Why $35,000 MSTR DESTROYS The Bitcoin Power Law!(British HODL & American HODL Explains)

**What happens to the power law when Black Rock says, "You know what, we [ __ ] up, it should be a 20% Bitcoin allocation"? What happens then? What happens when nation states start stacking? Like Boy says, it's all included in the power law. He predicted Michael Saylor, he predicted Black Rock, he predicted everything that’s happening. It was all in the power law. MSTR is going so much higher because of their actions.**

**So, alright then, 35k of MSTR. I'm bearish because if you take Saylor's own calculations when he said it's going to get to $13 million or grow at 29%, if you just grow that... His estimation last time I checked was like $90,000 a share. I know a million dollars seems like a really high price, and it is, right? But it's certainly not Bitcoin's end state. That's not the ultimate price for Bitcoin. Bitcoin's going higher than a million dollars into the future, and we're only 10x away from a million. You know what's not speculation? What's not speculation is while Bitcoin's been going down the last couple of days, Black Rock is buying up thousands and thousands of Bitcoin. What's not speculation is MSTR has got $42 billion to go shopping with. What's not speculation is El Salvador is continuing to buy Bitcoin. What's not speculation is Russia is looking at a strategic Bitcoin reserve. What's not speculation is we now have a template for an executive order for America buying Bitcoin in a strategic reserve. All of that is not speculation.**

**No one was expecting Black Rock to come in as hot as they have. It took them 10 years to put $30 billion into their gold ETF, and it's taken like 10 months to do it with Bitcoin. Two big sins in Bitcoin: number one, not being bullish enough on Bitcoin; number two, being too bullish on Bitcoin. Bing Bong, I am back with another edition of the State of Bitcoin podcast where I've got both British and American HODL in the house. This is prepared to be the most bullish interview that you have possibly ever heard in your entire life. I'm getting jacked up just sitting here. We got American HODL with the sunglasses on. 100k is hitting different. But boys, I got to start off by asking you about the power law, right? It's a big controversial topic. We've got people predicting X amount for Bitcoin next year. You guys are both predicting that it's going to absolutely smash and skyrocket because there are a lot of factors that aren't really poised for that. So I'll leave it there. Where do you guys think of the power law and trying to predict Bitcoin's price based on that for 2025?**

**British, you gotta go first. You're like the power law [ __ ] nightmare over here for these guys. Listen, all I'm saying is all of those people that gave us all that [ __ ] trying to promote this [ __ ] better sell their [ __ ] Bitcoin at $200,000 because they started saying this is going to $200,000. It's going to crash down. You got [ __ ] Mario over here trying to say, "Okay, you can multiply your Bitcoins," trying to get people to exit their positions. You better sell your [ __ ] Bitcoin, otherwise I'm coming after every single one of those power law people, and I want to see evidence that you took profits at $200,000 like you were trying to tell everyone else to do and sacrifice their future family's wealth. That's my opinion on the [ __ ] power law. Power opinion, that's the real name.**

**So yeah, the power law thing is, to me, confusing, and it seems to rope in a certain type of, let's just be honest, autistic person who believes that they found some immutable law of the universe and like this simply must happen, right? And you know, fun. I think the problem I have with it is that it's a bet against human action. People sometimes talk about the game theory of Bitcoin being like, "You know, it's inevitable, bro." And that's true; it is inevitable because of human action. If you take the human action out of the mix, it no longer becomes inevitable. It's inevitable because of the way it incentivizes all of our collective greed to work for the benefit of the system instead of against the system.**

**So I think if you look at the changing geopolitical landscape, like, you know, talk of the strategic Bitcoin reserve, which we talked about in the last show we did, Brandon, and like, you know, Black Rock now saying that you should have a 2% Bitcoin allocation. What happens to the power law when Black Rock says, "You know what, we [ __ ] up, it should be a 20% Bitcoin allocation"? What happens then? What happens when nation states start stacking? Like Boy says, it's all included in the power law. It predicted everything that’s happening. It was all in the power law.**

**I think also, by the way, you know, I'm not going to pick on anybody directly here, but like I'll do that if somebody is telling you that they have this perfect system that spits out only correct answers all the time, the obvious question you should ask them is, "Are you a multi-billionaire then?" And if the answer is no, then it's like, "Okay, well, why don't you?" Either two things here: the system's not real and it doesn't work, or two, you don't trust your own system. Both of which require explanations. And so, like, I don't know, I just I don't buy into all that [ __ ]. I've been through this with stock-to-flow, which I promoted because I liked it as a meme, and then I saw how the meme took on this life of its own and became like a thing where people thought it was real. And then even if it was real, because the market thought it was real, it didn't work anymore, and there was no reflexivity on there. So it's like, I don't know, stay away from all this [ __ ] of like people telling you exactly what's going to happen because they're going to be wrong.**

**Yeah, no one was expecting the president of the United States of America in 2024 to start talking about having a Bitcoin strategic reserve. That was on no one's card in January. I guarantee you that. No one was expecting Black Rock to come in as hot as they have. It took them 10 years to put $30 billion into their gold ETF, and it's taken like 10 months to do it with Bitcoin. They put out a marketing piece the other day where they called gold a shiny metal. Black Rock called gold a shiny metal. No one is expecting this. No one was expecting January alone for politicians to start dropping like flies. No one is expecting this. You cannot predict what's going to happen here. And unfortunately, you know, as a non-math PhD douchebag, one thing I can tell you with my five minutes of study is that most things start off looking like some kind of power law, and then it very rapidly emerges that it's actually an S-curve of adoption, which is what technology normally goes through. And that's what I think is going to happen here, and all these people are going to be left selling their Bitcoin, trying to multiply them, and they're going to end up with nothing, which is what pisses me off the most about, you know, jeppy.**

**Well, yeah, people, I've seen some power law here and saying things like it's mathematically impossible that we go to like a million dollars in the next few years, right? And it's like, what does that mean? Like mathematically impossible? Like if a bunch of nation states and a bunch of power players on Wall Street all decide to start buying Bitcoin, you know, and a bunch of corporates decide to start doing a micro strategy, then how can you say that it's mathematically impossible? It just makes no sense. It's not even a serious theory. By the way, they don't say it's a theory; they say it's a law, right? Like at least Plan B was like, "Hey, this is a model," and all models are, you know, eventually going to get broken. He just thought his model would be broken to the upside, and it turned out to be broken to the downside. And then he came out with like 30 different models because the original model wasn't working. But then he doubled back and he was like, "Actually, the original model does work." And so it's like, listen, I saw somebody on Twitter being like, "Hey, Bitcoin's going to 72k because there's a golden FIB retracement on the Fibonacci sequence and there's a Wyckoff pattern, and you know, we're looking at a serious B on the 4-hour candle." And you're just like, "What? Shut the [ __ ] up! You don't know what the [ __ ] you're talking about. You're guessing. You're doing divination. You know, it's just random pattern seeking. It's false attribution."**

