Transcription
All right, everybody. We have got a special one today. I've got Cam Boden from Green Mango and let me just make sure I get all of it. Green Mango, which you're probably most known for. 1% club, which is an online coaching community for all home service business owners. I'm actually in it as well. We'll talk about that a little bit later. And then the host of the Premium Mindset podcast. Uh, I've been following Cam for a long time. So, we're going to go over the basics of kind of how we got here, but I have to ask you before we start. You've had recently, this last year, you exited for all of your five home service businesses combined, but one of them's the one that is kind of more branded and known for. What did you exit for? Uh, all all cumulative in total. What was the final exit that you did?
Well, I still have coconut, but I mean, what I can say legally is that I've built and sold five service companies for over nine figures. Okay. And so, yeah, Green Mango is definitely the biggest one by far. And some companies have been like ultra successful and some of them have been like just kind of like fire sales. Like the pool company, uh, investor pulled out and we had, we were one of the biggest pool companies in town, but I didn't know what I do what I know now. And it was just like fire sale. Three, we had 3,000 accounts and that's a huge, like that's big for pool service. I, you know, I was talking to a guy this morning and, uh, he's one of the biggest and he's like at a thousand. I was like, dude, like it was crazy. Like we were running 3,000 pools and we built that in like, I think it was 12 or 18 months, but again, pulled out and we just literally fire sold it to Pool Man. And so like I consider that a failure because it was just like break even. So like, yeah, we've been, we've been through it, man. We can get through it.
Okay, so with that, I've seen you on the podcast tour quite a bit, you know, seen you on YouTube, everything else. Are you sick of talking about the exit at this point?
No. No. It's, it's fun, man. Like I want to, my whole goal now is to inspire other people. You know, I, I always tell people like the things that made me who I am is just being disciplined and staying consistent, like, period. And so if I can do it, then so can everyone else. And so my whole goal in life now with my social media and what I'm doing in the 1% club is just to inspire and help people believe that it's possible.
Yeah. And getting proximity to guys that have done it before is like probably the most valuable thing of joining groups like that. Yeah. It's just like having proximity to guys that are like, you know, I was joking, uh, offline of like, uh, I ran into one of the other pretty well-known, I'm not going to name drop on here, but like ran into one of the other pretty well-known home service guys who exited and, uh, I was talking to my buddy after and I was like, these guys talk about the same things we do. They just speak in eight figures and this guy speaks in 10 figures. Yeah. And we just speak, I speak in six, seven still. Yeah. And like that's the difference. And I was like, but they're doing the same thing. They're just so much further along. And I was, I was talking about like just the proximity to people that talk like that. I was with him and a few of his buddies. And it just like opened my eyes to just like scale and what's possible just by being with him. They didn't give me a blueprint. They didn't give me like a bunch of coaching or anything. Just by being around that. And I think that's like the most important thing about the 1% club outside of just getting a bunch of sauce.
Well, that's one thing to remember as a leader that you can never forget is that we as human beings, we do what we believe. And so your job as the CEO to your employees, your co-workers is to help them believe. And your job as, you know, who you are to your group is to help them believe that they can become a six, seven, eight figure, nine figure, um, you know, person or 10 figure. And that's like, that's why I love the Roger Bannister four-minute mile story. It's like once that was finally broken, everyone started to break it within, I, I think it was a month. Like, you know, multiple people broke it. And there's just so much power around that. And so, yeah, if you're around people that are up to great things, you can see there's nothing special about this guy. Like, he just figured out these little tricks, which is why I'm so huge on, you know, mentorships and coaches. It was one of the greatest things that I did in my life back in 2017. I spent the money that I really didn't have. Like, you know, I sacrificed a lot to hire that coach and he literally like changed the trajectory of my life because one of the biggest things he helped me believe in myself.
Okay, let's start there. Do you mention him publicly, like who the coach?
Yeah, Mark Fornier.
Okay. Mark Fornier. So you reached out to him in 2017. If you want to say your age, how old were you when this happened?
Uh, so 2017, you're going to make me do some math. I was, uh, 32.
Okay. And this guy had a background in home services or something, I'd imagine.
Just a success and life balance coach.
Okay. Yeah. So, what's cool about him, um, you know, the story goes, like I met him when I was a little boy. He's one of my dad's really good friends. And so he's, he's he watched me grow up. And I called my dad one day and at this, at this point, I was probably making like maybe two or $300,000 a year. Um, and I was probably 27, actually. So like, yeah. So 2017, seven years in. Yeah. 20, 28, 29, I was making like 300 grand and I, and I just, I felt like, hey, like things are starting to go well, but something's still missing. I, I'll never forget, I was in my Peralta house, I was in the closet and I called my dad, like, hey, something's missing in my life. He's like, it's time for you to coach with Mark. And, uh, you know, I'm like, what the heck? Who, you know, I remembered Mark, but he's like, I said, why? He said, well, he'll help you understand human psychology. He'll help you understand yourself. He'll help you become a, you know, a dynamic leader. And I was like, all right. So I went and met with Mark and from day one, I mean, the price tag was, you know, over $100,000 for him. And it was just like, at this point, like, okay, I don't really have, like, I have it, but I don't, you know, it's going to take some sacrifice. And that's what I mean, no matter where you're at, you, like, it's okay to sacrifice that couple hundred bucks, couple thousand bucks, $10,000 to get a coach that can help, like, really believe in yourself. Like I had a lot of self-doubt.
Yeah. Yeah. I actually tweeted this like a couple days ago and it got a lot of controversy. Is I said, like, when I talked to you on the, when you came on the group call with us, uh, I talked to Evan, your partner in Coconut Cleaning, and then I talked to Dave Carroll from Dope Marketing all in a week's period. Right? Do you know Dave?
No.
Oh, okay. Uh, he's a, he owns a marketing company in Minnesota. They're killing it. So they're all, like, you guys are all in the same world in terms of scale of your businesses for the most part. And I was, I tweeted, like, the one common trend I've seen with all these guys, even when, like, you see, even like Tommy Melo and these guys talk, is all the guys that have had these exits or have built these wagons that guys like me are aspiring to, they all talk about two things. Every single one of them. They talk about finding A-players and keeping A-players and they talk about coaching and mentorship. Yeah. Every single one of them.
Like, and it's a common trend. And what's interesting in my generation, I just turned 30. So what am I? Gen Z? What am I? Is that Gen Z? I don't know. So I just turned 30 and there's like post-COVID, everything else, there's this like stigma around coaching and courses. And it's like, you know, it's like the stigma of like the Amazon FBA like scams during like all of 2020 and 2024. You would park $200 grand with some guy and you lose it all. And so like coaching and courses has like this really negative connotation. And then I've turned around and said, like, I've probably bought like six or seven high-ticket coaching or course products in the last like, six, probably like five, six years. Everything from like how I learned Facebook ads was from a course. How I learned, like, how to build the backend funnel to grow Home Service Accelerator was a program, a coaching program about how to build an online info business. Yeah. And like all those things. And it's interesting because the only people I see on social media and the internet that are like [ __ ] on coaching and courses are not successful ever. But if you like read the comments or whatever else, sometimes people like shy away from like, you know, like, oh, I don't want to invest in that. It's like, that's a sucker thing. But like, you, you're another person who's saying like, that the one coaching investment changed the entire trajectory of your life.
