Did Jesus Exist? Let's Discuss!

be able to come up. And by the way, you should be able to actually like watch this back if you're like, "Hey, you know, did he say something or did I say something or whatever?"

>> Tight. Tight.

But anyways, we're live on YouTube. We got OGK Fine Boy who's up here. And what was your question?

>> It was um, "Did Abraham Lincoln exist?"

Abraham Lincoln? Yes.

>> How, how do we know he existed though?

We have pictures of him and his descendants.

>> So, we don't have pictures of Jesus and his descendants. What? His um...

Do you think Jesus had children?

>> No, not his descendants, but like his uh...

Well, that's what we have for Abraham Lincoln is we have descendants, like literal DNA descendants where we're able to actually trace the DNA back to a common ancestor.

And that ancestor would be Abraham Lincoln.

Uh, also, we have pictures of him. We did not have cameras at the time of Jesus, and we also don't have him with any like DNA descendants. So those are two reasons why we can say that Abraham Lincoln existed, but not Jesus.

So you're saying because we have pictures, because they had pictures of Abraham Lincoln?

>> Yeah. I mean, you asked me about Abraham Lincoln and I answered how we know he existed. Yeah.

So I feel like, I kind of feel like Jesus existed. I mean, it's just that people don't believe that like his, the miracles that he performed was, you know, actually accurate. But I believe that he existed.

>> Okay. So what evidence convinced you that he existed 2,000 years ago?

Um, how science backed it up? Like how science back up the Bible? Like from, from how they found chariots under the Red Sea. Um, Mount Sinai. Um...

There's wheels that you can find in the middle of the Mississippi River. That doesn't mean that cars drove across it.

>> Chariots like, like...

No, I understand.

>> The Red Sea. I'm talking about like, like...

So, not only did the grandson of the person who, or I think it was the son, actually of the person who actually found those things, which is Ron Wyatt, or claimed to have found those things in the '90s or late '80s, say that Ron Wyatt planted those things. But on top of that, the spokes themselves do not match up with what we have from that time period of what Egyptian wheels actually looked like. And again, I want to reiterate, just because you find wheels in like a, a body of water does not mean that there was a chariot or something like that that went through it. One wheel, which is pictured, does not suddenly mean that there was a bunch of chariots chasing after Israelites through the Red Sea. That doesn't make any sense. You can find tires in the Mississippi River. That doesn't mean that there were cars that went through them.

I'm not saying it was just more than just that though. I mean...

>> There's only one picture of a wheel and that wheel doesn't even match up with the spokes and everything like that from like what we have from hieroglyphics from that time of wheels. So, no, one wheel does not, one wheel that doesn't even match up at that time period did not suddenly mean that a bunch of chariots during that time period went through the water or went through the land there whenever the water was split. That's not a, it's not a thing. Also, the person who claimed it was said to have planted the, the wheel. On top of that, he was debunked for everything else that he said. So, it doesn't really make a lot of sense that this would be the one thing that he got.

Yeah, cuz, yeah, I was saying it was more than one wheel. It was a whole, a chariot. Not much like a whole chariot. It was more than just that. Hold on.

>> You're talking about Ron Wyatt. Listen, you're talking about Ron Wyatt and it's just a picture of one wheel. It is not a picture of an entire chariot. That's not true. Hold on. I'm sorry. Can I, you know, do more research? Oh, another thing. Oh, I want to say Mount Sinai. Can you even explain that to like, how they explain how, um, Moses when he went to go talk to, uh, God on the mountain? And I'm sorry. Hold on. I got... Can you sit down, please? Please, ma'am. Yeah. Mount Sinai. What else? And they did find the, um, the DNA of Jesus is that it was missing a Y chromosome.

>> Yeah. No. What lab did he take it to?

>> It was, uh, hold on. It was...

He never says. Again, you're all three of these claims, uh, Red Sea, blood of Jesus being tested in a lab, and Mount Sinai. This is all from Ron Wyatt. Again, he's actually a nurse anesthesiologist. He's not a, he's not a, he, he, he's not a scientist or an archaeologist at all. He just kind of went over to the Middle East and started claiming he found a whole bunch of [expletive]. Like, I'm not even kidding. He's been...

>> Wait, what's his name again?

>> Ron Wyatt.

>> Ron Wyatt. How, how do you spell...

>> The last name is W Y A T T. He died in about '98 or '99. Like, he, he's been debunked. Like, literally all of his claims are debunked.

>> That's, I never heard of this guy.

>> That's the guy who you're, you're claiming and talking.

>> Name Ron White of discovering. Hold on. Okay, hold on.

>> Like all three of your claims have been specifically from one guy and I just told you the name of the guy.

>> Ron White. I ain't gonna lie, they like some [expletive]. But, um, yeah, there's certain [expletive] that's science, science proof. And I'm like, really big on, I love science. I'm really big on science. And I was thinking, I was like, damn.

If you're really big on science, you should not be anywhere close to Ron Wyatt. Ron Wyatt in no way, shape, or form is a...

>> That's what I'm saying. I don't even like when you bring him up.

>> Yeah. That's like when you bring them up. Like, who the [expletive] is Ron Wyatt?

>> Yeah. Well, it's because you've been told this by people who didn't tell you their source because they know that if they told you their source, you'd look into it and you'd see that it's [expletive].

Like, you've just heard it being talked about. You probably saw maybe a YouTube or TikTok video or something like that saying, "Oh, this is the stuff that we found in the Red Sea or we found in Sinai or we found Jesus's blood." You know, that kind of thing. But they never gave their source for it. Again, I, I have no problem with you wanting to scientifically fact-check the Bible. In no way, shape, or form do I have a problem for that. In fact, please do. You will find that it doesn't line up with actual science. But nevertheless, because it's like mythology. But nevertheless, these claims that you hear on these things, always be sure to ask, where did you get that? Like, where did this person hear that? It all three of those things came back from one Wyatt. You probably heard those claims all from, I'd say probably the same video. Either that or the same channel or something like that, or channels that are very similar to each other because it's all from one source. It's Ron Wyatt. And again, he's debunked like very easily.

>> Yeah, cuz I look at it like, who the, yeah, I'm like, Ron Wyatt. But other videos and stuff is like from YouTube and stuff like, uh, like from science and everything like, uh, who else? Who I follow on YouTube? But Ron Wyatt. Yeah, I don't know who the [expletive] Ron Wyatt is until you just told me. He's just the source of all those crazy claims and so people just repeat them and it kind of sounds like it's their own sort of kind of, but it's really just them pulling from Ron Wyatt stuff there. He never mentions, he says what he says is that he went into the Garden Tomb, which is one of three tombs in Jerusalem that say that they're Jesus's, where Jesus was actually laid. Uh, there's no evidence of that whatsoever. But he went into, uh, the Garden Tomb, which is the last one of these three to be found. He goes in, I believe, he goes in and then he ends up, um, he digs a hole, like a shaft into, uh, uh, like under the, under the, or behind the tomb.

And the people that own the tomb, the Garden Tomb, uh, um, association, they allowed for him to do this and they were there, like staff members were there, uh, while he was digging into this excavated shaft there. So what he ended up doing was he said he went into the shaft and found the Ark of the Covenant, took pictures, and every time it came back, the pictures came out, they came out blurry because God was protecting it. And then he said that he looked above the Ark of the Covenant and found some blood and was able to like scrape up that blood, took it to a lab, and that's when he said...

>> Wait, wait, wait, wait. What? Wait, hold on. I'm sorry. That, cuz I'm sorry, that do sound [expletive]. But ain't the Ark of the Covenant like the, wasn't this like, like in the Bible that it's like you couldn't go near it or the...

If you want to continue the conversation, you got to apologize for saying the rare, man.

>> I'm sorry. Um...

You really got to cut that out, man. Like, just say ridiculous instead. Like, it means the same thing and it's kind of close, but just cut that out of your vocabulary.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry. Ridiculous. It means ridiculous. Um, it was like the Ark of the Covenant, wasn't it? Like, they couldn't go near it or couldn't see it or touch it or something like that.

>> So, how...

Well, yeah, that's the concept. So, he's saying that when he takes pictures, they come out blurry because God's protecting it or something. I don't know. The point is, the point is he claims that he found this blood, took it to a lab, and they tested it, and then it has like the, the chromosomes and everything like that that you were talking about, but he never says what lab he takes it to. And no lab has ever said, "Oh, we're the lab he brought it to."

>> That's diabolical.

>> Like, he just kind of says some [expletive]. And so later on, people repeat that thing because it sounds really cool and it sounds sort of kind of scientific.

And I mean, to the point to where somebody who's interested in science like yourself would hear that, go, "Wow, that's good scientific evidence." I mean, it kind of would be, maybe, maybe I don't know. It sounds scientific, but like, again, it didn't happen. So there's no, like, if we knew what lab it was, they'd keep it on file or something like that. I mean, it was just in '90, in the '90s or so. Uh, the, the Garden Tomb Association, if you go there right now to the Garden Tomb, the place that Protestants believe Jesus was buried, if you go there and say, "Hey, was Ron Wyatt here? Did he find the Ark of the Covenant? Did he find the blood?" They will hand you something in writing that says that we totally refute every single claim that he has made because he didn't find, to our knowledge, he didn't find anything. And we were here, uh, with him the entire time.

>> That's crazy. Like, it's just some claim from some crazy guy, uh, that just, that just a lot of people heard and thought it was scientific, thought it was good evidence, and so they've repeated it. [clears throat] Until now.

>> But that's just from one guy who never gave us any evidence of what he said.

>> I'm looking at him now and I'm like, damn, this is, this was like in the '90s. This is old as hell.

Well, I mean, just because it was in the '90s doesn't necessarily mean it's that bad.

>> It's old as hell. I mean, I don't know what's going on there, but like, but still, it's, it's just the fact that it was back then and we still don't have any evidence of it. Like, no lab for the last like 30 years has ever come out and said, "Hey, we're the lab that tested Jesus's blood. We're the, we're the lab that confirmed that Jesus was or this blood was X, Y, and Z." That would be really, really good.

>> Yeah, I get you. Like, yeah, they're not backing up his claim.

>> Okay. I feel like, yeah.

>> If he just gave us the name of it, that would be good. But he never does. He just says, "I took it to a lab."

Thank you, my guy. I, I really, yeah, I already. I'm sitting here looking at this guy like, they debunked him. A lot of people debunked him. Yeah, it's, it's again, if it sounds, honestly, if it, if it sounds too good to be true, it, it probably is. Realizing that the, the, the Bible, both the Old Testament and the New Testament, is mythology should tell you that if we find any scientific proof of really anything in the Bible, like especially some of the more miraculous claims or the more miraculous stories,

scientific proof that doesn't even really make a lot of sense. Like, you should automatically, a red flag should go up and be like, "Let me take a look at this. Let me actually dive into this." Because the whole blood claim is the idea that, um, Jesus was born of a virgin. All right. So, scient, as soon as somebody says, "We have scientific evidence of this," you should go, "From where?"

Um, whenever you hear about Mount Sinai, the claim is that like God came down in a pillar of fire or not a pillar of fire, but like a cloud of fire and smoke and everything around the top of Mount Sinai. So that's a miraculous claim. You should immediately think, "Okay, we should have really good evidence of this," and we don't. It comes from the same guy. Uh, for the, the parting of the Red Sea, we should have really good evidence of that, not just like one wheel. And we don't. And it comes from that one guy. So my advice to you, if you're into science, which it sounds like you are, whenever you hear something someone say, "We have scientific evidence for a miraculous thing in the Bible, something supernatural," immediately you should go, "Let me see the proof, please." Like, "Let me actually see the source." Like, if, if someone said we had like scientific evidence for like something mundane like, uh, the existence of Paul or something like that,

like that would, okay, that seems reasonable. Just a guy existing or something like that. Like, yeah, now I'm obviously, I'm saying that Paul didn't exist, but if you heard somebody say, "We have scientific evidence for it, the existence of a person," okay, that's fine. I mean, obviously you should look into it. Any kind of claim you should dive into. But it doesn't sound crazy. But what sounds crazy is, "We have scientific evidence of somebody being born of a virgin 2,000 years ago." What? Where did that come from?

>> They say, wait, wait. Scientific evidence of someone being born 2,000 years ago?

>> No, scientific evidence of somebody being born of a virgin 2,000 years ago. That's what they're saying the blood is because it only has like a certain number of chromosomes, which would indicate that like it didn't come from a man or something.

>> Yeah. It's like, was it, does it, was it missing, I think, like the X chromosome.

>> No, it's it's X Y, but I, the claim doesn't really make a lot of sense. Blood doesn't work that way. But it's saying that it had all the chromosomes from Mary, but only one from Jesus or only one from God, and it was a w, it, it would, the way that they describe it sounds scientific, but that wouldn't even make a human. It, it would, Jesus would not have been able to function like he would have been like a...

>> He would have been born [laughter] correctly.

>> Like disabled, like a disability.

>> Yeah. It would have been like insanely disabled or something like that. Like, it, it would have been like he wouldn't walk.

>> Bro, you can't prove that Jesus not existed either, bro.

>> Say what? Okay. So...

>> You cannot prove that.

>> I assume that, I assume that wasn't you.

>> No, that wasn't me. It was, um...

>> Okay. But anyways, that being said, keep digging, keep searching, keep listening as well, if you can. Um...

>> Hold on. Was another thing with the, the president, the Russian president, where he found like, I think it was like, cuz I had to do research on that too, like where he found like a vault and it had like pictures of, uh...

>> Yeah.

>> You didn't hear about that?

>> What?

>> Yeah. He found like pictures, like it was like a, a vault. It was a deep vault and they found like pictures of Jesus and everything. I kid you not.

>> In Russia?

>> Yes. It, it was...

>> Why would it be in Russia? [sighs]

>> Bro? I kid you not. Look it up, bro. It was, this was either, it was a couple years ago, actually.

>> All right.

>> Dead ass. I can't. I was like, "It doesn't make any sense. That's not even close to the area." Like, how did he...

>> What?

>> Bro? Yes, bro. That's, that's what. But I sound just like you, bro. I was like, "What? The Russian president had found like old, um, like, like old treasures of Jesus and [expletive], bro. I kid you not."

>> I, I don't know how to, I don't know how to respond to that because that's the most ridiculous claim I think I've ever heard in my life.

>> Hold on. If I can, I'm going to tell you found...

>> That wouldn't make any sense. I don't even know what you're talking. Is this a thing that like...

>> This was, I, it was, um, a vault that they was digging over there and it was like pictures of how Jesus really looked.

And the president had like a picture of him and everything. It was not like... This is the best I'm getting here. Let me, let me pull this up here. So I search for "Putin finds treasures of Jesus." It says, uh, "He did not discover the treasures or a real photograph of Jesus, obviously. Instead, this claim stems from a viral social media misinformation. The online rumor stems from a heavily manipulated dark and grainy video accompanied by a fake English voiceover. The viral post falsely claims that Putin opened an ancient vault to reveal religious secret religious icons proving that Jesus was black." Fact-checkers from organizations like Reuters and Politifact have thoroughly debunked these claims. Uh, all that it is is he opens a wooden coptic box. Uh, he presents a traditional Russian Orthodox icon to military commanders. The artwork is a replica of Savior Not Made by Hands, which is a canonical representation of Jesus Christ, historically used as a protective banner of the Russian military. It's purchased from a private collector in the United States, not dug up in an ancient treasure vault.

>> So, no, it's just...

>> Yeah. That's like that was like a...

>> So, it sounds like to me that you've kind of got onto that part of YouTube or that part of TikTok where you've kind of been fed a lot of stories about things but...

>> They're kind of...

>> Just someone's either pulling your leg.

>> It sounded, if I had, yeah, I had to do like, like the research on like what?

>> Yeah.

>> Like over there in Russia. That's crazy. Russia.

Doesn't make any sense anyways. Why would it be in Russia? But point is, the point is, just, just be all about science. That's fine. But the thing about science is questioning things. You ask questions.

>> Keep asking questions.

>> Yeah. That's, yeah.

>> All right.

>> That's like...

>> Like Russia. How, like, how they found a black Jesus over there in Russia? [laughter]

>> I kid you not. I was like, "What?"

