Transcription
I saw an interview with Elon Musk recently where he talked about with AI and super intelligence that we may get to a point where we don't need money at all and money doesn't play a role in our world.
The natural state of the free market is deflation. He must see the productivity gains around which those exponential productivity gains would lead to exponential deflation, right? If you had money that wasn't cheated. But because money is cheated, we live in that debt based system that has to essentially stop that productivity flowing to 8 billion people on the planet and concentrate that wealth into very few hands.
An AI today is the slowest by far it will ever be. If you have a vote in a democracy, you're a liberal democracy, but you don't have a vote in your money that's stolen from you and it's it's way more than the taxes, then do you does your vote matter at all?
>> Jeff, hi. How are you?
>> I'm great. Yourself? Welcome to London.
>> Thank you. Um, I saw an interview with Elon Musk recently where he talked about with AI and super intelligence that we may get to a point where we don't need money at all and money doesn't play a role in our world. I'm trying to understand the bridge between now and there. If we're going to have incredible level levels of productivity, how is everything still going to be more expensive?
>> Um, good question. actually really good question because I think that's the thing that I can't I haven't seen somebody in the existing system including Elon Musk talk about this in a in a cohesive way. Um and and he must know that the natural state of the free market is deflation. He must see the productivity gains around which those exponential productivity gains would lead to exponential deflation. Right? If you had money that wasn't cheated. But because money is cheated and or I'll set a different way because we live in a debt-based system that you in a debt based system that lends money into existence with no cost of money. It has to create more and more money forever. So your our perception of what money is is broken because we live in that debt based system that has to essentially stop that productivity flowing to 8 billion people on the planet and concentrate that wealth into very few hands and Elon is one of those very few hands.
Well, some some people listening to my new version of my show might not have read your book and I encourage people read Jeff's book. It's incredible. It's probably a good good starting point to explain to them about this def the nature of money and why technology is deflationary and the debt based system breaks what should be a life where we uh work less and everything's cheaper faster and better.
>> Yeah. And this is going to for if it's the first time you're hearing this, it's going to like you Peter.
>> Yeah. It's going to it it's going to challenge every mental model you've ever had because we can say if the natural state of the free market is deflation, right? And that is true because entrepreneurs have to create more value than what was there before and we only use the things that are more valuable. So they fail in the market if they don't create more value. So the free market is a perfect system whereby it it's an infinite game. Everybody wins. entrepreneur wins a little bit, you win and the prices fall as a result. Now, in that world, prices fall to the marginal cost of production. Economics 101, prices fall to the marginal cost of production. So, so lines of code like your calculator app fall to zero because entrepreneurs compete more and more. You still gain value of your calculator app, right? But it's free. Now you have to ask what is a line of code creating other lines of code which is where AI is go going right that's free too and it provides and and that's why you can see this exponential explosion of productivity driving things to free um conflicting with a debt based system that we've always lived in where essentially since the 1600s where where money was lent into existence a central bank lends money into existence with an interest rate that that system must expand money forever. And what can you say quite simply from that from what I just said and this is what I explored in in the book the race of tomorrow these two systems would clash into each other we would believe in the system that we've always lived in and we would give it more strength through our actions and that would divide the world right effectively that's the and and you weren't going to slow down technology right technology was because technology is is when you say just technology it's the things out of our brain s that we try to solve to create more value. That's what the free market is. And it's exponential in in nature. And the other thing I explored in my book um is if you folded a piece of paper once, twice, three times, four times, you can only fold it seven times. But if if you could imagine if you could fold it 50 times, that piece of paper would reach from here to the sun. You know, you know that. And it still blows your brain. It still blows my brain.
>> Yeah. It still blows your brain.
>> I still want to do it. Yeah, I know. You can only fold at seven.
