Sales Roleplay - Tax Planning and Reduction Offer With $1M/mo Trainer [LIVE]

We're back with another high-ticket sales role-play. I have Nicole and MJ here. Nicole is going to be the closer for a tax planning offer that helps individuals plan their taxes, reduce their taxes, and ultimately build generational wealth. MJ is going to play the prospect. We're going to dive into the nuances of the discovery part of a sales call because if you're a high-ticket closer and you want to close more deals, make more money, you don't want to be dealing with objections, and you don't want to be doing follow-up. The discovery is where you need to put your time; you need to master all of the things I'm going to teach you in this high-ticket sales role-play. That will allow you to become the top 0.00001% of closers if you actually master the discovery. So, without any further ado, Nicole, crack in with your opening question.

Hey, so MJ, in your opinion, what is the biggest challenge that you're having with reducing your tax bills right now?

Yeah, I mean, I think the biggest thing is just not knowing what are all the different strategies um to implement and execute on. I'm doing a few different things right now with um some traditional stuff like maxing out my 401k, maxing out my Roth IRA, um uh I'm maxing out life insurance policies, um but really just trying to see what else I I'm able to do in terms of some strategies that maybe I haven't heard of, maybe that are available to me, um to really reduce my liability.

Okay, so you you feel like you've been doing a lot of the traditional stuff, like you said, maxing out the 401k, the retirement accounts, life insurance, but it sounds like you you know that and you feel that there's more that can be done to reduce that that liability even further. Is that correct?

Yeah, that's correct.

Okay. And so so I'm curious to know what how much did you pay in your taxes last year?

All right. Yeah. Pause, pause, pause, pause. That was that was a good summary, Nicole. Where you go now, you could absolutely go that way, but what you're missing is that the guy responded to the first question with kind of a response that is, I'm going to keep my cards to my chest; I'm not really going to tell you what's going on; I'm not going to tell you why I need to do this now. And so what will end up happening is that the trust between you as the closer and the prospect is going to have this like undercurrent of like you're not having a real conversation. He'll give you the answers you need, but you always need to make sure that whatever you're doing on a sales call, the trust, the authenticity, the honesty is the number one thing. And so what he was hiding was he was like, oh, I'm doing some things, but I'm kind of looking at strategies blah blah blah blah blah. No, the real truth is something's going on that makes me doubt what I'm currently doing; something happened that made me think there's something better that I could be doing. That's what you need to get to straight away. So I would have just asked a question, said, "Love your summary, okay, got it. So you've got some strategies that you're doing right now. What was it that led you to wanting uh an elevated strategy for your tax right now?" And now we're getting into the "don't [ __ ] with me, tell me what's really going on." Does that make sense, Nicole?

Yeah, it does. As soon as we get that truth, then we're going to dive into what's actually going on, and the irony is the next questions will probably be the same ones that you're about to ask, and we'll probably get the same responses, but the guy has had to expose himself; he's had to reveal himself that you booked the call with me. [ __ ] I I didn't cold call you, so don't try telling me, "Oh, I'm just exploring." Like, don't [ __ ] with me; that's that's [ __ ]. And and as soon as someone realizes like, "I'm sharp as a tack; I know what I'm doing," that they're going to start playing ball with you a lot more. Does that make sense? The other thing, I didn't want to pause you, but I would I would consider a new opening question. Play with both. The reason I would consider it is your opening question said, "What is the biggest challenge you're having right now in terms of reducing your taxes?" Yes, the offer is about reducing their taxes, but your pigeonholing people quite quickly into tax reduction. I would have just said, "What's the biggest challenge you're having with your taxes right now?" Cuz he may turn around and say, "Oh, well, because I'm paying so many taxes I I can't build generational wealth." So now, instead of it being a conversation immediately about tax reduction, we're now talking about what really matters to the prospect, CU he told us, which could be generational wealth. So the more vague we keep the opening question, the the more likely we're going to start the call as we mean to go on and get the right thing in the beginning. And obviously, with scriptless selling, you have to get the right thing to lead to the next right thing to lead to the next right thing and so on and so forth. Does that make sense?

It does. Yeah.

Okay. All right. Good stuff. So you can go back to the previous question if you want or go from wherever you were; it's up to you.

Cool. Okay. So what was it that led you to wanting an elevated strategy now?

I just know that I'm I'm not saving as much; it's the it's the big biggest expense in my life right now; like it's crushing me every single year. Um, I've been able to reduce it probably by like 10, 20% from what I'm doing right now, but I'd like to see it closer to 60, 70%. I know people are doing that, and I just don't know what to actually do.

Okay, so you said you mentioned that it's crushing you, so you're you're only able to reduce it to the 10 to 20% you said. Um, why why is it so important for you to do that now?

No, no, no, no. You were you were nailing it. I was like, "Yes!" When you picked up on the crushing it, you were nailing it. Dig on that; dig on that. Try a different question; dig on the crushing. That was that was very good before you carry on. Do you see the difference though? Like, straight away, he has to admit, "Oh, well, you know, I'm not happy; I'm I'm being crushed," you know, "this is my biggest expense." So immediately the communication has become, "You're going to tell me facts under the premise that you're admitting things suck," as opposed to, "You're just going to tell me the facts whilst hidden behind this veil that things are okay and you're just curious about some new tax strategies." You see how we've peeled the veil away, and now the conversation about their current situation and what they've got going on and the data gathering is through the lens of, "You've admitted to me that you are not satisfied with where you are now." You're telling me the facts as to why you're not satisfied as opposed to just giving me the data I need whilst kind of pretending that everything's fine. You see how it just changes the whole dynamic of the call, the whole energy?

Yeah, yeah.

Right. Dig on the crushing it because you were on the right line with… Okay, so you you mentioned that it's crushing you. In what way is it crushing?

Yeah, I'm just not able to take home as much money as I as I'd like. It's going a lot of it's just going to taxes, and I feel like it's I could do something about it, so that's why I'm on the call.

Okay. If we could help you do something about it though, like what I'm wanting to ask… I don't know; this is where I get kind of like caught up…

Yeah, you you ju you just have to go two more layers onto that. Let me show you. Okay, so in what way is it crushing you?

Oh, you know, I'm not taking enough home.

And so what specifically is that that crushing for you?

I mean, my my ability to to do more with the money I do have, right? I I just I'm limited, and I think if I could save another 30, 40k every every year or even more, like I can utilize that for for lifestyle that I that I haven't been able to do.

Is there an example in the last three months of a lifestyle commitment or goal that you've been limited by because your taxes are crushing you?

I I mean, I I'd like to I'd like to fly first class as opposed to sitting s sitting in the back of a plane. Um, I think um even when when I I took my family on vacation recently and um I wanted to I wanted to buy a better a better suite, I wasn't able to do that because I just had to be a little bit cost like cautious. And so just wanted to make sure like if I had an additional 40, 50k that I could probably save for my taxes, like that would be a a huge lift and like how overall like lifestyle and how we live.

When was that trip that you wanted to upgrade the experience for you and your family and get them a suite?

Uh, it was two months ago.

Oh, so recent. Okay, two months ago. And why why did you want to upgrade them to a suite? Was it like an occasion or or something that you've always wanted to do or why did you want to do that?

Yeah, I mean, it was just I wanted to do something very… I mean, it was a great trip; I just think that it could have been like amazing had I been able to to upgrade them. So, um, yeah, I mean, no complaints, but it could have just been so much better because of your taxes crushing you and the the limited experience or lifestyle that you're um forced to live because of these taxes. Is that difference between things being good and things being okay as opposed to things being amazing is that a general theme across your entire life right now because your finances are crushing you or is that just an isolated experience or is your entire life like, "I'm here, but I could be here if I fix this?"

Yeah, more of the more of the latter for sure.

Yeah. How do you mean more of the latter?

I think that we're we're doing fine; like I make good money; it's just like it's just okay, and I'm like sick of it just being okay.

Why are you not satisfied anymore with anything less than an amazing life?

I mean, it goes back to that vacation. I I just when I left, I knew we had a great time. I'm like, "We could have done so much more cool [ __ ]." And so yeah, I mean, I don't know. Just seeing like I'm I'm I'm I'm like up for a promotion, and I know I'm going to make more money, but I'm still going to get crushed with taxes. And so I'm like, "How do I how do I capture this promotion money and do it in a way where I can have more to provide for my family in terms of lifestyle and like experience?" So I'm just I don't want to live in a in the B experience anymore; I want to have A+ experiences.

Why why not? Like, a lot of people would be they'd love to be in your position. Why not you? Why are you not satisfied with being a B player anymore in life?

I mean, I don't think I ever was, and that's why I was maximizing the 401k, maximizing Roth IRA; I was looking into investment property to see if I can depreciate some of those assets, things of that nature, and then I came across your guys's material. I'm like, "Okay, this is exactly what the hell I need." So, um, yeah, I mean, listen, I come from maybe a D lifestyle and so CL in over over the over the years, but I just always wanted to be top tier. And so I mean, that's why I'm on the call here to figure out, "Hey, how do I how do I do this?"