>> Yeah. So, anyways, anyways, that being said, I need to get to some other guests. Thank you very much for coming up. But keep asking questions, man. Keep asking questions. All right, that was OGK Fine Boy there, guys. OGK Fine Boy,

who ultimately was not a bad guest. Not a bad guest. You just gotta, you know, just gotta ask some questions. Gotta ask some questions. Not a bad guest. I enjoyed having them on. Okay. Uh, really fast. Uh, if you're on YouTube, you can definitely, uh, click the link in the chat. Uh, I take guests over on TikTok. YouTube does not allow for me to do that. It doesn't have a way to do that. Uh, so if you want to come up as a guest, click the link there in the chat. Come over to TikTok and, uh, I'll bring you up. Uh, if you don't have a TikTok or don't want to, that's perfectly fine. Send a super chat and I will read it out loud and respond to it. Uh, if you've got some evidence for Jesus or if you have a question for me or just want to say that I look like a douchebag, that's perfectly fine. Or if you want to come up and say, "Oh, hey, you look great today. I like the hat." That's fine, too. Now, uh, that being said, a dollar, sorry, $9.99 there, uh, from Created for Us. Super Chat. Thank you very, very much. Uh, said, "Hey, if you're a Christian, we should pray that their hearts may come to believe. The Lord answers when we pray together." And then I think a thumbs up or something. Or maybe I don't know. Things. Thumbs up. And then a hundred. I, are you talking about if I'm a Christian or you're just saying that? I think you're just kind of posting it to everybody. I, okay. Well, um, go ahead. It's perfectly fine with me. All right. Orlando Flores 0350.

>> Hey, man. What's up? Hey, what you got?

>> Yeah. I mean, I like the advice you gave. Uh, always ask questions. And you, you're making a statement that Jesus and Paul never existed.

>> Mhm.

>> Uh, my question is, who do you believe existed in that era?

>> Pilot.

>> So, you think Pontius Pilate existed at that time?

>> Yes. But we have less documented historian evidence about him than we have about Jesus.

>> Is that true?

>> No, it's not true.

>> Okay. Have you heard of Josephus?

>> Yep. And Paul mentioned Josephus.

>> Is he a fake?

>> Is he a fake historian?

>> I don't think so.

>> So he talks about Jesus.

>> Is he lying?

>> Uh, unfortunately, he is interpolated into in a couple different books of his, uh, by later Christians. So...

>> So he didn't actually write the parts about Jesus that is added in by a guy named Eusebius, writing a little over 200 years after the death of Josephus.

>> So, Eusebius is also a historian. Would he not be?

>> I mean, kind of. He's in the early 4th century. He's commissioned by Constantine to write a history for the church. And he's an admitted liar as well.

>> So, it sounds like you're picking and choosing not to your argument.

>> Yes, you are. No.

>> Because, because if Josephus is a reputable historian, nobody has anything against this, uh, historical writing.

>> As long as Josephus wrote it, then I, then I'd accept it as Josephus.

>> Sounds like you're picking and choosing though.

>> I'm not picking and choosing. I'm determining what parts are written.

>> Yes, you are. Nobody has, nobody has refuted anything he has written about history.

>> Uh, that's not true at all.

>> You are. Yes. Yes, it is true.

>> Uh, no. Because at the beginning of that book you're quoting from, it talks about, do you think that Hercules existed?

>> Let me give you the argument.

>> Do you think that Hercules existed?

>> It doesn't matter. We talked about...

>> It's a, it's a yes or no question and you're going to answer it or I'm going to move on to somebody else. Do you think that Hercules existed? Yes or no?

>> No.

>> Okay. Sweet. So, that would be you disputing or trying to refute what Josephus talked about as far as history goes. So, you just did it. You literally just did what you said. No one's done.

>> No, that's, that's, that's gaslighting. You're, you're gaslighting because you're not talking about...

>> Gaslighting. I don't think you know what that talking about. You said...

Josephus talks about Hercules at the beginning of Antiquities of the Jews. You're saying...

>> Argument's sake. I'm going to give you the right. I'm going to give...

>> You have now been muted because you're kind of being a little annoying. Anyways, the point is, Josephus talks about Hercules at the beginning of Antiquities of the Jews, the book and the person that you were quoting from. All right. When you say that he talks about Jesus, that being said, if you think that Hercules did not exist, then unfortunately you would be saying Josephus is not writing a real history. Fair enough. Every once in a while, people are kind of dumb. Every once in a while, people kind of say stupid [expletive]. That's fine. That's okay. Especially when it's not something that's even remotely close to the time that he was supposedly alive. This is Josephus. Now, when it comes to when it comes to, uh, Jesus, [clears throat and coughs] when it comes to Jesus, uh, the passage that you're talking about, the Testimonium Flavianum, most likely is something that is added in by a later author, and we can tell using a myriad of different ways. So, Josephus didn't actually write that. So, I mean, I, I don't know what to tell you. Even if he did write it, that doesn't necessarily mean it happened, per se, because you disagree with the Hercules thing. But, I'm saying he didn't even write that. There's a big difference here. Big difference. And you're not really understanding it. But that being said, I'm not picking and choosing. I'm analyzing the text and I'm trying to determine whether or not it is authentic to this author. And if it was authentic to Josephus, I would have to approach it as such. But it's not authentic to Josephus. So, I don't have to worry about it. It's something from a later, a later Christian author who is an admitted liar 200 years later. I don't, I don't care. It doesn't really matter. So, for, for argument's sake, for argument's sake, I'm going to give you that one because it's, it, it, it's clearly that you're trying to run away from the argument.

>> No.

>> I'm going to give you the argument.

>> No, I'm not running away from it. I just explained it.

>> Agreed. Agreed. Agree to disagree. No, because nobody...

>> Agree to disagree on what?

>> Conclusion. On your conclusion.

>> My confusion of what?

>> On your conclusion. My conclusion.

>> On my conclusion. My conclusion of what?

>> Yes.

>> What did I say? I don't have to repeat it. That's not gaslighting. It's not gaslighting. That's not what that is. You keep using...

Let's agree to disagree. Let's bring another argument.

>> Let's bring another. Disagree on what?

>> Another argument.

>> On what?

>> On the, that I, on what I said and what you said. Let's...

>> You don't even know what I said.

>> So, how do you know you disagree with it?

>> I, I did, I did, I did say I did know what you said.

>> Okay. Along the argument.

>> You're saying that Josephus, the stuff that Josephus wrote was not him. It was somebody else. But everybody else disagrees with you.

>> No.

>> Are you a historian? Are you a historian?

>> Yes.

>> All right. So bring. So bring. So bring documents that state what you're saying.

>> Kenneth, bring your sources.

>> Kenneth Olsson. Kenneth Olsson. Even Christian scholars acknowledge that.

>> Bring it. Bring it on the screen.

>> Okay. So, Testimonium Flavianum has been interpolated into. Even Christian scholars...

>> And how, and how? No, Christian scholars don't acknowledge none of this, bro.

>> Yeah, they do.

>> You're making stuff. All right. So, for argument's sake, for argument's sake.

>> What year are we on?

>> Okay. So, we're not going to pivot. It sounds like you want to run away from it. Here's the Testimonium Flavianum right here. And it says that it's probably the most discussed passage in Josephus. There is broad consensus among scholars regarding the nature of the authentic original reference to Jesus the Testimonium, as well as on what the passage would look like without the interpolations. Broad consensus acknowledges interpolations. So you are incorrect.

>> All right. So, who influenced Josephus to lie as a historian?

>> Uh, let's see. And by the way, by the way, the person who said this, uh, this is James Dunn. Yes, sir.

>> James Dunn. Listen, I know I'm still addressing here. James Dunn. Now, James Dunn literally works. He, he's known for his New Perspective on Paul here, uh, biblical studies. He is a New Testament scholar who for many years is a Lightfoot Professor of Divinity at the Department of Theology at the University of Durham. Like, I, he broadly worked within the Methodist tradition, uh, worked broadly within the Methodist tradition and was a member of the Church of Scotland and the Methodist Church of Great Britain during his life. So he's, he's dead now. But the point is, this is a literal Christian New Testament scholar who is saying there are interpolations into the text. So what do you have to say to that? Somehow you've muted yourself. I, I didn't even mute you. Or maybe it was a mod. I have no idea. Well, what do you have to say about the fact we're here? I told you I pulled up a literal Christian New Testament scholar who says there are interpolations.

>> I said, "Let's agree to disagree."

>> No, no, no. Listen, you said, you said, "Let us agree." Okay, now you made it again. All right. You said, "Let's agree to disagree because you believed that my conclusion that's been interpolated into is wrong." All right. And you asked for proof. You asked for proof that that scholars talk about this, that Christian scholars acknowledge this. And I pulled up a Christian scholar, a personally Christian scholar who said it's been interpolated into. So, please explain how you're going to disagree with the fact that there's people who think it's been interpolated into when I showed you evidence that people...

>> Let me, let me ask you a question. When somebody does an investigation of a crime, do they go for the very first...

>> All right. So, you're not addressing the question. I'm asking you to please show...

>> How I can disagree.

>> I'm, I'm not saying you have to agree with me necessarily. I'm just needing you to acknowledge that Christian scholars know that it has been interpolated into.

>> I don't want to agree to that because I have to look at my, the source myself. I don't trust you.

>> You asked me for, you asked me for the source and I showed it to you. You literally asked me to show it to you. If you didn't trust me, then why did you want me to show it to you?

>> Because you're the, the only person.

>> If you, if you didn't trust me, then why did you ask me to show it to you?

>> I'm, I'm telling you right now why. And you're not letting me talk.

>> Okay. Just address that question. If you didn't trust me, why did you ask me to show it to you?

>> Because I wanted to see what other lies he was going to bring out.

>> Okay. So, you think you think it is a lie.

>> That this guy right here.

>> You think he lied or you think I'm lying when I'm showing you what?

>> I think you're lying because nobody thinks that Josephus is not a reputable historian. Nobody does.

>> I didn't, I didn't say that. That wasn't what was being questioned.

>> Right. But nobody questions his historical evidence, his historical writings.

>> No. Uh, what you disagreed with earlier when you said agree to disagree was whether or not, was whether or not people acknowledged that he had been interpolated into. That's what you would agree to disagree to.

>> No, I agreed that he's a historian and you agree that he was a historian. Then you, okay, so then what were you disagreeing then? What were we agreeing to disagree then?

>> That Josephus, who happens to be a historian, wrote about Jesus.

>> No, that's not at all what we were disagreeing on.

>> No, I know we're not disagreeing about that. I'm telling you the statement. I'm telling you what actually happened. You're just telling me what you think happened because it's true.

>> Then let me ask you this question. Do you acknowledge that even Christian scholars know that that passage from Josephus has been messed with or edited? You acknowledge that?

>> Okay. So, how do you address? So, how do you address what I showed you? How do you address this?

>> Simple. Simple.

>> Mhm.

>> For an investigation, you need more than one evidence. You only show me one evidence. So, I...

There's broad consensus. Is that more than one evidence?

>> No, no, no, no. Let me explain to you how it works. When you, when you do an investigation,

>> You don't go for the first evidence. You got to have several evidence. So, I told you, let's agree to disagree.

>> Let's go above it really fast then. This isn't from James Dunn. This is from five different sources.

>> Listen, listen, listen.

>> I don't want to go through.

>> All right. You've been muted now. You don't want to go through it because you told me that we shouldn't go to just one. And then I'll say, "Okay, well then let's go to more than one." Now, you don't want to go through it because you know that there's more than one. You know that you're going to get ass kicked, so you don't want to do it. So that's how that. Please be quiet. All right. So, uh, when it, when it...

>> Let me ask you a question. Right.

>> Okay. Listen, you're going to have to stay quiet because we're talking here or I'm showing you something. It says, "Since the late 20th century, the general consensus has held that the Testimonium is partially authentic and that an authentic nucleus referencing to the life of Jesus, uh, was original to Josephus." So, partially authentic means it's been edited. Correct. Correct. That's a question. You can unmute to answer that question. Partially authentic means it's been edited.

>> But that doesn't say he didn't exist. It doesn't say he didn't. I'm aware. But we're trying to figure of Jesus.

>> Listen. So please answer the question. Does partially authentic mean it has been edited?

>> Yes. That doesn't mean he did not exist. Okay. So, because of the fact that I've shown you, shown you multiple sources that show that it has been, that it has been edited...

>> Edited.

>> Okay. So, would you agree that even Christian scholars acknowledge that that passage has been edited?

>> Yes. What? That doesn't prove that it exists, bro.

>> It doesn't prove it.

>> Sweet. So, if it has been edited, then what parts do you think are authentic and how did you determine it?

>> Dude, dude, this is like saying Michael Jordan, uh, went, uh, had three rings and somebody edited later on and said, "No, he actually had six." You know? So, Michael Jordan did not exist because, you know, the sources have been edited. That's stupid.

>> So, what do you think are authentic and what parts do you think are not authentic? And how did you decide?

>> The fact that he existed. The fact that he existed is authentic. I don't care what else they can say.

>> How did you determine that was?

>> Because they're talking about it.

>> Because they're talking about it though is logic.

>> Okay. So, they're able to confirm that some of it is not actually from Josephus. But other things you say are from him because it's in there. All of it's in there. Even the parts that you think are not authentic.

>> Yes. We're talking about edited, not edit. We're talking about edit it, not...

>> What kind of edits do you think they're talking about? I don't know. Maybe he emerged from the dead. Maybe he...

>> Well, it says right here. It tells you what type of edit it would be. It's called an interpolation. What is an interpolation?

>> It doesn't matter.

>> No. What is an interp?

>> Tell me where it says he never existed. Tell me where it says he never existed.

>> What is an interpolation?

>> What is an interpolation?

>> Tell me where in the writings. Tell me where in the writing...

All right, we're going to have to try this again. What is an interpolation? I want you to tell me what an interpolation is.

>> Dude. Dude, go go go straight to the...

>> Okay. What is an interpolation? Just give me the definition of the word or say...

>> I don't know. You tell me. I don't know. Tell me.

>> An interpolation is someone adding to a text that it already exists. The fact that it is talking about edit. Okay. Listen. No. You were trying to say that it wasn't added. All right. You said edits, not add.

>> All right. But it w that was the type of edit. Listen. Listen. If I mute you, by the way, until I tell you to unmute, stay muted. All right. I want to continue the conversation, but you're gonna have to show some respect to the fact that I am the host and I'm going to explain things to you and the fact that you don't know what they mean. That means that you need to be quiet until I'm done explaining it. All right. All right. You have been you have been muted. Do not unmute or you will be disconnected. All right. See you later. Okay. So, an interpolation, an interpolation is an addition to a text that has already been around. All right. This is the type of edit that even Christian scholars acknowledge has happened to Josephus's Antiquities of the Jews. All right. The issue that I have is specifically with how they have determined that certain parts are authentic while other parts aren't aren't. And the only real, only real way that they do that is they kind of go through and say, "What would Josephus have said if he did say anything about Jesus?" And they just kind of pick and choose. There's no, there's no version of Josephus that we have that doesn't include, uh, the interpolated, uh, uh, issues.

At least within Greek. Uh, we don't have anything like, there's like an Arabic version that's sort of kind of more watered down and they just kind of said, "Oh, hey, let's go with this 10th century Arabic version," uh, because everything else that we have in Greek, that is what Josephus wrote in, uh, going back prior, is the parts that we don't like and so therefore we'll just pick and choose. That's how that works. Uh, or this, how that's unfortunately happened or how it unfolded. Uh, so, yeah, as far as Josephus goes, it is, it is really, really bad to try to use that as evidence. That's why that's why Bart Ehrman doesn't even really try to do it. Not really. He acknowledges that Josephus writes, but it, it's, it's definitely in question there. Definitely in question. Okay. Uh, let's see. Again, if you're on YouTube, if you want to come up, you definitely can. Click the link that's in the chat. I take guests on TikTok, or you can send a super chat and I'll respond to it. Um, we've got Orlando coming up here. He's wanting to practice what Jesus said and turning the other cheek, so we can get the other side of his ass. Uh, Orlando, uh, I want you to tell me right here and right now, or you will get blocked. Oh, give me the definition of the word interpolation.

>> You already explained it. I don't need to explain that. I, I want to make sure that you heard me and paid attention.

