Transcription
I'm MPs, you know, brothers. Oftentimes, you can tell a lot about an era based off of who the most popular athlete in that era was. At the turn of the 20th century, in the 19-teens, arguably the most popular athlete in all of America, and not the world, was Jack Johnson, the so-called black heavyweight champion. And I say he was the most popular because he was the most loved and the most hated at the same time.
And during that era, what was it known for? It was known for the reinvigoration of the Ku Klux Klan. You had a president during that time, that being Mr. Woodrow Wilson, who invited the Ku Klux Klan down to the White House and was an unofficial member of the Klan. He also was heavily involved in a lot of the modifications made around the banking system in America, but that's another topic for another day.
The most, the most popular athlete in the 1930s and 1940s was Joe Lewis. Joe Lewis, by the way, was a Luciferian. He was a high-degree Mason, and he pretty much encapsulated what they wanted from so-called black men during that time, which was to entertain, but to always make sure that they stepped on the line and never over the line. Joe Lewis was given very detailed instructions by his manager, Mr. Jim Jacobs, to make sure that when he knocks someone down, to never stand over them, never celebrate. And he was informed of what to say in all the post-fight press conferences to the media because they did not want to be reminded about Jack Johnson, a person who did not give a [ __ ] about what anyone thought about him. And oftentimes, Jack Johnson would infuriate the mass media and the American public at large, the white majority, quote-unquote, by flagrantly parading his Caucasian women around with him to the point where they even passed antitrust laws in America to stop him from transporting Caucasian women across state lines. And by the way, Sylvester Stallone has recently sought out a pardon for Jack Johnson. He made a request to Donald Trump a couple of days ago. On that's gonna be put through or not, but just moving forward.
In the 1950s, the most popular athletes were Rocky Marciano and Mickey Mantle. And they were associated with the boom of America. The 1950s was the Golden Age of America. So that's why you very rarely ever heard anything controversial about Rocky Marciano or Mickey Mantle. We didn't find out that Mickey Mantle was a sex addict and an alcoholic until he was damn near dead because that was the era.
In the 1960s, of course, you had the great Muhammad Ali, you had Jim Brown, you had Bill Russell. And what was that era known for? That was the start of the counterculture movement where the masses of people, oftentimes led by so-called black athletes, started to push back.
We can jump over into the 1980s where you had the emergence of the corporate athlete, that being Magic Johnson and Michael Jordan. They were gonna make sure that they made their money. They were great pitchmen. That was an era in which a lot of the rabble-rousing, quote-unquote, that became associated with so-called blacks in the 1960s started to become dormant.
The 1990s was the, the "me" era. Of course, that also was consistent with Barry Bonds. The image that has been portrayed of Michael Jordan, Jerry Rice, Barry Sanders, all they were about, at least how they were depicted, was their numbers, making sure that they won championships. They were totally devoted to their sport. They wanted nothing to do with anything racial, at least that is the image that has been portrayed about them because they were products of their era. And that's something that brothers should always consider. Before you castigate someone, always focus on the era that they came up in, because the era that you come up in, the time period that you're raised in, it's always going to determine how you think, how you react, how you respond.
Now, Allen Iverson, Randy Moss, Michael Vick, they were part of the quote-unquote thug era of the late '90s into the early 2000s, in which they decided they were going to wear cornrows, baggy jeans, diamond-studded bracelets and chains, platinum watches, so on and so forth. That was the Jay-Z, DMX hip-hop era. And in sports, those athletes truly typified that era. And I think that Allen Iverson has been able to last so long in the subconscious of many so-called black men who grew up in that era because he was rebellious for rebelliousness' sake. He was, as I call him, an agent of chaos. There's no doubt about that.
