Transcription
Yes, guys, I have traveled to come and sit down with one of the greatest strikers in the modern era, if not the greatest. He has won everything at club level and played under some of the most incredible managers of this era. He is still one of the best in the business at scoring goals: Robert Lewandowski, presented by Qatar Airways on this episode of R [Music] Meets.
Hello, guys! Hey, here he is, the big man! How you doing? You okay?
Yeah, nice to see you, man. Nice to see you! I'm good, yeah. Good, good, good. Thanks for giving us the time; we appreciate it. Thank you, man. Do you like to sit down? How do you like the world?
Yeah, you know what? I arrived this morning. I came this morning, landed, and I'm here now. I didn't see anything, but I've been before. I can't believe it; I've got a tan! I'm burnt!
Let's talk about watching football. I love watching football. Are you one of those that just loves to get the games on?
Um, sometimes. Okay, I can watch the highlights, you know, this kind of thing. Something like 20-30 minutes of the game just to see what kind of teams are playing, what kind of tactics, this kind of thing. But that 90 minutes of the game? No, I'm not this kind of guy that watches games because we have so many games. So, you know, this is my private time. I try to enjoy and to be more focused on, you know, my family and things outside of football. TikTok, dancing, yeah, that was crazy! So, you know, to be too long at home makes this kind of thing.
Yeah, that was like for all of us, man, because I saw a different side to you. I didn't know you were this jokey guy because I always watch you on the pitch, number nine goes...
Yeah, but you know, it's like that's true that I was always focused on football because I knew that I wanted to try to be the best.
You've been in it so many years now, and it's changed over the years. I think at some points, the number nine is the most important player. It seems at the moment, the last few years, then the fullbacks became important when they inverted the way Pep did it. They touched the ball more than most people. And then recently, the last 18 months, maybe two years, it's like the number six—Rodri, this type of position, Kroos or Modric, Gundogan, who you played with before—these guys are the most important. Where do you think the most important position is on the pitch right now for the players?
Right now, I think position number six, because you have to find the balance between offensive and defensive. And yeah, the last one or two years, this number makes the difference. And of course, for the fans, they want to see the goals, you know? But if you are inside and involved in football for so many years, and in my way, I met so many great coaches, you know, that I started from the club, then later when I moved to Bayern with Guardiola, Ancelotti, Nagelsmann, and so on, Flick now again, you know, even that also in Barcelona with Xavi. So, for me, I'm very happy that I could meet this kind of guys.
You're lucky, man. You're lucky!
Yeah, I have to say, I don't know how many players you can find with this kind of experience with the coaches. So, Xabi Alonso is the only one who's close. I think he had Mourinho, Pep, Ancelotti, these guys. But you think you've gone past about the coach?
Also, I wanted to always take the best things from every one of the coaches.
Talking of coaches, it's a great opportunity to talk about someone who seems to have had a big impact on your career: Pep Guardiola. He signed you at Bayern Munich. What was it like? Take us back to the first time you met Pep and what he left you with.
Oh, the beginning was tough, you know, because Pep at that time was very, very focused, only on the football things. As a human, he was difficult for the players because he knew that he was so brilliant with the tactics that the players should follow him. And if the players followed him, they were going to win. I saw that later he started to change his personality, or I say to be more human, to be more open for the players. It can help him more than something tactical because I understood him. If you're playing against a team that doesn't have big chances against us, of course, tactics can help us a lot. But if you compare, like, the semifinal or final of the Champions League, this kind of thing, I think that's in my mind. Tactics are important; I don't want to say not, but on this level, I think different things can make you win or not, you know?
And you hear a lot of players say that about Ancelotti. It's not tactically where they say, "Ah, genius," it's the people skills.
Yeah, he is like a father, you know? He can come to you and say, "Why are you not so happy? What's going on?" And he's like more like an uncle, you know? So, you can talk with him about everything. So, they're completely different. Like, for example, Klopp—amazing guy, amazing! You know, he knows when he should be more tough, but also he knows exactly when he should be more like a friend, you know?
Did you think he was going to win immediately when you saw Pep? When you saw him on the training pitch, did you straight away have belief we can win everything?
From the first training session, I was very impressed. You know, he was so focused on details during the training session. Even that, before, I never thought that it was so important. I remember when we were playing Rondo, you know, that before for me was like playing, but for him, it was so important.
Why was it important?
Because it was important that you cannot play with the leg behind the second leg, you know? You have to be open with your body. You have to be open. You see the three different ways to play. Not only if you close with the left shoulder, you don't see the left side open, so you can only play back. You know, this way, if you're more open with your body, then you can play with three different options. So, this kind of difference I saw directly.