**And yeah, if you're new here, just ignore all those people because they don't know [ __ ] about [ __ ]. That's all speculation. You know what's not speculation? What's not speculation is while Bitcoin's been going down the last couple of days, Black Rock is buying up thousands and thousands of Bitcoin. What's not speculation is MSTR has got $42 billion to go shopping with. What's not speculation is El Salvador is continuing to buy Bitcoin. What's not speculation is Russia is looking at a strategic Bitcoin reserve. What's not speculation is we now have a template for an executive order for America buying Bitcoin in a strategic reserve. All of that is not speculation. Power law, power opinion, stock-to-flow charts, all this other [ __ ] is pure and utter speculation. And the extent of your intelligence with Bitcoin has to be: do you believe in supply versus demand? That's it. It's a very, very simple asset to understand.**

**Yeah, and I don't think that you guys have lined out all the points that you cannot model theoretically. So, I mean, where do you guys think this is going then? You think it's definitely going to break to the upside? I mean, H, American HODL, last time you were on here, you said like with all these factors, you could very well see like a million dollars worth of Bitcoin next year in 2025. And I mean, it seems like with more and more nation states coming on, businesses coming on as well, that could be a very real possibility because we don't know how much FOMO could come in and, you know, on all those factors. So do you still see it as something where this thing, the exit velocity is just taking off here before our eyes?**

**Well, like I said on the last show, I assigned different probabilities, like if we get an SBR versus if we don't get an SBR. And so, yeah, I think with an SBR, that's an SBR that's appropriately bullish, like one that's buying like a million plus Bitcoin. I think that you are going to see all those things. That's my personal opinion. I would put a pretty high weighting on that. But without the SBR, I think we're in for more of a diminished return cycle. The big question here is like does the diminished returns idea that this goes back to the power law guys because they effectively believe in diminished returns and they believe there's like a 200k ceiling there. Or I would say the power law adherents and the people that believed in diminished returns, they share that view that 180, 200k, that's about the top. Do those people get shaken out of their positions? And when they get shaken out of their positions, does the stock, does Bitcoin run against them? And when it runs against them, do they then FOMO back into their positions? And if that occurs, then it is going to go much, much higher, that four, five, six, seven, eight hundred to a million, in my view. Now, I think that it's going to be a long year. Just to like, you know, spell this out for people, what I think is that I think that we're going to take, you know, the market climbs a wall of worry, right? So like it's going to chip away at like 110, 120, 130, just climb, climb, climb, climb, climb. And then when we get to that 180, 200 level, which we're going to fight hard to achieve, I believe, I think we're going to fall from there because there will be a lot of profit taking around there. And then the question is, does the bull market, you know, resuscitate itself and go crazy into the end of 25, the beginning of 26? So yeah, I mean, there's a lot of factors at play. I can't call it definitively either way, but you know, we'll see what happens with the SBR and the diminished returns hypothesis.**

**British, what do you think of all that? Do you think that the SBR is an absolute game changer? I mean, you lined out a few other countries potentially, you know, emulating that. How, I guess, vital do you think that is to see Bitcoin hit that exit velocity?**

**Yeah, there's two things for me that are absolute and utter game changers going into next year. Number one is the SBR is all lined out. Number two, it really depends on whether MSTR can scale the debt markets the way that Michael Saylor is pitching they can. Because if they go in and they go get another, let's say they already did 42 billion, right? So let's say they're going to get a hundred billion dollars of debt. That in essence puts a put in the market that's going to last a very, very long time on the price. And of course, MicroStrategy is buying up that Bitcoin. They're not buying up that Bitcoin to trade that Bitcoin or sell that Bitcoin, right? So whatever Bitcoin MicroStrategy has is, you know, guaranteed to be out of the market and not available for trading. So I think it really, those are my two game-changing moments. The $42 billion was unbelievable when they got that. And if they go back and, you know, he's already said he wants to pivot to a more broader bond market to raise that capital. So if he manages to do that, you got a hundred billion dollar put from Michael Saylor, you got a strategic national reserve from the US, Russia, everywhere else. Because remember, as soon as the US does it, everyone else has to, right? We just had the first time there was a young lady talking about, you know, a strategic national reserve in the European Union finally, right, recently. So all of it is, and those are the two game changers. Everything else is, you know, in my opinion, expected. And I think we see around the 200, $250,000 level. But if those two things happen, it's, you know, you're talking on ridiculous prices. By the way, that's a good point actually, is that it's not actually one SBR because once the American, you know, there's this saying that when America gets sick, the rest of the world catches a cold. So it's like once America does it, that's the entire G20 doing it. And Russia and China, right? So you get all them, all the top three most powerful countries in the world and the rest of the G20 following in quick succession. And it's just like, to me, I look at that and I think to myself, how the hell are these all countries with money printers? How do all the people with the fake money buying the hard money? How do they not drive up the price of the hard money in fake money terms? Because that's what you're really talking about. Like at the end of the day, one Bitcoin is one Bitcoin, but like we're talking about the fiat denominated value. So it's not hard for them to drive the fiat denominated value if they're all in a stacking competition with each other.**

**Yeah, and by the way, they're incentivized to do it because once they drive it up, they can borrow against it because they can put it on their treasury and start borrowing against it from the IMF and driving more debt in order to do things that they want to do. So all of this, it's just like what's happening with MicroStrategy except on a national scale. That's what you're looking at, right? Like it's like the US is basically MicroStrategy except it's its own bond market and can decide however much money it wants to give itself. And when that happens, and then you got China, Russia, and everyone else jumping on the bandwagon, look, you know, the EU is a bit of a joke, but as a block, as a trading block, it's pretty powerful in terms of how much capital it can drive. So imagine you've got the United States, the EU, Russia, and China all vying for Bitcoin. You know, we can all get together and snap some more [ __ ] spaghetti at that point.**

