Destiny VS. NotSoErudite in EXPLOSIVE Confrontation and Erudite Won? Jaystalk Review

Edgy jokes. You're asking a bad example. Are the Republicans being nice? When are the Republicans nice? When are they being nice to people? Saying that pointed to multiple things. I've talked about his nuking of Tees relationship. Kyla, like, actually honestly, kind of won this debate. Uh, she actually kind of like made good points, but she couldn't press any of them. She just wasn't capable. And it was so fun. Tantis didn't even get a debate with the meanest guy on the planet. So it seems like it didn't affect them too much being mean. But also now you can't talk to any of these people, which is ineffective, which is my entire argument. It's well, this is all hateful rhetoric that seemed to have been pretty effective. No, in between this when I had to walk away, I had to check cuz Aerodites made like three or four good points. I had to make sure my carbon monoxide detector was on. I went and tested it. It's working. I am not hallucinating. This is happening over and over again. Go take a look at Wick TV. Go over to his panel from today. Not that one. Panel from today on edgy jokes and dehumanization. Oh boy, this is going to be a long one. 3 hours 38 minutes. I'm excited. I actually, I feel like this is going to be good. Okay. I heard good things about this, this debate, that it was funny. Okay. Was so good. JTO Destiny looked like a dummy. Uh, I don't need Destiny to look like a dummy. Um, as far as edgy jokes go, I probably share some opinions with him, but it's not, it's certainly not a downside. Okay. Certainly not a downside. Has JTO seen the funny cherry tweet of this? No, I have not. I saw, I saw that she tweeted a clip from this, but I didn't see the funny tweet. I, I'm probably gonna do, do I want a preview or do I wanna, I'm gonna watch for a little bit and we'll see if I want to do a preview. Uh, in the 2024 election and roughly 100 million got spent on newspaper ads by the Democratic party in 2024. Uh, Democrats are scared of alternative media. The reason why they're scared of alter, Connor, Connor's alternative media is because we have people like Bosch jerking off to Kitty Horse. We have people like Hassan, uh, you know, hanging out with terrorists, and we got, are we, wait, are we gonna say Destiny? He is gonna say the Destiny thing. What about Destiny's tweet talking about that 12-year-old girl having sex with her boyfriend? Is that real? I saw those, I saw those tweets getting referenced. Okay, people sent me them and then I was like, I went and looked, I, I couldn't find them. So that was weird though. I was, Is that real? I don't know if that's real. Okay. Uh, talking about dead kids in Texas and how they deserve to die because they were jerking off to, you know, uh, with using a VPN. So, uh, this is the kind of that is going to push normies away. It's going to push the mainstream away. It's going to push those dollars away. Uh, and so as a result, it's not whether or not you can make up jokes. I don't give a [ __ ] about that. What I give a [ __ ] about is we got real work to do. Okay. Destiny, answer for your crimes. Um, yeah. I just, I don't really think there's much of a downside unless you let there be a downside. I think that conservatives are allowed to, unless you guys listen. Unless somebody points out that I'm doing something wrong, okay? Unless somebody points out that I'm doing something wrong, then there isn't really a downside. Okay? All you have to do is just not criticize me and then there's no downside. Guys, what are we doing? To have humor. I thought comedy was legal again. And I think that the big issue with Democrats being scared of, I don't think anybody here, by the way, that's like a total straw man. Right. Connor didn't go, "Oh, you shouldn't be allowed to say that." I don't even know if Connor goes, "Oh, you know, well, I think he does with Hassan and Vos." Unfortunately, that would be an important distinction to do on Connor's part. You don't have to say, "Oh, you shouldn't be allowed to say that." It's like, yeah, you should absolutely be allowed to talk about how you think it's funny that kids died. You should ab, but I don't want to be in a movement with you, right? Like I don't want to be in a movement with you. You're you're I think that's like harmful to my movement. I, I don't think that's how you do politics is celebrating the death of kids or or looking like you're celebrating the death of kids or mocking other people for being upset about it. I just don't think that makes any sense. Alternative media is that they're scared of like any environment that they don't have like optimal control over. And I think they dramatically overestimate how much the public gives a about edgy jokes. And I think it has less to do with edgy jokes and more to do with who has the power in the situation. And so if you have the power, unironically like what conservatives used to say, find out who you can't make fun of and then you'll find out who controls you. And for a lot of things, yeah, conservatives can just make the most insane jokes ever and be fine. And Democrats have to be like tiptoeing around every single topic. I think it's funny to make jokes and we should keep making jokes. Okay, we're going to talk about it, I'm sure. Uh, not so Aerodite, Kyla, please. Yes. This has got to be rough. I thought Kyla and Desi were on the same side in this debate when I, when I saw this debate earlier. I thought it was, I thought it was a 2v2 of sorts. Is that not the case? Maybe they're not on the same side at all, cuz this, I don't know how Kyla could possibly support this stuff if, if like bullying people doesn't work. I feel like she'd have to be totally against this, right? So, I wanted to have this conversation cuz I care about real political outcomes. Um, I think if we claim to be evidence-based, left-leaning commentators who want to fight misinfo and push for positive change, we need to be honest about what works. So, it's fine for advocacy to reflect our personalities. Uh, oh, here's the here's the tweet. Apparently, got deleted. My 12-year-old daughter's crush is in my driveway powering our camper. I just pulled up to the house and she came outside to welcome me. I can't remember. Blah blah blah blah blah. 12-year-old daughter's crush. So, did he smash? I don't even know. Like where I thought not deleted just Oh, sorry. Somebody said it was deleted, but it is not deleted. It is there still. Okay, cuz I think there's a follow-up to this, isn't there? I just don't Dude, I, is like, is this politics? Is this guy a political person? 4,000 followers, husband to an amazing wife. Okay. I, I don't know how he ran into this guy. So, Diddy Smash, what was the first thing? Can't remember the last time she's actually done that. Lol. What a weird life. So, Diddy Smash. I hired the kid who is looking to make some money during the summer. My wife was home. There's absolutely zero reason for you to project your own degeneracy onto this innocent situation. You're not a good human. Guess not. I, Oh, I'm I'm blocked, so I can't like that tweet. I accidentally almost liked it. I like why I, I just don't get it at all. I don't get the Where's the Where's the Yeah. Where's the hypocrisy? Everybody's like, "Dude, he's pointing out the hypocrisy with the dead kids jokes." Is this pointing out hypocrisy? I don't even know. Like just It's just It's cringe. It just misses so hard in every way. You just don't get dark humor. I guess it's just weird. It's weird. Weirdo behavior. Predator com, predator comedy. Jesus Christ. I'm going to shill this thing over so that doesn't happen again. Jesus. All right, back to it. Hold on. Is this like when they said Israel is the bad guy in Superman? Um, yeah. That's sort of the same level of analysis. Yes. That people are like, "Oh, it's it's just about it's about hypocrisy and the California wildfires." Yes, I can't even post Destiny's joke without getting with auto, without automod getting me. Anyway, if we just do something because it feels good, it's probably important that we don't confuse that with what's effective. And what I would argue for is we don't have to be maximally effective at all times, right? I would never advocate for that necessarily, but the evidence typically shows whether it's psychological theory or basic behavior science that shame and being super nasty typically is a bad motivator for change, particularly for people who view you as the out group. And so in my mind, uh, uh, that one I would agree with. If, if people view you as like a loser and like they hate you and you're shaming them, that's never going to work. I agree. Um, if the goal is to move people and actually shifts hearts and minds, we need to make sure that we're being mindful of like how we're coming across, right? If we want to claim moral superiority, well then we can't be doing things that make us look morally more questionable. If we think that scorching or going scorched earth and dunking leads to progress, we should probably stop kidding ourselves. It probably doesn't. Um, and I think one of the things that I think is Steven's strength specifically is his ability to kind of be that token liberal in conservative spaces. I think he's that he's been What? Why would you say that's his strength? It's not his strength anymore. The entire reason it worked before was because he he like actually engaged with them as human beings. He was trying to Lauren Southern. He's trying to get in a long-term relationship with Lauren Southern. So, he treated conservatives like he cared about them or they were human beings. But that was just like his literal camouflage to try to Lauren Southern to try to keep a relationship going with Lauren Southern. It was not his actual truly held belief that he should engage with these people or do anything. Right. So, I don't know why we're pretending he's trying to do this or trying to like, it's not there's no positive engagement there anymore. He does not he can't be the token liberal when he is a total degenerate human being, right? When he's a complete piece of you can't do that anymore. Well, at least not in popular conservative spaces. Yeah, popular conservative spaces. There's a chance like people like Andrew Wilson would still talk to Desty. Well, more than a chance he would still talk to him, but that'll be debates. That'll be it won't be with like a lot of the more popular conservative commentators. Definitely not. But Myron respects him. True. Myron does respect him at being like that one liberal where they go, "This guy's pretty reasonable," which essentially introduces a fundamental binary paradigm shift for a lot of people listening. And I think that that's really important to do. And my suspicion is that this type of joke, while I don't really care about edgy jokes in and of themselves, my suspicion is that essentially this joke was more offensive than it was funny. And you lost a whole bunch of social capital with people that I think you could be more effective if you maintain that social capital with. Oh no. I have a Oh no. Oh no. The worst person, you know, just made a I wouldn't say great point, but like the obvious point that everybody thinks, oh, how will Destiny handle getting the mildest, most tepid of criticisms in the softest way possible from somebody he claims to be friends with? Surely he'll go, you know what? I'm going to take that under advisement. I think that's that could be reasonable. Yeah. You know what? I should think about that. A feeling that my criticisms of Soy Pill and Steven will be somewhat different. So, right now I'm angling them more at Steven, but I'm sure as as we talk there'll be stuff that is more directed at Soy Pill. So, yeah. We'll get to Soy pill in a second. Soyill. Speaking of the devil, go ahead. So, I thought Destiny's joke was pretty funny. Um, but somehow the right-wing was able to capitalize this and shift the conversation from uh horrible policy by I would just ask like what did you find funny about it? I think if the only thing you find funny is how outraged like the out group is, you're probably not really identifying like humor. You're just like them off, right? Like you could actually just you could actually like hurt these people in some way and they would get very outraged as well. It doesn't mean it's funny or good if that's the only thing you like is how outraged the other group gets. That's cringe. That's like that is like 20 what 2015 2016 2017 conservatives who would like who would out actually be like overtly transphobic to trans people just because they're like oh it's a it's it's funny guys it's funny right when I misgender this person it's just funny it's like well you could misgender them in a funny way absolutely but are you actually trying to do it or are you just like misgendering them and watching how mad they get and then going that's the funny part I mean and by the Hey, none of this is a moral argument. None of it's a moral argument. It's a like an optics or or political effectiveness argument, right? I'm never going to say that you shouldn't be allowed to say these things. You should I in fact do, right? Do say these things. I'm perfectly psyched for you to say these things. Ted Cruz and the right-wing got a bunch of people show people who you are. That's that's awesome to Oh, some guy was mean. Uh, so we're letting the rightwing drive this outrage machine. They don't care. Margie Taylor Green can call us all. She doesn't get repercussions. The only reason we're allowed to do it now is because uh they're blocking the Epstein file release. But vibes do matter. And look at the vibe conversation. Like Kamla didn't lose because she was too mean. She lost because she didn't go on these podcasts where she could be more authentic. Joe Rogan, Theo Vond, Nelk Boys, and they tell Holocaust jokes, jokes, like all sorts of wild. Like it's this idea that uh oh well, you're not authentic enough, but also you have to be prim and proper and perfect because if you don't, like you're not cool. Um, I'm not arguing for there to be no policing. Uh, we can call it illegal things like uh calls to violence crimes, but why waste our time complaining about optics to some arbitrary amount of voters who care about optics over policy? Um, I'm willing to change my mind. I don't know, Kyla, you might have this. If you can show me some data that says, oh, voters left the Democrats because of crass humor and meanness, but I've heard far more people say they leave um crimes. Dude, I man, I it just seems so easy to just like I don't know why you would compare to me. It's just weird that you would compare joking about uh dead kids in like a hurricane. It's explicitly joking about the kids who died, not a hurricane, a flood that you explicitly joke about the kids and comparing that to what is it like calling people. There's like I don't know this inability to like identify that kids are a group people empathize with almost no matter what. That feels so inhuman. I don't know. Why are you in politics if you can't feel human emotion at all? It feels very bizarre to me. The drown kid joke is pretty funny. I, I don't know the exact jokes because again, I try not to cover them on stream. I just don't want to cover like overt outrage bait on stream a lot of the time. But I just, I don't know. It just feel it feels odd. It feels weird and telling white men to sit down and be quiet. Uh, so I say let the white boys have their summer. Stop wasting energy clutching your pearls at nothing. Save it for educating people on policy that actually matters. We tried to go high when they go low. We lost two elections doing it. They're going to find outrage regardless. It's a waste of time. Okay. And with that, let's open the floor. Go ahead. So, is he arguing that going high, like not calling people in return is what lost you elections? Cuz like, are we to going to totally ignore the fact that like there were progressives and Democrats who were supported are advocating for like more permissive gender therapy for minors? Are we going to ignore that? Are we gonna say that there is no no basis whatsoever to some of these things that like, hey, this is a or gender topic, right, that has to do with kids that you're being like overtly permissive of in a way that society isn't caught up to? We're going to pretend that that didn't exist at all. Okay. All right, cool. I just want to make sure we're going to disconnect from reality there. Go ahead, gang. Uh, yeah. So, so actually, let, let's go ahead and you, you tell me number one, which part is funny. I'll tell you which part is funny to me. Um, and then also tell me where we're talking about Ted Cruz's policy because that's part of your rebuttal is that there's this 30,000 IQ appeal to hypocrisy understanding baked into the tweet. So, let's see if we can find that through some literary analysis. So, uh, I heard God those kids. Okay. Because they NordVPN. I'm not done yet. Oh, you think that's funny? No. No. Do you want me to tell you why I think the joke is funny? Uh, in a second. So, uh, they are using your VPN promo code Destiny. Hold on real quick. Real quick, I just, I just want to explain the promo code. As much as I hated this joke and it me off, promo code VPN was hysterical. Like, that's the part I thought was funny. That's the funniest part of the joke. Right. Okay. All right. Now, to get around the Texas ban, gross. The girls who got were 8 years old to 13 years old. Okay. Now, where is the appeal to hypocrisy amongst conservatives? And where's the explanation of like Republicans canceling funding for o? This is going to be rough for me because Counterpoints is right, but he's also trying to do like comedy analysis and that is naturally going to make me bristle. So, it's kind of up or for doing the siren in this area. Well, so you're attacking two different arguments in the same breath. Well, one of them you're saying that somehow edgy jokes must also be calling out hypocrisy. I don't think that's necessary. I just authentication that DG is doing 100%. Well, I'm not DG. If you want to talk to DG, talk to them. I'm talking that's what a bunch of people in my chat do, guys. They're calling out the hypocrisy over the California wildfires and how they blame California politicians for for all the property damage. That's what it is. Yeah, you're cringe. Just be like dead kids are funny. I like I like jokes about dead kids. Listen, jokes about dead kids can be funny. You ever watch an Anthony Jesselin special? That's the premise. I think Anthony Jessel's funny as okay. They can be funny. You don't have to not joke about them. I would just be careful that if you're going to joke about them and then use politics as a shield, you look kind of weird. Well, no. He's mid. Uh, the dead babies jokes with Anthony Anthony Jesselick aren't actually what makes him funny, but there are funny jokes in his specials. Well, I'm saying that edgy jokes are fine and we should also be calling out uh, you know, hypocrisy from the Republicans. You don't need to do these things in the same breath. But second of all, uh, if anything, I, if I'm not mistaken, did Destiny not go on Piers Morgan and and then defend uh the hypoc, attack the hypocrisy to like a whole crowd of millions of people? Like that is a conversation starter as much as you might not like it. So, so Steven, that, that Yeah, Lily Gatis got on Piers Morgan by saying the hard R repeatedly. Was that a useful or helpful conversation starter? Uh, what was it? Crack, crackhead Barney. Crack is it crack baby Barney? Crackhead Barney. That person got on by being half naked harassing Alec Baldwin at a Starbucks or something. Was that a useful discussion starter? I don't know, man. That's an important question. Did uh did you think that you were going to become a Is this a an avant-garde marketing strategy? Did you think you were going to get a invite from Pierce Morgan? You're like, I'm going to tweet out about dead kids jerking off to and this is 100% going to result in people inviting me onto their shows. Possibly. I would just like to clarify one part on the joke, though. You said that it was gross that they were underage and it was a joke. Well, that was why God was punishing them. If they were adults that were using NordVPN to watch, then God wouldn't punish them. So, it wouldn't make any sense, would it? God would punish them. Number one, can I just wait to answer the question because um did I know I can I don't know. Maybe, maybe not. Um I generally at this point when it comes to educating conservatives I don't Yeah. Like I, if it was like it was anything but just forcing it, right? You're just forcing it so hard for no reason. Don't necessarily make these jokes. Yeah. Here's the thing, Porter Beller. I hate it when progressives do this. Oh, I'm like calling this person out. I'm calling you out. I'm calling you out. I'm calling you out. Oh, I was wrong about Well, I was just trying to start a conversation. That's unironically what DJs do when they do the copes around these tweets, right? I was just trying to start a conversation, guys. Shut the up. No, you weren't. You're in over your head. You You said you did something that you didn't understand and now you're getting backlash for it and now you're saying, "Oh, well, I was just starting conversation." As if that helps or or fixes things. Like this some huge grand master plan in mind. Um, I just think liberals need to be way less [ __ ] soy about making fun of uh conservatives for they've like moved the window of acceptable behavior so unbelievably far in one direction that at this point I refuse to be policed by actual subhuman degenerate filth about what we can or can't joke about when they make the most unhinged degenerate jokes ever. And I have seen absolutely zero evidence whatsoever that this go low, go high, whatever [ __ ] has ever worked ever for liberals. It seems like all of the most popular moments have usually been when they're kind of roasting the other side a little bit. So yeah, I don't know. And I feel like Joe Biden win an election. Was he like super overtly edgy to win his election or where was the edge to win that election? Aor won. Is that why Betto Aor won in Texas was because he was being so hardcore when he said that I'm going to take away your AR-15s. Was he gigachad in that moment? Was that a popular take that he had? I don't know. But the most popular take I remember bet having about weapons was when he said something about like your AR-15s. It was a big deal. So obviously you can be gigachad about good things and you can be gigachad about bad things and you can get punished for being gigachad about bad things and rewarded for being gigachad about good things. Right. This stands to reason. Yeah. I don't know that that wasn't really a joke he was making though. He was just saying a swear word. No. Yeah. But you, you made the correct me if I'm wrong, but you made the you're not black if you vote Trump. Was that him being edgy or is that just him being himself being like not really president of the argument that the time that Democrats have most succeeded is when they haven't been soy when they haven't been milktoast and they've stand on business? Well, I feel like I don't think I don't know if they've ever gotten I don't think they've ever gotten credit ever for being like kind and nice to conservative stuff. I just don't know. I don't think we're asking you to be kind or nice. I think you could have been incorrect. I'm just saying I'm just saying I'm just saying that in general was Biden not like sort of the idea of civility is Biden not civility politics like made manifest. Is that not his entire career? Is that not what he ran on? Hey, I'm the guy who can reach across the aisle. Did he not get massive margins in a bunch of the rust belt states because of this like this approach to um in general on the Democrat side this like call to um being kind and compassionate and empathetic and understand. I just don't know if like Democrats have ever gotten credit ever on that. I wanted to give Yeah, you're right. Everybody calls you. Yeah, I want to give Kyla a chance to get in. Sorry. Massive margins in those states over like opposing opposing Democrats. I should say trying to get in earlier. Go ahead. Make sure to reframe this because even So's opening made it seem like this is about edgy jokes, which is understandable because I think for Wick it's about edgy jokes. I'm not totally sure. I just want to be very clear. I don't give a about edgy jokes. I don't give a single rip. You make as many edgy jokes as you want to. I don't give a [ __ ] about any of this. What I care about here fundamentally is our predisposition in how we are willing to talk to the opposing side. And I think that that is something that is decaying not just amongst leftists, which it never existed, but I'm seeing it decay within liberals and I think that that is harmful to our cause. Right? So in the case of like Steven's edgy joke. Okay. Well, yeah, unfortunately it was way more offensive than it was funny. It was a little fancy. It was a lot offensive and it was made more offensive by the timing. So, it flopped to even the point that the left didn't like it. Right. But no. Okay. Oh, this is rough. This is actually rough for um I don't care about the panel topic. I will just change it now. Well, she's sort of engaging with the topic. I don't know if she realizes it, right? But this is the whole thing is she's saying you can do edgy jokes and like edgy jokes aren't morally wrong, but you're kind of kind of totally the optics. Let me know when she gives her opinion on something she cares about. I, Yeah, this could be cringe. God, her face filter is so jarring. I don't It's probably there, but again, I don't, I don't track the appearance. I don't really care. I'm not interested in just policing people people's edgy joke. What I'm interested in is thinking about how we talk to Wick Wick POV when he asked her to be on a panel about edgy jokes. I just don't care about edgy jokes. We're trying to police people's edgy jokes, guys. I just don't care. Okay. Well, wait, what? Huh? Well, that when I reached out over Discord, you said you do want to be on this what? And engage with one another. For example, Soy Pill, the way that you talked to Tally on that panel, I think is part of the problem. I don't think that this is how you are onlogically all the time. But I think Soy Pill, the way you talked to Tally on that panel was crazy. Um, what did he say? I think you should leave cuz I don't think you're helping this conversation. I think he was being rude during that moment, but he he kind of tried to make it clear. I don't think like manga people can't be engaged with. I just think you are I can't engage with you. For example, soy pill, the way that you talked to Tally on that panel, I think is part of the problem. I don't think that this is how you are ontologically all the time, but I think this idea ontologically all the time, okay? Where we talk to people of opposite ideas, we go as aggressive as possible and we try to tear down not just like who they are, but their humanity. I mean, some of the statements that I quoted from you saying I think were like pretty Right. Tearing down. Oh, hold on. Do the quotes. Where was he tearing down her humanity? It's not just you're being a little bit mean. It's this entire orientation which says if we want democracy to work, we have to be able to talk to the other side. And while I'll be the first to say that I think the right is full of crazy people and they're crazy people and that we have to be able to talk to and convince to our side. And I'm not seeing that like the smug Wait, did he But does he disagree with that that you should be able to talk to I, I would maybe he'll lay it out and say I actually do disagree with that. I actually do think like trying to talk to these people doesn't work. Maybe he'll have that opinion, but it seemed like he bristled a little bit at that characterization in the previous debate. Nastiness or scorched earth policy that I would criticize Steven of with say like maybe a tectone or an Asmin Gold is going to be effective for polaring particularly moderates and undecided towards our position. Yeah. Real quick, just as a real quick thing on that, isn't that exactly what Trump did with the entire tech bro movement, though? Like, didn't he pull in a bunch of people like record high Hispanic voters, record high tech bro people, Elon Mus, like with the most divisive and vitriolic and toxic rhetoric ever? Didn't he pull in a ton of people stupid, please? Let guys, we need to reach out to Tech. Teone would be a liberal 100%. Yeah, Teone. Asmin Gold totally. If Asmin Gold didn't see the business opportunity, I don't think I don't know. I, I have I go back and forth on Asmin Gold now. I can't tell if he's like actually smart sometimes. The the business acumen like his in terms of like he found a niche and he's like making so much money. I almost wonder if that's the only reason he's doing his sometimes, but I guess that's not really it's neither here nor there. He seems to be willing to defend anything from Trump. So, I don't know how much you're pulling him over to your side. See the accelerationist clip? No, but give me two seconds. I'll be right back. Didn't he pull in a bunch of people like record high Hispanic v voters, record high tech bro people, Els like with the most divisive and vitriolic and toxic rhetoric ever? Didn't he pull in a ton of Sure, but people are stupid. I want to hear Kyla finish. Please let Kylo finish. The issue is you would have to submit to me evidence that it was him being a [ __ ] versus Kamla a getting switched last minute so they didn't even know who they were voting for and b on top of that her entire mantra was essentially let's keep things the same when people desperately wanted change. So maybe the point isn't that it's attracting voters necessarily. It's the point is that it's clearly not alienating all these moderates that they're still voting for him in these record high numbers. like this isn't the poison that's going to destroy the Democratic party and their chances of winning. Yeah, but Tally is the person that's winnable. I watched the uh Tallybots live in her bully session is stupid and I don't think that doesn't matter being nice to her is going to win her over. We should be educating her on policy. That's a completely different conversation. Oh, I don't necessarily agree with that. There's a lot of dumb people in America. Also, I'm back. There's a lot of dumb people in America. You might have to reach out to some dumb people to win elections. Turns out possibly research suggests that possibly even up to 50% of people are below average in intelligence. So I don't know if he's never heard that fact before. That's that stat. But that stat was shocking to me. And I feel like personally you might have to talk to dumb people. You just might. You might actually have to do it. Anyway, soy pill, regardless of whether or not you question Tally's individual intelligence, up to 50% of people are below average in intelligence. Actual real study done by statistitians. Democracy is about appealing to stupid people, right? I don't know if you can do that. You don't know. Hey, hey, let counterpoints finish his point, then you can respond. Comment on me for five minutes and then I can give my real position. No, no, no. I, I, I'll, I'll take about 1 minute and on top of that, I'll be very precise with my language which doesn't have anything about your character involved in it. Okay. What's funny actually just real quick guys, I'm going to get off Twitch. I'm going to go to kick only. Okay. I'll put the kick link in here. Go to kick only rest the stream. We'll see you guys over there. All right. Kickon rest the stream. Thank you twitch viewers. We're headed over to kick. We'll see you over there. Love you guys. Bye-bye. Stopping the kick stream. Sorry, stopping the Twitch stream. Actually stop the Twitch stream only. Go and kick only. All right, here we go. Here we go. Here we go. I'll give them like two minutes to switch over, one minute to switch over, whatever it is. Caps lock still suck. Okay. All right. Here we are. We're headed, we're headed back into the debate. Let's Let's back it up 5 seconds which doesn't have anything about your character involved in it. Okay. What's funny is Tally is in a red state, but she's a blue person. She did not think that her vote really mattered and what she wanted was to do a protest vote. Effectively saying the Democrats are not catering to me as a part of the base and I am your natural supporter. And your guys' reaction to that so far hasn't been, damn, we lost kind of like a, a progressive liberal girl. What are we doing? That's so offputting. Your entire perspective has been struggle sessioning her and calling her an idiot. Which, by the way, other moderates are going to see and they're going to be like, well, you too. I called her for, for to be clear. And second of all, I'm not saying that we shouldn't be advocating for educating people on what policy affects them and how they should be voting. But clearly, but clearly if this person is so adverse to learning about the consequences of policy that whoever was mean to her last or whatever kind of perception she has of which party is nicer or less like adverse, like that's what she votes on. Why would I waste time on this person? Let me finish. I let you finish your stupid thing. Okay. Okay, so if this person, you know, is going to weight their their interests in the completely incorrect way, I'm just going to call them to and move on. That's honestly probably not the way to approach it if electoralism, if electoral outcomes are the thing you're chasing, right? That's that's almost certainly not going to work. That just, that just won't. There are ways you could say like you could try to explain that to a person and if you're not calm or if you're not like willing to be patient with them, that I understand it can be frustrating because a lot of these people the second you stop talking to them, they'll reset. can be incredibly frustrating, but you have to be trying. You have to be trying to do it or they're not going to hear anything. They're just going to hear somebody who's like screaming at them and pushing them back in the direction they're already, I guess, maybe fleeing from. I don't know. Blue person, red state, I don't even know. No. So, when she is on a platform and the the topic is, hey, Tally, what do Democrats need to do? That's when I'm going to come at you for like my channel is about reaching out to Trump supporters, which a very different thing. I understand the point of compassion, the point of letting them speak, and understanding why they voted so we can change them. But when these pundits are out here saying the dumbest ever displaying their lack of intelligence, I'm going to come up and I'm going to be mean to them because that's my authentic feeling is that they're they need to shut the up. That's a very different conversation than trying to convince a swath of people to come over. And these things can be done in parallel. Okay. So, uh, I want to acknowledge what Wick said, which is effectively that she was in an overwhelming blue state, so she didn't think that her vote was going to matter. So, it was the opposite of what I said, but the point still stand. All right. So, here's my frustration with this. Okay. So, I get exactly what you said. And on top of that, plurality of tactics. All right. So, if Stephen wants to be edgy, you want to have debates and then you want to be nice to some people but mean to some people. I totally understand a plurality of tactics. Okay. But what I'm saying is there's something so fundamentally obvious that should be acknowledged by every single Democrat and isn't, which is effectively on October 7, 2023, you Hold on. Let me get Let me get his theme music going. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Here we go. Had tons of progressives. Not just leftists saying prison. So what was supposed to do? Why? Not just leftist saying prison. So what was Yeah, there's like a cut here. I don't know what he said. supposed to do while there's people getting raped and murdered on Twitter and then a bunch of go, "Oh [ __ ] my progressive coalition, my multi-ethnic, multi-religious coalition actually views me as subhuman and laughs when my people get murdered. What the?" And they got so turned off from the Democrats. I think the issue here isn't about edgy jokes. The issue is that legitimately a lot of people on the left supported terrorists attacking Israel. I think that was the issue. Well, no. That's why I brought a lot of really big creators on the left supported terrorist attacking Israel. Brought it up in my intro. Yeah, but in violence, dude. This isn't This isn't This isn't an issue of like edgy humor. This is an issue of like really incompatible policy positions. I think I, I think the issue when it comes to this like weird like um joke or rhetoric policing, you've got like I don't know enough about Talia, but was that her name? Talia. Tali. Tali. Yes. Tali. Okay. So I like I'm not I'm not saying she's an extremist or whatever just because I just don't know her positions, but it feels like when talking about her the it's the equivalent. Yeah, that that's the thing. Stalin sloth. I can't imagine people moved away in numbers and then who is getting who's the person like we have a lot of evidence that these people aren't flocking away. Why is October 7th even a talking point here? Did October 7th off a lot of I actually have no idea. Very interesting of um like soy pill or the soy pill over here is like somebody who speeds occasionally in his car and Tali is like kind of sort of wanting to support the mob and then you know we've got the soy pill speeding in his car and we're like well she's just not going to side with you if you're a criminal and it's like okay I just don't think speeding is that big of a deal. It's not really about the speeding. It's the fact that how are you aligned with the mob and complaining about one side speeding that just doesn't make any sense to me. That's so not in the so we have to stop framing this as an edgy joke issue. Maybe that's Connor's issue. I don't know. And this isn't even a moral issue to me to be super frank. What I'm talking about is effectiveness. I do not think that super divisiveness is what is effective. I don't think it's what's been effective for Trump I at all in any way because he lost in 2016 despite getting smeared aggressively by the Democrats. He still won had a weak presidency and then Joe Biden won because everyone was sick of how divisive he was and then he won again. I So there's a multiple things going on here. I'd say there's um there's like a thing that's happening with Biden where he was perceived as divisive by some people, but I don't know if he was really actually in reality materially divisive. I don't know if I call him a divisive president to be honest. But again, in large part I think Biden won because I think Biden won because of co I think co the whole world up and everybody's mad. But it's like Trump tried to steal the presidency and like didn't lose as bad as anywhere as he should have and then he won again and Trump is like the probably the most divisive president or person pure that I've seen in I don't know my lifetime. So it just seems like the divisiveness is not a thing that scares people away from your movement. I just don't know where that idea comes from cuz like especially if you look at the big group of people that vote for him, white people like what's the reason they cite the most for wanting to be with Trump? It's like wokeness which seems to play right into divisive and edgy jokes. Well, actually, part of the issue is wokeness is something that you guys don't really do. Maybe Soy is leaning into it. I'm not really sure. Wokeness is generally this like PR policy of cancelling and like purifying people out of our group to say that they're not good enough. That's calling everyone a racist and all these sorts of things. It's a thing that got you banned off of Twitch, right? Sorry, I'm trying to just make sure I catch this. How does woke equals edgy jokes? Well, no. I think he said it's the opposite, right? You cut against wokeness by doing edgy jokes. I think he was saying the opposite there. Am I wrong? For wanting to be with Trump. It's like wokeness which seems to play right into divisive. So wokeness is why people at least tally went over to Trump and edgy jokes with Trump. It's like wokeness which seems to play right into divisive and edgy jokes. So Trump makes divisive and edgy jokes. That's why he's not woke. That's why wokeness like doesn't work. I would say it's hard to know whether whether or not wokeness is the absence of edgginess or the like or what or like in a what do you call it? In like a positive pressure way advocating for certain policies that people consider woke, right? Trump doesn't advocate for certain policies that people would consider woke, but he also does the edgy jokes. I don't know if the edgy jokes or the the policy position advocation is what gets called on. I'm not sure. I, I feel like it's a, it's like an amalgamation that's still really hard to define even now. Well, actually, part of the issue is wokeness is something that you guys don't really do. Maybe Soy is leaning into it. I'm not really sure. Wokeness is generally this like PR policy of cancelling and like purifying people out of our group to say that they're not good enough. That's calling everyone a racist and all these sorts of things. It's a thing that got you banned off of Twitch, right? And it's a thing that if Soyill went on TikTok for one second, it would get banned him off of because he uses edgy jokes, too, right? You give an example. I'm saying he's saying it's the opposite that wokeness wokeness is why people went to Trump and that that dovetailes with edgy jokes as in Trump would make edgy jokes or people around Trump and people who convinced people to vote for Trump made edgy jokes. That's like the that's the idea, right? That people and the absence of edgy jokes around race or around uh identity, gender identity, this kind of thing. That absence and the the apparent like cancellation of people for edgy jokes around that stuff is what wokeness was. That's what the argument he was making is. He wasn't saying wokeness and edgy jokes go together. I don't believe that's what he was saying. So wokeness is incredibly divisive and it is driving people away because people hate it. And so when I'm talking about being mean, I'm not saying don't be mean. That's never been my position. I'm clearly mean to people all the time. What I'm saying is we have to be mean effectively. And I don't think scorched earth is effective policy. In the case of your joke, it was

funny. And I bet you, if you gave it two weeks to breathe, it might have actually landed super well. Unfortunately, it didn't because the offensive level was higher than the funniness. Probably because of the immediacy of the event happening. Unfortunately, right? I'm not saying don't make like that analysis can't ever be applied to anything for conservatives though. How, how is why do we have? But I would say it almost certainly can be applied to conservatives. Now, will MAGA people on Twitter like do that? I don't know. I don't think so. It seems like when one of them goes out and says, "Oh, this is actually offensive," that all the other MAGA influencers kind of like on them and pull them back in. So, there's like a mechanism there that pulls them back into line, right? Yeah. Conservatives winning. I don't care. You should care about them because you're saying you care about political effectiveness. They just want the both halves of. That's true. Oh, no. When can we get a pulse check on Destiny? Does he still think she's really smart and good at debate or Congress? They control the Supreme Court and they won the presidency even with a popular vote. So clearly what they're doing is effective. So I don't know how we can say, "Well, I don't care what I want to be calling people rats." Is that what is that what's effective? I think that's what people like about him. If you ask people what they like about Trump, they don't say the policy. They don't know any of Trump's policies. They don't say people. But I'm calling right now. Okay.

So, number one, I've had DGG in my comments for the past week because I've effectively had my milktoast criticism of the take or whatever, and what they've all said is like, "Well, look at how mean Teone was, and look how mean and stupid Asmin Gold is, and look how mean and stupid Donut Operator was in reference to the Palisades fire." And so I go and check the tweets, and they go, "Fuck you, Biden." That's kind of like, I don't know what people are confused about here. When I looked at all of the Palisades tweets like going after politicians and saying, "Hey, politicians led to destruction here." If somebody just tweeted, "Hey, you, what is it? Abbott, you Abbott. You didn't put an early detection in. You're a piece of Abbott. You," right? Then I think I think you wouldn't get any of this criticism. That's obviously true.

Now, I think Destiny wants the criticism. Destiny wants to be polarizing, right? He's actually rage baiting. So that's the problem is like he's not worried about political effectiveness in any way. He is growing his platform. He is trying to get people to come listen to him. Like that is that's just a total difference in what they actually want to accomplish. Right? I think that's the thing that's camouflaging this is Destiny will say he cares about political effectiveness, right? He doesn't. He just cares about, what do you call it, aggrandizing himself. Yes.

So where's the direct analog to this specific behavior where you're making fun of dead people? Where, first of all, it wasn't just you Biden. One was a you to a request for FEMA funds. I think another one was blaming Biden and calling him old and decrepit for not, um, for what? For he didn't go to, he was either Texas or California or something. Another, it's not just about blaming Biden. One of them called Biden old and decrepit. Uh, brother, what are we? Are we good? Someone was like making fun of the DEI. Is it the exact same tasteless? Like, what is the, is that equivalent to mocking the dead? Connor's got the easiest argument here, right? He's got the easiest argument in the world. Yeah, you're making fun of dead kids. Who? Find me a right-winger who made fun of dead kids, right? And the right is going to find that potentially, or sorry, particularly annoying because they've done, remember critical theory. Okay, protecting kids is like a core identity of right-wingers right now. Uh, what do we have cited? The, like media, all of their media is driven around this. A ton of their media is driven around it. It's like, what stories actually do well in news for them? It's like, um, oh, what is the movie called with the child trafficking? Sound of Freedom. Sound of Freedom, right? Like this speaks to right-wingers, totally protecting kids. This is like a core part of their identity right now. And so when you do that, it is going to upset them. It is going to move people away. No, Sound of Freedom. Yeah. Yeah. Equivalent to mocking the dead. An equivalent to mocking the dead would be all of the Democrats, or not the Democrats. Uh, it would be Tim Pool and others who are making fun of the one dude on the street in New York that got stabbed to death in front of his girlfriend, who were like, "This is exactly the kind of thing that these guys vote for."

I would just ask, so this is probably a reasonable point to make. Did Hassan do things that were significantly more dehumanizing to laughing at those dead kids? Is that right? Like, did, or was Hassan doing like, "Oh, well, you know, obviously this was going to happen because Israel has them in like a clo, open-air prison, and it's really, and obviously there's going to be an attack." Like, they totally dehumanize these people. That's like laughing at. But he didn't laugh. Okay, he's laughing at stuff. There's one tweet that's bad where he denies. But I don't believe he ever laughed at. Rose. I'm sorry. I don't, I don't believe that. I said that in, by the way, October, November. I've said that the whole way through. I do not believe he laughed at. I do not believe it's the same. Okay. He laughed at the festival woman in the back of the truck. Truck. Okay. Give me that one. He laughed when someone was saying they were. I, you got to, you got to give me the clips. Okay. You got to, you got to give me the clips. Or the calling every Zionist is pretty dehumanizing, but it's not, it's not the same level. It's not getting into the, um, the same level of thing. And by the way, I can be accurate, right? I can be totally accurate with Hassan and say, "Yes, he does." This is the one that always stuck with me was, "Hey, what happened?" He's like, "What did Hezbollah do?" And he's like, "Brother, what did Hezbollah do?" What did? Right. I remember that one very explicitly. Denial in my opinion. That's the one that always stuck with me.

For example, it when they're all burning. Hold on. This isn't about being political. This isn't about being challenged. When a lady was on TV, I think. So, do you think you can laugh? So, if if Destiny just started laughing because somebody came on stage at CPAC or something and they were, they immediately went like they were talking about some political thing and then they started virtue signaling with like, um, some tragedy that happened, right? I don't think it's weird to laugh or to mock Republicans for when they use like Lake and Riley, right? When they've, when they've run Lake and Riley's like corpse, they've, they've literally written Lake and Riley's corpse for like eight years, sorry, like six years at this point, right? I mock that. It's weird. But if like she had just gotten killed, probably making jokes about her would be weird as well, right? But I, it's the idea of like you're laughing at a concept instead of laughing at the direct thing. Like the, the thing from that you're recalling where he laughed at somebody who was speaking who is the family member of a kidnapping victim where he like kind of smirked. I think he was basically saying like, "Oh, I don't need more atrocity propaganda." That's he's laughing about it, right? It's a different thing. I don't know. That's pretty easy to see to me. There's no, I, I don't even think it's like really that difficult to understand. Have you not read Lauren Southern's book? You have people unironically taking money to pedal false information. It's only the right that has done bad things. The basic is political effectiveness. Which one is? I have to back it up a little bit here. Vote for or the go-to example is it when they're all burning. Hold on. This isn't about being a higher standard. We already hold ourselves to a higher standard than Republicans. They have no morals. Have you not read Lauren Southern's book? You have people unironically taking money to pedal false information. It's only the right that is. Dude, could you imagine? Could you imagine? Oh my god. People behind the scenes like doing drugs, um, violating consent, doing all kinds of crimes and [ __ ]. I can't imagine, dude. Republicans have no morals. My god. Republican alt media, no morals. Done bad things. Is it political effectiveness? Which one is it then? Those are two different things. You hold on before we move on. That was that was pretty disingenuous on my part. I'll do because they're already doing bad stuff and I am saying I don't know if these are the standards that we want to hold ourselves to. For example, if it is, why don't you just spread a bunch of misinformation, paying for bot farms? That would be the question. The question is whether we want political effectiveness or moral standards. I, I think there's a different morality about making fun of people versus like lying about stuff. I think I would argue that these are two different things, but the question is just, is it are we talking about? Oh, wow. I can't imagine why somebody would feel the need to argue the separation between moral standards and political effectiveness. Guys, moral standards and political effectiveness, those are two totally different things. You could be politically effective with no, trust me, you could be very politically effective with no moral standards. Okay. Political effectiveness. You're talking about like having some go high when they go low road standard thing. No, I, I want to make one point and I want to challenge the audience, okay? Because what I'm hearing is turnabout is fair play. And so what I'm looking about is turnabout. That's exactly what I'm looking for. So if you want to come up with other egregious behaviors that the right-wing is engaged in, I'm going to agree with you. I endlessly about the $9 billion recision package that's projected to 14 million people. Trust me, I care way more about that than I care about Steven's up joke. Okay. However, that being said, if you're gonna say I'm not done yet, Aerodite, I'm not done yet, Kylo. Let points finish. Let's finish. He's soy ranting. Let him soy rant, Kylo. Anyways, so I challenge you. Send it to my DMs. Send it to my email. Show me where these alt media pundits have been on the dead people in the Palisades fires. Send it to me, please. Now it's your turn. Go ahead. Okay. Sorry. You know what he's going to get, right? He's going to get like the Amaranth joke or something. It's going to be Amaranth. I shouldn't go Agro and Conor. He's my debate partner.

