Dr. Will Cole On Managing Inflammation, Gut Health, Your Nervous System, & The Right Diet For You

Gut health, as a whole, is vastly undertalked about. How many people have these underlying issues? They're doing all the things, they're eating clean, but are still struggling with things like anxiety and depression, impacting not just their health, but the health of their family. Stressing about healthy things, is it going to be a source of information they'll pursue? It's just such a source, source of obsession and dread, which is a massive problem.

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Dr. Wilco, no, we were talking about, um, right before the start of the cold. Both set up what you're thinking about getting one. Yeah, because I, I recommend these to patients, but I've never, like, cold, cold therapy and alternating cold and heat. Because we're dealing a lot with people that have different inflammatory problems, hypervigilant nervous systems. So it's completely clinically relevant for people who are looking to deal with inflammation, dealing with fatigue issues and sleep problems. I don't really have those problems, but I'm looking to optimize it. I do the cold shower myself, um, and I have a son. I have been friends sauna, but I really want the proper rotation of it. But you like yours, right? Yeah. And, um, I wasn't going to start with this conversation, but I think it's good. I did it this morning, Lauren. We do it at least three times a week where we do the alternating cold and sauna. And I, we have an infrared as well, which I love, but I use the, the barrel sauna. Different than I use the infrared. Like the infrared, I go in there, I relax, I read. I feel it's like detoxification. It's kind of like, um, I mean, you would know, maybe hormone balance, all that. Like the barrel, I gotta find Jesus in there. I'm like, I'm like, what's going on? Is it more intense? Yeah, it's more intense. And I, I like to use it with the cold contrast. And the one that we use is Blue Cube, which I like a lot of. Yeah, I'm gonna connect with them. Yeah, I'll, I'll put you on text with the guy who's, uh, yeah, they're right. I think what I like about that one is it, it keeps the water moving. So see, you know, people get in the cold and they sit there and they like, hold themselves like this. Yeah, you build that thermal layer, so it's not as hard. This one, like again, you gotta find Jesus in a different way, right? Yeah, it's just like, it feels like you're in a running river. If you're gonna get one outside, I think Blue Cube is the move because it's wooden, it's grounding, like Michael said, it moves. And if you're gonna go inside and you want something sleek and chic, there's one called the Cold Plunge. Yeah, it's the white, right? Yes. It just depends your aesthetic, I think. Yeah, yeah. I know some of, I know those guys have talked to them before. But yeah, it's, I think no matter, these are great tools. I think especially for people that have like honed in the food stuff and the supplementation. And I think these are therapies that, uh, can be massive needle movers for people. So when you talk, I mean, we've talked about how we do it, but from a, from a doctor's standpoint, what do you think the main benefits of each of them are, maybe independently and then used together? Because that's how I did it today. I used them together, but sometimes we'll do just the sauna or just the cold. Yeah. I, for a lot of our, well, I have to say this, the sauna therapies and sweating, we definitely, I would say, use more for our patients because we're dealing with a lot of people that have mold toxicity, mycotoxin, they have chronic Lyme disease, they have things like glyphosate in their body, environmental toxins. So sweating and other ways to support their detox pathways is a smart thing for our patients. But part of that for a lot of people is a dysregulated nervous system. They're stuck in that sympathetic fight or flight stressed state. Both sauna and cold therapy, cold plunges, cryotherapy, things like that, is, uh, they're hormetic effects or mesis. It's like a good stress, which makes our body, our cells, our nervous system, inflammation levels, the immune system more resilient and more balanced. So it can modulate things in a positive way for people that are stuck in that stress state. And I mean, vasodilation, vasoconstriction, increasing BDNF, allowing your brain to make new neurons when you're putting it in that, that hermetic state. I notice postpartum with my first compared to my second is completely different. And there's three things that I've really been doing that I think are so different. And that is cold plunging. I notice, I swear, this is so crazy, when I get out of that cold plunge, it balances my hormones. I can feel it. Is that wild? Yeah. Well, yeah, when you're, when you're shifting your nervous system, a lot of hormone imbalances are brain-based. It's the hypothalamic pituitary adrenal axis, thyroid axis, ovarian axis. So it's, I could see it you noticing that intuitively is shifting your body into more of a parasympathetic state, which is the rest, digest, hormone balance state. I immediately notice it. And then I'm eating a bunch more meat, which I want to get into with you. And I also feel like weight lifting has really helped with this postpartum experience compared to the first one, where I had a, it was a train wreck disaster, basically, with with postpartum depression and anxiety. Do you notice that with postpartum people saying that with meat, with the cold plunge, with weight lifting? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, these are all tools to support homeostasis, right? Bringing back balance. Whether it's nutrient density from foods and foods that provide your body the raw materials it needs to break, make new neurons, make, make proper hormonal health. Or it's a tool like cryotherapy. So it's, and it's just stuff that still, I, I'm in my own little wellness bubble. I don't realize how much of the population, they don't know they actually have tools that are accessible for most people. I mean, if you, if you can't afford the cold plunge itself, you don't have the space for it. I mean, a cold shower will do a lot for your nervous system. And you know, mention red meat. I mean, these are all things that people have access to, or most people do.

