"DISTURBING" Alina Habba on Epstein Files & Tate Brothers + "Putin Lickspittle" George Galloway

You know, I'm so glad you asked me about this. All the Twitter trolls and keyboard warriors—here's the situation, Piers. I do not condone trafficking, rape, or some of the comments that Andrew Tate has made. Listen, he is a social media presence; there are a lot of comments that aren't controversial. But in my case, I have sat through this where I know enough to know you do not post judgment on somebody until they have had a fair trial. We have flight logs, we have information, names—that will come out. Is it going to be shocking? I don't see how it's not shocking. Andrew Tate and Tristan Tate are in the United States. The brothers left Romania for the first time in three years last night after the Trump administration reportedly pressurized authorities for their travel ban to be lifted. Their lawyer said tonight that Trump is the reason they feel safe to return to the United States. The Tates face trial in Romania on allegations of rape, sex trafficking, and money laundering, all of which they deny. They're also under investigation in the UK, where they hold dual citizenship. Right now, they're in Florida, where Governor Ron DeSantis says they're not welcome.

Later on, I'm going to show my bombshell interview with White House counselor Alina Habba, whose support for Andrew Tate sparked a backlash from influential US conservatives. We also talked about the Epstein files and what she told me about the likelihood of criminal charges is already making headlines around the world, which I'll discuss with my panel. We'll begin tonight, though, with the latest special guest in the Oval Office. It's a great honor to have Prime Minister Starmer in the Oval Office. It's a very special place, and he's a special man, and the United Kingdom is a wonderful country that I know very well. I'm there a lot, and I'll be going there, and we expect to see each other in the near future. We'll be announcing it, but we're going to be discussing many things today. We'll be discussing Russia, Ukraine, we'll be discussing trade, and lots of other items. That's British Prime Minister Starmer at the White House for talks with President Trump on many things, including Ukraine. Starmer has played his Trump card: he'll raise UK defense spending to 2.5% of GDP by slashing the foreign aid budget, and he'll put British troops on the ground in Ukraine if there's a peace deal. But would he get anything in return? Both the UK and France say they need the US to help guarantee Ukraine's security if a deal gets done. So far, Trump says no thanks; that's Europe's problem. Maybe the big mineral deal he's due to sign with Zelensky tomorrow is the missing piece of the peace puzzle.

And from mineral wealth to mental health, the US remains gripped by "Doge Derangement Syndrome." Elon Musk was invited to Trump's first cabinet meeting yesterday, but not everybody was impressed. We—and I should say we also—we will make mistakes; we won't be perfect. But when we make a mistake, we'll fix it very quickly. So, for example, with USAID, one of the things we accidentally canceled very briefly was Ebola prevention. I think we all want Ebola prevention, so we restored the Ebola prevention immediately, and there was no interruption. So, is Doge moving too fast and just breaking things, or is it a force for good? We'll discuss that with my panel. Joining me now are the host of the Benny Show, Benny Johnson; star of the "Keeping It Real" podcast, Jillian Michaels; and co-host of the Majority Report, Sam Seder. George Galloway will also be joining us a little later. So welcome to all of you.

Benny, I want to start with you because I interviewed Alina Habba just actually before I did this debate with you guys because she appeared on your show only last month, and you had Andrew Tate on, and she was being very fangirly towards him. Which people are now looking at in a different light, saying, "You know, did she put any pressure internally at the White House to help facilitate the Tate being allowed to come to America?" She emphatically denied that to me; said she had nothing to do with it. But there's no doubt something's happened that has allowed the Tates to leave Romania and go to Florida, but there Governor DeSantis instantly reacting in a very negative way, suggesting he doesn't want them there. Let's take a look. Florida is not a place where you're welcome with that type of conduct in the air, and I don't know how it came to this. We were not involved; we were not notified. I found out through the media. What do you make of it? Well, Alina Habba is the spokesperson for President Trump, and she can obviously speak in her own right. Also, well done with the questions about Jeffrey Epstein; this is breaking my entire feed right now, Piers, so this is spectacular, and we really truly look forward to having these documents and having justice for the people who've seemingly been protected by the federal government.

Pests and some of the most famous people on Earth, including but not limited to members of the royal family, potentially Presidents, Bill Clinton, some of the most wealthy men on Earth, Bill Gates. Why has the federal government been protecting pests? I—right, and just to be clear for those—because those who have seen this—but biggest question—well, one of the things that Alina Habba told me, and you've alluded to this, just to explain to people who haven't seen this because it's running, as you say, riot on social media, is that she's obviously seen what is going to be released later in the day, and she says it's truly shocking and that she expects criminal charges to follow. And so that's, I think, a really bombshell development in this, and you know it goes to the accountability, as you say, but—but getting just getting back to the Tate for a minute, Benny, I mean, you know, I've interviewed Andrew Tate four times now, I think, Tristan once. They've always emphatically protested their innocence, but you know the normal justice process, and when we talk about Epstein and the fact that there's been no accountability, no proper process here, does it sit easily with you, given what you just said about the Epstein case, that you've got two guys who are facing very serious charges of sex trafficking, rape, and so on, who will now very likely never return to Romania or the UK to actually face any accountability for that? I'm not—I'm not suggesting for a moment they're guilty of the charges—that would have been determined by a court of law—but we won't get to that stage now. Do you feel comfortable with that?

Well, I mean, based on my reading of the voluminous news reports about what's going on in Romania, these charges have been thrown out, and so—and and they've looked at the files, and there's nothing in them, and so that's up for a Romanian court to decide. I—I don't speak Romanian; all I have is news reports to go on. So they were set free by the jurisdictions in Romania where these charges were brought. Well, they haven't been set—they've been allowed to fly—slightly different—and the UK where they face other serious allegations. Some of the conservative politicians here, led by Robert Jenrick, who recently ran to be leader of the Conservative Party, have been very scathing about this and think that the Americans should send the Tates back to the UK to face justice. So I think it is—it is—it's a pretty messy situation. If DeSantis froze them out of Florida, for example, and the UK is demanding extradition of them to face what they see as justice here in the UK for the charges against them here, it could get very messy. It could get very messy. It was very messy for Prince Andrew of the royal family, who had to pay an untold amount of millions to Virginia Giuffre, who was sex trafficked to him via Jeffrey Epstein. Yeah, so I want justice for all people who attack and who abuse children, period. And I want these court cases to be brought and proven out. A meme right now—it's a meme right now, Piers—where it's like, "Are you gonna be upset if somebody that you like is on the Epstein list?" And the answer for me is no. Right, that need to be—need to be charged and need to face justice, and that's why I'm so thankful that you had Alina Habba on your program. And just like I asked Pam Bondi four days ago about the Epstein list, and we were the first show to actually ask her about that list, and she says, "It's on my desk, and there are volumes in this list," and apparently, according to Senator Marsha Blackburn, this is just volume one of the Epstein list.