Yeah, it did for me. I know it's not for everyone, but it did for me at my point in life and it was, it was a game changer.
Yeah. And so speaking on that, because now you're in the coaching and consulting world a little bit. I wanted to know, so your 1% club, as we're filming now, has what is right about close to 100 people?
No, it's like, it's like 70.
Okay. Yeah. Perfect. So you get a ton of proximity to home service business owners of every trade.
Yeah.
Okay. Now that you've had your hands in all of these different businesses, what is, like, we'll start here. What do you think the most common blind spot you see in business owners that come in to the program is? Like that they have?
Yeah. Where you're like, you see a trend where it's like, man, I keep talking to these guys and they keep saying the same thing.
Yeah. Um, I'm a huge person on on being intentional to like knowing where you want to go. A lot of people don't, don't really, like everyone wants a huge company, but no one really, like, how, like, what's big to you? Is that 10,000 accounts? Is that 5,000? Is that a thousand? Like, in pools, 3,000's a lot, 2,000's a lot, a thousand's a lot. In pest control, that's nothing. And so you need to understand, no one, no one has vision of like where they really want to go and then how to get there. And so what I see is people just putting out fires every single day and they don't have the systems and the processes to put into place. And that's, I probably hear that a lot because that's what my bread and butter is. And so I, I'm sure I attract those types of people because I'm really good at creating the vision of where we want to go, but how we get there and like really, really detailed. You know, I wish Cody was here. He's getting some content. We're, we're redoing the helicopter and we're going to do a cool series about like the painting and the maintenance and all that stuff around it. But, you know, Cody's been with me for only two or three weeks now. And he's like, "Dude, my job description is so detailed that I literally have to read it almost every single day just to make sure I'm not missing anything." But I love that because there's no error in what I'm looking for or what I want. And that's what you need in a company. Or else people are confused and they don't know if they're doing a good job. And going back to that belief is that if they don't know like what it looks like to be successful, then how do they know they're doing a good job? And how do you as the owner know that they're doing a good job? Because that's where all relationships and whether it's like with your spouse or friend or whoever, like everything's lost in, you know, miscommunication. And that's where I see a lot of errors with business, with businesses.
Yeah. I, I've seen Hormozi talk about like the phrase like, just define it. Define it. Go deeper.
Yeah. He's really good at just making it simple.
Yeah. Like go another layer. And so like, do you think a lot, like especially for newer business owners that are, you know, like a lot of the guys listening and myself included, like I just hit my first like seven-figure year ever. Like it's all, no top line, it's decent margins, but you know, everybody says the top line to posture, you know, which we laughed about off camera, but, uh, like, so in that context, what's, what's really interesting is like, I talk about like, even three, four years ago, I used to say like, I want to be a billionaire when I was like 24, 23. And then as I've kind of grown, as I guess a man and like become a little bit more in tune with like what I really want and need, and as I started going, like, define it, define what do you, why do you want to be a billionaire? And then it really became like, I actually don't want to be a billionaire. I don't need, like, like I wanted. So then it became like, okay, I want comfort. I want like, I don't want to worry about bills. I don't want to worry about like family members getting hurt, anything like that, or family members getting sick and not being able to provide. And what's an interesting exercise, like you start to realize pretty quickly, like most dudes live like their entire lives like saying like, I want to do a certain thing and haven't even like remotely reverse engineered what that looks like in execution.
Yeah. Is that, do you see that when you're consulting too? When you're like diving into it?
Oh, yeah. So what's cool is, um, probably like four years ago, I sat with a successful guy and he was asking me the same questions and I didn't know. Like, I was one of those people that were like, I, I don't know, I want 100 million. I want, uh, like, I don't know, you know. He's like, I want you to go and I want you to make a list of like, you have an open bank account, like unlimited funds. What are you buying? Is it a, like a house in the mountains? A house in California? Is it like a couple different sand cars or Lambos? The Rolls, the big house, like, name everything. Okay, whatever you want. I want you to go through and look up how much it is. So, that's one column. And then look up the yearly like insurance and spend on it, the maintenance, all that stuff. And that'll put your number. Right. And what's crazy is like, as I did that list, it's not as much as you think. Like, it's definitely not a billion.
Right.
Right. And and and then it was like, and so I, he didn't recommend this, but I was like, okay, like, that's my, like, you know, limitless life. I'm going to go do that. Like, what do I really need? I don't need four. I don't need a Lambo or, you know, I don't need like a Ferrari and a Lambo and this. It's like, what, like, what could be like, yeah, like obtainable? And I went and made that list and did the same exercise. And then for me, I like reverse engineered it. And what was so crazy, I shared this on the 1% club, is that when I got my offer from Green Mango, it was like less than it was within a million dollars of that number.
Dang.
And that's crazy.
Like it.
That's insane.
And so like, that's what I talk about being intentional with. Okay. Like my, like intentional, disciplined, consistent. Those are the three things.
Yeah. So that's really interesting. And so bringing it into the 1% club, when you're telling them that story, I'd imagine like within the 1% club, you have proximity also to like the businesses that are doing let's say like $1 to $10 million a year, like somewhere in that range, but you see the businesses like on the trajectory, like they're about to blow up. Yeah. What do you see as like, what are they doing? What is the owner's temperament or what are they doing in the business where you're like, that dude has it figured out, like I know what the result's going to be in five years.
They're just applying the things that we're teaching. Like that's it. It's like literally that simple. So give us like, give us like one or two examples of like the things you teach, like when you do, when you go in there, you're like, dude, just keep doing this. Give me like one or two.
Well, the 1% club, like it's still not, there's nothing as great as one-on-one coaching, like period. Right. But it's also not scalable for us. And so, um, uh, today, I, you know, I love the ice baths and I love the sauna. And one of like the things that I like to do is invite people over. And it's just a cool way. We go, so like my little, like program that I do is we dunk, we dunk in the ice bath, we get in the sauna, we do like a 10-minute breathwork class, and then you do a two to three-minute guided session, and then we get back in the sauna. And at that point, like all all the vibes are there, right? And then we just have a good, like, we could talk about business, we could talk about family, we could talk about goals, we could talk about whatever you want. But it was cool. So I invited one of my one-on-one coaching clients over this morning. And, uh, you know, I was like, "Dude, talk to me about coaching. Like about the one-on-one, like how's it been? Like, what is it?" He's like, "Cam, we've literally doubled in size." And I'm like, that, like, really? Like, come on, man. Like, you've doubled in size. Like, you were already a huge company. Like, you've doubled in size. What, what was it? I'm just applying the things and the follow, like, the follow-up that you give me. And so some of the things that I focused on with him is going back and creating all these systems and processes within his business to give guidance to his employees. And so we go and create SOPs, standard operating procedures for every single department. So he's no longer running around putting out fires. And that's been the biggest difference in the last three months is, hey, because we create this system that's so detail-oriented of what you're supposed to do and the training behind it is not perfect, but it's like, it's as great as it'll always improve. It's like, hey, at least it's here. The training is great now that guy has all the tools that he needs to go be successful. He's no longer having to put out fires. He's been able to work on the business the last three months and focused on on growth as opposed to just like waking up and just doesn't know his day, has no intention with what, how, like what's important besides I'm just going to take care of my guys. And that's where everyone's at under, I would say even like $20 million of revenue. Everyone's just waking up, just my job is to put out fires. It's like, no, your job is not to do that. Your job is to grow the business, create systems and policies that the company can run itself.
