Analista Ben Norton destapa la verdad sobre Venezuela

María Corina Machado, recent winner of the Nobel Peace Prize, is lobbying for the United States military to invade her country. It sounds like a joke, but the British Broadcasting Corporation interviewed her right after she won the Nobel Peace Prize. In the interview, she asked for the United States military to invade Venezuela, which could cause a civil war. If the United States military intervenes militarily, if there are bombings in Caracas, if they plan to kill Maduro, as they say, Trump confirmed that he has authorized the CIA to carry out covert operations. If they kill Maduro, it could lead to civil war. What is happening in Venezuela is very dangerous, and we should follow what is happening very closely. He is Ben Norton, he is a journalist, geopolitical analyst, and a popular YouTuber who has extensive experience living and working in both Latin America and China. In today's interview, I sit down with Ben to talk about the potential escalation and war between the United States and Venezuela. He has an incredible perspective on Latin America. And in today's episode, we are going to thoroughly analyze all the possible scenarios of a total war between these two nations. We will also discuss the possibility of a united Latin America confronting the United States and the continent's role in the new cold war against the United States. If you want to understand the United States' military pivot towards Latin America, this video is for you. Let's begin. I am honored to welcome to the studio Ben Norton, journalist, analyst, and political economist. Perhaps you have seen him on his YouTube channel, Geopolitical Economy Report. Ben, thank you for being on our show. Thank you for having me. I have always been a viewer. This is my first invitation. Of course, Ben. I have greatly admired your YouTube channel, and I know that we share many followers between our fans and channels. It is exciting to finally talk with you. We will surely have many topics of conversation. I know you are in Beijing, you make incredible videos about China, and also about other things, talking about Israel, talking about Latin America, in which you have enormous experience. Ben, I want to start there because we have seen interesting developments between the United States. Uh, now we see a situation with Venezuela. Oh, give me your general perspective on what is happening between the United States and Latin America. Perhaps even talk a little about this Nobel Peace Prize and what you think will happen in the future, specifically between the United States and Venezuela. Yes, well, thank you for having me, Cyrus Jansen. I love your videos, and this is a great starting point because it is actually related to China, you know. The United States is waging a new cold war, you can call it Cold War II or the second cold war. China is the main target. Russia is also one. This is seen in the proxy war in Ukraine, which is not just between Russia and Ukraine, but between NATO and Russia. The United States leads NATO. In this new cold war, Russia is a target, but the main one is China. This is because, as Marco Rubio said during his confirmation hearing, Trump nominated him, and the Senate appointed him Secretary of State. During the nomination and confirmation hearing, Marco Rubio stated that China is the biggest threat that the United States has ever faced, even more than the Soviet Union. He said that China is a supposed threat, not only militarily and in terms of security, but also economically and technologically, in everything. Of course, you and I would debate whether China is really a threat. China has not waged a war since 1979, while the United States has been at war for our entire lives, constantly in multiple wars every year. So China has no interest in war or conflict, but the United States sees China as a threat to its global dominance. The United States seeks hegemony, and China is the only country powerful enough to challenge American hegemony. Not only politically, not only economically, but especially in the technological sphere. You know? If you look around the world, if you travel, practically every country on the planet uses American technology. From Silicon Valley, the big tech companies, the Magnificent Seven, they drive the stock market, the S&P 500, and the NASDAQ. China is really the only country that has major technological alternatives to these American monopolies. So we are in this new cold war. I have already established that Latin America plays an important role in that, because basically the United States' strategy is that it now recognizes it. The United States withdrew from Afghanistan after 20 years of war, knowing it could not win. The United States also recognizes that the Western Pacific, what the United States calls the Indo-Pacific region, the United States continues to seek to maintain a strong military presence in Japan, South Korea, and the Philippines, which has made the area a major focus of conflict. You know? Africa is not as high a priority in this new cold war, Europe. The United States seeks to move away from Europe. That is why the Trump administration says that security is a European responsibility. The war in Ukraine is their responsibility. That is why the United States is concentrating on two key regions, the Western Pacific and Latin America. You know? Now Trump is not joking so much when he talks about annexing Canada. Making Canada the 51st state, he is talking about colonizing Greenland, and Latin America is another objective in this new cold war. The strategy of the American empire, as Zbigniew Brzezinski pointed out in the 90s, is still valid. The strategy is to consolidate United States hegemony over all of America, the Western Hemisphere, and then project American power into the Western Pacific to contain China. The United States has limited resources, so regions like Europe and Africa