya's biggest tool. Why? Because it totally keeps you, it, I even say it keeps you lower than the animals because even the animals, at least they're, they're self-regulated by their, like, you know, they've got a season, a time, you know, they're like, "Oh, it's spring, you know, you know, it's time to heat, you know, time to get it on. Winter, we're going to sleep for six months." And yeah, yeah. So, so their, their bodies naturally regulate. That's such a good point. Lower than the animals. We're lower than the pornography is lower than the animals because at least the animals are regular, right? And now here's another interesting story specifically around masturbation is, um, there was a study done around monkeys, and monkeys started self-pleasuring only when they were in captivity. Oh. So there's something potentially to say about the lifestyles we live and this this need to self-pleasure because I'll tell you, like, like, it's a boredom thing, yeah, like it's connected with that loneliness, boredom, isolation, yeah, and wrap those all up into the same kind of thing. Isolation, boredom, all this stuff. There's no way we should be bored, yeah. There's no way, there's absolutely no way in this world that we should be bored with the amount of things to do, the amount of service. Like, if someone's like, "I don't know what to do," I'm like, "Are you really?" In this day and age, like, there's like probably more things, we have more options now than our parents did and our parents' parents did. So it's not a matter of you don't have nothing to do. What it is, is, one, your hormones are out of whack, yeah, and we are clearly not living a natural lifestyle, yes. And because we're not living a natural lifestyle, it's now manifesting in different ways. So there's like what we call, um, branch issues and root issues. The, the reason that I don't judge anybody for watching pornography, one, as I would feel like the biggest hypocrite, yeah, like my, a good evening for me at one time in my life was, I'm going to hit the casino. Start there. Well, no, I'm going to start with a few joints. So that's no intoxication. Done. Broke that one. Then I'm going to hit the casino. We're going to order a steak dinner, and then we'll hit the strip club when we're done. And that was like the pinnacle of a good, good night. Friday, this is what we're doing, right? And then you meet the devotees, and they're like, "Yeah, you need to do all of the opposite of that." What this guy's crazy, but he looks so happy. So I'm not happy, so maybe, maybe we'll find something in that, right? Yes. You know, and so the, the, that I, I, I don't think that, you know, just because you've been, you, you start following the rules or the regulations for a few years or a few lifetimes, that all of a sudden you're like, spiritually superior now. Like, all, all of a sudden you're like, you know, like, "Whoa, easy there, saint." You know, right? Yeah, yeah, right. So I think that it's just important that we just chill out on like the saint, the, like doing all the right things outwardly, if we don't get that it's about cleaning up the heart. Yes, right? That's what you were talking about, like, it's, you're saying that some devotees don't reach that understanding or, or, you know, and, and one, I would say, well, maybe not this life, maybe it's a progression. Yeah. And at the same time, maybe we should also then question how we're presenting the information, if we're not keeping the essence, the essence, if the secondary is taking over the primary, yeah, then we're going to lose the primary. Yeah. And the primary is love. Love of God. Yes. Which then spills out into love of people. And love of people doesn't mean just this group of people and not that group of people. It means everyone. It means everyone. It means all living entities. That picture of the Brahman who sees, uh, the yogi who sees everyone equally. He sees the dog, the dog eater, the tree, the elephant. He sees them all the same. Yeah, the same, same. What's, what's he's part and parcel of God? He's part and parcel. There's, there's Krishna in a different form. There's another part of Krishna. There's part of Krishna. Maybe just levels of interaction in the material. Okay, more mode of ignorance, mode of passion, oh, sattvic mode of, you know, cool, but all, all part and parcel. So what's, what's the, what's the deal, you know? Let's.

Just be there, right? And, um, and then, and then, and then, basically, we can get to that place where then we can stop dealing with branch issues. So, chronography is a branch issue. Bran, what do you mean by branch issue? So, think of a tree, yeah? A tree grows from the seed and then creates branches and creates the fruit, yeah? If you want better fruit, you don't change the fruit. You have to go and change the seed, right? So, the branch issue means it's a manifestation of a deeper problem. Yes, it's not a problem itself. So, stop making it a problem. Stop looking at the branches. You stop looking at chronography and being like, "That's the problem." Oh, okay.

So, guys come to me and like, "My problem is chronography." I say, "Okay, cool." And then I'll start to be like, "Are you single or in a relationship?" "I'm in a relationship." "Tell me about your marriage." "Oh, well, yeah, like me and my wife, we're not intimate at all." Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? "Oh, okay. Why not?" "Oh, well..." Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Oh, oh. And then you start laying, peel the layers, and then it's, next thing you know, it's like, "And my mom didn't love me and didn't like me." Okay. So, that's the real, the real issue is that when you're five years old, your, your father didn't show you enough love, your mother didn't show you enough affection, da, da, da. And this is now manifested into this problem. Wow.

So, unless we get to there. So, the point is, is that it, the P, the, the, where does the, where does the seed live? In the heart, yes. So, the subconscious mind is the heart. As we transmute our energy, as that energy is put to different endeavors, it's going to bring up all of what's in the heart. And that's what's good, because only when it comes to the surface can we then actually clean it up. Mhm. So, to, to, to be like, "Why is that one guy frustrated or angry?" Good chances are, is there some th, still some things in his heart that he hasn't dealt with yet. So, while he's celibate, he still may be mad that Dad didn't love him, or he still may feel betrayed that the devotee was mean to him or said that thing that offended him.

