Transcription
Good day and welcome to Reality Check.
Before we start this week's show, here's a little bit about our sponsor for this week. Dr. Steven Gundry has this concept called caloric bypass. He says the key to losing weight and keeping it off is not in carbs or fat or even in probiotic-rich foods. Instead, it comes down to a specific switch you can flip in your body to flush out unnecessary calories.
By activating this specific process in our body, he says he's seen thousands of people dramatically improve their health, even at age 50 and beyond. Dr. Gundry has lost 70 pounds himself using his research, and he's kept the weight off for over 20 years and counting. His digestive issues are gone, his health is fantastic, and he feels younger and healthier today than he did in his 40s.
His video has been watched by over 20 million people to date, and you can watch and learn more about it at thehealthyfat.com/ross. That's thehealthyfat.com/ross. It's linked at the bottom of this video, and just click thehealthyfat.com/ross.
Now, let's get on with the show.
[Music]
Professor Gary Nolan, thank you so much for joining us. Can you firstly give me an idea of your credentials to talk about the injuries and the person that we're going to be talking about today?
So, I'm a PhD molecular immunologist in the Department of Pathology at Stanford University. My background has been in developing technologies to deeply understand how the immune system goes awry, whether it's in autoimmunity or cancer. Over the years, we've developed a number of instruments and approaches that are now used around the world for doing exactly that.
You've been involved before, I know, in special investigations into service personnel and intelligence personnel who suffered injuries from exposures of an anomalous nature. What can you tell us about those investigations?
So, those investigations started literally almost 12 years ago when representatives from the CIA and an aerospace corporation showed up at my office here at Stanford and knocked on the door, completely unexpected to me, with no prior arrangement. They said that they needed my help with a number of servicemen, probably a few dozen at the time, who had encountered everything from rashes, headaches, a number of other ailments, as well as in rare cases claiming that they had seen some sort of anomalous objects.
The long and the short of it was that after looking at the data that was provided to me by the people who came to my door on that day, I realized that this was not a joke. You can't fake the kinds of MRIs and CAT scans that I had seen that showed clear and acute and now chronic damage. I mean, you can't have the kind of acute damage that was represented on those data and not expect to have long-term consequences because of it.
So, the reason they had come to me was because they wanted to understand the inflammatory processes that might have been occurring in the blood. My laboratory at the time, and still today, actually has the world's best devices for looking at inflammatory processes in the blood.
What were you able to conclude from that research?
Well, many of the events that were brought to me at the time had occurred so long ago that there was no residual trace in the blood, nor would I have expected to see that. But in follow-ups with a number of the individuals, including one of the people about whom we'll talk today, again, there is no possibility of not having long-term consequences that are inclusive of autoimmune disorders.
In the rare individuals that I was able to follow up with over time, they also had these same kinds of long-term consequences. So, you have an acute injury of some kind that ends up being a long-term downside for you.
Professor, what can you tell me about the specific nature of the kind of injuries you were seeing back then when you started doing this research for the CIA?
So, whole body sclerosis, meaning patches of redness across the skin, dysregulation of the blood at the time we were seeing, meaning in some of those individuals long-term apparent imbalances in the numbers of cell types that you should expect to see in the white blood cells. We weren't able to go into gory detail about it again, given the long-term nature of this, but you know, certainly almost a form of PTSD, not only because of the events as they had occurred but the lack of follow-through by the Department of Defense and the Veterans Administration for their long-term care.
Actually, and interestingly, leading to now a document that's been put out by the government on anomalous health incidents that covers in an umbrella sense a lot of these kinds of disorders.
One of the cases I've investigated, and I know you've taken an interest in the subject as well, is the Rendlesham case of 1980. It's public information that a man called John Burroughs was exposed to some kind of an injury allegedly as a result of his exposure to an anomalous object in that event. Are you able to talk at all about anything that you know about that case?
You know, I really shouldn't because it does, although some, it's HIPAA protected. I am aware of things behind the scenes related to John that, you know, anything I could say probably touches on HIPAA-related knowledge.
What is, though public, and I can talk about is that Senator John McCain was able to overcome a block that the Department of Defense had initiated on John's medical records. Because that block was in place, John was unable to get the Veterans Administration to agree that he should be insured for the kinds of ailments that he was claiming.