are being de-prioritized. Now, regarding Latin America, many countries in the region have quite good relations with China. China is South America's largest trading partner, and if you take all of Latin America together, excluding Mexico, China is the largest trading partner. Mexico is a neighbor of the United States, and they have a free trade agreement, formerly called the North American Free Trade Agreement, now with another name. More than 80% of Mexican exports go to the United States. The same is true for Canada. These countries are very economically integrated, but if you go south of Mexico, China is the most important trading partner, and if you look at a trade graph, over time China is becoming increasingly important economically for Latin America, and the United States is losing importance. We see this now in countries like Argentina, which currently has a very right-wing, pro-United States leader, Javier Milei, who promised to cut all ties with China during his campaign and then, of course, took office and realized that, you know, China is Argentina's largest trading partner. You cannot simply cut ties with your largest trading partner. Now we see the Trump administration carrying out two bailouts of $20 billion each, a $40 billion liquidity injection for Argentina. One option is a currency swap between the Federal Reserve and the Central Bank of Argentina. And now Scott Besson, you know, who comes from a hedge fund, is seeking private funds to provide liquidity and deliver the necessary dollars in Argentina to bondholders. So, as part of this, one of the conditions is, Scott Besson admitted in an interview that he is pressuring Argentina to cut its ties with China. And we have seen this again and again and again throughout the region. And this also explains. This is one of the reasons why Venezuela is being attacked. Venezuela is one of China's closest allies in the region. In fact, President Xi recently had a meeting with President Maduro, and they elevated their relations to a comprehensive strategic partnership for all weather to the level of Pakistan, which we know is very close to China. Pakistan plays a key role in the Belt and Road Initiative and in the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor. The China-Pakistan Economic Corridor. Venezuela has become another very important partner for China, and especially due to the aggressive sanctions by the United States against Venezuela. Venezuela has not been able to export much of its oil to many countries, so China imports most of Venezuela's oil. It is not just Venezuela or its oil. It is about this larger geopolitical strategy of isolating Latin America from China and also from Russia. Russia does not have many economic ties with Latin America, but it maintains political ties, especially with Venezuela, a country close to China, Russia, and Iran. So, you know, all the great enemies that the United States is trying to isolate, Venezuela is like the perfect storm. And you mention oil, right? Venezuela possesses the largest reserves in the world. Much of that oil is very heavy crude and requires a lot of processing, unlike light, sweet crude. That is the type of oil people look for, especially in Saudi Arabia and the Gulf. Venezuela has a lot of potential. The supposed winner of the Nobel Peace Prize, María Corina Machado, has been funded by the United States government for decades. Since 2003, her organizations have received funds from the National Endowment for Democracy, a CIA front. The co-founder of the National Endowment for Democracy, Alan Weinstein, admitted in the Washington Post that it was funded, it was created in the Reagan administration to openly do what the CIA had previously done covertly. We know that the National Endowment for Democracy has funded, you know, opposition groups that try to carry out coups and regime change operations in China, Russia, Iran, Venezuela, Cuba, and all the countries that are targets of the United States for regime change, right? The famous color revolutions occurred in Ukraine in 2004 and 2014, and in Venezuela in 2002, 2014, 2017, and 2019. It is happening again now. María Corina Machado. She admitted in an interview in February with Donald Trump Jr. that she wants to take power, overthrow Maduro, and privatize all of Venezuela's oil to sell it to American companies. American companies like Exxon Mobil controlled a large part of the oil in Venezuela. Shell, although not American, was also one of these Western companies. In 1998, the people of Venezuela elected the left-wing nationalist leader, Hugo Chávez, who initiated the Bolivarian revolution. Sometimes people get confused and ask, what does this have to do with Bolivia? Well, it is a reference to Simón Bolívar, who was the revolutionary general in the 19th century who created an army and defeated the Spanish empire and liberated several current countries, including Venezuela, Colombia, and Bolivia. Bolivia is named after Simón Bolívar. These were part of the Spanish empire, right? And these modern countries exist thanks to Bolívar's revolutionary war against the Spanish Empire. So, essentially, Chávez was influenced by this legacy of Bolívar and declared the Bolivarian revolution and declared that there was a constitutional referendum that was voted on by the Venezuelan people. 