And many people may disagree with me, but I think that one of the most important hallmarks of the Iverson era is when the NBA pushed back against him. Because that era in the early 2000s threatened [ __ ] everything that the NBA had done to grow their league from the '80s into the '90s, from the Magic and Bird era into the Jordan era, where Jordan initiated the hero ball era from wing players, but he did it with such flair and charisma that people almost forgot that he was a me-first ballplayer, but he made it look so good because he was so proficient at it. You had a slew of players who came into the league in the late '90s, led by Allen Iverson, Kobe Bryant, Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady, but were trying to play that style, and it was hurting the league. And then on top of that, they had embraced the so-called thug style of hip-hop. Please understand that hip-hop had been one of the mainstream forms of music in the black community, so-called black community, since the mid-'80s, but it had not embraced the so-called thug element until N.W.A. in the late '80s. And then in the mid-'90s, you had Tupac Shakur, who came and took it to another level.
The first hip-hop basketball team, in my view, was the UNLV Runnin' Rebels, led by Larry Johnson and Greg Anthony, Anderson Hunt, Charles Shackleford, so on and so forth. Then, of course, you had the Fab Five. And from there, those players left college and came into the NBA. And to me, that crescendoed on Allen Iverson. And they realized what Allen Iverson, that they had to do something very quickly, or they were going to hurt their league, because the image that he was conveying to the viewing audience was not something that was palatable if you wanted to maintain a nationwide market. Very similar to the issues that the NFL had the last two seasons with Colin Kaepernick.
So, Iverson is always going to be a divisive figure. There are a lot of brothers who grew up during that time period who hold him near and dear to their hearts. To me, and I'm on record as saying this, he was what Russell Westbrook is today, except he was far more left than Russell Westbrook is today. Russell is wild on the court, but not off the court. Iverson was trying to carry that energy off the court, and he was an agent of chaos.
Well, anyway, he sat down with Stephen A. and Max Kellerman to discuss a myriad of topics, starting with himself, as well as his view of the NBA. So they're gonna talk about it, and I'm gonna chime in.
[Music]
Ivarsson with the first team in the 1996 NBA Draft. The Philadelphia 76ers select Allen Iverson.
[Laughter]
Allen Iverson's one of the greatest natural athletes in the last 30 years. He was a blue-chip prospect in both basketball and football in high school. He was a number-one recruit in both basketball and football. That's why I liken him so much to Russell Westbrook in regards to that archetype that they both filled. And anybody who watched Allen Iverson play, even though he gets overly glorified now because, as usual, after players are gone, that reputation tends to become inflated, but during his time period, he was what he was. He was a guy who was going to come out in the game. If he shot 15 for 35, he had a good game. If he shot 50%, he had a great game. More often than not, Allen was going to shoot somewhere around 14 for 35. And people want to say, "Wow, did you see that crossover?" That's what he was.
Now, he played in a much more physical era, so we have to give him that. I have to give him that much credit, that much understanding in regards to the difference in style of the NBA today as opposed to back then, when it was much more physical. And that era, that era was the most physical era in NBA history, not the '80s. The late, late '90s going into the early 2000s was the most physical era in NBA history. And then you compound that with the fact that there was so little ball movement, that's what was hurting the league. There was just a big cornucopia of issues that the NBA had at that time that they had to resolve. And it did a good job of resolving it because that's why they are where they are today, because they got rid of a lot of that, that quote-unquote thug culture that was destroying the so-called black community. So if it was destroying the so-called black community, how could it help the NBA? That's just bad business.
[Music]
[Applause]
City, they love it, they passionate about it. I just want them to be happy. These fans here. That was the greatest moment of his career when he made that shot and I stepped over Tyronn Lue. Everything was pretty much downhill after that. And let me also say this, Allen Iverson probably did the most with what he was given of any player or any athlete in the last 25 years. No one will ever forget the one and only Allen Iverson changed the game. 11-time All-Star, former MVP, Hall-of-Famer, and the man who carried the Sixers on his back for years is now with us. A.I., so appreciate you hanging out there in Philly with Stephen A. I will send it out to you guys.
