Transcription
The first time I wrote a rhyme that I thought I could do it was, "I'm the king of hip hop renewed like the Reebok, the key in the lock with words so provocative, as long as I live I'll be." When I caught that pocket, I was like, "Oh, I got this."
[music] [music]
My early years, I had a big green notebook. My mommy got me this notebook, and I would just write. You'd be sideways and slant it and just like a a mess. And I was writing really small 'cause I didn't want anybody to read what I was writing. In my teenage years, I got I moved further away from the house. And as I moved further away from the house, it was hard to like hold these things. I had to retain these thoughts. I just I didn't write anymore in that little green notebook. I wish I had it, man. I'm really, really, I didn't I never kept up with things.
[music]
That that's a whole different experience. I'll tell you about that. The first time I made a demo, Jazz and Big Daddy Kane in Brooklyn were the two guys at that moment, and the connector was Fresh Gordon. You know Fresh Gordon?
I don't know 'cause I've read it, I've read about him. Oh, okay. Fresh Gordon was a super connect. Everyone used to be in his house. Fresh Gordon actually really, I believe, did the "Push It" beat and sold it for like $5,000. That's the that's the the folklore. I don't know if it's true. But but you go to Fresh Gordon's house, and Masta Ace, D, be there, Pepa, and then he had like a like all the computer equipment. His house was beautiful, incredible, incredible. So anyway, in that house, the two guys are going to meet up. They was going to make a, what do you call it, a mixtape now? And everyone was talking about, you know, "All right, yeah, who's that kid?" And so Kane was like, "I want to work with work with you," and I made a demo with Kane. And it was the first time I was like, "Oh, oh, I can make songs." And I was in I played for my uncle, he's like, "Man, get that [ __ ] out of here." I was like, "I'm going to be better than LL Cool J." He's like, "Get the [ __ ] out of here." But my uncle loved me. He just he was protecting me in that moment the way he could 'cause I was dreaming too big for him. He was like, "Let me let me let you down. It don't happen like that in life."
[music]
After like, so '96, all the material that's on *Reasonable Doubt* was pretty much already like in my head. The thing about that album is the freedom in it and how naive I was. I didn't know anything about the music business. I wasn't trying to make the greatest song or, you know, "Streets Is Watching" the third verse is like 68 bars. It's not like 16 structured bars that I know is like be palatable for the audience.
[music] [singing]
What I was thinking during *Reasonable Doubt* was, "When my guys hear this, it's going to be like, they're going to their minds going to be blown 'cause we just left Vegas and this tells the story about the whole trip. They're going to go crazy. This story that we just completed and now we're back home, they hand on wax." That was it. I was trying to make music for guys who were in the street and living just like us to have like a soundtrack to, you know, the emotions that we were dealing with, not just like the highs, not the Lexuses and things that was part of it, yes. Like that's the eye candy, the Lexuses with the TV sets, and then but the interior feelings and emotions was really what I was trying to accomplish as a writer. Like, "How do I go even deeper to like, I'm going to tell you what you were thinking when you were doing it." 'Cause it was it was exactly what I was thinking. I know exactly how you felt in that moment when you felt that paranoia or that exhilaration, whatever it was.
[music]
Most times, I come up with the flow first. You may have heard like people like, "He does his Rain Man in the studio," 'cause I'm like, I'm trying to work out the pockets, and then I'll fill it with words. What Biggie had was a a jazz pocket that we didn't really know we was listening to until later on. One of his neighbors was this like jazz musician who would take him to like shows and things like that. We knew Rakim was was, you know, come from a jazz background, right? So we understood the, "I got to tell every lyrical now, I'm going to done da na na na na." So he's he's mimicking a horn. But Biggie was so unorthodox that it was like, "Jesus."
[music]
These are, see, that's that's just jazz, you know, improv what he was doing. But I don't come from a like a musical family, like, you know, no instruments, but it was just so much music in the house that it just was an innate in me to think musically as well as I thought lyrically. Even the first album, when I didn't know what I was doing, I listened to those, some of those those pockets, and they all like melodic.
