Transcription
All right, guys, welcome to this episode of Closers or Losers. It's me and the man, the myth, the legend, the one Lego bandit, Jeremy Minor. [Applause] Mr. Old Man Yoda himself. You're like the Obi-Wan Kenobi; I'm Yoda, and our Vice President of Sales is like Luke Skywalker. That's how I look at how old I am compared to you guys. It's just like I'm the old guy around here.
Marco actually called me Uncle Jay the other day. I'm like, "Uncle? Uncle James? I've made the uncle list since I hit my 40s. Now what the hell's going on?" Well, he's only 26. He's only 26. He's a baby. Yeah, good lord, he's a baby. Well, there you go. Yeah, he's moving up the company pretty quick.
All right, so hey, we're happy to have everybody on here today. Listen in. So, Closers or Losers, what are we doing here today? If this is your first time with us, I'm the chairman of Seventh Level. This is our CEO, Matt Ryder, and we're a company that helps sales professionals like you, coaches like you, executives, business owners, and we help you transform the way you sell by learning specific skilled techniques that work with human behavior rather than work against it.
We're going to go over that today on closing. You'll learn how to ask commitment questions instead of closes. These are called Neural Emotional Persuasion Questions (NEPQ). We teach you the right tonality to put your prospects at ease, eliminate sales pressure, and get them to persuade themselves. So, I'm excited about the topic we're going to talk about today.
Today, we're going to talk about what does closing actually mean. Like, what does closing actually mean? You know, when I first got into selling, when I was a 21-year-old little punk, you know, even younger than our Jedi Mark over there, VP, I read these books. The company gave me all these books, and I remember the books. No offense to anybody; I mean, these guys have books, they've sold a lot of books, and that's great. But I got books like The Sales Bible with Jeffrey Gitomer. I got books by a good friend of mine, Brian Tracy, actually one of my first mentors. I liked a lot of his stuff, Psychology of Selling.
I got books by, oh, what are those guys? Like Grant Cardone and Jordan Belfort. I love all these bookshelves here, just all these books. What was his name? The guy that sold real estate? Tom Hopkins. You know, I got all these books, like hardcore, like ABCs of closing, always be closing. I would get a book that would say 1001 ways to close a sale, and I'm just like, how am I going to remember the 1001 ways for every situation? Like, what? It boggled my mind.
I remember going out and using those techniques. My first sales job I got was selling door-to-door. I was selling alarms, and I would go out there and knock on the doors and do my little spiel, and then be like, "So, do you want us to have it installed on Monday or Tuesday at one, or Wednesday at two?" They're like, "We're not interested," slam. I'm just like, binary close. Yeah, I'm like, wait a minute, but the Sales Bible book said that I need to ask the option close. Like, why is it not working 97.6 percent of the time? And it didn't.
It took me actually a couple of months of getting like a million gazillion doors slammed in my face to realize that, man, when you use a lot of these techniques—and I didn't know they were old school at that time. I thought they were new school—that they just trigger resistance and cause a lot of objections. What are your thoughts on that?
I think it's an interesting one because I was taught very similar to you. I was taught the binary close system, you know, like it's basically option close. It's like, "Okay, so would it be better for you to pay in a payment plan or a whole upfront payment plan?" Okay, and would you like to do two pay or three pay? Okay, would you like to start on Monday or Tuesday? Tuesday? Okay, so let's get started.
We're taught that you can trick people into buying. If they say yes, nine times out of ten, it'll be a yes. It's like, that is so outrageously not true. How stupid do you think people are? But I think that one of the really interesting things is when you get asked this question, "Lawton, what would you say in this situation?" What was in that situation? Which is like, yeah, okay, we can go over that.
But what I'd love to hear is, because NEPQ is stacked, right? So you've got connection, situation, problem, solution, awareness, consequence questions. What I'd love to hear you break down today because this is what will actually help people close.
Yeah, why did you stack it that way?