Jeffrey Epstein had his islands and his mansions in Manhattan and his ranches in New Mexico wired for sound. The FBI went and raided—talk about—talk about files of evidence—let's talk about files of evidence—the FBI went and raided these compounds and got terabytes of hard drives. Some of those hard drives were marked by Jeffrey Epstein himself, not by federal agencies, as insurance policies and evidence. What are they? Why haven't we seen them? Why has the FBI been holding on to those and been holding on to those presumably to protect pedophiles? Okay, who's actually in charge? Who can tell the FBI what to do? So these are—this is—these are the cases I agree. It's—no, it's obviously it has always been ridiculous to me that the only person who's been actually held to account for Epstein—because, of course, he killed himself, or otherwise he died in a prison cell—a lot of speculation about what may have really happened there—but the only person who's actually gone to prison as a result of it was Ghislaine Maxwell, who was his kind of madame and former girlfriend. Um, in relation—believe that Jeffrey killed himself? I don't know. I don't know. I mean, I—I just don't know. I don't think anybody knows. From a 5-foot-tall—I agree. The whole thing was very—the whole thing was very suspicious. Absolutely all lights turned off. I totally understand why conspiracies—conspir—I totally understand why theories have run riot about it. Who knows? We may never know. It's certainly very suspicious. Somebody knows, Piers. Yeah, sure. The point I was going to make about Prince Andrew—on Prince Andrew—I'm obliged to say this, but obviously he made no admission when he made his settlement with Virginia Giuffre. He paid a—it's reported $1 million—it's a very strange thing to do if you did nothing wrong, but it's clear—you know, to be clear, he hasn't made any admission of any guilt about this. Let me move to—to Sam Seder here. So there's two big things happening, both in similar territory here: one, the Tates coming to America and therefore will no longer, it seems, face any court accountability for the charges against them either in Romania or the UK if they stay in the United States; but DeSantis wanting to not have them there. What do you make of that first of all?

Um, I mean, I—you know, I—I don't make much of it one way or another. I mean, uh, you know, this is a guy who's been celebrated in right-wing circles, and um, you know, I don't have enough information to know whether he is guilty of what he's been accused of doing, uh, but uh, to the extent that you know I'm even aware of who the guy is, it's because he's been featured for so many years in right-wing talk shows and uh, feted in that uh, in those circles. So um, you know, I—I—I it sounds like DeSantis is mad at somebody, and it's—it's quite a coincidence that uh, with Donald Trump in office uh, that that these guys show up on our shore. But um, I guess uh, time will tell. And what about Epstein? You know, um, I—I'm interested in—in—in finding out what's in those files. I'm—would love to have a revisit of Donald Trump's uh, first labor secretary who made the initial uh, deal with Epstein back in 2008 as uh, Attorney General of Florida, talking about Alexander Acosta. Uh, I'm curious about that nexus, to be honest with you. Um, it's really unclear to me how Epstein was got such a sweetheart deal from uh, that guy, Acosta, and why that wasn't held against him by—by Trump when he appointed him labor secretary. But maybe we'll get some answers if the—these documents and uh, information is released. Okay, Jillian, I will come to you for your reaction to those two stories. Just going to—just take a couple of minutes to talk to Steve Hilton, who's joined us—Fox News contributor and David Cameron's former advisor.

Steve, great you found time for us. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Just specifically on Keir Starmer, the prime minister of obviously uh, my great country and yours, uh, there uh, at the White House today. The big talking point is clearly going to be Ukraine. What do you think is going to happen here? Well, I think the—the fact that Keir Starmer has made his announcements about increasing defense spending, stepping up in the way that Donald Trump wanted the Europeans to do—that was the whole point of the Trump argument, which is to say, "You Europeans need to step up." Keir Starmer has done that, and so that's a positive um, beginning to the conversation, if you like. I've got some um, uh, concerns really about the relationship between these two. You and I both know the president well, and he's a—he's very much a relationship kind of guy. I don't know Starmer personally, but looking at him, he's not on its face the kind of individual that I think President Trump is likely to set to establish a warm rapport with. Um, frankly, seems to me he's a kind of pompous, uninteresting mediocrity, not the kind of person that Donald Trump is going to immediately warm to. So I don't know how the relationship is going to go, but on the substance, I think it's promising. I think Starmer has played a—a Trump card, for want of a better phrase. By—when they uh, were talking to the press just now, he revealed he got a letter from the King—King Charles—which he's given to Trump uh, which will doubtless be very positive, and Trump, as we know, is a sucker for the British Royals. His mother, who was born in Scotland, was a massive fan of the Royals, and Trump once told me he remembered watching uh, you know, his mother waxing lyrical about the royal family. She'd actually watched the um, the coronation of the Queen back in the 50s, uh, etc. So I—I think that playing the royal card's a smart move. Yes, and I think that—I don't know um, whether he had a hand in it, but the new ambassador uh, to the US, Peter Mandelson—very smart operator, whatever you think of his politics—and I think his—his role in all of this I think is only going to be positive because he really does understand how to get things done on this kind of international level, has good relationships in Washington, and I think can really help smooth things along. So I think that is a net plus for the UK in making this whole thing work.

This breaking news story about the Tate brothers being allowed to travel from Romania to Florida and Governor DeSantis reacting very negatively to that—what do you make of this? Well, I—I think the whole thing is bizarre. I think that Ron DeSantis, you know, is—is—is someone who—who regularly wants to assert his independence—his independence from Donald Trump, his independence from what you might broadly call the MAGA movement—and I think he's just, you know, laying his claim to that. Um, I think we need to understand a little bit more about how it happened so quickly and what's behind all of that. Um, but as—as you've been discussing, I mean, this is a very—very, you know, popular character, but in many ways a really unsavory one, and so this is not something that anyone, I think, should be celebrating. But we'll have to see how the process plays out. Yeah, and—and as things stand, he and his brother are innocent until proven guilty. The—the controversy about it, right, is that they're likely to never face any courtroom now either in Romania or the UK where all these allegations have come from, and that's what is grating with people. Robert Jenrick, who's a—a big leading member of the Conservative Party in the UK, has come out very angry about this, demanding that the Americans uh, basically send them back to the UK. But I don't think that's going to happen. Well, I don't—I don't exactly, and I don't think that um, anyone is going to want to expend political capital on this. That's the other aspect of it. I think it's just one of these things that, you know, once it's happened, it's hard to see anyone here in America really fighting to kind of reverse it. DeSantis is unhappy because it's Florida involved, of course, but I don't see that that's going to change anything in the—in the fundamental point that you—you're rightly making, which is, you know, we can't actually establish, you know, to everybody's satisfaction the truth of all of this until there's an actual legal process that's playing out, and it's not going to play out, it seems. Yeah, uh, we'll see how—I mean, the interesting thing there will be—did the White House put pressure on the Romanians to allow them to fly? That has been emphatically denied by Alina Habba, who's the counselor of the president, who was on one of my other guests today—Benny Johnson's show—last month talking to Andrew Tate in a very favorable way. She says there's nothing to do with her, but it will be interesting if it turns out the White House did put pressure on them how that plays out for the administration.

Steve, great to have you on. Thank you very much. Yeah, good to be with you, Piers. Thanks. All the best. But we—back to the panel. Let me talk to Jillian Michaels. Jillian, these two breaking stories, and—and they're—they're different, but they're connected as well. They both involve allegations of sex trafficking. Epstein's case—clear uh, proven evidence of that—um, what do you—what do you make first of all—the Tates? Do you have a view about them? The Epstein tapes? I don't think we'll—we'll ever get—I don't think we'll ever get the full story. I think we deserve it. I would love to know. I'm hopeful uh, but not optimistic, if you will. Like, I just don't see it happening because I think it will be so freaking scandalous. I absolutely think he was killed, and I think it's ridiculous to think that he killed himself, given all of the evidence we have on this. And when it comes to the Tate brothers, I would love for them to see their day in court. I think it's necessary. I personally find them to be despicable characters. Anybody who casually throws around the words, and I can do without. Um, I've lived under DeSantis's governance; I enjoyed it quite immensely. He has a pretty squeaky clean reputation; he's a dad, he loves his wife, there are no scandals surrounding this guy, and you can understand why he wouldn't want these two guys in his state or allow Florida to be dragged into what could become a controversy if, in fact, the White House pressured Romania to let these guys over to the United States. I think that is going to be the key question, and we'll have to see whether that was the case or not.

