Transcription
[Music]
Let's go across the big pond and talk to Sophie in London. What's up, Sophie?
Hi there, Dr. John. Thank you so much for speaking with me.
Of course. Thanks for calling in. How, how are you doing?
I'm doing great. It's freezing here, but the sun is shining, so that's great. How about you?
It's freezing here and it's pitch dark, so, yeah, the land of sadness. What's up?
Sunshine here. Well, I'll try to be, I'll try to be all the sunshine you need for today. So, what's up?
Oh, awesome. Thank you. Um, so, uh, if it's okay, I, I'll give a bit of context first because otherwise my question makes no sense. Um, so, um, essentially, uh, through my whole working life, um, I've been really well known for working well over my contracted hours. Um, I've been in my current workplace for three years. Um, my managers have really recognized that, uh, that I work far too long. Um, and they really, really tried to encourage me to change that, um, which I've really resisted, um, till recently. But I have, um, since just before Christmas, really tried hard to pull my hours back. And, um, I'm suddenly experiencing a lot of, um, anxiety, um, to the point of, um, extremely embarrassing. Uh, I'm having panic attacks at work. And, um, so I'm in the process of finding a counselor and, um, I'm working on my self-care routine as well. But I'm wondering if you had any other advice. And ultimately, I need to, uh, communicate all of this to my colleagues, um, and my managers, um, that I'm really, really trying, um, but, yeah, I don't really know what I'm doing.
I'm so proud of you. What you're talking about is the curse of the western world. And it sounds like your body reached a place. It, mine reached about, it was about 10 years ago when my body said, "Hey, I've been trying to get your attention for so long. I quit." Right? Because if I don't quit, yeah, I'm hoping it doesn't quit. Well, it's, it's, it's basically like one of your tires has fallen off. That's what a panic attack is. That's when your body's like, "Oh, you're not getting this message, so we're just going to start shutting the system down." Right? Yeah.
So, um, man, this would be, you would be somebody who I'd love just to go have a drink with and sit for a couple hours because my guess is you've got a long story. It's that's pretty, it's pretty remarkable. Is that fair?
I don't know. I talk about work a lot, so I probably bore you to tears.
Okay, so let me, let me just cut to it. What does, um, work is your drug. And so, my friend, you've heard me say this if you ever listen to the show. My friend in Simpkins, he lives right down the street here. Uh, he says, "If busyness is your drug, rest will feel like stress." So you've put your entire identity into work, hours, and production, even to the point that now it's, you were that fun kid at the bar who everyone loved having around because you would always have one or two drinks too many and you were hilarious. You do the funny thing, you would just go kiss the dude at the bar like you were the fun friend. And now your friends are like, "Hey, dude, you got to slow down." That's your bosses. Do you realize what a crazy thing when your boss is like, "You got to quit working"? No boss says that, right? No, it's a standing joke.
So what is, what is work allowing you to hide from in your life?
That's a very good question that I wish I had a, a solid answer for. I don't really, uh, I don't really know. And, and I'm aware that's something that I probably need to, to kind of...
I think you do. I think you do. I think you don't want to say it. What is your body trying to protect you from? Is it going home to an empty house? Is it loneliness? Are you married? Do you have kids?
Uh, I have a partner. No kids. Uh, foster cat. Um, so, uh, going home to the foster cat. My partner, when he, when he's home, cuz he works weird shifts.
Yeah, here's what, here's what working a lot did for me. I didn't know how to be a husband. I didn't know what I was doing. In the first four or five years I was married, I just got a clear message: I was doing it wrong. And I didn't know what to do. And I opened up my toolkit to try to fix, quote unquote, fix my marriage. And there was just a hammer in there. That's it. I mean, I didn't know what to do. And, but one thing I did know how to do is go work. And so I took extra jobs and extra shifts. And then I got a pat on the back initially. And then I got some extra money in my account initially. And then my wife could do some cooler things. And it felt right.
Yeah, I, I don't, you're saying that I, you don't, um, you, uh, didn't know how to be, uh, a husband. I, I don't know how to be a, a person who goes home or a person who stops working. Um, I, I just, so I like to be occupied.
Yeah, but, but what is your body so terrified from? Did you grow up with scarcity growing up? Did you have food insecurity growing up?
No, uh, food insecurity, um, very, um, very fortunate, very aware of my privilege.
Okay. Did, did, um, was achievement the way that your dad patted you on the head or your mom? Or did you come up in a really safe, wonderful environment?
Of, often without meaning to, very high-achieving, very, um, well-meaning parents. Really do a dance when they're straight A's. They really do a dance when, um, there's more money being made.
That's really interesting because over time, and by the way, this isn't moral failure. This gets encoded in your nervous system. Your body begins to understand through biochemical processes that the way to connection, the way to love those that are most important to me when you're a kid, it's the adults in your life, is achievement, busyness, earning money, getting grades, getting into the right schools, getting the right...
[Music]
Marks. That's interesting. I remember something my dad said to me that, um, I got exam results through and I'd got like 98 out of 100. And his response was, "What happened to the other two?"