So, the issue for me is that moral standards can be part of a political effectiveness, particularly if they're your espoused moral standards, right? The left typically has stood on some level of moral standards. We think that we're better. We're not trying to steal elections. We're not trying to spread misinformation. We're not trying to take away people's rights. That's the standards that we stand upon. Which is why it would be really ineffective advocacy if we say all these things and then there's evidence that we're doing the opposite. This is why MAGA is in an absolute blowout right now because one of the standards that they cared about was like truth and justice. This is, this is rough because this I, I believe this unfortunately, right? If you, if you advocate for something and you have like totally, if you advocate for something and it's really core to a lot of your base and you're found to like being to be lying about that, that is that is tough. That's something is very difficult to come back from. Absolutely. Particularly around the Epstein files and Trump is completely caving to that and it is causing a massive Republican fallout. There is massive schism going on as a result of them not standing up to some of their standards. Now, I agree that the Republican standards of being a pundant is not the standards that I want the left to have. But that's because I think the left is right. I think reality leans left. And there are certain standards that I don't want to fall to. And one of the standards, for example, here is one that I actually don't think Republicans fail very hard, which is how we talk to people who we disagree with. Typically, when I go into Republican spaces, they're going to say a bunch of stupid information and they're going to spread misinformation. At worst, they'll be bad faith. However, if I go into leftist spaces, as you personally know, Stephen, as soy pill, I does kind of, I, I don't think Kyla gets treated very nicely in these spaces. Is she like, I've watched Andrew Wilson talk to her. Okay. Andrew Wilson can be nice like after the fact, but I've watched some of the stuff Andrew Wilson says. He can be very, very mean. Okay. Bill Hader. Yeah. I, I don't know. Maybe like the behind the scenes conversations she has, those make up for it or something. But like publicly, overtly, I feel like they're quite rude. Anyway, literally just go on TikTok once and debate people and I'm sure you'll experience it. The leftists are deranged. They're super nasty. They try to destroy your career and they morally condemn you along lines and values that you hold, like not being a racist. And so we keep losing in these ways because in part we allowed the leftist to set the tone of what the left looks like, which we should have never agreed to at all. But in converse, no, you don't get to inverse. Yeah, it's a two-parted argument. I'm sorry, pill, if that's hard for you to keep up on. Okay. The second part, the second part is how we engage with those who are opposite. Some of the most, I will just say this. At the TPUSA event, every single conservative that came up was super excited to see Destiny. They're like, "He's so good." Uh, yeah. I don't, I don't get it either, guys. I don't get it either. Obviously, listen, I, by the way, we could save so much time. We could save so much yapping if we just did, "Hassan is bad," right? Couldn't we just go, "Hassan is bad"? Do, can we just do that? He's so smart. But man, I wish we wouldn't make fun of dead kids. And all through the canvasing events, do you know how many people came up to me who were conservatives who were pulled because of your Red Pill arc where to this day, Myron Gaines respects you because even though you disagreed with them the entire time and even though you were harsh on it, you were not nasty and you didn't go scorched earth or you didn't do this like smug condescending that like leftists and I think Soy Pill think is based. That was effective. It just was effective. And I think that there is mounds of evidence to support that. Okay, I'm still here. I'm just trying to. That, by the way, here's the counterargument. Okay, here's the counterargument to this. I think here's what they're going to say. Okay, yeah, lots of people said nice things. How many of them changed their vote? How many of those people went from voting red to voting blue? Right? That is the argument people will make in contrast to this. I think there's something to being able to have a regular conversation with these people. I understand. I'm civility politics pill all the time. All the time. Okay, I understand people don't like it. I get it. I get why they don't like it. I am that way. I am Canadian. I'll probably always be that way. Okay. But the argument from the other side that you have to address is how many of those people who came and said, "Oh, he really, he really like made me think better things about liberals." Okay, he made me think way better things about liberals. It's like, okay, so he took you from like hating liberals 99% of the time or with like 95% of your emotions to like 70%. To like 70. Let's go to Soy Pill and, uh, soy. Two things. One, in on one side of your mouth, you're saying, "Hey, the left is losing because we're policing and we're woke and we're calling people racist and we have these standards and it's driving people away." Which is, oh, this is the other one is that's why the left is losing, but also we're also losing because Hassan is way too way too aggressive on Israel. Okay, he's way too anti-Semitic. We can't have him around. All right, we need to allow Destiny to say, and also Hassan is way too extremist. We have to cut him off entirely. Like, we need to purity, we need to get rid of the purity testing and also purity test some out. It's, I really wish we could pick one. Is what is happening when people are complaining about Destiny's joke? Oh, you can't do that. That's crossing a line. And this is the exact thing I'm talking about in the beginning when I said there's an authenticity problem where people look at like a Dean Withers and a Harry Sison, and you just saw him maybe on the Adam Freeland show. He wouldn't say because he's like, "I can't do that. That's my Democratic, you know, handlers won't let me say the nasty words," and that's why no one likes them because they're lame and manufactured. Meanwhile, you've got all these people that Trump, you know, went on their podcast and he appeared authentic to and that's the reason why people say they like Trump is the being authentic and saying what you feel. And you can say, "Oh, I don't want to go down to that standard." But in the same. That's an interesting thing. That is an argument. It's very subjective, but it seems to get used against Democrats all the time is they seem like prepackaged. They seem fake. You're saying, "Well, we shouldn't steal elections. We shouldn't spread misinfo." Obviously. Obviously. But that is not what is happening right now. What's happening is people are policing jokes because, oh, they're too edgy and you're too mean, and when you say there's a way on, sorry, I'm sorry, I thought you were interrupting. It's not about educ. Before I can finish my sentence, if you keep straw-manning me, I'm going to interrupt you to correct your perception. My article is, you have to talk to me then. Stop saying jokes because that's not what I'm. Um, I think the, the not, but all you have to do here is say, do you have like a moral, is there like a moral good you're doing by being politically effective as a leftist? Do you have to be morally good? Because then if she's going to say, sorry, do you have to be, um, oh Jesus, do you have to be politically effective? Is it, is it morally a duty that you be politically effective as a leftist because the Republicans are so harmful? If she says yes, that we need to be morally, we need to be politically effective, then it is about edgy jokes for her, right? Like she, she keeps trying to disconnect and say, "No, it's not about edgy jokes at all. It's about like, well, we're not being the most politically effective we could be." And I'm making a political effectiveness argument. It's like, "Well, why do we have to be politically effective?" Well, they don't. They're detached from reality and they're going to do policies that destroy the country. It's like, well, it sounds like then it's about edgy jokes being bad in this case. His type of edgy joke was bad. I'm saying, why are we here, Kylo? Was it not because of an edgy joke? I literally said at the very beginning that that might be Wick's issue and that is, but that isn't my issue, and then I gave an entire argument. Didn't her argument boil down to like, if he'd waited two weeks, your joke might have, if you waited two weeks, your joke might have really landed, actually, just timing. It's like, stop trying to disconnect. I get it, but stop trying to disconnect. It's counter. Okay. So we, you, I guess shouldn't be here for the topic of the joke thing. You should be here for the, how do we talk to people? Obviously, I think I texted Rick and I said it's all okay. W Soy Pill. W Soy Pill getting that jab in. You love to see it. Connected. Let me explain this. It's all connected. These jokes is how we treat people. They feel that you're laughing, but it's true, right? If someone is making a joke, right, about something that someone deeply cares about and they get deeply offended, this will drive them to act. Oh, hold on. Reban Ruben donated $3. I prefer to edge my joke. Thank you very much, Reuben Ruben, for the three. Appreciate it, dude. Appreciate it. Appreciate you. Right. So, why do this? What, what upside? What gain is there? So her take, Erdite's take on political effectiveness is tied into the topic as a whole. That's why she's here. Anyway, continue. And I'm edgy and I'm. It is tied into the topic. Lick just gave us why it's tied into the topic, right? It is about the edgy joke for her, but she's just saying I won't like say edgy jokes can't be done. They just have to be done tastefully or they have to be done in the correct way. You're saying that edgy jokes are when you start your panel arc. I don't know. Weeks to have to appeal to the name of the debate so you can call. I'm not saying you're not so annoying. Please, please. I, we're friends. I'm not actually trying to dunk on you for that. I'm just like dehumanizing and being nasty. Then talk to me. Okay. So, I'm talking to you. So, yes, the dehumanizing, nasty, edgy jokes are part of an authenticity that you can see in places that appeal to young voters that are swinging away from the uptight policing Democrats that you are calling a problem and I agree is a problem. The overpolicing, the wokeness, the left stuff. And just to be clear, I don't think that just dunking and saying, "Oh, you're racist. You're stupid." is like, "Oh, it's based. We should always do that." The reason I did that to Tally is not because I think that's how you should talk to all Trump supporters. It's when they speak on an authority where they're saying, "Well, we know what we should do," is very different from understanding how you can win people over. And this idea that like, well, I have to be infinitely curious about why Tally, this [ __ ] decided to vote for Trump despite being gay, being, and having all of these things on her. But she doesn't have to be at all curious about why I might call her out about that, why she should vote for a Democrat is insane. It's a waste of time. It's a waste of energy. And we should be spending it educating people like that on policy and how it's going to affect them because that's the only way you're actually going to have political effects, not policing jokes. I think it's a waste of time. Okay. Sure. The first thing that you pointed to. Okay. So, he's saying no matter how civil I was, she's too dumb to like work into her own interest. She'd be much better served by you be bring her a policy Trump is going to enact is like, you know, I'm going to actually make it so gay people can't get married in your state or something. I'm going to make, I'm going to overturn gay marriage. Okay. A bridge fell or whatever. I'm going to overturn that. Like, if you could give her a policy that would affect her directly, that's going to be more effective than policing jokes is I guess Soy Pill's argument. Sounds like the first thing that you pointed to was a dialectic, right? You said on one side of your mouth, you're saying that we should stop like canceling people out and on the other side, we should, you're now essentially policing me for how mean I'm being. I'm talking about a dialectic here. I'm talking about the intolerance of tolerance, right? In the case of purity woke scolding, I think it's bad because I think it derails from the actual ideas. I think it typically targets people that it shouldn't be targeting because it's endlessly looking for new targets and I think it kicks out people that we align with fundamentally. I am not sitting here and saying you're not left or you're logically evil for these things. I'm saying you're ineffective and it's betraying our own moral standards that I think we have erected and I think we should stand to, which is that we want to engage with each other and we want to be able to talk to the opposing side. I think these things are mutually exclusive. That's what I'm saying. And also, can you please like, cuz I don't have data on this and this isn't me like calling you out. Could you show me where there's this like swath of voters that are turned off by this and didn't vote because of it versus which I think there's probably more data for who is saying, "Well, I'm looking for an authentic Democratic party," which I think edgy jokes like this, as much as you might say, "Hey, they're ineffective." I think they're much more effective. Strategy. Drugs aren't ineffective. Drugs aren't effective. Well, whatever, whatever. So, I, I still feel like I'd have to listen to Kyla's rant there again. She's saying it's a dialectic and like I'm not making a moral claim. I'm just saying that this is like not as effective as you could be, but also it's leading to us failing our own moral standards. So, I, ah, it fa, it still feels like she's talking, it still feels like she's talking a little bit out of both sides of her mouth. Um, oh, she left the talk. Well, so Bill wanted her to leave the talk. Second, you want to talk? No. No. Well, if you want to talk to me, just ask me my opinion. Right. What I would say is when I repeat, well, it's not just don't say it wrong. It's understand my position. That's what I'm asking you to do. You say political effectiveness. This joke itself was offensive. What about it was not politically effective? And then I will use that language every time I reference it. I, I'm not trying to straw you. I'm literally just trying to repeat what you said. Sorry. I, I'll tell you talking about, uh, you know, this is the thing is like you're you're saying the joke was bad. If you're saying the joke was bad, why was it bad? And what did it, why, how did it not have to do with the fact that it was an edgy joke? Like, what part of it is bad? And then I can critique that because you're basically when I start saying like, "Oh, well, you're you're doing you're take talking out of both sides of your mouth." You sort of retract, you retreat back to, "Oh, well, I'm not criticizing edgy jokes." I'd never criticize somebody's ability to make an edgy joke. It's like, well, but you've already said it's not politically effective and that when you're not politically effect, you fail politically, okay, and you fail to uphold your own moral standards with some of these jokes. Well, okay. Well, you're all the pieces are there. What are we doing? Pre-pubescent kids jerking off. Uh, that's probably the least politically effective aspect of the joke. We're going to be schlicking in this case cuz they're mostly girls. So to be clear, there's not going to be political data that you're asking for. And like people will say, well, I don't know the different like Connor was the one who brought up, um, like young people in a context and it's like to chastise, right? To chastise. It's like, Destiny, did you call, did you call this other this black conservative commentator a hard? And he's like, no, I called them a moon cricket, actually. And it's like, okay, that's not okay. I mean, you could, you can do that if you want. You can, by the way, disavow slurs, but you can do that if you want. And it can be like funny, but realistically, you're already getting like flak for it. It's like you're, you're just doing. Mau did this, right? And we can all, we can all see it with Mau, who we don't love, okay? We don't all love, but Mau will do that because he thinks it's funny to just violate norms, right? Is that a slur? That is a slur. Yes, it's a slur. So, it's, it is literally the slur that is funny in a vacuum. It's the only slur that's funny in a vacuum. Okay. It is. But with with Mau, like he'll, he'll continue to violate that boundary, right? He'll continue to violate it over and over again with regards to the threats or whatever the. And I understand how you can want to do that. It's, it could be funny, but I h, there's something tying to the in-group out-group thing when you're just doing it to the out-group. They have no feeling that you're doing it in a way that's like meant to convey any information. They can't perceive it. And a lot of people on the edges will just feel like it looks odd. It looks weird, looks bizarre. Large part, I think Blue Rose openly, actually David Shore talked to me about this and I asked him why he didn't include like wokeness as a reason why people voted and he was like, um, well, our list of 40 things was just kind of arbitrary fundamentally and he agreed probably it actually should have been included. It would have been interested to know. So, I don't have this data to give you where people like, "Well, man, Destiny was really mean this one day to me, so that's why I voted for Trump." Right? What I do have is psychological theory, right, about how people work. And what we're talking about here when we're talking about changing minds is we're we're talking about changing fundamentals or deep things to people's worldviews. And these are really, really hard things to change as anyone in psychology can tell you. And what I'm, and it hits different on a the creepy scale when it is a man that is pushing 40 instead of barely past 20 and that he's like meant to be a like a actual mainstream political commentator and that he has like a some questionable decisions around dating people young, some questionable statements around finding young people attractive, right? Like there are a lot of things that go together here where you can paint the picture where it's like, "Oh yeah, you probably can't make that joke, right?" Like it's the cannibal joking about how. It's the person who's like consistently making jokes about how humans taste. Okay. I don't know. It's, it's just we, it's weird. It again, it's hard to describe. There's like not an exact moral thing we can point to and say like, "Oh, well, you can't do it for this reason." It's like there's a constellation of things going on that it's just like, "Bro, I don't think you're the guy. You're not the guy for this, right? You're just not the guy anymore." I'm saying is that while edgy jokes can be useful because it code switches to young people that you're chill. Oh, she's reverbing herself. Don't give a about the PC and you can make a joke and run with it. The problem is that when you're smug, condescending, and nasty all the time, what it does is it doesn't code switch to anyone. Typically, people don't like condescension at all. In fact, that's why I think on your panel people were more mad at you than Sansol, who was saying Republicans and Koologs, which is way more extreme than anything you were saying. It's because you were being smug the whole time. So, it rubs people worse. And in general, shaming people for deep intrinsic beliefs doesn't cause people to change. In fact, there's a der of data. There's Darth. There's a, there's a large amount of data that shows it causes people typically to become defensive and move more towards their original position. Okay, she just used Der incorrectly. Uh, I think she caught herself there. Okay, so my position is not. We should be, uh, shaming. Oh, man, hold on. It's like so not worth it. But I'm going to go find a clip really quickly. Do I got the, do I got this? Oh, it's on Facebook. Never mind. Oh, I don't have the video. Too bad. Too bad. It's just, uh, it's from a show. It's just, uh, Ryan Fitzpatrick, quarterback from Harvard, telling somebody that Darth means lack of. Actually, Darth actually means lack of. So, there's a der, but she used it incorrectly as many people do. And people in mass to change their votes. So, I position. We can do that, too. Yeah. Okay. Counter points, please.

So, so I actually, I, I don't want to be exclusively in politically political commentary for the next 20 years. Okay? And I'm sorry. I'm going to go ahead and turn off my camera while I talk just cuz my toddler is refusing to leave the room. So, anyways, the the point being that there I am about political, uh, efficacy in so far as we're trying to figure out how to combine alt media and normal media. Okay? That's what we're trying to figure out how to do. We're also trying to figure out how to get mainstream politics to talk to alt media political people. Okay? And what, what's happening is we're talking about this up joke, and I am here to police the jokes a little bit and I'm bringing it up and Steven's probably the most successful person here and he's like, "Lol, wouldn't it specifically be female style of?" I don't know. Hold on. I actually don't know how you go from the, the Republicans and a lot of people around the Republicans, people who weren't moderate but didn't have like strong leanings either way, I'd say populist mostly. Okay, these people end up getting caught up in the, "We're all protecting kids." Right? We're all protecting kids. We're all protecting kids. And and we're supposed to have Democrats reach out to the guy who jokes about like a 12-year-old getting by her crush. Like, what? Like there, there are just some things that the parties aren't going to be want to be around. You know, even if we gave Eerite the argument that like saying is okay and Democrats should say, I don't know if we should say that Democrats should talk about kids dying and laughing at it and then also talking about asking a father if her 12, if their 12-year-old daughter, their crush or something. I, I don't know if we, these seem different. Okay. They seem very different, very far apart. And I'm telling you, that's the exact kind of thing. It's funny. I'm not going to say it's not funny, but that's the exact kind of thing that I'm, If I, it's weird. Is, is Destiny going on his like Fuentes arc at 40? Is that what's happening? That like he's doing his his like cookies in the oven arc at 40? I think he kind of is, isn't he? Fuentes used to talk about how like, I give people space because I'm willing to say these things that are like bad and edgy and and people find them gross, but actually I'm the tip of the spear. I'm going to like go in. I'm going to enter the room first. I'm the first person to breach the door, to breach the gate. Okay. All right. That's me. I'm getting that done. I'm making space for everybody else. I'll say crazy. And then everybody else behind me will get to say like normal things. It's bizarre. A book with a mainstream person and I say, "Oh, hey, um, you know, I have this guy. He's huge in alt media. He's got tens of thousands of listeners. Uh, he's got millions of post-recorded views. He wants to canvas. He wants to be active. Can we do an interview together?" And then if somebody takes that clip and they blow it up, they're going to be like, "Isn't that the guy who talks about like prepubescent female?" And they're going to say, "No." So, you're right. I do want to police your jokes a little bit. Yeah. But like, Wait, what's the worst part? What's the worst? What's the worst part that would make me unbookable? Do you know what it is? Well, I would say probably your abrasive personality in dramas. No, I would say it's the fact that I'm on the left. You know about abrasive personality dramas? Andrew Tate was like the leading red. This is particularly offensive for Destiny to make this point when he was one of the most like sought-after guests for every right-wing podcast and commentator for like an entire year while he was pretending to be a human being. Okay. Yeah, it's funny that it's funny that Connor said dramas when it's like, uh, actually alleged crimes and all this is whatever, right? But to me, how the does he make this argument? You talked to Ben Shapiro. You talked, you went on Lex Friedman. You were one of Lex, you were Lex Friedman's close personal friend. He wanted you to come and talk to all of the people. They wanted you for everything. You decided to burn it all down and you're bitter and telling yourself that that was always the way it had to go. Like, shut the up, dude. You, you're the exact opposite. You're the only person who can't make this argument. Hillar for two years. And the conservatives point and he was invited into the White House, by the way. And like that's not stopping any of these people from getting invited on shows. Destiny nearly, did Destiny's clearance even get canceled? I actually don't remember. I know Hassan's clearance got canceled for the White House. Destiny almost met Biden. Destiny was right there. He went to Capitol Hill. He did a meeting with Roana. If anything, the problem you're describing, Connor, is that the left needs to be less uptight about who they invite on shows, which by the way, they're pivoting to. I don't know if you've heard like the Washington Post story from today, but they are realizing that yeah, like downing people, overpolicing for this kind of stuff is a waste of time and it's not working. Mhm. And I think the big issue is like people don't like condescension or people, people love condescension. They just like it when it's on their side. People absolutely do. You can see a billion people looking at Trump and everybody else being condescending to their political adversaries. People like it. They direct it at them side. It both sides. But that's not effective in pulling the opposite side. I can't believe nobody called Destiny out for that. Like he didn't do a media tour with Ben Shapiro, Candace Owens, like the Daily, the Daily Wire people. Uh, Lex Friedman. He was on everything. People are trying to get him on Joe Rogan, right? Oh, he's on Tim Pool a bunch. Like everybody, everybody wanted him on the show. The liberal who will actually come and talk to us. That was like the brand. And now he's like rewritten history entirely. Oh, you know what's the hardest part about getting on shows? The fact that I'm a liberal. You got on all of these shows while you were a liberal, idiot, which is what you guys won by pulling the opposite side. The goal shouldn't be how do I appeal to my diametrically opposed political enemies at all points in time. At some point the moderates. It should be how to people that like can go out and vote. How about appeal like to like your own party members that are like these are Democrats that feel demotivated and don't like to actually go out and do anything because our whole party is just living constantly in the criticism of conservatives. Any, no, actually the crimes almost certainly would not have had any effect on his ability to book onto Republican or right-leaning shows. No, not even a little bit. It was that he started going out and like actually saying insane to these people. He started, um, he started talking about how he had to like talk down to all these people, how he's better than them, how they're all completely, how they're all like hack grifter losers, right? He started just going after them. And trust me, some of that stuff might be true, but when he treated them like human beings, he got on their shows. And it had nothing to do with whether or not he'd defend his talking points, right? He could defend his talking points. He just didn't. He for some reason decided there was a connection between him being like acting like a human and not actually standing up for his principles. I don't know why he made this connection, but that was never required ever in his entire life, right? He did not have to totally disconnect. He could go on these shows and he could make his points in a way that wasn't just screaming at them that they were like, "Okay, I'm going to." I was going to connect to the donut operator thing. Screaming at people that they're right, you can, he was able to to talk to these people. He just didn't. He just didn't actually stand up for his points. I'll just point it out. For like the 80th time, Josiah can do this just fine. Josiah can go talk to people and continue to stand on his points. Uh, Luke Beasley went and did it on Tim on Timcast, right? Who never in their lives considered criticism from the left. Stephen, part of why you're effective is because you can do both. And what I'm saying, I'm not a politician, so there's like a double. It's careful. I'm not trying to get elected. So there's like a different type of thing that I'm going to be politicians and that's going to get. You're very effective at getting people politically active. What I'm saying here is that like, I guess to soy pill, right? I understand that your position is not to be mean to people to get them to change their votes. Got it. My criticism to you on the Tally thing specifically is that when you're mean to Tally and when you talk about her in such a smug, condescending, and disregarding way, you're signaling to her and everyone like her that basically you look down at them as subhumans. None of those people. I never use the word subhuman, but I to say it to Soy can't say it to Daddy. Um, that is, do you think so pill, do you think she just sees double Destiny here where she's like, this is the one I can say all my criticisms of Destiny to and then that's Destiny. That's the guy who like makes sure I make money. Can't, can't go after that guy. I do look down on. Ah, that's being a little unfair. I think she does criticize Destiny in this. So that's that's a little unfair. No, and I'm going to be very explicit in public about that. And I think that it's not a lot unfair though. It's not a lot unfair. It's only a tiny bit unfair. Okay. It's the same thing that a lot of people who are disaffected on the left who feel like they don't have people who will go out and say what people like, you know, the same people that say, "Oh, Trump says it like it is." There's a swath of leftists like, "Why are these Democrats being so nice to these people that are my family who are stripping their rights away?" And I'm like, "Hey, you should not be the authority here." That's very different from reaching out to specific voters. And if people clip that, whatever. But we tried being perfect for two elections and they're going to clip everything from the perfect party of like the most like these smug liberals who are going high get clipped. We've never high things. No, stop. Are people are people clipping that soy pill thing? Him talking to Tally and like being like, "Oh, I'll never vote Democrat again." I just can't imagine the stakes are probably not that high. Okay. Democrat. You see an NC do what she's advocating ever? Well, I, I don't know that she's ever advocated for just, you know, totally bending over backwards to accommodate anybody who is kind to her. I don't know if she's ever actually advocated for that. So, maybe not. But never enough in the Clinton era. Oh, hold on. My only question to you is the Tally conversation, is it effective? That's all I'm asking. No, I'm saying no. It was not effective. It happened. Conversation. A TLDDR? Can we summarize it? Yeah, sure. I had, uh, Stardust and Short Fataku or Dev on my show to talk about did Democrats and Tali. It's a wicked and Tali. I co-host a show with her every week and so our guests were Stardust and, um, Dev, and the subject was, did Democrats contribute to the rise of MAGA and how? And we talked about that. Soy Pill ranted and raved in chat and started DMing me saying he wanted it on, he wanted it on, he wanted it on. And so about an hour in, I let him on and he started going after Tally and calling like, "Why are you even here? Why are you on this show? Ty Tally voted for Trump and."