Outside the health benefits you describe, the reason I like both of them so much is, you know, we were talking about this previously on the episode with Lisa. Um, I, I think people really like, they do everything they can to find as much comfort in life as possible, right? It's like the whole, our whole human existence is about being comfortable. How do I find comfort? And I, and I think that that could be a real trap for many people because it can make you complacent in a lot of ways. It could get, you know, it could, it could put you in a position where you're set up for failure when uncomfortable things inevitably happen or when something goes wrong in life. And what I like about the cold is it is so miserable, especially right now in the winter, right? Like today, I went in, it was 39 degrees outside when I went in. There's no sun. You're like, God damn it, it's gonna, this is gonna suck. But you go in there and you realize like, okay, if you can do that, and you, and you've made yourself that uncomfortable in the morning, the rest of your day, as you go and accomplish, it's a contrast and it shows. And the same thing in the sauna, it gets so hot and you're sweating so much and all you're wanting to do is get out. And it's like, okay, if you can do those two things to set up your day, I just feel like from a mindset perspective, it's so powerful. Yeah. And it is. I think that that is, and to mention my latest books on that, gut feelings, it's the physiological and the psychological. So that's a great example. I talk about cold therapy, sound therapy in that book as a tool to not just get the physiological benefits of it, which is, it's modulating the nervous system, immune system in a positive way. But on a psychological level, you almost use it as a meditative practice of like gaining resilience. Which I do feel like so many people are fragile for lack of it because we're not really, many of us aren't kind of exposed to things that are very, very difficult. I know that there's certainly exceptions to that, but I think as a general, if you look at the totality of human history, I guess using that as your backdrop, we live in a very comfy life. And to your point about meditation, like I think meditation is necessary and it's something that people do to kind of put themselves in a relaxed state, right? Like you're not relaxed in any of these things we're talking about. It's a different type of meditation. It's like, okay, I'm gonna go get really uncomfortable and be really miserable. You know, meditation, you could sit there, you're in a warm place, yeah. Like this is different. It's a different kind of meditation. But it almost gives you the same kind of mental benefits. Yeah, yeah. It's, it's uncomfortable. Exactly. It's uncomfortable, but it really anchors you in the present moment, doesn't it? You know, when you're freezing your ass off, you're not really thinking about the things in the past or the future. You're really anchored in your body. And I think that is, that that state that can really shift things, not just on a physiological level, but a mental, emotional, spiritual level.

There was a Netflix, uh, documentary recently, it's called the, um, Human Playground. If you guys watched that? No. Idris Elba was the voiceover, the narrator of it. And it was this woman that she carved the ice out of some Nordic country, I think it was, and would jump in and actually dive on underneath these glaciers. And she did it for the same thing of what I see on a micro level, so many people are doing from a therapeutic biohacking wellness tool. This woman was saying how it really changed her life. She was suicidal, she went through sexual trauma, and how this sort of getting in the cold and kind of almost, in a way, on a micro level, facing death, like being uncomfortable, kind of got her out of her own head and in her body. Which I think is a good for a lot of people. I mean, getting cold is a really good way to shock your system. Yeah. When you have your practice, what's the main thing that you're seeing people come to you for? Different. What I see it as, and what when we run labs and I know the mechanisms, it's the different states of inflammation. And that manifests in different ways for different people, depending on where you're looking at. But it's different autoimmune inflammation issues. So there's over 100 different autoimmune diseases that we know today. And there's 40 different, above those 100, that at least have an autoimmune component. So things like Hashimoto's disease, autoimmune thyroid issues, people that have Crohn's disease or sort of colitis, those are some common ones. Rheumatoid arthritis, Sjogren's, uh, those are diagnosed autoimmune diseases. There's about 50 million Americans that have that. But there are millions more that aren't diagnosable, but they're somewhere on that spectrum. And researchers estimate it's about four to 10 years prior to that diagnosis when things were kind of brewing on that inflammation spectrum. So it could be diagnosed, or they could deal with things like fatigue. I have fatigue, I have brain fog, I have, I have anxiety. And I, they tell me things like, I don't have anything to be anxious about, but I'm like, always anxious. And they'll use the phrase like, wired and tired. I'm anxious but exhausted. But it's different, different manifestations of chronic inflammation. That's the people that I see.

Are you seeing people that have implants inflamed a lot? I'm hearing more and more about that. Yeah. So that's a factor for some people. Certainly, people that have autoimmunity that have different methylation gene variants, you'll see in a lot of the breast implant illness community, the connection between the and the correlation between and different MTHFR gene variants, which are genes that that make enzymes that help facilitate something called methylation, which you need for detoxing and regulating of inflammation. One specifically, this homocysteine inflammatory marker. Those people, plus another set of gene variants that are called HLA gene variants. So there's something there that a lot of people will tell you when they got the explant, it really was a tool within their toolbox for many people because it's a source of inflammation for some people's immune system. So that's the sort of the bucket analogy, right? Some people have massive buckets, some people smaller buckets. That's your genetic tolerance for stressors. So it's not just about the implants, but it's food, it's toxins, it's stress, it's trauma. And implants can be the tipping point for some people. And they'll know, ever since I got the implant, it's never been the same. And those people, an explant can be a tool in the right direction. Are you seeing a lot of explants? Yeah. And not, it's obviously not someone, a surgeon that is, uh, on board with it for health reasons. It's not every surgeon. So there are definitely certain doctors throughout the country that are seeing this more and more. They really specialize in it. So yes, it's a part for, of some of my patients' journey. Is inflammation coming from our gut? Where is it coming from? 75% of our immune systems in our gut. So inflammation is a product of that. So it's a massive component of sort of gut-centric components to it. But it's what's driving the inflammation is really my job. Is it something physiological like an underlying gut problem, like leaky gut syndrome? Is it a food sensitivity? Is it a nutrient deficiency? Or is it something that's psychological, like on a mental, emotional, spiritual level that's driving inflammation levels and impacting? What would that be? Would that be like over, like being overly stressed? Chronic stress. Yeah. Chronic stress, unresolved trauma, uh, just, yeah, low-grade like shame around health and wellness. That can also, stressing about healthy things is a gonna be a source of inflammation levels too. So it can be insidious for some people because it's, it's less prescriptive to say, you know, I, it's easy for me to say, well, these foods can raise inflammation, look at the data, let's like shift the way you're doing food and supplementation can help for that. It's a lot more nebulous to say, don't stress, right? Don't have shame, or don't have trauma to unpack. That takes a lot more work, but it's important work for people that need to address it.

I also think that a lot of these high cortisol workouts that people are doing. For me, I notice when I cut those out, I was less inflamed. Like I was, I remember like a couple years ago, I was like doing like these like boot camp type cortisol-inducing workouts that are in the dark with lights everywhere, like you're in a club and the teacher's screaming at you. And the second I cut that out, I noticed less inflammation. Have you seen that? Yeah. And that's where labs can be helpful, labs and health history and context. But it's, I mean, exercise impacts cortisol, especially the more intense, shorter periods of time. It's, it that hypothalamic pituitary adrenal axis. The benefits of of extras is bouts of cortisol being increased. But for somebody that's all regular, all already having a stressed out nervous system, like put people that are postpartum, is a good example, right? They're already going through hormonal shifts. That may be the season that you don't just hit it hard with the hit training. It's like, just maybe something more restorative or something a little bit slower. And slower could be, you know, meeting your body where it's at and have sort of that mindful approach and pivot and not see it as failure, but see as just where you're at right now and serving your body.