Because of the intervention of some individuals through John McCain, they were able to overcome the block to the VA, release his medical report, which was sealed, and that allowed him to get the care that he needed, and that probably saved his life.
Is it a causation or a correlation? Are you able to say definitively that anomalous events, possibly involving UAPs, perhaps non-human technology of some kind, have they caused injuries, or is there merely a correlation of injuries that you've seen?
I've seen, unfortunately, no direct causation. I've seen situations where people have come to me and said the following occurred, and here are the medical events that I didn't have prior to this occurrence. So, all I have are stories that other people come to me with that are what you would call secondhand stories.
But I have seen the damage, and I can't explain what it is that the damage would have actually caused such damage absent some kind of radiation.
So, that was my next question. Is what you're seeing in some cases consistent with exposure to damaging gamma radiation?
Well, there's all kinds of ionizing radiation, gamma amongst them. So, any kind of, I mean, enough heat on you, which is a kind of radiation, it's just a different frequency, would cause different kinds of damage. It's the damage inside of the body that you're most worried about. I mean, there's surface damage, of course.
Let's talk about Jake Barber. You've had an opportunity, haven't you, to meet Jake and essentially take a history from him? We're talking about his condition with his permission, so HIPAA is not an issue here, but obviously, we're respectful of his privacy. What can you tell us about what he was exposed to?
Well, I've looked at all of Jake's medical reports going back to practically, I think, 1998, 2000, and I think he was 21 or 23 or so at the time. The acute injuries were obviously severe, including edema all the way down the arm, sloughing off of skin from the arm, long-term damage.
I mean, the report reads like a bit of a horror show, to be quite honest. I wouldn't say that his physicians were not responsive to the need, but what I saw throughout was a confusion on the part of the physicians as to what could possibly cause this.
I mean, they can drop it into a set of symptomologies, but they can't explain why under one particular causation you would get all of these things. Absent to me, what the first thing that came to mind was you were exposed to some kind of radiation.
Especially since I only came to know Jake in the last year or so, my strong recommendation to him at the time was we need to get a full workup of what it is, how it stands now. Because if this was radiation, I mean, one of the obvious consequences of radiation, especially something which would cause this kind of systemic effect, is cancer.
So, you need a baseline whole body MRI done so that maybe you don't have something now, but that you know the best thing in cancer is that you can see a change that has occurred over time. So, let's get that done.
I had him seen by one of the world's best rheumatologists to make sure that we had the blood drawn from him, not just as a standard white blood cell count and things like that, but to be able to do a full-on rheumatologic test for the kinds of co-factors and things that I know can be done with modern tests today that probably weren't, well, I know weren't done back in the day.
Do you think the secrecy surrounding the kind of operations that Jake did as a tier one operator confounded the proper medical treatment that he should have received, despite the perhaps good intentions of his doctors?
Actually, it's a great question. I would have to talk to Jake to see whether or not he was ever denied anything, but certainly, he wasn't given the kinds of advice that he should have been given.
I would say because the advice that I gave him was here are the XYZ things that you need to have done for you, and here are the kinds of people that you need to see. So, had the VA been on their toes, and had the VA, let's say, because of the kinds of situations and deployments that Jake was put into, you know, and the kinds of complaints that he came back with, any manager who had even an inkling of empathy or forethought would have said, "Hey, here's what we need to go have done for you, XYZ."
Especially as I understand it, a number of his co-workers in the deployments that he was in had similar problems. So, you're not dealing with a one-off who went home and somehow came in contact with something in the house, but you have four or five individuals all at once coming down with the same thing within a week or so after deployment. That's more than a coincidence.
So, can I just clarify here, Professor? You've been able to look at all of Jake's full military medical records, and you've been able to satisfy yourself as to the level of essentially what's described about what he suffered. What do the records show about the purported injury that he suffered?
Well, first of all, trying to read some of the doctor scribbling was hard enough. But, you know, it was very clear that there were acute injuries to the arms and the hands.
So, here are some of the consolidated findings. One of them that I know he deals with even to this day is alopecia, a form of something called migratory alopecia, hair loss that moves from one area of the body to the other.
That's consistent with a kind of autoimmune reaction, which is that the immune system takes care of something once, or you get some sort of local injury on one day or one week, and then that initiates an immune reaction in one place or another.