was speaking as some sort of like, what should the Democrats be doing moving forward? When she does not give a [ __ ] about policy, which she admitted multiple times, raised her hand to say she was a vibes-based voter. Uh, like, when questioned about specific things like January 6th, which she acknowledged is bad and knew all the details of before voting, still did not care. So it's like, why waste any time listening to this person for advice? I think so, I could understand why she would think all of that. And then the question I would say is, just if you felt your vote was going to be required for Democrats to win, which way would you have voted? Because it sounds like when she gives the caveat, "Oh, I was in a deep blue state, so I didn't do it." Right. It sounds like the protest vote argument. I don't even know why she'd be brought on as a Trump voter. She's not somebody who needs to be reached. It sounds like she knows all the facts and very easily could have just voted for Democrats if it was required to win the state. So in that case, I just, I actually don't understand what they were even talking about because that's how it's been presented here. And I don't know if that's accurate. I didn't watch the whole debate. I just watched a little bit of it. And two, not shaming this person out of the space for having absolutely nothing. She she specifically said she would have voted for Democrats if it was required in a prior convo. Then then why? What was even the conversation? I don't like where Democrats are going with wokeness. It's just like, is wokeness turning people off? That's the only conversation. It's not about her vote, right? I don't know why I don't know why he got turned into that to contribute. And for multiple conversations on multiple different streams, admittedly being that's very different, but you already, you already, it's not that different because tally percent, it's much closer to a voter, and she's basically one voter. I will I will shout out if you think that tally is like distinctly more stupid than the average voter, I don't know what to tell you. I said that she's a pundit, which is different from talking to someone barely a pundit. She doesn't even have. She's in a public space and I'm yelling at her for that. Kyla, so if I'm talking to M, also, yeah, Crab Navy, also, it sounds like October 7th and the left-wing like anti-semitism arc. Okay. She's just been like scoped by Dan. All right. She's been scoped by that whole thing to think like the left is like broadly massively anti-semitic. That's what it sounds like, right? She's just like, "Oh, I saw Hassan talk about October 7th. I saw Frogan talk about October 7th, and that's why I voted Trump." You're never ever going to change that person's mind if if that's like the level of engagement they have. No, I thought that was a big thing. Okay. All right. If that's what she says, do I have to be nice to him so that I can convince the Republicans? There are some people that deserve scorched earth. The issue is you already said it's not effective. My question, I said that conversation was not an effective one. No. So why are you defending it? Because it's an actual authentic expression of my anger at someone's stupid being position of authority. And I think it's fine to do that every once in a while. It's not I actually poison. I agree. Which is why I said in my opening statement, I don't expect you to be perfect in your advocacy. But if all you have is conservative fatigue and that's why you're taking it out on them again, it's fine. But what I'm not efficacy. Okay. Okay. Wait, I'm just curious. Wait, on the tally, would it be more effective to spend an hour roasting the out of her and getting a bunch of other people to laugh at her? Or would it be more effective to spend an hour trying to convert her to vote differently when she probably won't? I feel like you just make fun of these people. She definitely will vote differently, is my suspicion. She said she wouldn't. She literally said, "I actually don't know if I'd vote for a Democrat." After three different shows, your show, Live and Learn, and this whole time, of course. Of course. She's literally gone on a circus chase of every liberal dude. Everybody makes fun of this, but it is actually real. Okay. Uh, hold on. Is this is will that pop up? Yeah. No, it does just pop up instantly. We've all seen this. We've all seen this comic. It's just this unfortunately this is just true for everybody. Unfort like this is literally just like true for anyone who doesn't deeply engage with like philosophy or politics. This is just broadly totally true. My god, these Trump people are racist. That attitude is what's pushing me to be racist. Say what? Might as well you say I'm you say I'm so fine. I'll be if that makes you happy. It doesn't. Except hold on. I think I think that's not really the the reaction that happens here. But this this does just broadly happen, right? Pull up the I'm not going to do the Greg Gutfield clip again. I can't. I can't. It's too bad. Getting in there on stupid. Yes. Yes. Only I was nice. You're right. I was nice. Did it work? Yeah. When four out of five people are bullying the out of you and one person is nice, why would you be like, "Oh yeah, it turns out actually everybody in this tribe is great." So I goddamn minutes. Shut the up. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. I'm talking. I'm talking. I don't want to hear. My whole point is there are other people like still talking. White man, sit down. Listen. Jesus Christ. So, okay. We love Connor now. We love Connor now. We're big Connor fans now. Okay. W Connor. Anyways, the the whole point of this is that you were like, "Oh, uh, Democrats were so nice over the past 10 years." Where the was that? What the are you talking about? The whole goddamn reaction of the right-wing has been to snide, smug far-left dick bags running media for a decade, running social media for a decade. That's why Elon bought Twitter. Not just that, but in 2016, I wasn't going to vote. I wasn't going to vote for Trump, but I wasn't going to vote for Hillary Clinton either because jihadist terrorist attacks were happening every other goddamn month. And the Democrats were talking about bringing in a quarter of a million new refugees, not just in 2020. I'm not done yet. Thank you. I listened to you for five minutes. You can listen to me for three and a half. So, uh, the other thing is in we have the goddamn summer of love where basically So, what we what we what we have here, okay, is Connor doing his classic, okay, the absolute classic. You guys have been talking about stuff. You've been talking about abstract concepts. What works, what doesn't work. Let me tell you a story. Let me tell you a story about my life and how I feel about stuff via a story. If Connor could speak in abstract terms, he might be like a tolerable debater, but it's actually just always a story. Every single time it's story time. Please stop telling personal stories all the time. I'm brother, like not only did we have the co lockdown, but we also have BLM going on and people saying fiery but mostly peaceful protests. Do you know how often times I see that where Democrats regardless of all the up Trump again? I can this is a little better than usual though. You list all the up parts of Trump better than you can summer of love chaz chop sweeping for jihadists sweeping for BLM is still brought up and that's not good behavior. Uh, yeah, none of that is anything we're talking about in regarding mean comments. If you want, you said you were on your best behavior for a decade and it didn't work. Gaslight me in real time. You fiery but most you were on your best behavior for 10 years. I would say that probably when people were quite against those protests, when people supported Kyle Rittenhouse like standing his ground and and possibly saying not even standing his ground, people supported Kyle Rittenhouse getting off on charges, you were racist as right. There's a big chunk of people, not just leftists, a lot of liberals who thought you were ra you were actually racist, right? You were actually racist. I think that one is probably a good example of like, okay, that's not necessarily being kind for 10 years. Oh, and oh, it didn't work. Like, there was a lot of there was a lot of hate. It just wasn't the totally disconnected from reality hate of like every single blue voter. It's not quite that, right? Years and everything I listed was your best behavior. Calm down. Calm down. No, I won't. Okay, don't tell me that. You're lying to me. Don't lie to me. Okay. Fiery but mostly peaceful. That's Democrats being mean. It's Democrats sweeping for the BLM riots of 2020. It's clear in the entirety of all the We have We have the fiery but mostly peaceful from the one CNN uh or whatever the Chiron, that one thing. Let me ask you something. Hold on. Just just to be clear, we're comparing that to the entire subhuman conservative apparatus claiming that Haitians in the United States were eating cats and dogs, and that message got repeated by the president of the United States of America on a debate, and then it was repeated by the vice president, JD Vance, and he said, "I knew it was a lie, but it gets people talking." And now you want to hold us to some standard of, well, remember when that one CNN during the BLM riots had the thing in the back like that [ __ ] make fun of dead kids? And it's again, it's not quite dead kids. It's stupid. Here's the thing. Here's the thing that Republicans know and fascists know. Okay? You want to target an out group. You want to be racist to an out group. You want to be hateful towards an out group, make it a small out group. Okay? That's how you're successful. Don't apply it broadly to 50% of the country. Do it to a small out group. Hey, the Haitians are eating cats and dogs. That can work for you. Even though it's blatantly racist, even though it's blatantly bigoted, right? Even though I'm not going to talk about Haitians, okay? I don't want to do it. I've heard I've heard many facts about Haitians, okay? But it that's the difference is when they do that, they do it to a very small out group and it tends to work. True. Skip. Yes. Thank you. It doesn't need to be that Dems were holy and perfect and that Republicans are bad. Republicans are way worse than the Dems have ever been. It's just annoying when you guys are being like the Dems have always played it high. 2016 Hillary was not playing it high. It was absolutely one comment that she said was dirty basket of deplorables, right? And they're still holding that over like that. I just want to be clearing. I just want to be clear. It's not just about Thank you, Wick. Oh, the news. The news reporting accurately and smearing. That's your problem. Trump. Yeah, this is this is a mistake. Soy pill, you're making a mistake. Soy pill, you're making a mistake. Does Conor want to speak with his hand up? It's not just about what the politicians say. It's what about your side says, what's about your culture says. And you would be have to have not lived through that time if you thought the Democrats, I'm talking about the people. I'm talking the rank and file treated Republicans or even moderates well. A lot of people disowned their families, right, during that time because they thought they might be voting for Trump, right? They they literally won't talk to their families. They literally excise people from their friend groups. It was a huge issue and it turned off a lot of [ __ ] people. Disagree with this, but the problem is we I guess we can keep we're going to keep conflating these different parts of what is being mean, right? But you're this whole strategizing your family, by the way, is a very mature thing to do if there's crossing a line that you think they shouldn't cross. And I've done it before. And that's very different from, hey, you're an idiot. No one should talk to you. You don't know how to vote, which I agree turned some people off in 2016. I know a lot of people who were turned off from the dems by that. But when I'm talking about they go high, we or we go high, they go hold his wick. I don't know, probably like 45 low. That is a very different strategy. That is, hey, these people are smearing and calling names and like dehumanizing, and we're not going to do that. That is what the Dems have been doing up until about like the weird comments from or maybe like saying, "Oh, will you shut up?" You know, this is what we're talking about. And yeah, you can talk about the populace. Obviously, they're going to be way more, you know, edgy than the politicians, but the politicians of the right are going low every single time, and it is not hurting them. Okay, I have a relevant point. I want to make it before anybody else gets in. Don't put on my leg and tell me it's raining. Okay, Kyle Rittenhouse specifically, I already know that this is a perfect point about Democrats miss. I'm going to unfortunately agree with Connor again here. Very badly in reference to this because Stephen recognizes this point. All the progressives, all the dude, I wouldn't dude, I would not bet. Hold on. I wouldn't bet on He just He just referenced Destiny. I wouldn't even bet on Destiny saying that like No, I've kind of I got to see Rittenhouse differently now. I I wouldn't have I wouldn't have hitched my wagon to that and the mainstream media establishment and the president of the United States and pre-watch. I did not pre-watch. I'm just saying that like I feel like the attitude that led to the Kyle Rittenhouse takes is like largely gone. self ran with the narrative that a 16-year-old kid grabbed an assault rifle and committed a mash against BLM protesters and three black people in Kenosha, Wisconsin. But as soon as you watch the video, it's obviously not true. Now, I don't back you up here. Let me back you up. No, let him finish. Hey, it's the Spartan. Um, so what the counterargument here is going to be, well, but the politicians didn't do that, right? Hey, the politicians like they the worst they did was like maybe fundraise for people's bail or something, but the politicians didn't do it. It was the pundits. We're we're criticizing the politicians. Trump does this. It's always that what aboutism, right? The reason why I respected Steven so much was because he was willing to pursue truth. Political side. I actually stopped respecting Bosch as much because he went exclusively with what was convenient to his political side. So if you guys engaging in that, I will lose respect for you. What did Biden say? Didn't Biden say that he would respect the court's decision on the Rittenhouse case? Yeah, he did. He also retweeted out a video calling him a white supremacist mash. So, well, hold on, hold on, wait, wait. It was like it was implied with the way that the compilation video, but like the stand the fact that you just said that crazy that it matters that the president calls you a white supremacist mash. Obviously, it does. I think that if you're going to obsess over a single video that was oh this is made um that he retweeted on his account and you're gonna claim that like, oh my god, this was so horrible and ignore the 50 trillion insane things that Donald Trump, the guy I was just going to say, you're going to enter like the infinite what aboutism loop here where it's going to be all about Trump, right? And that's fine. But here's the thing, Connor is like a conservative who voted Democrat. So like, it's not even you don't even have a representative here who I think votes Trump, right? Yeah, you don't have a single representative here for that. So I you can do the what is what aboutism on Republicans, but Connor agrees with you. So I don't even know. I don't even president of the United States, the leader of MAGA and the Republican party says daily, that's a standard that we're never going to win. Which is why we make fun of dead kids and everything else because you were never going to appeal to people like you. You'll never you'll always be able to find you'll always be able to find See, now Destiny up. We're never going to appeal to people like you. He he voted for Biden. He like kind of lost a ton of credibility with his conservative peers, right? Rob Noir will not talk to counterpoints without pointing out that he's a paid Democrat chill. You have no morals. You are a complete piece of Right. Rob Nor won't talk to this guy. He won't do it or won't talk to him with any respect. And and like Counterpoints paid a price for that. And now Destiny sitting here on this panel. Counterpoints believed in Destiny, by the way. And and Destiny's now, well, we'll never appeal to people like you. Counterpoint is like, but you did appeal to people. You are we friends? I thought we were I thought we were friends. One person. You'll always be able to find one bad person on Twitter, one bad law, whatever. You can you can see his face change when Destiny goes, "We'll never appeal to people like you." Connor's face visibly changes. Daily, that's a standard that we're never going to win. Which is why we make fun of dead kids and everything else because you were never going to appeal to people like you. It'll never you'll always be able to find you'll always be able to find one person. You'll always be able to find no one bad person on Twitter, one bad lawmaker, whatever. One bad person that says anything. And then meanwhile, Republicans are like rapid firing out posts anything a thing ever. You want to talk about Rittenhouse? What? It's so brave of Destiny to machine gun out points here when the counter example for the point he's making factually is the person he's arguing with. It's literally the person he's arguing with. Right. So, I I it's weird. He's just going to motor mouth out points here. I I can't even really pick up what he's laying down, but it doesn't matter because he literally said, "I'll never appeal to people like you. I can never win people who are conservative and and care about this and they'll never come over." Right? Like, he's already lost the point. He's not saying one person was the president. What? He's saying he'll never win people over who will have this position because or people like Connor because you can't win them over. But you can win Connor over. Connor was won over. About George Floyd. Okay, Stephen, you've gotten lazy in your argumentation. I'm not that guy. I talk about George Floyd. I talk about 90% of my time. He just he just said it was about him. The lost their about you. This isn't about you. This is about This is about This is about the electorate. It's about you. No, it's not about me. It's about the electorate about the electorate. It's about you. What is it about me? I'm voting for people engaged in bad I think is ineffective and counterproductive and I don't like the conversation about the pro to be that everybody on the Republican side can be the most degenerate people they want and they don't it doesn't giving them that permission or license, but it works. No, it doesn't. It's destroying the country. It it works for their party. It works for them to win elections. Then why don't we just start doing why don't we just start doing misin thinking? Misinformation is bad. Yeah. So is like treating other people like they're subhuman. I didn't Isn't that where you have to start at a base level with this conversation? Is like, will we employ if you could just mirror Trump's tactics one to one completely and win? Is that what you want to do? Do you want to mirror his tactics entirely? Do you want to just lie? Do you want to cheat? Do you want to steal whatever you can in order to win? Is that what you want to do? Because if that's what you want to do, then like there really is no other conversation to have here. Zera is coming out as pro-lying. No, she's saying that like you can't just be them. She's she's against it. These two people hang on his every word. Why do they lar like they don't? Well, it's very safe pushback when these two people want to argue with him on here, right? Not condescending to somebody is not a morally horrible thing to do. It's just nobody said it was. Stephen lying. Because I'm what? Because I'm talking about efficacy. When I talk about advocacy for to forsake morality, which the difference between being condescending or telling morality, I thought is that we can actually talk to the other side and engage with them and not go scorched earth all the time. I thought bipart yes, they are more deplorable in every single way. I will just grant this to you every single time. But what I'm talking about what I'm talking about, don't interrupt me, is Connor and God tallies. That's who are people who don't like the right. They think it's despicable. Maybe not tally. Let's just say Connor, who are informed are looking at the left's behavior and also find it deplorable. That's what I'm saying. I'm saying can't we just tweak that? We are already good at policy already because they're not worth appealing to. You're better off energizing your own side. If somebody can sit in an area where they look at one guy and they see him 100 people, and then they look over there like, well, that guy like, uh, you know, he made some rude comments about, you know, some woman's bra or whatever. I So I think these two things like I'm really undecided. You you never even waste time with that person. You just try to appeal to you energize your own side or maybe you find people who are genuinely legitimately in the middle. But if there are people, like I said, I've seen the tally stuff. What if what if there's a vacuum of information somewhere in the middle that's causing those people to like basically not not understand that there's the 500 on the other side and you're losing those voters because they can't see it because you don't even attempt to engage with them, right? That that's I think what probably Connor or Eridite would argue here. That would be the opposite end of this argument. But if this is somebody who's legitimately like undecided on both sides, this person is you don't waste your time with that person. Why would you average is I'm telling you that the average moderate is clip it and you and the Democrats will never win because you just said that we're we're done. Why'd you say it? Actually, I disagree. I believe that democracy works with I actually think that it does. I think it's baked into the system to assume that people are stupid. Okay, but calling out people on your side doesn't help you politically. American politics is right. But also, this is why Kyla, just to be clear, this is why Kyla's position has been incoherent for as long as she does the Hassan's bad stuff on the other side, right? Because it's like she will argue this. She'll argue all these things and and she'll also do the Hassan's bad thing, right? That's the that's the up thing. But you're talking you're saying on one side, Stephen, I love that you can go out and be this person and it reaches out to people. However, because you made this edgy joke or because you cross a line sometimes that's like poison to the thing and it's like, wait, hold on. You're quoting people at events that say they like him. They're Republican. They're conservatives and they still show up despite not liking the thing that he said. Clearly entertain political agreement ever. Great example of why Ethan will win his lawsuit. Everybody thinks Ethan's going to win the lawsuit. That's actually the problem. MJ Skip, I don't know who you think doesn't think Ethan's going to win all of his lawsuits. That that's not the most likely outcome. Literally everybody thinks that. Literally everybody thinks that. If you've been watching content where you think there are people who don't think Ethan's going to win outside of like Hassan's direct group, you are moronic for watching those people. And those people are morons for propagating information nobody believes. Good luck. If you guys agree with me, then why? Well, he's walking away now. Why is Steven right now saying don't reach the abandon? It sounds like you guys disagree with each other as well. I'm saying we have to reach the Yes, the extremists will never reach. I'm not talking about like the embedded mugs who will never move. I'm not talking about those people. By the way, my argument tired. No. So clearly, Kyla, I'm not saying don't reach out to people who are because I do think most people are stupid and we do need to appeal to stupid people. What I'm saying is we are not going to waste energy policing our own side saying, "Hey, there's some unambiguous like we can't really tell you how many people this poling our own side." I'm not trying to cancel. I'm not saying that you guys are bad. Z is bad though. That nobody should support you. I'm saying I'm saying I'm saying you would be more affected. So all of these people this is um a bit of I I think sides going on here, right? Isn't that the easiest argument? Don't you just she did cut him off again. Don't you just make that point like, hey, you are also have been arguing that like Hassan actually shouldn't have he should be jettisoned from the Democratic party. That is like that is actually you policing your own side 100%. Saying that this stream is a great example. Hardly transformative. Oh, okay. All right. Well, I So, YouTube.com what is it? Small talkme is Stardust channel. If you want more transformative content, go ahead, walk your way over to Stardust channel. I think you'll find it more your speed. If we actually held the standards that we say we care about, the right is in large part because they've forgotten to have principles. They don't have them. They don't even begin to anymore. They're getting by the one principle that they held which was around the Epstein files. It's them over. When you hold standards for yourself and then you fail the standards, the people notice the problem the Democrats had is multifaceted. Number I I think you you probably can't say that they're failing on this. I So they they won before they failed the standard and now now Roy Moore, I think I don't think Roy Moore is the best example because I think people didn't really know that much about Roy Moore. I think I think Roy Moore is probably not a great example because the the concretness of the stories there is a little different. The Epstein thing is like what they've been campaigning on. They weren't for years and years and years campaigning on like Roy Moore is a symptom of these people protecting like about the built entire conspiracy around this cabal that runs the country and now they're the chickens are coming home to roost, right? Like I don't think I don't think you come back from that. That's the That's the issue is like the Epstein thing is like a thousand times worse than Roy Moore. And but I also wouldn't argue that they've lost anything yet. Okay, an election hasn't happened. People are mad right now, but people have been mad about stuff in the past in the Republican party and they've coalesced and come back together, right? For a while, they're real mad about January 6th and then they kind of coalesced and came back. I'm not ready to say that Trump is done. I think he's done. I would make that bet, but I am not like willing to go and say, "No, no, no. We definitely know that the Epstein thing is destroying their party." I would be very careful, okay, with that. Hold on real quick. Epste be meme pallet cleanser real quick. Real quick, it's AI slot, but I don't care. I don't care. Total slop. Total AI slop victory. Okay. [Laughter] Total AI slot victory. This is the guy. Is this the guy they killed? That's the guy that got killed by the Clintons, isn't it? Isn't that who that is? Guy who like Is that the guy who got shot twice in the back of the head? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. All right. Cool. I'm sorry. Oh, no. It's Prince Andrew. It's Prince Andrew. Oh, I thought that. No, it's Prince Andrew, obviously. Got it. All right. Link that. I mean, it just got linked to me through chat. You guys can just scroll up and find it. It's like the tweet. Somebody said, "Quick Epstein meme." Number one, we Hold on. I'll answer this evil giant bravo question. And what do we mean by Trump being done? Do you think he's not going to get through the whole term or something? No. I think like probably their electoral outcome is going to be pretty bad. I'm sorry. Trying to uh mitigate the Epstein damage, too. Yeah, we saw that they were planning to release anything from a grand jury or something like that. Pretended to have moral standards that we Sorry, just one more quick correction. Seth Rich was not the guy who got shot back in the in twice in the back of the head. It was a different guy. Different guy who was affiliated with the Clintons, but I don't remember. The problem the Democrats had is multifaceted. Number one, we pretended to have moral standards that we never gave a progressive. Number two, and number two is that the standards that we do have, which are good democratic standards, we are not always upholding to. We need to be more clear about when we're upholding to them. There are some people that we need to know. But I am telling you, Tees and Asmin Golds don't need scorched earth and neither do tallies. Those are not the people. The Matt Wales don't Okay, that I finally thank God I found a place. Okay, I found a place where I disagree. All right, Tekone does deserve Scorch Earth. Okay, Tekone absolutely deserves Scorch Earth. He is a total piece of Okay, absolutely there. Asmin Gold too, but Asmin Gold I think the issue with Asmin Gold is just like not going to work. I think Asmin Gold's like insulated himself from a lot of criticism very very very effectively. It's why I've kind of looped around like maybe he is like a lot smarter than I thought. But dude, Tactone deserves Scorch Earth for sure. So does Noctaku. So do all of these like everybody in that um you know everybody in this Pescoal with these people. Okay. Tectone Asminold. I'm not going to say the name. Knucks. All right. All of those people they all deserve it. Scorched Earth. Winning some people over by by being uptight like we were for 20 years. Like I don't see this. There's literally people in my comment section who stay I would like to interject. Thank you. So, there are people who come into my comment section and they say, "Oh, I really like Steven until X." And you know what X normally is? It's either the past week with the dead girls or it's Cory Compatory. Yeah. Firefighter. What's that? They say you're going to vote Trump now. You guys claim God added that bullet. Okay. So, I'm just laugh at it. Well, and by the way, well, actually, hold on. This brings up a previous point. So, you were saying that like, "Oh, it's just jokes. It's just jokes." And actually, that Soy probably brought it up more than anybody else saying like, "Oh, you're trying to police our jokes. You're trying to police our jokes." Uh, excuse me. Correct me if I'm wrong because this is the malice that most people are identifying is the fact that you and I both genuinely believe that MAGA is a quasi fascist movement that doesn't care about the rule of law, the republic of the United States or its people. Correct. Yes. Conor, he doesn't understand the whole point of the joke. He thinks the point of the joke is like people aren't understanding. No, every everybody here understands, right? See, Asmin Gold acceleration. Okay, we can watch it later. But everybody understands here, you just are the Connor's the only person here who thinks like Destiny's altruistic. Sorry that Connor and Arid are the only two people here who think Destiny's altruistic in any way with why he does this. They think he could be like reached. He can't be reached. He is making money the same way he's made money his entire career by doing this, right? This is like his brand. It's who he is. And there's like nothing. And by the way, you're participating in this. You're like making it better. You are reinforcing the fact that he'll make these edgy jokes and he'll be on panels and he'll get all the views for it and stuff. This is literally all of it, right? This is the whole thing. You don't care that Cory Compatory or whatever his thing name is is wittingly or unwittingly he's effectively supporting fascism. Who's this person? I don't know this person. It's the firefighter. Firefighter shot at the Trump rally in Butler. I care that a person died. I care that right now when Medicaid gets shut down, the red states are going to be hurting the most. It's it's a little bit like, well, you voted for this. Well, no, Porter Beller, he is actually being effective in driving attention to himself. That's like, yeah, exactly. He is being effective. if he's just not interested in being politically effective. But like I care that people are Stephen, do you care that Cory died? You can joke about it. No. Cory, do you care? Uh Steven, do you care that Cory died? I mean, it's bad when people die, but you think it's funny milk over it. I mean, a little bit. Yeah. Okay. Well, yeah, you can make a joke about it and it could be absolutely funny. 100%. Yeah. So, why can't we make a joke about pointing out that there is an underlying denying kind of points? Why can't we make a joke about the October 7th stuff then? That's funny. October 7th. What? Yeah. Okay, there we go. Why are we so about October 7th? Are there people being like, "Oh, because of my stance on Israel, I'm like not going to take as angry a stance on October 7th. It's just jihadist terrorism is going to be the answer." And it's so lazy right when uh came in got all those funny, right? Yeah, you can. I just expect people to be off about it and stop supporting you politically. What was the Wait, what was the go? Do you think someone here is going to say we can't joke about Well, no. No. Wait, hold on. Sorry. Do you think we can make jokes about October 7th? Are you okay with that? I would never make a joke about a prison. That's not my thing. I make I make a Holocaust dude on October 7. Yeah, of course. Obviously. Hold on. Do you think that the people making jokes about it on October 7th uh drew people to their side or pushed them away? Yeah, no. Is there malice? This is relevant. Is there an undercurrent of malice within the joke? Yeah, it was the policy. It's not the fact that people like Assan or whoever the are making jokes about they actually legitimately 100% support. That's a big difference. No, that's why people are off because they actually think that you don't give a when conservatives die because they're the victims of their own policy. It's just like like basically, oh, you're supporting jihadist terrorism. I think if you if you believe that's position, he's just broadly supports jihadist terrorism because it's jihadist terrorism. Like it's just lazy analysis. Oh my god, it's literally doesn't he really thought that God smited those girls for with NordVPN? Seriously? No, they think he just don't care about You don't you you think that they think that they think that you feel there's an underlying malice that you legitimately do not give a [ __ ] about these kids? And I'm pretty sure I heard that you don't give a [ __ ] about these kids. I'm pretty sure you said and he I mean he's he just says it. Yeah, he just says it like what what are we supposed to read in like the what are we why are we pretending that it like matters more when a kid dies or something? Why are we supposed to pretend that we care about that? Kids aren't kids aren't special. Some kids are when you say some kids are like obviously there's an implication. Obviously Connor is yes correct here said you don't give a [ __ ] I just I'm just tired of Bailey Martin Bailey. No one is you're doing it you're doing it over and over again. I am saying being mean loses the middle and then you guys go, you just want us to be nice and not meet mean jokes. No, the way you're being mean in these specific instances is alienating people to your effect like detr this actually say some kids are verbatim. Yes. Some kids are actually they won. We don't even know if Stephen, what's more likely, Stephen? Do you think that Trump won because he was divisive and mean? Or do you think he won because he had eight years of campaigning funding behind him and Carmela had three. What was the campaigning that he was doing? It was being in the eye of the public and how the public by being mean and being divisive. I don't think that a lot of people were like, "Yes, this is why I love him." The issue is that common lit every single incumbent lost. Did every incumbent just lose because their alternative was just mean? Have you been to like these Trump rallies where they're all like, "God, I love how mean he is to Democrats." All these shirts are like, "Yeah, [ __ ] Trump that." And I've been to Democrat rallies where they also love he's being mean to like Democrats and people who talk about him, which fortunately for him is like everybody, right? But I don't think just it's like how do we not understand it? Who's is the closest you can get on Trump? Like maybe the Nancy Pelosi stuff. Is that like the closest you can get? I don't know. What did he say about Nancy Pelosi's husband when when he got, you know, domed with that hammer? What did What did Trump say about that? I actually don't know. But like he Trump understands how to pretend to be a human. Okay. Trump gets that better than most, I think. Love how mean Dean Withers is to Republicans. Yes. partisan hacks love when you're mean to the opposing side. This is obviously that's what we I'm not talking about partisan hacks. You stupid rather I am talking about the middle. I'm talking about if you want to spend your time trying to convince those people who are undecided somehow still, then you can do that. It's just not a very efficient use of time. If you want to talk about who won in 2020, I can't remember who was it. Biden didn't. Wasn't Trump mean like the whole time? Yeah. Oh, was Biden? Was Biden mean too? Did Biden Was Biden mean the disabled guy? Yeah, but wasn't Trump so he's mean to that guy, but that guy is one normal and two, sorry, not normal, one uh like a living adult and two was calling him out. He's like talking back to that person, right? There is a very different thing when somebody calls you out and there's not a single child in Texas who called out Destiny on Twitter that made it like okay for him to respond in like a nuclear way or something, right? Why are we Why are we trying to make this work? Because literally destroyed his entire uh So, do you guys Well, soyel, you actually implied that the reason that he won this year in 2024 doesn't lose. Oh, fell. Yes. Wait, we could just go to like the obvious the obvious clip, right? Oh, thank you. Yes, because he understands how to try to be human. He understands the moment. He understands when he should be sensitive about something. She just died. Wow. I didn't know that. I just You're telling me now for the first time. She led an amazing life. What else can you say? She was an amazing woman. Whether you agreed or not, she was an amazing woman who led an amazing life. I'm actually sad to hear that. I am sad to hear that. Thank you very much. Here's the thing. Don't take me Don't take me pointing this out as evidence that this guy is human, feels human emotion, that he's not a massive narcissist, who is just like who whose entire presidency, his entire history of political activism is a monument to his own ego. Okay, that's who he is. Absolutely. I'm saying he knows how to act human. He knows how to pretend to be human in the moments. Right. We're getting the clip. No, no, no. You've called women you don't like. So, again, uh we can get clips like this, but clips like this are going to be him responding to somebody who criticized him, right? Fat pigs, dogs, slobs, and disgusting animals. Your Twitter account, only Rosie O'Donnell. For the record, it was well beyond Rosie O'Donnell. Yes, I'm sure it was. Your Twitter account has That was Donald Trump at Thursday night's Republican presidential debate. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Now, here's the thing. It shouldn't matter to people that him acting human like totally changes their mind. That that shouldn't be enough to sway them. But it is, right? It just isn't. It's not. You You should act human in certain moments. What did he say after after McCain died? I'm guessing he was negative of McCain, but was a little bit more measured. And then after like a week, two weeks, three weeks, he would have been really a huge piece of he didn't get invited to the to the funeral. I would think I would think maybe he might have known Trump on McCain death. Did he know to like shut the up? Uh Donald Trump comments on Mr. Mlan. Okay, this this could be the one where it's somebody who did criticize him, but they also died. So, let's see. Oh, wait. Hold on. This is allegedly told to his senior staff. So, this is not this is not um this is not him going out in public and saying this. So, I'm probably not in terms of the acting the acting theory going to hold that one against him, but we'll see. Oh, he didn't make a he didn't make a statement on McCain, it looks like. On August 25th, 2018, McCain died due to complications from glyopblastoma, an aggressive form of brain cancer, which McCain had been battling on and off since his diagnosis in July 2017. Many of his close friends, many close friends of McCain cited that he did not want then President Trump attending his funeral, which was scheduled to happen in September 2018. According to a September 2020 article in The Atlantic by Jeffrey Gilberg, following McCain's death in 2018, Trump, according to three sources with direct knowledge of the event, allegedly told senior staff, "We're not going to support that loser's funeral." See, obviously not a good person. Obviously not a human person. He just knows how to act that way. That is that is my broad Trump criticized uh McCain for his thumbs down vote. Sure. Here's the never got a thank you clip after the capital. This would be bad. John McCain campaigned for years to repeal and replace Obamacare for years in Arizona. Great state. I love the people. This 27 2019 this is a what like a full this six seven months after McCain died. I lost the McCain article. I think it's like a full six or seven months after he died. It's like a little different, right? A little different unfortunately. I I wouldn't say he's like not going to make comments. I would say he is. Yeah, I don't know. I think I laid out my thesis quite well for this, but he understands optics. He understands like not off not making himself look like the biggest piece of in those moments. He is a massive piece of by the way. Like a to a massive piece of [ __ ] And the moderate didn't care so much. You have no evidence for that claim. You have no evidence for that claim. What do you mean he won? My point is this is not a thing that's driving away so many people that it loses you elections. That's what I'm reason people win. You have no idea if Wait, but what? Hold on. But what is a big enough point that it drives people away and loses you elections? What is that? Is there is there an issue that you can't win an election while taking a position? pretty much just like are you going to lower the age of consent to 12? That's like the only position or positions in that adjacent sphere. Those are like the only ones. You can win with a ton of different positions. Yes. Both parties trade off on like what their

Most deplorable positions are. If that's even true. You literally said that Trump won. He was divisive. My argument is that it did not make him lose. Steven just said it. I'm just saying that like that there are things you could say you put in your policy, your policy planks, okay, your platform planks that would obviously lose you the election immediately. But like, not when we're arguing like this. This is this is an issue you're arguing. You're saying it like, uh, has an effect, not that it sways the election automatically. It don't get you don't get to run away from this. You guys literally said that him being mean and divisive got eyes on him, which was free campaign money, which is what got him to win. And that the moderate didn't mind it, right? And they enjoyed them being mean to the world. And it is a very popular thing among his base. It is the reason he won. And I'm not saying that. I don't think Stephen's saying it either. Like, here's a really simple question. Let's say that Trump, with his rhetoric. Hold on. Let that go. Let go more with his rhetoric. Would he do better or worse? Uh, I think hard to say. I think potentially better. Pro, probably better, actually. I think the moderates would hate him a lot less. Doesn't he have like one of the lowest ratings of like, he'd win my more if he did that? If he wasn't such a [ __ ] [ __ ], he would win. Massively high rating. He's a massive. Yeah. Among partisan hardcore, right? I'm interested in the moderates in like the 30%, right? So, yeah, of course, the Republicans like him because he's getting sick dunks on the left. And I think that that's, I think he would have way more popularity if he was less divisive and nasty. And not just that, there's clear evidence for this in the primary.

No, I was talking. Thank you. Appreciate you. Love you. Listen to you for 10 minutes. So, we have all the right-wing centrists or whatever, which, by the way, okay, soy pill is not getting that much time to talk. And they're like, kind of repeatedly cutting him off, not letting him talk at all. And being like, "You talked for a long time. He hasn't talked in like 30 minutes now." Steven, you said no centrist exists. It was me that you were describing that doesn't exist. But we have Constantine Kissen. We got his schlubby glasses person. We have Lex Freedman. We have uh Joe Rogan. We have all these people left five years ago, including Andrew Schultz and everybody on his podcast. And what did they do? They used Trump as a Rorschach test. They read in what they wanted to see because the left them off while not paying attention to what Trump said at all. And then they voted right in the last election. So why did them question? Yes, I understand you. Why did the left them off and not the right? What? Why did the left them off but the right didn't, when the right is so aggressive on men who want to tell edgy jokes about lies but not about kids? They want to tell men who want to tell edgy jokes. Minorities, not it's almost like nobody's arguing about edgy jokes. Congrats, you've arrived. We're an hour in. Finally, I've accepted I. Is it? I mean, if you just want to do political effectiveness, it should just be like a road analysis on like, what issues do your does your party care about? What issues does the other party care about? Who are you upsetting? Who are you like pulling in? Unfortunately, when you're making kids about, or sorry, when you're making jokes about kids' consumption, or kids getting, right, like jokes about children. There's not a lot of people who are going to go, "Yeah, actually, I'm way in for those. I love those." There's just not a lot of people who do that, especially amongst normies. Okay. That's like not a, that's not a high proclivity joke you're making. It's so surprising. Nobody likes. I know it's shocking. It's so shocking. No, a lot of normal people aren't going to be like, "Oh, that's awesome." I don't know. Trying to police his jokes in charge while I have to use my counterpoint. Connor just admitted that these people who have these million like people audiences who Kamala did not go on, and that is a big criticism of what she should have done, is are people that want to be edgy, that want to be authentic, that don't want to be policed. And these people are now like, young voters are swinging towards Trump. So somehow how this is not a way that we should go. We should not be more like these podcast hosts who are like appealing to the everyman, the more authentic people. We shouldn't do that. No. What I'm saying is this joke, kind of like Kyla said, was more offensive than it was funny. So, it was a bad joke. And by the way, you actually Stephen made content about this where he's like, "Isn't TTO the edgy guy? Isn't Asmin Gold the edgy guy? Don't they love on Mexicans getting deported?" It's Yeah, it's essentially who are you offending with that? Yeah, it's just a, it's just a simple analysis. You just go and you do like the, the actual analysis of, well, who, who are the people I'm trying to appeal to? Am I appealing to them? And what am I doing in terms of like, when people, you know, use my clips to lobby against me to say I'm the worst, who am I helping? It's pretty simple.

Uh, hold on. Is this guy going to join the stream? Give me a second. I uh, we might have the 10-minute block on or something. We'll see. Don't they love all this? Yeah, they do. They're hypocrites. But just because they're hypocrites and they're stupid doesn't mean that you don't have to appeal to them. But it does, because I can look at how do they grow their audiences? Who's the most popular political stream in the world right now? It's Asmin Gold. Where are all of these people think you gained by asking or making fun of like dead kids? How many people do you think you gain? How did Asmold get his audience? I, I would say most of the people following him probably picked him up from the Johnny Depp trial. Was that not his biggest growth period? When you asked if a father of a 12-year-old if his daughter had, how many people follow? Did Aspen go get his audience? But like, yeah. Oh, hold on. Oh, Connor just asked about the this one. Connor just asked about this one. When you ask if a father of a 12-year-old if his daughter had sex, how many people did Asmin Gold asking about just total? What about him? Oh, I don't want to answer that. Oh, that's a grenade. Oh, boy. Uh-oh. Uh-oh. Don't answer that one. Um, how many people did Asmin Gold get joking about? Oh, wait. I can't point out anytime Asmin Gold jokes about kids. Oh, cool. Asold explicitly like hates that. Yeah. Okay. Oh, well. Um, well, what about um, well, what about um, um, what about um dressing up as a Pokemon trainer to go to catch illegal immigrants or laughing about alligator Alcatraz or people hate Mexicans? Most people don't hate kids. Yeah. Okay. So, then the issue has nothing to do with, I guess, edgy. Oh, Destiny actually jumped into this on a topic that he's like totally on and he has no idea how to argue this, right? Like, oh, bro, maybe this is what happens when you take so much time off of like directly debating people. Maybe this is what happens. Jokes, whatever, just targeting it better, I guess. I, yeah. Oh, well, that would be my argument is that edgy jokes are totally fine. In Yeah, that was literally the argument the entire time. Oh, so he just made it incredibly obvious that he was not listening. That's Yes, that's been the argument like the entire time. Yes, you did this at the wrong time with the wrong group of people. You look insane. In the case of these edgy jokes, your timing made them more offensive than they were funny. So you, wait, then yours is edgy jokes. You can't say I would prefer at a later point in time. I, I also think that she has to bite that bullet. Okay, I'll take the side of that one. It seems like you can't just say you should do this and then go, but I'm not saying you can't make edgy jokes. You are saying you can't make make edgy jokes in certain circumstances. It is wrong to make edgy jokes in certain circumstances. You can't say your problem isn't edgy jokes. It's a subset of edgy jokes. You have to bite that bullet right now. That makes it not an edgy joke anymore. That's the whole point. No. No. I think making fun of is always an edgy joke. Okay. So then what then the time that you just said was completely irrelevant. You just don't ever want people to make fun of dead kids. I also, no, I literally didn't say that. Do you want me to restate it? You just said it was too close to the event, essentially. That's kind of what you're going for. It made it. No, the answer is that he's not trying to be politically effective, Nick. He's trying to grow his audience and he's trying to appeal to, he's trying to basically filter people in to his audience who think like it's funny to make those kind of jokes that upset everybody. So, he's he's setting a thing. He is his goal is to be effective for himself, to build audience. His goal is to be effective to build audience for himself, and that he doesn't care about, like the political movements he represents broadly. Probably more offensive to people in the case of this edgy joke that he made because it was so close to the event and it was quote-tweeting people actively looking for the kids. People found it more offensive than they found it funny, which is why it didn't hit either way. I do think it's ineffective in this case. I don't give a. I'll go ahead and stand on business that as a 40-year-old man, you shouldn't talk about 12-year-olds jerking off. That that that's my perspective. How is, how does he respond to that without? I don't know how you respond to that. Oh, no, I know he's got to make a joke. He's got to joke into it, right? He'll lean into it. That's like the thing he can't resist doing. He's, he's going to make. He has to, right? And it's going to look. Which way is he going to go? I actually don't know. I feel like he shouldn't, but I feel like he almost has to. He'll almost be compelled to to do something here. It's like, well, what about this kind of 12-year-old? What are 13-year-olds okay? Right. Eating dogs. You shouldn't talk about deporting. We shouldn't have lied about people getting. Oh, what about is not answering for his conduct whatsoever. What about ism lazy killed femopen? What are you interested in growing the biggest audience? If Connor, if Connor wasn't totally right now, he would do the pisco press and say, "Is it okay? Do you think it's good for 40-year-old men to talk about 12-year-olds jerking off?" Yes or no, Destiny. He would just continue to cycle on that until Destiny gave him an answer because he's just doing whataboutism and then they just back off and let him go, right? Answer. Being a politically effective pundant, which one matters to you more? Yeah, it's a combination of the two. Sure, but which one would you prioritize more? I don't. Sorry, hold on. Hold on. We shouldn't talk about. We shouldn't lie about people getting dying female. What are you interested in? Growing the biggest audience or being a politically effective pundant? Oh. Oh my god. Oh my god. She She's tracking the conversation. I Whoa. Oh, what? What did she just ask? A what? Which one matters to you more? No, it's a combination of the two. Mutually exclusive. Sure, but which one would you prioritize more? Well, what do you think he says? It's a combination of the two. What do you prioritize more? Um, I think he'll say, I think I, if he's being honest, he has to say audience. The sad thing is he's got a cult, so it won't matter, right? He could say whatever he wants for his audience. The people he filters in, they're they're already coming in on like, that guy made a joke about a 12-year-old about a the father of a 12-year-old whether or not that 12-year-old had that day when he's telling a story, right? That's that guy's awesome. As soon as you think that like it doesn't matter what Desty says here, right? This this isn't your filter. You've already gone through a different kind of filter at that point. I don't know at this point in time right now. But I mean, hold on. By the most, I, by the way, that totally shatters the entire pretext of Kyla and Connor sticking by this guy, right? That he will put the movement first, that he will be politically effective, that he will help people. That entirely shatters it. Neither of them will be able to confront that at all. They will not have any change in how they act or what they do for the next 6 months because they're incapable. They're set in their ways. They're set on their course. Right? That should affect that should shatter how they think about him because it shatters how they talk about him to other people. When they defend him to other people, when Connor defends him to other people, he says, "Oh, this guy's like really politically effective. I know that we can we can win with this guy. He's going to he's going to he's good for the movement." This is my exact precise criticism and why I think Pisco is a better replacement. I think Pisco is like, "No, no, no. We're politically effective over everything. We're politically effective over everything. If we can't grow an audience while putting the political movement first, then we won't grow an audience." He is an ideologue, but he is willing to put the the movement first. That's why he's a way better choice if you want to watch somebody. Most politically effective pundits, the people that are like doing the inclusive to all people or the people that are engaging in like the most derisive and the most like condescending rhetoric. I don't think that Asmin Gold is engaging in the most derisive and condescending rhetoric. No, I think like the strongest that we have, he's he's just like objectively not. He always does these little hedges and dumb. Asmin Gold barely speaks. Barely. He's just not. He's being nasty, but it's somewhere with in between, right? How does DG hear him say this and not immediately realize he's a fraud? Um, because they they literally just want to hear like the edgy jokes. That's what they're there for, right? They're just there for Ethan Ralph with like a little bit of intellectualism, but they some of them don't want to admit it to themselves. Others know they just want Ethan Ralph. Asmin Gold, for example, has some level of like being reasonable, being like, "Man, it's really when conservatives do this. Not dress up like a Pokemon trainer to catch illegal immigrants. Is that not? No, he said he would want to. I don't believe he actually dressed up as Ash Ketchum or something. Why? Really? The Muslim jokes and then he walked back the Muslim jokes because he every or not even a Muslim joke. He made the spicy Muslim statement and then he walked it back immediately because he knew he pissed off a bunch of people because he didn't walk it back. He walked back. He got banned for a week. That was a different. That was a different. He did not walk. Dude, was was Aspen Gold not going to be able to eat if he didn't get unbanned there or if he didn't have? I'm pretty sure he just walked it back because optically I, in fact, I think he walked it back almost entirely because the guy who founded OTK with him, who's like the manager, the general manager of OTK, is a Muslim person who lived in America when 9/11 happened. And that guy recounted his entire story on Twitter and was like, "This is actually really that Asmin Gold make this comment." I feel like that's a huge part of why he actually felt bad, why he actually wanted to say, "I apologize for this." Oh, some people actually have feelings, Stephen. He can actually feel some level of control. Do you think Asmin Gold feels bad about offending Palestinians? Maybe. No, I don't. I think Asmin Gold here, I'll be super straight. I think about growing his audience. I think the most important thing to Asminold is growing his audience. Fundamentally, As gold just Asold, by the way, that's just one of those moments where As gold went, "Oh, I did say that." Like they kind of deserve. Oh, I kind of up. And he walked it back. He's like, "Oh, that was bad." And he did a whole thing where he did like an image rehab thing, right? Where he was like, "Oh, I'm going to actually clean my house. This was so bad that the house that's been absolutely disgusting, decrepit, putrid for years and years and years. Okay, I'm cleaning that house now." That's how much he realized he up and was like, "Oh, I have to appear human again. I will go so far. I will clean my house. I will clean my house now." However, some things I've noticed him say over and over and over again. For example, is he constantly tells his audience to not be racist. Now, I would put to him and say, "The little hypocritical to go dress up like a Pokemon trainer and chase around illegal immigrants while also saying don't be racist feels like this is going to lead to the same thing." I'd be right with you on the hypocrisy of Asmin Gold. However, he's also doing things like when people were covering like the super fat chick that was talking about men's issues, he like told his audience like I think five or six times to stop mocking her weight. He didn't even clean it when Emmy revisited to have stakes with him. So, that was huge. Men's issues. He like told his audience like I think five or six times to stop mocking her weight and that this isn't anything about her like beauty or looks and that they should only talk about ideas, right? So, I'm not saying that Asmin Gold is this perfect arbiter of what we should be like. What I'm saying is he's a pretty good example of middle. He's a pretty good example of it. Somebody who doesn't know what the he's talking about. He's just kind of like jumping on waves that will make him popular. And the question to me is, will Asmin Gold ever talk to you now that you've gone scorched earth with him? Wouldn't talk to me before I went scorched earth with him. So, what about Tee? Um, I have Teone who is literally booked onto your podcast, right? Technone who was literally supposed to come to the podcast before you'd gone. Which was it? The firefighter one that got the Techone cancellation? I forget. No idea. Probably not as well. Didn't we literally try to schedule something with him and he bailed? No, he he first of all, he bailed. Oh, evil Johnny Bravo. Yes, he did. So, real quick, yeah, he did bail. He did bail because of, I can't remember which one it was. It was the firefighter thing. We'll see. I, I'll figure it out shortly. Um, but Evil Giant Bravo says, "Do you remember the recent clip where he said he was he had something else driving him to make that apology? What did he actually say to confirm that he acted like it wasn't sincere even when he did it?" No, he acted like it was sincere when he did it. I thought he was very sincere when he did it, actually. That like he, dude, he was totally sincere. Sorry. He totally sounded like he could be sincere. I don't believe he was sincere necessarily, but he totally sounded like he could have been sincere. Like he has plausible deniability on being sincere there. Um, but yeah, now he makes it sound like he was forced to give that apology. I still think there would be parts of that apology he wouldn't take back. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know. I know. I know. But he's he's probably saying that there were forces that pushed him to do that that he wasn't happy about. I have no idea. Probably not as well. Didn't we literally try to schedule something with him and he bailed? No, he he first of all, he bails all the time because ADHD. Okay, so that answer is no. So, no, he has been absolutely. Don't. He's just a. He's just a little boy with ADHD. Don't blame him for being like unreliable. Completely unreliable. He's just a little boy with ADHD. He's just a boy. He's just a boy. Okay. He's a. He's just a boy. Willing to come on your show. Up until the point, unironically, he cancelled the show on me. Thanks, by the way, because of the that you said about him. He's been on the entire time. He was willing to come on the show and kept either missing flights or saying he didn't want to travel to Florida or just didn't do it. So, no, I don't buy that for a second. Okay, that's really handy. It's Wait, did that guy who joined the Discord, did that guy leave? I literally added him and said, "Come in 10 minutes to be here." Sorry, I was I was looking at the show up until the point unironically, he canceled the show on me. Thanks, by the way, because of the that you said about him. He's been on days. Cancelled the show on me because of the you said about him. Wait, when was that? Oh, boy. Oh, boy. Oh, man. Tire. There's like something weird here going on. I don't know what the business partner thing is. There's I You guys might not know there's another there's another clip from the TikTok stuff where she says her and Destiny are still business partners 50/50 on something. I don't know. Is that not bridges? Did he just like Was he just like, please, I'll like I'll support you, just let me stop doing bridges. I just can't do bridges anymore. Just anything to stop bridges, please, for the love of God. He was willing to come on the show and kept either missing flights or saying he didn't want to travel to Florida or just didn't do it. So no, I don't buy that for a second. Okay, that's really handy. It's really handy for you. Well, what was he planning on coming on supposedly like months and months earlier, but never managed to make his way down or had to cancel? Was he planning to come on for a long time and he is a flake, but that doesn't mean that he's not willing to talk to you. And I have a feeling that if I messaged him and we had some level of rapport and asked if he'd be willing to talk to you pre all this like you mocking him for his dad, he probably would have said yes. I'm actually going to back up there. He talked to Chud Logic. Heudic logic. If I have to play nice with Did he talk? I think he talked to Chud Logic after Chudlo Logic made fun of him crying over his childhood rape, by the way. So I actually, I don't know. Was that it before or after? I think it was I think it was after. I don't know if he saw the whole thing though. To weaponize their dad's veteran military service. You are. I. You keep trying. I'm not going to say don't say any certain jokes. Stop. Stop. I'm asking you to be nice in the right ways and mean in legitimately. I think I think the kid comments and like a lot of the other stuff going around but with Destiny is why Te wouldn't talk to him. They could argue it's because he's politically effective or something. I don't think so. The right ways. I think when you are mean to certain people is absolutely effective. When you humiliate people who have extreme beliefs that nobody would get on board for. For example, when that like Endur guy got mocked by Molina, that was super effective. We were super mean to him and it destroyed his career because nobody thinks you should endure abuse. It's a insane thing to say, right? Oh, that's probably a good example. There's like certain things that you just can't really, you like nobody's ever going to come out if if it's not attached to you as that big personality. Nobody's ever going to come out and go like, "Yeah, w dunk on those drown kids." Nobody's going to do that, right? Nobody. Nobody's going to come out and say, "Yeah, yeah, women should endure domestic abuse actually, right?" They actually should do that. No, nobody's coming out for those things in a vacuum. They'll only come out for it, um, when you are a personality or you can only say those as a personality. And I think that's the big thing is nobody's coming out for those two takes in a vacuum. That is an interesting one. It's kind of congressman, national leader, destiny would vote for. Oh, it's fine. I'm not going to click on that right now. Anyway, same on the Republican side. Why isn't the Sander the same on the Republican side? Because they're awful people and to be clear, ineffective. Wait, do you think it's ineffective doing evil? Do you think that that is hurting their political? Wait, does Destiny not think most of most of MLDD's audience would have been Republicans? Uh, when his audience, when his career got destroyed as an influencer, it's probably because mostly Republicans walked away from him. Well, effective when they're mean to everybody. Yes. Yes. Now they're getting hoisted by their owned by their. Okay, so you can say this, but just to follow. A great example of this is the obsession with Leah Thomas. They obsessed over this swimmer girl forever who I don't remember her. Maybe she was a huge piece of, maybe she was making fun of dead kids and I just missed it. They made fun of her so hard that not only did they get all this trans rolled back and they made fun of her so hard. I actually think they more made fun of like progressives who were saying that no, no, like women should be able to part sorry, men should be able to participate by their by them misgendering men should be able to participate women's sports. I don't think there were like, I didn't see a lot of like mocking of Leah Thomas as like a terrible human being. Maybe there was, but even then, that's like an adult you're making fun of for, I guess, decisions as a, I don't even know. I, I actually don't even know what his point is here. What? How are you? And but it just betrays this total lack of humanity where he doesn't understand how Leah Thomas and his comments about the Texas dead kids are similar. He, or sorry, are dissimilar. He doesn't understand the difference. He can't see it. Or I mean, maybe he's just totally malicious and lying here, but I, I think he like actually can't see it. He just doesn't understand. He, he can't see it. He's like, "No, those those dead kids are just like when, uh, when this trans person said Leah Thomas still looks like a man, right? Just when this Republican said it by Leah Thomas. No, Leah Thomas' actual behavior plus progressives belief structure is what was mocked." Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. In all these places. So, they actually have like new laws passed because of it. They managed to get her awards revoked at her school. So, like, where is the ineffectiveness of their messaging here? It seems like all of these groups, all of these groups that you were talking about, for example, Leah Thomas, people are worried genuinely, and I think you are genuinely worried about this is destroying fair play in sports. Leah Thomas is absolutely a person that I, dude, he is, he's so lost in the sauce that he's getting obliterated by counterpoints in erodite. I, this is shocking. I, like. And by the way, I probably, I, I don't know. I don't even know what to think here. Why is he, why is he doing this? Is this? I, dude, I don't even. Yeah, he was anti Leah Thomas, right? Like, like that is another good point. I, dude, I hesitate to say it. I, there's Trust me, I made sure my in between this when I had to walk away, I had to check cuz Aerodites made like three or four good points. I had to make sure my carbon monoxide detector was on. I went and tested it. It's working. I am not hallucinating. This is happening over and over again. And like, what, what is destiny? What, what happened to the guy who would like win all of these debates that we are under question about whether or not fair play is happening? He's just making the worst, the worst argument to policy. I don't know why you're talking about policy right now. I'm talking about rhetoric. Sure, sure. Can I tell you in case of all this rhetoric, you can't shame 50% of the population? Not because it's bad to, but because it's ineffective. Now, to be clear, the reason that they're effective in shaming these groups is because they are smaller populations. Does that make it evil? Yes, I disagree with them shaming trans people, which is why I fight with them about it all the time. However, the reason why they can do it and get away with it and not necessarily lose everyone is because they're not shaming 50% of the population. If you shamed 51% of the population who voted for Trump, unfortunately, even if you are right to, and I think you are, I don't think it's wrong to feel that need to be excised and won the election. What are you talking about? I'm not done. Okay. Well, keep saying something wrong. She's not done. God, you're so impossible to talk to sometimes, dude. Okay. Okay. Okay. Soy is funny. Soy has a point. Soy has been out of this conversation for the past like 45 minutes. This guy does not get to speak at all. Not even a little bit. It's actually up that they're like talking him for just wanting to talk a little bit. Uh, sorry, you're making me. Okay, cool. Cool. So, Trump said that Democrats are Republicans are saying that Democrats are pests that need to be excised from the like, and they won. Like, this clearly is not like, oh, well, it's because of the small group that it worked. No, it worked. So, they demonize Demonrats. It works when they demonize every minority. It works when they Excuse me. Demon rats. They didn't win over divisive rhetoric. Actually, they did. He oock. I would argue I would argue I know you're smart. Get a kick. Prove that it worked. No, it works when they demonize Demonrats. It works when they demonize every minority. It works when they literally all these people went over divisive rhetoric. Actually, they did. He oo I would argue. Oh, you got to pick. Which one is it? You got to pick. I would argue this advertising eight years of advertising and Kla had three months and are in brother brother or sister, sorry, aerodite here, sister, let the guy speak and make like what argument holy fell into dementia, unfortunately. I'm not disagree with you if you listen to me earlier too, you'd know I'd said this is not the reason, but Steven and I's point is that this clearly is not such a poison thing that it's alienating everyone. If he can talk about more than half the country about like this and still win. Okay. What I would that, by the way, just so we're all clear, that is a nonsense statement. Well, it's not so bad that you can't win if you, you, the only purpose here is the only purpose here is making like a dispassionate analysis of like who you're offending and and trying to understand like why you should or shouldn't make statements saying, "Well, it's not so bad that you couldn't win." Dude. Oh, Trump won with something that was like trying to ban all Muslims. There are a bunch of policies you can win with that are like bad. We would a lot of people would say are bad. Yeah, I know. I said porpus. Okay, I know. I know. I know. I was thinking of the normal McDonald joke. Okay, but there's a there's a lot of things you can't just say, well, it's not so bad that you can't win being mean. It's like, yeah, I Nobody thinks it is. We all We all agree Trump won. We all agree with like the reality of Trump winning. It's about how effective it can be for us. How effective are these kinds of jokes? Is this kind of rhetoric for us? The argument is not very welcome to the conversation. That's where the conversation is. How effective is this kind of rhetoric? It's not something saying you can't win if you do this rhetoric. It's not saying you can't win if you're mean. It's saying how effective is it for Destiny to ask a father of a 12-year-old girl if she had that day when he's telling a story. How politically effective is that? The answer is soy pill. Why don't you give me your answer on how effective that is? Is that effective? Is that an effective? Is that effective? This is just the question. Sorry. Right. I It's such a nonsense nothing statement to just say, well, you can win if you do it, so why shouldn't we do it? Like to say I would like to say I've waited patiently. Thank you. Appreciate you. Love you. Uh anyways, so what I would like to say is that the you asked for an example where Republicans are actually suffering for their rhetoric and what I would cite to you is it took a decade but what he said don't say Epstein. No, I will. I 100% will. [ __ ] you. Why would there's nothing I just I wouldn't try to say Epstein in this case because in my opinion, you don't know that the Epstein thing is really going to follow through and crush these people yet. It's just not obvious yet. It might it might come out to be like, "Oh, yeah. No, it's definitely gonna [ __ ] these people up." But I just don't think so. No, it has nothing to do with. Sorry. I don't think I don't think you know that. And it's just weird to make that argument on like, "Well, people are really mad about Epstein right now. People are really mad about January 6th for a little bit and then they changed their minds on the most irrelevant in the world." Oh my god. Shut up. Shut up. I'm sick of your. All right. So, they primed people to think that LGBTQIA are groomers. They primed them to think that every gay person was a. They talked about how the demon rats, do you know how where I heard demon rats? Demon rats are and they're trying to groom your kids. They're trying to your kids and they're trying to make them trans and all that kind of stuff. So they did a decade of propaganda about how are the most unique evil on the Oh [ __ ] Conor Red critical theory. Let's go. The planet and then Donald Trump tries to sweep the Epstein files and it finally cracks the base. Finally, there's something that they were primed in order to hate so much that even when their cult leader told them, "Hey, change your tune on a dime." I hate to I hate to just do everything I shouldn't do here and like validate Destiny's worldview on on at least civility politics a little bit, but it's like, dude, if this doesn't break that base, okay, if he actually doesn't produce anything valid here, almost either way, if this doesn't really like break that base in a major way, like it's at what point are we like done trying to talk to these like there's no talking that's left to be done, okay? These people got to be taken care of. There's just no there's no there's no solution that requires or can be done to persuade these people. We're past persuading at that point, right? If it can't be this one, it's over. Okay. 180 degrees. Half the base said you, we're not changing. The reason to my argument that you're not going to use it as an example. Reason. The reason it's a bad example is because what you just described was decades of demonizing people, being incredibly mean, and taking all these marginalized groups and just absolutely disparaging them and it working. And then the thing that's breaking is that he's now lying and saying, "Actually, I never cared about that. Also, Epstein's not a big deal." Not that he stopped me. Why would you want to volunteer? Hold on. So, do you think it was evil that they vilified gay people and trans people and other groups in order to be for a decade? Was that good or bad? Obviously, that was bad. And I'm not wait. When you say good or bad, good or bad. It was effective. It worked, didn't it? How many time I bet even you were probably saying bad? I'm making a moral judgment. Were you one of those people that were saying the pedophile arguments required like, um, required some work on the Democrat side? Unfortunately, required like a lot of the progressive people pushing the trans policy that most people, if you believe Kyla, if you believe, um, well, it's weird because Destiny argued for a lot of that at the time. Like, I think Destiny was very defensive of puberty blockers for a while. No, uh, so it, it was getting pushed and like, I think that's the thing that kind of kind of lets that whole cabal thing take over. Tons of conspiratorial thinking too. But Trump campaigned on Epste's plane and he still won. You wish Maxwell, Max Maxwell, well while she was in prison. Uh, so these are different than being, uh, being named in those documents. It's different than that letter that came out today that implied a close personal friendship because Trump can be weird about like saying he doesn't want to disavow people in other ways, but this one, the letter that came out today or possibly a day and a half ago, there were rumors of it swirling. That's that's like bad. I hope I hope because like at that point, if that's not bad, if that's not getting on the on the like path towards like Trump can't be redeemed anymore, then like humanity is kind of doomed in a lot of ways. Like I'm not confident that humanity can like come back and make democracy work at that point. If if that glaring a hypocrisy cannot change people's mind, then I think nothing can and I think it's like, it's broadly over in so many ways. It really is. I haven't even thought about that that if it like doesn't work, what does that mean? It means some really bad things. So, I, I go down some like really doomer paths, but it's fine. Uh, let me back this up. I'm going to use the bathroom and get some water real quick. Two seconds. In trans people and other groups in order to be for a decade, was that good or bad? Obviously, that was bad. And I'm not wait. When you say good or bad, good or bad. It was effective. It worked, didn't it? How many time I bet even you were probably saying bad? I'm making a moral judgment. Were you one of those people that were saying the most effective ad was saying that Donald Trump is going to be president for us and Kla Harris going to be president for they them? Like this is all hateful rhetoric that seemed to have been pretty effective. No. Yes. The issue is until they got pushed by their own. Do you want me to watch you guys go charging down the wrong direction for a decade and then have somebody grab your underwear and give you a wedgie so hard that it goes through your ass and rips your body? Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Before he goes down there, do we broadly agree? I actually want to poll this in chat. Hold on. I'm gonna do a poll. Do we think that's hateful rhetoric? Camala is the president for they them. We think that's hateful rhetoric. Uh, poll is Camala being a president for they them hateful rhetoric. I'm just going to do yes, no. Uh, and then I'm going to go to the bathroom really quickly. But I, I'm actually curious if you guys. Do you guys think so? I feel like my gut reaction is no. But then like, it's anti-LGBT clearly, yes, but like hateful because while it's anti-LGBT, uh, anti-LGBT, okay, it is referencing like the child, the the the child gender science policies, right? That I believe that is probably what it's referencing in a lot of ways. It's like dog whistling and racist, too. Maybe even like 50/50. Not even really dog whistling. Not racist, by the way, transphobes. But it's dog whistling and bigots. Whatever. Direct messaging to bigots. I don't know. I, I don't know if I'd call it hateful. It's like, but yeah, I just, I want I don't even want you to think about it. Just Just vote in the poll. Just gut check it. Um, cuz to me, I'd say like no. But I could probably be argued either way. I, I probably I think I, yeah, be argued either way. When you say good or bad, good or bad. It was effective. It worked, didn't it? How many time I bet even you probably show that I'm making a moral judgment. Were you one of those people that were saying the most effective ad was saying that Donald Trump's going to be president for us and Kla Harris be president for they them? Like this is all hateful rhetoric that seemed to have been pretty effective. No. Yes. The issue the question is they got pushed by their own. Do you want me to watch you guys go charging down the wrong direction for a decade and then have somebody grab your underwear and give you a wedgie so hard that it goes through your ass and rips your body in half? Because if you walk away, if I can steal a Supreme Court justice seat, if I can have both halves of Congress, and if I can have a authoritarian leftist president for eight years, they Yeah, sure. I'll take a wedgie at the end of all of that. Okay, let me just [ __ ] affirmative action. Like, what do you mean? Yeah. No, you think the Republicans are like, man, we sureed, we sureed, right? I will just be your pig. Wasn't Destiny 4 affirmative action? $3. I'm surprised they haven't started calling them theocrats. Okay. Democrats. Democrats is what it was supposed to be. Oh, we're pretty split on that being hateful necessarily. Like I, I can see both sides of that really, really, really easily, right? Oh, migrant prisoners transitioning. Yeah, sure. I could Dude, I could see either side of this to be honest. No, no, no, no. I like I'm legitimately not even joking. I could see either side of it. Um, wasn't Destie on the side of affirmative action getting overturned because of how it was up universities? I thought Destiny was on that side. Why is he saying we lost affirmative action? I thought that was like he was literally on that side of the. Now real bad because of this whole Epste, man. We lost everything. No, no, no, no. This is 100% the crux of the issue. Arrodite and I care about people having souls in truth and all. I build a moderator. I build a moderator. Are we going to talk about political effectiveness or what morally right? You win. Who gives a solen? He can easily just solve this by saying political effectiveness is tied to to your morals. Yeah. Morality go either way. That could go either way. Which is why which is why the group that only had like one or two principles because most people, by the way, when asked about the terrorists before the election, were like, well, Trump's probably lying about that. Explain the non-hateful connotation. Like you could be arguing that they're for like trans policies. I, I agree, you, you know, it's like punchy, but it's one of those things that you can mail it into being like, no, no, no, we don't mean that and explain it after. Right. I'd say maybe on its face, you could call it hateful because it is clearly targeting like, you know, trans people, but I don't know. I don't know. Tehei, right? Which is actually a number of things that moved a bunch of Trumpers off of him when they're like, "Oh, did it really move anybody though?" Like, I don't I don't know anybody. One of my close friends who voted for Trump is moved. I'm sorry. I don't know what to tell you. One of my close friends who voted for Trump was moved as a result of that and him betraying his own court. In your own words, most people are stupid and you're smart enough to have smart friends who can be moved on things like explaining policy. Sure, I agree that my friends will be moved by different things. However, when we're talking about, okay, if you're going to argue to like, oh, we're going to advocate for stupid people, then you you immediately know that your jokes are worse, right? If you're like trying to reach stupid people, if that's the argument, we're trying to reach stupid people, then your jokes, the specifically like the jokes are not going to reach stupid people. Stupid people don't like jokes about kids. They don't about shame. We have to talk about what's effective. Okay? We do.