>> But but the pro and why I use that as an analogy is everyone I talk to guesses 2 in and I get guessed 2 in the first time I thought about that what it would look like. But an exponential pattern is something we can't grasp. So if we have an exponential pattern driving the free market and productivity and deflation that should be speeding abundance to all of us. Um, and we can't understand an exponential pattern. It means it means we're in the thick folds today, right? Fold 36 moving to fold fold 37. Yi seems like nothing for a long time and then it seems like everything. We're in the we're in the steep steps of that paper folding. And an AI today is the slowest by far it will ever be. And that means that productivity driven from it should serve you. But in a debt based system, it can't in a debt pay system. And there is nobody in that debt pay system that can solve that riddle. Right? There's no politician. There's no there's no single there's no person. It's a system problem and we are the system. So um that's what I that that's what I explored in the book and and so you could read the book today and you could it was written seven years ago. You could see it's like you had a you it's like you had a time machine because you could see the future. And it was a very very simple premise about a structural change that was driving into humanity that most people would take aside in the old system and blame somebody else within the old system because they didn't want to take responsibility themselves.
So in some ways is AI exposing this conflict even more in that we seem to be heading towards this kind of singularity this uh you know when Elon talks about robots being able to create robots but with super intelligence we get to a point where there won't be enough work for the 8 billion people on the planet yet we're still going to have the debt to service. So this kind of exponential growth of abundance versus exponential growth of debt and there's going to be a clash
>> there. There all there has been there has been for a long time. We're living through that clash and people are measuring that clash through the old system is what's h what's happening. So so the debt's been insolvent for a long time. The debt's been insolvent for actually probably forever because if you allowed the free market to work, productivity flowing to the people, the debt would have collapsed immediately, right? Because because deflation cannot be allowed in in a debt pay system. So people conflate those two things. Econ economists conflate those two things. They say inflation deflation's bad without saying from a system. Why would why would productivity flowing to you naturally? So you had to work less and gain more forever where you where you got more and more forever and ever by the competition of 8 billion people on the planet in service to you. How could that be bad? Right? It's bad from a system that won't allow that. is bad for debt. It's because the debt blows up. And so these two things are almost inverse images, right? One's trying to drive pricing down and and a lot of the things that used to be in GDP like your calculator app like a whole still gain value from them. Now you have to price other things higher to make sure all prices go up from this other system. You have to create scarcity from a debt pay system. And to to and and remember it's there is no such thing as 2% inflation like the system should be deflationary. The system should be so today's deflation rate if you measured productivity without all of this nonsense is probably between five and and 10%. Meaning if you have inflation on top of that that's how much is being stolen from you. uh per year. Ask where does that where does it where does that stolen money go?
>> goes to the assets.
>> Yeah. And not just to the assets. Why do you think Epstein looks like Epstein? Right. Why do you think the whole political class everywhere is in and every all the entire system is still look looks like that. Where does that money come from? That system has to look like that because it's all that money is stolen from you, right? It's stolen from eight billion people on the planet and transferred into a bunch into a scop that has to look increasingly like that. And when then that in that scop you have to control people to hold them in that scop.
>> I don't think we've got to that level you and I in these conversations before where now you're connecting the something like Epstein to this
>> it so so we we haven't because I always wanted to take the high road.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. And and so I just I just
>> But they're not hiding it anymore.
>> Well, so so I'll bet you just about everybody that's watching your show right now, this will feel really hard to understand even though it's the most simple thing, right? Natural state of the free market is deflation. If you can't dis disprove that, right, if you look into that and and go down to the sand and you know that's true, it means you've never lived in a free market, but you believe you do.
If is is it so is this a problem of having digital money controlled by government
>> digital any money
>> controlled free market for money would this happen?
>> Um so no it would it'd be messy on the way through but but but any so if you look at gold right gold centralizes um and then then governments change gold so that the derivative instrument on top can still uh can still allow inflation. Right? So, so gold has always done this same thing and then when it breaks there's typically global conflict wars go back to say we're never going to do that again and start it again. Right? You just have to start the most simple thing in the world. If the natural state of the free market is deflation and spend some time with it, right? Really spend some time with it. Then then you have to realize you've never lived in one and all of these other things come into focus. they come into it has to look like that. Not and you you there's bad people,
>> but I try to go thinking if I'm if I'm inside that fight thinking it's this leader or this leader or this leader and they're still on that same money, how could I solve it? How could anyone solve it?
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I was listening to the All-In podcast yesterday and they were talking about some quite scary numbers. Social Security uh running out by 2032, the um the increase in the average increase in the debt of 2.5 trillion a year per year uh until 2030. Um and all of them, all four of them are talking about this is starting to break.