And when I came to Bayern, I remember also that later came to ask Xabi Alonso, and he was already that time 33, 35 years old, if I remember correctly. Before every training, he would go out before we started the training session and start to play just easy passes. I saw this and thought, "Okay, can I play with you?" And you know, passes from Xabi Alonso are not like quick and strong. In the beginning, he played like 10 passes perfectly on the pitch, and my passes, like every three passes, were like... and I thought, "Okay, I have to be more focused. I have to train this."
And after, I remember exactly after two or three months, we could play like 10 from him, 10 from me, like perfectly. You know, and he was already 35 years old, 34, I think. He never, even at that time, before only 10 minutes before the training session, every training session. And in the beginning, for me, it was okay. I take this; I want to also do this next step in my, you know, with my technical things.
And after two months, I remember exactly that I was so impressed with myself that I could play like him, you know, 10 passes, and it was like, "Wow, okay!"
What were the instructions like from somebody like Pep? What was he asking of you as a number nine?
He never asked me about anything, no. You know, he just told me, "No, no." Yeah, he told me, "I cannot help you because you are better than me. You know better how to finish the situation, how to finish the action. But I can help you how to bring the ball to you." And this is the only thing that he told me. But we talked a lot about football, and he explained to me a lot about the tactics—how the right back should go there, why the left back should go more high, why the central defender has to go with the ball, and when he should play on the right or the left.
We talked about this because for me, it was very interesting. And even that, for so many players, Pep was like—they were afraid to go to him. I was this kind of guy that if I didn't know something, I had a question, I would go to him and ask about it. And if he saw that I wanted to know, I wanted to learn, he was more open to me also as a human.
You know, it's like sometimes he explained to me a lot. I was so impressed that he gave me this advice, that he also analyzed after the game or before the game. For Pep, it was so important to be prepared well for the appointment.
You know, he has sometimes... oh, we... I love the story. No, the story was amazing because I remember that all week we prepared from, you know, that we were going to play like that. We wanted to play with the pressing; we were doing like that. And we were on the stadium before the game, we go to warm up, we come back to the dressing room after the warm-up, and he came to us, "Boys, boys, boys, sit, sit, sit! Boys, boys, boys, sit, sit! Listen, listen, listen!" And we were like, "What's going on?" You know, we were here, okay, we are listening.
"Forget everything what we did last week and what we're playing like this." And he showed us, you know, and for us, it was so easy to change the tactic—not even that before the game, but during the game. That was like an easy way, no problem.
Okay, we changed. One of the things when I speak to any player that played for him, one of the key things that they always talk about positively around him and makes him separate from everybody else is that he makes these players understand all the details clearer than anybody.
You trust him, yeah? If he prepared some kind of tactic, you take this even from the first things. It's crazy, but after, I don't know, a few weeks, you didn't think about this because you know that you can trust him, and you take this because in the end, it was going to be exactly what he wanted.
Did you ever go against him and say, "No, no, I don't believe this. I'm going to do my thing. I'm Robert Lewandowski; I know where to get the goals. I know how to shoot and score in my position"?
Yeah, I have to say that, you know, it's like I try to listen to a lot of people. I can take some advice from someone if it's good, but in the end, I have to find the best solution. Nobody can tell me because, okay, maybe one or second or third advice will be good, but during the game, you have so many situations. You don't have time to think, "Oh, he said he gave me advice like I should run like this." No, because you have to feel that; you have to know that from your brain.
So, in the end, I try to find the solution that is the best for me, you know, and for the team in the end because I know that if I give my best, I can help not only myself but also the team because my goals help my teammates. So, this connection is also important.
And sometimes, yeah, I had to think about what I should do. The decision for me will be the best for the team, but in the end, also for me.
It's getting to a stage—I mean, I'm not scared; probably too strong—but I think a lot about this. For a lot of players, the system is overriding and more important than the individual now, and it's too much. It's too hard.
Yeah, that's true. For so many players, it was sometimes too much tactics, too many videos, you know? Because you see some players sitting there sometimes like, "Oh my God!"
Yeah, but that was, and that is still, you know? I remember exactly that for the players sometimes, "Okay, again, we have to repeat this. You have to be focused." And of course, it's like in life, some people don't want to do this because they don't have enough mentality to do this, and they don't want to because maybe they feel happier if they don't do this. You cannot judge them because they do what for them is enough.
So, Thomas Müller doesn't look like somebody who wants meetings and wants too much information. He looks like he will go crazy, this guy!