What about parasites? I'm seeing more and more this top. I've been on Twitter lately, running around on there, and I see this topic trending. Um, but I'm reading, and they could be completely wrong, and you may say that's not true. These horror stories about people that basically identify parasites in the gut and then have the task of trying to get that parasite removed. Like, I don't know if you see any of this, or if this is just total, like myths. Or no, it, it happens for some people. I'm glad people are having conversations around this because I think gut health as a whole is vastly undertalked about. So labs would show us, there's no perfect labs for this, especially when you're looking at one stool sample, one snapshot in time. You can miss things like parasites, like you can miss bacterial overgrowths or, you know, anything else like that, yeast and fungal overgrowths. But it's interesting that people are having this conversation. I, I think sometimes the parasite conversation can happen around some anti-parasitic, some herbal thing that they're selling online that's like clearing it. I look, people, this, the vast majority of people have some sort of gut health problem. So the fact that people are talking about things and finding things doesn't surprise me. I would say parasites aren't the top of my list of things that I see on labs, um, sometimes. And this is like, kind of nasty, maybe for some people, but they will have like mucus production because there's so much inflammation in their gut. So sometimes when they go into the bathroom, what they think is a parasite is actually mucus production because there's so much inflammation. What is mucus production? Mucus in your, in your [ __ ]? Look, I'm actually curious. Looks like you, what one would think is like a worm. It's like a gelatinous type of worm-like thing. I'm not saying people don't have parasites, but I'm saying sometimes people can get confused. Like, I just saw this thing in the toilet, it's a parasite, but it's like, okay, so say someone has mucus in their [ __ ]? Yeah. What do you do? What a medical way to say it? That's the technical. What's the right way to say it? Like, what's wrong? How do you say it? Dr. Well, I mean, mucus in the stool. Mucus in the stool, excuse me, Michael. Yeah. And just sometimes when you say things, you just hit, it feels like a punch in the face, you know? But you know what? That's why I do what I do because that should not be happening, right? I mean, that's a hyperinflammatory state. And your body's given you a clue on it's not liking something you're doing, whether it's a food, environmental toxin, or stress or trauma that's creating the hypervigilant state.

So when you say environmental toxin, are you talking about cleaning supplies? Are you talking about detergent? I, for so long, kept getting this rash on my legs and I was like, what is going on? And it was every time I would travel to a hotel, and it was because I must have been allergic to the detergent that they were using in their sheets. Is that what you're talking about when you say that? Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's the products that people are using on their skin, cleaning their home, uh, yeah, it's, it's all of that. And we can quantify the most common ones, not all of them, but we can quantify a lot of them that we would expect to see on tests, blood tests, urine tests, or kind of see, is it accumulated in the body? Things that are found in things like herbicides and insecticides and cleaning products and things that people don't think about, but can be accumulated over time. And some people have the smaller buckets, use that analogy again, and it's hit that tipping point and it's creating inflammation levels in their body.

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My opinion, I am not a doctor, but I think that cleaning supplies are the new Roundup. You know, Roundup, Roundup is, they found after people were in it all the time back in the day, like 40 years ago, yeah, they found all these things that were so cancerous. And it, now they're all talking about it. And you see those commercials, it's like, if you have to call this number. I think that cleaning supplies are the next Roundup. I, I hope that people realize that because you should be a doctor, Lauren. You should queue. We can walk into see when your patients listening. Uh, I agree with you. And it's glyphosate. Still high in a lot of people too, especially, maybe this is controversial, but I see people that are more plant-based that try to do the right thing and are eating better than most Americans are. So there's no shade on that, but it's the messed up food supply that we have that I'm measuring glyphosate high levels in these people's coming out in their urine. But same with a clean environmental toxins found in cleaning products too. Well, they've been talking about plant-based, like, and that again, that's controversial. But I don't get why this is why? Because people get all riled up if you attack any kind of plant-based diet. But I think people don't realize some of the plant supply is not nearly as clean as they believe it to be. Yeah, right? They think, oh, I'm doing good because I'm eating a bushel of kale every week. Like, I won't touch kale with a 10-foot pole. I don't, I think, look at all the [ __ ] they spray all over that stuff. We talked one time, we were on the show, and we were talking about how like, I don't believe that kale is the, is the most optimal leafy green. People got really upset. Like, he's not a doctor, shouldn't be bashing kale. But there's no discussion about the way that they're farming all this stuff. And that, and all the stuff that goes onto these plants. Yeah, absolutely. It's, it's, uh, it's often times when you're talking about plant foods, it's what we've done to it. And that's why sourcing's good. But, you know, you don't really know what the farm next to you is going to be doing as well. So there's a lot of, when you're looking at soil and water and the impact that our food has. On top of the fact that kale specifically, for talking about kale, it's high in oxalates. It's not necessarily the best grip. It's used as this sort of epitomization of the healthy experience. You can cook it and it breaks some of that down. So if you want to have your kale, just look at preparing it properly. She's a pain in the ass. It's not good for your thyroid either. Yeah, I mean, excess levels. I mean, that's the oxidized. I have my, I'm just saying, I've been told to stay away from it because of my thyroid. I've been eating so much meat lately, so much red meat, and my hair has never been thicker, and I have so much more energy, and I feel so much better. Do you hear that a lot? Yeah. I mean, it's, it's a conversation because we get a lot of born plant-based people. It's like, okay, what are you willing to do? Meet a person where they're at and optimize nutrient density. But not just nutrient density, but the bioavailability of the nutrients that you're having. Because you could say something like kale has lots of nutrients, right? That's wonderful. But how bioavailable are those nutrients? And that's the thing with red meat and fish and pescetarian options. It's not only nutrient-dense, but it's bioavailable. Because plant foods have a lot of anti-nutrients like phytic acid and lectins that can slow down the use of it. It basically binds to minerals, making the any nutrients that it does have less useful or even, you know, accessible to your body.

