This Weird 5-Minute Practice Beat YEARS of Meditation

Hundreds of times a day, my body, without any awareness for me, was going into fight or flight mode over and over. That's when we tend to have foggy thinking, poor performance, and rapid aging. Once I learned, I can honestly say, Dave, I made more personal gain and progress in three to four months than I did in years of meditation.

Dr. Rin McCrady is director of research at the HeartMath Institute and a pioneer of heart-brain coherence science. His team built a worldwide system that tracks how changes in the earth's energy affect our bodies. And his research proves you can train your heart in minutes a day to stay calm, think sharper, and handle stress better.

"Uh, the god helmet, five minutes a day, brains were becoming younger. Resting metabolic rate goes down. Okay. When we have higher resonant frequency, it's really about stealing the mind that enough that they could finally hear the voice of the heart. When you learn how to do it, you can hug someone and it'll change them. Bro, this is incredible work. God, you've taken those fields so far."

You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey.

What is heart rate variability? At its simplest level, heart rate variability is the beat-to-beat time change between each pair of heartbeats. Okay? So, the heart does not beat like a metronome. Okay? Like, actually, it used to be thought that was a sign of good health, right? Not that many years ago. It's completely wrong. Wow. A sign of good health, of resilience, and our ability to self-regulate has to do with how much of this variation that goes on in the time intervals between each pair of heartbeats. So, at one level, it's really simple. The beat-to-beat change in heart rate. So, we all know what heart rate is, right? How many times did the heart beat in a minute? But that's very different, right? That's just an average. When you look closely, you see that the time between each pair of heartbeats is always different. And that measuring that time interval is what heart rate, but it's what HRV is. Keep it short.

Now, in reality, you can spend an entire career. I've been studying HRV for 30 years. Wow. So, it's very simple on one level, but it's so deep and so much that it tells us about what's going on in the body once you understand what's under the hood of that. What creates heart rate variability? Now, go ahead. You look like you had another question.

Yeah, sometime in the early days, as I became a certified HeartMath trainer, and then I became an advisor to the company for a while, and I've worked for years in biohacking to explain what you just said. And where I ended up, and I want you to shoot holes in this, was you can think about 60 beats a minute. It's like da-dum, dum-dum. But if you had all 60 beats in the first second, that would be weird, but it's still 60 beats per minute. So, oh, 60 beats per minute doesn't really mean anything. It's just a big average. And what you're really studying is kind of like the music that's played by the heartbeat.

Perfect analogy, because HRV is ultimately what gives rise to the heart rhythm. Cuz what, and this is where a lot of people really don't understand the deeper aspects of HRV, it's really about the study of rhythm. Rhythm is everything. Rhythm has everything to do with what we call coherence. How coherent is the correlated and coronated, correlated behavior within our body systems? Now, you used a music example. It was perfect, Dave, because if you think of the heart and the heart's rhythm as the conductor of everything going on in our physiology, right? If the conductor gets frantic and frustrated and right, the music becomes discordant, uncoordinated, and chaotic, right? Absolutely. If the drummer's off, everything just... so it's the same thing.

Now, within HRV, there are multiple rhythms. So, you have two drummers, or at least one drummer with two drums. I have more like four drummers. Wow. Okay. Yeah. And that with different sources in the body. So, and most of the apps that are out there are measuring one little baby part of, not even measuring the rhythm. They're just measuring. Think of it this way. Think of waves. Mhm. So, you've got the amplitude of a wave. And that's what it's called time-domain statistics. Trying to get out how much variation up and down was. But it tells you nothing about, is it choppy seas or a coherent wave that has aligned energy? You follow what I mean? Uh, so you can have the same energy, say, at the beach, but if it's a bunch of choppy waves that are small but rapid and not even rhythmic, the amount of water moving could be the same as those big, beautiful waves that glide frequently. Exactly. Yeah. And choppy seas is not good, right? That's when we tend to have foggy thinking, poor performance, rapid aging, you know, messed-up relationships, and really the inability to maintain our composure. I would say when the blanks hit the fan. I guess I can say that here. But yeah, sure. Anything you want. Yeah. Okay. If there are four drummers that are controlling the rhythm of your biology, you can see why this might be relevant for biohacking. Totally. Right? Because we're talking about things like vagal tone. We've had multiple, multiple, multiple episodes talking about sympathetic and parasympathetic. And this is tied to that. All the episodes about cognitive function, even some of the 40 Years of Zen stuff, directly tied into these drummers.

So, when I look at my Aura ring, for instance, that's a measure, that morning readiness score is a measure of heart rate variability, but it's not all four drummers. It's just like the big bass drum that's... No, it's actually the smallest of the drummers, the snare. Okay. Yeah. So, maybe it might help just to see what the rhythms are. Yeah. What are they?

So, the fastest rhythm is breathing. Okay. And that's what is vagal tone. That's actually... And actually, that's even the wrong term. But we only breathe 13 times a minute. That's not the fastest. Well, that's a fast rhythm. Okay. From an HRV perspective. Okay. Okay. And that's measured in what's called typically the statistical... God, I can't talk today. The statistical measure is called RMSSD. And it's a complex statistical term that tries to find the changes in the beat-to-beat variability that are bigger than other ones. Okay. Because that's vagally mediated. So, you find the big changes, like the big positives. Yeah. The ones that are mediated by the fast fibers in the vagus. Now, that's the fastest rhythm. And that's what Aura ring and others measure as well, especially during sleep, because you can only measure it while you're at rest. And it's a good measure, but it's not the big game.

Okay, let me back up a little bit. So, if we look at heart rate to begin with, Dave, so, you know, we've got a daytime heart rate and a nighttime heart rate. Okay. Now, if you... we've done thousands of these recordings over the years. So, if you look at daytime heart rate, it's up here, and around the exercise arm up. And but when you go to sleep, if if you're doing like you do, heart rate should drop immediately down to your nighttime heart rate, right? And stay down, kind of wiggly, and then pop right up right before you wake up. Correct. Unless you have a big meal before bed, then it won't do that. Okay. So, that's as it turns out, you... Well, I'm going to get ahead of myself if I'm not careful here. One of the best indicators of expending too much energy that day or the day before that could be physical energy. You overexpended too much workout, or you had a lot of emotional crap going on. Yep. Frustration, anxiety, triggering over the little stuff. Yeah. The way that actually shows up actually isn't really in RMSSD as much as people think. Okay. What it actually, what you see when you look at the heart rate daytime, blah, blah, blah. Now, instead of dropping down, it goes, takes about four hours to get down to nighttime level. Okay. That's your best indicator. So, then you're overtrained. You're overtrained, or you expended too much emotional energy. Got it. So, too much choppy sea is energy. Got it. So, too much stress or too much exercise, which is a form of stress. And at least in my Aura ring and some similar other apps and things I have, they call that late heart rate drop. Okay. Right. That's kind of similar. Yeah. I call it the downward slope in heart rate. Yeah. Same thing. Yeah.

And what are the other two rhythms in the heart?