Well, okay, so my background is behavioral science and human psychology. So remember, let's go back to my story. You know, the little 21-year-old kid in college who's trying to survive door-to-door sales. His manager gives him all the books, like Jeffrey Gitomer and Tom Hopkins and Joe Girard, the greatest salesman in the world book that sold a gazillion cars in 1963. Zig Ziglar said you got to be really enthusiastic, and they're going to be excited too.
Well, what's the problem with that? I mean, I love those guys, but they grew up selling in the 60s, 70s, and 80s, you know, maybe early 90s, and the consumer was completely different. We didn't have social media; we didn't have the power of the internet. They couldn't go look up all these reviews online. They didn't know anything about you unless you did ads on like newspaper ads or TV or radio ads. That's how they would know about your products or services.
But now, with the power of the internet, especially social media, we just live in a completely different age. I mean, they know everything about you by typing in your name on Google, and in 10 seconds, they know your price points and who your competitors are and how long you've been in business and if people say bad things about your company or whatever. They know everything about you.
Well, I mean, who was that guy that sold the Eiffel Tower three times? You know, so what? They sold the Eiffel Tower three times. Was it Ponzi? Was that what he did? I can't remember. There was a guy who sold the Eiffel Tower three times, and then he got chased out of France, and then he moved to New York and sold the Statue of Liberty twice.
All right, so, you know, I think people—not that people were stupid back then—but people were, you know, we were in our infancy of complex communication. Human beings are not very old, you know what I mean? So, like, I'm sure in 2000 years, if God willing, human beings are still on the planet or somewhere, yeah, looking back and being like, "Look at these morons," you know, whatever, the way morons communicated.
No, but my background is behavioral science and human psychology. That was my major in college. So I was reading all these old school sales books. I didn't know they were old school at the time. I thought they were the latest, greatest things. This was like in 2000, 2001, 20 years ago.
Okay, and then my professors in college, I was learning about Socrates, and I was learning about all these great communicators throughout history. Even like Jesus Christ himself was like the greatest communicator, and I was learning, and I would analyze what they would say and what they would ask. I was like, "Wow, they attracted thousands of people to follow them. They attracted all this following, and just people did—I mean, they would lose their lives for them. Like, how did they do it?"
Right? And so my professors break that down, and I'm like, "What my professors are teaching me about how human behavior works is completely different than what all these gurus are teaching." I mean, it was like it couldn't be more different. And I'm like, "How do I take what I'm learning about humans, like human behavior and neuroscience, like how the brain makes decisions? How can I incorporate that into selling?"
I went, like, literally looking around the globe. I mean, early internet days, 2001, 2002. You know, go to the—I don't even know if Google was around. I don't know who it was, but anyways, AOL, maybe? I don't even remember. But I would remember, like, searching for these sales courses and seminars, and I was like a junkie, man. Like, I would read like eight books a freaking month. I'd read a book like every two days. Every weekend, I was like a seminar junkie. I was one of those guys that would be at a weekend retreat like every Friday, Saturday, and Sunday trying to learn this stuff.
I found that everything really out there that I saw for the first couple of years was really just re-garbage, repackaged stuff from everybody else's. It was just a different spin of the option close, and they would call it the binary close, or it was the demonstration close, or the puppy dog close, or the Benjamin Franklin close. I found that everything was really similar.
There's a close called the Benjamin Franklin close that only works for one Lakers, though. We gotta get—I know, gotta get into that one day. So anyways, what I did is I'm like, "How do I structure?" So I started asking. So I started learning human behavior, and I came up with these questions, okay?
I started asking them, and I'm like, "Wow, these really work." Like, people are opening up to me, but then I would ask something wrong, and they would close down. I'm like, "I'd have to eliminate that question and replace it with something else."
So I started coming up with, like, okay, when I first start talking to somebody, I'm connecting with them. So I'm going to call those connecting questions. That's how I came up with connecting questions. And then I'm like, "Okay, so what are you—" I'll just stop you because, so what do you—what are you hoping to gain out of that series of questions?