What's your perfect day of eating? Let's say you just went to the gym, you worked out. Do you eat before? Like, tell us the perfect day. Well, you know, I, I, I want people to find out what's sustainable for them, okay? Right. So with my job, with patients, it's the bio-individuality. I still am curious about you. Yeah. So for me, I'll talk about me all day. Thank you. I want to know what you eat. Well, I mean, I, I do the Holy Mane every day. You like Holy Mane? I'm obsessed with that too. I think really mean. No, see, this is what people, this is what happens. I've hid it from you. Was like, you have to try this. And so what I do is I mix it in with my greens every morning. I put a scoop of my greens and then I scoop the Holy Mane in there. Yeah, with a frother. I did the same thing with, I do Athletic Greens with with the Holy Mane because it's collagen pearl in it. Exactly. What I do. You know what she does? She finds. I should be a doctor. She hides. Intuitively knew to do this. What's that? She hides. Where are you hiding it in the house? Is what I wanted. I'm, I actually, I'm hiding and I'm gonna send you a picture of it after this. It's hidden. It's hidden in our supplement drawer in the back. I just figured he wouldn't like it because, because it does, like, it's not like the most masculine looking packaging on the planet. Yeah. So I thought he would think it was like a beauty thing. Yeah, yeah. You have like a hidden door that's like behind, you know, there's seven grams of protein or seven grams of protein in that, right? Yeah, which is amazing, right? It's collagen protein, yeah. And for someone that has gut problems, it's one of the most like usable, accessible form of protein. So food, like I'm in Austin right now, so I, I've been living at Picnic and True Food Kitchen. I love it. I freaking love it. But I don't have that where I live. So it's just like a tree. But I'll typically fast until lunch and break my fast with some grass-fed beef, some greens. Okay. I'm gonna ask you details. When you say fast, the only thing you're doing is water? Or you're doing the Holy Mane and Athletic Greens? I will, I, that's not breaking the fast to have the greens and the collagen. It's not. Okay. Because it's, if you even if you look at the research around the fasting mimicking and the amount of protein they can have and calories, it's not, if something's not impacting insulin and glucose, or it's negligibly impacting insulin glucose. And when you're talking about protein, and it's not at all. So that's why people were doing like the butters and the MCTs because these fats and small amounts of protein are negligible. Um, but I would typically have mine around lunchtime. And are you drinking coffee during your fast? Yes. Coffee. And what I do for my fast is I will just have coffee and tea. So and really keep it as simple as possible. And the reason why, even the collagen, is if you want to get super granular about this, there's a pathway called mTOR, the mammalian or mechanistic target of rapamycin, which you technically want to be lower during your fast. So a lot of the longevity, like beauty benefits, the anti-aging benefits of autophagy, you want mTOR to be lower periodically, not all the time, because you want to build muscle and be healthy. But cyclical times of mTOR being low. So technically speaking, mTOR is sensitive to protein. So is that one scoop of the collagen protein really going to throw you out? No, it's not. Your, and you could test your ketones in your with CGM to see if this is true. But for most people, it's going to be negligible. So if you enjoy it, and if it makes your fast easier, because like the greens powder is going to provide you some fiber, which could actually make your fast quite easier, if it gives you some satiety in that time of fasting. So you break your fast with what you said, steak? I mean, it depends. I may have like two. Like I did get the Wild Planet tuna. Do you ever get the canned tuna? I eat that every night in bed. And Michael is the one I was telling you, I eat it every night in bed. He goes, oh, Lauren, you're eating tuna again. It smells. No, listen, I eat it every, every wild tuna. I think, doctor, the tuna is great. I think eating tuna in the bed is atrocious. CM, at night. Yeah. And by the way, Lauren, here's the move with that. You're eating too close to bed. Doctor, will listen to my tuna recipe. I take that can that you just said, and then I do a scoop of chili flake, like Maca, I think it's called. It's like a salsa. Okay. Well, it's like chili flakes. And then I do a little bit of mustard and avocado mayo, and it's perfect. I basically do the same thing. A lot. You, which would you bring that in the bed? No. Okay. My wife would not let me have it in the bed, to be honest with you. I made a negligible eating [ __ ] tuna for things. It is atrocious, honestly. It's like, smells up the whole bedroom. It is the dogs are crying. Hey, you want to hook up? I'm like, not anymore. The wolves are howling outside, coyotes. But don't you think that she, she probably shouldn't be eating in bed because don't you want to allow a little time before you sleep? It's not 10, it's 8. But yeah, but still, you go to bed right after. Tell me about it. So ideally, no shame. Look, look, if you like it, but ideally from a mechanistic standpoint, allowing, let's just say two to three hours after dinner before you go to bed allows your body to get a better night's sleep. So you're basically fasting through the night until the next day if you're digesting food in the middle of the night. So go tell me, you, you break your fast at 12. Tell me what you do, and then tell me what you're eating throughout the day, and then when you stop eating, explain. So I eat enough calories. I'm eating until satiety within my window. I'm not super dogmatic about it. It's a probably six, seven hour eating window, uh, sometimes eight, uh, eight hours in the eating window. So I will eat just different sources of protein. So that could be wild-caught fish, like we've talked about the tuna, grass-fed beef, chicken, turkey, something like that. Or some plant-based protein. Don't do it so much, but I'll have some beans occasionally, pressure-cooked beans. And I think prioritizing protein throughout the day is important when it comes to blood sugar regulation, neurotransmitter health, and it's definitely important. And then have lots of fruits and fruits and vegetables. I don't do lots of nuts and seeds, they don't work well with me digestively. Um, and did I mention healthy fats are things like avocados and olives, and I love the avocado oil-based mayo. I have lots of eggs throughout the day too. So it's a combination of that, and I just kind of eat and enjoy the food during those windows. What time exactly do you stop eating? Seven o'clock, eight o'clock. Yeah. And besides your Holy Mane and your Athletic Greens, are you doing other supplements throughout the day? Oh, yeah. So I, I'm doing vitamin D3, right? Every day. I'm doing a methylated B vitamin, which you're getting some of that in the greens, but I, I have a double MTHFR gene variant, which just means I need a little more support in that avenue. Do you have a specific B vitamin you like? Or a specific? Yeah, I have, I have my own, but, um, it's, it's a methylated B vitamins, but we have doctorwilco.com, but it's just things that we recommend to patients. And, um, you know, I take a D, a B vitamin complex, a D3 has the K2 combination, which are two fat-soluble vitamins. And what else do I do? Magnesium. I, I take a magnesium as well. Is it from your brand? Yeah, I, we have, we have it's a blend of magnesium threonate and plus glycinate. Yeah, it's the magnesium. We call it. So it's, that's basically it. And the reason being is because those are deficient in most people. B vitamins, vitamin D, magnesium. It's nothing too crazy. And then occasionally I'll have like adaptogenic blends when I'm, when I want to, but I'm not dealing with any active, I'm not super stressed, I'm not like dealing with any sleep issues, thankfully. So I've mainly focused on food and then fill in the gaps with any nutrient deficiency. So pretty like basic in many ways. And what is your workout schedule? So I, I'm a fan of Peloton and I do all of their workouts. I do like the, the full body workouts, upper body, lower body, sort of do a circuit with them throughout the week. So three to four times a week, that's what I'm doing. Nothing too crazy. I should be doing working out more, but I, I don't. And what about your sleep schedule? Just while we're on your schedule. So I don't go to bed as early as I should. And I track it on an Oura ring, and I know that I don't. But I get home late, later because I'm seeing patients all day long. So for me, it's like my time to just hang out and chill out, hang out with my family. Um, but I'm going to bed like 10, 11 o'clock. That's not too late. Yeah, it's not super bad, but I know I could go to bed at nine, it'd be even better from for my body. Then I wake up at six, between 6:00 AM to 7:00 AM. And do you have a wellness strategy that you do throughout the week, or is it just go straight to work? I have micro-moments. Nothing big. I'm not a super biohacker. I don't really, I don't during the work week. I don't have the time to do it. I could get up earlier and do it, but I, to me, I like the simplicity of just doing things that I know are sustainable. It's not overwhelming for me. It's nothing super arduous. So I get up, I do some mindfulness and prayer. We actually do it as a clinic. We do it together. When I get to the clinic, we do prayer, meditation together. So I guess that's a morning sort of ritual. Nothing too. Mine's like 15 minutes that we're doing a practice together. And then we jump right into the day. So I'm going over case reviews, and we are hit the ground running with seeing patients via telehealth.

