Transcription
Uh-huh, say no more. All right, today we're going to do the interview. I don't think you guys are gonna struggle to resonate your copy with the right people. I think you're gonna be able to land big clients quickly.
I actually reached out to somebody else who does copy this morning. I put up something for beauty emails and submitted my emails, saying that I would copy chief for you. I haven't heard back, but I'm putting some feelers out so that I can help you guys with the interview.
But in order to—once you put out the perfect ad today—you get a fifteen thousand, twenty thousand dollar client. Are you ready to produce? Are you ready to ask the right questions? So that's what we're gonna do today. We're gonna give you the tools and skills to have the substance to ask the right questions.
How we're gonna do that is by interviewing each other. Then, what I'm gonna have you guys do is write each other's ads, taking the best bits of each other's stories, and being the copywriter that can pimp out anything, including each other.
In the interview process, this company Beachbody—are you familiar with Beachbody? They have P90X, Insanity, Shakeology, make a ton of money off of their direct sales. However, they made more money off of their Beachbody Coaches MLM network marketing.
I had to interview Beachbody Coaches. Oh, I can't—you talk on that video—you can hear anything. So when you interview, what's up? You can hear it? Oh, your video is like muted. So, what I’m talking about in interviewing is how you show up for people.
You're not just saying, “Tell me all about this,” because most people don't know what to say. They don't know what information to give you. They're gonna give you stats and data, and that's really the best you're gonna get out of people. If you ever have people fill out a form, it's oftentimes more confusing—the information they give you—than not.
So it’s up to you to create clarity and transparency, to find the hook, to find the mechanism, to find the positioning, to find the messaging that is going to really impact the people who hire you and want help.
When I sit down and interview somebody, the very first thing that I'm gonna do is frame the conversation. I need to get them into the mindset of vulnerability, right? So when I know—you can't hear it, so I'm just gonna—when I'm interviewing people, I want to get behind the facade. I want to circumvent the story that they're used to telling people because everybody's got superficial answers, and you want to— that's like the superficial stuff, the topical stuff.
So how do you get to the deeper questions? Yeah, what makes you passionate about copy? I like to help people. Why? It makes me feel good, and it makes me money.
Tell me a little bit about yourself. How did you discover copywriting? What resonated with you?
It was kind of the academic side of it, first of all. I led into copywriting from other things that I was doing, and then it was—see, it was the challenge. It was how it all fitted together, like a big jigsaw, and I wanted to understand that jigsaw.
And so what did you discover? I discovered that I was better at it than I thought, which gave me a huge buzz. Then I realized that I could—
Exact words? You were better at it than you thought? Does that mean—it’s like when you read a really great novel, and you think, “I'll never write one that good.” And then, you know, you read a really great advert, and you think, “I'll never write one that good.” But then you suddenly do because you write words, and people buy stuff, and that's like a whole new buzz.
Absolutely! What is the most money you've made from a project? A thousand dollars so far. Then what's the most money you've made for somebody? Ten thousand dollars.
Now, if I paid you twenty thousand dollars today to write me a full funnel, how would you approach it?
I'd switch this around and start asking you a lot of questions about that funnel. I'd want to know—so I'm selling—I'm creating a binaural beat program that's also going to teach people how to remote view.
Remote—what’s remote viewing? Remote viewing is a lot of people do it in a meditative state. Where—did you ever see the movie "The Men Who Stare at Goats"?
Yes. No, I read the book.
Okay, "The Men Who Stare at Goats." A lot of that story is about remote viewing. So they would put something away behind lock and key, and three people would tell them what’s inside the box.
In the movie, the George Clooney character could see what was inside the box. You can describe it; he could remote view. He could put himself in the box. That's the only time you're gonna hear me say that, by the way—well, other than women.
So how did he do that? Well, everything is connected. And this is not me being woo-woo or spiritual. We are all connected by a zero-point field. We're in it, we're created by it, we affect it, we're being affected by it all the time—instantaneous, simultaneously, without beginning, without end.
Now, you can put yourself at any point in the field—anywhere in the field, and not just on Earth.
And anybody hear my cat? She's in.
So do you put yourself in the field, or do you have an expert let themselves in the field?
You know, ask me—ask me this question. What makes me a good copywriter?
What makes you a good copywriter?
Map, because I remote view myself into the people who are buying.
Ching!
Okay, now you achieve that—when I was seven or eight, I astro-traveled. In other words, I went so far into my mind somewhere else. I was there. I used my imagination—the movie theater of my imagination—to put myself somewhere in a place, a space, a time, and I was there.
I didn’t question whether or not it was possible; it's just something I started naturally doing. I was riding my bike one day—I was 8 years old—turning left onto the street where I lived, and I was gone. I hit a truck, I flew over the top, I landed in the back, I broke a bunch of things. I was gone; I was not there; I was somewhere else.
And when I first got cancer—brain cancer—I would remote view myself into the healthy body, the healthy version of myself.
Now, I didn’t have chemotherapy; I didn’t have radiation. I barely did anything. It’s juicing. You know, my mom juiced for me, and I took some supplements. That's about it, on the physical level. That's about it. The rest was all me.
I exist here today because of that—because I knew how to put myself into a healthy body. And when I—so this is empathy on steroids. This is being so connected with people's energy that you are a vampire, where you can feel their heartbeat, you can feel the blood coursing through their veins, you can feel the thoughts, the stories that are being narratively spoken in their head.