>> Can we agree? Can we agree to it?

>> All right. Uh, you have one more opportunity, otherwise you will get blocked. Uh, it's up to you. You can, you can answer the question or you can get blocked. What is an interpolation?

>> Yes, you already, you already explained this. Somebody that...

>> I already told you. Somebody that adds to the history events. Uh, give me an example.

>> Or a hypothetical.

>> No, dude. I don't know how to explain.

>> It sounded, it sounded close, but I just want to make sure that you got...

>> I agree. Let's, let's just say this. I agree.

>> It's not a matter of agreeing at this point. Now, I just want to make sure that you are actually listening to definitions.

>> I, I understand what you're saying.

>> Okay. Please give an example of a...

>> Somebody who...

Go ahead. Make it like a complex answer.

>> What?

>> Somebody who adds to the text.

>> Close. An interpolation is what they actually add to a previously existing text. I, I'll let it slide. The somebody, the somebody is an interpolator, I guess, but I'll, I'll let it slide. All right. So now that we agree that there have been interpolations into the text, I'm asking you now, please explain to me, can you please explain to me how you determined what parts were authentic to Josephus while other parts weren't? How did you determine that?

>> Simple. Simple.

>> You ready for it?

>> Yep.

>> I'm going to give you the answer. Jesus existed. That's it. That's it.

>> So the conclusion...

>> Argument.

>> But no, Josephus was your argument for Jesus. So you're saying the reason we know Josephus wrote about it is because of the answer.

>> No, you asked me what part was.

>> The only reason we're talking about Josephus is because you're saying that Josephus is evidence for Jesus. I said, "How do you know Jesus existed?" You said, "Josephus." I said, "How do you know Josephus wrote about Jesus?" And you said, "Because Jesus existed." Like you're just, it's circular...

reason. I'm, I'm going to give you exactly what I said. It wasn't what you said. I asked you, "Do you believe that Josephus is a reputable and credible historian?" And you said yes.

>> Yes.

>> That's why the conclusion...

>> I mean, everybody else disagrees with you. Everybody thinks Josephus and everybody uses Josephus to, to talk about the history of the first century in those days. Josephus is the guy.

>> Okay. Yeah, that's why I said generally, yeah, it's fine.

>> For somebody.

>> So if somebody comes and says, "Hey, this and this happened in the first century." How do you know? Because we have historians who like contemporaries who were there.

>> Historian guy.

>> Yeah.

>> Who, who was the number one historian at that time? Josephus.

>> I mean...

>> Nobody has an argument.

>> Nobody has an argument against Josephus. Again, I just showed you, I just showed you a Christian scholar who's personally religious who says that he's been edited into, but okay.

>> Okay. So, he's been edited into. Why has been edited into?

>> Why?

>> What, what has been added?

>> The Testimonium. The p, the piece that talks about Jesus.

>> So, everything in the Jesus, everything about Jesus is is added and everything that was said about Pontius Pilate is legitimate? Well, considering the fact that he only talks about Jesus supposedly in one paragraph out of a whole bunch of, uh, books and Pilate is mentioned in multiple chapters in multiple books. It's pretty obvious that Pilate was somebody who is legit. On top of that, uh, Pilate is also, listen, Pilate is also somebody who lived at the same time, albeit very slight amount of time, but at the same time as Josephus, whereas Jesus would have died prior to Josephus. So he's not even really a contemporary. And we have the Pilate Stone that confirms that Pilate existed. And we have Philo of Alexandria who is mentioned by Josephus who talks about Pilate and lived at the same time as Pilate. So there's multiple ways to get to Pilate. And again, Josephus, Josephus is your evidence for Jesus. That's what you're ultimately trying to do. So, I'm asking you, how do you know that when it says anything about Jesus, that that part in, in that paragraph that we know has been edited into, how did you determine that the parts about Jesus that, like, it wasn't all added? How do you know that it wasn't all added?

>> Let's, let's, let's put it this way because when you do an investigation, you don't focus on one evidence, right?

>> Would you agree?

>> Uh, please answer the question. Answer the question.

>> I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to, I don't know that. I don't know.

What was added? I don't know. All I know is this. This is all I know.

So then if you don't know if it's been added or not, there's more, bro. There's more, bro. Chill. There's more.

So if you don't know that it's been added, you can't use it as an argument. It's not going to be a good argument.

Yes, I can. Yes, I can.

Because you don't know what was in there.

I want to move on. The only reason I want to move on is because I want to show you that there's more than just that.

Sweet. That's fine. We can move on, but you're going to. That's fine. But you're going to have to acknowledge that you can't use Josephus anymore because you don't know.

No, I will use Josephus because everybody considers Josephus a a reputable historian except you.

No, I just showed you a personally religious.

Let me ask you a question.

No, we're doing this again. I showed you a personally religious Christian scholar who says that it has been interpolated into we.

All right, let me ask a question. No, no. You got to you got to know how to just be quiet. Listen, we don't have any way to determine that he said jack [ __ ] about Jesus in the testimony in Flaviana. All right? So therefore, you can't use that as an argument because it's just a big question mark at best. All right? So, as long as you acknowledge that you can't use that because it's a big question mark, I will allow for you to continue and move to your next point. Acknowledge that it's a question mark and therefore you can't use it and we will move on. What would you like to do? Would you like for me to disconnect you because you're not following how this is conversation is going to go or would you like to acknowledge this very obvious fact that it's a question mark and then we can continue. Which one would you like to do? You can unmute. Would you like to be disconnected or would you like to admit that it's a question?

Right. It's it's not a fact. But however, for sake of argument, I'm going to give it to you.

Because because this is an opinion against you and me. This is an opinion basis you and me.

Okay. So, it's a big question.

No, it's it's we can agree to disagree. How about that?

We're not going to agree to disagree that it's a question mark because it absolutely is a question mark.

We don't I don't Dude, I don't have to agree. You won. Is that what you is that.

It's not a matter It's not a matter of winning. It's a matter of you understanding that you already admitted that you don't know how to pick out which part is real. So therefore, it's not admissible as as evidence.

Right. You're you're right. You're right. You're right. And we don't know what part is real.

So therefore, you can't admit it as evidence.

However, we do know that his writing is in Josephus. Are we are we agree on that?

That what writing? A historian.

The writings about Jesus have been uh documented in Josephus uh work.

No, that's. No.

Yes.

No. That's Are you talking about like the versions we have today? Is that what you're saying?

Two things can be true. Two things can be true. One is. Yes.

All right. No, we're you're acknowledging that like I am correct that this is a this is not admissible and then you're saying but we can at least acknowledge it's in there. It's like no.

All right. Uh, get to some super chats there. 999 says from no sleep. 612 says, "Look up allegedly Ian if you believe in God." Yeah, I I guess some people over on YouTube are talking about God as if that's the topic today. That's not the topic. We're talking about whether or not Jesus and Paul existed. If you think there's evidence for him, come on up. Click the link that's in the chat. I take guests on you not on YouTube on TikTok. If you're on YouTube, click the link in the chat or send a super chat. I'll respond to it. $5 there from Lewis says, "You giving this guy too many chances. Just mute him." By the way, hashtang. I thought that we would be able to make it through this entire day without ever having to deal with the queue. And look at that. We've already hit it. We have now reached 380 Q's. 380. That we're we're well over a 100red Q's per week. That's disgusting. All right, we got somebody else who's coming up here. This is uh Money Man.

Yo, what up.

Money Man? What you got? Um yeah. So we have um historical facts that they existed.

We have historical facts that they existed.

Yeah.

Okay.

So the same way the same way we have historical facts for Christopher Columbus, for Hitler, for um.

We have pictures of them. Like we have photographs and videos and audio recordings of Jesus and Paul.

Nice. So.

No, I'm asking you a question. Is that Is that true?

What would you say?

I'm asking you. Do we have videos, audio recordings, and pictures of Jesus and Paul?

I'm I'm coming. I'm coming.

I'm asking a question.

I'm coming. You say yes or no?

Wait.

I just said yes.

Okay, we do. All right. So, I want you to provide an audio recording of Paul.

Okay, we're clear. We're obviously not going to find audio recordings.

Okay. So, I don't know why you compared I don't know why you compared them to somebody who existed during.

All right, money man. Uh, if you say the word come one more time, you're going to go ahead and get blocked. That's just how that works. Uh, I So, I feel like you're already a troll. You probably are because you don't have that many followers. Uh, but that being said, if you'd like to continue this conversation, you're gonna have to just directly answer questions. All right. Um, why did you compare Jesus and Paul to somebody who we do have videos, audio recordings, and pictures of?

Why did you compare?

So, it's it yeah, it's it's not the level of evidence. It's any evidence, right?

Okay. Well, you said, and I quote, we have u we have facts for them. like we have evidence for them in the same way that we have evidence for and then you named somebody who existed during the time of video and audio recording.

Okay. So, just so I can answer your question properly, how do you how would you what would be what was satis what would satisfy you with evidence?

I don't even know what the [ __ ] you're trying to ask. Try it again.

Okay. Like what could satisfy you in terms of a hand.

Coming. I'm coming.

Sweet.

I'm coming.

Do you have any other evidence for Jesus or Paul?

No. All right. All right. Let's see. Uh, prototype uh prototype 1619 there on YouTube said, "What what made you think Queef wouldn't show up?" Well, honestly, I thought maybe that like it just kind of had quieted down and we'd be able to just kind of move on from it. It's like, ah. But no, no, no. Of course, of course someone's got to be dragging it back. This is a dead horse, everybody. Oh, man. The only thing worse than beating a dead horse is betting on one. Thank you, Matt Ties. All right, so uh let's see. No, Naz. Nope. Uh if you got any evidence for Jesus or Paul, come on up. I want to hear from you. I'd like to hear from you. That's what that's all I'm saying. Yep.

Mhm. Hey.

I'm coming. I'm coming.

I just figured it was the same guy. All right. Uh, let's see. Uh, should we give Orlando Flores another chance? Should we Should we Should we give him another chance? Maybe. I don't know. Maybe. No. People are saying no. No. All right. All right. Enough people said no. I get it. I get it. I get it for the plot. Yeah. No. Zach only like, "Yeah." All right. Uh, Tiny Science. What's Oh, what? Tiny Science. What's up here? There you go. Tiny Science. What you got, man? Uh, I just wanted to say that uh queefs will never stop.

You you feel pretty good about yourself.

I just wanted to let you know it's inevitable. Queefs are inevitable.

Unless you're celibate.

Right? That won't stop them.

China is like, "No, it's not going to stop me."

Stop them. Yeah. Sorry.

All right. Well, um I hope you guys.

I didn't even hear the music for that one. I hope you guys enjoyed uh Tiny Science here. uh because Tiny Science's time on this panel has come to come to an end. Uh is there anything else that you'd like to add other than your announcement?

Uh yeah, I appreciate everything you do, Jiren. You're doing great work. I love your face and um that's a wonderful hat you're wearing. Well, thank.

And queefs will never stop. I appreciate you. Have a wonderful day.

My god, what a man. What a man. All right. Uh, let's see. Uh, $5 there from Kokard there on YouTube says, "Marcon Polycarp etc. were Greek Anatolians. Ply mentions early Christians in Pontis. Why then invent Jesus as Jewish? Why care about Old Testament at all?" Good question. because that area uh especially that area there in Asia Minor and whatnot is where the Christians are. But they end up getting an influx of uh Jewish thought and Jewish uh people, Jewish Jewish culture and theology and whatnot um post Baroka revolt because in the 130s in 136 Emperor Hadrien banishes Jewish people from uh uh Judea rem renaming it Syria Palestina and driving them into the surrounding regions. this would bring into the areas that Christians actually are. It would bring new Jewish thought and everything. So, it's it's just kind of it's an interesting it's an interesting backstory that you end up getting. Josephus actually talked about it and his books were wellreceived prior to this anyways or he didn't talk about the Barco revolt but he talked about uh like the fall of the temple and everything like that. He talked about the first Jewish Roman war. This is information that's going out uh in Greek uh into the Roman Empire uh as early as like 70 80 somewhere in there is the first time that the Jewish war gets disseminated. Uh so all you really have to be is somebody who's sort of kind of a history buff if you will or sort of kind of familiar to uh some of the plightes of the Jewish people there within the first century. And as you get more of their um more of their culture in your area, you might incorporate that into some of your stories or your mythologies. But yes, obviously they were all people who were uh connected closely there with uh with Pontis and with uh Asia Minor and whatnot. Uh I love people. What you got?

Oh, sorry man. I was I was by mistake. Sorry. Sorry. I'm just listening, bro. So.

Oh, can you take me out? Uh, any questions while you're up here?

No, I don't have any questions. I'm just learning, man. Thank you. Thank you so much.

Yeah, thanks for coming up. Thanks. Uh, let's see here. All right. If you've got any evidence for Juicer Paul, come on up. Uh, let's see. It might RT says because because the Romans wanted to replace Judaism with Christianity and Jesus says no it's not from the Romans. Uh if look the single greatest piece of evidence like pretty much the nail in the coffin um for how we know that the Romans didn't come up with this. Well, there's actually two really good points. Number one, it shows up way too late. The first gospel gets published in about 144. There's no way there's no way that the the Flavians did anything with it because the Flavians die out in about 95 96. So the Flavians didn't have anything to do with it. So that's that's gone. U and Josephus dies in like 100 101. So he didn't have anything to do with it either. Then you have um then you have the idea that uh Ply has no clue about Christians and everything like that whenever he shows up in in 111 or whenever he writes the letter to Emperor Hadrien in 111. He writes about them as if he's never heard of them and he tortures and unal alive some of them. So if it was coming from the Roman government, if it was something that was created by the Roman government, then Ply wouldn't have been doing that and he wouldn't have Emperor Hrien saying, "Yeah, that's what you're supposed to do." I don't know what to tell you. And Ply served under the Flavians. So it it would be very strange of him to not know um a lot of information about the Christians and whatnot and to be torturing them and unaliving them and to get the okay to continue that. if Rome was actively trying to encourage people to become Christians for some benefit of theirs. All right, let's see here. But anyone else? Anyone else got any evidence for Jeer Paul? Uh we do have somebody who's requesting up here. This is an interesting interesting person here. This is wondering uh Zack Laser Hoffman.

I was just wondering why do we even have that lever.

And also queef queefy ququeefqy queef. Uh, que. I speak queef. I took it. I was a junior queeever.

I hate that that works. so much. And.

Pull the lever, crunk roll.

I hate that. That was really funny. Okay. Uh, so, uh, life is wild or is it me? What's What you got?

Yeah. So, it's not I don't have any evidence for Jesus or Paul, but I I do know that you're you're I do know that you're interested in the uh hypothesis of why the religion was created. Um, and here lately as I've been going through my de construction, I I really believe it was a co-op through Rome and uh Judaism, creating an auxiliary religion that would continually support Judaism and basically submit to Caesar. And if you look at the text of uh how Jesus in the Bible talks about government um just the control of people, I I believe that this was a perfect co-op. I've worked at corporate America and I see that um when two companies do a a successful project together, they rarely disembark from each other and and go their separate ways. They continue to work. So Judaism has been um in every stretch of the the globe either in the banking systems or in other you know types of media today and consumerism um pretty in a pretty strong manner. So I I do think that there's a a reason uh or a benefit for Rome and Judaism to create this auxiliary religion of Christianity with Judaism being um also a madeup religion. I I think that they you know the the higher higher ups in the religion realize that their Messiah is never coming that it's it's a farce completely. And so what what does it hurt to create a messiah that has come that they they don't believe in that they they deny existed or if he did existed he you know is in hell rotting in his own sacrament. So uh that's just my hypothesis. I I have no evidence of that. It just makes sense that that the people of the time would create a religion that would eventually benefit them. And um I I've I've been highly involved in megaurches. Um I was pretty high up in leadership in a couple of the two biggest in in or I'm sorry in Ohio and South Carolina and I I really just see how they work on the internals and they've sent a lot of money to Israel and it really doesn't make sense.

So at this point now I'm very confused as to what you're even trying to talk about now. So the the creation like why would why would they create Jesus? Why would they create Paul? Well, because they needed to create these figures for the the religion to to take hold and actually form like when you're creating a religion.