Well, connecting questions, we're taking the focus off of you, the salesperson, and we're putting it on them. Because what most salespeople do when they first start talking is all the focus is on them. They're like, "Hi, John, I'm with XYZ Company, and the reason why I called you today is blah, blah, blah, blah." And it's like the focus is on you trying to prove that you have something awesome.
So I'm like, "How do we put the focus on them and get them curious enough where they want to engage?" So that's where I came up with the engagement process. That's where I came up with that. I'm like, "How do I get them to engage?" I remember reading a book on Socrates, and the professor was like, "Socrates was the best at getting people to engage." And I'm like, "Oh, engaged."
So it kind of warped into the engagement stage. That's where I came up with the engagement stage. This is all crazy. This took, you know, several years to develop. So connecting questions put the focus on them, take it off you.
And then I'm like, "Okay, now I need to find out what they currently have in place to solve the problem." And so I first came up with something called, like, background. Like, I need to get their background, and I'm like, "No." And I noticed another sales trainer had that. I'm like, "I need to rename that," and I called it situation questions.
So I want to find out what their present situation is, okay? A lot of salespeople talk about their present state or their current state and their future states. I'm like, "Okay, what's their present situation?" And their present situation is we're finding out what their situation is like now. Not really much emotion out of there, but we're finding the facts.
Okay, so like, let's say if we're talking to a company about sales training, we're trying to find out, "Walk me through one of the first questions we ask a company, Matt. You know this. I mean, you do some of these calls with their VPs and stuff like that." But one of the coolest questions we ask is, "Okay, so walk me through if I'm a salesperson for you. Walk me through what my training would look like when I started with your company."
And then they watch. That's actually a very awkward question for a lot of companies because they're like, "Uh, well, we teach them how the product works." Like, it's all about product knowledge. It's all about product knowledge. But that gets them to think like, "Oh, we don't really have sales training like we thought," right?
So we're asking them what their present situation is, how long they've been doing it that way, and what caused them to do it that way. And it doesn't matter if you sell insurance. You know, it's training to some salespeople today that sell insurance, and we're talking about we're finding out what type of financial protection do they have in place now in case something happens to their husband or wife if they pass away or find out what their situation is, okay?
So it doesn't matter the industry. Then I'm like, "Okay, now it's a very important point, though, because it really doesn't matter the industry."
Yeah, like people need to—and no one ever out there yelling at their cars that they're listening to it does matter. No, no, it really doesn't. Like, I've had these conversations in large-scale B2B with German textiles factories, and I've had these same conversations in a coaching environment where I'm selling one-on-one sales training.
I've sold business coaching to trades, right, to blue-collar workers. I've sold digital marketing services to pretty much every type of business, but also fitness. I've also used this to sell fitness programs, right? This is sales, right? So like, it really does work. Obviously, there is some nuance to each industry, but the framework stays relatively similar.
That's why we get the duplication with any industry. That's why people are amazed, like, "How do you get that type of increase in sales for an insurance company that sells insurance?" But then you go over, and these car dealerships, you've increased their sales by 600 percent this year. And then you go from car sales, and you're teaching them how to sell fitness programs.
So, and then we can take them from the fitness industry, and we train realtors how to sell commercial or residential properties, and they blow up. We've got real estate agents that make five hundred thousand a year, a million dollars a year, right? We even train—not GCI and not GCI take-home revenue.
Yeah, right. So we train his salespeople how to sell his influencer products and everything, right? The guy that sells a billion dollars worth of real estate in New York, he's done, I think, 500 million this year.
Yeah, only 500 million by March. Exactly. So, yeah, those sales skills don't matter. No big deal. And then we teach how do we—and then we train a company how to sell their artwork on a floor. But it's the same thing. We use the same framework. We use connecting questions and situation questions and problem awareness questions.
