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T-minus 30 seconds. T-minus 20 seconds. 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, zero. Trap Talk Reptile Network. The coolest reptile network in the world. Episode 689. New Breed on the Block recap. Return of Herbert. HP Reptiles. My dog. Bringing mad love and respect to Ultramale tonight. No choice 'cause Herbert, that's what he rolls with. And I'm your boy MJ. What is good? Happy Monday. If it's your first time tapping in, and if you're enjoying what you're hearing tonight, please simply just hit that subscribe button. Help me grow this channel organically and hit that uh notification bell. Select all. You'll be reminded every podcast release. I have the network 7 days a week, Monday through Sunday. Of course, with me always, the truth. TOP GERINO REPTILES IN THE BUILDING.

"October baby."

"Damn. Here we go. I love October. Mainly because, you know, Dodgers, they're always in the playoffs kicking the Phillies ass right now. But uh, yeah, October. Here we are, bro. You're, you're uh, you're just at the end of your season right now, from what I know."

"Bro, I got a clutch today and I'm waiting on one more."

"That's it."

"Insane. Like, so late now. And now I'm feeding everything. Going hard. Put all my pairings into clutch this weekend. Uh, that's it, bro. We're, it's time. We're going again, you know."

"Yeah. It's crazy how it's like, not much time to like sit down and breathe. It's kind of established and get ready quickly for next year. That quick."

"100%. Crazy. Crazy."

"Are you happy that you didn't get everything you were expecting hit this year because it kind of gave you a little bit of room or no, you're mad? Not mad, but a little mad. But..."

"I mean, there's a few things that didn't go that hurt me a little bit, but it's all good. At the end of the day, we do what we got to do. We got to do what we got and uh, that's it."

"I hate saying this because I'm coming off such a great year, but I always feel like whenever you're at your like little, not a down, but if you have a year you're not too happy about, normally that next year, bro, comes [ __ ] tenfold. And I, and I'm pretty sure that's like the, that's like on the path you're on, 110% for."

"Yeah. Every year, every year that I have a down year, let's say, which is rare."

"Yeah."

"The next year, I've, it's been bonkers. So."

"Right."

"Yeah. Excited. Excited. That's all I can say."

"Excited for the return of Herbert tonight. HP Reptile is my guy, man. Dude, he came in through that era of [ __ ] who are just dropping left and right at this point now. And he's in here tough as [ __ ]. I'll never forget, I think the second year he became a supporter of mine, he was already vending at Tinley. And I was like, damn, buddy, like, first and foremost, like vending any show, even for me, I get, I get that little bit of butterfly excited feeling. But Tinley must feel [ __ ] like, oh my god, you know what I mean? And so I gave my, I gave my respect to this to this guy years, years back when he had his first Tinley because I know like, dude, that's first and foremost, not easy to get into. But respect, you're in. And he's still there, bro. I'm pretty sure he's going to be at Tinley this year coming up this weekend. Which, wish you were going this, this weekend. Uh, it wouldn't be cool to walk around with you. But uh, NBC Tinley, guys. I'll be there this week. It's going down. So shout out to Bob Ashley and Brian Potter and uh, Morph Market, who's sponsoring NBC Tinley. [ __ ] cannot wait. So many big things popping, man. But what do you know about the homie Herbert, dude? Give me some."

"Honestly, not much. And don't ask, don't ask me how. I mean, I, you know, we didn't even follow each other to keep it real for..."

"Some games."

"We don't know each other. Uh, I, uh, I saw, I've been seeing Ultramale here and there with him. I, you know, people call him the Ultramale King. Um, I want to get to know him. Super nice guy, I've heard. And uh, you know, you know, I keep it 100. I mean, we, we've, I've never spoken to him till this week."

"I'm not gonna lie. This is the first time I'm hearing about this Ultramale King [ __ ]. But I know that's going to get into some people's pants for sure, 'cause we got other [ __ ] out there who are very proud about their Ultramale. And uh, but listen, Herbert's been down for Ultramale from the, from the get-go. Even when I would have Monarch episodes, he would be like, in my DMs like, 'No, man. Sorry. It's Ultramale, dude.' And so, God bless him. Either way, his projects are, are going to be exciting to talk about tonight because uh..."

"You know, this is going to be a good episode on what it, what happens when you just keep your head down and believe in your work and you just [ __ ] grind. That's Herbert, dude. He's been grinding. So, yeah."

"Um, shout out to everyone in the chats, man. Just a reminder to all you guys again, Trap Talk is the only reptile network that is seven days a week, Monday through Sunday. Get your reptile fix, man. If you want to learn about all species of the reptiles that you can keep in this hobby, then make sure you're subscribed to this network. And also, just to remind you guys, you can listen to all these episodes on all major audio platforms. Apple Podcast, Spotify, uh, Google Play, all the major ones, man. So, thank you for all the love and support. Really means a lot. If you're looking for exclusive content, you want to get more behind the scenes, especially what I have going on this year with all breeding stuff that I'm getting prepared for, uh, condro weight list, emerald tree boa stuff, then come join the Trap Talk Patreon family. Click the very first link in the description below. Soon as you do that, get connected to a Discord and an epic uh, Instagram group chat. Shout out to my trappers, man. You guys are my heart. Shout out to tonight's sponsor. Um, one of them being Clutch, number one ball python organization app in the game. As Amelia was saying, very exciting to see uh, what he has going on due to the fact that he's inputting all his clutch information, excuse me, project information to Clutch. You know, I think it's very crucial when it comes to having amazing projects looking organized and cutting edge. Best way to do that is by using Clutch. So, thank you so much, Sebastian, Justin, Summer, the entire Clutch team down in South Africa. Uh, doing big, big things, man. So, please go check them out on Instagram. Also, uh, go to their website, try them free for 30 days. Thank you so much again for anyone out there who supports Clutch. Also, tonight's episode's brought to you by RGI, Rare Genetic, Inc. If you got ball python sheds, please turn them in with the best, and that's Ben and Sean over at Rare Genetic Inc. Dr. Ben, excuse me. But, uh, yeah, thank you so much, guys. Looking forward to linking up with all these guys here at Tinley, um, here very shortly. Again, a lot of big things happening this week. Um, and then also tonight's episode is brought to you by Gary Scabino over at GS Reptiles. Please head over to GS Reptiles on Instagram and YouTube. Subscribe, see what he has available on Morph Markets. One of the best students in the game, one of my favorites. And uh, I will be linking up with Gary, Bill, just a few names off the top of my head this weekend. Um, so you'll be see, you'll be able to meet some [ __ ] heavy hitters in the Condro game um, this weekend at Tinley. So if you are going, please let me know. Let's link up. And uh, Big E, you ready to bring on Herbert or what, dog?"

"Do it, bro."

"All right, man. Again, I'm excited for tonight. The return of Herbert. HP Reptiles coming at you. This is the recap episode. New Breed on the Block, episode 689. Let's go."

"Good."

"You ready for do more in the future Trap Talk podcast?"

"Yes."

"Man, only Trap Talk exclusive."

"Exclusive."

"So stop calling us."

"When I come up with the love it, love it or not. I'm hot from the hop to the spot. Get the club when I come up the spot. Get the club when I come up the spot. Get the club when I come up. The spot. Get the club when I come up. Everybody, we do it. Everybody, we do it. Do it. Do it. Do it. Spot. Get the club when I come up with the spot. Get the club when I come up with the spot. Get the club when I come up. Get the club when I come up. And we are live. Episode 689. Welcome back. The Ultra King. Holy [ __ ]."

"Ultramale King, man. I got to go load my guns and get out of here because there's already hits on me. I know it."

"You're gonna kill me, bro."

"Hey, what's up, bro? Nice to meet you. Let me start off by fixing that real quick. Um, bro, who is that person you look at as the top dog with Ultramale? I don't think there is one person."

"Right?"

"Uh, there's a few up and coming. Um, I mean, Marshall Menddees has always been known as the Ultramale Clown King. So props to him. I mean, without him, I wouldn't be in the game initially. I got my first Ultramale clown project animals from him. So that was my inspiration."

"Yeah. I don't, I don't think anyone is as deep project-wise with Ultramale for as long as they have like Marshall. I would have to give it to Marshall."

"I think he's the goat. I think he's the Ultramale goat."

"He was doing it before anyone was really doing it."

"2010. 2010 he got his first one. 20..."

"There you go. Yeah."

"Yeah."

"And and he and he went the long route just as you should. You know what I mean? Um, and and what's crazy is like, and again, not, not to take this away from any Ultramale stock out there. I think it's all beautiful. I really do. Uh, got on camera with it just like anything else. But I will tell you this, any kind of amazing stock I've seen Ultramale wise leads to [ __ ] Marshall somehow from what I've seen."

"Yeah. One more thing. Uh, it took, again, this is my opinion. It took guts for Marshall to get into Ultramale."

"Yeah."

"Early because I stayed away from it because of, you know, thinking that it might be connected to Caramel and there could be potential kinking. So, I wish I didn't do that now, obviously. So, yeah."

"Well, well, all right. Let's give you your moment here, uh, Herbert. Like, let's, how did Ultramale enter your project? Like, how did it enter? And, and for the record, why don't you tell me again, even though I, I, I feel like you've already said this multiple times, but the first year you came in as HB Reptiles. I'm pretty sure that was 2020 from what I remember."

"Um, I, I started in 2017. Uh, that 2017 to 2018 era. Um, but I didn't officially become HB Reptiles, I think until 2019 or 2020. I just hadn't decided on a name and I wasn't doing anything anyways that I needed to have a name before, you know, that 2019 to 2020 timeframe."

"Yeah. So then, so basically HB Reptiles, once you became HB Reptiles, were you already kind of investing on the heavy side of things or that's when you kind of really started like getting into Ultramale? Like, where were you at in your collection when you became HB Reptiles?"

"Um, not really high-end stuff at all. Um, a lot of Koda stuff and not very many recessives. Um, it was around that 2020 era when I started to rotate out a lot of my heavy Koda males and females and introducing recessives into my projects. And that's when I got my first set of Ultramale clown stock from Marshall um was in 2020."

"And you bought hats at first or like, how did you buy into the Ultramale project? What was your your choice of routes on this?"

"So, the first animal I bought from him was a female normal double het Ultramale clown."

"What I didn't know is that later on she would prove to be het Caramel."

"And then I talked to Marshall, that was like in the spring of 2020. And I talked to Marshall and said, 'Hey, like, I want to go further in this project, you know, what do you have coming later this season, you know, that I can get in on now?' And so he said that he had a couple Ultramale uh pairings later on in the season and, you know, he would get back to me when he had some animals available. And he did. And so I ended up picking up a male pastel Ultramale het clown and a pastel double het Ultramale clown."

"Mmm."

"And those two animals ended up both proving to be het pied, which led me to make the first Ultramale clown pied just a couple weeks before Azie and and Gravy did."

"Wow."

"And epic."

"Also, that male ended up proving het Caramel."

"And I had, I bred him to that normal double het female I had gotten earlier in that year. And that's how I found out that I had Caramel in my collection. And so now some of my Ultramale projects are potentially het Caramel."

"I mean, are, no offense, but are you kind of doing yourself a disservice by saying that right now? Because I, isn't that something, not a, isn't that a project not sought after at this point?"

"Uh, it's not, but I also believe in transparency and being honest. Um, I've said since the beginning that I've had Caramel in certain Ultramale projects and when I sell them, I list them that way. If they were from that original stock, I'll say that they're 50% het Caramel. And I've talked about it publicly before, so it, it's not a secret, you know, that I have had Caramel stuff potentially in some of my animals. I actually just produced a, I, well, last year, two years ago, I produced a Ultramale pied het clown. And I ended up buying a few female known het Caramel so that I could pair them together to try to see if I would hit Caramel so then I could prove, prove them not to be Caramel essentially. And unfortunately, I hit a Ultramale Caramel. No, sorry, not Ultramale, a Caramel pied."

