Transcription
I'm not part of a Muslim community. I'm part of a British community. If Muslims come here and want to do harm to our country, then they should not be allowed in this country. There are Muslim communities in this country who bring shame on the rest of the Muslims. They were because they were white and they were non-Muslim. It's disgusting.
"How many of you guys are there, Andrew?"
"There's a lot of Muslims like me who don't want to be associated with the Pakistani."
"That's great news. Covering your face has got nothing to do with religion. A burka has nothing in the Quran says you should."
"Is that right?"
"For me, there is a sentiment of anti-white racism here in the country. Now, Shabbana Mammud, she's been quite strong."
"I don't think she's been strong at all. She's talking about controlling illegal immigration. We want it stopped. You must assume that there is a Pakistani vote base that she wants to protect. I'd like to see visa bans for uh Pakistan."
"There are some Tory MPs. They scream Islamophobia. For God's sake, can you do me a favor? If you get value from these conversations, hit subscribe."
"Bloody hell, it's all happening for you. Like, everyone's talking about you all the time. You're everywhere. Every time I open a thing, you're there. Um, first, let's just start with why did you why did you leave uh Tories go to reform?"
"Uh, well, so many things. Um, number one, number one reason was Nigel. Um, I met Nigel personally and I've been watching him for a few years, you know, and I thought I never disagree with him. You know, a lot of his policies, a lot of the things he says, I never disagree. I used to watch him as an MEP and I'd be like, you know, he really tells it how it is. And I that was admirable for me. Um, and I met him and he didn't disappoint in person, even more. And I really wanted to be part of a party where there's a real leader, you know, where not no one's always plotting who to get rid of or who not to get rid of, you know, where there's real leadership and you don't question that leadership you because not because you're whipped to, but because you trust it and you trust their decisions and it's very nice to be in that."
"As with any leader, there are reservations to the left of him and to the right of him. from the right. A lot of people are concerned that he seemed to be uh okay with a lot of things that some people wouldn't be okay with, such as trans people in prisons, things like that. Some say he's gone."
"That wasn't him. Sorry to correct."
"Go on."
"No, go on."
"No, that wasn't him. That was um one of uh she was a prison uh girl. Uh prison, what's the title? Um"
"she was running a prison."
"Yeah."
"And that was her decision. And actually, it was more nuanced than that. She said, you know, number one, it's very rare. Um and and I don't agree with I think, you know, women should be in women's prison and men should be in men's prison. But she said, 'If you do come across kind of a transgender woman who's fully um transitioned, what do you do with that?'"
"Yeah."
"Um but that wasn't our policy and that wasn't him who sanctioned it. She said it on her own valition."
"Right. And but didn't he then say that he wasn't he said something afterwards, I'm sure."
"Not that I heard. I don't think so. He's quite clear when it comes to gender issues."
"Okay. Well, fair enough. Some people still say he's not strong enough on deportations. Others say, 'Oh, he's just saying that to get in,' which is a would be a dishonest thing to say. Where do you stand on that?"
"So, what we have now is successive governments um who have decriminalized illegal entry into our country. Uh because what happens is you're an illegal migrant until you come on a boat, you land, they say the word asylum, and they're treated as asylum seekers and all the benefits that come with that. But actually, we do have the Borders Act that makes it a crime to uh come here illegally. But only 1% are prosecuted because once you claim asylum, it neutralizes the the offense. So Nigel's very clear that if you come to our country illegally, you will be deported."
"Mhm."
"Um in terms of our immigration policy on the other sense, uh as you know, Andrew, we have people who come here. Um who are not a net benefit to the country, who come here to claim benefits, some come don't even like our country, some you could say hate it. Um and so we would create a visa for people who are here on ILR um indefinite leave to remain. And that visa has basic conditions and if you're here on ILR you can apply for them and if you've been here long enough you can apply for citizenship. I've met people who have been here for decades on indefinite leave to remain but they're like oh I don't want to be British. Uh you know why are you here number one and why should we be paying you any kind of benefits if you if you don't want to be British."
"On the other side, people are uh criticizing Faraj at the moment because of the school accusations which which came up a couple of years ago and I think they've resurfaced now uh about uh mostly Jews but I think to black people as well some of the things he you know the very things that people accused him of and we all said well hang on there's no evidence of that. They're saying there actually is evidence of it. Where do you stand on that?"
"I think it's the most ridiculous uh political uh smear ever. There's absolutely no proof of it. He's denied it. Um, and and who can remember that far back. I I I listen, I can only go on my experience and I've never seen one bone, one inkling of racism on the contrary from Nigel. Uh, so I actually don't believe what they're saying. He in person he's so warm and so caring and it doesn't really matter where you're from. I mean, I've seen him interact with people from all across the world."
"Um, yeah."
"It might be that that I mean, you would remember it if it was that bad. I mean the suggestions are he was waiting outside of kind of Jewish uh assemblies and things like that. I don't know why they have Jewish assemblies in the first place. I don't think we need to have different assemblies for different kinds of people but waiting outside and making hissing things. You would if that if that is true you would remember."
"Yeah. If that is true you would remember but there are also a few a lot of students who have come out and said they don't remember that from him. So you you do have the counterargument. Um and I think there's a lot of press that's just focused on it. I mean they're just going to go hard on the racist thing uh because really that's all they've got. So, they're just going to keep plugging plugging. They're going to find people who are going to be like, 'Oh, I remember this. I remember that.' And it's easy to remember and say that something was said without any proof."
"Maybe he was a racist as a teenager and and isn't now."
"I don't think he was a racist when he was a teenager. No."
"Just has a lot of"
"I feel I feel I feel Nigel's the kind of person that's always had strong beliefs. And I don't think he was a racist when he was young. No."
"What do you think about um um Shabbana Mimmude?"
"Um she's been quite strong with Labor. I mean against immigration for example. Does that to an extent neutralize reform?"
