Transcription
So we're going to jump into a role play with Pete and Harrison. Pete is going to be the closer for a sales offer, so sales training, and Harrison is going to play the prospect.
Here we are going to break down the subtle nuances of the discovery of a sales call and show you the things that you need to be doing so you can close more sales.
So without any further ado, Pete, crack in with your opening question.
"Well, Harrison, see you hear me all right?"
"Yeah, can see you. How's it going?"
"Awesome, I'm doing fantastic. Yourself?"
"Doing good, doing good."
"Awesome, man. Where are you calling in from? Whereabouts?"
"I'm in Connecticut."
"Well, I know we got limited time today, so if you're ready, we can crack on into things."
"Yeah, let's do it."
"Awesome, man. Now I've got some notes here from the team. I don't want to assume anything, though, so we'll dive deep into what you got going on with sales, what you're looking to improve upon, if you need help with, and really get clarity on what you're looking to accomplish. So if we got alignment with that and what we got going on over here, we'll jump into all those details. Sound cool?"
"Yeah, sounds good."
"Awesome, man. So I took a look at the notes here, and I'm curious, like in your own opinion, what would you say is like the biggest challenge or area of improvement that you've got inside your sales conversations right now?"
"For me, I would say it's mainly in the discovery of it. I just don't feel like I'm really connecting enough with the prospect, and sometimes it just feels like the conversations are super surface level, and we're just kind of moving the ball. At the end, sometimes I get objections, sometimes they sign up, sometimes it might be a follow-up, but it just doesn't feel like I'm getting across to prospects as well as I could be."
"Understood. So conversations surface level leading to objections sounds like, you know, if you're getting objections, like we're both in sales, that's not a good thing, right? Give me an idea, like how many conversations are you having a week right now with prospects?"
"Right now, I have my calendar open, so I can take 40, Monday through Friday total."
"Yeah, Monday through Friday. Okay, understood. And we'll just do some numbers here. Like if we looked at last week, for example, how many appointments did you actually have last week specifically?"
"I had 38 appointments set on my calendar."
"And all showed up?"
"Not all of them. Of the 38, if I have it right, I would say 30 actually showed up."
"30, okay. And then out of those 30, how many deals did you close last week?"
"Last week specifically, I closed about six deals."
"About six? Or was it six?"
"Well, six, but the only reason I said about is, you know, I think three, if I remember right, three were PIFs and the other three were payment plans."
"Okay, understood. So closed six out of 30. Mhmm, okay, understood. The other 24, was that you getting objections or what actually happened in those?"
"Yeah, it's a mix. I've got objections. I don't want to say they were not qualified, but some of them really weren't qualified. Like they just didn't have the money, which I know it's technically more of an offer issue if that's the case. But it was really a mix between getting objections and/or unqualified leads. And there were a couple leads too that we just didn't even get to the pitch. It just felt like we just weren't connecting at all."
"Understood. So like out of the remaining 24, you be real with me, like how many of those do you actually feel were closable? Like you could have helped them, they had the money, they could have found it. Like how many do you feel you actually missed?"
"Confidently, I would say at least seven more. And I say confidently because that's kind of my thing. It feels like there are times that I just get this feeling that they either have money or that there's something that they're just not telling me, and I'm just not getting across to them. So I can confidently say that much, but I feel like it could even be more honestly."
"Understood. Well, each deal, like when you make a sale, and you know if it was like a PIF, for example, like how much commission do you make per deal?"
"For each deal, I'll make about 500 bucks a deal."
"Okay, and so at a minimum, you feel you lost seven last week?"
"Yeah."
"Okay, so what's seven times 500? That's like..."
"It's like 3500."
"Yeah, and like, you know, you can be real with me, man. There's no judgment. Don't inflate your numbers. Tell me your best week or anything, but like losing like seven deals a week, is that pretty average for you? Is that high or is that low?"
"I would say it's right around that mark. The only reason I might say lower is just show-up rates. Sometimes it's always going in and out, so it's different every week. But I would say seven is around the average."
"Okay, so that's like 14 grand a month. Hopefully, you see where I'm going with this. How many, unfortunately, how many months have you been missing out on that many deals for, would you say?"