Okay. Well, okay. So, that's the breathing-related, your vagal activity rhythm, how it's measured. Then you've got a slower rhythm, which is where the coherence frequency shows up, which is our... We all have a literal resonant frequency. Is it the same for all of us, or is it different? No. But in fact, I just published a paper a couple of months ago. Hey, tell me. 1.8 million biofeedback sessions of people being coherent globally. Okay. That's a lot. It's a lot. It's the dominant, or the center of the bell curve, is 0.1 hertz. Okay. In frequency language, or a 10-second rhythm. And so, what's happening every 10 seconds of my heartbeat? Well, your heart rate's going up. Ah. And down. And this beautiful sine wave. Wow. Okay. That's... And that's going to be invisible on an Aura or something. Oh, yeah. Well, you don't see it. Yeah. Okay. Right. Now, that's what you pay attention to, though, in the HeartMath app. Yeah. Now, that is a rhythm that's actually generated between the heart and brain. Now, breathing, you can breathe at that pace and help coax the system into what we call a coherent state. So, now the conductor is getting everything working together harmoniously. And that's what maximizes our optimal function. Really, that is actually the clearest explanation I've ever heard on the difference between the sleep monitoring heart rate variability and what HeartMath does. And I'm... I'm going to skip a couple of steps here and describe what happens with heart rate variability training. Perfect. And I can do this because, well, I learned how to do it from you, but I'll translate it just because listeners know the way I communicate. So, when you're doing the latest HeartMath app with the coherence plus sensor, it's a little thing you clip on your ear. It's not like wearing an Aura ring. Your ring is tracking long things over time and during sleep mainly. Yeah, during sleep and a little bit during the day, but not heart rate variability. And you can think of it like this: At the end of the week, some AI system analyzes your calendar and says, "You know, every Friday you buy beer and diapers," and you're like, "Wow, I never knew that about myself. Maybe next Friday I won't do that." It's of some value because it lets you think about what you did and maybe change something. With real-time feedback, what's happening is every second you're saying, "Am I doing this, or am I not doing this?" So, you're looking at your phone and you're trying to make the light turn green. And you're breathing in and out according to rhythm. But what the heck do you do to make the light turn green? There really aren't words for it, which is why it's really hard to teach meditation. And you sit in a monastery somewhere in some odd pose with your hands here, and you're doing this and doing that, and you're just trying to learn how to reach these inner states. But when you sit there frustrated for a little while until you figure out what to do with your inner control system to make the light turn green, when you do that, you have created the coherence you're talking about. Right. Right. And that's the difference between real-time training. We're teaching you a new state, and we're teaching you what it feels like to be in the state and out of the state. And how to shift into that state at will. That changed my life. Yeah. When you need to. Cuz that's the problem. Mhm. It's when we get triggered. Yeah. Or we hit the stressors, the challenges that we don't have the experience maybe to meet, or we don't have the confidence. That's when we tend to... the conductor goes walky, and we get into discord, and then we do stupid things. Right. Wow. You follow what I'm saying? So, learn. And what you... with coherence training, Dave, it's what you... five minutes a day. It doesn't take much time. Doesn't take much time. But you do that over time, we are literally, and we can prove this scientifically, creating a new, what we call, baseline in our physiology, in our brain, in our nervous system. Yeah. So that that state is more our natural, our new natural state. So when we hit the bigger things, it's much easier to go there.

What I learned from you, you came and you spoke at the Longevity Nonprofit Group at the time, and now it's called Silicon Valley Health Institute. But you came and you spoke, and I was blown away. I'm like, "This guy's an engineer. He knows stuff." So, I went and I bought a HeartMath thing. It was much more expensive back then. And I started doing this training, and I learned within about a month that hundreds of times a day, my body, without any awareness from me, was going into fight or flight mode over and over. And once I got really good at HeartMath, I would notice it and then I would say, "Why?" And then I would kind of play whack-a-mole with my nervous system to put it back into shape. And that was foundational to a lot of the meditation training I've done and a lot of the other spiritual work is that I gained awareness of my inner state. And I look at heart rate variability as kind of the entry level to neurofeedback. They're both biofeedback. One is based on the heart, one is based on the brain, but the heart stuff is very accessible and it's easy to do. And you are the leading voice in that whole industry.

Yeah. You can focus on the brain and brain waves. Mhm. Been there, done that. Yeah. But in reality, the heart sends more information to the brain than the brain sends to the heart. Yeah. It's the master rhythm. It's the rhythm maker. And when you get the heart into the coherent rhythm, those neural signals go directly to the thalamus, right corner of our brain, which is responsible for globally synchronizing the electrical activity in the entire brain. You can definitely synchronize the brain with heart, with HeartMath, 100%. And that is the quickest, fastest way to, well, I can say it, get in sync, because that's really what it is. And that's what underlies all the different brain systems' ability to perform optimally.

How many hours have you had HeartMath tech connected to your brain?

I have no idea. Well, to your earlobe. To your earlobe. Yeah. Yeah. Or your chest. I have no idea. Just guess. Oh, probably thousands. Oh, more than thousands. I would imagine it's probably 10,000 at this point. I have no idea. You might be one of the more measured people out there.

What I found, though, is that if I did 20 minutes of training with HeartMath tech every day for six weeks to two months, that I felt like I had a pretty good sense of where I was and that I didn't have to use the tech in order to re-regulate myself. That's the whole point. You're retraining, you're training your system, training your nervous system into that new baseline state of coherence. Because this is really about navigating day-to-day life with more composure, right? Being able to flow through, not trigger over the small stuff, or even the big stuff eventually, with practice. Because that all that does is waste energy.

Man, we're so in alignment on that. And heavily meditated. Point is, if someone can trigger you, it means you're carrying a loaded gun and their finger is on your trigger, and nobody wants that. So, if you can go in and regulate your sympathetic fight-or-flight response by learning this technique, and it's not just "take a deep breath." In fact, I remember I gave my kids the sensor when they were little, and I called it the magic fairy breathing game, because they're pretty little. And it's just... it's HeartMath. And I watched my son go, he'd say, "Take a deep breath." To most little kids, and they go, they don't even know what a deep breath is. But because he had done the training, and of course, he made the light turn green, "Take a deep breath," he'd go, and impressed. But that's the power of this, because even for kids, they want to regulate. They just don't know how. And then we're adults. We think we know how. We just learned how to think about it and behave, but we never learned how to regulate. Yeah. And we forget to do it in the times that count the most. Yeah.

Why do we forget? Well, called cortical inhibition is the technical term for it. When we're in that choppy sea state, our inner systems are out of sync. The frontal cortex, which really begins the self-regulation process, is literally taken offline until we retrain to that new state.

All right. I want to get a little bit mystical with you. All right. And I would consider you to be one of the leaders in the science of consciousness at this point in your career. You've studied this for a very long time and done some cool stuff, some of which you probably talk about, some of which you don't. But I learned before I go on a big stage to go into a state of coherence. And I learned that state of coherence from using my HeartMath stuff years ago. So, before I went on to Tony Robbins' main stage one time, in fact, the first time. So, this was my biggest audience. It was like 15,000 people at the time. So, I'm backstage, and I... it just takes a couple seconds when you know how to do it, and you go in and you change your state. And I'm supposed to walk out after my sizzle reel plays, you know, introducing Dave Asprey. The team forgets to play my sizzle reel and go, "Okay, Dave, come on out." And so, I walked out. Zero change in my heart rate. I was already regulated. It didn't bother me in the slightest. And I got a standing ovation. You... it was a very popular talk. But I learned if I'm regulated when I go on stage, or even before I do an interview, it feels like the audience regulates better too. Absolutely.