Have to talk about what's effective. And in the case, and you, and you can't debate them into liking it, by the way, of when shame works and when it doesn't. Shame works when everyone disagrees with the thing that you're shaming. So if I shame somebody for being a, everyone's happy to jump on board because we all agree it's kind of not good.

There was a really interesting study that came out in the performative hedging is funny. I, I think I probably do this still too. We, we mostly agree that shaming is kind of not good. Why do you have to? Okay. All right. Sweden that was looking on the effect, efficacy of shaming rhetoric on human rights violations versus climate change. And what we found is that when we shame people for violating human rights, people tend to jump on board. When we shame people for things like climate change, which is way less people are clearly not on board with that one, right? What led is people rally. I think it was supposed to be a joke. Okay. Uh, Kingler, Kingler, you need to hand over the copium. Okay, the copium supply. You're going to drain the planet at this point. All right. I think that was supposed to be a joke. No, it was not supposed to be. That was hers being quite precisely with no intonation change. That was not a joke at all. Harder to their climate change beliefs. I don't even. But I'm definitely not advocating for the scorched earth shame literally every Trump voter, 'cause that's all we have. Because clearly we've talked about a multifaceted approach to this, and you can be mean and edgy and reach out to people, and these are both things that are not diametric. I agree, and I think that you do that well, many of the times. I think that you do that well. For example, I wouldn't be having like nearly as cogent of a conversation with leftists, right? If I was talking to leftists, I would have to go like way the back up. However, what I am talking to is when you talk to Tally, for example, I think that that was a really good example of you failing these principles that we have talked about that you care about. My principles are when someone me off, I'm going to yell at them. Um, sometimes I can restrain that, but when they're so stupid and also have the smugness and condescension that Tally has to go and say, "Hey, I know what the Democrats should do. I'm going to call them stupid." I think you guys talk about kids in order to do that. Asking you not. Oh, okay. Yeah, if you ask if you ask Destiny, he would say, "Uh, what did Trump do? What what did Trump do, though? What about Trump? What do you mean? Why are you trying to police me talking about kids jerking off when Trump's there?" Trump, why are you trying to pay attention to any of my criminal, any of my court cases, sorry, or anything going on with that when Trump's there? Trump's there, guys. Trump, Trump. Think, can I finish like my line of argument? Oh, I think if Connor was next to this guy in real life, he would hit him in the shoulder for sure. I guess comedy is illegal now. How? Just yes or no. Do you want to talk about 12-year-olds or not? Yes or no? Soy pill, can I get an answer from you? Do you want to talk about 12-year-olds? Yes or no? Yours 'cause I don't care as much about the joke. Sure. Okay. So, I think both of you are too. That his answer was, "I guess jokes are illegal now, right?" Do you need to talk about in order to do that? Hold on. Asking you to swipe. I think I think comedy is legal. Can I finish? Like comedy is legal though. Oh, sorry. He said, "So that is is that a yes?" Is that a yes? You want to talk about that? My line of argumentation. Yours 'cause I don't care. The fact that leaning on the 12-year-old joke is so rhetorically effective here, which by the way, you know, it's rhetorically effective because neither Steven nor Soy pill will actually engage with the question Connor's asking, right? They will always what aboutism. They'll always redirect. They will sprint away from it. The fact that it is so effective that they don't want to bite that bullet at all is entirely proof of the fact that they shouldn't be making those jokes. If that joke was good to make, if that joke was funny, if that joke was effective in any way, you'd be perfectly happy doubling down on it here. Care as much about the joke? You were. Okay. So, I think both of you are too quick-witted to go scorched north with as many people as you might want to. Now, Soy bill, I don't think this is as much of an issue as it is for Steven. Uh, my issue with Soy bill is honestly exclusively the Tally conversation at this point in time from what I've seen. However, what I've seen from Steven is that he goes scorched earth with people way too quickly. And I think he's too smart and quick-witted that he doesn't need to go scorched earthers. And I think it does turn people off of him. I think it makes him less effective as a political pundant. For example, there are so many people that approach me regularly going, "Man, I really miss when Steven was like more good faith with conservatives. It feels like he goes off super fast." And then you'll talk to conservatives that you disagree with. Like you're still respectful with Myron Gaines who you think pro I think you probably think 99% of his takes. I don't know why you keep bringing up Myron with one we have what, dude, um, was like trying to give him, was trying to be nice to him right there. She's trying to like give him props and he just lost it. Oh man, I don't want to I don't want to read too much into it. Okay. But uh, how is she hate this? He just she's like actually trying to be nice to him right now and he just loses it. What? You'll talk to conservatives that miss when Steven was like more good faith with conservatives. It feels like he goes off super fast. And then you'll talk to conservatives that you disagree with. Like you're still respectful with Myron Gaines who you think pro I think you probably think 99% of his takes. I don't know why you keep bringing up Myron when one we have, we have a respectful background, but two, you will never ever find Myron doing a two-hour show of like, "I can't believe that Dusty make fun of these children." I can't believe you. My guess is he would probably just say like, "Wow, pretty edgy, bro," and that would be it. So I like this is not the same type of thing at all. Like this, this whole like obsession over being offensive is exclusively in the purview of like most of like the Republican lawmakers and the Republican mainstream media and a lot of the Republican alternative media, and it only works because liberals will do it. Uh, the example you just used, Myron, he'd never criticize me. Okay, Myron would never do that. And also Trump, Trump. Wait, isn't she also on good terms with Myron because he's nice to her? What is her point? Her point is that Destiny, she's trying to say Destiny, you're not incapable of being nice to conservatives. You just like, if there's a perception you don't do it or you're not nice to them at all, or you can't be nice to them, right? But actually, when they meet the right conditions, you could be. I think she's trying to do some sort of like explaining how Destiny is human for him, right? I think that's what she's trying to do. Do it to ourselves, too. Like Republicans will be like, "I can't believe you guys made fun of this thing." And liberals like, "Oh my god, they're right. That was so horrible when we make fun of those things." And then when Republicans do it, liberals don't even say anything. And we're like, "Oh yeah, it's the 47th. It's the 47th anniversary of kneeling on George Floyd. Such an epic joke." I'll be honest, Stephen. I'll be super. Hold on. Let Kyla finish her point and then we give it to you if you had honestly. And I, I'll say this. I wouldn't do like child with the with like I wouldn't do any of those jokes. Okay? None of those jokes. Those jokes are unacceptable. But if he joked about those kids dying in like two or three weeks, or if Republicans were like absolutely using that as like a, you know, a bull work against criticism like a year from now, yeah, you have every right to go in and make like a, a joke about those kids. You can joke about those dead kids. Okay. Yes. When they're going to use it as a shield, you can absolutely do that. Immediately after making jokes about those kids, that's what's weird. And again, uh, I like this point from second in the chat. Okay. I'm going to keep highlighting that. If it wasn't effective, if it wasn't a bad look, Soy Pill and Destiny would be doubling down and they'd say, "No, that is funny. No, that is awesome. No, I love that." Right? They'd say, when Connor says, "Talking about 12-year-olds, do you think that's a good idea?" They go, "Yeah, it is." But they don't. They run. They will say, "Oh, well, there's part of the joke that's funny." Okay. When Connor breaks it down to like, "What the thing that offends people? Is it funny to do that?" They will not bite that bullet for eight minutes at a time. If you had the same social capital with Asmin Gold, Techone, or Donut Operator as you do with Myron, I have a feeling that you would be able to leverage your social capital. Now, they would probably cover for your joke a lot more because they'd see a new one. And most importantly, as MAGA is blowing up right now, if there's any time to pull people away from the right, it is right. God damn it. The Canadian caller comment, she's trying to put a fresh diaper on him, he's aggressively on the floor. Importantly, as MAGA is blowing up right now, if there's any time to pull people away from the right, it is right now. You could leverage that social capital to do so, but because you've gone scorched earth with moderates, you won't be able to do so. That's fine. But to be clear, there's no world where that is the case. The two people with some of the most political capital on the right were Kyle Rittenhouse and Joe Rogan. And they got blasted immediately when they tried to stray from the party, even if their vote wouldn't have mattered. They got immediately blasted and they came back into the fold. What was like blasted? Joe Rogan? What do you mean blasted? Did Joe Rogan lose a bunch of his audience? Kyle Rittenhouse got blown out. But Kyle Rittenhouse was just like a bro, that guy was just all gri anyway, immediately too. This fantastical delusion of if you play nice with them, they'll play nice with you is only true in so far as you're not as much of a threat to them and their audience that you'll actually start converting people over to the other side. They just want you there to look like, oh, he's kind of like a nice liberal, and that's cool, and so we can like be more respectful of them when we vote to take away all of their rights to the ballot box. Do, do you know why that the right is is hardly ever moves over these days? Is because the left has made it clear and Democrats have made it clear for the last what, eight years, that they are not welcome and they will never be welcome in the Democratic party, and they have done this over and over and over again on a personal level. So yes, you have. Hold on, let me finish. My Republicans constantly. You have Republicans. Hold on. You have, you have moderates. You have moderates constantly, right? Who are just getting constant from the left like, "Oh, how dare you speak up, but this is a white man and things like that, right? How dare you do this?" Right? And they, I've got more death threats from leftists that I've ever uh, but Porter Beller, hold on, hold on. Kamala campaigned with Liz Cheney. How effective was that? Was that you? Do you think that was a positive or a negative for her? Kamala campaigning with Liz Cheney because I would argue at least in terms of the, in terms of the zeitgeist, I saw nothing but criticism for that move. That was like, oh yeah, we don't, we don't stand with Liz Cheney is a total piece of why the would you campaign with Liz Cheney? So you could say that yeah, they tried it, but yeah, like I would say the lack of efficacy of that is sort of indicative of what the the core ideas are, right? Is [Music] I think Wick could use that as a point in favor of what he's saying. Yeah, everyone does hate Liz Cheney. Liz Cheney is probably a bad example because I think people hate Liz Cheney as the human being Liz Cheney way more than as a Republican, right? Everybody's got a Republican that they would have a drink with. People are like, "There's not a single Liz Cheney, okay, in the multiverse in every single multi." There's not a single Liz Cheney that I would have a drink with. That [ __ ] Republicans, right? The leftists are going to hate this conversation way more than any right-winger would, right? The leftists are the ones that are going to cancel me or try to cancel me for having you on. It's not the rights, right? It's this constant, constant thing. We give them no off-ramp. We give them no place to go. And when people like Tally does come on and say, "Hey, I my vote is waivable." That's what she said. "My vote is waivable." So comes on and says, "Fuck you." You just said that you're getting it canceled more. Yes. By the left. I agree. We should stop doing it. We should embrace all the hilarious edginess. I agree. 100%. Thank you. Yes. But soil, you already agreed that in the case of Tally, it was ineffective what you were doing. And if you try to win her vote, which I think is a you want to say I'm just too tired. I'm too weak. I'm too small bean to be big enough to like be good faith with somebody that just me off that just hits the threshold of faith with her. I was mean to her. Absolutely. Hold on. The entire I've waited. I've waited. You asked me to wait. Insanely bad. I have to stop watching. I was so grossed out by the conversation if I'm being honest. Anyway, so are you going to vote? Okay. Do, do who wins general elections? Moderates or extremists? Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. I don't did not mean to hit both of those at the same time. I've keyed up the soundboard or I've done something genius that I never considered before. But but your base, your base, it's moderates are the ones who win elections. No, it's if your base turns into you think that 55% of the Republican party is the reason why Trump won. Wait, you just you can do both. You can do both. You can do both. You can talk about kids jerking off and you can be nice to moderates and win the moderates. That's not what I'm talking about. We both galvanize your base and also appeal to moderates. This is I love I love that the the implication of what just happened there is that Destiny galvanizes his base by talking about 12-year-olds jerking off. Okay. Did we all Did we all catch that? Like you could you could galvanize your base and win over moderates. Connor's like, "Do you want to do Can't you talk about 12-year-olds jerking off and win moderates at the same time?" Obviously true. Sure. Those are two different strategies. Alienated. I hate how accurate that seems to be. Okay, you do galvanize these viewers by minors. Okay, intentionally so you're getting if you're going to be alienated by comments like that from the left, but never anything that's a million times said more by the right that I that's not worth targeting. I don't tell you people from the right are available for you to them up, but you're being a piece of so they're not going to listen to you. I don't think you realize how precarious you have to be with these people if you're trying so hard to make sure that nobody is saying that's not the right word there precarious how soft how gentle saying the wrong joke or something to keep them there and then if you do the microcond that happens then they retreat back to the most disgusting divisive person on the planet. I don't know what to say that is retort. Yeah, but like holding that mask is really difficult for me acting like a human for like more than one occasion. That's super hard. I'm not sure I can pull that off. Okay, dude. I can't. You want me to be human multiple times in a row? No. No. No. Thank you. Isn't it sad? Isn't it sad that the social rapport that the left has with moderates and with everyone else is so poor that they're literally picking a piece of over us because they find us so distasteful? That's my entire argument. That's our. But that's our argument. Yeah. This whole time figure out how to be a little bit more waivable on the other side. That's why people dehumanize people. It works. Yeah. You. Okay. Progressives and liberals have been so annoying for the past decade that the American people picked a. Annoying is different from being mean and being authentic and like actually expressing like a disgust or a frustration with people, which you've been doing, Connor, and I think is very authentic. In fact, I appreciate when you yell in this conversation. But if you were up there being like, well, I can't be if I yelled at Soy, then he might not listen to what I'm saying. No, I'm saying we need to put our energy into getting as many people to understand the consequences of their vote, whether that's for the Democrats or the Republicans. And anything past that is a waste of time trying to tiptoe and walk on eggshells for people like Tally who like I believe she said in that conversation, Kyla. No, actually, after all this, I still won't vote for a Democrat. No, that's not what she said. Should I waste? What she said? You were misled. She's not sure. She's still undecided. The worst part is I bet you if you are way less heated with her, especially talking to you two odd freaks, I can't believe I have to explain this that when people start demanding that you say something, what's the likelihood in that conversation you're going to say it? Because I know for psycho magician psycho magician terms. Let's go. I know for a fact that Steven, we diagnosed him now. Still won't admit that he's dressing nicer because I encouraged him to or that he's got an ADHD test because I encouraged you because he's too uh, he dresses nicer 'cause his girlfriend made him. And I have a suspicion so that you're just as OD. Oh, I also. Oh man. Okay. Nothing you to do something. You're going to be resistant, especially in a public situation where you don't like the answer that you are going to forever not go. Okay, so correcting the record. Okay, the ADHD then came from my lovely three-time accuser, Cherry. So, thank you. That she was the one to turn me on at a number one. Number two, now hold on. I don't think there are three accusations. There's only one accusation of seriously bad behavior, but like, sorry, criminal behavior. So, three-time it feels weird to me that there's an accusation of criminal behavior and he tries to roll that into something else. I'll say, but I kind of wondered why he would shout out Cherry here because I'd heard about it earlier today. And now I get it. He's off at Arerodite, right? He's absolutely just he's off at Arerodite. And so he's going to go, who, who dared off? Oh, actually, you didn't get me to do that. Uh, no. The person who, who, who you hate the most in the world got me to do that. He twists the knife. Oh, Steven's just really good. He's just like a deeply good person. He's like a deeply good person. Okay, number two. Number two is the issue. The issue, dude. Oh, she's not been tilted by anything like that comment right there, dude. Number two. Okay. Number two. Number two. The issue. The issue. I never even I don't I help book your neurosy test. I think that's I don't even think I took a neurosite test. I just did a I got a prescription via telehealth. Just those. It's not worth it. Oh, and the illusion is shattering. Black Irish, uh, Areronite said that she that Destiny is like so oppositional, so defiant that he will not take her suggestions, but that he has to admit, okay, if he stops coping, he'll admit that Aronite's the one who got him to take ADHD meds and got him to start dressing better. And he was like, "No, actually, because you've been fighting me this whole time, which I believe this is true. It was Cherry who got me my ADHD meds, who got me on ADHD meds, convinced me I needed to be diagnosed, right?" And he hasn't commented on the dressing yet, but now Erdite Erdite responds, "No, I booked your neurosy test for you." He's like, "I didn't even take that." Oh, bro, it's rough. It's rough out here. Okay. It's rough out here for the friends of Destiny. Okay. Number two. Number two is the The issue. The issue. I never even I don't think that's I don't even think I tweeted her like test. I just did a I got a prescription via telehealth 'cause those it's not worth it. Um, the explains the issue is, um, OD is the name that we give dogs and we kick them violently. That's not that's not the issue is that if somebody can be persuaded by the other side acting at this like negative 10 mark and in order to persuade them to the other side like you have to act at this like plus eight and if you drop one point they're going to leave. This is not a person worth holding on to. I just think there's something else there. No. So, the entire point of acting like trying to do the plus eight or whatever, trying to be that person is that there's somebody at like a negative two that you don't see that you will persuade over to your side. That's like the entire argument. I don't know why he's pretending. It's like, no, we don't need to convince like Alex Jones to move over to the Democrat party. There are other people that you could win. I am telling you that right now the Democrats policy is so good and nobody understands it because they hate everything about the veneer of what the Democrats are so much. Wait, wait, Kyla. What is about the Democrats now is similar to what Steven's doing at all? Nothing. I'm not talking about I'm not even that interested in Steven's edgy joke other than saying no. Just like being mean like Wait, I remember this period of time. He's doctor shopping for a stronger script. Uh, yeah, he was just say negative -2. Negative -2. I'm no. I'm not I'm not Kiwi. Negative. Negative. No, I'm not Kiwi. Walls was the super guy. Was Biden the super mean guy? No, it's a people. It wasn't the politicians. This is what you don't understand. People are influenced more by the people who personally attack them than they are by what any politician says. So when you. It's over. It's over. You have to understand then that on our side, if we just point to the Republicans and go, look at what the president says, look at what the vice president says, look what the speaker of the house says. And on your side, you're like, okay, well, look at this Twitter user 487,000 just said this. So your whole [ __ ] Twitter user 487. You're not. No, but I'm saying that like if on the left, you can say like if we can say on the right, look, they're lying about Haitians eating cats and dogs and they literally made it. You go, what about that one where CNN said fiery but mostly peaceful protest? Gotcha. And it's like, oh, well, if that's the standard, like you. It's really upsetting when Republicans won't hold their own people accountable, okay? And I point out something bad and they just what aboutism to something my side did. It's really upsetting when that happens. Now, back to Trumpian homicides. That's the standard. That's the bad behavior. And you should call out bad behavior regardless of who's doing it. That's the other thing that me off. No, no, no, no. So [ __ ] obvious [ __ ] No, [ __ ] that. You [ __ ] literally said in this debate, oh, the this is the crux of the entire issue is I pushed you enough that you finally said all bad behavior is on the table because the right wing is doing bad behavior. As long as we win, I don't give a [ __ ]. It's not all behavior. There's worse stuff in life than making a mean joke at somebody. Nobody said that. Nobody said that. Where did I even imply that all bad behavior is on the table? So I'm muting myself because I'm putting on Miss Rachel. Uh, so anyways, the what did I say? I even apply that all. I'm answering your question. You asked me a question 10 to 15 minutes ago. You literally said like, man, it must be so. On an unrelated note, it must be so hard to do this and maintain your like heat for the debate and also be like trying to take care of your kids at the same time. As long as it gets me a hard hardcore left-wing whatever. You were actually excusing a bad behavior. You might not have used no bad behavior or bad or jokes. When am I excusing bad behavior? Yeah, misinformation. Rewind the tape. Bad behavior is scorch going scorched earth on people who don't deserve it. It's making fun of Tecton's dad because he doesn't like your edgy joke. It's for example, Teone brought his dad out to fight somebody to wield him as a veteran or whatever. That's true. So his dad is fair game. Unfortunately, that's kind of how it works. Saying that he's just sad because the victims, the girls died, and he has less victims now makes it fair game because once Tekton's dad was public as well. I'm saying that if you're going to weaponize your dad to win internet arguments, that I at that point, I mean, it kind of is your. If your dad's got criminal convictions for assault, okay, or drop to assault from sexual assault, then people are going to use that against you if you bring him up in a conversation. Okay. You go, "How dare you talk about the army?" "My dad was a veteran." Yeah, but he in the army. Not technically, not literally, but in a colloquial sense. Okay. Actual. It's kind of out there. Yeah. No. That's why he came back at me and he tried to make fun of me and my son or whatever. Like, oh, it's fair game, you know. It's not at all. What do you mean? That was the level that we were at. It's not. That's where we were. It is. Just because you guys your way down to hell. Just because you mullock game your way down to hell. The Republicans are already in hell. They're already in hell and they're winning down there. I agree. I agree. You're doing the Molex game thing again where she like won't define what it is. This is like a private language. I don't know. Like, does she not realize you're not a strange what? I They're not. They're literally not literally are literally. No, they won the election in the major bet again. Why? Why is it because of edgy jokes and meanness? It certainly didn't hurt them. Do you think that that's why they won? I know that Nikki Haley and No, DeSantis didn't even get a debate with the meanest guy on the planet. So, it seems like it didn't affect them too much being mean. I mean, that's just it's just such useless analysis, right? Oh, they couldn't. Hey, they couldn't affect. They couldn't make this guy debate. So, hey, because they couldn't make him debate, that actually means that being an talking about 12-year-olds or whatever, or sorry, talking about 12-year-olds having that's okay for me. I, I don't understand why he even attempts this. And he is. No, it's Malik. Malik, like the um like the demon Malik. Okay. Not Mollisk. God damn it. Was it who came on and said that all Puerto Ricans live on an island of garbage? And they actually were able to turn that into a promotional thing where Trump garbage truck. Didn't they didn't Trump totally disavow Tony Hitchcliffe for that? I thought he totally disavowed Tony Hitchcliffe for that. He was like, "I have no idea who this loser is." This guy what on the election like because when the only crash that I saw there were Joe Biden. Do you think Joe? I don't need this. I don't need this. You don't need to convince me that Republicans. Both of these points are like totally disingenuous. I think that Puerto Rican comment scared the out of Trump and he was like, "Oh my god, I don't I don't know what the this guy's talking about, right? Like I don't know this guy's a loser. I don't want to be around him." And then whatever backlash on there wasn't real backlash on Biden for that. Come on. Are you think Joe Biden's mean? Do you think Joe Biden is mean? Does he? Okay. So, when he says, "Hey, the people who call all Puerto Ricans garbage are garbage and they use that as a promotional thing for their campaign and then are able to win off of that." What? What would Biden off of you stupid? What I am? It's really not. It's really not saying to you is that what I am saying. No, it did not. What I am saying is that despite how awful they are, despite the fact that their principles are in hell, people still find them a better choice than the Democrats. And I'm saying that the reason why the Democrats are so disliked, besides despite our principles being higher, is because of behavior, particularly because we are the side that says that we're the moral good guys. The Republicans aren't doing that anymore in any way, shape, or form. Not because we say like, you know, the the Republicans. You think that I've said this a million times that was the reason I, I, I'll say this again. The reason that we likely lost lost is because Trump had about eight years of campaigning and Kyla had three months. Because uh, I don't believe that's true. I think Republicans do paint themselves as the good guys. I think they absolutely are like, we are the good guys because we don't kids. They kids. We don't kids. We're the good guys by default. It doesn't matter how we talk. It doesn't matter how we act. They kids. We don't. Boom. We got them easy. That's actually the core idea of how they could be such people in every other dimension because hey, they're trying to your kids. Doesn't matter how bad we are. We could we could try to burn half this country down. They're trying to your kid. Does your kid important to you? There's no way. Okay, thank god I'm not muted. Holy [ __ ]. I thought I was muted for a second. Had dementia and also something weird happened globally that the right and incumbents overall just failed probably because of inflation post-COVID. That's probably why we lost. Actually, you're right. That's such a bigger factor and like nowhere, especially when Tim Walls and the whole campaign started calling them weird, was that the thing that was like, well, moderates were like, whoa, hold on, you're calling again. I don't know this from the very beginning and I'll say it again so that you can engage with the argument. So, about my claim, but then stop saying you just want us to be nice. I've never for a second said be nice. I think that this is weird but super effective because it's mean in an effective way. And what I'm saying is that when you're smug and nasty to Tally, it's ineffective. And I said the case unfortunately they were in effect weird, smug, and nasty. Kyla, not to the same extent. Hold on. Yeah. Decade. We know we we looked up the mullet game thing. We saw the late star codex or the less wrong article on it. We looked it up. But it's like why are you using a totally like what do you call it like a coded term? Why are you using like a totally bespoke term for something you could just describe with words, right? It's to sound smart. Anyway, hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Do you think calling Walt Republicans weird is the same for your argument? You can do that. But then I don't know what the we're talking about. Every single person can understand that if somebody says that's really weird, that it's not the same thing as being super smug and saying things like, "Here, let me pull up the notes." I think you should be embarrassed. I am only here so I can tell you to go away. I It is unconscionable that you are here and talking in any way. Mhm. Do you want me to keep going about all the nasty? I actually do want to. I I would make more nasty comments knowing how stupid she is now. I actually keep going. Okay. Do you think that that's the same thing as calling somebody weird? No, I I would say I'm more impressive than. So glad you showed up in the conversation. What level of What level of smugness and condescension is allowed? I'm not sure precisely, but what I am talking about here is that weird is fine. Saying stupid isn't. Hold on. You're not going to make me do this thing where I stick. Why? Why won't Soy Pill actually could put his big boy misogynist pants on and go being a little condescending right now, sweetheart? You know, condescending and rude right now. Actually kind of not persuading me at all. I'll give you one story. Yes, you are. You actually are saying you're doing what 100,000 grains of sand become not a heap, but just a brain. Wow. Wow. Wow. Of a heap of sand. I don't have a heap and I can look at a single grain of sand. What are you advocating for people like Steven and I who are edgy in ways that you don't like? Clearly in some ways and not in the other ways 'cause you're okay with being mean. I, I'm saying that if you listen, I'm agreeing with you. I understand you don't hate the meanness and the edge. I don't know why. Just bite the bullet. The edginess is part of it. Bite the bullet. They literally won't bite the bullet on on doubling down or just saying yes to the edgy part only. It is it is edgy jokes. Yes, that is part of it. Come on. But then what is allowed? 'Cause it's like, well, here it's allowed, here it's not. And I want to answer your question genuinely. Cool. But you got to let me answer it and then hold without saying too much. Good luck. Okay, we're going to go. Soy is going to finish his question. We're going to give Aerodite a chance to answer it and then counter points. I know you went in so get you in. I'm not trying to local wager you into the exact position. You have to say this is the line 'cause obviously you're okay with edginess. I, I know you are. In fact, you were very you nice. You clipped the clip of me saying rotarter. That was very nice of you. But when is it okay? When is it not? Not explicitly, but what are you advocating for us to do? Is like, "Oh, this is like, are we going to call out people every time they cross the line, whatever that arbitrary line is? Are we going to waste a bunch of energy having these conversations every week? Every time there's an edgy joke that goes decade, it's not really about that. It's it should be about political effectiveness. And it's like it's basically saying you shouldn't make edgy jokes that harm your movement for your own gain. That's probably what it should be, right? If you're doing if you're like if your group gets criticized for something, you lean into that behavior 100%. You're over your that's probably where you should go. Something like that. They're not quite doing that. Um, but again, it's like making a moral argument over this is probably bad. It's just like, can we all agree that's like bad for the movement? And that's where you have the argument. Yeah. Arguing over tone is just pointless. It should be about substance. Unfortunately, when the tone is about kids or children, especially dead children, uh, especially dead children who died like 24 hours or 48 hours ago, the tone should be policed probably if you want to be politically effective. That's how it is. Goes too far. What are you advocating for? What I'm talking about is two things. I think there's some good general rules. I think Connor's outlined. In general, probably avoid children. People don't like children. Children don't even vote. Parents do. Sorry, people like kids. I don't get it. Kids can be. I know. That's why they're trying to cover up the Epstein list now, right? That's true. That's true. They like touching them, too. However, in general, I would avoid standing on the graves of dead children, especially within two days of them dying. I think in general what a donut operator does. You're always you're always going to lose that object battle. You just always will. It's never going to be a good stand for you. However, more than that, when I'm talking about like broader like how we should orient ourselves, I think we need to look at the people that we are talking to and we need to understand where they are and have a fundamental principle that doesn't say if you're a Trump voter who's too stupid to engage, I now get to go scorched to earth and anything I say and do to you is okay because you're not worth my time. I think that that is fundamentally an anti-democrat. I don't know why she's got like so much more heat for the Soy pill guy than Destiny who came on here like actually actually freaked out at her, actually like took away her her W that she thought she had for fixing his ADHD or coming on and like vaguely bouncing between doubling down or not doubling down on kids or sorry joking about kids joking about kids or joking about kids. Okay. And also basically said, "Well, between growing my audience and my political movement, well, I don't know. It's really hard to say, right?" But she's going after Soy pillic principle and I think it's harmful to our movement to do. However, I think other people do it worse than you two. Unfortunately, you two were the two called in to do this, right? But these would be my principles. Sorry, when I ask why, that is a rhetorical question. Okay? We all know why. We all know why. We all know why. You don't have an orientation towards Republicans that they are logically evil, that if somebody has voted for Trump, that they deserve to be treated poorly. And I think you need saying we should either you my your line for your scorched earth threshold is way too low. Undecided voter who admits stupidity and is speaking as a a pundit of authority on it. Stupidity. I talk a lot of stupid people. It's stupid people that are smug and in positions of talking down to an audience of people that I am calling out. And if you want to go back and watch how smugged Tally was being in that, you can 'cause smug too, and that's fine. But I'm going not that smug. She was exclusively smug after you came in swinging, which by the way, you earned, right? I don't think I don't think I quite watched enough. Did I watch enough of Soy pill on there? I wonder if there was more there that I could have, like, I didn't see him like swinging super hard on the person. Right. I, which is fine, by the way, but I said she was smug before I even went on, which is why I wanted to come on because it was triggering me how she was speaking of authority. Watch the whole thing. All right. Well, fine. That's your opinion on it. What I'm saying is my suspicion is my suspicion. She wasn't. I'm telling you. I'm telling you, the reason that you thought it was smug is because she triggers you. And that's fine. If that type of person triggers you, maybe don't talk to them because I think you're pretty ineffective with them. Maybe because it's near and dear to your heart, but for some reason you get more mad. You've already admitted it wasn't effective. And if you are just frustrated with conservatives that you want to invent your conservative exhaustion, you can do that. But let's not pretend it's effective for a single second. And let's be. Didn't he just say he wasn't trying to be effective? Very honest about the psych. As he said that multiple times, I wasn't trying to be effective. I was like you. I was just saying you psychology of behavior, which is that nobody is going to change deeply held beliefs by being shamed in that way. They never ever will. Okay, great. So that's what I'm asking people. Counterpoints is wanted to go. We're going to give it to Counterpoints, or he's going to yell at me in his DMs. But go ahead. Oh, we can't hear what you're saying. Beautiful. Wonderful. Oh, no. Sorry. I'm working with children. What a loser. He accidentally muted his mic when he was trying to speak. What a loser. Fair enough. Oh, okay. So, I guess he's not going right now. Okay. While Give me Yeah. Give me a minute. Yeah. While he's doing that, the the problem I'm having, and I'll step in here for a moment, is that it seems to be your line, Soy, and Destiny for that matter. As she let him finish a point the entire debate. No, that's that was my like annoyance was he'd like try to cut in and she go, "Don't interrupt me." It's like, "Brother, this this this guy's not talking. This guy ain't got a chance to talk the whole debate." Is if I feel like it, right? If I feel except the answer when Kyla says, "You were way too hard on that Tally person." And he's like, "I meant to be. Yeah, I hate that person. I was talking to them." Okay, triggered enough. Then it's okay. Then I can do this. And I'm saying that it's not okay to just act on any emotion you feel when you feel it. That we should be better because being better. Well, that is I've never considered that. I thought we should just act on any emotion we feel ever. A lot of people are behaving like that. That's so right. Oh my god, you're right. We shouldn't just act on any emotion ever. Thank you. You know what? Sometimes people need to hear the obvious because while they say I understand this, they're behaving like they don't. Wick, do not condescend. My OD is spiking right now. Sorry. Again. Um, was was this guy like losing it when he when he asked about this 12-year-old getting smashed? I like what this is like the type of behavior. Obviously, there's a line, but it's like where were you even emotional? I don't even know. Was he like talking with this guy or something? What precipitated this tweet? What happened to like make this tweet happen? I actually don't know. And I see he's trying to speak to Destiny while she is sewing out on Soy pill. Sure. Nothing bizarre. You're OD. Just reiterating that the the line for me is talking about kids jerking off. Just stop. Just don't do it. It doesn't say kids. Do we 16, 18? What are we talking? Are we including time in the womb like they do in Korea or like? Yeah, this is exactly this is exactly what it is. Let's go with Germany rules. I think age of consent is like 14 or 15. So, anything under 15, just don't talk about it, okay? 'Cause Germans are Wait, Connor, I have a question. Someone sent me this and I actually don't know about this, but I I think you have like a past feud with some I thought it was going to be. Listen, I thought it was going to be Queen again bringing up a certain topic. Okay. Hey, Connor, did you really ask Destiny about whether or not he one of our mutuals and it's like he sent me a video of you saying like, "I'm pro-eugenics" or something and it's like, is that something that is also going to turn people off? I have no idea about that. Yeah, is that Gibbs? And and by the way, I'll get my business with that [ __ ] Eugenics, by the way, that's kids. So that's a bad one. No, it's not. The literally eugenics means good birth. So yes, I'm for CRISPR.