Benny, let's turn—turn to the big picture of why the British prime minister is in America at the White House with Donald Trump. So far, their exchanges have been very cordial. I've been watching a bit of it, um, and ultimately they're there to talk about Ukraine, and President Zelensky from Ukraine is due to be—potentially—the White House tomorrow to ratify this deal over minerals. Do you think this is a neat way to resolve what has been a very complex and very bloody war? I mean, the UK is a mess right now politically, right? Like, is the—the Reform Party is one of the most powerful parties in the UK, and if there were an election held today, there's a real argument that it would win the prime ministership. So it's a wild and turbulent time. I mean, Keir Starmer—first off, is that really a real name? Like, I don't even know how to pronounce it. And then uh, secondarily, this guy's like—has a talk—you want to talk about a real scandal, Piers? This guy covered up rape gangs. No, he denies that. He denies that. Sure. Well, there's no—well, there's no—yeah, but I think a lot of Americans—to be honest—hang on—hang—hang—hang—hang on, Benny. These things actually happen. A lot of American commentators have said this stuff on social media, but when you say it on my show, let me just respond on behalf of my country. There's been a lot of spewed about this; there's no actual evidence that Keir Starmer, for example, ever did what you just said. Um, similarly—but is there evidence that this occurred? There's obviously—clearly occurred—but he was director of public prosecutions—occurred—and it's—it's horrific. I—I think it's horrific. In this country with Jeffrey Epstein, I think it's horrific. I agree. I—you know—right principles—it's just about—so like—I—I just—you don't want—you don't want—you don't want monsters who are predators, of course, here in the country and—and—and—and so listen, there is—there is somewhat of a connection, but I understand—nor do I—appears—nor do I pretend to be some type of expert on geopolitics. I focus very much closely here at home, and I appreciate Sam actually bringing up Alex Acosta, saying that there were higher powers that forced him to give Jeffrey Epstein a plea deal. Who the hell were those higher powers? Sam's right when he brought that up. I think that's insane, and I'd like to know. Yeah, uh, that was during the Bush era; that was in the year 2008 when that decision was actually made. Yeah, I agree. So yeah, again, I—it's—I think that the guy's in big trouble. I think Trump's being magnanimous right now. We were just at the White House for Kash Patel's swearing-in. Trump is in a very, very good mood. I think he's doing his best to like bring people into the orbit uh, and he's—he's being Trump, right? So he's—I think he's trying to—to strike a deal and make it work with the UK—our oldest ally, right? Yeah, I mean—Sam, let's talk for a moment about the other big thing that's going on, which is this whole Doge uh, stuff with Elon Musk. You um, I think posted that the idea that Doge is in any way about efficiency is absolutely a joke. They're not doing an audit; they're destroying the apparatus of our government. What—what do you base that on?

Well, um, audits are done regularly of—of agencies by uh, inspector generals. The first thing they did was to fire all those inspector generals and not replace them. Uh, b—um, audits that lead to firings within a couple of days are obviously not being done. Um, the notion that this is about efficiency when you're laying off thousands of IRS agents when it is well known that every dollar spent at the IRS returns for the government six or $7—you're clearly not talking about efficiency here as measured in any other way other than allowing uh, wealthy people to get away with cheating on their taxes. Um, I mean, I could go on, but there's absolutely no evidence that there's a single audit going on. To the extent that they've saved any money uh, it has been largely dismissed as clerical er—er—errors on their part, and we still have no substantiation about it. So it's—hang on—that's not—that's not true. I mean, some of the stuff that came out about USAID, for example, some of the way that American taxpayers' money was being squandered on ridiculous projects—wait a second—that's—that's—and it wasn't insignificant sums of money—wait a second—you—you can determine that it's—you can have an opinion that it's squandered. I can have an opinion that it's squandered, but it's been appropriated by uh, the Congress, and in America we have actually both statutory, constitutional, and uh, court cases that say the president of the United States and the executive branch cannot decide unilaterally that they're not going to appropriate money that Congress has appropriated. I mean, the—the line-item veto has been found to be unconstitutional. We have the Impoundment Control Act from 1974. We have *Train v. City of New York* from 1974, which is a uh, Supreme Court case which enforces that what they're doing is fundamentally illegal. I mean, you may think that some of the spending is uh, not worthy; I may think it's not worthy, but that's just not the way our government works. Okay, uh, Jillian, you were shaking your head there because it doesn't seem that the government is working as a layman when the USAID is exposed in the fashion that it has been, and all of a sudden we have this transparency that we've never had in my life. Was it hidden at all? None of this stuff was hidden at all. It's just—so you're telling me that the average American knew that we were funding freaking operas for trans people? The average American was interested in what USAID was supporting? They could—you really believe that? Do you really believe that that people knew this and this was common knowledge? 100%. Some of this was funneled for the CIA. Well, actually, you know, the—the truth—you're both—you can both be right here, right? Sam is right that it was there to be found, and Jillian's right that absolutely nobody told the American people about the specifics. So actually, you can both—what happened in—in our process of government—no—understand—I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm not saying it wasn't there. I'm not saying you—it wasn't there to be found. But Benny, it was only when Elon Musk and his young team of uh, of guys with their sabers got into it, they found this stuff, right, and told people—find it—they just made—they publicized it. Well, exactly. That's how the—that's how the American—that's how the American—have authority to cut it. So Congress—Republicans control every house of Congress; they control the presidency; they could pass a bill tomorrow saying we don't want to fund these things. But what's happening when they cut USAID is you've got literally 400,000 uh, meals for children who are technically wasting away—it's in Africa—maybe my guests don't care about that—but the fact is is that they're sitting in warehouses in Rhode Island and in Georgia right now—food that can't—is pre-digested practically because these kids are starving—and it's sitting in warehouses; it's going bad, and they have no way to—to ship it, okay, because USAID has been shut down. All right, Benny, I'm sorry, that's not constitutional or legal.