Can you measure that? Yes, I think we can. Okay. Have you... Certain on certain ways we've... we're um that's actually an area of active research where we're measuring, really, it's heart-to-heart synchronization in groups. Oh, yeah. Yeah. In fact, we... that's this is getting real wide, probably not where I should be going in this podcast. But we just published this too. They... well, the first study I was talking about, the 1.8 million people, right? We also... they... we... those 1.8 million, we had emotion reports. Oh, wow. What a data set. Oh, it was awesome because what this study proved is that when we're feeling anxious, fearful, frustrated, impatient, that basically messes with the rhythms, right? So, smooth internal rhythms become choppy seas, and we don't feel good, and we don't think well, and we don't sleep well. And it's aging us faster, right? Whereas when people were feeling things like calm, patience, inner stillness, these type of feelings, Mhm. that created more stability in the inner rhythms, right? Okay. So, within a couple weeks, amazing. We had two publications in a Nature journal, Scientific Reports. Yeah. This one, we were looking at long-term HRV over 15 days continuous in five groups of people, 20 people in each group, 100 people around the world, five different countries. And what we found, I'm going to make a long story short, was in the two... two of the groups out of the five, their heart rhythms were synchronized across the 15 days. Wow. And they're going about their normal days. It's 20 people all in a group, and they're just doing their lives, but they're synchronized. Yeah. In the same areas. The two groups that were synchronized were the two groups that knew each other well and liked each other. Wow. They had created that social heart connection with each other. So, you want to be friends with well-regulated people, not with chaotic people. Yeah. But what this shows us is that when we really form relationships that mean... that are meaningful to us, that we are forming a group-level field. Wow.

Remember I was saying there's multiple rhythms in HRV because HRV is really the study of rhythm. Mhm. Multiple rhythms. So, we've got the fast stuff, breathing, and the heart-brain resonant frequency. Then we have another rhythm called the VLF rhythm. Now, that's the granddaddy, very low frequency. That is the most important one for predicting future health and resilience. Mhm. It's not the vagal stuff that actually has very little to do with predicting future health. The VLF is correlated... If that's low, all-cause mortality. So, if dying from any reason, right? So, 0.1 hertz, that's much faster. VLF is a five-minute rhythm. Got it. Just to differentiate between them. So, there's a 10-second rhythm, which is 0.1, which is a very fundamental rhythm for heart-brain synchrony. Okay. That's the synchrony connection between heart and brain. And the one you're talking about, the five-minute rhythm. What's the hertz in that? That's like 0.000 something, I forget. Yeah. Five-minute rhythm. Yeah. Five-minute rhythm. Okay. Then there's again, a lower rhythm that we would know, it's circadian rhythm. It's a 24-hour rhythm of your heart rate. Okay. That's also in HRV. Remember I said you can spend a lifetime. There's even a lower frequency rhythm. There's always going to be octaves, right? What's the lower frequency? Well, it can vary. One of our studies showed in one group, it was about two and a half days. Okay. Some studies show it can be even a weekly rhythm. And this is the rhythm where we tune in and synchronize to the activity going on in the earth's fields. Wow. Which... which... so we... two and a half to five days, and we're not sure yet, or maybe it varies by... depends on what's going on in the environment and us. Now, we're just completing analysis of almost 10 million sessions. Wow. Over seven years globally. We also have a system measuring the planetary frequencies. And what we're... this study is showing clear, so clear, Dave, is that when people practice coherence, they're not as affected by the external environment. You want to be in charge of yourself? Might want to learn how to be coherent. Whether it's... whether it's the solar flare stuff, solar, you know, whether it's just you're in a noisy city and it's driving you crazy, you can still go in and maintain that inner composure. You're following it?

I I think you just disregulated some skeptics when you talked about solar flares. So, I want to talk about that for a second. Uh oh. Um, that's all right. Disregulating skeptics is great fun. I mean, we can all do that. And by the way, if you're a skeptic and you're like, "Well, dude, we just told you that if we can trigger you, you're a loaded gun and we're in charge of you," and now you're even more triggered. And that's okay. But you should probably work on that. So, skeptic of what, though? Well, there's just people who are saying, "I have a model of reality that I believe, and I just heard something that is outside my model. Therefore, I don't feel safe." They don't. Yes. They don't know that. My version of that is, "Don't confuse me with the data. My mind is made up." Oo. Oh, that's the WHO. Why did I say that out loud? Um, so space weather. In Heavily Meditated, I wrote about space weather because it has a direct effect on human consciousness. And one of the pieces of tech that I shared is called the... the God Helmet. Which helmet? Person? God Helmet, right? Of course, you know about this. Yeah. And New Passinger. So, okay, cool. And I know Todd who took on Persinger's work, and Todd Murphy. So, I was talking with him on the phone, and he said, "Dave, if you really want to use the helmet that changes your brain state with subtle magnets at the right..." and get the best results, you have to check the space weather and do it when it's not too calm and not too stormy." And so, you go to spaceweather.com, and sure enough, it's a thing. And it's actual real data. And the fact that you may not know that it affects your consciousness has nothing to do with whether or not it changes your consciousness. It does, and it's provable, right? Yeah. Oh, 10 million sessions over seven years.

So, what did you find when you studied space weather?

Well, the... why we actually have a lot of publications in this field. There's... some people think of it as a paradox because the background geomagnetic fields we live in. So, let me make this as short as I can. So, you've got the geomagnetic field, right? The field, north-south pole. These field lines, magnetic field lines around the Earth. Well, here's the wild thing. Magnetic field lines act like guitar strings. You can pluck them. Yeah. They change. No. Well, you pluck them, and they vibrate. And yeah, the government plucks them with the HARP project up in Alaska. Yeah. That's nonsense. Uh, is it really? I mean, we'll talk about that later. Yeah. Uh, solar winds plucking the strings. Earth is turning. Solar winds rushing by at a million miles an hour, plucking the strings. The primary resonant frequency, called field line resonances. Guess what? 0.1 hertz. Oh, so we're attuned to 0.1 hertz, and then solar winds change that, and then we change, unless we're well-regulated. Okay. So, this is on normal quiet days, right? Normal days. Then you've got the Schumann resonances, which a lot of people get way wrong. Um, which overlap brain waves. They're very stable. They're the same frequency they were when they were first measured in 1950. So, when everyone says it's changing, they're lying. Not lying. Mistaken. Yeah, they're mis... They don't know the science. They... We... They have a global magnetometer, a super-sensitive system globally measuring these things for years. So, if you ever saw Lost, they have these, you know, weird monitoring stations buried. Roland, you actually built these. You have a network of monitoring stations buried in the Earth all over the planet that gets data you can't get from satellites. So, when you're saying this, people need to know that's the extent you went through to get this hard data.