I'm for eliminating genetic diseases. I'm for gene editing the future of humanity. 100%. I'm for good. That's a lot more reasonable than, by the way, he's for that. I will guarantee you he is for that for no reason. Okay? No reason that is conforming to his beliefs or his principles in general. He is for that 100% because he loves Warhammer 40k. Okay? That is why he's for Crisper. That's why he's for all of this. Okay. Cuz he is here for 40k. That's that's his life. All right. Then it's out of. Yeah. It's it's not eliminating black people from the gene pool. It's gene editing diseases out of human beings. Okay. Totally fair. Never mind. True. But nice try, Gibbs. You dumbass. He's been spamming. He's in my DMs too. Okay. Hey, let's just go back to. Can I bring up one thing? Yep. Go ahead. Tally is if you guys are okay. Tally is is very upset now. No, she's a waste of time. Don't bring her on. Absolutely not. Bring her on. Okay, fine. But not a waste of time. And just to be clear, to her. Hold on. If she's a. Do we all agree? Well, so you. Yes. Yes, we all agree. You think she's. I think she's for a vote, too. Just to be super clear, I disagree with her vote. And I think her like grinding her heels in to refuse to say that she regrets it at this point in time. This guy with the room of a 13-year-old that he's been spitting. Okay. This guy with the this guy looking, um, looking like he's 13 with the hat and the pickle Rick and yeah, that guy's kind of spitting is also. And I had this conversation with Trump. Why are you kind of not going to listen to you now? No, that was a full question. That was just a little bit mean. Okay, so we could be a little mean, but not. You guys want to be like slightly good, or you just want to be bad faith? Totally different. Well, the point is, I don't know what you're actually advocating for because you're is soed up that the one. Okay, there's two debates that not so well in. But one of the two debates she's like ever done well in, she's going to be gaslit into thinking she lost or gaslit like they're just going to run in circles instead of actually answering. She could have actually made good points here. She had good points. She didn't press them, right? She had good points. She'd made good points in this debate and instead they're just going to like mock and run around and never address anything. But it's kind of her fault for not pressing any of the points. She had them and she didn't want to. Scorched earth here. She was just being a little mean. Okay, you should know the difference. But then what are you? I agree, but what are you advocating for? First of all, we're just being a potter. Second of all, I said from the very beginning that I don't. Soy pill used to be called Soy Autos and a totally different person. Totally different person. Yeah, I'm getting the impression she can't press. Julia doesn't care about edgy jokes. She needs to shut shut up. True. Know exactly where the ruler is. And the stupid ruler argument is right. I don't know where the heap of sand becomes like not a heap of sand precisely. However, here's a super key difference. I earned social capital with Tally. I'll call her and still talk to her like she's a person and try to hear her side. And what I think is a big issue is that if you think another person is, you have now elevated your position to them. You are the person. You are the knower and they are the unknower. And unfortunately for you, that means you're not punching straight and you have to act as though that is the case. Which means that if you have deemed all these people below you, if they are intellectually and morally inferior, then unfortunately the standards for you are going to be higher. And if you act both as though you are superior and smug about that, everyone will hate you. Everyone will. Are you not being a smug contending? Oh, he's doing it. Hold on. I cut it off. I paused too quickly cuz I was going to make the point that like why don't you push back on this like oh you'll never ever um be able to convince somebody by being smug to them and then just point out that's her that's her entire argumentation style when she disagrees with somebody but he's about to do it. I him smug about that everyone will hate you everyone how are you not being a smug condescending house here saying you're smarter than her and now talking to her and being like well this I don't think I'm smarter than you should have. Oh, you should have. I don't think I'm smarter than at all. So you're also. Go. Okay. Well, I don't use. You called her. You say you're not smarter. Boom. Proven. Talk about people's ideas. Kelly is super smart. I just said that her vote. No one. No one listens to me on my own goddamn show. And this is getting frustrating. Um, so what we're going to do is I'm going to read some super chats and make a little money today because honestly that's more important than any of you. Speaking of guys, if you like the content, we are I believe we are seven subs away for another hour on the stream. Okay. Seven subs away. Uh or the equivalent of $45. So so $35. Yeah, $35 because we have some kickpot stuff as well. So guys, if you if you like the content, you want more content tonight. Okay. Add extra hours, donate, donate, donate, donate. Really appreciate all the support. I'm not going to do a long shill, okay? You can TTS, you can sub, you can send primes, you can do whatever you want. Okay, really appreciate everyone. This whole VOD is funny too. I'm guessing the topic or anything else. We'll go back to it then again unless unless anyone but Soy Pill vetos it. We are going to bring Tally on because she has been talking about like almost this entire show. As somebody who's better than Soy Pill, I veto his veto cuz I'm his. Okay, I'm going now. What the hell be condescending to me. Let me read these super chats. I'll go through them as quick as I can. Okay, so we're going to speed through this guy. This guy this guy is just trying to try to put his glasses on smoothly. Totally down cuz I'm his. Okay, I'm going now. What the. Don't be condescending to me. Let me read these super chats. I'll go through them as quick as I can. Okay. So nonchalant. So nonchalant. I love it. We're going to speed through. $5 from Caleb to say humor is more popular. Oh yeah, I'm wearing my headphones. Whoops. Harp and heady rationalist rhetoric. Enough of the hand ringing. Pandora's Pandora's box is already open. Then 25th gifted memberships from grassroots hedgeimon. Thank you for membership. Will is the reason why I regret giving you all free will. Jesus. Thank you, God. W God. $5 from Hunter Young to say for the so on here. Would it be more effective for Crockett to double down on Hot Wheels or to back down like she did? Uh double down. $5 from Fancy Teeth. Uh this messaging isn't for normies. This pulls people from the aggressive far left back from the edge and it on-ramps centrist to the left. It works. Zway for 20. The NordVPN tweet was a banger. Optics are for winning, but what is the point of winning if our memes die in darkness? Also, go look at what any pro clutching manga said back when Nancy Pelosi's husband was attacked then. Well, but here's the thing. I would say for the people like the the people who you actually like, like what did they say? Right. Um, and also the thing about that is, okay, I know you don't understand it, but Nancy Pelosi and her husband, Nancy Pelosi is already evil. Nancy Pelosi has already eaten the kids. She's taking the the blood transfusions or whatever. What is it? The the kid blood. The kid what is it? Adrenochrome. She's already taken the adren. Right. Nancy Pelosi's been demonized. So you can say anything about Nancy Pelosi and it's fine. Kids are innocent. That's the difference, right? It's like a major difference. It's an obvious difference to everybody. So you can try to what about all of this stuff. You can try to go what about Nancy Pelosi's husband getting hit? And that sucks. It sucks that people did that. But it is not the same as making jokes about dead kids. Which by the way, we're not even saying is morally bad. But just don't try to do the what aboutism and say it's basically the same because it's not. And you Solomarus, thank you for the tier one membership. Admiral Gibbs for $5. Uh, counterpoints the white supremacist trying to police jokes and language is peak irony to say civil rights was acquired by $5 from Hunter Young to say Connor acknowledges maga is effect and then okay now we can talk now the contents back up. What you got? Hello. Sorry. Um, I was just talking to D backstage. We gonna bring him out too. Why not? Who? Oh, please. Oh, dab. Short fat. The shortest fattest otaku. You interrupted our conversation, Wick. How could you? I told you guys I was bringing you guys on. Okay, that's it. Let's get back into the conversation, right? Um, do you feel My criticisms of Steven and Soyel since they're different. My criticism of Steven is that he goes scorched earth too quickly with people who don't deserve it. And oh, one more. $100. Someone gave me privately. I'm sorry. They gave me 100 bucks. This is fair enough. Steven is so deeply wrong here. Before the firefighter joke, his work had real impact, especially for those on the right. For many, he was only exposure they had to someone on the left who was both intelligent and reasonable. The left is held to higher standards because they chose to hold themselves to higher standards. They don't get to fail because the moment they do, it validates Horizon's narrative that they were never better to begin with. Okay, just to be clear, higher standards, if that means to you about whether or not you're telling a joke, you are so beyond. I don't even know how you're how you got $100 to donate. Unless that came from some government welfare program, it's probably being cut by Trump right now. So, congratulations. That was $100. Oh, you just criticized my Trump. Trump. You know, criticism for my behavior. Trump. Trump. Trump. Trump. Trump. Trump. Trump. Have you heard of this man named Trump? Have you heard of the. There's a dang cheeto in the White House, guys. That's right. Uh, gotcha. Okay. So, yeah. Microism would be that Steven goes too quickly scorched earth. And I think it's to his detriment. I think it loses him a lot of social capital that he could otherwise have and that he could be leveraging in times when particularly MAGA is falling apart. Um, and I wish that you would do better because I think you're probably one of the more effective voices on the left. My criticism of Soy Pill is specifically your conversation with Tally I found distasteful and I was uh unhappy with it because I think that you generally hold yourself to a higher standard and I would expect that um even when Tally is and won't admit that her vote was bad. Well, I'm much more calm now. So, Tally, what would it take for you to vote for a Democrat in the next election? What can I say to you to get you to come to my side? There's not just one thing that is NYSE back in politics. Yes. Yep. Full on. She's literally doing the uh what the uncensored America thing. She's like on that or sorry America on America tour. Kyla Turner Nata is a Canadian streamer and commentator with a serious background in psychology and behavioral science. Psycho magician. She's a streamer with a background in research that uses empir and oh and uses that empirical training to engage with the messiest topics whether it's gender, mental health or political polarization. She's proven herself on the on international debate stages. But what sets her apart isn't just performance. It's patience. Aridite brings a calm, level-headed approach. I actually don't know who's ever accused her of being calm or level-headed. Where? What? She literally did like the baby voice at the soy pill guy just in this debate. Why is only one half of her background serious? I don't know. She's just as comfortable pushing back on bad arguments as she is building common ground. She's not playing team sports. Her politics are liberal but rooted in principle and evidence, not party loyalty. If you're looking for someone who can disagree without being disagreeable and who isn't afraid to say you're wrong and explain why, she's one of the best doing it. That this is like actually just straight up satire. Disagree without being disagreeable. Dude, every time the soy pill guy has tried to speak, she interrupts him every single time. How is that disagreeing without being disagreeable? This soy pill guy has not gotten a chance to speak this entire debate uninterrupted that you could say to me and I again I just need to reiterate I'm not saying that the Democrats should be spending any inordinate amount of time reaching out to people like me there's a I I've I've declared myself no longer a partisan for the Democratic party and so it's it's there's a real question I think within the Democratic party of what should the approach be for for building coalitions and you have people built in the the progressives and the more left-wing part of the party who some of them don't vote, but maybe more of them are more likely to than the moderates, the people who are the disaffected liberals. So, I'm not saying that this is anything that the left that's Connor, I see you shaking your head. I hope that's not what they do. I'm with you, but I don't feel like I'm really truly not trying I'm not trying to beg to be wooed. I'm here talking as someone who formerly voted as a Democrat and talking about, yes, all the vibes and the cultural things that ultimately pushed me away. I'm not pro-Trump. I wouldn't vote for him again. I just haven't come out and said that I regret voting for for him in 2024. I don't know how much that'll do for anyone. I don't, you know, can't change the past anyway, but I'm absolutely. Okay. So, that's basically what I thought. It was like, why are we talking about how she's like totally lost when she doesn't even want to vote for Trump again? A winnable voter in the future. It's not going to be any one thing that you say to me, soy pill. No, it's not about what I'm going to say. I'm saying what what do the Democrats need to do to win your vote? And clearly we need to be listening to what you have to say about the state of the political because I because I watched the content related to this. Could I ask you a couple of things about like what was offputting about Democrats? Come on. Sure. Is this where the conversation should go? Like no beat them up over their M Bailey. I still want to come at Steven and Soy Hill for making a beautiful Montton Bailey and hiding behind it and being like epic. Wait, what is the M Bailey? Okay, I keep on saying that she's called him. She called him bad faith. Uh oh. Uhoh. The M and Bailey of saying that I didn't schedule your neurocognitive test for ADHD and then saying I wasn't responsible for you getting a diagnosis, Stephen. That's the M Bailey. Being mean alienates the center and you guys keep saying Republicans are in hell. They're in hell because our point is that Republicans are the meanest they've ever been ever. And this is the first time they've like won the popular vote in forever. How do you reconcile those two statements? Because you've already acknowledged that the reason why they won all of this seems like it was a mixture of global trends and acts of God himself. Also being mean is effective. No, no, that's the Trump did not win because of global issues. The Democrats lost because of global issues. How do you explain the fact that Trump swept with no competition the Republican primary after he lost the last election against the same guy who was supposed to be running again? Because they're a populist party. He's had a total like death grip on that party and none of the other candidates were effectively populist. Ronda Santis kind of was. Ronda Santis was just a total loser. As soon as you could see that he was like you could literally see the stitching to put his skin together. He was the the least human candidate we've ever seen. Right? If Ron if Ronda Santis had his exact policies and was just a normal person, he could have easily gone toe-to-toe with Trump. He just wasn't. That's why there was all the buzz behind him because all the policies and like some of the memes around his like he had he had like far-right people supporting him doing memes for him and he could have done something but then you saw him speak you saw him walk with those insane lifts in his shoes and it was embarrassing. You watch him smile. Do you remember him smiling? It was terrifying. Anyway, um JD Vance is the same person you're describing. No, JD Vance is infinitely better than Rhonda Santis. I'm sorry. He is infinitely better. He is infinitely more effective than Ronda Santis. JD Vance has his own problems. JD Vance is kind of a weirdo. He's total skinwalker, but he is better at it. He is just better at it in general. Yeah. So, and then it was Nikki Haley. Like literally just neocon Nikki Haley. Literally no, not a single populist bone in her body. Just a total neocon. Yeah. Of course the neocon lost. Of course. Uh I I I Why did he win the primaries? because he has almost all of the like voices and names behind him because they were sick of Joe Biden. They wanted to get rid of Biden. Just like hold on. If I say why did somebody win an election and you say it's because they got more votes than the other guy, that's obviously not what I'm asking. Sorry. When I say an incumbent, the answer is what I'm saying not because he got the most votes. Sorry if I didn't make it clear enough. What I'm saying is that he was an incumbent, right? The reason why he wasn't an incumbent, he lost his election. He was running the Republican party. Stop being obtuse. Sorry, when I say incumbent, uh I thought Pence could have had a shot, Kuryoko, but he did not have a shot. No. Um, all of MAGA hated him and you need part of the MAGA coalition to come over to you to win a Republican primary. If you get none of that coalition coming over to you, you have no chance. I don't mean to use if the word is incorrect, I apologize. What I mean is he was a president for four years and had four to five years already of advertising behind him, which years of advertising behind a name is super important. What why did he Clinton eats babies? Hillary Clinton was so utterly unelected. He won the primary. There were way more people vote. No, no, no, no, no. this. I'm not going to have you rewrite history right in front of me. I know because I was furious. Trump had like 37% of the vote and there were three moderates splitting the Republican vote. If those punts Kasich or Rubio had dropped Kasich, Rubio, Cruz, who's the last one? Was it Was Cruz the last one in the No, Cruz dropped out early, right? Kasich was one of the last ones. Rubio was the other one in the 2016 primary. I thought it was it was Cruz, Rubio, Kasich, right? Those were the three splitting. I'm trying to think. Andrew Tate just tipped $5 off game today because he had to read about how the top G got through his love first. Jesus Christ. That's a wild donation. But thank you very much. Andrew Tate dropped out. Then we would have Then you could talk about if you wanted you could talk about how Tristan Tate was clearly carrying on some kind of texting relationship with Molina as well around a moderate candidate and we wouldn't have this [ __ ] [ __ ] problem. O and I wouldn't have to deal with the Republican party exist was a moderate candidate. What are you talking about? Compared to Ted Cruz or Marco Rubio, you're like staple neocons. Trump's policy wise was a moderate in that primary. Do you think MAGA is a moderate movement, Stephen? In terms of Well, now we're moving south on the political axis instead of left. Yes. The moderate position of building a wall across the entire southern border of the United States and the moderate position of banning all Muslims from entering the United States. I love these moderate positions. These were very moderate positions. Don't you love moderate positions, guys? Hold on. I don't know. Remember when Trump came out and he was like, "We have to have a total ban on Muslims entry into the United States. Also, Mexicans are murderers." And everybody was like, "Actually, you know what? They are murderers and we should ban all the Muslims." No, there is a massive schism on the right over that. The every political pundit on the right was like, "He has no shot. He has no shot. He has no shot." remember watching all the all of the like highlight reels of all the people saying he has no chance at all. Zero chance saw that he was a rep. No, we need a total and complete like pause on immigration from the Middle East until we can figure out what the hell is going on. That's way before the election. I I'm pretty confident incompetent piece of all the way back in 2015. Trump was the Trump policy-wise was he was sorry he was moderate in that um he had some positions that leaned left leaned away from him but I don't know if I'd call that moderate right like he wasn't he wasn't moderate in his positions he had he had positions that were far outside of the Republican norm would say moderate running in a Republican primary is being the Republican norm right I don't think you get to be moderate by doing like a really far-left position of your of your contemporaries and really far right position positions of your contemporaries. I don't see it that way. A moderate when he was running in the primary. The fact that he took like a non-committal position related to funding Planned Parenthood. The fact that he bragged about being in Hillary Clinton's wedding photos and like that. The fact So that's that's not moderate in the Republican primary. That's like left in the Republican primary. That he seemed like kind of indecisive or back and forth on like the Iraq war compared to like the hawkish neocons and [ __ ] you had on stage, especially in the form of Cruz and Rubio. He was definitely more moderate than the other guys in terms of policy. He won because he was hold I feel like you're talking past my point. Okay, maybe moderate is the incorrect word, but there was something called the Republican party that cared about a republic and talked about the Constitution of the United States and talked about freedom of speech uh expression, freedom of speech, uh the Second Amendment, family values, all that. I believe online they colloquially refer to this as an a radical centrist. existed when Trump was there. But Trump hijacked the Republican party with a cult of personality and some people such as myself saw that that was happening in 2015 in Canal Republican think about what you're saying the vote. You said cult of personality. What was that personality based on? Wait, but we're talking about different people though and that's no follow. No, no. Why the cult again? They're going to say talking [ __ ] What? What's wrong with my audio? Did my audio cut? I had to reset my headphones. Yeah, I had to reset my headphones there. So, it might have cut out. It might have done something weird as it switched audio devices. But, um, what I would say is Oh, I just God damn it. Republican. Think about what you're saying. The vote. You said, "Oh, Destiny's about to say like what was his personality?" His personality was that he was mean to people who on him, right? He was mean to people who were mean to him or people who were his opponents equals, right? Nobody is going to get mad at Destiny for Okay, very few people are going to get mad at Destiny for just on Republicans, right? Nobody's going to get mad at Destiny for on streamers. People might get mad at These are not equivalent to the joke he did. He keeps saying, "Well, actually, what was Trump famous for?" Not joking about kids. Not joking about jerking off 12-year-olds or whatever the What is it? Oh, 12-year-olds. That's what it was. Obviously, that's what it is, right? Cult of personality. What was that personality based on? Wait, but we're talking about different Ted Cruz's ugly wife. People went hard on that, right? But Ted Cruz's ugly wife and then John McCain. Uh I like winners actually. Those were wildly out of character. Those were bad, but they were not the same as like the uh it doesn't get outside of the um or it doesn't reach the same realm. But yeah, those were bad. The ugly wife one was pretty bad. He did the same thing with um well he said something about Jeb Bush's wife too. Rosie O'Donald doesn't count. Rosie O'Donnell and him went back and forth. Okay, Rosie O'Donnell that's just hitting a contemporary people though. Disabled reporter again person who criticized him. You're you're never going to guys. I understand that you're going to try to co Trump being an [ __ ] to multiple adults into being equivalent to talking about jerking 12-year-olds jerking off or talking about dead kids in some flood in some disaster that happened 24 hours ago. You can't do it. You can't make it work. You will never make it work because it doesn't work. Why? Why try to Why try to do this? Why try to do this debate pervetry? It's embarrassing. He didn't joke about kids jerking off, man. Yeah, he did in this. Yeah, he talked about Connor literally asked him and he he did make a joke about kids jerking off in this debate. He literally went um actually since they were mostly girls. Oh, okay. Tequila Suns, I misunderstood you. Gotcha. Yeah. It's like people just don't I don't know. People aren't people aren't getting it. I don't know why. How all of these whatabouts all every single one of these whatabouts is horrible. It is not equivalent. It's not close. And you should feel kind of embarrassed for for throwing them out there as if they are hijack. No. No. Why the cult of personality? What? Because it was based on being mean and divisive and that's appealing to He bragged about going into kids dressing rooms. That is literally just misinformation. He He said he could go into the dressing rooms for Miss Universe and MissUSA. He never did Miss Teen USA. That was that never happened. You should feel bad for having that piece of misinformation in your head. Now Trump does Trump does Okay. Well, you mistyped, I guess. Okay. Trump did say something. Oh, I'd be dating her in a few years. That's creepy. That's creepy pres. That's creepy old bansit. Yes. And trust me with his with all of his over the Epstein files. Now, I certainly look at that comment in a different regard entirely, but I'm saying it's different from what this is. I understand the the the brutal brutal pain you feel at not being able to what about and dismiss the joke about the dead kids, making jokes about dead kids. I understand how hard it is for you to accept that that's just weird and people are going to see it as weird and you won't get to be mainstream if you make weird jokes like that in in that way. Okay, that just that's not going to work. We won't get the Democrats to be like, "Yeah, w laughing at kids who are aren't even cold in the ground yet and joking about them watching porn." Like it's it's just not going to happen ever in a million years. The Republican party being dumb as didn't have to do with the original point that we were making. It's not about being dumb. It's the fact that it's effective rhetoric. It works. I don't know if you think that Trump won because he tells it like it is. Yeah. Wasn't it way more effective though because Hillary was like swinging at him super hard and he got to always claim counter punching. Didn't that help his his his claims? He literally had his audience chanting lock her up. The the counter punching thing is actually also critical. Yes, I pointed that out a couple times. The counter punching thing he is saying, "Oh, you're attacking me. I'm going after you." Right. There's no argument that the Texas kids are No, it was not because Hillary swam first. Absolutely not. What do you mean? What do I mean? Trump was way more mean in that general election. And I'm still And I was even asking why he won the primary. He was mean in the primary. He's a uniquely unlikable god. Possibly. It sounds like an act of God. Moderates were fighting over things. Okay, so I can answer to the 2016 primary just real quick to please. the 2016 primary. One of the reasons, the major reason I would say that the Trump won in that is because he was anti- Iraq war. That was why. And he was one of the few people on that stage who was anti- Iraq war. He was seen as Yes, he absolutely was. And he was seen as anti. I could have sworn that Ted Cruz was not pro Iraq. Or maybe Ted Cruz was. It Kasich who wasn't. I think I think Christy wasn't. Um, I think it was Jeb Bush who was the person who got by Iraq questions, right? Jeb Bush was like trying to defend his brother's war and that was stupid. All right. That's who I remember getting totally by by Iraq war questions. That's not the reason he was one of the major ones. He was seen as anti-establishment in the same way that Bernie was, right? And he was seen as a firebomb into the system that was going to change it up. People didn't really understand. It wasn't his divisiveness so much. It was, but he wasn't being divisive with the people or the voters. That's the thing. He wasn't being divisive with the people. He wasn't being divisive with the voters. He was in the Republican primary. He was trying to make everybody love him. And he was pointing out how his contemporaries were, which is like a totally different mechanism. It was that he was seen as an ouch. Wasn't Wasn't he like super effective in the debates? He was very mean to all of them actually. Well, he wasn't just mean though, right? He was mean in the right way. No, he was mean in the right way. Ped Cruz's wife and by saying, "Oh my god, this argument the whole time, you stupid." I've been saying the whole time there's been mean in an effective way, not in an ineffective way. The only reason why we keep asking people like when you on institutionalists for institutionalist type things. They don't like smug and condescending. They don't wife ugly. Wait, was his wife ugly? No, but she made that joke and he got really popular. Do I have to Google pictures of Ted Cruz's wife? I don't want to. Stuff like that Donald fat. Ted Cruz's wife. Heidi Cruz is not that ugly. No. Oh, do they hate Uh oh. Heidi Cruz. Now listen, that's a handsome woman. Okay, that's a handsome woman. That's a handsome woman. All right, pull it up. We pulled We've pulled it up. Okay, that's a handsome woman. Honestly, she's not like ugly. She's Listen, it's Ted Cruz. This Ted Cruz pre-beard, by the way. pre-beard Ted Cruz. So like come on, Trump unfortunately was playing with uh house money in that he paid for a mail order bride. Okay, so he got to make that joke and and say my wife's hotter. Rosio Donald, is that or the period joke with Megan Kelly or the jokes about um uh McCain getting being a prisoner of war? Like what are all these unpopular things? I don't want you to have the exact policy. That's why we keep asking you what is effective meanness cuz you're not against certain meanness. You're okay with certain meanness. What the is effective meanness? Probably not on dead kids and joking about them jerking off. That's probably the line. I've said it times. Thank you, Kyler. Oh, why is it? That's that's By the way, Connor keeps bringing that up and then there's just crickets from the people who want to defend edgy jokes, right? It's like, "Hey, we're having this over some specific jokes." And then he brings it up and there's just crickets every time, which is just dead to rights proof that they're correct because you can't contend with the point that I just made. Is that why you pretend it's a non-answer? No. Okay. Wait. So, is beating the [ __ ] out of kids okay or what? Which way where if that's the only two What? What the what the what is this guy on about right now? What the heck? Dude, the falloff is crazy. The falloff is insane. Actually, where in the world did that question just come from? Categories of things that we can't make fun of. What are the Come the on. Come the Oh, can we make fun of beating kids? Oh, you know what? Maybe pause chat. Maybe maybe uh maybe a little too little too early on that. I don't I don't want to do this heap this heap grain of sand argument. I don't know. You keep saying he gra of sand. You're doing the nirvana because you're asking me for it. Because you're asking asking you for an exact mark. They're just asking right and mean wrong. These don't make any sense. We can kind of get the feels for it. In the case of the primaries, my understanding is that the Republicans were on him first. They were making fun of him for not being a real politician and he sh down their throats in return. He was more effectively mean at their own game, which is why it unleash it because he was counter punching in the first place. Rationalize any meanness, though. Like, well, how do we go? What's the strategy moving forward? What? Well, like this is um it's just performative. If you're going to do this, then actually lean in and bite the bullet that like jerking talking about this kid's jerking off or talking about 12-year-olds jerking off is totally fine and you can do that and nobody should think anything about you when you do that on a regular basis. Just say that in like a whole in a whole statement so we can get that clip. Okay. I get to talk about 12-year-olds jerking off because I'm soy. I like that. I think it's funny. And you shouldn't be able to tell me what I can't joke about. Now, listen, there probably is somewhere in the world, in some universe, a joke where you could talk about dead 12-year-olds jerking off who died yesterday and you could turn that into being funny. Okay, but that's a one ina trillion joke. All right, that's a one in a trillion joke that I don't think you can actually make work a lot of the time. Yeah, Kingler, we watched a bunch of videos yesterday or two days ago on Trump and the weird comments he made about his kids. It mostly looks like weird old man stuff. He's got like some weird hang-ups and then eventually No, I'm good. I don't need the quick link. Tell me right now. I'll listen, Kylo. What do I do? What am I allowed to be mean about? What am I not allowed to be mean about? I think the thing though, is the most accurate is you need to pick your targets. So, and again, it's weird to talk about this when I'm talking about myself in theory too, but it's not just me. People like me or other people with similar dispositions or whatever who are center left, center right. It also depends on who your audience is, who you're trying to speak to, who you care about influencing. It is true that there are lots of people on the right, obviously, who are totally okay with cruelty. Those are people who you're not trying to win over to your side. Obviously, yes, my audience will eat a lot of money, more money than I've ever made by on you specifically and having a little 2-hour venting session, and then I went back and you're right because the far left because the far left actually gets more pleasure out of out of attack than they do than they do attacking your far left. It's the narcissism of small differences. It's more fun to fight amongst your uh amongst people who are closer to you. Try uh what is it? Six subs, guys. Six subs. We do another hour on the stream. Get those subs in. 25 minutes left. Let's than it is to fight the opposite because it's expected that you're going to fight the opposite. And if I was having a town hall with a Trump voter, I wouldn't do that. So, my advice again, if we go back to Steven, would be specifically this. I think I've already said it multiple. Wait, I was saying scorched earth. Yes. Uh no. Uh I'll drop the scorched earth for today. But also, why the would that even matter? Meaning thing. What a scorcher. It does mean something. It means she doesn't have to say that you keep talking about children over and over again on Twitter. And it's weird. You don't want her. She's doing you a favor. She's not accurately describing your tweets. She's actually doing you a favor with the scorcher thing. If she has to just accurately describe your tweets, that's worse for you. Actually, it doesn't mean defy it. I can't. I've already told you. I don't know exactly when the lights stop talking over me. It's definitely over 50,000 grains of sand. I know that for sure. And that's the stuff that I'm talking about. What is the 50,000 rays of sand? Sure. One example would be right after a bunch of kids died, your joke has to be really, really, really funny. And it has to be more funny than it is offensive. Otherwise, it won't answer. I don't understand what you're saying. You're not saying anything of it. You're not saying that scorched earth or 50,000. This is Andrew saying that. So, this is this is actually Tom Foolery's like, you can't come up with a moral position for why I can't put Kelly on stream. This is like he's actually doing it. He's Listen, it is it is that exact thing. He's doing it in real time. We're watching it happen, right? It's like you can't give me a moral You can't give me like a moral reason why this is wrong. You can't make a like a moral there's no moral question here. Okay? You can't you can't give me a you can't give me like a rules for how this works. So, it means you're wrong. Like, okay. All right. All right. Sand has to be appropriate. Keep doing what you're doing. Colored. So, so then all these jokes are okay as long as they're funny enough or what? To some degree. Yeah, that's how humor works. Typically, you decide whether or not a joke hits or not is uh I hate I don't like that. I don't like that. That's like one of my least favorite things in all of Twitch poll. The performative like I'm going to ask a question with incredul that is like obviously true that we all know is obviously true, but I'm going to say I'm going to ask I'm going to say it isn't true by asking a question about it with incredul. Wait, so you're saying this is all okay if it's funny enough? If it's funny enough, then just anything is okay. And it's like, yeah, you literally have probably argued this a thousand times in your career. Yes. And these weren't funny. And you didn't want to be funny because you just wanted to off like donut operator, the guy who you like called a cuz he once said you were weird at a dinner or weird at some event. That's that's like what this all comes down to, right? Nothing to do with being then this has nothing to do with being too mean or nothing to do with going stage. This has to do with being funny enough. No, in the case of the joke, I'm giving you a specific answer. My answer to you specifically is that your threshold of when you go scorched earth, which I guess you want me to describe it, you get super nasty, you go after them, you don't talk to them, you make a bunch of insane comments about them that go viral and then that person will never want to [ __ ] talk to you again. To be clear, them in this case are kids who had just drowned. That's what I mean by scorched earth. The you've done with Asmin Gold and that you've done with Teone. My criticism for your meanness specifically is that I think that your line for going scorched earth is too low and you are losing a bunch of moderate way more open to talking to you if you were way less scorched to earth in the way that you didn't go scorched to earth with the red pill. You never did. What? I don't even know what you're talking about when you say I never I there are a ton of these guys that I blew up. What do you mean? Okay, you haven't blown up Myin even though he made monkey KKK jokes. I've I've I mean I've kind of attacked my before, but I don't know. Dude, she's actually just totally him. What the Why is she so mad? Oh, anemone. Did you miss where um Erdate was like Destiny's oppositional defiant, but I've helped him in like this way and this way of like God is and he had to be like $15. They kept saying this guy was going to be the mei of the left. I didn't see it until I started seeing his jokes. Real standup comedy potential. Oh, that's the death nail. Joe Rogan likes Destiny's comedy. It's over. It's actually over. Oh, and you missed. Destiny literally said, "No, no, no. You didn't help me get my ADHD diagnosis. Cherry got me my ADHD diagnosis and they'd already been fighting before that. And I think I think he kind of just like not Serite with that. Took the one person who like on her who like she hates, right? Who she won't talk about or talk to at all and was like, "No, no, no. Cherry's the one who got me my my ADHD diagnosis." H it you had to be here. Okay. You had to be here for like I like I say that he's crazy. I don't know what else I'm supposed to like I make fun of the fact that he says the he's not really somebody who probably should be able to say the because he's like or whatever like I don't like there are plenty of red guys dude dude I've gone like super in on I've got it on the tank with that I've got a ton of other people yeah like my totally outside of like my area and outside of like everything that I do if he was like a if he was the top streamer on Twitch saying insane on his [ __ ] is whatever you need to do to blow up the relationship whatever that would look like which there's Absolutely. Just to be clear, four subs for another hour on the stream. Absolutely. Anytime I make fun of anybody on the right at any time because that's what it takes. That's all it takes to go. You're allowed to go scorched earth. You stupid. I've already said just make sure that the people that you go make sure that the people that you go scorched earth over actually deserve scorched earth. I shouldn't make fun of her misspeaks. My misspeaks are getting pretty bad recently. I probably can't even call deserved it. He was never going to talk to me. He's dodging every single conversation. Even when he got banned, he sold Dutch conversations and he's making the most disgusting abboard things possible on Twitch. He's got the largest audience that he's brainwashing to be mega sick of fans. What more would I need for him to go scores have to personally make fun of me? First of all, maybe I'm not sure exactly what that line would be, but Myron has said you uh Marmadude and Huther, thank you very much for the gifted sub, guys. Two gifted subs. Two more gifted subs away and we will be there. Okay, two. We need two. We got two. They were way worse. And you have not new to that relationship because my man is not in any area that I communicate in. I don't know. I don't know what any I don't even know how many viewers the podcast gets right now. Who cares? What the Who cares about that [ __ ] I'm talking about your the level of social capital you have with people and how much you're willing to nuke it if they say things that you off. With Myin, you always couch what you're saying to some

of degree because you have social rapport and you're interested in maintaining it. I think it's the right thing to do. You're just you're just wrong.

The problem is that Myin is not like a soy. So you look at that and you're like, "Oh, Steven must not have upset him." But that's not the case. I made fun of the fact that I think his girlfriend and only fansish Instagram. I made fun of the fact that he comes from the wrong place saying the Edward. I call him crazy conspiracy theorist all the time. Like I roasted the out of fresh when he had his whole crazy thing blow up. Like I've gone in on him a ton. I don't think you've Would Destiny mock Myron's like mom dying or something? He would not. He He couldn't do it. He's not strong enough. He's not strong enough. You don't see Myron freak the out because whatever. We make fun of each other and he doesn't take it personally at the end of the day. Like that's it. But with Aspen Gold, if I say anything, it's over. And you're like, "Oh my god, you went for them." That's his strategy, but you're playing into it. Like if if somebody can be that disgusting and that mean to all sorts of other people and they get that turned off because who is asminold is like really not mean. Is he Hther, thank you for the gifted sub. We one away, guys. One one sub away from another hour on the stream. I know we're going to make it. I believe in you. But is like that mean? Okay, Huther. There's one more. Let's go. Thank you very much. Thank you very much, Huther. Appreciate you, buddy. Appreciate you. 1 hour 18 on the clock. Let's go. I feel like Asminingold is like not mean. He has like he has like opinions. He is like a piece of for his political opinions, but he is not mean. Yeah. Yeah. The Gaza thing the Gaza thing was was like out of character I think. Right. Asmin lacks empathy maybe. Yeah. Like the Alysa Mercant stuff is probably maybe that's the other one where he's been mean, but even then he's like fairly measured. He's got pl and he always keeps plausible deniability for his attacks and stuff. He always has plausible deniability. Like he'll cover the Alysa Mercante stuff and be like, "Well, I wasn't really going to talk about this, but she keeps mentioning me." And he always keeps it right every single time. So, I don't know. He's not He's not anything like that's there's not they're not close.