Another is a vascular rash, so skin eruptions characterized by small blister-filling things, again a kind of autoimmunity. But it's not an autoimmunity that you get with, you know, when you have one kind of autoimmunity. Usually, it doesn't come and show up as five different kinds of autoimmunities.
Here are some other ones, and this is related, in fact, to a form of infection with the yeast Candida, Candida albicans. You get something called chronic mucocutaneous candidiasis, and that's a form of yeast infection.
What's interesting about that is that basically means at least one of two things. One is that you have either an underlying immune disorder that's occurring, which is allowing for the Candida to grow on the skin, or you have some kind of disruption in the dermal apparatus and dermal protection, which means that you've had some sort of autoimmune reaction that allows for the skin to be broken.
The Candida lands, it's in our environment, grows, that forms and causes further issues, etc. And that sets up, you start with a brush fire, and soon it becomes a full-on forest fire.
That's one of them. It looks like a general autoimmune disease, erythematous maculopapular dry lesions on the hands and feet, all of these things adding up to a disrupted immune system that's been set off kilter and is unable to right itself again.
So, the only kinds of things that cause that are either intense exposure to toxins of one kind or another, an intense infection at one point in one's life that can set these kinds of things off, or some kind of consequential exposure to radiation of some kind.
So, that's what you've been able to deduce from the medical records. You've done a whole series of tests now, and you've obviously, over this...
I haven't done any tests. Tests have been done, but they have not provided him the results yet.
So, you believe that one of the plausible explanations for why Jake has the injuries that he's clearly suffered is that potentially he's been exposed to some kind of severe radiation?
Yeah, I mean, that's the easiest reach for this. Now, there are ways to test for that. There might be ways to test for, in the skin, an excess of mutation in the skin.
Now, interestingly, one of the things that Jake has, although it could be just due to intense sun exposure, is what are called atypical compound nevi. Those are these irregularly shaped brown spots that very often Caucasians have, and you're more likely to find them in people of Irish or Celtic descent.
But atypical compound nevi is a form of, it's a result of exposure to damaging radiation of one kind or another.
One of the anomalies, if you like, about Jake's story is officially in his DD214, he's only described as an aircraft mechanic, but it's clear from his service record and the fuller extent of the details of his service that we've been able to obtain from the documents and also from some of his fellow colleagues, he was clearly operating as an elite tier one operator in a very covert role with the US government. Is that your impression as well?
Yes. My interactions with Jake over the last year, including visiting him at a, let's call it a work site, clearly indicated to me that Jake's not just a helicopter operator. He's not a taxi, that's for sure.
His level of knowledge and the things that he was able to talk to me about that were not releasing or providing any information he wasn't supposed to provide, but the people with whom he surrounded himself and their level of activity and action, they're not just a conveyor of somebody's goods. They are deeply knowledgeable about this subject matter.
For me, watching and listening to the kinds of things that they did, the level of sophistication of things that are going on behind the scenes was eye-opening to me.
Let's talk about, in a limited way, what you personally witnessed. There was a summoning. There was a psionic operator brought to a location. We won't stipulate where. What did you see?
Well, I saw two things. One, I saw an individual who claimed the ability to me, which is even to me is almost unbelievable to hear that somebody claims to have that kind of capability.
But we also had somebody with us who was using electromagnetic summoning, if you will, basically putting out radio frequency that might or might not be attractive to alleged craft.
I personally didn't see anything in the sky or on the ground, but what I did see was an individual who, in the midst of attempting to call such an object, which again to anybody listening in my science colleagues who might hear me say this, was just, I don't even believe that I'm sitting here seeing this exactly at the moment.
At that moment, he said he was interacting with something. The individual on the roof who had the cameras saw something. Now, they didn't know, nor were they in contact with each other, but we could hear a commotion on the roof.
When everything was over and we had calmed down the individual who said that he had had some issues in the process of this summoning, we made sure that medically he was okay because on the team we actually did have somebody who was medically trained.
When we reviewed what it was that the person on the roof had seen, both by drawing and by videography, something showed up. I mean, it was fleeting, but it was clearly not a bug.
So, what do I have? I have a person who claims to be doing something. It was clear that he was in distress at the moment of the supposed interaction, and at that moment, something is seen.