"I'd say it's been, well, I'd say it's technically four. I just started about four months ago. So I mean, I don't know if you want to count the first two months since I kind of consider that kind of a training period, but yeah, four months total you could say."
"Okay, was this your first four months in sales or have you been in sales prior?"
"I was in sales prior. It's my first time just in the high-ticket space, though."
"Okay, understood. So I mean, you were still working those first two months taking sales calls, correct?"
"Yeah."
"Mhm. So four months, so that's more than half of a $100,000 in your first four months that like you've left on the table. Have you ever looked at it that way?"
"Honestly, no. I don't think I ever actually totaled it all together."
"Okay, well, you know, just pause. You're doing very, very, very well. You don't need to necessarily say, 'Have you ever looked at it that way?' It's a little bit, it's not leading in the phrasing. Like it's not a leading question in the phrasing, but it feels leading in terms of like you're trying to get the prospect to see your point of view. It would have been just much more powerful if you'd have just stopped after you said whatever the number was and then sat there in silence for a couple of seconds, watched his facial expression change, and then said, 'When you hear that number, how does that make you feel?' It's more you're the leader and you're challenging, and he's the, like, quote-unquote subordinate, as opposed to you're like, 'Hey man, can you see what I see?' It's too needy in the energy. Does that make sense?"
"Yeah, I've never thought about it like that. That makes sense, though."
"Yeah, just let him realize and feel like, 'Oh [ __ ]' from the questions that you're asking, which were perfect questions. Don't take all of your good questions and then kind of turn it upside down by then trying to be like, 'Can you see this? Can you see this? Can you see this?' They're like, 'Well, yeah, but now I feel like you're kind of trying to sell me.' You know what I mean? Like you were getting there very well just by asking questions. Let them then feel it."
"Okay, but good stuff thus far. So let's just say that we end on that. And okay, so that's like $56,000 over the past four months you not made that you feel you could have."
"Yeah."
"When you look at that number, how does it make you feel?"
"I mean, I don't think anyone would like to hear that they lost $56,000 in four months, or at least missed out on it when they could have. It sucks, and especially when you feel like you could have easily gotten that if you just said the right things."
"What specifically about that makes you say it sucks?"
"I mean, I'm in sales right now to make money, and the big thing is that this felt like my ticket to, you know, more quicker financial stability, financial independence, and being on my own time. But when I hear that, it's just like, how am I leaving so much on the table right now?"
"And then, you know, to get a gauge here, like in terms of like how much it like actually sucks, like because I don't want to assume anything, like scale of one to ten, ten being like, 'I'm at the point where like that's no longer acceptable to lose that much,' like it [ __ ] sucks, and one being like, 'I know I'm losing it, but I don't really care that much.' Like where would you say you're at scale of one to ten?"
"Me? I'd say I'm at like an eight right now. It's pretty high."
"Why an eight?"
"Well, I mean, it's just for me, it just feels like I've been working hard to learn these talk tracks. I'm opening up my calendar more, and it's just wide open opportunity. But it doesn't even feel like it's anything that should be complicated. It just seems like something so simple that I'm missing for some reason."
"What have you tried to do to connect the dots over the past four months?"
"Well, I mean, I would just, you know, my offer does some training, so I would train with them, which helps for sure. But their way of selling just doesn't necessarily click with me, and it just honestly just wasn't really a way that I really want to sell."
"Mhmm. And so for me, I guess it's just kind of in the back of my head. It's like, it's weird to say, but I kind of, I guess thinking about it, I'm kind of creating my own talk track in a sense and just doing it myself, figuring it out. It's just frustrating, honestly, and now it's just making me second guess myself as a salesperson."
"It is like you not making the sales that you feel like are open opportunity. What's frustrating? Or is it that like you've been trying to figure it out on your own and it's not working? That's frustrating, or is it both?"
"I'd say, I mean, I'd say it's both, but I mean, honestly, when you put it that way, I'd say it's more the fact that I'm just not figuring this out."
"Can I ask, like, have you gotten to the point where like you're no longer willing to lose that much opportunity and continue to try and figure it out on your own? Like have you gotten to that point?"
"Yeah, no, yeah, I have."
"Alright, alright, Pete, how did that feel?"
"It felt better."