"I don't think she's been strong at all because if you actually look at the new immigration policy, she's talking about controlling illegal immigration. We want it stopped. So she's still not saying that if you land on our shores, you are a criminal for coming here illegally. She's saying actually you're going to get a two year a 2year fully inclusive stay in hotels and it will be reviewed every two years. um there should be a bar on claiming asylum if you come here illegally and they can't do that obviously because they're so wedded to the ECR. They're so wedded to international treaties and international relations that they don't want to leave it. They'll do everything. They'll take tinker around the edges. Um but they won't do what's absolutely necessary and I don't think you should have any claim to any asylum if you come here illegally. For me that's the only deterrent."
"You should know that when you end when you ride get on that boat in France, you come here, you have no chance of anything. I saw you make a point before about Mimmud's Pakistani base support. What does that to those who aren't familiar with that kind of stuff? What what does that mean?"
"No, I mean I she spoke about also she spoke about uh visa bans from certain countries. I think she mentioned Angola, DRC and Congo."
"I mean only a handful of people from those countries come on those boats. I'd like to see visa bans for uh Pakistan because they are refusing to take some of the rap Pakistani uh rape gang offenders. Um which is the biggest most disgusting scandal in our in our country and we give them legal aid. We give them sorry we give them yeah I think we do give them foreign aid and not legal aid and I'd like to see visa bans for the Pakistani uh countries but actually I haven't seen that from her. that would be for me strong on immigration also we have a lot of people coming on boats uh from Pakistan and in fact she's opened new routes where communities can sponsor people to come into this country um and there's no one vesting that community sponsorship there's no one saying who that community is how do we know the communities in Rodale um are not going to sponsor more people to come in through that new route"
"um there's a lot of for me it's all virtue signaling it's headlines But you know, the boats still keep coming in."
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"And is this to do with having a kind of Pakistani support base that she can't offend lest she lose votes?"
"I mean, that is the that is the assumption, right? Or else you'd crack down on it. You know, you'd be like, this is the most disgusting thing and anyone involved and any country um that's not taking back their criminals or has to be dealt with. But I'm not seeing that from her. So you must assume that there is a Pakistani vote base that she wants to protect. I mean we do know that Labour MPs and Labour councilors did overlook it for decades. I mean I've spoken to victims there was you know an around it um which is unacceptable and the only assumption you can lead to is they were protecting something. They were protecting their position."
"Where does all of this place you as a as a on a personal level as a Muslim woman? It's very It's relatively rare that they will publicly speak out. I've had a lot of ex-Muslims on, for example, someone like Yasmin Muhammad who will often say things like an ex an atheist Muslim or a secular Muslim is a dead Muslim because they'll be killed or or whatever it might be. Are you in trouble? Do people push against you in in the Muslim community for for saying you don't want immigration from those kinds of areas?"
"I mean, I'm I'm not part of a Muslim community. I'm part of a British community. Um, I don't see myself different to any other British person. And if Muslims come here and want to do harm to our country, if they want to come and harm our girls, um, if they want to commit terrorist attacks, then they should not be allowed in this country, no matter where they're from. And if they're Muslims, of course, I'm going to call it out because there are Muslim communities in this country who bring shame on the rest of the Muslims. Um, you know, those girls that were raped by the Pakistani Muslim rape gangs, they were raped because they were white and they were non-Muslim, you know, and it's disgusting. And I'll never defend that. And it's got nothing to do with the religion. For me, religion is a a source of good, you know, it's not it it's for me it's there's something else above me. Um, and it's not all about me."
"That's interesting. I'm I'm an atheist Jew, I would say, but I'm I agree with you. How does that work? An atheist Jew."
"Well, exact point actually. It's a very good point. I guess it's uh ethnically and culturally if you do I've done the DNA tests and they say Ashkenazi Jew. So 95% Ashkanazi Jew. So So it seems to be some form. I don't know if it's a variant of whiteness. I don't know enough about race theory and those kinds of things. But racially there's that and then there's ethnically or the cultural side of"
"I do love the Jewish culture."
"Well, that's nice. Love it. Well, so my you know friends that are closest to my heart are Jewish. I've been to like seven bum mitzvah this summer. It's so nice how you have Shabbat the whole, you know, I have friends who are Jewish. I'm like, 'Can you come out Friday night?' And they're like, 'Nope, have Shabbat.'"
"They do that. I see. I don't do that, but they Yeah."
"That's It's amazing. It's so good. It's, you know, it it maintains a really strong family unit, which I'm all for."
"I went to a Shabbat dinner in Israel. Um, it was quite an a relatively orthodox family, but not like, you know, the the hats and stuff like that. Uh, with Tommy Robinson. We went and had this this lovely dinner with a Jewish family there and uh yeah it was something that as a child I was so dead against because I was rebelling as a kid and then I could see like okay right all the stress of work all the stress of friends family all those kind of things Friday night you just turn it off and it's all about family yeah you know I love that um and I think that's such a lovely tradition and they do have lovely traditions and I speak to in these bases I end up getting into kind spiritual conversations with um with the rabbis is"
"and I always realize actually the one point of contention between Islam, Judaism and Christianity is Jesus and Mary. That's the main difference, right?"
"Yeah."
"I mean, obviously there are differences similarities. A lot of similarities in the religions themselves, you know, like like Mary is a big deal in in Islam."
"So is Jesus."
"Whereas in Judaism, not at all."
"Yeah. Yeah. I think they thought he I got baptized the other day in the River Jordan just just to see how it felt. Did you swim in the Dead Sea?"
"Uh, I have done that previously. Yeah, because you got to experience these things."
"Amazing. Yeah."