There you go. Well, we have the only global, yeah, sync-time, synchronized, GPS-synchronized, calibrated global magnet-monitoring, magnetic-monitoring system in the world. I'm going to believe your data. Yeah. I mean, we share it with, you know, MIT, Glo groups, there a lot of people like our data. Um, the point I'm trying to make here is though that in the Earth's fields, the vibrations, we probably have the rhythms we do because we evolved in the frequency of the Earth. Of course, again, rhythms, right? So, those fields act as synchronizing signals. Wow. That we tune to, unless we get stressed. So, that five-day signal. Yeah. There's all these rhythms in HRV, and they're all planetary. Well, no. There's... you have the... the one, the planetary one is the lowest frequency. Then you've got the circadian, the daylight. Okay. That's a fundamental rhythm. Then you've got these faster rhythms. That's all reflected in HRV. Incredible. So, you really are kind of a picture of the environment you're in. Yeah. So, we actually... we did a study. This was published last year. The same five groups I was talking about, the primary study where we're continuously measuring HRV. In the middle of that 15-day period, we had all the... the hundred and some people do what we call a heart lock-in. It's a heart-focused meditation for 15 minutes, using the technology they've been practicing to get coherent. They did that for 15 minutes together. Guess what happened? Of course, their coherence went off the roof while they were doing that. The members within all the groups were significantly more in sync with each other during that exercise. The total shocker came, though, that every single group, all five, were significantly more in sync with the Earth's rhythms for the next 24 hours. So, just getting ourselves coherent for 15 minutes synchronizes our own system, right? We're doing a lot of benefits for us, right? Mentally, emotionally, physically. Do you want to be synchronized with Earth's rhythms? Earth seems like it's kind of screwed up right now. No, no. The magnetic rhythms. You do the synchronizing. That's what keeps us in sync, unless we're too stressed out.

What if there's something else messing with local magnetic stuff, like the power grid or 5G, or any of, like, I mean, there are focused magnetic interventions. I have some downstairs that will just completely different frequency than what we're talking about, life-protecting rhythms. Okay. You couldn't make a bad one of those and play it for people. Um, I suppose you could, but if you could, someone would. I'm a little worried about this is the point I'm trying to get to, the paradox, right? All right. Because this is... there's hundreds of papers on this in the scientific literature. We know that being in sync is a good thing. And like, like resting metabolic rate goes down when we're... when we have higher resonant frequencies. In other words, the body is literally measurably using less energy for life processes. Lovely. Okay. A couple studies on this now. My name's on too. But anyway, it's when we get stressed out, you know, we're the frustrations, the anxieties, you know, worrying over the small stuff, the looping thoughts that takes us out of sync, not only within our own body and system, but with the rhythms of the Earth and with other people. Wow. I disconnected from your community. So, just getting in sync for a few minutes synchronizes across all those scales. Wow. Follow what I'm going there, right? Yes. So, okay. So, it's now the paradox is there's a whole bunch of other studies that show that the magnetic field is like this harmful thing. But now, here's the... it's not a paradox when you understand it. Now, these are all studies that show that when there's this thing called KP index, which is a measure of field disturbance, right? So, the... every now and then, it's not... it's actually not that often. Earth gets hit with this big wave of plasma from the sun that's called a solar flare. Hits the field of the Earth, which protects us, and it goes all wobbly, right? And then we all act weird. And then we all act weird, and we have more hospital admissions, we have more mental health issues, more revolutions. Exactly. Yeah. People get pissed off, triggered faster, you know, uh, during those periods. So, in other words, we don't like being out of sync with our natural environment. Wow. So, some studies show that that being aligned or in resonance with the Earth is good for you, which is true. And when it's when it's not good for you, it's because the field itself is disturbed externally. And the study we're getting ready to publish right now with 10 million sessions shows that when we practice coherence, we don't get... not disregulated in disturbed times. So, you can literally be solar flare proof with HeartMath. Yeah. 10 million sessions. Over... superpower, if there ever was one. Yeah. I mean, this... everybody should be doing this. I actually agree with that. If they put this as a standard part of high school curriculum, it would completely change the world. Yeah, for sure. It's a... it's a big thing.

Um, what are the implications for friend groups? So, let's say that I want to be more in coherence with my core group of good people friends. Yeah. What would I do?

Well, one of the easiest things is practice being coherent together at the same time. So, we all get a HeartMath and we all sit down in a room and do that. Yeah. And just do that regularly until... you like the other study I was that I thought might have been too wide, really isn't now, because that's where you're building that group field that is non-locally energetically connecting those group members. Wow. So, we're literally sharing energy and information across the group.

Well, what if we all just did breathwork together? Because not everyone has a heart sensor.

Yeah, you can do breathwork. Um, probably not the same. Well, okay. We all have to breathe. Yeah. Right. So, I... I say this a lot. You have to breathe anyway, right? I mean, you really don't have to take time out of your day, but if you put more attention to the breath. So, if we... we call it heart-focused breathing. Yep. Because there is a big energetic component to this work. It's not just about the mechanics of breathing. So, heart-focused breathing. Pretend you're breathing right through the center of your chest. Mhm. Breathe slower and deeper. Breathe at your own natural resonant frequency, which for the majority is going to be a 10-second rhythm. Five in, five out. Yep. Now, we did find in that other big study I was talking about, that as people get better at this, they start breathing a little slower. Mhm. And coherence increases.

Do you want to pause at the top or bottom at all?

No. Yeah. Okay. So, I'm not a fan of box breathing. I know the source of that, but that's another story. Okay. Because that takes you out of coherence. Most people will take out of coherence. Interesting. Because the heart, the coherent heart rhythm is a sine wave. It's not a square wave. It's definitely not a square wave. I recommend box breathing because it does take people out of anxiety, but it doesn't take them into coherence. There might be.

So, will heart-focused breathing take you out of anxiety?

If they know it. Yeah. The problem is, if I have an audience who doesn't know heart-focused breathing and they're anxious, I can teach them box breathing in one. And also teach some heart-focused breathing, Dave. And not as quickly. Yes, sure you can. Really? So, people breathe five seconds in, breathe five seconds out. So, when I do that and I'm hooked up to my HeartMath sensor, the light does not turn green unless you do something else. It's the something else that's hard to teach.

Uh, well, actually, you... for most people, you can breathe yourself into co... into, I'll say, the lower levels of coherence when they're anxious. Yeah. Interesting. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I've done... I'm believing you. You're a very credible guy. We have 30,000 healthcare professionals that are certified teaching this to patients every day. You're very credible. Yeah. Okay.

Um, what about breathing out twice as long as the inhale breath?

Um, okay. So, that can be useful if you're trying to slow heart rate. If you've done a workout and heart rate's high, and you're... people are stressed. Yeah. Yeah. So, that, because you know the mechanism there for people that want to understand how breathing modulates heart rhythm. You don't have to measure breath, by the way, to know the... we can measure. We know exactly how someone's breathing, the frequency and depth, just from looking at their HRV. Correct. Yeah. So, there are neurons in the lungs, or mechano-receptive neurons, sorry, they're stretch-sensitive. We breathe in. So, when we breathe in, those neurons get stretched, they increase their firing rate. They go up certain vagus nerve fibers. Three thousand neural fibers in the vagus. Right. Two hundred thousand. Yeah. So, they connect in at the cardiovascular respiratory integration center, and they modulate. Think of like a rheostat. They turn down vagal flow going to the heart. Wow. So, heart rate goes up when you breathe in. Mhm. Breathe out, rheostat gets turned the other way. You restore that vagal outflow. Heart rate goes down. That's why breathing at 0.1 hertz helps coax our system into coherence. Wow. Now, so for new people, that can feel uncomfortable because it's not... they don't have an inner reference for it yet. Mhm. That's a whole other story, but, uh, stay with it, and it'll become comfortable. That's that new baseline. Now, you asked about, so if you're... if you understand that you're trying to slow heart rate because it's high, breathe in and breathe out slower, right? So, that can help you slow heart rate. You can do the opposite if you need to increase heart rate. You're getting ready to go on stage. You're getting ready to play a sport. You... you want a higher heart rate. So, then you would... longer inhale breath and shorter out breath. Exactly. So, it's just knowing it's knowing the mechanics. Maybe not quite that exaggerated, but yeah. That's going to raise your heart rate pretty fast. Yeah. But you get the drift. It's... But if we're really trying to get in sync, get coherent, get our inter... our hormonal system, right? Our immune system, our nervous system, emotional system working together in harmony. That's where we want to get the master conductor creating a stable synchronization signal for all those systems. That's what heart coherence is.