Benny, incredible. So I've heard the Constitution thrown around a lot here. All right, let's talk about Article II of the Constitution. The executive branch has a clause called the Vesting Clause. The Vesting Clause makes one single man—that is elected by the whole American people—the only position in the federal government that has the entire whole of the country elect him is the president of the United States, who is vested with the power to oversee the executive, and that includes Congressional spending; that includes the functionaries of the government, including the commander-in-chief; there are appointed judges; there are elected at state and local levels—members of Congress—but only the president is elected by the whole American people. Now, I have a giant map in my studio. I don't know if your production team can pop it—there it is. This is what America decided in 2024—in a landslide—and with the popular vote—the whole of the American people decided to vest a single man—Donald Trump—to hunt down waste, fraud, and abuse because while maybe uh, there are some type of programs that you might view as just—what I view as just—is feeding the American people—what I view as just—is filling the potholes, educating, healthcare, and the capacity—Congress cut food—and so what America voted for was America First, and transgender operas in Chile aren't exactly America First. And to say—you said a lot of words, but you've said nothing. You haven't addressed the actual—the Constitution, the Supreme Court cases, the Control Act—none of that. You can say that you don't think it's right—feed starving children in Africa—that's your—st—children—Donald Trump—I can't believe—going st—it does—I mean, it does other things that you don't like also does this—in the room—money feeding starving children—or let Jillian speak for a moment. Jillian—Jillian, the feeding starving children thing is such a freaking red herring. So first of all, the vast majority of this USAID bloat and corruption does not go to that. Second of all, we have children starving here in America. But third of all, and what you don't know and what you have not looked into, okay, is that—read a book—it's called *Save Three Lives*, and it's by the Rodale family, and it has to do with the fact that our Big A companies went into the developing world to addict their soil to our GMO crops. It's a money-laundering game. They can grow their crops in their soil far more efficiently and did for thousands of years before ConAgra and Cargill and Monsanto and ADM went in. You just don't know that because you haven't done your homework. So you're like, "Oh, there's children starving in Africa," but really it is about billions of dollars going to Big A. That's what that's really about, and I've seen it firsthand when I went to South Sudan and stayed at a refugee camp. So don't—don't play your starving children card. I can't—well, listen, it's not my card; it's just simply the reality. And the fascinating thing about your—your game is like—nobody's empathetic—starving—we're talking USAID—USAID uh, is a—a percentage point—like literally less than one percent of the US budget—but because there is this—h—attitude amongst the—well, I—I frankly, I—it—I—it—it's not just USAID. I don't like them cutting the IRS; I don't like them cutting the EPA; I don't like them cutting uh, Labor Department; I don't like them cutting the National Labor Relations Board; I don't like them cutting uh, the FDA—you like the level—USDA—like the level of debt your country's in—I—I—I don't think it's as much of a problem as—as you do, but here we—we know the debt uh, shot off like a rocket with the—with the Bush tax cuts and then with the Trump tax cuts, and they want to extend those. And so if we want to deal with the debt and if that's a genuine concern, we can go back to the time in this country where we had the greatest economic expansion during the 50s and the 60s when we had a top tax marginal rate of 90%—of every dollar that would be earned over $470,000 today—it would be $3 million—and if these guys are very concerned about the debt and deficit, we have a way of raising that money—can go back to the greatest economic time of this country. So if that's genuinely their concern, uh, we have that power to do it. I mean, that—we're not spending as a—as a function of GDP—we're not spending uh, uh, significantly more per capita than we were in—in those years. The—the problem is is that we don't have the revenue. There's been huge tax cuts for millionaires and billionaires and—and—and presided over by two uh, uh, uh, Republican administrations over the past 20 years. Okay, Benny, on that point—respond.

Years—I love it—I love it—is my fa—this is my favorite argument I've ever heard on your show. I love it. Go to the American people. I—Sam, I beg of you—join the DNC—run for DNC chair—I'll do anything. Okay, I want your ideas to be the ideas that Democrats bring to the midterms, into the 2028 election—more IRS agents—raise taxes to 90% of wages—I love it. Sam, how do I get 90%—every dollar—how do I do it? Where can I—where can I donate, Sam? It's the greatest argument ever. You're right, Sam—quite well in terms of Poland uh, and when Americans see what wealth disparity looks like in this country today—when they actually see the uh, the—the wealth disparity—we've seen it—looks like a—looks like a federal government that's $37 trillion in debt—spending money on—total—you don't know what wealth disparity means—and—and absolute and total fraud. Hey, Sam, why don't you ask—why don't you answer a—you can Google it and find out. Hey, hey, Sam, why don't you answer a quick question for me? Why are the richest counties in all of America the five major counties in the DMV, right around Washington, DC? Can you explain to me what did those counties do? Are there some mineral deposits there? I don't know about—did they strike oil? Is there some type of rich industry created around—maybe you can answer me that question. Why are those filthy rich? You don't seem to like rich people, so maybe explain why. I can answer that question. What does DC—you want me to answer, Sam? It's lobbyists—it's lobbyists—like all of the ones that have been appointed to Donald Trump's uh, cabinet and to political positions—rich lobbyists—lobbyists for all sorts of these industries that you supposedly have a problem with. I mean, where all the money is being made—it's not being made by uh, federal workers—it's being made by lobbyists, and those are sent by corporations. If you will join me as part of my campaign that you're interested in—in me running the—the Democratic Party and calling for uh, Donald Trump to fire all the lobbyists he's hired so far—it wouldn't leave many people left in the government uh, but uh, if you'll join me with that, we can—we can start to—to chip away at that problem you have with the—the counties around DC. We've just got some—some breaking news from this uh, Keir—Donald Trump uh, encounter at the White House uh, in the Oval Office. Trump invited JD Vance to expand on his criticism of the UK for its free speech issues and uh, alleged infringements in recent times, um, and he said, "Sitting opposite Keir Starmer, we have a special relationship with the UK and our European friends, but there have been infringements on free speech." Uh, Starmer hit back, saying, "We've had free speech for a very long time in Britain; it will last a long time, and we are very proud of that." A bit of a battle. Benny, we talked uh, just now uh, about what was

See, I would love to see George Soros be subject to the same tax I would. For every billionaire, we all, I think, broadly agree about this. So let's just—I just have a little time out. I'm going to bring in another guest to join us. It's the host of the mother of all talk shows and former MP, George Galloway.

George, always a pleasure to have you on, unsent, particular when you spent all afternoon spray-gunning me on social media about how you're going to rip me to pieces. And, as you often do by the way, as you often do by the way, woefully mischaracterizing me as some kind of Starmer fanboy when I spent almost all of his tenure as prime minister hammering the guy. The only thing I've really agreed with—the only thing I've agreed with—is about UK and Boris Johnson. You're a fanboy for him and Boris Johnson. Don't mischaracterize me. On the war in Ukraine, you're—specifically on Ukraine, I agree with both Johnson and Starmer. That is true, but that does not make me a fanboy for either of them. They have many things I've hammered them over too. But on that point, you're wrong, and they're right about Ukraine.

Well, you say that, but I'm on the same line as your friend Donald Trump and the American Administration. And it's really come to something when, having spent a lifetime myself fighting against—against NATO and American wars—it's the Americans that are trying to stop the war and Piers Morgan, Boris Johnson, and Keir Starmer who are trying to keep it going. You've got—you've—you've got a lot of Ukrainian blood on your hands. You have lied about this war from the beginning. Vladimir Putin actually—Vladimir Putin has the blood on his hands of Ukrainians. Vadir, have a monologue if you bring on a guest. Guest speak, years. If you're—if you're going to lie—if you're going to lie to me, I will hold you to account. You have lied about the origin of this war, about the duration of this war, about the course of this war. And now, having caused—you and your war party—the death of a million Ukrainians while claiming to love Ukrainians, you now calling for British lives to be lost. What a load of absolute—that constitutes—that constitutes close to a war crime.

Listen, listen, get off your Putin fanboy hat for a moment. Well, you see, there you go. I'm going—I'm going to respond. Anybody who disagrees with you, resp—fanny, can I respond, please? Why don't you listen to Donald Trump? I resp—told you yesterday, can I respond? Donal—well, can I respond or not? Donald Trump told yesterday that joining Ukraine—forget about it—that's the cause of the war in the first place, which I've been telling you from the beginning. Yeah, okay. Let me respond, if I may. Can I respond, George? Sure, okay. Donald Trump, who I know well—I've been a friend of his for 20 years—good and bad, we've had some up times and—and bad. Spoke to him a few weeks ago; we had a great conversation. But he's absolutely, utterly wrong when he categorizes this as something that Ukraine started. Absolutely wrong to call Zelensky a dictator. The real dictator is Vladimir Putin. Three years ago, he illegally invaded a sovereign, democratic European country and started murdering with impunity Ukrainians. The Ukrainian people, to everyone's astonishment, managed to repel that early invasion by Russian forces and are still repelling them three years later. They've reached an impasse where there's been little movement on the battlefield now for many months, but hundreds of thousands on both sides are dying. It's a—it's back to World War I scale of losses, and it has to end. I want the war to end, like Trump does. I don't like his categorization of Zelensky as a dictator. I don't like the way he's trying to make out that they started this war when it was Russia, but I do agree with him that we need to have peace. And I actually think he's inheriting the situation, and I think his way to try and forge peace by doing a minerals deal with Ukraine, which should satisfy his critics—back in, particularly the MAGA critics who don't like the way they've wasted, as they see it, all these billions on Ukraine—this way they can recoup that through the minerals. I think it's a smart business deal by Trump if that happens. I think there's a general acceptance you have to have the war now frozen on current geographic lines, so that Russia would keep the territory it's taken, but not have sovereignty over that, and Ukraine can try and politically get back the territory later because it would retain sovereignty. We'll see if that ever happens, um, but don't—don't, please, with a straight face try and tell me that Russia did not start this war three years ago. I know the history; I know what happened, and I know all the background to this. But the idea this is somehow bloody Zelensky's fault and Ukraine's fault is an absolute joke.