So why why are you saying that Rome created it? Where's your evidence that he created it? I I said I said well I I think that I think the creation if you want it to be legitimate in the people's eyes you don't give evidence of the creation of it because then they're like oh look.

So in other words your evidence for why it was created is nowhere to be found so therefore you think it.

I I thought it be the hypothesis typically comes before the the discovery and research.

Sweet. So, what did you discover during your research that showed that Rome actually created Christianity?

I'm I'm I'm at the point of hypothesis.

And now the research starts. Yeah.

Oh, no. It didn't create the religion. I can just I can just go ahead if you're just researching it. No, it did not.

You don't you don't think that Judaism and Rome could have co-opted a a religion?

No.

Just like just like Elon Hubard.

No.

created. Okay. The reason the reason for that is because uh first of all um Rome and the Jewish people uh did not necessarily see eye to eye which is why there's three different Jewish Roman wars uh one outside of Judea two in Judea uh and the last one being in the 13s the first one being from 68 to 70. So no there no they did not come together and create some religion or something like that. And the first time that Rome actually interacts with this religion personally and like dives into what they believe and and interacts with like their day-to-day rituals and whatnot is planning the younger in 111 or 112. Uh this is a little bit before the second Jewish Roman war. And it I mean in no way, shape or form did it have any kind of uh he he he shows a a general lack of understanding as to who the Christians are or what they do.

Do you see though responds Emperor Hrien responds back to Ply saying you should continue to do what you're doing which inevitably was torturing and unaliving some of them uh because they were breaking some of the laws. Uh a very common statement is follow the money. Do you see that a lot of uh benefit exists for empires whether it be the United States, Great Britain or Rome?

No. You're comparing You're compar Okay, stop. You're comparing modern-day abilities of governments to do certain things like SCOPS and stuff like that that that they didn't have back then. The reason Ply was even in power over there in Pontis and whatnot is or on Pontis and uh uh Pontis and and Pthnia is because of the fact that um just about everything would go uh political or it become rebellious very very quickly. Generals were constantly becoming turncoats. The reason why Rome had such a hard time staying together was because the lack of ability to kind of get everybody to cohesively uh form to one like mind uh or one mindset.

I think that's where religion come I think I I think that's where religion actually but unfortunately Christianity had been around prior to this as well. Christianity we see remnants of it going back all the way to the late 1st century BCE. The Jesus story at best would be your claim to what they come up with. But even then it falls flat because the first Jesus story appears in 144. So it doesn't it it no there is zero evidence whatsoever that Rome created Christianity or the story of Jesus. It it just think it was you think it was created out and as the ground swell started to form they they co-opted it and just took the benefits from it that they could.

Who? the the fellow uh auxiliary religions and governments because it it has provided benefit to other religions and governments throughout time.

Okay. But that's you're talking much later. The the by the time that Christianity and the Roman government kind of get in bed with each other, it's the 4th century. Prior to that, we don't see any evidence whatsoever that they're doing that. In fact, it's pretty it's pretty common that like they're not they're at odds with each other because the Christians are consistently breaking the law that says that you have to worship the emperor as a god or acknowledge that he's a god. You can worship whatever you want. You just also have to acknowledge the emperor as a god. But the Christians, as ply writes, a true Christian is not able to do so. So, as a result, they're constantly fighting. They're not they're kind of pushing and pulling. Now, they're not being persecuted. They're just being prosecuted for breaking the law. It's a stupid law, but it's nevertheless a law. But regardless, if if it was something that was explicitly coming from Rome or if the government was benefiting from it, then they wouldn't be doing all this kind of uh infighting and whatnot. Like, we're not in.

So, there's the there there's the the when the the who created it, but what would you say? What would you uh what would you say the why is to create it? Create what?

The religion of Christianity.

You keep saying create as if it just Why are you saying create?

Because religions.

Well, I mean, sure, but like religions lots of times can evolve out of just dumb [ __ ] that people sort of kind of believe over time and mystery cults that become religions. I mean.

So you just think it it evolved into what it is today? Well, absolutely evolved into what it is today. But like the earliest iterations of it, you could maybe say like if I had to point to one person who I feel like is responsible for this creation. Or if I have to point to a creation of the religion, it's Tommy the first bringing down uh a statue of Serapus from Copee, which is in Pontis, Bethnia Pontis, down to uh down to Alexandria. So like.

Gotcha. That's maybe today.

Formation if you will, but it evolves from there to the cult or the religion that we have today. Yes.

I yeah, I could I could see the evolution because, you know, my recent times in megaurches is not nearly what it was, you know, even even a hundred years ago. But with the rise of Christian nationalism, it it's obviously evolved to the next step where, you know, young young guys my age and even your age, a little bit younger, are are really taking up arms with this Christian nationalism. And that's kind of like I guess where.

Again this has nothing to do with what we're talking about. Like it it sounds like your your focus is on like Christianity today or religion today and stuff like that and how it impacts us. And that's fine. That is a valid concern. Absolutely. But it's not the topic of the live. This live is dealing with this live is dealing with like um like the historicity of two characters, Jesus and Paul, and to I guess a greater extent the New Testament or how it comes together. But it sounds like a lot of where you're coming from is based off of modern takes or modern examples and stuff and that's fine, but for modern stuff that doesn't automatically apply to back in the past. It's not a very good rubric for understanding the past.

Not not very well.

Sure. I no it I I wouldn't say it's it's perfect for that but I do think that the the the eagle-eyed view of the whole story shows the evolution a little more and shows uh you know a path of how it's worked and how it's evolved. So as you go back humans haven't changed a ton since like in 2000 years there's there's some core elements to how we think how we move and how we belong or how we separate. So I I think there's a lot to learn from that.

Yeah. But I mean, look, today it's hard to say that the way that we operate today is indicative of how we operated back 2,000 years ago. Not I mean, there's some elements that that that can work, but a lot of how we interact with each other today is empowered by our much much far superior communication skills. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Even social media in general.

Yeah. Just our ability to talk. Like currently, right now, there are people overseas who are listening to me talk and they're probably only getting the the words from my mouth maybe a second or two after they come out. Like, that is crazy. And that that's something that back then you wouldn't be able to talk to somebody a h 100red yards away because they didn't have microphones. Like, it's I mean, it's it's awful. Sure. Well, thanks for that. I'm I'm really interested if you start to dive more into who, when, and why it was created. if you if you come out with a future book. Um, I know you're focused on the existence of these two men, but like.

Well, I will say that we we have an entire section and an entire chapter, I believe, uh, there in our next book that's coming out, um, that is devoted to how Christianity rises up or how Christianity starts because um, in our last book, we talked a little bit more specifically to like the text itself and about what the ancient historians say, what the church fathers say in order to tackle Jesus and then to a lesser extent Paul. But we did a little bit try to come up with a timeline of how Christianity comes together. But we found out a lot of information since then that kind of helps place it on the timeline better. So in our next book, we actually do have an entire section that's devoted towards um how this comes to be and the intent and the dates and the the trying to figure out exactly who writes and why they write and stuff like that there in in the second century.

That's awesome. I'll be buying it. Thank you so much.

Oh, yeah. Oh, thanks. Thanks for coming up. Okay. Uh, let's see. That was life is wild. Or is it me? Um, and really quick, I wanted to get to some super chats. $5 there from Zeno Ludre who says, "Warm. Oh god. Warm gus warm gusts escape like scurrying mice. A gentle draft that will suffice. A sudden breeze. Soft. Both soft and nice. Inevitably out here queefing for Christ." All right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You have the rabbit. All right. Uh $5 from Yvanni Vartigus. Uh says, "Saw the saw the Serapus statue or as therapist statue in the Chicago's art institute yesterday." That's pretty cool. Said Serapus was no longer worshiped after the rise of Christianity. I wonder why. H that is true. After the uh rise of Christianity, uh Serapus was kind of stmped out because, you know, why go back to the old god when you got the new one? Well, then again, they did go back to the old god and kicked away the new one. H funny how that worked. All right. Uh, we do have up on the panel, good friend of mine, Christina the Godless, one-third of Girls Gone Godless, where all podcasts can be found, as well as one-third of Bible liel, where all Bible liel can be found.

Yeah, I just came up here. I thought it was time for a plug. I wanted you to a pallet cleanser, if you will. cleanse my palette. Uh, uh, Sister Christina, I guess. Sister, you dress like a nun. That kind of thing. Yeah.

Yes, I do. Uh, yeah. So, Bible Liel, your new favorite game show with your new favorite hosts, myself, Jiren.

And Matthew.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. in that order actually.

Because and this is true if you're watching Matthew.

[ __ ] you.

No no no.

Um no it'll be it'll be very fun. What did we decide on? Was it 700 p.m. Central?

Is it 7 p.m. central? No, I think it's seven your time. It's 9 central.

Oh se Oh, okay. I need to look back through my notes. Yeah. Okay. 7 Pacific. Sure.

Pretty sure.

Um every Sunday night it'll be your favorite place to be. Bible liel answering all the questions you've ever.

Better get in there and get in there fast because it's only an hour long. It's only an hour long.

Yeah. It's just the tip. It's just a tip. And you never can tell something that you say may end up in a book.

It may.

We're taking this one all the way to the bank.

All the way to the bank.

Books.

And the bank's going to laugh at us and be like, "No, you can't start.

Board games.

With Bible label.

Live traveling show. We're shooting for the stars here. We're doing it all. We may end up with a video game. You never can tell.

You know what? Hey, they made Pepsi, man.

They could make Bible life Bible.

They did. They did. The fact that you know that. How? Why do you know that?

I have three boys.

Okay.

Cuz I have three boys.

Like, what?

All right.

Just a big Pepsi fan over here.

That guy did kind of sound like Cyber, didn't he? like in a way the last guess.

He didn't say right a that's that's true that's the that's the key giveaway that it's it's cyber is that he he says right like he just wants to make sure that you're following along.

For sure all right you can lever me.

Okay again Bible liel uh the first episode is coming out this Sunday I believe I'm pretty sure it is and I correct me if I'm song, guys. You guys can go figure it out. But I'm pretty sure it's 9 to 10 central. So, it's it's late at night, but that's the exact time that you want it to be because it is uh it's going to be off the rails. It is going to be off the rails.

Lots of lots of dicks, lots of do angels have buttholes, lots of fun stuff. I'm telling you, all the questions you've ever asked about the Bible, we're going to answer them.

All the questions that you've ever wanted to ask, but you didn't ask because your teacher would tell your parents.

This is true.

That's.

How that works.

And if our business meetings are any any um show any like seriousness, like there is none. Like our business meetings have been off the rails and so I know the show is just going to be amazing because we can't be serious to save our [ __ ] lives. Anyway, have a good day.

All right.

Lover me.

All right. Uh, let's see what sound uh here we got here. H Well, here we go.

Pull the lever. Crank roll.

Oh, I love it. All right. Uh if you got any evidence for Jesus or Paul, come on up. I want to hear from you. If you're watching over on YouTube, click the link in the chat. I want to hear from you. Uh we can talk about it. That's not a problem at all. Uh just switching over to the live chat really fast. Someone said read Papyrus 52. I don't think you think that that means that. Okay. Yeah, P-52 is dated to 200. Yes, Aaron got it. Uh, let's see. Dude's rage baiting. Well, come on up if you got evidence. playing with his hair because he knows he's full of [ __ ] That's the tell what, man. YouTube people over on YouTube, they just kind of say anything. All right. Yeah, P-52 doesn't help you in the slightest. It actually works against you. Yeah. Uh, what is going on? Uh, vice.

I'm modding your YouTube, but you told people from YouTube to come and either give evidence or tell you you look good and I like your hat. I'm here to do the latter. You look good and I like your hat.

Well, thank you. Thank you very much. Do I have a sound for Thank Oh, yes, I do. Yes. So, thank you for coming up and uh sharing at least a little bit of positivity. some positivity. Yeah.

That's what I aspire to do in this life.

Yeah. Well, you've done it. Even though your name is Vice.

That's that's none of your business.

Okay. Well, all right. Well, no more prying. Uh anyways, thank you very much to Vice and thank you to anybody uh who thinks that uh my hat looks good. Thank you. No, it's uh I'm not gonna lie to you guys. This cowboy hat is cheap. I'm talking cheapo depot. Normally, I get my hats at either NRS or Boot Barn. This hat was purchased at none other than a 7ele1.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Quality for 7-Eleven. It's not too terribly bad. Not too terribly bad. Gets the job done. Gets the job done. And also is pretty easy on the uh pretty easy on the wallet. The good old the good old uh ass purse. Whoa.

I like that one, too. All right. But yeah. Any any questions, though, Vice, while you're up here? That was such odd timing.

The people who are sending that [ __ ] on TikTok, they are trying to get me cancelled because the people on YouTube, they literally just had me, they watched me address you and then just a voice said, "Put your mouth around it." I need you guys to know that that That was funny.

You can drop me.

Pull the lever, crunk wrong.

Welcome to hell. All right. You have the best sound effects on Tik Tok. You know what I say to that? Squeeze my lemon.

Anyways, also.

Shut up.

What?

No, no, no, no, no, no, don't worry, Lil John. It's okay. I was saying shut up to somebody in the chat. You know who Neo is?

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, I was telling him to shut up.

Okay.

All right. Uh, $2.79 Canadian from Serenity Serpent there on YouTube says, "Uh, don't let the creeps get you down. Embrace it. W us." Nope. Nope. Not at all. If anyone's got any evidence for Jesus or Paul, I want to hear from you. Come on up. The request button should be right about there or down there. Again, if you are watching and you are a bibleelieving Christian, if you are a bibleelving Christian, I'm going to put the verse up here courtesy of a lopnote. You should thank him for even having this verse up here. First Peter 3:15 says, "Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have, but do this with gentleness and respect." In other words, first Peter 3:15 says you should always be prepared to give a defense of why you believe what you believe when questions to always give a defense of why you believe what you believe when questioned or demanded of you and do so respectfully. Respect. If you don't come up here and say, "Uh, hey, this is how I know that Jesus or Paul existed 2,000 years ago." If you die tonight, Jesus will look you dead in the eyes and say, "Depart from me. I never knew you. Get thee behind me, Satan. You are a lukewarm Christian. You said that you were hot. You said you were on fire. You're not even really cold. It's not like you're one of those atheists or something. You're a lukewarm Christian and I will vomit you out of my mouth. That's what it says in the Bible because you didn't take time out of your busy day busy day to give the guy who dresses like a cowboy on Tik Tok and YouTube evidence of Jesus or Paul 2000 years ago, you didn't do it. It says to do it. Says to always be prepared to do it. according to 1 Peter 3:15. If you don't come up here and give evidence for Jesus or Paul 2,000 years ago, you're letting God down. And when God gets sad, he unalivives a puppy, the same puppy twice. It's how it works. Sorry. Look it up. It's in the Bible. Look it up. It's in the book of Proverbs. All right. Uh, we got Cool Breeze here. Cool Breeze. Uh, what you got?

I just want to say, by the way, you invited me. I didn't invite myself.

Okay.

Just in case.

I I think a mod may have sent you an invite there. But what you got?

Why do you care about God's ways when you don't even believe in him?

Why do I hear about.

Why do you talk about Why do you talk about Jesus and Paul when you don't even believe in him? I mean, why does Tim Allen makes Santa Claus movies?

We're not talking about Tim Allen. We're talking about Jesus.

Well, people do all kinds of things that they don't like. They talk about all kinds of topics that they don't believe in. Like, people can talk about fiction. That's perfectly fine.

People like me time. It's foolish to talk about something you don't even believe in.

You can't talk about fiction.

And you left. Well, he ran because he didn't really have much to say.

