Scarlet Witch is dead! Interview with Trial of Magneto writer Leah Williams

Xavier is dead. Apocalypse reigns. This is the age of Apocalypse.

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Welcome to Power of X-Men: Apocalypse, the podcast where we review every single issue of the classic, reality-warping, high-octane epic X-Men crossover event known as Age of Apocalypse. I'm your co-host, Dave Spring, and I am your other co-host, Mr. Scott Free.

Folks, we're taking a little break from Age of Apocalypse this week because we have a very special, wonderful, extraordinary guest today. And that is right, we have Leah Williams, X-Men writer extraordinaire. Uh, she joined us and sat down. Let's talk about X-Factor, Trial of Magneto, X-Men: Black, and some of her other, uh, work with, um, Marvel. And it was a great conversation, great deep dive. If you love to learn about Emma Frost and Walmart and Northstar, it's just like, we hit all the notes. Yeah.

So, if you're here for Leah Williams, welcome. If you're a long-time member of the Power of X-Men familia, you're in for a treat. Scott, we do ask her the million-dollar question about Trial of Magneto: Is it possible that Wanda may become a mutant at the end of the series? And, and she does give us a, a fairly straightforward answer without spoiling anything. I mean, obviously, we're not going to spoil it because we want you to listen. But, uh, listen to this. Listen to this. Uh, she does give us an answer. She gives us actually a bunch of answers on some, like, you know, pressing questions and like Trial of Magneto and other stuff that's going on and like, you know, just, I mean, listen. Like, take it in. Just like, enjoy, enjoy it almost as much as we enjoy doing it.

Before we roll the interview with Leah Williams, we just want to shout out our patrons for supporting us. Thank you to Gray from Aaron and Halar Podcast, Mini Mated, and Cole Weathers, who have been contributing to our Patreon. Thank you, thank you. And, yeah, you know, just go there, smash that Patreon link, uh, join the family. And, you know, here is our interview with Leah Williams.

Leah, everyone on X, Instagram, Twitter, like, loves you. Oh gosh, thanks. I love X Twitter and, and X-Men nerds on Instagram and in general, too. It's always a lot of fun. Your vibes are just so wonderful. And I remember how excited everyone was when it was announced you were going to be writing X-Factor because you had been popping up around the X-Office with Age of X-Man and X-Men: Black. And then when you started X-Factor, it's like everyone was just gravitating towards that book.

Oh gosh, thank you so much. Yeah, it, um, was a huge shock to me when, when I was asked to write X-Factor. And I felt like Jordan, you know, Jordan D. White, Senior X-Men Editor. I was like, "Are you insane? What's wrong with you? Why are you? You need to do that." But it, it definitely ended up being one of the, the most satisfying and fulfilling experiences of my life. It was just totally exhilarating.

It's been a wild ride and super exciting. Well, we, we have plenty of X-Factor questions because, uh, Scott here may be obsessed with a certain grumpy mutant elf. Big, big Northstar fan. So, oh, hell yeah. Yeah. A couple questions, just some couple questions there. But before we get into X-Factor, just, we want to get to know a little bit about you. And can you tell us, what was your first experience with the X-Men growing up?

So, it was actually, um, X-Men: Evolution, the cartoon. I, I loved it. Had a huge, huge crush on Goth Rogue. But I, I grew up in, like, a small town in Mississippi where I didn't have access to comics. Well, not very many, at least. So, what I did have was the X-Men cartoon, X-Men: Evolution. And at James's Food Center, the grocery store, they had these like Archie and Jughead digests by the, the checkout counter. So, that was my first exposure to both comics and X-Men through the cartoon. And I didn't get into comics until I was in college. And I didn't get into X-Men comics until a year after I graduated and started working in a comic book shop because suddenly I had access to just so many back issues. And I wanted to tackle X-Men continuity, which is kind of notoriously convoluted and difficult to get into. So, I was like, "Okay, challenge accepted." But I was still intimidated enough that I kind of came in at it sideways through the peripheral titles like Excalibur and X-Factor. So that's like my nostalgia center with X-Men comics.

The original Excalibur run is my favorite comic series of all time. And, you know, Peter David's X-Factor, it just has a huge place in my heart too. You know, it's so funny that how you were talking about like X-Men continuity being notoriously difficult and all over the place. I credit the X-Men for my ability to like decipher like dense literary theory once I got into like college and I was reading stuff like Judith Butler and "The Psychic of Sex." And that was just such a walk in the park when you've been reading comic books since you were like five and you had to figure out who Madelyne Pryor was and why her time-traveling son is older than her, but her clone is still around and raising them. It's, it's like an informational fetch quest.

Well, and because like, you know, back in the, back in those days, you didn't have Wikipedia. You know, maybe, maybe you went on uncannyxml.net and you read some of the articles, or you got some of the X-Men encyclopedias. But you, you had to piece all this information together. And we were talking to Zeb Wells about that. It makes you like a little archaeologist.

Oh, yeah, absolutely. And, you know, Marvel Unlimited didn't exist. Um, these like pirated comic sites, those didn't exist either. So you didn't have access to, you know, a digital library of back issues. Like, on that note, like, what was it about like the X-Men that like attracted you to them? Like, what made the X-Men like special for you?

The fact that they're very, they are othered. And, and while the marginalization metaphor obviously has its, you know, flaws and complications, and it's kind of no longer as resonant as it was when Chris Claremont first implemented it in the '80s. I, as like a young queer woman who, you know, grew up in Mississippi and didn't have access to queer representation. I didn't know that I was bisexual for most of my life. I thought I was just some kind of monster. Like, I thought I was straight but a little bit of a tart, you know? And it made me feel terrible and monstrous. And I just kind of carried that feeling for a very long time, right up until my world started expanding and I started, you know, connecting with more, um, queer communities online and queer nerds and queer X-Men fans. And I think that there's something intrinsic about, uh, queerness and X-Men comics. Or, you know, any, any identity that is othered. There's, there's a special connection to X-Men comics because it's a struggle that they're constantly dealing with.

When you're very young and you're watching shows like X-Men: Evolution, in my case, it was the X-Men Animated Series, but the idea that there's the school full of other people like you, other outcasts, and they're just waiting to welcome you. And you will be dysfunctional, you know, because that's what family is. And, yeah, it's about found family and community building. And it's just such a powerful message for a, a kid or a young person to inhale. And I remember like, there was such a difference between the way my primo read X-Men. Like, he saw Wolverine popping his claws, he saw Storm conjuring, like, the weather. And I was seeing the metaphor in it. And you take so much out of the, the, the idea of otherness and that specialness.