>> Yeah. But it felt like that for a long time, Jeff. It it's so if you look at and we'll get into Bitcoin in a second, but if you look at Bitcoin just bounded by energy as decentralized secure protocol bounded by energy, then you can see it's measuring what I just described. As long as it stays decentralized and secure, it's measuring prices falling forever. Now it'll be volatile but all of the people arguing from the other side 2.5 trillion 8 trillion COVID response it's just another there has to be more things more fear coercion control to keep you more more surveillance to keep you in that system because it's not natural the natural state of the free market is deflation we serve each other right with that though do you think they do you think they always know or do you I think their responses are natural responses to them trying to make balance the books as best they can.
>> So, so if you start again start with the first principles of those two things, a debt based system can't allow deflation. Natural state of the free market is deflation. They're they can never go together. They're opposite systems. So this that system can't balance the books.
>> No, but they try and keep that system going like as best they can.
>> In other words in other words, steal more from you. Yes.
>> Hire more people, more things to steal more from you.
>> Less less rights, higher taxes.
>> How do how do you how do you make that palatable for a population? It's two sides of that equation. You have to create us versus them. This side has to be right against the other side. One side, one side moves to socialism. um because because that that side um is looking at all of the people who don't have assets and they want a piece of the pie. So they vote for those people that will promise them free money for nothing and it expands. One uh one side moves to fascism to be able to to pretend they were in a free market, right? But it's not a free market. And so and that divides society on both and it's always happened. It just we re uh we replay the system when we go to war and then we we start again.
>> But how much do you think it's organic and how much do you think it's planned?
>> There is no they right that that's why I start from a system system level it's a now there are people will who will find if you had a system based on theft
>> and we know that system is based on theft. Yeah.
>> Right. Now, that's a hard harsh word because most people don't know that. Um, but if you had a system based on theft, how could you resolve the conflicts in the world from a system based on theft that had to worse that had to increasingly increase the amount of theft because the natural state of the free market is opposite. So, so it's unre it's unfixable from a system for um or you could say it a different way where we are in with technology where we are with how fast technology is moving a debt based debt based monetary system cannot work without concentrating all power in very few people who tell you what you get.
>> Okay. And who are those? I had Simon Dixon in here and he he told me that the asset managers run the world.
>> Yeah. And and I actually like Simon. I really like Simon's stuff. And and so but we look at it from different different paths. I that fear of creating another they removes our own ability to do something about it.
>> Okay.
>> Right. And and so and and that's what that's what the system will will want you to do. Um here here's a way to uh I don't know. Let's let's go to your next question instead of Bitcoin.
Well, so I mean is there an you talk about there's an inevitability that this fiat system will collapse?
>> It it it it's not natural.
>> It's not natural. But when Yeah. When does it collapse? And how will we know it? We know it's collapsing. Is it always collapsing or is there is is there a collapse? Is there a moment you're like, "Okay, this is we're done."
>> So So again, it collapses when we stand up and make it collapse. Typically when we stand up and make a collapse is when we lose trust in that system because it extracts so much from us that we can't and and and that's why it typically that system reverts back to the same system and because we go to war thinking that there's a resolve
>> it resets
>> from resets and then um World War I, World War II um same thing resets through time and then and then we build nice monuments to say we'll never people again build instit institutions that end up driving essentially enshrining theft. And all of those institutions are part of the next thing that makes it collapse. And when people start to see it, they start to there there's probably no one watching your show right now that when if they just looked at that from our first principles can't see it in them. They're mad, they're anxious, they're fearful. But but what ends up happening is if if you put in it's not you, it's this person, right? You can get people to bite on anything because you want to believe it's somebody else. Just remember, would you would you allow allow a monetary system based on debt, which is this studio, all the restaurants downstairs, the entire world, every banking system. Would you allow allow that from that system to allow deflation? And you wouldn't, right? So, so we'll finish this podcast, you'll go spend money in that system and think it's somebody else, right? And and it's us inside that system that that we have to opt out because there is no resolve from that system. But but the more we're in this, the more mad we'll get. Right. The more the more I'm going to solve it, right? Whole bunch of people will Yeah, you're the guy and the other person's the bad guy because they'll want to believe it's not them. H So unless we have I mean at the moment the UK is not in good shape.
>> Where in the world is in good shape?