That's how that goes. All right. All right. Uh, quick crash outs from Christians. Yeah. All right. Get on that boat. Uh, Gabe says, "Even if you don't think Jesus was God, it's crazy. You Where was it? You think he wasn't crazy way to spell wasn't a real person?" Well, come on up, Gabe. We'll talk about it. Does Gabe have evidence for Jesus or Paul? Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. Uh, what we're going to do is mute or rebuke. Here we go. We're going to going to go ahead and mute you for the for the live there. You can't comment on the live there on Tik Tok, but you can come up. I'm not running. I want to have a conversation with you, but you're going to have to request up or right down there. The buttons there, there, or there there on Tik Tok. If you're on YouTube, click the link in the chat and come on up. I want to hear from you. I bu cheesy McPaul. I'm here for it. Damn it. Get up, Gabe. Jared needs you to give it to you. All right. Listen. Let me tell you. First of all, uh phrasing. Second of all, what? All right. Uh, let's see now. Uh Oander says, "Love to chirp in the chat." All these Christians in the chat just chirp chirp chirp. Uh uh critic says I think Paul McCartney existed though. Makes sense to me. What's the puppy story, Jiren? Um I I don't know what to tell you. Uh, trash cat job or go o not really sure on either as I tried to show using will hardly prove a reliable result. Also, Eater, I can get accurate results as little as a hundred words per file. That's funny. Okay, I know that that's a lop note there with his AI picture there. That's not That's not a real person. Definitely not a real person. Puppy Story is an Exodiz 326 eater. I better Jesus Christ. Uh someone said in the chat Jesus didn't know how to write. Probably true, especially since he didn't exist. Uh Amodus Almighty there in the chat. I don't know, Bri. No telling. Amodus Almighty. If you're not following Amodus Almighty, you need to get your ass in gear. You need to get your ass in gear on TikTok there. Amodus Almighty. Definitely a good good streamer. Good streamer. But I'm telling you this. If you think that I am an [ __ ] No, I'm not saying he's an [ __ ] I'm just saying that like the reason people think I'm an [ __ ] is because I don't like like I don't put up with [ __ ] here on the live. He puts up with even less. Uh, what is going on? Trash cat job. So, really fast. Really fast. Really fast. Really quick.

Because there's really there's there's only really two options here.

Are you are you named Trash Cat Job there at the end because of Arrested Development or because of the band?

Uh, no. It's It's gobb like Gobstoppper actually, but.

Not like Job from.

Arrested.

And I'm guessing you don't know the band Go.

I don't know the band. I do know Job from Arrested, though.

But um.

Everyone sleeps on GO. Everyone sleeps on them. They were basically they're basically some 41 but like they didn't make it big. Does Does anybody not Somebody's got to know some go songs. Surely.

They have some bangers.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, Ellen, give up the grudge.

So, I am not a Christian. Um I am an atheist. I don't believe in God. But yeah, but um I do I did want like I've been watching you for a while and I do really love everything you say. It's just that whenever I try to research it, everything keeps popping up with this thing about Stylo with Eater, about how he said.

Who.

Um.

When you when you search for what?

I was just researching like everything about Jesus and Paul and you know, like I also like agree with the fact that they probably didn't exist. But.

You were researching things on Jesus and Paul and it said Stylo.

Yeah. I wasn't raised Christian. I was raised Muslim. But um.

Yeah, so I just wanted.

How did you get the styo from Jesus and Paul?

Because I was researching about Christ before Jesus the book.

Oh, you're just okay. About the book. Okay.

Yeah. Yeah. Cuz you do stillry, right?

Yeah. I mean that's.

You work with.

Yeah. That's two out of the nine chapters of the book, but Okay.

Exactly. Yeah. So, I was um researching it and the guy eater, I guess, one of the software developers, I'm not sure, he was just saying that it doesn't provide reliable results on less than 2,5 or a,000 to 2,500 words.

No. Uh we actually have him in a forum or in an email thread uh that says that he gets results as low as 100 words per file. So, no, that's like maybe some outdated kind of quote from him, maybe, but no. Yeah, I just it was just hard to find like any anything online about it. It just that was like the only thing I could see about what he said about it. Maybe it's outdated, but I would like to see like some updated. I would just like to see like more of this the like the work that was gone that went through to get to get this result basically.

Okay. Uh, you can research Christ before Jesus and actually watch us do three live demonstrations on MythVision's YouTube account if you want to see like live demonstrations of it.

I really I do like it and I I do learn a lot from everything you say.

Well, so then that would be the answer then. I mean we literally do live demonstrations of the.

Of the document about Peter.

No, Eater. Eater. I'm sorry.

About Eater.

Yeah. Yeah. Eater the software developer.

Okay. He's not a software developer. So, it's not you're already not really barking up the right tree, but okay.

I'm sorry. But, uh, well, thank you for clarifying that, though.

He's not a software of He's a mathematician. He's the guy behind Eater Delta and Eater Simple.

Like he's he's behind the the distance formulas that we that we utilize. Um, but I'd also like to point out that there's another book that's that goes over Paul and says that you can't even get seven authentic letters from Paul or anything like that. And this is from scholar Benjamin White. He uses the exact same software we use. And his book came out the next year.

It's almost as if we actually do know what the [ __ ] we're talking about.

Yeah. I I I never claimed that you didn't. I would just.

Yeah, I know. It's just that like people don't generally talk [ __ ] about Benjamin, but they trash us because they're like, "Oh, hey, these guys aren't scholars, so I can like maybe go in there and like say that they don't know what they're doing, but then like an actual scholar comes out with a book the next year using the same software that we do." And actually, believe it or not, being even less uh u transparent as to what he did. Like some people are like, "Oh, wow. they they they would um crop their images in order to get them into the book. We had to crop our images because the files would be huge. Like the images would be huge for the uh uh for the runs that we did the dendagramgrams. And they said, "Oh, well, the information is down there on the bottom." And they cropped that out because.

They wanted to hide it because they're trying to be like, like all like, uh, they want to lie to people. They want to deceive people. Benjamin White also cropped in many cases the bottom of his dingagramgrams. He's an actual scholar. Uh, and he himself, uh, he even says in his book that he uses a bag of words, however, whatever he chose some words to look at, and he has a certain amount of words. Like, what I'm saying is that we are even more transparent than actual scholars who have done the work on this kind of stuff, using the same software and coming to, coming to these conclusions.

So, it's, it's whenever you hear people, whenever you hear people say, "Hey, uh, they didn't actually do the work correctly, or they needed to have done it in a different way." These are people who are not data scientists that are saying this, and they are using outdated quotes in order to try to prop that idea up because they're buttthurt Christians or they're mythicists who are being left in the dust.

Those are the counterarguments that I usually see, actually, against this. It's usually just the same things. But also, it's Josephus. But I mean, you address that all the time, to be honest. And I think I know from watching your lives long enough that you know what he's written and what his history is.

No. Yeah. Right. But still, uh, anything else that you're running into or anything like that? Any questions?

No, I'm just, I'm just honestly here to learn. So, thanks for talking to me.

Yeah, no worries. Thanks for, thanks for coming up. Uh, that is a trash cat, uh, gobb apparently.

Yeah.

Uh, crash trash cat gob. [sighs] Do, do us a favor. Go listen to some. Go.

I will.

Uh, the, the, the best album is "Give Up the Grudge." Just check it out. No, no, no. Sorry. No, that's not the, that's the best song. The best album is "Foot in Mouth Disease."

Foot in Mouth.

Foot mouth disease.

Yes.

A lot of people have that.

Yeah. Check it out. Check it out. All right. Thank you very much. Whoa. What was that? Okay. All right. All righty. Like bacteria and good bacteria. All right, my bad. The covers of "Mr. Sandman" and "Pan Black" are very good. Oh, you have six of their songs. Oh, that's nice. Very nice. Yeah, they, yeah, it's, they're good. They're good. It, it's, it's basically, it's like a cousin. It's like a poor man's Sum 41 and a cousin to, um, who's that other group? Ship? Is it Billy Talent? Billy Talon. It's like, it's like a smaller Billy Talent or a poor man's Sum 41. You can use style in one word. I mean, you can, I guess. [laughter] I don't know why you would want to.

Amade Almighty says, "My life is a lie." What? What happened? What happened? Always thought you were between me and Storm. My life is a lie. What is he talking about? Oh, is he talking to [snorts] Oh, wait. Wait. What? Oh, I thought Queen was older than me. Talking about birthdays. Oh, okay. I was like, "What?"

All right. $11 are from Genus, uh, species says, "These combos are the perfect distraction while I'm running. I just hit 1,100 miles of cardio this year." Goddamn, I can't even hit like a mile. Uh, pretty much all of it while listening to CBJ. Thanks for all the knowledge.

Well, thank you very much and keep it up, man. Keep it up. Or woman, dude, chick, person. Keep it up. Human being, genus, species. There it goes. All right. Uh, turn it up, Bob. What you got?

Um, I was invited up. I kid you not. I just accepted it. But.

Yes, you did accept though. What you got for us? What were you saying in the chat? You must have been saying something in the chat.

I was saying like, you said you wanted evidence to Jesus.

Okay. Yeah. Let me see. You got three comments. The first one says, "The Bible also says to not argue. You're trying to debate and argue." Well, I'm asking for evidence. And the Bible explicitly says that you should always be prepared to give evidence of why you believe what you believe when questioned or demanded of you, and do so respectfully.

Yeah. Repeat that. Can you repeat that again? Someone just called me.

1 Peter 3:15 says, "You should always be prepared to give evidence of why you believe what you believe when questioned or demanded of you," depending on the translation, and do so respectfully. And [clears throat] then you said, "It is foolish." And your third comment was, "If you want evidence, search it up online." I mean, do you have, do you believe that Jesus or Paul existed 2,000 years ago?

Oh, yeah. I mean, I believe.

So, what was the evidence that convinced you that they did? I mean, just based off a simple little search. Um, Pilate.

Yeah, Pilate existed. Yeah.

Yeah. He, he wrote about him.

Pilate didn't write anything. We don't have anything from Pilate.

The, the Romans. Well, they, it's hell. Hold on. Let me see. Let me read it on, uh, he was crucified at Pilate.

Well, I mean, that's the, what the story says. Yeah. But we, we have evidence that Pilate exists, but we don't have anything from Pilate that says anything about Jesus. But if it's saying he was crucified at his order, then like, I would assume that, you know.

What? No, I mean, in the Amazing Spider-Man comics, Barack Obama meets Spider-Man. That doesn't mean that.

But we know that, you know, but we know that those stories are based and inspired by, you know.

And the what?

We know that those stories are based and inspired. So even though Obama is [clears throat] a real person. Yeah. Clearly they put him in there because of what? Because he's a real person. To make the fictional story sound like it belongs in this.

Well, it was just a simple crossover. It was just a simple crossover. Nothing major, nothing too, you know.

And that can't apply to.

Eminem exists, exists in the Marvel world. Like, yeah. Yeah. Like Spider-Man is obviously fake because it's got like a bunch of like superhuman abilities and stuff like that. And so when he meets Barack Obama, that doesn't make them real, right?

Oh, Spider-Man.

Yeah. Right.

Of course not.

Yeah. So Jesus is obviously fake because he's got a bunch of superhuman abilities, but when he meets Pilate, that doesn't make him real, right?

I get what you're saying. I do.

Yeah, that's, that's the point. Like, unless we have any evidence for Jesus specifically connecting them, then we can't just point to other people and be like, "Oh, hey, this background character who has like a few speaking lines is the reason why this entire story is real."

Well, how we know Jesus exists is, um, his teachings. It still, it still echoes to this day, you know.

Well, so do like Socrates and Plato and Aristotle. I mean, who cares? I mean, hell, there's some things from like Homer that still echo to this day. That doesn't really mean a lot.

But when, when people think about "treat thy neighbor," you want to be treated with, what, what comes to people's mind?

I don't know. The Old Testament because that's explicitly where he's quoting it from.

Well, a lot of people don't read the Old Testament. They jump right to the New Testament. Well, just because, well, that doesn't mean. Okay, just because someone is quoting something that came out prior to them, or or a book, a fictional book is quoting something that had been written before and people like the fictional story, that doesn't make the fictional story true. In, in the, in the story of Jesus, it has Jesus saying, "Treat, treat someone as you would your neighbor. Treat your neighbor as yourself." But this is something that is, this is something that's pulled from the Old Testament. The Old Testament was around before the New Testament, right?

Yep.

So, if someone is writing the New Testament and coming up with a fake character and just being like, "Oh, hey, let, let me just make him quote the Old Testament." That doesn't make the New Testament real, just because people like the New Testament character saying that, right? I mean, and the teachings, especially teachings that definitely didn't come from this person, it came from prior. That doesn't mean anything about him being real. And the only reason we're talking about teachings is because you're saying the reason why I think that he existed, the evidence for him is his teachings and how they still ring true. But I mean.

Harry Potter has some philosophy that people like. That doesn't make it true.

Star Trek is quoted sometimes.

Uh, do or do or do not. There is no try. That's from Yoda.

But people, people associate those things with like, you know, cartoons and.

Stuff.

With great power comes great responsibility. First time I heard that was, uh, it was said to Toby Maguire's Spider-Man from Sam Raimi. That doesn't, this doesn't mean Spider-Man's real, man. Like there can be teachings that persist from fictional stories.

But it's the fact that again, it's the message that.

Doesn't make the story real.

It's been the same message for two.

But that doesn't make this story real. That's what I'm saying. I mean, to, to you, it doesn't, but to a lot of people, and change their minds.

That's not how that works. History either happened or it didn't.

There's not like a, "Oh, it happened for me, but it didn't happen for." No. History either happened or it didn't. Either Jesus and Paul existed, either or they didn't.

I mean, not by those names. Not, not by those names, but they existed.

Well, the characters themselves. How did you determine that they actually existed? Whatever their names were.

What they taught is.

No, there's no evidence that they taught it. In fact, the thing, one of the things that you mentioned, like "treat, uh, uh, your neighbor as yourself." You, that was your first example, and that is something that is found in the Old Testament.

Man, body and soul. You know what I'm saying? Stuff like that. You know, love God.

Okay. That's in, that's in Wisdom of Sarak, which was written in 200 BCE.

At the end of the day, bro, you know, the Bible is just the inspired word, bro. It's not the.

I mean, it's not, it's not, it's just, it's just anything you see in the is inspired. You know what I'm saying? By people.

It says who?

Who?

What do you mean, "it is the inspired word"?

Says who?

Do you know what "inspired" means?

Yes. Says who?

It's not the written word.

Where did you get the idea that it was inspired? Where'd you get that from?

The book.

Do you read the Bible? Do you read the Bible? The, the Holy Spirit inspires those to write what they see.

It says who? Where does it say that?

In the, in the book.

Yeah.

Yeah. In the book. It says it's the best [ __ ] book ever. Just like the Book of Mormon says it's the truest book that's ever been written. Does that make it the truest book that's ever been written?

To some people, it does. It's objective.

That's not how that works. I asked you a question. Does that make it the truest book ever? Objectively, I'm not asking for your opinion. I'm asking, does that make it the truest book ever just because it says it's the truest book ever?

I haven't read it, so I wouldn't even know.

So, I say, regardless of answer, regardless of if you've read it or not, it's still the same question. If a book makes a claim, does that mean the book is automatically, if the book makes the claim to be perfect? Does that mean it's perfect? If the book makes the claim.

I might have to do my research to see if it's a perfect book.

Okay. Well, uh, let's see. I've got an image right here. This is, uh, from a book. It says, uh, "This is spoken by Story Man, Big and Little Elk, Eagle and Spider all told this story. So we know it is true." All right. So apparently the narrator of this book is citing his source as two different elk, an eagle, and a spider, and saying because they told him the story, it's true. Because it's in a book, does that make it true?

Not that book. No.

Okay. So, it, so, in other words, it depends on what book.

How did you determine that that book when it says that it's true?

Because evidence, testimony, and people.

Okay. So, where is the testimony from somebody who saw Jesus?

In the New Testament.

I ain't going to lie. We didn't, we don't, you know what I'm saying? Just based off letters. But I can't give you like.

Well, where does it say that any of it, where does it say that any of it is coming from somebody who met Jesus?

It's, it's all faith-based, bro. You don't got to believe.

So, in other words, in other words, your evidence for why the book I just showed you is fake, but the Bible is real is because of testimony. But there's no testimony there.

Yes, bro. It's a, it's a historic book, bro.

Okay, sweet. So, where in the New Testament is the testimony that from someone who saw Jesus? Where does, where does an author ever say, "I saw Jesus when he was here?"

You got John.

Nope. John can't write. According to Acts 4:13, he says he can't write. The book of Revelations makes it very clear that Jesus came to death.

No, Revelation. When do you think Revelation was written? Even from a Christian standpoint, when do you think it was written?

During a time of, um, well, them being crucified.

Who?

The Christians.

It doesn't say anything about the Christians being crucified.