What do you have? You have a correlation; you don't have a causation. And so that's it. But I was there not to provide any conclusions. I was there to make sure that everything that was being done was being done in a scientifically accurate way, as dispassionately as possible, and to be part of the advisor team to make sure that this was done in a way that at some point, if it ever wanted to be put together into a scientific paper, we had collected the kind of metadata required to say, "Well, we might not have a conclusion, but here is at least a story that tells us that the data which we're providing to perhaps some future event might be looked back to and said, 'Oh, well, what happened there worked, that didn't work, so let's try this again so that we can perhaps make it repeatable.'"
So, Professor, on the evidence you've seen, do you find it plausible that the US government is using psionic psychic operators to attract UAP, NHI craft?
I can only say what I saw. There was somebody who claimed to be interacting with something. Do I think it's possible? You know, we're already working in the world of the Elon Musks who are putting devices into people's brains to be able to talk directly to brains.
I have no problem imagining a technology a thousand years from now where even humans can interact with each other in some sort of pseudo-psionic manner. I don't know what it is that might be required to interact with a non-human intelligence, but what I can say is that the area within which we were working was absent of any possible overfly from commercial jets because it was a mandated area where nothing such could occur.
So, what it was that we saw wasn't a flyover. It certainly wasn't a bug. So, we can get rid of all of those opportunities. But the fact that the group with whom we were working were able to openly operate in this area because they had openly operated in this kind of area before and knew how to do it tells me that there's a process in place for individuals of this type to access where they're freely allowed to do what they're doing.
I think we can expect, as has happened in the past, that there may be attempts to disinform the public about Jake Barber. What are you able to tell me about your impressions of the authenticity and the honesty of Jake Barber as a result of your interactions with him?
Oh, I worked with him directly for a week, and anybody who thinks that he's other than what he presents himself as just should get out of the way. There's no reason to think of him as anything other than an honest broker at every level, ethical to the nth degree, empathic to a degree that I wouldn't, frankly, bizarrely expect as an academic elitist from somebody in a military capacity.
As such, he is far more human than many of the scientists with whom I have to interact every day.
These men, and we've interviewed Jake and his colleagues, including the man who was on the roof with the cameras, these men have been profoundly affected by what they've witnessed.
Yes, and again, you have individuals whose daily job is to protect the United States. I mean, that's their day job. That's what their day job has been for the last many years.
Anybody who thinks that these are not professionals who have something to say and are, in I think the most scientifically accurate sense, they've seen something anomalous. They recognize it as being out of place. They're willing to put their lives, their families, their jobs, their reputations on the line to point out to others that this is something that should be paid attention to.
I mean, that's just the very nature of forward movement. That anybody, scientists or government or anybody, would try to disinform or stigmatize that just is, to me, it's just a level of vile and disreputable behavior that I just don't understand how anybody could do it and say that just because it's my job to do it that I should do it.
They should just, anybody who that's their job, they should resign.
Let's be very clear about this, sir. Jake Barber and his colleagues allege that they have been party to an operation involving the luring of, and shooting down of, and retrieval of non-human technology, alien spacecraft. Do you find their accounts plausible?
I sat at dinner several evenings over beers and otherwise while we were partaking in this operation, and I heard nothing that would tell me that what they were telling me was not true.
It all seemed to fit together in a way that, in some of the details that I don't know what was relayed, but some of the details were so astounding to me. I felt like I was sitting in a science fiction movie until I thought to myself, "Well, if some of these observations are true that people are claiming to see or involve themselves with, what would you need to construct behind the scenes that is, that sensibly even in a science fiction setting, makes sense of all of this?"
What I heard was at least a story that tied it together, but the story that tied it together involved a level of government complicity and medical complicity from individuals who, how could you possibly subject some of these individuals?
I saw some of the medical reports again of other individuals who were part of these teams. How could you be complicit in doing this to some of these individuals and signing off on it? I mean, your name is right there. We know who you are, and you're still doing what you were doing before.
It just astounds me that the records are as clear as day. It's not some of these, especially the medical records, are not, "Hey, someone's telling me something." The medical records are there, and they're the same kinds of medical records that I got when the CIA showed up in my office.
It's that level of detail. All you can say is somebody isn't doing their job.
So, Professor, as Jake Barber describes it, he and his colleagues were asked to escort what he describes as a very large box on a flight, which brought this object, whatever it was, inside the box back to the continental United States. They were never told what was in the box, but he got very, very sick, he and his colleagues, in the days following their exposure, their close proximity to that box.