I'm absolutely clear on what you want. You know, you don't want to be a D player; you've you've ascended that to be a B player; you no longer want to be a B player. I'm clear on what you want to do. What I'm not entirely clear on is why is this so important to you to to ascend beyond the B player?

I think I wasn't provided options or experiences as a as a child, and um yeah, I want to be able to do that for my for my kids. And just I know that providing a better lifestyle now, but at the end of the day here, I know there's more to it, and I'm like, "I want them to be able to experience more."

Okay, that's that's very noble of you. Was was there some reason that because you had lived the experience of not having more options, being limited, probably a B-grade life or a D-grade life, I don't know, that having lived that experience you're no longer willing to force your children, your offspring, to to have to live a repeat of your life? Like, what why is that? I mean, tell me if I'm wrong, but you weren't homeless, were you?

No, no, nothing like that, but I mean, definitely didn't have options. I mean, the lifestyle is definitely better now, but it's just like I don't know. I have friends and and people that are well above me, and I'm just like, "I know that I can do more."

Okay, so so so you know you can do more; you want to have options; you feel like you've maxed out what took you from D level to B level. You now know that you're never going to get from B level to A level unless you make some strategic shifts in your tax planning, your tax uh reduction, and your building of generational wealth. Excuse me.

Sorry to hop on the same point, but I I just really care about understanding what this is going to do for you. What's what's so important about giving your kids more options to you? I mean, you lived life with less options, so you've had that experience. Why is it not something you're willing to let happen for your kids that they're limited or your spouse as well?

Yeah, I mean, I I I had to go through this massive massive transformation, Josh, where like from a mindset standpoint to even put myself and my family in this position today, and it was brutal. And I don't want I want my my kids to be in a position where they're where they already live in that abundance mindset and don't have to go through all the I guess trials and tribulations if you will, not to sound um cheeky, but yeah, I mean, that's it's really it for me. Like, if I if they if they don't have to go through what I went through and and more importantly can just live from a place of abundance and not scarcity, that'd be such a huge win for for for me and really my family legacy.

Would they would your kids have to go through some of these trials and tribulations if you continue with your your B-level wealth generation plan right now? Would they have to go through some of those trials and tribulations?

Not as much, but they would still they still would be limited.

Yeah. Okay. In in what way, if you say it's not so much, but they would have to go through some trials and tribulations, what what do you think they would have to go through if you didn't change anything?

Yeah, I mean, like maybe working working for for a paycheck, right? I want them to be able to pursue their their highest potential and and and not have to worry about money or worry about… yeah, that I mean that's the I guess that's the biggest thing I think is the motivator here.

Will will your children have an open road to pursue their highest potential if you don't change your tax strategy right now?

No.

No. Getting eaten up, yeah, right. By this point, he's [ __ ] yeah, totally [ __ ]. The thing that I wanted you… Sorry, I didn't stop Nicole, but I was just like, I just want you to see all of this. Do you see how I'm not moving forward? I'm moving down. I literally didn't talk about any other topic; we just went down and down and down and down and down and down and down, like 15 layers deep. And so when you heard that bit about crushing me, that was it. Like, you you just got to excavate that until you strike oil. Yeah, and like and that's the… Sorry, what was that?

Yeah, just keep digging.

Yeah, just just keep grilling. And like there was probably two times where I basically asked the same question three times. I was like, "I I I get that; I respect that; I understand that, but why?" Like, I still didn't get to a why. He was just, "Oh, you know, I don't want this; I don't want that." Okay, but why? Well, because of this and that. Yes, but why? And like you've got to be willing to stay in that hole where you're just trying to go deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper. And then that final bit was like, "My kids aren't going to pursue their highest potential." So then I have to just tie it down, which is, "Will they be able to pursue their highest potential if you don't change anything?" No. The moment he instead of a batim… No, you you can't not buy this thing now cuz not buying this thing would be telling yourself that you're forcing your children to be to have their highest potential stolen from them. Like, at that point, you're so tied up in my words, and they weren't my words; it was what you told me that you can't not buy; you can't follow up; you can't give me objections; you can't tell me it's too expensive. What what the price of your children's highest potential? That's priceless. Like, you you can't say it's too expensive; you can't say, "I need to think about it," CU you just look like an idiot if you try and do that. And so I'm doing all of this for the prospect's benefit because what he told me at the end, "pursue their highest potential," that was in there; it was already inside of him; I just had to excavate it; I just had to dig it up. I didn't put words in his mouth; I didn't get him to say something he doesn't really want. And that's the thing when you use word tracks or you use an objection handling, you're using analogies and smart things to get people to say things that aren't inside of them; you're just logically [ __ ] with their brain. You're like, "Oh, well, you know, would you need this if you got on an airplane and you didn't know the pilot?" And they're like, "No," but it's like it's not inside of them; you're just logically wrapping them up in some stupid analogy, whereas what I'm wrapping the prospect up in is their truth, their reality, their story, their actual experience of why this matters. It's so different. I'm not I'm not taking a template; I'm taking your reality and just bringing it up to the god level where you're actually looking at your reality and you're like, "[ __ ] is this? Is this actually the way I'm going to choose to live?" As opposed to coming from the top down and trying to logically puppeteer people at the top of their head with little strings. It's like what matters to people is in their gut; it's in their heart; it's in their soul. If you can bring that up, you'll close everybody because this is not cold calling. People came to the call cuz they saw an ad, and they saw another 3,000 ads that week, and they didn't click on any of the other ones; they clicked on your one cuz some light bulb went in their brain. "My current situation that I don't like and this opportunity, ding ding ding, like this could be a way out." They had that realization, and then they clicked the ad, booked the call, turned up to the call. You're just revealing where that bridge was already in their… It's like when people say the sun is always shining even if the clouds are covering it. All you're doing is peeling back the clouds and being like, "Oh, there's the sun; there it is; it was always there." Does that make sense?

It does. Yeah, yeah. What I get stuck on again is like, okay, we have so much of that like action-burning problem, you know, emotion behind it. Are you then just saying how much longer in closing it at that point or do you start to come out of that hole and then go get the data, you know, make sure they have the time for it, um spouse, etc.? Like that's where I get tripped up on the implementation.

Yeah, it's a it's a fantastic question. It it honestly doesn't matter like whether you do or don't; you probably would have a very close chance of closing them at the same percentage. So let let's imagine a reality where I don't. I would just say, "Okay, so let me ask you, man, how much longer are you willing to stay running a a limited tax strategy that literally guarantees that your children will never be able to pursue their highest potential?" I'm sure you can answer that, Josh.

Not not not any longer.

Well, I'm not the one answering it. Yeah, no longer. Okay. Why not? I wouldn't say "why not" normally apart from the way he answered the question; he's trying to remove himself a little bit from stepping into that commitment. So I'm I'm not backing off. If you'd have just said, "Oh, listen, man, not another day," I wouldn't say "why not," I just say, "Okay, cool. You you've been real with me; you've been honest. There was a little part of you that tried to alleviate yourself from full ownership; I'm going to put it back on you; I'm going to put the feet back to the fire." So okay, why not?

I mean, it'd be absurd if I didn't do anything like based off where I want to go.

Yeah, based on where you want to go or based on where you want to lead your children?

Yeah, based on where I want to take my take my life, which is my children, right?

Yeah. Okay. And so as far as having a tax strategy that is not limited in the way that yours currently is, gives you more options, allows you to take away all of that weight of being crushed, whether you make more money or not, whether you get the promotion, which I'm sure you will, removing that constant uphill battle and just being crushed by it, what was it about what you saw from us that attracted you to working with us to assist you in this family legacy?

I mean, you guys just have a ton of ton of social proof, a lot of different types of people from different industries and backgrounds, so you guys are deploying different types of strategies. I know that, and so I just felt like from a social proof standpoint and from a multifaceted tax strategy standpoint, you guys probably know what you're doing. And so so for those reasons, that's that's probably that's why.

Yeah. Got it. So so because this is so important to you, it's your kids' legacy, you needed to know that you're working with someone that knows what they're doing.

100%.

Got it. Makes sense. And obviously, as you said, multifaceted, we can do a lot of different things; we can do more; we can do less; we can do quicker; we can do slower. How much time are you able and ready to carve out right now on a weekly basis is to work with us to remove the crushing pressure of your current taxes?

Whatever is required, like I I'll make the time.

Well, you've got other commitments. I mean, an hour a week, five hours a week, somewhere in the middle, what would that be?

Yeah, I mean, if you guys are like, hey, we need two two hours a day or whatever, like I'm I'm I'll make it happen.

Okay. All right. So you've got more time than we're going to need to ask you for.

Yeah, I'm I'm in engineering, so I can a lot of my work is on autopilot.