"Uh, this year and it just shed out today."

"Well, my Ultramale pied het clown male is also a het car."

"So, what's that, what's that Caramel pied look like? Is it okay or is it all [ __ ] up?"

"It's actually perfect. Not a single kink on it whatsoever. Absolutely gorgeous."

"Absolutely gorgeous."

"So, I'll sell it as a pet."

"They are [ __ ] gorgeous. Like."

"Yeah."

"I remember back in the day, bro, my first Daytona, I left that that Daytona with that thing burned in my head. Like, it's such a beautiful animal, you know?"

"Yeah."

"Somebody just, I can't remember. Somebody just posted something that they hit Caramel in the, in the mix. God, who was it? But I was thinking..."

"Oh, it's been popping up in DG as well. I, I know several people that have had Caramel pop up in their their DG stuff. Um, but I mean, is that something where like, you know, it hasn't really been worked with enough to see if this whole kink thing is a permanent factor in this project or like, is it just like, no, we've already seen enough proof. Just [ __ ] steer away from it."

"I think there's enough proof. Um, the very first Caramel that I hit was kinked."

"Um."

"About halfway down its body, it had a pretty severe kink. And I never could get it to eat and it ended up dying. Um, I hatched another one uh two years ago and she did phenomenal. I, I kept her until she was about a thousand grams and then I sold her as a pet to somebody and she did great."

"Wow."

"I think it's just hit or miss. Supposedly."

"Um, I forget who it is. It might have been um Dave Palumbo from down in Florida."

"I think he is working with a line of Caramel that he says doesn't have kinking issues. So, I don't know. I just know there were multiple lines of Caramel, but maybe there is."

"I've seen some of that guy's pictures before. Super suspect. I wouldn't really [ __ ] trust much of what that guy says. No offense. He just kind of came off of too many red flags to me from from the years I've noticed some of his work. So, God bless. Who knows? You never know."

"Go ahead."

"Also, the the females, I, I remember one documented female lane. Was that is that right? Probably."

"Yeah."

"One documented female of the car, the Caramel gene."

"Yeah."

"I think they are known to get egg bound."

"So, the first Ultramale combo you hit had pied in it or was it a clown?"

"Uh, let me see. The first..."

"I'm trying to remember."

"Double recessive. I meant double recessive Ultramale. Yeah, it might have been the very first clutch of Ultramale clown stuff that I hatched was the Ultramale clown pied."

"What year was that?"

"That would have been '22. Actually, I can look right at it. Yeah, '22."

"Nice. And..."

"I cut that just before I went to Tinley."

"Nice."

"And I was like, man, I don't know what is in this egg. And then I got back from Tinley and it had crawled out and I'm like, I'm pretty sure that is an Ultramale clown pied. And I got right a hold of Marshall and he's like, 'I think that's an Ultramale clown pied.' And I'm like, 'Did you have pied in your Ultramale stuff?' And he was like, 'Yeah. He's like, I had a female that was a poss het pied from a couple generations ago and I never even thought about the the het the poss het pied and I didn't carry that on. And apparently she was het pied and was just passing it on to random animals. And I just so happened to get two animals from that clutch that were both het pied.'"

"That's crazy. I, why do you think that is, Amelio? Like, why do you think pied wouldn't be something that wouldn't be remembered they had when they sell it? I don't, I can understand hypo, right? Because that was people weren't trying to say they had hypo and I remember that was the case. But what would you think the whole reason is behind this with pied would be like, why?"

"You got to understand, at one point, everyone's animals, everyone was trying to hit pieds and make pies. So..."

"A bunch of heads, pot heads."

"You know, and at, at the end of the day, um..."

"Back then and still some of us today, we take advantage of our animals, meaning that we don't move on from our animals, right? So..."

"Yeah."

"Yeah, man. There's, there's definitely, you know, het DG stuff out there, het pied stuff, uh, het hypo, het clown. I mean, I'm not surprised when something hits, you know. It, you shouldn't be surprised, you know, fully, you know. I mean, what do you think, Herbert? I mean, you weren't super surprised."

"Yeah, I was definitely surprised, you know, with back then, you know, that was before shed testing. I mean, we didn't even have, you know, clown clown tests back then."

"Yeah."

"Um, you know, so you have an animal, especially a female, that's just poss pied and it's very easy to just be like, well, she's probably not going to prove and I'm not going to put the effort into trying to prove her. So, you just kind of forget about it. You know, you don't even throw it on the label as being poss and then you just produce multiple clutches with her and don't even think about it."

"Yeah."

"Hey, uh, Herbert, are you made of money? Like, are you balling? Like, are you [ __ ] got a couple Ferraris in your driveway? What's your financial situation right now? I'm just curious."

"Uh, I've only got one Ferrari, two Lamborghinis."

"What I'm trying to get at is like, I think you value the money you put into this game. And I feel like you haven't been what some of these people have been doing. I feel like when they're not as knowledgeable behind investing on morphs, you know, like I feel like you put a lot of thought into what you're going to be spending money on when it comes to a project. So, what, what are you looking for? Like, you know, maybe if you're not even doing it now, but if it came into you looking at a new project, like, what is it that's appealing to you? Like, what, what is it that makes you feel comfortable, first and foremost, buying into something that you believe in, but it's a high dollar value? You know what I mean?"

"So, that's tough. I mean, so you have to break it down to is it an incomplete dominant gene or is it recessive? Um, because you have to look at at those as two completely separate animals. Um, you know, an incomplete dominant could be $20,000 today and then in next year it could be a $3,000 animal. You know, if it gets overproduced, especially people buying males and they're putting them to 12 females, you know, they, and the way that the market is right now, like the price will just get driven down very quickly. Um, recessives obviously are more sustainable and you can add incomplete dominance to them to keep that price staying up, you know, for a longer period of time. You know, you can add a second recessive and then you can add, you know, three incomplete dominances to it and that'll help keep the the price alive. Um, I kind of dealt with that a little bit when I got into Stranger. Um, Stranger had come down to a point where it was, it was affordable to a, uh, an investment level that wasn't, you know, $40,000. Uh, and I ended up buying a, uh, yearly from Justin for $16,000. And that was back in, oh boy, '21, I think. And I was able to use him that year because he was already about 550 grams. So, got a handful of meals into him, got him up to about 800 grams. Used him that season. And then already by that next season, Stranger prices were down to $5, $6,000 for Stranger hets. So, I mean, that was a, a huge drop in value. So, I learned that lesson early on with a very expensive purchase. And now I'm way more cautious when I'm investing in something. I, I think about it as far as, okay, next year this animal is going to be worth less. And then the year after it's going to be less. So, what can I do to this project? You know, what can I do with this one gene so that I can maintain its value? And that was one thing that I didn't do when they had the Stranger, um, the first Stranger. Um, I was new into uh investment level animals and I thought that the market was going to sustain that price for at least a little while longer than it did. And so I, I bred that male to a bunch of random females, couple het clowns. I bred him to a straight pastel female. No recessives whatsoever. And I mean, I made my money back. So, I mean, I can't say that I went negative, but I could have been very, I could have been further ahead in the Stranger Project if I had done more intelligent pairings for sure."

"And you know what that's like, dude, you, you have, you hit some that are just out of the park in this game, right? And it's like, holy. And I'm sure you've done, like, look what you did with the Ultramale Clown Pied. Like, holy [ __ ]. Like, that's a reward right there. Definitely at that time. But there's also moments like the Stranger situation, which, you know, I'm not gonna lie, I looked at Stranger for a long time. And I just never had that demeanor to drop that much money in the ball python game just because it just, I was so crazy with Condros and I rather, I'm going to rather be, I'd rather be crazy on that end than anything else. And so, but I loved Stranger. Like, I love dark stuff. I love the [ __ ] Levance was showing, Mark Bailey was showing me. And I'm just like, I was really bought into Stranger, but I just was not bought in on how much it was. And what was crazy is right when I finally got to where I was to just say, [ __ ] it and get some Stranger, that's like the same year it went down. Like, and it was like an overnight thing, dude. It was, it was pretty crazy to see. Um, I'm not gonna say I didn't drop no $16K. That's wild, bro. Is that, is that the biggest purchase you've ever made? $16K or..."

"Yep. Yep."

"Respect. God, man. He gets my heart rate going, you know, because I, I felt like I dropped some cheese in the, in the Condro and Emerald game, but $16K, bro. But mind you, that, like you said, there was a game plan. You knew you could get that thing up in size. But here's the thing. You don't know. That's what's crazy. Like..."

"You don't know. It may not breed its first season, even if you do have it up to size."

"It may not eat. It may be, it may be like, you know what? I want to die. I don't want to be here no more. Like, there's a lot of things. That's why also you should be happy that you got your money back, which I feel like, here's a beautiful thing, guys. I think anyone should pay attention to this. I think at worst case scenario, if you are working a project right, you will make your money back. Okay? That's like bare, that's like bare minimum if you just, okay, if it doesn't go your way, you're going to at least make your money back in such a project that you choose like Stranger, no matter how much it drops, because it dropped a lot. And mind you, spent a lot of money. Like, you're spending more than the average person would spend on one project, you know what I mean? Um, but you were also, you had helps to knocking the [ __ ] out of the park. Like, you know, like you, you could have, you know what I mean? People, people made out in Stranger. Like, um, there was obviously, I mean, look how high priced Stranger was for so long. Um, and and then again, like I said, it's like someone [ __ ] just turned the lights off and it was like it just dropped. Um, but it's still [ __ ] definitely a project well worth working for sure. I love Stranger. And the thing is, it's like, you look at Stranger and if you do like dark stuff, there's no question. You know what Stranger looks like in a single form. You know what it looks like in other, like, it's not hard to ID Stranger in most of this [ __ ]. You know what I mean? But would you spend money on something you're struggling to ID in a single form? Um, Herbert, like, like let's say Stranger just was like, it looked like a normal, you know what I mean? Um, or something like, how would you, would you, would you be so invested in such a project if you really couldn't visually see what you were buying?"

"No. Not at all."

"No question. Right."

"No."

"Because I think we use our eyes to buy. I think right..."

"We should be."

"We should be. And we all, we all know how, we all know how recessives work, right? We all know that there's and that there's proven cases. But it shouldn't be that hard to singly ID a morph."

"You would think, right?"

"Yep. If, if you gotta, if you gotta sit up here and do video after video explaining that, you know, this is it, this is this, this is that, this is this..."

"Bro, it's, it's pretty bad. I mean..."

"Which, with shed testing available, like, what's the problem?"

"You got to try so hard to make people see something that hasn't proven to be there. I mean, you know, I don't know, man. It didn't get me. I'll tell you that. And what I'm gonna say this, and this this is pretty factual, okay? Since, uh, you know, everyone's saying, 'Oh, there's no facts behind what we're saying or what others are saying, right?' Most people getting into the gene we're talking about are new. So, meaning they're, they, they don't have the trained eye. All right? That's a problem."

"Yeah, they're being told."

"If people with a trained eye are telling you to proceed with caution, you should listen. Period. It's not about hating anything. It's about telling people to be careful. That's all."

"Yeah. Part of the stigma in the ball python community is the know-it-alls. [ __ ] like people who are just a couple years in, they figured it all out. They know more than a 30 plus year veteran all of a sudden, which is crazy. But..."

"Many of them, by the way."