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**Alright, back to the show. I know a million dollars seems like a really high price, and it is, right? But it's certainly not Bitcoin's end state. That's not the ultimate price for Bitcoin. Bitcoin's going higher than a million dollars into the future, and we're only 10x away from a million. We do 10xs in Bitcoin all the [ __ ] time. That's something that Bitcoin is known for. It's a cute little thing we do. You know, it's like in 2017 we did a 20x in a single year. And yeah, it was sporadic the whole way up. It's not like it went just straight up every month. So like plan for the journey to be volatile. It's kind of like Saylor's been saying: volatility is vitality. But to think to yourself that Bitcoin can't do a 10x, I think is asinine. Now maybe you're listening to me and British and you're like, "These [ __ ] Moon boys, [ __ ] them. What do they know? You know what I mean? This is opium. They're high on their own supply," you know, blah blah blah. But I was listening to this interview with Peter Thiel recently on Piers Morgan's show, and Piers Morgan asked Peter Thiel, "Why did you sell Facebook stock too early?" Because you cost yourself two or three billion dollars by doing that. And Thiel's answer was that he had correctly envisioned that Facebook stock would go from, you know, a billion to 10 billion to 100 billion, but that he had a mental error, mental block where he didn't think it would be easy to go from 100 billion to a trillion. And actually, that was the easiest part of the journey. And when we talk about compounded returns, all of the returns come at the very end. So if you are bearish on Bitcoin, you think Bitcoin can only go to 200k, only go to 300k, only go to a million, only go to two million, whatever, you're going to end up leaving the vast majority of your gains on the table because the vast majority of your gains are going to come at the end if you're a long-term HODLer. So like, yeah, sure, the gains have been good up until now, but in nominal terms, you're going to have the same gains in percentage terms with higher, you know, numbers in nominal terms. And so all of the money is going to be flowing to you at the very end. And if you fade that trade, you're going to end up [ __ ] yourself and your family's lineage. So it's very important that you are correctly and appropriately bullish. The two big sins in Bitcoin: number one, not being bullish enough on Bitcoin; number two, being too bullish on Bitcoin. And being too bullish on Bitcoin usually looks like taking leverage because then you end up [ __ ] blowing yourself up, and you don't get to make it to the promised land. But either one is not going to allow you to get to the promised land. If you're not bullish enough, you don't get there. If you're too bullish, you don't get there. So stay in the pocket, HODL your Bitcoin. If you want to do stuff like MSTR, do a little bit of it. Like my waiting of MSTR to Bitcoin is 80/20. Like I'm 80% Bitcoin, 20% MSTR, and then MSTR is all in retirement vehicles, which I can't easily go to cash and buy Bitcoin with, right? And so for me, that makes a lot of sense. You got to do what makes sense for you. But the key thing is to have your core Bitcoin position and to hold it for a long time into the future and be appropriately bullish on where this thing goes because this thing is going to the hundreds of millions of dollar range.**

**Yeah, so to put that into like imaginable perspective, the entire world's real estate market is $350 trillion. A $1 million Bitcoin is a $20 trillion market. Think about that. That's it. So a $1 million Bitcoin is like that's when Bitcoin's getting started as its use value in the space. And as we've seen, it's accelerating past the growth of all of these other assets because Wall Street's identified Bitcoin as an asset that they can scale without having any social cost, without having any of these things that they had to worry about with real estate, even equities to a certain extent because people have jobs and all these other [ __ ] in these companies. Whereas with Bitcoin, you can just put your foot to the accelerator, put as much money as you want, shove it all in there. Property prices can come down, your government can continue to get elected, there's no chance of revolutions, etc., etc. So they're about to turn the jets on Bitcoin totally.**

**Well, let's talk... Oh, go ahead, sorry, go ahead. No, I was just going to say, British, on the real estate point, I think it was Peter Schiff was on Twitter the other day being like, "You know, Bitcoin's not like..." or he was mad that Michael Saylor kept analogizing Bitcoin to Manhattan real estate. And he's like, "Bitcoin's not at all like real estate. It doesn't have cash flows. It's not productive, blah blah blah blah blah." And I think it was Punter Jeff came in and was like, "Yeah, you know what else Bitcoin doesn't have? It doesn't have [ __ ] hurricane disaster insurance. It doesn't have decay. It doesn't have unruly tenants. It doesn't have property destruction. It doesn't get termites." You know what I mean? It's like real estate is a shitcoin. We're all used to living in a world where real estate is highly valued. What was the number you said? 300 trillion? 350 trillion? 350? Yeah, that's [ __ ]... There's no way in hell it should be 350 trillion. That is grossly mispriced. And it's mispriced because we have an ineffective store of value in the form of fiat currency. And so because fiat currencies on average are going up 14% per year in terms of total supply, people have been getting devalued to [ __ ] and the average person doesn't know what to do about it. So they put their money into real estate. And, you know, during the 20th century, that was a good thing to do, right? A lot of people's families did that. They got rich on it. But now the appropriate thing to do is to put your money into Bitcoin going forward because Bitcoin is going to demonetize some portion of the real estate market. Because think about it, I mean, if you're a millennial first-time home buyer in America or in Canada or in the UK or Australia, whatever, these are all extremely expensive home markets with multi-million dollar price tags on almost any property that you would consider, like you would deem worthy of your family living in, right? So you got a one to two million price tag on even the most basic properties in almost all of these countries. Does that sound right to anybody? In my brain, real estate is a consumable, and I have no idea why we're using it to store value. Why are people storing value in plaster wall? And I mean, in America especially, like our homes are built of cardboard and sticks. Like why do we value cardboard and sticks at a million dollars and Bitcoin is valued only at $100,000? Does that make any sense? No. So yes, Bitcoin can do these things like demonetize large swaths of the real estate market. Should the real estate market be worth 350? No, it should be worth like, I don't know, 50. Let's get 300 trillion out of the real estate market and into Bitcoin. That would make a lot more sense. And a lot of the real estate market is just people looking to store value or do capital flight out of countries like China, etc. So when you hear these numbers and you think they're big numbers, I think British's point stands, which is like there are big numbers in the world. The numbers are only growing larger, by the way. Like by the time Bitcoin gets to where it's going, you know, there's going to be quadrillions of wealth in the world. And so as these numbers grow, they're continually inflating, and Bitcoin is demonetizing. You have this sort of one, it goes one direction, the other one goes the other direction, and Bitcoin rises and ascends. And if you don't have Bitcoin, you're not going to make that money. So get your [ __ ] head screwed on right and HODL a majority of your wealth in Bitcoin. Like it's that simple.**

**And by the way, next time that [ __ ] wants to talk about Bitcoin not having cash flow, I'm happy to show him my IBIT and MSTR positions that are cash flowing 8 to 12% a month right now because of the options market. Well, let's talk about MSTR. I mean, both of you guys got called out here on Twitter today about, you know, pumping MSTR and kind of like going through it there. I mean, I don't know if we want to bring up this tweet here, but American, you brought it up here earlier. But for those who are just listening to the audio, it says, "Those who bought the top during the MSTR mania when favors from MSTR whales were called in, people like American HODL and British HODL to promote the stonk publicly and get the exit liquidity flowing are now down 40% versus just buying Bitcoin in less than a month." So you guys are both, I mean, obviously, you know, MSTR bulls, but you know, also like major Bitcoin bulls as well. So let’s dive into Michael Saylor and defend yourselves.**