It also gives you control of the conversation in the interview as well when you come in from that tack because it's like—why do you—I always—mm-hmm—people on video. It makes it as easy as possible.
I talked with somebody this morning who is an affiliate for the "Doll Badass." He's friends with the owners, and he’s only making, you know, like 5, 10 grand a month.
And he took me through the funnel, and I’m like, you know, this looks like a scam from—2005. I was like, it’s ugly, it’s that.
And you know what's amazing? Once he gets someone to the sales page, it actually converts at about 1.5%—that old, shitty sales letter they have.
But he needs better tools, leads, to get him there.
I was like, I don’t even want your money, dude. I already know what to do, and I’ll give you—so I gave him some quiz questions, a quick write-up, and then I was like, you know what’s another way to get people into the conversation? Give them something—lead magnet.
So I wrote this for free in about 10 minutes, and I mean, I’ve made—I started making my living in the business writing. So that should copy; pick up copy.
So, it's back of hand for me.
It’s not hard at all; it’s not hard at all to put myself—both being the former womanizer and knowing how womanizers think, talk, and act in pursuit or want to—can't, because they’re chicken [__] because they don’t realize that at the end of the day it's talking to people.
Most seduction products that are any good are basically self-help products for men to become less of a douche. I didn’t talk to women like people.
I was like, “I’m always huge. I’m by neural tones.”
Are you intimidated to approach hot women? They eat signs, and things you constantly fantasize about—you constantly wonder what it would be like to have sex with certain women you feel are way out of your league.
Are you jealous of the douche guys who do approach hot women and consistently get them in bed?
I was shocked to discover how simply wearing my regular old [__] has dramatically changed my life.
I was always stuck in my own head and insecurities—hot women terrified me, so I couldn’t let myself ever make a move on a woman I thought was totally out of my league.
What I didn’t know was, it was all a story I was telling, and that story stopped me dead in my tracks. Remember approaching theta? My neural tones—these tones actually talk to your brain directly.
We’re all stories and insecurities about approaching women, our stock and your conditioning—the stuff you grew up with, accepting this truth, and you never knew why those were your beliefs.
So what happens when some simple sounds play in your ears can quickly erase the story you’re telling about how you never approached her? She’d never be interested in you.
The thing is, it’s not true, and the only reason it feels so true is because of the specific story you’re telling about it—the lie tragically stuck in your vein of brain waves, again, where your conditioning and stories are stored.
These tones speak to both sides of your brain in a slightly different way. This mechanism—this literally forces the fan to think fibers that connect both sides of your brain afire, find the equilibrium between the slightly different tones playing in your ears, mechanism.
Plus, I added some guided meditation over the theta tone, so we can replace old insecurities story with your old with a positive supportive message that empowers you to easily connect with any woman.
I’m gonna give you this incredible tool; now you become the selection artist you’ve always wanted to be.
One percent free—just enter your best email and get it right to you. And now I will never share your information with anyone, ever.
I said I want to help you break through your old stories so you could find, like, you could get the tail you want, and who knows—you might even find the woman of your dreams and develop something authentic and real.
Bottom line, when you want to connect with women, no matter what they look like, the world becomes your neck.
So, you know, it’s just like imagine the design—you know, a guy sitting there and women coming towards him, you know.
And by the way, when I did this this morning, because I’m working with another client on developing a product and seduction campaign, which you guys are going to be involved with, and I’m gonna be the face and voice using my old story and using this approach and then doing some talking-head, slide-style presentations to help guys get over themselves, understand what seduction really is, a connection, empathy.
This is remote viewing. This is just putting myself back into my old shoes.
And it may not even be the right copy yet, but I wrote it in ten minutes, and I can write a hundred more.
It's unlimited, and it’s all about connecting, putting yourself in the shoes—literally remote viewing yourself into that person, into that man—however it is you want to empathize, right?
Simple mechanism to make it possible, and it’s free. It will probably do really well or get to an over 50% opt-in quickly.
And this is just from talking to a guy this morning for 20 minutes, asking him the right questions, understanding what he needs. It’s like—you give this to you? Are you gonna produce it? You’re gonna go to five? Are you gonna make it?
Yeah, awesome! I'm gonna give this to you because I don’t want you to go to another copywriter and get charged thousands of dollars when this is really simple.
Hang on a minute; let me give you the quiz. Let me give you this lead magnet. Let me show you how to put together an advertorial, and you have three different tests—get it designed yourself, and then take it to the sales letter.
If you can double your lead gen and you hold the rest of the funnels, then you’re over three percent on the front end, easily, by doing virtually nothing.
And I didn’t take his money because this was too easy for me. And again, you know, like I told him, I said, I really don’t want you to invest in me unless you have your own product, so make your money and reinvest.
And he’s like, “Done deal.” Maybe I’ll never hear from him again—I usually don’t.
Let’s get back to the interview! Oscar, take over. Sorry, asking me, and I want you to get into a story because you need to get the details that you’re gonna write your copy with—that is on you.
And if you don’t get them, it’s on you, and it costs him money, and then vice versa.
So when do you start writing copy?
Yeah, when do you go full-time, let’s say, into getting clients and the Lorraine? Whatever.
It was the day that I stood up in my old office job, and I just threw the folder across the room, and I just said, “Is this it?”
