How MJ Went 70/70 Breeding Chondros In 2025 | Kush's Korner Live

T-minus 30 seconds.

T-minus 20 seconds.

10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.

Good morning, everybody. Happy early Thanksgiving and welcome back to another episode of Kush's Corner on the Trap Talk Reptile Network, the coolest reptile network in the world. Uh, MJ is back with me today for another episode. We're going to be talking about, uh, primarily his condo breeding success, the 2025 season. Definitely touch on the emerald litter, other stuff as well. Um, you know, honestly, from my standpoint, that's he had essentially like the dream season you could hope for with breeding pythons, and you know, something that I definitely want to be able to get to myself. So, I'm very interested to get to, uh, pick his brain on everything that he did.

Before we get into that, as always, US Arc. So, US Arc is the organization that is fighting for our rights to keep our reptiles, to run our reptile businesses, and to live this lifestyle. Check out usarchc.org for all of the information you need to know about the organization. That website is also where you can find alerts on any pieces of legislation introduced at either local levels or the national level as well as updates on any legislation as well. USarch.org is also where you can become a member of the organization. As a community, we have strengthened numbers, and the more people that are behind the cause, the better.

And here we are. Thank you to everybody who has tuned in live. Uh, definitely a bit of a, a bit of a different timing right now, about nine hours earlier in the day. So, hopefully, everyone who wanted to listen found it. Uh, thank you, everyone who's already here in the live chats. If you are here on YouTube, please subscribe to the YouTube channel. New podcasts come out every single day of the week here on the Trap Talk Reptile Network from some of the best hosts in the game talking about a wide variety of topics from within the reptile industry. So, if you are a reptile podcast fan, you have come to the right place. We are also on all the audio platforms, be that Spotify, Apple Podcast, Google Play, wherever you get your podcast from, you can find the Trap Talk Reptile Network. A follow and a five-star review on any of those platforms would be most appreciated.

With that housekeeping out of the way, let's bring MJ on to the show.

Yeah, here we are. Here we are.

Hey, hey, what an intro.

Thank you.

You're good.

Really?

Yeah, dude. You've gotten really good. Uh, like, uh, first and foremost, honor to be here. Uh, I love everything that you're doing on Wednesday nights. Um, and, you know, thanks for doing this morning for me. I appreciate it.

Hey, it's worked for me, too. So, I'm, I'm, I'm not complaining.

Yeah, dude. But honestly, man, like, I, one thing, one of the, I guess, pioneers in the podcasting game is NPR. I love the vibe those guys bring, and I feel like that's what you bring to the, that kind of vibe to this channel, to this network. Um, and what I mean by vibe is like, real passionate keepers. Like, you know, I get it. Breeding has been probably the bigger, um, I guess attractor for people coming into the hobby. But at the end of the day, when you have OGs like those guys who, you know, go to Australia still and PNG and and and then also just kind of put out amazing content behind their experience. Um, it's awesome, dude. It's good. And so on, I just want to say thank you for everything you've been doing, Kush, because it really helps bring the substance behind Trap Talk to full, to the full front. So, yeah, man. It, it's an honor to be here. Shout out to everyone in the chats. Happy Thanksgiving. Happy early Thanksgiving. I'm so thankful for everyone and everything out there, especially this hobby. It's the best hobby in the world. I wish I had a Trump impersonation like Kush, but I don't. So, I'm not gonna. But I, you, that's, I kind of had that energy when I said,

"Don't even try. I stay in my lane."

But, uh, yes, honestly, dude, stoked to be here. And, uh, yeah, man. Everything's been great. What a year has flown by, man. I can't believe that 2025 is already done. You know what I mean?

And here we are, man. My, is this my, is this my second Kush episode?

Yeah, it's your second one. It was honestly, I think right around the same time last year, too, when we did the first one. Maybe a little bit earlier in the year, but yeah, I really, I really appreciate those kind words. And, uh, definitely, you know, it probably, I guess it makes a lot of sense that I would have that kind of NPR vibe considering that they literally were what got me through high school. Um, every, if every Tuesday morning, just like downloading the podcast before I leave to go to the train to go to school. And, you know, so yeah, I guess that that makes perfect sense why that would kind of be, kind of be my vibe. Um, huge shout out to NPR, love those guys, great show.

Yeah, I mean, first of all, dude, time-proven breeder. What the hell?

Oh, the children.

Yeah, dude. Man, you know, it's been a year, Stephen. You know, obviously, you and I are really close friends and being that that we do podcasting together where we work close, but, you know, it's hard to kind of really share the experience. It's been like having this second newborn into our lives, which has been a blessing, but man, I'm such a guy of like rhythm and like scheduling. Like, I like to get into a flow of things. I like to stay there. Uh, but life's not, that's not life, dude. As much as we would like to get to a point where we could just have one schedule to stick to, it's not always that easy. And so, I'm learning that. And, uh, it's, it's been quite the adventure so far. You know, luckily, you know, I'm very blessed that my wife's recovered well. She's doing great. Shout out to my wife, Lily. Um, she's a, she is amazing, man. Like, you know, shout out to all the mothers out there, but I don't want to, maybe I'm being biased, but she's such a top-tier mother and like, just a, just a her commitment, you know what I mean? Couldn't be more proud for what Lily's doing, but man, it's a lot of work, dude. And, um, but man, I mean, there's, I, I'm sure you'll experience this someday, Stephen, but don't get in a rush to do it. Treat, please take your time. Um, but, you know, it's, it's so worth it, man. All this, all this, you know, sacrificing as far as like your time and, you know, what you like to do on your own, it's so worth it because there's no better time than having, having, you know, your own seat in front of you, dude. And it's like, you know, when there's little mini versions of yourself, it's just trips you out, dude. But yeah, I'm loving it, man. It's, it's awesome.

Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah. I can only imagine, you know, I, I always love spending time over there with you guys, kind of like, you know, getting to hang out with Leo. I'm excited to meet Enzo. It just, you know, to me, it's like, I, I can't imagine a more fulfilling thing to do in life. So, and, and I will say that, you know, as far as you and you, you and I go back, you know, and to me, it's far because I've been friends with you since I kind of started into all this. Well, even before Trap Talk was Trap Talk, you and I were friends. And so, you know, from the time where you and I met at that Super Show with Forest, which, like, I was, I, I remember being excited, bro. Like, I'm talking like in a nervous sense. Like, I remember the buildup of finally get to meet you and Forest was so high. I was like, cuz finally, you like, you got to understand, like, you guys were the first inspiration I had that wasn't music related or like anything related to like that was keeping me back here in San Diego. It was just all refreshing stuff, and I just felt like I had so much thanks because like, you, you know, you guys got me zoned into everything that you guys have been in. And and Stephen, like, you're not, you're not somebody who was created over the last five years, individual, and you weren't that individual when I met you. Like, you've been rooted into this game for a long time. And I almost, like, was like, that's kind of why I always looked up to you because I'm like, dude, look how, look how long someone like Stephen has been a part of this, and that was more important to them than anything else. And I feel like that's why I've always kind of held that respect for you. But, um, again, meeting you and Forest, bro, that's, that's why I always try to preach to people, go meet, go link up with these people. Like, if you are connected to someone on social media, that's great, but don't just rely on those relationships via social media. Like, dude, if they mean that much to you, link up with this person and see if that takes you anywhere else. And that, look what happened when you and I linked up. Yeah, bro, look at us now.

So much has happened, but like, we grew up together. Like, you and I, you know, we, we came up literally in this game together. And so, um, yeah, so you being at my house, and by the way, Stephen, for sure, priority number one, gets to stay at my pad whenever there's a gathering. And people ask me, MJ, can I crash your place? And then, of course, Brandon Wheeler gets the couch. But, yes, that's, that's it. You know, and, and, and having you around Leo, and then soon to be Enzo and the family, bro, and seeing you there, it just, really makes everything so wholesome. It's ridiculous, man. And so, yeah, going back to just how the people are just as important to the animals. It's so true. It's so true, dude. Because this is, this is a family to me, man. This is all one big family, and, and it's a lifestyle. The whole list of, like, you know, like, this is just amazing.

Yeah. I mean, you know, I, I've gotten into periods within like the hobby where I'm kind of like isolated a little bit, you know? I mean, that period where I wasn't doing podcasts for a couple of years. Yeah. It gets freaking lonely, man. I mean, you know, you still love the animals, but man, the, the, the joy and the fulfillment that you get from doing this just compounds when you have good friendships, and especially when you were able to see people in person. I mean, man, the weekends where it's like us, Marshall, Bill, Ryan, like, man, those are peak memories. Like, those, those times are there. I mean, that's, and the thing is, we don't even talk about reptiles most of the time.

No.

We're just chilling, hanging out. Like, I would say it's like 20% reptile talk, 80% just laughing at Ryan Young, you know, and, and Marshall and Bill. Like, just that, you know, just that group, you know, and, and again, like, we all know who those people were before we even got close to them. Like, we all looked up to those dudes, man. You know what I mean? And, and when you have someone that you look up to so much become your friends. And again, dude, like, remind, I just got to remember, we weren't that tight when I met you at Pomona. Like, we had, we had met, but we didn't know where things were really going to go. Yeah. Like, me and Forest had just started Unfiltered Reptiles podcast. I was a rocky individual. Forest, Forest, behind Forest, didn't tell me upfront how much like he was kind of worried about me, but behind the scenes, apparently, he really was. And so, you really didn't know where things were going to go at that time. It was so fresh and so brand new. And again, if you kind of just speed things up to now, like, none of us would have saw this coming, you know what I mean?

No.

Not like this. Definitely not. Maybe I, maybe I did. I don't know. I, I was kind of confident, but then again, like, you know, I did make things a little difficult at one point. And so, I even know there were times where I'm like, dude, you need to, you need to chill out in some areas because if not, you are going to lose a lot of good support out there. And so, um, and you hung, by the way, another more flowers I want to give. You always hung in there with me, Stephen. You never gave up on me, and you know, you do. I heard from others that you do talk good about me. Um, so, yeah, dude, again, like, that's another thing that doesn't happen a lot in this hobby. People talk good about other people behind their backs. Like, that's not a common thing. It's, it should be more common, but it's not. You know what I mean? And so, to have that, knowing that it's, it's a blessing too, cuz, you know, you know the fakeness is what I can't stand, bro. Like, you know how I am, Stephen, with fake people, and, and, and, you know, the fake people easily expose themselves after so many years of knowing them in this hobby, which you've, you've dealt with a lot of that. And,

Oh, for sure.

You're good at keeping it together, Stephen. Like, that's why I'm like, there's been times where I'm like, Stephen, you have to say something at this point. You know, you know, back in the day when, you know, dealing with certain people and whatnot. But, yeah, but, but again, like, we're in control of not having to deal with those people. Like, if certain people make you have to feel some type of way, just disconnect. That's all you have to do.

Yeah. And, you know, I'll extend that back to you. You know, you, you've been there for me the whole way, too. And there were moments where you could have been like, you know what, go fuck yourself. And here we are still. So, I definitely appreciate that. But, you know, yeah, as is with everything, but definitely is amplified in this hobby, like, that there's, you know, like the mob mentality, certain moments where people, like, it's cool to be hating on somebody or or whatever it may be. And, you know, going, people going after, like, why are you friends with this person? Or like, you know, someone will make a post on Facebook and tag like a hundred people, like, these are all my mutual friends that are friends with this piece of shit. And, yeah, what, you know, what I found, and I feel like it was even extra challenging for me, kind of navigating this as a very young person, you know, 18, 19, 20, like, you're not getting anywhere by turning your back on a friend to appease a mob of people who are angry for a temporary period of time. And, you know, if you keep doing your thing and you're being good to the people who you're around, you're spreading, you know, positivity, good information, if you're doing, doing your thing, like, no amount of noise is going to, is going to block you. You know, break that down. Like, you know, I guess, like, one thing after that that podcast a couple weeks ago, the, the Mike Cross episode.

Yeah.

There. You know, I, not to like, not going to name any names, but there were some people, uh, you know, in, like, that chat we had, um, from the episode, like, man, I've been getting some shit since yesterday about it. I'm like,

Yeah.

Like, like, that to me, just, it's so crazy, but it's not really surprising.

Yeah. Because we got to look at the root of the person talking shit and again, why, like, what could that, like, if we look like, oh, what can this be? Oh, it's Bob Smith. No shit. You know what I mean? That's why that's why it's like, it's that simple because it's like, who's talking shit? Oh, that makes sense why that person's talking shit because they have issues and that's all it comes down to. Like, dude, let's think about any mob mentality person or contributor. Who are these people? Like, let's, is it a Marshall? Is it a Gary? Is it a Bill? Is it like a, a Justin Cabela? Is it a, um, you know, there's names I could list that they're not associated with that stuff. And, and that's, that's me. I don't want to be. Dude, go ahead. Go try to take things down. I'm too busy breeding. I got, I'm making money over here. Like, I'm busy. You know what I mean? And these people just aren't busy with their lives, bro. And, and the thing is, they see people like whoever they're looking at, and they want it so bad where it turns into envy that is ruining their lives. It sucks, man. I've always used that. Like, when I remember seeing stuff that you had, like the white lips and everything that you posted at one point that I never had, Stephen, it never gave me a jealous bone to where I was like, "Fuck this guy." Like, it never did. It just made me be like, "I want to be friends with that dude." And then I want to figure out like how, like, I just, all these things as far as what I wanted, just became into like, how can I get close to this person so we could figure, like, so I can figure out what I need to do to get on this level.