At this point in your life, are you always practicing heart breathing?

Um, no. Oh. What percentage of your breaths are? Well, I've... I've done this for long enough, it's a baseline. It's just... Just so you... you don't have to try. And that's the beautiful thing. That five minutes a day for just a few weeks, you've shown this. You've created... I mean, this is not metaphor, right? New baseline. In fact, I was just talking... Oh, God, I have to remember his name. A biohacker is doing a self-experiment now. Oh, God, there's so many of us. I know. I had a conversation with him and I explained that about the technology. It's not just about breathing. This is about self-regulation. And he goes, "Okay, I'm going to try it." I just had... last week, he called me, sent me an email, talked. And he was sharing with me how transformed his life is. Oh, good for you, Ron. That's why you were at the first biohacking conference. This foundational major... all this stuff that, you know, you know it. And it... so, let me... what I explained to him that I think got him motivated was the... when we think of emotions, and especially us men tend to not want to think about emotions a lot. And supposed to feel about it, not think about it. Yeah. Right. Um, well, it's the emotional system, and it is a system that runs the show. Absolutely. It is what controls our longevity, our healthy aging, your memories, everything. Everything. It's... and sorry, guys. It's what runs the show. And it's a really complex system. Yeah. So, yes, there's the biochemical level, and you can get lost in the... this hormone got that hormone. That one's easy, you know. I mean, you know, just being angry for five minutes, you set in motion thousands of biochemical changes. And take some heroin, and they'll take that right away, right? Well, you have my drift. The biochemical level. Yeah. But it's easy to hack. Yeah. But then you... So, if you talk like Candace Pert, was a friend of mine, you probably remember her. Oh, yeah. Emotions. Yeah. Great book. And yeah. It's all true. However, she's right. But then you talk to a neuroscientist. Mhm. No, it's all about the brain and nervous system. Yep. Which set in motion the biochemistry, unless you're, you know, taking a drug or a chemical. They're simultaneously, right? Depending on which lens you're using, right? But I'm going to add, there's another even more important system. Magnetic, energetic. Okay. Is that quantum? Or is that information? Yeah, it's... it's informational, ultimately, but it's... I mean, it would include the biofield and the magnetic. And that's what we're in harm teaching people to come more aware of, because it's... emotion happens first energetically. Yes. Then we can measure changes in brain waves and neural activity, and that's then reflected in HRV, which is your master sign, you know, outplay of that. And then you have all the biochemistry that follows suit. I love it. Right. Now, this is you talking about biohacking. This is what people need to understand is this is a complex system that runs the show. The... and coherence is the doorway in to bringing alignment across those systems. The picture that always comes to mind when I'm thinking about this, if you're getting on a really big airplane, and the cockpit's open, and you look in there, and you're like, "There are an enormous number of knobs and switches and dials and levers," and how would I ever figure out what each one of these things does? It's even more complex than that. And we don't have any instrumentation, and we don't know how to open the door to the cockpit. And when you look in there, you're like, "There's a lot to learn here." And you just put it so beautifully like, if you're in coherence, you have awareness of all those things. You can start looking at each dial and knob and figuring out how to control yourself. Yeah. And then you... but you know, this reminds me. I was at a conference, well, a couple years in a row, one of my favorite conferences ever, in Switzerland. This invitation-only. This is probably 30 years ago, at the very beginning of my career. I mean, the people I looked up to then, you know, I mean, very famous people, you know, in the psychophysiology world. And a lot of them became mentors. I've had a lot of, like, Timothy Leary types, or more like hardcore neuro... like, um, Paul Rosch, the founder of the American Institute of Stress. And okay. And just luminaries in the field. Luminaries in the field. And these guys were getting up, and they were saying back then, 30-some years ago, you know, "Yeah, we're starting to know more about the biochemistry and the hormones and the this and the that." Said, and this was the warning even back then, "Says, don't get lost in the militia of all of what begat what. We're forgetting what drives all of it to begin with, which is consciousness and our emotions." 100%. Right. So, I find myself now, as an older guy, right, saying the same thing. Mhm. It's so easy to get lost in reading labels. Not that that's not important. Yeah. I mean, cyanide will tell you what's important. Yeah. Well, you know what I'm trying to say. I mean, yes, of course, nutrition is important. Good sleep is important, right? Having clean water, all that's important. But maintaining our emotional system into coherence, I'm going to say, is even more important.

I would agree it's more important. And the reason that I rolled biohacking out to society this way is because I found that when people have enough mitochondrial energy, their ability to self-regulate and learn these techniques goes up so much.

Of course, it does. Like, it's hard for me to be regulated, or I don't think I could have been regulated when I was 25 if I didn't have a meal every five hours, or sorry, every five minutes. They're all interacting systems. So, of course, we have to have the physical regulation matters most to your point. Yeah. But we a lot of times don't have the energy to self-regulate because we haven't managed our energy systems very well. And we get depleted. And this is... this is everybody feels that or knows that feeling. This is... I had a great example of this when we developed the resilience training for the US Navy. Um, you know, I personally trained about 5,000 men and women on... Wow. On the highest-risk mission at that time of anything in the military. And what they, you know, I know you talk a lot about sleep. They had found that the most correlated thing to stress injury, as they called it. Mhm. Right. I mean, trauma, PTSD, anxiety disorders, was sleep disruption. Yeah. And then I gave them the missing answer to why that's true. Because if we don't get enough sleep, that's our main way of recharging our inner battery. Think of it. Mhm. When we get depleted, our energy systems get depleted, right? Down to the mitochondria, as you would say. We don't have the energy to self-regulate. Correct. So, we go in a downward spiral. But in their case, what was depleting the battery to begin with was the lack of self-regulation. Follow where I'm going. So, it's... Yeah. So, you have lack of self-regulation, and maybe some PTSD in there. You're not going to be able to sleep, which makes you get worse, which makes you less regulated. So, it's a downward spiral. Mhm. Yeah.

So, do you fix the sleep, or do you fix the heart coherence?

Well, we... we fix the heart coherence. They all... they all got a device. Well, this is... I probably say this because it was presented at a conference publicly at a... one of the Navy conferences. The... I won't go into detail here, but the group we were working with on the mission that they had, they had the historical data that it was a year-long deployment. Three months into the deployment, 80% of these men and women were on a prescription sleep medication. Dang. 80% three months.

Now, we this was over a 5-year period, we were working with them, and it we worked a lot on sustainability, how you I mean, you can teach this stuff, but you got to stay with it long enough, right?

So, they were in a very high stress environment. Bottom line, the last two deployment cycles that we were tracking, I had to access this viewmed, less than 5% were on a sleep prescription sleep med for the entire year.

Wow. So you completely destroyed the sleep med industry in the rough. They all had the train HRV coherence training devices. They all got one issue. They And how much training did they have to to do to make it happen?