Somebody makes a comment about them, then [ __ ] it. Like, who cares? You were never going to kill this person anyway. You're playing their game. Uh, first of all, what I'm saying is that in the case of Myin, I think you've done the right thing. I think part of why you can get away with being so critical of him is because you have a lot of social relation. What's the difference between Myin and Asmin Gold? One of them will talk to me. I could debate my at any point in time. I have a So, Asmin Gold might be a character where you can never talk to. That's super possible. I don't know if that's true for Techone. In fact, very confd reference. There it is. We all knew it was coming. We all knew it'd be here. 100% chance that, let's be honest, if we were playing bingo, that would be center square, right? You just get that automatically for anytime Destiny speaks for more than 10 minutes. He's gonna talk about slurp and come somewhere. No, I'm good. He's not He didn't flake. Why do you think it's so accidental? These people are not flaking. They're dodging. It's obvious. We have Discord. There's a million ways to talk to somebody. I don't know how you believe somebody's like, "Oh, whoops. Uh, I can't travel." Or, "Oh, whoops. I can't uh make the show. Oh, I can't do a Discord." No. Obviously, the people Did you ask him to come like on your stream via Discord? Were you like, "Hey, can we talk over Discord? Just like hang out, you know, talk one time about some topic." Did he try dodging? And then they rely on your understanding and charitability to just further that narrative. Well, they continue to act like a insane person. And then the second you say something mean about them, a whole bunch of people, like oh look, it's cuz you burnt the bridge. There was a bridge. I think on this online conversation, I'll let finish and then you can go. I promise. Okay. What I'm saying in the case of Asmin Gold is it's possible that if you had warmed up and gotten a little cozier that he would have been willing to talk to you, right? People flake all the time. Maybe Tekone was just dodging. Maybe he was actually flaking. It's super hard to know, but I definitely don't think that because he flaked a couple of times and he has some bad takes that I'm going to nuke the entire relationship and any potential of talking to this individual. I don't think it's worth it. I think it's harmful. I think it's literally impossible to warm up to Asold any more than we already had. Like Asmin go was literally about to invite Dan on because of this whole crusade against Twitch. And every this guy this guy like nukes a bunch of like a bunch of stuff for all of his friends and then just like can't even be like you know what maybe I can just not make comments for a second. Maybe just hold it back hold back like just a tiny bit everything else. And as even flaked on having Dan on. So no that was never going to happen. Wait, didn't he flake on having Dan on because he didn't really have another platform and Dan got banned on Twitch? I thought Dan got banned on Twitch and then Asmin Gold wasn't really streaming anywhere else. Isn't that what happened? Am I crazy? I'm pretty sure that's what happened. Yeah, intentionally so. Not by accident. Kyla, my issue is like every example you've had and obviously this is kind of hard to like oh project into the future, but they're all post hawk rationalizations where we'll hold on. Dan got delayed from going on Asmin Gold's stream and then Dan got banned. But I don't think I don't think Asmin Gold was like seriously saying I will never talk to him cuz as Asmin Gold has positively referenced Dan after that and Tech don't talk to Dan got a lot of for this tweet so this was a bad tweet versus well this one really worked because clearly it's working you still have that relationship and like rationalization discussed a post rationalization how much energy are we going to Yeah. How much energy are we going to? I tried diet 1 and after 8 weeks I'd gained 15 lbs. I tried diet 2 and after 8 weeks I'd lost 10 lb. Now I feel like that means diet 2 is probably most likely a better diet for losing weight. Now that's not 100% true but I don't know if you call it is that a post hawk rationalization. You measure two things and then you say oh actually this one's worse. I don't know if that's the definition of a post hawk rationalization. spend worrying about which egg cell we're going to step on for these people that clearly are able to flip-flop back and forth on very little little things versus spending all of that energy into our own side informing the policy. If you can praise me for calling a congressman Let me finish, Kyla. You interrupt. You didn't let me interrupt. All right. If I If you can praise me, which I thank you for calling a congressman and now he's inviting me out to his town halls and now like there's clearly not a line. You can't define it. I can't define it. Why even started with malice who said the point is being edgy in the situation. The point is you want to walk it back. You want to walk back your example cuz it was bad [ __ ] and if you had called him [ __ ] he would have nuked you. You said when is Trump going to call you [ __ ] and are you going to get ahead of it? Which was [ __ ] funny and true. It [ __ ] matters. You can't draw the line. I can't draw the line. This isn't you don't like uh they are basically doing Loki's wager. Even when they do the um even when they say like oh you can't give me like a rule for this there's nowhere to there's no way to know right that is Loki's wager even though they're not saying like well where where is the line it's like they could be asking for rules and that's what Destiny's done is like how do you even describe this? You can't even des please please let me finish. You can't draw the line. I can't draw the line. I'm not gonna spend energy wasting time worrying about what the line is when I'm the largest political streamer. Are we just You think on Asthma, you think that something could say differently would make Asmin Gold start converting his audience to Democrats? You think something that Stephen or I could do? I think in the case of there are things that he could do to warm up and pressure Aspen Gold by being warm, by having some level of push back that's still like toned and whatnot that would pressure Asmin Gold, who is mostly just audience captured to have Stephen on. I do think that that would have been possible. And getting on those shows, which by the way, because of Steven's [ __ ] comment, he's going to get nuked from most Republican shows because they are soy hypocrites. But also now you can't talk to any of these people which is ineffective which is my entire argument. It's right now and if you want to do it if you want to do it if you want to do it because you are mad and exhausted with conservatives. I called this stupid and she's back. Apparently you can call stupid and they come back anyway. QED I've won. Aerodite I've won. You can do it but don't talk to me about being effective. I think absolutely Stephen there are things you're a smart guy that you could have done again which one are we bouncing between I keep kept forgetting you already said from the very you're being bad faith and you know that there are you know that I've already summarized a position that there are two elements to this which is that our moral principles are downstream of our political effectiveness but I am talking right now more exclusively about downstream of our political effectiveness my your political positions are downstream of your moral positions probably but I don't think Destiny's going to like that cuz I used to say that all the time to say why people shouldn't follow destiny. He's not going to like that phrasing for political effectiveness. And this is not a crazy take to make in that we bounce back and there's nothing you could have done. There's nothing you could have done to make technical for maybe but probably not. Not now that he's now that he's part of the the Texas, you know, group. No, I don't think so. I don't think so. Those people are all [ __ ] Tone is one of those guys who's kind of diluting himself and going, "Oh, I talk to anybody, guys. I'll talk to anyone. Not me. Me. I'll talk to anybody. He almost certainly would talk to Destiny still and just be like, "Hey, you said this about these guys. That's really [ __ ] up, bro." Because those people hate me, too. Because you nuke your relationship a donut operator, which is why he won't talk to you because he's now friends. Because Yeah, because I made a joke and he decided he hated me over the joke. Started lying about our real life interactions. Why would I try so hard to appeal to these people? Wait, what was the joke? Cuz I think it was after he thought after Donut Operator. Oh, the joke was Wait, the joke. Hold on. What was the joke? Hold on. What was the joke? Yes, Cory Caparitor totally deserved to get domed, right? No, no, no, no, no, no. It's not your No, no, no, no, no, no. The joke is after the joke comes after. It's He's saying the firefighter deserved what he got. Yes. And then donor operator is like, "Dude, this guy's a total weirdo when I met him in real life." And then Desty was like, "You're a you know, the jokes the joke of," yeah, that firefighter dying in that political assassination attempt was funny and awesome and I wouldn't care if my own parents got domed there. And then when somebody called him weird, he was like, "Actually, you're a that's two jokes. That's two awesome jokes same day. If you want to do it, then knock yourself out. This is I'm not saying you have to appeal to them and you have to go to them and you have to gravel." But for example, you could go to Donut Operator in private DMs, for example, be like, "Hey, blah blah blah." You could pro there's probably things and steps you could have taken to mend that bridge and have us so relationship get one literally Turkey Tom came in and tried to like put a pause on it. He was like hey dude like what's going on like can we can we fix this? like these guys kind of thought you were cool and now we all this like what's going on here? Do you remember when Turkey Tom came in and tried to like fix it all? He did. He came into the stream and he was like hey can we like um can we fix this? like what you're calling my friends? It's like that seems weird. And Tessy did his like little rationalization. And then Tom was like, "Okay, like I guess so." Walks off. Question. Can you give me a single example in the past 10 years where a single Republican either a lawmaker, president, alternative media influencer, or anybody online has ever done this ever. One example ever. I don't give none. I don't want to be Republicans. Wait, what the are we even talking about? How the Every single time they're like, "Destiny, you shouldn't rape." And he's like, "Republicans, right?" No, but you you think rape is bad. Okay, this is a hypothetical, by the way. This is a hypothetical specifically crafted for Yogay. Destiny, you shouldn't people. And he's like, Donald Trump people. No, but you shouldn't. Uh, can you name me a single Republican who hasn't? It's like, dude, we're she's saying something about your conduct and your answer is Donald Trump. There's a dang dang cheeto in the White House. Yo, you just said you said I don't want to be Republicans. that we are more because Republicans both have better. So what do you want to do? Do you want to be the moral election? Really? So she just said I didn't listen. I can't listen to him. I I have no idea what he's saying. She was saying you can't present yourself as smarter, uh, better argued, better researched and all of this and then present yourself as the more enlightened being, the better being, and then go but also I'm going to act like them. That's That's You're probably failing more than they are. Like if you think they're just, you're probably failing in some way more than they are is the argument she's making. Really? We have to play the exact same game. And yet somehow still losing. That's what you're advocating for. You're saying Well, it's not even about shedding people, Sophia. I don't think being edgy is going to stop him from rebuilding an audience. I think he's going to be able to rebuild an audience by talking about, you know, 12-year-olds getting smashed by their crushes or, you know, kids dying because they watch too much. Like, he's he's going to rebuild an audience off of that. He'll keep rebuilding the cult. But that's the thing is he is probably sacrificing long-term political effectiveness to rebuild the cult. Republicans having no standards has undoubtedly given them the ability to mass more political power, but it's also it also means they're evil. Yeah, exactly. That's like the that's the argument. And well, that's part of the argument I'd say. So, Destiny is trying to present his side, which is okay, but there's nothing I won't say, but there are things I won't do. I'm not going to like go and try to overthrow an election, but I will like say whatever I want. And it's like, okay, but Republicans aren't winning because they're calling the other people. See, people like kids. When they call you a They win. When you call yourself a They win. Maybe just don't call yourself a I It's like I I understand that's a wild strategy, but hey, I would love if Destiny could try to put that into practice for the exact same game. Hold on. I was making jokes. That's all they're doing. They make me jokes. That's the exact same game. It's making me jokes. Is that what I'm saying? Is that what you believe anything? Okay. So, nobody said play the exact same game. So, I don't know why you're listening all of the great evils and sins of Republicans to me. Do you think that I disagree with these things? No, I'm asking you. You're saying that this is such a politically effective strategy to mend bridges and try hard to keep relationships with people. I'm asking if there's a single example of a Republican who's winning everything electorally ever doing this ever. One example uh in the case of building bridges. Yeah, absolutely. Uh winning electorally. Uh I would say who reached out to who to build a bridge and mend a debris. When did this ever happen? Uh let me think. Today what Thomas Massie he's doing a Thomas Massie Roana bipartisan bill specifically on the Epstein and he basically went hatin-hand Massie is on his way. Massie is getting eviscerated and ejected from the Republican party because he's turning into a never Trumper. No, I don't think that's true. That's It's way too early. Trump has not turned public opinion on this. I don't think people can afford to go hard at Massie. Who's going hard at Massie? Wait, who's going hard at Massie right now? Can someone give me like somebody who's not like Lindsey Graham? Hold on. Thomas Massie. Yeah, like I don't think looming epste vote has Republicans eager to leave Washington. I can see that. Yeah, dude. I I literally can't. MAGA ad distorts how Massie diverges from Trump. Okay, so there's an ad radical Democrats and then they're going to throw Massie in here, I guess. What happened to Thomas Massie? When did he decide to start voting with the radical Democrats? Massie voted against President Trump's tax cuts. Massie voted against finishing President Trump's wall. Massie even voted against Trump's ban on taxpayer funded exchanges for minors. I don't think Thomas Massie understands government. I think he's a grandander. I think he should be voted out of office. Let's fire Thomas Massie. MAGA Kentucky is responsible for the content of this advertising. I think this ad is going to be embarrassingly ineffective. Okay, Thomas Massie, again, it's critical. It's CPT till till the wheels fall off. Okay, he understands the other people who who don't understand are going to Yeah. are going to like I don't know get they're going to be wheat. Okay. Before the uh wheat before the scythe. Wheat before the scythe. Yes, that's what I'm trying to say. That's the example. Yeah. Cut down. Okay, good. And to be clear, I'm making a It's queuing on until the wheels fall off. Yeah, I don't know if you guys straight away. Did you read the the CPT article, okay? Cuz I've been I've been pushing something. I'll link you this. You should you should read it. It's like it's not the best written article, but it is I think kind of distills down what I think Republicans are all about. I liked it. LinkedIn Discord CPT. Yeah. Critical theory. Okay. It's this idea that Republicans have built Republicans and populists specifically have built an entire identity around protecting kids and that like that is core to them in every level. They've woven it into like all Democrats and broadly government are like a massive ball and they're the good guys. It it's yeah it's it's got a lot of really good arguments in it. I like the article quite a bit. Moral argument making an effective argument. Okay. Okay. In the case of which Republicans have done this? I suspect that there's actually a lot. My understanding of the Republican network is it is here's the thing. Tulsi Gabbard is a great example of somebody that they were absolutely willing to build a bridge with despite her being a long-term Democrat because she was willing to tow certain lines. Not a lot. No. No. Kyle, she would had a history of very right-wing policy and she flipped all of it before getting pulled over to the Trump and that's why everyone was saying you're going to be a Fox News pundit in 3 years because they knew she was already a Republican. Oh, this is a self prophecy. They're like if I if I keep calling you over I thought didn't Tulsi Gabbard have a fairly leftwing voting record. What was her voting record like? Isn't that just where you go? You just go to voting record and over and over again. If I keep calling you conservative conservative politics content says people are going to say left I'm conservative. That's what they're going to do. Every single person who has said I am leaving the left has been embraced because they're useful idiots and says it doesn't matter you stupid. They're winning. It doesn't matter. We won't even let people do instead it doesn't matter they're winning. But then you said morals are important. Which one is it? You can't keep going before between both arguments. What is it? It's the only matter because they are winning. I'm saying I'm saying that the build bridging. Dude, Connor Connor really threw Kyla to the wolves on this one. Okay. Connor was arguing in the first half and then he was basically like, "Okay, I'm taking care of my kids now. Good luck, Kyla. Peace." Are you build a bridge? He jumped [ __ ] They did. Every single person who wants to move towards the left, they embrace. What part of the Republican platform changed to embrace Tulsi Gabbard? Nothing. They just embraced They don't need to They embraced her despite the differences, right? They put her in the cabinet despite the differences. She didn't want to go. She literally argued all the time. We can't go to war with Iran. We can't do anything to Iran. Iran doesn't have a nuke. Um and then she that didn't matter. They don't need to vote. They don't need to use policies. We're talking about personal interactions. Wait, when the have I ever said that? Uh that might be a point in his favor, though. She kind of just fell in line, right? She kind of just totally fell in line even though Trump sort of humiliated her. A bunch of people are like, "Wait, didn't your like national director of intelligence say like three months ago that Iran does not have a cap any capability of of nuclear weapons?" And she was he was like, "No, I think she's wrong on that." And then she came out, she's like, "I guess I got to roll with the president on this one." That by building the bridge, Republicans are going to simply shift their policy. That's what building a bridge means. Building a bridge is another way of saying meet in the middle. If somebody jump ships and goes completely to a party doesn't build. What word would you like me to use for saying not meeting in the middle but instead welcomes them to their side and are willing to talk to them kindly and when I say kind it'll be nicely disagree if you came out and started supporting 70% of the democratic platform I would accept you but you don't. Hold on. Hold on. Stop. Stop. Stop. Please. We're not talking. Look, the thing is here's how close Gabard was in Congress to other Democrats, by the way. They acted like she was basically a Republican in Congress. That's what I I was just like, "Dude, just let me go see." So, she was here. I mean, that's that's I guess centrist, right? That's broadly centrist. So, there's all the Democrats, but where's she's from? Hawaii. So, she I mean, she's in the pack. She is one of the more right-leaning Democrats, but she's in the pack, right? Are there widely enjoyed or widely liked Democrats over here? Let's see. We got any We got any I'm just looking to see. We got a name. Can I get a name somewhere in her? I actually don't even see names I recognize. I did not know Congress back here at all. I was just looking for some name. I can't see anything around her, but okayoopoop. She was in the pack. She wasn't like some Republican. She wasn't crazy. You guys are talking about policies, and we're not talking about policies. We're talking about how we treat each other interpersonally and how we act on an interpersonal level. And that's going to be far more powerful than any policy you might have. Taly did want to say something, so I'm gonna give the mic to Taly. Go ahead. Yeah, I mean, it's okay. Okay. It's like getting lost in all this here, but I'll just Looks like Pelosi and Gabbard are right next to each other on that chart. So, pick up on what you just said. It's not your country. Why would you know Canadian? I don't know. I followed politics in 2016. I just didn't follow it that closely. So, probably followed more like Republican stuff than Yeah, it is. It is the way you treat people. And again, it's about who you're trying to communicate to when you're communicating in that way. And so, you can match people's energy. If someone is is is obviously a freak, if someone obviously is mocking death on their own side, then sure, you can do what you're doing to their turn off some people, right? You do have to you do have to question is that do you want to become the other side? I mean, everyone, I think, was rightfully horrified when all the people on the right were making jokes about that that trans kid who jumped off the bridge, right? And now, wait, just to be clear, you're wrong. You're you're just totally if you believe that. Who is horrified? People on the left, people in conversations with My bad. Hold on. I take I thought you said I thought you said people on the right were horrified because nobody on the right gave a [ __ ] I understand my [ __ ] I'm still here. People here. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah. There are people who have consciences who are normal, who are not online all the time, who see somebody mocking someone who committed and they do care and they do find it repulsive. You thinking that everybody is some dissident Alcatraz in the alligator Alcatraz where the joke. Okay, I I'll be real with you guys. I don't know what alligator Alcatraz is. And at this point, I'm too afraid to ask. I got no idea what we're talking I've heard this brought up a bunch of times. I missed whatever this was. I got no idea. What is alligator Alcatraz? I'll look at it later if you can let me know. I actually I have no idea. Prison in Central Florida. Okay. They'll get eaten by alligators. I thought it was like maybe Republicans were alligators. I thought they were like grinding alligators into paste. I thought that's what was happening. That's where we're putting people like you. Shut up, Queenman. Putting people like you somewhere. Okay. Like you. Yeah. Like you. We're gonna put people like you in. I can't make this joke. I've I've gone way too hard on the anti-semitism today. Do you guys see this? Uh do you guys see this acidic Instagram reel? This is wild. Do you want me to go Hold on. Do you want me to go talk to my conservative parents and ask them if they find that repulsive? Yeah. Wait, wait. People don't like that stuff either. And this goes back to what Kylo was saying earlier. It's like you would have to prove that people were voting that the disaffected liberals that the people who held their nose were somehow voting for Trump because they like the cruelty. The cruelty is the point for some people, not for the people that Kyla and Connor are talking about reaching and being the cruelty towards the system. The thing that people like that's what it was, right? It was the cruelty towards like this faceless political machine, the deep state, all of this. The thing that had like these people, these people were kind of like losers and they got in life and the thing that them they decided they're going to put like a face on it. It was like the the modern it was like Congress basically and they were going to them Congress back by putting Trump in power. That's like kind of kind of just treating like reasonable humans. 2016 they are different. But the point is that but the point is that the Well, Connor, are your parents there right now, Connor? Uh, no. They're in South Florida. Okay. don't want to talk to my mom. Talk to my mom. That's the issue. The Because this is what I was going to demonstrate if Conor's parents were here because Conor saying, "Oh, well, you want to ask my parents what they think about it?" And here's what I would do. I would go, "What do you guys think about it?" And I'm sure Conor go, "Oh, I think that's really mean." And he would say, "Look at that. I own you." And then I go, "Oh, just curious. Do you regret your vote for Trump?" And they'd go, "No, I would still vote for him again. I'm going to vote for him for a third term." like the problem is that you can what you can do is what you can do is you can you can be cruel for the people that like the cruelty but it doesn't turn off it doesn't turn off the other voters who don't give a about it so I want to talk I want to talk this isn't hypothetical okay so what ended up happening was both of my parents uh they lived in the Pacific Northwest for a few years and they got exposed to a bunch of liberals and Democrats or whatever and as a result they kind of moderated in a lot of their perspectives And so my dad got into a bunch of contrarian podcast stuff. And so as a result, he did vote for Trump in the last election. But my mother, who's been a hardcore prolife Republican forever, got so repulsed with what the Republican party has become that she did not vote in the presidential ticket, which by the way, people can accuse her of being a traitor for that because she didn't vote for Republican. I don't think that she voted for Kamla, but she didn't vote for Trump. That a kid crying. Yes. So acting like those people don't exist. You're losing those people when you conduct yourself. Those people don't matter. Didn't Florida vote more for Trump this election than the last one? Moderates matter. You Oh, my bad. Hold on. I I wanted to go with the immediately mutes his mic. He should have deafened right there. It doesn't matter. Moderates matter. You boom. Deafened vote numbers when we could just have your mom as an example. I like I got to use that legitimately by the way. No, what's the point number how much of people are independent or moderates who vote in general election? How often are elections swung by moderates and independents? By the way, don't bring up. He doesn't want to think about it. He doesn't want to think about it. Shut up. Everybody shut up. I'm not done. Everybody's Okay. Are you guys hearing the window sound? That's not just me, right? Is that my computer doing that or is that Wick's computer doing that? cuz I keep hearing the window sound and it's throwing me off. Keep saying that the Okay, it's happened like multiple times tonight. Republicans have been sweeping for a decade, but you omit the fact that Donald Trump lost. You can blame it on COVID. You can blame it on economics. He still lost in 2020. So, don't tell me that it's been a 10-year Republican sweep. It hasn't been. I don't think anyone made that comment specifically. You said it multiple times. I need to hold No, no, no. Stop. I need to hold because he keeps on I think soy bill is trying to say Democrats have been trying to be nice for 10 years or something like that. Kyle, soy Kery. Kyler than Okay, I just want to be super clear. I don't know why you need to do this, Stephen. Because if you're right, you can just engage with what I'm actually saying and not a new version of what I'm saying. I'm not calling him bad faith before he responds is a play waffling back and forth between effectiveness and morality. I've said from the very beginning that it is pluralistic, right? You can have principles that are having principles is effective because shared principles is part of how you collectivize and holding yourself to those principles or failing to do so matters to the group. What are the principles though? What are the principles though? Are the principles not are the principles not being mean to people or not bullying people? No, that's not the principles that I'm asking for. That's not what I've ever said for what the Stop talking about kids jerking off. I have said it. That's that's by the way. We'll see. Maybe, maybe this will be the one time where they answer, Connor, he's made that point repeatedly. You made the jerk about You made the joke about kids jerking off. Not the jerk about kids joking off. Uh, you made the joke about kids jerking off. Don't do that. And every time it's crickets from the other side, they never say, "No, no, no. We should be able to say that." And again, I just for the eighth time we're going to highlight that means they're right. If you won't double down on that, right, that means they're right. You understand how bad that looks and you don't want to say it in a vacuum. Obviously, kids in death is a good life. So many times I don't even understand how you're possibly just answer the times. I'm going to say that it's the principal. I don't care. I'm going to grandstand at you too because you're being bad faith and I don't understand why you need to do this. If my argument is so Thank God for for if you're Destiny, you got to thank God that Kyla's here to just totally take the football and run downfield with it. Okay. I'm like Connor's got it set up on the one yard line. He they snap the ball back. Kyla's the Kyla's the quarterback. She just bolts back towards her own goal line. Okay. She just goes totally in the other direction. Yeah. You don't need to mischaracterize it. Shut the up. You don't need to mischaracterize it as being mean is bad. Also, the argument Trump is mean so being mean effective is stupid. Right. Okay. Conor, summarize Kyler's point. And let's see if Connor can summarize it. What is effective? The reason I want you to be kind is because I think it's good and I think it works. Be kind, but we can't evidence. If you build and maintain what is the evidence of kindest thing the evidence is 2018 2020 2022 you don't need to be kind you need to be Trump's hate guys Connor by the way Connor has actually crystallized the argument multiple times stop children even he even made it easier for Destiny okay he he left 15year-olds open don't children under 15 he actually made it so easy for Destiny he took what He knew about Destiny in the past and he was like, "I'll give you the 15 year olds under 15. Don't talk about them." And Destiny basically just said, "What about Trump?" So, right. But you should be good faith to people who are good faith to you. You don't mean nice. Sorry. Whatever word you guys want to use. I didn't say don't be mean. When I'm saying kind, I'm mean to people all the time. I'm also not saying don't be like be perfect. I'm also failing my own standard regularly. So just to be clear, I'm not talking from a pulpit. What I am talking about is kind doesn't have anything mean. What is kind? What do you say when you say being kind? Kind when I say kind, what I mean is like a more broader thing of understanding them as a person, trying to get into their world view and engaging in good faith, actually engaging with what they're talking to. And at your best, which by the way, you Stephen at your best is when you steal Shut the Shut the [ __ ] up. When you steal man your opposition, you understand what they are saying and if you want to build a YouTube channel, you can do that politics right now. When did the Republicans ever do this? One example. What? I'm sorry. What the are we talking about? So Kyla is going to They've looped on this like four times now. Kyla's now going to go, "Why do you think that I want to be like Republicans? I'm morally better than Republicans. We both claim to be better than Republicans. Why would I have an example of Republicans doing what you say when I'm saying when we're both saying I'm trying to be better?" But they just loop. I don't know how this this never gets closed. All it comes down to is stop talking about kids. Stop talking about children's. Stop talking about children's. Stop talking about children's. That's all it comes down to. That's like that's the easiest line. Okay. There's there's a clear line for you. That's where we can put the line. Easy because clearly here's the here's the reason it has to be there. You can you can actually All right. This is possible. You can kids and have it be funny. That's possible. Destiny can't. Destiny does not know how to do it and heed it up regularly and it looks weird. Okay, I'll open up the tweet again. This guy is telling a random story about his daughter seeing her crush in the driveway and Desty asks, "Did she did she him?" Like, like this, you're too weird to make these jokes. Remember when Desty would tell his audience like, "I'm the totally social pro-social gigachad. I can talk to any woman I want. I can always do this, but you can't act like me because you don't understand it. You can't make these jokes. Remember when you do that? Somebody needs to sit down. Destiny thing. You can't talk about kids. You are so weird. You can't do it. You it up. You do like this. Sometimes you can hit with them. Okay? You have to uh sometimes people can can get it and it is funny, but you miss too much. You miss way too much. You're not socialized to do it. Okay? You can't you can't make it work. You need to stop. Do you not think that YouTube channels and YouTube debates have any effect on policy? What do we think? I'm saying of all of the Republicans, what Republican channel emulates this idea that you're talking about the most? I've already said that. It is seen that the it's the center right that especially leading up to the election was seen as the open-minded space, an area was seen as open-minded. They would have anybody on. they would have anybody on when he started hosting conservative after conservative after conspiracy Thursday the when he would dodge people got so Destiny's going to sit here and go but he wouldn't have me on as if he didn't have the firefighter tweet right as if that didn't happen audience I wonder why I wonder why people like being conservative more than left I wonder why the that is true is remember when flint when the the flint double guy went on and he was so mean and so aggressive and so horrible And then Joe Rogan rebrought on the other Steven Graham or whatever the guy or Graham or whatever who roasted the out of uh Flint when he literally is dying of cancer. That's the Oh, that's the guy we knew was he holy [ __ ] was so bad and then his Spotify deal got cancelled. All the Republicans won their election. You know what? Do you think it would be more effective to be edgy and authentic in front of Joe Rogan or to be like, "Oh, Joe, you're so nice and and we're not going to be mean to you and we want to accept." Again, this guy just keeps going back to like, "So, you don't like edgy jokes, so you don't want to do edgy jokes. Stop talking about kids. Stop talking about anything to do with children. That's where it is. That's where it that's where it's at. That's the rule." I wish she just said that. She doesn't want to make Destiny look bad because she knows that I think Destiny will bite that bullet eventually if you just keep saying that. If if Connor was the only person here, was Conor and Destiny 101, Destiny would bite that bullet 100%. No, no, no. I can I can joke about kids or kids. Absolutely right. But Kyla keeps taking the the football the other way down the field and and then him her and this guy school off. All she needs to say is just don't children. It's not almost never a good look. Don't children. Don't dead kids. Don't dead kids who died in a in a in a disaster 24 hours ago. Accept you into our party. Like what do you think appeals to all those that go on? You don't need to you don't need to be insincere. Hold on. This is genuinely commenting Kyla because you she's obviously pro being edgy and being real. Yeah. So she keeps saying that and then but then she can't point to a thing and then saying kindness is really important except for about swipe. I've pointed to multiple things. I've talked about his nuking of Teone's relationship. I talked about the way that you talk to Tally. I have given you very specific examples. The reason you guys need to straw man me is because the reality is being respect. If if the left was so cozy kind of like actually honestly kind of won this debate, but it'll never look like that. She just she can't uh she actually kind of like made good points, but she couldn't press any of them. She just wasn't capable. And it was so fun. She just wasn't capable of pressing any of the points that she was going to win on to hang out with. Then maybe we would win against just have a housekeeping question. It's not because of edgy jokes. You're asking a bad example for the Republicans being nice. When are the Republicans nice? When are they being nice to people? Saying that I'm not saying any of this interpersonal level. Hold on. No, no, no. I'll answer Destiny's question. I'll answer Destiny's question. On an interpersonal level, Republicans have been on on balance nicer to me than Democrats have. Okay. Well, you're not a Republican. I'm not I know because I'm not right. And I believe in Republicans and things like that. But unfortunately, not everyone is like Wick. And there are a lot of people who is an incredible incredible contribution. Thank you. Because somebody wick. Oh, sorry. Why are you saying I want to make you counter points? You got to go. So, we're going to Yeah. Give your spiel and tell people where they can find you. I know this has run long, but it's good content. It's okay. I got to I got to go take care of stuff. So anyways, uh the line that you guys have asked for repeatedly is probably kids jerking off and dead kids. That's my line. Destiny himself used to say that Republicans and right-wing people were nicer interpersonally. You know, back when he was trying to Lauren Southern again. Yes, I know. That's the thing. He when he had Lauren Southern as the possible light at the end of the tunnel, he was able to slip the human mask on more consistently and for longer periods of time. He was trying to convince her that he was human. And as soon as he lost that, he lost his drive to convince anyone that he's human. And he just started going insano mode on people, which could be funny for a little bit. All right. But eventually he just burned all of his relationships with right-wing people. And now he's like, well, no, they're just they're mean. They're evil. It's like, yeah, he used to say this precisely. No, no, these right-wingers, they'll like talk to me. They'll they'll be nice. He was pretending to be interested in religion. The CS Lewis arc. Yeah, I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. Uh I've repeated it probably three or four times. Um and then also I forgot what the else I was going to say. Have fun ripping each other apart. I parasocial love you. Have a beautiful night. Okay, go find him. I have a link to his politics channel in my YouTube description. Go click that link and give him a follow. He spent his time. Bye bye. No, the religion stuff wasn't what got me. It was the being nice to conservatives and actually having conversations thing. That's what trying to be like a good person. It it was like kind of I guess tangentially the religion thing. As disgusting as you found my behavior, Tataly, she is back now talking to me and is open to a conversation. So clearly it's not so politically ineffective that it

Can at least continue a conversation. So what the pill? Hold on. Let me respond. If you're just going to be disgustingly bad faith with me, not actually engage in my ideas and not talk to me, I'd prefer if you weren't here actually.

See, if she just called him the fsler right now, that would go hard. That's like who was talking about the fsler coming back. Oh, it was um Idubbbz and his wife. We're talking about the fsler coming. That was an example of where we needed the fsler back was right there.

If you're just going to be a if you're just going to be a Yeah, that not being bad. I genuinely don't understand what you're trying to say. She wanted to do it. The energy was there, but she knew it does feel like you're jumping around a lot. I'm not trying. I don't know what you're advocating for us to do.

You guys, first of all, Steven has done a really good job of strongman me as jumping around. I have not jumped around at all because I've said multiple times two things. Number one, morals and ethics can be downstream of political efficacy. In fact, I think sticking to your principles and values is politically effective. So downstream I don't think is she uh hold on.

Morals and values can be downstream of political efficacy. So downstream means yeah upstream, right? So downstream would mean that your that your first priority is winning politically and then your morals come after that, right? You you you win first and then you try to get your morals in at the end or your political efficacy, I guess, informs your morals and but I think she means your your morals should inform you on what political efficacy is, right? Downstream is what she means. Are you sure? I feel like she does not mean downstream.

But number two, I think going Has SFO even said anything? No. scorched to earth like nuking relationships before you have any chance to build any warmth is bad for political effect efficacy. I also think making jokes about dead kids immediately is optically always going to be an L. I have said this over and over and over and over again. And if you guys can't handle that, that's fine. But that's what I'm talking about. And it's not Sorry.

She Here's the thing. She could say it's always going to be an L. She's trying to save Destiny's feelings. The actual prescription here is Destiny, you are too socially, you're too poorly socialized to make these jokes without actually nuking yourself and your political efficacy, thereby nuking me in a lot of ways. You're with me, you're with Connor, you're with a lot of us, can you can you just like if you want to tweet something that you think is going to offend someone, could you my way so I could actually try to help you be like a human being for other people? That's more what she should be saying. She won't say it.

But now to soy pill, my criticisms of you. No, no, I'm not put three things and now you're going to move on for we need to clarify this. Okay. Like I don't need you to respond to my criticisms of destiny when you talk to your boyfriend. He can respond for himself. Can I understand it, please? Sure.

Okay. Ah, well, she did it without a slur. So, she did it without a slur. So, you're saying that morals are downstream of policy, right? Or policy is downstream of morals, correct? Uh, effective policy can be downstream of of principles. I knew. Hold on.

Okay. Okay. Effective policy can be downstream of principles. I Yeah. Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. See, right. Policy is down. Correct. Uh, effective policy can be downstream of of principles. Okay. Can be right. But now it seems like you clearly don't have a hard line. I mean, well, you do. Dead kids are a hard line of meanness. you shouldn't go about dead kids. But in general, you don't have no somebody funnier than you guys with like better socialization, better understanding of how other human beings will react, more empathy could make that joke and it could work. They're not a hard, right? I I already said that. Like probably she just said don't do it. Jesus Christ. I actually feel like I'm talking to Waga people right now.

See, this is this is actually why she needs to say these two specifically or just Destiny specifically cuz then it's very easy. It's like no no no hypothetically it could be done just not by you. You keep it up. Stop [ __ ]. When he said it it quote tweeting people actively looking for the children within like I think 48 hours of the tragedy happening. The reality is it was it was 20 years later. I don't care about it being edgy. I care about the reality that the public reception to it including even on his own base can't judge away from the word edgy. That's why it's edgy.

Can I just ask a quick question about black people, but I might not make it right after like a on black people. Stop. Stop. Everyone stop everyone. It's more edgy. If it's really funny and it hits well, then you will get away with. Oh my god. If I have to. Just because are going to be relativistic, it doesn't make it. Otherwise, your moral system couldn't exist. you.

The problem here is that Arerudite has gone around totally trying to launder Desie's reputation. She's gone to places with her professional connection. Said this guy's actually deeply good person. He's actually a really good person. He's very concern or he's very invested in the movement. He wants us to be politically effective. He wants to be a part of the Democrats. Okay? He wants to make sure this party wins the next election. He's invested. He's all in. Okay? He's all in. He's going to be helpful. I promise you, he's going to be helpful. And then the Democrats look at her and go, "Oh, did he just tweet about how like how these dead kids that drowned were jerking off to?" And she's like, "So she's trying to like she wants to say, "Destiny, stop me when it comes to all of my political like all of my political movement, all of my political um capital. You know, I have all these professional connections. You are making me look awful around these people. Okay, stop. Please, for the love of God, but you can't say it to him directly. At least not in public.

Obviously, things are going to be socially informed if every single person, including on Steven's own side, is like, "Yeah, I don't love that." If consistently Wait, wait, don't say every single person on my side because that's absolutely not true. There are lots of people on my side that also really like the super edgy percent a large.

So, here's the thing. I don't even dispute that the weird come vampire rage bait will work and build his audience, right? He can build up. In fact, there's pretty much every argument in the world that that kind of tweet, the one about the kids jerking off or whatever and dying in the flood. That kind of tweet is specifically going, "Hey, are you also like a poorly socialized antisocial loser? Okay, you are you also just a total societal outcast? Okay, look, here's a community where you might belong." It's like putting up a big red flag, right? sending out smoke signals to all the incels and losers in the world. That's what he's doing with that tweet. That is explicitly what he's trying to do. He's trying to filter people into his audience, try to pull them in, right? So for his audience, that's great. For him being an effective political or effective mainstream political commentator, it's not as good. So that's that's the issue that is running into. She's trying to help him be an effective mainstream political commentator and he is not going to be that. He doesn't want to be that. He would much rather just be himself on like on YouTube, right? He he just wants to be he wants to rebuild his audience. He wants to get back.

Percentage. If most Republicans that I talk to that like Steven and think he's smart cite that as a really hard no-go, I agree that it's soy and beta and loserish behavior on their behalf. However, I am willing to basically look past that because I would like to pull them to my side more than I care about holding their feet to the fire for being mad over a joke. If I'm being completely blunt and honest.

Okay. Do you think Okay, stop. Nope. You're gonna get muted because otherwise no. Dude, no. Oh, you are. Bro, this soy pill guy is getting soaked. Erdite gets to rant about whatever she wants all the time. And this guy's like, "Can I talk for two seconds?" No. Shut up. Will stop and no one will actually let me ask my question. Dev, why jokes are always edgy? Dev, you have said nothing this whole time. Why the are you here? Well, you pulled me in. I don't know. I was talking Tally had me talking to her privately. You just pulled me in. Do you not want to be here? We're going to let you go. Oh, no. No. I I can still be here. That's fine. That's That's no problem. I mean, I I have I have been watching this and taking notes. I have what I'm telling you to do. I have a few comments. Um, but it's nothing related to what you guys have just said. It's it's a different thread of the conversation, but if you're okay with that, go ahead.

I love that literally Soy pill is trying to respond to the currently happening argument where Arerodite is like freaking the out on him and Desty, but largely him. Okay, so Pill goes to respond. Wick mutes him and goes, "Hey, guy who hasn't talked and has no investment in the in the conversation at all. Why are you here?" Like I'm sorry if I'm so pill. I'm like quite that's pretty annoying, you know? So that's kind of rough.

It seems like everyone here is talking about two different things because what Soy Pill has done to Tally is a different type of thing than when than what Destiny has done on Twitter. Because with Tally, it's a single person. You you have to approach a conversation with a single person very differently than putting out a public statement towards a larger audience. Which is why, you know, the the the edgy joke excuse works in one of these. It doesn't really work in the other one, basically. Um, I I'm not sure if if you know leaning full in into the optics conversation. I'm not I don't know if the optics even hurts the Democrats, frankly, long term. It might, but like it it is like you say, the the right seems to suffer no real blowback when they do really edgy or even really disgusting stuff. So, I'm not I don't I don't really buy the argument that, oh, this is hurting us. This is this is hurting the Democrats. Um, but at the same time on an individual level, I think it absolutely hurts longterm. If not short-term, absolutely longterm.

I mean, I was I was friends with Sargon until 2024, from 2015 to 2024. And he he was not the right-winger that everyone said he was in 2015. He became that guy. And he be, "Oh, cool. We lost counterpoints and we got leftwing counterpoints." [ __ ] Became that guy after leftist got him banned from Patreon. Well, I shouldn't call dev leftwing. He said liberal, but And it's like, well, you created the monster basically. And I think that's something you we should probably reckon with the left's fault.

Okay, Kyla. So, do we funny calculation like before it happens of how well it will hit? Wait, are you talking to Dev? No, I just I just don't give a whether or not Sargon was forced into being a right-winger and he just summarized things that we've already said, but I have a genuine question about his conversation is not about Sargon. It's all about Sargon. It's it's about it's about if you treat people like Tally poorly, who they will be in 5 years. They'll turn into like rhetoric. If you can stop that, why would I That is a good Yeah, we can actually hit a little bit right there.

Okay, if the if all you need to do to stop that, let's say that's true that you can turn people into by being mean enough to them for a long enough period of time. All you have to do to stop that is just be like a genuine human being like 5% of the time, then why not? Couldn't you? If you could stop that simply by exercising some self-discipline and self-control and not being ash to them, why wouldn't you? Oh, it's like the meme with the guys in the mine and it's like the Democrats were just one nice comment away from finally hitting gold with Republican empathy. We're so close. We need one more restraint. Definitely got that. That definitely was posted in his chat around this time. Either somebody said it or somebody actually posted a meme. We'll see. It's It's again It's a simple concept. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. But it's a simple concept. If you treat people well, they will respond positively. If you treat people poorly, they will run away from you or in some cases oppose you. When you treat people like they're going to they're going to fight you.

I don't like when Trump played games with FEMA funds in 2019 and in 2016 even 2017 after that one hurricane with North Carolina, nobody gave a or when he threatened to do it with California, they then Biden came in, he didn't play games and then Trump came in, then he played games with FEMA funds again. Why are we even assuming? Why are we assuming that the bases of these two groups are going to be galvanized by the same thing? I don't know. Why would we assume that Republican bases will be galvanized? Because we probably assume that all humans are galvanized by about the same always. It's typically we're all kind of the same really between left and right. I don't I feel like that is just a fundamentally purpose, isn't it? Or sorry, a fundamentally statement like people why would there be two parties? Why would you even have a split between people if they weren't galvanized by different things? How the do you think somebody becomes a Republican or a Democrat? Okay, largely it's where you're born. But I'm saying that like it still comes down to you are forced into somebody who doesn't fit in the other camp, right? I don't know if we should just presume that, right? Fundamentally different aspect of humanity between the left and the right. Sure. I'll give it to you. Yeah. Typically when we do personality tests, we can like almost perfectly predict the like the the political predelection that they're going to be to Yeah. Because typically if you're conservative, you're going to have things like low open uh I I've not read I've not read the hype book in forever. I can't remember experience and high conscientious.

So first of all, you absolutely cannot perfectly predict the highest predictability where your parents' political parties are number one. Okay, you can make slight predictions. Sure. But even so, somebody who has Are you softening it too much? I'm not softening it at all. Pretty sure the most predictable thing is the political party of your parents. I think the political heritability I think is the most important thing, but even that I think is like 60% or something. Um, regardless though, the the the even if one person might score differently on their big five or whatever, doesn't mean that you can't appeal to the people more or less the same way. You might do it like with a slightly different group, like an in-group versus an out group, but I think more or less humans are all kind of the same [ __ ] that why is the messaging so different and why does it appeal so effectively to both groups in a lot of cases? I I actually like he is arguing things that there's just no way he believes or that he would he wouldn't argue these things anywhere else. This guy this is maybe bro do I just dislike this guy now so I'm like not under a spell or some [ __ ] or is he always been this bad at debating? This is like This is like some of the worst This is the worst debate performance I've seen from him. This is worse than the Fentes one. I think it's like objectively worse. This was the the poorest showing I've seen from him in forever.

In terms of like what makes us laugh and what's funny and making fun of groups is the thing that most people enjoy doing. I don't know about that. I'm going to agree with that. Okay. Do you think that shame tends to make people move towards you or away from you? Well, it probably depends on the type of shame. I can probably do either one. It depends on what you're shaming. It depends on how you're doing the shaming. Sure.

Okay. Let's get into the nuance. What type of shaming is effective and when? Um, I imagine that it probably depends on who the shame comes from. So, if it comes from like role models or if it comes from people in your life you look up to, it's probably more effective. That's Hey, we said that. So, if you've got a role model that's saying something like, "Oh, smoking is cool or smoking is bad." It's probably more likely to have an impact on you. Probably depends on the age that it hits you at. So shaming at an earlier age is probably something that would discourage somebody from a behavior more likely than shaming somebody at a later age. Uh, probably depends on um, the other types of like coercive control that the is around the shame. So if you're shamed in like a classroom environment where then a teacher and your social group can reinforce it as opposed to like a TV commercial shaming you and then you can turn it off and it's a little bit more isol I don't know probably my guess there's a ton of different ways that it can work or can't work. It depends on the thing. Yeah.