"Well, that's exactly what you've been missing. It's that like that question, that moment, that change in the call. Like that was exactly what you needed to do, and I'm like, okay, Pete's got it. Okay, how did that feel for you, Harrison?"
"Honestly, that felt great because especially when you asked about the comparison between the money and me figuring it out myself, that felt like an aha moment to me where I'm like, 'Oh [ __ ] that's what's actually going on in a sense.'"
"Why?"
"And feel good, man. That felt good."
"Yeah, so thank you. Well done, well done, Pete. That's exactly what you want to do. Keep going, close the call."
"Okay, so we get to that point?"
"Yeah, I'm at that point."
"Understood. Why now?"
"Well, I mean, at this point, it's just..."
"Hang on, let's back up. It's good. You're doing the right thing. You need the why now, but the why now in that sense is not as powerful. It's not specific enough. So how would you take the why now and make it more specific? Still getting the why now, but being more specific, how would you do that?"
"I think my next question I would ask based on that, yeah, I'm at that point. Was there like a specific moment or anything that happened recently over these past couple of months where you said like enough's enough or why now?"
"Yeah, you're just going to get a much more grounded, committed response than just why now. Why now? I've said that so many times on a call, just why now? But you've got to have had the prospect telling you, 'I have gotten to the moment,' and then you would say why now. But if they're not telling you, they've got to get them to explain it. You have to get them to give credibility to it."
"So, okay, yeah, okay. Alright, go back a bit. So frustrated at this point?"
"Yeah, I'm at that point."
"Understood. You being at that point, like was there a signature moment or anything that happened more recently for you where you said like enough's enough or why now?"
"I think for me it was just..."
"Hang on, just you don't need to say the why now at the end of that question. Don't need to. No, just say, 'Was there a specific moment or anything that happened more recently where...' and tie it into the commitment that he said before, which you got him to say. So it's connecting the dots."
"So it's okay. So you know you said that you got into a moment now where you're no longer willing to lose that amount of money by trying to figure it out on your own. Was there a specific moment?"
"Give the context and ask it."
"Yeah, or you can do it the other way, but you need to connect those two things together."
"I could do it at the end. I could say, 'So was there a signature moment recently where trying to figure it out on your own, realizing that's not working and losing all of this money, you said, 'Okay, enough's enough with this?'"
"So long as I put the context into the question because that's how your, that's how your, what you used to call it to me is you're like an orchestrator. You're a conductor conducting this musical score. You're piecing all of the instruments together and timing them at the right time. It's like creating musical art. It's like, okay, he just told me he's no longer going to figure it out on his own and lose all this money, but I want to know when he got to that point and get him to dig into his own credibility of that thing."
"Basically after this, it depends how Harrison answers it, but you're pretty close to just the how much longer question really and you just wrap the whole thing up in a little present, put it under the Christmas tree and say, 'Santa's here, baby.'"
"Alright, alright, let me ask that. Try that question again then."
"So, okay, so you've gotten to the point now where like you're no longer willing to try and figure it out on your own and lose that much income. Was there like a signature moment or turning point for you over these past couple of months where you came to that realization?"
"I'd say it's hard to say a signature moment because for me it feels like I just keep looking at the leaderboards and just seeing the income that I'm at, and it's not where I want to be in the slightest bit because I got into this whole space to make more money. And so for me, it was just seeing where I'm at on the leaderboards right now and not getting to where I thought I would be at this point. That's pretty much why I'm on this call right now."
"One thing I want to understand is like with where you're at right now, you've mentioned it a few times of like you're not where you want to be. Like what is it about where you are that you're not okay with?"
"I mean, for me, I'm talking about for me the leaderboards where there's 10 closes on my team. I'm at number six, and you know, my old job, the corporate job when I did sales, I was doing great. I was top three there. And I guess you could say it's that competitive fire in me where it's like I'm not at that top leaderboard anymore. Not just simply making money, but you know, I feel like there's almost like this pride in a sense where it's like I'm able to figure this out. I'm not just going to go through the same old stuff that they're going to do, and I'm going to show them why this could not only help our closing percentage even further, but this is what kind of gets me up to the top in a sense."
"So it sounds like part of it is like the tangible losing tens of thousands of dollars that bothers you, but it also sounds like it's part of like how you view yourself as like you used to be a top performer and now you're not. Yeah, how does that sit with you?"