So the way I got that order, Matt, was really by trial and error. And because, you know, when I first started, I had consequence questions where solution awareness questions were. Well, that wouldn't work. I would ask a consequence question, and then a solution awareness question. I'm like, "That doesn't work as powerfully."
I'm going to put the consequence questions after solution awareness. So it took me just trial and error of figuring out where they needed to go to get the best result for what I was selling at that point.
And then I remember when I first got into sales training in 2017, I'm like, "Okay, because about a year and a half, two years before, people were coming to me from many different industries like, 'Dude, I heard you make like two or three million dollars a year as a salesman. Train me how to sell this.'" And I'm like, "I don't know. I've never sold that."
And so it was challenging to me because I'm like, "How do I sell that?" I would write out scripts, you know, and that would just train people. And I was like, "Wow, this really works for any industry." Like, what I'm doing in my industry, I can go and train somebody in a completely different industry the sales structure, and they're getting the same results that I'm getting.
And that gave me the idea of like, "Maybe I can train any industry how to do this." And that's how Seventh Level was born, as you know.
Exactly. When I came into Seventh Level, I came in, I saw you on a presentation on sales business. That's what really got me kind of dialed in. And then from there, I bought the NEPQ course.
Yeah, and then I reached out to you for coaching because I understood, and I was like, "This is really the way to do it." But for me, like, the way that I learned personally, I was an ADHD kid. I'm very much like a monkey-see-monkey-do type person.
So like in the military, you learn, you get attached to someone who's done the job before you, and then they teach you how to do the job, and then you teach someone. That's just how it works, right? That's how everyone taught each other. It's a very small community.
So I was like, "Well, I could read this all day long." I can—I watched all the videos. I went through it like five, six times. I was like, "No, I just want to get—I'll just pay money to have somebody speed this up for me."
And then when you took me through the script, I was like, "Oh, this is why it's all happening." Yeah, and for me, like, the real click moment was like—because I want people to know, like, having a script is great, right? And I think it will benefit everybody having a script.
But understanding the concepts of why things are building on each other in the way they're building, like when you're going through connection, situation, problems, like you're finding a serious problem. Like, what is it? What is an actual problem?
And that can be like having a big empty spot on your wall for artwork, and you know that could make you self-conscious when you have people come through the house because your artwork isn't up to scratch because you live in a, you know, snooty city or whatever, right?
Or it can be that your business isn't making enough money and your salespeople are poorly trained or whatever, right? It can be a lot of different things. So once we find that real problem, then we're going to go after, like, the solution.
The solution is not only going to be—it's not just—it's a tangible and an emotional driver, which is super key. But those tangible and emotional drivers don't mean anything unless you get the real problem.
So you've got to have the ability and the tonality and the structure and that different types of questions to be able to get the real problem, which is like—that's why in problem awareness, like we have, it's like 400 problem awareness questions, you know?
I mean, you can just go, "That doesn't seem right to me. Let me just keep probing. I'll clarify or probe or clarify." Once we get the real what, then we can get the real why, which is the emotion.
And from there, there's genuine consequence because if we future pace out somebody's life or business having solved the problem, gotten the tangible, which gives you the emotional, which people only act on emotion. That's the only reason you only eat because you're hungry, because you need to eat, right?
Because you're like, "I'm hungry, and it would make me sad to not eat," right? So like once you future pace that beautiful life out, then you take it away in a consequence question.
And once you have the real skill level to be able to identify when someone is genuinely contemplating the consequences of an action, then you go to commitment, get a commitment, then you go to presentation. You present, and you've carried that emotion through.
And it's just a—honestly, like when it was like that glass shattering, I was like, "Holy, I've lost out on a lot of money because I haven't figured this out." And when I saw it all online, I was like, "Yep, this makes total sense."
Well, it's crazy. I remember you came to me probably 15, 16 months ago. We're not talking about a decade ago or anything, and you were already doing well. You were already making like 20 grand a month, sometimes 25 grand a month. I mean, that's a lot of money for a salesperson.