Okay. Um, and then another quick question by the way, because you asked it, Nicole, I would have asked this way earlier, but I didn't think about it until you said uh which is about the wife. So I would I would have had to ask this earlier, but I would say, um, "Is your finances and your tax planning and your financial planning is that just yours or do you have like a a family set up where it's your wife's income, your income, anybody else's income, or or are we just talking about yours?"

Yeah, just just mine.

Okay, so this is just you're going to work with us; we're going to work with you; nobody else is involved as far as for this silo of uh working together.

Corre…

Okay. Got it. There you go. That's that's wife objection done. Like, he can't can't back out on that. I probably would have rathered asked that earlier though as well because it would have been a better time to ask when he was talking about my kids because I'd say, "Okay, got it. So you're really you know you want to do all of this for your kids. What's your wife's involvement as far as building generational wealth with you?" That would have been a great segue. What's your wife's involvement? Oh, she's not involved at all; she has a job or she's a home home… what do they call it? Like a home mom or whatever, a homemaker. Um, she's not involved. Oh, okay. Cool. Like, either way, it wouldn't have already mattered, but that would have been a nicer a more natural segue. But as you can see with scriptless selling, I can do it later; it's just a little bit clunky; it's like, "Oh, hang on; I just need to handle the wife objection while we're here." Yeah, so I've covered time; I've covered the the wife. The irony, Nicole and MJ, is like I basically didn't gather any data, but I got you fully committed and fully ownership that you're going to buy from me anyway. Yeah, because remember the principle of data gathering; you gather the data to get to the pain, but sometimes the pain just comes out after one question. Like, you don't gather data for any other reason; like you don't just gather it for the sake of it; you're only gathering it so when you look at everything, you're like, "Oh, this is where it hurts," and they're like, "Yeah, that [ __ ] hurts."

Yeah. So going off of that then, this is my first time ever having or taking a call that was set onto my calendar; maybe that's where I'm getting tripped up because I'm like they've already gathered the data, so then how do I navigate that?

Yeah, so as in they've got an application form; yeah, like they've applied, and they already had a discovery call with a setter, and the setter puts them on my calendar, so they've already kind of gathered some of the data. I'm not I mean, I haven't gone back and like watched the calls; I don't think I'm gonna have time for that, but they'll have notes, right? Of like getting the data pieces. And so would it make sense to open it back up? I don't know; I haven't I haven't figured out how to do that yet.

You you you've got to still have that conversation with the prospect, even if they've spoken to a setter and or they've filled out that information in an application form for two reasons. Number one, it shows that you care. If you just say, "Oh, I've got all the information," then the prospect's like, "That's kind of weird." Number two is when you go back through that information; that is where the pain's going to come out. You know, if you if you hadn't have said, "What's the biggest challenge with your tax planning right now?" and he said, "Oh, it's crushing me," if you hadn't have asked that question cuz you cuz you just had a setter that said MJ's tax is crushing him, you wouldn't have been able to get to your next questions. You just said, "Oh, so you know, I see here on your notes that your tax planning is crushing you." Yeah, it's crushing me. And when he says, "Yeah, it's crushing me," he's not answering a question and thinking and feeling and telling you what's the problem; he's just confirming information, whereas we can't have people confirming information; we've got people we've got to get people exposing the pain and the problems. So you got to ask the question. So you you could just ask it point-blank, "Oh, so you know how much have you got here?" Whatever open-ended, or you could just say, "So I've got on my notes here uh that you've got $100,000 tax bill um is that correct?" And they'd say yes, so, but you still have to ask everything; you have to confirm everything all over again because otherwise you'll just not get to the pain.

Okay, that makes sense. It's not that I'm just asking the same questions; it's acknowledging like, "Hey, I have these notes, but I still need to to confirm" type of thing.

Okay. Yeah. The other thing… Yeah, just one quick point. The other thing I don't know if both of you spotted it, but how quick was that discovery? Super fast. Minutes was like, yeah, 10 minutes max, and like the level of commitment and ownership and truth and rapport as they call it or trust is sky-high, and it's like 10 minutes. And and what was the one shift, Nicole, that created all of those results? Do you know what it was?

Just going the 15 layers deep, like you said, on the one thing. "Crushing you. In what way? What specifically is that crushing? Give me the real vivid story. And then just why why why? Getting to that truth." So that that's the road that allowed all of that to happen, but what was the fork in the road where we made that sh… instead of getting the data, just going straight for, you know, the pain, the problem.

Pretty much the the the fork in the road was he tried to like say, "Oh, I'm just looking at strategies," and I I know that that's [ __ ], and I'm going to very politely, very calmly challenge you on that through a question.

Okay. Got it. So what was it that has you looking at a new strategy right now? "Oh, well, this is crushing me," as opposed to, "Okay, what are you doing for a tax strategy right now?" The difference in the question of, "Okay, so what led you to wanting something new right now?" Truth versus, "What is your current tax strategy?" "Oh, I'm doing this and this and this, and I've got this much and this percentage and blah…" We're not having a truthful conversation. So the fork in the road was that you had the opportunity to get the guy immediately on record telling you the truth, and if you missed that fork in the road, the discovery would have been 40 minutes; you may have still got objections; you would have had to follow up with him just because of one shift. And that's why scriptless using a script is so dumb and so stupid because that fork in the road could be anywhere in the sales call; it might not be the first question; it might be the third question, but at some point the prospect is going to say something, and you're going to be able to go left or right, and left is, "We're going to have a no [ __ ] conversation; we're going to have an uncucked real [ __ ] conversation." Going right is what your next scripted question would say, but the point is even if someone was the best person in the world at writing a sales script, you can't write a sales script because that would handle this because where that question is going to be, where the fork in the road, you don't know; it could be anywhere; you just have to be able to be aware of, "Oh, [ __ ], they said this; I know there's some unrealized truth there; I spotted it, and I now need to be able to create the question in real time off the top of my head that's going to allow us to continue having a truthful conversation." So if someone was like, "Oh, well, I'll just I'll just put that question in on question two," well, why why now? No, cuz if you just put that on every sales call now, it's not going to work cuz it's it's now just a template. Does that make sense?

It does. Yeah. It's like you're listening for that; it's almost like um like I'm learning Spanish right now, right? And I I'm hearing things that I never really heard before, and I'm recognizing it, and it's kind of the same thing with scriptless is like, "Oh, I recognize that I need to go this way now, right now." Yeah. And what what you're listening for through curiosity is authentic conversations, the truth. Inbound call, turned up to the call, "What's the biggest challenge you have in your tax?" "Oh, nothing really; I'm just looking at some new strategies." What? Like, no, clearly that's a red flag; clearly my spider sense is tingling that that's [ __ ]. And so you need to be able to hear that, and and there's there's two things that any salesperson that's using a script won't be able to do. Number one, they won't see it, hear it, or feel it, and number two, even if they did see it, hear it, or feel it, they've got the next question written down for them, so then they're just going to have to say the next question whether they heard it or not. It's like a boxer having an opponent in front of them, and their coach told them that the first punch you need to throw is a is a jab. Like, whatever happens, you need to throw a jab, and the opponent goes to right hook them, and they're like, "Well, I'm about to get whacked in the middle of my ribs, but my coach told me I have to do a jab, so I'm just going to do that," and instead of moving or ducking or blocking it, you just get whacked in the ribs. So you you can't do that; you have you have to be able to see the punches coming, and then in real time go, "Oh, that's coming there; I'm going to move; I'm going to do something different." Does that make sense?

Yeah, yeah.

All right

Understand you on a human-to-human level. Prospects just open up to you like you wouldn't believe.

Make sense? Yeah. Thank you for that. You're very welcome. You're very welcome. Sales is such a noble thing, done the right way. It's such a noble profession because you are truly—if you if you're going to be really good—you are truly being unbelievably selfless. You're not selfish at all; you're just trying to understand a human being and care about them, and then they buy from you. If you step into that identity—it's a noble pursuit—and you be that type of salesman or saleswoman, you'll have such an energetic difference in your sales course. You'll be able to ask these questions without people saying, "Can't you just tell me the price?" or "Can't you just tell me what's going on?" They'll just want to have a conversation with you.

Yeah. All right, let's do—do you want to do another one, Nicole? Have you both got time? Oh, MJ, do you have time? I think you've got 10 minutes, don't you? No, I'm good. Okay. Okay, do you want to do another one, Nicole?

Yeah, I was gonna say I was on mute. I didn't realize, but um, I had this assumption, which again is an assumption—it's terrible—I was like, "Oh, this is going to be a more logical sale," but just going off this role play, look how much emotion was involved in that. Like it just goes to show that there's a reason we all always do things; there's a why behind it. You just have to get to that why. There's a reason why, and there's a reason why now. On every call, "Why does this matter to you? And why now?" If you don't have those two things, you won't close them. You won't close them not because you don't have the data of those things, but because you haven't actually had a real conversation; you haven't had a heart-to-heart connection with someone. If you don't know why things matter to them and why they matter right now, those two premises are the walls to the building that you're building that holds the whole thing up. Why and why now.