I mean, they were, they were being persecuted, you know.

Okay. And what time do you think it was being written? According to the Christians, what time do you think that Revelation was written? Give me the decade.

Um, sometime between, uh, 40 or 50 AD. I don't know.

Uh, no, it's sometime around 80 to 90. So, um, nah, Jesus isn't in that book. But if it says that, you know, it is.

And also, even if it was from 40 or 50, like you said, Jesus wouldn't have been in that book because Jesus supposedly died in 30.

So Jesus doesn't have any, he doesn't have any scenes in Revelation. Man.

I'm asking you for what is, what is, what is a book in the Bible where the author says, "I saw Jesus in his earthly form when he was here during his earthly ministry."

That mean the, the Gospels? Nope. Nowhere in the Gospels does it ever say that. It never says that Matthew wrote Matthew. It never says that a disciple wrote Matthew. It never says that the Gospels, Matthew, was even written in the first century because it wasn't. Mark isn't even considered a disciple. Luke is, he's a, a traveling companion, an interpreter from Peter later on who joins the mission. Uh, Luke is a doctor, according to Christian tradition, who starts traveling around with Paul, who also wasn't a disciple and didn't meet Jesus in his earthly ministry. John never says it's written by John. Sort of kind of alludes to the idea that it may have been written prior to the people who were writing it taking it down. But then Acts comes around and says that John was illiterate. So I don't know what to tell you, man. Like, it's not written by anybody who ever saw Jesus. Never claims to be.

Well, that honestly, dude, in all honesty.

It sounds like you haven't really read the Bible, but you're trying to say that the Bible is somehow special and different from other books like the Book of Mormon or that book that I showed you that claimed that because somebody heard it from a from a spider, it's real.

No, man. It's not even that. It's just that at the end of the day, bro, it's all faith-based, you know? It's, it's.

But other religions have faith, right?

I mean.

They have faith that they're, they're correct, right?

Trust, right? Yeah, of course.

No, the Mormons have faith, right?

Yeah, but it's faith in what? Christ. That's, that's what it's all about. Okay. Message.

Okay. Well, unfortunately, your faith in Christ is not actually saying that Christ is real. Like, because other people have faith. The Scientologists have faith that L. Ron Hubbard dropped us into a [ __ ] volcano at some point in time. Like, it's, I mean, it's silly. It's nonsense. In fact, if you were to get everybody on this planet, if you were to get together, if you were to get together, everybody on this planet who say they have a faith in something. And you took a big red marker and you circled around the people who have the faith that you think is true, like you said, it's all about faith in Jesus Christ. The people who have faith in something else, the people outside that circle, the total amount would outnumber the people inside the circle you drew. Which means faith, statistically speaking, points you in the wrong direction.

Like.

Faith is literally something that you don't want to have because statistically speaking, it's going to lead you the wrong way because there are more people on this planet who have a faith in something that is that you think is [ __ ] than they than the people who have a faith in something that you think is correct.

That, that's just statistics. So, I, I don't know how to tell you any other way than faith is, if all you have is faith, that is [snorts] horrible. The only real way to determine whether or not your faith is pointing you in the right direction is evidence. And if you don't have any evidence, it's gone.

It ain't even that deep, bro. It's just a message that that Christ teaches. I don't find anything wrong with loving God with all your heart, mind, body, and soul. And treat your neighbor as you want to be. When Jesus calls a woman a dog because she's another ethnicity, is that a good thing?

At the end of the day, man, if you read.

Is that a good thing? Yes or no?

Who's you to a non- Was you referring to a non-Jewish woman? Correct.

He's referring to a Canaanite woman. And he says she's a dog because she's not Jew.

So, in the Old Testament, how did they see people that weren't Jewish?

That's not Old Testament. It's New Testament.

I'm just saying though, in the Old Testament.

Sweet. So, I'm asking you a question. Turn it up. Listen. Is it a good thing when Jesus called a woman who is a different ethnicity from him a dog? Is that a good thing?

Does it talking about? Does it talk about Jesus being like righteous and holy? Any turn it up. Okay. So, it sounds like so it sounds like sometimes Jesus says some shitty racist things and sometimes he says, he says some things that you think are really good. Now, most of the things that you listed that are really good just came from other.

Trying to say, right? No, what I'm trying to say is that ultimately your entire reason for why you think Jesus existed is because his teachings are awesome. But you already realize that sometimes his teachings are racist and you admitted they're bad. And then in other times, listen, it's not racist to say that someone who's a different ethnicity.

You said some racist things before. Are you racist?

I'm not saying that you should absolutely follow me and you definitely should not.

I'm just, I'm just saying though, you said things that you should have said out your mouth before. Correct. Turn it up. People still, people still associate themselves.

Listen, listen.

Did you or did you not.

Say that the belief in Jesus is actually based on his teachings.

Oh yeah. The stuff he says.

Sweet. So when he says racist [ __ ] are you like, "Yeah, that guy absolutely existed because I, I like the fact that he said that racist shit."

If you read it in context and study it.

The context is that he calls a Canaanite woman a dog.

Different. You know how the Bible can be interpreted differently from from people's different perspectives.

Not that it's interpreted. It's literally, it's all the story. There's one story about him meeting a Canaanite woman and he calls her a dog and it's not that big of a deal, man. It's like eight verses. It's not super deep. It's not like, oh, what's the [ __ ] point behind it? No, it's like eight verses and he calls a woman a dog. And he explicitly says that, uh, uh, "It is not good to give what is for the children, the food for the children to the dogs." Explicitly talking about her because she is not who he came for. He explicitly says that he did not come to help her on this planet because she's the wrong ethnicity. And then he calls her a dog. You think that was good?

Do I think it was good?

Yeah. I mean, you've already said no. So, I mean, do you want to like go back on your word and say it was good or say that it was racist?

I mean.

Clearly what I mean, I see what you're trying to do. You know.

It's racist. You can say it. I'll agree with you.

It's fine.

Is it really racist, though?

Yeah, it is. It's against an ethnicity specifically because they're the, the wrong ethnicity. And you're calling them a dog, which means you think that you're better than them.

Yeah. I think you're just missing the whole point of him even saying what he said.

Okay. Have you even read it?

Yeah, it's in the gospel, bro. He was.

Sweet. Yeah. All stories of Jesus are in the gospel, too.

So, what's, what's the woman asking for?

Um, again, Jesus.

What's the woman asking for? Since you read it.

Um, drink from the, drink from the well of eternal life. And she said, "Stay."

Nope. Wrong woman.

Wrong woman. That's the woman who has multiple husbands.

I'm pretty sure those are the same people.

It's not. That's the Samaritan woman.

You know though, I think it's crazy. You know.

It's pretty obvious that you haven't read the Bible and you're trying to act as if you did.

I've read it, but I don't.

Okay. So, tell me about this story as much as you do. You're telling me I'm. You have apparently read it enough to know that I'm reading it out of context, but you can't even tell me the story.

Because you are, dude. Like this.

I'm reading it out of context. Then tell me what the context is.

I think it is more mental.

Tell me the context.

To, to tell me the context.

Tell me also be an atheist.

Sweet. Tell me the context.

The context of what, sir? Because you.

Context of the story because you're telling me I'm reading it out of context. Tell me the correct one. Because the Samaritan woman, right?

It's not. They're not Samaritan. You've literally forgotten what I told you because you haven't read the book and you're trying to speak out of your ass.

I read it, bro. I read it years ago, bro.

Well, again, it's not a Samaritan woman. Would you like to try again?

Go ahead, bro. Try it again.

No, I'm, I'm asking you. Would you like to try again? Would you like to try to give me the context to this story that you don't even remember what story we were talking about? Like, you know good and well that I'm reading it out of context, but you can't even remember the facts about the story. It's only like eight verses.

No, I don't remember the story, bro.

You've never read it?

No, I said I remember the story, but I. Okay.

I don't.

Uh, what type, what ethnicity is the woman?

I've said it about five or six times.

You said Canaanite, right?

Did I?

I don't know, bro. You don't know, but you know that I was reading it out of context.

I mean.

You can admit that you've never read the story. It's fine. We all know you have.

How can I? So, you mean to lie and say, "I never read it. I've read the story. I don't remember it, bro. How you going to make me?" Come on, bro. Stop it. I told you I read the story.

You, you don't remember it, but you know that I'm reading it out of context?

I don't, I don't, I don't study, you feel me? I don't study all this stuff, bro.

Okay. Well, I do. And I'm, I'm the one who's reading it out of context.

I think that is a mental illness, bro. If you, if you study the book, believe, bro.

It's a mental illness to study the Bible.

Yes, I debunk people. It is mental illness.

I'm not debunking you. I'm not debunking you at all. I'm telling you what's in there and you have no idea what's in there.

I do know what's in there, bro.

Okay, then what was she asking for? What was she asking for?

Your whole.

You bas your whole life.

What was she asking for? What was she asking Jesus for?

That, that in itself is a mental illness, brother. What was she asking Jesus for?

Well, she asking for eternal life.

No. No.

Man, you don't know anything about your Bible, do you?

I don't know anything about my Bible.

That's very true.

I know about, I know about the New Testament. I know about.

This is explicitly in the New Testament, diction.

You know what I'm saying? But at the end of the day, man.

You already admitted it's in the gospel.

At the end of the day, too, though, bro, you know, I, I, I follow the teachings. You know, the true neighbors want to be treated. So when he teaches his disciples, when he teaches his disciples that he is not there for these particular people.

You know what I'm saying? Like he don't go around teach what, whatever you trying to say he's teaching.

So what does he say to his disciples in the story?

Man, your chat acting up, bro. They overly angry, bro.

Hey, don't worry about it. Just tell me about the Bible there, Christian.

You got some fans for real, bro. Sweet. Tell me about your Bible that you very clearly never read.

Disciples in the comment section. For real. For real.

Wait. Tell me about the Bible you've never read.

Okay. I never read the Bible. All right.

That's very true.

I read, I said I've read the Gospels, bro. I read.

Well, this is a story in the Gospels. Tell me what he tells his disciples in this story.

Um.

Or just say I don't know because I've never read it.

I can't. How are you going to tell me to say something like.

I said you can, you can, you can either tell me what he says to his disciples or you can.

Bro, you don't know what I've read, bro.

That's fine. That's fine. Then just tell me what he said.

I can't remember what he said clearly, my guy. Clearly, it's clear as day.

Can you remember any of the story?

Do I remember any of the story?

Yeah, give me the gist of the story. Don't, don't, don't give me the exact quote. Just give me the gist of what happens in the story. What happens in the story?

What book?

You don't even know what book it is.

Cuz, what book? Like, what book are you talking about? Which gospel? Which gospel?

Matthew.

You don't even know. You don't even know what book it is. And you're telling me that I am taking it out of context. And you don't even know what book it's in.

I'm talking about certain verses, my guy. You taking out of context. Come on now.

I'm, no, I'm just taking this story out of context is what you told me.

Nah, you taking verses out of context.

So, does he call her a dog?

Of course he calls her a dog if it says it right there. Do you think that there's a context in which calling a woman a dog is a good idea?

Is there a right way to call a woman a dog?

Well, where.

I'm trying to figure out. I'm trying to remember the story. That's all. Bro.

You said and I quote, "Of course he called a woman a dog." All right. Is there a right way to call a woman a dog?

Let me see. Uh, what verse is this?

Turn it up. You said you already admitted that he did.

What? What verse?

So, I want you to answer the question.

What verse is that?

Listen, you already, you already admitted that he absolutely called a woman a dog, but now you're saying he may not have. Is that what you're saying?

Is that what you're saying?

A dog, bro. Because now think about it. You said he didn't call them. You're right. He didn't call the woman at the well a dog. He called a different woman a dog.

Sweet. Well, you said he absolutely called her a dog. So, are you now saying that it's possible he didn't?

No, you're right. He did call her a dog. Yeah. It. Now, so now my question is, is there a right way to call a woman a dog?

Of course not. It's not okay to do it at all.

Okay. Well, then there we go. So, what context do I need to put into this where it's bad? It's already bad.

If I recall, he praised the woman afterwards, too.

He what?

He praises the woman like.

Oh, okay. So, as long as as long as you tell somebody a compliment, you can call them a dog first, right? Is that how that works? I mean, at the end of the day, Jesus is portrayed to be holy, you know. So.

Well, you already admitted you already admitted that it's not a good thing to do.

I don't think he's racist. I think it's righteous.

Okay. Why does he call the woman a dog? Why?

Why does he call her a dog? Because [clears throat].

Because why?

The fact that, if I'm correct, if I remember correctly.

Why?

She's, she's non-Jewish.

So, that would be because she's not the right ethnicity, right?

Yes.

Which would be racist, right? I mean, in today's, today it would be considered racist. Yes. Today it was racist. Was it not racist then? Wasn't really a race. Wasn't racism. Racism wasn't real.

No, it wasn't like it was real. I'm not saying.

Okay. So, was it really racist back then?

Was it racist back then?

It wasn't a, it wasn't, it didn't play a big role as it did.

It's explicitly a big role. That's why he's ignoring her. So, did racism just not exist back then? Uh, races were exclusive to, to being saved, bro. Only to the Jews.

So, was, was racism, did it exist last? Did it exist back then? Did it?

I think you're going to say, did it exist less then? I think that's more of an answer, bro. It existed less then. It wasn't as big of a deal as it is today.

So, did racism exist back then?

Uh, most likely.

Okay. Is this racist? I mean, we, we going to stay stuck on this. Yes or no? It's racist. It's racist.

Okay. So, therefore, you got to understand the story from Jesus. Okay. Now, listen. A specific race, though. And in itself, it's not racist.

Yeah. That in and of itself is racist. [laughter]

But, but, but if you read the Bible.

You're just doubling down with more racism. Oh, no, no, no. He's not racist because he's only, he only likes one race.

But he comes from.

He's not racist. He just, he's just a supremacist. That's, that's.

Y'all pushing it, man. You pushing it, bro. Stop.

So, so you've admitted. Listen, listen. So number one, you've admitted it was racist. Number two, you admitted that he calls a woman a dog specifically because she's another race or another ethnicity.

Which is racist, as you just stated multiple times. So you think that, and you admitted that Jesus absolutely did call a woman a dog and that there's not a good way to do so. You are actually, this what you're experiencing right now is called cognitive dissonance. It's when you realize that what you believe doesn't make a lot of sense and so you're, you're, you're trying to fight in your head.

What we're witnessing right now is a crash out because you are trying to fight this.

You know what I'm saying?

You're trying to fight it.

Yeah. We're witnessing the crash out because you were trying to fight this. It's cognitive.

It's not that deep, man. Look after this, right? You know what I'm, I'm going to continue my life. My God. Like that deep.

So if it's not that deep, you should be able to say there were racist things that Jesus said that we shouldn't actually listen to. Can you agree to that?

There were racist things that Jesus said that we shouldn't listen to.

Is that true?

Of course. Because at the end of the day.

So if Jesus says racist things that we can't, we shouldn't listen to, and sometimes he says some good things every once in a while, that's perfectly fine. But does that make him real?

I think so.

You think it makes him real? Because a book has him saying racist stuff.

Evidence in this research that you've done. Some people can come to the conclusion that Jesus is real. Some people come to.

So what evidence did, so what evidence did you find that said that he was real? What evidence did you find to show that this racist piece of [ __ ] was real?

Testimony. My own testimony.

Did you exist 2,000 years ago?

You said what? Did you exist 2,000 years ago?

No, but the, um, the stories do.

Okay, cool. And you think that you, you think that you interacted with the same Jesus that was around 2,000 years ago?

Correct.

If the teachers are, you know, legit.

So, not if. I'm asking you a question. Yes or no? Do you think that you interacted with the same Jesus that was walking around 2,000 years ago?

Of course.

Okay. Of course. All right. Fine enough.

I don't.

I want you to answer a question. Turn it up. It's a yes or no question. Are you Jewish?

Am I Jewish?

Mhm.

Me?

Yep.

Am I Jewish?

Yeah.

What particular tribe?

Tribe of Judah.

Tribe of Judah. And what do you call yourselves?

Um, I'm Hebrew Israelite.

Ah, there it is. So, you're not actually Jewish.

And you think you're interacting with the same person who didn't come for the Jewish, who only came for the Jewish people, and somehow you have a testimony where you're in like a relationship with this guy.