Yeah, but Thomas Müller is a very intelligent guy, you know? On the pitch, he helped me a lot because always he was behind me. And I was making the press on the defender; sometimes he doesn't see that the number six is going on the left or the right. Okay, I try to see, but it's easier for me if someone left, so I can block the way that the defender cannot play to the number six.
So for him, okay, if he blocks this pass, I don't have to run there. So it's better that I tell him left, left, and I be more focused on the second guy of the number six, you know?
So crazy! But you know, for me, Thomas Müller, in the end, when I'm thinking about this, he didn't have the best shot, he didn't have the technique, all the speed, but in the end, he impacted the game.
Yeah, exactly! He read the game like nobody else in my career, for example. And always he was so positive. It doesn't matter how he scored the goal, but he scored the goal. It doesn't matter how he played the pass, but the pass was there, you know? So this is exactly Thomas Müller, and I love to play with him.
And yeah, it's like the main of this club, Bayern Munich, I think. And for this club, it's also the future for him. I love him!
Moving on to another manager who could have had a big influence on your career: Big Sam, Sam Allardyce. You know him?
Yeah, I heard!
Is it true that he almost signed you from, is it Lech Poznań, for Blackburn Rovers?
Yeah, it was like one meeting. I remember exactly how it was this meeting, please.
Competitive?
I remember the place that I met with him, and I think that also some sport director was, I think, with him. But inside, I had a different feeling, you know, that I wanted to go to the club that was playing in the, you know, in the European competition. And at that time, I had a few offers.
Yeah, I wanted to only travel to see how it looks, you know, training camp, how it looks, you know, these kind of big clubs. But also to get or to see the difference experience, to get the experience—not that I wanted to join this club.
Yeah, because I knew that I wanted to take a different way for my career. But I don't know, maybe I go, I see from my experience, I can learn something, and that's all. But in the end, yeah, I met with him, and I remember that they wanted me a lot. But I knew that for me, this way is not perfectly timed to join them.
Oh, what could have been if you had signed for Big Sam? What kind of player could you have been?
But you know, looking at strikers now, I think the role of a striker seems to have changed a little bit. What number nine would you consider yourself as? Because you got, for instance, Haaland, who doesn't want to touch the ball, doesn't care to touch the ball but wants to score. If he scores, he's happy. Someone like Kane wants to be involved more sometimes passing. What number nine is Lewandowski?
Yeah, I'm between. I'm not happy if I don't touch the ball, you know? Even that I scored the goal and I finished well, that I got a brilliant pass, and sometimes, you know, I just touch the ball, and it's inside the goal, but I'm not involved in the game, you know?
Okay, I don't want sometimes to be too much because then I have too far away. I'm too far away from the box, you know, the area. But also, I try to, even with the movement, without the ball, to take some defense and make the space for my teammates. So I'm between. I also like to be involved in building up, to be involved before I score the goal. But it's always the perfect way when I score the goal, and I can be more involved, and also my teammates can use the space that I make for them.
It's funny you say that about being a bit in between. Xavi, who a lot of the fans, especially the Man United fans who kind of listen and watch the pod, he said he's a .5 number nine. What type of player is he? Because a lot of people are asking the question, "What type of player is Xavi?" You played with him at Bayern Munich.
He plays amazing with his back to the goal, you know? He can hold the ball, he can play with one touch or two touches, and bring the wingers to behind his back. He has also the good finishing in the box because he's big, you know? He's young, but he's big, and I think he can keep the ball, hold the ball very, very strong.
And of course, he needs a little bit of time; it's normal if you join this kind of club, a big club with huge expectations. And he scored already a lot of goals in Serie A, so for him, that was like the first season that he was involved, you know, as a typical striker.
But you know, now the time for Manchester is not so brilliant.
And laughing, man, come on, please!
Yeah, but it's, you know, I'm not laughing; I'm not laughing, but it's true, you know? Because it's a big team, and of course, I want him to come back on the right track. But he's the striker; he can really help teammates and the team if you know how to use him, you know? And also, he can score the goals, but also, I think he's not a typical goal-scoring striker. He's also a player who can help the teammates to create the space for them.
Okay, cool. Well, that's good. Make sure we start using him in the right way, man. But when you play, I'm interested to know, because I'm a center back, and I look at things from a defensive perspective. To play against you, I think it would be difficult because, like you say, you can do both sides of the game—movement, passing, also scoring in a devastating fashion. Who have you had some of your most favorite and most difficult battles with?
I always remember when I competed with Sergio Ramos, you know? To play against him was like a huge challenge, you know? He was playing always very hard, very strong. He wanted to be always close to me, and that for me was some—wow, that was a huge competition.