Yeah. All right, let's do another one. So whenever you're ready, just crack him with your opening question. Okay, "What's the biggest challenge with your taxes right now?"

I just feel like my strategy is so so basic. Um, there's no there's no like complex strategies that are allowing me to save more. And so I know that there's areas in my my current financial situation where I could definitely be saving a lot more money and taking home a lot more money. So I think the biggest challenge is just like not knowing.

Okay, so you you feel like you're you're not knowing what to do. You've done some basic things, but you you know that there's more that you could be doing in order to reduce that that tax bill even further. Um, what was it that led you to wanting a more sophisticated strategy now?

So that that was very good. That's exactly the question I would have asked. Don't change the prospect's language though—"complex strategy."

Yeah. Yeah, I wouldn't I wouldn't change it to sophisticated because it's so minor, Nicole. But like if you change people's words, the response that they'll give you to the question will be equally as inaccurate because you're starting to veer the conversation off into slight manipulation of their words. They they'll just do the same in response. It's mirroring. It's like, "Oh well, I I said complex, you said sophisticated. You're now asking me why I want to move from basic to sophisticated. I'll tell you something that's equally as much [ __ ] as you just told me." Like you're you're you're creating that relationship, so you got to you got to keep things on track, and then things will stay in the right line.

Okay, but that was the same question I would have said. I also—one other thing for both of you—and this is a a funny dynamic cuz MJ was asking, you know, "How am I asking these very penetrating questions without the prospect saying, 'Oh, what's going on? Just tell me the price'?" There's a there's a very beautiful balance between your body language and your energy and your kind of grace—being very detached and very caring—but the words that you say and the way you say the question being very direct. And here's why: if you ask a question—if you deliver the question in a way that's kind of crumbly or soft or kind of weak or kind of just beating around the bush—the prospect starts to see through your facade, and then they'll say, "Just tell me the price. Just tell me what you've got going on." When you just ask very directly to the person, they they respond to the level of respect that you're showing that you have for yourself. And so I'll give you the example: when you asked the question—I can't remember the words—but the demeanor in how you said it was soft. I would have just said, "Okay, got it. So you were doing this, you were doing that. What led you to want to move from a basic strategy to a complex strategy right now?" You see, my—the way I'm delivering it is like I'm just I'm I'm investigating. I'm investigating you. I'm not just having a riff raff with you. I'm I'm investigating the situation. It's it's more penetrating. The way you've got a phrase of questions now—that doesn't mean you're you're abrupt or you're rude. I wouldn't say, "Okay, so why do you want to move from a basic strategy to a complex one?" That just sounds challenging, which isn't nice. But my my necessity to be blunt with the questions is because I'm an investigator; I'm a detective. I have to be precise with the question questions, cuz otherwise I'm investigating things in a soft, careless way, and then I might miss the evidence. Does that make sense?

Yeah. So be more be more be more punchy with the way you ask the question. It and it can be slow as well. I could I could say it fumbling my words, and it will still be punchy. I could say, "Okay, so you got a basic strategy, and you want to move to a complex strategy. Why do you want to move from a basic strategy to a complex strategy?" I can say it super slowly with a load of pauses, fumble a bit of the words, and you still feel that I'm precisely targeting the information that I want to know because it's from curiosity; it's from investigative imperative. Does that make sense?

Yeah. Yeah. Can feel the difference—or that was that was leading—can you feel the difference?

I can feel the difference, and I think part of that probably is just because I'm uncertain on how like what I'm even doing right. I'm sure that confidence and certainty will come.

That that's a great point. If you're just imaginative and you're just creative, you will. Because you knew—you knew the thing that you're like, "Okay, what what's going on there?" Once you figure out the missing piece of information that you want to ask, take a few seconds, figure out what what you're missing. Once you've decided, "This is what I want to know," then just ask it and just go for the question. You you might you might take 30 seconds to look at what they've told you and think, "Okay, well, what am I missing? Is it this? Should I ask that? Should I ask this?" That doesn't matter. Take as long as you need, but once you've decided, you ask the question. Does that make sense?

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right, keep going. So go back to that question and just ask it more more more clearly.

Okay, got it. So you you mentioned that you have a basic strategy and you want a more complex strategy. What was it that led you to wanting a more complex strategy now?

Okay, sorry. So the reason that was not punchy is because you added too many words into it, and so it lost—it diluted. So what you said—the first half perfect, second half perfect—and then you just carried on talking. Another way that you can make your questions more punchy, even if it takes you 30 seconds to deliver the question cuz you've got a load of pauses while you're thinking—pause and be in silence; don't add in extra words. So you said, "Okay, so you got a basic strategy and you want to move to a complex strategy," and then you said this: "So what was it that led you to wanting to move from a basic strategy to a more complex strategy," and I think you said "right now" or something like that. I would have just said, "So what led you to that?" You can just stop there, and you're not repeating your words because the more you repeat the words over and over, you dilute and dilute and dilute the the gravity of the question. And these things might seem very superficial—like, "Hang on, we're playing with how we phrase the questions"—this is why pro—this is why closers spend so long in the discovery, or they get objections at the end of the call, or they have trust objections because of these minor differences. Mastering sales is how you deliver things; it makes such a difference into the relationship that you are building and having with the prospect. Okay, so I know it seems like really micro details, but they're so important.

Okay. All right, do it again.

Okay, so you mentioned you have a basic strategy that you want to move to a more complex strategy. What led you to that?

I just know that I'm leaving a lot of money on the table, and I know there's other strategies out there; I just don't know what they are. You have the—you have people that are making more than me and paying less in taxes, and I'm like, "What the hell are they doing that I'm not doing?" And so I think part of—part of me wanting a more complex strategy is just being able to reduce that liability way further than what I'm currently doing right now.

Okay, so you know that there's people that are—sorry, Nicole, pause. That was perfect. Can you see the difference in the response, and and does the conversation feel different to you? Can you feel the difference in like, "Holy [ __ ], we're having a real conversation now"? Can you feel that?

Yeah, I feel like he opened up a little bit more about like other people that are making more than him. I feel like that's—I don't know, you correct me if I'm wrong—that's the route I want to go down, or like I'm still—like in my mind I'm always asking why—well, why—but I'm unsure what should I be asking the why on at the right time.

Well, don't worry about the right time because you can ask why 20 times in a sales call. What I'm curious about is you said he opened up a little bit more. Why did you say a little bit?

Um, maybe I'm just comparing it to the last one.

Well, I was three questions in by the time he was opening up more. You've asked one question after your opening question—one question.

I guess that's true. You you you've just asked your opening question and one question, cuz I I was like looking at the camera like, "[ __ ], here we go!" Because the difference in that he he he just spilled everything out. You just you just burst the bubble; he just he just went for it, and that was one question. And it was because when you finished the question—you just ended—"What led to that?"—end of question. I had to answer.

Yeah. Yeah, that that's exactly it. Thank you for saying that, MJ. The prospect will feel like they have to answer. You're not manipulating them; you're not puppeteering them; you're not telling them they have to ask you. They feel that they have to answer because they now feel that you're the investigator; you're the detective; you're the doctor. You've got gravity in your personality, and they feel that gravitas, and when they feel it, they're like, "Oh, [ __ ], I need to answer this—re—I need to answer this in a real way, in a true way." Another example—and that was why I was so confused why you said a little bit as to why he opened up so much—is when prospects start using emotive language. So there was two or three, but I didn't write down the first two. I I was a little a little bit behind trying to drop my facial expression after seeing you nail it, Nicole. Uh, so I was a little bit delayed, but the third one that that MJ said was "What the hell," and the way he said that—he was like, "Oh, I'm watching other people, and you know they're paying less than me, and I'm like, 'What the hell?'" Like when people make those little phrases like that, you've you've triggered them; you've burst the bubble; they're they're starting to get emotive from one question.

Yeah, one question. And he's like, "What the hell?" Like like he's he's getting fired up. That means you're you're digging; you're excavating; you're excavating the emotions out of him. That was one question. One question. That's why when closers are like, "Oh, I need 17 questions to get to some juicy stuff," I'm like, "Nope. You you ask one, two, or three questions the right way, with the right energy, the right philosophy. You're not judging people; you're not trying to poke and prod them to get a sale. You you're just like, 'Why?' I'm investigating this," and they'll give you the truth from one question.

In. Yeah, it's funny. I didn't even really catch the "What the hell." I caught when he like—I think I felt it instead of hearing the "What the hell." I felt it where I was like, "Oh, there's an issue around the other people paying," but yeah, I didn't even hear the "What the hell," which is funny.