**Here's the thing, boys. Listen, man, they needed help from both HODLs across the pond. You know, that's how much shilling needed to be done, and we answered the call. We were ready and willing to do it. If it wasn't for me and you, they would not have got that $42 billion that they... I said yes. I said, "Oh, hello, Michael Saylor's assistant, hold please. I'm busy at the moment." But then when I got on the phone with him, he was like, "Hey, listen, HODL, need you to shill this [ __ ] hard as [ __ ]." And I was like, "I will. Yeah, don't even have to pay me. I'll do it for free for the love of the game." That's why I did it. No, I was... I responded back to that post, by the way. I like Stosur. He's a good troll. I responded back to that. I was like, "The problem with this theory you have is that I also bought the local top." Yeah, I'm just a [ __ ] moon boy who realized I couldn't... I was going through this period where I couldn't sleep because I kept thinking about MSTR. And because I had been holding MSTR for a couple of years at this point, or since 2020, so four years I had been holding MSTR, not really knowing what I was holding. I kind of bought it just like symbolically or like for Bitcoin exposure, just like, "Hey, yeah, I support a company that's doing Bitcoin." And then my wife had a 401k that I couldn't get access to, like, "Let me buy GBTC." So I just was like, "[ __ ] it, I'll just YOLO it into MSTR." And then I looked, and my... because I hadn't really been paying attention, I looked at my MSTR position was up like 6X in Bitcoin terms, and I was like, "What's happening with this? This doesn't make any sense." And so I started doing the research, and I was listening to a lot of the MSTR true north guys and British's stuff, who's been putting out really good content on MSTR, and he's been ahead on this too. And I just basically like orange-pilled myself on MSTR and was like, "Holy [ __ ]! MSTR is going so much higher because they're basically like transmuting Bitcoin energy and giving the markets like safer Bitcoin returns that have lower yield and pocketing the difference." Right? And once you like understand, you know, that the dilution in their share offerings are accretive in Bitcoin terms, you can start to be like, "This thing is going to go a lot higher." And like, will MicroStrategy have their hands on... Because I used to think MicroStrategy wasn't going to get much beyond like 250,000 Bitcoin or something, like maybe 1% of the Bitcoin supply. And then I started to look at their, you know, this $42 billion debt offering and the, you know, their continued debt offerings that they're going to do into the future, and I was like, "No, no, dude! Like they're going to end up having 2 million Bitcoin or more. They might have 10% of the Bitcoin supply," which is just absolutely crazy. So do you want to fade a company like that? I personally don't. I want to own a company like that for the long term. And I think MSTR is going to perform well over the long term, and I do think the premium is going to expand. It's been contracting during this period of share dilution, but I think medium to long term we see an expansion in premium because if you look at something like Berkshire Hathaway, they're valued at like, you know, 11x or 12x their PE, and you know, we could see something equivalent to that on MicroStrategy if they continue to be, you know, the sort of leader in these debt offerings, these Bitcoin-denominated debt offerings. So yeah, that's where I'm at on it. I just commented on that post. You might want to refresh it; you'll see my comment. But, um, so look, MSTR, I was, you know, going into the... I've owned MSTR since the first day they started trading after announcing a treasury. I scaled down my position in January because I was of the belief that MSTR is basically a Bitcoin ETF. And then was... There it is! Yeah, yeah, electric! Yeah, it says, "Me and American HODL are about to make you famous." He's already famous, bro. That's a famous Bitcoin bro. Okay, within Bitcoin, he's famous within like the walls of PubKey. He's a legend. That's the only place it matters to be famous, by the way. So, you know, I was wrong about it. I started downsizing my position in January of the year as the ETFs were coming out. I was right, very right for about three weeks, and then I was aggressively wrong for a few months. And then I started re-evaluating what it was and reading and understanding what they're doing and realized that there's just capital in the world that can't get access to the underlying spot asset, and they want Bitcoin. Why do they want Bitcoin? It's not for the Bitcoin; they want it for the volatility that Bitcoin can generate, and they want to trade that volatility. Soon as I understood that, it was like, "Okay, well, I [ __ ] this up, and I need to regain back, you know, as much of this position as I can." And so I started doing that. Luckily, I had taken that money and put it into more Bitcoin, which allowed me to recapture a large portion of the position that I had. So yeah, MSTR is a very, very unique thing. It is a securitized form of Bitcoin, and it basically, their job is to take dollars and turn it into tradable volatility, and that tradable volatility is backed up by the amount of Bitcoin that they have. So if Bitcoin is generating a 60 implied volatility, MSTR should be generating a 120 implied volatility, and all these bondholders want that because they've never seen anything like that. So they want to buy the bonds that MSTR will give them as much as they want at a 0% interest rate, completely unsecured, because within a year, they're bringing back all of their money by just trading the gamma on the bonds that they're buying. So it is a completely self-fulfilling trade. A lot of people are trying to say, "You know, what happens if there's other competitors in the space like Semler and all this other stuff?" You got to realize the bond market is a $300 trillion market, right? There's a lot to go here before any of this is saturated. So the more, the more, the better. And one of the things that tweet I put out today was what we really need now is an ETF for all of these Bitcoin treasury companies. Any company that puts Bitcoin on the balance sheet and organizes its debt to go and buy more Bitcoin, there should be an ETF on that already. I don't know why some of these guys haven't done it, some of these up-and-coming ETF companies. So hopefully that comes out too. And this, you know, again, Bitcoin is the first asset where MSTR goes and buys Bitcoin. It helps Bitcoin. You go and buy Bitcoin, it helps MSTR. IBIT goes and, you know, promotes IBIT to a pension fund. They buy IBIT, it helps MSTR, it helps Bitcoin, it helps you. And I think nation states go and buy Bitcoin. It helps the nation state, it helps me, it helps MSTR, it helps everyone because we're all holding the underlying assets, the same asset. So then you start having this flywheel effect, and the more the volatility gets bigger and bigger, the more MSTR can borrow, etc., etc. So this isn't stopping for a while. I mean, they've got, you know, $11 billion of debt right now in a $300 trillion market. There's a long way to go on MSTR. By the way, the framing for these companies I think that I like to use internally when I think about this is I think of these companies as debt miners, right? That's in fact what they are. If you think about it, like exchanges have a weird business where they sell Bitcoin, the scarcest, hardest money the universe has ever created. So like, you know, they're making a small amount on the spread and on the fees for selling you the Bitcoin, and that's been a popular business up to this point. But you look at a company like Coinbase and you think, how many Bitcoin wash through Coinbase and how many does Coinbase have on its balance sheet? Like not very many. So it's kind of like a [ __ ] up actually to be an exchange. And then you look at miners, who are a business that mine pristine Bitcoin, KYC-free, pristine Bitcoin from out of, you know, from out of Bitcoin's womb. They come directly to them, right? And then they have to sell them to cover their OPEX, right? And so, you know, there are now some miners that are beginning to hold more Bitcoin exposure on their balance sheet, and fundamentally Bitcoin miners have been long for a long time, and exchanges, I don't know, more Bitcoin neutral, especially if you look at Coinbase, for instance. I think they're longer on Ethereum because of the personal holdings of the founders. But these debt miners is a way to think about them, like MicroStrategy, are companies that just buy the Bitcoin. They take leverage, and then they buy the Bitcoin, and they can access leverage in the institutional credit markets that me and you, the individual, just don't have access to. And so the leverage is very smart, very intelligent, and more importantly, it's further out than the average Bitcoin cycle. And so if you can get leverage further out than the average Bitcoin cycle, you can maintain your composure during these drawdowns, right? Because you don't have to pay back your leverage yet. So that's just a phenomenal business, and I don't think the world has woken up to the reality of what these debt miners do. But anyway, you can take Bitcoin and, or any way you can take fiat-denominated debt and buy Bitcoin with it, and you can get good terms on that debt, that's a winning strategy. It's been a winning strategy for individuals. It's now a winning strategy for corporates, and I think soon it'll be a winning strategy for nation states as well, like British was alluding to earlier. One of the most crooked industries, most fiat industries there is, is the health insurance industry. Let's be honest, you don't even need health insurance if you could find somebody that would help you find awesome doctors, negotiate your bills, and fund those bills through a peer-to-peer funding platform. Would you take it? That sounds pretty appealing to me. And that's why I've joined forces with Crowd Health. Crowd Health is a place that you can do that all in one giant place. You can have a group of peers where they will help you find the best health care that you need. On top of all that, I can help get you a discount to get you on your feet and get everything started. You can use promo code GREEN CANDLE for three months at $99. And with all of this, you will get the health care you need. You don't have to worry about going through to the doctor, negotiating everything like that. Did you, your deductible? Did you not? Is this insurance company going to cover this claim? Is it not? You don't have to worry about any of that stress, and you can just get Crowd Health behind you where they can help you get the number one place to have a health insurance alternative. Join the revolution. Go to joincrowdhealth.com, tell them that Green Candle sent you, and join me and the rest of the great Crowd Health users in this peer-to-peer funding platform. Alright, enough for me. Let's get back to the show.**