Oh, man. We're more similar than you think, Sophie. Uh, my dad and him, and I have laughed about this. Um, I got one B, I think it was, my first semester in college, maybe my second semester in college. I got one B. I was so ex, I was, I was thrilled, right? Because that was kind of a mess, actually. My first semester of college, I don't think I did great. Second semester, I was like, "Dude, this is school, and I'm smarter than this. I got to put some effort into this." And I got all A's and one B. And my dad's first response was, "Huh, would have killed you to just get one more?" And I remember that, like that deflated feeling. And he wasn't meaning that at all. I think he was completely kidding. But he didn't have the tools to go, "Hey, you've turned this thing around. I'm proud of you." He didn't have that. His dad didn't do that. And his, my dad, my granddad's dad died when he was 10, so he didn't have that skill set, right? But I, I learned early on, oh, you will achieve. Yeah. It's interesting. Even my parents are like, "You work ridiculous hours and you should really, like, of course, try to leave the office."
So you've heard me talk about anxiety a lot. It's essentially everyone. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Everyone who cares about you is watching you die. And there's something inside of you that is so terrified of being alone with Sophie that you will do anything, even up and death, to avoid dealing with Sophie, or dealing is probably dramatic, just being with your body. Has identified stillness, a cup of tea in the morning, just asking your partner to, to take the morning off and let's just go for a walk, even though it's pitch black outside. Your body has put a GPS pin in that that says, "Danger, danger, danger, danger. We got to stay working." And I'm telling you, the only way through that is to go directly into that anxiety. There's not another path. You can't go around it. And self-care routine kind of things, that is just Band-Aids on top of it. It just is. Okay? Anyone who's like, "Well, you should just have a warm cup of tea and take a hot bath," just walk away from them. This is deeper than that. This is encoded in...
Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. When I, when I say like self-care routine, I'm meaning making sure that I go for a walk at lunchtime, get some fresh air. Okay. But it's, it's way bigger than that, which in itself is, which in itself is torturous. It's leaving my death. But, but I'm talking, it's bigger than that. This is you saying, um, "I will only work eight hours today." And I will put a thing on my computer that shuts my computer off at the end of eight hours. And I'm going to feel so anxious. I'm not going to know what to do with my hands. I'm not, my body's going to go. And I'm going to head directly into that feeling. Not flip the computer back up, work my way around that software program, and then get back to it. My phones will go off at 6 PM, period. I will not turn them back on, period. And I'm going to feel that sense of powerlessness. I'm gonna own it. And only then can you ask yourself, "What do I actually want to do right now?" Because here's my problem, and you probably experience it too. I love working. I like it. Yeah, like I actually like it. And you have to think of it like alcohol. Like it's okay to like having a drink. It's okay to like having two. Then it will kill you. See what I'm saying?
Yeah, I think so. But I don't think you want to. Please tell me. Tell me. Tell me. I'm so curious because I, you know, what are you scared of?
I think you know. What is it?
Don't know. Who say it?
It's like, I don't know.
Sorry. Don't be sorry at all. This is hard stuff. It's like, I don't know who I'm going home to.
Yeah. Is your partner safe?
Mostly. Yeah.
That means no. That's a really bad, that's a really bad answer.
No, it's not. It's an "uh-huh."
No, you can't walk it back now. You already said it. It's a truthful answer. It's not a bad answer. You can't be mostly safe because that means you're not safe. And now it makes perfect sense to me why your body has said, "You will go to work and you will stay at work. You will keep working. And then you will keep working on top of that." And your bosses are like, "Oh my gosh." So if you go home and your parents are like, "Honey, go home." And your body's saying, "We can't." Are you going to love Sophie enough to go safe? Sorry, I'm trying to order the words in my head.
And no, don't, don't just speak. Just speak.
[Applause]
I don't think I realized till you asked the question. I know it's scary. I want you to do something you probably haven't done in a long time. And instead of fighting your body, fighting that need to go work, finding that need to not be in your home, I want you to flip the whole script. Put your hand in your chest and ask yourself this question: "What if my body's right? What if the safest place for me on planet Earth is at a work environment where, God, what amazing bosses you have. They're even caring about you outside of here. They care about your mental and physical health and well-being." There's not a lot of bosses on planet Earth that act like that.
That's very true. That is very true. You still have Mom and Dad. That, ah, man, they probably, man, if, if, if they could do it over, of course they would change some things. But they still care about their baby girl. And then you go home to a dragon. You know, if he's going to be a sleeping dragon, or if there's going to be, everything's going to be on fire. So here's the deal. I'm not going to put you on the spot because I know this is hard. And if you've never thought about this before, it can be really overwhelming inside your body. I'm going to ask, please, please call somebody today and go get in and go see somebody. And in your situation, I don't really care what the cost is because you're not safe physically.
Okay. Fair.
Okay. But I'm going to tell you, it sounds to me like your body's working perfectly. And in a strange way, thank God it's chosen work as the avenue of safety over some sort of substance, over some sort of, um, thrill-seeking behavior. And I'm going to say this too. I don't know that your colleagues at work need to know the insights of all of what's going on in your life. Maybe they're safe enough and you can tell them. But if you're in an abusive situation, you've got to go find a place for your body to be safe. And you, if you ever listen to the show for more than two episodes, you know I don't ever tell people to end a relationship, get out. I'm telling you, get out. If he's not safe, get out. It's the only way your body's going to let you breathe. We love you, Sophie. We're here anytime you want to call. Reach out anytime. Any resources we got for you, whether it's financial, uh, support, or whether it is, uh, through the, The Total Money Makeover stuff and Financial Peace, or it's any of the books, anything we can do to help you, let me know. We got you. I think it's time to ask yourself, "Where can I go and be safe?" God, I know this is hard, but you deserve to be safe.