Yeah. Um, but again, like, you can't control how people's, man, there's some situations out there with some people that are, man. Like, and that's why I, I sit back, Stephen. I go, you know what, dude? Like, these people's lives are not probably good right now, you know? Like, and that's why I can only think why, how does somebody have time to sit and just be negative and shit about something to where, like, dude, this has nothing to do with you, first and foremost. And if you think about anyone who's really bitching and complaining, what are you bitching and complaining about? You know what I'm saying? But again, you can't control how people's life situations are and how they deal with it. Bro, mental illness is bigger than ever right now. Like, there's some legit cases of mental illness. Do you hear about Tinley, my, getting choked out? You know what I'm saying? And then hitting his wife and all sorts of shit, bro. Like, a podcaster. Did you hear about that?

No.

Bro, it's, it's wild. There's a lot of wild stuff.

It sounds like Tinley.

So, yeah, but dude, it's just, it's getting to the point where these bottom feeders are just crashing out, and, um, all because, like, whatever their purpose of in this hobby is, it's just not working out because they're not here for the animals. Like, they're not breeding. They're not showing off projects. They're not doing anything interesting to get people to want to come in. They're just speaking on their podcast. You know what I mean? And being negative and, and, and attracting more negative people who are doing really bad in the hobby right now. So, the line in the, the line in the sand is so thick right now as far as like people who are successful enjoying the hobby and the people who are just bitter, sour, pissed off about to check out. Some have already checked out, but are still here. Like, you got people, you got people who sold their collections, maybe didn't even have a collection, but were a part of the animal world, no longer owning an animal, but they're here still.

What?

Yeah. Yeah. And, and you're going to influence, like, you want to influence. What are you influencing? So, anyways, that's kind of like, it's so ridiculous at this point where I'm just like, dude, God, I'm praying for those people. God bless all of them. I hope they figure it out. I know at one point in my life, I was so miserable where I was just on everything I saw, bro. And that's kind of, that's why I go back to it. I go, "Man, think about you, MJ, when you were so negative at the point because how much you hated yourself. You hated your life. You were miserable, dude. Miserable people act miserable. That's just what it comes down to."

So, but the thing was, I'm like, I'm, I didn't, I was tired of being miserable. So, I figured it out. Like, I, I saw counseling for four years. I saw a psychiatrist for a while, bro. I did a bunch of shit to figure out what my issues were. My issues were me. And that's the thing. The problem was me. The problem wasn't my friends. The problem wasn't my, if the problem was me. I was the issue. So, and even today, if there's an issue going on in my life, it's really because of me. I'm the creator of my own issues. And so, but once you figure that out and you stop blaming other people and you just get to work, life gets easier, bro. It's just what it comes down to.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, it, it, I feel like it does take a while to kind of understand, like, okay, get into the mind of somebody who's leaving a shitty comment or something like that. Like, man, I, I wouldn't, I don't know what my life would look like to where I would even have the thought to argue with someone on Facebook. Like,

How, how bad am I doing if that is what, like, Tuesday at 11:00 a.m. looks like for me.

Yeah. If my brain is just in such an overall negative state of being to where that's just like, hey, I'm going to do this. Like, that's even a thought. So, and, you know, I feel like especially if when someone's newer in the hobby, seeing some of that, like, it can kind of get worrisome. You want, you worry, like, you know, creates some kind of anxiety of like, all right, what's, what is this community all about? Am I going to get fucked on by someone like this if I make a mistake, like an honest mistake at some point in time? You know, it, it doesn't help anything. It really doesn't help anything or anybody. Um, obviously, like, that podcast we did calling something out that is genuinely fucked is necessary, but just fucking on someone just for the sake of it or just to start drama to kind of like fuel that fire inside of you. Just, I don't know.

Yeah. If the people who you around are are carrying themselves like that, it's kind of probably time to do a little bit of an audit of yourself as well.

That's the thing, man. Like, you know, at the end of the day, not everyone's going to tell you to stop behaving the way you're behaving. Um, and, and some people, man, will just enable it and let you just go down this whole entire path of you making yourself look like an entire asshole. And I did that for a while. I feel like I felt like, uh, me being MJ and just me wanting to go off was like, yeah, it got, it got attention and people liked it, but then I almost felt like that was fueling my fire. Like, that was instead of me being excited to breed my animals and look at that, instead of that being my fuel, like, it was more like going after people because, you know, I'm good at it. I really am. And so, and the thing is, it's like,

That's true.

But, and also, like, there are so many examples of why I could go off if you, like, if you care that much. One thing Forest used to always laugh at me about. He's like, "MJ, you care so much." Like, he used to laugh. He's like, "Dude, you remind me of me 10 years ago when I cared about the most stupidest shit." And I'm like, "BRO, SOMEBODY SENDING AN IMPORT WITH NO EYEBALLS. THAT'S HOW'S THAT STUPID?" He's like, "Yeah, I get it." It's like, dude, get used to it. Like, this is a part of what we do. You're gonna get fucked. And so,

Forest was more of the type where he's like, dude, you better get thick-skinned now and don't take shit personal. Like, Forest would buy from the same person who fucked him over. You know what I mean? And I was just like,

That was a problem, too.

Like, the thing is, like, Forest wasn't the only one. There was, there's been people, there's been people in this hobby who have such a bad rap of fucking people over, but they have the ability to get shit that nobody else can get. And so, no matter what goes down, people are going to still give you money. And so, and again, that's why I was like, you, I mean, I remember hearing about piece of shits left and right after meeting Forest because Forest was so upfront about all these experiences with me with these people, and then I would go see him go travel with them and I'm like, "What the?" And so, but at the end of the day, I'm just like, dude, like, you know, you just got to, that's kind of how you work the relationships, I guess, in this hobby. But for me, I just, I'm not built like that, bro.

If you want to, it's, it's definitely not necessary. You know, there's, there's always, there's always another way, I feel like. But, yeah, I guess if you're, if your goal is to acquire some animal or or some kinds of animals by any means necessary, then that's the main goal instead of protecting your, your inner peace and your happiness. So, you know, like, you know your priorities, you know them.

You got to admit, Stephen, it's pretty difficult to really get blackballed out of this hobby. Like, I'm talking about like where you have zero, zero support. I think you got to be, I mean, Samson's still out there, somehow, right? If he can do it, anyone can do it.

That's what I'm saying, right? And like, you would think, like, he's the of all horror stories when it comes to fucking animals, but at the end of the day, I feel like if somebody is that adamant about wanting to get stuff out there, like, they're going to be able to get their way into some sort of show or something somehow at some point.

Inevitably. But at the end of the day, like, that's changing, though. I mean, I will say, because of how much of the new wave of keepers came in who want to do better by the animals, and how we know how you just can't fuck people over nowadays. Like, it's, it's not that easy. Like, you, you got to be prepared to go through shit if you are fucking people over. Like, the whole Mike Cross shit. Like, he, dude, I'm hearing some crazy stuff that's happening on the back end with that. But I'm just saying, like, now with social media and with Trap Talk and other shit, bro, like, you just can't fuck.

People over. Um, and also, and which I'm happy for, because, you know, at the end of the day, if you want to talk about what pushes people out the most, is that one bad experience where you dropped a lot of money on a reptile, finally, and you get fucked. You know?

And honestly, man, that's, man, so far, man, being someone who sold a lot of green tree pythons this year, I'm hearing stories about how there's some shady shit guys out there in the Condro game. Not a lot. There's not a. Here's the thing. There's not a lot, but like the whole just ruining your name by selling one undersized animal or whatever, it's just so not worth it. Like, it's not, because I don't think you could rebuttal from shit like that. Like, if you're known to sell an animal that perished or something happened and you're just not taking care of that person, and there's a rap sheet behind it, dude, you're not, good luck.

Yeah. Because people talk so much. People talk so much. And like, dude, I've had that happen to me, so I talk a lot. We all know that I do it for a living. So, I just don't understand. I, I hope someone out there listening who kind of been fucking people over is like, "Dude, I better stop because first and foremost, you're a piece of shit for doing that." But also, like, what good are you doing the hobby? Like, why would you want to limit the people in this hobby by fucking them over instead of just wanting to take them in as students or something? Like, I look at all my customers as students, man. Like, because a lot of them are. Dude, this year, I'm trying to think, there was maybe only three Condro breeders that were breeders before I had success that I sold Condros to. The rest, all new guys.

Wow.

So, yeah, it's a lot of new keepers, bro. You know what I mean? So, and, and it's, it's hard. I mean, you can only hold people's hands for so long. And you just, as you know, Stephen, selling scrubs and other stuff to people, like, there's some hard-headed people out there. Some people want to learn the hard way. They don't always want to listen to what you advise.

And there's, there's not much I can do about that, unfortunately. Like, dude, you know, I know patience is key, but, like, for instance, like Gary's, Gary, shout out to Gary Scabino, right? But Gary's the individual where, let's say you buy a $5,000 animal from Gary, right? No, no, fuck the, let's fuck the price. Let's say you buy a $1,000 animal from Gary, and Gary tells you to put it in a 15-quart tub with a hide, a perch, whatever. Okay. Then you take that animal in and you put it in a 4x2x2 with a fog machine. Fucking goddamn anoles going everywhere. Whatever, dude, whatever you did that wasn't Gary's advice, you did. And then the snake's not eating. Gary's so kind enough to take that snake back. Like, you'll take that snake back, get it eating, and help you figure shit out.

Um, I'm, I, I'm not saying I wouldn't be like that, but I'm not going to be as nice. Like, you know what I mean? I'm going to, I'm going to, because first and foremost, like, I know I could only go so far with being choosy on who I sell animals to, but if I am going to sell you one of my hard-earned green tree pythons, you're going to do what the fuck I tell you to do. Otherwise, you're not getting the snake. You know what I mean? Because I'm just like, I don't want that guilt on my shoulders of like, goddamn it, like, why is that snake dead? Like, because you just didn't simply do what I told you to do. I'm just trying to eliminate that. That's all. I don't, I don't want to live with that. And so, and also too, like, how, how does it feel to fucking lose an animal like that? Like, it's not easy to deal with. Like, that's, I mean, that took me a long time to have to really deal with the loss of an animal. Like, especially a Condro or an emerald. Like, those used to fuck up like my whole month when shit like that would happen. You know what I mean? Um, because I always looked at it as like, well, there goes $1,200. There goes, I would always look at it as like, I just, I lost that money. I'm never getting it back.

You know, it's kind of what you think in the beginning because you're spending a lot of money. And so, I don't know. I just, uh, at the end of the day, man, it's, you know, you got to learn on your own terms, I guess, because I did. I mean, I got a lot of good advice and still did what I thought I needed to do. I got in the way of a lot of times, which probably took me so long to get success with the Condros because I always stepped in when I should have never stepped in, all because I'm just ADD like that. So, it, I, I had to learn, dude. And you, and you've been a part of my whole Condro journey, Stephen. I remember for the most part.

Yeah, it's been rocky. And so, um, anyways, so yeah, I just feel like, uh, just, I don't know. I, I, I just feel like right now in the hobby, there are some people out there working really hard to build a good name, but you also have people out there who just don't give a fuck. And you have to be careful, too, because you have people who've been around for a while. And I feel like one of the scary things is like, like this Mike Cross situation, dude, this guy had nothing but a good rep before all this. Like, I didn't hear any bad things about this guy until all this shit went down. So, like, what makes you think someone else who has a good name won't have something crazy happen to their life when they say, "You know what? I need $80,000. I'm going ballistic and then I'm going to go to Mexico. I'm out." You know, really like that's, and, and mind you, dude, I just, I, I think about that all the time. I'm like, but my, that's why I don't go looking for. I'm such, I'm in such a place I don't need to go buy a snake. I mean, if I do, it's just unnecessary at this point. Like, I don't, I'm so good right now.

Um, but yeah, I don't know. I'm all about trying to look after the new ones, the new keepers, bro, because it's not, everyone can bounce back from a loss. And it just, it really grinds my gears to see grimy people, um, like this Mike Cross guy and a couple other Condro guys that I could think of that just are like, they just don't care. Like, they're like, fuck it, you know? Like, fuck these people. Like, what? It's your word against mine. I hate those kind of people, bro. I really do.

Yeah. I mean, that's the good thing about, you know, podcasts and social media and whatnot is like, man, it, it's gonna get found out one way or another. And if you're a new keeper, you can learn from experiences of people who have fucked up or whatnot. And, you know, just eliminate a lot of those steps of the process. Ultimately, at the end of the day, all of us are going to learn some really hard lessons as keepers. But, yeah, man, if you can learn some of those from other people and not have to make them. And when I was younger, that was most of what I was doing. Like, I would go to shows and I would, you know, hang out and whatnot. I would not, I would my mouth would be closed. I would be just listening.

You never talked back then, bro. You were not a talker.

Yeah. To the point where it was, it was a problem. But I'm like, man, I just want to learn everything that these people, like, I don't want to say necessarily regret, but like, anybody who I look up to, what would they have done differently, and let's just avoid doing that to begin with.