**Yeah, and when you look at it, like when you look at the terms of that debt, right? Number one, it's completely unsecured. So there is no margin call number that Bitcoin can go down to where that debt can be called. Secondly, the blended interest rates that they're paying is sub half a percent at this point because they're getting some of the new debt at 0%. Think about that. Imagine if you could borrow money against your home at a 0% interest rate with no margin call on when you hit negative equity, and you can just buy Bitcoin with it, and an unlimited amount, and your house is worth, you know, let's say a million dollars, and they're happy to give you a million dollars of credit against that. That's what MicroStrategy has here, and nobody else can do it. And now being added into the NASDAQ, they've actually got a better credit rating now because the NASDAQ's standing behind them. So now they'll actually get even more favorable terms. I don't know how much more favorable you can get. Maybe they'll come over and give Michael Saylor a massage every [ __ ] week. But this just only gets better for MicroStrategy. So the question is, do you think that there is any securitized, there is any value to a securitized form of Bitcoin that is, you know, basically increasing the volatility of the underlying asset by 2x? I think the answer is yes. Yeah, so then how high and how high does this thing go? How high does MSTR go? How much Bitcoin is it, you know, is it dependent on how much debt they could essentially scoop up? Because Michael Saylor keeps getting billions and billions of dollars more worth of debt to keep scooping it up, it seems like weekly now. So how high, how much can he scoop up at this point?**

**Well, they've been selling down stock right now, which is, you know, problematic for the average person that's buying deep out of the money two-week call options, short-term calls. Yeah, yeah. But basically, they've been given permission to sell $21 billion worth of stock. He said it was going to take three years to do it, and he's done it in three months, right? I think they're on to the last $7.7 billion. So, and I based on his Bloomberg interviews, it looks like they're going to pivot from that and focus more on the debt markets coming up in the next ones, which is good, right? So how much? My price target MSTR, I put it out there, is $35,000 a share at the current dilution levels. And what's the implied Bitcoin price, British? A million dollars. A million, yeah. So, alright then, $35k MSTR. I'm bearish because if you take Saylor's own calculations when he said it's going to get to $13 million or grow at 29%, if you just grow that, his estimation last time I checked was like $90,000 a share. Yeah, work out. Sheesh. And that's in like a 10-year time period, is that correct? Yeah, I mean, that's what it would turn out to. I think he said, when did he say it gets to $13 million a coin? Like 2045 or something like that? 2045. Well, he has a base case and a bull case. The bear case, I believe, is $3 million by 2045. The base case is $13 million by 2045, and the bull case is $49 million by... which, by the way, did he just round down $1 million to make it seem more reasonable? Because that's hilarious. I think he did. I think he did. I think those numbers are roughly similar to my own napkin math calculation that I did 10 years ago. And, you know, we're halfway there. So I was thinking about this the other day. Like when we hit $100k, we're like, we're kind of at the halfway mark in terms of Bitcoin taking over the world, you know? And if you can't see what's going on by the halfway mark, like if you didn't know that the iPhone was the most important, you know, invention of the last like 25 years in 2013, you're just an idiot. You know, I don't know who couldn't have seen it by then. You should have known it long before then. But it's similar with Bitcoin. If you can't see that Bitcoin is going into the, you know, seven, eight-figure range, nine-figure range by, you know, the 2040s at minimum, then you're just a [ __ ]. There's really nothing like your opinion is worthless, and we don't really need to listen to you any longer. You know, by the way, for my personal price target on MSTR, I think MSTR is going between $3,500 and $5,000 next year. So that's what I think is going to happen at the current stock dilution, right? No, this includes future dilution. Oh, alright, there we go. It might include, but he's not talking about with splits. So you got to be aware that split-adjusted, yeah, it's split-adjusted. That's different. So if it's like we get a 10 to 1 or whatever, then lower my prediction by 10x. Well then, alright, so from a prediction standpoint then, we've already seen Amazon kind of hint at it. Obviously, Microsoft didn't vote no against Bitcoin putting Bitcoin on the balance sheet. Now, how many more companies do you think we're going to see come on and be, you know, a MicroStrategy copycat, so to speak? There's allegedly 110 last I saw with some random Forbes article. So do you guys think that it's just going to become kind of like, yeah, the US was one, but now that MSTR is in the NASDAQ 100 and, you know, obviously in the S&P 500 as well, that there's going to be more of these copycats coming along, and it's just going to be an arms race to scoop up Bitcoin and put it on companies' balance sheets as well?**