So it's like the difference kind of mentally of being reactive or proactive in the day. And which, it's interesting. I've seen you talk about on Instagram too. You talk about like, you plan your entire week on Sunday night.
Yeah.
Like, it's very convicting to see that because as somebody who wakes up on Monday and just goes straight to that computer and just like my brain melts until my first meeting, it's the opposite. So like, what is like, what is the structure? Give us the sauce on like, Sunday night, you go, you look at your calendar. You look at like your, do you have like high-impact tasks that you're doing? Like, how are you structuring that?
Yeah. So I want to make sure, like, I, I hired another, you know, coach who taught me this. And so like, I paid, you know, a lot of money and like friendship and and all the things. And one of the greatest things is he taught me how to weekly plan. So this isn't me, you know, and and he says, like, this isn't me, this is Stephen Covey. Like, everyone's kind of making their own twist. So what I found, what he how he trained me on it is that, hey, first, you need to identify what are the most important hats that you wear. Like, what are they? For me, it's husband, father, uh, friend, a mentor. I throw in like hobbies, so like golf, uh, pilot, um, my relationship with God, and my family office, which is not only my personal finances, but like all the other companies that I'm doing. And so those of those hats are what I've identified is the most important. So that's the first framework of saying, hey, okay, if that's the most important, then that's what I should be focusing on every single week. And I try and make goals or not try, I do, I I make goals around each of those categories to get 1% better that week. And so what that looks like is on a sun, in on Sunday morning, ideally, if I have my ice bath, if I'm at home this summer, I've been traveling a lot, so it hasn't been like that great with ice baths. But you go, you get your mind right by doing a breath session, a sauna, an ice bath, and then you sit down and you write in your journal about the previous week. You, you know, you, for me, I highlight like the most important things that happened, you know, and in most, like, I don't cover all the categories, but it's like, what stood out to me last week? And I'll go write two or three paragraphs on each of those things about what they are. So you're reflecting on, how was last, how was last week? You know, what did I accomplish? What didn't I accomplish? Right? And then before I start the weekly planning, I review last week's goals. And so it's just a simple yes or no. Like my goal was to do, you know, go on two walks with my wife and give her a foot rub, right? Like, and it was like, did I do it or not? Not like, yeah, no. Like, yeah. Like, we went on a walk, but I didn't. It's like, yeah, yes or no. Did you do it or not? You know, like, hold yourself accountable. And so, I go through all my goals and just write yes or no. Do I do it or not? And then I have my hats and I go and I look at my week. Okay, what's already scheduled? What's my intention? Where's like, how can I make a goal to get better in that area? And I just go write simple goals. Some of them has like, have like four or five, uh, goals under them, and some other ones have like one. But the goal, what the plan is, is like, if it's a hat that you've identified as most important, you're at least doing something every single week to get 1% better in that category.
Got it.
And then after that, I put it on the calendar because if it's not on the calendar for me, it's not happening. So I go and actually like put it on the calendar. Like last night at 8:30 at night, like my goal was to give my wife a foot rub. Like it, like it goes off. It's like, oh yeah, I got to give her a foot rub.
Like, you have it down that granular. So like, wife foot rub is a calendar event in your Google calendar.
My assistant probably laughs so hard. But, um, you know, it's like, it's on there because it has, like, it's intentional. And then like after that point, I send that list to my assistant and just so she knows exactly where my mindset is for the week, how she can help me, how she can support me. And then it's like, we're on. And then in the morning when I wake up, I do this. I do the ice bath. I do the sauna. And then I'm writing in my journal. I'm looking at the calendar, what's on today. And I write down like the prayer for the day. I write down things that I'm grateful for. And then my area of focus around those things. And so like, I'm looking at things like three, four times a week on each task and each day that I'm doing. It's like, it's very, very intentional.
Yeah. It's like, you know, being a systems-oriented dude at work, you're just taking systems and building it into your personal life. Yeah. Like, it's basically just SOPs for your noggin.
That's interesting. So, I'm going to read you a quote. Speaking of systems, you can tell me if this sounds familiar. Uh, any system and policy put in place has to have someone audit it and make sure it's being done every day.
Yeah.
Does that sound familiar?
Yeah.
It was from your podcast. Uh, it was from your podcast. Now, I'm sure you.
That's not true. I'm scared.
Okay. So we talk about systems and processes and again, from the frame of which this podcast, this show usually gets done from is like out of the lens that I'm seeing the world in. So it's like beginner, beginner, step one level is like, oh, I need systems and operations, right? Like SOPs. And so you go and you build checklists and you're like, you know, this is the pre-truck checklist where this is when the boys prep the truck and it's there. And then it's like, this is the sales rep sales checklist, whatever else. And when I was listening to you guys talk about that, I was like, damn, I feel seen right now because the problem is, I made the SOPs, but like, there's a lot of things in both businesses that like, they're not being monitored daily at all. And then I, as an owner, am like getting pissed, right? Because I'm like, what? Like, we've had, we had this, I had this conversation in the company call on Tuesday, and by Thursday, the sales reps didn't get me their closure report, like everything. And then, I thankfully, like, you know, frontal lobe developed at maybe 29, 30, have a little bit of self-awareness and I'm like, dude, this is still me. Like, whatever, whatever reason it's like not happening is like my fault. So I got to figure it out. And then I listen to your guys' show and the, the whole point is like, if level one is make the SOPs, level two is accountability of the SOPs.
Yeah.
So like, when did you implement that in Green Mango? And what was like the immediate impact? Because you were saying somewhat of the same thing, right? Like, you, Evan laughed with you about like, you, there was one thing, I forget what it was, something about your reps or your techs, and it was like, he was like, Cam, how long have you been telling these techs to do this? And it was like some sales thing or some trib lock. And you're like, dude, I've been telling them for seven years.
Yeah, it's bad. Um, look, if you don't have an auditor in place, you might as well not even have your systems in place because you, people, they're like little kids. And I, I mean that with all due respect. Like, we get a, we like, we try and get away with what we, what we know we can get away with, period. And so that was the best advice that Tommy's given me yet. I love Tommy. He's a huge mentor of mine. And like, I'll never forget the day that we were sitting in his office and I was like, "Dude, you have over 30 locations. Like, you're running this multi-billion dollar business. How do you get your people to do what you want them to do?" And he's like, "I audit. If if there's a system and a policy in place, it is audited. Period." And that just holds people accountable. And that was like the, that was the missing piece for me. And so that's like, then an auditor is the most, like, one of the first things I would do in a business if I started. I have like my little 1% club, my family office. Now, my assistant audits everyone on anything that I put into place. Period.