>> Switzerland seems okay. Uh, and certain individuals are doing okay and certain companies are doing okay. I'm doing okay, Jeff. Um,
>> but I've kind of opted out like you. We're going to get into Bitcoin. Um, but we see these constant fights. We move from election to election. It's existential crisis to existential crisis. If the Dems win the next election in the US, it's going to be an existential crisis for America. If JD Vance wins, it's going to existential crisis here in the UK. I mean the Labour party are they're going to go from having a parliamentary majority they're predicted to get four seats in the next election. I mean that is unprecedented. The Conservative party are predicted to be the fourth biggest party. Uh reform have been leading the polls. They didn't exist a few years ago. Rert Low announced yesterday that he's going to well he launched his party. He's already polling at 10%. I think everyone knows something is wrong. They're looking for an answer, which is why these new parties appear and grow really quickly. But unless one of those comes out and says, "This is the problem and this is how we solve it," nothing gets solved.
>> That's exactly. So, every single uh voter should ask it should ask their politicians, is the natural state of the free market deflation?
>> It's the only question to ask.
>> Only question. And if they can't answer that and if they say or if they say yes, then ask them how are you going to resolve this, what are you going to do to resolve this? Because if if the people watching your show look backwards and backwards again and backwards again as things have gotten worse and worse and worse, their lives it's and and they're they're leaning in and giving more strength to the system that's stealing their energy faster and faster. they'll realize that this election too won't make any difference. There has to be always a bigger crisis from a system based on theft to keep people in fear to be keep people locked locked in. And I'm not saying all of the party leaders or all the people aren't there's not good people but but the foundational thing is a different question. The foundational question is thing is that system cannot be resolved. a debt based system. You can't fix a system problem from the system creating the problem.
>> No, none of the political parties are having this conversation. They're having conversations about debt.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. The RERT low put in a bill into parliament to uh ban QE in the country. They wanted to ban that.
>> So, so, so think what that would do. Now, a lot of people will vote for that. If you ban QE in the country, you will go into deflationary depression.
>> Yes.
>> Every bank will fail. Every all everything will fail. If you go into if you um now on the other side
>> because it can't service the debt
>> because it can't service the debt. The debts are the debt the debt was insolvent from a again against the free market. The debt's insolvent by the time it's started. Now if you had exponential productivity which means exponentially pricing falling prices that debt gets more and more expensive until it fails. Right? So the debts, all of the money in the world, all of the money in the world, the makebelieve pieces of paper that people are pricing in and saying, "What? What more debt?" It's all gone to money heaven already. I'm stealing from uh from Larry Leopard is is money heaven. But uh um it's already gone to money heaven. Now, it's only a perception that you allow it to be debased more and more and more without asking the question, if it was debased more and more, wouldn't that lead to greater surveillance? Wouldn't that lead to greater centralization? Wouldn't that and and why is nobody talking about the most simple thing, the most simple thing in the world? They're all talking about this nonsense uh above above the first principle.
>> Perhaps some don't know.
>> Most don't know. Yeah. Yeah. They don't they just don't actually know. They haven't read your book. They haven't studied money. They just are responding to the decision the the things that put in front of them every day as a politician or the decisions they've had to make. They haven't actually. But if you if you had that politician in front of you and you had them answer that question um is the natural state of the market deflationary and maybe they didn't know but you explained to them they suddenly understood it. What do they do next? typ typically go back to so and that's why so you know this how many times have we talked about it and it and it it takes a long time for it to click right
>> yeah I think I mean I think it's I understood it the first time I read your book which was six seven years ago I think I think when it pretty much first came out and as I said I went back and I text you I went back and read it again because it clicked in a different way
>> y
>> I think it clicked when I became more of a beneficiary from the I I I I laughed and I laugh well you and I traded some texts laughing because because each time I've gone on your podcast you've said now I get it.
>> Yeah.
>> And and but again it's such a deep concept. It's so the depth of it because you have to realize you're essentially you're letting go of a lie one finger at a time, right? And you don't want to let go of that lie because it served you well from the other system. M
>> so we we we we want to okay yep that's true but it can also coexist with this other system and we just go straight back to what we do all the all day long we go straight back to the centralized media centralized coercion centralized everything else and from that system we're we're measuring everything from that system we don't know we're stuck in that system and the the thing that's so easy that the the free market is an infinite game you it says one thing. You must provide value to somebody else to be able to get paid and the result of your actions uh of of providing value or in service of everyone because then those other people compete with you to provide more value
>> and prices fall faster and faster.