[music and singing]
Yeah, collaboration is important to me 'cause I, again, it's almost like another ingredient. And let's see how we can create a song that is authentic to all of us. The artist wants the other person to have a great performance 'cause you want a great record. You don't want to you don't want to have a performance where you just, you know, your verse is just obliterating someone, and then, you know, no one wants to hear that verse. That's not good for the song itself. I'm a fan of songwriting, so I want to know that the the outcome. I'm curious to see how, you know, how this going to turn out. You know, "What is Pimp C going to say on this beat?" You know, he didn't like that beat in the beginning. It was just like, "Hey, Jig, man. Man, that's thing too fruity, man." He thought he was making like the biggest commercial like sellout record, and he took some convincing. He still did the song. We actually was really cool once we met each other. I think he had eight bars, I'm not sure, maybe 12. I think he had 12 bars. 12-bar verse that was like one of the most memorable verses on a song 'cause we, me and Bun, is like, it's the big, big thing. We we just did a triplet flow to it. But he did the opposite. He wouldn't even he he cut it in like, I think, quarter note, whatever he cut it like small.
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And I was like, "What is he doing?" And then by the like fourth bar, I was like, "Oh my god. It's just beautiful." Like on "Brooklyn's Finest," I didn't get to hear that till maybe a month later. So I did all those little parts, "I'm saying, what's your name? Who shot you?" Then Biggie filled those in. And when he was like, "In 'Face Off,' Twin, she probably had two pops." And I was just like, "Oh my god, it's such a good line. It's just so good." And it was just so he was one of those ones who ain't run from like controversy whether it made him look bad or not. Like, you know, most people's ego wouldn't allow them to say that. And it was like one of them the endearing qualities that he had as a as a writer. You know, "black and ugly as ever." And then the word, "one word" was so powerful. "However black and ugly as ever, however," anything he said after that was going to be amazing. Those are the little tricks as a writer that, you know, that you you everyone's trying to accomplish. I don't I can't say everyone. That's the that I'm trying to accomplish like when I'm writing is like just a word that just changes the framing of the thought in a powerful way in in the shortest amount of time. 'Cause that's hard to do. Like if you got unlimited, you know, God did verses, I'm I'm going to hit on something because I'm writing through so many pockets. I'm going to hit on a a bunch of things. But if I got eight bars, you know, if you think about like "Fronting," like that was a very condensed, hard verse to write. You got eight bars to convey your thoughts and get out of there.
[singing and music]
You know, those those is when you got to sit down and really just like, you know, make sure every measure counts. That's a challenge for the pen like when you're creating for someone else, and especially people that you respect. You know, Dr. Dre, I grew up obviously a fan of him and Snoop. You know, this is Dr. Dre coming off, you know, leaving Death Row. I know where he was trying to go 'cause I've been there a couple times with like *Kingdom Come* and those things. So he's trying to make, you know, he's like, "I'm I'm I'm leaving this place and I want to mature." So for me, it was just natural to like get into his psyche. Like, "What is what would he be thinking right there? What would I be thinking?" I would be thinking, "I have to remind people that I'm Dr. Dre." That's where "Still D.R.E." come, "Still."
[music]
It's like a challenge for you as as a creator. For me, that's where I really thrive, like when I'm challenged to like do a thing to make a word mean more. You use a triple entendre or quadruple entendre. That's when I I feel like I'm in my best. You know, you can pin yourself in the corner and say, "I'm going to write a song about, you know, alcohol." And I'm going to just like find clever a lyrical exercise is a bad example. So now I'm just going to take all these references, you know, about bars and sit-ups and chin-ups and things, and I'm going to make it make sense, and it can't be corny.
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Almost like a cooking show. These are the ingredients I got to work with. I'm making this type of meal, and I have these sort of things, and I that's it. You take one of your arms and you tie it behind your back. That's a that's a a challenge, but it's a challenge as a writer that you you you relish and you want. *4:44* was, I mean, it was the toughest thing I had to write. And not be not not not lyrically, not the greatest metaphors I've ever created, but like the vulnerability and the honesty and transparency, that's hard. That's a difficult thing. But to do it for the entire album and to sit in that and like talk about real subjects and real talk about, you know, how your kids are going to feel, and, you know, at some point you going to have to sit down and speak to them, and all these different topics, that was the most difficult album that I had to write. [ __ ] in Paris, um, I think that, um, as a writer, those are like some of my best moments, the finest moments for me, most rewarding. I won't say best. My most rewarding moments is to make something that people just dance into having a good time, but the theme of it is just like, "Wow, you know."