Well, one of the reasons why A.I. carried the 76ers for those years was because he would not allow anyone else to shed a spotlight. And of course, the cult of personality that he's been able to create and cultivate and maintain will always state that, well, A.I. never had any help. When he first got to the Sixers, that was already help there in the form of Jerry Stackhouse. He didn't want Jerry Stackhouse there because he wanted the spotlight all to himself. And he did not want to be a point guard, no matter what he says or any of his fans say. He ran Jerry Stackhouse off so that he could take over. And that is why he and the coach, Larry Brown, used to go back and forth like cats and dogs. Even after Larry Brown decided to conciliate some of Allen Iverson's demands to shoot and to attention-monger by making Eric Snow the point guard, they still would go back and forth like cats and dogs because it was very obvious to those who were observing and objective that their personalities were not going to match because the both of them were way too high-strung. And Larry Brown and Allen Iverson are both divas.
Playoffs. I want to know what you've been doing, what you've been up to, because I see you at the Sixers games. But also know you're, you had the second annual Allen Iverson Classic. What have you been up to? Working on. First and foremost, Max, I heard what you say. Somebody called me already. Okay, we'll see, we'll see if I'm wrong this season. A.I., whoopee. If I'm wrong this season, A.I. Max trying to his black voice. He was looking scared as hell when Iverson first start calling him out. Max is like, "Oh [ __ ], what'd I do now? Hey, I don't put a hit on me." You finishing up your book, brother? Come on, let's, let's be for real. You're finishing up. Telling someone else was writing your book. You want to have in there when I was playing, be a lot more handsome, picking them up from school.
Let me say this also, and I'll probably touch on this when I do the Kelis video in regards to the situation with her and Nas. It's amazing to me that so many of these females will get married to professional athletes and or entertainers and then get frustrated by the fact that they're not hands-on dads. You should already understand when you decide to get inseminated by an athlete, an entertainer, that he's not going to be around. That's part and parcel of what you signed up for. That's part of his job description is that he has to maintain an image for the masses. So it is what it is. But Iverson states that now he's pretty much a stay-at-home dad. Hopefully, that's enough to satiate his competitor fire because it's still there. And for athletes who participated on the level that he participated on and who had the competitive fire that he has, that's something that never dies. And often times, so many of these former athletes turn to drugs and alcohol because they have a hard time dealing with the fact that they can no longer dominate and attention-monger because of their dominance. Like the ones could even Jordan himself. You could look at him and see that there was a while where he had alcohol and maybe harder issues. When you look at his eyes and his skin, it seems like he's a little healthier now, but there was a stretch about five years ago where Jordan looked like there may have been some type of an intervention that was necessary. Allegedly.
Gonna be special, no doubt about that. But I do want to know about this book from this perspective. I want to know, no UV is cover-ups, and you have never been shy about how you feel. So what is this book going to tell us? A lot of naked nonsense stories that you're gonna tell, let's be for real, brother. You're gonna talk about how many times somebody pulled a gun out on you or you pulled a gun out on somebody else? Or how close you got to getting kicked out of the league? And how many women you slept with? Let's be for us all. It's gonna be in the book, and you're really gonna talk about how big of a [ __ ] you were and how fortunate you are to still be alive. And I've mentioned this before, our live Iverson, he's probably the most talented [ __ ] in professional sports history. And I state that with all due respect. Once again, he's probably gotten the most out of what was given to him, out of what he was blessed with, to be what, 5'11", maybe 6 feet, and be one of the NBA's all-time most prolific scorers, and to have reached the NBA Finals, and to have been able to win a game against one of the greatest postseason teams in NBA history, that being the 2001 L.A. Lakers. But his stubbornness and his pigheadedness and his unwillingness to share the spotlight caused him an opportunity to have a realistic chance to win an NBA championship because he never was fully invested in understanding the NBA game. All he was infatuated with was his one-on-one abilities. And by the time he was truly ready to invest mentally and spiritually and psychologically into winning an NBA title, it was already too late. And for a player of his stature, when I say stature, I'm talking about his physical stature, to not want to commit to the NBA model of winning championships early on in his career, all he did was hurt himself. So he's had to embrace this anti-hero legacy because he never won [ __ ]. And he probably could have won something had he been more conciliatory to some of the better coaches that he's had, whether it be a George Karl or a Larry Brown. When he's had the opportunity, he ended up with the Detroit Pistons, making a mockery of himself for a lot of kids and adults to learn from some of the mistakes that I've made. Some mistakes I've overcome. And let me also say this, at the end of the day, that Allen Iverson story is a success story. For him to be a brother who came out of the environment that he came out of and was raised in the type of environment that he was raised in, to be considered one of the most famous athletes in American sports in the last 20 years, and thankfully for him, for his family, to still be alive to be there for his children, he is a success story to me.