Yeah. And so because you felt that there was an issue—not that it's the perfect next question; there isn't one—but I could say, um, you know, when you said that other people are paying less than you and you said, you know, you're thinking, "What the hell," why is that something that you now want to fix? And now he's having to think to—why the "What the hell" is such an issue for him that he has to fix it. "Oh well, Bob, my next-door neighbor, I've hated him all my life, and you know he's paying less taxes than me, and he just bought a Ferrari." Oh, [ __ ]. "What do you drive? Honda." And like we're into it; like we're into the conversation from two questions.

Yeah, I don't know what it is that's like blocking me where like I feel like I know that I need to go down that, but I'm getting so stuck on like the actual question, like, "Oh, how do I ask this question? I don't know." What is that? Maybe it's my perfectionism. I I I don't know, but it's a it's a lot of social conditioning from scripts and the sales industry.

So don't worry. Most closers have—I wasn't really trained on scripts; that was the problem. So I think it's an internal thing.

Well, you might not have been trained on scripts, but you'd be surprised how deep the social conditioning of what sales is supposed to be like—from movies, from TV shows, just from gossip—like it's so deeply ingrained that what we teach here is not sales—like what having a real conversation about something's kids—like that's not sales; like that's [ __ ] life coaching or whatever. It's like, "No, this is real selling." So it's it's very very deeply rooted into societal norms. But don't overthink that. You can take a moment to think about the question; it it it really doesn't matter. Like take as long as you need, just once you've decided what you're next curious about, just ask the question very directly and think about trying to say it in a a a a more reduced number of words.

Okay. Yeah. All right. Okay, so I I sense that there was some maybe like frustration behind these other people and how they are saving more in taxes and having more money than—what what was that about?

Okay, say the same thing in like 80% less words. Okay, just to just to train you, and if you can't think of how to do it, I'll give you an example, but you need to practice this.

Okay, so I sense there was some frustration about others and their tax strategies. What is that about?

I wouldn't have even have said "What is that about?" You could have just stopped at that that bit there. Okay, that's the point. You're you're you're still adding in like just a little extra bit on the end that you don't actually need. So you could you could just say, "So I sense you're frustrated about other people's tax strategies."

Yeah, right. Yeah, it's like a statement as a question basically.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. All right. Keep—

Okay, so I sensed you're frustrated about other people's tax strategies.

I mean, yeah, I it's it's crazy how much people are able to to save with the right strategies in place, and and right now I just don't know even where to start. So yeah, very very frustrated because I I'm not taking home as much money as I could. I just get stuck; I don't know what to ask. Like I I feel like—so so why—so why do you think they have the right strategies and you don't?

Oh, okay. I wanted to know instead like, "Well, why does it bother you?" I don't know. Like could could go that, but we know it bothers him, so we've kind of like—we can put a pin in that if we need to open that Pandora's Box again later to just keep firing him up to get him into the cloth, we can do that. But like I've I I've got that—I've put a little Post-it note—like he's pissed off, he's fired up. Yeah, we we now need to put some ownership on him. But if you want to go deeper into what's bothering about that and who is it specifically, you can go that way. It doesn't matter. Like I I can go that way and come back around to what I'm doing. But in my mind I'm always just thinking about what's the most direct question I can ask you and just keep keep you on your toes.

Yeah, the "Why do you think" question—"Why do you think they"—what—how—what did you say—"Why do you think they have better tax strategies?" Doesn't matter how I say it; just just think of what I'm asking and then say it in your own way in in an abbreviated way—just however you would ask that question.

Okay, so why do you think they have a better tax strategy than you?

I mean, I don't I don't know. I'm I'm sure they're they're just—maybe they have access to other information that I don't. Maybe they have better tax planners um that they're working with. And so I mean that's why I'm on the call here, right, to to see exactly what some of those other strategies are. I don't know; I'm just so lost.

Josh, don't worry. I mean, number one, it's a brand new offer. Few, I'll give you some examples. Okay, so that that they're just doing things different to you.

Yeah. I mean, clearly, or I'd be saving more money.

Okay, you've you've mentioned saving more money a couple of times. Um, let's dig into that. How much money have you got saved right now?

Um, just north of 50k.

Okay. Yeah. And and how much money would you have wanted to have saved that would have made you feel like you had the right tax strategies?

I mean, I I make I make right around 220, and I—paying taxes are at around like close to 100, and so every year—

Yeah. And so I—this past year I saved 50k is what I'm saying, and I think I could probably save a lot more than that. So I mean, I paid $50,000—

And I'm like, "Jesus"—wait, you paid 50,000 or you paid 100,000 in tax?

Well, you you ask me how much have I saved, and I just was giving you—I I saved 50% of my tax burden for the year, which was 100k.

Okay. And then because we're talking about saving—what specifically are you saving for?

It's not even necessarily saving for for anything; it's just like having more money to work with—to invest, to do more with—um, whether it's lifestyle or—yeah, I mean I have money going into my uh my my kids um college plan, their their 403bs and things of that nature. But yeah.

So where we're at now—one of the things that's kind of brought you to this call is other people uh I guess showing you that they've got a better strategy than you and therefore they're not having so much expenses on taxes—are these people you know, or are these just people that you know you've you've seen online, or who are these people?

Yeah, I mean there there's there's people that I just hear of—people that are—they're billionaires and even people who are in the seven-fig range, which like I I'm I'm not too far off on making seven figures—who are just not—who are down to like 0%—like literally—or under 10% of their income. People who are making a million—I'm making a quarter—and they're paying just as much as I am.

How do you think they figured out that strategy?

Probably working with some tax strategist.

Do you think any of them figured it out on their own eventually?

Really? You think a billionaire spends his time reading the tax codes?

Well, I mean, we put it that way now, but yeah. So I'll ask the question again: do you think any of them did that without hiring an expert?

No, definitely not.

Okay, so my question is, knowing that you're on your way to seven figures and maybe your aspiration is to be a billionaire one day, was there a specific moment recently—now—where you were looking at these other people and thinking, "This is ridiculous, what little tax they're paying compared to me," or maybe something in your personal life that led to you no longer being willing to have the wrong tax strategies?

I I just I I saw a few different marketing and ads and things talking about all these different savings, and that really is what the—what really caught my attention to begin with. Then I came across your guys's ad and marketing, and it really just resonated and spoke to me because I'm like, "I'm paying way too much in tax," and that was really the the the dagger for me.

H—how how was your perspective of "I'm paying way too much tax" on a scale of 1 to 10—like a year ago—10 being like, "Oh, I'm I'm paying way too much tax"—basically the same as where you're at now—or zero being like you just weren't really thinking about it? How was that a year ago?

Yeah, I mean a year ago is when I started to really take note of it, and that's where I I saved myself 50%.

Like okay, save—

Yeah. But then as I started to look into more strategies myself because you mentioned—could have—could a—could have—does a billionaire learn these things on their own? Like these are things that I learned on my own. I'm like, "Okay, well, I don't—I'm clearly I don't know about other strategies," and so that's when I started seeing these ads.

So what was your question? I know you mentioned one through 10; I wasn't sure if I was answering that accurately for you.

Yeah, yeah. You you basically were—you were saying that a year ago you started to take notes. So why did you start to take notes a year ago?

Because I got smashed with a huge tax bill, and I was like, "Wow," like, "I can't believe I just paid basically half of the money that I earned for the year in taxes." I was like, "I got to start doing something about this," and that's when I doubled down on some of the more traditional methods.

Um, was that tax bill a surprise?

It wasn't a surprise. I just I started to really think about where my finances were, and I realized taxes were my biggest expense by a long shot.

Sorry, what I mean by surprise is did you know based on how much you're earning and how much your tax is going to be that that was going to be your tax bill, or for some reason did you think it was going to be way less than that, and then you're like, "Holy [ __ ], like where did that come from?"

I mean, yes and no—like a combination of both. I guess I just was—I sat down with—I like—I used to work in finance um prior to what I do now, and I just sat down with myself and did—ran the numbers, and I was like, "Wow, I'm paying an exorbitant amount of money in taxes."

So what I'm—hang on—just so I'm clear, MJ—so you weren't aware of how much tax you were paying or going to be paying until you ran numbers?

Well, I mean, yes or no—like I'm W2, so I see it coming out every every month—it doesn't seem like a whole bunch until the end of the year, and I—when I was looking at it at the end of the year because I was like, "All right, I make about a quarter million, but I'm only—I'm only pocketing over a little over 100k," and I just had to make that assessment. I look, and I realized taxes are easily my biggest expense.

Got it. Okay. Can I can I give you a quick summary of kind of where I'm at in my head and see if we're on the same page?

Yeah, please.

The problem I'm really hearing as far as why you're paying, you know, a normal person's amount of taxes rather than a seven-figure owner's or a billionaire's limited taxes is really twofold: number one is obviously you've got the wrong strategies; you don't have the same strategies as these smarter guys that have hired someone to reduce their tax liability as number one. But number two, if I'm being honest with you, is you've kind of just been very negligent about being aware of your taxes and what's coming out and what's going to be coming out and running your numbers. And so part of it is strategy, but if I'm honest, the part of it is you just haven't really been proactive and conscious of your finances, and tax being the biggest part of it—is that fair to say?