You know, like what I think, especially like on a lot of these podcasts, I think sometimes people get overwhelmed because you'll see these people that are like so into these routines and so into like they're deep in the wellness. So I imagine when you're starting with patients, like you're not telling them to jump into the cold plunge right away and get in the sauna and go lift three times weights and eat all that. Like you got to kind of like, again, meet people where they are. And I, and I feel like when I'm listening to you, you don't have to do all these kind of, um, I don't want to say crazy, but you don't have to do all these intense things because your life is already kind of well-rounded and well-balanced. You're getting the regular workouts, and you're getting the right supplementation, you're eating in the right windows, you're doing the things that the majority of people probably should be doing. But most people have their life so out of balance where it's like they're not taking care of themselves, they're drinking too much, they're not exercising at all, they're eating the worst kind of foods, they're overstressing themselves and work. And so it sounds like sometimes when you hear these people, you got to go to these extremes like, no, you just got to kind of get your life in order somewhat, and then you can figure out how extreme you want to be with it after you've got the bases covered. Exactly. That's exactly how I feel about it. And that's a big part when I wrote Gut Feelings, it's that orthorexic spectrum that I think is a problem within wellness. It's like more is always better. And I just, and it ends up being antithetical to what I want for my patients, just actually enjoying their life. It's just such a source, source of obsession and dread, which is a massive problem. Look, if those tools, like all the biohacking stuff, if they serve you and you enjoy doing them, and they, they improve your quality of life, then wonderful. But I, to me, I don't have to do all the things because I, you know, I'm, I just, I feel great doing what I'm doing. I don't need more tools, you know? I feel, I feel the same way. And, you know, my, I think sometimes this intent, like you see these people that are so deep in the wellness community, and I feel they do a disservice to the majority of people a lot of time because they're too deep, right? Like, you don't need to get in, and you don't need to do all these crazy things. Like, for me, it's work out three to five days a week, lift some heavy weights, get in a couple thousand steps, as many as much as you can, maybe do a little bit of cold hot therapy, eat well, fast the majority of the week, you know, in a decent window, at least 12 hours. You can get that done. You're in the, you're in the one percent. Exactly. And that, to me, like all the things you just said are like to my tools within my toolbox. And if you have a health issue, you may need more tools. But to me, it's like, if you don't have it, and then you're just, you're right. I think a lot of people are like, dang, I could never do all of that, and they feel like they're failures because they can't just live and breathe all this wellness stuff. Most the stuff that I do, I think is accessible to most people. I also think if you're interested in something, you can start small. And what I mean by that is, if you're interested in the cold plunge, people will see the cold plunge at our house and they'll be like, well, I can't do a cold plunge. I don't have one for 10 years though. I took a freezing cold shower for three minutes. Like you said, I hung eucalyptus trees in my showers, not trees, but had freezing cold water cascading over me with the eucalyptus leaf. That was three dollars for 10 years. And slowly I started implementing cryotherapy, yeah, and then now a cold plunge. So it doesn't have to be all at once, right away. I think you can just use what you have. I would like to know, when I was a kid, I just did push-ups and sit-ups in my bedroom. That was it. There was nothing else. You still do that? I would hang on a tree branch and do a couple pull-ups. That was it. There's no like a fancy membership. Dog butt naked while I'm eating tuna. I still do that every day.