"Multiple, right? Multiple, which is wild to me. And like, this is a hobby, bro, where there's so many successful people enough to follow and listen to where, dude, you won't, you won't go wrong. You know what I mean? Um, but then again, it's like, I don't know. I, I don't know, man. I feel like almost finding good help is an art. Like, you have to be good at it because some people are either so treated well where they've never been treated, they just listen to whatever they're being told. They don't give a [ __ ] And they're and they're so bought in. I met some people where they know they've been lied to, but they don't care. They're still, they're still cool with the person. Like, they don't care. And I'm like, okay. Like, God bless. You know what I mean? If that's. And I, but for me, I'm just like, look, this is a business to me. Like, trust me, it's a hobby. I love it. But I, I can't, if I don't make money, I can't do this. I can't, I can't continue to have a job I have if I'm not making money. So, I take this very serious because I don't ever want to go back. [ __ ] hate my life. I don't, I'm not a nine-to-five guy ever. You know what I mean? So, that's why like when it comes to such a project that has such a crazy high value to it, it shouldn't be that difficult to ID first and foremost, but it shouldn't be that complex. Nothing should be this complex, I don't think. You know, if it is, and if, if it is that complex, guess what? There's a solution. It's called shed testing. Why are we against shed testing?"

"Go ahead."

"Before I, Herbert, um, answer what, you know, and reflect on what we're talking about, I want to bring up ethics, right?"

"Yeah."

"Integrity. We started off this podcast with Herbert saying nice and clear, 'Oh, I, I, I had Caramel, you know, in my stuff.'"

"Yeah. Transparency."

"Transparency. We need to be ethical. Why? Because for a little extra money, right?"

"This year and last year."

"You might be risking it all, brother."

"Yeah."

"Okay. Because people don't forget. And we're not gonna forget. So, all we're saying is be ethical, you know, don't say, 'Oh, I thought it was that.' That's not good enough these days, bro. Especially with shed testing. That's not good enough. So..."

"Because guess what? If you are, if you are proven not to be legit, doesn't take much for you not to be like, for you to just kind of get like, not, you know, I don't know what to say because almost the biggest piece of [ __ ] can still sell snakes in this game, but it's not good. I'll tell you that much. We all seen, we all seen what insane thieves do in this game. They're, they're not really welcomed after that. And and also you're spotted everywhere. So it's like, I don't know. At the end of the day, um, transparency is, I feel like that's where we're at today nowadays. Like, dude, the more you hide something, not that they are, I'm just saying in general, the more you're not kind of being clear about something, the worse it is once it becomes clear. Once the [ __ ] smoke settles, you know, smoke and mirrors, you know, once once all that [ __ ] chills out. Damn. I don't know. Oh, again, like I said, this could all be taken care of with shed testing. So, it's that simple. That comes out. Like, listen, at the end of the day, if shed testing comes out and you show that Scrambler is its own morph, I will make an apology episode. I will literally [ __ ] it and I will give up. I will clap. I would be so happy. I would be in a, I would literally be happy for Scrambler because I'm like, 'Yes, finally, dude. Go for it. Go for the moon. [ __ ] yeah. Make more of it now that we know, you know.' Man..."

"I'm glad you said we were talking about Scrambler because I thought you were talking about Ultramale."

"No, no. Look. Straight up. Straight up."

"I'll get into the project if I see there's validity to it. I, I think I think the price will go up. I think uh more people will get into the project, you know, plain and simple."

"Yeah."

"Period."

"That's it. Be so easy. That's what I'm saying. I guarantee Justin would get on board. Like, mad people would get on board with that because, you know, from what I'm seeing on these crazy videos, it does look something like, like it looks like that's it's a beautiful animal. Like, I'm not, I'm not sitting here saying, 'Oh, what a [ __ ] ugly project.' No, I just want to know what it is. Is it a line or is it its own morph? That's it. We can move on. Let's move on with our life. That's it."

"That way, that way, that way when we, when we bring it up on this show, the coolest reptile network in the world, it's not like, uh, oh, suspect topic. You know? Like, if it's a suspect topic, we're going to address it. Simple as that. If [ __ ] if six months. Yeah. By the way, we have, we have football flags coming. We're going to be throwing yellow flags. We're red flags. All right. We're going to have timeouts for people, bro. Yes. Because there's just too many penalties going on in this game, bro. And if we, [ __ ], if we see a penalty on this show, we're [ __ ] throwing a flag, bro. And we're going to break it all down. That's it. Sorry. You know what I mean? And if there's Hold on, hold on. Hold on. Hold on. There's something that you guys could find challenging for us, dude. Open invitation to this to this Monday night. If you could really bring a good argument with Scrambler, if you could bring a good argument with anything that we're against, dude, please come on this show. And we'll hug afterwards. We're all, it's all love and it's all learning. Like, we just want to get better at this, right? But goddamn it, dude. I mean, the writing's on the [ __ ] wall and I know how to read. I'm not one of these people who can't read. I could read. So, there's that. Go ahead. Me outside. Let me cut you off."

"No. No. We, we, Herbert, let's go."

"What?"

"Why you saying to Herbert, let's question?"

[Music]

"No, man. Listen."

"Oh. Oh. Hey, that's a good topic. Hold on, bro. The, the Han situation. What do you think about the Han situation? Um..."

"Oh, man. I just saw that uh, I don't know, a day or two ago. I, I don't know a whole lot about it. I only saw the screenshots that were being posted on Instagram. But okay, but we obviously, like, I feel like there's not 100% proof yet. But like, again, if we find out that this Hurricane thing was made in Europe, duplicated in Europe, and it originated from Trick, which again, writing's on the [ __ ] wall here, what do we do? I mean, I guess it's too late for to do anything about it at this point, right?"

"Oh, I thought that was a known thing."

"And not to everyone, obviously, because if that was a known thing, why would you be so proud about representing it? Like, I don't, again, I'm not an, I, I have a couple Hurricane stuff, right? But I'm not, again, like, where, where do we find things that are legit and then aren't legit? Where do, where do we draw the line here? I don't know. I, it's, and if we don't..."

"And I think you can give Han credit for taking a gene and and doing the work and line breeding it to where it is now because there's no denying that the Hurricanes that come from Han are absolutely amazing. The the quality is beyond most other Hurricanes or Trick or Blitzes, you know, that you're going to see on Morph Market."

"Um, but renaming the gene probably wasn't the smartest move. Um, if it was a, a Trick or whatever Trick or a Blitz that it came from, it should just be, you know, Han's line Trick or Han's line Blitz or something like that."

"I see no issue with that, but totally renaming it. Um, you know, that might be a little underhanded."

"Well, I mean, I saw the look on Dell Richard's face when he was on this show and he talked about this. He's kind of like, 'Fuck that.' Like, that's, and like he's getting down on it, and he should, because he, he got into Trick, you know, I don't know how many years back. But again, if that was me, dude, and that was my money, and then I see some dude named Hans Winner Weiner, whatever the [ __ ] his last name is, go and like rename that [ __ ], I would not let that go. I wouldn't."

"I just wouldn't let it go. I would, I would be very salty for sure."

"Let me put my two cents in on this split thing. While I don't know enough, I do know that Hurricanes are super cheap now and homeboy got to be hurting over there. So, uh, damn. What a coincidence that now there's a [ __ ] other gene in it that trying to market that. Uh, bro, I know people that have produced a ton of Hurricanes and they don't believe in that."

"So, I don't know, bro. It could be variation, you know, natural variation. You know, I produce a bunch of exotic clowns. Some of them are brighter, some of them are busier, you know, some of them are [ __ ] A+ plus. Some of them are A+. Guys, what the [ __ ]"

"Tricks on you, pal. Let's, let's come up with something new so I could sell animals from Germany because no one's going to buy a $200 animal anymore. You know."

"Bro, take care of that customer that bought the 150 snakes from you. Take care of them."

"Right?"

"You're misiding, please. Thank you."

"And again, dude, there's a lot of money that goes into this hobby, bro. Like, still to this day, it's being fed day after day. [ __ ] are dropping big money. So, we clean it up a little bit or at least like [ __ ] crack whips when whips need to be cracked because this whole like scam of [ __ ] bro. It's not [ __ ] cool. Like, it's, it's [ __ ] And nobody really talks about it. We're the only ones. Me and Amelio, we're the only ones that call this [ __ ] out. And again, some people are going to be offended. I would too if I was [ __ ] that vested into [ __ ] saying I have an $11,000 [ __ ] animal I just produced. Lies. Cap. Not $11K. Sorry. I seen, I've seen $11,000 animals. That's not it, pal. Okay. So, I'm just saying, dude, there, there's just again, and then also, uh, us, we got to use our own eyes. We got to judge, use our own judgment, which is crazy. And I feel like that can only get better with time. When you're in this hobby, you start seeing some things that you're like, 'Oh, wow. I don't see it the same as I used to anymore.' Because again, the smoke starts to clear. You kind of like, it depends who you speak to and who you're being mentored by when you first come in because you're more likely just going to listen to them and hopefully it's a good one and not somebody who's telling you just listen to them and you know, give you, put you down some rabbit holes because when you go down the rabbit holes, that's when you're wasting time."

"Um."

"Can I get one more dick coming in?"

"Sure."

"I was like, wait, what?"

"Yeah. No, meaning I'm gonna be a dick one more time."

"I don't know about one more time, but go ahead."

"All right. So, rookies, when you hear someone talk like this, it's because I've seen a million of you and I've seen a million people say, 'Oh, this is new. Oh, I got a new thing. Oh, even even someone as, as accomplished as the guy in Germany, okay, sold two misided snakes that are super easy to ID. Okay. So, people that that are selling snakes that are super easy to ID, misiding them, are you really going to listen to them saying they have a new gene connected to a gene that's been sold for 10 years? Like, you only get so many red flags. I feel like I, I'm sorry, you just do. Like, and, and like I feel like you can't, it's not like you can't make it up from the..."

"But bro, who's going to own up to their fuckups like this? You think Hans is going to write a statement saying, 'You know what? I did jack [ __ ] this gene from Florida, brought it here, made it better, and I named it [ __ ] her.' He's never gonna [ __ ] do that, bro. Like he's [ __ ], he's just blocking people. He's just, he's trying to collect his PayPal um inquiries and just [ __ ] block fools. You know what I mean? Which is also like, guys, like it's that easy too for these [ __ ] just to try to disappear on you. Um, so if there's any, if there's anyone that you're invested in and like, because some of these people have long-term deals with these breeders like they, like, pay me X amount and I'll keep giving you snakes for like X amount times. Like there's like little deals that we don't know people make that are like long-term that could just be gone just like that when someone like Hans or whoever the [ __ ] is trying to pull some fast ones because humans are humans, bro. Humans are pieces of [ __ ]. So, humans will [ __ ] pull fast ones left and right. Doesn't matter. Especially if they're in a dilemma with money. We've seen it multiple times, bro. Some of these people get into a bad money situation and they do something wild. Okay. Wild. Wild. Some of them are still around. But I've seen some wild [ __ ]."

You know what I mean? Some wild tech.

Some of them are selling their collections because of their their errors over people. And and mind you, dude, you you're just bet again, God bless whoever's going through anything hard or whatever, but you're better off just not being around like people who are going through [ __ ]. You know what I mean?

You know, if they have an animal you want and the reasonable price, God bless, do it. But just be careful. Like, you got to you got to be careful out there. It's not as willy-nilly as [ __ ] oh, cool. He has a hundred snakes for sale for this a price. I can afford it. You know, like no, dude. Look for red flags everywhere.

But thing is, you got to want to look for the red flags. You got to want to like see what it is you're looking for versus just hearing what you like and say, "Okay, I'm in." You know, because people think they always have like, "Oh, wow. I got a deal of a lifetime." That's another new new rookie mistake is people feel like they're getting pitched a package deal that nobody's ever gotten pitched before. You know what I mean? Like, and it's like, "Wow, he's going to give me such a deal." And and I and I and and I, you know, cautious on that as well. Beware when you're getting good deals. You know what I'm saying?