>> I I think the reason it clicked this time, Jeff, and I'll probably tell you it get in a couple years it's clicked again, but I think it really clicked this time is because I've got close to politics. I've got close to the levers of power to the point of considering do I run as an MP and then I'm trying to understand well if I do based on what I know about money and economics my limited understanding and like what what are the things I could do to fix this and all I've I've seen the the negative side the inf the loss of our rights in this country the infringement of our rights it's I it's embarrassing we've got this real authoritarian streak at the moment
>> yeah I'm I'm watching all over the world But it's here. It's it feels fast. Like the things they want to change, get rid of jury trials, digital ID, infringements on our speech. So we've got the all these infringements on our rights. We've got this massive increase in bureaucracy. But it's bureaucracy which is creating new industries, bureaucratic industries, HR, accounting, legal.
>> We've got minimum wages going up. And the problem with the minimum wages is that it's creating wage compression now in that the lowest amount of money you can say if you collect trolley at a supermarket is very close to a lower middle class wage now. So I'm seeing that and so I've been looking at all this and saying how do you fix it? How do you fix it? What are the things you can do? And I often come back to oh it can't be fixed.
>> So that's
>> or I can't fix it. So, so you can um and and you you might be perfectly positioned to if you wanted to take leadership, but then be honest that now would would people vote for you being honest and it maybe not this cycle because they're not ready for the honesty.
>> Um that's what happened with Blly,
>> right? And they were ready for honesty, right? And they were ready for a a bold leader who would drive Bitcoin into their country. And if you look at that country, if I just went back again, the difference to watch to watch the UK go one way.
>> Yeah.
>> And to watch El Salvador go the other way.
>> Um it's it's remarkable. I've been there four times over the last four years. And four years ago, you were there too. It was a scary place.
>> Very scary place.
>> Now
>> it's safe.
>> Not just not just safe. this center of San Salvador is like it looks like a beautiful uh um European city and people kids are out playing in in the streets 11:00 at night families are around it's it's stunning it's absolutely stunning and so but again what ends up happening is he took a bold step because he couldn't do anything from that other system and he went really hard to try to rip it all out. So, if somebody's listening to this and you're mentioning Bitcoin and we still live in a world where the vast majority of the people when you say to them about Bitcoin, they still think it's some kind of scam, some kind of, you know, online scam, some internet currency, they don't understand. They don't understand how it's foundational to repairing the problem of debt and inflation in our country. What's the easiest way you could explain that to somebody?
Um so so ask ask them to ask what is money first right and all money is is an abstract concept of our trade and so if money to you if that abstract concept of our trade between humans can be manipulated then what would happen to humans trade right everything coming from that that trade would be manipulated and we know for sure how we define money pieces of paper that can in be infinitely printed um is manipulation. So what would you expect if you saw technology which should should provide abundance and you saw infinitely more pieces of paper which was manipulation of our time and you were measuring from that you would expect to see everything you see. So, so I type I take think about kind of four personas in understanding this and um and and I know for me you know too cuz you went through the same thing and you go through this path and you also were in the other system and you you move you move systems and you see your life getting better
>> exponentially better
>> exponentially better which should be all humans on the planet.