Relationship, man. Relationship is just simply treating people as you want to be treated. Is this.

Sweet. But you have a relationship with somebody who you said only came for Jewish people and you're not Jewish then.

Man, Jesus came for the world, my guy. He said.

No, he didn't. You said he only came for Jewish people. You said that earlier.

John 3:16 says it.

In fact, he explicitly stated in this particular text.

What does the father? The father said what? He sent the world the son into the world what to knock it. So what does that mean?

Okay, cool. So again, you just said you just said.

That in this verse.

Jesus says that he only came for Jewish people. You confirmed this. You also said that he was racist. But yet you have a relationship with a racist person and you follow this racist person and you think that he likes you and you're not Jewish.

That's weird.

Bro. How did you determine that? How did you determine he likes you?

Because in the beginning of the Bible, it says.

You already said that he only came for the Jewish people.

Word was with God and the and the word was God. You know.

Sweet. But you said that he was, you said that he was racist and only came to Jewish people.

Did, did you say that?

You said what?

Did you say that he only came for the Jewish people? Is that what you said?

Yeah, but you know, as Jewish people. No, listen. It's a yes or.

Sweet. So, he only came for the Jewish people and you're not Jewish. So, I guess he didn't come for you.

Initially, he didn't come for me, but again.

Where does he, where does he end up saying where does he end up saying that he, he's now going to go for you? Where does, where does he say that?

Because John 3:16 like, like, let me, let me talk, bro. Can I talk?

John 3:16, my guy.

Where does he say anything about non-Jewish people? If you read in the beginning of the Bible, well, not the Bible, the, um, the gospel, it makes it very clear that the word was. John 16 is definitely not.

The word was God. And then he granted those that who believe in him.

Have, you know, yeah.

Sweet. And whosoever applies to what group?

The Jewish people. The people he explicitly said he therefore, but it.

Also says, no, neither Greek nor Jew. Oh, yeah. No. Yeah. No Gentile. Yeah. Yeah. So think about different verses though.

Yeah. Different verses. You see how you got overcooked at this point, right?

I mean, listen, bro. At the end of the day, man.

You see how you got cooked for about 31 minutes on this live?

Cooked for what, bro? Listen, man.

Cooked for the fact that you never read your Bible.

Bro, on a on a real, bro.

No, I don't read my Bible, boy. Cuz you know why?

Because it's stupid. And you actually have at least some brain cells that are fighting.

It's the, it's the message. Hey, bro, stop coming at me sideways, bro. Have some respect, bro. Cuz at the end of the day, bro.

I don't respect you at all. You've been saying a whole bunch of dumb [ __ ] is demonstrably false.

Walking around with a mental illness, my guy. Talking about other people and their beliefs. My [ __ ] is you cool? Stop coming at me sideways, dude. You're miserable.

Your beliefs, you can't even support them. You can't even tell me what your beliefs are.

You're miserable, my guy. This is what you do every day, my [ __ ]. You're miserable. You're not happy with your life. You're not content. I'm pretty happy.

You happy doing this every day? No, you're not, bro. You, you're trying to make yourself happy by trying to find meaning in your virtual ass life.

No.

Come on now, girl.

Nah.

You're worthless, my [ __ ].

Sweet.

This is what you do. This is what you do for your with your with your your freedom.

Is this what you do with your free will?

You come up here for 33 minutes to get spanked and then crash out here and try to debunk Christians all day. Yeah, you mentally ill, man.

Well, it was pretty easy to debunk you.

I couldn't care less if you could, bro. But there's other [ __ ] out here that will really go back and forth with you. I really don't care, my [ __ ]. You have, you were up here for 33 minutes.

Your ass is slow. Yeah, bro. Wasting your time cuz you're a [ __ ] dumbass.

Thank you, babe. My wife cooking for me, man. I gotta go. You got a wife, my guy. You got a wife? Got you got kids?

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

To them real quick. Real quick.

I'll go say hi to your mom here. I'll go say hi to your mom later on.

System and [ __ ] you [ __ ].

Oh. Oh, there it is. There it is. There's that Christian love. [laughter]

Ah, that's funny. All right. All right. Yeah. So, yeah, he just decided to crash out there at the end. All right, [laughter] that's funny. Okay, so uh I want to go get to some super chats really fast.

Let's see. $2 there from Dian Masks says, "I heard it's your birthday. Keep up the good work." It's not. It hasn't been for about a month. Uh, two pounds from Neptune Colt says, "Happy Goddamn it. Happy birthday. Bless T. I don't know what that is. Celestial lesbian penguins." What? Uh, $2 Canadian from Rebel Apostate says, "Yay, hold their context." Uh, Christian queef to the fire. Yes. Sometimes, sometimes you just got to hold the Christians to the fire and they will show you, uh, how much they really know and who they really are. Uh, we've got a couple people coming up here. Uh, the first person is, and by the way, if you're on YouTube, you can send a super chat and I'll read it out loud and respond to it. Uh, or you can click the link in the chat and come up here on, uh, TikTok. TikTok is how I take guests. I do not take guests on YouTube because that's impossible. Uh, but, uh, if you want to come up here on TikTok, perfectly fine. I want to have a conversation with you. I want to hear from you, but you're going to have to click the link and and come up here on TikTok or send a super chat and I'll read it. What is going on? Uh, Chitaara.

Chitaara, are you there?

What?

Hello?

Uh, it's really quiet.

Can you hear me?

Uh, barely. I don't know how I got.

Uh.

Let me down and let me back and and bring me back up cuz something's wrong with my phone.

Um, we might be. Can you guys hear?

Hello.

Can you hear me?

Uh, I mean, I can hear you, but.

I'm a little too low.

It sound. Well, yeah. Okay, you're fine. All right. Go ahead. Go ahead.

Let me see. I got an earpiece. Let me put my earpiece in. He brought me up. I'll be right back. Let me see. Let me see. I got a earpiece. I'm try to put my earpiece in. Maybe I'll be a little louder to ask the question. Let me see.

Uh, while Chitaara's uh getting everything going over there, we got $2 there from Zeno Lud says, "Yor isn't happy when we abuse quit for chats." Uh, and then $1.99 from Wex 7 says, "Did rabbis create the New Testament? Who did?" Uh, no. Uh, rabbis did not create the rabbis did not create the New Testament. Um, you would have like, um, people from Asia Minor. The first person to publish a gospel is a guy from Copes, which is like on the coast of Black Sea, uh, in present day Turkey, but it's back then it was called Bithynia and Pontus. That was the province, uh, there within Rome. It's in Asia Minor. Um, and his, his name is Marcion. He's from Cynes, uh, or he, well, yeah, he publishes and, uh, that's actually a topic that Matthew and I are going over. We believe now that he actually wrote, uh, wrote Evangeline there. So, Evangeline would be written.

There in, uh, like late 130s, early 140s, published in 144. [cough and clears throat] Uh, but, uh, you're back. Sound better.

Yes.

Okay. Sound better?

Uh, yeah, pretty close. Okay. What you got? Uh, so when Paul was on the road to Damascus, the Bible said, uh, the spirit of the Lord knocked him to the ground and he said, "Who are you?" So, does that mean he saw Jesus or did he see a spirit?

I mean, I've [laughter] it's just a story.

It's a story, but it says that he was going to kill Christians, like persecute Christians and cut their heads off.

Whoa.

And, okay, there's a number of things you can't say on on TikTok, but

Oh. Oh, I'm sorry.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that that's the idea is that he was persecuting Christians or something like that. Um, and he ends up he ends up having this Damascus road conversion and whatnot. I mean, obviously he didn't meet Jesus specifically because this is well after Jesus is supposedly crucified and ascended and everything like that, you know, according to the story. Um, but it is interesting because Jesus actually ends up quoting from a text called the Bakai, uh, which is about Dionysus, the Greek god of wine and partying, talking to his someone who is persecuting his church there on earth, and he says, "It is hard for thee to kick against the bricks." And this is something that, uh, actually shows up in in Paul's conversion story as well. So, it's pretty obvious that this didn't actually happen, that they're pulling it from something else.

Oh, yeah. You took the words out of my mouth. That's just exactly what I was gonna say. It is comp is, uh, compatible to a lot of stories that I heard. So, I wasn't I wasn't coming up to like, um, you know, refuse to hear your argument because I mean, I, I mean, I believe he never existed too, right? I just was

Oh, yeah. I mean, so there's a lot of there's a lot of really knowledgeable people there in the chat and everything like that. Uh, and if if you're interested at all, uh, a little bit of a shameless plug here. I haven't plugged it today, but I got a book on the topic. Uh, Christ Before Jesus. Me and my co-author, what we do is we take a look at the New Testament in Greek and compare it with itself and other things in Greek and try to find out when it was written. And we see that it was written in the second century. And so some of these different things like you kind of found about like Paul and and how, uh, there's things that are clearly being pulled from to make these stories. Uh, that's this is really explained by the fact that this is a second century mythology that is being written, like they're pulling from different things to try to make the Jesus and Paul story.

Make it. Yep.

Yeah.

So, do you have the link to your book?

Oh, yeah, the link is in, uh, my bio here on on TikTok, and it's on the YouTube profile. The ebook is just $3. There is. We're not going to be

Okay.

Like trying to charge a crazy price for it. There is a print version and an audiobook version, but the ebook is just three bucks.

Okay. Yeah, I'll get it. Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Yeah, absolutely. And feel free to send a DM or send an email. Our email address is there in the in the book as well. Uh, so you can send an email or send a DM if you have any questions and hang around because there's a lot of people in the chat that are really knowledgeable. We have a Discord and stuff like that where people talk about this kind of stuff. So, yeah, you you'd probably really enjoy it.

I will. I'll be in the chat. Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Yeah, absolutely. That was Doug's there. [music] W's forara there. [applause] Chitaara sounds like a cool Mortal Kombat character, too. That sounds wins. Oh, that'd be that'd be awesome.

Flawless [snorts] victory. Fatality.

All right. Uh, Hasham, what you got?

Um, hey, how's it going? Chitaurus from Thundercats. Is that just for Oh, okay. I didn't watch Thundercats. Sorry. I'm not Hello. I'm not gonna say it. I'm not gonna say it. No, actually, I'm pretty sure I'm pretty sure my wife did watch Thundercats, though. When she comes in, I think she

It is. It is from one of those shows, I think.

Yeah, I think I think I think it's like the

I think so.

Yeah.

Like what did the the one you just said? I think what's the name? Uh, some cats, something, some some sort of cats or whatever. Anyways, uh, Hashan, what you got, man?

Yes. Uh, I I I don't I don't like, uh, I'm not going to make any strong assertions. Uh, I've heard, uh, you're live on YouTube as well. And, um, so this is, I would like to learn as well if I'm wrong, but I'm not Christian, first of all. I'm Muslim, actually, just for the record.

And, um, so I do believe Jesus existed. Uh, the the thing is, I don't the reason why I was curious, uh, as to like talking to you was to know what do you think about the Romans writing about Jesus? Cuz as far as I've known, and I may be wrong, the Romans like, for the crucifixion, the ro there's like Roman accounts of that or something, or at least one.

Why would you be arguing for that? You don't think that Jesus was crucified?

Yeah. I I was wondering if you would bring it up because I

I mean, that makes your argument worse. How come?

As a Muslim, do you believe that Jesus was crucified?

No, I do not.

Okay. So, then why are you using any kind of Roman record of his crucifixion as evidence for him?

Uh, I'll tell you why. Because, well, this is kind of irrelevant, but, um, uh, I don't believe he was crucified, but I've heard that there are Roman accounts, uh, claiming that they saw Jesus as being crucified. And, uh, I actually don't have a problem with that because, uh, the idea is that in Islamic, this is because you probably you're not aware of the, uh, like Quran and what it says, because in the Quran, it doesn't necessarily say. We do have room for the Romans actually seeing that happen because in the Quran, it says, "So they say, so it says that they did not kill him and they did not crucify him. However, it was shown to be that way or it was, you know, shown as such." So, in other words, magic. So, in other words, in order to in order to use these people talking about how Jesus existed, you have to

No, not talking because the Quran, like other places.

No, no, no. Listen, listen, listen. [clears throat]

Yes. Go on.

Was Jesus physically crucified? Yes or no?

No, he wasn't.

Okay. So, in other in in order for people to somehow write about Jesus being crucified, these Roman people who you're alluding to, uh, you have to appeal to magic. The idea that he was portrayed as this, but he wasn't actually crucified.

Can I can I just, uh, I'm sorry for cutting you off, but, uh, I just I just want

That was it.

Oh, that was it. Okay, that's fine. Uh, it's the thing is, I I need to explain the like, cuz you need to understand like the Quranic position, right? Cuz, um, I know

Position is that he wasn't crucified. So unless you can somehow explain to me how all these people who are from the Romans and say that he was crucified, but they're talking about him really, but he wasn't crucified.

Right, but like, uh, look, that's not the entire Quranic position. The Quranic position is that it was shown to be that way through the Romans.

Okay, cool. By what? By way of what?

By God. By God.

Yeah, okay. That's my point. You're

Exactly.

You don't get it. You're appealing to magic. In other words, I'm not appealing to magic.

Yes, you are. Listen, listen. You don't understand. You don't understand. You don't understand. No. No. You are appealing to people who are saying that he got crucified as evidence that he existed, but wasn't crucified. And the only real way that the only real way that you explain away that is by saying, well, there was magic involved that somehow made them tr like tricked them into thinking he was crucified. So, that that way I don't have to accept this part of what I'm trying to show you, but I can accept this other part of what I'm trying to show you. It's magic. That's all you're doing.

Okay. Can I just ask you like two questions? Number one, how is this relevant to what you do and what I'm asking you? Because we're talking about the existence of Jesus. Number one.

Number two.

Yeah. And you appeal to somebody who is talking about Jesus in a way that you don't believe actually happened.

No, I do believe that.

By the way, by the way, uh, who is Chitaara?

From Thundercats.

Okay. So, she she knows Thundercats. I didn't know Thundercats. It sounded like a It sounded like someone from Mortal Kombat or something.

I think it is a cheetah.

Is it a like a main character?

Is it a bad guy or a good guy?

It's a girl.

Well, well, yeah. I just say guy in general. Is a good. So, she's good.

Well, I'm, I don't think I'd be like, is she a bad girl or a good girl? Like, that's really I can't say that. I just say. Anyways. All right. All right. Thank you. Thank you, by the way. All right. So, again, um, okay.

Yes. I

Look, you're appealing to you're appealing to a story that says that Jesus was crucified, and you're saying,

Yes, you said that already.

"This means I'm going to use this, but he wasn't crucified."

Okay, thank you. Uh,

And I want you to explain to me without appealing to magic how this is a viable argument.

Why do you want me to, uh, why do you want me to explain something on your terms? Uh, let me just go.

Because if you appeal to magic, then I'm going to appeal to magic for the Book of Mormon, which says that it's. No, listen, listen, listen.

I can't. You're You're not

Shut the [ __ ] up, dude. You got to learn how to be quiet when the host is talking. All right. I am telling you why I am I'm answering your [ __ ] question. You said, "Why do I have to agree on your terms?" Because your terms, your terms include [ __ ] that would automatically make everything possible. Everything is possible. Jesus could be a velociraptor who wasn't crucified because I've got a magic book that says that that's the case. I don't know how to tell you that, man. I I don't know how to break it down any further for your infantile mind that if you appeal to magic, it opens it up to all forms of magic. The Book of Mormon says it's the truest book on the planet that's ever been written. That surpasses both the Bible and the Quran. Okay, I guess the Quran is wrong then because the Book of Mormon says it. I You see how dumb that is? So, please, without magic, show me how you can viably use these, uh, Roman, uh, um, citations or these Roman quotes as evidence for Jesus. It's not going to go anywhere because it's not actually as if they're actually talking about Jesus. Anyways, if you want me to argue like a like you were a Christian,

I show you now my friend, my name.

Please, but we're not going to appeal to we're not going to appeal to magic for it.

Yes, we're not. We're not. Can you please sum your name? Can you please sum your name? York.

I want to be

Yurub. Okay. Yeah. Yurub, my friend, please. Uh, you you need to let me explain. Uh, you're just misrepresenting my position unintentionally. I'm not saying it's intentionally.