The 1% club members?
No, I wish it was that granular. Like, stuff on my, like, on my personal stuff, like, hey, if I implement this, you know, like, whatever it might be, she goes in and audits it. Like, even the most granular thing.
Okay, so let's get tactical. Let's like, get like really applicable. So, let's say we're looking at a sales department and you're like, "All right, on every single sales call, to make sure that the communication from sales and let's just say it's a Christmas light business, hypothetically speaking, uh, you have a sales department and the issue that you created SOPs were for like the reason you created the original SOP for this department was sales people were selling one thing. By the time the installers got out there, there was something lost in translation. You, you know, get the other one. You get a different result. Customer's mad. Customer feels like they were miscommunicated with. Operations staff is mad at the sales guy, all that jazz."
So, you go into a sales department and you go, "Okay, guys, here's your new checklist." Like for us, it's in CompanyCam. It's like, you do not get commission on this sale if you don't fill out this SOP. Do you then you take like either your assistant, a some sort of maybe back-end position. You say, "Your new job is I have an alarm set for you at 8:00 AM, 9:00 AM, whenever you start. Your first thing you do is check these, audit that these were done every day." Is it that granular?
Pretty, depends on the volume that you're doing. And so like at Green Mango or in your case, you're you're making a lot of sales. And so it's almost impossible to go and check every single sale. And so we would say, "Hey, once a day, your your job is to check 20 sales." And she randomly pulls the phone calls or she randomly pulls these reports to make sure that everyone filled out that checklist. And if they're not doing it, like she's going to find it. And so yeah, if you're smaller and you have someone full-time, like she might have time to check every single one. If that's the case, then yeah, do it. But there's there's scaling issues and and at some point, like, you know, you just, it doesn't make sense to have someone going through every single one because if a rep has a good track record of doing this, like you don't need to go check his other 40 sales. He did it on the first 20, he's probably done it on the last 40.
Yeah. And then the other side too, is like a lot of the time in both businesses, like sales, I've found that like sales masks a lot of problems. Mhm. So like until things get really bad, then you start looking at taking a deep dive. And it's been like four weeks of like getting to the point you're like, why are sales down? And then that's too late. And so the idea of auditing it up front is like you catch it before it becomes a problem that you see in the bank account.
Yeah. And that's where the KPIs, the key performance indicators come into place of what you're measuring. And so, and like those are all the things that we talk about in business that again, like I really didn't have until the last four years of Green Mango. Like we had some KPIs here and there, but we got like really intentional the last three or four years and pretty much increased the EBITDA margins by, you know, 10 to 12%. And that's that's massive when you're doing the volume that we were. And it was just by getting intentional about what we're tracking. If you're not tracking it, you're not measuring it. And again, to your point, like we would get to the end of a quarter or at the beginning, like end of the year and be like, "Okay, like, let's look at what we did." Like, that's no time to be reviewing things and making changes. So like, we're making changes every single day now with our, with the reports that we have at Coconut.
Interesting. Okay. And like a little bit like high-level, like people management within this. Do you feel like creating a more stringent like SOP where the employees perceive that it's being tracked kind of like creates natural guardrails for them to fall in line more? It's like, you do it so that the business operates correctly, but then you bring in a new employee where they maybe worked from some for some other company in the past, whatever. They come into your ecosystem, they're like, damn, like this stuff's being monitored. Like I better be on my P's and Q's because it's perceived that it's being tracked properly.
Yeah. I mean, I always talk about Bill Belichick and Tom Brady. Like it was the Bill Belichick and Tom Brady way. If you came to the Patriots, you're not going to go be a slacker.
Why?
Because they created that standard. And again, I don't, I don't know of an employee that starts a company and is like, I'm going to, I'm going to be a piece of crap here. I'm going to be the bottom guy. Like, no one, no one wants to be that guy. And so our job is to help train those people to help them meet their potential. And part of that is by being this like, that crazy or that, you know, detailed, it tells them like where we want them to be. And then going back to the belief is like, once they hit it, they know like where's the finish line at? And that's the problem with a lot of companies is that they don't like, they don't show the finish line for their employees. And so they're just like constantly running. Like imagine if I was like, "Hey, let's go run." And and I didn't tell you like where, like when we were going to stop, but we just kept going and I didn't let you stop, you know? You're like, "Dude, Cameron, like I'm done, bro." It's like, "No, we got 10 more miles." It's like, "All right, maybe I can make 10." You know? And and so with that's what I love about like creating a system and a policy and like a finish line is like, "Hey, this is your job. You hit these benchmarks, I like in my eyes, you are successful. Like you are my guy." And that gives them an obtainable like benchmark for them to hit.
Mhm. And then you guys have talked about this a lot at length. Then you tie in a more aggressive performance pay model to those KPIs and that's where you like maximize the value per employee or the output per employee.
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you're always going to have a ceiling with, uh, like management and levels, but I would try your best to not have a ceiling on their earning potential. So the more revenue they bring in, like keep paying them more and keep them motivated.
Yeah. And you talked about like, I think performance pay is something that like, even on social media, I just see is a really common thing that people are like desperately trying to implement. There's companies that come in and that's all they do, which is news to me. They come in, they help you create like performance-based scales, like whatever else. Uh, on one of your guys' episodes, you talked about like a, a few years back, well, before you were getting ready to to part ways. Uh, you had a consultant come in and you said that you told Evan, like, I was embarrassed to show him our pay scale at like the current time.
Yeah.
What was what was wrong with it then? And what did you change where it was like, then you figured it out?
Just your typical, like, you're starting out, you make $17 an hour. You hit a year mark, you make $18. You go to two, like, and it's just like, you know, very little incentives to grow, to do upsells, you know, to do all the little things that a business needs to capitalize on with their customer base. Like those customers are going out and getting rodent stations or termite bait stations or weed control somewhere. Like it might as well be us. Why don't we educate them and upsell them to our product? They already know we're the best for, you know, the general pest control around the home. And we were missing that mark. And in a large portion of that was because like we didn't have a good pay structure in place to like, if a technician's servicing the house, if he only makes another couple bucks for upselling to like weeds, like he's not going to spend the extra time doing it. He doesn't care. It's $5, $10.
So, you got to motivate him in a way that like everyone's winning.
Yeah. And it's like, it's almost like the, the beginner level version of this is that a company comes out and they give an employee $5 per five-star review.
Yeah.
And then you realize like, that doesn't really scale. It doesn't make sense. And especially as the business gets bigger, you also just naturally are going to get more review volume anyway. And so then parting ways with that didn't really make sense. And then it's like the intermediate level is like, you give them commission. And then it's like the expert level is you give them a maybe a bit a bit less on the hourly rate bottom line, but just like a potential to perform so well that they make a lot more money for their family.