>> Yeah. Right. So, so let's take four different personas. And a persona like is a almost a marketing word for a group of people who act like this, right? And so a persona, you don't know that money is broken. Um, and you're measuring through that money to to you, Bitcoin just looks like another scam, right? To uh that there's no use case. What is this thing? I can trust institutions. I can trust the politicians. I can trust because you have no idea that money is broken. And and and by from that measure for you what will come back, right? Your belief will fe right back. You'll be watching the same media believing that something's not and you won't have no idea. It'll be true for you. Um and your life, if you had assets, those assets will look like they're going up. If you didn't have assets, it'll look like you're losing faster and faster and faster. Both both things, right? Even if you had assets, you will not be able to build walls high enough to fight what's coming. Right? So on both both of those people within that cohort would believe that they were right and they would see Bitcoin as a as just a distraction. Take another cohort of people or persona. they they see Bitcoin as a um as a technology and and technologies are typically win or take most until a new technology replaces it. And so from that viewpoint, you would be easily look at crypto, blockchain, everything else. And there'd always be another better technology. And what you would be doing from that standpoint is you were try you were trying to get out of this system. you knew something was wrong and you wanted to get rich really quickly with all of the uh with with all the other you saw other people get rich, you wanted to get rich really quickly, too. So, you take more and more risk in this. And what would the market serve you? This market would serve you a whole bunch of scams to be able to do that, right? and they would be promoting more and more scams
>> and and from that viewpoint um and and then from the other viewpoint the the person who didn't understand money they would look at both of these and say the whole thing's a scam right now you take another cohort of people or another persona it's an asset right it's the best asset but money is still broken on top of that asset and if you're if it's just an asset to you and money is still broken then then that asset has to be centralized faster and faster and faster and that would lead to the new kings of the world with the same model that we've always had. Then there's a fourth group persona and those those people who see it as a protocol and one thing about protocols is they're winner take all. They don't come and and and so there is no second internet and they come in layers and they add more more and more functionality and from that viewpoint you would realize okay this this thing this thing is new it's never existed before and if you had a decent open decentralized secure protocol bounded by energy and it stayed decentralized and secure it wouldn't m all of the other noise none of it would matter right because it would be repricing the world over over a long enough time frame. The only caveat is it stayed decentralized and secure. If you understood it was a protocol and protocols come in layer layers, you would move your time to the protocol and you would help build the layers. You would be constantly on the defense of what other nonsense is being said over here, right? To be uh that's going to try to attack this because it destroys the entire foundation of everything we've ever knew. known and replace us with something better. But you would move your time and and for that person too, they would see everything getting easier. They would see the relationships that people understood that too and they would see thousands of people that also were building on a protocol where it's not just an asset where it's money where and they would start transacting in it. If you just take each of those four personas, each one would be true to every person, right? If you tried to convince, if I tried to convince somebody right now that my version is true as a protocol and their version is they still believe in institutions and money, good luck, right? But I can tell you that in my world and what I'm seeing and the um how fast this is exploding, how fast it's becoming money around the world. Um how it's and it's removing this power, how much risk it faces too because this power wants to stop it. But you can actually just move your time. It's it's funny that point on time as well because I think it's easy to look at Bitcoin from the outside and think, "Oh, that's you you got in early, you got lucky. It's they they they value it based on on the money itself, but what they miss is the time and how it allows you to make better decisions with how you use your time.
>> It's it free market is deflation.
>> Yes.
>> Um we have exponential productivity gains.
>> Yes. Meaning a system that can't be cheated will drive those exponential productivity gains to you and everybody in that network then and forever forever as long as it stays decentralized and secure and you have so people are inside the jail cell right yelling at their captors giving more strength giving more of their energy that's stolen from them for the same people
>> and they can just move. So those exponential gains are being transferred to those who are
>> part of a network on Bitcoin.
>> Part of a network on Bitcoin
>> and those and those people are not just holding it. Those people are spending it. They're driving circular economies that this is what's happening in El Salvador. This is what's happening in many regions around the world that you visited. I visited. It's early still. It's so early still. Um, if if most of the people on on your podcast haven't heard this and they think they know about what money looks like and they've never asked themselves, what is money? Imagine how early we are.
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And with the exponential gains we're going to be getting from AI which is coming now. I mean I've seen I mean you must have seen everything that's happened with the SAS companies over the last few weeks. It almost feels like the last couple of weeks we've seen some kind of acceleration. So do do you know that even so if people went to my Twitter I haven't been on Twitter for
>> I know what you do with your Twitter.
>> Yeah. You saw what I did.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Okay.
>> Jeff B.
>> Yeah. Exactly. So I I trained an AI agent that on all my content took me less than a day on all my content. A thousand thousand podcasts, my book, whole bunch of content that I I wrote and I trade an agent and just that agent is on Twitter. But if for people who want to say see what that looks like, read the post on why I did it because I don't think people realize that their time is inside these systems. Um, and they're fighting and yelling with just bots, Russian troll farms, this farm, this farm. And each person sees themselves through this thing and they're fighting more and more within this system that's extracting their time and energy. And so I I did it as a as and I wrote why and I wrote why on my my uh my website and and I'm on Noster on some a social network built on top of Bitcoin that I'm just spending time with people I love doing the things I love. Well, people are arguing with my bot, right? And it's trending most days, right? It's
>> But it's funny because you you know I own a bar.