So, you're saying that come, that indication will come out when one becomes, when one retains it? It comes up more. It comes up more so you can actually deal with it. Deal with it. Yeah, yeah. Because seed retention in itself is part of the purification process. So, to purify, just like, uh, just like, like, you know, like, let's say you get a cut. The cut hurts, but what hurts even more than the cut is the healing process, right? The next day it hurts, but the hurt is a good thing. Why? Because it's an indication you're healing. Yes. Right? So, the pains in our heart, when they come up, we want to generally avoid it because we're pleasure-seeking. We avoid pain. Hence, why most people don't want to do the real tough work, yeah? The real spiritual work, which is in here, and dealing, sitting with themselves, and sitting down with like their lust and their envy and their, whatever, greed, and saying, "Okay, guys, we need to have a real conversation." You know, like, "I see how you've been running the show."

So, so, when, so, using your example, like, when you're saying when your wife was away and then it triggered, how does that relate with what you're saying right now, like, as far as it being a branch thing? Yeah. Okay. So, the branch issue was that I actually, going back, I started watching chronography when I was like 18, 20, alone. So, like, I would come home. So, okay, so what triggered it was being alone. Being alone would trigger it. It's like, I'm alone, boom. I'm alone. Parents go out, I'm alone. My first website was ns.com. So, for hip-hop people, they know NS, right? NS, right? That's because people were home. NS.com. The moment everybody was gone, the second website I visited was s3x dcom. Right, right. So, when I'm alone, this is what I do. When I'm alone, this is what I do. Now, well, now I'm married. Now I'm alone. This is what I do. Oh, well, that doesn't feel right anymore. Right, right. Because, um, now that's like, and now, now at the beginning, it didn't, it didn't not, not feel right. Two negations. Didn't, because I didn't have consciousness around it.

There's a reason why, even though I'm willing to work with an atheist, atheist, I have yet to work with an atheist, right, right? Because they generally don't have the consciousness about it being wrong, right? Only what I found so far is only guys of faith have a consciousness of it being wrong. Wow. But, but isn't it like scientifically, it says that it's, it's just not beneficial? But, guess, I guess not wrong. Yeah, yeah. It's not wrong morally. It's, it's morally. So, actually, this is the advice I got. This was from a lawyer, uh, that, um, out in western Canada, spoke to me specifically around like legislation and advocating for legislation. He basically was like, "I don't think you're going to win it on the, the moral or spiritual level." Yes. Because if you go, we're an immoral as a society. We're an immoral society, right? So, when you're like, "Morally, this is wrong," they're going to be like, "Who's this guy? I don't care." Yeah, yeah. So, they don't care. They just generally just don't care, right? He says, "But where you can win it is on the level of health." Tell them that this is why, and this is the truth. Not just telling them that, but tell them that their erectile dysfunction is largely due to their corn use, yeah? Their inability to perform well in the bedroom, all right, is due to overuse, yeah? Right. Um, and that's a huge trigger for guys to get like, "Oh, yeah, we need to fix that." I, what? Okay, hold on a sec. Hold on a sec. Let me, let me take a listen to this guy. All right. Yeah. Right. Totally.

So, so, from an advocacy to a, to the larger population, yeah, right, uh, we're really going to just go with the health conversation, right, right? Okay. Um, but for the thing is, the thing is, like, I, I generally can't help myself but getting into the God conversation. And I see it as a beautiful bridge preaching program. Oh, totally. This is what I see. I see my role as bridge preaching to God. And I don't, because we're an interfaith men's ministry, I don't necessarily, like, here, this is a, you know, we're devotees. We're talking a devotee podcast. So, we're like, right? You know, but when I'm, oh, so when people follow me on Instagram and stuff like that, they might not see, so, like, a devotee, per se, right, right? Uh, they'll see, like, I wear the cross. They'll see I wear this. They'll see I talk about Christ. They'll see I talk about Buddha, because we're in an interfaith men's ministry. And my, I see my role as using illicit sex as the hook into deeper consciousness. And then once they come to deeper consciousness, then I, like, I feel like, like handing off the football in a way. Like, I hand off to the outlet that makes sense for them. So, for some guys, it might be going back to, like, their Christian faith, yes. For some guys, it might be going to temple. For some guys, it might be going to mosque. And we have guys in all faiths right now, and we all get along, and we all learn from each other inside of our group because it's, yeah, we're like, cool. We, and we all like, we, we all just recognize like, God is God. And, uh, most people that I've talked to of different faiths, there's always in every faith, I've, I've seen that there is like, kind of like people that are quite like, "Our way or the highway. This is it. Don't talk to anyone outside." And then there's like maybe more universal kind of mind, which they see the different degrees or variations, yeah?