Well, the other thing that was embarrassing for us is that like it was so complicated that like I could barely understand it. And what was funny is like the person that was doing our payroll could barely understand it. And if she's in charge of payroll and like I'm confused and the tech's confused, like everyone's confused and we're probably paying wrong and all these different things. And so like the more simple you can make business, which is why Alex Hormozi has accomplished what he has, like he just makes things so simple. Pay scales, business ideas, business principles, SOPs, like all the things. That's when you have success in the business. Like when the, when the wife and Tommy says it best, like when the wife can call the husband at 2:00 and say, "Hey, have you hit $3,000 today?" She knows exactly what it means for him when he hits $3,000, right? She's motivating him. She's pushing him. She knows that that makes, you know, what Tommy calls pinnacle club. Like all those little things they have in place. Our wife's, I, if I don't understand it, our wife definitely doesn't, you know, the technician's wife doesn't understand it.
No, it makes a lot of sense. I think the simplicity thing is like a conversation you could probably, we could go on for like two hours about that. Like every different possible stage of the business. The thing, and it was funny, it's a hormone thing, like that was where I kind of came to it too, is I watched him deliver such complicated, previously such complicated, like MBA-level concepts in business to like, me at 24 could like completely wrap my head around it. And so I was watching him do that and I could, anyone with a brain knows that like at some point, if someone's making content online, they're selling something, whether it's like, you know, an audience or whatever it is. Like, no one's doing it out of the kindness of their heart. Now, some people do, it doesn't mean you're, it doesn't mean it can't be both. But regardless, so one of the things we implemented is, and it's a little bit different than pest control. I'm going to have you bear with me a little bit, but like, when we would give out quotes to people, there'd be, you know, you had Zay back out. I saw you get your Christmas stuff. Someone does Christmas stuff on your guys' house. So I see the wreaths and all that jazz. Um, we can talk about that offline, but we would give out quotes and we would we would incentivize the closers, the sales guys, the designers, whatever you want to call them to like, you know, give a fast-action discount. Let them let them grab a spot on the calendar while you're there. In return, we'll give them a hundred bucks off, whatever else. And we would get a few that way. But what we would notice is we would send these estimates and it would be just like text on a screen and like there's no photos, there's no whatever. And I started looking at our process and I was like, "Okay, hold on. If they don't close in person, then what's happening is if you talk to the wife in person, she's then going and becoming your sales rep to the husband. Or if you talk to the husband in person, he's going and becoming a sales rep to the wife. And you know, we can pretend it doesn't happen, but you know, they probably got another competitor or two in there if they didn't close on the spot, right? And so, one of the things we changed was I was like, this is the new concept, and we did this two years ago, and our sales exploded. Our average ticket went way up. Was I was like, you are going to itemize every single thing like it's an Amazon shopping cart. Oh, cool. You're going to make, you're going to zero out everything. You're going to put a photo and you are going to, when you're making these quotes, you're going to take your quote before you send it to the customer and you're going to give it to your girlfriend. So, I was telling my sales guys, give it to your girlfriend and tell and have her explain to you what's being.
Love that.
Right? And, uh, in the beginning, and it was, but it was like the best way to do the exercise because, you know, we, we realized like our close rate went up by like 10, 11% year-over-year just off of doing that. And our average ticket went up like 20 something percent. Because what we realized is like, you just became the second you left, like, you, your, your process was so complicated like that you were expecting the wife or the husband to just somehow become a sales rep for Valley Christmas Lights and explain the value to this wall while we're 30 to 40% more expensive than everybody else and expect it to close.
Yeah.
And it just didn't. And so that lesson has kind of gone into like everything else in business too. Like, the, the phrase we use a lot is like, uh, like if an alien came to Earth and you had to explain to this alien who had never seen business or anything like, can you wrap your head around this concept we're trying to accomplish? Does that make sense?
Yeah.
And it's interesting, even the highest level, like, that opens up like my blinders to me on like, we're just implementing some performance pay and I'm like, it's probably too complicated already.
Yeah. Yeah. Cuz you try and like protect yourself in every angle and it's just, you're just hurting yourself. Like, yeah, you got to protect yourself, but find a way for it to just be simple. And some areas you might lose on and some areas they might lose on, but the, the goal is like, you're just trying to find a simple pay scale.
Yeah. And it's like you might lose with one guy, but the mean of it is going to work for the business long term.
Well, I mean like we would be like, "Okay, we want to pay 17% per house." Well, what happens when they go to a huge commercial job? You know, it's like, okay, then, okay, let's pay 12% on huge commercials. If it's over 400, and then we make like 400 to 600, they get 16%. 500 to a,000, they make 18%. And then, like, we have this huge, it's like, no, dude, just like take the averages and say, "Hey, look, on average, you're going to spend 10% of your time on commercials that are over that, so you'll make more on that." But sometimes you also spray these little like,000 2,000 foot homes. you're in and out in 20 30 minutes like we're going to kill it on that and you're going to make a little bit less. Like so at the end you're winning.
Yeah. And then it's like it's kind of like the more complicated you have the pay scale just knowing how much you guys value culture. Is it a fair guess to say like when it was complicated you would error on the side of paying of overpaying.
We always lost on that.
Right? Because it's like oh it's a tossup. Just give it like we're good culture. Just give it give it to the rep. And it like doesn't seem that.
Yeah. It doesn't seem that big of a deal until you look at the P&L.
Well, and people wouldn't know like have a decent idea of what they're making. So, how are they supposed to budget their income off of it? And that was a huge problem for a long time. Like, how much do you make? I don't know. Like, how do you not know how much you make because it literally swings so much?
No, it makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. And then if they don't know what they're making, they're not going to be incentivized to perform. Speaking of culture, do you agree with the quote higher slow, fire fast? Are you a higher fast, fire fast? What's the What's your model?
Oh, I've probably gone in like I've probably been everywhere.
Yeah.
Um, my thing is is that if you have the right procedures in place and you've created the right training curriculum, give them a chance. you you should know this and this is the exercise that I and it's just a brainstorm session like sitting down and like as as as entrepreneurs we have so much going on in our head that like when we think about something it gets like 10% you know um focus for a little bit and then it's just kind of here or there where it's like dude let me focus with you for a minute on this topic. Where do you really want this guy to be in three months from now? Cool. That's the first milestone. Where do you want him to be in six months from now? Okay, great. That's the second milestone. How do we get him from from point A to point B? If you were hiring your son today, what podcast would you want him to listen to? What books would you want him to read? Who in the who in the organization would you want him to meet with? Right? I was doing this exercise with Evan the other day. I'm like, what makes a top producer? And one of the things that we identified is the top producers in our sales training, they sit on the front right uh table. So I said, "So the like our requirement now if you're hired under six months is when you come to a sales training, you sit at the front right table."
Whether it's the front left or front right, I don't know. But we chose front right because that's where all the high, you know, high guys meet, you know? So it's like for some like who are the low guys? The back corner. So like we're going to the guys and saying, "Hey, why are you sitting in the back?" I don't know. It's like, "Well, you have the lowest job average. Like get your butt to the front." like some there's some correlation here that when you sit in the front your job average increases so why don't you come sit at the front and so you're identifying all the little small things that get you to where you want them to be and that's what's missing with entrepreneurs that I see the most and that's where it goes back to like there's nothing special about us right but we are the best in our organization why what did we go through.