>> Yeah.
>> I sold it.
>> Oh wow. And that the reason I sold it is because operating that bar I have to do it from the old system. I cannot do it from the new system. If enough people came and spent Bitcoin in there, maybe I could. And we we do have some Bitcoin. People have but not enough,
>> right? And so in that system I am fighting inflatory cost rises uh raises in uh um minimum wage
>> regulations
>> regulation changes the cost of living crisis mean people are going out it's I'm I'm trying to push water uphill to keep that thing going
>> and in doing that it's taking my time and I'm not increasing any there's no like gains in prosperity or wealth for me and I and I you know about 3 4 months ago I went why am not doing this.
>> Yeah. And so you're a rational actor and so what think think about this from a a rational actor in in the free market will do the best things to provide value but if they can't they fail or they close up and they because they couldn't provide enough value right and and so if if government takes more and more and more
>> Mhm.
>> Then then what the businesses do is they automate faster, right? Because if they don't automate faster to make prices uh come down come down, then us as users won't use the service or the bar or anything else. So now you have this conflict that everything turns into central government everything. and and and that central government and and the manipulation around regulation and and who is who fa so so I I don't think most people would know this on your show but regulation favors a monopoly right there can't be a monopoly in a free market because the margin created creates the opportunity for people to attack the margin and create more value so so monopolies want regulation
>> yes they pretend they don't But that's why that's why it's one big club and you're not in it.
>> What's his name? George. What's the comedian who says that?
>> George Carlin.
>> George Carlin. Yes. One big club and you're not in it.
>> But the Bitcoin club is a small club and you can be in that.
>> You can be So you can be in one big club, one ever growing club that's going to move to 8 billion people on this planet.
So So what is the So what is the intrinsic link then for you between AI and Bitcoin? Are they is this is this a a marriage?
>> Well, so so how I look at it is just AI is just an extension of productivity that was naturally like you go back to that paper folding. AI has been on the exact same trend for 75 years. It's just when the first fold felt and everybody the thought thought that if you fold that piece of paper once it'll feel like nothing. If you fold it twice it'll feel like nothing. And so there's this overhype and now we're in the bigger folds. And so AI technology broadly, our innovation comes from standing on the shoulders of great people who went before us and error correcting. And we're now error correcting at a rate that is so fast. And that's going to lead to faster and faster an exponential explosion of error correcting. And then the AI are going to merge with robots. And the robots are going to compete with robots and that's going to provide faster and faster faster and faster. There's going to be things along the way. You'll hear people say, "Don't worry, we're going to tax the robots." Right? You laugh, but wait till you hear it because you're going to hear people you're going to hear Elon Musk say, "Don't worry, we're going to we're going to give you universal high basic income." Where does that come from? It comes from the monopoly created by money. Where does a universal high basic income come from? Because the natural state is you don't need the money because prices keep falling forever. But you have to have something that can't be manipulated. You have to have Bitcoin to allow you to see that. But he's also talked about the age of abundance where he thinks money, we won't need money. And I struggle with that concept because money is a measuring stick. So at some point down 100 years from now, I would say we will still probably need something energybacked, right? The Bitcoin that resolves that too. But um you sure won't need very much, right? That abundance will flow to you, right? But you the energy prices will follow that trend. All prices will follow that that trend. Actually, if you measure in Bitcoin over any long enough time period and you measure energy prices in Bitcoin, if you measure house prices in Bitcoin, if you measure anything in Bitcoin, you'll see the trend perfectly clear.
>> So, but is AI creating a an accelerated um imperative to understand and adopt Bitcoin?
>> Both sides. Yeah. Both both sides. It's creating accelerated insolveny of the debt and and more not just insolveny of the debt, but an awareness that the debt was insolvent a long time ago and now it's just blatant lies.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. And and blatant control now it needs surveillance. So why why it doesn't feel like a democracy anymore? And it did feel like a democracy. Ask yourself this. It if you have a vote in a democracy, you're a liberal democracy. But you don't have a vote in your money that's stolen from you and it's it's way more than the taxes. Then do you does your vote matter at all? All your I keep the the reference I keep pointing to is that all you're voting for now is the pace of change
And who it's pointed at?