But you're like, "Dude, I'm hitting my head against the wall because I'm like, I should be making twice as much, but so many people cancel. They don't show up for the appointments." Because you had been taught, like I had been taught early on in sales, to push, push, push.
And you were very clever and witty at trapping them into things where they couldn't push back, but that only goes so long. I mean, you're only going to get so many people that way. There's so many people that just don't go for that, right? That you could have made.
And I remember after our second session, you're like, "I get it." You're like, "Dude, I get it. I know now what you're talking about in the training videos." There's like a light bulb. I remember that moment you said that. You're like, "It was like a light bulb came out of my head."
And then even a couple weeks later, you were like already crushing. I'm like, "Dude, this guy's picking this up really quick." So it's like a light bulb went off in your eyes. I just remember you're like, "Dude, I get it. This makes sense now."
Yeah, I call that when you get plugged into the matrix.
Yeah, oh, I see. Like, I see what's going on. Yeah, you can tell. Like, you know, because we had one of our inner circle members, Cali, super new to sales, and like she's been grinding through for the last sort of four or five months.
She sent in a circle probably two months ago, and she's crushing every deal in sight right now. Like, she's making eight, nine sales a week at the moment, and these are big deals. These are like thirty-thousand-dollar deals.
So in the coaching space, it's about as big as they sort of get in sort of relative terms. She's going to make like 15 to 20 thousand a month for like this month, you know, going from like—
But going from three.
Yeah, like she's gone from three to twenty, like in an instant. And I was like, "Ah, congratulations, you plugged in." I was like, "I see it. I see the ones in zero."
I know she boxed me about a month ago, and she's like, "I get it. I finally get it." And I'm just like, "Dude, it took you two months, but hey, I'm glad you know the pill. I'm glad you took the pill now," or the red pill or whatever.
She's like plugged into the matrix now.
Yeah, so we've like—yeah, she's absolutely crushing it, which is great. And it's really interesting when you see people when they go, "Oh." Like, they don't—it's not like they've memorized the script, because that's fine, and that's, I think, a useful thing to do.
But you know you're going to have to go off script. You know, it's a conversation. Not every conversation is perfect.
Yeah, but it's when you understand the concepts, you're like, "I have to stack these things on top of each other in this particular way." And as long as that is done, then I leave myself in the absolute best position to be able to get the sale.
And that's even like when you don't get the sale, you're fine with it because you know that you did your process, which works a majority of the time.
Exactly. You don't really have like any—you didn't make the sale, so you're not like, "Oh my gosh, I shouldn't make the sale," because you knew you did exactly what you were supposed to do. You followed the sales process, and you know if you do that day in and day out, most of the time it's going to work for you.
There are going to be a few people or prospects you just—they can't get the funding together. They just—they don't see the problem that they have or whatever. But you do that day in and day out on all your calls and all of your appointments, you're going to get most of the people.
Whereas somebody selling the same thing you are might get a five or ten percent conversion rate, and you're getting a thirty or forty percent conversion rate following that process. You're making three times the amount of money, probably working less hours.
Yeah, one of our accounts that we provide the sales reps for at Seventh Level, it's a very high-quality Amazon account. We're closing at 32. The industry standard for Amazon and e-commerce is five.
And this guy, like, we had to have a chat with him yesterday because the delivery team is like, "What is happening? We're making four a day."
Right? So, yeah, four sales a day. They just like, "What is going on?" Because they're used to getting five a month, you know?
So it's now there's about 50 a month now.
Yeah, so it's really funny. But yeah, like, I think that was one of the big things for me. I think one of the best things about having a system is like, is the ability to kind of detach from the sale.
Because like, I like to think I'm genuinely detached from all the outcomes of sales. I obviously want to get the sale. Like, that's not what it is. It's not wanting to get the sale, but it's like if I don't, as long as I can sit back and go, "No, no, I did the process."
Like, I did it, and I was like, "Is that me and Marco having conversations?" He's like, "Yeah, I had this inner circle call. I didn't close him." We're like, "That's weird." He was like, "Yeah, I know we closed like nine out of ten of those."