Um, and do your homework, dude. I don't know. How would you do your homework in 2025, Herbert? Going in 2026, let's say it's your first year. Let's say you're listening to this podcast right now, Herbert. You're on month three, whatever. How would you how would you do your homework? Like, how would you be like, "Fuck, I better I better be on top of this shit." How would you do that nowadays?

I mean, the first thing you should do is join a Patreon. Um, a good one. And maybe maybe that's another problem is, you know, trying to figure out which Patreon to join. Um, but there's plenty of established breeders out there. Kenova's got one. You've got one. Will's got one. Bob's got one. These are staples in the industry. Um, joining one of those Patreons. Big E has one. I got to say, Billino Reptiles has one.

Oh, I'm sorry.

All right. No, you're good. Go join. Anyways, go ahead. Keep going, Herbert. I'm sorry. I've been in too many Patreons. I can't join them all.

You're good. I just wanted to throw that out there. Biggie gots one.

Yes. And and and Amelio's Patreon. Um and getting into those those Discord chats, you know, most of the people that are going to be in there are are going to be people that you can trust and build a relationship with. Um because those people aren't going to last uh in those Discord groups if they're screwing people over.

Let me let me add something to this really quick.

Yeah.

Uh I advocate for people to join a couple,

maybe even up to three. Why? Because with the amount of money people are dishing out.

Yeah.

You know, without knowing what the [ __ ] they're doing, right?

Yeah.

Yep.

Bro, they should be in these Patreons. Okay. You know, learning from a little bit from everyone, taking something from this guy, taking something from this guy, comparing the message here, comparing the message there, right? Uh, period, bro. Like you shouldn't have a hundred snakes in your collection in a year if you don't have any type of guidance whatsoever, bro. That makes no [ __ ] sense.

I mean, period, bro. Like, I I don't know. I I get I get freaked freaked out when I see people, you know, every day, bam, bam, bam, bam, snake, snake, snake, you know, new box, new box, new box. And when you see what they're getting, you're like, "Oh my god, this person, man, they need they need guidance so bad, you know?"

Yeah.

Yeah. I agree. I'll I'll tell you a quick story. Um back in December of last year, um I had a girl uh reach out to me. She's down in Florida. She's a cop down in Florida. And she reached out to me and she was like, "Hey, you know, I'm interested in this one snake you have. I think it was a a pastel butter ghi uh possible hypo thing, something like that." And uh I'm like, "Okay, cool." like, you know, is this uh, you know, part of your breeding project or, you know, is this just going to be a pet? And she's like, "Oh, it's just going to be a pet for now." You know, me and my mom were researching um, you know, maybe breeding in the future, but, you know, it's just going to be a pet. All right, cool.

So, I talked to her. It was about a month and a half later and she reached out to me and she was looking to buy a few more animals that I had because her and her mom decided that they were going to start breeding on a small scale. And I was like, "Okay, that's cool." You know, what are you what are you looking at? and she told me, you know, a few animals that that she wanted and, you know, we worked out a price and I sent them to her and I kind of started mentoring her a little bit and giving advice here and there. And I had I had noticed that after a few weeks, like she was just going to the hub every single week, picking up animals, and she was talking to this breeder, talking to this breeder, and getting animals. And I'm like, "Wait a minute, how many snakes do you have now?" And she's like, "Uh, I have 53."

Huh.

And we're talking at this point like probably a two-month period.

Yeah.

And she was in the middle of doing a deal to buy nine animals from another guy. And I told her, I said, "Stop." I said, "Tell that other guy like, if there's one or two animals you really want in that group, get those." I'm like, "But you're buying way too many animals. You're you're already working overtime as a cop. you're going to get so overwhelmed dealing with 50 plus animals and she wasn't producing her own rodents at the time. So like already her food bill was you know I don't even know what her food bill was but it was couldn't have been cheap

a lot

you know she was still buying from Petco at that time because that she didn't have anybody you know a local rodent breeder to get an you know rodent from

rodents bro that's like $6 a pop dude. Yeah, I know. And I So I just told her I'm like, "Stop. You need to to think about what you have. You know, if you want, send me a list of all of the animals that you have so we can work out what makes sense and you might just need to sell some of the animals that you've gotten because it's just that's way too much. I can't even imagine. My first year, I think I had 20 animals and I was like, whoa, that's a that's a lot of snakes going from zero to 20, you know? I can't imagine doing 50 plus animals in in less than two months.

I I legit did that. I can't even can't even talk [ __ ] That was that was me. But I did it with multiple species. Like I was um like I went I went crazy. But this and luckily it was during a time where this was before [ __ ] COVID. Um the market was like social media was blowing up and so so was the market luckily. Um, but I learned, dude, I trust me, there was a moment where all the fun I was having just became not fun. And then I was so overwhelmed. Um, I remember going back to work after COVID, like, you know, trying to go back to work after COVID or before the whole thing shut down. I can't remember what it was, but I was so overwhelmed, dude. Like, it sucked cuz normally going home was like my favorite thing to do to go with the snakes, but it became like dreadful because I had snakes that just wanted to [ __ ] take my face off. Like I knew I wasn't going into like a chill moment like you know having big red ticks and white lips and scrubs and [ __ ] dog dude I don't I don't miss those days. I really don't but it's that easy to get [ __ ] weigh in over your head dude. Um and ball pythons right that's like if you got the space for them you know you could quick you could fill that rack really quick like you know and mind you with my OCD I just wanted my [ __ ] all the tubs filled. Like I I hated having empty tubs. And I'll never forget when I first got my first rack, I was like, I cannot wait to fill them. Like, I was on such a mission to fill them. Whatever it took, I wanted to fill them. And I know that is kind of like an excitement thing coming into the hobby because you can't believe you're about to have a [ __ ] wall full of snakes, but you are. And it will happen. Just don't buy groups.

Yeah.

It's exciting until you realize you have 40 tubs to clean every week.

Yeah. Yeah. Shout out to Dorian. Dorian follow you followed me too back then. Remember when I had the alpacas? Like I had a whole [ __ ] farm life going at one point, dude. And I loved it, don't get me wrong, but until I went back to work, all that whole fun [ __ ] was like, it wasn't fun. I was [ __ ] really difficult times. But dude, yeah, man. Slow down.

And I don't know. Like, and what's crazy is like I can't even tell you like if you are getting offered a group uh price on something and you all those animals you like, dude, I can't tell you not to do it if that's what you want to do. But mind you, like there's just questions that need to be asked. Um, there's tees that need to be crossed, eyes that need to be dotted when it comes to that. Mainly, I just want to know like if if like Herbert, if it was you, game on like let's do it. Verino reptiles. Sure. Like there's some names where it's like dude, okay, you know who you're talking to. But if you never seen the name before, connect the dots. That's all you have to do. Connect the dots with whoever you're talking to. Go ahead, Biggie. Mad mad props to breeders like Herbert, myself, MJ that tell people, "Hey, put on the brakes."

Yeah.

You know, I know the industry loves those uh buyers that are just coming in and they just go apeshit. I know that, right? But at the end of the day, man, if you build uh you know, I'm not saying that you have to check every customer to see how what they're buying and whatnot. Period. No one's doing that. But if we're talking to someone and helping them, right, we have to be honest, man. You have to treat people how you would want to be treated. At the end of the day, man, you got to be a good person, okay? You can't fill them up with with a bunch of shitty animals, bro. Or with a bunch of stuff that you're trying to unload, a bunch of stuff that you know that you're you're they're destined to fail. You can't do that. If you're doing that, you're a shitty [ __ ].

Well, I think we all know karma works in mysterious ways in this hobby. works very well.

So that [ __ ] right there, not only will karma come to you, but if somebody knows you deliberately set them up to fail and there's proof, it's 2025, buddy. There's podcast is everywhere. Social media is everywhere. You will be exposed.

And then if you get exposed to something like that, dude, like hello. Like

[ __ ] will not let that go. People don't let [ __ ] go in this. I'll tell you that right now. They do or they don't. It depends, you know. But when it comes to the welfare of the hobby and like, you know, selling [ __ ] up animals, you know, or whatever the case, you know, it's not good.

Here, you know, we're here for the long term, bro. At the end of the day, look, 20 years in this [ __ ] all right? Nobody could come out and say that I banged them in any way, you know, took advantage of them, misled them, told them, led them the wrong way. Period. Nobody. Nobody. Why? Because I won't do that [ __ ] you know. And I I know the same with MJ. I know the same with, you know, Herbert. You know, these guys, I've heard nothing but good things about about about Herbert. You know, he's here speaking it. I mean,

yeah,

that's how I feel, bro. If this is this is something I'm going to do for the rest of my life. All I have is my reputation.

And and Herbert, how many stories have you heard about [ __ ] doing other people dirty? Like, I'm I'm like I'm sure because people talk. people tell like they may not be open about it or say it on a show but they know you know how people converse in group chats or even converse face to face and Herbert I know grow growing your your brand in this hobby I know you came across some stories dude oh yeah

that's also another thing that you learn in the discords too because people when they're in a trusted group of of guys you know they'll they'll say hey I got screwed over by this person you know watch out for this guy I bought an animal from them and it was supposed to be het whatever and and it wasn't. You know, they got it shed tested and it wasn't. So, it's it's a good wealth of information in in a lot of these discords and you're going to protect people may not post that on Instagram, but they'll post it in a in a group of 100 people

and you'll protect your money by by this as well. You know what I mean? Um because at the end of the day, too, it's like I don't know, man. We all seen patterns in this hobby and there are people out there who have a certain pattern of like mistakes. Um and and what's unfortunate like [ __ ] dude you already see people not even five years in the game and their pattern is misiding most their ads on morph market which is crazy to me.

And what defines you at the end is what do you do when you make a mistake?

Own it.

You know

say I'm wrong. just say I was wrong. I [ __ ] up.

You know, animals, you you could you could offer credits on banging banging animals that you have that you're holding back. You could send partial, you know, send the money back. You know, at the end of the day, if you make a mistake and someone it buys something and it isn't what they bought, you have to take care of that. Period.

Let me ask you guys a question, okay? on this topic. Somebody buys a $5,000 animal from you. Okay. They get the animal, it doesn't eat for them. Would you take that animal back and get it eating for him or are they on their own? Like what what's Cuz I I don't I haven't had that situ. I feel like ball pythons are so like pretty [ __ ] like, you know, it is straightforward. You got a good good eating ball python, you know, it's going to eat with you, but we all know some scenarios out there, right? Um, but like what do you guys do if that animal has not eaten for that person yet? They're very open and communicated to you. They're letting you know. Um, what route do you guys personally take?

You want to go first, Herbert?

Sure.

Um, I I generally always try to get it eating in their place first. uh just because having it shipped back to me uh would potentially just cause it more stress and then it you know it may not eat after that. Um, so I always just ask the basic questions, you know, what what is it in? If if this is something that's potentially a pet animal, then I always will ask, you know, what is it in? Is it in an aquarium? Is it in a rack system? What are your temperatures at? Do you have enough hides? You know, all those basic questions. Um, you know, are you keeping it in on substrate? Are you keeping it on grass? You know, the that felt carpet stuff that you get at Petco. Like what do you know, what's the environment like? Um, and then if if they absolutely can't get it eating, um, I don't even know what I would do, honestly. I I haven't had that situation. Every time I've had I've had customers that have had feeding issues, I've always gotten it to eat on their end. Um, and it's usually just some kind of a husbandry issue. It's just one thing that they needed to switch. You know, maybe they were trying rats and, you know, I said, "Hey, give it mice." and they give it mice for a couple weeks and they'll they start eating mice and then they switch right over to rats. Sometimes it's as simple as that. If it were a $5,000 animal like you would initially ask, um I probably would allow them to send it back uh so I could get eating on my end because that is a huge amount of money to return to somebody if something goes wrong. If it's a $150 animal that went on auction,

um, you know, and it ends up dying, I can easily refund $150

and it doesn't hurt the rest of my life or not the rest of my life, but, you know, it doesn't affect my life. um selling somebody a $5,000 snake and not getting it eating and then it dies in their care, I have to give them their $5,000 back, you know, at least if it's in, you know, 30-day period, you know, not maybe not eight months later, but you know,

there has to be communication. There has to be clear communication between the buyer and the seller. And, you know, you can't reach out five months in and be like, "Hey, my snake's not eating." You know, and then it dies three days later and then they want their money back. you know, that's that's a completely different situation.

