Transcription
How long have you been meditating for? Actually, 42 years. And what got you started? The Beatles. When the Beatles started meditating and they drew attention to it, it was a curiosity, and I thought I would try it. And then, um, it's changed my life. It's the big, the biggest, uh, influence in whatever success I've had in life.
So, can you remember what it was like in the first few weeks or the first few months? Yeah, I remember wrestling around with it. I remember that, you know, you go into the mantra. I went into the mantra, then the thoughts would come back, and it would be that back and forth. And then, as it got better and better and I got deeper into it, the thoughts would become more valuable, more tantalizing. And it was almost, you know, more of a temptation to think about those particular thoughts because I didn't want to lose those ideas. And then I knew that I had to push those away, and it was almost difficult. And then, after a while, I remember then disappearing into it, and that was something.
What were the first, uh, benefits that you found in in the practice as as the habit grew, as it became part of your life? Well, the first, the first benefits were that ability, that they have the quietness, the tranquility, um, the ability to get energy from it rather than sleep. It would provide me more energy than sleeping, um, those kinds of benefits. But then it went on to develop an ongoing equanimity, that that centeredness, that ability to go above myself and my circumstances and to look down at them from a higher level with a clarity and an objectivity. And then it started to bring out my subconscious and my creativity because subsequently I've studied, uh, neuroscience. I've been very interested in that, and and I've learned that there's a part of our brain in the neocortex, which is where imagination exists, which is where creativity exists, and it opened me to that. I experienced it. I didn't understand what was happening at the time, but it provided those things as time went on.
Where did the understanding of the the, you might say, the discipline of the mantra come from? Because you realize during the meditation you were having great ideas and imagination and creativity, but you also knew that you had to let go of those ideas at the time of the meditation and keep going back to the mantra. Was that a natural instinct or? Well, that was that difficult, you know. The natural instinct was to go to the ideas, um, but I also, uh, combination of a teacher and and and the realization that as I would go deeper, I was going to get more, um, encouraged me to go deeper. And it's not easy to throw away those good ideas.
Yeah, you told me once that, uh, your interest in in, uh, investment wasn't just to make money. It was also the fascination of the the game. Uh, how did that happen? Well, when I started, when I was when I was caddying, and I earned, you know, six dollars a bag, I'd go around and have my twelve dollars. And so two things were happening simultaneously, um, at that time. I, I was interested in making some money with that originally, um, but also the game of it caught me. So I got very enthralled by the game of it. And, um, money, vast amounts of money, was never a major, major objective of mine, even early on. It was the game of it that, uh, hooked me.
So you wouldn't say you were caught up in any way in the in greed and the culture of greed that we see around? No, no, no, no, no. It was, it's never been. I'm a very simple person, you know. I can. So no, it's never been anything like greed. I think greed is unhealthy.
And the meditation, how has the meditation helped you stay, as it were, detached from the money and from all that came with it? Well, I mean, first of all, let's be clear. I mean, money has no purpose other than there's something for it. So the question is, what are the things you're going after in life? And they never, you know, bigger car, bigger house. These are not the most important things for me. But in any case, what meditation has done all for me is to be able to help me step back and see things at a higher level. And when we talk about spirituality, and I'm not a religious person, but when we talk about spirituality, um, spirituality to me is the ascending to a level where you feel connected to the whole. And so you realize you're part of that whole. And literally, brain science, neuroscience has shown how that comes because they, if you take brain imaging through meditation, they show that the prefrontal cortex, the part of the brain that really almost really defines man, lights up. And the part of the brain which is the animal part of the brain that produces these, uh, fight or flight reactions and that anxiety, the amygdala calms down. And so physiologically, the brain changes as a result of that meditation. And the result of that, as we're evolving, as brains evolve, is to bring us above that and to create creates a connection.
Okay, so that's the science. So we know that meditation isn't just theoretical. It actually is biologically and neurologically, uh, grounded and can be described in those terms to some degree. What's the, what's the actual expression of that in terms of life, relationships, decisions, work? You say that you have this meditation gives you this higher perspective, it's a higher level of detachment and so on. Uh, at that higher level, when you, when you know, we all go up and down, maybe on it, where you see things from that perspective, what are the essential values of life? Well, you're asking my essential values. Yeah. Okay. My own essential values is that, um, I think evolution, personally, to evolve, um, and I think it's the nature of the universe. That the most powerful thing in the universe is the only thing that lasts is evolution. And for me, it's to, um, evolve, um, in my learning and my getting a higher level of perspective. It comes to having almost the sense of a greater understanding of the universe, and then a greater appreciation of my connection with the universe. So I feel very connected, um, in that way, and with people, with people. So as and beyond people, with nature, people, and nature, um, that wholeness, that's that's that's for me. You know, I, I think, uh, people are, um, one of 30 million species, and there's the whole connection to that whole thing. So, you know, that's what I.
But in a, and again, in a very, um, also, um, a very basic way, when you find yourself under stress and anxiety, things go wrong, you get disappointments, uh, things don't work out as you hoped, you must feel a moment of anxiety, a moment of stress. How do you deal with that? What happens? Um, I can go out of the stress. I can, at any moment, like there are times when I, I feel the stress of the circumstances, and then I can, at will, go out of that stress and just see things in a different way. And it makes me feel almost like a ninja, you know, when the in the ninja, everything seems to come in slow motion, you know, and in the sense, you could step back, and it's coming at me at slow motion, and I can deal with it in in a way that makes me feel more centered and in control. But like tennis players, they say at the height of their game, the ball seems to go much slower. The whole game slows down, yeah. And it's really that equanimity that produces that kind of a reaction, as distinct from when you have the anxiety, there's not the clarity, there's, it's all coming too fast.
Okay, so let's just take a scenario. You're in your office, and you've had made some decisions, and then those decisions are, you know, you have to revisit them because if something has happened, or the markets have changed, or the advice has changed, and then you feel disappointment, or stress, or anger, irritation about something. How does the, where does the meditation? Does it, is it at the same time, or does it, is it later in the day? No, no, no. For me, the way it, it, it, it's changed my perspective, meaning I'm ex, it's all the way reality works. So, in other words, I, I don't view it, bad things are going to happen to me. I just view it as things happen. And so I view reality almost like a machine in which one thing happens after another, and I accept reality. I think reality is beautiful, even though it's challenging. So when I look at it, I, it's almost like everything is another one of those. I put it in perspective. And I don't know if I'm being clear, but, um, so all the same things happen over and over and over again. So, and so by sitting back and seeing, away, it's another one of those. Or why is it? But when do you sit back and say that in the middle of the anxiety? For me, now, it's, it's become in the middle of simultaneously. Right. So simultaneously in the middle of the anxiety, um, and it's taken me, you know, a long time to get there. But by and large, as it's coming, whatever the circumstances are, I'm, I'm so close to that. Sometimes I'll feel a, you know, that twinge of anxiety, but I can bring myself into the position and I say, okay, let me step back and say, how does the world work? These things will happen. It's not, and it's not like there's, um, um, [Music] it's a, always a [Music] it's just the way reality works. It's an acceptance of reality. And I think it's almost an acceptance of reality works in a beautiful way, and I have to just operate in harmony with that reality. So it's my responsibility to be calm and to operate in harmony with that reality, whatever that reality is. By far the best investment you can make is in yourself. If you invest in yourself, nobody can take it away from you.