>> Well, you're who gets to who gets to sit on top of the broken money.
>> Yeah, >> that's what you're voting for. You're not voting for change. voting for your side gets more of the broken money than the other side.
>> Yeah. And more a socialist view or a more fascist view.
>> Um so if people don't spend the time and go and understand Bitcoin and choose to join that system, they're going to get increasingly >> mad squeeze go to and it depends where they are. If you're if you're at the top of that system, you're going to gain more and more control. You can see in Elon Musk, some people celebrate him and he's gaining more and more control out of essentially the techn the technology today own the means of production and the means of production um are the things you use. And so why I created that AI pot and I've been off Twitter for a long time because the means of production is farming me inside a system to to to essentially take my voice thinking it matters. That's the means of production in the other system. So now you now you have a banking system and a technocrat system both vying for control of 8 billion mines on planet going through that system.
So, so if we had, I don't know, if we had a potential leader for the UK right now, somebody who could potentially win an election and you wanted to course correct them. So, I know you think you need to operate in this whole system. You don't. You need to understand this like what what are the things they would do? Is it kind of what Bouay's done or is it Yeah.
>> Yeah. But so you have to start with by the way try to if you were in a debate in a if you were running and you were in a debate with a bunch of talking heads have them try to answer any of these questions right and realize that a system problem can't be resolved by the system problem and you'll hear uh uh there is no they'll they'll move the needle they'll move it somewhere else but how do you solve that problem from that system. And and so but but if you realize how true that is, then you should stop giving it any time, right? And if you wanted to if you wanted to run, now that's the problem. The general awareness of what we're talking about is so shallow. And why is it shallow? Because they're looking through the media of the centralized system trying to divide them. So, so you don't they have no idea that they're stuck in a system and they're being manipulated in that system.
>> So, even what Malay is doing is >> still same still same system.
>> Same system.
>> The only the only leader today who stepped out of it is Belli.
>> That's fascinating. And so if somebody is listening and their minds are being blown right now and they're thinking, "Yeah, I don't want to be in this system anymore. I my groceries are going up. My wages aren't keeping up. That I can't afford a holiday this year. I'm increasingly stressed. I'm shouting at the TV." The only real advice is you have to step out of the system.
>> And what I would say is learn first. There's so many scams out there. where there's so many charlatans and everything else. So learn first learn from people who have the proof of work whe So Bitcoin people say proof of proof of work and proof of work you can also see in people have they been saying the same thing for a long time what have they done and what does it look like and and so you could go look at your podcasts four years ago. One of the things that that makes you so easy to follow is because you're honest with your changes, >> right? And people love that about you and you're just honest and and and watching that come through and and so some people aren't right flavor of the day today. They'll change a hundred times just to get a new vote and everything else. And so so in Bitcoin, watch for people who have been there a long time showing their proof of work and and say and and have they been have has their integrity been the same the whole time?
>> And read your book, Price of Tomorrow. definitely go and read Jeff's book. Um I think some people are are going to be terrified. Uh I think some people are going to be terrified by this, Jeff. Um it's a frightening situation if things do start to collapse because people have mortgages, uh car payments. Um it's very hard for some people to opt out of society. I think that creates an imperative for a political leader to understand this and explain it to people and make that decision for the collective.
>> Yeah. Um and and maybe just just one one of the things on Bitcoin because it was it's an open decentralized secure protocol founded by energy, you don't have to wait for anybody. You can just go. So, so a politician that really wants to create legacy, really wants to create value for their citizens, if they want to take the hold of that mantle and help their citizens understand faster, I think it's a incredibly powerful uh platform.
>> Yeah.
>> Um but but any single person, they don't have to wait. This is one thing you don't have to wait for. You could start right now.
We've crammed a lot into 50 55 minutes. uh a chance that you were in London I couldn't miss up but uh we will follow this up again. Listen people um go back I've done four or five interviews with Jeff maybe more and his book Price of Tomorrow is amazing. Go and check it out if you're terrified by this system. Go and look at Bitcoin. Love you all. Thank you Jeff. Thanks.