Yeah, absolutely. Okay, you loved Goth Rogue. I mean, Goth Rogue is pretty incredible. But when you got it, I mean, she's, I feel like any time Goth Rogue comes up on like the feed, everyone goes insane for her. She needs to make a comeback.

Oh, absolutely. But, um, when you started reading the comics, when you were reading Excalibur and X-Factor, what did you, uh, have a particular favorite comic book X-Men?

I loved the dysfunction of the Excalibur cast. Like, it was so irreverent and, um, you know, witty and, and quick and quippy. And I loved, uh, the dynamic between, um, Kurt and Megan, and Megan and Kitty, and everybody. And Megan and humans. And, um, Rachel and Kitty, of course. And, uh, Kitty in particular. I wouldn't call her my favorite character, um, but it's because she is the character who I see the most of myself in. And that means I'm a lot harder on her than I am other characters. I just want her to be better than she is. And, um, she, in particular, really resonates with my experience as a bisexual woman. And, you know, not knowing for a long time that bisexuality existed. But the way that she interacts with Rachel and with, um, Saturnine, like, there's lots of queer-coded, um, kind of sapphic relations that Kitty has with other characters. And I, I could see my own experiences reflected in that. And I just want to like smack her on the back of the head and be like, "Get your [ __ ] together. You're bi." Okay? That's a man named Peter. Oh, oh, Colossus. Oh, Peter Quill. Peter Wisdom. Yeah.

You know, Kitty is one of those characters that I finally feel like in the books, she's come into her own. Because I, I've said this before, my problem with Kitty in the past has been, she's whatever a certain writer wants her to be. She, she can be a college ingenue, she can be in space, or she can be the headmistress of the Xavier Institute. And I feel like what we've been seeing in Marauders has been a journey to really establishing her as a character.

Yeah, I, I totally agree. And I've really, really appreciated, uh, Gerry Duggan's, um, approach to it because that is something he had in mind from the very start. And we had lots of discussions about, you know, how to give Kate more, more agency and bring her back into a leadership role because she's by far earned it, you know? Um, and, you know, remind people that she's [ __ ] badass. Like, she is literally a ninja.

Oh, and she could be a valley girl too. Thinking of X-Men: Evolution, like that valley girl accent they gave her. I don't know.

Oh my god, it was so amazing. Yeah, I, I loved it. I used to go to like Burger King and I would try to do like the Kitty accent when I was ordering. And I'll never forget someone like mocked me back with that. They're like, they said something like, like, "Okay, yeah, sure." And I was so thrown off by it. But I love, I, I do love Kitty Pryde quite a bit in X-Men: Evolution. Uh, I, I have to do an X-Men: Evolution re-watch.

Yeah, I, I do too. I own the DVDs too. Like, I am fully empowered to do a re-watch like right now if I wanted to. And sort of like the same vein, like at the opposite of the spectrum, who's your least favorite comic book mutant?

My gut instinct is to also say Kitty Pryde, um, because of what, what I just mentioned. Um, let me, let me see if I can find a better answer. Oh, Charles. Charles Xavier. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Xavier and Beast. Beast is also good. We, we rag on Beast all the time. I, I like you. I know. I'm sorry, Leah Williams. He's like really bad [ __ ] right now. But I don't think that it's, it's out of character for him to have this kind of darker path, you know? Because he's always been kind of a mad scientist. And, you know, Ben Percy, if I trust any writer to, to really explore that and do it justice, it's, it's gonna be Mr. Percy. Um, and Mr. Percy is amazing. He's fantastic. I never knew what like non-toxic masculinity looked like in comics. And still, I started reading Ben Percy writing Wolverine teaching Quentin Quire how to be a better man. And I was like, "Okay, I get this now. I'm on board." Yeah, he's, um, he's such a phenomenal writer. Yeah. Xavier. Yeah. I mean, he's, he's a jerk. And, and we're so excited with everything that's happening, obviously, with Inferno. We, we did see the interview with Jordan that Inferno is being delayed. But like, ah.

So, was there a particular story in the X-books that you look back on that just really resonated with you?

Grant Morrison's New X-Men definitely knocked me on my ass. And I, I had never read anything like it. Um, and it was my first introduction to so many of those characters. Beak, uh, Tempo, um, and, you know, they're, they're kind of like a part of my X-Men DNA, I guess we would call it now. So, that was really formative. In addition to, like, I said, Excalibur and X-Factor. And also, um, the Magic mini-series. The four-issue Magic mini-series. Oh, yeah. Kind of indelibly ingrained into my X-Men DNA because I keep revisiting it over time. And it means so much more to me now as like a grown-up who's been through some [ __ ] and I'm able to recognize more of, you know, what, what is kind of seeded throughout it. The themes of like trauma and abuse and that kind of thing that I wasn't really able to see past face value upon my first read. And it's, it's so, it's so dear to me.

And so is Magic. Isn't it wonderful that you can revisit certain stories and like see different layers in them? I think that's just such a beauty of being a comic book stan. And as you age with these characters and you look back on those narratives.

Absolutely. Yeah. And speaking of, uh, Greg Morrison, they've had their own really big journey. And I'm forgetting the quote when, when they came out as, uh, non-binary. And I, I want to remember what they said. But they, they said something to the effect of that they had always done something and they never knew there was a word for it until now. And it was just so beautiful hearing that. And, and I think, I, I mean, I think the world of Morrison. I mean, Morrison brought me back to the books with New X-Men. That was a phenomenal story.

Yeah, it was groundbreaking. You know, after some of the stuff in the '90s, like, big sort of tonal shift and, you know, set the stage for everything that's come, like, since. But, like, how does it feel to like be part of sort of like the legacy now of like the X-Men? Like, following, like, you know, uh, Lee and Kirby and Claremont and Morrison? Like, like, what is it like to be part of that?

In all honesty, I've compartmentalized it. I don't, um, view myself as being a part of that legacy. I, um, I don't know. There's just something kind of discordant. I can't wrap my brain around it. But what I can wrap my brain around is what an honor it is to be a part of kind of this era of X-Men. Like, I'm a very proud part of Hickman's X-Men. And it's, it's like, I think literally the best thing that's ever happened to me. This, this time in, in my life. And getting to work with these peers who've become my very favorite people on the planet. All the other X-Men writers. It's, it's been absolutely phenomenal. So that's something that I do, you know, have so much pride and gratitude for. But I do not categorize myself even remotely similarly to, you know, the, the greats that came before me. That, it's a different time, different style of comics, different, different industry, different everything.