Well, it wasn't a lot. We we had a half day training with them before they deployed. But the key that turned everything around was when we developed a secondary training that was taught down range when they got deployed. And we called them resilience mentors in that case. But these were your basically coaches that were reminding you to get coherent before you go on shift. Get now shift and reset. Get back to coherent when an incident happened that major triggers.

Wow. Get you reset quick. Th that was the simple stuff cuz you're not going to really remember if you're that triggered. But if someone sits down and says, "All right, do the thing." And then you do the thing and then it doesn't stick, right?

Wow. Imagine how important that is. Yeah. So basically, it was really simple how we sustained it. Every day before they would go on shift, we're okay as a, you know, these were like squad leader level mentors, right? We're going to take two minutes and get coherent together before we wow go into the stressful situation.

That is remarkable. Yeah. Um you're reminding me, um back when I started my old company, Bulletproof, I got nothing to do with bulletproof anymore. I'm all about danger these days, but um I used to have uh I bought a heart math for all my execs and uh I had them all all do it and then I would work to start the meetings and some some were more resistant than others, but uh the die hard people are most successful would do it.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You should do that again. You should. You know, there's um some awesome new research on coherence training and and coherence training, remember, it's HRV, but it's looking at the not just the amplitude, but the stability of the rhythm. It's really this is really important.

So, when we say amplitude, non-engineers, it's the volume. It's the Yeah. It's the height of the wave. Exactly. And but the wave can be totally choppy and have high amplitude. You can have big crappy waves that are unsurfable or regular beautiful waves when you're triggered.

Yeah. Right. So this is these are studies done at USC really well funded mostly uh fMRI studies okay and what they've shown that the least the recent study the most recent one I'm just almost finished reading the paper showed that the vascular system to the brain after coherence training that brains were becoming younger that would make so much sense yeah so prior to that they the same group and this was four weeks of regular practice with the the HRV coherence technology at heart math technology significantly reduced levels of amaloid beta and ta primary biomarkers for Alzheimer's and cognitive decline.

Two of their other studies showed significantly greater white matter in the frontal cortex. Wow. Increased functional connectivity between the frontal cortex and the amydala. The very circuit we need for self-regulation, for stain and composure. Wow. Right. Increased HR, increased resting state HRV. So everything out that area, everything. It's the tide that lifts all boats. Wow.

Does that make Yeah. I mean, these are hardcore well published controlled studies. The the total investment of time to get to this state. You're saying five minutes a day. It's a little bit more than that. Like 10 minutes. Well, the 10 minutes is better. Got it. I I always coach people to do 20 minutes. But let's say that we have a listener who says I I'll pick up my heart math. Well, okay. I always start with 5 minutes a day for the first week in the morning or at night. Uh, ideally both. Well, that two and a half minutes each. Well, I mean I mean if I gave an ideal what I do Yeah. is I start my morning first thing I get out and go go for a walk. Get the system because just getting your system warmed up actually increases your HRV a little bit. So you go for a walk then I'll get some coherence time in five minutes. I'll do a morning I call it heart lock in just to set the tone for the day. So I'm starting out in that more coherent, balanced, aligned.

So someone who's completely new to Harmath, they're going to get their device. The next morning, they're going to get up, go for a short walk, come back. That's what I do. I mean, whatever. Okay. But so let's tell them what to do. So and then before bed, get coherent again for say 5 minutes. Okay. So it's really 10 minutes a day. I'm saying that that's me. Okay. Well, I'm not worried about you right now. I'm worried about Okay, I'm 20 years old. I'm totally freaking out. that five minutes before when you first get up, five minutes before you go to bed. Then second week, take it to 10 minutes. There you go. Okay. And we get to our 20 minutes a day. And third week, 15. Okay. And you also make it harder each week because you can change the settings from one to four. You can, but but it's um more important rather than trying just to keep going for a higher coherence score, okay, is to really be able to sustain it.

Now, okay. So, what I I really recommend to people once you get to where you can get in the green, right? or have a high coherent score number, you know, five, whatever it might be for you at the individual level. Great. Now, here's the bigger game. Can you maintain that coherence when you're having a phone call? That's amazing. Can you maintain that coherence when you're in a traffic jam? Literally, because this is what this is about. It's how do we navigate more coherently day-to-day life without the triggers, without the stressors. And this is what slows the aging process. This is what our studies show changes the biochemistry where we have higher DHA, lower cortisol, better immunity. Um, I mean these are the as you know you're better than anybody the biomarkers of aging. Wow. Right.

Um, what one of my favorite heart rate variability stories as a as a coach and a biohacker was a hedge fund manager and I mentioned the tact to him and said, "You ought to do this." And he's one of these guys, you know, works out all the time in great shape and runs billions of dollars is buying an island sort of thing. And he buys a machine and throws in a desk drawer and finally says, "I got bored." So, I was on a long flight and I said, "Fine, I'm finally going to do this." And I did it and I felt the difference. So I made a commitment to do it every day. So after 6 weeks I could max out a level four and I just felt so good. So I went into the office and I put it on, put the little heart mouth sensor on and then he said the market bell rang. He said and it turned red and it stayed red all day no matter what I did. And it took him another 6 weeks of intentionally training his self-regulation while he was trading billions of dollars.

Exactly. Perfect. And he said, "Dave, after that period of time," he said, "I would my trades improved because I wasn't trading in fear." He said, "For 20 years, I've been trading in fear all day and I didn't know. And when I go home at the end of the day now, I'm full of energy and I can play with my kids." Yeah. Right. And that's what self-regulation. That's what this is about. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I I just heard about your story reminds me, I think, of four in just in the last two weeks um either world records or major turnarounds because of coherence training. Wow. Um, and I'm horrible with names. Um, IGA, famous World Cup, I mean, won the Glam Stram tennis player trainers. Um, um, I'll flick her name up. Um, a player or a trainer. Player player. Bianca. No, I think is her name. You guys know that. Anyway, she's like the top top woman tennis player in the world right now. So, I I just blow blown away. I just saw this last week. There's a Rolex commercial featuring her. Wow. And it tells her story that she, you know, she I think she's 19, 20 now probably. And she won this grand slam and was all, you know, out of kind of the underdog and then lost the mental game and totally crashed. Oh no, that happens. And but then and so her coach, it actually shows her in this Rolex produced film using the coherence strainer. There you go. it. She She turned it around, won the the next one and has now become and she actually credits it. Okay, so it just goes on and on like this. Just two weeks ago heard about these two three guys who set a new world record from rowing a boat from Monterey, California to Hawaii, unassisted 4,500 miles. Wow. Right. And there's a picture of him with the inner balance coherent sensor on. You have so much more self-control. Yeah. Well, and longevity. I mean, endurance in this case. Mhm.

I mean, in a way, I don't it's there's something I don't think we've ever talked about this part of it, but for dating, if you're a man especially, and you learn how to do this and you're going on a first date or a 10th date, it doesn't really matter, go into coherence and watch how your date changes because people will feel safer around you when you're well regulated. They can feel it. And if you take the date home to the bedroom and you practice self-regulation, you will be able to connect at a heart level that is completely different. Yeah. And you know, the these are things that are difficult to talk about in research studies, but I I know that when I learned how to do this, uh that it did change my dating life and my romantic life. And it's it's some powerful powerful technology. And it's not expensive. Yeah, it's uh what is the current I think it's $2.49 $49. And I'm supposed to mention Y I was told by our folks that they there's a special that they can get a 15 I think 15% discount/Dave after the heartmath.com/dave and it'll give you 15% off and you can say Dave's just selling. Guys, I I paid to become a certified trainer in this and I just told you how it changed my life and how it changed my clients lives. And it's one of the cheapest feedback devices you can get. It's cheaper than an aura ring and it'll do more for you than that. That's why I'm talking about it and I got you 15% off. So there. Yeah. Well, can you really afford not to be that? That's a fair point.