But yeah, I remember winning Champions League games when we were playing against Manchester City, and Kompany was playing there. I had to fight with him, like, very strong. And you know, he's big, and I'm not so big, but maybe I have strong because I'm like the natural strong inside me.
And I remember that I was so pissed off one time with him because he was playing very strong, and I used my skills from judo a little bit, you know?
Yeah, because my father was, yeah, like the judo, and when I was young, I also trained a lot of judo, but only at home because he didn't want me to train judo like more professional.
And I remember the situation that I was so impressed with myself that, you know, Kompany is a big guy, a defender. I put him down, you know? And yeah, that was like for me, so judo helped you physically, like in football as well.
Because not only physically, but also flexibility, you know? Because in judo, you have to be flexible. You have to know how to handle your body. You know, it's not like you are like a robot, but your body is very flexible.
And also, when I was young, my father was my physical education teacher, and I was very angry because we never trained like football. Always different sports like basketball, handball, volleyball, because my mother was a volleyball player, my sister also. And we did a lot of gymnastics, as you know.
And when I was young, I did a lot of gymnastics. I tried, you know, I knew how to do a lot of, you know, this kind of gymnastics thing that for anybody else was so difficult. And I see now, after so many years, and I can be thankful for my father that the difference with the new exercises, I can adapt very, very easily to the new exercises, my body also.
And probably because of this, because in football now, what do you see? The players from the academy, they just play football, and you know, if they, during the game, have different moves, like the body is not so ready, you know? And I see that they have so many problems with so many easy things that before we did when we go out from the, you know, from the apartment, from the house, and did during the day.
Now you see like, yeah, because the world looks like everybody stays inside. You go to home, your parents bring you to the training session, then you come back home, go to school, and it's like very the same way.
And before, we spent so much time outside with friends doing different things. And I think that for the future, for the young players, this is also the challenge—to stay not only because of the games, how many games they have, but it's also that the subject is very difficult for the future.
Can I think that the quality and the level of football is going down because of this? Too many games, too many games. Because it's not sometimes about the games, but you travel a lot now. You're playing at 9:00, so you can go to bed at like 3:00, 4:00, and you cannot sleep till 12:00. No, just a few hours, and you don't have enough days.
Because I see the difference if we play, for example, Wednesday-Saturday, that you have only two days. But if you're playing Wednesday-Sunday, the one day more is a huge difference.
I'm speaking now about the small details, but if you have so many games, it's impossible to stay on top or play at the top every game. It's crazy.
That brings me to a good point about looking after your body, conditioning your body, and the age you're at—36 years old now. What changes have you made in the last few years, maybe even recently, to prolong your career, to still be scoring at the rate that you're scoring?
I have to say that I started thinking about this, playing longer at the top level, when I was 22, 23 years old.
Wow!
Yeah, because you cannot expect that if you change your nutrition, if you change your food, that you don't see a difference after one week, two weeks, or one month. At that time, I said to myself, "Okay, I take this. Why not?"
What are you doing? Gymnastics or...?
Oh, different from the physical things, like starting to work in the gym, that for the nutrition, for the healthy food. And even that, after four years, I was thinking that I knew a lot. So that time, for example, my wife came to me, "I have something new; you have to test, you have to try this because I'm studying now something new."
And I was like, "Okay, okay, okay, wait, wait, wait! I have to listen to the wife!" No, I said, "Wait, wait, okay, but if I see the difference after three or four weeks, okay, we can change it."
So this kind of thing, and always I saw the difference. I always saw that even so many years I thought that I knew a lot, something new always came. And it's still changing.
And it's the same as football. If I'm thinking now about football, the same like even five years ago, I will not be in this place for sure because I know that football is changing. You have to adapt. You cannot compare the football that's going on, how it plays today, even five years—not talking about 10 years ago because it's completely different.
It's like the players; you have different generations. You have different, like the mental is different. So you have to know it. And I also learned a lot in Barcelona, for example, that I saw the young players. I see them, and on the beginning, I was asking myself, "Should I tell them that football sometimes looks different?" Or maybe I should take what they have good, what they have really like the positive things from football to take from my side.
And I learned a lot from them, even that they are 16, 17, 18 years old. But also, like these kind of things that sometimes you have to enjoy what you are doing, but find the balance between, you know?
And it helped me a lot also to feel very confident in this team, this city, because, you know, the fans, they're amazing from the first day. And I'm very glad that I can be part of this amazing club because I didn't expect that from the first day. They supported me a lot, and this means a lot to me, even during the games.