Yeah, speaking of different everything, one of the things the X-Office has been doing in the Hickman era is be on your legendary X-Slack. And everyone we've spoken to from Jordan D. White to Zeb Wells talks about how amazing it is. And we were, I was talking to Kelly Thompson on another podcast I do, and she was here like, "Yeah, the Spider-Man Slack isn't as good as the X-Men chat." Like, Slack. That is legendary. It is fully feral. And it's like my favorite place to hang out on the internet.

The moment that the X-Slack came into being, um, is when all of us started hanging out less on like Twitter and Instagram because suddenly we had this unhinged water cooler chat for like X-Men writers and editors specifically. And it just became the place to be. And it was like that before the pandemic. And then during the pandemic, um, we were all working on Ten of Swords and we got into the habit of just like waking up and first thing checking the Slack. And it would be, you know, full of chatter every single day. And one of my favorite things, uh, about the X-Slack, uh, that I learned during that time is like getting to wake up every morning and find, um, Gerry Duggan's night posts alongside the Brits' normal hours posts. Like, we would wake up to this entire conversation that happened overnight while the rest of us were sleeping. And it was like Christmas morning, just seeing how silly Gerry gets as the night goes on and everybody else is asleep.

But I, I love that you guys are are on that Slack because Ten of Swords, I mean, Jordan says something like he was so happy with it. Everything bubbled by. He's like, "Oh, but there were a few mistakes." I was like, "No, you guys had such a tight story there." And like, everything just lined up. And I don't, I think it shines through and everything in the Hickman era. And, and the data pages and everything. I mean, you guys can tell that you guys are so organized and you're setting the bar for other offices.

I'm glad to hear it because we've really enjoyed it. We enjoy it. We, um, do think that it makes the stories better and more cohesive because, uh, you know, we're all on the same page. We know what's happening in each other's books. So we don't struggle, you know, with sharing the same sandbox or, or that kind of thing. I think having kind of a communal space for every office is a great idea. I, I didn't know they were doing that, but I'm happy to hear it. That sounds cool. And, um, I, I don't think that it's X-Men. X-Men is kind of intrinsically feral in and of itself. So, I don't think that anything is going to be as, uh, insane as the X-Slack in particular. Like, you know, you've got Hickman and Zeb and Jerry and Ben and me and Tini and Vita and all of these people are like so much more hilarious and, uh, outgoing than you've ever seen on social media. So putting them into like a concentrated space just makes it all the more evident. I have thousands of screenshots of the dumb [ __ ] my peers say. I, I am so in love. It's, it's so much fun.

Well, speaking about being so in love, we love your X-Men: Black: Emma Frost. And I knew it was gonna be such a special issue when we opened up with Emma meeting Rogue at a Walmart-style store. And Rogue whispering to Emma and Suga. I just thought it would be funny.

I mean, that was brilliant. That was such a brilliant opening. Thank you. Um, can I see your notes? How did you nail both characters so well?

I'll, um, send you a copy of the X-Men: Black: Emma Frost script if you're interested in seeing it. Um, it's, it's, you know, one of the first things that I wrote for Marvel. Um, I think like the first full issue I wrote for Marvel, um, on my own. And I, uh, it's very clear how my mindset was. I don't deserve this in the way that I would add notes into the footnotes, like trying to explain myself and that kind of thing. So compared to the way that I write scripts now, which is, um, I basically write with the intention of making Jordan laugh. Like, you know, I, I story for everybody. I story for readers. I story for all of us. But I script for the people who are going to be reading the script. And it's, um, you know, like manic pixie [ __ ]. It is, it is full of inside jokes and links to playlists and completely inappropriate jokes that I would never get away with making if I didn't, you know, if I wasn't really close with the people that were going to be reading it. And the X-Men: Black: Emma Frost script, uh, you know, my first foray into something like this. And I was so amazed at how much freedom I was given. I thought that I was gonna have to justify the Walmart thing, you know, like stand my ground on it. And being from Mississippi, um, you know, Walmart is is a place you go to. There is nothing else open that late. So when you're like, you know, a teenager and there's no movie theaters open late and you're too young to get into bars and that kind of thing and you've got nowhere to go, the Walmart is the only thing that's open. So it's where teenagers hang out at night. And I remember, and I still have, um, this photo that I took, but I remember being in there at like 4:00 AM one night, way past my curfew, and just kind of like wandering the aisles. And then I, um, turned down the like greeting card aisle by chance. And there was a woman, most beautiful woman I have ever seen, dressed in all white, like bending over to peer closely at some greeting cards. And I just like stopped dead in my tracks. And then slowly reached for my cell phone and like took a creeper photo of her. Of course, I've never posted it anywhere, shared it, or anything like that.

It didn't land on people.walmart.com. No, absolutely not. No. But of course, now looking back at it, I'm like, "You idiot. How did you not know you were queer? Like, what is wrong with you?"

Well, I love that you manifested or you saw this Emma Frost there. Yeah. Well, it's what made me think of like, you know, okay, I, I had completely forgotten about that memory until I started writing X-Men: Black: Emma Frost. And I was thinking about, you know, where they would meet up in the beginning. And that memory like, you know, surged forth from the depths of my subconscious. I was like, "Oh my god, I have to, like, not only is Walmart integral to my existence as a Mississippian, like Rogue, but also integral to my queer awakening."

Well, like, but with with all that, like, what was it like writing Emma, like, for X-Men: Black? You know, I mean, it sounds like you saw, like, you know, Emma Frost, like doppelganger at Walmart. So, like, what was it like writing her?

Um, I, I wouldn't go so far to say it was her doppelganger in Walmart so much. But, uh, what was it like writing Emma Frost? Okay, so I'm obsessed with Emma Frost in a way that like isn't cool or easy to deal with if you're my editor. And I'm really lucky that Jordan has so much like kindness and patience, um, as a human being. Because when he first asked me to do this, and I was bringing him like my initial pitches and stuff, like what I wanted to accomplish for this character, um, I basically sent him an email that was like, 1200 words of Emma Frost fan fiction. And, you know, this is like my, my first year writing for Marvel. I didn't know what the conventions were and what the appropriate behavior was and if that was even okay. But it was okay because I, you know, was working with Jordan. And he looked at all of my, my thoughts and my concerns and what I wanted to do. And, um, out of the, the pitches that I gave, the one we, I can't even remember, remember the other ones because we ended up going with my favorite one, the one that I most hoped, uh, would get greenlit. Which is, you know, Emma Frost becoming the Black King.