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It still has the connotation of racism in it, how people look at you, and we know about the French relationship with Africa and the money and blah blah blah. It's a it's a it's a lot of deep things that's happening at one time. You mentioned like "The Story of O.J." is like this idea that once you've attained the success, you're a different person. Like you walk in as a different person. And I believe like O.J. got to a point where he thought he was bigger than race. And he was like, "No, I'm not black, I'm O.J." And it was like, "Okay." Right? 'Cause the moment you're not O.J., we going to see how that ends. Right? Whereas, you know, myself, I show up as myself. And writing that in the song is just like, there's a responsibility that I have, and I think everyone has this, come from certain places where we come from that just comes with it. That's just the responsibility you carry. Like when you walk in the room, you ain't walking in just just a solo, you you you representing the history of what's been done in this country. And it don't have to be all loud. You know, it's like every second of the day, but it's there. It's like air. The thing about Bey is, she's actually an underrated songwriter. She really can write songs, but she does so much that I think what she gravitates towards is a producer. I think she I think she I think she likes songwriting. I've never asked this question. I'm going I'm going to ask her this question, but I think she likes songwriting, she loves producing. Because the things she does is unbelievable. It's like she'll hear a snare from a song that maybe we heard once a year ago where she'll just pull a snare from somewhere, or like take this song and mix it with this song, and then put that bridge over here, or, you know, have a completely different song on a completely different beat and make it work for the whole other project. You know, I'm watching that like, "Wow, inspired by, you know, what she's doing." And I never really thought about that, but I'm almost sure like she likes songwriting, she loves producing. Yeah. Remember, hip-hop was about the gift of discovery. That was it. When you went to school, you couldn't have the person that it was already good. You have to say, "Yo, I got the new tape of somebody you never heard of, and it's and it and it actually told the story of you." That's why hip-hop became so big because everyone wanted to feel those feelings. I tell people all the time, "Never fight against the future." Future's coming. Artists, they were trying to recreate something that was already done, but they're not connected to it like that. They're not living it and breathing it. They were fighting against gravity as opposed to telling their story. We needed that other side. We needed to hear about what happens when you have four successful albums. What happens? What does that feeling like? How do you make the next one? How did you get in the studio? How are your kids? What like what how do you interact with them as this hip-hop dad? But if you trying to make young music and you're not, you know, you're not young, it's going to be inauthentic, and people could feel it. You could smell it. So the best thing anyone can do like going through through music is to tell a story and and and just keep creating from that space. I love what the Clipse are doing right now and how it's authentic to them, and they're telling the story about their mom and dad who just passed away, and how deep that is with John Legend singing on the chorus, and like, you know, everything that they've been through is an authentic display of piece of classic material that it could have came out '96 or come out 2026. It still feels the same because it's real and it's authentic to who they are.
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After *The Black Album*, it was more so like, "What do I want to say and what do I have to say?" And what's the challenge in the writing? Success hasn't changed my approach to making music. I've always felt like my aspirations were ahead of um where I was currently. Even with all the success, I'm still like, "No, no, no, no. This is where we belong. This is our place." I'm just 2 years ago, it was like fighting with the NFL to put Dr. Dre on. Not fighting, but like convincing. It's like, "Y'all 30 years too late." Like this supposed to been happened. That emotion was from the first album to now. That that that that fight to say, "We're here. This is what we're about. And we going to we going to get there, and this is what we deserve." Like I said, those are the ingredients that go in the song. Whether it be about, you know, a big yacht or the Lexus, bragging about money, those are just props. Those That's not the engine. That's not the emotion that my music is running on. But once you get into the interior of the song, what you're hearing is the same thing you you going to hear from, you know, someone who has integrity, morality, questions about religion, questions about who you are as a man, relationships, your legacy, your children, the fears that they're going to have, you know, um whatever karmic debt that you you put out there and and how, you know, that's going to affect your family. Those are the real themes. My locations have changed. But who I am and as a person and what I believe in, none of that's changed. Things I believed to be true maybe young, I don't believe so much. You know, a lot of street codes and things like that may have messed with our emotional intelligence. You know, "money over hoes," that's a terrible concept. It sound good. So yeah, some of those things change, but the the foundation of the struggle, you know, our fight to be recognized in a country that doesn't uh see us in that light, those themes and emotions I still try to convey them.
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