Yeah. And I think that was a big reason why I was able to kind of get to where I am at a young age was because I, I learned some of those lessons the, the easy way. I learned some very hard lessons as well, don't get me wrong. But, um, yeah, I, I think, I think the hard lessons, the hard lessons are so unavoidable if you want to do this for the long term. Um, because I feel like, you know, one thing, you know, being tapped in the green python game so, so thick, you know, you, you hear people who come in and get clutches their first two years and have success, and I'm like, dude, that's great. Like, you don't hear a lot of that stuff, but it happens. But then you get to year four, year five, and something will happen. Like, at some point, at some point, you're going to hit some sort of wall where no matter what podcast you listen to, no matter who the fuck your mentor is, you're going to have to figure it out. And, and that shit's not easy because you are alone in this when it comes down to just being you and your animals at that point in time. And I'm just talking, it could be anything where pairing to getting something to eat, anything, like anything. Um, and that's why again, like, I get, I love that so, so many people have learned so much that we put out there, but nothing is going to teach you better than your own experience. Like, you gotta sometimes just have it in front of you and fuck, figure it out. U, because I can't tell you how many times, Stephen, there's been things I knew what to do, but because of the moment, my mind just goes blank and I'm just like,

Yeah, me too.

And I'm like, what the fuck? And so, whatever. But then I'm like, oh, fuck, okay, get a water bin or whatever. Like, there's just moments where you almost forget what you need to do because you're just almost so stuck by it, you're just like,

Thousand percent.

What? What the fuck? And so, uh, but yeah, you got to act. You can't, you can't wait on it. And you just, I don't know, man. It happens with time. Again, bro, it's kind of like, I don't want to, I'm not trying to put what we do on a pedestal. But,

No.

Like, not everybody could swing a golf club. Not everyone could swing a baseball bat like, you know, like Griffy. Like, not everyone could shoot a basketball. Not everyone could breed, bro. Like, this is a sport, and I'm not tripping. Like, this is a, like, you got to have attention to detail. You got to know how to read your animals. You got to know how to feed your animals. You got to know why you need to feed your animals. Like, there's so many things that go into a thought process on how to get good with this. And it's not a overnight thing. It's not easy. And you got to really be crazy about it. Like, if you're halfway in, halfway out, your results are going to be halfway in, halfway out. You're not going to go 70 for 70. Pow. Okay. I'm very proud, very proud of that number. That's, that's because dude, you know how passionate and lit and crazy I've been about this for the last eight years, bro. Like, it's been my life. Literally my life. So, but again, you got to want it, bro. And, as much as you want to help people, you can't teach people passion. Like, that's not something you could teach somebody. They either either got it or they don't. So,

Yeah. Well, I feel like that's one of the main things that I have kind of, I don't want to say I, I, I struggle to characterize it as a mistake or not, of like having a super diverse collection and then having years where I was like, man, I'm just so disappointed with how breeding went this year, and I look around and I'm like, well, I have 60 species. Okay. So, imagine, imagine, imagine if it was my situation where I'm like, breeding didn't go well this year, I have two species, bro. It's different. Okay. Your, your attention to detail is spread so thin. And even though you know, you try to concentrate on what's like the priority, either, which is the scrubs.

Yeah. Dude, you have a schedule, Stephen, where it's, there's not much time for anything. Okay. Um, and mind you, that's, I, we talked about this, your overhead. You like it. You, you legit, you told me you're, you passionately want this many different species. Maybe not 60. I know you, I know you said you wanted to, you know, slim down, but like, what? Okay, 30. Even 30 is a ton, bro. Like, this is a lot, Stephen. I mean, again,

Well, but I mean, what, what I was going to say, like, when, um, I think it was the probably the last time I was at your place after, um, a lot of the tree monitors were out, and I, I asked you, I was like, "Man, how many hours a week does it take to clean your collection?" And you were like, "I think five." I think I, I like went into like a comatose state for like 15 minutes of like, oh my god, how nice would that be?

Yeah. You want to know what it is now? You want to know what it is now?

Three.

Two and a half.

Okay. Bro. Two and a half. If I was like, I need to hurry up, water change, spray everything. Okay. Including babies. Two and a half, three hours. I would say, that's everything. Like, if I had, but mind you, I'm not, I'm not looking at my phone. It's like, just straight. And I still, and I still that up. But I split that up. I don't ever have to do everything the same day, bro. Everything is like, oh, what's on the board today? I get to take my time with the babies and literally I'll spend three hours with my babies. Like, oh, let's, you just like, dude. Anyways, I'm not trying to brag. I'm just saying, Stephen, you should at some point be proud of what you've done with all the species you've kept, but when is enough is enough? Like, when are you,

That's kind of what I'm trying to do now. Um, I, like last year, I was just looking at some of the things that I did wrong with breeding, and I'm like, man, I just had some of these little side projects that, like, I was never going to put the specialized effort into them that I did into scrubs or tiger rats or whatever it may be. And I'm like, these aren't, none of the stuff is species that I can't get again one day if I wanted to.

That's why, you know, I'm like, if I'm really trying to do this professionally, and I'm not, like, I'm, I'm frustrated, like, I'm not feeling as happy as I feel like I could be, and I'm worried that getting rid of some of these lower priority species, projects, whatever it may be, are, like, I'm going to regret it. Like, I almost, I don't want to say I, I feel like resentment, but like, when I'm cleaning them every week, I almost have this thought of like, I'm not sure why I still have these. Like, and I've, I've done, all because of FOMO. I just, because I've been doing it like that for so long. I mean, shoot, when, when I first, you know, moved to Indiana and like.

was working with Forest, our our [snorts] the collection cuz mine my animals and and his were in the same space. Like >> I remember >> the combined collection had I want to say around 150 species of between five and 600 animals. And >> yeah, >> that felt like normal to me or like wow, this is, you know, this is what I've always wanted to do. And I look back, I'm like that I I like that was the most miserable point of my life.

>> And and Okay. And how important was breeding back then? Like how how much were you really focusing on breeding that was successful breeding in a collection like that? There was nothing. It was it was it was everywhere. >> It was hard. I mean like that. >> Yeah. You know, as I've kind of shrunk down, specialized, shrunk down, specialized, I've I've just produced more stuff. Um >> Yeah. And especially after seeing your green tree year, I'm like, man, like why the hell can't I do that with scrubs and from from every standpoint of like that's it's what I it's what I enjoy producing the most. Like when those babies come out of the eggs, like I get more happiness from that than anything else that I'm working with. So I'm like, all right, why won't why shouldn't I double down on that? It's what I'm most known for. And I I mean this this year in particular when I had a pretty poor breeding year and what I did produce which was a good thing was like some of the best stuff in my collection. So I held back almost everything I produced this year. The amount of times I had to like turn down potential sales. People just hitting me up like, "Hey, do you have any of this? Any of this? Any of this?" I'm like, man, if I had all of that, I would be in a much better financial state than I am currently because I have people who want these things that, you know, these species that I'm I'm working with and I'm not able to I'm not able to deliver that this year and I'm leaving, you know, I'm leaving a lot of money on the table and, you know, for better or worse, potentially sending them those people to other breeders or even importers to, you know, to get that that same snake that they were looking to me for. So, >> we talking scrubs though or are we talking a different species? >> Primarily scrubs and then I would say otherwise the like the tiger rats and some of the pine snakes. Um, you know, I already have like waiting lists for next year that if everyone comes through on the list like I'll have people going to the next year who I didn't even get to message yet. So, >> I'm like, man, if I'm really known for these few things, what the hell am I doing breeding stuff that I'm not well known for or like putting a lot of effort into it because I don't want to get rid of a project that I really love just because the the money isn't necessarily there, but like instead of having 10 of them, maybe like a pair or two just for something that I enjoy, you know?