Um, I think we've, we've established why it's bad, why people do it, why the people are getting triggered by to do it, statistically that it's an issue that's widespread. Let's talk specifically about when someone realizes or identifies they have a certain trigger and then it's triggered to watch it and to act on it, per se. Uh, how do we deal with that? What's the first step of like retaining it and stopping the urge to watch it? Yeah, great question. So, first step is, it's like Alcoholics Anonymous. I think it's their first, first step in their 12-step program, yes, is admitting. Admitting, yeah, you have an issue. You have an issue. You have to admit it. It pretty much, nothing can happen after that, right? Like, like, nothing happens until that step happens, right? And, and specifically, does that mean admitting it to someone else, or just admitting it to yourself? Because admitting it to yourself, I don't think is the same as like opening up and telling someone else about it. Yeah, that's true. I think there's a distinction there. I think that, well, first, you have to at least admit it to yourself. At bare minimum, you have to kind of, kind of like face the, face the reality, right? That was for me with marijuana, as well as with chronography, and just overall like obsession around, uh, around sexuality, right? Which is just like, this is an issue. And it was like, the first time I remember saying, "This is an issue," around like my marijuana habit, it was like, I like started like crying because the first time, like, I get emotional now because I actually had to admit that I have a problem. It's vulnerability. And as men, we don't like that. Like, masculinity, man, you know, right? It's like, that's not masculinity, dude. Masculinity is strength. And vulnerability is being strength, which means, yes, admit, like, we all need help in certain areas. It's all good, right? So, yeah, I think, I think the first thing is, admit it to yourself. Then the second, so we'll go one, A, admit it to yourself. Okay. If you've done that, one, B, admit it to somebody else. And if you're like, "Who do I admit it to?" You can connect with me. Many guys have admitted it for the first time to me, or have said, and I, and I've had guys tell me, like, "Nula, I'm about to tell you things nobody knows." Yes. "I've paid for it. I've gone and seen prostitutes. I've seen hookers. I go to the strip club by myself when no one knows." Like, right? So, I've had tons of guys like admit all kinds of things. I've had, I've had gay devotees come out to me for the first time. Wow. They're like, "I don't know who else to tell, but I feel like I can tell you." I'm like, "Bro, I've heard it all, man. There's nothing that surprises me." Wow. I shouldn't say true, cuz sometimes until you get the next thing that surprises you, like, "Whoa, really? Damn, man." All right. All good. But, like, you know, it's whatever it is, it's all good, right?

So, yeah, one, A, admit it. One, B, admit it to somebody else. Um, two, stop. Right now. That's kind of, uh, like, bad advice, but in one way, it's like, this is the most simplistic thing. Stop it. And then what you'll see is how much does it have a grip on you? Yes. So, stop it. And then, "Oh my gosh, like, I, I'm struggling with this," or blah, blah, blah. Okay, cool. Now get help. So, step three, get help. And so, you can come to me. We have a 30-day porn-free, uh, challenge. It's been awesome, like, tremendous. So, 30 days is enough for someone to maybe, like, loosen the grip on the, on the thing. Okay. Okay. Yeah. I'd say loosen the grip. So, what, what happens is, for 30 days, you get a video a day. They're like, two to five-minute long videos, right? Okay. And they're specifically designed to one, build awareness around the trigger. So, for me, I'm alone. Yes. Yes, right? I'm aroused. Uh, I'm actually desiring connection, but I don't know where to get it. So, I'm just going to the computer because I'm lazy. Because everything to this age is lazy. Like, I call chronography the fast food of s3x, right? Cuz to have s3x, like, you know, maybe you have to set up date night. I know what you're talking about. Yeah, yeah. You're like, you got to be nice that day. At least at least that day, you know, you're like, "I really want something tonight." So, all of a sudden, you're like, "Hey, babe, looking good tonight. Looking good today." You're like, and she already knows, cuz women are way more too. Oh, he wants some, right, right, right. He's being nice to me today. Okay. This is so funny that we're having this conversation. Devotees, devotees watching this, going to be cringing in some sort of way, but like, everyone is talking about this behind closed doors. Everyone's doing it. Like, there's no secret here. Like, let's, let's be real for a second, yeah? Tell what, like, come on. Everybody knows, right? This is, and again, the more that you could talk about it in a, we're not talking talking about it in a derogatory way. We're not being open about it. We're just being truthful, right? Like, you just, like, look, like, you know, it's like, all right, babe. All of a sudden, you're like, "Hey, you look good today. You know, I'll take care of the dishes today." She already knows, cuz she's way more. We're men. We're blunt instruments. We're just like, uh, yeah, you know, pick things up, put them down. I want it tonight. Let's, right, right. She's way more in tune with, with, she's probably more in tune with, with how you as a man are than you are yourself, right? And so, um, uh, so, so, yeah, so you have to, so the first thing is building awareness of what triggers you. So, again, uh, does every, does everyone have a trigger? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, that's like, across the bo, yeah. I, yeah, I have yet to meet a person who's just doesn't like, something triggers it. Something triggers it. Something, like, and it's generally subconscious. You might not even realize. Like, I didn't even realize it was me being alone, right? Like, it didn't, until I started doing the inner reflection. So, that's what these videos do. So, basically, you get 30 videos. There's a workbook that goes along with it, and then there's a tracking sheet, which is set up like a scorecard, okay? So, it gives you a score of how you're doing, which is a motivation tool, cuz once you start hitting the score, you're like, "Oh, I don't want to." Cuz you see 100%, 100%, 100%. You're like, "Hey, I don't want to. I don't want to do that." Now, we've had guys, like, we just had a guy come through the 30-day porn-free challenge. He did 78% was his score. That is actually really good from where he started. So, we celebrate progress over perfection until we hit perfection, yes, right? So, it's