I mean, I guess as I mentioned before, like I have been taking the steps—like I reduced it on my own, right—but to your point, I think there's another way.

Let me clarify. So I mean, before before that surprising tax bill—

Oh yeah, yeah, 100%. Sorry, I should have I should have been more specific. Y—y—I was like, "What the hell is he talking about?" Like yeah, I've been taking some steps, but yeah, before that—completely oblivious to it and not—yeah, being negligent.

Okay. And the reason that I kind of summarized it like that—and again, please disagree—thank you for clarifying my timeline was a bit inaccurate—is that to go from where you're at now to the financial um excellence of a seven-figure earner or a billionaire as far as little tax they're paying is—if we look at it like three steps—step one was you were just completely [ __ ] negligent—like you you had no idea what your tax outlay was going to be, and you got whacked by that big bill. You've moved from negligence to what we could call like passively trying to do the best that you can with your own intelligence, and that's kind of what's got you where you're at now. It's kind of passive, retroactive—looking at some tax things and seeing what you can do. The next level is what we could call like expert—like, "I don't want to pay any [ __ ] taxes if I can't"—that's how seven-figure owners think; that's how billionaires think. And that's where the mindset shift is—rather than you kind of passively looking at different things that you can do, you now deploy an expert. And that shift from what you've been doing and how you've been thinking to how billionaires think and how seven-figure owners—I think that's that's quite a big mental shift. And so are you—like—does that make sense what I'm saying? Do you agree with what I'm saying? You know, how do you feel?

Yeah, if I if I'm understanding you—like in terms of like the next step for me to be able to reduce that—you're saying it's a big shift. I think I understand that.

Yeah. Yeah, it's it's like essentially—as far as tax reduction and tax planning—you could view it as going pro—like use—let let me give you a simple fitness analogy. Prior, you were just—sorry to be blunt—but you were just a fat slob that was completely negligent with your fitness, using the metaphor. You then became the guy that goes for walks, and you don't get too fat, and you know you're okay shape; you're not you're not, you know, Arnold Schwarzenegger, but you know you're you're you're a decently fit guy. Okay, the next level is you want to be an Olympic athlete as far as your tax—taxes. Does that make sense? Like kind of like the levels to the game—that—

Yeah. Yeah.

So using the Olympic athlete as like an example—do you think an Olympic athlete plans their diet and plans their exercise routine and plans their recovery routine and all of the stuff that allows them to be an Olympic athlete?

No, they definitely have somebody that does that for them.

Okay, and so my question for you is are you at the point now where you're ready to go pro?

Yeah, definitely.

Why?

Why? I mean, for all the reasons why we just talked about this. I'm just sick of seeing others do what I know I could do if I put myself in the right position. Um, I just want to be able to do more with the the money I do have and really set myself up—set my family up for a way better future.

Got it. You've said twice now—"be able to do more"—what what are the things that you're unable to do right now because you're you're playing at the amateur level as far as tax athlete? I mean, what what are the what are the races that you're not winning, so to speak?

Yeah, travel—um, I mean all the all the things that people want to do more of that they don't have the ability to because of because of the amount of earnings they have.

What what is the what is the number one thing over the last 90 days that you haven't been able to do because you're paying all of this money in tax?

I don't think it's necessarily not what I haven't been able to do; it's more so—H—I guess it's more so like not having to check—I'm just—I don't want to be financially burdened anymore, and I—in like another $50,000—another 40k every year would make a huge difference.

Okay, give me a recent example of of something that you purchased or something that you did that cost money where even though maybe you did it, you were having to check the finances and feeling burdened by that money going out. What was a recent example?

Yeah, I mean, I just took the family on a on a trip a few months ago and just had to really check the accounts like the whole time, and I was just like almost like sick—seeing—like just understanding—like I was like, "Gez," like this is like—I want to do more, but I have to really be really cost-conscious of what we're we're spending on this trip.

And so because your consciousness was not completely on the trip, but you said all the time your consciousness was on the accounts, how did that impact your experience that you gave to your family and that you gave to yourself, having paid for it, because you were financially burdened and your consciousness was somewhere else?

I mean, yeah, I mean, I just wasn't present. But that's—I mean—but I mean, is that the—just not being—yeah, just not as present as I I would like to be with the family—um, yeah.

So was was there any moment of not being present where one of your family members was emotionally burdened by your financial burden?

I don't think so. No. Um, I think I I put on a nice facade, if you will, right. And so I see—wearing a facade—

Okay. Okay. Does anybody in your family notice that you're wearing a facade or just you?

I mean, I I wouldn't say it's a facade. I'm just like, yeah, I'm a little bit stressed about the finances, but we have—we have some—we we're not broke—just like—I know we're just—I'm just like looking at—I just like—I see the bill coming in, I'm like, "Oh," like this is like—maybe I don't take the steak that night, right? Maybe I eat something different—that type of vibe.

So your your financial burden is running basically all of your decisions—basically running the way you are or are not present on a family trip—running the choices of you being able to eat the foods that you'd really like to eat—your your finances is running your life; is that what you're saying?

I mean, doesn't that—doesn't it run everyone's life to some degree?

Uh, not not the billionaires—no—or probably not the seven-figure owners that have reduced their tax bills so much that the amount of money they're making every month is more than ample for them to not be checking their finances.

Yeah, I mean, to some degree, yeah, but I mean, we—we could talk all day about me—like I I want to understand what you guys do in terms of how you guys help with this with these things. We do a lot of different things; it's completely personal to what you need, and it's also um based on how important this is to someone that we'd consider bringing on as a client. So at the moment—everything you're saying is—I've got green ticks in all my boxes—but I'm still

Constantly live in fear and full of stress anytime and every time you are spending money. I mean, that's why we're here, like, not yeah, not any longer. Okay. Is there anything else that we haven't covered?

No, I mean, just just what you guys do. The only other thing I needed to ask you is, in terms of time available, how much time have you got available that you can work with one of our specialists to uh move your strategy from a basic one to a more complex one on a weekly basis? I mean, I have I have time, like I can carve up a few hours a week if that's what it takes.

Okay, yeah, so you know, one hour a week up to five hours, depends how complex you want to go and how quickly you want to move from a basic to a complex strategy, but you've got a few hours a week and that's right now, like you you don't have any uh unavailability for the next few weeks, you can do that right now? Yeah, 100%. Okay, got it. It's probably as far as I'd go, like that's that's one of those prospects where I've covered everything. Do I feel absolutely certain that he's going to buy right now? No, like he might he might not, but you know I'm I'm temperature gauging. Is there anything else that he wants to tell me that he tell me? You know, I feel like I've covered everything I need to know. The only other thing I could have gone into is, you know, maybe talking about his wife and if he has kids, the kids, as far as not splurging, like how does he feel as a dad not being able to splurge? How does he feel as a husband not being able to splurge? I could I could have probably gone into that, but with this type of prospect, my my read was I don't want to provoke the prospect, like I'm I'm getting a vibe from that version of MJ, that prospect, that like if I keep poking and prodding too much, he might he I might just burn the lead. So it was a very different lead to the previous one, very different style, very very different questions as well, and you you'll get both of those types on on this offer, but I've I've covered so many different bases, it's like I probably wouldn't probably wouldn't go anywhere else.

Any thoughts? Yeah, the whole time I I was like, wow, it's so crazy how different the questioning the prospect he's being versus the first one, and it was funny because you did have to go into the data because his emotion was around actual numbers, and so like it's it's it's so interesting seeing how different every single one can be and can go. Um, but I was feeling the same thing, I was like, I don't know about this guy.

Yep, and that's why with a proper scriptless selling methodology, you can have calls that you close in 12 minutes, calls that you close in 40 minutes, and and that's reality. Having a script where every call is the same length is like, how's that reality? Because humans are different. Human beings are so different. Obviously, you were playing a prospect, MJ, but was there something that you had in mind that you wanted me to dig into that was like some secret door that if I'd have gone down that secret door you were going to have some extra information that we didn't cover?

Um, yeah, I was just thinking more so like digging into um the the trip itself and like a little bit more about that because I actually had experience like this where like I took my family on a trip and I paid for everything and I was so stressed out about it and I remember like my I it caused a little bit of conflict because like and I wanted to open that up a little bit because I I was playing as Prospect, but there was a little bit of detail on there that was actually true. Let's let's dive into it. Okay, so let's go back into the role play. Um, you mentioned this trip that you went on. How many trips have you taken your family on where you essentially were paying for everything? It was this is the first one. Okay, and what what led to you taking them on this that you paid for everything?