Yeah. I feel like you're

there's so many gray areas in this industry and you have to do what's best at that time, you know, with the information that you have.

Yeah. Go ahead, Big E. For me, man, uh whether it's a pet, whether it's an investment animal, whether it's uh a hundred or $5,000, um I have a system where I do not send out an animal unless it's feeding rhythm uh in a rhythm that I am fully fully fully um comfortable with. Um, if anything if any animal that I'm feeding and taking care of and and uh nurturing up to to its next home does anything weird, anything that that I find like um yeah, why why they do that? I I tag that animal u with with a question mark to to watch it even closer. Right. So again, a pet or an investment animal has to be rhythm in an amazing rhythm of of feeding and and I have to trust it to feed. Most of the time, like Kerber said, it's going to be fine, you know. Um it's very rare for an animal to to just, you know, die on you or or stop eating, you know. Um,

yeah.

What I would say is, uh, you know, an animal that, uh, go, let's say, goes over $3,000. If I, if I'm not in a financial situation where I'm comfortable, uh, replacing that animal or giving a refund, what I would say to people out there is that maybe you should keep that animal till it's 250 grams. You know,

you're protecting yourself more at the end of the day. Um, an animal that dies or stops eating after 250 grams is it's it's mostly rare.

Yeah.

Right guys, I mean, pretty much

a this is where I'm coming with this, guys. And I just use the not eating as one of many examples. Okay, there could be multiple things. There could be like the snake doesn't look right when you get it out of the bag or whatever the [ __ ] right? I've had conversations with some people who have spent like with this one guy that comes to mind. $23,000 on this one snake. Okay. Um which again that's for me that's [ __ ] wild. But $23,000 on a snake, like if I were to sell anything remotely at that level and I send it and I send it to somebody and they have a just any kind of question about anything within that first [ __ ] 24 48 hours or even that first week, I'm going to want that animal back immediately. Like I'm going to be like, let me just I because first and foremost, especially the person I'm thinking about doesn't really know what the [ __ ] they he's even doing today. Like respectfully. So, why would I want that animal even longer on that person's hands? You know what I mean? Especially if they're saying especially if they're saying something's happening that never happened on your hands, right? And so, this individual that I'm talking about, this and this is just one of many case, he didn't immediately go to the seller and tell him about the situation. Instead, he kind of like observed it and waited about two months. Okay? Um, which again, if you wait two [ __ ] months, if you wait two [ __ ] months to say anything, you're obsolete, dude. Like, like you

I'm not I'M NOT GOING TO SAY I'm blocking you, never talking to you. I, you know, I I'll hear what you have to say and I'll try to help you out, but I don't want anything to do with that animal coming back to me ever again because at this point, it has been with you for so long. And what you're telling me now could have happened who knows when over the last two [ __ ] months. You know what I mean? And and I feel like as a seller, you only have so long to tell me there's something up with the snake because

Go ahead.

Let me say this. I I need to know immediately if there's a problem. I'm with MJ 100%. If you tell me two months later, you're disqualified. I'm sorry. [ __ ] Who knows what you did to the animal? you didn't do your you didn't do your due diligence to get things exactly to where they were here. And let me say this, bro. When you buy a $23,000 animal or a $8,000 animal, you are taking a risk that said animal could die tomorrow. Okay? You're you're not playing uh this is not a game. Okay? That's everyone is taking a risk when you buy a very very very high-end animal. Okay, we are risking sending it to you, right? FedEx, Delta Dash, whatever it may be. And we have to guarantee that. Okay, we guarantee what? 30, let's say if you want to be a a great guy, you guarantee 30 to 60 days. All right, I I bet most people do that. But if you're listening, if you're listening and you're following the instructions of what the breeder is telling you to do, but simply put, if you buy an expensive animal, okay, a high-end animal, you are taking a risk that you have to own, okay? Period. That's that's how I feel about it as well. I mean, at the end of the day, there's not enough of that.

Yeah. And and again, like you know, I mean, I hate to say like the differences in value, but I mean, like Herbert says, I don't I don't have the means to replace that kind of money, you know, especially if I had that money like two months ago. You paid me two months ago for the snake, you know, and I already like especially with how with how

amount. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I already I just bought another basin. Like what are you talking about? It's gone. Like what are you sorry can't help you. But the end of the day, like somebody who has that kind of money to spend on a snake, like I don't want them to never be a customer again. Um, but there but there's also way like here's another thing too talking to his individual like I felt like he had uh buyer remor not what is it buyer like he like he almost he almost regretted his decision because how much money he spent on one snake and he he almost froze like he froze up. Didn't know what to do and then two months later oh there's something wrong with the snake. You know what I mean? Because [ __ ] almost think it's like the next day you're making something back off that steak you just got. No, dude. You're going to wait a long time. Like you cool, you spent 23K. See what happens in a year. You know what I mean? Like that's at minimum. You know, you don't and it's not even for sure. So So, so mind you, a lot of this [ __ ] sinks in after a purchase like that. And they're like, "Oh my god." You know what I mean? There's plenty. And I'm I'm kind of dealing that with now with the condos. Somebody who [ __ ] I told him like I I had a hold back and they're like, "How much? How much? How much?" And I'm like, "You're not going to I'm telling you, dude. This is going to be expensive. Tell him the price. He agrees to it. Starts paying it off. And then guess what? Start to sink in a little bit. It's a lot of money, dude." Yeah, it is. And his wife's all [ __ ] on the bumper. The whole wife thing. Yeah. We all know the EXCUSES THAT COME OUT OF NOWHERE. OH, I GOT TO GO TO THE VET. My [ __ ] my my dog needs braces. You know what I mean? I [ __ ] you know got got who knows he has a cavity it's going to cost me 11k the [ __ ] bro these excuses come from left and right field all the [ __ ] time

yeah they do

an important an important place where we could take this topic real quick guys like Herbert okay that have put real money into this [ __ ] bought a $16,000 animal the animal was 500 grams guys

okay your comfort level of spending you know for myself a $10,000 animal. Okay. Two years ago. All right. Not that I can't spend more. I can. It's just my comfort level of spending said money. The animal was 250 grams. You know, I I've told people straight up in more on Morph Market, listen, I'll buy an animal from you, but I need you to get it to 200 200 grams.

Yeah.

And if you don't want to do that, hey, I'll spend my money somewhere else.

Yeah. Thank you.

That's my comfort level. Yeah.

of spending that type of money period.

So 250 grams is not a lot. Just so you know.

I mean it says something, you know. It says something.

Yeah.

And and with that said, there's a there's a certain percentage. I don't know if 1% a 2% shot where that animal could croak tomorrow. It might be higher. I'm just hypothesizing. Right. I I last year I lost a $4,000 animal. It just bam. It just died, you know.

Yeah. But hey, but how much are the odds on your favor when you're selling that thing at 300 grams, Alio? Like you know pretty well

the [ __ ] the establishment of this snake once it gets that big and that you could sell that expensive, especially if someone buys it straight out the egg. Dude, tell them be patient. Let me get this thing all [ __ ] meaty and beefy and [ __ ] rocking and rolling and then you could have it that way. It's like, "All right, done deal." I showed you.

As long as you do what the breeder tells you to do,

right? You follow

uh what we do, right? You you'll be fine.

It's another thing too, man. Like self- neglect, you know, like like

just simply not following instructions sometimes could really cause a lot of these [ __ ] headaches, which again, like it's part of the game. I made mistakes, you know, but man, just listen to somebody. Like just and I feel like it's such a straightforward thing in this hobby. Like there's so many like just I feel like breeding is the easiest thing right now with ball pythons. Like you can figure it out. It's not that hard. Uh we all know what the hard thing is right now. Not hard for everybody, but not everyone can sell a snake right now, you know. Um and so let's kind of get to that topic, Herbert. you know, um, if somebody right now is growing amazing projects and they're excited about it, but nobody knows who the [ __ ] they are, what what route should they take? Like, what's a good way to kind of get like I mean, I guess this could lead to what we talked about earlier, Patreon, right? Getting into Patreons because you're showing your work, you know? At least I know with Trap Talk and you know, with what Amelio has going on, you could show all the work you have going on. Um, but like what are some other ways maybe that you could think of, Herbert, of like getting your name out there or like getting your projects um get some eyes on your projects uh being new in the hobby?

Obviously social media. Um, you know, getting on Instagram and Facebook, Tik Tok, if that's your thing. Um, but yeah, just posting. Um, I don't even post every day, you know, to to try to get eyes on my stuff. I should, um, but I'll be honest, I I hate it. I hate social media. I I don't post half as much as I should, but it is the big way of getting your projects out there, you know, just just show people, hey, look at this animal I made. Look at this animal I bought. You know, I just bought this animal. Here's how I intend to use him when he's up to size or she's up to size,

right?

Um, yeah. I mean, really just social media in general is a big way of doing it. Getting on lives like this, which you're only going to get on lives like this if people know who you are. So, you have to start on social media. You have to get in the Discords so then people start to know who you are so then people can find you.

I don't know how you do it without social media. I really don't.

Yeah, you can't.

Yeah. I mean, obviously hitting the shows is one thing, but like without having social media, who the [ __ ] going to remember you at a show? Like you gota

you got to have that connection where like, "Hey, I just followed you. I'll hit you up. Send me pictures of those snakes or whatever." You know what I mean?

Yep. Follow me on my email. But but it was crazy. It's like you you you have to be so obsessed about this in the beginning where like you're willing to go on every social media platform. Um I like I know I should be on TikTok even though I can't I I can't and I might regret it one day, but I could I'm like you, Herbert. I don't I'm not really built for social media. Like I'm I rather not like I I dream about the CD player days. You know what I mean? Like I just rather go back to the 90s sometimes. Um, but I know first and foremost it's I have to it's a part of my gig. It's part of my job. Like I without social media I don't get paid. You know what I mean? But that's I feel like that's for any brand nowadays. Like your brand's not going to be a brand without social media,

right? It's true.

What do you think, Alio?

I mean, social media, bro. I love social media, man. I love I love showing my passion, showing my animals. I [ __ ] love it, bro. At the end of the day, I mean,

I I don't I I want to go back for certain things, right, to the past, but bro, I love where we're at right now, except for the vitriol, right? That that I [ __ ] hate. But I mean, I I love the fact that I could go on on on your story and see all your condrs and see my stuff and see Herbert's Ultrams. I love I love social media. If you ain't doing social media, you tripping.

Yeah. But

but what's crazy is, dude, is like so like social media owns people's lives, dude. And what I mean by that, like I like the sauna, right? I try to do the sauna as much as I can, but I don't take my phone in the sauna for the most part.

Well, you can. You low battery mode. You could definitely do because trust me, people are on their [ __ ] phones. I see it. And like I can't help it to be observed. I try to just like close my eyes, but when I open, dude, I see how [ __ ] just zoned out people are on their phones. Like it's crazy to me, bro. Um and and and again, I'm I'm only on it so much because it's like my gig, but dude, I cannot wait to sign off, dude. Like, I can't wait to just [ __ ] throw my phone I usually just keep it in the room and I go want go in the living room and just shut it off a little bit because it's draining, dude. Social media is [ __ ] draining, bro.