**Yeah, I mean, yes, I do think there's going to be a lot of MSTR copycats. And the reason why is because with this like FASB rule change that's coming up in Q1 of this year, you're going to be able to show all your Bitcoin appreciation as earnings, right? And so when you can do that, you can take basically any company, and it's like putting lipstick on a pig, right? You can make your shitty company that's been hemorrhaging money for years and years look like it's doing [ __ ] amazing, and then hopefully you can draw in analysts and hedge funds, etc., and pensions to buy your stock, right? So like, yeah, there's going to be a lot of copycats. Some of them will be absolute, you know, shitcoins who are going to mismanage their treasury in all sorts of dilutive ways. So there will be like deep diligence you'll have to do as an investor on each individual company. And I think in this regard, MicroStrategy is the gold standard. But if you wanted to just buy all of them in a basket, like, you know, to British's idea of doing the ETF, that's a basket of MicroStrategy copycats. If you wanted to put your own basket together because no ETF product exists, you'd probably do well because some of them will fall out, some of them will gain in favor, and over, you know, you should probably be overweight MicroStrategy in your personal ETF if you're going to do that. But I think in general, yeah, this concept is a big idea. It's a totally new way to think about earnings and price-to-earnings ratios. And so we are going to see a big shift over the next like year, two, three, four, five. So it's going to take a while for this idea to permeate Wall Street. But yeah, personally, I think that you're going to see a ton of MSTR copycats, but MSTR will be the biggest gorilla. There is not going to be a bigger company that's valued more than MSTR today that's going to be bigger than MSTR when it comes to their Bitcoin holdings. It is done. MSTR has a first-mover advantage. That's why you want to own the one that has the first-mover advantage. To me, there is no way anyone else can catch up with it. Why? Because they cannot shut off their main business. Microsoft would have to shut off their main business to buy that amount of Bitcoin. And by the way, while they buy that amount of Bitcoin, it increases the value of MSTR because they're buying the same asset. So I think MSTR is the one and done as far as the biggest one in the biggest gorilla in the cage. And there's not going to be a Microsoft or someone like that that comes in to compete with MSTR because they're just... These are very, very strategic businesses, very important businesses that you cannot just turn off. So that's what I think is going to happen. I think MSTR has won this by a mile. Now you just got to drag along with MSTR's rocket ship.**

**Yeah, and I think it's definitely taken off. But, you know, I've got another question for you guys. So both of you guys have kind of made a name for how much Bitcoin you should get to, you should strive to get to in order to, you know, tire reach a stacking goal. American, you are at 6.15, and British, you were at... You were at 1 Bitcoin, just 6.15. Just 6.15, excuse me, my bad. So that's on me, that's on the host here, but 1 Bitcoin. Alright, so where do you guys think that we should be getting to? Because, you know, if we're talking about potentially $1 million a coin, that's a hefty chunk of change here. So how much Bitcoin do we need to reach that stacking goal?**

**Well, you want to retire like a peasant or you want to retire like someone that has some money? That's the question, really. Well, I mean, I think the obvious answer there is you want to retire as somebody like has some money, right? Yeah, there's, in the FIRE community, which is a pretty cringe community, by the way, but in the FIRE community, they call it lean FIRE. Regular FIRE, FIRE community, fat FIRE. FIRE is an acronym that stands for financially independent, retired early. And basically, it's a bunch of tech workers. You can find it on Reddit, r-FIRE. It's a bunch of tech workers mainly who are, you know, saying, "Hey, instead of investing 10% of my salary over the next 30 years, I'm going to invest 75% of my salary over the next 10 years, and then I'm going to retire in my late 30s, early 40s." Right? Well, yeah, there was a post going around where a guy was like, you know, getting high and playing video games on the FIRE subreddit, and his wife walked in and was like, "You're a [ __ ] loser." And he was like, "I'm a millionaire." She was like, "No, you're a [ __ ] loser." And you know what? The wife was right, right? So like a lot of the FIRE guys have that kind of mentality, and I think the big problem with their ideology is that they're basically stacking SATs, but they're stacking it into the wrong store of value. They're stacking it into equities, which is a good store of value, don't get me wrong, but it's nothing compared to Bitcoin as a store of value. You know, it's a better store of value than bonds. It's a better store of value than real estate, but it's nothing compared to Bitcoin as a store of value. So in general, like I think back when I said 6.15, that was a stretch goal at the time. So when I started talking about it, that cost about $30,000, right? And it was a stretch to get to that number because, you know, how many people have $30,000 extra dollars lying around? Like that's a hard number to get to. But, you know, it was like that was the point of the meme was like challenge yourself, see how much you can do. Because back then, people were saying, "Hey, get to one or two Bitcoin," right? And I was like, "Dude, because the price was like $3,500." And I was like, "That's just not enough." Bitcoin has been risked, you know what I mean? Like you don't really... One or two is just not going to do it for you at that time, right? So I was encouraging people to get to 6.15. But now that's like $600,000, you know? So that's a lot of money. The average person does not have... Even rich people don't have $600,000 in cash. The average rich person doesn't have... There's a lot of people driving around in the nicest car at the parking lot, and they don't have $600,000 in cash, right? So like 6.15 is not the goal anymore. I think for right now, like British's goal of one Bitcoin is still like a very strong and worthwhile goal because if you think about it, like I was telling people to buy $30,000 worth of Bitcoin in 2018, okay? So we're six years beyond that, and we are significantly de-risked in real terms, right? So like we now have the SBR, we now have Black Rock talking about it, we now have ETFs, we now have the financialization of Bitcoin, we have MicroStrategy running a corporate debt mining strategy, we have all these things, these things we didn't have six years ago. And so I think it's reasonable to tell people like, "No, instead of thinking about it in terms of going down as for your stacking goal, you now have to put more fiat into Bitcoin for your stacking goal." So I think one Bitcoin is still a reasonable stacking goal at this moment in time. December of 2024, when you play this video in a year, it will no longer be a reasonable stacking goal, and it'll be incumbent, I think, on somebody else to set the new goal because like what happened to me is I lost touch with the psychology of the market with the average stacker. And I think British is also going to lose touch with that psychology as well as he goes forward. So someone else will set the new goal, and it'll be reasonable, and I hope they set it high because you need to be striving in life. Don't think to yourself like, "Hey, I'm just going to put five grand into this thing." Like, no, it's been de-risked, man. You're going to have to do a little more, you know? But they're not, though, right? Because I've seen these, and I've said I'm not changing my number. Get to one or die trying, basically. But I've seen some of these morons now on YouTube that are now telling people it's completely okay, you know, like one of those, like I imagine what the FIRE people are talking about, like your life is okay if you make $3,000 a month. Everything is fine. You're going to be fine. And then now telling people to get to 0.1 Bitcoin, 0.2 Bitcoin, and that's just weak, right? Let's just admit it. That's just [ __ ] weak. You need to, you know, get your [ __ ] together, get aligned, understand that this is now a safer investment than when HODL bought in. It is now a safer investment than what I bought in, and we put a [ __ ] ton of capital into it. So you should be aiming to put more capital into it now compared because of how safe it is, right? So yeah, I don't agree with the weakness that's coming, but I guess that's the [ __ ] generation that we live in now. They're all talking about 0.1 Bitcoin. You're going to be absolutely fine. Get [ __ ] out of here. I think it all goes back to this point of not being bullish enough on Bitcoin, right? Because I am of the belief that Bitcoin is going to the nine-figure range. I think it's going to $100 million a coin, okay? So like most people are not of that belief, but most people are wrong. I'm right, you know? And it's like if you're not bullish on Bitcoin, then you are going to underestimate it, and you're going to end up with less capital. Like so if you got, let's say I'm right, right? And Bitcoin goes to $100 million a coin. If you have $110,000 right now to invest in Bitcoin, you will have $10 million in 25 years or 30 years, however long it takes. But you know, that's a [ __ ] phenomenal return. Is it as good as the returns that the guys in the earliest days got? No, but it's still a phenomenal return. It's a THX return over 30 years. That's not common in the marketplace, right? So I think that, you know, you need to be appropriately bullish on where this can go, not delusionally bullish, appropriately bullish. Like I keep saying, irresponsibly bullish, right? Not irresponsibly long. Don't do short-term call options. You know you're going to get [ __ ] wrecked. The irresponsibly long guys on MSTR have been just, you know, every day the salt on that page, it's amazing. What's funny about it is it's going to go away on January 1 because all the options will expire, so all those guys will just leave the community because they will have blown themselves up. And yeah, that's another thing that you don't want to do. You want to make sure that you're not taking too much leverage where you blow yourself up along the way because at the end of this whole story, it's a war of attrition. You know, you're going to win with Bitcoin by just simply outlasting other people. That's how you're going to make it. So get whatever amount of Bitcoin you can get your hands on right now, and then do a little more, and then do a little more, and then do a little more, and dollar-cost average. And like literally, like sometimes I see on Twitter, leftists mainly say things like, "Oh yeah, you can't get rich by not buying avocado toast or coffees," whatever. And it's like, actually, in Bitcoin, you can. If you would have like every time you wanted an avocado toast or a coffee or a $20 burrito over the last 10 years, if you would have put that into Bitcoin, right now you would be worth $100 million, okay? So it's like, yeah, simple changes to your lifestyle can meaningfully impact your future expected value and future net worth. So do what you can where you are with what you have available to you. Don't try and overcomplicate it. Just do what you can. Start now. How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. You know what I mean? The journey of a thousand miles starts with the first step. Like just do it. Just start. The problem with saving up until now is that there hasn't been this growth engine, right? And that growth engine, this is Michael Saylor had the same issue with MicroStrategy. He had this income generation tool, but he had no growth engine behind it, and the business was not the growth engine that he wanted it to be. And then he found Bitcoin, and that turned into the growth engine. So anyone who's saving, if you're not buying a Starbucks coffee and keeping it in dollars, you're going to be [ __ ] if you're not buying Starbucks coffee but putting it into Bitcoin, you're going to be a hero. It's just as simple as that.**