Now, are you able to say, are you able to make any kind of a conclusion at all about the nature of the radiation that they received? Was it anomalous, or are you able to reach any conclusion about the perhaps what might be the cause of that radiation?
Well, I mean, what you can say at the least is that there was a form of penetrative radiation because it was more than just skin damage. Some of the apparent damage went skin deep, right, or went deeper into the bodies.
Now, I haven't seen any MRIs from these individuals to look for the scarring, but the kinds of effects, such as the whole body depilation, loss of hair, and not just on the side of the body that you're sitting next to on the helicopter or plane, but that its whole body means that it probably penetrated through the body.
Right? So, you've got it with your back to you, you've got it in the front, but your eyebrows, the hair falls out, etc. So, penetrative generally means gamma, you know, or very high-level radiation.
It's not just something like alpha or low energy. So, I can't say what was in the box. Obviously, it could have been from a nuclear-powered airplane for all I know. It doesn't matter. Some sort of test vehicle.
But that they were not made aware of what was going to be in the box, that sounds unethical. That you're told to go pick up something which is known to be radiative, that's to me problematic.
Now, from the previous and unrelated work that you've done with the CIA, you've examined military service personnel who've been exposed to what sounds like anomalous phenomena, including potentially directed energy weapons of some kind. What you're seeing with Jake are similar types of injuries, correct?
Right. So, over the hundred or so individuals that we looked at, they had a panoply of different symptoms. The majority of those patients, 85 to 90% of them, of the literally 100 that we looked at, it was pretty clear that they had symptomologies that were so similar to Havana syndrome as it would be easy enough to say these are Havana syndrome.
Now, Havana syndrome is actually a syndrome in medical terminology. It's a set of symptoms. It's not like a disease like COVID causes a disease, Ebola causes a disease, and you have a specific set of expected outcomes in both those cases. Some of those outcomes could be death.
In a symptom or a syndrome, I should say, it's usually you have about 20 or so different symptoms, which you have to have, let's say, 15 of those symptoms to be classified under the syndrome.
So, some of the individuals, even those that we said were Havana syndrome, had sclerosis on their skin. So, whatever the radiation was that was being used caused damage to the skin.
Others would get headaches. Now, that makes perfect sense because if over the course of 20 years, whoever was using these directed energy weapons developed better and better versions of it, you would expect that the damage that it causes over those decades would be different. No problem there.
But when you have now a situation such as a radiation such as what Jake Barber was exposed to, it would fall under some of the symptoms of Havana syndrome but would have, in this case especially, long-term 20-plus year consequences of a disrupted immune system that has really basically, I'm surprised he can function as well as he does day to day.
What do you think of the ethics of the decisions made by the people who obviously made the orders to send people like Jake into these operations? What do you think of the ethics of the people behind these operations in deploying young men and indeed young women into situations where they have been exposed to dangerous levels of radiation?
You know, I mean, I understand that in the military, tough choices have to be made, and if the, and you sign up for a certain level of danger, all the way up to and including death. So, on all sides, I honor what they've done.
But I also think that there's an ethics of do no harm when you don't have to. In a situation where you could, you know, unless there was some desperate need to get to it before somebody else did or put other people in harm's way, to at the very least send them with the kinds of protective gear that they could have had to prevent what did happen sounds either unethical or an administrative oversight that needs investigation by Congress.
Because we shouldn't be putting people like this under such circumstances.
So, Gary, I know that you've taken an interest previously in a case, which was the RAF Bentwaters case at a British airbase, which the Americans were also occupying in around 1980. There were a number of military personnel who reported coming into contact with what they say was a craft of some kind acting anomalously in the Rosam Forest adjacent to a military base that we know carried nuclear weapons for the American military.
One of the personnel that was close up to the craft, in fact probably one of the closest, was an airman named John Burroughs. I'm aware that John Burroughs' medical reports were at one stage withheld by the American government, and they were declined to be provided to him so that he could get the treatment that he needed from Veteran Affairs, the VA.
What do you know about that case?
Well, certainly everything you said that you just told me there, I know about. I mean, I was working with individuals behind the scenes to try to get the relevant information to John McCain so that we could get his medical records declassified. They were classified; they just weren't withheld, they were classified.