Yeah, as I said, I'm I'm up for promotion and wanted to really celebrate with them and uh I I make like a large like a significantly more amount of money than a lot of my other family members and it's the first time that we actually went on a family trip together, so I was like I wanted to invite everybody. Yeah. Okay, so that was your first ever family trip in your life? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so what was it about you being able to pay for that first ever family trip that made it something so important that you wanted to pay for it?

Yeah, I mean my my f like I'm from uh I'm from Puerto Rico, and it was the first time my my family and I were able to go together um and yeah, I mean getting the getting the promotion and being able to save for this trip and invite and have everybody there was um that's really why I was wanting to pay for everything. Sorry, I'm still not clear. So I understand that you wanted to celebrate, you got a promotion. I understand it was the first time everybody had been there. Why is having everybody together on a trip so important to you?

I mean, yeah, we never had a a family trip like that before um and we have we've had like small trips and things like that, but nothing to this significance, and I just wanted to it was like a special time um where I felt like I could do it, and being able to fly everybody there was like really cool um just I've always had a pretty tight-knit family and we've been through a lot together, so I just wanted to give back to them. That's why it was so important. And so now you've paid for that family trip, you know you've had the first family trip, is that kind of tick the box like, okay, you've you've paid for the first family trip, you've you've done that, or what about moving forward?

Yeah, I mean, and that's another thing is I definitely want to be able to do more of more of that, and I'm I feel like I want to be able to get rid of some of this um Stress and Anxiety that comes around the finances around being able to do stuff like that. Is there anyone else in your family that could be paying for all of this?

No. Okay, so if it's not you, you and all of your other family members, that was the first and last family trip together that they'll ever go on.

I never thought about it like that. Yeah, when you imagine that if you don't reduce your largest expense, which is your tax burden, and therefore you only have two options, which is option one, you do take the more and more trips, but every time is a repeat of the last time as far as you not being present, you wearing a facade, you're pretending everything's fine, but you're actually stressed. That's option one, or option two is because you know that if you don't fix your tax burden and you do pay for this, it's going to be so stressful that you just choose to never do it again. When you imagine either of those two options, if if you don't change anything, how does how do you feel?

I mean, that that that's like I almost feel almost motivated honestly because I'm like, okay, I don't want either of those scenarios to happen. Yeah, and obviously on the other side of the coin, I I'm like that's feels terrible to think about for those realities to even have any legs.

Yeah, it's a great question, and this is family true trips, you know, is there any other things that you have wanted to in the past or think that you'll want to in the future pay for for family members and want to be able to do so in a way that's not going to burden you with stress?

Yeah, that's something I I started thinking about after after the trip too. Um, I mean, just minor things like here and there if they they needed anything like I want to be able to do it without hesitation. Yeah, I feel like I do some of that now, but it's still I'm still like ah, and I just don't want to even have that thought. Does that make sense?

Yeah, absolutely does. Another side that I want to explore with you is a a lot of this conversation has been about you providing for your family stress-free, being able to provide for other people, people you care about. What about for yourself? Is there is there things that you want to be able to provide for yourself stress-free, or is that not in the equation right now? Like right now it's just hey my my biggest thing is I want to be able to take care of my family stress-free and provide these opportunities for them.

Yeah, I would I would I actually I do lean more towards the latter for sure. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I mean there there's things that I'm like, hey, if I like I don't really think about myself right now.

No. Yeah. So yeah, to answer your question more, my family. Yeah. How often do you speak with your family or see your family and think about some Financial thing that you would like to help them with or provide for them that you then get this, you know, stress even imagining if you provided it for them financially? How often does that happen?

I I I couldn't answer that. Maybe maybe once or twice or a month.

Wow, so every couple of weeks you see your family and you you are aware of your finances stopping you from being able to just just give more, just open up more, just provide more because you still have to keep paying this massive tax bird and that happens every couple of weeks?

Oh, I mean, I would say not every couple of weeks, probably like every every few months.

Oh, okay. So what what changed from every, you know, once or twice a month to now every few months? What what's the difference?

Um, because I don't see them often. I I see them probably quarterly, but I talk to them every week.

Oh, well, yeah, it doesn't have to be in person. I'm just asking that like you had the family trip, you want to take them on more family trips, that could be like years in between as far as in your mind like we went on the trip next year or a couple of years we'll do the next trip. So the kind of awareness of of this problem would be very few and far between, or what I'm asking is do you speak to your family virtually, remotely, in person every couple of weeks and think, you know what, I want to help Grandma out with that, or I want to help my mom out with that, or I want to help my brother out with that, but if I do that, I'm going to be [ __ ] stressed.

Yeah, okay, so that does that that is every couple of weeks. Yeah, that happens quite a bit.

Yeah, okay. How many more of those phone calls or in-person meetings do you want to go to knowing that you want to help your family financially, that you could help your fin family financially, but you won't help your family financially because with your current tax basic strategy all it's going to do is cause you a massive amount of stress and grief? How many more of those phone calls do you want to turn up to knowing that those I mean, not many more, man, like yeah, well, not many more or not another one or cuz if there's not many more we can circle back in a few months once you're done turning up to phone calls of your family knowing that you've got a good heart, you're a good person, you want to help your family, but yeah, yeah, I mean, not not again, not anymore, like none, no more.

Okay, so the next time you're on a phone call, you know that you're moving your strategy from a basic strategy to a complex strategy, giving yourself back, you know, your current tax burden, your tax liability, and therefore when you're on the next phone call, whatever comes of that, you know they need help with this, they want to go on this trip, whatever you would now be, to put it simply, not wearing a facade anymore, you'd just be able to say, hey, yeah, let me take care of that.

Yeah, when you when you imagine that that's your next phone call or your next meeting, how does that make you feel?

I mean, it feels like the a weight kind of off my shoulders. Yeah, feel lighter.

Nice. Yeah, well, I'm definitely clear on where you're at, definitely clear on where you want to get to. We can absolutely help you with that. If you want me to walk you through a through to Z of how we take that weight off your shoulders, take that stress away, take that uh I think there was another word you used, I can't remember what it is off the top of my head uh what was it here uh distress as well, if you want us to take that distress away from you, I can take you through a through to Z how we take your basic strategy and we help you go pro and give you a complex strategy so that you don't have to have any more phone calls where you're wearing a facade with your family anymore.

Yeah, let's do it.

Yeah, so that one would have a much higher likelihood of closing because we just went deeper on it, so thank you for clarifying that with me, MJ.

Yeah, I should have gone more into the the trip, really, really. I'm not perfect, I'm trying to listen.

Yeah, go ahead, go ahead, goad. I'm trying to listen to like kind of your thought process and your philosophy around some of the questions while still playing and actively role-playing with you and and I'm so it's just interesting to where you're taking things and and figuring things out and keeping me accountable too and like ownership, cuz there's times where I was like, God, not not too many other not too many calls you're like not too many. Well, do you want to circle back in a couple couple weeks and jump on when you're actually ready? I thought that was I was just like I I would have let that slide because anytime the commitment or the ownership from the prospect starts to dwindle, you you have to bring it back because otherwise they will give you an objection at the end of the call.

Mhm. You have to pull them out of the discovery with them saying I am absolutely needing to do this right now.

Yeah, what about you, Nicole? What's your thoughts, thoughts or questions or feedback or anything?

I I'm just like, how the heck am I gonna get to that level that Josh is at? I've been doing it a while, but also bear in mind you don't you don't need to get to my level to make 40 grand a month, like my level got me to 100 grand a month, so even 40% of the level that I'm at, which you can do that pretty quickly if you if you really really concentrate for another 12 months, you you can easily get to a point where you're making 40,000, 50,000. Look at Skyler, Skyler's doing it, Manuel's doing it, like it's you don't have to get actually to my level. Like that prospect that MJ was playing on that one was was a harder prospect. It's it's not going to be the end of the world if you lose some of those prospects. Now, obviously, the goal is not to let prospects down. Ideally, you want to be able to help every prospect. This guy truly is going to benefit from this tax strategy and his family are going to benefit, but if you get that prospect one in 30 times and you close the other 29 prospects that are have a little bit more going on, you're you're still going to make 30, 4,000 a month in commission, you're still going to make a lot of money.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a good point. Any other feedback, guys? MJ, Nicole, anything else?

I'm just excited to rewatch this.

Yeah, me too. Me too.

Yeah, yeah, 100%. What what are you excited to rewatch? What is it about going through it again that you think you're going to pick up on that you're interested in?

Well, for me, like I like seeing the words and being able to see how you went and being able to be like, oh, like highlighting like, oh, he said this, and then putting like, I don't know, the way my brain works is I need to be able to visually see it to really understand like, okay, he did this here because this up here, and so it's kind of like fun to be able to break that down visually for myself.

Yep. What about you, MJ?