But also, I want to give them not only me as a football player on the pitch but also with my experience, what I saw, what I see in football, to give also to the club how these kind of things can work better.
And you look at someone like Lamine Yamal, yeah? 20 years difference in a changing room. How is that like when you see a kid like this coming in?
The first time when I saw him on our training session, he was 15.
Really? 15?
And from the first time in my life, I saw someone because I saw a lot of young talented players, but the first time in my life, I saw that I have inside this "Wow, who is it?" You know? I saw the players, "Oh, he has good this kind of skill," and these guys, you know?
It's a little bit about Musiala also; he had something, you know? But Lamine, the first thinging, I was like, "Wow, this guy is like, how is it possible at this age? He's already on this kind of level," you know? And even that he was 16 years old, that was still like, "Come on, it's impossible to be so good, so clever also at this age."
But I always try to give him maybe some kind of advice that for one side is amazing what he did, what he's doing, but also he has to think that soon for him will be the huge challenge to stay on this level or maybe do the next step.
And it's not about the next two, three years; we are talking about the next maybe 10 years. But he should be thinking about what he should do to be on the top like 28, 29, 30, or even longer. And I think for him, this is the biggest challenge of his career.
Do you think your career might have been different if social media was around when you were 18?
Probably, yeah. Yeah, for sure.
More like this?
Do you think? Or it's not only about the social media, but even the new generation, you know, that they are different. I mean, I don't want to say better or bad, don't worry.
No, no, I mean that it's different because I'm starting to play with the players that now they are 16 years old, man, almost 15.
Yeah, but it's like I think that four decades now that I'm playing with the football, that I'm playing now with the 17-year-old players, you know? If you compare, so you cannot compare because it's completely different.
But I think now for the new generation that if they want to play football at a high level, playing for a long time, that the social media and the mentality will be very tough. I think that they will be almost impossible to play more than 10 years at the top level.
You played in the youngest ever side to win the Bundesliga with Dortmund, and I'm interested. We keep talking about the young players, but what are the differences between playing in a young team and playing in a more experienced team like you probably played with Bayern?
You know, in Dortmund, for example, I was also young. I remember exactly that we were a very young team. We had a lot of young players, maybe two or three more with experience, but we won two times, you know, the German league and the cup as well. We played in the final of the Champions League.
So, yeah, but we had the club, so like the coach who knew that he had the kids around, a little bit like the kindergarten, you know? And he knew how to manage us. And in the end, we knew that we were so hungry, you know, to win something, and he helped us a lot and knew how to take from the players not 100%, but 110 or 120%.
And if I think about the players that we were playing at that time, you know, that was like over the limit of them. So that was the club's best strength—was that his best strength, getting the best out of every player?
He can take from the players the things that even the players that they don't think that they can play at this kind of level, you know? Of course, it's difficult for the long term, but for the short, he could do because you see that so many players that time when we were playing in the Champions League final, we won—that was the high level of them as well.
And yeah, that time to win the titles two times in a row like the German league, outside of Bayern, nobody won. Big achievement!
Yeah, was he playing heavy metal football as well then? Did he call it heavy metal football?
Yeah, it's like the rock and roll! Yeah, it's like sometimes in the halftime when we were playing bad, he came and he did like a complete, you know, like change of the main character, you know? That he motivated us very, very well because he knew that he had a young team, and also the generation was different.
I don't think that maybe the new generation, you have to be different a little bit. You know, the new generation, you have to take care of them. You know, like 15 years ago, if you were being stronger, that was for me when I was young, "Okay, I want more." I wasn't afraid that someone would shout at me, you know? I was more motivated later.
And now, I'm not sure that the young players are ready for this kind of shouting from the coach, yeah? Because it's like... but it's not about football; it's generational in the world, you know? You have to be more nice, you know?
And I don't think that the young players now, like if someone shouts at them, it's like, you know? But not only in football, yeah?
But general in the world, look, the life looks like that. So you have to also change that. Sometimes I'm from this generation; for me, it was very motivating when someone shouted at us, you know?
And now, it's like you have to find the balance. It's not I'm not saying that you cannot speak loud or, you know, speak more strongly. No, no, but sometimes you cannot always shout.
Like sometimes before, it was, you know, I remember exactly that the players before the game, more defenders, sorry, but it was like that, that come on, we are going for the game, we are fighting, yeah, we are doing. But the first minutes, and you couldn't control the ball because you were so motivated, but over-motivated.
Now, after so many years, I learned also that it's not important what you're talking about before the game because you already had the time to prepare for this game. Now it's just to repeat the things that sometimes are very easy, very clear, but to repeat.