"But but but what I was going to say is I don't really see myself as part of a Jewish community. Just as you said, you're not part of a Muslim community. I'm a British community. That's what I feel like. That's more important. And yet there are those parts of us. And yet and because of who we are, or at least in my case, when I do criticize particularly the heredi or hidic Jewish communities, I get more vitriol than I would otherwise get because I'm Jewish and they see me as a kind of traitor. So, what I'm angling at here, do you get that kind of"
"perhaps a bit online, but actually not so much because Andrew, there's a lot of Muslims like me who don't want to be associated with the Pakistani rapist."
"That's great news."
"Yeah. They don't want to be associated with the people in Tower Hamlets who are only in burkas. You know, covering your face has got nothing to do with religion. A burka's nothing in the Quran says you should"
"Is that right?"
"Yeah. No, it says you should be modest. That's it."
"You know, and so it's tradition. And it's wahhabibism from Saudi, from Afghanistan. And I have I don't relate to that at all. And there's so many Muslims like me. In fact, I got stopped by an Iranian lady who stopped me and said, 'Lady, thank you so much. It takes a Muslim person to explain that I didn't move here from Iran for Islamophobia laws, for burkas.' And she says, 'Sometimes when I see what's going on, I want to move back to Iran, you know.' And she said, 'Thank you so much for calling it out.' So what people don't understand, there are lots of Muslims that are just very British and and you know, we love this country. like it's in my heart. Um, and so of course I'm going to call it out because that's that's and I speak to all Muslim I I sometimes want to give a message to the Muslim community. My parents moved here in the 60s to assimilate and to be British. Yeah."
"They didn't move here for a quasi Muslim country, you know, and I don't think a lot of Muslims do that. I mean, others go back, you know, this is not this is not what people move here for."
"This must be even more frustrating for you than it is for for anyone else. This is 100%."
"It makes you look bad as well."
"100%. Yeah. I've got boys as well, so I don't want people to think that my boys are like these horrible rapists or don't respect women, you know."
"Yeah."
"And when I speak out, I speak out for my children, you know. And yeah, it it No. And and I'm I'm very happy to speak out because someone has to say it. I have nothing to do with those people. I hate them just as much as anyone else. Even more."
"Yeah. That's it's interesting. Just talking to you, your whole being. If you said to me, uh, I'm Jewish, I'm Christian, I'm an atheist, I'm whatever, I would any of those things fit exactly because you just seem British to me."
"Yes."
"And that's the important thing, I think."
"And that's the trouble I had with Shabbat Mammud because she had one video where she said, 'Everything I do stems from my religion.' Don't know if you saw it or something like that."
"Yes. Yes."
"And that would worry me because we're not a Muslim country. And I don't really want a se a home secretary whose decisions stem from her religion first and her nationality second. Um because there is there can be a conflict of interest. So and and that is troubling for me and and that maybe goes back to why we don't have a visa ban on Pakistan."
"You know for me there are Pakistanis that are doing harm in our country. They have to take them back and if they don't, no one's allowed back in. It's as simple as that."
"You've described Egypt when your parents fled as Did they flee? Is that right to say?"
"No. No. They left as as quasi communist. I think"
"Yeah, it was. Most people won't have much of a historic understanding, I don't of of Egypt in that time. So, what what does that mean? What did it look like?"
"Um, so it was before it was under a king and it was actually I think it was a it was a British protectorate and my mom said that was the best time. You know, the Brits came, they built beautiful buildings. it was civilized. Um, and I think that's where the love of Britain started in my mom and my parents. They said, 'Wow.' You know, and you see the buildings they built. They're still stunning. Um, and then, you know, it became kind of a populist communist movement. Uh, Abdaser, uh, and people, he was repossessing people's lands, people's houses. Um, people used to hide jewelry in in creams, facial creams, so it's not possessed. you know, you go to the bank. My dad would tell me, you go to the bank and the bank manager would be like, apparently this family's next to be repossessed. This family's next to be repossessed and you know, they came and they studied law at UCL."
"It's interesting because you don't think of commun you think of communism obviously Russia and East Germany and things"
"are very very he was very close to Russia."
"Ah, that's interesting. And and and was that also was that entwined with a kind of Islamism?"
"It ca No, he was not Islamic at all actually. But the Muslim Brotherhood was there. There's a speech actually where he says, 'The Muslim Brotherhood asked me to impose the veil on everyone.' And he laughed and he said, 'Why should I impose it? Your your wife doesn't even wear it.'"
"Egypt was not as it was now. And I think what you found in a lot of Middle Eastern countries is as poverty became so almost became a shity for some people. There's no social mobility at all in the in in Egypt, for instance. People turned to like a radical side of Islam and that that's what you're seeing. you know, when my mom grew up, people were in bikinis in Egypt. You know, there was but now you go to Egypt, there's a lot of people who are um covered. And I think it there is a there is a correlation between a lack of hope that they seek hope in religion or a very strict form of it."
"Is there what we've seen happen in Egypt in that sense a kind of Islamification uh and even more so I think in Lebanon, Iran, Afghanistan. Uh is there any reason that can't happen here? But you've seen it in some areas, you know. So, for instance, like the Burkers banned in Tunisia. Um, of course you could see it here. We we allow people from the Muslim Brotherhood to seek asylum here, you know. Someone came on a boat. He was a convicted bomb maker from Egypt. He got on a boat and came here and the Home Office knew it and entertained his asylum claim and he was housed in a four-star hotel in Eling and went to rape a woman in High Park. So, of course, it can happen. We're letting we're letting terrorists in on those boats. It for me it's no longer an immigration issue. It's a national security issue. You know, how do you know how many there are? They have no idea. And I think the government has a lot to answer. Do they keep track? Do they know where these people are from? Of course they don't. Um do they care? And so when people say I'm racist for calling that out, how they're coming from Egypt, you know, I just I just recognize I don't care where they're coming from. If they're coming from Egypt or the Middle East, if they pose a threat to this country, I will call it out."
"What?"
"Because my my my loyalties to the country,"
"It looks like Farage will get in."