60% voted for a new, very progressive Constitution. He also changed the country's name to the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela. Wherever you go, I have been to Venezuela several times, wherever you go there are signs and murals of Simón Bolívar. I mean, he is like, he is like the hero of South America. Hugo Chávez nationalized the oil and expelled American oil companies. Since then, the United States has desperately sought to return to Venezuela. In April 2002, the George W. Bush administration supported a violent coup attempt. Chávez was briefly overthrown, but he was so popular that the people of Venezuela took to the streets en masse and demanded his return. Furthermore, very advantageous things happened for Venezuela. Venezuela was one of the first countries in Latin America to approach China. During the First Cold War, China had almost no formal relations with Latin American countries, Cuba, Nicaragua, Grenada. Most governments in Latin America during the First Cold War were right-wing dictatorships supported by the United States. Only a few were left-wing. Chile had the Pinochet dictatorship, and Argentina had Videla, both right-wing dictators. You know? This was known as Plan Condor or Operation Condor. Here, the United States seeks to impose its hegemony in the new cold war, as before. After the First Cold War, China established relations with some countries, and trade grew. China, of course, was not yet a significant economic exporter; it was a small economy. China, of course, has developed very rapidly, and now Latin America's relations with China have become more important. So still, for example, if you look at all the countries in the world, there are only 12 countries that refuse to establish formal relations with the People's Republic. Only 12 countries recognize Taiwan as a country, but according to International Law, it is not. The United Nations and International Law have declared that Taiwan belongs to China. There is only one China; Hong Kong, Taiwan, and Macau belong to it. Well, there are 12 countries that refuse to recognize that, and half of them are in Latin America. Guatemala is the most populous country among these, although it is very small, but most of these countries that have relations with Taiwan are very small. Haiti, Guatemala, also Belize and Paraguay. So these are small countries, and until recently, for example, Honduras just established formal relations with China 2 years ago. So, you know, for some countries, especially in Central America, these are small countries. The United States exerts a lot of pressure on them. They also bribe politicians. There are many reports, a president receives millions, a lot of money in Central America. I will not recognize China. I am getting rich from this. You know? Taiwan has had many reports that Taiwanese authorities have been bribing these politicians and business leaders to maintain relations. Relations between Latin America and China are recent, but they are strengthening. Hugo Chávez in Venezuela was one of the first leaders to approach China, especially during the commodity boom. In the 2000s, China was growing rapidly, exceeding 10% annual GDP and industrializing massively, building a lot of infrastructure, roads, and buildings. It needed tons of raw materials, and Latin America became a key trading partner. Ah, Brazil is one of the world's leading producers of iron ore. Venezuela is a major oil producer. There are several major oil producers in Latin America and the Caribbean, including Venezuela, Colombia, Ecuador, Brazil, Trinidad and Tobago. Lately, last night, the Caribbean has gained greater importance, and what we have seen is that basically during the commodity boom, Latin America was growing a lot along with China. Then things like the commodity crash happened in 2014 and 2016, especially oil, whose prices never recovered. Then, in 2015, the United States really started to pressure Venezuela and began to impose strong sanctions on Venezuela. It actually started with Obama, not Trump, and it was bipartisan. In 2015, Obama issued an executive order calling Venezuela an extraordinary threat to the national security of the United States, which is nonsense. But the reason Obama did that was with the executive order, like what we see Trump doing now, meaning this is bipartisan. So he could ignore Congress and impose sanctions on Venezuela that started in 2015, and then in 2017 when Trump came to win many of the votes in Miami, right in Florida. And Marco Rubio, who is his Secretary of State, really tightened the screws. He tightened the screws on Venezuela, you know, the noose. In fact, a Trump administration official famously said, "He boasted that the sanctions on Venezuela were like Darth Vader's death grip. They tried to economically asphyxiate Venezuela, which led to a severe economic crisis. I was in Venezuela and saw the hyperinflation. That is why inflation in Turkey seems insignificant. And that is due to the United States sanctions on Venezuela. This is a country that for 100 years has been an oil state like Saudi Arabia, like Qatar, like the United Arab Emirates. These are countries that really have no industry and basically just export raw materials, and so the entire economy depends on that. They suffer from Dutch disease or resource curse. Their currencies usually appreciate a lot due to the inflow of strong foreign currency due to their current account surplus, and that makes it very difficult to have a competitive industry because all your other exports become so uncompetitive, and then you just import food because everything is so cheap, because your currency is so overvalued. Venezuela is a petrostate. It has been that way. Before, in Venezuela, only the elites benefited from oil, while the majority did not. Chávez nationalized the oil and used those funds to build housing, finance education, healthcare, and social programs for the poor, but it always depended on this constant flow of oil revenue. So Venezuela was hit by these two enormous, you know, enormous rocks, these like hammer blows of collapsing oil prices and then the United States sanctions, and then the sanctions escalated and escalated. Until 2019, Trump imposed a total economic embargo on Venezuela, like the embargo on Cuba. And then, a big problem in Venezuela that I have seen firsthand is that because Venezuela is not only an oil state, but also all its infrastructure. American companies built all its technology using largely American technology. For example, Chávez did