I synchronize him with Randy Moss and also with Michael Vick. That's why I mentioned them as encapsulating that era of the late, late '90s into the early 2000s. The guys who oftentimes did not give a [ __ ] because that was the type of mindset that the music was putting people under at that time, especially the so-called black man. And both, the both of them, Allen Iverson and Randy Moss, came from very similar environments. And thankfully for them, they were able to transcend a lot of the [ __ ] and they were able to transcend a lot of their own [ __ ]. So they were blessed for that.
Now, some players, the league has changed in a way that's bad for them. But when you play point guard, people, that's not the way you're supposed to play point guard. And yet, in fact, nowadays, it's a primary ball handler who can attack the basket, get to the paint, make decisions, and all that. And all offenses are designed around that guy. You ever looked at the league now? I think I missed my era. This should have been my era. If Iverson played today, he would have a field day because basically, you only have to beat one man, and then you're at the cup. So he would probably average around 32, 33 points a game on a higher field goal percentage. But he would not be any more successful in regards to winning than he was back in his era because the teams that went in this era play a style of basketball that he would not be comfortable with. Because if he was not ready to acclimate himself to a winning style of basketball back in the early 2000s, he would not do anything near that in this era where you have to pass the ball a lot, move without the basketball, and be willing to make hockey assists and hockey passes and not be concerned with getting the credit for assists. And not that A.I. was ever a big assist guy, but he is someone who always wants to be the hub of whatever's going on offensively. So yes, he would average a lot of points today, and he'd probably shoot a higher percentage, but his teams would not be any more successful, not unless he was raised in a different background where he was taught the importance of team basketball, which he never seemed to understand while he was playing.
More and more exciting. You know, I love the space that leagues and, you know, I mean, the superstars are definitely performing like superstars. We should be proud of the game, man. You know, I mean, and I think good for you for being so positive, but it's only gonna get better and better. I think the commissioner is doing a great job. He's alright. He's super liberal and a pansexual, allegedly. Do you find yourself looking at these Philadelphia 76ers, looking at these juggernauts? Without me. Listen, the bottom line is this, we love from a Makia, average Snowden, and George Lynch, and Dikembe Mutombo, Theo Ratliff before him, the crew. We were both there, obviously. But looking at this team, this Philadelphia 76ers team, you don't find yourself sit back sometimes, go on like this, damn, if only I was here right now. What to do? What to be? J.J. Redick, because that's what he would have to be. Allen Iverson was not a spot-up jump shooter. He was a scorer. He would slow down what they were trying to do. Once again, many of these people in the liberal sports media like to mythologize these athletes. That's why it's important to view, to observe on your own, because they love to create, fabricate, and mythologize. They play the right way. That's true. And brother, to be quite frank with you, you didn't play the right way, at least not to win, not to win basketball games in the long term. Very supportive of those guys. I mean, with that, like we left some, you know, I mean, I'm definitely looking forward to us finishing out this series and doing big things. I think our time is now. I think that they have as good a chance as any team in the Eastern Conference to get to the finals. Can they beat the Warriors or the Rockets? No, I don't think so. But we'll see. We got the coaching staff, and we definitely, definitely got the fan support. Marley, hey, you think they could actually win the finals this year? Yeah, I mean, obviously, it's gonna be tough. You know me. Um, but I just think we, we're talented enough. Anything happened in a series. I know there's some juggernauts out West, and it's gonna be tough for us to get out of the East, but I think we believe in each other. You know, I mean, I think we really believe. I don't think it's a facade. I mean, I think these guys feel that they can do it. You know, I mean, if you don't feel that way now, can you accomplish something? Like Philadelphia has a great squad right now. Ben Simmons and Joel Embiid as the leaders, as the pillars. They have J.J. Redick as a knockdown jump shooter who also can hold his own defensively. They also have Saric and Elias Okafor, who not only can stretch the floor but can get physical on the inside, can fight for rebounds. Covington can stretch the floor and guard his men. They have a great mix