What do you do with your kids? How do you have your kids take on healthy habits? Because it's not easy. Out of all the brands, I love this brand so much, and I love it because my daughter loves it, and she takes it every single day. It's called Hiya Health. So what I found when I was looking for a children's vitamin is that basically they're candy. So most of them are filled with two teaspoons of sugar, they're filled with unhealthy chemicals, and just like a lot of gummy junk. But Hiya is superior, okay? It's made with zero sugar, zero gummy junk, and it tastes great. And I know this because I tried it. And they're perfect for picky eaters. So every single morning, I have her Hiya vitamins in this little white silicone bowl, and she takes it, loves it, and actually, like, I, every morning is like, Mom, can I have a vitamin? Which is so crazy. These are non-GMO, vegan, dairy-free, allergen-free, gelatin-free, nut-free, and everything else you can imagine. They're designed for kids of all ages. But the best part is, you guys, they're sent straight to your door. So you don't have to go to the market and just get their nutrients right to your door. Hiya has vitamin D, B12, C, zinc, folate, just everything to help support immunity, energy, brain function. Kids get sick a lot, so add this vitamin to their routine. Let me know what you think. It's pediatrician approved.

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Quick break to talk about longevity, muscle, and overall good health. We have talked about prebiotics and probiotics on this show for a long time now. They're both extremely important, but what we have not talked about in great detail yet is a postbiotic. So, what exactly is a postbiotic? Postbiotics are the active nutrients your body makes during digestion and an emerging driver of good health. And one of our favorite postbiotics is Timeline Nutrition's MitoPure product. Mitopure has urolithin A, which is one of the first postbiotics shown to have major health benefits. Some of those benefits include upgrading your cellular power, helping you maintain muscle. And studies have shown that it can also increase strength and endurance with no change in lifestyle. It's absolutely incredible, and I've been a huge fan of it for a while now. Like I said, my go-to for urolithin A is MitoPure from Timeline Nutrition. It's a Swiss-based life science company, which is a global leader in urolithin A research. Timeline Nutrition has three products designed to fit your needs: berry powder, protein powder, and the soft gels. I personally like the soft gels, but the powders are also great if you want to throw them in a smoothie or a yogurt or water, whatever fixes your fancy. They're all great, and you can't go wrong. So check this stuff out. Timeline is offering 10% off your first order of MitoPure. Just go to timelinenutrition.com/skinny and use code SKINNY to get 10% off your order. That's t-i-m-e-l-i-n-e-n-u-t-r-i-t-i-o-n.com/skinny. timelinenutrition.com/skinny. I recommend trying their starter pack with all three formats to see what you like. Again, that's timelinenutrition.com/skinny.

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It's not easy. I would say it depends. We as parents, like, if we're decent parents, we know our kids and we know to meet them where they're at. And so I think it depends on the child that you're talking about and the situation. But make it age-appropriate. But I would really start making it fun, like making eating healthy fun and not restrictive. Get them in the kitchen, get them involved, get them cutting things when it's appropriate age-wise, get them mixing things when it's appropriate age-wise. To a really, uh, I think most of us in the West are kind of divorced from where our food comes from, right? A parent told me years ago, they said, "I thought that fries came from McDonald's. I didn't know they came from potatoes." It's like, we don't even know where our food comes from. That it's like always the prepared version. We don't know like the root of it. So I think getting kids involved, first of all, is important. Second is, I mean, up until when they're of like 17, 18 years old, we as parents determine what's in the house. So I think make your home a sanctuary of foods that love us back and folk and focus on not these are things you can't have, but just say, "We want foods that make us feel good." And focus on feeling good and nourishing yourself and not about weight. And not sort of someone's, someone on my team told me about the Almond Mom trend on TikTok. Michael doesn't know. It's, it's like apparently, I don't know the origins of it, but basically it's like a mother that you had when you were little that was obsessed with counting calories and and would um, project her own insecurities around food onto you. You're the kid, and you have the Almond Mom, and you're eating, uh, sundae, and the Almond Mom would be like, "Ooh, do you really want to eat that? That's 5,000 calories. I would never eat that, honey." Right? Or like, "I'm really hungry. I'll chew that almond really slowly, just like, like savor that one almond." Yeah, like don't make that's not wellness. That's sort of unhealthy. But I think just eating nutrient-dense foods until satiety, teaching about sort of mindful eating to not like just eat when you're bored or eat when you're stressed, but like, what is actual like nutrient density and healthy relationship with food? What does that look like? So I think that's the first step. But don't be maniacal. Like, I, my son is super picky, 16 years old now, and limited on what type of foods he'd eat, but it was healthy-ish foods because it was in our house. But now I see him at 16 years old, I'm walking down in the kitchen in the morning, he's mixing himself like a supplement, adaptogenic blend. The dude's picky, and the fact that he's doing that at 16, I think we as parents need to plant seeds so later on they can make the decision for themselves to say, "Hey, I want to feel good." And he knows when he has that, whatever food that that junk food, he doesn't like the way it makes him feel. So he tends to do less of that. And I, I want every person to have that agency for themselves. Or what I call it for patients in the book, I call it food peace. It's not like diet culture, or it's not, and it's not anti-diet culture. It's like, "No, I like feeling great more than I thought I wanted something that's going to make me feel like [ __ ] the next day."

Yeah, I have a tip for moms that for like a one-year-old or a two-year-old. A frother. They think it's so cool. Like the chrome frother. They, Zaza thinks this chrome frother is so cool. And so I'll be like, "Do you want to froth my minerals? Do you want to froth my holy mane? Do you want to froth my bone broth?" And when she frosts it, she wants to drink it after she frosts it because she feels like she put in work. I swear it works. But it's like, it also, it's not just with wellness. Like, I think you can work out in front of your children. You could read in front of your children. You could do, you know, you could take a walk. Like all of these wellness practices. I mean, you know, for me, I became a big reader. But when I think about my childhood, I would see my dad sitting on the couch with a book all the time. And like, that translated because I'm like, "Oh, I want to kind of do what he's doing." Or, you know, same thing with a workout. Like if you're sitting there and you're not, you know, doing these kind of things and you're expecting your kid to do it, like they're modeling after you, right? So if you're just sitting on your ass all day long playing video games and eating [ __ ], like that's what your kid's gonna do.