Yeah, I mean, that was, I mean, I love that ending. That monologue. I mean, talking about grief and everything she's been through and, and, and that relationship with Shaw. I mean, that was wonderful. It was such a beautiful, powerful story.

Thank you. Thank you very much. It was an honor to be able to, uh, tell that story because it happened, you know, coming out of like IVX and the Terrigen Mists stuff. And M-Pox had been kind of taken the darker turn. And I wanted to sort of give her more agency and, and more opportunity to make her own choices and, and follow her own morality and that kind of thing. And I was so, so excited to do something additive with her and give her, uh, kind of new directions to go in.

So, if with that in mind, obviously in House of X, that kind of gets reversed because Emma point blank says, "You want me to bring back Shaw? But I just got rid of him." Were you disappointed with that new direction with that with Emma? Did you, did you have another idea in mind for her and it just morphed when Hickman came on board?

No, not at all. I, I was totally happy with the way that it panned out. And I have a screenshot of when, you know, I guess this was a couple years ago now, um, when Hickman was talking about that scene and bringing Emma in for that kind of thing before he had written it. And other people in the Slack were like, "Oh, she's the Black King of Hellfire Club now." Um, "She's taken Shaw out." And then Hickman's response was like, "What? When did that happen? What?" And then, um, I think it was Gerry answered. Or no, it was Jordan. X-Men: Black: Emma Frost. And then Hickman was like, "All right, let me read it." And then clearly, you know, just, uh, blown away by the fact that this, this continuity existed that kind of gets in the way of what he's doing. Um, but then I was hired on to be part of his wave too. So like, it all worked out for all of us in the end. Like, he, he was frustrated, uh, when he heard about that. And then somebody sent him the PDF to X-Men: Black: Emma Frost. And then like two weeks later, I was asked to write X-Factor. So that was his introduction to me. And he ended up, I think, really honoring her character in, in the way that he brought her in there.

When we get to that moment of Emma Frost agreeing to be a part of this, you know, uh, the way that she answers Magneto and Charles is, "All right, then. One more time for the children." And I just wept. I was so happy. And I thought it was amazing. Um, and I fully bought into Hickman with Emma in general because he thinks that she's the coolest X-Man that there is. I, I think Emma is absolutely wonderful. And Hickman writes her very beautifully. You have written her very beautifully as well. And I, that scene in, in House of X where she's here like to Magneto, "You an island again? You should know better." To Magneto. I thought that was brilliant. Just those little nuances like that. And Emma deserves to be elevated on the same level as Charles and Eric. I mean, Emma is there. Period. So I love seeing her there.

Yeah, absolutely. I totally agree. Well, just, just to change directions for like a sec. Um, so like, X-Factor. I, I love X-Factor. And it's a big fan favorite, particularly on like X Twitter. And especially among like LGBTQ+ X-Men fans. And it's like, how does it feel to have like created a book that's loved by like so many parts of the community?

It feels like I came close to holding up my end of the bargain. Um, I, as a creator, though, my approach to telling stories is, um, I, I think that anything with an audience has a responsibility to that audience. And the bigger the audience, the bigger your responsibility to them. And it is your responsibility, your ongoing responsibility, to construct a series of mirrors that show readers the world as it is, with themselves represented in it. Because to deny someone their likeness is to make them feel monstrous. It makes them feel like they don't belong in this world. And in X-Men stories, especially kind of this new era where we've made Krakoa an island open to all mutants, a safe haven, it was really important to me to kind of do justice to that, to like, really commit to, um, you know, giving as authentic a story as I could. And the way that the X-Factor cast happened wasn't because I was specifically looking for, you know, a very queer cast. It was because I was going off of the characters that were still left available for Wave 2 books because obviously, you know, a lot of the A-listers by that point were tied up in the books that had already started. So I had kind of a limited pool of characters to choose from. And my approach was to look for the people with the best, uh, investigative application of their mutant abilities. And, you know, they ended up, it ended up being a really queer cast after the fact, after I had, you know, looked at everyone through a forensic lens. And it's because there were a lot of queer characters left over. And because I'm not afraid to, you know, show nuances of queer friendship and queer community. That, I mean, the, the book does so much for representation. And that's why it just like resonates with so many of us.

And when, when you were, when, when Hickman came on board and you were, you were planning Wave 2, did you know you were gonna do X-Factor? Like, the title was gonna be X-Factor, given your history with, like, the original Peter David X-Factor?

Yeah, it was X-Factor from the beginning. Like, when I first spoke to Jordan about this, um, you know, the way that it was brought to me was, "How would you feel about writing X-Factor as part of, you know, Wave 2 of Hickman's X-line?" And my response was, you know, "Are you out of your [ __ ] mind?" But it is, it is kind of different in the way that, you know, for example, how Tini's Excalibur happened. Tini Howard and Marcus To working on Excalibur. The way that that came about. And each time I tell this story, I kind of mythologize everybody involved a little bit more. We're here for it. A little less realistic from where it started. But basically, in the first X-Men summit, um, Hickman presented his, you know, new, new direction and, and what was happening with the X-Men world to the room of Wave 1 writers and gave everybody the night to just kind of like digest it all and see if they came up with any ideas, that kind of thing. And Tini immediately locked on to this thinking of like, "What would mutant magic look like?" Because this is the first time they've had an opportunity to develop it. And when she brought in, you know, her like pages of notes the next day and ideas about like mutant synergy and magic and that kind of thing. After she finished, uh, talking about it, Hickman just kind of sat there for a second. And then looked at her and he was like, "You know what? This is right. This is Excalibur. Like, this is the Excalibur book." That's how that happened. Which I find so magical and lovely. But for me, it was like, I was approached to write the death book.

Is that your original vision of it? As like the death book?

