Transcription
Does Paul say faith can profit anything without love?
Well, again, faith, hope, and love. You're talking about 1 Corinthians 13.
Yeah.
That's talking about how we are to act in the Christian community. And in fact, even mentions in chapter 12 of that same letter that there is a spiritual gift called called faith, which not every Christian has. But, that's not talking about a saving faith of how to go to heaven. Only those people going to heaven, all the other people are not. No. It's just talking about certain people have unique faith in a different sense. Being able to trust God in certain circumstances in their life. When not every Christian has that. Other Christians may have the gift of prophecy or the gift of tongues, but these Christians have the gift of faith.
Why does he say all faith in 1 Corinthians chapter 13 verse 2? If I have all faith, but have not love, it profits me nothing.
Yeah. So, even if So, in terms of how you are to use your spiritual gifts, cuz that's what he's laid out in chapter 12. Even if you've got such great faith You've got the gift of faith as mentioned in chapter 12. If you don't do this with love, it's pointless, worthless. The whole point of all the spiritual gifts is to do things with love. Do it with love so they can help the body.
Without love, does it profit anything?
It doesn't profit you anything in terms of the community of The believers are not encouraged.
So, it could not profit it through an instrumental cause, Abraham's gift.
No, again, you're you're making a mistake here. You're using seeing the same word, and you're seeing it in a different context and thinking that it means the exact same thing.
qualifies
That's a That's a fallacy.
He He says all faith.
No, no. Have a look what he says.
Go ahead.
If I have prophetic powers and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. I am nothing.
gospel, what what What kind of faith was that? When Christ said, "If you have faith like a mustard seed, you'd be able to move mountains." What kind of faith is it?
Correct. Correct. But, remember, not all kinds of faith justify you. Not all faith is talking about saving faith. As we talked about in the last chapter, there are certain Christians who have a gift called faith, which is different to justifying faith, cuz other Christians have justifying faith, and they don't have this gift of faith. Right? So, he's saying even if you've got These are all hyperboles anyway. If I have prophetic powers and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, no one's got that. God's got that. We don't have that. So, he's giving hyper Even if Even if you could do this. Even if you could speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I'm a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. He's just showing how the spiritual gifts should be all done with love. Look at the last verse of the previous chapter. I will show you still a more excellent way. This is the more excellent way. Is that you do all your service in the church with love for your fellow Christian and love for God. And if you don't, you're just a noisy gong and a clanging cymbal. You're not helping anyone. So, you can't take
that chapter and therefore saying, "Oh, that's the same thing as what Paul's talking about in Romans 4." Different context, different things.
I'll prove it.
That's not how you read the Bible well, man.
I I'll show you. He He gives the type of qualification. He says it's the faith that moves mountains, which Christ defined it in Matthew 17. Matthew chapter 17, verse 20, he says, "Because of your unbelief" in the Greek, it's the literal contrast of faith that he says in the same verse. "Because of your unbelief, if you have faith as a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you." So, that's the type of faith. Because it in 1 Corinthians 13, "If I have all faith, even to move mountains," the one in contrast to unbelief, "if it does not have love, it profits nothing," which is why Christ says
Still not talking about justifying
or you'll be cut off.
It has to Still not talking about justifying faith. No, because
It has to be.
Do you agree that Christians can have unbelief? Right?
But, I'm talking about the contrast of unbelief.
For example, yeah. Yeah, you can have unbelief. Christians can have unbelief, but it's not talking about justifying faith or not. Because
about the contrast, the worry unbelief. When you when you worry when you worry about the future or Jesus don't worry don't be anxious but you do worry. Well you are in a sense expressing unbelief at that moment. You're not expressing trust that in God's promise of I will never leave you nor forsake you those things right?
contrasting it in yourself.
Okay so but that is not justifying faith. So that person can still
trusting faith that is a justifying
That person can still be trusting that Jesus took the punishment for their sins and still 100% be going to heaven when they die and yet still struggle with anxiety still struggle with worry which is a form of unbelief which is a form of unbelief.
say? What does Christ say when you have unbelief? Pray that God gives you faith. What kind of faith is that? Help my unbelief.