nationalize the oil industry, but all the real technology used to extract the oil and then refine it was built by American companies and a few European companies, but Venezuela did not actually have companies that manufactured the drilling equipment or all the massive capital expenditure required. They nationalized the company that was doing the drilling and refining. They had a refinery based in the United States, in Texas, called SITCO. Even in the southern United States, they used to have some SITCO gas stations. That was a Venezuelan state-owned company, but when the United States started imposing sanctions on Venezuela, Venezuela could no longer repair and upgrade its equipment. So all that capital expenditure, all the capital equipment, suddenly over time you have to keep investing and investing. It starts to fail, and they don't have the necessary parts or equipment because everything was imported from the United States. Furthermore, as I said, Venezuela has very heavy crude. They had to import light crude and chemicals to mix, refine the oil, and use it. So the sanctions, basically what I usually point out to people is that people like to say, "You know, Venezuela, socialism, everything has failed." Well, I say no. I mean, look at what happened. Look at Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia has tried for decades to modernize its economy, diversify, and move away from oil with very little success. The United Arab Emirates, the same. Imagine if the United States imposed strong sanctions on them, blocked their financial access, and stole their foreign exchange reserves. In 2022, the United States and Europe confiscated $300 billion in euros of Russian Central Bank assets. This is an incredible act of international piracy and has driven de-dollarization in this major bull market. In gold, I mean, gold is now at $4,200 and increasing every day. A big reason for that is that they confiscate treasury bonds and euros, euro-denominated assets, mostly sovereign bonds that belong to Russia. These central banks are already diversifying. They did the same thing with Venezuela in 2019. There are still over $3 billion in Venezuelan gold held by the Bank of England. They refuse to return it. Imagine if Saudi Arabia had all its reserves outside. They were blocked from access to the international financial system. They could not access dollars. They would collapse almost immediately. It is easy to explain. It is a petrostate under pressure from sanctions. What is interesting in recent years is that its oil production has actually recovered quite a bit. It is still quite low. It is half of what it was at its peak, but it is now over a million dollars per day, sorry, a million barrels per day and rising. That is a big reason. Interestingly, much of the new technology in Venezuela's oil industry comes from Iran, not just China and Russia. Iran has been under United States sanctions since the Iranian Revolution of 1979. So Iran, as a major oil exporter and producer, was forced to create its own technology. It has been doing this for decades. That is why Iran sent technicians and technology to Venezuela to modernize and repair its oil infrastructure. So what we see is that Venezuela is really at the center of this new cold war, not just with China. It is a country that does have a left-wing government that is very anti-American imperialist. The United States has invaded almost every country in Latin America. I spent a lot of time in Nicaragua. The United States occupied Nicaragua militarily from 1912 to the 1930s. For 20 years it was almost a colony of the United States. Puerto Rico is still colonized by them. You know? We see. You know, the United States invaded Panama in 1989 and Grenada in 1983. I mean, now they are threatening Venezuela. It makes sense that many countries in the region see American imperialism as the main threat to their security and stability. Cuba has been sanctioned for over 60 years. So, Venezuela is like the Grand Prix from the perspective of these imperialist strategists in Washington. They really want it very much. Do they want to overthrow it? Because of its very independent foreign policy, its support for China, Russia, Palestine, and also because of its oil reserves. And I mentioned that. María Corina Machado admitted in this interview with Donald Trump Jr. that she wants to privatize all of it and sell it to American companies, which, you know, that is one of the reasons she won the Nobel Peace Prize, because, you know, Obama won the Nobel Peace Prize and then bombed seven countries: Yemen, Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, Pakistan. Henry Kissinger won the Nobel Peace Prize after millions of deaths in Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, and Bangladesh. He was one of the architects of the CIA coup in Chile in 1973. The Nobel Peace Prize is very hypocritical. If you look at United States foreign policy in Latin America, it is a long history of interventionism and disrespect for sovereignty. Yes, I mean, Ben, that is a phenomenal answer, and I truly enjoyed that history lesson very much, and I want to thank you for bringing, you know, to the audience here these incredible insights into how this great geopolitical history is at play. I agree. This Nobel Peace Prize seems to have a more political angle. What is interesting here, Ben? Is that we are seeing a lot from the United States. United States Navy ships are now getting closer, you know, more and more to Venezuela. I want to talk specifically about that. I mean, we are potentially seeing a flashpoint here where there could really be a conflict between the United States and Venezuela. How do you see it? Do you think another United States war is coming? Perhaps there is already a conflict. The question is whether it will escalate further or not, well, there is a low-intensity war. Trump declared he was at war, but he did not specify it was