No, the death book is the purpose that it serves in the overall line. And this is what Hickman said to me in my first X-Men summit, um, when I had like, you know, just met him about for the first time, like an hour prior to him pointing at me from across the conference room table and going, "You have the hardest book to write. You have the death book. And this is a deathless culture. So you, by far, are writing the most difficult book to tackle." Like, "Oh, gee, thanks." But it's, it's because there needed to be a death book. And, um, you know, something to like explore that outside of things, uh, and kind of round out the line as a whole in Krakoa and storytelling. So that was what I was presented with. And what I brought to it is, I also want it to be the resurrection book. I want it to be both death and life. So I asked if I could include the Five.

When you were thinking of it being a resurrection book, I'm trying to remember, was there early marketing copy about, you know, "This is the book to answer all your questions about resurrection"? Like, "What if a mutant feels more complete being resurrected with Magneto's power?" Or, you know, "Resurrected as in different sex?" Was, were those some original concepts that were being thrown around when you were thinking about resurrection?

Oh, sure. Absolutely. And, um, it is something that I did have to kind of course-correct in my earliest pitches. And, you know, I'm eternally grateful to Hickman for kind of mentoring me in how to look at storytelling from a bigger picture. Because my initial pitches that I brought in were super, uh, destructive because I was basically like stress-testing, um, Krakoa in world-building. You know, like my pitches represented, uh, what I thought the flaws in the entire system are. And, you know, like, "Here's where your world can break down." Basically. And he was like, "Okay, I see your point." Help me.

Wait, is there a specific example that you can share?

Um, I mean, I'm sure I just can't remember exactly what it was. Uh, I, oh, brothels. So I was thinking about what Krakoan brothels would look like. And the fact that there would be, you know, because Krakoa can grow meat on trees, so what's to stop Krakoa from growing, like, kind of sex dolls? And so I was thinking about, like, how messed up that would be. And it would be super, super messed up. And I'm glad that we ended up not going with that. Because instead of, you know, breaking the world, uh, like which would have happened for my initial pitches, Hickman was like, "Well, let's, let's go back to your concept of stress-testing it. Do this, but make it stronger. Fix it. Like, make it additive instead of subtractive." And that ended up being hugely beneficial to, like, that was a game-changer for me as a writer in general, not just with X-Factor, but kind of moving forward in everything that I do now. I look at ways to make it additive. Because even without knowing, um, you know, the, the word or the narrative concept of that, it was what I, it was my goal for, uh, X-Men: Black: Emma Frost. I wanted to do something additive. And now it's, it's just kind of my, my general approach. I, I want there to be more opportunities for storytelling. Because I think, especially in this medium, comics, which has an enormous continuity, it's important to think about, you know, leaving stuff for future writers to pick up on if they want to, not close a door, instead leave a series of open doors.

Well, it was, was like, there anything that like Marvel or the editorial staff said that was like explicitly like, "Off the table, but like, you can't do this"?

Trying to think. Um, I mean, no, because it's Jonathan Hickman. No door is ever like slammed shut. Because if he likes it, then he's gonna fight for it. And he is, like, sometimes we call him, um, Papa Godzilla. Because he's, I mean, we call him Papa Hickman, but sometimes we also call him like Papa Godzilla, just because he's a goliath, you know? He has so much influence. And he always uses it for good, for the, for the good of his creators and, and the people he works with. So, it, there was no, I would say, there's no hard no that that I encountered. It was more like the notes that I was given, um, were along the lines of like, "Here's, here's how to, um, play in the sandbox better with everything else that's going on." And that's hugely important, um, for, like, a shared landscape and world-building.

X-Factor, in terms of world-building, did a lot. And you toured so many places and you tackled a lot of characters. And, and you unearthed plots that people assumed were going to be forgotten about. I mean, and you, you brought back Rachel's powers. You, like, you understood Rachel's powers. So when you look back on everything you did with X-Factor, was there a particular arc or character that you, you enjoyed writing?

I, I could say that of of everybody on the cast, I, whenever I write a new X-Men character, and, you know, I'm there in my head and I, in theirs, it's this kind of strange fictional intimacy. And they mentally get sorted into a category in my head labeled, "These are my babies now." And when I finish a project and they go on to like their next, you know, adventure in somebody else's book, I have empty nest syndrome afterwards. Like, I miss them. And I want the best for them. So, I, and David Baldeon, my, um, X-Factor artist, and, and now one of my favorite people on the planet, co-conspirator, partner in crime, we absolutely fell in love with our cast. And they, they just became our babies. We, we were so excited to give them, you know, new stories moving forward. And, in the case of somebody like Eyeboy, to really like flesh him out and give him, you know, more storytelling that he's, he's not yet had the chance to do because he's relatively new.

Well, I mean, like, I'm, I'm like a fanatical Northstar fan. Northstar cosplayer. Paul had to talk me out of wearing the ears. Oh my god, you totally could have though. I would have loved it. I'm a Northstar addict. See, I, I told you. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Next time.

What was it like to take like a character like John Paul, who, you know, obviously in the Marvel Universe, you know, both in and out, was one of the first characters to come out, uh, so publicly? What was it like to take Northstar, sort of tackle him as like a leader from like that angle?

Okay, so, you know, when, if you guys have pets, you know, when you can hear your like dog chomping on something? Oh my god. Oh, wait. Yes, we just got out of a six-hour flight. We, we're in LA now. We just got in from New York. But look at his shirt. He was flying with. Oh my god. Adorable. What's his name? His name is Apollo, aka Spider-Pup. Oh, precious. So, you know, when you hear your dog chomping on something and it's like not chomping hours, so you're like, "What's in your mouth? What do you have?" And then your dog will like dart off, like run away from you. Um, in terms of like getting a hold of Northstar, I'm the dog. And Marvel's the pet owner. Like, I just immediately started sprinting with Northstar because I, I became obsessed with him during Extremists. Age of X-Man: Extremists. Because it was like heart-wrenching and traumatizing. And I'm not like using that word in kind of a lightened capacity. I mean, traumatizing to write, um, a queer character having to be forced back into the closet as a queer writer. It was so painful. So afterwards, of course, I'm like obsessed with Northstar and obsessed with his legacy, which is hugely important. Obsessed with Kyle, his husband. And I want to, you know, do as much as I can for as long as I can to push their story, uh, forward for as far as I can get it. And, um, it, he was the first character that I reached for coming out of, um, Extremists. And, you know, doing X-Factor next, the first two characters that I asked for were Northstar and Jubilee. Because I had written them in Extremists. But Jubilee was busy in Excalibur. And thankfully, Northstar was available, um, to be my team lead. And it just seemed like a perfect kind of alignment of storytelling, of everything that Northstar has been through, everything that has radicalized him, his entire history. And the fact that he's anti-government, anti-fascist, anti-cop, and a former domestic terrorist who supported, you know, uh, Quebec's, like, separatist movement. He, he's perfect for this kind of thing in Krakoa. Because he's suspicious of Charles. He's suspicious of the establishment. And he cares more about people than he cares about, um, following the rules. And I love that about him. I, I adore it. And I find it kind of like healing and cathartic to have somebody like him in a leadership role.