You're you're you're
You're simply not have you seems like you don't have the category distinctions that Paul makes. When he makes a distinction between because the word faith can be used in different context. Sometimes it can be talking about a justifying faith. Other times it can just be talking about the Christian faith in general. Like if you don't provide for your family and your relatives it says you've denied the faith. It's talking about not that they don't have saving faith in Jesus but it's just you're denying what Christianity is all about if you don't actually want to care about your family care care for your family. And then the third type of faith is the one talked about in chapter 12 of of first Corinthians. When he says it's a gift of faith and and just trusting God in different aspects. We're all growing in our faith. We say that. We're all growing in our faith.
from Matthew's the the one from Matthew 17 the one that moves mountains in contrast to unbelief like you just made the point. The one that's contrasted to unbelief is the trust in God. That's a saving faith.
No not necessarily. You can trust God like for example someone can trust God trust the word of Jesus that he's going to return there's going to be second coming he's going to return and and they may live in light of that. They like I really believe he's going to come back. That's a trust in God sure but is that in itself going to save them? No because if they still trust in their works to save them, they're going to hell. So, it all depends what what kind of faith we're talking about. We need to look to the passages in scripture that talk about how do you get counted as righteous? And so, Romans 4 is the perfect passage on that. And Paul links it up with us in regards to Abraham. I quoted um in Romans 4:21, I won't read that again, how he's fully convinced. But then Paul links it with us in verse 23. But the words it was counted to him were not written for his sake alone, so not for Abraham's sake alone, but for ours also. It will be counted to us who believe in him who raised from the dead Jesus our Lord, who was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification. So, Paul says, we're going to receive the same righteousness that Abraham received if we also just believe in him who raised Jesus um from the dead.
Mhm. So, you would take Romans chapter 4 to be qualifying a specific faith that 1 Corinthians 3 isn't qualifying?
1 Corinthians 13, you mean?
1 Corinthians 13, sorry. Yeah.
Yeah, I would basically it's talking about two different things cuz I think we can't take things out of context. Paul's making an argument about justification here in Romans, but in 1 Corinthians he's talking about how to act in the Christian church and use your spiritual gifts with love.
the mustard seed faith one for salvation, one unto salvation?
Uh it depends in the context. It depends if it's counted Is that person counted as righteous? Uh does it say that you receive eternal life? Now, there are passages where Jesus does talk about how to have eternal life, like John 6:47, he says, "Truly, truly I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life." So, the faith that he's talking about here is one where you get eternal life, but not every time um you can have people believing Jesus is the Messiah, but that's not necessarily going to give them eternal life if they don't believe that he's paid for their sins, if they still reject him being their savior, even if he's the Messiah, they still wouldn't be saved. So I think maybe for you, I want to ask you about why do you think God should let you into heaven?
Very simply, I am undeserving of heaven. It's a free gift. He shouldn't let me from heaven. It's what he did for me. That's why I should go to heaven. But also at the same time, what he did for me should be manifested in my love towards him and in my love towards others. Because he says, "If you want to enter life, keep the commandments. A new commandment I give to you, love one another."
Keep the commandments.
Yes. Matthew chapter 19. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.
Which you haven't done. None of us have done that.
I know, but that's why I have to consistently
you get to heaven on that basis?
Through his grace, he has to empower me to love.
But if you haven't kept them, even if you're like, "I'm trying to be better." That's still not the same as keeping them. Right? You're basically Do you think
But no, it's you cuz if it's him keeping in you, well then are you going to You don't blame God the fact that you break them. You blame yourself.
Yes.
Okay. So then it's you keeping them.
All follow.
All that is bad is my own. All that is good is of God's. That's why he says to abide in his love, not his love will be separated if I, you know, do bad. I'm abiding in his love. So the negative applies to me, the positive applies to him.
he's does it. He says, "I am I have reason to be proud of my work for God." So he calls it my work. He's things that he does. Okay. So therefore, so therefore, if you want to make your commandment keeping part of the basis of why you're going to go to heaven, that's glory goes to you. It's not all glory to God. It's glory to you because it's you keeping the commandments. But the issue is you haven't kept them. You're relying on the law to get you to heaven, the very thing that the Bible says you can't be justified by.
I'm not relying on the law. I think Paul says by the grace of God I am what I am. His grace toward me was not in vain. I labored more abundantly that than they all, yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. So again, all that is good applies to God. It's not my own glory. Even though I labored abundantly, the glory goes to God. That's why St. Paul says, yet not as I.
So when Paul says here, I mean Jesus says here, if you would enter life, keep the commandments.
Yes.