right now. I just don't think that this year is their year. Yeah, I think that, I think that they need one more year of seasoning. Just so you could alert our listeners, our viewers, to what you feel, how you feel about the process. When the fans are chanting "The Process," "Trust the Process," how do you feel about the process that has taken place in Philadelphia and what you had to go through? The game, I feel good about it because I feel like, unlike you, you know, people like myself and the rest of the fans in Philadelphia, they believe in it. You know, maybe we trust the process. Right way to go, Stephen A. Trying to call Philly credentials on me, bona fides, and say, "Oh, I broke through this many years of television. Philly, Philly didn't like the process." Blah, blah, blah. But you're safe. Really did like the process, didn't they? That the fans understood it, didn't they? Gotta believe it. Simmons out of the product. Well, it's easy right now for the fans of the Philadelphia 76ers to allege that they always believed in the process because now we're starting to pay back dividends. But I remember a lot of paper bags over the heads of Philadelphia 76er fans back in 2014, 2015, and 2016. But it is what it is. All's well that ends well, I guess. It was tough. It was tough. But when you were a basketball here like myself, and I thought you do kind of have a basketball head, maybe take off that hairpiece in the back, hold it on for dear life. A great coach we had. We knew what type of guy that uh, we had in there, you know, mean. He's come from that club, he's been around Pop. One, definitely send my condolences to Pop, his family, and friends, and everybody that loved him. But I do not think we were pointing in the right direction. Obviously, all that has paid off. So you got to take your hat off to the organization. Man, they're doing a super, super, super job. Go ahead, Max. Circle back to the league nowadays and your influence. I'd take another shot at it. I see your DNA throughout the league. I see Kyrie Irving and the handles and the crossover and all that stuff. I see Westbrook is the unbridled ferocity at all that, even stepped with the handles. I see your DNA all over the league. What do you see? How do you feel about that when you see your influence in the modern NBA? Well, without a doubt, Allen Iverson has had an essential impact on the NBA and everything that has come after it. There's no doubt about that, particularly in how many of the small men play with their elite-level face-up game. That's just something that you did not see throughout the '80s into the '90s, at least not on the level that you see it today. Now, you have many point guards who could break their man down. Kevin Johnson, Mark Price, of course, the great Isiah Thomas, but not with the consistency that we see it all across the NBA today. Back then, back in the '80s and '90s, when you had guards who could do that, they were considered elite, the elite of the elite. Now, just to make the NBA, you have to have some of that in your game. And much of that is owed to the impact of Allen Iverson. You know, especially when you see those guys, you go to games, and you know, they express to me how much they look up to me and they tried to, you know, emulate me and my play. It's a beautiful thing, man. Out there, I think it's a blessing. You know, I mean, I think wanted to talk these things for me is, you know, coming from doing this classic and, you know, Sandy's can and talking to him and interacting with him and they hanging on every word. There's a beautiful thing. I shared my arm, my mom has been in VA, the things that I went through all for the basketball court, the things that I had to learn them from, get better in, to develop myself as a better man, things like that. It's very special. Welcome those, man. What were those things? What were those disadvantages to be a better man? Just my decision-making. Well, that's good. That's the first step because you were a terrible decision-maker, brother. There's no doubt about that. But thank the Most High, he blessed you with the abilities and the talent that he blessed you with. But there's no doubt that you are a horrific decision-maker throughout much of your life. You were an agent of chaos throughout your own life. And to how much of the NBA, and I'm sure that many of his more ardent fans are gonna get upset about me saying that, but it's just the truth. It's just the truth. And one of the wiser things that the NBA did in the early 2000s, and I remember being a much younger man at that time and feeling like much of it was racially motivated, but as you grow up and you understand business and you understand the impact and the necessity to make sure that your market base is pleased with your product, you cannot allow someone to bring in a culture into your business that is not even a beneficial culture within his own community. Just is what it is. But you know what? I'm going to continue this on part two. Peace.