>> Well, dude, I mean, trip out about this. I mean, I've had a I've had a dedicated green tree python uh podcast on this network for at least two years now. Maybe a little bit longer. >> Um even before Yeah, maybe longer. But I'm trying to think like you know how many people came to me wanting condos and I didn't have it because I'm like >> I remember you telling me >> like MJ like do you have any Grinchie pythons? I'm like no I don't like you know just just because I was going through it. But you you know I would just send them to Bill send them to Socrates. I would always like and mind you too like I didn't like in my head I wasn't like oh man like I'm missing out. No dude I know or not I'm breeding green tree pythons because I [ __ ] love green tree pythons and as much as I'm happy with how much money I made this year with green tree pythons it was never a priority. Like it wasn't the reason why I was breeding green tree pythons. You want to know why I was breeding green tree pythons? It's because our friend back in the day told me not a lot of people are good at this and they give up because it's very heartbreaking. And I remember I was already a fragile individual then. So it was like a challenge. It was like a challenge to myself. And and and I again I always tell people I'm someone if you tell me I can't do it or it's not going to happen and if I and something in me wants to do it, I'm going to do it. Like I rather fail myself to be like, "Yeah, that didn't work." versus not do it because you told me not to do it. Like I'm a I'm a very like uh what is that? What's the term? >> I'm Yeah. Thanks. Not. Well, yeah, I'm stubborn, I guess. Yeah, I guess stubborn. Like when if you tell me not to do something, I'm going to do it. Yeah. Okay, that's [laughter] I was trying to think of a better word, but no, you're right. You nailed it. Um, [laughter] >> I guess hard-headed, too, you know, because sometimes the people are just looking after me and they're like, yo, but then I'm like, no, [ __ ] that. But again, I think at that time, okay, I think I already had a good handful of green tree pythons. And when somebody told me that is when I had my first clutch and she scattered them all over the floor like she just like it was a it was um it was quite the experience because I was waiting for a pre-lay shed. She never gave me a pre-lay shed. I never saw an ovulation. I just know I paired. I had a couple people telling me, "Yeah, she looks gravid. She's gravid. Wait for a shed. Wait for a shed." I keep coming in every morning. And then I finally saw eggs all over the floor. And then I saw um and then I called that that that friend of ours and uh told him what was happening and he's like, "Yeah." He's like, "She just didn't want those eggs." Or I forgot what he told me, but he's like, "Just be prepared yourself because this is like this is why people [ __ ] stop doing green tree pythons cuz this is like the normal like outcome." And so, >> and I was like, "Nah." But I was so obsessed with them at that point. I was like, "No, man. I got to figure this [ __ ] out." And so, um, but yeah, man, I got in the way of a lot of my own failures, but honestly, I'm not I don't regret it either, dude. Like, I had again, like it was my own journey. Um, I made things difficult at times, but at the end of the day, like now I know like you know that term [ __ ] around and find out. Like I did a lot of that and so and now I found out what I need to find out and and again I can't I can't thank enough of our our own friends uh like Bill and Marshall Ryan Young. Dude, Ryan's man if you really want to talk about whose advice I >> Horse himself, Ryan Young. >> If you really want to know who helped me changed everything with how I keep things, Ryan Young. I I want to give I want to give that guy so much props. >> Um and then when it comes to incubating, like the reason why I felt like my incubation's [ __ ] just tits at this point, I gotta give it up to Garrick from House of Blues. Um because he I do exactly what he told me to do. >> And um yeah, dude. I mean, again, there's you got to sit back and see where things aren't working and you got to know uh what you should do about it. I went to my my big homies for advice and you know yeah dude I just just adjusted and I think adjusting is everything. You got you got to learn how to adjust when to adjust. You have to swallow your pride sometimes because you know I feel like you know this Stephen you do your best to try to keep the animal at the best capability and when you have someone come in saying oh that's not right or it kind of makes it [ __ ] your ego up a little bit. You're kind of like >> big time. I Yeah. I struggle with that hardcore. Yeah. >> Yeah. But also it's like, okay, look who's telling you this and don't take it per like you want to know who [ __ ] does that to me all the time? Mark Bailey. Shout out to Mark Bailey. But he'll tell me like like, "Oh, something doesn't smell right in here." Or he'll like, and I'm like, "Motherfucker, I know the smell in my own room." But then like when he'll leave, I was like, "Oh my god, there was a rat in this bin." LIKE, HOW HOW DID I NOT not smell that? Like Mark's just that he's that dude. You know what I mean? And honestly, if you want to talk about what helped me realize like you don't need all these [ __ ] species, [ __ ] that was Mark Bailey. like he was like he would like I'll never forget like being so like I'll never forget being so happy to show me either some of the boas or even the scrubs I had and and he loved the scrubs. I gota think out of all >> you need scrubs again at some point >> which let me Okay, hold on. Let me pause what I was going to say and go back to what I told you. If it wasn't for you, Stephen, and the scrubs, my scrubs would have never left. I would have kept I told you that. I told you like that's how connected I was to the scrub pythons. Um, the scrubs will be back in my life. I once I got all the room I need for them because I I'm not gonna do a scrub. Do you No, I want a lot of them. I want But the thing is I want to dedicate their own [ __ ] area, their own [ __ ] thing because that's something I'm missing in my life, bro, were the scrubs. And um I knew I'm like, "Okay, these these [ __ ] things that you grew up and you you know I everything I sent you, Stephen, I raised for the most part. So, letting these go was hard, but I'm like, it's going to Stephen. Like, it's very close and he's family and I know I could make that happen because they're that close. And I know I already know whenever I'm ready to get back into the scrub game, how easy is that? It's just as easy as you getting back to the Condro game. It's it's literally one phone call away and I'm back in it. >> So, that's why I was able to let go of the scrubs. Um, and I want to say shout out to Carly because Carly took the Malucans and and I didn't want I did not want to part ways with those Malucans, but space was a determination factor for me and and so I was I had no choice. But then again, I would have never >> gave them to a random. I would have just held on to them or or they would have went to you. They were actually going to go to you. If they didn't go to Carly, they were going to go to you. That's that was the plan. So, um, and again, that's like, you know, maturity, knowing like, okay, dude, are you really passionate about working with something to where you want to figure out how to keep them space-wise, or do you want to let them go and focus on stuff that really is helping you out? And that's that's what it came down to for me, man. And so, yeah, I'm going to revisit the scrubs for sure, but I want people to know I would have never let them go if it wasn't for them going to you. 100%. I would have kept them because they were they were that pinnacle to me. Like, they were that like like I do miss them. I miss them. I really do. >> Yeah. Well, you'll get back there one day. I believe in it. >> How's MJ doing? How's baby MJ? >> He is down here to my bottom right and he's uh he's he's a he's a little beast, man. None of the bar neck females are really starting to do their thing yet. But, um once you know, I' I've had him with a couple girls so far and and it's it's them not being ready. It's not him. He's he's ready to go. So, >> that was a Dude, he ended up being one of the nicer ones, too, which is crazy. >> Yeah, I know. He's he's he's great. He's really awesome. And he looks very unique compared to the rest of the clutch, too, which is which is really cool. Um >> Yeah. >> So, but I I want to kind of Were you going to say something? >> No, I was going to say, man, scrubs are just so youth, Stephen. I just I hope you never um lose focus of >> like where you're at with scrubs as far as like front of the line. like you're just I mean it it is crazy to me to think how front of the line you are with the scrubs you have and you have all 59 other species. I I don't >> I'm down to I'm down to 40 now. Okay. >> Okay, good. Okay, good. But but still like bro scrub to me like if I was in your position with scrubs, >> I would probably only have scrubs. I probably personally maybe I don't know, >> dude. It crosses my mind. Um, but you know, I I kind of look at my collection the same way that like I I honestly I looked at at what you were doing and I'm like, "All right, I can I can model it the same way. The scrubs for me are the condro for you. The tiger rats, the spelodies are [clears throat] like your emeralds." And then my my pits, my pines, bulls, gophers are like the ball pythons for you. That's like those are the the animals I breed. They're like, well, I mean, not in the not comparable to ball pythons all the time, but like they're entry level price point. You can, you know, you can give them to a beginner keeper. I still really love working with them. And then [snorts] the the spelies, like I've never had more demand for a species that I've produced. Like it's crazy. And they they >> scare me, man. >> That's Wait, no, I'm sorry. We're the ones with the crazy eyeballs. It's like they're it's black and it has a puffy throat >> and it has some [ __ ] like bulging eyeballs. What was that one? >> Not the >> It's a colubrid. Remember the first time I ever saw it was was in Indie was in Indianapolis in the in >> they were black. They're they're out there. It's a popular colubrid. Um maybe I I thought it was spelies. I thought >> probably Yeah, I know. It probably was especially you saw it there. I mean I was my knowledge isn't top tier. It's very very mid or below. So, I'm sorry. >> Well, like I mean I I people people want them. I mean other than other than Jason Hood, like the two of us are probably the only people in the country producing them. And now I mean I only did it one year. So like I'm like [snorts] I I you know they're my favorite colubras. Like I'm not going to stop working with them. But they're like the more specialized like the emeralds where you probably wouldn't put an emerald in a hand of a brand new keeper, but they're plenty of experienced keepers who can handle an emerald treebo. That's not not really a problem. Um, I guess the only thing that I really have right now that and I I have been working on downsizing. It's been it's been a pain in the ass, but the uh the venomous collection. Um, [laughter] I I I love the snakes, man. But like I just never was super stoked about being a huge part of like the community and I've been screwed over by a handful of people in the venomous world. I'm just like, man, >> fortunate. >> You know, I I love the snakes. I love making my setups. like my my room with my rattlesnakes is like a little zoo hall, but I'm like if that can be like right now I'm trying to get it like down to one room like one bedroom that's where all the venomous are and I'm not holding stuff back really like I have my collection and uh just like let it be let it be an easy like fun project wholesale babies whatever you know I >> babies but okay do does a hobby really need more venomous wholesale babies Stephen wholesale people who are going to retail them like the right way certain species yes honestly like a lot of what I have I have people in Europe who are like when you have a litter I'll buy your litter I'm like >> that's what I you know I don't want I'm not producing western diamondbacks and monle cobras and [ __ ] like that like you know I'm breeding stuff that's in demand within the right markets but >> would would you agree would you agree though okay if And this is why none of you better hope this, but if I were somehow in charge of making the laws and if I said you can no longer [ __ ] breed venomous or keep venomous unless it's like the of course the per if heavily permitted and stuff like that. If that was literally enforced and let's say 20 years down this was enforced that'd be one less thing we all had to be worried about. I could tell you that right now because it just made >> and it's and it's even like the big even with big mainland retix and I love I love retix bro. you know how I feel about them. But you those things could do so much damage, bro. Like like they could [ __ ] [ __ ] up. And so and again like this is just me like wondering like what could really [ __ ] this hobby is more news articles about [ __ ] dying because of these animals. Like >> it's just like how no it's no good for a pit bull attack on a human is good for the dog world. Like it's just it's terrible. And and that's why I love pit bulls. And but they have such a bad name, man. They're not even you can't even have them in some HOAs. Like, and so it's like that's where we headed at with the reptile world like that [ __ ] It's >> I don't know. And and again, the venomous world is a different world, man. You got some [ __ ] cuckoo out there, man. >> Yeah. I mean, there there are some great people who would do it, but then at the same time, like the the the bad of the venomous world is like, oh my god, it's like shocking. It's so >> No, what makes you want what makes me want to be a part of the venomous world is being friends with people like Kyle Vargas. Okay. If I was friends with people like Kyle, I I'll own a Venomus at some point because how badass that dude is. And no, man, I don't think there's nobody in the game like that guy, dude. Um I want to say shout out to Alexander England because he's a [ __ ] G2. Like like these guys are so just like quiet behind the scenes, so knowledgeable. Like they don't they don't want to be seen almost, but they just are so [ __ ] G at what they do. That's just not the common thing in the Venomous world. It's all about putting yourself out there and like and that's the the whole like I guess the code of the venomous world was lowkey like you do it to >> it still is in a lot of ways like a lot of people who are really serious about it you know like people like Kyle and Alex like you just said um Patrick's a little bit more out forward facing with his venom but not >> but not from like he doesn't like sell a lot of venomous publicly um >> that's like that's kind of you know that's what I that's the involvement I want to have is like really enjoy the animals, stay out of the the drama and you know not not be over consumed by it. Um but you know it's it's a different it's a totally different beast altogether. I mean it's it's like it's an entirely different community than than the the rest of the the reptile world, >> but it does have some good ass people part of it, too. It's kind of like >> Exactly. It's not all bad. >> Yeah. I'm not I'm not trying to say like, you know, I wish I could erase the entire venomous community because I wouldn't wouldn't want that. Trust me. Like I know some badass [ __ ] like the people we mentioned >> who are like like they at least the venomous community has people like that. Yeah. >> You know what I mean? But the thing is it's like man you got the egos just get in the way. And so >> um but that's the egos. The egos are part of everything we do in life, man. Even me like I got to check my ego sometimes. But then again, like I felt like I had so many people rooting against me where it's like I'm allowed to let this ego beast out sometimes, you know, but also it's kind of like, you know, enough is enough. I just I'm just so happy where I'm at with things and and and where things are headed. Um I'm more excited for next year, you know, because I'm I'm so happy, you know, hitting 70 for 70, but 71 for 71, bro. That's that's my next goal, bro. You know what I mean? I'm just trying to keep going. I want to get better. That's all I want to do is get better. I'm not I'm not at that point where I'm like [ __ ] sitting on a goddamn throne and like I can I can hang my coat now. Like no, dude. Like we're just getting started here. So I want I want 10 years of this [ __ ] minimal of backtoback success, you know?

>> Yeah. Well, let's let's start getting into it. So >> sure. >> You know, I feel like a lot of people a lot of people know your your story and have been following you for a while, but inevitably some people don't. You know, they see this this incredible breeding season you had and probably don't fully understand all of the the heartbreak that came before that. So this year 2025, h what year was this of you for condro breeding? Was it five year five? >> So 2017, I'm sorry, 2018 I got my Okay. Well, 2018 is when I first bred condos. Like that's I >> damn I didn't realize it was that early. >> Yes. And that's when I got that first clutch. Um remember El Chapo? You remember that name? El Chapo? >> Oh, I remember. >> Okay. So El Chap El Chapo was the my my very first hatchling to go the distance. um from that clutch that eventually died after me being in the hospital. Long story short, but anyways, 2018 I got my very first Condro clutch and then I didn't get another one till two years after that which was from Mimi. I got Mimi to go. I think I got two clutches that year and then another year after that I got like a clutch and then the year after that was like so so every from that point on basically was either a clutch or two each year. Um and uh yeah, it was always the same story with me. Um I was I mean there was maybe one or two incidents where I was getting slugged out clutches but for the most part I was getting really good eggs 15 16 eggs and they would sometimes for the most part go the distance and then be fully termed dead in the egg like fully developed like like scratching your head like why how did you not come out you know like you're fully formed like how do you go this far just to die >> um and that kept happening to me and so >> you know going back. I just realized like one thing I remember the very first time um was moving the Okay, that wasn't even the first time. I can't even tell you what I did the first time. I really can't. I just remember the second time I incubated a clutch. Socrates helped me and and um and he helped me after the fact because I got the clutch, put it in the incubator, and then I asked him, I was like, "Where do you put the like where do you like to put the probe um like inside the the incubator?" And he's like, "I like he's like, "I just like to leave it out." like he told me he's like I just like to leave it out like in the incubator ambient section like you know and I had it I had it in the actual egg box and so when he told me that I took it out and and this was like already on like on day must have been like day 20 or something like that and so I took them out and then literally the next day they all started dying one by one by one and I WAS LIKE OH MY GOD WHAT THE [ __ ] DID I DO AND AND I told Socrates he's like why [clears throat] the [ __ ] would you take the probe out like because mind you just by doing that it throws everything off like Now, now the heat's completely different. And so, um, he was like, "No, MJ, like I I didn't, you know, I I didn't know you already had it in the egg box. I would have told you to left it in there." And I was like, "Oh, fuck." And so, like, I took it really hard then. Uh, I remember I got like two to hatch and then they they ended up prolapsing and dying. And so, that's okay. So, and that's another thing. So, if I was getting them to hatch, like I remember the be up to this year, oh, up till like last year. So, last year is when I had my very first full-term successful clutch. Um, I had two clutches last year, but they weren't both full like good. But anyway, so leading to that, anytime I did get a snake to come out of the egg, I would get it to eat and it would prolapse and die. >> Prolapses was the common thing for me. Like, and it was that was another thing like I was like, what the [ __ ] Like, what do I need to do? And it was like, okay, put them put them over water, did that, still got prolapses. Spray them every day. Did that, still got prolapses. Feed them smaller meals, did that, still prolapse. feed feed them bigger meals. Did that still prolapse? Everything was prolapse. Um, and that's another [ __ ] I was getting sick of it, dude, cuz I'm like, you know, those those suck, bro. Like those seeing those are just like, [sighs] you know, it's like what? Like, especially when you're already thinking about down the road of how it's going to look maybe and, you know, how excited you are to [ __ ] get this thing going and then you see that it's really really [ __ ] throws a wrench into the whole excitement. And I I've had that happen a lot. Um, >> yeah, >> but it came down to just me kind of figuring out like what what like what aren't I doing in this room that I can help with just basic husbandry stuff. Like I had a lot of stuck sheds. Like even though I was spraying everything, I was still a lot of stuck sheds. And so I was like, why is that the case? And then I would realize, hm, the humidity ambient in my room on an average is 30%. That's [ __ ] dry. That's really dry. And so no matter how much you work in the tubs in the enclosure, if your ambient humidity is dry as tits, your your shit's going to dry out. And then also too, what wasn't helping was heat, right? If you're blasting heat, that's going to suck and kill all the humidity as well. Um, so two biggest factors for me, my humidity, right? My humidity was [ __ ] so bad on top of overusing my heat panels. Um cuz I thought I was using the heat panels accordingly, but I was not. >> And two years ago was when I had all these I had three girls slug out on me. Remember I told you I was like, "Dude, I had back to backto back slugouts." >> Yeah. >> And and it all came down to [ __ ] because the males the males were getting cooked. >> Um and basically the you know the sperm were just [ __ ] just not viable because it was getting getting toasted >> and and and it had something to do with the heat but also humidity everything else. And so once I figured out what to do to get my humidity up in my room, which looking at it right now, 70%, stays at 70. I'm very happy. Like it's a consistent 70%. I think even with my doors open now, if I have my doors open, can't be all day, but if I have my doors open, if I'm working, it doesn't drop lower than 60%. And I [ __ ] love it. >> Um, yeah. And so once I [ __ ] did that and I eliminated the amount of heat panel usage, basically cut them off. I don't mean those heat panels right now are set to 80. Um, this room, which is 79.5% or 70 79.5 uh degrees, it's going to go up to about 82 by like noon, and it's 10:00 a.m. right now. So, this room naturally gets about 82 83 on its own. And I just let that be. I don't I don't I don't supplement any more heat other than making sure it's at least 80 in there during the daytime, which my room never gets lower than 80 if it's peak daytime heat. Um >> Okay. >> And by doing that, dude, holy [ __ ] Like, we talk about we're seeing a lot more activity with the snake. Like, it's not just sitting in one place all the time. It's moving, going everywhere. I don't deal with stuck sheds anymore. Yeah. I I'll have a random one like mainly emeralds. Like I got a male emerald who [ __ ] no matter what I do for him, he'll just every now and again he'll give me a [ __ ] shed. Um, and it is what it is. But >> yeah, >> dude, the ball pythons, I don't [ __ ] worry about them their stuck sheds anymore. And I don't even spray ball pythons anymore, man. I used to spend so much time spraying ball pythons, bro. Uh, just because I hated to use um [ __ ] uh I hated to soak. Like I hated I just hated suction and I hated soaking. such a such a process to refill the tub and do all that, right? And so, >> yeah. >> Um, so I sprayed all the time, but you got to think like that much water like just not sanitary wise, this is not good. Like it's just if you could somehow up humidity where like maybe spraying only happens when it's in shed or whatever. Perfect. And that's all I really that's the only time I really step in to spray something is when it's in shed. Um, except the emeralds. I feel like the emeralds, man, like they love it. I feel like um Chris Rice, bro. God damn it. I love that guy. Uh but I'm gonna spray to the day I die. Okay. [laughter] I I'm spraying to the day I [ __ ] die. Um and I could like Yeah, you're you're never changing me. Even though he he opened my mind big time to like understanding humidity as well. Like it did trip me out that Chris never sprays but got perfect sheds. I'm like how, you know, and and he just >> his humidity is locked in. You know, I think even now like humidity his humidity is never lower than 50%. Like it's it's 15 and above. And so, >> you know, there there just there's factors of how to give things better husbandry out there. And I feel like that's what I that's one thing I took serious over the last two years which led to me having such success, you know, was getting these animals to be happy. You know, happy animals breed breed good. That's what it comes down to.