"What What can you Great"
"Well, I look I I worry I I don't know which I worry from both sides about Nigel, as one should do, right? You should worry about any leader you're potentially voting for. You should never blindly lead. Yeah. So, I do worry. I I do think, oh gosh, what was he doing? Admittedly okay he was a teenager and it's but it does make me think oh gosh and and then on the other side oh has he gone a bit soft on deportation from both sides I'm going h but then I don't know who else because all I know is this country the cultures has been totally replaced and we need to stop it how does one once far is in how does one go about doing that without implementing authoritarianism"
"I mean he's the opposite of authoritarianism what you're seeing now is an authoritarian regime you know they're going to cancel jury trials for quite serious crimes up to 3 to four years sentence Uh and jury trials are the last bastion of the public against the state. Yeah. You know, when you have a judge who's influenced by the state and has vested interests, institutional vested interests making a decision as opposed to 12 lay people from the community, that is authoritarianism. And now very and now they're saying that, you know, if it's a complex fraud case, the public's too stupid to be a jury. It it's such a complete disrespect because the jury those people are doctors, accountants, you know, they live a complex life and they actually notes show that the juries in complex fraud cases actually wrote down very pertinent questions. So there's a complete lack of trust and respect for the public. You know, they want to bring in digital ID, the online safety bill. You can see it's a slow creep and the creep is always you know under the guise of safety or under the guise of of of speed or you know um or children they love they love to hide but the safety of children but you know you know that if you give up your freedoms for safety you'll end up with nothing and that's what's happening so um and don't forget it's the left that canceled elections in Romania you know Russian interference they're going after Mar Le Pen and yet people say it's the right that's authoritarian but actually that's completely changed you know, we're the ones that would believe in freedom of speech. Um, we're the ones that are defending freedom right now."
"Yeah, I agree with all of that. I suppose I can reframe that as okay, let's say they have to go about doing a lot of deportations of people. We saw in wherever it was somewhere near Leeds when they had to take some children away from a Romany family, so separate to the Islam or but it's it's an immigration issue. Uh, and it caused mad riots. Everyone went completely insane. You know, buses lit on fire."
"That's because Well, I don't know the exact story, but isn't it because the parent was a criminal?"
"social services."
"Quite possibly. I'm not doubting that immigration."
"Sure. But but even so, I'm not I'm not doubting that social services probably had a very good reason to do what they did. The point I'm making is look what that did. Everyone went nuts. Imagine now going around the entire country and just getting random people, not random people, people who we think should be out of the country out the country. I don't know how that happens without war breaking out or some sort of civil war. But you're what you're describing is chaos, right? It's it's going to be a measured approach. First of all, you got to stop illegal migrants coming in here. Yes. Right. Because we've got people coming all the time. That's got to stop to a zero. What Labour's suggesting now is controlled illegal migration. Right. We want it stopped to zero. Um and then you go about dealing with everything else. And you know, we will have a plan. You know, we'll have uh we'll give them a chance to leave on their own accord. Um, and we'll give them a chance to apply for for visas or to apply for citizenship. We're not going to just go around knocking on people's door randomly and being like, you know, we're going to take you and your children. And people aren't worried about the children that are here. People are really worried about the hundreds of thousands of unvetted men that are roaming our streets."
"There really are hundreds of thousands. And London has like the most biggest proportion, you know, and they're being housed in some three to fourstar hotels and they're being paid for by people who can't afford to live in London themselves because it's so expensive."
"Do you remember Ryland said that he got in trouble?"
"Did he?"
"Yeah. Have you not seen that? Ryland. Do you know who that is?"
"I think so. I didn't see the clip."
"Yeah. What did he say?"
"He was on one of those kind of This Morning kind of programs, I don't know, on ITV, I think. and he just said, 'Well, you know, people are pretty angry uh because people have been put up in hotels and given game boys or whatever it was.' And I don't think he's been back on TV since"
"really,"
"they've sort of done away with it."
"Well, it's ridiculous. He's only saying the truth, you know, it's frustrating and it's angers people. Why not?"
"How many I So, you say there are many Muslims like you and we so rarely hear from them and I think a lot of people are fearful understandably so. Uh and again, I understand the fear. Yeah. So, how how many of you guys are there that are just like lovely nice Muslim people who are just love being British?"
"Loads. I mean, my family, my friends, you know, um I know loads. I mean, everyone I know. Uh"
"are they also"
"We don't even we don't even talk about the the fact that we're Muslims. Do do you know what I mean?"
"Yeah. But are they also are they gathering around on a the Muslim equivalent of a Friday night dinner going?"
"No. Sadly, we don't have that."
"What do you have? There must be something."
"Nothing really."
"Sunday night dinner."
"No,"
"you must eat."
"Yeah, we we have dinner parties. You know, we go around to people's house. But yeah, I barely see my family. We're all so busy. But um No, I think of course they're they're annoyed because they're Did you Can I say the word pissed off?"
"Yeah."
"Yeah. Of course they're pissed off because it's painting a picture uh of us, you know, you have bad apples. M"
"um it's almost it's almost like the Catholic Church when you had priests that abuse children, right?"
"Um Catholics hate them probably more than anyone else because it betrays them. You know, we hate them because it's disgusting, but it betrays that that Catholic belief that can be a source of good."
"Yeah."
"And that that's how that's how I feel. It betrays me as a person. It betrays who I am. it portrays my my you know it's it's just not at all doesn't represent anything I believe in."
"I think I feel like people and and it's an unfair burden to place on you. It really is actually. I think people want to see Muslims like you rise up as you are doing and and and say hey not in our name if you don't want to be here and adapt assimilate into British values [ __ ] off because you're making it harder for all of us."
"I think people just keep their head down. They're not political. you know that is a political move."
"That's true."