He's talking about the 10 Commandments for example, right?
Yeah, and he also also is further commandment in John that you love one another.
Well, but no, no, but in this the the Commandments and then he's asked which ones and he lists specifically the 10 Commandments. And he says not murder, shall not commit adultery, shall not steal, shall not bear false witness, honor your father and mother, you shall love your neighbor as yourself, which is from Leviticus. So 10 Commandments plus what's in Leviticus. He's saying that you have to follow. So therefore, if you're trying to gain salvation or get to heaven by your keeping of the Commandments, you are relying on the law cuz this is the law. This is the law of Mosaic law.
What does he say in Matthew? What is the law and the prophets? He gives a verse.
Yeah, but this is the law, correct?
But but do you know what verse he says when it says, this is the law and commandments? This is the law of
Yeah, he he Yeah, he talks about he gives a a summary of the heart in in terms of like justice and mercy and love. That talking
And then Paul says Paul says this contains all of the law.
That that's a fulfillment of the law. You're quoting Romans 13 there where he says love is the fulfillment of the law, but you're trying to quote Jesus here. Just wait. You're trying to quote Jesus here who says if you would enter life, you got to keep the Commandments. So that is the Mosaic law. That's part at least part of the Mosaic law is the Commandments. But then we contrast that with Galatians chapter 3 verse 10 and it says for all who rely on works of the law, which would include the the Commandments, are under a curse. For it is written, "Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law and do them." So, as soon as you make any part of the Mosaic Law a basis of your entry to heaven, you got to keep the entire thing to get there. And so then he says, "Well, you can't. Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for the righteous shall live by faith. But the law is not of faith."
Can you just show one verse? Matthew chapter 7 verse 12. You can show it on screen.
Yeah. So, do before we go to another passage, do you understand by you relying on works of the law, you're under a curse because the very thing that you think is going to get you to heaven, your commandment keeping, is the very thing God's going to say, "You broke it here, here, here, here." Just like me. I broke God's commandments list.
I'm not I'm not The thing is, I'm not relying on all those commandments listed one by one. I'm relying on how they are manifested in the new covenant, which is what I'll show you in Matthew chapter 7 verse 12.
So then, to enter life, do you have to keep the commandments like Jesus said?
Read Matthew 7:12, you'll see the answer. If you just look it up.
Matthew 7:12.
Yes.
"Whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the law and the prophets."
Are you listening to
a summary of it, but that doesn't mean that therefore the other parts are negated. It's a terrible reading.
Math- Matthew 22:40. The same The same place uses a different word. Matthew 22:40.
But again, you What you're doing is you're basically Jesus is giving a summary here of what the law requires, and you're like, "Therefore, I can maybe hold to this, but I can ignore whatever what else Jesus said." That's a dishonest reading.
It's not ignoring
two depend all the law and the prophets." And now what were they? One was to love God with a whole heart, soul, mind, and strength. Have you done that, by the way?
I I hope to every day.
You haven't though. If you're honest with yourself, I'm I would say no, I've not done this a single day in my life. Because to love God with my whole heart, soul, mind, and strength would be to never sin ever again. Unless you claim sinless perfectionism, I hope you don't.
I don't.
But unless Okay. Well, then you would have to admit that you don't love God as much as you ought to love him.
I don't. You're right.
So, you fail on that. I fail on that every day, too. And we also fail the second one. You love your neighbor as yourself. We fail on that every day. We often care more about ourselves than other people.
Do you see how these two are all summarized contained in one law which he repeats in John, "A new commandment I give to you that you love one another as I have loved you." So, that's
done. You have not loved one another as much as Christ has loved us. So, therefore you fail fail on that one, too, man.
Not to the same extent, but as God works in me, that is how I'm assured of salvation as it says in 1 John from chapters 2 to 5.
Wait up. You haven't loved God as I've loved you. As means to the degree of.
Not not to a complete degree, I agree.
No. Jesus requires you to be perfect. He says, "You must be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect." in Matthew 5:58. All right? So, my encouragement is Look, you can look at God's law, see even the summary commandments, loving God, loving your neighbor. I haven't done that. I've failed. I should be in hell. So, therefore I'm not going to trust in any of those things as playing any part in getting me to heaven. I'm going to trust in someone who has loved God perfectly and loved neighbor perfectly, Jesus Christ. And so, just depend on his finished work, and then you can be 100% sure you're going to heaven.