Yeah, he's like, "That was weird, wasn't it?" Like, "Yeah." He's like, "Oh, well, that's fine. His or her loss. They're just going to sell less."
Yeah, exactly. So whenever we bring on people, like, that's one of the big things that we want to get across to them. It's like you will be so much happier as a salesperson if you can figure out how to detach.
And a lot of people talk about it, but I don't think anyone really explains what it means very well. And it's like detaching from the sale is not not caring if you make the sale, right?
But it's knowing that like all you can do is what you can do. And in reality, we really can't convince anyone to do anything. Anyone who's ever been in a relationship is fully aware, or had children, you can't convince people to do stuff.
All you can do is get them to convince themselves. And we're not Tony Robbins. We're not going to have three-hour interventions with people, nor should we try, right?
So like all we can do is like, "I have a process. I'm really confident in it. I work on it every single day. I try and do as best I can, and that works X percentage of the time. I'm happy with that."
No, exactly. Yeah, and I want to make sure everybody understands. I think you bring up a really good point. When we say detach yourselves from making the sale, that doesn't mean that we don't want you to make the sale. Good lord.
I mean, Matt, when we train him and stuff, Matt went from making like 25 grand a month to a hundred thousand dollars a month in commissions. Obviously, he was closing sales, right? He wasn't just like, "Hey, I hope you buy at the end," or "Call me back if you really want to buy." You don't do that to make a hundred thousand a month, right?
So what he's saying is you're detaching yourself externally. So you're detached because you're seeing if you can help. Now, you know most of the people we talk to, we can help because they book calls with us, right?
Or they respond to an ad, or we know they have problems. So we know 99 percent of the people we talk to, we can help in any industry that we're training, okay?
So we're detached. We always say detach from the expectations of making the sale, and instead, we're focused on whether or not there's a sale to be made in the first place.
Now, internally, are we trying to make the sale? Well, hell yeah, that's why we're on the phone with them, right? So we're going to do our best. That's our job. That's what you get paid to do.
You get paid to help your prospects find problems that didn't think they had, and you get paid to sell them your product or service to solve specific problems for them. If you can't sell them, they're not getting problem solved, and that's your fault. They're staying in status quo, okay?
So when we say detach yourself from making the sale, like the expectations that make it, so focus on whether or not there's a problem. That's what we mean. But it doesn't mean that you just don't show that externally where you're like, you know, commission breath.
I always call that commission breath. Like, you've got to get rid of the commission breath and keep that internally inside.
Yeah, but then also, it's just like—I mean, for me, I used to get pissed off when I didn't make a sale. Yeah, but I think I was pissed off because I felt like I had lost a battle.
Yeah, it's like I never got angry. When I was a kid, I used to wrestle. If I lost a wrestling match, I was livid, right? Because I felt like that was like a human being versus human being, caveman versus caveman. He would have beat me to death and taken my family, you know what I mean?
Like, it's one of those things, right? So I think—and the way that I sold was not dissimilar to that. It was pretty rough, I'm not going to lie. Listen, I have some of those calls recorded. I should send them to you. They're pretty funny.
Yeah, I mean, we're all taught in the beginning that selling is more adversarial. It's like human against human, trying to manipulate them to buy. But what we train you on with NEPQ is making selling collaborative.
Yeah, it's just far less stressful.
So much more profitable.
Yeah, it's a lot more profitable. But yeah, so it's like that's one thing is, you know, salespeople get so discouraged and frustrated when they don't make a sale.
And I really feel like the reason why that is is because like you don't have a process that you're really confident in. So you're kind of like flying by the seat of your pants. It ends up being—you end up seeing it as like a boxing match. You're going in a fight.
That's why people need—like, I don't understand why people need like pre-call routines. I see that all the time. I'm like, "But you're just having a conversation with another person."