I'm speechless. That was beautiful. I, I have goosebumps, by the way, you were describing his, how you're that the approach to him and the kind of character he is. I almost started crying talking. I could hear him. I love him so much. And I rarely get to like talk about him at this kind of depth because he's prickly. He's an [ __ ]. He is not like a crowd favorite. And I, that's fair to say. It's, it's why we love him. He's a curmudgeon. And I was also excited about the opportunity to continue writing him because, you know, I feel like sometimes his rough edges get sanded away. And because, you know, maybe, and maybe I'm imagining this, but sometimes I feel like straight writers are afraid to portray him as prickly and kind of mean as he really is because they don't want to come across as being disrespectful to a gay man. Um, and I was so ready to write him as the [ __ ] that he is because it's, it's one of my favorite things about him. I find it so refreshing. And what I love most about, um, kind of cranky curmudgeons like Northstar is the fact that they are that way for the re, for a reason. People who are that prickly and curmudgeonly, the reason they're like that is because they have to be more defensive and on guard in order to protect just the softest heart, like radically compassionate, brutal heart possible. So when you get past those barriers, you know, that kind of defensive structure they've built around their heart, you're, you're in that fortress for life. You, you are one of this person's ride-or-dies for the rest of your life. And it's, you've earned their trust. Um, and I, I just think it's so magnificent. People like that, and characters like that.

I, I don't want to jump ahead because we still have a couple questions about X-Factor. But the scene in Trial of Magneto feels so, the way with him and Quicksilver feels so earned because of what you just said about the kind of character he is and, and how he has to be. But when you're finally in there with him, it's a ride-or-die. But like that moment where Quicksilver's like, "You know, she was my sister. She was ill." And all this stuff. And Northstar's like, "I get it." You know what I mean?

Yeah. And it's amazing. He does. Yeah. Because, and you didn't have to spell it out there for anyone. Like, people who read like, "Oh yeah, actually Northstar is the only person on this island who understands Quicksilver's pain right now." And that's physically the only person who can handle Quicksilver. You know, like, it was just kind of, um, you know, I use the word alignment, but like alchemy also in, in terms of their character histories, the similarities between them. I saw that moment from miles and miles away when I first started working on Trial of Magneto. That was that page was one of the moments that I immediately knew had to be shown somewhere in the first issue, just because I could not, couldn't not bypass that.

Before we get into Trial of Magneto, though, another character that's just done so well in X-Factor that everyone's loved is Polaris. And how did, how did you feel being the one writing Polaris and sort of making her, giving her a position in the Krakoan age? And then she's up for nomination at the Hellfire Gala for the Krakoan X-Men. Were you afraid of losing her?

I wasn't because at the time that I put her forward for, um, the X-Men nomination, I, you put her forward. Did everyone put a character? Oh, yeah. Well, okay, so here's how it happened. Um, everything we do in the X-Office is like a conversation and a collaboration when it comes to kind of moving around the big pieces on the board. So we had been working on this X-Men vote for, I don't know, maybe like a year and a half. We knew it was coming. Wow. So, finally, it came to the point where, uh, Gerry was asking us, like, "Okay, so who do we think would be..."

Good for the vote. Who do we want to put forward? And we started tossing out names. And I, at the time, had plans for a third arc that was mostly featuring, like, Northstar and Aurora and Rachel. So I was like, "Okay, you know, Polaris, she, she's gonna have some free time. Um, I've got a couple issues that heavily feature her, but then this other stuff, you know, we're gonna be off adventuring with these characters." So she's got some free time. And I put her forward.

And then, um, Jerry was like, "What? Are you sure?" And I'm like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course." And then Jordan was like, "Are you sure?" And I was like, "No, come on! Like, why are you gaslighting me? She'd be awesome!" And I was thinking in terms of, you know, how, how much Polaris fans would love to see her on the X-Men, and how, like, the timing is perfect because she's just had, like, her Eat Pray Love gap year, um, letting Northstar lead X-Factor, and she's had time to self-actualize and like, really figure out who she is for the first time. So she's ready for something like this. She's ready for more responsibility. She's kind of stable. She's, you know, looking out for herself and living her best single life. Like, it seemed perfect to me. I did not once think of Gifted stands. I forgot about the MCU completely. [Laughter] Forgot about, like, all of that side of things.

And, um, had a great time taking a heel turn on Twitter and antagonizing Gifted stands and like, you know, because they were just unhinged. They were in my, my mentions telling me like, "Bow down before your queen." And I'm like, "I will kill her just because I have no idea who you're talking to." Um, so I had a great time. It was the X-Men vote for all of the X writers was a fantastic time. We loved seeing people, people get involved with it and, um, you know, interact with the vote every day. It was like, uh, just waking up to new exciting developments in the X-Men vote because we didn't know if people were going to participate at all. We, we didn't know if people would enjoy it. Um, so that was how that happened.

But then I, of course, I also thought I would be getting her back, um, because X-Factor at the time, you know, had plans for a, like, third arc. So, uh, I, I wouldn't make the same choice again. But it's not because I wasn't right about her being a great fit for X-Men. It's because I don't like the way that, um, you know, non-comics readers were treating comics readers during the vote. It was really, you know, kind of upsetting to see, uh, the way that they were not even, you know, involved in what's happening. They thought it was just like a popularity contest and were antagonizing comics readers about it. Um, but, you know, being an X-Men creator and like having the platform that I do, it was an honor to take a heel turn and just antagonize the [ __ ] out of them in return because I can do something like that.