against Venezuela, but against drug traffickers, which is very funny because if you know anything about Latin America, you know that Venezuela hardly produces drugs. Its neighbor Colombia is by far the largest cocaine producer in the world. I mean, it is a joke, really, it is very funny. Anyway, we know that the CIA and the Drug Enforcement Administration have a long history of involvement in drug trafficking in Latin America. It is not a conspiracy theory. Reputable journalists and major media outlets have already reported it. Gary Webb, an American journalist, exposed this in the 80s during the Contra war. Where you? The dirty wars in Central America, where the CIA was supporting these death squads known as the Contras in Nicaragua, but also similar groups in Honduras, El Salvador, and Guatemala. Then there was a genocide against the indigenous community in Guatemala carried out by a US-backed dictatorship. But anyway, during those wars, the CIA was using the profits from cocaine trafficking and then used that money to fund the war in Central America. And then, what happened to the cocaine? They flooded that cocaine into poor neighborhoods in the United States, mainly in Los Angeles, which fueled the crack epidemic in the country, which led to large hearings, congressional hearings, and a big scandal in the 80s. This was exposed by American journalist Gary Webb in his famous book Dark Alliance. So, I mean, for anyone in Latin America, hearing the United States talk about it is a joke. In the case of Colombia, according to the United Nations, Colombia is responsible for most cocaine production, and we know that there are several politicians in Colombia who have been deeply involved in cocaine trafficking, in cocaine trafficking. Do you know their relationship with the United States? They are all their allies. So the former president of Colombia, Álvaro Uribe, a very powerful oligarch, the most powerful politician in the country, was a close ally of the United States and George W. Bush, leading the so-called war on drugs. These jokes, right? The same in Mexico, Felipe Calderón, Mexican president, was also a close ally of Bush. The head of security in Mexico was a drug trafficker, causing a big scandal. His name is García Luna. It became a big scandal in Mexico. He was leading the so-called war on drugs. So, in the case of Colombia, returning to Venezuela's neighbor, in the case of Colombia, according to the United Nations, the vast majority of cocaine is produced there, and still some of it passes through Venezuela. But if you really want to stop drug trafficking, you need to go to the source of the drugs, not just to the countries through which they transit. Where do these drugs go? To the United States and Europe. You must focus on the real problem of demand, not just supply. As long as this constant demand for drugs exists, there will always be people who produce them, who provide the supply. By the way, regarding the United States, the United States obviously has big problems with drugs, but it is really not cocaine; it is fentanyl, it is synthetic opioids. And the reason this problem exists is because of pharmaceutical companies, especially Purdue Pharma. Now we know that there have been many class-action lawsuits, including several filed by state governments and attorneys general, accusing the Sackler family, who owned Purdue Pharma and ran Purdue Pharma, of paying doctors to overprescribe OxyContin, which was produced by Purdue Pharma. That led to everyone becoming addicted, and then when they can no longer get OxyContin with insurance or a prescription, they just started using heroin because synthetic opioids are chemically similar to heroin. And where did that heroin come from? It came largely from Afghanistan. And the Taliban, with all the valid criticisms that can be made of them, I am not a fan of the Taliban, but after the withdrawal of the US military and their takeover, heroin production in Afghanistan collapsed. Now there is a very good new book about this called Fort Bragg Cartel by Seth Harp. A US military veteran, he talks about the military's involvement in drug trafficking, including heroin in Afghanistan. Returning to Venezuela, it is not a joke; Venezuela has no connection to drug trafficking. This is the excuse being used to justify attacks against Venezuela. I have already explained why the United States is targeting Venezuela, but in this case, the accusation is totally unfounded. What the Trump administration is claiming, starting from the first Trump administration in its first Justice Department, is the following. They said they filed charges in US courts against the president of Venezuela as if they had jurisdiction over that country. It is absolutely crazy. I do not know of any country in the world that claims its own local courts have jurisdiction over foreign leaders in foreign countries. We saw the same thing happen with the United States and China filing charges against Chinese companies like Huawei. I mean, we saw basically the kidnapping of Huawei's CFO in Canada. Huawei, a Chinese company, was accused of violating US sanctions against Iran. They do not have to abide by US sanctions. Well, in the case of Venezuela, the first Trump administration claimed that the president of Venezuela, Maduro, is the head of a drug cartel called the Cartel of the Sun. The Cartel of the Sun does not exist. Many international drug experts have conducted investigations. There is no such thing as the Cartel of the Sun. It was literally created by the United States to create this legal narrative that Maduro is not a legitimate president, but rather the head of a drug cartel. So they can justify intervening to overthrow him, like the invasion of Panama in 1989, when the United States invaded, overthrew, and then imprisoned the leader of Panama, Manuel Noriega, who had been a CIA asset for a long time, by the way, and was involved in drug trafficking