Like, do you need to pump yourself up to go and order a coffee at Starbucks? Like, it's honestly like—is that person on the till like, "Oh, there's a sale coming in. I better get pumped up, do five minutes of meditation and 25 push-ups."
It's like there's no—I don't believe you need to be in a flow state to sell things. And I really—whenever people say it, I'm like, "Hey, guys, like if you think you need to be in some sort of flow state before a call, then you're going to find reasons to screw that call up because you weren't in flow state."
Yeah, well, you lack certainty when you don't have a working sales structure to follow, a sales process that works with human behavior. You lack certainty, and so you wing it, right?
You're taught out of sell like human against human. We're teaching you how to sell collaboratively. You working with the person to help them find and solve problems makes selling not stressful.
It makes selling really fun. You look at yourself as like, "Hey, I'm a problem finder and problem solver. I'm not a product pusher." Like, don't be the product pusher. Like, 97 percent of salespeople, probably more than that, are like, "It's really an exhausting, stressful job that doesn't pay that much."
You want to be the problem finder and problem solver that gets paid big bucks to solve problems.
What do you think the most, like, I guess in terms of industry, what do you think are the most archaic industries in terms of sales and the ones that are sort of more towards the new model?
I think the biggest industry that still sells so over to the old way is the car industry.
Yeah, I think that's definitely one of the industries that is still selling like it's 1965.
And it's not their fault. Like, we train the largest car dealership. Our company, Matt and I, train the largest car dealership in Canada. It's called 401 Auto. They're a huge company. I mean, they've got like 40 or 50 dealerships up in Canada.
And this last year, during the pandemic, we got them almost 100 percent increase in sales in Canada. And during the pandemic, most of Canada was closed down, shut down. Car dealerships, you could not go in a car dealership. You literally—car dealerships were locked for about six months of the year, seven months, or you couldn't go in one.
So we taught them how to get on the phones and start calling leads and actually selling cars. And people would come, and they would drive the car out of the dealership. They couldn't go into the damn store, and they got almost 100 percent increase during the pandemic.
This year, when everything opens up, I bet they're going to get a 300 percent increase. And now they have the skill. Well, now they're buying up all these other car dealerships that went under.
Yeah, this year they've already bought like 10 or 12 other dealerships. So they're going to buy like another 10 or 12. They're going to have like 70 or 80 dealerships up there. They're like McDonald's now. Like, they just own everything.
That's awesome.
And what do you think is sort of one of the industries that's more towards the forefront of the new model of selling?
I would say one of the industries that I think is getting more towards the forefront is the financial services industry just because of all the regulations.
So they're more consultative selling because you're speaking to more of a sophisticated buyer. They use a lot of, like, I think, SPIN selling techniques, which are good. I don't think they're great because still you're asking like logical-based questions like, "What's your biggest problem?" or "What keeps you awake at night with your investments?"
Right? And just like there's not enough emotion being pulled out from there for them to act, like they—you know, build urgency in there. But it's definitely better than like boiler room selling, for sure.
Absolutely. In the coaching consulting industry, it's a very—I think they're—because it's relatively new in terms of like the how and sort of like, I guess, in terms of industry, it's quite new.
But I think like selling information provides some difficulties, right? You know what I mean? In terms of compared to selling your product, right? Because there's no tangible.
Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, so you're selling information, and then from there, that person has to then apply that. So I think like a request—I think it requires a—it's a tricky one.
But that's why I like it a lot because I think it's very interesting, and you have to sort of really navigate a lot of weeds because a lot of self-doubt, self-belief stuff because like at the end of the day, all they're getting is information.
Yeah, but they have to apply the information in the mail.
Yeah, yeah. They're not driving it home off the dealership.
Exactly. So I was like, "Yeah, that seems like a very pure form of selling because you're just selling someone an idea."
Yeah, that's it. It's like, "Here we go. It's an idea, concept. You're going to learn a concept and hopefully apply it."
That's what I said. Selling sales training is a particularly interesting thing to sell, but it's super fun to sell because you can break all sorts of rules.