And I walked out, and the office was pretty much in disbelief that financial advice would do that, but I had enough. I just—I just ripped my tie off.
Oh, mine’s—why did you want to lose? Oh, there? Oh, because I was just cooped up in that office, and I was really discovering the internet and Facebook for the first time.
And look at all these people traveling, and I thought, that's what I've got to do with my life. I've got to travel.
So I bought myself a backpack, Oscar, and I jumped on the first plane. I went to Barcelona. First of all, didn’t know where I was going, what I was gonna look at, who I was gonna talk to, or anything.
Anyway, long story short, once I got into that traveling lifestyle—the buzzword now is digital nomad—I don’t hang out in Chiang Mai too much, though, because they’re mainly eighteen or twenty-one there.
Once I went into that lifestyle, Oscar, I couldn't give it up. I absolutely couldn't give it up.
And that lifestyle brings you together with people and cultures and religions and points of view that if you just sat in your office in England, you would never meet. You would never meet these people, and you would never see the world in different ways.
And it was around this time that the internet was starting to become more available to, you know, let’s say, the average man who doesn’t have computer programming skills.
This was back when every time you looked on the internet, you just had a banner ad that was making a million bucks by the time you wake up in the morning.
And that's when I started getting into, you know, marketing and copywriting and web development, and the whole host of other skills—finding out which of those was my passion.
Because I sort of—how do you land on copywriting? Because that's like a certain nature of marketing itself. You know, because I’ve been there—to where marketing days, and inter-marketing and web life—it was a step-by-step process that actually landed me to conquer in.
How was that for you?
Yes, what it was, right, I looked at sort of all the different jobs and everything that you could do within marketing and within the internet, and I tried a little bit of each of them because I needed to find the one that I was passionate about.
Because I have to walk in out of that office in the UK, I said to myself, “You’re never gonna do anything again unless you truly are passionate about it, about helping people and about the work that you do—that you want to get out of bed in the morning.”
Then naturally, you know, so I do a lot of Aikido, but then SEO—you need a website, and on the website, so you need to build that.
And then you need to have words that convert, and that’s how I got to the stage of copywriting. Then once I got to—the copy, I am in the marketing. Born, that's when I had my full attention.
And I think you asked me about landing that. I’ve always found that beam within different communities on Facebook that I gravitated towards a lot of clients—that's how I started—right? People who had similar interests to me in a sort of world travel to travel gear and bits like that.
Because whilst I was doing that, I was also looking for niches that I enjoy working in, that I can connect with, because the connection is everything.
I can't talk about something absolutely obscure that I’ve never read about, but I could—if I researched it—but you get where I’m going.
But how is copywriting like your passion? Because writing words is a lot of research, a lot of time, maybe a computer, or a lot of writing and erasing. It's a tedious job, you know?
It's like, it takes a long time, running out. So how is that passionate for you? How do you explain it?
Well, it could be for some people, you know? It could be—yes.
Okay, let me think. I’ll order my name—about 21 years ago I joined the Royal Navy, the submarine service, and I was in the communications branch.
And premier on the submarine, going longer, harder, deeper than other naval men, my job as a communicator. So a lot of the things that you just described—the kind of the research, the bookwork, the time on the computer—that was a job that the Royal Navy trained me to do.
That's where I learned to touch-type 50 or 60 words a minute until I stopped. So all those skills were just ground into me by the military, so those skills I’ve just got intact.
So a lot of the stuff like research— you know the other day, I was looking at the food rations from every man’s space flight from 1955 until current day.
And once you start researching that stuff, that’s not gory; that’s interesting.
So the stuff that you find out as a copywriter that you might never use, but then one day you might be doing a project like, “Ah, you know what? I know a lot about the rehydrated food on the Apollo, blah blah blah blah blah.” And I'm gonna use that in—
Why? Please, what kind of copy do you like to write, and why?
I like to write men's relationship copy, and the reason that I like to write that is because if you look at the guys that are right at the top of that field—people like Ed and Pua, you use J-Jane, was David DeAngelo—there’s this huge 15-20-hour courses out there—there's names that forgets me, but you watch those courses, and he’s helping people become better human beings.
When he really gets into this, it might have to use words like “chasing girls” and stuff like this, but it's really a bank helping people become better versions of themselves—or specifically helping men become better versions of itself.
Sure, there is the sleazy side to it, the pervert side to it, but there's also a huge chunk of men in the men's relationships that lack confidence, and they lack just—just talking to women.
And you know, I mean, I know obviously I’m one of the top ten best-looking men in the world, but I mean, you might not believe it, but I use the lack of confidence myself when I was a younger man with women.
So I can really tap into that. It's a really—gorgeous woman—I’d love to go and just be able to walk over and just say something normal and talk to her.
So when I'm writing that kind of copy, that’s really the stuff that's coming out of me. That’s really the mindset that's coming out of me, so I can make the connection with people and then everything that I’ve learned to this point and the different people that I work with, and masters like Evan Pagan, I can then help people connect with information.
But if they read it, they’ve gotta ring it will improve their life.
Do you see what I’m doing?
Yep. I mean, that right there is some kickass [__] that you can make in the copy.
Right? Do you see what it's like?
This [__]? Yeah!
What are you thinking?
Yes, it’s color, isn’t it?