You know, I have some more questions about HRV. What does food do to heart rate variability? Not a lot. I Well, and there's not I shouldn't say that. There's not a lot of research. There's some studies I mean, there's so many studies on HIV now. It's it's I mean, in the probably hundreds of thousands. Are they good though or is that all RSSD which isn't very No, I mean most of the I mean the real research on uh HRV goes much deeper than just looking at the vaguely mediated RMSSD and which is just a measure of the doesn't tell you anything about the rhythm of the pattern. There are actually we we've stayed pretty surfacy so far because there's another approach that we actually use in our apps. It's called frequency domain where we don't look at statistical averages. We actually look at the spectrum analysis that look at what are the rhythms, right? Because you've got the breathing rhythm, you've got the heart brain rhythm, you've got the VLF rhythm which is generated by the heart, all these other rhythms that you separate out so you can tell what's really going on and what's the coordinated behavior amongst these different internal body systems. That's what coherence is really getting at. So I hope I because coherence isn't just breathing. It it's not just breathing. And and that's what I I work to explain to people. I can tell you to breathe in and out like every five seconds like you're talking about and they won't fast. It's boring and you won't go into coherence. Yeah. Hard focus breathing and then you start breathing [Music] the appropriate attitude for the current times. Breathe a feeling. if you're trying to I mean, you know, I mean, I was a meditator for years before I met the founder of HeartMath and got involved, you know, and I could have great meditations and fly around the universe and be disassociated, get in my car and be pissed off and frustrated before I even got to my office. Mhm. Um, so it didn't really I mean, I got benefit out of it. I don't want to make it, but it doesn't stick always. Yeah. It didn't transfer into day-to-day. Yeah. Right. I mean, I once I learned coherent heart coherence I I can honestly say Dave I made more personal gain and progress in 3 to four months than I did in years of meditation. Now I still meditate. I just do heart focused meditation. I think you're on to something there in in terms of changes in your life per minute of work. Heart math training is far superior to any meditation practice that I know of and I know a lot of them and I'm a fan of them just like you. Yeah, they're for different purposes. And a lot of self-meditation, especially for the first decade or so, is not about self-regulation. It can get there, but it doesn't. That's why I do the neuro feedback side on the meditation front versus the hurry variability front. Yeah. And you know, I I think that I know I learned many years ago now. And then a lot of I've had a lot of people tell me this uh in recent weeks, months that what they've discovered is that what meditation really has been about for them, but they didn't know until recently, but it's really about stilling the mind enough that they could finally hear the voice of the heart. Well said. Yeah. When your mind shuts the hell up and the voice in your head goes away from whatever practice, you might be able to pay attention to that signal a little bit better. Yeah. So when you're doing the heart focus breathing, breathe the feeling. This is I've I've turned a few friends on to this and they come back and said, "God, I wish I'd known this years ago." Do hard f while you're doing the heart focus breathing on the inb breath bring breathe in a feeling of inner stillness. Consciously breathe inner stillness into your that complex emotional system, right? Because that emotional system is running the show. And for most of us, it's the mind that's running that's activating that system and causing the choppy waves in the the system. So doing that breathing, breathe in a feeling of inner peace or stillness, right? And then just be quiet and listen for the inner voice, the inner rhythms. And that's how we start to become more aware. Remember I was talking about the energetic level which is where emotions or triggers really start at cuz once we get on to them there Dave we start feeling them. We can kind of turn them around at that energetic level. Once they get into the physiology it's a lot harder cuz there go the hormones. They've already been released and there's the knot in the stomach and the tension in the shoulders. And I'm trying to find words for this and I want to ask you about this. I found that after I got used to having this state, if I am disregulated, now I'm aware that I'm disregulated, which is cool. Um, but all I have to do is remember that I have that state. I just, oh, let me just look for it and then it's there again. It it's it it doesn't require nearly as much effort as it used to. You have a new baseline. Yeah, that's that new baseline I've been talking about. It works. It's powerful. And in terms of getting the cost down, I think it was four or 500 bucks back when I started working with this. and money was worth a lot more back then than it is now. So you've you've taken the cost down. You have well that was the first ever system that we actually invented the HRV first app ever HRV was was done and you you've you have impeccable data. I mean the lengths you've gone through 10 million sessions and global field measurements. It it's very hard to argue with the body of research that you've accumulated over the last couple decades. So there may be further improvements to be made, but I I don't think any rational actor could take a look at at this and go there's nothing there. And all I really care about for any consciousness improvement is what's the return on investment of time and effort. And this is five or 10 minutes a day, maybe 20 when you get up there for a few weeks. And then you're less of a dick for the rest of your life. Just that happened to me. Yeah. It's not like it after 4 weeks you stop. No, I mean you still want to I still start the day 30 years later. Yeah. I still start the day making sure I get coherent. But do you use the sensor every day to do that? Um not I use it most nights when I do it. I don't necessarily do it in the mornings just but uh I gave my it keeps me honest because you know because I know in the like aura ring and whoops on your tracking basically RMSSD across the gate and it tells you you know um what the waves were. Uh I mean how choppy or not they tell you how choppy or not the waves were how the amplitude and that that can be that and that can modulate but people need to cut themselves a break a little bit there too because a lot can affect that that isn't what you necessarily think. So it's a difference between measuring and training. It measuring is a far lower value than training and actively changing and becoming aware. Yeah. But but you can still get benefit. I'm not down on measuring. Oh yeah. They're both They're both I know I know you're right cuz you know like if you get you know flu or something your numbers will drop you know if they you know 10% up and down that's pretty normal. Yeah. I had my sensor I've had multiple sensors over there. So I I gave two sensors ago. Um my daughter was here and I talked to her about this. Oh yeah I used to do that. I said well you know you turn 18 so you might want to do that again. She okay like can I have All right. So I gave it to her order another one. And then uh my girlfriend at the time was uh was saying, "All right, all right." So I gave her that sensor. So I don't have a sensor right now, but I know how to do it. So I'll probably get another one because it's a good practice to do. I want to find now. Well, I just one a couple months ago. Yeah, exactly. That was the one that went to my girlfriend. Uh so what you can what you can do is you can pick them up on the HeartMath website and save money on it. They're just they're not expensive. Like it's just easy for you to bring one to buy it. The awesome thing is that when you get I mean these are the best. In fact, there was a study published a few months ago that compared our sensor to a bunch of other ones including medical grade ones. Blew them all away in terms of accuracy. I mean it's you had some time to do this right. It's it's really done right and it's a high resolution sensor. I mean it's made for for training, not just you know continuous measuring, but it and it does that really well. And guys, it's heartmath.com/dave and you don't have to do this. It's not going to change my life if you do or don't. It will probably change yours though. Yeah, exactly.