What was happening was that Mr. Burroughs could not get the medical attention he needed because the insurance services in the VA wouldn't allow for it. So again, you have a situation where someone has been, let's say that whatever it was that was at that site was a US military test object.
Why would you put your military service people in harm's way? First of all, maybe they didn't know what the danger was, either the people putting him in harm's way or not. But then why would you subsequently feel that the issue was so important as to not allow for that person's medical records to be released?
What are you hiding? What's being hidden here? When it turned out that it required a senator in the US to directly demand to the Department of Defense to release it?
Or will it really does beg the question, Professor, doesn't it? Is the reason for the continuing non-disclosure about a non-human intelligence that's allegedly engaging with us really for the high-minded reasons that are often cited privately by the gatekeepers, or is it perhaps because they're worried about being held to account for the allegedly unethical and potentially illegal, if not criminal, things that we're talking about today?
Yeah, I mean, that to me is when I'm asked what might be the reasons for things being hidden. I don't think it's because the populace is going to go running screaming into the streets worried about, you know, non-human intelligence.
I think they're really still, as we see today, worried about what puts food on the table. I think you're right. One of the main reasons certainly could be we don't want this information out because I'm going to get in trouble, someone's going to get in trouble for something unethical.
Where's the paperwork that these people are filling out to make sure that the people that they're responsible to and for are being taken care of the way that they should?
And certainly, when it comes to the long-term consequences of human health, and then the health of their children. I mean, God, if you were putting a serviceman in a radiative position, they should be worried about what kind of things are happening to their children because they're going to have children, you know?
And that's, it's mind-blowing to me that somebody would try to hide this and not counsel the servicemen as to the dangers, not only to themselves but also to the children that they might have one day.
So, Professor, clearly there is an allegation that I personally find highly confronting and incredible at the heart of the claims being made by Jake and his colleagues. The allegation is that the United States government is secretly colluding with private corporations using what I called public operators, people with purported psychic abilities.
What do you think of these allegations?
Well, if they're true, it's probably one of the most extraordinary things I've ever heard. I don't know anything other than what I heard sitting across the table from the individuals claiming to be involved in this process and claiming what their history has been with the US government going back to their childhood.
I mean, it's just, I don't know what to think. It's extraordinary. I mean, the only place I can relate it to my own work is where I've been looking at the caudate, and the connections there where we did see in, let's call them high-functioning individuals, mostly very intelligent individuals, that this was the heart of where intuition happens.
We came to that conclusion independently of what was happening in the rest of the world, where simultaneous analyses by mainstream scientists had come to the conclusion that we did that day because of the work that we were doing with those patients.
This is the area where intuition happens. Well, what's another word for remote viewing or clairvoyance or whatever you want to call it? In a purely scientific sense, somebody with darn good intuition.
So, as I've said before, you know, if you wanted to know where such an ability might exist, might allege to be existing, that would be the heart of it in the caudate.
What we found, interestingly, is that people who had claimed high function in remote viewing were at the highest of the list of those who had this connectivity pattern.
So, there's something interesting there. Again, I don't have a conclusion as to what it is, but there's enough data there for me to say it's well worth looking into.
How could we perhaps turn this function on? Wouldn't you like to be able to predict which way the dice might roll?
The fascinating thing to me is that whilst you have one section of the US military denying that there is such a thing as psychic phenomena and telepathy, it's the CIA's own records that there's been a continuing investigation into the phenomenon since the 1970s.
The Stargate program that Hal Puthoff played a role in at SRI, they've never really stopped investigating the phenomenon of psychic behavior.
Well, it continued into the 80s and 90s in military programs that were eventually at one point called the Spidey Sense program, where what they were doing was they were identifying people in squads who the rest of the squad members said, "Hey, when Joe says don't go that way, we should go that way."
The people that they trusted. Now, maybe they were picking up something. I mean, a skeptic, and I'm a skeptic, they pick up something in the atmosphere that says don't go that way. It just feels wrong, and we go this way.
So, people who are survivalists by virtue of just good guesses. But, you know, there's something to be said for the primate that knows not to go down this path because there's a jaguar down that path, and you go down this path because it's safe.
You pick up something else that is in the ether, and by that, I mean something that isn't what you would call a natural electromagnetic interaction, but there might be something else going on at another level that the human brain is capable of understanding and manifesting into thought.