Yeah, lead by example. And that they pick it up. You're absolutely right. In defense of Almond Moms, in defense of them. If anyone's listening and they had an Almond Mom, I think that we need to have and practice extreme empathy from where they came from. They came from a time when it was pushed in their face to have fat-free. They came in into a time when calorie counting was all the rage. That's the education that they were brought up on. So I think that instead of like, like TikTok sometimes it's like bashes the Almond Mom. I think we need to like give space to what they were being fed when they were little. Absolutely. And I think in many ways, it's a good point. And I think empathy and compassion and just like self-compassion are all great tools for humanity, but also for our health. Um, they moved the needle to some degree because I think you could probably look back and be like, "Yeah, they actually improved things a little bit." And hopefully, we can do the same. Yeah, it's, it's social media, right? We just pile on and it's not, it's, we lack empathy. Well, especially if it's a platform, and Lauren always gets mad when I talk about age gaps, but like, if it's a platform with a high, high majority of that platform being people that have not experienced enough of life yet. And I'm not, you know, I'm not just, it's not their fault. It's like, say that a platform is primarily catering to 13 to 22-year-old kids. And yeah, like those people have not experienced enough of life to develop empathy for older people because they haven't had it go through any of the difficulty themselves yet. Yeah, right. 100%. And it's just this echo chamber of stuff. Yeah. So hey, give the Almond Mom some love, man. Give the Almond. They didn't, that's what's gonna happen to both. You know, now you're going to be attacked for defending them. Got feelings. They didn't have the book. They didn't have access to everything that we have access to. So give the Almond Moms a break. It's like Maya Angelou said, right? When you know better, you do better. And many of them just didn't know. They thought they were doing the best thing they could.

But out of all the podcast episodes that you've done, because you've done a lot, yeah, what has been the most popular topic? It's interesting. People like myth-busting. People like to know, okay, give an example, like myth-busting about cleanses, or myth-busting about fats, myth-busting about veganism or plant-like eating meat. So I think that's part of it. Uh, well, people like that. People love them when they talk about mold toxicity and like healing from these mystery illnesses that we see a lot clinically. They want to know like, what the protocol is, what supplements they should take, what does healing look like, what labs they should run. And they want to know about longevity too. So I find that those episodes when we talk about longevity. I saw you just did a mold topic on coffee, or you did a post about coffee and then molds and you recommended sometimes you like how much mold is in in most coffees, I guess if a question that I'm asking, yes, in the wrong way. Yeah, I get what you're saying. That I, you're gonna have it, probably varies. And that's why I'm always careful with my words of like, this is most likely to be higher in mold, but you're gonna obviously have to test each brand. And that's the problem is that if these things aren't being tested, then you don't know. So it's like an unknown variable. So I would just, that's why I like tend to recommend patients who like coffee, which I like coffee myself, to go to towards brands they're actually looking at this. Because when you have a crop like coffee, just like other foods that could be higher in molds, like nuts and seeds, you want to be able to know that you're going to a brand that's pure, not just for mold, but other toxins as well. My patient base are people that are sensitive to biotoxins, so they have to be a little bit more careful. The average person, maybe they don't care about a little bit of mold in there. I don't think mold in foods are the primary drivers of mold toxicity. I think it's a contributing factor for somebody who's already mold sensitive. What do you think the most contributing factor, the biggest contributing factor to mold toxicity is? Sick homes. Sick homes. Yeah. Homes that are built, like the way that construction workers have explained it to me is that homes built today oftentimes can't breathe like they used to be able to breathe. There's a lot of like moisture when it's even built, and it kind of builds mold. It tends to build mold faster, uh, today. And we see a lot of new builds that have pervasive amount of toxic mold. And again, these people without immunity, they don't have the big buckets, the big mason jars to handle this. Guess what, doctor? Will, I am having test my home come out to my house on Monday. Michael has made fun of me. No, I'm not making sure that's my home comes out for nine hours, and they check all the bones of the house. They check outside, they check for like carbon dioxide leakage, they check for mold, they check for new builds, which our house is, they check for everything. And then after 10 hours of checking, they give you a checklist, they give you a huge bill. How did they say, "You gotta move out of this?" Everyone doesn't think I should be a doctor after this episode. I don't know what I think that's the title of the episode. Lauren's a doctor. You were like, "We don't need to test our home." Yes, we do. No, because she does. I swear to God, there's a true story. She does stuff in the neighborhood where she like, one time she smelled gas. And like somebody told her she had a great nose. No, no, stop. Don't stop. I'm telling the story. And now she calls the gas company multiple times a month, and they come out and they shut down everyone in the neighborhood's gas, and they're still, and there's, and they haven't found it. It's not the story. Yes, it is the story. Outside working one day, and I have a nose for God. When there's a speck of leakage, you're like a hound dog, a bloodhound. 100%. So I called the gas company. They came out, and the man came up to me afterwards, and he said, "Damn, you have a nose. I wouldn't want to cheat on you." And he said, "There was one percent of gas leaking, and that I smelled." Yes. But so now she's got the orthorexia of gas sensitivity, and she's calling and shutting down the neighborhood. Our neighbors are probably like, "What is this woman doing?" They're freezing them. You're freezing them out of their house. The gas company shows up with a SWAT team every other week. There is a company though called Test My Home. They come out and they test your home. So if you feel like you have mold, I don't feel like that. I just am interested to talk about it and share it with other people. Um, you can call them or you can like DM them on Instagram, and they come out and they test your home. Yeah, it's, it's an issue for some people. And look, I, I talked to a patient the other week. She was telling me, "I was having so much marriage problems. Like, I just thought he was horrible, and our life was was not in a good place." And then I found out I had mold toxicity, to underlying gut problems, and that was impacting her mood. And she thought it wasn't him. She realized when she got healthy, it wasn't him. It was just she just had so little resilience. So I think how many people have these underlying issues? They're doing all the things, they're eating clean, but they're still struggling with things like anxiety and depression and impact, not just their health, but the health of their family. But I hope there's no mold in your home. I hope so too. Or no gasoline, no big bills.