It’s these walls, it’s the process to these interviews. It is about having the confidence just to be [__] original and just, just be yourself, isn’t it?
Doing—I mean, I am a fair, I am feral, I’m organized, I’m clear, but I’m feral.
In other words, I don’t follow any of the protocol of business. I create my own protocol.
I lead the way I want to lead.
And it works—damn right it works, because I mean, if you look at, say, Tuna Bend, Settle, or Mac Fury, the people absolutely love following—why do they love following those two? Because they just do their own [__].
And it's like anybody really that's super popular just does their own [__]. They’re a rib; they're just their own person. It’s not something—they’re not like special.
I know that’s a very wide term, you know?
So the more that we—and the thing is, I think we forget how [__] cool some of the stuff we do ourselves is.
It’s like if you really started getting into me about what life is like on a submarine, and I will tell you—look, absolute truth, it’s [__] boring.
Six hours work, six hours sleep, you’re army—no. But to another person, you know, you say, “Yeah, you know, as a submarine, I was cleared above top-secret—atomic top-secret,” which is about how you can go genomically now.
Jesus, you know? And that’s really exciting for other people, but we can forget how exciting our run cheese is.
And most people don’t have a clue how exciting their [__] is.
I just learned more about you than I have in all the times we’ve talked. Oscar, keep going! It’s not done yet!
So what kind of training did you have to be—hold on—what is your objective? What are you trying to get? What is your strategic mind narrating right now that you need from him to create authority in the market, so people can see who he is? Who is he studying? Who is he trained with?
Or—forgot it.
So once you landed into copywriting and you decided this was going to be your way to help people make money, what was your training?
Well, the bulk of my training is my life.
And what I mean by that is, it’s the life experience that I’ve had. I’m a 41-year-old guy. I’ve traveled to, I've lost Hank, maybe 60 countries around the world. Just lost my career completely, then of course it’s courses, right?
So I can't remember it was—I used to read copywriting books to start with.
I read some copyright books, and I read copywriting books by one of these past old masters, and there was a line in there that said, “The greatest copywriters are the people with the most life experience.”
And as soon as I read that, I thought to myself, “Right, I’m not reading these copywriting books anymore.” I mean, most of them were just boring, prosaic, and they were aimed at what I call the dream market—people that want to go to parties and just say, “Hey, I'm a copywriter.”
So what I did was I started looking for people. I started looking for mentors.
So I went out there, and I found the people I wanted to work with, and then the next class, I asked myself, “What can I do for them?”
Because you can't just knock on somebody’s door randomly. Forget the digital world. You know, go around somebody’s house that you don’t know, knocking on their door, and going, “Oh, teach me everything that you know for free, and I’m not gonna do anything.”
So that got me into a value mindset, which was the biggest breakthrough in copy I ever had.
Say it again. What is the biggest breakthrough?
A value or an abundance-based mindset. That was the biggest breakthrough in copy.
The moment that I stopped thinking about cash and I started to realize the more people I saw, the more people that I helped, then the cash will just come.
And when I made that switch, Oscar, that’s when my copywriting career just went—whoosh!
Because all the other tactics—all the tactics that are out there—NLP, copyright, flip-flop copyright, or whatever—they're just tactics.
So it was strategy that I was going after, and talking with people that were much, much more than me.
I wanted to know what the strategy was, what the foundations were. So that’s what I focused on with marketing and copy because the two go hand-in-hand.
You know, you can have three things that you learn and you apply in your copy—the top three things I learned and applied.
You can only channel desire; you can't sell to people who don’t want to buy.
So that means to channel desire, you’ve gotta be able to do market research.
And the third biggest learned was that—and this is kicked around a lot—but it’s a hard skill to master, right?
Words like you speak, which is really easy to say. Everybody says it, but it’s hard to get to.
And in a world where you just go to a copywriting board and you have a hundred copywriters saying the same thing and showing you, yeah, telling you that they're gonna make you money through their words and they're using templates and structures—what?
How are you standing out from that noise? Is there a way that you can stand out to the client that they would be like, “Oh, I need this guy. I don't need all these hundreds of people; I need him.”
Yeah, the way that I do that is by the last word I just said. By being here.
Now, when I was 17—which is quite a while ago now—I left the UK and I moved to Tenerife in the Canary Islands.
And there were two—two really big things happening in Tenerife at the time. One was the Miss Justice mile-long strip of bars called Veronica’s, and the other one was timeshare sales.
Now, in both of those worlds, you had people that had leaflets, and they had to get the attention of people, and there were thousands and thousands of other people doing it.
Now I didn’t realize this at the time. You know, I didn’t have my marketing brain on at the time, but the people that were making money in both of those arenas were the people that were peacocking.
They call it in the men’s relationship world, you know?
Baby, I love that term—I only discovered it recently—they stood out because they offered something different, something random, something that wasn’t even to do with the thing that they were selling.
I remember this one guy, because obviously he taught in the Canary Islands. He had this hat that doubled up as a large umbrella.
Look, he looked a complete idiot, but he stood out.
And even though I didn’t realize that at the time, I learned probably the most valuable lesson possible in answer to your question and answer to those busy boards.
You know, and now I can—now I can—sorry, so people are bored of hearing the claims.
We would have wanted bigger promises, bigger claims. They want to hear a cool idea. That’s what they want to hear, you know?