But most importantly, you with your feet can control the ball—not only R, like, you know, 15 years ago.
So this is the huge difference. Just to go back to Klopp because he really interests me—his character. What is there? Are there any specifics about how he gets the best out of players? Give me some examples where you remember where he's done something.
After the Champions League, we lost one game. I think that was an away game, and we were in the hotel. And that was my second year in Dortmund, and that time I was starting to speak German, but not so fluently that I could understand everything, you know?
I felt that I didn't know what he wanted from me, what he expected from me. I had to talk with him because, you know, also I lost my father when I was 16 years old, and in my life, I didn't have someone who I could always speak about, you know, my problems or my things.
So I was the guy that time very close, you know? And I knew that when I go to him, speak with him, maybe I feel better, you know? We were speaking like one and a half hours, you know? Even that sometimes I didn't understand him because he was speaking German, and I tried to... and I said, "Yeah, I understand everything."
But, you know, the conversation that he talked to me, sometimes I talked to him, but you know, that time I didn't understand everything he was talking to me. But after this conversation, it wasn't important what we were talking about. For me, it was more important that he talked to me that way.
For me, it was like I was speaking with my father, you know? Maybe because of my private situation, like emotion, that I needed that time something like this kind of conversation.
But when we came back to Dortmund, and on Saturday, we were playing in the Bundesliga, and after two days, nothing what you can change in days. We won 4-0; I scored a hat trick and made the assist.
So in the end, you know, this kind of conversation opened something that I had inside. Sometimes you need somebody to unlock it, exactly. And you know, it's because I am maybe this kind of guy that I needed that time conversation.
I saw my way in the career; always the conversation made me more, you know, more confident that I can support someone even more, you know? It's maybe because of my situation that I had in my life. I don't know.
But that time, I remember exactly that this conversation changed my career.
It's interesting you said that because my children lost their mother—three of them—and I worry about them talking and communicating. So it's interesting to see that you reached out for somebody, maybe separate from your mom, outside a manager, a coach, and you had the confidence to do that.
It's important, but I have to say I didn't have the confidence to do that. But I knew that I had to do it, even that I didn't feel this confidence. Because now it's completely different; I learned, you know, to break my, you know, not comfort zone, but break my habit, exactly.
And you know, when you are 16 years old, you lost your father from one day to the next day. I was very, very, you know, very sad for me. And one year later, my contract was finished, and I didn't know when I was going to play.
So I was in there like the time, the way that, "What can I do? I have to say, okay, enough with the football," or "Say goodbye, go to college to, you know, to start to study."
All the second way, I said, "No, it doesn't matter what's happened. What they say about me, you actually was thinking about going. You might have to go to study."
It was like this kind of two-way, you know?
Wow, I didn't start to think maybe two seconds.
Yeah, but I didn't know this way. It's not for me. I cannot—I never give up.
Yeah, it's tough. And maybe that's why I was very close as a human, as a person. But in the end, this kind of step that I did with the club made me stronger and starting to learn, "Okay, if this conversation helps me, I have to try again."
Even that still is difficult to do the first step with someone, you need to come to speak with them. But I'm trying, even that for me was difficult, but I knew it for the long way that can help me.
Brilliant! What would you say is your biggest achievement in football so far?
I was playing in the era of Cristiano Ronaldo and Messi, and of course, I can talk about the success with the team, like the Champions League. Like in one season, we won like everything—everything! I think the second team in history, and I was part of it, and I was the goal scorer in each of the competitions.
So, you know, it's like top goal scorer, top goal scorer, and I scored also, I don't know, in one season, 69 goals. It's like, you know, it's like... it's because for me, like, yeah, like I scored five goals in nine minutes, for example.
And till now, I cannot explain to you how I did this.
Did you feel invincible though at this time? Because at this time, you're the best player in the world, arguably the best player in the world, right? So it's Leo Messi, Cristiano, or you. Were you going on the pitch and thinking, "Nobody can touch me, nobody can stop me"?
You know, sometimes you have this kind of feeling that you are... only some people have that.
Yeah, but on the other side, you have to stay on the ground, you know? You cannot think that you are like a superhero and everything now you can do whatever you want, and that will be good.
Now, I was always trying to be on the ground. If I think about, like, I finished that five goals in nine minutes after the game, I didn't realize that I scored this.
And I remember that Thomas pushed me to the defense to celebrate, and I was like, "Why?" Well, okay, I scored the goal, but we won the important game.
But when I first want, I came back home, that everyone was family, my friends were on this game, and they were so happy. I was like, "Okay, yeah, I scored five goals; it's amazing, but nine minutes? Okay, but what does it mean?"