like, "Okay, great. Now what?" He's done. He's, he's doing it again. And I'm like, "Great. Now let's do it again. This time, 78% is our low bar, yes, right?" And, and so, so it's designed to build awareness around what are the triggers, why do I do it? There are some forgiveness exercises around this. This is so important as part of the process. I'm like talking like, like, exclaim, like, huge point here, as part of the process. Oh, that's huge. Forgiveness for yourself. For yourself, yes. Forgive it. Let it go. Like, I see guys way too hard on themselves. Like, like, just so extreme. Like, they're like, again, like, they mess up and they're like, "Oh my gosh, I've lost all Krishna's mercy." And, and I mean, I'm like, "You know how loving God is?" Someone, someone told you that? They say that? Oh, yeah, yeah. "Oh my gosh, yeah, like I've, you know, like, damn to hell." You know, like, "I was like, who?" You got some real, like, hardcore, whoever's been preaching to you is like, just like, fear of God, right? Like, you know, right? Which some preachers are like that, right? It's like, all condemnation, you know? Um, and know you were saying how merciful God is, or how compassionate God is. Is the name of Krishna, Karuna Sindhu, an ocean of mercy? Yeah. An ocean. You know how big, freaking ocean is, of mercy, of compassion, compassion? Like, and, and think about, like, the gurus, right? Like, think about, like, I know who your guru is, and my guru, like, these are some of the most loving souls that I've ever met, right? I have a friend who's a pastor. He's like, one of the most loving souls. Like, I was like, these are like, so if they represent God on Earth, yes, like, look how compassionate they are. Look how loving. Now, that doesn't mean you take advantage. And I understand that's why it's like, cuz the, cuz the material mind is like, just like a little bugger, right? Like, just so sneaky, just, just real devilish, right? Like, "Oh, he's super compassionate. I'm just totally going to take." And then he'll give. That's not the mood. That's not the spirit of it. I'm glad you mentioned that. Yeah, yeah. The spirit is, I must be responsible for myself, and I must genuinely and sincerely want to clean up and really clean up, really become loving. And part of that is, we need to forgive. We need to forgive ourselves. And there's probably needs to be some R, uh, integrity restored. Some places for some guys. That means, hey, you need to have a serious conversation with your wife. That's going to be super uncomfortable, right? You need to, you know, maybe, like, you know, say sorry. You know, something that I did is, I sent a, a letter, um, to an ex-girlfriend, 20, 15, 20 years later. I, sounds weird. I tracked her down. I said, I sent an old high school friend and said, I said, "Do you know?" I don't want to mention names, so I'm purposely trying not to say names. "Hey, are you still in contact with, with, with her?" She, "Yeah, I am." I'm like, "Oh my goodness, amazing. Do you have, like, her email or something?" She, "Yeah, I just got an email." So, I sent an email. And I didn't think she would even reply. And I said to her, "Look," I think the title of the email was like, "Long Overdue." And I said, "Look, I want to, um, really apologize for, like, you know, I was unfaithful, right? And, uh, I want to apologize for being unfaithful, and I want to, um, you know, own that. And I want to own the fact that when you confronted about me, I wasn't man enough to admit it. I just, like, no, no, no. Just an idiot, right?" And blah, blah, blah. So, I wrote her this letter. So, I sent it to her. And, you know, I just never thought I would even hear from her, type of thing. And like, two days later, like, "Oh," cuz I left her my WhatsApp number. Like, I said, "If you happen to connect or whatever, like, you know, like, you can reply, you can not reply, uh, or you could send me a text if that's easier." Yeah. But if I never hear from you, that's also cool. I just, I just felt like I wanted to actually acknowledge that. Like, a couple days later, I get a WhatsApp that message from her. She's like, "Hey, it's so and so." And I'm like, "Oh my gosh." I was like, "Hey." So, I drop her voice. Hey. She's like, "Yeah, I got your email." She's like, "I, I actually took a few days because I kind of didn't know even what to say." She's like, "Quite honestly, like, like, I don't think about it. Like, that was so long ago, right?" And I'm like, and I said them, I'm like, "You probably don't." Like, "I would hope I would hope that you have moved on and life is well for you." And blah, blah, right? Anyways, and she forgave me, right? Like, right? Like, like, and I was just like, I felt like it was such a mercy. I felt like God just like released me from something that I was carrying in my subconscious, yes, for 20 years. This guilt, this kind of like, cuz I knew that was on me. That was all me, yeah. And it was like, yo, and I felt so light after. Wow. And, you know, what's interesting, my weed addiction started after me and her broke up. And I, and after tracing it back and doing some more reflection, I recognized that I used marijuana to cover up the pain of that breakup that I never really dealt with. So, that's what I mean about restoring integrity and forgiveness. It's like, let's do the work that's tough for the heart, but so cleansing. Yes. Like, do you know how light I felt after that? Like, I was like, free. Like, "Oh, people want freedom." I just got freedom, man. I know what freedom is on a whole different level now, because I asked for forgiveness, by the grace of God, through her, I received that forgiveness, yeah. And I'm good. Wow. And I'm good. Like, I feel like my consciousness is clear. Like, I'm good. Like, if I was to pass tomorrow, I would feel light. Like, I'm good. I got nothing. I got nothing that is in my heart that I know of, you know? I'm not saying there's not stuff there. There's always stuff I'm sure to work on. But the reason that, like, I just find like life so good these days is cuz I feel like forgiven. Like mercy. And so, this is a huge part of it. And so, I feel like guys need to forgive themselves. Know that they're forgiven. Know that God loves you unconditionally. He just, he loves you so much. He, and just like a loving father wants you to do well, the only reason he's course-correcting you or giving you some tough karma is because he's like, trying to straighten you out, yeah? So, just surrender and just straighten out and watch life go. And I'm not talking about life next life, or I'm talking this life. Watch, watch stuff start working out for you, yeah? Like, watch stuff start straightening out for you because your vibration, your energy is more pure, right?