And why is that what they want to hear? Because they're just bombarded 24/7 with information that’s generally just—is that really the best way to say it?
Now, probably not; I could be shooting my own job in the [__] line.
I think a little bit, yeah?
Okay, moving on—makes a little bit—what?
The reason you love this is because it gives you the ability to connect with people, the ability to solve problems.
You’re a natural problem solver; that’s how your mind works. I’m listening to you; you're constantly figuring out how to solve problems, which compels you to ask the deeper questions.
Yes, yeah, absolutely. The obstacle is the way.
And there’s a lot of people out there that get to the obstacle and freeze.
Brilliance right there! The obstacle is the way. I stole that from Ryan Holiday—best way into a conversation.
So now make it your own.
Mm-hmm.
Find out what their obstacle is, what they’re bumping up against, and clearly communicate it just like you talk, using words they use to describe their problems.
Is that what you mean?
Yeah, for men who would absolutely love to discover ways to connect with women, especially women, I’m doing—taking the information from this interview, and I'm starting to get clear on who you are, what your voice is, how you want to affect people, how you want to affect the people they want to help, right?
Yeah.
All right! Oh my God!
Oh my—nice! Something Carlos again. I still don’t—okay, my turn?
No, we’re not done! What did he get?
Oh! What I was gonna ask—and I don’t even have the answer myself—but I’ll ask you. If I have Mark Fischetti, Oscar, and Ian right in front of me, why would I hire you to work on my copy and you tie him up beside me?
But he might give me a phone call to let it—are you right out there?
Small adjustments when you know how to write copy and small adjustments in figuring out just how do you use that copy, how to build it so that it fits together in ways that makes sense to people.
Like, for instance, one of my clients—the guy who did the fat loss miracle—he came at me this morning, and I’m gonna do a bunch of openings that are gonna be [__] badass that are gonna quench his issues.
But he’s like, “I want it to have more claims. I want it to make more claims.”
And I said, “Dude, you gave me copy that was 100% [__]—totally non-compliant—making claims that were absurdly untrue using a story that wasn’t real.”
What you got is a story now that makes sense and can be built on and tweaked and optimized in a thousand different ways. Shut the [__] up!
I mean, I didn’t say that, but that was the tone that I was conveying because it was like, “No, you do not get to say what you want to say. You get to say what’s real!”
Now, if you want to make a different product, we can add a different copy.
What do you want to do? That’s also your job—to protect the people who buy things from people that are just trying to get money out of them.
What else do you need from me? And Oscar, don’t you feel you have from him?
Because I feel you haven’t connected with something. What is that? What aren’t you getting?
To USB—his USB, like, he’s a way to differentiate himself. So how are you gonna get that?
What I just asked it, but if he doesn’t necessarily know here, you have all this information. So neither—how are you gonna put this together to ask the questions that are gonna get it out of them?
Because if he knew, he’d already done.
Oh, you have to show up for him—look at all the stuff that I've written down here.
Are you telling me you can’t get a USB?
I mean, yeah, I see that we are focusing on pretty much seduction niche this lecture market.
All I'm doing is listening to what he said and writing it all down, so that, in a way, is a USB by drilling it down to a specific market.
Yeah, it is!
Okay, got you!
You have so much information here, I can write a [__] badass.
But you're gonna do it, and it’s gonna be better.
What about what you were talking about the—you got paid a thousand dollars; you made someone a ten thousand.
Like, how do you do that?
Those fingers were just—just made up on the spot, so many—you asked in sort of about, like, what my pay rate would be like that.
I mean, if I was gonna—are you mad?
And I was trying to show off your past results.
You know, like, I was working with this guy, and I 10x his money because he paid me well.
Now, I wouldn’t say he paid me. That’s a mate in that, but you know, I multiplied his investment by doing this, this, this.
Yeah, I tend to identify and stay away from sort of making any sort of financial claims.
I know specificity is good, but guys, I don’t use any of that into my copy ever because if you run that on cold traffic, you’re gonna get shut down.
People do get away with it [__].
I just had his name up a second ago. You know, one of the bigger guys—but there's a few of them, and they make absurd claims, “I made this much.”
I had—I remember I used to—when I first started in this business, I was really good at writing for the Republican Christian sect—and I’m neither of those things—but I love writing for that. It’s like acting; I love it.
And you know, I started selling underground luxury bunkers—millions each.
I made them over fifty million, and I used that, and it didn’t do anything for me.
And they got a lot of traffic, and it was written really well, and then the next week, I put up an ad. This was on Google PPC, different landing pages I put up.
And I added breaking down—me writing copy—why I assertain a lie performed, and that thing, like, massively performed, and I didn’t give any numbers on it at all.
I think I might have said one conversion numbers. It does—like demonstration.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, so there’s different ways to do the same thing—that’s my point, and you always need to be aware of.
If you're gonna put it up on your Facebook uncle, a copy warrior forum, on anything like that, fine, try it; but if you're gonna blast on cold traffic, and you're gonna truly become passive, how you prospect?
Never work that—a YouTube video you said yesterday, I think, that starts off like, “I’ve been in the business for 13 years.”
And you only last that long if you’ve helped entrepreneurs become successful.
Now many are already performing—yeah.
So then people would kind of have to be like, “Okay, please tell me the digits that you—but that was something I was stuck on for ages.”
People are not going to ask that [__] and if they do ask that [__]?