>> So, what are you doing specifically for the humidity in your room? Are you running humidifiers or what do you do that to change that ambient from 30 to 70? >> Yeah, so in the past I've um in [clears throat] the past I've attempted to do things about my humidity and I just haven't had good luck. Like I always had humidifiers that like put air particles and like it just wasn't a good experience. I even had one where I would come in and there was droplets on my walls and I'm like what the [ __ ] This isn't good. And so I just never was like I'm not going to do this because this doesn't seem like it the right way. But then shout out to John Herby. But John Herby came on Trap Talk about a year ago, I think, maybe a little bit longer. Okay. And he told me he he uses the air care systems um the air care humidifiers. >> And I guess they have a the way these things work, they have a filter where like, you know, they don't put any air air particles in the air. Okay. >> Evaporative humidifier. >> Yeah. Right. >> Yeah, dude. So I got one of those bad boys. >> Dude, game changer. I loved it so much where I was like, man, like I could probably use this less if I have two of them. And so I got two of them and now two of them I'm like I put them on the lowest speed and my room stays like I where it needs to stay and I'm not filling these things up until like two days later. And it's like it's a quick fill up, you know, like I use filter I use filtered water. Um, there's this also this an antibacterial like liquid uh solution that you could put in that actually makes your room smell pretty good. Um, it just kind of it kills any kind of like weird funky smell or odor that the humidifier could potentially put out if it is dirty. Okay. >> But it also kills any bacteria too. Like if you notice some humidifiers out there will collect a bunch of gunk. Like it will collect a bunch of gunk and it's nasty. If you if you put this antibacterial stuff in there, it doesn't happen. >> Send me a link to that after the show. I'm curious. >> Yeah. And it also it also makes you think like damn like it probably is going to help the air quality in the room because all that gunk that does get through it's going into the room. So >> it's kind of like oh [ __ ] >> My mini split filter at the worst was getting clogged up like every 10 days with just that >> that sediment white particle [ __ ] that would get all over the filters. And you know I I would be like at the gym or something. I would get a notification on my phone that the room was over the limit. It's like 88 degrees in there. I'm like, "God damn, it happened again." Like, it just gets so clogged up by I was worried that it was drywall dust for a little bit, but I was like, "No." I I loo, you know, did some research. I'm like, "No, this is my humidifier." And I I learned about the evaporative humidifier. I got one and just immediately the cages were covered in white and dust. And I'm like, "This can't be good for the snakes. This is in their lungs, too." Like, I felt I felt shitty, but I'm like, "Man, what's worse?" like at least before I found out about the adaptive humidifier. What's worse having kind of like a poor air quality or having like 10% humidity in the room? >> Yeah. >> So, I mean either or bad, you know? Um >> Yeah. >> Just because like dude, I'm realizing like even though the animals seem okay, poor humidity really does a toll on these animals, man. But especially when it comes to like you again keeping them, you might not really see an issue with it, but when it comes to breeding, you're going to see some things not go the right way all because something's off with your husbandry. And that that was me, man. Maybe call me a lazy keeper. I don't know what it was, but there were just some things I just didn't really care to fix because I didn't see an issue with it until breeding [ __ ] happened. I lost that female that went egg bound. Um, and she had a bunch of [ __ ] [ __ ] packed into her. Like, she had old she had old [ __ ] stuck like stuck in her. Never seen that. Like for the most part, anytime a condro lays a clutch, they're cleared out. Like they might have a little bit of urates. Like I I remember saw one one time I saw maybe a little tiny, you know, bow movement, but it's not a huge it's not a lot. Like they're they're cleared out for the most part. And this snake could not pass her eggs because there was a huge dried up [ __ ] [ __ ] urates all in the way that I had to squeeze out of her. And it was [ __ ] terrible, man. Um, and again that's kind of going back to like like I was spraying that female a lot. Like I was um but then again I realized I didn't that was when I had my panel issue like the panel was really high and she never left the panel. So she was just probably just drying out as soon as I was spraying her. >> Yeah. >> One of the things I definitely want to give props about I felt like that helped me a lot this year with my females laying successfully and bouncing back is soaking your females. Man, shout out to Billsteagle. Bill's a big uh soaker advocator. You know, he always talks about he soaks his female twice after pre-lay shed and then soaks a good Yeah. soaks a good uh 24 hours after they shed or after they lay. And so that's exactly what I did. So basically, um what I what I what I do is I put them I I soak them probably about two days before they shed. Okay? And then I'll soak them a week after they shed. M >> um which is kind of close to their due date because they typically lay about 14 15 days right after their shed. >> But dude, they drink, bro. They drink. I don't put them in there for long. It's like maybe a 15 20 minute soak. >> Okay. >> Um but you know that hydration is so important, bro. Uh because I'll tell you right now based off what I'm observing. >> Once those females are in that point where they're getting ready to lay, they do not go seek water for the most part. They're not. Yeah. >> They're they're ready to lay, you know. Um, and something in their mind tells them they just got to worry about laying. They don't worry about drinking. Um, the thing is they'll drink if their water's on them. Like if you spray them, they'll drink. You know what I mean? But I feel like being some sort of an assistant, helping them hydrate before they lay super crucial, dude. Because again, yeah, >> coming off that [ __ ] experience was not easy. Like going from >> that egg bound situation, that female died in my hands. It sucked. Like that was, man, that was my Vinsky bline girl. Uh, was not easy to deal with. But again, I just was like, "What can I do differently?" And all I could think about was like she was not properly hydrated. Like that was a dehydr even though she didn't she didn't even look dehydrated. She looked fine. >> But again, if she has [ __ ] stuck in her, hello, something's wrong. Like she should not have backed up [ __ ] in her at all. >> Yeah. >> And and then all I could think about is like every time I soak these females, bro, they somehow [ __ ] or something comes out of them. Like that's And so I'm like, damn it. like if I would have soaked I pro I'm pretty sure she would have passed this like she or or you know if I would have um at least done something about it a lot earlier sooner >> that [ __ ] wouldn't have been so compact and hard you know and and and again there's a reason why emeralds are notorious for holding on their shits until you let them out and you put them on the ground and some of these snakes you know again if you're not I'm not trying to say everyone's husbandry is wrong if you have to do this but I have to do this from time to time I'll I'll see an emerald and I'm like damn you haven't [ __ ] in a while like you know I'm going to take you out and as soon as I take their perch out and they go on the ground they [ __ ] So it's like there's just times where you got to step in. Um and if you don't step in just you don't be ready. It's not going to be it's not going to be fun. >> But yeah >> yeah I think the hydration man uh you know obviously what what leads the what leads to good humidity is hydration. Humidity it's they're hydrated with good humidity. uh something you don't have to worry about is is uh as is it being a factor is when you have high humidity, they're more likely hydrated already. And so with this female that had the issue with that was uh that was all backed up, that was even before my humidity got addressed. Like this this was happening when I had poor humidity and my panels were being overused. So once that once that went down, I was like enough is enough. I'm like I'm [ __ ] like I'm soaking now or I got to figure something out. And that's what I did. I actually figured something out going into all the clutches I got the rest of the year, which I got six clutches this year. So, yeah. And every female b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b bounced back perfectly. I could I could breed every girl again this year if I want. I'm not I'm going to give I'm probably going to give at least three girls off. Um but some other girls look like they never even laid. They look [ __ ] just fantastic. So, >> wow. >> Yeah, man. Uh husbandry, man. Husbandry, adjusting. That was it. That was that was it for me. Um, at least I could think, you know, none of this is for sure. This is all anecdotal as Bill Steaggle will say. But yeah, I I that's that it was quite the uh quite the change, man. Um like when I what from what I can see with my animals, the way they're [ __ ] the way they're shedding, the way they're breeding, they're happy. >> Yeah, that's great. So, was there anything else that you switched up? be it the way that you were feeding, the the way that you were pairing. What else do you attribute anything else to your increase in success? >> I didn't change anything else. I feel like I feel like I always got the food cycling thing down like that was something that I already knew that was an important thing. Um, >> and I think that really helped me with the emeralds, you know, because I had that emerald litter last year that wasn't as good as this year obviously, >> right? Um, but I saw like I saw what that whole food cycling thing does for the like like you know again you could only um I'm not trying to say you can't really notice it with ball pythons because it's more just like just machine feeding but yeah >> with emeralds man there's just a certain time where you hit them with a certain size meal and then boom it happens. [clears throat] Um, but leading up to that, like giving them enough smaller meals and all that stuff really, really is a huge factor. And so I always knew like, yeah, there's a

There's a time where the condos aren't eating and there's a time they are going to be eating. And so I didn't change none of that. And I I feel like I'm always sticking to where right now we're approaching fasting. So there's going to be no feeding for December all the way up to about the end of January. So first fe first first week of February, I'll introduce food again.

>> Okay? And then about a week later or so, I'll introduce males.

>> Okay.

>> And and that that's one thing I'm, you know, last year I was pairing in November. Like LA a year ago, I had everything paired up because I was just trying to figure out like, you know, because you got people like Garrick, you got other people in my area who are breeding right now and they have success. And I've never really gotten good results pairing September through December. Like, yeah, I might get one to go, but I'm not getting seven to go. Like, I always get like it's like a weird one-off situation of who's going. So instead of even just wasting the male's time um or even like you know going too early, I just I'm just chilling out. Like I'm I'm not in a rush to get everything paired up as I normally am because normally I'm like, "Oh my god, it's October. Oh my god, my first [ __ ] you know, cold night. I'm going I'm breeding, you know, like I'm I know there's a time and place demographically for all that stuff."

[laughter]

>> Yeah, but you know, you're in San Antonio or Wait, San Antonio, right? No, San Jose. El Paso. Okay, San Jose. You're you're in El Paso. So yeah, you you're you're not in SoCal, bro. Like I

>> my weather is like still tropical here. Like it's we're getting cold nights, but the days are now just now getting cold. We'll still get an 88 87 day out of nowhere. Um

>> but I know once January hits, bro, it's cold. Like it's

>> Yeah,

>> it's 60s. You know what I mean? So um and again, that's where I see most of [ __ ] go down. That's where I see all the locks go down for me is that February once midFebruary all the way up to June is where I see [ __ ] go down.

>> Okay. Okay. So then during that time when you are pairing them up how frequently are you feeding your females?

>> Uh every 10 days every 10 days to a week like sometime every seven to 10 days honestly it just depends on the size of meal. Um, like I had a couple last year where I was I was doing the mice thing and so I was giving them mice like every five every seven days like I just kind of like almost not even pay like like I I mean there might even been a time where I gave a backtoback mice like just cuz they were that small and I was just testing it out and they just wanted to [ __ ] eat. And so, but then if I gave one like a wean rat, that was like once every 10 days. Like if it was if it was a smaller rat, it was uh like every an every 10 day thing. But if it was a mouse, every sevenday thing.

>> Okay.

>> Um I think this year I'm just going to stick to wean rats. I don't think I'm going to worry about mice this year.

>> And why is that?

>> Just because like less is more. Like I hate the whole like, oh my god, let me feed you every three, five days. like if it's going to work with just one every 10 days

>> and I I don't I don't think it takes that much. Like I don't think it's like that much of a huge like

>> oh I got to feed him this frequent like it's they just need to know something's happening like it's

>> Yeah.

>> And and again I think shout out to David Brahms. I had David Brahms on last year or last night.

>> Yeah.

>> And he's like dude he's like he's like I think it gets to the point where these females become so seasoned where food cycle or not they're gonna go. They don't give a [ __ ] Like if they if they got if they got the amount of food in them, no matter if you're feeding them less or more, they're going to go at that point because they're seasoned. Like they're if they're getting the locks, they're paired up, you know, the females just go. But

>> some I I feel like first- time females need that trigger. Like a lot of females have never been paired before, you have to let them know there's a certain time of year where it's time to go. All right. Especially if you're getting pounded. So we got to figure this out. And so

>> yeah.