Yeah, I think the the biggest thing that I kind of took away from that is what do we actually solving for? Like I it's not surface level when you can dig in the way you have been because are we we're we're solving for a reduction in tax liability, but in reality we're solving for me not having to have the phone calls of being like [ __ ] I wish I could help out, damn, like if I do this might put me in a harder position, right? And so and that's what we're solving for, not the actual tax liability deduction, whatever the [ __ ] you know what I mean?

Correct. Yeah, you're you're solving for the very real reality that this guy is going to take another phone call in a week or two, be on the phone, want to help, but be like, I either help and stress myself out or I don't help and continue to feel [ __ ] cuz I'm not helping. Either way, you're [ __ ] in both options, and like this guy doesn't want to live that reality anymore. He wants to be able to get on the phone and if an opportunity presents itself to help or provide a new experience to say, yeah, I'll I'll make that happen, and there's no consequence for that. There's no oh well, I'm doing it, but then I'm going to feel stressed.

Yeah, that's that's what you're solving is the very tangible imagery-based experience of he's going to take another phone call with his family and it's being able to find that tangible moment.

Yeah, I have one quick question on that because yeah, go for it.

I I find that on an offer like on on mine that I don't get to like it's almost like I'm solving way too much logic. It's very logic-based, it's very like here's the here's the pathway as opposed to getting into those those mey conversations that actually move somebody to take action, and like I'll have like the perfect setup in terms of like here's what we're going to do for you, and it all makes sense and it's logical and it obviously showcases exactly a beautiful strategy, but at the end of the day here it's like I had a guy recently where I didn't dig into he has a 5-year-old, one-year-old, he works in the restaurant business and he wants to go into his own coaching offer, and the reason why he didn't move forward was because he didn't have enough time on his hands to to actually dedicate towards it, and I'm like, but I didn't dig into his 5-year-old, his one-year-old, that doesn't have enough time with this with him right now. The reason why he was doing that is to get more time, like the when then fallacy is like was prime for this kind of conversation, but I didn't dig into that because it was it's all logic-based from what I do. I'm like, how do I get into those conversations that are more meaty?

Well, if you've been given this script that's very logical and you know it's costing you sales, at some point you're going to have to digress a little bit, follow 80% of the script, but you're going to have to dig into some of these stories because as you just said, even presenting the perfect logical case still lost the sale. Yeah, because people can see something that's so logical but emotionally they just don't feel driven to it. That's that's the biggest argument as to why not having a real honest conversation about someone's personal life and why this matters to them and why it matters now and what examples or experiences are causing it to matter right now is the biggest reason that you'll never make more money in sales because there's only so many people and it's a very narrow band of people that are just going to give you their credit card and buy something high ticket because of the logical explanation. That's a very limited number of people that that are just going to see the logic and go, okay, I give you this amount of money, I get this this this and that makes me this money, here's my credit card. There's very few people that do that because it's not just about the finance is making sense, you know, if I give you 10 grand and you give me 100 grand, well that makes sense to everybody. It's also about the fact that people are doing a new action, something that they weren't about to do. To get people to take a new action, they need to have a burning motivation to take that action, even if logically it makes a lot of sense. That's why people can be out there in the world that are constantly overeating and getting fat and logically all they've got to do is just not keep overeating, but they don't have a motivational reason to do that. They haven't had someone have a real conversation, so they don't change. Logically, it's obvious, it's super simple, just don't keep eating crisps or Twinkies or whatever, but they don't stop because logic isn't logic doesn't get people to change their existing habits and behaviors into new habits and behaviors. You need a motivation that is then backed up by the logic that will get people to make a new action.

Yeah, any other questions, guys, or feedback or thoughts?

Not for me.

Can I ask one more question on a followup to that?

Of course, you can. There many. Yeah. Okay, so because sometimes L like The Logical sale with more of a sophisticated maybe a what I would say is like a professional buyer makes sense to go down that go down more of a just a very processed way of of the sales conversation as opposed to getting into what we just did here, and so I ident I'm starting to identify like opportunities where maybe I have somebody who's more of a bizop, they're just getting into the space and they're very early on where I can have more of those conversations with, but would you say that I should be trying to have more of those conversations with every single one of my prospects? Does that make sense?

So you saying is there a certain category of people that you should have more of an emotional conversation with over others?

Yeah, cuz I I feel like there's times where I'm going in that direction and I've gotten feedback like you don't need to ask these types of questions with this types of with these types of buyers. I'm like, ah, I don't know. How do you feel conflicted?

Why why are you conflicted?

Because internally I I'm like, well, I need to understand this like what's the motive behind doing this and or why do you feel you need to understand that because of some of the things we just shared like I think people need more reasons to do things C at certain times and like be able to get and get the result that they're looking for, they need actual reasons behind it as opposed to you do this, you get that. So what do you think the likelihood is that you close someone without without getting what you feel you need out of them on a sales call?

Not as high as I'd like.

Okay, well, then you know what you've got to do, need to do.

Yeah, yeah. Conflict, especially in, you know, having one manager that tells you to do this and then a sales mentor that tells you to do that. Conflict is what makes you whether you decide to follow what's true to you and what's true to your heart or whether you just bow down and just just keep doing what another person says. Now I'm not saying to disrespect your manager, I'm not saying to just ignore the sales process, but the conflict, the internal conflict of like, you know, one person's saying do this and one person's saying doing that, it's the decision you make through that conflict that's going to determine who you become as a person. You know, when your when your friends tell you, hey, man, you know, you're not hanging out with us anymore and you know going drinking with us and going and watching the game and you're like, yeah, well, I don't want to do that anymore, and there's that conflict. It's those moments of choice that are going to really shape you as a person. If you don't if you don't have that conflict, it means you're not growing because growing means forks in the road. Do I go this way or do I go that way, right? Yeah, so don't don't avoid that conflict, just realize it's it's one of your deciding moments in life is okay, do I want to have real conversations with people with everyone or do I want to have real conversations with some people or do I just want to have scripted conversations with everybody, and that that decider is going to determine what type of salesperson you become and the type of salesperson you become determines who you become in general as a person, and it also determines how much money you're going to make and your enjoyment of the process. You know, even if you made decent money doing what someone else is telling you, but you felt internally conflicted, trust me, you will self-sabotage all all of that money, like it would just disappear, and you be like, where the [ __ ] did it go? Because you're internally conflicted with earning an amount of money that a part of you still feels like you didn't earn it ethically or in the right way or in alignment with who you are. You're just you're just the money will just disappear somehow because that's the way the universe works, like you you earn money and you keep money if you feel in aligned with being that person that earned that money.

I heard that. Yeah. Anything else, guys?

I'm good. Thanks.

Yeah, I'm good.

Yeah, I'm good too. Thank you.

Yeah, you're very welcome. All right, guys, I'll see you soon. There you have it, two high ticket sales role plays. We nailed the discovery and two very different examples because a high ticket sales call is with a human being and a human being is different on every single call. The first call straight away the prospect opened up the door to go as deep as we needed to go and get into the pain, get into the truth, get into the commitment, into the ownership, and ultimately closed the deal in 10 minutes, 12 minutes. The second role play, very different type of prospect, a prospect that needed more logic, a prospect that had a story that was much deeper ingrained into the data, and actually even though I did the first version of the role play with Nicole and with MJ and pulled the guy out the discovery and would have gone for the cloth, in hindsight there was a little bit more that I could have done, which is why we jumped back into the discovery and went further into the story of the holiday and what that means and what the plans are for the future with this guy taking his family on more holidays or helping in other ways. There is so many principles cuz that was a long roleplay that you can master by watching this high ticket role play. You can watch it back again and again and again, but ultimately just as you saw with those two role players, it is practice. It is having the opportunity to role play with me with other high ticket closers that want to master a scriptless discovery that is going to allow you to get to a place where, as Nicole joked, uh you could close at the highest level, and if that is something that you want to do, if that is something you're committed to doing, you're not going to master the highest level of high ticket closing just from YouTube. You're going to have to join a mastermind where the standard is a standard of excellence and the premise is I'm here to go on the journey to mastery. If that is something that you do want to do, there'll be a link somewhere below this video, go to the website unicorncloser.com and join, take action, enroll. Remember that how you show up as a prospect in your life is how the prospects that you get are going to show up to your sales course. If you show up as a prospect that is indecisive, that is procrastinating, that is delaying, that is fearful, that is rationalizing that you know 5K a month is fine or 15K a month in commissions is is middle of the road and I'll settle for that, then you're going to get that same type of prospect. You have to have the humility and be humble enough to say I'm not where I want to be, these are the reasons I'm not where I want to be, and this is the place where I can go to become who I need to become in my skill set, my personality, my character, my habits, my routines, my beliefs, my emotions, my environment so that I can bridge that gap. If that is something that you want to do, the Unicorn closer Mastermind is the place for you, so go to the website, watch the video. If you resonate with that, if you align with that, join, take action, act now, join the Mastermind, and I'll see you on the inside, or if you don't take action, I'll see you in the next YouTube roleplay.