This is just incredible wisdom. And of all the things you've learned, you you've done a lot that's outside of just this. I I would say you're a spiritual and consciousness pioneer here. What is the one piece of advice that you'd offer for listeners? Like sum it all up. Couple ways I can answer that actually. what I've uh finally gotten to in my own life that the straightest line path to rapidly increasing my level of awareness and consciousness, that's what I think you're asking about. Mhm. Is to radiate love. Oh man. And you know, I've been talking openly and more about this and even in scientific circles recently because a lot of people I think are confused about love in a certain way. Yeah. So I've been talking about the frequency spectrum of love. What is it? Okay. So, before I answer that, okay, when I say frequency spectrum, well, that sounds like I'm going woowoo or something. You're pretty engineering focus. I'm pretty engineering focused. You know, you were getting at this a little while ago in the in the discussion when we were talking about the fields, right? Yeah. So, when we put electrodes on the body, measure the electro cardiogram, let's say, or the head measure the electro and seephlogram. What's being measured is current flow. Yes. That's all that's being measured by electrodes. Okay, current flow. Now, of course, the heart is measured in millolts. Brain is measured in microvolts, 100 times greater. Right? Whenever there's a flow of current, you create a magnetic field. Correct? Magnetic fields go through things. They do indeed. This is why cell phones work indoors. Okay. Mhm. So, we we showed back in the '90s that the magnetic field of the heart is carrying information about our emotional states. Yes. Those patterns of information, this is measurable spectrum analysis. You can watch them change as you change emotional states. It's real science. It's real science. They trace back to your heart rate variability pattern, the rhythm, the song playing with your heart. There is exactly there's a mathematical relationship. So now that I we know that knowing what your HRV pattern is, remember I said it's a can be spent a lifetime trying to understand this stuff is exactly what we're feeding the field the energetic field that your nervous system my nervous system is picking up on each others right now. Do you know the pattern of love? Is there a specific song? Well, that's where I'm why I'm I wanted to before I answered that question say that when I say the frequencies of love, I mean it literally. These are frequencies that we can measure in the fields we're radiating. Wow. And we're measuring them with magnetic sensors. Yeah. Yeah. Magnetometers. Wow. So when you look at a coherent when we're in a heart rhythm coherent, that frequency spectrum is radically different than when somebody's feeling anxiety or frustration or irritation or getting triggered and so on, right? We're broadcasting that. So what we what we feel inside doesn't stop at the skin, Dave. Yep. This is literal. This is science. It's very literal. And it's affecting others in a measurable way. Mhm. That's why you don't want to hate on other people. It's not good for you or them. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So it's a long answer to your question, but one of the things I one of my calls to action is to pause as often as you can remember to do it throughout the day. Did you coherent breathing? Yeah. Well, to first ask yourself, what am I feeding the field? What's the vibration I'm feeding the field? Yeah. And if it is maybe under the radar levels of anxiety or maybe some fears or envy or jealousy, any of the seven, any of that lower frequency stuff, do some hard focus breathing. Breathe that feeling right now. The spectrum of love, it's an octave, compassion. Mhm. Am I extending compassionate latitude to someone cuz they cut me off in traffic cuz I really don't know what their day is like. Correct. Or that person who said the thing sideways in a meeting cuz I probably did it last week. Yep. Or will we'll do it next. Forgiveness mixed in. Yeah. Forgiveness. Yeah. You're starting to sound like you've been to 40 years of Zen even though you haven't. That's another one of those frequencies of love. Appreciation. Gratitude. Patience is a super big one. Yeah. That just eats our energy and takes us in the choppy seas and the internal systems. Breathe. Breathe a feeling of p hard focused breathing but then breathe patience. So can you measure love versus compassion versus patience in the field? You can see subtle differences in the field. Yeah. That's why I can say the frequencies the the love spectrum. I've got some of that mapped out with brain waves, but I haven't mapped those out with with heart stuff the way you have. But those are real real signals. Yeah. And they're trainable both in the heart and the brain. And when you learn how to do it, you can hug someone and it'll change them. Yeah. Right. Well, you're talking about dating. Imagine if you're with someone, if we once you understand that we have an energetic, this energetic magnetic field is a very real Oh, yeah. I mean, how do I know this? I can measure it, right? I can put this probe out here and every time measure this field. It's not, you know, not talking about auras and things. I'm talking about magnetics. So if if you are around somebody that that's radiating a coherent signal Mhm. When you do even unconsciously and most is is unconscious for most people until we do some self-awareness training, right? You you naturally feel whether it's attracted if it's a date maybe or safer or more trusting, right? If it's you can't fake it. Exactly. It's congruence and heavily meditated. I wrote about congruence. It's that inner state matches your outer state. Yeah. And and if your feelings aren't matching what you're saying Oh, people know. Oh boy. that creates a a mixed signal that we quickly unconsciously pick up on and let me get the heck out of here. You know, I remember the the first party I went to when I moved to Austin a few years ago. Um I hugged someone I just met a woman at a party. Um she was maybe 28, 29, just you know, hi, nice to meet you. And she stops. She goes, "What did you just do?" And I'm like, "My hands are up. Like I have no idea what's going on here." And and she says, "No, that that hug was different. I felt something." M I'm like, "Well, you you really want to know what I did?" And she said, "Yeah." I said, "All right." I said, "I'm not being creepy at all here, but you need to sit so your heart's right against mine where the fields strength the strongest and I'm going to do hard coherent breathing. I'm going to show it to you, right?" And I taught it to her and she just I like something shifted. And I'm not saying this to say I'm powerful. I'm saying this to say this technique is real and it works. And magnetic fields are stronger. They drop off at a cube of distance. So you put someone's heart right up against yours and you do this, they're going to feel it. And I had done that when I hugged. I always do that when I hug someone. Yeah. You don't even have to hug to feel it. No, it's just stronger when you're closer. I mean, yeah, exactly. When we've done experiments in the lab though, people five, six feet apart. You do it across the world if you're not But I mean, even within the field mediated and interestingly, you know, I was uh we did this back in the ' 90s experiments where we're measuring brain waves and heartbeats on mult, you know, different people in a room together interacting. Mhm. So I had this hypothesis that um I was totally wrong by the way that I I am coherent. I am radiating coherent fields. I am all powerful. People will synchronize to me. Right. Yeah. Doesn't work like that. No. It was completely wrong. Yeah. So you're you're so being coherent is a stable system. What it actually did out of that stability came another level of sensitivity. So my if you're in a coherent state, your brain waves are actually synchronizing to the other person's heart. Wow. So now you've got access to the energetic information can read their field, but yet you're stable because you're in that stable state. So you're not knocked out of the you don't pick up their incoherent heart rate. So wow, this this is a lot of that intuitive sensing of other people. You're explaining it with real hard science. Yeah, this is incredible work. And in the last couple decades since I first was blown away in our first conversation, God, you've taken this field so far. It's it is truly impressive and it's this is the actual state that we live in, the the environment we live in. And it isn't obvious from our human senses, but it is detectable with science and with our senses if they're trained. And you make a $250 device without the discount. That doesn't have lifetime access to the app. Oh, it comes really. You get lifetime access. you get the center. I mean, it's it's you've made it a lot a lot more affordable. Yeah, we we've got to wind up. So, guys, heartartmath.com/dave. And uh this is worth it. I would encourage you to do it. And if you do it, do it with someone else. Like, give one to your boyfriend or girlfriend. Uh or just do it for yourself, then have them do it while you sit with them. You will change your self and you'll change the stuff around you when you do it. It's it's important. So, thank you, Rowan. I'm I'm really always blown away by our conversations whether they're on the air or not. You too. Thanks, Dave. See you next time on the Human Upgrade podcast.