So, a part of that is forgiveness. Then the second aspect of that is developing willpower. So, mental exercises to literally develop willpower. Oh, wow. Okay. So, like, how do we develop willpower, right? So, as devotees, munch meditation, um, is an amazing way. But there are other things that we can do to develop willpower. One great thing that we can do, which is largely not encouraged within the devotee community, so I apologize, right? But is working out. Um, I find that just working out has been a great outlet for my own energy and really, you think it's not encouraged? Uh, yeah, at least that was the experience that I had, right? Yeah, like it's not like really, like, you don't want to put too much emphasis on the body, right? So, you don't want to be working out. But to me, it's the spirit of why you're working out. I understand. I understand from the perspective of like, "I just want to be ripped so I can like, you know, attract women." Attract women, or, yeah. No, that's not why we're working out. The spirit behind it is, though, for me, I started working out and I found it to be really great because, what, first of all, it's just increased my energy levels. It's increased my overall vitality and the amount that I can be of service. It's really helped clear brain fog and these types of things, along with retention and such. But I also find it just a great outlet. Like, I'll tell you, by 9 o'clock, I'm beat. By 9:30, I'm like, "Okay, man, like, I want to go to bed." Especially after, like, leg day. Anybody who works out, does leg day, you know, like, "Oh my gosh, leg day." Worst squats. Yeah. I was like, "Yo, listen, I don't want it." Not because I don't want it, I don't want it because I'm beat tired. So, I always, and I've done it where I've been like, really, like, you know, I'm, you know, I'm ready to go here, right? And, you know, and my wife may be sick, or, you know, she's right. And I'm like, "Okay, now I used to like, that's where like back in the day, I'd feel, I'd be more pressured, like, like, come on, like, you know, like, right?" And I don't, don't want to be that way anymore. Like, like, right? I'm like, "Oh, you know what? No problem. I'm going to the gym." I just put in a second workout, or like, you know, I go for a walk. Just, just dissipate that, right, right? So, yeah, so strengthening willpower, building awareness around the triggers, forgiveness, um, then sustainability, meaning after the 30 days, how does this become a sustainable lifestyle, right? Um, and like, how do, how do you now do it beyond the 30 days, right? Interesting. And then, and then we talk about rewiring, because again, you can't just white-knuckle it, because white-knuckling it is a form of suppression. It's just like, "I'm just not going to do it. I'm not going to do it." "Oh, I do it." "I'm not going to do it." "I'm not going to do it." "Oh, I do it." And then every time you do it, you're actually setting up this new pathway in which you're building lower, lower self-esteem because now you're saying, "I'm going to do something," and then you don't do it, and now you feel like, "Now I'm failing. Now I'm failing." And that's even worse because now you're, you're setting a new neural pathway that says, "I don't accomplish my goals." Yes. And what you want is a pathway that says, "I accomplish what I say I want." High levels of integrity is, I and my word are one, yes. So, if I say I'm going to do something, I do it, yes. That's what it's all about. I love that. Yeah. That's to me, the, the biggest thing. So, so when you and your word are one, when your heart, your thoughts, your actions, and word are all one, you are like, you are like, whatever you do in the world, it will be successful, and you will, you will embody so many good qualities, right? And it's all comes from integrity, having a strong, high standard of integrity. And that's the main thing that we do with our guys. So, I call us a positive program, meaning, so other programs, what, what makes us different than many other programs that are out there is that, um, they focus on the negative part of it. I say the negative, not negative in like a bad way, negative in like what you're not going to do. So, I call it a negation goal. So, it's like, "I'm not going to watch corn. I'm not going to, you know, self-pleasure." Okay, that's good. It's not bad to have those things, but more importantly, what are you going to do? Yes, right? It's working out. And, yeah, all that stuff. That's right. It's more important actually to focus on what you're going to do, because we know to overtake a lower habit, you take, you overtake it with a higher habit, yes. So, right? Maybe you're not at the point where you can sit there and chant 64 rounds as your higher habit. So, you're like, "Okay, I can't do that." Okay, but what can you do? Well, if you can go from watching corn and replacing that with working out, that's a good move, yeah? And then if you can continue to stack this, and the beauty is, is once you figure out how to do this, you can do this with any area of your life. That's the beauty. It's a foundational training, because what happens is, what happens is, guys start straightening out one area, and everything is, everything is interconnected, right? So, all of a sudden, now they start making, because they have better willpower here, now they have better willpower in their finances. Now they're like, "Yeah, I'm actually, uh, saving more than I've ever saved before." I'm like, "Yeah, because that only flance chick isn't getting paid from you anymore." One, right? Or all that time, attention, energy is going into better things. But simply because you can, you can think long-term, you can retain well, now you can retain finances better. Oh, I've got a better savings account. In fact, I'm investing now. Oh, great. Wow, right? Uh, my health is improved. I'm eating better. I'm not bringing the second plate out. I'm good with one plate, right? Why? Because you're more sense-controlled, right? So, you got to rewire your brain, yeah?