So, yeah, for me, one of the great things about X-Factor is getting to see some characters who really haven't interacted much in the past, uh, interact. And like seeing, like, for example, like Aurora and, uh, Akihiro, um, start to get into sort of like a relationship was like really interesting because those were like two characters I never would have like thought about, um, being together in the past. And like, how, like, how did you come up with that as like a pairing? It was one of those things that, like, the Northstar and Quicksilver moment, um, in Trial of Magneto, the Aurora Akihiro ship, I saw that from miles away because it was just one of those things where, um, I could see the similarities first and foremost, like their, their histories, their relationship histories, the way that they both have this kind of darker undercurrent to them. And, um, you know, the Aurora personality versus the Jean-Marie one, like, uh, especially, I would say, is more attuned to like violence and and chaos and action and that kind of thing. And then, of course, you know, we've got Dawkin who is just absolutely entranced by how Aurora keeps him guessing and, you know, keeps him on his toes and he can't quite figure her out because she's too multifaceted. So it, it keeps things interesting. And the traumas in their backstory are also kind of symmetrical.

Did you give any advice to Steve Orlando because he's going to be taking them to Marauders? Um, I, I wouldn't call it advice necessarily. It was more like when he brought his plans to the X-Office the first time, he already included Aurora and Dawkin. And I just gasped with delight. Like, "Oh my gosh, really?" It makes me feel happy, you know, because you'd think, like, he doesn't have to do that. He doesn't have to, uh, nobody has to continue this relationship. But the fact that it is happening, it just made me melt. Like, I was so happy about it. And we've since had, you know, just like long conversations about it and how excited I am about his plans. And he was excited to to tell me about it because he knows it's really good. He knows he's got some amazing stuff in the pipeline for Marauders. Um, so I wouldn't, I wouldn't say it was advice so much as like, we geeked the [ __ ] out together about these characters. And it was so lovely. It's like an interesting dynamic because like we were not professionals geek out about these characters and just must be incredible to actually like get paid to geek out about these characters. Oh, yeah. It's, it's very surreal.

Yeah, staying on X-Factor but sort of pivoting a little bit to like Trial of Magneto. Like, was, was that originally supposed to be an X-Factor story that just became something else? Yeah, it was something that I pitched as a part of my, uh, third arc for X-Factor because the third arc was basically going to be the theme of the entire thing was going to be family. So the plan was to have, um, you know, this, this stuff with House of M through like a murder investigation, uh, going on. But also Northstar and Aurora, we're gonna be exploring their origins because we know they're mutants and something else. Um, obviously they are mutant and something else. The ears, the, you know, shared powers, that kind of thing. It cannot all be explained by an X-gene. And it's, it's never really been textually canonized where, where they, they get all of these attributes. So we're going to be exploring that. And we're also going to be, you know, exploring a lot of stuff with, uh, Rachel and having her kind of co-identity being questioned because it's like, "Hey, she's from a different timeline. Why does she have access to resurrection services? But like, Bloodstorm doesn't?" And, you know, that kind of thing.

But then the Trial of Magneto's story ended up being kind of such a popular pitch that, uh, immediately it was like, "Okay, wait, we have to kind of clear the runway and then focus on this because we love this." And it became a much, much bigger story than what I had pitched. And it was, I was super intimidated because this is no small undertaking. The Scarlet Witch and her relationship with mutants, that's, that's huge. That is a very, very, very big thing. So I understand, you know, why, why it became necessary to focus everything on on that and make it, you know, a much bigger deal than, like, background fodder in X-Factor. At any point in the editorial process of creating Trial of Magneto and the story with the with the Scarlet Witch being murdered, was the idea of tackling her mutant identity, going short back to it, or exploring it, did that ever come up when you were drafting the story? Oh, of course, of course. Because, um, you know, it's, it's such a huge part of her origin story. And she's still, even not as a mutant, um, being who she is, her identity is kind of indelibly tied to mutants, um, to, to mutant identity, just on the basis of events. Um, so of course it came up. And and I asked about it. Um, I can, what, okay, what can I say? I just don't want to get anybody's hopes up. Like, I, I asked. I, I was interested. Um, but because of kind of other circumstances, uh, I would say outside of the MCU, yeah. Um, you know, there's like a show and stuff. I, I had to make sure that I wasn't going against, like, existing plans, if that makes sense. Um, so, so yeah.

Speaking of the show, what did you think of WandaVision? Yes, give us some of that tea. Okay, so there was definitely a moment in, like, I'd say maybe the second episode or the first episode where they're sitting at the dinner table and, um, you know, they've just like moved to this town and Vision has started a new job and they've got Vision's boss over for dinner. And there's a moment when stuff starts to kind of unravel there and we see beyond the surface of what's going on. That moment took my breath away. I got chills. It was perfect. Um, I, I, I thought the rest of it was overhyped. Um, I, from the way that people were talking about it online, I was expecting, you know, something totally different. Yeah, you weren't expecting Evan Peters to be Ralph Bohner. See, that part I liked. That part was irreverent and silly. That it kind of, you know, I, I had been getting bored. I like, I hadn't been as invested. But then, you know, Evan Peters showed up and I was like, "Wait, what the [ __ ]?"

Um, so how would you sum up your, your, your perspective on the Magneto and Wanda relationship? Like, what do you think drives that relationship? Um, I mean, it's, it's a father-daughter relationship. They, uh, have been through a lot. And I think that Magneto is a magnificent man who struggles to kind of open up and show his emotional side, to show warmth and that kind of thing because it comes from PTSD and trauma and, uh, you know, from being radicalized at a young age. He doesn't know how to, uh, be like a warm fatherly figure. He knows how to be paternal. He knows how to be a leader. He doesn't know how to be a dad.

How did you come up with sort of, you know, the sort of the shock of Wanda being murdered? Like, was, well, at the time that I pitched it, I was writing the Death Book. So it seemed kind of natural. Fair. That's that's weird. I don't think that I would have, um, pitched it that way if, if, you know, I wasn't writing the murder investigation book. Like, I, I'm not sure I would have made the same choice in a different context. But that said, I, I think that the way that everything wraps up in Trial of Magneto issue five, I would not change that for anything. I am very pleased with, um, how far we will, we were able to get with this story that started with her murder.