"It sucks. It's just, I mean, I know this might be selfish to say and everything, but I feel like I deserve to be at the top."
"Interesting. What makes you say deserve?"
"Well, I think I would, well, it's like I remember hearing a recording I was listening to of you, and somebody said deserve, and you dug into it."
"And so that's why I was doing it. I would dig into it, but I wouldn't dig into it playing into his belief because, I mean, let me ask you just an honest question, Pete. If Harrison, the prospect that he's being, actually deserved to be making the money that he's saying, would he not be making it?"
"Good point."
"So it's like, well, you don't deserve to be making it now. I wouldn't say it to the prospect in that way, but your questions need to be leading to the truth. So asking him like, 'Well, why do you feel like you deserve it?' is like now I'm just getting him to justify his own rationalization that he deserves something that he actually doesn't deserve. You need to serve the prospects. You need to help the... The better thing to do then instead of asking that, like, 'Why do you feel like you deserve it?' if that was the example would be, 'Okay, like do you think that like if you did deserve it, like you'd already be making that?' is better. Or I could just say, 'Why then if you feel you deserve it, has that not happened?' And then now he's having to question himself. He's like, 'Oh, I guess I don't deserve it. I guess I haven't done the work. I guess I haven't invested, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.' Like so you need to get them to realize the truth."
"Yeah, there's a bazillion ways I could say it. I could have said, 'Do you really feel you deserve it with what you have or haven't been doing thus far?' Actually, no, whatever I say, I have to be going towards the truth. Whereas where you went was against the truth. It was like, 'Okay, I believe what you're saying, prospect. You say you deserve it. Why do you feel you deserve it?' I need to lead him to the truth, which is, 'Well, if you say that you feel you deserve it, why hasn't that happened?' Then he's going to be like, 'Oh, actually, yeah.' And by the way, the prospect might say, 'I don't know,' and then you can get a little bit into coaching and say still as a question ideally, but you'd say, 'Do you feel that you have done everything you needed to do to actually deserve those results?' 'No.' 'Okay, what do you feel you haven't done? And do you feel you need to do those things now so that your deserved factor actually increases? And what do you think would happen to the reality that you're experiencing if you actually increase your deservedness of that extra money?' You see how I'm actually helping the prospect get to the truth?"
"Yeah, everything else was good thus far, so go back."
"Okay, appreciate you taking along, Harrison. Got you cool. So leaving off, what was the last thing that you said? Do you remember?"
"I'm blanking."
"For me, it was like I feel like I deserve to be at the top of the leaderboards."
"That's right. It was. Okay, okay. If you feel you deserve to be a top performer, why do you feel it hasn't happened yet?"
"Honestly, I feel like I just feel like the way I'm doing it may not be right. Like I know that I'm putting in the work, but I just don't think I'm putting in the right work or doing it the right way. So at this point, I'm like, okay, I don't know if I want to do it for my offer, but I know that there are other salespeople out there that are absolutely crushing it, which is why I'm interested in joining this program."
"Makes total sense. And if I can ask two really one last question on that, like you not doing it in a way that's allowing you to be a top performer, the way you'd like to be, like outside of being a top performer, curious if you thought about what does that cost you?"
"I mean, I know it's cost me money, but truth be told, I feel like more than anything, it just costs me confidence in myself."
"Can I ask then?"
"Go ahead."
"Yeah, I mean, just like it's just more doubt creeping in, and I'm just sick of it, honestly. That's the big thing."
"So how many more days or weeks or months do you want to have go by where you have this feeling of being sick of it, your confidence drops, and you are not making the money you could be making because you're not selling in a way that's actually going to get you those results? Like how much longer do you want to keep doing that?"
"Not another day. That's why I'm here."
"Understood. So walking me through then, what do you feel like you'd need to actually be able to close more deals?"
"That's a very big question."
"Like that was fine, but I wouldn't have actually connected it to closing more deals. I would have connected it to the doubting yourself."
"Yeah, because it was deeper."
"So I would have probably, that's my problem."
"Yeah, damn it."
"So I would have just been like, okay, so you not doing the things that you know you should be doing to deserve the results that you say you want has caused you to doubt yourself and to not have confidence as well as to be losing a bunch of money. Is that accurate?"