"Right. Um it doesn't it doesn't affect many people like Yeah. I mean I'm surprised you know there are some Tory MPs who are also Muslim who haven't really said much. In fact they all I feel like they scream Islamophobia and you're like for God's sake you know um and there are Labour MPs who don't call it out either. In fact the opposite. They say if you call it out it's racist. You know, for me, there is a sentiment of white anti-white racism here in the country now and the bigotry of low expectations from white people to Muslims. Yeah. But but it's just, you know, those girls were raped because they were white, you know, and somehow nobody nobody says that, you know, I I speak to, you know, if you're white workingass in this country, if you're a white working-class boy, you're too privileged to get certain civil service jobs. You're too privileged to get help. it and actually only 16% of white working-class boys go to university. You know, 50 over 50 to 60% of black and Asian boys do, but somehow if you have a program especially for them, it's divisive and racist. So, it's unacceptable to me."
"You and I both come from immigrant families or at least ethnically would not be considered by many to be English. Uh and yet here we are sitting here going, 'Hang on, the the white English have been left left behind, demonized. They're doing the worst at schools and all of these things. And I think more people from our own kind of backgrounds need to start standing up and and saying things. So I think a lot of them are thinking it in private."
"Of course. Do you know everything to this country? No, I don't know about that. Reform for reform. I mean like I wonder if it's like"
"there's all sorts. I mean it's actually shocking especially in London. You pe people who you think are typical are not typical at all. I mean you Pakistanis, Palestinians, they're all for reform. In fact, I was walking down the high street and there was a Greek grosser and he came up and said, 'I saw you on TV. Reform.'"
"Wow."
"You know, Yeah."
"Exactly. So, because Andrew, it's not about left or right anymore. It's about people are tired of being ignored. You know, nobody wants mass migration no matter where you're from. You know, if if you've lived here for 20, 30 years and you're Greek and you've worked and you've done everything right and then you're paying for foreigners to come and have welfare and you know, I have residents whose children are number 400 on the list for social housing, but someone who's just arrived is number one."
"Yeah."
"So, it doesn't really matter which pendulum your political inclination swings, which side, it's there's a certain unfairness to it."
"Where do you stand on halal and kosher meat? I don't I eat I eat everything."
"Yeah. But do you should it be banned?"
"Uh I have no opinion honestly. Do you think Kosha should be banned?"
"Yes."
"How you I don't even know how it works. I think if it's non-stunned but I read somewhere that I a tweet I came across that most halal kosher is stunned."
"I whenever I've said that other people have said that's actually not true. It's just what has been spread that way. you know, they spend"
"because the RSPCA I saw an answer to the RSP the RSPCA answered it."
"I don't know. I really have no opinion. I mean, my family, we anything, you know, as I said, I don't see religion as a prescriptive thing, you know, a set of rules to follow. I see religion as a more of a spiritual thing. You know, there's a there's a god up there. And when I was young, it would kept me from doing bad things about, oh, he's watching it. It's more like that. But prescriptive stuff, don't do this, don't do that. I don't I don't see religion conducive to that and I don't see a benefit in that."
"I just Yeah. I And I think it's also very not British. I don't think I think we do have a a farming and a hunting legacy and all of those things, but the way that the animals are tortured and I always get [ __ ] from from Jewish people watching and and Muslim people watching and and I they always say these, oh no, it's not the way you think it is. But then I look it up and it is it's it's horrific."
"Is it? I've never actually I don't even know how it's done."
"Yeah. Well, a lot of them say that it's mostly stunned and stuff like that. It's appears that's not the case. Again, I'm happy to hold my hands up. People will say stuff in the comments. I know they'll be very angry at me. It just doesn't seem like something that we need to have in Britain. I remember Ian Dale was saying he was running for MP somewhere or other. I can't remember where it was. And uh that one of the main things he wanted to do was ban kosher and hal meat, but it was in a particularly Jewish area and he knew he couldn't do that, which made me think, well, okay, but this is this is a British country and because of I I don't know if you'd call Jews foreign. There have been Jews here since the Normans, most in the last few hundred years. But even so, something that is not historically British in that sense is affecting your policies. And that's I mean what I'm asking"
"I don't think people do people really care about halal and and and kosher meat. People are starting to care more about halal, okay, than kosher because co I mean how many people are kosher in this country? It's it's most Jews are not. There's only a couple hundred thousand Jews anyway in the country."
"No, I know quite a few actually. I have very good friends. I always have to go and and Jewish butchers kosher butchers are really quite expensive. Oh, right. Yeah. Yeah. And they're not easy to find. Whenever they come for dinner, I have to I have to source a a kosher meat. I do. You go the extra mile for them."
"Yeah. Well, because other kids love meats, right?"
"No, they're not that strict. They just they just, you know, the milk in one and the meat. No. No. You know, but when they come and and I do a roast something, it will have to be kosher."
"People don't realize that like in Israel, you can't you can almost not get a cheeseburger because the cheese the dairy and the meat have to be in separate fridges. It's it's quite a thing. I I of I'm of the impression that if you come here there's and as I've said what we've been told by successive governments and or it hasn't been promoted is if you're British keep your head down we don't want to offend any of the newcomers you know we don't want to offend any particular groups don't be too British don't put the flag out can be divisive can remind them of a past and frankly I'm like no absolutely you know I want the flag everywhere you know my husband's American the flag's everywhere I love it. Yeah. Yeah. And it's beautiful. Yeah. You know, our flag is stunning. Um, when it billows in the wind, it's just it's just a beautiful sight. And that's I think the difference you'll see with a reformed government is that there'll be pride in our country. You know, there'll be pride in our history. There'll be pride in what this country's achieved. I've been on TV shows with Labor MPs who've argued with me that it's only because of the ECR that we have human rights in this country, you know, and I'm like, it's shocking. And these people that are legislating, governing us have no respect for the amazing history that this country has. And once you have that from the top from leadership, I think then you'll see a difference in in the culture. You know, I want family to be valued. You know, we've completely disregarded family values. It's and I want family, your country. I want pride. You know, I want people to walk around my kids to walk around with a hoodie in the flag."