I didn't know, and I asked my wife, "Can you do pancakes for me, please?" You know? And it's like, "Oh, wow!"
And the first time I know, the first time when I understood what I did was the Christmas time when I sat at the table with my family. And I think that was the first time that I was more calm, you know, more like relaxed.
And that was, I remember, "Okay, now I understood." Because you know why? Because after this game, we played every two, three days, or you know, we had Bundesliga, Champions League, and Bundesliga.
And in these three games, I scored 12 goals, something like that, and I don't remember the next one because that time, for me, that wasn't important. The game already was over for me after the game.
Or I'm starting preparation for the next game, and I know I can't enjoy.
No, no, because I know that I can enjoy later, you know? If I start thinking too much about this, that will be for my mentality more weak, you know?
Because it's normal if you read so many good things about you, your mental is going down. You cannot...
And I remember I turned off the phone; I turned off—I didn't use the internet, nothing. Because I know if I start to read this kind of thing, even that are brilliant about me, everything, you know, think I would be reading everything.
No, but I know that for me, it's the better way because maybe later I can come back to the situation and read or see this, like what's happened.
But I was with my mentality; I tried to build my mentality so strong that it doesn't matter that it's going well or sometimes going bad, but my mentality is or will be ready for everything.
And talking about how kind of invincible you were and how driven you were, how many goals you were scoring. I think it's like 50, 55 goals in that season. In the COVID year, COVID took away this man's Ballon d'Or. How do you feel about that?
Seriously, that's one of the main things I want to speak to you about. When I was on the way here to see you, at that time, I didn't understand why. Because every league was playing, Champions League was playing, and that was like for me, "Who? Why?"
I know how football works; sometimes politics also, because if you have football, you have business. If you have business, you have politics, and everything works with money in the end.
Just to stop you as well because I've got some stats here as well to even just enhance what you're saying for people that maybe don't know the detail and can't think back. But you look at this, and at the time of recording this podcast right now, you've outscored both Haaland and Mbappé since you all became active in the Champions League.
Yeah, you now share the record of the highest score in average of 0.79 goals per game in European competition with Lionel Messi. So we're talking about standards that are just like crazy.
And to think that you didn't win a Ballon d'Or in that time, I can't think of any—only Thierry Henry, the only other player that I look at and go, "He should have won a Ballon d'Or," and he didn't win it. You're the other one.
And it's only because of COVID. We got to start a petition to get you the medal! Would you take it now after they give it back?
If they give it to you, of course!
And you've done it with your football. After that, again, you outscored everybody. I think Messi, when he won it, he got 38 goals; you got 46 goals that year.
And you look at it and you go, you must be sitting there thinking, "What do I have to do, man?"
You know, in the different... I was trying to compare with Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo in my career, you know?
So did you kind of need them and use them as inspiration?
I used them, yeah. I used them for sure to inspire—not on inspiration, but to try to drive yourself.
No, not to beat them, but to beat some kind of records, goals, the level that I achieve. Okay, I didn't want to compare with Messi or Cristiano, never as a football player because, of course, they are on a different level, different worlds.
But I'm very happy that I was like some years behind already behind them or like even some years that I could beat them, you know, like the best player in the world in two years in a row and against them, you know?
So for me, I think that I never dreamt about this—to be like Lewandowski, Messi, and Ronaldo, who's going to win the FIFA Best Player in the World, you know? So I was there, and I won.
That's good, man!
I wasn't there, but let's finish with... We always talk to the guys about their F-side team. You've played with some magnificent players over the years. If you could pick an F-side team with the best players you've played with—no goalkeepers; goalkeepers don't make the cut—what five players would they be?
Okay, who are the best ones? We did this with David Beckham at the moment; he has the best team.
Yeah, it's crazy!
Okay, okay, well, okay.
Ribery!
Oh, Ribery! What was good? Tell me about Ribery. What was so good?
His prime was amazing! He never liked to score the goals. He never liked to score the goals; he liked to play passes. Even that he dribbled like eight players, he had like the empty goal to just score the goal, and he passed.
And I was like, "Why you don't like to score the goal? This is illegal in your life!"
In your life, this never happened?
No, it happened sometimes, yeah. But of course, if I dribble eight, I have an empty goal, of course, I score.
But he was amazing, also the guy, amazing like the player, you know? And yeah, he was so fast with the ball, dribbling. Frank Ribery was like one of the greatest players in the history.
I have how many defenders?
What do you want? You can have all attack; I don't care! Whatever you want!
Wow, your team might get beat!
But Alaba!