for the CIA. The situation in Venezuela is similar, but it is Maduro. There is no evidence of his involvement in drug trafficking. International drug experts have investigated this. The United Nations has investigated this. It is a farce used to justify military intervention. Tren de Aragua does exist. Tren de Aragua is a real drug cartel that is horrible. They have committed many crimes in Venezuela, and ironically, Venezuelan authorities have cracked down on these cartels like Tren de Aragua. The strategy is to create this false link, like the false claim that Saddam Hussein was linked to Al-Qaeda, when in reality Saddam Hussein had been repressing Al-Qaeda. Al-Qaeda did not like Saddam Hussein because he was a secular leader. He was Sunni, and although Iraq is mostly Shia, he was a secular leader who repressed Al-Qaeda. After 9/11, the United States tried to create a false link between them and conducted polls in the country. Most Americans believed that Saddam Hussein had a connection to Al-Qaeda, which is false. The same is happening now in Venezuela. The United States government has been trying to falsely link Maduro to Tren de Aragua by creating this false drug cartel supposedly called the Cartel of the Sun. And if you look at the supposed members that the United States claims are the leaders of this so-called cartel, they are all leaders of the Venezuelan government. It is Maduro and all his ministers. So I mean, this is a strategy to justify military intervention, and that really worries me. I really believe, I do not think the United States will send troops because that would obviously be very unpopular with the Make America Great Again base, but I really believe that all of this is escalating. The United States has already killed dozens of Venezuelans in international waters to carry out direct attacks in Venezuela. And according to Colombian President Gustavo Petro, who has strongly condemned what is happening, Petro has stated that Colombian citizens have been killed on these boats, and Trump claims without any evidence that they are supposedly trafficking drugs. There is no evidence of that. Ironically, many of these people are probably undocumented immigrants trying to enter other countries, so they are killed without charges or trial. Venezuela, dozens of Venezuelans. Now the Colombian government reports Colombians killed, and recently there have been reports of people from the Caribbean, citizens of Caribbean countries like that are also being killed now. And all of this continues to escalate. And one more quick thing I have to say is that Marco Rubio is behind this. You know, Trump, you know, he does not like Maduro and wants to keep the oil and all that. In 2023, at a meeting, Trump famously said, he said, "We were so close to taking over Venezuela. Those were his words. He said at a meeting that we would have gotten all that oil. You can see the video. But honestly, I do not think Trump is the main mastermind behind what is happening. This is 100% Marco Rubio. Throughout his career, he has been obsessed with overthrowing Cuba, the Sandinista government of Nicaragua, and then Venezuela, which is the cherry on top. Rubio is very close to far-right forces that are calling for US military intervention. María Corina Machado, the recent winner of the Nobel Peace Prize, is calling for and lobbying for the US military to invade her country. It sounds like a joke, but the British Broadcasting Corporation interviewed her right after she won the Nobel Peace Prize. In the interview, she called for the US military to invade Venezuela and called for war. And there are, you know, there are many different groups in the opposition. In Venezuela, there are more moderate right-wing forces, such as Enrique Capriles, who was a former presidential candidate who competed against Chávez and also against Maduro, a conservative right-wing leader. He has criticized María Corina Machado for being an extremist. He literally called her an extremist and said, "She wants a war, she wants to do to our country what they did to Libya." He and others have said that this could cause a civil war. If the US military intervenes, if there are bombings in Caracas, Trump confirmed that he has authorized the CIA for covert operations, and there are rumors that they are trying to kill Maduro. If they kill Maduro, it could literally cause a civil war like in Iraq, like in Libya, you know, Libya. Since 2011, NATO has been bombing Libya. There were no troops on the ground, but they killed Gaddafi. They destroyed the central government. It has been 14 years, and Libya still does not have a central government. Libya was the country with the highest standard of living in the north and throughout Africa, important and oil-rich. It is a failed state. There is still an ongoing civil war. I think this is very dangerous in Venezuela, and we must follow what happens closely. Oh, absolutely. And I think, you know, what has been well-documented. Ben, I mean, you touched on this historical topic that I think is profound because you know so much about Latin America. This is really why I wanted to have you on the show tonight, you know, to discuss this, because these are the facts that, you know, are not reported in the mainstream media. And certainly the vast majority of American citizens really do not know much about this history. As you mentioned with several case studies and examples, look at the history of the United States. I mean, we have a very, very deep history of intervening in many sovereign countries in Latin America, you know, coups and military operations. Frankly, the actions of the United States government in Latin America over the last century have been very bad, and I think that is why we are starting to see, as you mentioned, that excluding Mexico, most of these countries are now leaning towards China. We are starting to notice a strong de-dollarization effort. If any event occurs, this is the last question on this topic, specifically about Latin America and Venezuela. But in case this escalates, let's imagine that a Trump overthrows a Maduro. We do not want to see someone killed or anything like that. Of course, I am totally against war, and I believe that, as you said, this would cause a civil war. You gave the example of Libya. It is a great case study. 