What can we expect from Trial of Magneto in the next, uh, couple issues? Uh, yeah, I mean, to expand on it and going back to what I was saying about everything I've learned from Jonathan Hickman about additive storytelling, the whole goal with Trial of Magneto, my goal as a writer is, I wanted to build an empathy engine. I wanted to repair a lot of the contempt between Wanda and between mutants and, you know, between the larger House of M. Because like House of M as an event is just, you know, seminal storytelling. There, there will never be another story like that. And I'm not trying to play karaoke by emulating past stories. I want to do something additive that opens doors to move forward for new kinds of stories. So that was my approach and I'm really happy with how it turned out. I knew it was going to be a lot, but I was totally unprepared for how it would start before the issues even started coming out. When they were just like showing cover images and then I was getting, you know, Wanda stands in, like MCU Wanda stands in my mentions, telling me to go to hell and die and that kind of stuff. And I was like, "Okay, you know, I didn't draw this." Right. We know how savage the Wanda MCU stands can be. It's, there, there's definitely a lot of passion there. Scott is not the biggest Wanda fan, so he may sometimes get it. Uh, I mean, half of us just to provoke the, the MCU Wanda fans. And that is like, it's like a hornet's nest. Oh, yeah. Yeah. [Laughter]

Leah, we have three really quick listener questions for you. Of course. And I'm going to share my screen. Hey, Leah and friends. It's Ryan Panagos, aka Agent M from This Week in Marvel, also like Marvel Entertainment. They do things there. Anyway, uh, Leah, my question for you is, if you could see Lila Cheney go back on tour, maybe like the Krakow for All tour, and it was her crew, her band, there was all mutants, who would join Lila Cheney on tour? I like talking about Lila Cheney, so I want to hear you talk about Lila Cheney. I love that question, first of all. Uh, love Ryan, he's fantastic. Um, and I'm so delighted that this is what he asked me. I, uh, first of all, if Lila Cheney goes on tour again, I want it to be in space. I want there to be a battle of the bands in space. I want alien rock stars. Um, and, uh, as far as who her band bandmates would be, I'm obviously going to be super biased and bring up this band that I showed in X-Factor when they were liberating the Mojoverse from the constraints of its like live streaming, uh, indentured servitude, basically. So that was Dazzler and DJ and, uh, not Siren yet because there was this whole thing about the Mojo. Um, but also I would add Siren to this lineup now. Yes, that is fantastic. That is a fantastic answer.

Hi Leah, I know you said that you were approaching the Trial of Magneto as an empathy engine for Wanda Maximoff. And I was wondering if you could tell us what you see in the future for Wanda, what you would like to do with her, um, if there's a particular X book that you think she has a really good affinity with, or just where she fits in the future in your mind. And that question came from Geeky JP, who is an insanely big Wanda stand. So that is a great question. Uh, first of all, I love that question. I cannot be specific about my answer just because it would ruin my chances of actually getting to tell the story that I would love to tell with her future. Um, but having said that, I see her as fully capable of of leadership and kind of grander adventures beyond the mortal coil, beyond physical dimensions. I think that she's capable of anything. I think she's magnificent. Um, and she is coming to a place in Trial of Magneto where she's got a really good handle on her powers and she's understanding, um, you know, how, you know, her chaos magic kind of operates and how primordial and powerful it is. Um, and I would love to see her utilizing that in just kind of a variety of adventures across in many different circumstances. Well, we, we, we cannot wait to see what the future holds for Miss Miss Wanda Maximoff.

And this is Gray from Aaron and Halar with a question for Leah Williams. I wanted to know what would Leah Williams do with X-Factor if she was going to continue writing the book? So I've already talked a little bit on, um, about what I would have done in an X-Factor with the third arc. I think what I haven't said is, um, a Polaris story that I really wanted to tell, which is basically X-Factor is tasked to, um, find a missing mutant because it's not just, um, you know, death and murder that they're investigating. They also investigate missing persons cases, missing mutant cases. If somebody, uh, goes too long without a Cerebro backup, that's when it gets flagged for, um, first S.A.G.E. and then X-Factor's attention. So it was going to start with a missing person's case and they end up finding this person in, like, a super max prison specifically devoted to holding mutants in custody and beyond the reach of Cerebro backups. And what I wanted to do was, um, have this moment where they're like, kind of conspiring as a team about how to get into the prison. And we're, we're in a public place near the prison, kind of like on the outskirts of where it is in in town. And Prodigy starts concocting this really elaborate scheme, you know, like, really convoluted, almost. And then we do this, and then we do this, and then we do this. And then Lauren is just like, "Okay, stop, stop." And then she punches a cop and gets arrested and taken to the super max prison because she's a mutant. And, uh, because she's Lorna, she kind of stages a one-woman prison breakout and is, you know, just magnificent in this kind of steel and concrete structure that she can crack open like an egg. Oh my god, that sounds amazing. I am so sorry that we didn't get a chance to see that. I, I got goosebumps when you were saying that.

Mutants are being held in this compound beyond the reach of Cerebro. And I love the idea. Is that canon yet though? That, that if there, if a mutant goes too long without a backup, the S.A.G.E. flags it? It was actually just kind of like a quick, uh, moment at the end of X-Factor issue one. So, you know, it, it was like an info dump thing that I needed to establish. So we didn't get to explore it for very long. But remember, Sage and Forge are like setting up the Fleet Seeds and like all of this new technology for X-Factor. Then they talk about kind of the missing person system. Um, and what I needed to accomplish there was how far out of range a mutant would have to be in order for Cerebro not to be able to reach them. And so the answer is like something specifically constructed to avoid Cerebro backups, like the, you know, super max prison designed for mutants, or, um, a no-place like what, uh, Moira's in, or, uh, you know, there, there's probably a cosmic limit that we haven't found yet, or a dimensional limit we haven't found yet. Like Otherworld, if you, if you die in Otherworld, you come back scrambled. So I needed to establish that off the bat. But it was like so quick.

Well, Leah Williams, you've been so generous with your time. Thank you so much. We know where to find you. People listening know where to find you. But officially, where can people find you on the interwebs? So on Twitter, I am at my monsters chic, chic. On Instagram, I am hand axe with an E. And on TikTok, I'm X-Men Comics because I made this TikTok before I was writing X-Men comics and I'm a piece of [ __ ] who refuses to surrender to my boss. Now. All right, familia, that's our episode. Rate and review this podcast if you enjoyed it. Please smash that like button and make sure to come back. And when you do come back, make sure you wear your official Power of X-Men Age of Apocalypse t-shirt by Art of Lucas. Links are out there. You get off Redbubble. Just support it. Support the pod. Support a great artist. And we will see you soon. See you next week. And as always, I'm Dave Spring. And you can find me at Power of X-Men on Instagram. And I am Mr. Scott Free. And you can either find me making a fool of myself in Hell's Kitchen or on Instagram and Twitter at, uh, Mr. Scott Free. [Music]