Oh, I didn't think Alaba!
Wow, Sur, yeah, top!
Yeah, top, top! In the fashion stakes, he's very good as well!
Yeah, good fashion! I can find a better one now, you know, in my team.
Oh, Kimmich!
Oh, this is unbelievable!
Do you kill him sometimes with this? He was at the catwalk the other day with the cream that... that wasn't so, you know, the highest, you know, the suit from him.
But yeah, he's like, he loves this!
Yeah, some, you know, it's like from the beginning, it was like a little bit strange, but later you see so many times that you... you see it, I like to see it!
Yeah, exactly!
Oh, I remember one conversation with Alex Ferguson, you know? For example, that was 2012, playing that time.
You almost signed for United?
I decided to join Manchester United.
What year? What year?
2012, was there.
Yeah, I remember the conversation that was in the before preseason. We were playing some games. I was—I knew that he's going to call to me.
And at halftime, I was subbed off because I knew that I was playing 45 minutes. I had the call, and that time, you know, my English, you know, that was on a different level.
And even especially if I'm going to speak with this kind of guy, that's Alex Ferguson calling to me, and I'm calling to him now.
Was you nervous?
Very! And I knew, "Okay, he's going to speak easy English."
Yeah, and he called, "Hello, my name is Robert Lewandowski."
Yeah, hi, hi! You know this accent, Scottish accent.
And I said, "Yes, yes, of course! I knew what I should tell him, you know?"
Yeah, of course, I want to join Manchester United!
Yeah, can you repeat again?
Yes, yes, of course!
So why didn't you?
You signed, man!
Ask the club, you know?
No, I remember also the conversation with the president of Dortmund. He said to me they need him; they're not going to sell me to Manchester United because I'm so important for them.
And not enough, no, it's not the perfect time now.
So, yeah, but that time, I said yes.
Yeah, that's true! I said yes to join Manchester United because if you see Alex Ferguson call you, you cannot say no, you know?
Especially when I was 22 or 23 years old, and you know, that time for I was playing for Dortmund, even I'm, you know, I was happy about Manchester United and like the prime of Manchester United, you know?
What team we would have had, man! Jesus!
Right, give me three more players. Go on!
Okay, some defenders, Ribery, Alaba, Xabi Alonso.
Oh, great player, Xabi Alonso!
Yeah, I can say also Arjen Robben.
Oh, Batman and Robin, huh? Ribery and Robben back together again!
Even he didn't like to play passes, you know?
Selfish!
Yeah, yeah, everyone knows that he goes on the left foot.
Everyone!
You already to be there, and also Arjen was this kind of player that before the training session, he already did the training session in the gym.
Yeah, but sometimes he was so wet. He was, I don't know, one hour, and I was like, "Why are you doing this if we are already after the game before the next game?"
And I was so, you know, so confused.
I remember one situation that Pep, in 65 minutes, took him off the pitch, and he was angry because he was playing.
And you know, the next day, even that 65 minutes that you need like some regeneration training, the next game, no, he was on the pitch; he was training so hard that I was like, "Okay, I understand because I like also sometimes working hard."
But this way was like, "Arjen, come on!"
Yeah, this is the kind of players on this level.
And sometimes, you know, he did this because of the emotion, I think that he had inside, and he couldn't believe or he couldn't accept that he played bad, you know?
So the next day, but every training session, even that we were already after the hard training session, the next day was more...
No, he was already in the gym, prepared for the next, you know, for the next training session.
Okay, so last player, last player.
For sure, I forgot about someone.
Oh, Busquets!
Also, what?
Okay, I have Xabi Alonso, so more forward, some forward.
Yeah, Thomas Müller because I love to play with him.
Does he get in there?
Yeah, but I was playing with them a few years; he was very young, you know?
It's like I'm trying to find someone who was playing a few years, like, you know, of course, he's amazing, and he has a brilliant future.
But I try to find someone, you know, players with them.
Did you play with...?
Yeah, Lahm, but you know, Lahm, Xabi Alonso, Thiago.
Oh, prime of Thiago!
He had everything, you know? Because he was strong, left foot, right foot, with the ball, amazing. He was also fast, but this guy, this prime of Thiago was for me like amazing.
So Thiago is in, yeah?
Okay, okay, so your team is Ribery, Alaba, Xabi Alonso, Robben, Lahm.
Yeah, I forgot for sure; I forgot about someone.
Yeah, but this doesn't matter. After five minutes, I came to you back, and I forgot about...
Send me a DM! DM me!
Okay, okay, thank you!
Listen, man, Robert, really appreciate your time. Fantastic talk!