Well, there’s lots of ways to answer it, isn’t it? You know, you could even say, “Hey—though, I mean, you wouldn’t want me to give you all results specifically to another person, especially, you know?”
I just had this guy do a website—did you guys see that I put it up this morning?
Yeah, I’ve been collecting the URLs to different landing pages—this is a test, and this is his idea; I put up the new video.
It’s the old video; it didn’t perform at all.
No, it’s a—what? A million dollars?
So yeah, he put this up for me.
And I’ve always made my own websites, and I’m testing this, and already getting a good response in less than a day is ridiculous.
And he visits for free, so I can get him business.
I’m gonna recommend the [__] out of them.
Yeah, so even if he did one that looks a lot like Organifi, and it’s badass, I mean, the guy’s got mad skills.
So you know, Michael Kim—I love him! That [__] to [__] her out last night hard!
I said I don’t care how good your work is; nobody gets to work behind lock and key. You’re not that good.
I’m not that good; nobody is. This is a team; it’s a collaboration.
So the owner talked with him, they actually had dinner, and I said I heard you talked with the owner? Great!
We’re not good. The fact that that even has happened—that we had to check up on you, man!
So how I want to spend my time?
So always work with people who show up. This guy just did it without even asking me.
I was like, “[__], yeah! You got my back!”
I got your back! I’m gonna make you money!
Now, what time is it?
All right, I do have a hard spot.
So, Ian, interview Oscar. Hey, looks good! So I’ve been learning in London to meet timing lately.
Oscar, so sorry, let me start again.
Hey, Oscar, so I’m interested in finding out a bit about you. Like, aside from your copyright stuff, I’ve been learning to speak Thai lately because it’s—oh! It’s my head fellow.
What sort of stuff are you into when you’re not copyright, dude?
I’m into 3 much, although I’m—we’re talking fight.
Yes, I used to train!
You did?
To boxing, and although I don’t have the time—
When are we going one-on-one, toe-to-toe?
When we throw hands?
Possibly—comprehend—is that right? Here and right now?
You are in the presence of the greatest incarnation of humanity fighters.
Something, brother!
Let me tell you something. You might think you have the skills; you might think you have the talent.
You don’t have the destiny!
What do you get into that?
Like, as a kid? Like street fighting?
And then maybe at ten years old, I left it, and my friend, as a grown-ass man, showed me UFC fighting techniques, and I loved it!
And I watch it; I practice it. I don’t practice right now, but I think I watch it religiously. That’s like my NFL; my football used to be soccer.
Soccer was my number one thing, but now it’s surpassed by MMA.
Do you—if you had all the time in the world, would you be going to all the UFC events, or would you be training so that you could fight in the UFC event?
I think I would fight myself.
I just like that exertion of energy and learning new skills.
Every time you roll, every time you polish, every time you train, you’re learning something new.
Even when you’re losing, even when you’re on the ground, even when you’re getting submitted—you’re always learning new things.
So I’m always like a sponge of knowledge, the skill.
Because it’s one thing as watching it or reading a book, but there’s nothing like actually doing.
Question—so I’ve had 157 fights on paper. More than that off paper. Excuse me—two mixed martial arts, and I had 55 boxing matches, 54 amateur, and one pro.
I was undefeated in boxing.
In my first pro match, I dislodged his brain, and he died. I was 20 years old.
Okay, the guy was 15-0, well, he didn’t die right away; he became a vegetable.
And was a vegetable for two years until he died with his mother, who never blamed me, who was in the crowd that night at the Indian Reservation in the North Bay of San Francisco.
And there were about, you know, 5,000 people there, and they were on their feet as both of us were in the third round where this happened.
Both of us were bloody, and it was a dirty fight; dirty.
He fought dirty, so I was like, “I’ll fight dirty.”
When I started writing copy, I brought—I couldn’t fight anymore; I couldn’t get into the ring anymore. I couldn’t hurt people.
So I was like, how could I take this, you know, I’ve always survived by being a fighter.
I’ve always thrived by being a fighter, so how can I take that fight, that drive, that warrior spirit and pour it into my copy?
Well, you’re seeing it in what I’m doing, even by working with you guys.
I use my warrior speed to stand up for people to buy things because I believe in the power of advertising and influencing positive momentum, of positive movements in this world—real help, real solutions.
I fight for that, and I see that in you!
How does that resonate?
Yeah, under percent.
And good—God!
Okay, so anyway, you guys see how my interview style is very aggressive, and I say things; I make it personal.
You have a keyboard!
It was interesting you saying that, you know, like even when saying that you’re on the floor and you’ve been bitten by somebody—like you were learning new skills.
So just so I understand—so it's a new path.
Why? Why is learning new skills important to you?
Like, really, why is learning new skills important to you?
Because you’re just bettering yourself.
Whether it's by learning new moves in Brazilian jiu-jitsu mat or reading books with copywriting, and actually applying new copy techniques, it’s like I’m getting better; I’m leveling up.
You know?
That’s pretty much the word—better.
I’m bettering myself.
So is it the chi interrupts?
I was just watching an episode of "Kitchen Nightmares"—well, a couple of them, all of them, I’m sorry—and I have learned more from Gordon Ramsay and writing copy than I have from any copywriting guru.
You know what he does?
He takes the restaurant owners into the ring, and he uses punching and fighting as a way to get out their energy and get their passion back.