It's for maybe 1.1% of the population. 1% of the population. The rare guy, he's gonna say, "I'm done," and he's done. Great. And maybe he's just got so many good impressions that that's all he needed. Great. That's fantastic. If you can do that, just stop and move on with life. I was just going to say that there's levels to this thing. And that even if someone is functioning on a really much higher level where it's like, "Oh, they only have like, they only want to tweak this much," and then they feel like they're in a comfortable place. There's also someone who is, is really on the lower level, like, "Oh, I'm like, super addicted and like, I, I just can't control it," blah, blah. There's, like, you, there's stuff for both of those people, and everybody in between as well, right? Yeah. So, we have, we have levels of support and levels of training depending where somebody's at, okay, right? So, basically, we have like our original program, which is the sexual alchemy training, right? And that's a six-month training course. And that's for guys who want to learn to transmute that energy, bring it up into the higher centers. They want to learn the breathwork exercises and the practices of actually drawing that energy up and circulating it, and how to use that energy to, um, uh, unleash their creative potentials, magnetism, articulation, all of that good stuff. Wow. How to do that? I love that. Yeah, that's like the higher level stuff. Um, I work with a lot of business owners. I work with like plastic surgeons. I work with like really high-level guys. Uh, I've trained some politicians. I've trained some congregational leaders, all on transmutation. Then there's like, like, uh, and then there's like, the, the guy who's like, "I'm really, I'm, I'm at the stage of like chronography and like wanting to like, I just, I'm, I'm addicted to to corn and I need help there." It's just like a young guy who's maybe in school or something, and you know, hasn't gone into the career yet, just like getting into things, things, yeah, that type of thing, yeah. Um, and sometimes it's not a young guy, sometimes it's an older guy, but that's just his starting point, right, right? It's just like, it's just where they're starting at from, from a level of, let's say, um, s3x mastery, which is, and which we have like a progression ladder. So, I'd say like, the first rung is like, by yourself, alone with a screen, yes. That's the lowest rung on the ladder, yes. Yeah. So, I've even told guys, I would rather have you go wank it, but not to corn, right? So, we'll start with that with some guys, like, we'll start right there, be like, "Okay, look, no, you're just cutting it right now. All we're working on is no corn." Yes. You feel the urge, do it. Do it. In fact, I would prefer you do that, because if the urge is going to get you to watch corn, I would rather have you do that, because there's at least some power of imagination, there's at least some, like, you know, some something that's not an external force that's controlling you, it's an internal. You can, right? Then we get to like, okay, then we teach like non-ejaculatory self-pleasure, right? Which is like the progression that I used, which was like, "Okay, I can give that up, but man, I still got the urge to like, self-pleasure." All right, so here is how to self-pleasure, but without, uh, without the ejaculation. So, this way, you start to actually retrain your brain of that, "Oh, s3x energy doesn't necessarily mean I have to have an ejaculation." I can retrain that. And then during those practices, you start to learn to draw energy up in an aroused state. And then you go to no self-pleasure, no corn, no self-pleasure, only through love making, only in intimacy, right, right? And only in intimacy in a committed relationship, yeah? I love that. There's gradation to that, because there's pro, there's, I'm, I'm sure you get flak from Edie's devotees for like, the self, like, you're teaching that without ejacul, ejaculation? Yeah, yeah. Non-ejaculatory s3x, non-ejaculatory orgasms is generally where the flak comes in, yeah?

Um, but, uh, and I can, I understand the perspective of why they would be like, "Well, why would you teach that?" D, du. But again, take into context, if a guy is watching corn and he is addicted to this, this is a step up, not a step down. Now, if you're already above that, great. You don't need that. So, we don't teach you that, right? Like, right? It's like, you still have to be responsible for your own journey, right? Like, you know, so I get, I understand from, and, and generally the flak just comes from people, what I've noticed, it's just people who see headlines and little clips and then they have a knee-jerk reaction, mhm, right? And then they make up their mind about something without really fully understanding, right? And that's fine. Look, I'm not here for everybody. I'm here to, for those who need my help, I'm here and available. And if you don't need my help or think what I do is dumb or crazy, then all power to you, and we can still, we can still, uh, cooperate in other services and ways, right? Because unity and diversity, and there's, you know, something for everybody. In the way, I do want to underscore that all men, or most men, will have to deal with this sometime in their life. And that there is a resource in Nula Do for wherever you are in your journey in in trying to either control this, transmute it, uh, develop more integrity in your life, or whatever, even creating a business, or like, there's all this, like, this is all connected, yes, yes. Like, people need to understand this is all connected. Yes. Krishna, you know, the, the Sean retention, the corn, everything, everything is connected. And, and, and specifically for men, because you only deal with men. We're a men's ministry. And, and, and that's because, um, uh, the, I'm like, so first of all, we have to admit, you know, that there's a difference between a man and a woman, right, right, right? That's a whole other conversation. That's, yeah, we'll save that for another time. But we, we have to first admit that, and, and be real about that, and recognize that, um, uh, while women can transmute their energy and everything as well, because I do get women, and women devotees have reached out to me, I said, "Do you do anything for women?" And, right? I said, "I don't right now." Um, if a woman was to, if a woman was, um, interested in doing this work, I would be happy to teach her the process in which then she could recreate the training for women. Oh, interesting. And, and so, you know, that's a potential. But, but I think it's right that I, as a man, teach women, yeah, about their s3x energy, because I have no personal, I can't tell you personally the experience of it. And because I teach so much from my personal experience, I'm like, "I just don't think I would be effective." I can, I can mechanically tell you what to do and what not to do, but I think what makes a great teacher is not that they just know the mechanics, but that they live it, and they can talk about it from very practical, experiential things. Mhm, right? And so, I believe that, uh, uh, yeah, so that's, I only work with men. And I also noticed that like, like, you know, men just like women need time with other women to chat about the way that men interact is different than the way women interact. Our psychologies are different. The way we talk to and relate to each other are different, right? So, men also just need time to be with other guys and just have like that bro time and just to talk about men's stuff, yeah, right? And, and so, yeah, I think it's, it's important to keep it just as a men's ministry, um, but, yeah, if a woman out there was interested in actually facilitating this type of work, we are open to the idea of a woman learning the practices and then recreating it, but she'd have to be super dedicated. Like, it would have to be something she was really, really like, wanting to do as a serious endeavor.