Blame me. That was a long response, Piers. I hope I'll get as long to respond to your response without you interrupting me. You're going to regret it when, very soon, Zelensky is sitting in a beachfront somewhere counting his ill-gotten gains and all the secrets of the rampant corruption between the Democrats and the Zelensky regime begin to tumble out of the cupboard. This war did not begin three years ago. You very well know that it began in 2014. You very well know that it began with a coup against the elected president of Ukraine, backed by Victoria Nuland and the administration at that time and supported by you. You very well know that the criminalization of the Russian language, which followed hard on the heels of that coup, was the proximate reason for an uprising in the east of the country amongst Russian-speaking, ethnically Russian people. You very well know that Zelensky and his predecessor rained down shot and shell on the people of East Ukraine for eight years before Putin intervened in 2022, and that 14,000 people, most of them women and children, were killed in that onslaught. You very well know that Zelensky was preparing for a—a final onslaught, a final solution. And while I'm on that subject, you're always telling us how much you love the Jews. You're supporting a regime which puts up statues to Nazi collaborators, to generals of the Galician division of the SS. You are—you know that, right? You know Z is Jewish, right? Do you? But that's like saying there's no racism in America because Obama—so a Jew—so you're calling the Jewish leader of Ukraine a Nazi? Is that your position? No, I'm not, but the regime is. You know very well, all over Ukraine, the—the statues and the heroization of Bandera and the SS in Galicia and the mass murderers of Jews, including Bab—are—are respon—to that. There are, proportionately, as you know—to quote you, I'll start this by saying, as you know—as you know, there is a tiny percentage of people in Ukraine who are neo-Nazis, as there are, by the way, in many of the neighbor—in countries, including in Russia, right? And they are not putting up these stat—they are not—they are not—they are not—they're calling liaries—let—calling University—WIS after—let me finish. They are—they are not—let me finish—let me finish—they are not a significant number of people. And for you to call the Jewish leader of Ukraine somebody who is leading a regime propping up Nazis is despicable—despicable. That's—I've already said to you, that's like saying there's no racism in America because Obama was briefly the president of the country. The entire western part of Ukraine played a decisive role in the mass murder of Jews and Poles and others in the Second World War, and now they are herois—the heroes of the SS and the other collaborating forces. Number of people do that as you—tiny number. All these things become clear. Let me ask you why do you—why do you—why do you support—counting his money. You're going to be sorry for all the heroization of him you have done. You know what, George, you might be also sorry for propping up a despicable Russian dictator who illegally invaded a sovereign, democratic European country. You might look at yourself in the mirror in a few years when he carries on—Putin—invading other countries, which he will, because this was never about Russian speakers in Ukraine. This was all about trying to restore the Soviet Union. He's a despicable tyrant who will prove people like you to be useful idiots in this war. Why doesn't—why doesn't Donald Trump agree with you? 'Cause he's wrong. Well, you know, you have been up his ass all of these two decades. You've kissed his feet; you've licked his boots; you've fawned upon him. You have been his super fan. And now, on this fundamental question of our age, is entirely wrong.

Well, no, he's wrong to—for—is wrong to call Zelensky a dictator, make out he's the perpetrator of the war. Yes, he's right to forge peace. He's right to—and by the way, I ham—by the way, I hammered Trump so much over things like the COVID pandemic, January 6th, stolen election. He didn't talk to me for six months. So this idea I'm always sucking up to him, it's complete lies. Everybody watching—everybody watching—knows you are Trump's biggest ass-kisser. I like Donald Trump. I know you like him, and on many things—on many things I like him, and on many—al—question—the biggest question in—in politics in the world today—he's got it completely wrong. No, you didn't hear me. Why didn't you listen to what I said? What do you mean I didn't hear you? I—I've literally said to you, on his plan to get peace, I agree with him. I don't agree with him about calling Zelensky a dictator, and I don't agree that it was Ukraine that started the war. You do, because you're Putin—Ukraine was the most corrupt country—more corrupt than Russia—before corrup—Russ—by *The Economist*, by everybody who knows things. Listen, Jo—V—the Biden corrup—vad—Putin will turn out to be Vladimir Putin. Stop parroting these things. What is Vlad—regret it? It is—Ziny—tell me about—you can't do it. Cannot—you will not criticize—or daughter—whoever they are—now—W—criticize Vladimir Putin. American oligarch. You won't criticize Vladimir Putin. Look at you, how pathetic. In the corruption in Ukraine—no corruption in Russia—all about it soon—no corruption in Russia. I'll tell you what, your mate Donald Trump is going to open every book, every drawer, every filing cabinet, and you're going to be embarrassed. Okay, final question, George. Can you think of anything negative to say about Vladimir Putin or not? Uh, well, I wouldn't have voted for him, as I told you. You would have voted for him. I—I would have—I would have voted—all—I would have voted for the leader of the opposition. I got it. So you can't think of anything negative to say about the single most ruthless dictator in the world, and that says it all, George. Anyway, always a pleasure having you on. See, thank you very much. I appreciate it. Um, let me just quickly go to my panel for their reaction. I mean, as you can tell, George and I didn't wholeheartedly agree with each other, um, although mainly because he was trying to mischaracterize my position on this. I don't have—have a problem with what Trump's trying to do with the peace deal. I have a problem with how he's characterizing this. Sam, let me just ask you about that. Um, I—I think it's—I don't think Trump has a lot of choice or options other than the—the path he's pursuing here to get peace, and I applaud him for doing it, um, but I also think that the way they're trying to characterize this as all coming from Ukraine is utterly disingenuous.

Yeah, I mean, it's—it's just simply a matter of fact that Russia invaded Ukraine. I mean, it's—uh—anybody who was sentient was aware of that. I mean, I—I—I—um—I hope there is peace. There—I think the—mineral rights—um—deal is—um—is both a—um—is—is really, I think, more of a paper tiger than anything else. I don't think that there is—I don't think that there's really much value in those—rare—mineral—rare minerals, as they're called, um, but if it—if it—um—allows for—Putin to realize that there's a commitment by the United States and it causes—peace to—to break out, then I'm—I'm all for that. Um, I, you know, I would appreciate if the United States was not in a position of—of—uh—extracting other countries' resources. Um, you know, we have an obligation to Ukraine because of the 1993 agreement—that led to Ukraine giving up the—was it the third largest—nuclear arsenal in the world—that we would protect them from an invasion by Russia. And so I think there's an obligation we have, but—um—you know, I think if the Ukrainian people want peace—which my sense is—is that they are—after three years of war—are—are probably exhausted—by this—um—then I hope—this is the fastest route to getting it.