We went through all the little things and then we had a strong why of what of like why we're doing it so that we paid attention to detail. If you can find that why with every single employee, they're going to become as good or better than you in that department.
Yeah, that's the goal.
Yeah. And it's still like, it's funny, completely different subject, but it goes back to like when you were talking to Evan about like getting top performers. It's define it. So, it's like.
I want a top performing tech.
We all do. Yeah.
What does that mean? It means that he does this amount of revenue. Okay, cool. What does that average job size? Okay, cool. What does that mean? like where does he sit in the you know and you can go like essentially 20 30 layers deep to the point where by the time you get to the bottom you've got probably a checklist of 15 things that's crystal clear of exactly what they want temperament emotion team player like all that stuff.
Yeah. So it to go back to your question like do I hire fast? It's like, yeah, I like to hire fast, but I also like to give them a recipe for success. And then if I see that they didn't hit milestone one, which is three months in, I'm like, hey, sorry, bro. Like, you had every like I gave you everything. I know it's literally an effort.
Yeah. Where where do you like where did you become confident enough in the system that like cuz you know the worst entrepreneur blames uh, you know, the employee for everything?
Yeah.
Right. And then it's like, oh, he's such an idiot. The guy was such a dick. Right. And it's like a very like very low IQ EQ way to act. At what point did the systems become so rigid and consistent where you're like okay this is this is crystal clear like if they can't hit this then we know they have to go and it's like I don't care if they're a sweet guy. I don't care if like where where is like what was it? Did you have a moment or you just like you had enough data come in that you're like okay this is pretty crystal clear.
Yeah. I mean obviously like it wasn't perfect. Nothing ever is right. But I I feel like we got we got really good like the last two years because I started to see like how powerful it is and was.
And do you know when you have a new employee, you know, like the first week whether they're going to hit it or not or you get surprised?
Um I mean I'm wrong a lot. Like it's it's hard like everyone everyone interviews well, right? And so yeah, I I feel like I I feel like everyone should know within the first week. you get a pretty good gut feeling on somebody. Yeah. Yeah. We've we've seen the same. And that unfortunately you can like the temptation sometimes as an owner is you become a little bit of a cynic.
Like.
Well, what's cool too is like you can point that out to people and that's where we encourage the one-on ones every single week with direct reports underneath you. And so like if it's a week in and you're sitting down and you're just saying, "Look, man, like I'm just being honest with you. Like you interviewed this way. I got really excited this past week. I haven't seen you. Like we have everything in place for you. talk to me like what's going on? Oh, this happened, that happened, or I don't understand. Like, it's open communication, but most company owners aren't even doing one-on- ones with their direct reports.
And so, like, you again, that guy didn't start saying, "I'm going to be the biggest piece of crap in this organization." Like, he wants to be a good guy.
Yeah.
And so, like, you know, you have to look at yourself in the mirror and you have to have that open communication. If again going back to your son, if he came and worked for you, would you not be talking to him every single day or every single week about how like things are going cuz you want him to succeed?
Yeah.
I would I would hope so. You know, like so why aren't we doing that with our new hires?
Yeah. Kind of like the I don't remember who I stole it from, but it was like uh like when I was making the positions and like the comp structure for sales and you know, when we started getting employees, the big thing for me was like if I was in their position, would I think this is a good gig?
Yeah. And like just that exercise because like at one point you're looking at your numbers you're like this is what the business would need. Then the other side you're like well that doesn't matter if no one takes the job or the only people taking the job are low-level performers. Yeah.
So it's kind of interesting. I like that. I think the sun thing is like probably really relevant for dads.
Yeah.
I don't know.
Daughters or dogs.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. With with my with my husky. If we if we hired Petey if we hired Petey, what would we do? Um, okay. So that's uh I'm going to change gears because I have another quote. I have another quote and you can tell me who it was. Um, marketing and sales, how important let's start here. How important is speed to lead at the organization of any size? Speed to inbound lead.
Yeah. I mean, you know the stats of you know drops off your closing percentage by 80% if it's not contacted within the first three minutes.
So.
So after that I have a quote for you.
Uhhuh.
We were spending 10 We were spending tens of thousands of dollars a month on ads, sometimes more, and were calling people once.
Yeah.
Does that sound for multiple years?
Did that sound familiar?
Uhhuh.
Okay. Do you want to tell everybody who that was?
That was me.
Okay, got it. You're.
Just trying to roast me, man. No, I'm just kidding.
No, it's didn't come out of your own mouth. I wouldn't bring it up.
Okay. So, speed to lead has become like the hot topic, right? In home services specifically. I don't know if it's because there's a lot more content made about home services. Maybe I just have more proximity online. Speed to lead is like the main thing like when we implemented that with the system we were talking about just made sense. Shout out to Snipy Lead. Uh.
But then it's followup. What sort of structure and system did you have to make sure follow-up was there? And then when did you guys decide like something was dead? Yeah. So, I got I got really crazy um because I started to see all the millions of dollars that we were putting into these leads. And then if you have a great CRM to track it, you're seeing that guys just don't like they just don't care, period. Your salesmen don't care about the leads. They just want to get their 10 to 15 accounts a day and be done, right? And so, we had a very I call it crazy because it kind of is. It's like it's a double call, right? lead comes in, you try and like you call them once, no one answers the first one. You double call right back. They don't answer. It's call, text, email, selfie video. And sometimes they' fight me on the selfie video, but the times like that they did do it, it was successful. And that's where I like it just adds that personal touch. It's a real life. It's everyone's aware of AI and and all these things that are just automated. Like they want to feel that you are a person. And so like when you do a selfie video in the office, hey, it's Cam. I'm here till like six o'clock. I just I want you to know like I want to get you taken care of. Call me. Let me know what time's good for you. I'm here for you. You know, I'll get you I'll hook you up on whatever whatever promo you have going on. Like that's just one more like added little touch point that you can do for them. And so we would run that to where and I would have them do it every two hours. So, here's what got crazy, too, is like I went and I analyzed, okay, if I had how long does it take to call, text, email, send a selfie video, or if I would send a selfie video three times a day, but like send it once. How long does that take? I think if I remember, it's like a minute 40. And so, I was like, I'll give the guys 2 minutes to do this, right? How many leads can they hand like what is their bandwidth? We understand technician bandwidth.
M. I was I was giving salesmen too many leads to follow my cadence that I wanted. And so I forget the exact numbers right now, but whatever it was, I was like, "Hey, you can only handle 60 leads at once cuz 30," and I'm just throwing this number out there. Let's say it's 30 an hour. You can only handle 30 leads an hour because by the third hour, I want you doing the same thing on those people. And so it came out to a formula of like, "Hey, we'll close two to three sales an hour. Each cell is 7 minutes long. So that leaves you about 40 minutes to do all your call, text, email, follow-up with everyone. And so we would we would give a lead to a salesman and they would work it that way for 5 days or no, it was like three or four days we tested it out and I think we ended on three, but originally it started at five. It was like after 3 days if they haven't responded three times a day to call, text, email, like they're not worth our time. We've exhausted that. And not just like don't, you know, if you call someone at 8:00 every single day, like they're probably at work. call them at noon, call them at three, call them at one. Like you got to test it on different times, too, right? And um, and so after three, I think it was three days, it was like, okay, like put it into the different funnel and then they just get automated dripped and on a campaign that hopefully they come back at some point.