I'm, I'm sure that some devotees have a concern about, uh, confidentiality and privacy and things. Is there something that you can speak to to that point? Yeah, there's some people that have worked with me, and you'll never know. And, you know, because they've said, "Nula, I don't want anybody knowing I'm doing this." Great. They don't have to participate in the groups or anything like that. So, we have a group, you know, where all my students are, but I have guys not in that group that work with me, and they only talk to me, and that's it. So, yeah, it's, uh, um, like, like, uh, no one will ever, no one will ever know if you don't want them to know. And, you know, rightfully so, like, some guys have come and through our program, which are leaders, and they're like, "I need some help around this, but it will ruin my reputation. I will be judged for it. I will be," and I just don't want to deal with that. I really like to just deal with this, and if I can without having to go through some public shaming or something like this, right? I'm like, "Totally get it." Other other guys are dealing with, I mean, if their, if their habit continues, like, you know, they run massive, they run massive businesses, and have they have a lot on the line, like, and I just think, like, we all know the big, big names, like Tiger Woods or Bill Clinton, you know, right? Like, these guys who have, um, you know, somewhat tarnished or ruined their reputation because, you know, of a bad, a bad choice one night, yeah, right? You know, and it's like, man, I always said, like, man, if I had, if I had Bill Clinton, you know, you know, he might have a different rep, you know, right? Because, right, if, if Arnold, if I could have just talked to Tiger Woods a little bit before and just shown him a little bit of breathwork, you know, it could have been a whole different story, you know? He could have had some more trophies on his wall instead of, like, lawsuits or whatever, you know, how much ever he's got to pay out or whatever, right? So, anyways, you know, just, um, so I, I totally understand that, that, you know, confidentiality is important. Now, I also challenge guys to be open about it, yeah, right? I, I will never force it. It's always our students. It's always up to you what you do and don't do, yes. We give you the tools, and I will tell you everything that I believe will be in your best interest, but at the end of the day, it's always up to you to take the information and then do what you will with it, right? And take the knowledge and do what you will. Um, but I do encourage guys to be open because I said, like, a lot of you will inspire a lot of guys if you were just open with it. Like, the fact, like, I love the fact that you're doing this, and I love, and I told you this about your podcast, like, I love, like, that you have, like, you know, like, you had, um, uh, you had from the Mark, like, line, right? I love that you had that guy on, right? He was like, "Oh, that's awesome. Why, why not?" Right? "Why are we not talking to, to, to folks, especially within the Veda of a community?" Right? "Why are we not having?" I've always said, you know, "Would be awesome if, if, um, you know, if, um, you know, like, some of the, the, the leaders, I'll just say, you won't say names, but if some of the big leaders who are known to not get along would actually come together in a forum like this, yes. Why don't we get some of them on the Namara show and have a conversation?" And you could facilitate. You're the perfect guy to facilitate it, right? I, I said, I actually said to, to a guy, I said, "Yeah, I'm doing this." But he's like, "Oh, what's this podcast all about?" I'm like, "Well, it's like, he's a devotee, the Hari Krishna devotee, and, you know, it's mainly a devotee, but anybody can listen to it, you know, podcast." He's, "Oh, check it out and such." I said, "I said, so he's the Joe Rogan of the Hari Krishna community." I said, "And one thing I like about Joe Rogan is that he talks to everybody." Because it's not about this or that. He's like, "He'll talk to every." It's about human to human, and we're just having a conversation. That's what Joe Rogan said. He's like, "The ish to Dave of the podcasters." You know, like, so my respect to, to Joe Shan, Joe Rogan. But one of the things that really, you know, stands out about him is he always says, like, even with this Kamala Harris and Trump thing, like, he he wanted Kamala to come on, and he was, he was saying, "I'm not going to give her a hard question. I just want to talk human to human. We'll just have a conversation." But, you know, I guess they didn't want, they weren't ready to do that. But from his side, he just wanted to do that, which I really appreciate that. And I try to imbibe that same quality that he has, that I just want to talk to another human, yeah, yeah. I love it. I think it's so good. And I love these long-form discussions because you can actually talk about things, and you, we can go on tangents, and you can get to know somebody at a deeper level, right? You can actually get to know somebody as opposed to, like, I saw a clip on Facebook where he was talking about non-ejaculatory sex. Oh my gosh, right? And it's like, like, dude, if you're like, if you think you can get to know someone off of 30-second or minute shorts or reels, yeah, like you can't. Yes. I put tons of shorts and reels and stuff out because we have to get our message out there, right? But like, you know, imagine if people just chalked up the Hari Krishna community to one thing, like, and people do, and it happens, right? People do. They're like, "I went to a temple, someone was rude to me." "Oh, my, oh my goodness." Well, sorry, like, you know, I think I tell, I don't know if you remember, I think I tell the story of like, so I was going to Bhakti Sastri, and this was when I was like, just brand new and just like, didn't know anything. And I still, you know, I still say I'm brand new, 10 years later, I'm still brand new, right? And I'm like, and this lady was like, she was definitely being rude to me, but like, her insult was like, like, "Oh, you're so into sense pleasure," or something. That's how she was trying to insult me. And I only, right? And because I didn't really understand