Yeah, I mean, Benny, you and I don't necessarily agree about this, but I—I—I think we could probably all agree about Trump trying to get peace is a good thing. I like to see an American president who pursues peace, not war. I also think he's being pragmatic about how he deals with the people in his own side, particularly the MAGA support that he has who are very anti-this continued support for Ukraine—that if there's a business arrangement to be done that involves the minerals, which looks like you're getting a quid pro quo, that is an easier sell to probably his base, which I—I—I can get that. And in return, Ukraine's going to want America to be part of a security guarantee to make sure if they do this deal on the current geographic lines, Putin won't come and attack them again. Um, I mean, how do you feel about the way I've characterized that?

Well, let me begin by speaking for my entire panel here by saying that was wonderful. Maybe there is free speech left in the UK, because what we just watched would be tantamount to two drunken uncles going to blows on Thanksgiving here in the States. Now, you don't have Thanksgiving in the UK, so maybe you don't understand the reference. Christmas. We do it at Christmas. Those were drunk—those were drunken uncles. Okay, box of wine, right? Uh, too much whiskey on Thanksgiving and—uh—too much turkey and a lot of history—a lot of history between us, which has been simmering for years. Yeah, yeah. And I—dude, I—I—I respect it. That guy clearly hates you. I hate your guts. Uh, okay, so let's establish what—and the truth is, George and I will probably find each other and go for a pint, because we're like that in Britain. We have a big old punch-up, then we go and have a beer to settle—settle our problems. I respect it. I think Sam and I agreed like once or twice even on this panel, so here you go. Here's cheers to you, Piers. So here—so let's—so let's talk about things that we should hate, all right? That guy hates your guts. Uh, here's things we should hate: people who cancel elections, right? People who lock up journalists, people who kill journalists, people who uh forcibly conscript their own population. You're talking about Putin. And people who—and people who—is that Vladimir Putin you're talking—who shut down churches, right? Is that Vladimir Putin you're talking about? Appear, see, this is the difference between me and the homie you just had on here. I think Putin's a scumbag dictator. Not here to argue for Putin, but I ain't here to argue for Zelensky either. One wrong doesn't make a right; one right doesn't make—just because one guy's a scumbag doesn't mean you have a right to also behave exactly like a dictator, which is what Zelensky's done. Cancel—what happened to the elections, Piers? Why did Zelensky cancel the election? Benny—Benny—Benny—hang on—out—out—ask question—you ask me a question—you ask me a question—hang on—dictator—you—you ask me a question—let me—let me reply. Why did he cancel the election? Well, it could be something to do with the fact that Ukraine is under martial law, which specifically, under their constitution, prevents him from having an election. Why are they under martial law? Because they're actually at war. Secondly, six million Ukrainians left the country as refugees. How are they going to vote in a free and fair election? You then have all the people who are serving in the military on the front line. How are they going to vote? You have 20% of the country under current illegal occupation by the Russians. How are they going to vote in a fair and free election? There's three and a half million of them there in that 20% region. So when you add it all together, how on Earth are you going to have a free and fair election in Ukraine right now? And why would you possibly use that? I'll give an analogy. In 1935, there was a UK general election. Do you know when the last—the next one was after that? 1945, right? Towards the end of the war, when we'd already had VE Day and there were just the Japan element to be dealt with. And the reason we didn't have one throughout World War II was because Winston Churchill knew it couldn't be a free and fair election which would represent the wishes of the people because most of them couldn't vote. And so there's a precedent for that. America, I think, outside of the Civil War and one or two other occasions, America's never had a situation where there's been actual warfare on American soil to prohibit an American election taking place. So why would you expect Ukraine to have an election? America had election—City—America had elections in World War II, but wasn't having a war on its soil in World War II. In New York City, we delayed our mayoral elections after 9/11. Okay, about a national election. I'm saying that these are all of—that America is the funder of this war and, dare I say, the reason the war started in the first place, with the fake Maidan revolution coup that was totally sponsored by America, Victoria Nuland, and John McCain cheering—having champagne toasts as they oversaw it. There—somebody please explain that—Victoria Nuland on tape picking the new Ukrainian cabinet. So, uh, yeah, let's just say that this country is pretty important when it comes to this war, and that Ukraine is effectively a vassal state of the American State Department. I don't like that; I don't want that to be the case. But given the fact that we're funding the war and we're probably the reason why it started in the first place, in part, you would assume that American democracy would be something that we'd be fighting for, because, you know, there's Ukrainian flags all over American neighborhoods—at least in dark blue areas—where the smooth brains live. And when these people put up a Ukrainian flag, they assume that they're getting American democracy. That's what they assume. I'm getting American democracy. And America doesn't just cancel elections because of emergencies. That doesn't happen in this nation. Certainly don't pres—the New York—hang—just heard—hang on—Benny—just heard from Sam, the New York mayoral election was delayed because of the pandemic. So there's an example. You do 9/11—after 9/11. I'm sorry.

Final thing I'll say on this, and it's—it's—it's a very important point, is that we've been lied to, right? You get lied to that war is about one side being all the devils and one side being the angels. I agree with that. And the truth about war, Piers, most of the time, both sides are devils. I agree. No, I think the best you can ask for is an ugly peace instead of a hot, bloody war. And yes, I agree with you, my brother from another mother across the pond. I agree with you, Piers, that the killing should end and the dying should end. Okay, Jillian, I say Zelensky is a dictator. He's not—Putin's a dictator, but—Jillian, final word to you? Maybe they're both dictators. Okay, if—if I put on my tin hat and wrap myself in tin foil, being as sober and judicial as possible, I follow the money here. So yes, I agree with you, Putin is a really bad guy, but it obviously takes two or more than two. And if you follow the money, when you hear out of Zelensky's own mouth, it's like, "Oh, I didn't take money. I got the money in the form of weapons." Well, who got rich off the weapons? Defense contractors. Okay, then what assets did Ukraine have? Well, they had the breadbasket, which was farming land, second only to Iowa across the globe. It was one of their top resources. And then, in 2021, there was land market reform from financial pressures due to global financial institutions forcing them to open up that land to—guess who?—Cargill, ADM, so on and so forth. So they were able to capture that resource. And then what did they have left? They had minerals left. So now Putin gets to keep—I think he has two territories where he'll probably hold on to those minerals. And now we're—at Sam saying there's no value—it certainly doesn't seem like the case. I—I haven't heard that, but I'm not an expert in this. And now we're grabbing some of those minerals. And then guess who gets to rebuild all of it? BlackRock and JPMorgan Chase. So just—I do not think it's like—it's Zelensky—it's Putin. I think it's far bigger than that. And please feel free to blow holes in—in my conspiracy theory, but that's just how it looks to—you know what I've learned over the years, Jillian, is that a lot of conspiracy theories end up turning out to be true. So I'm gonna—I'm going to leave it there. Uh, listen, great debate, you guys. Uh, we had the full—I think the full essence of a proper, free, democratic society debate today, which is a good thing. So thank you all very much, including your drunken uncle. Thank you—including my drunken uncle. And we didn't get round, sadly, to talking about Gene Hackman, who—who died in very sad circumstances today with his wife and his dog. And there's some pretty disturbing uh new reports coming out about what may have happened. We're not entirely sure, but Gene Hackman—I mean, just to say at the end of this show—one of the all-time great actors. Thing I always thought about Gene Hackman, I can't remember ever seeing him in a bad movie, right? Every movie he was in, he just came alive, did a brilliant job, and he made—out of the 80-odd movies he made, I can't think of a single turkey. How many movies—how many actors could say that about their career? So one of the all-time great actors on a very sad day that he died and appears to be in such sad circumstances. Anyway, that's my view on Gene Hackman. Thank you all very much. I appreciate it. Thank you.