I'm perfectly fine with that until you can take it off the table as an option to say that all interactions are electromagnetic. Then it's a possibility.
I mean, we don't know how two objects at a distance in quantum interaction somehow communicate, you know? And that puzzles the world's best physicists to this day, and they call it quantum non-locality.
Well, what the heck does that mean? You know, it can mean a lot of stuff, but what it means is, as far as most people are concerned, it's some form of interaction at a distance without electromagnetic interaction.
So, that's really all you're talking about when you say psionics. So, you know, I don't know. I can imagine a lot of real-world ways it could be done without being dependent upon something that other people would call woo or magic.
I'm perfectly fine with something, let's call it psionics, something based that is just a form of communication and physics that we don't quite yet understand.
Maybe there's a way to interact with quantum interaction at a distance that somebody else has mastered and we haven't yet, but they're perfectly able to either use it to transmit or receive.
There is coming, isn't there, Professor, for what has been done inside what we loosely call the program. There are people who are going to have to be held to account for their decisions and their actions.
I hope so. Perhaps the new administration incoming will feel that there's a level of transparency that can be brought to this issue in a way that prior administrations couldn't.
I've certainly heard a lot of rumors and talk about it from the incoming members of the new administration, so I'm fully supportive of that if they decide to do so.
Because I'd like to go back to my day job. I'd like to go back to my day job, you know? My day job is cancer research. If there's nothing here, I'm pretty good at my job. Let me get back to it.
Professor, I appreciate you are a top-level international scientist, and you understandably will be skeptical and guarded in what you're prepared to say. But I've interviewed you previously, and you've been very forthcoming about your belief that, or your knowledge that, there is indeed a non-human intelligence engaging with this planet.
About here, though, from Jake Barber and his colleagues is on another level entirely. For the first time, first-hand witnesses to what we say is a retrieval program involving a non-human intelligence technology.
Tell me what you think about the credibility of these witnesses, and what are your impressions about the whole idea of a non-human intelligence engaging with this planet when we still are in a situation where the military, the Pentagon, is flatly asserting that there is no evidence of any kind of extraterrestrial intelligence engaging with this planet?
So, everybody that I've interacted with around this particular incident has been, they're either the best actors in the world and are all deserving of an Oscar next year, or what they're telling me is the truth.
I'm a good read of body language and personalities, and what I saw, the way in which they acted, they didn't just act as people as a part in a play. They acted in a way that showed that they'd done this before.
So, that told me that they knew what they were doing. They weren't doing this for the first time. You know, they don't bring a Stanford professor to a secure site to witness this so that, you know, there wasn't all of this effort put into it just for me. I was just there for observation.
There's no reason to expect that anything that they were doing was a lie or put on for show. It just lends further support to things that I've already said before, that the chance that all of this is by chance or is just a whole bunch of mistakes is diminishingly small.
It's to the point now where it's up to the true skeptics to come forward and say, "What are the standards that you're going to require for there to be proof? Does an alien or an extraterrestrial or a non-human intelligence have to walk out on stage and shake their hands? Is that your standard of proof? Or is your standard of proof that of a scientist, which says, 'I see preliminary data here and something which is even more than preliminary data that says, hey, it's time to put together a public response and a public program that allows the public to know what the data is,' rather than putting all the money into things that are going on clearly behind the scenes that you're just going to basically black out when any reports are being provided?"
I think those days are over.
Can I get a definitive statement from you, Gary, on what you think you know about the existence of a non-human intelligence engaging with this planet?
My personal experience, both with people and the things that I've seen, is that there's something here. My problem is, again, as a scientist, that's my set of anecdotes. I need to get it into a form that I can hand to another scientist who sits in the office next to me and says, "Here's the data that you can use."
There's so much data out there already that it's how do I compile a minimum list so that I can get a colleague's attention for the five minutes required to get them to say either it should be something that they follow up on or they can still go back to their day job.
I mean, you're trying to get me to say something that I just am not going to go over that line because if I don't maintain a certain level of skepticism, I just lose the credibility that I require for my scientific colleagues to feel that I'm a neutral observer.
I thank you for what you did give me, Professor. Thank you so much.
Yeah, thanks for watching. Go to joinnn.com to find NewsNation on your television provider, and please don't forget to click that red subscribe button to ensure you get more of NewsNation's unbiased and fact-driven news coverage.