>> Yeah. I I uh what were we talking about again? What was it?

>> The frequency of of meals and why rats over.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know. And I could change that. I could, you know, something in me could be like I'm going to switch to mice. I don't know, bro. Like I don't Yeah. I'm not trying to stick to one thing. Like if something doesn't feel right or whatever, I'll go to mice. I don't know. I'm just Yeah, I'm not onedirectional. Like at this point, I'll I'll And then also ASFs, man. Shout out to ASFs. I [ __ ] love ASFs. I think I think ASFs are the ultimate prey item for a condro. I don't think there I don't think there's anything better

>> based off based off bowel movements, based off body condition, the way they grow off of it. All my all my babies baby condras have been established off of uh ASF minus maybe like seven pain in the asses that were like late starters. They're on ASFs now. So, but everything that I'm raising up, everything that actually sold have been on ASF, dude. And the very a first ASF most of them had had completely fur all over it. It was like a pink ASF completely covered in fur.

>> And I'm like that has to be way better than a [ __ ] just a pink mouse pink, you know?

>> Yeah. So, I I know there's a question in there uh that somebody asked me about prolapses. And man, the whole the whole prolapse thing is such a [ __ ] crazy topic because you think you think you finally you think you're finally on to something where you're like, "Yeah, I'm not going to get no more prolapses." And bro, I went a long time without getting any prolapses. I was Alex Alex Warren, he was like, "Dude, MJ, you're going to get one." I'm like, "No, [ __ ] that." At this point, I would have had one. Um, but eventually they did come. So, I ended up getting one randomly. Like I got my first prolapse this year from a snake that had like eight meals in it. Had already like already had its second shed. Looked great. Came in prolapse and I'm like, "Oh my god." And so did my thing where and I learned from this cuz I it instantly went in to go put it back in on it, you know, to help put it back in and it and it wouldn't stay in. And I don't know if it was something I damaged. I don't know, man. Like nobody's really knowing how to put these prolapses back in. Yeah, we look at videos and stuff, but nobody really knows the way where we're not damaging them. You know what I mean? So, this prolapse, which I've never had a prolapse not stay in. Like, this prolapse just wouldn't stay in. It would go in. I'd put my thumb over it 5 minutes, 10 minutes, and it would just pop out. I even had to put a band-aid over it, it would still pop out. So, I chocked up this I chocked up this specific prolapse where like you're just not meant to be on Earth. Like, I think there's something eternally wrong with you.

>> Yeah.

>> Something might have happened. I don't know. But and I just I put it down because I was like it's not staying in. And so and that was my first one. And so I was like, "Oh shit." I was kind of on on edge.

>> Yeah.

>> And then and then the next one of prolapse, well actually I would say the next two to prolapse was um where I went to the Dodger game. I went to the World Series Dodger game. And that whole day was like a chaotic day, you know, and it was a kind of a spur-of the- moment thing. I forgot to refill my humidifier, so my room was really dry. I was gone basically for a whole almost a whole 20 hours, dude. Um, and of course, and and and they were all just fed, too. So, I came home I came home to two that were prolapsed and I was like, and then and and instantly, dude, that the paper towel was drier than [ __ ] the Mojave Desert. Like, I was like, dude, I didn't I didn't want to chalk up that prolapse to like a feeding thing because I felt like it was my room. My room dried out. Um and and the good thing about those prolapses is once I took them off the perch, they went in on their own. The prolapse I didn't have to do anything. Yeah.

>> So, and that and that made me feel good about that. And so,

>> the good happy story about those two, they're still here and they're fine. They their their prolapses went in on their own. I gave them I finally I gave them a twoe break with no meals, with no perch. And I finally gave them a meal a week ago and they both had bowel movements. One just shed with the bow movement. Prolaps is not out. Um, I gave them back their perch, which that's going to be the true test. I think like the next few meals is we're kind of like it's like a restart over again. It's like, oh man. Because I've I've had prolapses be fine for the next two meals and the third one it came out again. So

>> yeah,

>> it's it's honestly an unsettling thing. I I feel like prolapses is never something you could just set it and forget it. Like it's I think and that's why I don't I don't think I would ever No, I know I would never sew a prolapse. I wouldn't um

>> just because I'm like dude like

>> I don't know I just you know what you know the outcome um

>> right

>> and so

>> yeah I don't know man it's it's such a weird thing I know that there um are cases where you could get real lucky and not have any prolapses but man I had 70 of them and out of the 70 of them three prolapse and and and again I think only one of those were really meant to prolapse the other two I think were on me I think that was kind of in my So yeah, and you know, I I'll chalk it up, dude. One prolapse out of 70 when I when I had I had nine out of 15 prolapse on me once, you know what I mean? One one clutch.

>> So that was also really heavy on my shoulders going into this year is like, okay, cool. Like, let's say you get all these babies. How are you going to handle all these prolapses? Like, are you really willing to go through all that? Like that was sitting in my head. It's like like, dude, MJ, like this is you've been down this road before. like you get the babies out, but there's prolapses. Like how are we going to stop these? And so I was again I just was on top of my [ __ ] with the humidity.

>> I want to also say what probably helped me this year, dude, with besides feeding them ASFs, filtered water, bro. Um, yeah,

>> one one thing I been one thing my dumb ass did and I'm the only one who call myself a dumbass by the way. All right, just I want that to be [ __ ] I want that the record to be out there real quick. But one one of the things I Shut up, Stephen. One of the things that I did la I've been doing u like last year I told myself do filtered water which I did but I was spraying them with tap water.

[laughter]

>> So, I was seeing how some of these were f like, okay, so let's kind of go to last year's clutches, right? I had that one egg out of 18 eggs make it. Remember Mimi laid a clutch. 17 slugs, one good egg.

>> Yeah,

>> that's fish. Yeah,

>> fish is a legendary pure bak. I know. I probably coattail this a lot. I have probably the nicest pure bak being raised in the hobby right now. Fish.

>> No, it is what it is. I got I got bets out there on how much green fish is going to turn. Not a lot. I'm betting a lot of money on it right now, just so you guys know.

>> I know Box and there's not any green on that Bakude.

>> Um, but hold on. Where were we going out with? Oh, yeah. So, basically, I had that and then the the next clutch after that, which was from uh the Numford uh Houdini, she gave me 15 good eggs and all 15 went the distance. And so, when I had that results, that's when I was like, dude, I'm not [ __ ] around. Filtered water. Um, and again like I ended up having I think like four of those prolapse out of the 15. Um, but then I also noticed like man their urates didn't look right. Like and and it looked like black urates like from bad water. Like I've I've seen pictures I've seen people send me pictures of like MJ why does my urates look like this? And it has to come down to the water quality. Like if it's not a white pearly looking urate um there's something up with the water. And so with that being said, um I noticed ever since I fixed the the water qu named after Marshall's band going to be so green. [ __ ] you, dude.

[laughter]

[ __ ] you, Ryan. What the [ __ ] Hey, Brian. Let Ryan, let's let's bet one of your pure monorories, red monorories on that. All right, [ __ ] Dude, what a guy. I love you, Ryan.

[laughter]

But dude, one thing I noticed with the water quality, bro, you get these you get these white urates. You get these nice clean looking shits. Again, with the ASF, bro, I get these ropey perfect looking form shits, which is so much better than a smeared [ __ ] diaper rash goddamn [ __ ] that you could get with some of these condro, which just can't be good for their gut system. Like, you got to understand if if you're getting nothing but um smeared bowel movements that are all like liquefied and they're not formed, that has to tell you something, man. There's something up with that prey item.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Thanks, Ryan. Appreciate that.

[laughter]

I think Ryan is somebody who could call me a dumbass and I I would be like well played. So, but also it goes both ways street, pal. All right, I got topics on you, too. So, don't [ __ ] don't don't thrifty Scotsman over there.

>> Yeah, [ __ ] goddamn uh the super ham. Oh, man. I need to get

>> We got to go. We I'm literally Yeah, I want to see uh I want to see his collection obviously, but nothing is more important than getting a super ham. Dude, my leg's tightening up right now. Yeah. No, I mean I I'm honestly like I I hope it's good, but man, if it's if it's kind of trash,

[snorts]

[sighs]

>> that'd be so disappointing. Like, man, I've treked out to the middle of nowhere for a mid super ham.

>> It has to be uh has to be heavy on it. You know what I mean? I'm I'm for sure going to need a nap or some [ __ ] afterwards.

>> I mean, you'll have a lot of time in the car driving back out to Ryan's place, you know, the hour and a half drive back home from the Thrippy Scotsman. So,

>> yeah. Yeah, but if Ryan's telling stories or something, I'm not sleeping. I'm listening all

>> bumping white horse the entire way back.

[laughter]

>> No, man. But water quality, bro. I I really think uh you know, like looking at last year how I was still using tap water to spray and some of these condos weren't [ __ ] right and then this year I didn't see any of those urates. I didn't see any of those those grainy sandy gray black [ __ ]

>> offcolored urates. I didn't see none of that this year, dude.

>> Um so yeah. Yeah, water quality, bro. Water quality, I think, helped me a lot, too.

>> Okay. Uh, you mentioned earlier that you went you, uh, you know, hooked up with Garrick on figuring out the incubation. What did you change? And, uh, because, man, I mean, that 100% hatch rate, my my overall scrub hatch rate is less than 50. So, like, I'm I want to figure out what the [ __ ] to do. I I you know when Ryan was here he like he did with you like put me on game with a lot of stuff that I'm like oh man if if if he is right then which I don't doubt at all. I'm like this could actually finally be the year that stuff goes right for me and I've been knowing the [ __ ] out of him so far with like you know two degrees here there pairing on. I'm like you know he's probably sees my message come through and he's like god damn it. But um

>> this kid again,

>> what do you Yeah. What do you switch up with your incubation this go around?

>> So I mean I've done it I don't want to say I've done a bunch of different things. I've always used sim containers

>> for the most part. Um

>> I mean there's been times where I never had any holes just like completely just whatever. Just put the lid on top over water. I was for the most part I was I was very overwater. Like that was like my substrate. Yeah.

>> But I wasn't getting the best results. I was still getting a lot of full-term dead in the eggs over water.

>> So, it wasn't until I finally went to Brian Susan's house and he showed me how he does his tree monitors

>> um and his tree monitor eggs go into this big Tupperware, like circular Tupperware, almost like a salad bowl with a lid. Yeah.

>> Um and it's [ __ ] filled with perlite. Like I'm talking like a salad bowl like this big and it's like this much filled with perilite and there's like the uh the you the light diffusers on top and then he puts the eggs on top but it's heavily substrate perlite substrate. And so I was like I'm just going to do that. I'm going to put perlite at the very bottom of the sim container. I'm going to soak it and then put like maybe a dry layer on top and then I'm just going to put the plastic crates right on right over it. And so

>> yeah,

>> I did that. uh tested it out on some go um some goies just to make sure that it was going to be 100% humid or 99.9% humidity and it was so I was like all right I feel confident about this but then also what Garrick told me is um and I could be wrong about this because there I can't remember if he does holes or not but I have holes that are drilled on the side and at the end of the tubs but they're not all exposed they're all taped off for the most part I want to say it's like

>> four on one side four on the other side long ways and then like two and two on the ends. Right.

>> Okay.

>> But but I do leave the ends at least have one hole open. So I left one tiny hole open on each end for the whole entire course of the incubation. Um and I cooked it at so my incubator temperature which I think is different from Garrick but I did this learning from Gary um 87.2 is what I set it to.

>> Okay. So, and and and if honestly, dude, like, yeah, you're going to have times where it goes to 87.2 to 871 or And it's not a big it's not a big [ __ ] deal. Like, that used to freak me out. Like, OH MY GOD. LIKE, WHAT? BUT IT JUST ADJUST.

>> You can make it work within like a threederee window.

>> Yes. And Gary also told me like, MJ, don't [ __ ] worry because I would I would panic to him like, why does it say this? And it was saying he's like, MJ, you're fine. Like, just don't worry about it. So, I that was my that was my my go-to number as far as what I like to cook for 40 days. 87.2 87.1 and then at day 40 I go straight down to 85. So at day 40 I would go down to 85 and I open up all the air holes. I was doing it like opening up the air holes little by little as the days were going by. But now once day 40 hits all air holes are open.

>> Okay.

>> And and that temp drops down to 85. Um

>> Okay. And I did that with every clutch. And every clutch pipped on day 53 and every single [ __ ] snake came out of the egg and perched. They all didn't make it. Like I think I only I had um ended up having like three end up rolling like a day or so after coming out, you know, after like literally them perching and me giving them a number. They die of course.

>> Yeah.

>> Um, but

>> yeah, I mean at the end of the day, they still came out, you know. So and also these are all living things. Like I I wasn't thinking to myself, oh yeah, like these are all like we all know how this game works, dude. Like you know, getting out the egg is one thing and then it's all about how they eat. And so I already know like you know the whole celebration thing with condro does not happen till like ever like even now like I'm still not safe. Like I'm still you know I got to make sure my humidity is still good. You know I don't you know I can't [ __ ] around right now you know. So

>> yeah I kind of keep myself on my toes by thinking that way but you know Yeah, I would say. Yeah. What was I my mind's going left now.

>> The you said you just had a couple of them that were hatched.