Piers: Alina Habba's ferocious courtroom defense of President Trump in the E. Jean Carroll defamation case made her a MAGA superstar. She's since become one of the president's most dependable public advocates and trusted advisors. Habba is now the presidential counselor, a role previously occupied by the formidable Kellyanne Conway, and she joins me now on *Uncensored* from Washington, D.C.

Well, Alina, great to see you.

Good to see you, Piers. Thanks for having me.

I can't think of a more, like, electrifying start to a presidency in my lifetime. It's been endless, relentless, thrilling in some ways, slightly scary in others. The whole world is agog with what is happening in your White House at the moment. How do you categorize it?

I think exactly how you did. Um, the energy here is insane. I—I just met with social media influencers that have been invited uh here. I've been meeting with every Cabinet member. We are always open door. The Oval is bumping—everybody every day just coming in, talking to him. And he has been nonstop. I think that's uh pretty evident from all the executive orders that have come out, but you know, we work in between that as well, and it's been absolutely invigorating and just energizing. And if you look at—at what the American people are saying, they're loving it.

Tell me five things you've done this week.

Oh, I would love to. Where shall I start? Well, first of all, I do endless TV shows. Um, I meet with the president daily. I have met with Cabinet members—some team—if not three or four a day. We have coordinated meetings. I'm—um—focusing my portfolio now and really honed in on what I want to be doing—um—outside of my work for the president, but for the American people in my time here. So I've started doing that, but I can't discuss—some of it is—is top secret. But my list is so long, I said I don't even think that I could do five. It would have to be five pages, but uh, that's the way it should be. If you go to work, if you get paid by the American people or anybody frankly, you should work and do your job.

Yeah, I mean, I—I've got no problem with Elon Musk sending that—I know he'd done that before at some of his other companies. It seems to me a very smart way of making people focus on what they actually do, because if the answer is either you don't reply or you're dead—which is why you're not replying—or you can't come up with things you've actually done, then you're probably not in the right job or—or you shouldn't have a job, right? And that's the truth of it, right? So the—the—the—the reason this started is because we were realizing there were people that were not coming to work. That's how it started, right? You show up to work. That has been a generation—gener—a kind of generational issue, I think, um, and big companies have now started cracking down and following our lead on this. I think post-COVID, we just don't have the time anymore to see laziness. And productivity is up when you're cooperating and coordinating with your peers. So then you layer that with the fact that you're working for the government—these are taxpayer dollars—and then we have people that we think are holding two jobs. Okay, that progressed to—"Are you even here? Do you even have a job? Is this real? Where is this money going?" As we looked into government waste, we realized that a lot of uh these NOS, etc., have been just masking money and funneling it to the wrong places or—uh—wrong pockets, and we want to make sure that's not happening.

I mean, was it a confusing message though to the electorate when immediately, I think at least three departments announced that their employees didn't need to respond? I mean, I read that and thought, "Well, hang on, is there a concerted, united front here or not?"

Yes, uh, there is absolutely a concerted united front. I think the issue was—and Elon addressed this yesterday in the Cabinet meeting—we have departments that have top secret—um—myself included—we're working on top secret things—things that are not open to the public, things that you would not report to an outside employer. You would not emplo—you know, report to—uh—somebody other than the person you directly report to. I directly report to President Trump. I'm part of the executive branch—um—and President Trump knows every single day what I do. Um, so I think that the directive was not so much as a slight to Elon—which, of course, you know, mainstream media would like to make it look like there's a divide—but more of—"We're going to internalize this and do it the way that this department works or the way that it works for us." But if you look at what people are doing in each department, we're all cutting government waste; we're all making sure employees are held accountable, and we are firing. Unfortunately, the reality is we have to fire people that are not America First agenda and are not working hard.

What is the best and worst thing about working for President Trump?

The best thing about working for President Trump is that you are working for President Trump. I mean, he is something else. History will be so kind to this man. I think that this has been one of the most epic uh months in American history. I really think we are—imagine what we're going to do in four years. I mean, what an honor to work for him. He has been a mentor for me personally. He has—um—has really uh taught me so much. And one of the worst things about working for President Trump is that uh you have to try and keep up with him because he does not stop. So sleep deprivation happens and all of those things when you're working as hard as he is. But—um—it's an honor. I don't complain about it for one minute. I mean, it's a blessing, really. It is. I always know if I want to talk to him, I just call him at like 7 in the morning, and he'll answer. I mean, there aren't many world leaders who can do that.

To—yeah, I mean, he's got an extraordinary work ethic—um—and—and an extraordinary drive. I mean, he doesn't need to be, as he often says, and it's a really good point—he doesn't need to do this, right? I mean, he could just bask in the fun of being a billionaire. I think that's actually a lot of people here. If you look at it, some of these Cabinet members, the people that are around—in Elon Musk—many of them are billionaires, independently wealthy, have been successful businessmen in their own right, and they have given that up for the American people. Um, in private practice, I had my own firm, gave it up to come here and serve the country and serve the president. And—um—those are kind of, in my opinion, exactly what we needed, because it's a fresh outlook on how to handle policy, how to handle our economics and our problems, because a lot of us are business owners, we've run companies, we hold people accountable, we fire people, we know how to—to—uh—budget, we know how to look at numbers and make sense of them. And—and I think that's a blessing, but it's also a really common theme in this Administration. A lot of these people gave up and sacrificed a lot to be here.

There are a couple of UK-related stories that are happening right now. One is the uh visit of our Prime Minister, Rishi Sunak, and I'll come to that in a moment. But the—the other story that broke this morning is that the Tate brothers, Andrew Tate and Tristan Tate, have left Romania for Florida after travel restrictions were lifted. And it is believed that this has come as a direct result of pressure or—or just guidance—uh—or request for help from the Trump Administration for the Romanians to allow this to happen. What can you say about that?

I am not involved in that. Um, I can say that I—I read it just like you did. I saw that they lifted the restrictions on travel. Um, these are not individuals that can exactly hide. Um, so I understand that there's also some restrictions on them, even though they have lifted the ban on their travel. They still need to check in; they still need to report, as anybody does under an investigation. But what I can say is, look, this is an investigation. I'm not a party to the investigation. I don't condone, if it comes out to be true, anything other than being held accountable. But I also know that there is targeting that exists in these worlds, and—and I've been right there with President Trump while he was the victim of that. Um, but I'll let those courts sort that out themselves. I—I—I think that you have to remember something, and I know that they're a hot topic that creates a lot of uh quick reaction, but as an attorney, I support uh transparency, I support accountability, and a Justice Department that's doing the job the right way. I do not support targeting and uh political attacks. I don't—I don't support that. I never will. I'm an American, and I think that's a lot of what we have to correct right now in our own justice system. I want to play two clips: one is of you on Benny Johnson's show talking about Andrew Tate, and then Ben Shapiro's reaction to it.

Hello, Alina. Hi, nice to meet you. I'm a big fan.

Well, nice to meet you. I'm a fan. You're the one saving Trump. You're doing more important work than me.