He helps them become better people, better entrepreneurs, who change from “I need to make money” to “How can I provide the best experience, the best food for my customers?”
How can I show up for them and get out of my own way?
You got?
Yes!
And it sounds like you really enjoy the journey. Like, the journey itself, Oscar.
You’re very—you're very present with everything you’re doing.
Do you think that has any bearing on the way that you approach your coffee?
Yeah, I mean, I love—first of all, I love talking to people.
I love making new connections, and even bigger than that, I love putting my hand in their pocket through my words, through what I'm writing.
And if I can—if in order to do that, it means getting Mark as a mentor, going through copy training programs, and learning and absorbing new things so I can try them on myself and on people, then that’s—I love it!
I love the whole journey from beginning to end.
Yes! So when we talk about the fight, and you’re saying, like, you did a bit of karate, and then I think you moved on to a sort of a different discipline.
So could you write about a niche that you enjoy or don’t agree with?
You know, I’ve got a big fat stack of cash for you here, but I want you to write about dicks—floppy dings!
Why? Here I abide to make you take bigger [__].
If there's something I really don’t believe in—if it’s something—in fact, I started off in the internet marketing “make money online” niche, and as I was telling Mark before, I’m trying to move away from it because it’s a little—there’s a little aftertaste when working with that niche.
So it’s niche—make money online—make money now, kind of niche.
I hate it—make money tomorrow; you’re not a for hours, yeah?
That’s how I started; that’s how I got into everything, you know?
That's what opened my eyes to this world of internet marketing, the online world, and actually drove me into copywriting, and I wrote for this market, man.
There was something you said that was so cool; I just wanted to dig into it.
So you said about the aftertaste.
So tell me more about that aftertaste.
Was it just your aftertaste? Was it the way that you left people feeling?
Although all the effect you had on people's lives with the copy that you were writing, and it gave you the aftertaste?
Yeah, I talked to recently, to one of the product owners in that niche.
Nobody talked to about his audience.
How? You know, they just want more; they just want to buy.
They’re like addicts—like this—so we need to Vella by, and this is like—
I don't! It’s just not resonating with me. I’m trying to help people to better their lives so they can—whatever their goal is, make money or lose weight or whatever.
Whatever it is—it’s just not to take advantage of them.
You know, it's just nice; it’s not sitting well with me.
And so, yeah, I mean, so you’re protecting—you want to protect?
Well, you’re protecting your a fight—Iranian?
Yeah, I wanna help and empathize because when you’re advertising with the clients, you feel that.
You feel their pain; you feel how they’re lost and how they want to get out of their hole.
And if I—if some people want to take advantage of that, it just—it’s not cool.
What’s the most random thing that you’ve empathized with that you found yourself on the brink of tears?
Forgive but an old episode of the A-Team where BA Baracus was shot or something like that.
Can you get into that kind of empathy mindset naturally, or do you have to sit down and be like, “Right, empathize”?
I mean, yeah, because especially in the internet marketing niche, having been a customer, I know how—they’re struggling with the next beta—again, how—in how am I gonna take care of my family?
There’s a bad—so it was easy to connect, but as I'm trying to grow another industry, it’s a little more work, but yeah, I always try to empathize.
All right, let’s say that we're working together, right?
And we come up with a campaign and absolutely crush it, and tomorrow morning you wake up, and there’s a million dollars in your bank.
And I tell you that I’m retired, and I don’t want to work with you anymore.
You’ve got a million bucks right, and you’re free.
What are you gonna do?
I don’t—there’s something about the marketing world that this is my passion, so I'm passionate about it.
I’m passionate about persuasion—not in the bad way of manipulating people to buy your product—but in a way that you get—channel it to sell something that helps people.
And through persuasion triggers and two structures, it’s like putting a puzzle together, you know?
It’s like solving problems; like—I love this!
But I want to know—I want to know!
All right, this is how I would answer the question that I just asked you.
Right? A bit of steering?
Yeah, yeah!
What I would do is I would travel around the world, watching sporting events. That's all I would [__] do.
I would just go from the Super Bowl to the baseball, to the football, to the cricket, to the rugby, to the Olympics—that's all I would [__] do!
If I had just, you know, that unlimited amount of money and I was free?
You know, at the moment, I just do little bits of that when I can, but that is what I would do.
You can—that’s why I wake up in the morning; that’s my dream life!
Yeah, I mean, so that's what I’m really trying to sort of get out of you.
You know, it's like—everything’s successful; you’ve got all this money—well, a staycation.
I just went to North Carolina for my Christmas vacation outside of the empire.
It’s been a while, yeah!
It's been a long time!
I think one of my stories is just that having worked shitty jobs my whole life, like I dropped out of college, and it’s shitty job after shitty job, after their shitty job, and that is what led me to online marketing, and that is, with Linux, being copyrighted—so I don’t have the—I never had the means to like splurge that much.
I’m getting it—so Europe?
And this is obvious—very global.
You’re a fighter, a protector, self-taught, self-motivated, driven individual who’s getting deeper than [__] most ever people will ever go in to say that what you were selling.
And Ian, start over there.
So a fighter, a protector, self-taught, motivated man who’s making smart moves to get deeper into an industry—well, they're a tough industry—a tough cutthroat industry where you're keeping your integrity.
Because it’s very easy to write [__] [__] people in there as well.