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**And I think that that's where, you know, Bitcoiners are, you know, I guess pretty similarly aligned, right? I mean, it's like the greatest technology, a great savings technology that there is, right? But, you know, American, I see that, you know, you have this tweet here, so you maybe about your $50 million Bitcoin price prediction because you said, here, I'll pull it up here so for everybody to see it. So I'm doing my own research here. I know I messed up on the 6.15, but I got the pin tweet research here. So kind of surface level. But anyway, in 2024, you're telling everybody that Bitcoin is going to $50 million a coin, but now you're saying you think $100 million a coin?**

**Yeah, the only reason I picked 50 there is because if you do the math between, you know, $200 and $100,000, that's a 500x. So I feel like my track record confidently indicates that I can call a 500x. So yeah, I'm calling for 50 million. I actually think it's going beyond that, but I wasn't... This was me being reasonable, by the way. This was humble, reasonable HODL taking a humble, reasonable position and only saying 50 million. Okay? So like, I actually think we're going far beyond 50 million, you know, into the hundreds of millions range and potentially billions range and potentially trillions range. That only occurs if there's hyperinflation, though. But like we can get to $100 million a coin without hyperinflation. People really don't... People think the world's going to [ __ ] collapse for us to see a $10 million Bitcoin. Like nothing has to change. Nothing has to change, then you'd see a $10 million Bitcoin right now. Nothing. This is an important point here that, you know, people... I've been in Bitcoin for 10 years now, and in the beginning, in 2015, when I was talking with people, you know, other Bitcoiners online about this kind of thing, people would say things like, "Yeah, Bitcoin's going to $100,000 when a cheeseburger costs $10,000." You know, it'll buy you 10 cheeseburgers, right? And it's like, okay, well, we're at $100,000 right now, and a cheeseburger, last time I checked, is still like six bucks, seven bucks, okay? So like, no, that didn't happen. The hyperinflationary collapse of fiat currency, which we colloquially refer to as hyperbitcoinization, is not the only path for Bitcoin's monetization to occur. And I believe that we're seeing currently regular Bitcoinization play out, not hyperbitcoinization. And the way in which regular Bitcoinization works is it looks like nation states doing SPRs, corporates adopting Bitcoin, treasuries, debt mining, etc., etc. And so all the things that we're seeing now indicate that we're not going into hyperinflationary conditions, that we are going into just a regular monetization event for Bitcoin that's going to occur over a period of decades, right? And so in that world, everything else in the monetary universe, all other assets will continue to inflate. So if you buy equities, if you buy gold, if you buy bonds, like things are going to go up over time, right? But they're not going to go up as fast as Bitcoin. That's the point, is Bitcoin is the fastest horse in the race. It doesn't mean the other horses aren't fast and that they don't run well. It means that Bitcoin is the fastest horse. So if you are a rich person and you want to stay rich, you got to buy Bitcoin. If you're a poor person and you want to become rich, you got to buy Bitcoin. There's really no alternative world in which you don't own Bitcoin. It's just a question of like how much allocation do you have to Bitcoin? So if you're a multi-billionaire in today's world and you do a 10 or 20% allocation to Bitcoin, even less, you could do a 2 to 5% allocation to Bitcoin, and you would still be a multi-billionaire in the Bitcoin IED world, right? I think a lot of Bitcoiners get this wrong, and they, you know, hyperinflation is this religious adherence concept. It's like a rapture where all of the bad people we don't like are punished, and all of the good people go to Bitcoin heaven, and, you know, Peter Schiff drowns in a lake of eternal hellfire forever, right? But that's not the way that the world is actually going to work. And the people that you hate are going to have Bitcoin too, and they're going to have a lot of Bitcoin. And in some cases, like probably many cases, more than you. And it will only be the dumbest elites in our current society who fall by the wayside because they were so stuck in their position or they had their heels dug in so hard that they didn't understand that, you know, the Bitcoin crossover monetary event was happening, right? So yeah, the point here is Bitcoin is going to these sky-high multiples in the future, and it's going to do so by taking advantage of the monetary inflation that's occurring and by simultaneously demonetizing other assets. And if you believe that, then you believe that Bitcoin can go to $50 million, to $100 million, to a quadrillion, billion, you know, like it can go to whatever number. Like the numbers don't matter. People in Zim, there's a bunch of trillionaires in Zimbabwe who can't afford a [ __ ]. You know, I'll put you on the phone, though. I feel like one of the biggest problems in the Bitcoin space is that a lot of Bitcoiners, especially now that Bitcoin is being financialized, it's being securitized, a lot of Bitcoiners are showing themselves to just literally be gold bugs that found Bitcoin. And I was in the gold space, so I know exactly what those people are like. And I think it's time for Bitcoiners to pursue becoming smarter about how assets become financialized and how they become used and how they become applicable so that you don't miss, you know, the transition, for example, that MSTR is making, right? And I had to make this jump, so I'm not saying anyone's wrong for it, but you should focus on understanding the financialization and the securitization process of an asset. And by the way, anyone watching this, no one has ever seen an asset become securitized. This is the first time a brand new asset has been born, and it's being securitized. So this is new for everyone, right? And I think it's important that Bitcoiners don't just sit there with this is going to be, you know, we want this to be like gold and actually understand what the [ __ ] is going on here so you can try and stay ahead of the curve or at least profit from what's going on. So do you think the hyperbitcoinization, the hyperinflation in order to get hyperbitcoinization is overblown then in the Bitcoin space?**