America—America—not just Trump. And I agree with everything you just said, and I think that your anger—uh—is the same that President Trump has for our country. And the time is now for us to stop being wimps. I think—say—there is not actually true about Andrew Tate. He is not of the same ilk as President Trump. Find me the person, and I'll find you the crime that is true of President Trump that is not particularly true of Andrew Tate. I think that the way that some people are defending Andrew Tate today is a conflation of a couple of different ideas. So I think there is a big difference between having people on—have whoever you want on—that's totally fine—free speech and all the rest—that's totally fine—and cheering on bad people who don't actually care about your principles. And Andrew Tate is the latter.

What's your response to what Ben Shapiro said there?

You know, I'm so glad you asked me about this. All the Twitter trolls and the keyboard warriors—here—here's the situation, Piers. You can say that somebody has issues. People have issues. It's—it's—uh—I don't know. I'm not the lawyer, and I wasn't speaking to that. What I appreciate is people that fight—a fight. I appreciate all walks of life. I do not condone trafficking, rape, or some of the comments that Andrew Tate has made. But at the same time, you can say that you are a—listen, he is a social media presence. There are a lot of people that—um—watch them. There are a lot of comments that aren't controversial. So to go to Ben Shapiro's comment, I don't think it's conflating. I think you can parse things out. If you look at the claims—uh—some of them that they've made against President Trump, which were completely nonsense. And I don't know about the Tate brothers' cases. That's not my concern. That does not mean they're true; that also does not mean they're not true. You don't know. But in my case, I have sat through this where I know enough to know you do not pass judgment on somebody until they have had a fair trial. You do not do

The UK and get them out of Florida; that's something they're going to have to discuss with President Trump, but I have no part in it, and frankly, I don't think that we have a piece of this puzzle. Okay, that's clear.

Um, talking of another puzzle, the Jeffrey Epstein files we're told are to be imminently unleashed. Already, we saw Attorney General Pam Bondi say that the scale of what happened is far worse than anyone realized—well over 200, maybe 250 victims. We're going to get information either later today or tomorrow from these files. What can you tell me about that?

I believe it will be today. I was just with—I saw Pam and Cash—in the White House just before coming on your show. And um, I can tell you that I haven't been privy to it yet, but I know it is coming out. They will be taking portions of it; we have to be patient. I said this last night at a dinner with some media, and I said I think America needs to remember one thing: we are going to be—promises made, promises kept. But when you're dealing with victims, and by the way, this is a perfect example of a case that was vetted, that went through trial, that had testimony and was prosecuted the right way, and I don't preemptively attack; that's just not the way I operate. But in this case, in Epstein's case, it is incredibly disturbing. We have flight logs, we have information, names, that will come out. Is it going to be shocking? I don't see how it's not shocking that there were so many individuals that were hidden, kept secret, and not been held accountable.

Let's talk about the reverse. I believe in accountability. So you have to now go through your process. Now I won't say they're guilty until they go through their time in court, but again, now it's time for accountability. We have seen, for so many years, Pierce, in this country, many investigations, subpoenas, testimonies in Congress, etc., etc., but there's a general frustration with accountability. We take it halfway; we don't take it home. And I really believe that now with Cash and Pam, there will be accountability. And we know that only one person so far has actually gone to prison over that whole scandal: Ghislaine Maxwell, the former lover of Jeffrey Epstein. No man so far has actually been put in prison as a result of what happened.

Do you think by releasing information from these files we are likely to see criminal actions being taken? Absolutely. Really, I think it would be negligent for us not to. You have to hold individuals who are indeed rapists accountable; we have to have them tried, in my opinion, and I do believe in that. You know, nobody should be just dismissed; you have to have your time in court, and your case will be heard. But to hide lists, to protect political friends, all of that, we don't have time for that.

There will be some people who say, "Okay, I totally agree with you, so why have the Tates been allowed to fly to the United States and avoid justice in Romania?" Okay, so again, we are not the Justice Department in charge of the Tates.

Saki Starmer, the British Prime Minister, will be with Donald Trump today; he's announced this week a dramatic increase in our defense spending as a direct result, I would say, of the pressure brought to bear by Donald Trump against all European countries to step up and pay more for defense. People are seeing this as a dramatic realignment of American relations—bringing Russia in from the cold, whacking the Europeans, etc. How would you categorize it?

I think the President is a negotiator; he's going to talk to every single country, and this is really a blanket rule. He addressed this yesterday about China if you listen to the cabinet meeting. President Trump is about a couple of things: economy, peace through strength, and America First. And we have had a complete and utter disaster under the last administration where we have encouraged, funded ad nauseum, funding to countries like Ukraine while our country is suffering. This is not a sympathizer issue; this is not one country over another; this is a blanket policy of President Trump. He is going to exhibit, and has exhibited, peace through strength. These wars wouldn't have happened, and he is negotiating actively with all countries and will continue to do so.

Do you think that Russia started the war? I'm not gonna—I don't know the facts enough to speak to that, and frankly, the facts I do know are not something I would discuss on TV. Alina, you are a brilliant lawyer; you obviously, I would imagine, have put your cursory brilliant eye over this war and who started it.

I think President Biden's negligence may have been part of the problem on why this started. I think Russia invaded a sovereign democratic European country and started brutally murdering people. I think that there were a lot of murders on both sides, and, like I said, I wouldn't speak to details that I don't know of. I do not have Intel; I have not been briefed on the Ukraine and Russia War. I see what you see, which is on TV, and I can see that both countries are at fault.

Do you think Zelensky is a dictator? I think if you look historically at the fact that he hasn't been elected and he's held on to power, I don't think that's exactly a democratic party right there. That's not the way—you're a lawyer again, look, and I say this respectfully, but you're a lawyer—as you know, he was democratically elected in 2019. When it came up for the time there should be another election, they were under martial law in Ukraine, which specifically prohibits him holding another election. Also, six million Ukrainians have left the country as refugees; you have 20% of the country under Russian control. So the idea you could have a free democratic election in Ukraine right now, for all those reasons, is obviously unthinkable, right?

Well, Pierce, let me ask you the question: who do you think started the war?

Oh, Vladimir Putin started the war, and he is a dictator.

Good. I am sitting in the White House; I speak for the President, and unlike you, I'm not a TV person that can just throw around things without being properly briefed on what actually happened. So as I sit here now in the Executive Office of the President, I'm going to decline any comment other than this war would never have happened if President Trump was sitting in that Oval Office.

It never—that might well be—will fix it—that might well be true. I just don't think it's overly controversial to suggest that Vladimir Putin is a dictator or that he started the war, and I think that that's just something we should all just agree on as we move forward.

Well, I don't—I'm not sitting here singing his praises, but I also know that we are in the middle of negotiating, and we are trying to end a war, which is more important, frankly, than doing things like a TV hit where you just start accusing people and getting everybody into corners. That's not what I'm going to do. I am here to help President Trump finish this, wrap it up, and by me going on a show, frankly, the juice is not worth the squeeze for me to start hitting people hard when we are trying to bring everybody to the table. So all due respect to your position, I sit in the executive office of the president; President Trump will handle that the way he wants to, and I will not be inflating any wars here.

Final question: you're a mother of three kids; it cannot be easy for you to hold down one of the most pressurized, busy jobs I imagine in America and be a mom. How do you juggle it all?

I have the best family in the world; I have the greatest husband in the world; my children are a blessing. And amazingly enough, I go home and I see my children every weekend, and I ask them a very simple question: "Do you want Mommy to come home? Because I will." And if they need me to come home, I am there for them. And if they want me to quit, I will, because they are number one. But I will tell you this: every time I ask that question, my children say the same thing: "Mommy, you have to save America."

What a brilliant answer, Alina Habba. Lovely to talk to you.

Thank you very much.

Nice to talk to you.

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