We can slap salespeople and companies around sometimes because we're like, they're talking about and complaining about their lack of results and the inconsistencies of their salespeople, and they're losing sales to low-cost competitors.
And we're just like, "Do you want to keep doing that?" I mean, you can keep doing that if you want to. It's almost like you slap them. They're like, "No, we don't want to."
Well, why? I mean, why not just keep doing what you've been doing?
Well, we can't do—we do. It's like we can slap them around a little bit more.
Yeah, yeah, as well. One of the lines I like to use, it's like, "Well, would I be representing—like, do you want a sales trainer to let someone get off the phone without purchasing? Is that what you want to learn?"
They're like, "No." And I'm like, "Okay, then you put me in a tough position, man. Like, I'm in a position where now I have to tell you, so are you open to learning from someone who gets the deals done?"
Yes. I'm like, "Okay, exactly." We get away so much with individual salespeople consulting and selling that way because it's like, "Well, do you want to learn how to—so when they say they don't have enough money, do you want to learn how to overcome that objection, or do you just not want me to overcome that for you where you don't buy and you just walk away and nothing ever changes for you?"
Yeah, that's a tough one to get out of.
You're like, "I really want to learn how to overcome it, but in order to learn, he has to overcome me."
Like, it's a tough one. It's like, exactly. And so then we help them overcome it with their own concern, and they're like, "Oh my gosh, do you want to learn how to do that with your prospects?"
Yeah, and then they're all ready to go. I mean, that's where we have like an 80 to 90 percent of people on our calls that enroll because they want—they see the results, right?
I mean, we've had over 2000 testimonials in the first two years. So they're in our Facebook groups. They see the results. I mean, we post three to five testimonials every day, plus all the other testimonials that individual members post themselves.
I mean, it's like so much social proof. It's like you almost want to throw up. You see so much of it every day. So it's like pretty obvious that salespeople get results by going through our training, and companies get through our results.
So I love getting on—I love when you guys get on with salespeople and like slap them around. I think it's awesome.
They need it.
It's fun. I think that they—you know, it's a fun conversation because they like the process, and they like—you know, you can kind of play around with it, but it's an enjoyable thing.
It's always fun. I like it. I've got a call next week with a guy that I've been chasing for four months.
So look at what happened. Is it a company, or is it just an individual salesman?
That's the guy. When I was the one doing the full-time sales for it, he just didn't have any liquidity at all. He was in a third-world country, and now he's back in a better place.
So, you know, because I saw with him. Well, because I saw with him collaboratively.
Yeah, I still gave myself the best chance to get in the sale, but then once you realize, like, you just have to pipeline to somebody, and you just pipeline them and have a regular touch base.
You know, "Hey, man, how are you doing? What's going on? We can do." But now he's coming back to you.
Exactly. So I can retrospectively change my close rate.
Beautiful. Now you have a 91.9 percent close rate instead of a 91.3 close rate.
That's what matters.
That's what matters.
All right, dude. Hey, great to have everybody on here. You know, go to our Facebook group if you want to learn these types of skills. We're just kind of keeping it out here a little bit, but go to our Facebook group, Sales Revolution.
Sales Revolution. There's a couple questions we ask on our intake form. Answer those questions, join the group. Right when you join, you're going to get a training that we have. It's a three—I don't know, it's at least an hour training on how to prevent objections from actually happening in your prospect's mind.
Can you imagine that? We're just paying that right over to you for free. We go live on our Facebook group about four to five times a week. Matt and I do, and other sales trainers train you these types of skills every day.
Love to have you in their Sales Revolution, and we'll see you on the inside.
Matt, any last words?
No, have a good day. Enjoy yourself. Go out there, make some sales, join the Facebook group, learn some skills. And make sure if you're watching this on YouTube, you like, subscribe, hit the notification bell, all that kind of good stuff. Help us out. Let us know you're listening.
All right, guys, have a good day. Thanks, everybody.
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