"You know what's wrong with that?"
"The hoodie and the flag. No, just like to show it. You know how like is it Ralph Lauren sweatshirts who always have like the American flag? Yeah, I think so. Yeah. And that's totally fine. You get people walk around here with American flag, but they wouldn't dare walking around with the British flag. It's mad."
"It's insane. Actually, I was just again in Israel, flags everywhere, of course. And it's it's a funny thing because I think some people will mock it on the left. They'll mock it like, 'Oh, your flags.' And then they're walking around with the rainbow flags. Ultimately, the flags do mean things. And you're right, when you're in America, you do look up on it and there's a sense of the history, the sense of unity, sense of there's there's a grandeur to it. There's something magnificent about it when you see the flag, I think. And it means that even if there's a lot of immigrants coming in or what, everybody is under one flag, one kind of"
"That's why I think people think multiculturism failed because we failed to embrace and impose a British culture, you know, and and you can practice what you want and do what you want, but you are British and if you come here, you have to know what our British values are. Yeah. And you have to live by what it is. And for me, Britain's in my heart being British. Um, I don't know. When I travel and I land in Heathro, I'm so happy. Yeah. There's something about it, even if it's miserable and gray."
"He Heathro is looking less and less British now."
"Completely. It's actually I don't know why that is. Obviously, because it's an international destination, but I was just I mean it it is it is nuts now. I was there recently and the the queue for the passports um I was going to take a photo because it was that staggering but everybody was in some kind of extreme religious garb which is just not Britain. If I were in the UAE or something and this was in the British passport section these people with passports but it just made me think bloody hell like the demographics in terms of beliefs I'm not talking about skin color for sure they've really changed it."
"I mean if you go to town hamlets it's no longer London. No, you know, um my I have a friend actually, she's American, and she's like, 'Oh, Lady, you know, she's a Democrat.' And she said, 'La, you know, you always go on about this and this and this and you're an immigrant. You you know, you're the daughter of immigrants yourself.' And then she went to source some kind of tiles from town hamlet. She called me. She goes, 'Bloody hell.' You're so right. You know, she doesn't leave her little enclave. And then she went and she goes, 'Oh my god.' She's like, 'Everyone was in a burka. They were burka markets at the burka markets.' And I speak to people, British people who are from Tower Hamlets, who have moved out a bit to Essex and stuff and they're like, I don't recognize it anymore."
"If that was the one place, because that's the thing with the Hidic Jews, that's Stamford Hill in North London. I actually know the three counselors there, the conservative counselors. They're quite they're quite good characters. Bloody hell. I mean, it's an interesting place if any if nothing else. But that's literally it for the whole country. They're in one little kind of village. Um, mostly,"
"how can I say? I do think that the Jewish community is different to the Muslim community in that I don't feel the Jewish community tries to impose anything on Britain."
"They're quite exclusive, aren't they? Which which some people don't like."
"They take care of them. Yeah. But fine, you know, I'm kind of a live and let live person, but don't impose on me. And I think I don't see a Jewish contingency of MPs trying to bring in anti-semitic laws or making it illegal to criticize Islam."
"Those people do exist there. There are, you know, the Jewish board of deputies kind of thing. They do exist. Personally, I think they make things much more complicated, much more difficult. I think there's, you know, anti-semitism has gone through through the roof. I know people find it boring because it's"
kind of victim narrative. I'm not going to go on about it.
>> No, it's through the roof.
>> It's it's m >> I have Jewish friends who've lived here all their life who no longer feel safe to live here and they're moving. A family member of mine got spat on the other day with it. Got a tattoo, sort of, was it was a sort of god thing in Hebrew, just got spat on. It was another, there's a woman I know of, another student, these like student universities and stuff, just got got like red paint thrown all over them, like as in blood kind of thing.
>> Like it's getting really bad.
>> It's getting really bad. And for me, if the Jewish community is not safe in London, then none of us are.
>> You know, none of us are. And you can't and you know, and I know I've spoken to certain Jewish communities and they've been begging for more security.
>> And kind of been ignored.
>> See, I think though, sometimes with the Jewish Board of Deputies, it's all well-meaning. Um, but I think they actually don't help because I think now, if just politically, let's say, not what what's right or wrong, but politically. I think Jews need to realize they're a tiny minority and they need to >> they're an important minority. They were the first immigrants here, weren't they?
>> Yeah. Well, since the Norman, the Norman conquest.
>> They're, you know, I don't really see them, you know, they're an important minority. Tiny.
>> Yeah. They shouldn't have to feel any kind of hatred.
>> No, no. I I agree with you about that, of course. But I think there's now there's a there's a strategic decision for Jews to make. And they either sit there and continue to ask the left to love them, which they'll never do, never consider them one of them. Or >> it's a shame.
>> Yeah. Or they go, you know what? Maybe Tommy Robinson's all right.
>> Yeah.
>> Maybe the white English person, who I've almost never had a problem with as a Jew, they never say anything to me. All the problems I've had come from the left. That's not to say there's not a far right, but that's not what Tommy's about.
>> But they distance themselves from Tommy out of fear at the likes of the Board of Deputies. I think that's a strategically huge error.
>> I can't comment on it. I Yeah, I >> can you comment about Tommy? Because I know Nigel doesn't want to. He wants to disassociate, which is probably politically astute. Not >> I mean, I honestly, I I've only seen clips of him. I've never met him. Uh, I know that he got it right on the, you know, on the grooming gangs. He was one of the first to call it out. Um, I also know he's got a few criminal records, you know. [clears throat] I get all that. I I had this um I've I've spoken about this before, but I wrote this I was when I was traveling with him, I wrote this article sort of aligning myself with him and calling on Jews to be a bit braver and to say, these are the British people. They're not racist. They're he's just not. And they, you know, anyway, next morning I wake up and he's tweeting at someone calling someone a little homosexual. And I was like, "Fuck, fuck." And I went and spoke to him at breakfast. I was like, "Tommy, mate, I've just aligned myself with you. Can you please not?" And he was like, "I know. I know." But he was what? He was giving me [ __ ] That guy, I had to get him.