Yeah. So, like once you like you put them through three you put the lead through three days of hell and then you put them into like everyone's so like worried about uh, you know, offending that lead and it's like bro they don't give a crap about you anyways you know like be be respectful about it but like call them.
Dude, I said it on the call the other day cuz we were setting up a bunch of people on Snipy Lead and I was talking to them about like we hit people with five text messages and a voicemail if they don't respond like they are getting.
Five straight gray uh over a over a 3-day period.
Yeah.
So, rookie league. What did you say?
I said that's rookie league. I'm just kidding.
It was something. Well, it's it's initial text.
I'm just playing. I think it's great.
Yeah. It's initial text. They get an auto call. So, like the sales rep's phone ring says, "You have a new lead. Press two to get connected. Connects to the customer. Customer doesn't answer. Get a voicemail drop." And then the text nurture of like three to four things goes over three, four days.
And I got push back from these guys in the group and they were saying like, "Oh, I just, you know, it feels annoying." And I said, "They're already not your customer.
They can't not be your customer twice.
They're not going to re not be your customer. They're already it's a zero in the balance sheet right now. Zero." And it's like that kind of frame of like I think it's just like and I and I had a little bit of it early. Like I talked to a dude at a conference uh a month or month and a half ago and I presented it was a Christmas conference. I presented on like with Christmas light speed delete is everything. Like it's like probably the mo in any industry it's probably number one because you're seasonal. you got to squeeze it in. And the guy came up to me after and he was like, "Uh, dude, I was waiting 2 three hours to call leads because I didn't want to be them to perceive me as desperate."
It's crazy.
And so that's how like some people think, but then, you know, we have guys like you've built wagons saying like, "Dude, speed and follow-ups everything. It doesn't matter if you get an unsubscribe by 2% or 0.5%." Evan said yesterday, Coconut's SMS unsubscribe rate is point something%.
It's like basically non-existent on the platform. that is the highest unsubscribe rate which is SMS.
So going back to like knowing your business and the right SLP is you can be annoying if you leave it up to your salesman to find the right me like the if he comes up with his own text message of how to follow up three times that day. But if it's calculated and creative from you as the owner, like the first one's like, "Hey, I'm I'm I'm your guy. I'm real. I want to take care of you." Like it's nice. The second one, hey, I got this huge promotion. and I'm here till 3:00. The third one, hey, I I really want to get you taken care of here today. Like, what? Tell me what time works for you. Like, that's a good progression. And even the fourth one of just like another one. If he was just like, hey, it's Cameron with Green Mango. I want to get you on the route today. Second call. Hey, it's Cameron with Green Mango. I want to get you on. Like, that's annoying, right?
These people want your service. It's your job to find a convenient time for them to connect with you. And that's why like I appreciate if it's done in the right delivery method that someone calls me or texted me or finds a way. I love if someone tried to call me and then text me and said, "Dude, what time works for you today?" I know my calendar. I know that I'm going to have 15 minutes between 2 and 2:30. Like, dude, call me at 2:15. I'm your guy. I want I submitted for this. I want it. You're teasing my schedule now. Cool. I'll call you at 2:15.
Call, you know, like, but that's your job as the salesman to figure out like cuz think about it. I mean, we don't have to go. We can if we want to go this, but this is good. Keep going.
Like, put yourself in the mindset of the consumer. Like all the things that had to happen for them to submit that lead, right? They heard you on the radio. They got the Google ad. They got whatever. And they're like, "Fine, I'm going to call them for Christmas lights, right?" Then they have to search you on, you know, your they have to remember the website. They have to search you, right? They have to hopefully find it. And then they hopefully your form's easy to find, but it's like they scroll through your website, like put in their information. They don't have a fillable text like Amazon because you don't have their information, right?
M. like Cameron bought in for it, you know, it starts putting out the number submit and then like that that's an effort to get there and then what happens? They put their phone down, they start driving to work or they take the call from their kid or they you know like a million things happen and it's like dang I really want those Christmas lights but it's like I don't know when I have time. You're a mom, you're busy, you're running, you're doing this, you're doing that and so like your job is to somehow coordinate with that customer and make it easy. That's why we started online booking too because for a while it's like we want the touch point. We want the credit card. We want like all the old school ways of doing it. And I and I just I we're I'm still preaching to my team like we need to figure out how to fully automate the process so it's as easy as ordering on Amazon that book an appointment with us. And so like we're really close right now.
Yeah. Like the frictionless buying experience. It's like the thing Yo, go ahead.
No, no, go ahead.
Yeah. Yeah, the thing that radicalized me on that was like somewhere in the 2020s, maybe 2019 and 2020, Home Depot's like sales system got so intricate and unique that like, you know, you go into Home Depot and you're like, you can tell that they probably invested, if I had to guess, high eight, low nine figures into this system to overhaul their entire business. And it's an entire business based on make it's an entire system based on making a frictionless buying experience for the customer. And so, for example, if you go to Home Depot and you put a towel rack in your cart, whether you do it in person or you do it online, you put a towel rack in your cart and it's a stainless steel towel rack, they are then going to have on the screen, here's the matching soap dispenser, here's the matching this, here's the matching that. Or if you purchase just one, you'll get an email nurture from Home Depot after that's like, hey, congrats on buying the stainless steel tower rack. Here's the 18 different things that match that set. And then on top of that, when they save your email on everything, it's like they made it so easy for me to do returns. Like everything, you don't even have to have receipts. You just like bring the product in, they have it on your because you all tied your email, all this other stuff. And it was like if the companies that are already worth billions and billions and billions of dollars are investing into a frictionless buying experience where it's instant book, it's this, it's curbside, whatever. How like why do we think that in home services it's going to somehow be different and people don't want to buy that way?
Yeah. And then the other side is if you sell a high ticket home service, so a couple thousand average ticket to more, your best customers are going to be convenience buyers.
Yeah.
The people who have all the time in the day to get nine quotes are going to be a nightmare, right?
And so it's like the thing that like even your I'm going to steal the talk track you said was like not just like, hey, you know, follow up available, but like hey, what time specifically today works for you to chat? Like that's a really interesting one, too. Did you guys ever do any of like the text nurtures where you would uh where like let's say the lead was somewhere in the in the pipe and you say like, "Hey, we're going to have a tech in your area on Tuesday the 11th at, you know, 12:30."
Maybe. I don't know if it was it wasn't on my radar. I could see how that could be effective.
So, we had uh I have a mobile dog groomer come and like mobile dog groom the dogs you just met, PD and Stella. And I did them once and they were like, you know, they try to get me on the on the the quarterly, the monthly, like, you know, like everybody does. And I just don't get them groomed that much.
And then like three, four months later, anytime I get marketed to and it converts me, I like as a consumer, I go like, why did that work on me? Yeah.