So, one of the things that we know as well that shame is very ineffective on things that are really hard to change or like deeply ingrained into us. Such as, for example, given this a lot, being fat doesn't work to shame you. Unfortunately, shaming fat people, if it did work, it would have worked. It doesn't make people want to change their lifestyle enough to get skitty because it's very lifestyle based. Is this not like the worst argument you could do? Because I think I think for elections, you can't really make this argument. He'll go, "Well, we don't know that it's outcome determinative to be mean." But I can say that like for shimmy fat people, it's not like posit body positivity solved the obesity epidemic in the states, right? So like isn't this a one where you could be like oh actually being nice didn't necessarily do something either. I don't know. I'm I'm trying to think of like what you could just I don't know. I think it's because she's got studies on these fronts that she goes I think being fat is a good marker here for you vote for your political belief. I agree. In fact, I think that being who you vote for is often way more deeply ingrained into your identity than being fat. And so if it's not even a fact, just to be clear, that is absolutely not true. That's not even remotely close to being true. You you don't think that being Republican isn't deeply ingrained into a lot of people's like strong per like political like identity? Nope. I think that you could I think it is compared to being fat.

Do you think it would be easier to go from obese to ordinary BMI or to change from Republican to Democrat? Hold on. I'm talking about how much it's closely tied to identity, not how difficult it is for the behavior to change. We talking about how how what else would it what else would we be talking about? We're talking about the effectiveness of changing a behavior and then we're saying, well, let's see what's more closely tied to a person's identity or we just bring that up as an irrelevant reason. I thought we're bringing this up tied to Yeah. tied to an identity. I don't think being fat is nearly as closely tied to people's identity as being Republican, right? Okay, maybe not. But I mean, like shaming somebody out of a political belief would probably be a lot easier than shaming them out of being fat. Why? Because I don't think shame is an effective way to change somebody to being fat because there's a whole bunch of other systems that are working against a person to make them fat than systems that work with people's political beliefs. What systems would be working against somebody from shifting from R to L? I it super depends on the environment that they're in. If they for the average environment, not not like core biological functions that are being prayed upon by hyper sweetened and fattened foods. Like it's not the same. I think like you could have like friend groups maybe that are keeping you in a certain political thing maybe but I mean like you there are whole groups that can that is that is the thing isn't it like if you move I think one of the biggest predictors for party affiliations affiliation switch is moving isn't it I guess there's other reasons you would do that but I thought that was like a known phenomenon you move you like oh kids go for college or whatever right if you move I think that's a big predictor of actually changing your political beliefs the people around you are going to inform a lot of the things a lot of who you are changed slowly over time. We saw it with the tech bros and the whole liberal thing. You'll never see that with like being fat. Yeah. People will often drift in the direction that their, as you said, their parents voted, right? So like the family group around them is going to be super important for predicting who they tend to vote for, right? Yeah. So if you're asking them to shift from right to left, you're asking them to not just unearth one behavior, which is a vote, but potentially to unearth all of their social connections as well. Yeah. Depends. But I mean like again there are whole groups sometimes that shift. Like all the tech bros kind of shifted in this weird MAGA direction and that didn't require any of them to abandon their friend groups. Yeah, it's really really hard to shift your identity which is why I'm saying I don't know if I'm convinced that shame is going to be super effective.

Okay. Yeah, the Republicans that's uh that's definitely the group you want to look at tech billionaires who certainly would just stick to their principles instead of picking whatever thing would actually give them the the most money. That's a fantastic example, Destiny. weaponize and utilize shame and they have for the past 12 years and they have all of the they have all of the levers of power right now. So I don't know how what I'm supposed to make sense of that as are they doing this to their detriment even more effective people are voting for Trump because he's shaming them now he seems to be shame it's not about you you seem to think that it's like there's 100 people going into the ballot box and we have to fight over those 100 people but it's not there's 330 million people and like 40% of them don't vote ever and it's a matter of like who can you get to go to the ballot what what what was the number what was the differentiation there that was important box Trump works on shaming and attacking other people shame his own party um if he has to if there are people in his party. He's doing it right now with the MC or he does it to Massie where he does it to the never Trumpers and he gets them excised from the party. So yeah, it seems like Trump literally operates around like shame and fear. Yeah. For him.

So sorry. You think that shame has been the thing that's been effective for Trump and not something else. I think there are multiple things at play, but shame and and seems like it. Yeah, I would guess it is. Yeah. Neither neither of them have thought this out at all. And it's very funny to watch because they're both so invested in like looking smart to people. This could be a fun conversation to have with somebody, right? If you're not hyperinvested in looking smart, this could be just a good conversation to walk through with people. But I think um they're both invested in like not losing and it's very funny. Just have a normal conversation, but they're both like trying to be they're so trepidacious to move forward really given that he seems to be the most shameful and divisive president in the past my lifetime. It's like one of the least popular presidents. Yeah, but least popular because of how divisive he is. Like he might be the least popular overall because the left doesn't like him, but the right love him. It's like 90% popularity. Yeah. Republicans seem to like him a lot like the MAGA people. However, there's a massive schism happening right now where people are incredibly There's no You keep saying massive schism and that is yet to be determined. We don't know if that'll even be the case. Uh, the question for a second after they go I'm gonna read a couple more schism when Trump himself is calling it a pretty major schism. You're right. We don't know. I don't consider truth or tweets massive schisms when it comes to voting. We'll look for the massive it's not just tweets. Come on. It's people burning MAGA hats. It's people calling for Pam Bondi. Has anybody resigned? Bonino is no longer talking about being fired. He moved back now. The conversation about whether we're firing Jerome Powell. So, and I don't think Bondi's going anywhere. and Bobby might leave because he's trying to be nominated to be a federal judge. So, none of that is happening. I think I think um Candace Owens even came out saying that she might have regretted her vote for Trump, right? Is always a wild card. She's insane. She's not like a a reliable person on any side. Increasingly, Joe Rogan is talking very negatively of Trump as well, right? He's very upset about some of the deportations that have been happening and he's very mad about the Epstein files. He's way less money. That's cool that he's finally moving that direction, but if one mean tweet arguing about this, like I I have intuitions on this, but arguing that you know either way on this right now is silly. Um I think my position is on this listen there's there's going to be a lot of people if this doesn't break the Republican party, if the if nothing comes out on this and it doesn't break the Republican party, there's like a lot of soilent green in the US that needs to be produced like ASAP. like things things need to change like very quickly. Okay, if this does this needs to break them or else these people are not reachable. They're like gone. They're disconnected from reality entirely. There is no hope at all. Tweet or if one odd statement by Biden is enough to totally change somebody and it's taken like 6 months of the most unhinged possible behavior from Donald Trump to finally get Joe Rogan to kind of start saying some mean things about him maybe on his podcast. That [ __ ] What a waste of time. Turn out your own base. Okay. So, those people are completely worthless. They're not worth appealing to in any way, shape, and form. Turn out your own base. Your own base thinks it's weird. Your your base Democrats think it's weird to talk about kids consuming and that's why they drown to death. There aren't a bunch of Democrats who are like, "Oh, yeah. W massive W there." Yeah. Those dead kids. Let's go. Like, like, oh, okay. Energize your base, guys. Just galvanize your base.

I'm just saying that your hypothesis is that bullying people is a bad thing. It seems weird that the most bully candidate in like all of our lives history is the one who's had like the most political success in terms of at least like winning, you know, votes. That seems to be kind of weird to me. I don't understand. Maybe he just happens to be doing something else really good and that's hurting him and we can't see it. Yeah. But we've had how many like historical unprecedented events that led up to him winning back the election? because he didn't just win it consecutively, he lost it to Joe Biden, right? And then he won it again with again major historical events that we've never seen before. In fact, every single incumbent, I shouldn't say every single cuz you're going to get me on that one. Most incumbents globally also lost their race, right? Yeah. So, why are we assuming that it's because he's mean and divisive and that therefore it's effective for us to be divisive? Because it doesn't seem seem to be hurting him at all. And it seems to be where's the evidence? Where would I only ever lose an incumbency until Joe Biden? Well, I guess he didn't. He got out while he was still winning actually. Yay. Joe Biden. Jimmy Carter, one of the nicest presidents ever, actually lost his incumbency. Yeah. What are we looking at for Trump to see if the bullying is not working? Like what seems like it's not working? Like how how do we see this as evidence that it has been ineffective in the past? Well, we can look at people running away from policies. Bully the the base, right? So he bullies like politicians and stuff like that. That is true. Which is different from the type of vitriol that we see from the left which is again just like punching at other vaguely liberal people who are not as pure as true. Everybody here but everybody thinks that that's stupid also by the way and this is part of the [ __ ] that I get is like why f focus so much on the left and it's because that's where oh muted I spend all of my time and have spent all of my time my entire life. So yes the right is guilty of all of the same things that we're talking about. But it's like that statement that you just said wait here's can you explain this? I'm just curious. Okay. Because that statement that you just said, nobody on the right would ever say that that would ever say like, "Oh, the reason why I attack the right so much is because I'm on the right more." Nobody on the right would say that. Why are there so many people on the left like that would say something like that? Like because you have a broader coalition who aren't unified around smaller purposes, right? You've got a big tent. You got a big tent party. That's just true. You you got to deal with that. That's you have to that is something you have to deal with. You have a way higher upside in any election, but you also have a downside. one of your one of your core constituencies gets yked by Trump or cut by Trump significantly suddenly you guys are in specific places like oh I take the left because that's why I'm spend all my time at I'm not like attacking you sorry that came off really aggressive but I'm just curious like what what is it that caused this to happen I don't I have I have no idea well you know I don't know who was it that was saying the other day right the loyalty the loyalty uh uh priority basically on the right is I want to hear Right. Sorry. Yeah, I that was basically what I said in last week's conversation, which is the same conversation as this one is that and Eric, I know you know I know you know this because I know that you know height. Um the right tends to prioritize loyalty more as a value. The left tends to tends to prioritize uh self-criticism more as a value. This is a personality difference very broadly speaking in the two sides. And that leads to basically right-wingers being more loyal even as things start to up while leftwingers they'll be more self-critical when things up. And so that it leads to you have like more purity spiraling on the left and you have more circling the wagons on the right. Basically it's a difference in behavior the two sides.

Here's something that I really want to understand because what I would question I've been holding it in for like 15 minutes. Tick. Okay. Quick. Can I ask question holding it in release? So this is okay. So this is about the whole idea of like these edgy jokes especially when they don't land are going to alienate a bunch of moderate voters. specifically people like the Joe Rogan's or these like you know average like you said these kind of dullarded people that do have these huge audiences. My question to you is if these people, if you watch these shows, if you watch your Rogan, if you watch like the Neelk boys, they're making ed. Real quick, guys, we have 12 minutes left on the timer. Uh, I think we don't have any donations, which is totally fine, but if you guys want another hour, I'll probably try to finish this. I'll at least go through another like 20 or 30 minutes of it probably. But if you guys want to donate for more stuff, I've got a full docket still. I've got like a whole Tik Tok thing. We watched the Aerodite like LOL thing after this. her like we got like her Tik Tok stuff, but I also have like the whole VOD from that Tik Tok thing. I was thinking about watching like a decent chunk of it. Okay, but um yeah, there's like I've got a whole bunch of stuff in the docket for today. So, you do jokes constantly. If you guys want another hour, go ahead, donate. You can give subs on kick. You can give subs on Twitch. You can donate through TTS. You can do anything you want. Okay, I'm done.

They're mocking dead kids. They're making 911 jokes. They're making Holocaust jokes. And if anything, it enders them when people are able to cross across like that line to be like, "Hey, look at me. I'm authentic. I'm not as scared to say this, which is something that people were saying was alienating about the left, that they're too purity testing. So why is it that somehow like any amount of there should be any line of edgginess that is going to scare away these people who live and thrive in it? It just doesn't make any sense.

In general, in general, even the edgiest edge boys tend not to love jokes at the expense of kids, especially when the kids are like actively still missing and might be dead. Like people just tend not to like that. I'm not saying that that's like some morally good thing or something that's like defensible in a rational way. This is just like how people feel and you can base that on. This is why this is why we're really confused because you keep saying it's not about jokes but then you keep like centering it on the one good liberal in their mind view and I think I think the broader question sorry I I looked at this clip that somebody linked. Um so she's finally saying it directly and we're just going to get what aboutism, right? It's l Yeah. I don't know why. I don't know why, but then you keep like centering it on like that particular type of joke. I think the broader question about your scorched earth stuff than I have about the joke.

No, but I I don't think Soy Pill's thing was what about this one joke? It was like why can everybody on the right make all of these unholy comments constantly and is seen as an endearing quality. But then on the left like you keep bringing up this one thing but it's anything. You can't joke about anything about the jokes. Can we get an example on the right of an endearing quality comment and compare it? Just find me find me anybody who on the right has gone, you know what, kids is awesome. And then like some politician or some group, some large group of right-wingers went, actually dub that guy. Find me Max Carson in the Republican party. Okay. Then then you're good to go. As soon as you find me Max Carson in the Republican party, I'm good. You you've actually won the argument.

Well, their audience does their own audience. They're target audience, Joe Rogan audience, no audience. I feel like I'm pretty sure I'd seen major Republicans make like jokes about Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Zirka. Yes, right-wing lunatic. I was about to say Zirka. I have a Zirka tweet. Oh, that was going to be for There's like a whole uh William There's a whole Warren Smith versus Timu and Nquentes thing. I had a Zirka tweet for that. But yeah, but also Zirka Mike got cancelled. So no, right? Zirka Mike just straight up got cancelled as soon as they started do doing that. Wes, by the way, Wes is not Republican. Shut up. O, Destiny is a Zirka now. Um, no. Zirka actually Zirka actually risked the kids. Okay, Zirka took it a little Zerka took it out of the realm of just joking about things and disturbing people. Who said when Greta Thurber or whatever about like [ __ ] her when she turns 18 or whatever, like I don't understand. I agree. I agree.

What I'm saying is that their jokes are funnier than they are offensive to their target audience. If your target audience is going to be moderates, moderates don't really like dead kid jokes. Those people make the jokes. Joe Rogan's make the jokes. Andrew Schultz make they're making Holocaust jokes, dead baby jokes, like all still found it distasteful within 2 days. I don't know what to tell you. People aren't super rational. I'm not saying don't make edgy jokes. It's working for them. Hold on. It's It's the moderates. The moderates are working for the making jokes that are more funny than they are offensive. And unfortunately, the timing of a joke matters. Wait, this is obviously First of all, you said never dead baby. It's so funny that I don't think Erdite has any true ability to evaluate comedy. never seen it really, but she can in some she somehow is like hitting this perfectly. Like she's actually getting it perfect and and they're like not listening at all. Jokes, by the way, you said no, the time doesn't matter. You should never joke about children, but these people are joking about dead kids in the Holocaust, dead kids in Chemou. Go watch any Joe Rogan with a comedian on Ed. I should have never said never say make dead baby jokes. I'm saying in general the timing of dead kid jokes kind of matters, right? And when dead kids are still actively missing, people don't tend to like it because it's more offensive. That joke has to be so funny to be defensive. And that's how humor works all the time. I I know you're getting mad about this. This is like before we loop on this comedian and it's different. Let me get my thoughts out. Stop. Comedians will tell you this all the time. I'm not even making up this rule. This is just how it seems. Comedy works. If something is going to be offensive and edgy, which most of us like, it needs to be more funny than it is offensive. It has to be to their target audience. The comedian crowd has literally fallen into the exact same trap that you Destiny just screams the hard. This is what he's doing, right? He might as well just spam the hard repeatedly like 15 times on Twitter and go, "Wait, I thought is comedy dead? Is is comedy dead?" Like this is not funny. This is not funny. This is not funny. That's not funny. That's not funny. That's not funny. It's like not even not funny as in like I'm offended by it in some way. There's It's not even a joke. This is weird. Yeah. This is weird.

You have though where they talk about how being edgy and all this is so important and they won't make fun of anybody on the right. They do the exact same thing, but they'll be as edgy as they can. Like I've been about to tell all my friends a real edgy joke. You know, traies have girl Oh, and they all laugh. Oh my god, so edgy. Meanwhile, Joe Rogan, the king of comedians, has some guy on that does an RFK impression and after saying three words, he's like, "Stop that. That's not okay." So, even the same folly that they're making, you're you're like quoting them as though they're giving you some actual good advice here. But they're not. They're they don't even follow their own advice on that cuz you got a really funny edgy joke about Trump, they just get pain. They don't like it. They want to hear their own [ __ ] And they're probably going to start getting in trouble. In fact, I'm increasingly seeing lots of moderate comedians who are super critical of Joe Rogan because he's not that funny and he's increasingly getting sensitive. So the it's coming for them too. Their own hypocrisy. I agree that that's too soy. We should be able to make fun of RFK Jr. at any time. His voice does sound stupid, but not dead kids. Yes. Yes, there's a difference. But also, just to be clear, the Rogan thing was he was like, I'm friends with that guy. Don't do that on my show. That's like totally fine to just go like, hold on, why are we pretending that's just another inhuman example? If you just want to be like, I like that person. I'm personally friends with that person. Don't make fun of them on my show. There's nothing wrong with you doing that, but just on my show, I just don't I don't want that. Making fun of like his disability. Don't do it. It's totally normal. Difference between making fun of Jun and a dead child. Not a good look. Unless you can preemptively determine it'll be way funnier than it is offensive. Again, thinking about this rather than even talking about Have you ever had social interactions where you have to gauge whether or not the joke's going to land well or not? If you haven't done that before, go outside and make some friends. Everyone else understand you are not socialized well enough to do this. You cannot read the vibe, so you don't get to do this. You suck. I disavow, but this is so true for the Destiny Aerodite relationship. Destiny and Aerodite. Quirk Chungus. Um, I mean, the last one's definitely true. [Music] Uh, I wouldn't say this is true for like unfortunately, as much as I don't like Destiny right now, right? As much as I don't like him, um, and won't like him ever again, he he has been like an entertainer on the internet for a long period of time, to say he has no personality would just seem that be like a totally hollow criticism. Child replacement is the cat. Yeah, sure. Sure. Child replacement in this case is Nick the Spartan. Crystal $5. Great entertainment over the past month. It's gotten me through some hard times. Let's go. Thank you very much, Crystallized. I appreciate it, buddy. That's another hour on the stream. Oh, damn. Oh, damn. Oh, damn. Thank you very much. Let's continue. Calculation to figure out whether or not something will land well enough or not. And unfortunately, in the case of Steven's joke, it landed well with his base and certain liberals who are very angry at the hypocrisy of the right. And it didn't land well with anybody else that he might try to build a relationship with later. And in fact, it is talking about social interaction. That's every single offensive joke ever. It lands well with your group and it doesn't land well with the other group. The only difference is here we're trying to say like, "Oh my god, like that's not true. I dude, that's just not true." Like yes, there's some amount of like outgrip penalty on jokes, but there's also really really funny jokes. Like I I retweeted a Shamu joke making fun of me or I at least liked it. I can't remember. But like dude, you can have jokes that you like that shouldn't be funny. But if people can make the right joke, you can laugh at anything. This is just not true. He's You're just not that guy. You're not that destiny. You're just not that guy. Okay? You can't do it. You can't do it. Our jokes have to land well with literally everybody or else we're going to be offended over it. But their jokes I'm saying your jokes unfortunately in this instance have nixed you from interacting with all these people that you should be able to because you're one of the most effective communicators on the left. You're one of the best. You're one of the smartest people. You're one of the goodest people in politics and you can't interact with anybody cuz you won't stop dead kids is broadly what that means. Completely different if they had liked that joke was the whole point. Of course, I've already said it's subjective. Keep the up soy pill. This is the destiny she can yell at. This is the destiny she can't get his mad at. Okay. This is the guy who's squandering his potential. This is the loser who has 10 viewers. Okay, roughly the same opinion, roughly the same in nearly every

Way in this conversation, but this is the guy. He's uh the lost little boy. He's squandering all his potential.

Okay, you can look back and be like, well, what Destiny wants to do is burn all bridges with Republicans and not be able to talk to them, then he's doing it fine. If all he wants to do is galvanize the left, which he's saying he might want to do, then honestly, I have no complaints. If his goal is to talk to the right and to talk to moderates and to pull them to his side, which is what he's good at, by the way, my husband used to be a conservative, is left because of him, almost like five people every canvas event came up to me who were conservative before they started listening to you. So, that is what you're good at, Stephen.

Years ago. Just can't not emasculate this Nick guy. It's soed up. Yeah, this Destiny guy taught him everything he knows for like 10 years. You being edgy lost. He lost edgy. He lost his election in 2020. Nobody here is reasonably going to say that Trump won because he's mean and edgy. He probably won despite him being mean and edgy.

What I am saying here is that if Steven wants to target a moderate audience, most random thing to assert without evidence about the most edgy guy ever, it's the most random thing to assert as obviously being the case when we have no evidence. What the are we even talking about? He is the most edgy person. He is the most offensive president ever. Maybe that was hurting him. Isn't it possible that people would like him like eight times more if he wasn't like this? Held their nose.

There are people who are held their nose. So you can count the bases of each side. And then there are the people who were movable in the middle. Maybe they all made a terrible mistake in voting for him. But there are people who voted who held their nose in doing so. That it was not the cruelty that they were voting for. That's my argument though is that they can hold their nose and vote for him. And while they're holding their nose, there's a whole bunch of other people who love the smell of the pig. Like that's the problem is he's able to capture both. But that's because on the on the right they'll hold their nose and then the left will go, "Oh no, we're above that." SFO is sitting here like I already explained this to you. Right-wingers are loyal. Okay. They've got like uh I forget there's the the trait there's like the big five traits. Certain traits will make you like more prone to being like loyal even against your own interest and stuff and it's just going to be right-wingers will have more of that just natury people.

No, the left who didn't show up to the vote. The left were like we like oh Biden he's not wanting to all the Israelis. We're not going to vote for him. That's why they didn't vote. Right. It's not because of like oh we're being too mean to Republicans, right? is because we No, I'm not implying that by Oh, god. Wick is on the uh Wick is on the Hassan is bad 1.0 programming, okay? Where we where we pretended that Hassan lost Democrats the election. That's where Wick and left because of edgy jokes or anything. I'm just saying that or I don't know if that was the implication. I'm just saying that this this type of like hyper fascination with if we're being too mean or not is a conversation that only happens fascination. It's not a hyper fascination at least not of mine. I'm not super overly concerned.

Okay, I still can't annunciate your position or articulate your position. Whatever your position is, nobody on the right cares about it or talks about it. And they seem to be doing really well politically. So, I just don't know why we would have a whatever adjective. Is it that we barely we barely lost or we lost by a landslide? Which is it? Cuz I feel the leftist thing. In some ways, I would say we lost by a landslide. In some way, it's both at the same time. Arerodite, I can't be wrong. And you won't call me on it. So, it's both at the same time actually. You It depends on who I'm talking to. Interesting. Okay. My argument is that edgy interesting. I'm not going to I'm not going to I'm not going to comment on that. That's just interesting. Wow.

Jokes can sometimes be politically ineffective. I think the two examples of the firemen and the dead kids joke recently are evidences of political inefficacy. I think it has closed Steven out from opportunities that he would otherwise have access. Don't even say think, just say it has. It obviously has. It like transparently has. Everybody around him has told him this. He is not unaware of it. He doesn't care about being politically effective. Erdite, he doesn't give a He just wants his group. He wants his cult back. That's all he wants. If you're trying to Have you played Red or not? No. He just wants his cult back. He's just going to rebuild the cult. That's all he wants. He just wants audience. He's just going to keep doing his like rage baiting and building an audience. That's what he's going to do because he doesn't care about being politically effective. You want him to be politically effective. You want him to be a good person. That is a pipe dream. You can't fix him. Move on with your life.

Here. Is it about edgy jokes in general? I don't know what we're talking about. Or is it not even about jokes? I literally said I literally said these are my Wait, if this is just conversation about me, then the answer is I don't want to appeal to those people. I I've said that for like over a year. I have no desire to appeal to those people anymore. Sure. And I'm saying that they could damage relationships with certain people, especially with people's relationship damaging or I'm okay with that. If they're going to make jokes, then super disappointing because I think if you moderates, you'd be more effective. That's okay. I like to do what I like to do though. That's okay. That's the whole Yeah.

Okay, I'm going to read some of my super chats, especially for the ones who's given me like a hundred bucks and [ __ ] Then I don't know what we're going to do. We might go to closings. I don't know. We'll find out how I feel. Pondering politics for $100 says, "I'm 24 minutes behind." But doesn't the GOP also try to brand itself as a morally superior party, the party of Christ and Christian values, family values, law and order, free speech, freedom and liberty, real America. Um, they do. They do. It's it's it's broadly CPT at this point. Why imply that only Dems claim moral superiority? Uh because it's about personal Eerite's arguing that and hopefully she hopefully she can wrangle this. It's about their personal view of themselves, right? Desty sees himself as morally and intellectually superior to these people. If you believe you're morally and intellectually superior, you should be able to talk to other people who are inferior to you. Right? If you are better in every way, then being incapable of talking to the people who are lesser than you is a sign of like your own failings, right? You can't control your emotions. You are you're incapable of communicating effectively. And there's no nobody really who's ever said Destiny's incapable of communicating effectively. Like obviously he's a good communicator. He's been a streamer for a long time, does all these debates, can communicate ideas to people. He's just not always sincere when he does.

Um, oh, uh, the answer is because, uh, I think like the Dems, uh, the Dems claim moral superiority on the things that we actually care about, right? We don't care about like all this religious, right? Which is why we don't appeal to it. If we think that we're and I would say with a lot of religious people, if you say, "I don't know anything about religion. Could you tell me about it?" With a lot of religious people, they're like, "Oh, boy, can I I'm going to make you some tea. Sit down, buddy." Right? Like better on treating people kinder. We care about the vulnerable populations. Like we have all these care care principles and values. Then if we fail to live up to those care care principles and values like for example being bad faith and not interacting with each other well in the way that Soyill did with Tally or he's kind of doing with me. She can't she can't let that go. She can't stop poking the Soy pill guy. I think that shows for example a question of like do you actually believe in these principles? And what I am saying is that somehow the left, despite being better at policy, Joe Biden's presidency was excellent. And beside being, I would argue, more morally upright, objectively, not a single left pundit has been charged with lying knowingly to the public. Despite all of that, people find the left so repugnant that they're voting for Trump instead. And I think that that's a shame. And in fact, other people are just not voting at all. And I think that that's a shame. And I think we need to fix it. And I think that this is one of the small ways that we can improve.

Okay, $100 from Alexander Win to say absolutely nothing at all. I love those super the best. $50 from Dr. Adam to say, "I'm a centrist who loves edgy jokes. Who cares? Rich pricks hoard gold like goblins. Weepy women flood kitchens. Minorities turn minorities churn flowing garbage like Puerto Rico's mess. Kids sink in Texas floods. Life scream bait smoke them for their parents sins. Thank you for the $50. 20 from uh Mary me Park to say it's good that Destiny isn't friendly towards a right-wing YouTuber. Streamers don't have to bro. Wicked. Wicking all them donuts tonight. Damn. That voice is where MA wins. Do you think do you guys think experts would care enough to push aside the way Elon did? Okay, I missed this uh I missed this moment earlier tonight. Okay, hold on. Oh god, these two Sherry tweets. I don't think I'm I might not do the first one. Let's let me do the second one. I'll probably do the first one at some point. I don't know what to tell you. You were You were the one good liberal in their mind view. And I know that you resent that. I know that you think that that was bad. It's not that I resent it. It's that it's when I when you're the one that I view as a liberal. That must be later. Hold on. We We probably aren't there yet, right? I think we're not there yet. I was going to watch this, but I I don't think I recognize that exact. They've had that conversation, but this has been looping a lot.

$10 Adam again to say shaming works on individual stuff, identity, fat, or choices. But you understand my position. So, which is Oh, they're works on individual stuff, identity. whatever those are. Um, send to say, "How do you get a nud pregnant?" $20 from Tanner Maxwell to say, "Yuto Utah Senator Mike Lee says, "It's a nightmare on Wall Street in the response to a MAGACO fan." Psych for that, but we'll get to Yeah, they will. I'm praying one day. It's coming. Hold on. Let's see how Donnie Trump slips out of this. No, I got to mullet. You're right, guys. Let's just mul game our way all the way to hell. That's Stop saying mullet game. Stop saying mullet game. Going to be so much better for the democracy. I actually think it's way better to talk about how much more our messaging is while every Dude, dude, Destiny needed to say like nobody knows what a mullet game is, you stuck up piece of like just say whatever it is. Stop saying mullet game. Well, 65 million alligator Alcatraz. I guess that's the way better thing. That's going to hurt them. They're going to they're you should just Who the is standing on the immigrants? Like what the are you even talking about right now? I'm talking about that are really bad, Stephen. And I think you're nerfing yourself. Yeah. Yeah. It's really bad. It's really It's Wait, no, it's not hurting the Republicans because most Republicans don't give a [ __ ] about immigrants. It's horrible. And you have nerfed yourself out of all of those spaces. So, you don't get to go in there and push back on it. So, now other people have to go in and gently saying like, "Don't you think calling it out?" What the [ __ ] did I ever say? And you're like and they're like, you know, I think that it's probably, you know, maybe everything that I said. I have never for a second said, don't be edgy and don't be harsh and don't be mean. I said have to talk to them. You can't nerf yourself out of relationship entirely. My criticism of soy pill is separate, which is why it's getting confused. But I've made it clear multiple times that my issue with you is scorched earthing yourself out of these types of conversion times. But the problem is the entire Republican party has been on perma scorch earth for 12 years multiple times, but you still can't seem to understand my position. So which is it exactly? Have I said it too often or do you still not know what my position is? The fact that it's vague and you it seems like you keep I acknowledge that it is vague right from the beginning. But just because a concept is vague does not mean that it is poant or that we can't recognize when something is happening. You're like a M in a Bailey cuz you don't know where one starts and one ends. It's both. Is this the what is a woman conversation where I'm being like well what is a woman is kind of abstract and you are being like actually meanness is XY chromosomes and it's like it's not and you're like well what is it? And I'm like honestly just enjoying I've honestly I'm like XQC watching the content nuke at this point. Okay. Not really. I'm not even really reacting. I feel bad, but I'm like I'm actually just enjoying. Okay. It's just It's funny. Well, it's something a little bit more ambiguous that's harder to put your finger on. That's what we're doing right now. Okay. What we're doing right now. I can do that for a little bit. I I was pretty transformative with this. We've gone seven and a half hours. I think I've almost doubled up this VOD. Yeah, I've definitely doubled up this VOD. I really want to say this right now. Because it is that big of a whip. Please, because it's ambiguous, we should spend little to no energy worrying about whether or not this is the one thing that's going to set people off and instead put that energy into this. Hold on. Hold on. So, Soy Pill is not paying attention to the fact that obviously when Destiny nerfs his career, he is also nerfing Erdite's career and that is the concern. Okay. When are they actually imploding with this fight? No. No, no, no, no. But it's really it's like nerfing her career, too. and she's she's definitely vouched from to a bunch of people and made herself look for doing it. So, hold on. Have I ever DM'd either of you about this? Have I ever wasted any of your time? Or is it the fact that Wick put a panel together that I came to talk about this? He's going to be like, "Wait, do you are you claiming this is the first time you've ever brought this up to me?" Wait, wait, was the question was, "Have we ever spent time asking if the left are losing the optics war?" Was that the question? Because I feel like a resounding yes. I feel like we talk about more than anything. That wasn't the question. I'm pretty sure we've had an exact panel on like he just keeps being outraged. Is it this? No. This is just like uh is this this is like the atti rage, right? This is the this is definitely the attentfol continues to be a problem. Let's build a bridge. Wick. Let's build a bridge. Let's never talk about this again once we hang up. Okay. Of course not. Of course, we're going to keep talking about it because it continues to be a problem. It It's getting worse and that continues by you to contribute. At least like the at least with the firefighter tweets, that was an adult who's making a decision. There's like some rationale for the firefighter stuff that I can follow and I can be like, "Okay, with the kid stuff, it was just it was just transparently like rage bait." the firefighter stuff. I could get how one, you're emotional, two, you really think Trump's like basically like bordering on like there there are ways you can make that work, right? The whole like when in rise can you actually do something about him? That that whole conversation could have like nuance to it. This one doesn't really seem that nuance to be honest with you. They're supporting the guy who's destroying the country. But unironically, like it's I can see how you can at least there's a there's a traceable argument there that makes sense. That isn't totally self- serving. It isn't just like me fully venting my emotions in the moment of MAGA and the rise of Trump because we are failing to provide an actual alternative to the I just I'm just it's just with the lack of examples. It's the equivalent of somebody coming together be like, I have this hypothesis that actually being tall. The problem is when somebody was giving you the example, Destiny, when somebody was saying, hey, stop talking about 12-year-olds jerking off. Boom. Stop talking about stop kids below the age of 15, especially dead kids. Okay, just stop doing it. You were silent. You basically waited until Kyla started talking. You would not talk to counter points. Counter points. Counter points on this, right? Counterpoints came in. He said exactly what it was. You can't do it. You're not that guy. Stop trying to kids. You can't make it funny. You are not good enough at it. Off. And then he'd take care of his kids. I'm surprised. Okay. It's a detriment to being really good in the NBA. And we should draft a whole team of five, six, and maybe they can do even better. Even though all the NBA guys are really, maybe that's actually hurting them in the game. Who knows? That's crazy. That's crazy because I'm pretty sure there's an entire like field of psychology that talks about how shame is completely ineffective both at a micro level and at a macro level. There's plenty of studies that I'm happy to show you about how ineffective shame is. What I'm talking about here is that we should probably just to be clear that's absolutely Wouldn't it be Wouldn't it be really nice if Destiny could just go, "Yeah, but you don't even have a degree or something like you're not even a psychologist. Why are you talking to me?" Wouldn't it be nice if he had that that out right here? Wouldn't it be nice for him? Not true. You know that shame is an empower like it's an incredibly powerful shape for for human behavior. Like does all shame work all the time? No. When you're talking about stuff like about being fat, these are literally behaviors that are hard to change because the actual notive with policy typically if I depend on what you're talking about 51% of the population, you can't do it. They won't move. They're in group one of his cool jokes. I guess I'm going to hold on. What we're going to do right now is finish my super chats because I got to make money. And gang, we are almost going to break my record again. So, if you want to keep giving me money, I think I need a little like $150 more dollars. Give that money to me because I'd like to break the record and save from sananity.

Okay, $50 from Grassroots Hedgemon to say, "I know for me, I voteed Democrat only because of Trump. In any other circumstance, you lost your absolute act in this election. I'm fine with seeing you lose it again. Suits me. emotionally challenged will always lose 100% of the time. Thank you. Tell him to give another $100 and ask him to say what he would do that we need to win him over. And we'll say it right now. True. Okay. You know what? Go for it. Grassroots hedgeimon. Um prove prove them um foolish and ask them the question. Uh Landon Stewart for $10. Why are they so these supposed moderates calling all the cruelty on the right based funny? They aren't. Do they really care? Does it really exclude them? How do we know that when even Asmin says like black fatigue? $10 from eternal. Did he really say that? Did Asmin say black fatigue? Cuz that's probably one of the most racist like recent right-wing memes that I've ever heard of. And apparently [ __ ] Okay. I would imagine if Asmin Gold talked about black fatigue, it'd be from the uh more what would you call it? More empathetic place. All right. More empathetic place. And that he might joke about it, but then he go, "Oh, no." Like obviously more empathetic. We're like we're, you know, I I think that's terrible. Obviously not a good joke. He'd like do this. Yeah, I realize I was muted. Yeah, I realized I fixed it. Okay. But I also think um I I think there's a reason he doesn't get like caught and called out as much as he should be. Asmin didn't say that. Yeah, exactly. So like he's too smart to do that, man. I I hate it, but I'm starting to see him more as like a he's like trailer park Candace Owens, actually. White trailer park Candace Owens. You're like, "This person's totally," but actually they've calculated their positions to to like maximize outrage and minimize accountability and they're actually doing it like borderline scientifically. It's kind of It's kind of [ __ ] Okay. It's kind of [ __ ] There's some sort of like level. He did slip once with the genocide stuff. It got banned. Yep. Yep. He did. Edgenish that will push him and his audience away, which is ridiculous. Uh if Asmin Gold wants to come and and talk about it, he's welcome to. I just don't know. I don't really watch his content.

$10 from Eternal Cassuma to say, "If these kids died in the Rio from the barbwire, Trump and conservatives would have been like, well, better they got taken out there than voting Democrat are ending up at pizzas gate." Uh, maybe I guess we should figure out how to win. Grassroots Himon did give me $100 to ask uh that question. So, hold on. Talking about back paining. Nobody here is saying that we should have immoral position. We're talking about making jokes. Nobody here is saying that we should like actually murder kids. Nobody here saying we should actually drown people or kill people. We're talking about making jokes. My position. Yeah. My position is jokes are bad. Good job. So why why are you saying is our position that we should do anything to win? I don't understand where that position keeps coming from. Uh it keeps coming from Kyla's position is that you are extremely v uh valuable rather to the movement and she wants to make sure that you're going to have I mean that that seems to be the the the bottom line of her position and and I disagree with some of the specific examples. So, for example, with Asmin Gold, I I don't think that you I don't think anything that you've said or done is what pushed him away. I think he's probably afraid to speak to you because you're much smarter than him and it would be embarrassing for him. Absolutely. Absolutely [ __ ] true. This knew he knew that. Wow. And you'd let him land softly. I bet you if he knew that like if you had some social capital with him and he knew that you'd let him land land softly for a few times, I bet you he would more be more open to talking to you. Particularly, you're probably right. And what you just said is exactly the reason why I will never talk to these people again is because allowing them to land softly over and over and over again and only allowing them to land softly drove me insane and I will never be a part of that again. I don't know what to tell you. So will Dusty disown Kyla after she finally yelled at him or try to have with her. I don't dude come on. I don't know why I don't know why I read that whole message out. I disavow that. That's gross. Alibaba, what what's wrong with you? What is wrong with you? Why are you Why are you thinking about that? Are you okay? You were you were the one good liberal in their mind view. And I know that you resent that. I know that you think that that was bad. It's not that I resent it. It's that when I when you're the one view you as a liberal. No, it's not a paradigm shift. They go because yes, they did view you as liberal. I don't know what the to tell you because I get the feedback all the time. I get you know I get 100 times more feedback on my own existence than you get on my existence. Right. You as you You're collecting the wrong data. They ab I What data do you need other than Destiny talked to these people and honestly he had fine relationships with all of them until he started saying unhinged and then they kind of cut ties with him. Like it's not even there's Erdite is not saying something that is hard to evaluate. He had relationships with these people. He did the firefighter tweet. He lost his relationships with these people. It's so [ __ ] easy to track. Maybe the one you could say or sorry the two you could say is Candace owns a Jordan Peterson. and I think said they didn't want to talk to him anymore, right? But that's like fine. You had the Ben Shapiro in, you had the Lex in, right? You had all of these people you could talk to and you just couldn't be patient enough with them to like maximize on your opportunities, which like if you think that that's a way to be effective or something or if you think that's that's like a if that's a calculated decision, it's fine. But it wasn't a calculated decision. It was just you repeatedly venting your feelings. No calculation, no thinking about the the outcomes. You're just venting your feelings.

I view you as liberal. They just do. Every single person says that you're the good liberal. What the is that money? You're not liberal. When Hold on, when somebody says when somebody says Hold on, no. Wait. We going to play apply this to literally anything. When somebody says, "This is the good woman. This is the good black person." Are they saying that like, "Wow, this is the good minority figure. They must all be like this." Or are they saying this person is exceptional because they're so dissimilar to the rest of the group? It depends on what your [ __ ] followup is. Exact. What the [ __ ] are you talking about? So, I would say for this one, if I were Kyla, what would I want to argue here? You just said that you like Myin because he talks to you. That's why you don't criticize Myin as much because you can always have a conversation with him. Isn't that what made you the good liberal is the fact that you talk to these people and now they don't want to talk to you because they feel like they're giving you a platform and you're like an unhinged loser. But realistically, you were the person they could talk to. That's what made you think that's sorry that's what made you think that my roomm was good. That's what made them think you were good. It's literally your principle. It's the same principle going both ways, right? If your rhetoric entire writer goes, "I'm not the only one. This is there's tons of people like me that will make edgy jokes and joke around and talk to you in good faith. Have you ever met my friend Soy Pill? He's happy to talk to these type of people." All of a sudden, now you're promoting other left content creators. You're getting us more access and you're like growing these sorts of things. So, yes, it definitely matters. If you went, for example, I said, "You're the only good liberal." And you went, "Yeah, I am." Then, yeah, I'd say that you're tokenizing yourself and you're being a piece of but that isn't typically what you're doing. In fact, what we see is people go, "This is one good liberal." And their paradigm has broken because before it was a binary. Before this entire thing was a binary and if there's one good liberal, there can be two. I I want to hear from Ty and I still got like a Anyway, Ty, go ahead. Yeah, listen, you're you're right, Destiny, that that they you are being tokenized in those in those circumstances. They are seeing you as the exception. I don't think it's a fair analogy to compare it to black people or women. These are immutable characteristics as opposed to your worldview. Something that you can logic yourself into or out of, right? So these things are different, but something that maybe to push back a little bit, they do see you as different from the rest. And you are different from a lot of the rest, which is what makes you valuable. And and I wish there were more people like you than there are more people who are who are in the sort of disaffected. You didn't vote for the Democrats despite Destiny being the one good one. So why does it matter? He's not polit uh Erid. I mean, Eridai just said that it was about increasing the reach of like Democrats overall that they would have a place in like the the alt media landscape. That's that's broadly where her argument is is like Destiny was somebody who made inroads in this landscape and then he threw it all away by being an edgy and maybe if you stop being an edgy and just focused on rebuilding those bridges, we would be we would be doing better. Seems like a pretty self-interested argument, but effective you were destiny. Would you have voted for I'm not the Yes, absolutely. If the left was Yes. If the left was was That's why I'm here arguing that we all need to be making fun of dead kids instead of just me and then people would stop handing about it so much because when attack left the left over they'd be like whoa those lefties were going to make fun of their dead kids even more in the next time there's a disaster cuz that's what they do anyway.