I need to do

I need to do that myself. I need to be more present all the time. I I I get, you know, they they I I get a I get given a hard time about that. Uh I can't remember the last time I took a [ __ ] without my phone.

Oh, well, hold on. To be fair. To be fair, I mean, you're not living life unless you got your phone in the [ __ ] dude. I mean, you gota

Hey, think about it.

Bro, remember you remember how much you could think?

I had magazines, though, back in the day, bro. I used to have motocross magazines. Like I had I was it was almost like eating cereal staring at the box which I think we should bring that back even though I don't eat cereal but you guys remember back in the day growing up you looked you stared at the box while you're eating cereal and

you know there was games on the back of the box like tricks

some sort of maze or a cross word puzzle or something

toys and some of them bro like remember those days dude [ __ ] Hey, we give we give the phones a hard time and social media a hard time, but at the end of the day, we've always had something taking our our uh you know, our uh what whatever the word I'm looking for right now. Uh our attention, our attention.

It used to be the TV. Like when I used to eat, you know, dinner with my grandparents,

TV was on.

Yeah, me too. I grew up that way, too.

I mean, the news was on, right? So, I mean, now we each have our own device and we can watch whatever the hell we want.

Yeah.

I mean, I mean, I get it.

What's crazy is like, dude, I've I've gone so long cuz I grew up with like my dad had every [ __ ] NBA I had every Laker game on on every TV, every Raider game, every baseball. I grew up with sports on TV 247 growing up. And obviously, like cable, I don't even have cable in here no more. Like I I everything's all streaming now, right? So, I went a long time not having any sports [ __ ] around because I thought you needed cable for it. But then I found out about YouTube TV. And so now, now I got the NFL ticket. [ __ ] YouTube TV. And I have like now I'm in my room. Instead of having music, I just have some sort of sports game on or something. It's [ __ ] epic. I feel like I'm reliving like moments of me caring about sports. And mind you, I have two I have two boys I'm gonna be raising, too. So, like my mind's getting back into sport mode now because like I want my kids to be [ __ ] athletic and [ __ ] like that. But yeah, anyways, I didn't mean to go on a rant, but having your phone on the [ __ ] is automatic. I think you need to have your phone in the [ __ ] because it is downtime. You do you do think more clearly and it's a way to kind of get the [ __ ] out.

I don't [ __ ] know who the [ __ ] were we science.

Hey, hey, when I'm working the rodents, that phone ain't in my hand. Period.

[ __ ] I need to finish that [ __ ]

I need to finish and go.

Yeah. I Yeah. I don't I don't know. But I mean, let me ask you though, Herbert. Are you Because I don't I don't see you on social media all the time. Like, I really feel like you use it as needed. But you post every day or you try to post every day or not even?

No, I probably post once, maybe twice a week.

Yeah.

More and more if I'm hatching out really cool stuff.

Okay. Can you um let me know if you are vending Tinney this weekend? Are you going to be

Dude,

epic. And this is your fourth year, right?

Yeah. Three or four years. Yeah.

Cuz there was one year with COVID where you didn't do it, right? Or something like that.

Uh yeah, that was before

2020.

Yeah. I think we started vending in 20 21, right?

21 or 22. Yeah. So I think it was a spring show. Uh because we used Will's table. Will from RCR. We used his table. that one time and then we got our own table after that. We we subleted a table I think for two shows and then we ended up getting that table.

American Will, man. What do you know? We got Will in America now. Is that cool or

I don't know.

And [ __ ] Will's awesome.

Yeah.

You want to talk about somebody who's been around and that has nothing but [ __ ] wealth of knowledge, that's Will Mororrow, dude. I've always I've always respected that guy's game from the get-go. Just just the way he moves like the way he just like he's like he's he's less [ __ ] just all like all like work. He just shows you what he's doing. You know what I mean? Um

and he's helped a lot of people in this hobby, but shout out to Will. Um but you know, is it nerving at all now? You know, being this

I guess you're a veteran Tinley vendor at this point, but I mean, how do you feel going into Tinley 2025, the biggest Tinley of the year? um the way the market is right now, where just how how it is period. I'm not saying it's good or bad. I mean, it's your take, but how do you feel about Tiny going into it this weekend?

Uh I'm pretty excited, actually. Um I've barely listed any of my 2025 animals on Morph Market this year because

Wow.

I specifically set up my pairings so that they would require shed testing because I'm really trying to advance some projects.

Yeah. Um, and so that's a blessing and a curse. My season ran a little bit later this year than typical. And because I have to shed test everything, I'm just now sending off sheds to to get testing. I got, I don't know, maybe 20 or 25 back within the past couple weeks. I just sent 30 to to Charlie last week and I've already got another 15 saved up ready to go. So, I'm excited because I'm going to have a lot of animals at Tinley that have never been on Borf Market. Uh, which is not usually typical of how my fall tinleys are. Usually it's the other way around.

Wow.

So, hopefully it's a pretty good turnout. I'm I'm excited.

Let me say this, man. Uh I was putting my pairings in this weekend and with where the market is now and certain things certain things being saturated uh I'm going to use a lot of shed testing next year as well. I was real creative with my pairings. you know, uh, some of them I'm gonna depend on on shed testing and I'm going I'm going for some banger animals that, you know, these animals that are are being bred to those were were for something else were for to hit something simpler, right? That maybe the market needed that no longer it no longer needs period. So that Yeah, we're on the same page, bro. We're It sounds like, you know, you did it this year. I'm doing I'm doing it going in. I did some of that this year and I'm and I'm doing a lot of it next year.

So, we're thinking alike. Hopefully, more people are doing.

Yeah.

I hope so.

Well, let's I'm going to bridge this into this topic here because like for instance, I think I'm looking at two pretty wise purchasers purchasers in the in the ball python game and I think that like let's just say for instance, what stands out the most in this topic would be lace, right? Um, let's say I was in search of a combo that had lace in it, right? And if somebody had a lace animal available, for me personally, I would want to test with that animal. I would want something to show like for sure there's lace in there, right? Okay, cool. Is there anything out there that you guys feel like if you were going to buy it, you want to make sure it comes with the test?

For me, right now, all I could think of is lace. Um, I think every lace animal that's being bought or sold should be tested. Period.

100%. No matter what. Even if it's a holdback. Obviously, it's a hold bag. You should period.

What do you think? What do you think, Herbert?

Yeah, I I agree. I can't think of another shed off the top of my head. Um, Mandarin, when that test comes out.

Yeah. Um, recessives in general I think are good to test unless you unless you are buying them from somebody that you trust 100%. If you're dropping a thousand plus dollars on an animal from somebody you've never bought from before or maybe is not a established breeder in the industry. Maybe it's somebody that's only been producing snakes for a couple years. I'd shed test it.

Yeah. Cuz okay, let's just say it is somebody that we respect and we [ __ ] know, right? But Herbert, if you were inquiring about an ultra male lace, clown, whatever the [ __ ] 20 $12,000 animal, and you were like asked exactly like, "Hey, can I get a test with this lace?" And that person refused, are you going to give them that money?

Oh, no. If that person refuses, if that person,

if that person,

if you're not willing to spend a $40 on a on a shed test to sell me a $12,000 snake, lace isn't in it.

Huge red flag right there, you would say, right? Like, and what about you, Alio? Like, if you saw a combo out there that had lace in it and the seller told you, "I'm not testing it for lace. I don't that's your that's your deal." Would you would you spend that money there?

I'm not buying it because, you know, that [ __ ] happens all the time. It happened to one of my homies and you know what the breeder told him? Oh, I have too many snakes. I can't test.

For some reason, it doesn't test.

I just give a store credit. That's not good enough for me. [ __ ] that,

dude. The [ __ ] out of here.

Store credit. I'll give you some other piece of [ __ ] I don't

the [ __ ] out of here. That

means you have my money already on your side. You keep my money on your side. And if what I buy from you isn't what it is because you don't want to spend $40 or whatever it is, you, you, you're going to keep my money over there.

Anyway, like bro, like come on, man. I just don't see any advantages of not testing for sheds. Like, that's a huge, what we just talked about right now is a huge disadvantage to anyone out there who's working a combo like lace. Like, I think there's something, there's plenty more out there. Um, you know, we even like yellow belly. People think they got yellow belly sometimes and they don't, or whatever. Like, there's just multiple things out there that if you are selling an animal or expecting a sale animal in a, in a higher market or demographic of the market, dude, how do you survive without testing your sheds? Like, how?

Yeah.

I don't get it.

Well, I'll tell you something that I'm doing this year. Um, I've been hatching out some puzzle stuff this year, and this is really my first year hatching out puzzle combos other than pastel puzzles, you know, in the past couple years. And so what I did to help myself to identify is I'm sending their sheds off and getting every single gene that was in the pairing tested so that I can get confirmation of what every single one of those puzzles is so that I can look at them and be able to learn how to identify the genes in them because I have zero experience IDing genes in puzzles. And there's not a lot out there. Some of the combos that I made, there's nothing out there to compare to. So, I'm using shed testing to my advantage so that I can learn how to ID these things properly. And if I do sell some of them, I can send that with my customer and say, "Here, it's guaranteed to be this according to the shed testing results."

Yeah.

And and Okay. And let's kind of get to the point where you buy the animal, you shed test it, it's not tested to what you wanted to, to you want it to. Should that person get a refund right off the bat? Not a store credit. I'm not asking for a [ __ ]. If, if you sell a snake, okay, and it's not what it came back via RGI or through Charlie, does that, is that person entitled to a refund, not a [ __ ] credit?

So, you're saying if the customer sends off a shed test?

Right? Like, let's say it comes back different than what I shed tested or you saying I did shed test.

I buy the animal, not even asking for a shed test. I just buy the animal.

Okay. Okay. I test it and then the test comes back false for what I was hoping it wasn't going to, you know, you know what I mean, right?

Yeah. Yeah.

That person.

I mean, I guess it depends on what it is. Um, you know, we'll just, we'll use puzzle combo. Um, just that's kind of what we're talking about. Um, you know, if it's a five gene puzzle combo and I say that it's got yellow belly in it and it doesn't come back as yellow belly, I'm probably not going to give you a full refund for it missing yellow belly. Chances are you didn't buy it because it had yellow belly in it. But if it's a cypress and you bought it because you're really trying to get cypress into your puzzle projects, that's going to be a different story. And then me and the customer will, will figure it out. You know, either there'll be a, you know, a refund or I'll take the snake back and send them something else. You know, we'll figure that out. But it definitely has to be made right so that the customer feels like they won or not won, you know, they, they feel content.

But at the end of the day, when people are buying something like, you know, what if that person doesn't want, like, what if that person was on Morph Market and you had it ID correctly without yellow belly? How do you know he was going to buy it then? You know, maybe he did only buy it for yellow belly. Let, let me.

I, I feel like, I feel like if you are putting money for something and it comes back not as is, you're entitled to a refund. I don't give a [ __ ] what gene it is. It doesn't have that gene that I paid for. I paid for that. Like, I, I paid for it to be this on your ad and due to the test results, this is missing. Let me not, I mean, I, I think you could agree on a partial refund, but if the customer is not that happy about it, if that person feels some type of way, dude, get the [ __ ] 100% you should get your money back.

All right. Now, well, most everyone is shed testing stacked animals that have high value.

Yeah.

Okay. Um, before shed testing, there were terms that said they didn't guarantee every incomplete dominant in said animal. Okay.

Now to protect yourself as a seller. Okay. You should be testing an animal that is worth it for you to test, that is worth it, is a high value animal to ensure you're protecting your business. So this stuff won't happen because look at the end of the day, I don't want to have a customer unhappy. I'm gonna do my best to make that customer happy if I make a mistake. But

if I make a mistake knowing that I could have shed tested, I mean, at the end of the day, you know, I'm [ __ ] up all also on top of that, there is also a a chance that the shed test could be wrong, right? Let's say that half, that half a percentage.