Okay, what’s the last movie you watched and enjoyed?
I saw actually "Bohemian Rhapsody."
Was it "Bohemian Rhapsody"? Queen?
I have to go. Why? To the end? This is amazing!
Really, that’s funny because I almost went to see it, and then I just waited for it to come on iTunes.
You have to watch it on the big screen, and it’s gonna come out again for the relaunch because it just won awards or whatever, so I’m going to see one more timing.
You should too, man!
No, I—Panther, which everybody [__] said was amazing.
My friend just said, “What the [__] is wrong with you?”
Oh, I haven't seen any of them, he’s gonna hit me with a chair!
You guys want to see this?
So do you guys get the interview process?
I’m gonna arrange for one of my next clients when I interview you to interview them for you guys to be involved. I want you to steer a campaign with me.
What is a copywriter leader?
Yes, yes! What a copywriter is a leader is somebody who shows up to create beautiful, dynamic, amazing advertising that inspires, reaches, connects with people in ways that nobody else and nothing can, right?
So I want you guys to—when you show up for your clients, to be that leader, to frame the conversation.
What else do you need to know him? Do you see the little bits I’m writing down here?
Yeah, I have been playing with just ideas for both of you just as I’m listening.
You guys might come up with—don't use this or do you come up with what you think is going to be the most effective to sell each other and your intestine [__]?
Right? A video script to go with it that doesn’t have to be spoken verbatim, but you know the flow.
Okay, what about [Music] mechanism, Oscar?
So, strategic, education-based marketing through storytelling.
Talent! I have a mechanism! You’re a didactic, Oscar, which means you are—that you have the ability to sell, teach yourself anything for anybody—to take something incredibly complicated and distill it down into its most simplistic conversation so that it can emotionally connect with people.
I think that your mechanism—and I want you to own that mechanism, okay?
Say it again for me.
Say it again!
I can’t take anybody's information and distill it into viable chunks that anyone could understand.
Because you are a—what?
Thank you!
You said the atactic and you are a leader, and you can put yourself empathetically into anybody’s shoes because you know how to do the research.
You know how to train your mind to learn something in a way that's going to connect with people, and you can do it again and again and again and again and again.
That’s a mechanism.
Now, how does that mechanism make me money?
Because connection is everything! Connecting, connecting at its core—direct response at its core.
It's one thing—one thing is taking something incredibly complicated, making it simple so that everyday people can understand, connect, and act.
Your mechanism fits perfectly into what copywriting is—a chain.
What’s your mechanism?
In education-based marketing through storytelling—you got that, Oscar?
Yeah! Is that clear to you, or do you need to ask more questions?
I think we’re good there.
In short, when I write copy, I’m not talking at people; I’m talking with them.
So you guys know the difference between the gold and platinum rule?
What’s the golden rule?
Treat everyone as you want to be treated!
Yep!
What’s the platinum rule?
Treat people the way they want to be treated!
Okay, and that’s the different voices in copy.
How do people need to—how do they want to be treated?
Pursue good—I knew it was with a P!
That's the Platinum rule!
Always apply the Platinum rule when writing copy!
Treat people as they want to be treated!
Holy [__]! Brace yourself!
I don’t think you’re ready for this!
This is not about you!
This is about the people who need our help and about how they want to be treated!
Yep, yep.
All right, any other questions?
We’re gonna cover this again—this is not the only time, this is the first time.
Because this is a skill that’s gonna make you money. The better you’re at it, the better you get at this, the easier writing copy is because you’re not guessing—you have all the information, you have your elements, and it’s easy.
You understand how it's coming together—like John Lennon said, “Right now, it's all over me!”
Yeah! And this is how we talk to clients, by the way.
You best believe I am me unapologetically, and so who I work with has to be somebody willing to deal with me or even excited to!
And you’re gonna connect with different people, and some of the site are gonna take some of my client; you’re gonna get that good.
You [__] good!
Because I mean, enough to go around because everybody has ideas every day, and a lot of those people who have ideas every day also have money.
So there’s no scarcity; I’m not afraid, and you shouldn’t be either!
Yeah, we’re in a beautiful space that’s evergreen because there’s always people coming up to the plate.
Then, oh yeah—let’s do it!
But I’m gonna show you how to do it right, yeah!
Yep!
All right, have a coat tomorrow, so this is perfect because I can record it—post it!
Now I want to see, and I’m not saying that the sound per degree or a creeper—just a little bit!
All right guys, Monday, same time—both don't have to go through your copy.
I haven’t had the opportunity yet to do that; I apologize.
All did, but yeah—we’re gonna start putting some money into your pockets for copy editing!
Nice! That was a really, really [__] good session of just coming hang of our own head, and that's so when I say you can’t right now.
If you want to make more money, if you want to be a better copywriter, well, who you were at the beginning of this call is a different person.
Let go of that person, keep the momentum going, be uncomfortable with that.
You’re somebody that you do not yet know.
Exactly! It’s a little bit scary, but it’s also funny!
But it’s exciting! I feel discomfort; it’s a blinking red neon motel sign—there's power here, Mark! There’s power here!
What’s—huh? What’s on the other side? You gotta stand up!
So lean into those rough edges, and you will always see what’s on the other side, and you’ll realize it never was scary!
Okay, ready on Skype, and I will chat with you guys on Monday!
Yes! Take care!