Okay. So so Destiny. So the whole thing that I said originally that got everyone uh laughing and up in arms that I said I like Destiny and Ben Shapiro, right? And people interpreted that as oh you like the cruelty, you like that they're both so loud and mean and stuff like that. That's actually not the point that I was trying One second. I'm just moving my headphones. Okay. To draw. The point that I was trying to draw is that I see both of you as really smart and competent and able to go into any conversation without any type of preparation and and completely handle yourself and and and speak for your side and your perspective. Oh, she's never seen Destiny go into a conversation with no preparation. She didn't watch that. She didn't watch that Fentes combo. Okay. Fresh and fit. She didn't watch that. That is what I think it makes you really so particularly valuable. And again, you have the added benefit of not being an annoying woke scold. That really That's fine. But just to be clear, that's a unique trait. It's not very valuable in the current political environment because if I were to ask you to point to other people who are amassing huge value doing that, Republicans don't do that. They don't need to. They haven't really done that. Um, wait, wouldn't you So, have Republicans done that? Not necessarily. But do you think that the alt media figures that have these massive audiences, the Joe Rogan, the The Vons, uh there there are going to be other podcasters, right, that whole podcast circuit, those guys broadly will talk to basically they will talk to basically anybody they think isn't like a monster and they will give them a fair conversation or try to give them a fair conversation. And the right-wingers are the ones taking advantage of it. Wait, so what is Destiny's position? I'm confused. His position is basically like Republicans are mean. I should be mean. I get to be mean because Republicans are mean and it's not losing them elections. So I get to be mean. And by mean I mean I get to tweet about dead kids watching and getting themselves killed. So he's like he's not really I dude he has not been coherent this entire time. Who in the maybe does it but I mean like what is he politically right now? Like I mean like what nobody does this like that's that's a valuable skill set. It's like a w a wandering swordsman in an era of guns. It doesn't matter right now. That's not what politically we're not buying for the same people. But what Kyla said before was true is the the vague the general right, not Republicans, not elected officials or something like this, but the vague general right did give a soft landing spot for people who were questioning and saying deemed as unacceptable from Did Ben Shapiro push you away when he said Arabs like to live in sewage and bomb crap? Did he push you away when he said Trayvon Wait, did he push Wait, hold on. That's like uh that's like 30% of the state of Israel believe that. Is Israel pushing you away? Is Israel pushing you away by believing that [ __ ] Ben is just like Ben is like, you know, moderate right-wing in Israel. Why are we Why are we pretending that's not like a huge portion of them are just like, "Yeah, these people are irredeemable." I Martin would have been 18 if he hadn't gotten like these things don't matter to you. You don't give a You clearly like both. Also, Ben has apologized for that. Ben has said, "I shouldn't have tweeted that. That was wrong to tweet." I don't think he ever took it back, but he's like, "That was wrong to tweet." Of these people anyway. So, why is that at all? Also, wasn't Ben like 19 or 20 years old when he tweeted that very different from being a 36-year-old border like, you know, 36 pushing 40 year old man doing the same thing. relevant when these people make horrible awful dead kid jokes like this is not a who gives a is that a okay so first of all I I never listened to either of the things that you're saying right now um I don't think that cared about the dead kid joke I don't think that Ben Shapiro is a racist person much like I don't think that wrong definitely wrong I'm sorry 100% wrong Ben Shapiro was like yeah no 100% how many Arabs at the Daily Wire you should read his books don't I don't think I don't think Ben Shapiro racist. He wants to pardon Derek Schovin. Do you know about that? How many How many big Republicans How many big Republicans are hyperritical of Alex Jones for being the Sandy Hook was a staged event guy? And wait, how many Republican I don't think Republicans are proud of him for that. Did you just say proud? How many How many big Republicans How many big Republicans are hyperritical of Alex Jones for being that Sandy Hook was a staged event guy? I there's got to be some, right? I don't think there was a ton of, but like realistically, unfortunately, the Republicans have been hollowed out and replaced with a bunch of MAGA populists, so probably not as many anymore. When it happened, I'm guessing there was a big problem I have too. This is this is and there are again people in in my cohort of people, the disaffected liberals, right, who were who were wooed by the center right who are now seeing, oh, the the right has some re not that obviously Alex Jones is not is not a new entity here, right? But he has been he has been uh reaccepted. He has been uh allowed back into the fold in a way that he really was marginalized previously. And yes, the the the far right wait just he was not marginalized reasonably. He was getting destroyed in court. That's why he kind of took a step back for a while. And the And what was one of the ways to save him? Wasn't it am I making this up? Didn't Elon Musk himself offer to buy Infowars or was it another huge right-wing group that offered to buy Infowars back from the bankruptcy court to give it back to him to allow him to host it? Like do you like this is all I'm saying. the different standards of of like who's allowed on on both sides. I agree with you and and and that's what and what I'm saying is that and that will be a turnoff. Again, it just depends on who you're trying to talk to and who you're trying to win over because No, I'm just trying to listen. I love you and I appreciate you. Okay, listen. You're a queen. Okay. But the fact that people like Andrew Tate exist over there. The fact that um like it's like you're having a conversation with me. Disgusting. It wasn't for you. It wasn't for you. No, no, that's Wait, but the point is that it wasn't for you. It was. It absolutely was. And again, so you still voted for him. It was none of the was not representative of my vote at all. But it wasn't enough to turn you off from it though, dude. Like you just don't care. I'm again I'm pretty sure she just said like I can do a protest vote. I can calculate that I can do a protest vote. This I This is what was said earlier. She might have said like I'm not guaranteed going the other way. But is that because of where she lives? I think somebody was telling me that she said explicitly if she had if there was like any question that the Democrats would be winning her state, she would vote with the Democrats. So like this is actually a totally It's like uh it's really important to clear this up actually. Republicans Republicans can have like 10 different pieces. It was at the White House. Once you're done, I have a question. No, I'm saying I'm saying that Republicans can have 10 different pieces on the board and all of them can be or like nine of them can be abhorent like, well, you know, I'm not voting because of that guy. But then on the left, we're like, we have to play the same piece every single time because somebody might turn off some part of the voter base. It's not the same game. It's ridiculous. And the reality, yeah, way different voter base. Way way different is they just stop caring about as much on the left. I want to thank you as much for it. I know. Yes, she lives in a blue state. Yes, she lives in a blue state. she can do a protest vote for Trump without the there being any risk. Give a [ __ ] about it. You move on to the next thing. So I hear you and but again this is this is also like part of the conversation that I was trying to have is like this is true in certain segments of the right and certainly in the in the alt media sphere but those were not the people again and and I don't want to make it all about me because whatever there are other people like me voting for similar and and similarly different reasons but the people that I was following that I was influenced by they were not Andrew Tate supporters at all. They were among the people who were calling it out. They frankly they weren't very right-wing people. They were the sort of heterodox but you're supporting a president whose motion for Romania to free Andrew Tate like these little quibbles over like what exactly you support at the end of the day doesn't matter. That's true. I thought that was I thought that was denied by the administration. Oh wait wait wait I actually I don't know did they if they if they denied it then they didn't do it because they would never [ __ ] they did that. That would be absolutely dis literally despicable. Yes. The man is a rapist. Wasn't the reason you said that you voted for Trump in 2020 was because of like the woke and like the scolding. Well, isn't it really important to say alleged this year, guys? I thought that was really critical that we say Andrew is an alleged. Isn't that I'm comfortable just writing for Trump in 2020. Sorry. Oh, it was 24. Sorry, I forgot you're recently stupid. So you voted for him in 2024 because of the wokeness and the scolding, but now like this scolding is somehow like also has to exist within the left to make sure we don't tread over some arbitrary line of meanness to other people. Like I is that not what turned you off in the first place? I'm not concerned about noary line of meanness. So Phil, the scolding on the left is you're a white man, sit down, right? That's a different kind of scolding. They're not the same. Okay. Well, no, no, wait. Wait, wait, wait. To be clear, the scolding is also Wait, the scolding is also don't be mean to Republicans, right? Not anymore. Not anymore. You have a lot of Democrats right now. I am in the minority. I'm the severe minority. When has there ever been a cancel campaign on the left driven because Excuse me. When literally Al Green got in Congress for standing up and holding his cane at Trump during the uh Republican control Congress. You mean he got censured request that go for I think Wick's got him here, doesn't he? Yeah. Back in 2016, the the whole narrative was these were disaffected poor people. You can't be so mean to them. They're not I'm pretty sure they So to censure somebody, you need like Democrats to come in there, don't you? I think I think for a censure you need Do you need like more votes or something? I'm pretty sure it was their own caucus that censured him. Not all racists. They're not all terrible people. We need to be nicer and reach out to them. Like that's that was the narrative for like years. Let's not be nicer. It's be curious and and Kyla I'm not cur you've told me you have a dumb opinion. I'm not Yes. This is a critical Yes. Alib Baba. There's a critical distinction is when Trump talks he talks to his contemporaries, right? Other politicians. When Desi talks, he talks about voters. He talks about like the core pieces of being a Republican. He talks about like their essence. Okay. Curious anymore, Tally. I don't care. You were curious. And stop pretending that you were. All you do is it's ingenuous. Okay, fine. I'm not curious about you because I've heard these stupid opions you back if you're so Okay, wait. I'm curious. What did Republicans do? Wait, wait. What did Republicans do after? Wait. After Republicans lost Okay, now I want to be careful because it's really offensive because a lot of Republicans believe they didn't lose the election. But when Republicans lost the 2020 election and then they decided to run the exact same say that Donald Trump lost in when Republicans ran the exact same campaign, but the exact same candidate against originally the guy who beat him before. What did Republicans change to win in 2024 to appeal to the moderates on the left? What do they do differently? Frankly, they were the they were the less cringe, less woke side. That is how I think they speak in negatives. How many have they changed? Did they change anything? No. Yes. I'm speaking in negatives because they were they had more vigilance at the polls. They couldn't They couldn't be stopped. Okay. It was too big. I've heard this term before. Too big to rig. It was too big to rig. It was too big to rig. Okay. for people who who voted out of resentment for the left and held their nose to vote for the right who are not conservatives who are not MAGA and the resentment overensure. Okay, but Dems voted with it. I of the population and that's fine. What' you say? The resentment was over what? The left over what? Over what the like the direction is the culture on the left. Sure. What is the culture on the left? And they were so obviously they were not Come on. Come the on. Wait, we know this answer, right? You guys aren't it at all. And I'm not saying that you are, but you know what the cringe culture of the left is because it's what the right shows you. That's the difference. It's what the right shows you. I'm sorry. All these blue collar workers are being chastised in their real life by their fellow co-workers about you don't think Leah Thomas Instagram. They're on their Instagram. If they ever go to college, the problem Okay. The problem for Democrats is when they go, "Oh, but like when somebody asks one of these politicians, they say, "Hey, you don't actually think like like fully a grown, you know, 20-year-old

"Born male athletes should compete against women in college, right?" And the Democrats are, well, you know, there's kind of like an argument and, you know, the performance, the performance increase isn't really that much. And right, there's that soft defense that was left over and that was exposed for a lot of people. I feel like Kamala. So the issue was there was no strong disavow of previous positions, and without a strong disavow, while the other people are pointing at you and saying, "Hey, Kamala still has this position on like student athletes or something, right?" Or, uh, trans athletes. I don't even know if this is an actual example that applies. Kamala didn't come out and go, "No, no, no, I don't think that." She just kind of ignored it. So she wasn't trying to offput her, put her base off, right? So Republicans were able to put a bunch of these positions on Democrats, and Democrats didn't come up and go, "No, no, no, no, no, that I strongly disavow that position," because they didn't want to look kind of hypocritical. I think Gavin Newsom was the guy who sort of broke the broke the glass ceiling on that a little bit and was like, "Yeah, that trans athlete stuff, that was cringe. That was, we shouldn't have done that." Right.

Anyway, they're experiencing it there. They're experiencing it in primary and like all through like public school education, and then they're going on their phone and they are seeing it, right? Not just what Republicans want to show them, but leftists are also championing this. You have fought leftists on TikTok. You were canceled in your career. You understand what the cringe is. Now, to be clear, I would argue, and this would be my argument against Tally, is that your principles should matter more than whether somebody is cringe or not. Your principles about what you believe in. Hold on, Tally. Hold on, Tally. Hold on, Tally. That should matter more always than who you vote for. The issue is that that is not true for like 90% of voters, and that's a problem.

And so my question to you, Stephen, would be, have you become like more abrasive with some demographics of people because it was making you go insane to be the token liberal, like you said, or because you think the approach will actually be politically effective? I think the approach to energize your side and to seem like you could actually stand on business for something, which regardless if you realize it or not, that was actually your main complaint with Biden is that he, it felt like he wasn't standing on business with stuff. I think that that would enter. I've heard that he's referring to the um, I don't know why he's putting that on Aerodite. I don't know if Aerodite weighed in on that, but he's been watching Pisco, right? Pisco and the Live and Learn guys. He's watching some of that stuff. Energize the base more. I think that if if Biden, when he had his debate with Trump, and he started going senile, and instead halfway through the debate, he just pushed the, you know what, you're, and he just did that for a half hour, I think he would have had better performance and people would have voted. Not you're, you're, he should have started calling him a like repeatedly. That would have been funny. But again, I hope we all see how like that's, yeah, that's a breakdown of civility politics, but that's like that's like an adjacent attack that you can do on somebody, right? That's like him hitting a contemporary. The contemporary can hit back. It's a huge, it's a huge difference for. No, you're right. You're correct. But these are not the same thing, right? As when we have what we are not advocating, don't go after Trump. We're advocating, don't go after Trump voters, especially their children, especially after them. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, okay, like obviously, obviously, yeah, there you go. Be a little, just be a little bit more effective when you go after them. That's it. That's all we're asking for. I'm not like, don't make edgy jokes. All right. I'm sorry. You're not saying anything right now. I don't know what this means. Just be a little bit more effective when I don't even know what the what that even means. Adam, give yourself some shackles because you're too socially to understand what you should and shouldn't tweet. So, kids under 15. Connor, Connor gave you the easy cheat code, bro. Kids under 15, not for you. Talking about dead kids, not for you. Okay? These jokes can be made. They can be funny. You are not socialized well enough to do them. Okay? Just like when you used to explain to your audience during your Red Pill arc that they've never talked to women, so they can't do negging like you do. They can't talk to women like you do because they don't have the social awareness for it. It's just like that. You can't talk about kids. Stop talking about kids. I mean, go crazy. Like, if you're if you're talking to the type of vote people who are calling into the Dean Withers show, go crazy. Make fun of those people. That's blood sports. That's just feeding each other's bases. These are people who are immovable on both sides, frankly. But yes, you, you, you, and it's not just to you. People, I think, and and and frankly, I think you're good at this. So, I I don't know if I share the same, I have criticisms. I guess I don't know if I share the same criticisms. I do think that generally you meet people where they're at with their energy. I think that if people are being reasonable and open in good faith, that you're pretty good at that. You, I agree with Kyla. You, you clearly and you talked about this openly on your streams, you built up a resentment of going on onto all of these conservative shows and stuff and and being nice, and then basically they get to frame it, right? They get to frame the conversation. Can I ask, Lety, finish? Let Ty finish. Go ahead. Well, no. She hasn't got your point. No. Well, yeah, because you, the point is that Polly doesn't have principles. And the reason that I met you at the point of, "Hey, how do I convert you?" Is that what you get from that? She doesn't have principles. Yes. She literally because she understood January 6th. She understood all the. Okay. The soy guy. The soy guy. That was actually a little [ __ ] up right there. That was a little [ __ ] up from him. Okay. He's, that was, I don't understand why he decided to cut in there. I, you always see this and like I've probably done it, so I don't even know if I can complain, right? It's it's difficult to know, but it can feel really weird. Creators sometimes they'll go on a panel like this and they'll only interrupt people who are adjacent or smaller creators. So like he has tried to go back at Aerodite, but Aerodite's interrupted him way more than than he's done vice versa, right? But he's fine interrupting this person. Trump did. And after all that, what policy am I going to demonstrate to Tally that I'm probably guilty of it too, though. You don't want to like immediately put somebody off that you could like have a collab with or whatever. It's whatever. I don't know. This is why you should vote with the Democrats. Look at these hurt people. Look at all these people. No, actually, it's vibes and cringe. So, why the should I waste any time? It's completely pointless. That's the point. You shouldn't. You shouldn't. Once again, I I don't know how many times I should reiterate that I don't think that the Democratic Party apparatus needs to be vying for my vote or anything like this. Okay. And but then you agree that I should be mean to you because it's pointless to try to convince you. Oh, just don't be a condescending prick because maybe Tally will never change your mind. Well, maybe Tally won't change her mind, but maybe a whole bunch of people that would otherwise potentially be warm towards the left is going to get turned off because you're being so smug. Yeah, there's a lot of people who don't turn them off right now. Watch the way that Steven has talked to Tally this whole time and the way that you have talked to both me and Tally. Good stuff, bad cup protection. You're literally being aggressive and mean. This is not the same thing as being smug. Smug is sitting back and smiling. He, he really should have hit that point way earlier. He, it took him three hours to get to that point. Okay. You keep lecturing me on how it's weird on how just bad or it's ineffective to be smug and talk down to people. You've tal, you've been smug and talked down to me multiple times. He easily, easily, easily could have brought this up so many times throughout this entire conversation. And thinking that you're smarter and then talking down to people. I'm being aggressive and rude to you. These are not the same thing. And in the case of Steven, when he's been talking to Tally, he has also mostly been meeting her energy and couching a fair bit of his language to try to understand her. I'm not saying that you don't get, I'm not saying that you don't get to go shut the up. I'm not saying that you don't, uh, but I will say this is like Aerodite's better content, right? Where she's like bordering on LCA with the, uh, like when she rages out, she kind of like rages out. Okay, this is like her way better content than any garbage like speaking to a mirror or some [ __ ]. It's just, it's way better for her. Don't get to go gloves off on people. I'm not saying that you don't get to go scorched earth. My criticism to Steven is he's too quick with it and he loses opportunities to go into these spaces where he would be even more effective. That's my criticism. It's not, don't make someone standing in front of the door. I actually don't want to hear his voice right now. I don't want to hear his voice right now. Don't mute him, Wick. This is how this, this is, I'm sorry. The condescension is just weird and, uh, I don't know. Good to you and I have been aggressive and rude. That's what I've been to you. Soy pill. Okay. But that's fine. You're, yes. I think I, part of the reason that I, I think a lot of people, a lot of my chat right now is saying you're kind of turning them off. They don't like you. They're not going to subscribe to you anymore. How many chat doesn't vote? You want me to open up and check? They're leftist. They don't vote. Why should we appeal to people who don't vote? These people, all my, they don't vote. You want me to open it up and check? I don't believe it. You're saying your chat doesn't like me. I don't believe you. I'm going to fact check that. I'm going to fact check that. You just said your chat doesn't like me. They're all smart. They're leftists. They don't go to the box. They don't have any power because they don't fight. I'm really glad that your own. Wait, I've never, I haven't gotten a single impression that this guy's like a leftist or a. Is he like a communist? Like, what are, what are we doing? Sad because this has been her best argument in a while. Yeah, if she, if she was arguing against Destiny, she would have looked pretty good here. She could have pressed a couple of these arguments. She would have actually like, um, gotten concessions and side agrees with you. But what I'm talking about is appealing to people who might not vote for you. That's who I'm talking about. Okay, speaking of smug. Okay, Tally, finish your point and then this. I, yeah, speaking of smug. Next. Skip. Skip. No, we skip. Sure. Getting done. I'll make it quick. And I said this on the last conversation with Wick too, when he was giving the the story about his uncle. I actually, I think we're we're straw manning this too much. So, I, I being nice is not because if you're mean to someone, they're going to change all their principles and change their vote. I, no, I don't know anybody who changes who changed their vote based on who was nice or mean to them before they went into the voting booth. That's not what I'm trying to represent when I say that people voted against the left. They didn't overnight change all of their principles. There are a couple of things going on. People are very resentful of the culture on their left. They feel that it is detrimental to themselves, to their community, to the to the the country as a whole. And so, yes, they, a lot of for me, like I said, I live in a blue state. My vote was not going to change the election. People don't have to like that or not, but it is just true. And that was what I was trying to represent with my vote. That doesn't mean that I changed all my principles overnight. But to Dev's point, if you keep people out and you shut people out and they and they are embraced, even if it's by evil, sketchy, nefarious, uh, actors, people are going to change over time. And now a lot of my views and opinions have changed over the four years or whatever that I've had this ideological shift, but a lot of my core principles have not. I'm still very much dispositionally liberal. And to Dev's point, there are other people that. Oh, I actually don't care. I'm sorry, Tally. I literally don't give a being positionally liberal. And to Deb's point, is a easy down and scolding Soy Pill while he wears his silly hat is really fitting. Thank you for the $100. Okay. It's It's just frustrating cuz Soy Pill is such an effective communicator and he is good at what he does. And it's frustrating. It's actually offensive to me being frank that you won't just be like, "Yeah, I am being smug and I'm being smug because I'm not saying I'm not being smug. I am being smug." And why are you throwing it back at me like this guy? If this is his YouTube channel, this guy's got. Oh, maybe this isn't him. Soy pill streams. Would this be? Oh, this is him, right? Oh, wait. Holy. Wait. Oh, I feel like. Where's Queen? Is Queen around? Is he still listening right now? Wouldn't there something? I feel like is this not the guy that you got me? You like showed me some weird lore on this guy, didn't you? I feel like I don't know if he's around right now. I feel like I got shown some weird lore on this guy that this guy used to make like videos a long time ago and then he had like some kind of weird. Maybe I'm I'm confusing this with another guy, but this is him right here. The soy pill, 115 subscribers. I didn't think it was him until I saw if you go to his home page, he's got soy pill streams and it's this guy with the little hat or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's the the hat or whatever. Like one live stream right here. How should men approach women? Debate on Wick TV five months ago. Damn. Interesting. Being smug and just like I think you're being a little smug. But my point is I don't think it's a bad thing when when I smugness is a bad thing. I mean, it's a little subjective. What I, yeah, it's a, it's a little bit of a fine with you. No one likes smugness. Yeah. The issue is that people on the left think that being mean to people is really politically ineffective and then they do that to themselves and they argue about themselves about it. And then people on the right say that being mean to people is really politically ineffective. But they only say that so that they can convince people on the left that so the people on the left aren't mean to them. Meanwhile, when they go back to their right camps, they're the meanest in the world. That's why people will pretend to be mad about like dead kid jokes or whatever, and then Alex Jones will literally build a career on questioning Sandy Hook victims in a way. I'm pretty sure Alex Jo, like people don't. He's like trying to make this all about Sandy Hook. And also Alex Jones has paid a major career price for the Sandy Hook stuff, right? And his content in general. Like Alex Jones is not a mainstream political actor. Are you comparing yourself to Alex Jones? Are you saying you want the career prospects of Alex Jones? Like, what the are you saying? I think Aerodite has no interest in you having the career prospects of Alex Jones. way that was so traumatizing to the parents that it's what literally drove them to sue him and bankrupt him for a billion dollar plus judgment. So somehow we like get mind by people on the right saying, so yeah, this is just completely disingenuous. He, it literally him, it destroyed his studio, like he got picked up by the, but dude, he like this, like crushed him. Oh, no, trust us, like when you're mean to people, that's really what turns him. But like the Tally, Tally is a like, is living proof right here. I, I thought your first vote was in 2020. You abstained voting in 2024. I know you voted in 2024. So truly, there is like no bar for you. Like, like Trump could have a woman right in front of you, and you still would have said, "Well, he's actually just not listened to the fact that she was like, oh, it's a blue state, like I literally could vote for whoever. I don't know, man. The trans folk was like way too much for me. Like, if I'm going by voters like that, like what we should do is if we win in 2028, okay, we shut down, we shut down alligator Alcatraz and we open Camp Crocodile and we just start shoving whatever Republican we can in there, and then we laugh at him on TV until we win 2032 because they run out of people to vote. God, I wish Trump was a little closer to who Destiny says he is, just so we could see Destiny and alligator Alcatraz. That's it. That's all I want. Okay, that's all. I disagree with this completely, and it's, it's because the left and the right do actually operate off of different moral principles. They aren't the same thing. They aren't the same. By the way, Trump is in so many ways like actually a fascist and and pretty evil. I'm just, I'm just saying I wish he just he could go a little, a little just one step, one toe over. Okay. Agree. I think they are the same types of people. I think we get, we lose ourselves in a whole bunch of like attempts to analyze both. I think more or less everybody's pretty similar. Familiar with any of Jonathan Haidt's work? I, I don't think, I don't think he realizes his logic is nonsensical, right? He just wants to be cruel. Um, no, I don't think he realizes that. I think he broadly gets like, he broadly just gets full-on support from people. He doesn't realize that the logic makes no sense. He doesn't realize he's made like horrible arguments this whole time when he tries to say, "Oh, well, Alex Jones, you know, built a career off of Sandy Hook." He doesn't realize that Alex Jones doesn't have mainstream appeal, doesn't have mainstream understanding from people. He gets collabs with like Nick Jones, sorry, Nick Fuentes, and like almost nobody else. He kind of has some some nods from alt-media personalities. Joe Rogan kind of gives him cover there, but he has no mainstream appeal whatsoever. He has no mainstream access. So that's that's how Alex Jones is. And is saying you shouldn't be that. So the Alex Jones example doesn't work at all. There's a couple other arguments he's made tonight that just are so like, I like he hasn't thought them through whatsoever. Yes. What, what I listen. Hey, listen, like the the right has an average like slightly lower. We do got to wrap it up. So, um, uh, I just think it's politically ineffective change. If you want to galvanize your base though, yeah, it is very effective for galvanizing your base. And that's if that's all you think that we need to do politically, then honestly, that's the end of the conversation for me. But if you want to pull people towards the left, that's actually something that we think that is effective to do. I think that like being condescending and smug is ineffective. I think edgy jokes are effective typically, but they need to hit the target audience correctly. And if they don't, whoops, l not good. Okay. I think it's clocking to you guys, okay? That we need to stand on business and we need to make fun of people while they write more. And I think until somebody creates a successful. Listen, I'm glad Destiny said it for all of the people out there who, I actually don't know who this applies to, but I'm glad he said it, okay? We need to make Republicans understand that we can make fun of them by laughing at their dead children. That's what's most important. Okay? Galvanize the base by laughing at dead children. It's awesome. It's just awesome. We laugh at the dead children. Then we laugh at people get mad about the dead children or sorry about us laughing at the dead children. And then we talk about a 12-year-old jerking off for no reason. Then we talk to some father about his 12-year-old daughter and whether or not she got smashed by her crush. Okay? And then we win the 2028 election, guys. That's how it goes. All right. We and laugh at enough dead or we what? Laugh at dead kids or children enough. We can win 2028. That's the platform. Um, again, no moral qualms with that. You want to go for that. Okay, that's by all means. That's a bold strategy. It's a very bold strategy. Personally, I don't think it's going to work, but you're going for it, you know. Okay. 59 NBA team. I'm going to assume that being tall is probably makes you good at basketball. I'm going to assume that being mean to people seems like it makes you good at politics. So, I don't think we have any evidence that, uh, Trump is a, you know, a 6'4 mean boy. I think that we've got a lot of god, like unironic, like the worst set of circumstances, like [ __ ] what he didn't die is [ __ ] so it just happened to be so the fact that he's like the meanest, most divisive person ever is just a coincidence. And it's not a coincidence at all. That's not what I've said. I'm saying it's not important. Mean to peers, mean to contemporaries, mean to kids. No, nope. Didn't say that either. But it hurts them. It hurts them more than it helps. It hurt them. It's there's, we don't have good evidence that with moderates it hurts them. We don't know. And what I'm saying is we do have psychological theory to suggest that it's probably not effective. But we have a moderate right here who said that she voted for him in 2024 despite him being the most divisive and mean president of all time because she thought the left was worse. And not do we not. Hold on. Do we not. Hold on. Hold on. Stop. Do we not at least take some introspection, some reflection? Wait. I didn't. Wait. I truly didn't know that. I love hear that Trump is better than us. I didn't know that. Hold on. Wait, Kelly. So, your issue is you thought the left was more mean and divisive and nasty than Donald Trump. It's not mean. It's not about. It's obviously not about meanness. No, I never made the point that it's about meanness. It's about the. You said it a million times. What is the culture? That's a nothing statement. The culture. What does that mean? It's not a nothing statement, Stephen. I'm sorry. Fall into what is a woman argument right now. But I'm sorry. These concepts are vague but still are meaningful. The last identify here. I'll describe it for you. I'll describe for you. Okay. So, you remember like in your 2022 arc when you were kind of pushing back on the left a bit and then they completely obliterated you. Not not rhetorically, but like you lost all burn all the bridges. Yeah. That's the culture. Devils. Okay. But none of that got me even a micrometer closer to voting for Donald Trump. Right. So something different is happening here on the other side. Right. Right. And so being effective sometimes, and I'm just saying in the way that you guys are being divisive at times, I think it is less effective. You can take advantage of people's discontent. Right. It's not just being divisive. Okay. Wait. So what part of the culture of the left was it that drove you away from? I'm just curious. I need to hear from the rare moderates. This is this is the the the problem too because like nothing that I could possibly say in a sentence or two is going to satisfy anybody because this is a process that happened over a long period of time. But it's the it's the purity testing and the spiraling. It's the. Okay, I'm going to Wick whenever I see him next. Okay, if I'm on a panel, if I if I talk to this guy, I'm going after him over these window sounds. That's like the 11th one. This is unacceptable. Uh, he taking screenshots. He's taking screenshots, right? That's if you have your desktop audio on, that's the screenshot sound. Basically, anti-racist racism. It's the. Okay, here. Okay. So, when you say when you say the purity testing, right, did it bother you that for Donald Trump, like if you didn't carry like water for all of the instinct that he was saying that they would like try to excise you basically from the [ __ ] party that everybody seemed to fall in line behind like Make America. They didn't do that to voters. They didn't do that to voters. They didn't do that to voters. They didn't do that to voters because I've literally never been a part of that. That's That's what I'm also trying to. Donald Trump would take Bernie Sanders voters, right? Donald Trump does not ever denigrate voters. He doesn't try to do it. He'll say radical leftist. He'll say, "Okay, maybe radical leftist, the sick radical left or something," but like he will he will still he'll take the votes. Absolutely take the votes. It's like you, you could see my vote as similarly to not voting. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah, I got you. I got you. Also, there also just so I can understand who who just hated Trump enough that they that they decided to vote against him, but but still are completely disaffected from the left. And so their vote if somebody were to somebody were to clone him and bring him back to life and he would run for a political party. Since he hasn't had a party yet, you don't know what it's like. You try out the the the new party just to see what it's like because the the other two have been bad or? Yeah. Yes. Yes. And I would vote for him that. Yes. I'm glad that you're accurately representing the situation. Go. Last Friday night. That's it. Epic song. Epic. Last Friday night. Hey, if you can hear me, please. [Music] last. Okay. As a treat. So, Tally, I mean, before before we got pulled into this, you and I are having a side conversation, and I brought up, for example, as as one of a thousand possible examples, cuz you're right, it is a death by a thousand cuts thing. There was that like in in 2023ish there was that arc where you had, um, trans people claiming they wanted to get into lesbian spaces, and you being a lesbian, that probably bothered you a little bit. Me possibly. And like, it's instances like that, but just so many of them over the course of say, the past five years, that probably caused you to turn away from the left. And I, I understand that. I get it. However, I, I just don't understand why to that though. What was my response to that when you brought that up? Well, you said it didn't bother you personally, but that it was like a type of thing. I think that yes, I do think that like radicalized some people, but yeah. No, for me, I think that's like playing this video for the 50th time. Amazing. Hey, I'm sorry. The video never gets old. That that video is evergreen. If you got a problem with that, then you got a problem with me. Like very bottom of the barrel. I don't think people are are being raped by trans lesbians. Yes. I don't think this is an actual issue. It is in this bucket. Sure. Yes. But Sure. But it's but it's because of the larger issue. So, more of the issue than like trans lesbians on lesbian dating apps is the is the left-wing idea that like isn't real, right? Right? And that women and men are actually entirely equal, uh, neck down, and basically neck below actually, depending on who you're asking, because there are people who will go on to Piers Morgan and stuff, famous people on the left, and will say that yes, actually, you could have a giant man if he announces that he's a woman. The very say from audacity to soy pill, and women who are dying of sepsis now because abortion is like outlawed. I got to check out this cherry tweet really quick before I get to the end of this debate. I wanted to see it. I missed it. You're collecting the wrong data. He continues to dismiss her by falsely asserting he knows his feedback better than her. Aerodite is forced to show her feet to calm him down and get her point off without being view is liberal. They just, every single person says that you're the good liberal. What the [ __ ] does that mean? You're not liberal. When, hold on. When somebody says, when somebody says, hold on, no, wait. We can apply this to literally anything. When somebody says, this is the good woman, this is the good black person. Are they saying that like, wow, this is the good minority? They must all be like this. Or are they saying this person is exceptional because they're so. Tons of people go, this is one. Just showing, just showing toes real quick, guys. It's fine. It's fine. It's fine. 20 states or whatever. We've all been there. We've all been there. You would have to like, I, I don't think the women did I play yours? I didn't get a chance to play yours, Ry. I, I not unfortunately. This is actually like fun content. But, um, we just watched this this debate. It's three and a half hours. So did the whole thing to finish and it took, you know, 8 hours to stream. So dying of sepsis from from abortion and stuff is actually a bigger a problem as people try to push it to be. But no, I don't think that trans women identifying as women is a threat to women. I don't, I'm, I'm not a crazy anti-trans. I actually didn't think it was that much of a slog. I actually didn't, I really didn't mind it. I was a little tired, more tired near the end, but it wasn't like a massive slog. I, yeah, I thought it was fine. Thought it was fine. Thought it was fine in general with like, do you think all the abortion bans are hurting women? Um, I think that move away from the left was there are a lot of lines times when shame is effective. Um, I do not think that it is most of these times and if either of you, Soy or Steven, would want to talk to me about it more, um, we can so that it's less quibblesome and we get less bogged down in, um, different criticisms for different people. Thank you for being. There's a great book. I'm going to be super quick. There's a great book about shame. So, you've been publicly shamed. Eight hours of not so airday content. What a treat. Just wait for tomorrow, Ozel. When I'm going to do this three hour and 45 minute vaudeville of her talking to people on TikTok. Okay. You ready for that? You ready for that? I don't think you're ready for that. Are you? I don't, I don't see why. I'm, I'm Steven's business partner for one. That might be important. I'm sure I'm sure that's what you call yourself right now. But I, no, we own 50/50. Even though, even though it is the case, no, we own 50/50. Even though it is the case that he's intelligent, I don't believe that you are. So, I would never join horses with you. I mean, that's totally fine. It's just, it's a little bit interesting that Gigi came at us for using the slurs. Hold on. Hold on. One at a time. One at a time, guys. Can we please play some sad violin music? I don't, I'm just looking for moral consistency. No, you're not. You're trying to flip. Am I not looking for moral consistency? How's it going? What's Aerodite's husband's Discord? I don't know. He's in. It's Big Nick or something. He's in my Discord, I think. Or he was up until recently. Okay. Big, Big Nick, I think. Big, it was like Big Nick energy or something. Yeah, he just DM'd me and asked if I was a. What was your answer? I felt like that was, it's kind of. Well, I, I haven't responded. I'm, I'm nervous. I've never been. I don't know what to say back. Okay. H. All right. I just felt it was kind of relevant. You're looking at like Aerodite right now. I don't know. Yeah. I, I don't know why he. Interesting. Okay. All right. I'm finishing this by saying if you think is bad, you should probably be worried about anyone glazing the out of Steven. I don't even know who Steven is. GG, we're not talking. GG. GG, we're not talking about you. Hold on. GG. You don't think Destiny is cool? That's fine. But like, I don't even know who that is. Intelligent, so we're trying to talk. This is like basically my Discord, to be honest with you. to to Shikica, like Gigi, you're irrelevant in this conversation considering. I'm sorry, but you can't have this conversation. The only time you listen to her is when you're not. No one, no one expected Tashika to be like this based, honestly. But like, hold on, listen to her. I mean, I don't know. I don't want to speak for her. Actually, aren't you friends with Mercedes? Wasn't Mercedes like, tell her not to. Hey, the text say otherwise though. Yeah, I mean, and you can pull up the text, do whatever you want. Um, and I, you can show the most recent text where I was said I was really disappointed in you and how you're being a fake person. You can do whatever you want. Are you being a snake right now? I'm not being fake. Like, like I even in the hot tub, I was telling everyone in there that I think you're cool and that I love the [ __ ] out of you, but like obviously we're going to disagree on some stuff and that's fine. But actually, quite literally though, Tashika had, I'm, I'm honestly trying to recruit Tashika because she hasn't. Do you guys know what the base take is? Can you guys guess what the base take is? It's a very base. What, what's, what do you think Aerodite's most base take is, Ralph? What do you think? I'm listening to your stream to listen to this clip. Repeat that. Sorry. Oh, what do you think, what do you think the most base take for Aerodite is? Um, well, what's the context? I just joined. Oh, don't worry. But I'll just, I'll just hold on. I'll, I'll present really quickly so you can watch the end of this and then I'll play it. Okay. Some base take. So, waiting for you to join. There we go. Tashikica, can you come back because we're trying to talk to you. I wasn't listening. What happened? Wait, Tashika, you're kind of based. We're trying to recruit you. Based in what? I haven't said anything. You said that Steven was intelligent. That is low-key based. That is the most based. You said Steven is intelligent. That is based. Oh my god. He is. You don't, you don't debate and not have like a high level of intelligence or like an understanding of how those types of conversations. Also, you think that was bad? Just wait. What if I told you his job literally requires his intelligence? I wouldn't deny that. What if I told you that Steven regularly has said that Kyla or not so Aerodite is really good at debate and does a really good job? Okay. How would you? What if I told you that Steven says that Kyla is really good at debate and does a really good job? What if I told you that Steven regularly has said that Kyla or not so Aerodite is really good at debate and does a really good job? Okay. How would you feel about that? Is he God? I don't. Is he God? I don't. Okay. What? I don't care. Oh, okay. Do you think I like? Do you think I value his opinion on who is good and who's bad at debate? Well, it seems like you value his opinion on a number of things. So, it would be weird that you would. Why would I say that I value his? Why would you respect him as a debater, but you would be like, I don't care who he thinks is good at debate. Duh. Pick me behavior out of everything. Why are you? Dude, I, I take it off the top of the turnbuckle. That's a good clip. That was a good clip. Power bomb through the announcer's table immediately. Okay, only option. Power bomb through the announcer's table immediately. Okay, that's it for us, guys. That's That's it for the stream. I, I'm just joking. I don't think I'm going to actually watch this entire thing, but we'll see. We'll see you tomorrow. I'm not totally sure. Two streams in a row you've done those to your fan base. You hate these guys. Holy [ __ ]. What? Oh no, the stream was done. She's doing the Nick tweet. What? What's the Nick tweet? Oh, Destiny is going viral for being edgy again. See a lot of people judging this tweet harshly, but to be fair, you have to be very high IQ to understand Destiny. His humor is extremely subtle. It's the, yeah, it's the, um, Rick and Morty copypasta. Yeah, this is funny to me because four days ago I made a throwaway comment saying, "I'm bored of Destiny's annual rage bait tweets and his fans hoarded to inform me that about the obvious hypocrisy hunting." Well, he's really owning the the right here. They are totally owned by him. Yeah, it's like totally. It's just obviously like, it's just sad. It's honestly sad to engage with. It's just sad. Pushing 40. Okay. Um, oh yeah, there was one more. It's the Drew Pavlo thing. Oh, yeah. Just I don't think I don't think we covered this at the end, but yeah, he's basically like, who is Nicholas DiOrio? Looks like Augustus Gloop from Willy Wonka. I have a Wikipedia page. I've achieved things in the world. I've been in, uh, I've been featured in the New York Times. Meanwhile, Nicholas is a fat anti-semitic slop tuber. This guy called Nicholas DiOrio anti-semitic. He called Nicholas DiOrio anti-semitic. This guy, this guy is like the the head Shabascoy, and you're calling him anti-semitic is so up. That's a joke, by the way. That's a joke. I saw Perry got a shadow from Pisco. That's pretty cool. Oh, what is this? Listen, if Trump and Epstein were underage girls together, that's one thing. It's a moral gray area, but they cannot be this gay about it. True. Yes. Sounds more like they're each other. God, gross. And that's gross. Okay. Oh, I think did I heard that Pisco pulled this video up on stream? Did Drew Pavlu fake getting robbed as political propaganda? I think I wish I had faked getting robbed because then I would have still had my wallet and I'd be thousand dollars better off. Why you dodge is offered a debate if you're so confident. Huh. Superman content tomorrow. I think so, but we'll see. We'll see. No, no, no. I think I thought I think Pisco might have pulled this up or something. I got told Pisco like pulled that tweet up or that thumbnail up or something, but I don't know. Anyway, let's see. Is there anybody online that we like? There is.