You know, and one thing they did was they personalized a text probably 3, four months after I had dealt with them. Hadn't heard from them. Maybe some email nurturers. They personalized a text and said, "Hey, Steve, PD and Stella haven't gotten, you know, cleaned in a while. We have a technician or we have a whatever they call. We have a technician, Clarissa. She's actually going to be right by you on Thursday, May 11th between 12 and 2.
Do you want to grab a spot?
Yeah.
And it was like it didn't feel salesy cuz it felt almost like it was reciprocated levels of value between the company and the consumer cuz they're like, "We're so busy, but we got a slot. Do you want to take it?"
Yeah.
And the irony is it's completely automated. That time slot didn't exist. They just wanted me to convert, which is so funny because like then when I.
I thought they were gonna give you like an eight hour window. We'll make it work.
Yeah. No, no, no. They So I said like, "Yeah, I'll take that spot." I responded in two minutes and then they responded like, "Oh, actually like that spot, but we actually have a three to four that day." And so it was like it was completely automated. But the point was,
Yeah.
they were so like that leveled the playing field in terms of nurture where like it just felt like, okay, busy company, they know where I live, it was personalized, whatever else, which was fascinating. It's still,
but it was like it was something where it was like just incredibly convenience-based where it worked on me. And then everybody I was talking to in Home Service Accelerator was like, "You guys should do this. Any any window cleaner, any whatever you should just do, you know, whatever." And then tie like an offer to the end like we're already going to be in the area. We'll give you, you know, 10% off, whatever else.
Yeah.
Something like that. And uh people were like, "Oh, but what if the person takes the slot?" And I'm like, "It doesn't matter. Just get the conversation going."
Yeah. Has that was that kind of your guys mindset with the with the outreach, too? It's like it's not about being perfect. It's about not being annoying and just get something back from them.
Yeah. I mean, you're just trying to engage that conversation and like start it.
Yeah. Interesting. Okay, cool. All right, we're I'm going to change gears and then we're going we're going to wrap it up because I think we're getting close to an hour here. All right, so let's let's do an exercise. And this is multiple people asked me to do this. So, uh let's do an exercise. Everything is taken away from you right now. But your brain.
But my what?
But your brain.
So you have all the knowledge you have right now, but you have, let's say you have $10,000 in the bank account and you have you have a one vehicle.
Like no relationships.
No. No. No. No relationships. No relationships. So let's even plop you like in a different state and you don't and you don't have your phone. So you have 10 grand. You have the brain you have now.
And you have a vehicle.
What home service do you start? [Music] I mean, you can start a pest control company for 10 grand. I'd probably do that because I know it the best. But like there's a lot of like, you know, trash can cleaning becoming popular and I think there's something around that. Um, uh, like yeah, I mean those those would probably be like the two like tra I don't know why trash is on my mind, but like I think there's something special about like the the ease of it and the low overhead and then like the value ad that could happen with like the actual cleaning of trash cans. But um, I mean, it's just something uh and then like Yeah. So I'd answer that pest control.
Okay. So you do pest control and trash can cleaning. So you you love the recurring revenue businesses. You have zero interest in getting into HVAC. You have zero interest in getting into anything like higher ticket like that. Obviously from an equity standpoint, I'm sure. Yeah.
But like you as an operator, zero interest in that. You just know pest so well.
Yeah. I mean, yeah, I know pest so well. But yeah, reoccurring revenue is brings you so much peace of mind as you're growing your business and selling it. Um, but just as you're hiring too, as you're growing it, knowing that, hey, like we sold a thou a a million dollars last year, like you have a million dollars coming in, we can hire the extra CSR router without like stressing every single month that we have to go and produce $500,000 of new sales.
Mhm. Okay. Gotcha. And then the other follow-up question is you have the same exact scenario, but you have $25,000 in a working vehicle in a market, but you can't door knock. Where do you allocate the money in marketing?
Um, I love influencer marketing, but it's not even like the 50 to 100,000 20,000 peing pe like moms that have two 5,000 followers like they have a huge influence in that demographic. And so I'd get together whatever business it was. I would find like a common area of like expertise. And so like we're doing it right now with Coconut. My buddy owns the PCON Lakes. And we're going to throw in an event there. And I went to I said, "Hey, what's your And this is what I would do is like, hey, what's your acquisition cost? What is, you know, is it 150 bucks? Is it 100? Whatever it is, let me promote that to my customers or to my people and get them here as a value ad from my company." and you'll create them as a customer and then we'll have an event and then we'll give out promotions, get get information and then start dripping them that way.
Interesting. Okay.
And then have my little influencers, you know, in the background do doing their thing. And but like be intentional with the influencers. Hey, like this is what we're running this month or this quarter. This is the pro promos that I want you to have. This is the talking points I want you to speak on. All the little things.
Interesting. That's wild. Influencer marketing with the budget. That's so you you wouldn't throw money in Facebook ads, you wouldn't throw money in Google ads. You.
Just I'm just not like an expert in that. Like believe it or not, we only started running Google ads like the last two years of Green Mango.
And for the listeners paying attention because this is something that comes up with like recurring revenue businesses versus high ticket ones.
Did you just calculate it off of like the LTV of the of the customer that came in when you were writing?
Like why I didn't do Google ads?
Yeah.
I wish I did. I just we were having so much success in other areas that I just like and I was I wasn't good like we I didn't have the right guy. I wasn't good at it and so we just Yeah, we just didn't do it.
Interesting. Okay, that's wild. And do you remember what like the figures were around paper click at that time?
No.
Like you were were you penciling at like 3 4x or anything like that or at that point were you so ready to exit you were just like as many people as possible get them in the door cuz we know that our prize value if we do. I actually didn't know I like it wasn't intention. I was going to run Green Mango for another three or four years, but the offer came and so I I had a business partner in Green Mango that we started with and I bought him out like almost two years prior to this offer. And so the goal is to run it 5 years after I bought him out and like I started getting intentional with all the things that we've been talking about today. and I boosted the IBIDA margins another 10% and and then private equity came and at this point I was talking to all these guys for two years prior and so like the name was kind of out there like like we had entertained an offer and uh when this when Pesco came like I just gave them my terms of what I wanted and they said yes and so I was like okay so if I knew that I was going to sell I would have done things a lot different like leading up to the sale and I probably could have made another 5 to 10 million bucks but I just like I was running it as if I was running it.
Yeah. Cuz for the longest time you just thought it was you were going to hand it off like generationally, right?
Yeah. At the beginning, but in during COVID when I started hearing like, "Oh man, these companies are going for like 18, 19, 20 times like uh yeah, everything's for sale."
Yeah. No, it makes sense. Okay, cool. So, where can they find you? It's Cam Bowen Boden on Instagram.
Yeah, Cabbin on Instagram.
Seb on Instagram. They can go on podcasts and find the premium mindset podcast and then I will link the 1% club uh landing page in here. Is there anything else you want to share plug before we go?
That's it, man. I appreciate you having me on.
All right, dude. Thanks for coming on. It's gonna be super helpful for everybody.