what she was saying, I just said, "Thank you." I knew she was being rude, but I didn't get it, cuz I didn't, I didn't know devotee lingo. I didn't know sense pleasure's bad. She's like, "You're so into sense pleasure." And I was like, "Thank you." Oh my God. And I'm like, "Oh, that's what she was trying to say." I'm like, "Well, yeah." H, like, "Who is it, who isn't?" I was like, "Well, like, I didn't know." I didn't even know. Again, I just told you what a good night was. It was going to the casino and going to the strip club. And now I'm like, "I'm at least I'm here." Yeah, yeah. Like, it's, again, it's like, we fault people for, for like, like, they come into the temple, then we fault them for not being like, pure. Yeah. And it's like, "You've been in the temple three times, why aren't you a saint already?" It's like, "I don't even know what this guy's name is, right?" Say it right, you know? It's like, "Oh my God, right?" So, it's like, you know, I love what you do, man. I, bro, I love what you do. You are so cool. I, you know, I feel like I was telling Tuls yesterday, I was like, "I'm really drawn to the coola. There's something about you that's like, really drawing me to you." And, and I'm so glad we did this podcast. I mean, we've, we've gone two hours and 17 minutes now, right? Oh my goodness. This is a long one. But, um, this has to be one of my top five favorites, I think. Yeah. Thank you, man. Um, is there anything you want to, so for audience listening, if you've listened this far, uh, we're, we're still with us. If you're still with us, we're going to put all of, uh, Nula Do's links in the description so you can get in contact with him. If you're interested in in the work he does, uh, is there anything you want to impart with, uh, for our audience? Yeah, yeah. I, I, I didn't answer the question about Dr. Flat's work. So, what I'll do quickly is just say this. The seminal fluid, the spinal fluid, yes, and the brain tissues are generally made out of the same chemical compounds. So, the idea of the semen flowing upwards is backed up by Dr. Flat's work in modern science, which says that actually, there's a fight between, I call it the fight between your balls and your brain, right? And that fight isn't just a psychological fight. It isn't just like, "Oh, you know, watch it, don't watch it," you know, like, kind of the angel and devil kind of like, do it, don't do it, right? That we all face. It's actually a resource battle. So, the more someone's depleting themselves, your resources have to stay in your lower centers and base. Um, one thing that guys experience when they are, um, self-pleasuring a lot and such, is lower back pain. So, they'll often complain, like, "My back, my back, my lower back." Right? And that could be, it's not, this is not the only reason. So, just in case any women who are watching, like, like, next to your husband's like, "Oh, my back is," "Oh, I knew it." Like, "Don't come to me." Don't, like, no. There could be many reasons someone has lower back pain. But one thing is like, lower back pain, and what we've noticed in guys that start to clean up in that regards and they start to get away from that, is that they start reporting, like, "Oh, you know what? Actually, my back feels a lot better. I'm more mobile. I have better, like, spinal function and such. I just feel better all around." Yeah. And so, as that travels upwards, it, it takes on, it kind of shifts a little bit, and it replenishes the spinal fluid, which allows your energy then to flow upwards easier, allowing you to tap into the higher energy centers. And then when it reaches the brain, it actually starts to redistribute and nourish your brain, which actually makes your, like, your ability to just have sharper memory, deeper focus, your synapses, your firing off of neurons goes quicker, so you can retain information, you're more witty, you're a little bit more charisma because you can just, like, you know, you're like, you're sharp, you're really sharp, right? And you actually need to be sharp for higher spiritual growth and understanding, yes, right? And I know Prud, Prud has done a lecture or something around this. Totally, yeah, yeah. This is all, this is all along the same lines as what we read in the Shrimad Bhagavatam, right? Yeah. So, yeah, yeah. Nothing I'm saying is, is off-script, not at all, okay? Yeah, right. So, it's like, it's like, uh, you're sharper, and you actually need that sharpness for higher spiritual knowledge. So, here's, here's a tough pill to swallow for any devotee, is that this is why you have to deal with this as an issue, because if you don't, you're in a way, you're kind of, let me, how do I say this in, in, in a, in a way that I want it to be felt in the right spirit, you're not giving yourself the best opportunity to really connect or understand what it is you're reading at a deeper level, yeah? And you're kind of kidding yourself if you think, "I can be doing this, but because I'm reading and chanting, that it's not affecting," yes, your ability to read and chant. Totally, because you'll know your potency gives you better quality meditations and practices. Totally, yeah. So, anyways, I just wanted to, because I did want to make sure that I looped and ended that loop. Love that. Love that. That's a really great conclusion. I think. Thanks. Yeah. And I guess I don't really have anything else to say. Reach out to me. Connect with me if it resonates. I'm here to help. And if I can help you, I got a ton of cool people in my network that I can direct you to. And, uh, once again, man, I love what you do. I appreciate it. You so much. Thank you so much, Nadas. Uh, I, I absolutely admire you. This is super awesome. Uh, again, I'll put the stuff in the description how you can get in contact with him. Please like, subscribe, and comment. If you like this podcast, please share it with your friend, but you'll probably get judged for it. Uh, uh, but this was an awesome conversation. Super open. I love that so much. We need to have more conversations around these things, as I always say, not less conversations, because it's just more conversations is just more healthy, I think. But have a good night, everyone. Hari Krishna. Thank you. Thanks again. Haroo. [Music] [Music] Body.