What is the, so we're talking a lot about gut issues and gut health, and I know that's like what you focus on all the time. What is the commitment like? If you, if I, if I'm somebody and I start working with you, like we've identified a gut, like what is the commitment of time and energy and healing yourself? Because I feel like this, to your point, like if you've done something for 20 years to yourself, it's not just going to fix itself overnight. Yeah, most people are actively with us for at least four months. And my goal for many people at that point are able to get to enough of self-confidence and have enough tools and, like, agency of their health to do it on their own, where they know they feel better, their labs are looking better, and they may come in one, two, three times a year to get retested on things, and we adjust things accordingly as far as the foods and the, there are other aspects of their protocols. More people that are more further down that inflammation spectrum, they have autoimmunity, they're very sensitive, they have like things like histamine intolerance and Mast Cell Activation Syndrome, and always more like gnarly, for lack of better words, things. They're with us for about a year and a half to two years, where they're not with me every day for that long, but every two, three months, we're at a cadence of retesting, checking in, pivoting, refining, because healing is non-linear. These are not quick fix issues. So it depends on where you're at, like how far where are you at health-wise, and where do you need to go? And I may have, this may be an ignorant question, but say that I work with you and then I've healed my gut, how, how much armor do I now have on that gut? Or how do I have to be, like, once it's healed, do I have to be so careful? Or just like, I could do one thing again and it gets back? Or do I have a little bit of armor and staying power now to have a healthy gut? My, it depends on that person's system, like how much resilience do they have. And that's back to that bucket analogy. Like some people have small buckets. That's genetics. Like your tolerance for stressors. Even when you empty the bucket with the, like clear it of environmental toxins and glyphosate and cleaning environmental toxins and mold toxicity and underlying gut problems, you can't change that bucket size. But you change what you put in it. But those buckets are still small, meaning they can't pivot much and go off the reservation, or they're going to get a flare-up. But the reality is, even those people that we clear things out, they still know their north. They still know how much wiggle room they have. And they have a lot more resilience than when they started. So it depends on the person's own resilience and what they can quote unquote get away with. But they don't even see it like that because they feel great. They really don't really need to pivot much because they just feel fantastic. They appreciate life because they're not struggling with these health issues. So they don't really have much of a desire to go for things that don't love them back because it's just like this deep sort of respect, I think, and honor for what they built for themselves.

I have a confession to make. I was supposed to do labs with you the first time you came on the podcast, but I'm so scared of needles. Hey, what do I do? No shame. I'm so scared of needles. I'm like, so scared of needles. Is there anything else I can do? Yeah, you could do, well, it depends on what we're testing in the bag. Yeah, you could do, uh, stool test, which you did. Stool test. You could do urine, saliva tests. There's other tests out there. And we have patients that are really, really afraid of. But and we find we'll do other, we'll test other things. We'll get the data we can get. So whenever you're ready, just let me know. I'm ready. I think, okay, I'm gonna do my blood work again soon, and I'll, and I'll send you. Yeah. Um, your new book, what can everyone expect? Where can everyone find it? What, what tangible takeaways are they going to get out of this book? So it's called Gut Feelings. And it's a lot of those are second or third. This is my fourth book. Thank you for having me on. You've had me on the, every time I pass through, yeah, past three other than Keto Terrain, I think, but yeah, this is my fourth book, which is crazy. But we knew each other. Keto Terrain. But I would have, yeah, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. No, but I appreciate your support. And even me being part of the Dear Media family for the podcast, I love it. I just love being a part of this group. So it's called Gut Feelings. The subtitle is "Healing the Shameful Relationship Between What You Eat and How You Feel." So it's really talking about how in the West, we like to separate mental health from physical health. But the fact is, mental health is physical health. And all these things we've talked about, like environmental toxins and mold toxicity and underlying gut problems, those things are going to impact how you feel. They're going to impact things like anxiety and depression and fatigue. But then also, it's, that's why it's called Gut Feelings. It's the gut and the feelings, the physiological and the psychological, the mental, emotional, spiritual stuff, like stress and trauma. And that science around intergenerational trauma is shocking. Like through generations, things can be passed and stored in ourselves. How those things will impact our physical body, I.E., raising inflammation levels, impacting our nervous system. So it's just born out of my clinical experience with patients and how when you deal with both and not either or, like the gut and the feelings, the physical and the mental, emotional, spiritual, that is where you will overcome these really difficult health issues or just feel your best if you're struggling with even low-grade problems.

Last question. What is the right household cleaner in your opinion? Oh my gosh. I, I mean, I, you know, I don't even know. I, I'm ashamed to not know. But I would say this is a good resource. The Environmental Working Group has a whole database where you can go and vet what you are using in your home or on your skin. So I mean, there's so many products out there. Andrea, my clinic manager, is here. I mean, I like Branch Basics. I love Branch Basics. They're wonderful. I like Molly's Suds. Molly Suds. You know what's so funny is Michelle Pfeiffer just came on and we talked all about her fragrance line. Huge fan of her fragrance line. It's the only EWG, yeah, EW, uh, verified fragrance that's out there. Michael and I just switched to her fragrances. You can stack them. They're so beautiful. And I feel so much better. I know this sounds crazy already of not wearing a perfume. It, like, doesn't bother me. But she also said the same thing you just said about the EWG. EWG, the Environmental Work. Yeah. She said, "Check everything on there." Yeah, I think it's a great choice. Yeah. And they do the same with food. They have the Clean 15 and The Dirty Dozen. If you want to like, if you maybe budget-wise can't get all organic or don't have access to it, then use that list and like The Dirty Dozen, then maybe try to get organic there or wash it really well. But the Clean 15, it maybe don't buy organic and just wash it off well. And that's the fruits and vegetables that have the lowest amounts of pesticides and herbicides. What's one of those? I mean, some of the highest are things like strawberries, tends to be. But they update it every year. You have to look at it. It updates based on the latest data of what it's.

Dr. Will, you're amazing. Guys, he's been on. This is his third time. We're doing a fourth time about cleansing coming soon. Where can everyone find you? Everything, everything is at Drwillcole.com. D-R-W-I-L-L-C-O-L-E.com. I podcast, The Art of Being Well. Listen to it. And, um, yeah, the book Gut Feelings. It's wherever books are sold. Barnes & Noble, Amazon, Target, independent. Yeah, we have a couple of ways that are signed copies. Yeah, that's we can do. How many you want to do? Five, six? Sure. That's, that's amazing. A handful of books signed by Dr. Will. Absolutely. All you guys have to do is tell us your favorite part of this episode on my latest post at Lauren Bostic and then follow at Drwillcole. Thanks for coming on. Thanks, everybody. Appreciate it.