Yeah. Right. Um, that's something you as a business also have to, to have to incur. I mean, it's, it's part of doing business. At the end of the day, we're doing business and business has a cost and not everything's going to be [ __ ] beautiful, you know? What do you guys say to that?

I just say if I could, if I could avoid any conversation about my brand being, well, MJ sold me this and it didn't have it in it. I don't want to be a part of any of that. That's all. If I sell you something and that isn't that gene's not in there and I know for a fact multiple shed tests, whatever, I'm so sorry. If you don't want the animal, I'll take it right back. That should be an option. Not like, well, okay, I'll give you a hundred bucks back cuz he didn't have yellow belly. Dude, you paid for a certain animal. And again, if that, if the buyer wants a refund, if the, if he's standing strong on it, then he wins. Give his [ __ ] money back. You, you, you [ __ ] up. And that's okay. What did we talk about earlier about [ __ ] up? You own it.

Yeah. But that's why going forward, most everyone, including Justin, uh, that's selling high-end animals is having them completely tested.

Tested. Yeah. No questions asked.

And certified.

Right. Again, so then this goes back to like, why would you spend money to somebody who does not want to test something?

Yeah.

You can, you can avoid all this. You can avoid everything that we're talking about right now if you just, if you just invest in somebody who believes in shed testing.

And by the way, guys, I'm going to tell you guys this. I waited a long time. I, I'll use myself as an example and MJ knows this. I waited a long time to be able to trust the head monsoon test. I, I waited a long time for a mon, man, monsoon test period. I was there raising the animals, you know. Guess what, man? Once the animals were tested, they sold and they sold for a good price, a great price. I made my money.

I didn't try to sell someone a a poset monsoon, you know. it. Oh man, this one has the markers, you know. I didn't try none of that [ __ ] when none of my people. I waited. I fed the animals. I tested them and I made my money and I, and I did well. You could do that. Put the time in. Test the animals. Don't try to bang people.

Put the time in. Time. Patience.

Yeah. It's always on your side, which is a lot easier said than done. Like, I get it. It's an exciting game. We want results, but just can't rush some of this [ __ ] dude.

Yeah.

Guys, some of the animals that I thought were going to be hit,

we're not hit.

I mean, you can't, you know, you can't tell someone, "Hey, this one's going to prove for sure." Test it, bro. Test it. Test it. Don't bang people.

I'm definitely with that similar situation with paint stuff. I have some Ultramell stuff that I think is, well, that I hope is hat paint, and I'm in that same exact situation. Some of them have markers and so I hope that they prove, but I'm not going to sell them as hats because I see markers.

Yeah.

It's too risky.

What? Okay, let's talk about paint because like, you know, first and foremost, I found out about paint through Dave Leon years ago and then I found out one of my favorite people in the ball python game, Chad Hulker, super heavily into paint and then I started seeing some stuff from Chad with paint when I started liking. But catch us up to speed here. Where's paint at right now? Um, because I feel like I'm like, I haven't seen what I want, what I'm looking for yet. Like, I've seen some cool potential [ __ ] but I'm waiting to get smacked in the face by something paint. Um, maybe I haven't seen it yet. Maybe it's out there. And if so, inform me, any of you guys or in the chats. But where do you think, what do, what do you think it's going to do? What gene do you think is going to do it for paint and take it to the next level? Like, if you were to predict, let me guess. Ultram.

I think it's going to look good in Ultraml. Uh, I'm hoping that we see it this year. Uh, there's a handful of people that are in the project, so I'm, I'm hoping to see it. I think it's going to look really good. I want to see it in puzzle. Um, Chad Hulker, he's heavily working that into puzzle. I know Azie is as well. Um, and that could be really cool. But I don't know. I don't, I honestly don't know that much about paint. It's just something that I wanted to dabble in. So I bought a couple double hat males and I've just been slowly working them into my Ultram stuff and in my puzzle stuff. And then we'll just see what, what we can get.

What about you? That spot-nose yellowbelly paint clown that we highlighted uh a few weeks ago on the show. That thing changed my mind.

Who, who, who produced that again? Can you remind me?

Uh, MB MCBR meant to. He he brought it up. Who's the breeder that hit that? Let us know in the chat.

I thought you said we brought it up on the show or something.

We did, but I don't remember who. I don't remember who.

We showed it. I feel like we showed it off, didn't we?

We did. We did.

Oh, Rec Room. Rec Room. All right, let me, let me look at that again.

I don't remember which show it was.

Um,

yeah.

So, I'm sorry. Remind me, uh, Herbert, where you, where you're taking your, uh, your paint stuff, like what, what's the direction you're headed towards it?

Uh, both Ultraml Clown and, uh, puzzle.

Paint puzzle.

Oh, puzzle. Okay. Um, pastel. Where's this snake at? I'm trying, I'm trying to find it. I'm sorry.

Yeah, it was on, it was on Dorian's show. Hey, somebody please in the chat send me this snake on the, uh, in DMs if you're listening. Wait, hold this over here. Hold on.

Yeah, Dorian could probably send it real quick.

Oh, I found it. Okay, I found it. All right, let me show this off real quick. Um, yeah, I don't know. Let me see. Let me, I want to pick your guys' brain here. I want to. Okay, so spotnose yellowbelly paint clown. Yeah, that's pretty ridiculous. It's nice.

It's pretty wild. Like, there's a lot going on. Snake.

See, that does it for me.

And no offense, this is a shitty video. Like, I, I'm not, not to take anything away from the Rec Room people, but like, if Leviathan had this snake or [ __ ] goddamn Canova, like, like, see, like, this needs good lighting and we could really see what the [ __ ] going on with this snake. Um, unfortunately, this video is not it, but yeah, hopefully we get some better shots of this snake. Now, now let's add, let's add a color,

right? Uh, a color mutation that won't affect that pattern,

which would be what?

Platinum. Ultraml into that.

Ultraml. Yeah. Desert Ghost is going to affect the pattern. Uh,

hypo. Hypo is going to affect the pattern a bit.

What?

Okay. Oh [ __ ]. Um, but, uh, okay. What were we just talking about right now? [ __ ] Oh. Oh, I gotta ask you with hypo. Are you completely staying away from hypo because how crazy you are with Ultramale or are you working hypo at all? Um, Herbert.

I'm not really working hypo in Ultramale, but I have a ton of hypo stuff. Hypo clown, hypo puzzle.

Nice.

Those are big directions that I'm going.

I love hypo.

So puzzle.

Hypo was one of the first recessives that I got into.

Nice. Respect. Puzzle is a pretty strong project for you from what I'm hearing, right?

Yes. This year was huge. I made a lot of double heads puzzle stuff this year. Puzzle Ultra. Um, what else? Hypo puzzle. Um, I potentially have some triple head, uh, DGanthic puzzle stuff with Entie and Calico in the mix. Um, made my first Exanthic puzzles this year. Made two of those. Both females, unfortunately. Needed some males, but we'll take what we can get.

Damn. Puzzle.

Exanthic. Did you post those? You did. Here they are.

Uh, yeah, they're in there.

Wow. Holy [ __ ].

Yeah, I hit puzzle pretty hard this year. Really trying to boost up that project.

Are you happy about Pastel being in the mix? Because it does, this doesn't look bad. I don't think this looks bad at all. I think

I love it. Yeah, I think pastel.

I know, I know. The cool thing right now is to hate pastel, but it's amazing in puzzle. I'll take it in my puzzles every single day.

It needs it. It needs it in puzzle.

Yeah. I don't think, I don't think I think that's kind of an an old era of hating on pastel. Um, not that people are all like [ __ ] investing and crazy into it, but it's just like, you can't hate on it. Like pastel's needed. We all know that at this point. Um, not, not in everything, but in, in an exanthic project, I all day every day for sure. And puzzle. Puzzle and Pastel go really good together for sure.

100%.

Herbert, I'll tell you this, man. Um, I, I got some OD and super OD double head ultra puzzle stuff. I wish I had some pastel in there, too, bro.

Yeah.

Straight up. I'm telling you straight up. I, I love pastel and ultra.

It looks good.

Yeah. And an axanthic. So,

yeah. Like, I'll take both. I'll take some Ultram stuff without pastel and then I'll take some with, you know, use them differently. But me and MJ were at, uh, Josh's table in Daytona last year, not this one, the prior year. And bro, we have both of them here in our hands. I'm sorry, but the pastel one, the pattern was [ __ ] insane, bro. There's no way around it. I mean, yeah,

I think, I think it's a must.

I'm gonna have to, I'm gonna have to get it in there.

Definitely. I think it depends what jeans you put in there too. Time will tell, you know. We haven't seen anything with Ultra Puzzle yet, really, you know. But maybe, maybe blackhead Ultra Puzzle doesn't look good with pastel.

Yeah.

Maybe it does.

It's all part of the game.

What's your take on Sunset?

On what?

What's your take on Sunset? Do you work any or?

So, I have mostly sold all of my Sunset stuff. Um, I've been working with Sunset since 2019. Finally hit a Sunset Clown this year for the first time and, uh, that was with a, kind of with a breather alone with a buddy. So, that's going, um, he got that. Um, but I kept back a male Sunset hat clown and that's going to be going to Ultramale stuff. That's the only thing that I want Sunset in is my Ultramale project. Um, this year, this coming season, uh, I have a shot at Sunset Ultramale Clowns. Um, I've got a male triple hat that is going to a red stripe Mojave Krypton double head Ultramale Sunset. So, fingers crossed. It's long odds, but

I'll even take the Krypton versus the the clown. I'll take either.

Sunset should be kissing Ultram's feet right now for sure.

I agree. Ultramill's like been the sunset savior.

Um, you know, which, what, which I mean for now, I mean, I'm sure there's gonna be other stuff that helps Sunset, but finally, I feel like anytime I see an Ultra Male Sunset, I'm, I'm happy with it for sure. I'm happy for that, too.

Another, another moment. Hey, you weren't really mad when that Sunset clown left, huh?

I don't know. It's

I love you guys. I love you. I'm sorry.

Kind of pretty.

She's still here. She's going with me to Tinley.

No, dude. Any, any double recessive is an, it's cool to hit like not easy to hit, but it's like, goddamn, bro. It's like, all right, that's cool. See you later.

I mean, you know, keep it real. Keep it keeping it 100. Hey, even the sunset lovers, they don't get mad when we attack Sunset Clown. So,

first Sunset Clown ever sold was 60K, bro.

Yeah.

Crazy.

Many, many of them.

And, and that person made that money back quickly.

Yeah.

So, all right. Wrap-up topic of, uh, the, uh, episode. I'll go first and then Big E will.

Hey, one more thing. Sorry.

The first, uh, the first animal so stolen at, uh, at your homie's table was a sunset clown. All right. So,

bro, that's an amazing distinction right there.

I had to. I'm sorry. I had to.

And you know what's funny, too? I was remembering. Remember we vlogged at, uh, we vlogged at Josh's table and you had the keys and you're like, I'm gonna open this animal, but I'm not going to steal it.

No klepto.

No klepto. Oh [ __ ]. All right, Herbert. Uh, pretty straightforward, bro. Um, obviously throughout the, uh, five, six years of you being a brand in this hobby, um, if you were to start over, would you do anything differently? And what would be advice for anyone starting today? Like, what would you?

Oh, yeah. I would do a lot of things differently. Um, finding a good mentor from the beginning is key to doing this industry, right? When you're left to your yourself, you're just going to make bad choices. You know, you're going to get into every single project that there is because every project is cool in its own right. Um, and that's what I did when I first got in. You know, I bought, I dabbled in a little bit of this, a little bit of that. Um, you know, I made all the typical mistakes, you know, that everybody makes. You know, way too many males, not enough females. Uh, a lot of one-to-one pairings. You know, I, I have to breed this male to this female and that's the only female that he can go to because he's the only one in this project and she's the only one in that project. You know, those are things that are very easy to make the mistake in doing, but also very easy to get advice to not do. And MJ left. He abandoned us. I'm waiting for. I'm writing down my question, bro. I can't even help right now.

