Transcription
General Mattis, welcome to Berkeley.
Thank you. Pleasure to be here.
Where were you born and raised?
I was born up in the Pacific Northwest and I was raised on the banks of the Columbia River in a little town up there that had a combination of agricultural pursuits and nuclear industries. So, it was a kind of a tale of two cities.
And and looking back, how do you think your parents shaped your thinking of the about the world?
They had enormous impact on me. They had both traveled around the world. My father been a merchant mariner. My mother had served overseas in South Africa with Army Intelligence in World War II. And they introduced us to a world full of great ideas and not a fearful place, but a place to go enjoy. And probably the most important thing was they never bought a television, but we had a great big library. And so, the ideas that were there, we were encouraged to explore. And and it shaped my view of learning.
And and is that when you became a lifetime learner and a reader of books in addition to being later a warrior?
It certainly had a big impact. I think I was pretty focused on things I enjoyed like geology, the American West, cowboys, Indians, that sort of thing. But eventually when I got into a profession, then certainly I knew where I could go for good ideas.
Where were you educated in in Washington?
Yeah, public schools growing up. I went to Central Washington State College for a little over 3 years and then I went off into the Marines.
And when did you decide to become a professional soldier? Was that an inevitable result of your background?
No, I'd been interested in the Marines since a young age. My older brother was in Vietnam when I enlisted into the reserves, the officer candidate course in particular. And I don't think I had the intention of making it a career at that point. I wasn't close-minded about it, but it was to go in and uh and do my time. In those days we had the draft, there was little choice. Uh and then look around, see what else was out there.
I like to ask my guests about the skills and temperaments involved in in your profession. So, the first thing I want to ask you along that line of questioning is what what do you see as the skill set and temperament that that are really important for a Marine?
Underneath its rather Prussian uh exterior, uh we expect people who are very curious. Uh they have got to have a curiosity about life that will carry them beyond uh any kind of institutional learning. Uh the Marines enjoy having people who are somewhat mavericks, frankly. Uh they protect them and [clears throat] they find many times that that sort of independent thinking is a big help to our corps and its mission, which has been heavily into the small wars and the minor interventions. Of we can always fight the bigger wars, but you have to be ready to fight in any climate place. And in that regard, uh there's nothing new really under the sun. You can always find a history book somewhere that can guide you. So, there's a strong bent towards intellectual rigor and a historical appreciation of where we're at today. Uh obviously uh physical fitness, uh Marine officers are expected to be at the top of their game. And then there's another aspect, whether you call it spiritual or emotional or psychological, where you actually see your attitude as a weapon uh when you go into tough times, and that transmits down through your ranks. So, it's a combination of the mental, of the physical, and the spiritual, or as Confucius would put it, body, mind, and spirit.
One of the themes that I identified in your career as as a general and as a soldier is learning, a real commitment to to learning through time. So, what you know today may not be the most useful thing in your new situation. Talk a little about that because you're suggesting that your soldiers have to have that also.
Uh yes. Uh I joined the Marine Corps where the Commandant of the Marine Corps has his own reading list. And [clears throat] all Marines at the rank of private will read these three or four books. Plus, there's a couple other additional ones if they're interested. Every corporal reads a different set. Sergeants a different. Lieutenants, majors, generals have their own reading list. When they make general, they're not allowed just to fall back on what they already know. They have to read a different set of books. So, as a Marine Corps that in a very accountable way, very abrupt way, frankly. Uh I've been under commanders and executive officers who, if you didn't do your reading, you spent the weekend reading the book and reporting to them on Monday morning. So, there was a a an institutional expectation that you would continue to learn. Uh and frankly, uh over many, many years, uh I can, for the younger officers who might view this lecture, tell them how they can become four-star generals. They can fight enemies who are dumber than a bucket full of rocks. And those are generally enemies who have not had the same rigor in pressing themselves to learn from history and to be curious about the world around them. So, as a Marine Corps that had that expectation, and the Marine Corps rewarded you uh institutionally with promotion, with certain plum assignments if you did that kind of reading.
You in in one of your talks that I heard, you you emphasized the the the qualities of humanity. In other words, that you say at at one point, you know, it's good to have a sense of humor as a Marine.
Mhm.
Talk a little about that because it it's not what we normally think about. Obviously, there has to be a sense of purpose.
Yeah.
But but but but uh that that keeping in touch with your humanity is important.
Well, I'm here on this campus for the Nimitz lecture series. And I would just tell you in studying him in preparation for this, it was very clear that as difficult as his task was to take over the war in the Pacific with the Pacific Fleet on the bottom of Pearl Harbor pretty much, uh he never lost sight of the fact there were human beings on both sides of that war. Uh he did his duty. He he dealt very strong blows against the Imperial Japanese Navy and Army, but he never forgot there were human beings on both sides. And the the task is so grim, and I'm a Marine infantry officer, we're people who close with and destroy the enemy in what we can call intimate killing. Uh you cannot go into something like that and not be changed. So, at times, a sense of humor is almost like body [clears throat] armor on your body. This is armor around your spirit as you keep your spirit from going so grim with some of these situations that it actually deals uh damage to your spirit. Uh I think too that when you look at uh this sort of uh this sort of aspect, uh the only way you can return young men, and again, I was in the infantry, and the infant is known as infantry, infant soldier, young soldier. Uh the only way you can return them to civilian society as better citizens is to make certain you don't allow the grim aspects to basically define them. They've got to be able to do very bad things without becoming bad or evil in the process. That is a tough line and it takes constant nurturing of the young men who often times are so young, you're in a role of loco parentis. You're acting really as their parent.