>> Well, that's he's not a politician, right? So, he can he can he's he's a personality, so he can Yeah. And he can Yeah, he's he's he's allowed to have his own opinions. You know, Andrew, I don't hate anyone >> that resents Muslims or has a fear of Muslims or says there's Islamification of the country. I completely get it. I completely understand. If you are in this country and all you see are Muslim terrorists, women in burkas, Sharia courts flourishing, uh, Muslim rape gangs who only rape girls 'cause they're white, you'd be like,
>> "What the hell? I I hate these people. Get them out of the country. We never want them in here."
>> I I feel the same way about these people.
>> You know,
>> I completely understand it. In fact, once I was in Florida and we were speaking to a man in like some random part in the middle of Florida and um, he was driving around in his truck in his golf cart and he had Trump stickers everywhere. And we were like, "Are there a lot of bugs here?" And he said, "You don't have to worry about the bugs. You got to worry about the Muslims. They're the ones that are going to kill you." And I was with a friend and she looked at me and I said, "No offense. I completely understand. All he sees is Muslim terrorism."
>> Yeah.
>> What else does he know? Of course, I I I would I would be fearful. Um, I'm fearful that we're allowing Muslims who could be very radicalized into the country who want to do us harm.
>> Is there a part of you very deep down that still, even if it's just for a second, felt a bit of pain with him saying that though? So almost equating bugs to to Muslims.
>> No, because he was pointing out something that's true that there is a fear of Muslims because like it or not, myself, Muslim terrorism is the most devastating form and there is uh an aim of mass destruction of the West.
>> No, of course, you know, I I I understand.
>> Wonder if I mean, in Egypt, the Muslim Brotherhood is banned because that kind of radical Islam is unacceptable.
>> But here it's allowed to flourish. I wonder if other people were thinking how good your American accent was.
>> How did you do that? That was really >> Oh, I can do most accents.
>> Can you?
>> Yeah. I don't know if you're allowed to do that anymore, though. But yeah. [laughter]
>> Then I insist you do.
>> I wasn't. Yeah. No. No. Well, my husband's American.
>> Okay. Muslims. I wouldn't I would I would have said like Muslims or I would have wrong >> because they spell it mo.
>> Oh, and then yet they've gone Muslim.
>> I think so. I think I've seen it written M O Sl. And they say Mam, not mom.
>> Mam. MOM for mom.
>> Mom. Yeah, that's good. No, that was a good American accent. I can't I can't do it like you.
>> No, you're not bad.
>> Well, it was something, I suppose.
>> And we all grew up watching TV, right?
>> Yeah, that's the thing. Second nature. It is. It is. There's a bizarre moment on News with you and Zach Palansky. Uh, where he somehow invokes the Nazis and uh, you say, yes. He always does. Yeah, I know. I know. It's so basic his, but fine.
>> It's like, come on, give me something else. Uh, but but yeah, but um, that's you said you can't say you've got uh compassion for asylum seekers and not young girls or you know, which is which seems to be the case. And then Victoria Darbisha interrupted you and just said, not sure that's true. You're suggesting that those people were not having enough empathy for the young girls, but that is clearly true. And this is supposed, she's the BBC, supposed to be this neutral presenter. I was a bit taken back by that.
>> Zero. No, because but the reason why I said that is before that, there was a minister on to describe Shabban Mammud's new policy. And I kid you not, for seven to eight minutes, she spoke about how this policy is going to stop the men on those boats dying and being injured. Right? She says that's why we're bringing it in. We're going to stop the death that's happening with these men crossing the boats. Not once, and it makes me so angry, did she mention, you know, we also recognize the danger they present to women and girls and we want to see a stop to it. Not once. Because actually, they're not putting a stop to it because they're still allowing them in on a two-year stay in the middle of towns and villages. So, they're not actually putting a stop to it. And again, Zach Palinsky, I can't remember what he said, uh, after he called me a fascist and a racist, usual. [laughter] Uh, he he also was talking about, you know, they're coming from war-torn countries. I don't know what. And I said, you know, how about showing some compassion for number one, those that have been sexually assaulted, someone was murdered in Oxbridge, but also all the other women that feel in danger. Um, yeah, that you feel that we're not their priority at all. Zero.
>> It's a lack of empathy. I mean, I know Gad Sad, he's called it suicidal empathy. He talks about it and I I think he knows this as well. It's just a catchy title, but really >> my husband likes that term. He's mentioned it to me a few times. I think it's I don't think it's right because I think it's not even empathy. I think it's narcissism. It's suicidal. Feeling good about yourself.
>> Exactly. That >> you're not empathizing with anyone.
>> No. No. It's this self-righteousness. It's they live in a self-righteousness bubble.
>> That prevents them from seeing. And the thing is, Andrew, they're endangering people. You know, it's it's a direct result to government policy. Every child, every person that's sexually assaulted, every person that's murdered by someone who arrived on a boat, that blood, that crime lies directly in the hands of government. That's it. They know what they could do to stop it. And they are not. And that's a simple fact. And for me, if you are endangering your people, you're failing on your first duty to keep us safe. And you no longer have a mandate to govern. That's it. Because governments have the monopoly of violence, right? They're the only ones that can use violence to stop. We we'd get arrested. So So they have to use it to protect us, but they don't.