"Yes."
"So if not taking action on the things that you know would mean you deserve the results you want has created doubt inside yourself, what do you need to do so that you actually have confidence inside of yourself and you're doing the things that are going to make you deserve the money that you want to be making?"
"I'm leading him to the point of him going, 'Oh yeah, actually, I need to do the sales training,' which means I deserve the results, which means I have the confidence in myself. You need to lead him to what solves the problem, which is him moving from, and this is really deep as well, is like the real problem that this prospect had was I'm telling myself I deserve something without doing the actual things that mean I deserve it. That was this prospect's real lie that he's telling himself. 'Oh, I think I deserve blank.' Okay, awesome. So if you feel you deserve it, why hasn't it happened? Like that's almost where the conversation started as far as that's really the problem that we're solving. We needed to move this prospect from this rationalization and this [ __ ] of, 'I think I deserve blank results.' Well, no, because otherwise you'd have blank results. And helping him realize that and then getting to the point now of solving that misalignment in his mindset of, 'So if doing blank has resulted in blank, not doing the action has resulted in you not getting the results probably because you don't deserve it, what will mean that you do deserve the results and therefore do get the results?' Oh, I guess, Pete, I need to take action."
"Okay, you also would then tie that into the why us because that's the perfect segue into why us, and then I would hammer it all together and say, 'So let me ask you, man, how many more days are you willing to walk around telling yourself that you deserve the results that you know you don't actually deserve because you're not taking the actions on the things that would mean you deserve the results?'"
"Not another day."
"Okay, fine."
"Yeah, so you see I'm not selling him sales training. I'm not even selling him the $200,000 that he's losing. I'm selling him a new reality of taking action on the things that would actually mean you deserve what you say you want in life. I'm selling him you could, this higher-level mentality."
"Yeah, is that clear?"
"Makes total sense."
"Yeah, alright, jump back in and wrap that up from wherever you want to go."
"So let's just say that was like that, and let's just say we walked through that."
"Okay, I want to ask to get the point. Okay, so what was it about what you saw from us or Jeremy that made you say, 'I feel these are the guys that can actually help me get where I need to go?'"
"No, so that you're training."
"Go all the way back to when Harrison said, 'I feel like I deserve it.' Let's go from there. I want you to finish this call."
"Feel like I deserve it."
"Okay, well, can I ask, like if you feel you deserve it, deserve those results, why do you feel it hasn't happened yet?"
"It just feels like I'm, I honestly, I just think I'm doing it wrong. Like I know that I'm trying to do it kind of my own way, and at the same time, it just, I just don't feel like I'm doing it the right way. There's no other way to really explain it."
"Do you feel that if you continue trying to figure it out on your own that you're actually going to get there, or do you need to make a change?"
"I need to make a change because, yeah, at this point, I don't think I'd be able to figure it out on my own."
"That seemed really heavy. I noticed you just sighed there when you said you couldn't figure it out on your own."
"Yeah, I mean, because I think that's the first time I've really just admitted it to myself, and it sucks to even say that, you know? Like it's just, you want, I want to think that I kind of had it figured out, but I don't even with my years of experience."
"Well, now that you've admitted that to yourself, sounds like the truth. What do you feel like you need to do?"
"I just feel like I got to get help, outside help, some guidance, but from people that I feel like can really help me elevate my game and get me to the top of those leaderboards."
"Do you feel like we could be those people?"
"Yeah, I mean, it's why I'm with you right now. I've followed Jeremy for a while. I mean, I know he is one of the more popular salespeople out there. I know people go off his scripts all the time, so it's, I don't know if it's a script. I don't know if it's a style, but it just feels like if I'm going to learn from anyone, it's going to be Jeremy."
"Understood. Alright, pause. How does this feel, Pete? Because from me sitting on the other side, I'm like, whoa, like I'm having a life moment. Can you feel the difference, Pete? Like this is real closing. Like you're transforming this prospect on this call. Do you feel it?"
"Yeah, like when you're tuned in and you're like, okay, I say this and then that, I should probably go here. And then you were tuned in, you're like, hey, you said really heavy, and then he said something else, and then you took what he said and from what he said, you created the next question as opposed to like, oh, I need to think of the next questions. No, just listen and then process and then think, okay, what about this then? And like I'm listening to the way you're phrasing your questions, and they're just natural. They're not like, oh, this is the why now question I need to throw that in there. You're just like, okay, well, do you feel that we're that person? Like it's just curious. It's just natural. Can you feel it?"