>> Yeah. So Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. The ones as far as that made it. So, yeah. Out of the 70 um and with the ones that with when the ones that prolapsed, so I had one that prolapsed and didn't make it. So, 64 I think is what I ended up ended up with out of 70 as far as like that's alive on Earth right now. pretty damn good.

>> Yeah,

>> it's amazing.

>> Yeah, dude. So, I mean, again, very, very happy, dude. And I think one of the best things is putting some of this stuff in people's collections. Like, especially people who've been following me for a while. I see a couple people in the chats and like that was awesome, man. Like, cuz I like, man, like I wanted to give these people snakes five years ago. I just wasn't ready or there yet. And the fact that they snuck around and are here now and it's like, oh, man. It's a good feeling, dude. It really is.

>> But,

>> oh yeah. So, at this point, I mean, now that I don't want to say you've got it figured out because none of us ever do, but now that you have this much better idea about what you're doing, do you have a long-term kind of outlook of this is how many clutches or how many babies you're kind of like generally wanting to shoot for every year, or are you not even thinking like that?

>> I mean, yeah. Here's the thing, man. Like, I I feel like after having a year like this, the whole like quantity of things is like I mean, that's cool, but I rather breed for just like quality like like meaning like

>> like I don't want to pair just a pair. Like I don't want to be like, "Oh, okay. I guess I'll that male is not going to get the job done. Let me just throw a homeboy in there who's like just a a sarong or something." Like I I have I have designer males.

>> I have nine designer males that are ready to [ __ ] rock and roll. Okay? So, one of those [ __ ] better get it done. Um, and if not, I kind of want to just either figure it out the next year, but I I kind of, you know, Mark Hager taught me this, like, you know, whatever pairing you have in mind, that's the pairing. Like, no

>> no no switcheroos, no [ __ ] like stick stick to it and see what happens. And so, I had that mentality going into next this coming year. But again, like I have backup males for backup males. So, even if one male isn't getting the job done, I could go to another male. So, honestly, man, with all the males that I have ready this year, I I could

>> I could probably produce more next year than I did this year. Um,

>> yeah,

>> because I had I had out of the seven,

>> excuse me, six, well, seven. Yeah, cuz I have another clutch that's about to lay. I have another clutch that's literally about to lay in 10 days or 15 days. So, that's my seven, I guess. I don't Do we count that this year? How does that work? Does that count for this year or next year? Can we get an agreement in the chat on how that works, please?

>> I I had a tiger rat clutch that was laid super offseason. And it was I it was late in October of last year and they hatched in January. I counted them for this year, but that's just me. I think it counts when the babies are born. See,

[snorts]

>> I thought about that. I'm like, "Okay, I think it should count when they actually come out and they're they're

>> But then but again, I think I could at least say I got seven clutches."

>> Like because I'm that clutch is a clutch. That's a clutch. I didn't say I'm not saying Okay, so let's say she gives me 15 eggs. I'm not gonna say I hatched 85 babies this year.

>> Yeah. But you got seven.

>> I think that's reasonable. You could say that.

>> Cap. Yeah.

>> But I could say I got seven clutches.

>> Yeah.

>> So I guess you could say the clutch, but you could actually say how many did you hatch the

>> technicality? Your technicality, you know.

>> Yeah.

>> You know, same same but different.

>> Trans.

[laughter]

>> No, but honestly, um, dude, I don't know, man. I don't have a number in my head, dude. I'm not scared. I'll tell you that much. I could take on a hundred babies easily. No.

>> Okay, hold on, gods. I'm so sorry. I take that back. I did not mean to say easily. That's not an easy thing, but I want the smoke. I want 100. I I I think that's my next big feat is 100 eggs, 100 established or whatever. 120 eggs, 100 established. I just want to establish a 100 condos in one year. That's that's my next big huge And it could happen five years from now. I don't give a [ __ ] Like [ __ ]

>> Yeah. Well, because dude, I mean, somebody has to, you know what I mean? Rico's a huge inspiration to me. I never got to meet the guy, but we're friends with a lot of those

>> people who've been close to Rico, like Gary, like Ryan, many others, Marshall,

>> and uh, man, I I if I could carry any bit of that guy's energy, I'm all for it, bro. Like, if I could be a a mini Rico, I will be a mini Rico all day, every day. PLEASE, BECAUSE SOMEBODY HAS TO DO IT, STEPHEN. It's it's man it's it's crazy to see the you know the evolution of the Condro community. It's been uh you know it's been wild to watch from from the outside looking at me. What what's your outlook on it at this point moving forward? Obviously there's a lot of new people getting into it. What what are your thoughts on the longevity of some of these newer keepers in the Condros?

>> I mean I'm trying to be more open-minded. Like I I don't I don't like the pushy ones. You know, you you have ones that are like trying to like do stuff like research-wise and it's like, dude, you just got your first condor. Like, relax, okay? Like, [ __ ] enjoy it for a little bit, you know? But, and I get it. Like, I was that excited individual. But

>> yeah,

>> I want to be clear. I would have never started a podcast without Forest. I would have never done it. Like, the only reason why I went on to a show to open up my big mouth is because I had someone like Forest with all the experience to be there with me and to help me along the way. And he was my mentor. and he helped me out a lot and stuff like that. Um, but again, dude, just kind of just enjoying the moments, you know, um, being a student and just learning as the days go by is the best thing. And, and but again, bro, you can't teach that to some people. Like, I just feel like there are some people getting into the Condro game that are on a rush. Like, they're in a rush it seems like. And it seems like they're trying to hurry up to figure things out. And it's like, okay, like let me know how that goes.

>> Yeah. Let me know how Let me know how being in a rush goes. like let me know when like you know making all these payment arrangements because you need all these condos this year h like goes like and again I'm not trying to knock nobody down but it's like dude what's the rush like

>> like why do you why do you have 20 different condo payments like why where like where what's going on like why are you why do you need this much like and again not to do your thing but in my in my head that's what I'm thinking I'm like god damn

>> yeah you know at the end of the day I I people are going to [ __ ] around and find out like this is dude going back to what my old friend said to me back in the day how it's not for the faint at heart. That is so true. Uh and there's a lot of [ __ ] fragile people out there who might not know how to recover off certain losses that they're going to experience. The condro game will kick you so hard in the balls, bro. And it will give you it will make you feel bitter.

>> But as long as you have that that passion and you know I don't care what these things do to me, I'm still going to keep them. You you'll be just fine. Um, and just honestly enjoying for what they are. You know, like again, you know, people [ __ ] on the ball python game because people >> stopped remembering what a real ball python looks like. You know, I think Nick Mutton said that. Nick Nick Mutton says, "I I don't think people know what a real ball python looks like anymore. It's a it's a lost, you know, kept species because where it's at." And and I'm I'm I'm not saying the ball python game is terrible. I love everything that it's doing. But this is not the same thing anymore. And so we want people to realize what a green tree python is, you know what I mean? And and what an emerald treeboa is and and knowing just the keeping side of things.

>> Yeah.

>> Like I had people tell me their breeding plans before their first Neo, dude. And it's like [ __ ] wild to me, man. Like what makes you think it's that like what? Again, I'm not trying to say you can't get there, but what makes you think it's that [ __ ] cool? Like you're going to go breed. Like I don't know. It's not meant for everybody, dude. I don't care. I don't care what anyone says. I could come off snobbish. I could come off like I'm elitist, but no, this shit's not meant for everybody and not everyone has the same passion behind it. So, but there are ones that do and and I feel like with the amount of people that are coming in, we are going to have the real ones that are willing to get, you know, take the [ __ ] licks on the chin and just figure it out, like myself. Um,

>> yeah,

>> but there's a lot of hype behind everything right now, bro. Like, hype is everything in this goddamn hobby. And you know what's unfortunate is you got a lot of people that like to talk more behind their, you know, versus their work, which I feel like that's kind of fading out because right now financially people are struggling. So the whole like making it seem like you're here doing something when you're just really speaking. You're making no money off the breeding. You're not making any money in the industry. You're just running your mouth. That's you're going to have to figure out something else to do at some point because it's not paying your bills. And so that's luckily like the whole phonies are starting to figure out something else to do with their life because it's not working out for them. Thank God. But um but you got the real ones, man. You got the people like ourselves and many many others that we're associated with that are gonna [ __ ] really really drive this hobby to the next level. Um and that's what it's all about, man. Like I, you know, I try to stay around like-minded people, bro.

>> And that's it. You can't tell me who to hang out with. You can't tell me I I get we should be kind to everyone, and I'm working on just being more kind to everybody. I I want to be that way. But can't tell me who to be around. You can't tell me who to listen to. You can't tell me who to [ __ ] be mentored by. you can't tell me [ __ ] Like it's it's all personal choice. And so, um,

>> and that's what I, man, there's so many awesome like like-minded individuals in this hobby who changed my life. And I know you could attest to that. I could I can make this I can make this episode all

>> [ __ ] all two hours of just me giving flowers to people who've helped me in this hobby. I really can. And I can and I can tell you how much I love each and one of these individual people. Um, and you know exactly what I'm talking about.

>> No question. Yeah. 100%. Yeah. I mean, it's [snorts] I I feel like we're coming to like and I I hope I'm right kind of the end of that postcoid kind of downturn of the industry where so many people were getting out and there was this overabundance of supply. I I kind of almost feel like that period is nearing the end of like a lot of those, you know, fly by night, quick in, quick out, that whole thing is kind of in the past. I don't know. What What do you think? Do you think that we're still feeling some of the waves of the postcoavid kind of downturn of the industry?

>> Yeah. I mean, you can you can see all the sinking ships in the hobby right now. Like a lot of the sinking ships are people who are trying to be on this overnight success sensation in the hobby that they think people could get, which you just can't. And and mind you, dude, like you could start your own podcast and you could do whatever the [ __ ] you want, but if you're not really bringing any substance, if you're not really doing anything to relate to reptiles, how far do you expect to go? Like,

>> yeah,

>> again, this is a reptile hobby. And what's crazy is you got people who aren't even reptile people trying to be a part of the hobby. Um, and that was a part of co I think you got a lot of people who were just thinking they wanted to be a part of this, but it was more like trying to be cool or something. I don't know. I can't really think for these people. I don't want to to be honest. But um

>> that's definitely I that the whole phony era is slowly simmering down. It's slowly starting to come down um to the end I think. And we'll always dude we're always going to have [ __ ] wannabes. We're always going to have

>> Yeah, sure.

>> It's social media like we can't we can't control what people do on social media. Um but when it comes down to like who's who, we all know, come on now. We're not we're not stupid, you know?

>> Yeah. Absolutely. uh kind of as we're winding down a little bit here, I want to talk about that emerald litter a little bit because

>> yeah,

>> that one was very near and dear to me as well. Um so I guess I guess to start it off, I mean, how are all those babies doing that you held back? I see you post them every now and then and my god, they're

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah, [snorts] man. That was [ __ ] man. I honestly, dude, I know this sounds crazy, but take away all 70 condro that I hatched out this year and if I just had the emerald babies, I would still be pretty excited. I I was already considering

>> the emerald success being the [ __ ] highlight of my year. And it kind of is to be honest. I I would say it really is because what I went through last year,

>> my female had retained 13 fully turned babies that I had to cut I had to cut her open to look at these by the way. Very very trauma, very very traumatic. Um

>> so going into the you know this this year's litter

>> again paid real close to attention as far as basking. Uh, Coach Rice was a huge Yeah, I got to give all my all my respects to Coach Rice for guiding me through the entire process again this year. Um, you know, giving her a proper basking at a certain time of the day, turning it off, ambience, humidity being on point, hydration, all that just came into a factor and I feel like that's what made me have success this year. Um, but again, we'll see what happens this year, uh, coming next year. But

>> yeah,

>> yeah, I got nine. I got nine to come out. Out of the nine, two of them had a a prolapsed belly, which that was like, you know, we talked about prolapses with condos. Well, guess what? With [ __ ] emeralds, they prolapse their stomach. It's terrible. Uh because if some of these babies come out with others that aren't fully as fully developed, their stomachs are more prone to be opened and the umbilical the umbilicus will pull out the guts basically.

>> Um so you got to be very very careful with that if you have a baby that isn't fully developed. And so I had two maybe three, no I had two of those babies where that happened and they ended up rolling the next day. I you know I ended up tying one of them off. Um and like you know and the belly just Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. Can't really explain. But the other uh seven or I'm sorry the other seven. Yeah. Um ended up selling four, held back three.

>> Okay.

>> And they're all doing great, bro. They're all They're all doing awesome. I've got my my little favorite one. I mean I love them all but man I I just I'm obsessed, bro. Yeah. They're they're doing great. Um, and yeah, bro, I I honestly want to relive that more than anything. I want I want another emerald litter. I really do. And that's why I'm even more adamant about just being dialed in with emeralds and condos, bro. Like I I probably first time I'm saying this publicly, but I have someone who's going to be taking all my ball pythons. So, guess what, Stephen? 16 feet worth of wall space, buddy. Yeah, let that

>> scrubs

>> maybe. Well, right now it's emeralds. So,

>> okay. My goal right now, what you see on this side, which is primarily condos, that's going to be the same side with emeralds.

>> I I have a lot of emeralds, bro. I have a lot of emeralds and they're all being kept in like, you know, camro tubs and I'm like, dude, you're getting too big for that. And so, I got some big [ __ ] things that need to be upgraded. So,

>> this is this is a [ __ ] huge bomb you just dropped on us.