>> And and in fact, they they're turning on us. You know, they're trying to control us in every possible way. You know, they're trying to impose. Initially, the digital ID was to stop people on boats from working, then it was. It would be easier to get a mortgage. And then, you know, they brought out a bunch of stuff. Um, but you know how digital ID works. Every right you have now will become a privilege, you know, because all everything will be tabulated. Oh, you didn't pay your thing there. We're going to remove that right. We're going to remove the, you know, exactly. And it's the same with the online safety bill. They they're so scared of the public because they know they've lost the trust of the public that they're trying to control it.
>> You've got not one, two, three, four, five, or six, but seven children.
>> I do. Yeah. I'm blessed.
>> That's remarkable. I I'm amazed by you, firstly, just because nowadays that's not an easy thing to do.
>> No. [clears throat] H that is something I believe we need to encourage, maybe not necessarily seven, but but more people to do. How do we get about doing that?
>> So I tell you, so home ownership is directly correlated to child birth. People don't have homes. People don't have children in this country if they don't have security of homes. Um, and we have 30 and 40-year-olds that don't own a home, and a state that will never provide for them. And I've spoken to so many people in that age bracket who are like, I I can't, you know, I don't know where I'm going to live. I cannot have children right now. Um, and successive governments stand there and go, you know, we're the party of home ownership. Yet, every MP is a NIMBY in their own area and they won't allow anyone to build. Um, number one, I think we need to there needs to be a laser focus on home ownership, I believe. Uh, also, that's how you get people to believe in capitalism, right? Because they own a bit of it. M um, and then one of Nigel's policies is to lift the two-child cap benefit for couples in full-time work because what's happened is wages have been stagnant since 2008 because we've imported foreign cheap labor, right? So we've invariably imported cheap wages. And you and I know people are working so hard, taxes are so much higher. Prices are every time I go to the supermarket, the price, the cost is just that little bit more. Prices are higher. Um, and childcare is a fortune. So, what happens is either the woman leaves and and doesn't work. So, if you're in full-time work, the message from us is that Britain backs you. Um, and I think families have not felt right now that the country backs them.
>> You know,
>> This is, you don't have to answer this question because it's a little bit intrusive, but I I asked this without judgment. I'm just genuinely curious because I don't know anyone who's got seven kids. Do you have seven bedrooms? Do you have an eight-bedroom house?
>> No. So I had five of my own,
>> Right?
>> Uh, four with a a a French guy,
>> Hence
>> La
>> Hence my strong support for Brexit. [laughter]
>> Um, uh, and then, uh, he left me >> for some, he met he met he met he met someone in somewhere else.
>> And then I met my husband now, who's amazing, who's American, and I had another one with him.
>> And in fact,
>> when I found out my sister passed away, when I so we'd been trying for a bit, and then when I found out that my sister had terminal cancer, that's when I found out I was pregnant. And it was quite late in my 40s. And it was an incredible. And I went to the doctor. I said, you know, I >> do you think I'm going through the menopause 'cause of my sister? And he goes, "No, no, you're 3 months pregnant."
>> So, it was an Yeah. And my mom, who's quite old and she's had so many grandkids, she's not really that maternal grandmother, but she adores my son.
>> And it was like a Yeah. It was like a circle of life.
>> Wow. Good on you.
>> Yeah. And then two stepkids that I my husband moved uh with them, and I've raised them since they were very little. So, they are my children.
>> Okay. So, five came out of you.
>> Yeah. And there but it's still seven that you've raised. I mean, it's a remarkable thing. So,
>> No, they share bedrooms.
>> Oh, do they?
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Until what age?
>> Well, it's interesting because one goes to university and then one moves into that bedroom. As they get older, I like to put them in in the little ones share as much as possible. The girls share. You can't have boys.
>> Do they complain?
>> The boys share past a certain age.
>> Um,
>> Do they complain? Is there rivalry about that?
>> Yeah, they complain. But the problem is is that some are messy and some are not.
>> Okay.
>> So that that's a problem.
>> My brother and I for some time, I remember shared uh at one point in our childhood, we had a bunk bed and I used to like guys below it and I used to kick it all the time to annoy him and pretend I hadn't kicked it.
>> Yeah. So boys and girls fight differently. You know. [laughter]
>> My girls are so vicious in their words whereas my boys just like fist fight.
>> I see. I see. As one should do. Um, I've got one more question for you, but first, um, you know, where can people follow you and all of those things?
>> Oh, that's great. So you can follow me on Policy on X.
>> Or Counselor Cunningham on Instagram. And, uh, what's the other one? Facebook.
>> Facebook.
>> And then TikTok is Laya Cunningham or Counselor and Counselor CLR.
>> Okay, we will put all those links there. People I hope people do because you're a remarkable person. I hope. Yeah, I hope they. In fact, you're a remarkable woman. I'll say it. I'll be I'll be non-PC because that's what um who's a heretic you admire? I'm just looking at your >> wall. We need to update it. There's not been in a while. Who have we got on the wall? We've got uh >> you. I I I admire you. We'll stick it to that.
>> Thank you. Good. I I Yeah, I'll pay you later.
>> You know. No, no, but I mean, listen, your studio is pretty far out,
>> but you get amazing people to travel here. M
>> um, and it's a it's a nice revealing but non-confrontational conversation.
>> Yeah.
>> Which is not that easy to get.
>> You should have seen my chat with Chris Packham this afternoon. Confrontational. [laughter]
>> Things got a bit Yeah. But if I have someone on who who's politically aligned with me, I still try and ask some of the questions, you know, but >> and you get people who are not politically aligned.
>> Yeah. Well, Chris was was certainly not. Chris Packham is an environmentalist BBC kind of thing. We had the BBC chat.
>> Oh, right.
>> But that's great, you know, and then after we get on well, I don't want it to be angry. It doesn't need to be.
>> No.
>> But yeah. Well, thank you very much. You can be a heretic of mine. Um, and and people, if you if you've watched this far,
>> you've got to watch this. You've got to just keep watching. You're already this deep in. This is really good.