"Yeah, I can. And I think this is interesting. Curious your thoughts on this, man. I didn't, I did just on purpose, I didn't take any notes while we did that. I just was like, yeah, I think my problem is like I'll fill up a whole page of notes, but it's, I'm not doing that. I think maybe that's actually a thing that's leading to me not being tuned in."
"Yeah, how does it feel for you, Harrison? Or you seem like you're about to share something."
"So, yeah, I mean, well, that's a light bulb moment because, yeah, I do the same thing, taking a lot of notes. But what I was going to say is, dude, I feel the change, to be honest. When I started saying I was like deserving myself, that was pure ego. Like the ego was really coming out of me, like genuinely. But when you would ask me like, 'If you feel you can deserve it, why don't you feel like you got there yet?' In the way that you asked that, most importantly, that like that caught me off guard because I'm like, I thought I was, I like, for me, it felt like I was about to get ready to K in like battle and like kind of duke it out. And like usually someone, I think it was like the expectation that usually if I start doing this, the other person kind of amps me up. But you, with your relaxed tone, your curiosity got me to actually take a step back, and I'm like, 'Ah [ __ ] wait.' And it got me to actually realize that moment. So like that state and the way you asked that too, that was, I actually felt that like the ego was just gone after that. This is a big ego confidence boost for me tonight, man. So this has been awesome."
"Yeah, no, like I feel like that was like a breakthrough for me tonight, honestly. It's like I've got all the things. I know all the things, and it's just like the execution of it, right?"
"Yep. Alright, finish off. Finish off the call. I think you're probably a couple questions away. Jump back in wherever you want to jump back in."
"You feel like we're the people?"
"Yep."
"Because this, this, this."
"Understood. In regard to actually getting the help, when are you looking to do that?"
"I mean, right away, as soon as I can."
"This is probably my last question. Might be redundant, but let me know. Like how many more days or weeks do you want to tell yourself that you deserve something when you haven't done enough to actually deserve what you want? Like how much longer do you want to be that guy?"
"No longer."
"No longer."
"Ouch. [ __ ] You’ve got it, Pete. You've got it. You got it now. There is a piece of bad news. What you just did in the last 10 minutes, as you felt the positivity of, 'Holy [ __ ] I just connected all of this together,' the positivity of like feeling how insanely powerful that way of closing is has to be matched with you managing your own energy. Because I'll tell you now, you can't tune in to do what you just did in the last 10 minutes if your life's a mess. That's why the internal mastery needs to come with it. When you've got a script, you can have a bad day, your girlfriend just [ __ ] some other guy, and you just read your script. It doesn't change. But for you to be able to drop the thinking and just be present and just be real, you have to have your life connected together. That's why probably a lot of people, and maybe you as well, didn't really understand the importance of the internal mastery until you just did that thing for the last 10 minutes where it was just like wizardry. It was just like Neo dodging [ __ ] bullets like this. Like you knew exactly what you were doing and exactly where you wanted to go, and it's like you're playing God. But you have to be tapped in. If you're not tapped in, you try and dodge the bullet, and it [ __ ] hits you in the face, and you're like, '[ __ ] I'm dead. Game over.' Right? So you got to remember that those two things have to come together, and if you do, I think you've now had that click moment of like, 'Oh, now I know what it feels like to be Neo on a sales call. Now I know what I should be feeling.'"
"You send me this recording?"
"100% brother. Absolutely. Oh, and just an update too. I've got my one-on-one, my first one-on-one interview for Tony Robbins' team, man."
"Well, beautiful. Well done. Well, you'll be going into that interview on a hot streak, so enjoy it."
"Enjoy it, brother."
"[ __ ] yeah."
"Alright, guys, that was awesome. I feel like both of you have had some pretty significant breakthroughs. I will see you in school, and have a great rest of your day, guys. I'll talk to you soon."
"That was an absolute pleasure, man. Thanks, Harrison."
"Of course. Thank you, guys. Appreciate it. Talk soon, guys. Bye."
"See you."