14 years later, the country is in disaster. We have just seen it in the United States. There are few cases where the United States intervenes in another country and the outcome is positive. Normally, we just do not see that from the United States. In fact, it normally ends in more chaos and a worse situation than when it began. I mean, do you see this, that this could be that Latin America then unites against the United States? Could they get closer to Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa? Get closer to China as a result, if the United States decides to escalate this to a point of very large conflict? Unfortunately, no. I wish I could say yes, I wish, but unfortunately, no. But of course, the answer is more complex than that. I will address the complexities. First, the region is very divided politically and economically. And second, there is a lot of fear. A lot of fear. And basically, the answer is that it is similar to what is happening in West Asia, you know, the Middle East, where many countries have been afraid to confront the United States and Israel because they do not want to be the next Palestine, they do not want to be the next Yemen, they do not want to be the next Iraq and Syria. In Iran, you know, Iran is one of the only countries. So, fear also there are economic reasons or economic motives. They do not want to lose trade or be sanctioned by the United States. In the case of Latin America, I mean literally all the countries in Latin America, except French Guiana, which is an overseas French territory, like an old French colony in South America, excluding French Guiana. The United States military has intervened in every country in the region, and in several more than once. I mentioned that in our lifetimes, the United States has invaded countries like Grenada. Well, I was not alive when they did anything in Grenada, but Grenada, Panama, and now they are carrying out these attacks and talking about drone attacks in Mexico. It is very possible that, as Trump says, Panama is also at risk if he decides to take control of the Panama Canal. And then Black Rock tried to buy the ports on both sides of the Panama Canal, which were operated by a Hong Kong company. Trump falsely claimed that China controls the Panama Canal, which is false. Black Rock announced the purchase of these ports, but the deal has not yet closed. The United States takes this very seriously, and this frightens many countries in the region. Some countries fear military intervention, others fear sanctions that we have seen devastate economies. Although China is their main trading partner, many of these countries still trade quite a bit with the United States. China is South America's main trading partner, and the United States is second. Correct. So they really do not want sanctions. This is what many people do not understand about Cuba. Cuba is a small island nation, I mean, and they have very little manufacturing and depended heavily on exporting commodities like sugar. The sanctions and blockade on Cuba have been devastating because the United States was their largest trading partner. Ah, how can they trade with other countries despite secondary sanctions? What company will risk exporting to Cuba if it can face secondary sanctions from the United States? So, they are blocked from the financial system, they cannot work with banks. As you know, I mean, anyone who has done business abroad. You often have to have a correspondent bank based in the United States to, for example, if you have a bank, say, in Malaysia, and you want to trade with someone in Brazil, well, your local banks almost certainly, their correspondent bank is in the United States, almost certainly, it will go through the Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication, according to US law. Every transaction that goes through the Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication and through a correspondent bank in the United States technically touches US territory. According to US law, all these banks must comply with US sanctions and money laundering laws and know-your-customer laws. This means that no one will risk doing business with Cuba, not even Venezuela. I mean, Venezuela does have a lot of oil, and people want to buy its oil, but you can buy oil from any other country. Many countries and companies minimize risks; they do not want to deal with sanctioned countries like Venezuela, Cuba, or Iran. Many countries in the region think the same way. They are afraid to speak up or raise their voices because they believe that if they do nothing, the United States will attack Venezuela, but they do not want to be the next Venezuela. This is the case in Colombia and also in Brazil, although Brazil is different because it is the largest country in America.