>> Huge bomb. Yeah. So, listen, all everything's being worked out still. Yeah, I have a good buddy named Victor who I grew up in this game with and he's all excited. So, we still got to work some some some corks and kinks out, make sure everything's going to be okay. But yeah, the plan is he's taking my racks, my ball pythons. He's 12 minutes away from me. He's going to do all the breeding, which I'm still going to be tapped in with him with. He's going to do all the breeding, all the rodents. Okay. Um and [ __ ] all I have to do is worry about selling the babies. I love selling. No problem.

[laughter]

>> So, yeah. So, that's

>> Okay. So you haven't you didn't sell your collection. You're essentially partnering up with somebody. Okay. Got it. Got it.

>> Yeah. I'm not I'm not I'm not like out of the ball python game. I just I just found somewhere to put them.

[laughter]

>> So, and again, dude, so excited because there's nothing more than I want to just to walk in a room full of emeralds and condrs, bro. Um that and I'm talking like fully caged out, fully Oh, can I drop another bomb right now real quick? Um, very excited because I have somebody coming by driving cross country to deliver four huge purchase that he designed by hand. You know, Ron Rondo, the artist.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah,

>> bro. So, he did his work on my four Okay. You know where my tree monitors were in?

>> Yeah.

>> So, I have I have my I have my emeralds going in there,

>> right?

>> And he made me four of those [ __ ] purchase to go in those 4x4x4s. And I guess shipping would have been so expensive where it was actually cheaper for him to drive cross country. Um, but he's like, he wants to come see my place. He's like, I love San Diego. So, Ron Rondo is coming to my place, Cross Country, to install these perches that are going into these awesome focus cube 4x4 by twos that are going to be fully decked out. Bro, I'm decking these [ __ ] out. Like, they're going to be decked out. And I'm going to have a male cohabbing with two females the entire time.

>> I'm gonna I'm gonna straight zoo it, man. I'm see what I You know, mind you, there's um so 4x4 so 4x4 by twos that are next to each other. There's a tunnel like there's a good side. Remember how I had that tunnel for the male to go? So I have that. So in case I want the male to be with a certain female, I could just lock them or whatever the case. I could always pull them if things aren't working. But yeah.

>> Yeah, that's the goal. I want 1.2

>> in in uh each, you know, 8 by 2 by eight, I guess, when they're together. But yeah, that that whole side of the room, the warmer side of the room, Stephen, where the ball pythons are now, that's that's going to be all emeralds, bro. Nothing but emeralds. And then this side, all condos.

>> That's crazy.

>> Yeah, I'm excited. So, that's my next big thing I'm working with Focus Cube on. You know, Patrick inspired me a lot. Do you see his cages? The ones that with the bottoms that come out?

>> Yeah.

>> Yep.

>> Dude, [clears throat] my god, those look so tits. So, I'm I'm trying to think what what style I want to go with um and like what I want to do. I

like these, but so many people [ __ ] it on my like I don't like the doors or I don't like the thing in the middle. And like after a while I'm like, yeah, I guess if I could go back, I would rather not have something in the middle that's blocking my view. But I still like my doors, you know what I mean?

But but you know, I do listen to people and so not always, but I want, you know, I like the clear front and I want the mo I want it to be most most open, you know, like less like less of the bottom cut off. I'd rather have an open I'm I'm working with Stephen right now to design a certain enclosure where it's all open face, you could see everything and >> I'm gonna have it heavily planted and stuff like that. So, >> okay. >> Yeah. >> Wow. >> So, yeah.

So, yeah, that's this big big thing to look forward to for my changes in 2026. And, you know, it's going to be I'm going to take all year doing it. I'm not going to rush it. So, u but yeah, I'm excited, man. I got new you know, got some new snakes that are going to be coming in. So, a lot of big things popping off, bro. Damn. All right. That's awesome. Wow. That's uh that's that I I honestly didn't think I'd see the day when you didn't have the ball pythons there.

So, >> I do. I do. I do. I still They're just not here. >> I got the I have I have a rack. I'm going to keep the baby racks and stuff like that, but other than that, that whole wall space is going to be clear for me. So, >> wow. >> Yeah. I'm stoked. I'm excited. Um just kind of moving closer to the dream, and that's just working with what I just only want. And >> yeah, >> and then but also be good at breeding it. Like again, like I mean I had this success this year, but if I tank next year, I'm not celebrating. Like I want to continue this. Like >> this whole wave isn't going to die for me. Like I need to figure out how to have success the next 10 years somehow. So, but it's about being dialed in, bro. I mean, I'm gonna be dial I'm gonna be dialed the [ __ ] in um with the podcast, >> with everything. So,

>> yeah. I mean, I guess that that might segue into a good last thing to kind of touch on, but what are your what do you what do you see the the how you know the podcast transforming like over the next year? What's what's 2026 looking like for you think? >> Well, I mean definitely like I'm pretty solidified with the co with the host like the people who run it. Like yeah, >> couldn't be more happier, >> but man, I got so many other people that I want to be a part of this network that I'm talking to. >> So, we've already accomplished seven days a week. >> Yeah. Now we're looking at maybe multiple shows in a day. >> I'm not joking. And but I'm talking about like like good stuff. Like it's not repeat information. Like there's so many species out there, guys. Like there's so many different things that to be talked about that are not being talked about.

>> Um I could go down a list and I know you can too. Like you just you just said you have you at one point you had 60 species. Like are you telling me all those species are being covered right now? No. Like >> Oh yeah. No, definitely not. And but but the thing is they should be like there there are many things that need a spotlight in this hobby and they're not going to get a spotlight if they're not being talked about. And people come here to [ __ ] learn. Like say what you want about MJ and the drama. Well yeah bro I [ __ ] take on the drama but people come here to learn about drama about everything. They learn. You can't tell me this isn't a place to learn. You know what I mean? And so and I have dude I have the best in the game who come and drop [ __ ] episodes here. So, I'm not again I got I got a good amount of people that I still want to bring into the into the network. Um >> Okay. >> And then and then obviously like I got plans for you, Stephen. Like I if you want to think about who I think long term like Lifer you're it, man. Like if >> one of my biggest goals is to not only increase what I have going on for my life with this network, but I want that to impact your life. I want it to impact Chris's life. Emilios, uh, Dave Leon, [ __ ] anybody who commits to this network, bro. I want to just take on with them on this rocket ship that we're going, bro, because, dude, there's no sky's limit. Like, I'm talking to some crazy potential sponsors right now. Like, I got I'm talking to people that that will legit change our lives. You know what I mean? So, I don't want to lose focus on that. And and also, you know, stay relevant with the breeding because that's I'm here to breed first and foremost. But this network changed my life. And so, and I know it's changing your life, and I know it's going to change everyone else's life. That's a part of it. So, that's that's what I'm all about, man. I want to help everyone else who's been helping me. Um, I'm finally in a point in my life where I'm doing something for other people. I I was never known for that, but now I am. And it feels great. I don't want I don't want to do anything else but help people now. You know, not everyone. Don't get me wrong. I'm Don't give [snorts] me a reason, [ __ ] I'm I'm not Mr. Just roll over on me and I'll be No, but I do want to take care of people. So, just just don't be a dick. Just don't be [ __ ] don't be throwing stones when you're at the bottom. Just get out of the bottom and progress and then we'll, you know, we'll be good.

>> Yeah. >> See? >> Yeah, man. I'm excited. I'm definitely I I got an idea to run by you off off camera as well, I think. >> Sure. Um, but uh but yeah, I'm I mean obviously I'm I'm loving it and it's uh it's also like manag not connecting with as many people as you do on a weekly basis with >> rep I took like a having Enzo I took a couple weeks off and like bro something's missing out of my life like when I'm not doing podcasts and I'm not talking reptiles. >> Yeah. Um, I feel something's missing. Like, it's like it's it's such a huge piece of my life. And so, and if it wasn't, I wouldn't be doing it. Like, if I didn't enjoy this, like, if this wasn't bringing me pure joy and excitement and growth, I would not be do. The day I stopped growing, the day I stopped getting excited >> is the day I stopped doing trap talk. >> Yeah, >> I'll tell you that right now. I want people to know out there that it's my excitement and it's because I want to do it like this. I want to do this. Yeah. >> You know what I mean? Um, and I do things I want. I don't ever do things I don't want to do. If I don't want to, Going back to me being stubborn, Stephen, if I don't want to do something, I ain't doing it, bro. >> That's it. I don't give a [ __ ] It's my life. It's your life. >> Do what you want to do. >> Yep. [snorts] Absolutely. >> No question.

>> Well, [sighs] I think that's a great kind of a great sentiment to kind of round things out on for for today. Um, >> yeah. You know, I appreciate you taking the time this morning to get this show done. Appreciate everyone who was watching and listening, especially considering this was not a typical time for the episode. Um, I mean, shoot. Any any last words you want to leave the good people with before we get out of here? I mean, again, happy Thanksgiving to everybody. This is uh my favorite holiday of the year. So, I'm I'm stoked for tomorrow. So, >> yeah. Yeah, definitely just want to say again, happy Thanksgiving. Uh, Barry, be thankful, guys. Even if this wasn't the best year for you, man, it could be way worse. understand that life circumstances are heavier the the more you kind of look into it. So, just be thankful for everything that you have. I want to say thank you to everyone who's been supporting not me, not only me, but this entire network, the people part of the network. Um, and just thank you so much. Like you, your guys' support is a huge part of my fuel that I [ __ ] thrive off of. And you know, again, if it wasn't for the support that I get on a day-to-day basis and people telling me how much this is changing their life, dude, I wouldn't another reason why I'm not going to stop doing this. Um, so again, and also anyone out there too, guys, I know I know I've been quite the individual the last six, eight, six, seven years, whatever, dude. I I know I'm a work in progress. If I ever rubbed you off, rubbed you off. Pause. If I ever [laughter] >> if I ever if I ever rubbed you the wrong way or if I did something disrespectful, I I do want to say I'm sorry. Um I I don't mean to always seem like I'm after people. I just don't give a [ __ ] sometimes, but I do at the same time. I don't want to come off as somebody like I really don't care, but I do. It's just, you know, I'm just so locked into what the [ __ ] I'm doing that I have very minimal time to worry about other [ __ ] So again, if anyone out there felt like I disrespected them, I want to say from the bottom of my heart, sorry. Uh, don't give up on me. And to the ones who've never given up on me, thank you so much. Um the ones who stick by me, people like you, Stephen, you guys are family, I appreciate you guys so much. And again, even though this is going on six years in the making, this is only the beginning, dude. Mark my [ __ ] words. This is only the beginning. So >> y hell yeah. Well, MJ, thank you again for hanging out, doing the episode. This was [ __ ] awesome time. I really enjoyed it. >> Yeah, thanks guys. I appreciate it. >> And yeah, thank you everyone for watching and listening. So, uh, for for me, for MJ, for the network. Thank you to everybody. We'll catch you all back here next week for new episode.

>> Sorry for the interruption, folks. But a quick word from our sponsors. Green tree pythons, emerald tree boas, and plenty other aoreal snakes have been quite the popularity here at the Trap Talk Reptile Network, which brings me to today's sponsor, the Reptile Purge. Head over to the reptile perch.com and reptile perch on Instagram. See what type of design PVC perch is best for your boreal reptile. But first and foremost, I would also check out David Braum's green tree python availability on the website. And you can also check out his Instagram just to stay current on any projects or any productions that he posts. Thank you so much, David Braum, for your ongoing support. Looking forward to seeing what you have to show in the 2025 season. When you think about building a good community and being a leader of that community, nobody comes to mind better than Mark Hager over at Texas Condro. That's right. Make sure you head over to TXondro on Instagram and also head over to Mark's website. See what he has available green python wise and be ready for quite the 2025 green tree python breeding season out of Mark Hager. He's a veteran in the green tree python game. One of the best and nicest uh breeders in the green tree python game. He's been putting on the whole state of Texas for as long as I've known him. So, if you want to see all the amazing other condro keepers out of the state of Texas, another good reason to go follow Mark Hagar over at TXondro on Instagram and again head over to his website texasconcondros.com. You can find all the links in the description below. Thank you so much Mark Hagar for supporting the trap tree. One of the biggest growths we have in the reptile industry today are the rare species of reptiles that aren't worked with. That's right. That's why I went ahead and partnered up again with Brian Susan over at Sundown Reptiles. Brian works with species such as Cahooa geckos, gargoyle geckos, all species of tree monitors. He works with abonia and many other cool species geckos that you can check out all on his website. Head over to sundownretiles.com, see what he has available. Brian's one of the best doing it in the reptile industry today. He's been on the show multiple times. So, make sure you check out all of Brian Susan's episodes on Trap Talkretile Network, but more importantly, for the highest quality of captive bred reptiles, make sure you head over to Sundown Reptiles.com and make sure you give him a follow on Instagram. Thank you again, Brian Susan over at sundown reptiles. One of the things I love about being a part of the reptile industry is all the learning. Okay, learning can be fun and I could prove that to you. Thank you so much to today's sponsor, Gary Scabino over at GS Reptiles. I highly recommend you head over to his YouTube channel, follow all this man's content when it comes to learning about rare species of snakes you could be keeping in the hobby and also just finding out how easy a lot of these rare species of snakes are to keep in general. So, thank you so much, Gary Scabino of GS Reptiles. Again, head over to his YouTube channel. Also, head over to his Instagram to be on top of all of his current work and be ready for a big year over at GS Reptiles. Thank you so much, Gary, for your ongoing support. I really appreciate it.