**Yes, yes, yes, big time. It ain't happening. It's Bitcoin and the dollar. Well, listen, hyperbitcoinization could still occur. I'm not going to say it can't occur. But we've never, first of all, we've never had a fiat currency as the global reserve currency. So that's another thing that we've never experienced before. Like what British was talking about is true. We've never had a de novo, which means, you know, from nothing, out of nothing asset come onto the world stage and start to securitize itself and financialize itself. Never occurred in human history. And at the same time, we have a, you know, fiat currency that's the world reserve currency, which has never happened in human history. So we have two completely unprecedented things, and I don't know which, I don't know how it's going to occur. By the way, sorry, people keep texting me. Those beeps are [ __ ] annoying. I don't know how it's going to occur, but I do know that there's a potential for hyperbitcoinization, but I think it's a smaller, a much smaller potential than the community at large thinks it is. And I think the reason why we've been focused on hyperbitcoinization is because we've been correctly envisioning a world in which Bitcoin is the, you know, dominant store of value reserve asset. British texted me a B. Is the dominant store of value reserve asset on the planet, right? That's correct. Bitcoiners have been right about that. They are right that that will occur in the future. How far in the future, I'm not exactly sure. But the thing we were wrong about is we didn't spend enough time thinking about the way in which the world will Bitcoinize or the way in which Bitcoin will monetize, however you want to think about it. And we're seeing that now, and there are unique and unexpected surprises along that path. And I think MicroStrategy is one of them, one of the big ones. And certainly, it took me by surprise that you would have a corporate that was on the same level as nation states. But then when you start to think about it, you think to yourself, "Well, yeah, we have individuals that are on the same level as nation states: Satoshi, MicroStrategy, America, Russia, China. They're all on the same level now in Bitcoin terms. That's pretty wild. That's a totally new thing, and that is the full, you know, personification of the sovereign individual thesis that Bitcoiners have been talking about. It's just not expected. And I would tell Bitcoiners, like in general, myself included, is to not think about hyperbitcoinization or Bitcoinization, but only in the way I think it should occur, only in the way that makes sense in my moral framework. Because there are many other actors in the global economy who have different, you know, different mindsets than you do, and they're going to act in totally disparate and often confusing ways if you're a Bitcoiner because, you know, many of them don't have the Bitcoin lens by which to view the world that you do. So that's your superpower, and you can take advantage of them, and you can take advantage of the fiat world while it still exists, and you should do that.**

**H, let me ask you a question. When do you think the first bomb gets dropped from one country to another to secure Bitcoin assets? So you're saying like a Bitcoin country bombing another Bitcoin country? Well, it might be, but it would be a country bombing another country to secure that Bitcoin. We did it with oil. Why can't we do it with Bitcoin? It's more scarce than oil. I don't know because the problem with Bitcoin is how are you going to expatriate the Bitcoin or expropriate the Bitcoin when you nuke the person? Like, alright, let's say you nuke... You got to nuke him. All I'm saying is like when is the first military action taken to secure Bitcoin on behalf of a country? Like when does America take its first military action to secure another country's Bitcoin? I think here you get into the Jason Lowry software thesis, right? Hash war. And so, you know, yeah, there's going to be like a fourth-gen cyber war between nation states in terms of, you know, hashing. Like, okay, I would assume at this point, I think it's a safe assumption to make that like many Bitcoin core devs are compromised by nation states. I think that's probably something that should be in all of our mental models going forward. And I would also think that different miners could be compromised by nation states. Different popular Bitcoin figures could be, you know, British HODL could be working for MI6. Like, I think we should all, you know, have this in our mental model because the Bitcoin game is getting far more complicated than any of us anticipated when we were just, you know, nerds in the [ __ ] corner talking amongst ourselves about how Bitcoin was going to a trillion, quadrillion dollars, you know?**

**Yep, I agree. I think there is going to be a period where, you know, people... Bitcoiners seem to think like Bitcoin's going to end wars and all this other [ __ ]... No, there it is. It is a scarce resource. It is the scarcest resource humanity has ever seen, and there will be people going off it in one way or another. I do believe that human nature is undefeated and that there's no such thing as a utopia and that there can never be a utopia. And that the minute humans find themselves in the Garden of Eden, they will expel themselves just as quickly from it because it's uncomfortable for us. And so I do not think Bitcoin is going to create a utopian world, but I do believe it's going to create a better world, a more fair rules-based system of capitalism, which will lead to the formation of the sorts of things, you know, the sorts of corporations and nation states and technologies that will allow us to colonize space. So that's the thing I'm most excited about. Bitcoin, in a way, Bitcoin is not the thing. It's just the thing that gets us to the thing, and the thing is an intergalactic, you know, society on multiple planets.**

**Well, alright, so I'll leave you guys with this one last question. Where do you guys think is like the most wild prediction that you guys have for 2025 that you think not a lot of people are thinking about or, you know, aiming towards here for Bitcoin going forward in this next calendar year?**

Guys, that sounds extremely bullish to me. When we're only getting a 35% to a 50% drawdown instead of talking about mid-cycle, right? He's talking about mid or mid-year, which means that we can have a 50% drawdown and still end every year for the next decade.

That would be weird. It would be unusual for that to occur, you know? But not unusual for BlackRock, right? Or Bitcoin in general, right? A lot of crazy things happen here.

So, boys, you've been very generous with your time, and I appreciate you guys coming on. We had the Hoddle episode with both British and American coming on. So why don't you tell the guys where they could find you and what else you got going on?

Yeah, I don't give a [ __ ] if you follow me or not, so that's where I'm at with that.

All right, all right. Well, British H, do you want them to follow you, man?

Sure, I'll take them. Go to YouTube, type my name in, and find my face. You'll find me there.

There we go! I love it. We're really good at call-to-actions; both of us are really good at call-to-actions.

Yeah, and in fact, now that he doesn't want you to follow him, I want everyone to go find his Twitter and tweet at him, letting him know that you're actually following him against his wishes.

I'm here for SATs, not for clout. Clout is worth zero, okay? SATs are worth everything.

Yeah, but still, just tweet at American Huddle and let him know that you're following him against his wishes.

But yeah, I'll put all that in the show notes. Boys, thanks so much for coming back on the show.

Of course, please!

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