Latina. With more than 200 million inhabitants, it is the largest economy in Latin America. It has a quite advanced manufacturing sector, it has a lot of oil and raw materials. Brazil is large enough to go its own way. That is why it was a co-founder of Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa. The one seen in Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa is Brazil. And in fact, the co-founder of Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa was Lula da Silva. He is the only current leader who was an original co-founder. In 2009, Brazil, Russia, India, and China were founded. And in 2010, with the entry of South Africa, it became Brazil, Russia, India, China, and S. Since then, Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa has expanded and now represents the majority of the world's population and is becoming almost half of the world's gross domestic product. When measuring the gross domestic product of Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa in purchasing power parity, there are already 10 members and 10 partners expanding each year. In Latin America, there is great interest in joining Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa. So, Argentina had a previous center-left government under Alberto Fernández, and he accepted the invitation to join Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa. That happened in 2023, but he lost the election. This right-wing and pro-American leader Javier Milei, an ally of Trump, came to power. Argentina had formally accepted the invitation to join Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa and would have joined on January 1, 2024, but he withdrew Argentina before they joined Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa. I mentioned all those fear factors and the risk of sanctions. The other factor I mentioned is simply division. So, there are political divisions and Latin America. In Asia and Europe, it is not always so simple. In Europe, there are left-wing leaders very critical of the United States and NATO, like Jean-Luc Mélenchon in France or Jeremy Corbyn in the United Kingdom. But there are also some right-wing leaders like Viktor Orbán, who is much more critical of NATO and more sympathetic towards China and Russia. In Asia, it is more politically complex, but in Latin America, it is simple. Left-wing leaders criticize the United States and seek better ties with China, Russia, and Brazil. Russia, India, China, and South Africa. And right-wing leaders are practically all very pro-United States, because, you know, they all generally represent certain importing sectors or certain commodity groups that export to the US market, and they do all their trade with the United States. That is changing a bit. For example, in Chile, you know, there was a right-wing president, Sebastián Piñera, a billionaire who did a lot of trade with China, but for the most part, right-wing leaders are very pro-United States. You know? Javier Milei in Argentina, María Corina Machado in Venezuela, Jair Bolsonaro in Brazil, they are all very pro-United States and anti-China. And in fact, China has become a political issue in Latin American elections, a bit like in the United States, you know, the way US politicians blame China for everything, even though China has nothing to do with those problems. That has been happening in Latin America. So in Brazil, Jair Bolsonaro blamed China for all these problems. I mentioned that Javier Milei in the Argentine elections stated, "I will cut relations with communist China. Communist China is so evil." And then what happens is, you know, he came to power and realized, you know, this is the largest trading partner, you have to be a bit more diplomatic. The point is that left-wing leaders tend to be very pro-Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa, very pro-China. And they want to join Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa, but there are also divisions. So the last thing I will say here is that Venezuela has been pushing to join Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa for years, for many years. And Venezuela officially applied to join Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa. At the Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa 2024 summit in Kazan, Russia, all members, except one, agreed that Venezuela should join Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa. It was actually Brazil that boycotted Venezuela's entry. So that shows that there are also these internal divisions within the Latin American left, which also makes unity more difficult. This means that if the United States threatens Venezuela, there is less likely to be unity to defend it. So this is another reason why I think, you know, it's the same thing that has happened in Africa for so long. Many African leaders have said that we need African unity, Pan-Africanism, but it is very difficult. And after all these divisions, what happens? That allows foreign powers to divide and conquer. And the lack of unity makes it difficult to defend one's sovereignty. Yes, said Ben, thank you very much for your incredible insights on Latin America and truly again the history lesson, the context, the nuances that we need to understand that. We will continue to observe because I agree with you. I also share that same sentiment, that this is a potential flashpoint and it just seems like an escalation. Every time US military ships get close to your country. Also, I liked your comment about the Nobel Peace Prize. I mean, yes, I feel like there was a much more political angle to it than probably many people realize. In the sense that, you know, again, as soon as the lady who won this starts giving the speech, you know, she says, "The first thing I want to do is, you know, we want to see the United States actually start a war in my home country. You should also consider the implications of that. That would be because it suits them to start selling this oil to the United States, and I think she could benefit from that. You know? I know she comes from a very wealthy family in Venezuela and certainly has again that financial incentive to go down that path. I hope you enjoyed the interview with Ben Norton. As you know, the situation in Latin America changes every day. That makes it more important to stay on top of this key geopolitical point. Not only could Venezuela collapse, but it could also lead the United States into another major conflict with devastating effects on the global economy. If Ben's comments were helpful to you, subscribe. He will return to the channel soon to talk about the future of the United States and the rise of China. Thank you for your support.