What? Uh, you know, it was supposed to be Amelio asked us his [ __ ] question, but apparently there's silence and Yeah, that's awkward. What do you ask your question?

You asked your question and then you abandoned us. We didn't know what to do.

I got to let somebody in the house, dude. What the [ __ ]

All right. All right. So, what's gonna look better, bro? Um, just, just a guess, you know, an educated guess because you're really good at the with the Ultramo game, right? What's going to look better, a stranger ultra sunset clown or a Cypress Ultra Sunset Clown?

Cypress.

Okay.

Both are going to look good, but the Cypress is going to look better.

Yeah, I agree. [Music]

That's it. That was your wrap-up topic. Goddamn. Yeah, man. Just simple. Nice and simple.

All right. Well, [ __ ] Herbert. Um, I got some hot seat questions for you. Round two before we let you go. So, yeah. Shout out to everyone in the chats, guys. Let's get the likes up. We'll get the hot seat questions on the way for Herbert and then yeah, we'll call it a [ __ ] day or night and then I'll see you at Tinley this weekend. So, um, all right. Here we go. You ready, Herbert? Hot questions.

All right.

Least favorite incomplete dominant? Can't say spider or albino.

H. Um. Hm.

Bamboo.

If you were to start from scratch, what would be the first morph you would buy?

Cypress.

Favorite super incomplete dominant.

Super hurricane.

One thing you would not put into Ultram.

Mojave. What's one thing somebody should consider before spending a thousand plus dollars in the hobby?

What's one thing they should consider?

Yeah. First thing to consider before dropping big money in the hobby.

Who they're buying it from.

Freedom Breeder or ARS?

Both.

Again, Freedom Breeder or ARS? Got to pick.

I have both. Um, Freedom Breeder.

All right. All right, last but not least, coolest reptile network in the world.

Man, I want to be so mean.

Go ahead, dude. Do it, dude. I, I [ __ ] dare you, Herbert. Be mean, bro. Bring it on.

Can I say Reptiles Unplugged?

Oh, why would you say that, dude? What the [ __ ]

Oh, come on.

Why would that talk podcast?

All day, every day.

Yeah, bro.

I would say when they first came out, maybe.

I don't like being. That that podcast [ __ ] tanked. Holy [ __ ]. Talk about rock bottom. All right. Go ahead, Biggie.

All right, bro. You know what's up. You know what's coming. So, at the end of the day, you know,

I've been dreading your questions.

Yes. Yes. Let's go. All right. So, I'm going to give you six options. You're going to pick three. Okay. These are animals that you can't be without, you know, in your collection. All right. Ultra, clown, puzzle, hypo, DG, and axanthic. Pick three.

Ultramale. Clown and puzzle.

All right. Now, drop one.

Oh.

Clown.

Okay. All right. So, I'm going to give you three, three amazing combos and you're going to pick two. DG Pompeii, Confusion Spots, Yellow Belly, DG Exanthic Clown, Super Chocolate, DG Hypo Clown. Pick two. Uh, the third one and the first one.

Okay. Now pick one. [Music]

First one.

Okay. Yeah, the animal's amazing. All right. Um, incomplete dominance. You got six. Blackhead, red stripe, cypress, hurricane, stranger, and red head. Pick three.

Stranger, Cypress, and Hurricane.

Drop one.

Stranger.

Damn. 16K, bro. [ __ ] that. 60K.

You made that money.

I got my money back. I don't give a [ __ ]. All right. Uh, last one. Ultra sunset. Ultra puzzle. Ultra stranger clown. Ultra monsoon. Pick two. On the first few again.

Ultra sunset, Ultra puzzle, Ultra stranger clown, Ultra monsoon. Pick two.

Ultra sunset and stranger. Ultra clown.

Pick one.

That's up. This really teaches people, bro.

Yeah, I have to go Stranger Ultra Clown.

Damn.

Yeah, might be more of a long, maybe a longer project, maybe. I don't know.

Yeah, we didn't talk about any of my Ultra Male clown stuff tonight.

Well, [ __ ] what? Say something, Herbert. What you want to talk about? Go ahead. I'll give it to you right now. What do you want to talk about?

I just want to talk about my Ultramale Clown project. Uh, that's like 50% of my whole collection. Um, really excited for this next season. Um, since I got those original animals from Marshall, I have been heavily focusing on getting good genes into the Ultramale Clown project. And this next year, um, depending on how I choose to pair, I should have anywhere from 10 to 12 shots at Ultramale Clowns. Um, and we could hit all sorts of crazy things. Blackhead, Stranger, Ultramale Clowns.

Wow.

Blackhead Hurricane, Ultraml Clowns. Uh, I don't even know. Lots of stuff. Lots of Ultram clown combos. A lot of world first stuff.

I, I love blackhead and ultramale, dude. And, and I don't.

I don't think I've seen blackhead and ultram clown combos yet.

Um, couple people have hit the blackhead ultramale clown. Uh, Portuguese Pythons did.

My buddy, my buddy Kevin from, uh, K&L Constrictors, I think is his business name.

KL, you said this year.

What was it? K&L. You said.

K&L. He he would be a good one to have on. He's working the Ultramale clown stuff pretty heavy, too.

He's in the chat right now.

Yeah, I, I will say Ultramale Clown [ __ ] is like, I can't wait to see more of that stuff for sure. I'm going to be all over your bumper, uh, this coming season to see what happens. And, uh, yeah, can't wait to have you back, Herbert. Um, I will say, man, you, you've definitely been [ __ ] down for a trap since day one. Um, even when I was going through the thick of [ __ ], I always could always count on you, bro. So, I want to say thank you so much for your support and, and also you support real [ __ ] in this hobby. Like, you know, we were talking about Will Moros and the other people that you support, man. So, like, we need more Herberts in the hobby, bro. For sure. And, and, and I [ __ ] I give you all my respects in the world, dude. I, I feel like you're going to be doing some major, major things, um, here real soon, dude. So, always a pleasure.

You got a, you got a homie here now, dog. So, know that.

Yep.

We're official now. We're friends on Instagram. [Laughter] Um, HB Reptiles on IG, that's the best place for people to follow you.

Yes, I'm on Facebook is Facebook, too. You send me a friend request, I'll most likely accept it, but I really don't do anything on Facebook.

You're going to be at the same spot as always at Tinley. That right there towards the left of the show, right there at the.

Right next to Vipe and Next Level Displays.

Yeah, guys, if you're going to be at Tinley this weekend, please make it a point to go by Herbert's table, HP Reptiles. Um, definitely [ __ ] somebody who should you should give your time a day to because he's, he got some amazing work. So, check him out. Find the link description below. But give it up. It's a wrap for Herbert HB Reptiles. See you this weekend, buddy.

Have a good night, Herbert.

You, too, man. Appreciate it.

I'll see you later, guys.

See you this weekend. All right. Later.

All right. See you.

What a guy. Shout out to Herbert.

Integrity.

Definitely got me on that last, uh, hot seat question, [ __ ]. But, uh, you know, it's my boy, bro. What are you gonna do? And, uh, looking forward to Tinley again. Looking forward to seeing what he has set up. And, uh, but yeah, what are your overall thoughts on tonight, Biggie? I, the guy's great, man. I love, uh, you know, how ethical the guy is and, uh, going to get to know him better now. Got amazing stuff coming.

Yeah.

Those are the type of people I like, bro.

Yeah. Yeah. I feel like if you want to get excited about Ultramale, you should go follow HB Reptiles.

Oh, yeah.

For sure.

He's definitely [ __ ] hyping that [ __ ] as much as it deserves to be hyped. And I'm really, it's crazy. It's, I, you know, because I did forget about how much he's in the thick of Ultram Clown stuff. Um, but also gives me a better reason to invite him back once he starts producing all this [ __ ]. Then we can really dive in and look at it, you know, because I want, I want to see a Blackhead Stranger Ultram Clown for sure. I would love to see that.

We ain't messing around, bro, with these recaps and with who we're bringing on.

No, man. It's all, all influential, bro. All motivating. Cannot wait. So, and yeah. Hey, real quick. If you are working with some sick [ __ ] and you, you think you, uh, deserve to be on a Monday night, please hit up me or Alio or anyone who knows us. All right. We are, we are seeking for talent right now. Um, but yeah, I appreciate it. Bigg E, Top G, Builder Reptiles. Highly recommend subscribing on Instagram or just if you really want to take [ __ ] serious, dude. Go join this man's Patreon for sure. All right. Uh, but thank you so much. Give it up. IT'S A REF. TOP G, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.

GOOD NIGHT, GUYS. Good night, bro.

All right, man. Have a good. Thanks. Thanks, bro. Appreciate it. All right, great episode, guys. Appreciate all the love and support, man. And again, if you are going to NBC Tinley, let me know, dude. Let's link up. This will be one of the last Tinleys I go to for a long time. You know, I got my second, uh, baby on the way here shortly right after Tinley. So, no traveling for MJ as far as any shows for a while. So, if you are going to NBC Tinley, let me know. Like to link up with you if we haven't met yet. And again, go check out HB Reptiles at Tinley this weekend as well. But yeah, that's it, man. Call a night. Looking forward to getting ready, uh, for Tinley this week. It's going to be big. Shout out to all the sponsors. Find all my sponsors links in the description below. And if this was your first time watching, if you enjoyed tonight's episode, before you leave, please hit that like button for the homie Herbert. If you really rocked with this episode tonight, hit that like button. Let's get the likes up. And if you hit that subscribe button, hit that notification bell, you'll be reminded of every episode released out of the network seven days a week, especially these Monday nights. New Brit on the block that recaps amazing next level. All right, so appreciate all the love and support, man. Again, you guys are awesome. Check out my sponsors. Have a good night. See you here tomorrow for On the Tree Tuesdays and I'm out. Cheers. Sorry for the interruption, folks, but a quick word from our sponsors.

Hi, I'm Devin.

I'm Theresa. And we are Prog Morphs. We are based in Czech Republic, a small country in the middle of Europe.

We really love animals that revolve around multi-recessive projects. And one of our very favorites is Hypo. We're really looking forward to clutches that are coming this season. And some of those are Hypo Clown, DG Clown, Hypo DG Clown, and one of our all-time favorites, Hypo Puzzle.

Hope you enjoyed the next episode on Trap Talk, the greatest reptile network in the world. If you guys want to see next level cutting edge ball python projects, please make sure you head over to their Instagram to follow all their amazing work and head over to their website to see what they could possibly have available by heading over to progmorps.com. Thank you again Devin and Theresa for bringing some of the biggest heat worldwide in the ball python game. If you want to be organized, if you want to be cutting edge in the ball python game, then you don't want to miss this. Shout out to today's sponsor and that's Clutch. Number one ball python organization app in the game. No better place to start off than by using this app. Clutch is an organization app that helps you organize all your ball python projects. It also helps your peers and your fellow community members look at what you possibly have coming for the upcoming ball python season, what you have currently available on Morph Market. It's so awesome to be ahead of the game by using organization app like Clutch. Thank you so much the entire Clutch team, amazing team over at Clutch. If I were you, I would head over to Clutch's Instagram account. And I would also head over to their website, try it out, see how it works for you, but especially if you're just now coming into this before you build your reptile collection. I would do it organized and I would do it with Clutch. Thank you, Clutch, for being so amazing. Excited to hear what Clutch has to bring in the near future.

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The Disadvantages To NOT Shed Testing In The Ball Python Game | NBB The Recap Live

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