Please just explain. Explain it.

Right. From a theist perspective. From a theist perspective, my position is not depending upon magic. My position is depending upon

Okay, then just Okay, then cut to the Jesus Christ, dude. I gave you one job and one job only. I don't want to hear about your theology. I don't want to hear about. Okay, if you if you unmute when I mute you until I'm done talking, you will be disconnected. All right, you're God. These people are annoying. And by these people, I mean fanatics, these fundamentalists for whatever religion that they actually belong to that just appeal to magic and can't wrap their head around the idea that sometimes magic isn't going to work. It's not going to work whenever we're talking about whether or not someone existed. Dude, it's this is ridiculous. Okay. Now, please, for the love of all that is holy, tell me, without appealing to magic, why you can use why you feel like you can use the Romans who talk about him being crucified as evidence for him, but not crucified. Not appealing to magic. I can say this because of whatever is within the bounds of the text of the Quran. So, if my basis was just magic, I could just make up anything. But as long as Go ahead. Thank you. Thank you. As long as it fits the text of the Quran, that is my that is my standard. And, uh, that is my position.

How did these Romans talk about him being crucified when he wasn't crucified?

What do you mean? Oh, yeah. It's because, uh, well, that's that's a separate question. We're not

That's the That's the question I'm asking.

Look, listen. You think with your brain. I'm going to ask you. Think with yours. I don't know of any other part of your body that can think.

My body. I'm not being disrespectful.

Just answer the question, man. How did the Romans talk about

How did the Romans talk about Stop giving the [ __ ] meta, dude. You keep talking about what I'm saying? Like, just just answer the [ __ ] question. How did they talk about Jesus being crucified when he wasn't crucified? Give me the answer. God damn it. I sent you an invite to unmute. unmute and just answer the question. Stop talking about

A theist from a theist perspective. God doesn't. God can do that anyhow. Like he do that anyway.

So, you appeal to magic. There there he goes. God damn it. They don't understand what that means. They have [clears throat] no idea what it means. Absolutely ridiculous. Okay. Uh, let's see. There's actually an MK character called Natara. Natara. Natara is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like a vampire type character. She's voiced by Megan Fox. I didn't know that. All right. Uh, let's see. We've got, uh, Truth Over Tea.

What's up, man?

Hey. Hey. I'm a little limited on time. I tried to come up earlier for my short break here, but I'll do what I can. I wanted to ask you about your, um, your Marcionite view. Um, if I heard you correctly, you said that Marcion is the author. I don't know if you said of just the Gospels or the entire New Testament.

Um, I mean, kind of depends. So, I would say that he's the author of Evangeline, which is the first gospel, uh, to be published. This is in 144. It serves as the basis for like, uh, Mark, which I mean, Marcion's name was pronounced Marchon. It literally means little Mark. Um, we also have Luke, which utilizes Evangeline between chapters 4 and 22 pretty much directly with only slight edits. Matthew pulls from some of its, uh, information and try it's like a reputation. It's written as a reputation to Marcion. John, of course, is just after Matthew and Luke and still technically pulls from it, but not like that much. Um, the Pauline epistles are first published by Marcion in 144 in their earliest iterations, which are much smaller than what we have today in the canonical versions. So, later editions are made to make the canonical versions, but still, there is a Marcionite core. Uh, so to say that Marcion wrote the Gospels is not true, but he did create the IP that started it, if that makes sense. Um, and you could kind of say that he wrote or published like some of what is in the Pauline epistles today. He is indirectly slashdirectly responsible for everything in the New Testament as we have it today, but not everything is direct. Most of it's indirect.

Okay. So, when you say publish,

Are you are you stating like he first like

Comes out with it? He he he publishes the first New Testament canon in 144. Yeah.

Okay. So, there were no gospels. So, you're prior to him wrote this?

Post-Decretay. He did this.

No, Decretay is late second century. It actually is aware of like first Timothy and second Timothy, and first Timothy mentions antithesis, which is a book from Marcion, as well as Gnosticism, which is a second century concept. Uh, second Timothy actually mentions Crescens, the scribe of Polycarp, and also mentions Polycarp Carpos there at the end of the text. Uh, Crescens dies in 180. Uh, so it's pretty clear that the Decretay is something from the late second century. That's actually when it was dated initially. It's only here recently that they shoved it early, but there's no evidence whatsoever for the Decretay being early.

Okay. Cuz like consensus is between 70 and 120.

Yeah. Yeah. [ __ ] no. Uh, no. It's aware of first Timothy, and first Timothy again mentions things from Marcion, a book from him, and Gnosticism, which would show up like post-144. So, in no way, shape, or form could the Decretay be prior to 120. Does that make any sense?

Is this in your Christ Before Jesus book?

Yeah, we actually go over the Decretay.

Okay.

It's under a section called "What the Decretay Didn't Say."

Okay. Gotcha. So, uh, I guess we don't have any manuscripts of Marcion. So,

Uh, yeah, we might. Uh, P69, aptly named, uh, is actually considered to either be the Gospel of Luke or Marcion's Evangelium because again, the material is the same thing. Um, but yeah, it could actually be from him. So, we don't know.

Yeah. But as of now, we don't have that. Like, there's some people that say that that could be, but that would be a third century. I guess that that doesn't necessarily make it, uh, impossible.

Literally, all manuscripts of the New Testament is third century.

Not P-52.

P-52 is the last is a fragment, not a manuscript, and is also the last year of the second century. So, okay.

The last year of the second century.

Correct.

John Ryland's fragment. I thought that was 125 to 150.

Nope. It is, uh, over at the John Ryland's Research Institute and Library at the University of Manchester. Uh, let me see if I can pull this up here. Maybe not. I don't know. Uh, but [clears throat] nevertheless, it is something that is now dated according to John Ryland's Research Institute. Uh, it is now dated to, um, it is now dated to, uh, 200.

So, it's it's changed from the previous view.

Uh, correct. There is P-52 there at the University of Manchester's website. There you can actually read this. This is what I've been reading for the last two years now. Says, "Widely regarded as the earliest portion of any New Testament writing ever found, it provides us with invaluable evidence on the spread of Christianity in the in provinces of the Roman Empire in the first centuries of our era. The first editor, in other words, the first person to come out with the information about it, dated the fragment to the first half of the second century, between 100 to 150, which is where you're getting your date. The date was estimated paleographically by comparing the handwriting with other manuscripts. Uh, what this site used to actually say is that paleography is not an exact science and requires, uh, documents, a number, a large number of documents to come in, most of which are administrative. Uh, so anyways, it says recent research points to a date near to 200, but there is as yet no convincing evidence that any earlier fragments from the New Testament survive."

P52 dates to the last year of the two of 200 or last year of the second century. Um, and I would say that because it's of the Gospel of John, we date the Gospel of John to about 160, 165. So, that falls in line with it. It's not not really a problem.

Okay. Is P69 the entire Marcionite Gospel of Luke or it's just a fragment, right?

Uh, it is considered a manuscript because it's quite a bit. Uh, let's see. P69 Papyrus here. So, P69. Well, I guess, yeah. Well, it depends. It depends on how you want to call it, but I guess you could say fragment. Yeah, they call it a fragment on Wikipedia at least. Why do we say that that is Marcionite?

Because it's the same words.

They don't know. They don't know as if if it's Luke or Marcionite. That's what I said.

They don't know.

That's what I'm saying. Like, how

It says we don't I I don't know how to tell you. We don't and we can't. We don't

Think it's Marcionite then?

Because they're the same words.

I guess I'm failing to see where the connection is. So,

Evangeline and Luke have the same material. So, as a result,

Evangelion of Marcion.

Yeah. Yeah. I call it Evangeline. Evangelion. It doesn't really matter. It's still it's means gospel in Greek. Uh, but he publishes that in 144. The Gospel of Luke comes after it and utilizes Evangeline and adds to it. Uh, mostly chapters at the beginning with John the Baptist's birth, Jesus's birth, and then the genealogy of Jesus and the baptism of Jesus in chapter 3. And then it starts utilizing it about halfway through chapter 4 is when it really starts kicking off and utilizing the prior material. And it even [ __ ] says that there's prior material that's at the beginning. Anyways, the point is, um, then it adds a couple chapters to the end or at least edits the end to some extent because those are the easiest places that you could edit or add something is to the beginning and end of something. Uh, if you try to add something in the middle, it kind of it's wonky. Uh, but there are slight edits throughout of it throughout most of it. There are slight edits, but not huge additions. Um, but yeah, the Gospel of Luke absolutely post-dates 144, post-dates Marcion's Evangeline or Evangeline. And so, as a result, when we get this fragment that is over Luke 22:41, 45-48 to some extent, and then 22:58-61. These are all chap verses in, uh, uh, both Luke and found in Evangeline or Evangelion. So, we don't we don't know. We don't know what it's for, and and we're not gonna know.

That. So, this is all we have that's that could be considered a Marcionite

Manuscript?

Like the actual, like manuscript or fragments. Sure. Why? I mean, yeah.

Well, if if we don't have any complete manuscripts in Marcion, I'm just not sure what you're basing your views.

Oh, you don't know like how we know what he said? Well, we can deduce from like what the other church fathers say, what people write.

Right. So, is that where is that where you're getting the majority of this from?

I mean, the majority of the information found in Evangeline and the Apostolic, which would be the letters of Paul, come from Tertullian in origin. I mean, for them to say that he is taking from the Gospel of Luke would be a bit odd. Like if if he didn't do that or if they didn't believe that he did that. If if if it was something completely different from the Gospel of Luke, why would they say that it's the Gospel of Luke?

Like he was taking from the Gospel of Luke. Not saying Luke is taking from Marcion.

I'm aware. However, does state that the Marcionites claim the inverse happened. Uh, that, uh, they believe that their gospel came first and that the Gospel of Luke is just their gospel with additions made to it. So, we dive into it and we can find through a myriad of different ways, uh, that the Gospel of Luke is absolutely after Marcion. But nevertheless, it doesn't [ __ ] matter. The point is, you're asking how do we know what's in it? And we're saying that Tertullian and Origin said that it was the Gospel of Luke, uh, with pieces removed, is what they said. So, basically a smaller version of the Gospel of Luke. That's fine. And it wouldn't make any sense for them to have said that if it wasn't like that doesn't make any sense. Like if it was a completely different gospel that didn't say anything from the Gospel of Luke, why would they say that it's the Gospel of Luke? I mean, they're trying to say that he's taking from Luke. I get that. But nevertheless, if it was something that has nothing to do with Luke, neither side would be saying that. The Marcionites would not be saying, "Hey, they stole from us to make Luke." And the Christians, the proto-Catholics would not be saying, "Hey, uh, you took from Luke to make yours." If it's something completely unrelated and doesn't have anything to do with it and it's completely a different text, why are both sides arguing over [laughter] over the

I think that the simpler hypothesis would be that Marcion borrowed from Luke?

No, not at all.

Rather than vice versa.

No. Uh, the Gospel of Luke absolutely between chapters 4-22, and I keep saying that because through data science, we can actually determine that that is a completely separate author from the rest of Luke, like the beginning and the end, metric, as well as all of, uh, as well of all of Acts. All of Acts comes, all all the time will come up with the beginning of Luke and the end and the end of Luke because that's the same author. It's a completely separate author, uh, there for, uh, for Luke. Not only can we see this through styrometrics, but we can also see it through the fact that there's a verse in chapter four where it starts utilizing, uh, Evangeline that is out of place in the Gospel of Luke, but is not out of place in the Gospel of Evangeline. It's also not found in any other ver any other book aside from Evangeline. So, I mean, yeah, dude, it's it's it's pretty bad. Not to mention, no one even [ __ ] mentions like gospels or even alludes to them until Justin Martyr does in 155. And no one quotes, uh, or even says anything remotely close to something in the Gospel of Luke, uh, until, uh, 155 with Justin Martyr talking about the Jesus sweating drops of blood. And still, even then, he doesn't say he got it from the Gospel of Luke. So, it's pretty bad, man. It's pretty bad. Uh, do they have anything else?

Well, that that to me is just like arguments from silence.

No, it's not, dude. It's really not. We actually have evidence to suggest that it is using, not suggest, to show us that it is using the gospel of evangel first. Like, I it it's not just the argument of silence. I've literally provided you with evidence as well as the argument from silence. So, doesn't [ __ ] matter. Do you have anything else?

I have to I I have to hop off, but I'd like to come back again. I book.

That's perfectly fine. But our book absolutely, uh, will anchor the idea, uh, that the Gospel of Luke and the book of Acts are second century. They're mid-second century. There's no way around it. There really isn't. And you wouldn't have any evidence to suggest otherwise.

Do you guys suggest you go over, uh, like Josephus and Tacitus and stuff in the book?

Yeah, there's a chapter on the ancient historians. Yeah.

Okay. All right. Well, thanks for your time, man. Talk to you later.

All right. Uh, let's see here. I am time. I am time, I guess. Is that his name? Oh, Triple H. Is that That's like a wrestler, right? Pretty sure it is.

Is Triple H the guy? Is that Is that the guy that does like the suck it thing?

Oh. Oh, you talking about wrestling? No, this has nothing to do with wrestling. No.

No, it stands for Hard-Hitting Heretic.

Who Who does the Who does that thing? Who does that thing?

Uh, that was Xbox, if I ain't mistaken.

I I don't know who that is. You talking about where he used to throw his hands in a X across his crotch?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Who's that supposed to be?

Was XOT. XOT.

He was just a raffle back in the day. I didn't watch it too much, but I do I do remember that.

No, Jiren. It was mistake. I didn't mean to request, but

Oh, you Oh, you didn't. Okay. Well, any questions while you're up here?

Uh, no. No, no, no, no, not at the moment. I'm looking over to Marcion's work as well, so.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Marcion is wild, and I I do I truly do believe that he is, uh, really the key to understanding a lot of like the dating of this thing and also just trying to figure out what Christianity looked like prior to being a text-based religion. So, it's definitely a very interesting.

Yeah. Well, Christianity,

Sorry, I had a phone call. Apologize. Um, Christianity today is nothing, Oh,

Compared to what it was prior.

Oh, yeah. Very, very different. Yeah. Totally different. Totally different. But, uh, yeah, it was a mistake, J. Sorry about that.

No worries. No worries. Thanks for coming up. That was I am time, everybody. I am time and then HH, but not Triple H, apparently. Apparently not. Uh, yeah, there's a ye-haw. Can I get a ye-haw? Let me see if I can get a ye-haw. I think I can get a ye-haw. [screaming]

That's a pretty long one, actually. All right. Uh, let's see. If you're on YouTube and you want to come up, you definitely can. Click the link in the chat or send a super chat, and I will read it. Even if it says that I'm just a dumb douchebag who doesn't know anything about the Bible. Uh, let's see. I learned something last night. Can I share it? Speaking of

What is that? I think it was maybe an Indian song. You're you're you're supposed to dance to that.

Oh, the best I got.

Speaking of dumb douchebags who don't have any idea about the Bible. Uh,

Yeah. Yeah.

We're supposed to dance, Jiren. We're supposed to dance.

So stupid. All right. Uh, Cyber, what you got, buddy? What you got?

Yeah, so last night, Redheaded Trouble and I were, uh, in a Christian live. Um, Emily Neptune down there in chat was a witness to this. Um, and this guy was getting absolutely, uh, curb-stopped, like the entire time. I did learn, um, his greatest argument was that when you go to seminary or you go to school for theology, it, uh, takes you away from the Bible and Christianity. That was his argument.

It did get spicy. Mike, you keep sending the song that's called Baby Boy. [laughter]

Anyways, um, yeah, I mean, that Well, that doesn't make a lot of sense.

Good boy, huh?

Jiren, you're supposed to dance.

I'm not dancing to that. It said something about footfam. What is that? Oh, is it is it is that what you call the people who like Bigfoot?

Jiren. Jiren, you haven't told the people about our off account.

Only feet.

You haven't told them about our Yeah. Only feats. You haven't told them about it yet.

What is happening?

I don't know. I randomly just got put up here, but I'm going to dip.

Okay. Okay. Well, Rainforest, what you got?

Cuz apparently there's all kinds of crap that's being played here. Okay.

You're running off guests. I'm I'm this close. I am this close to making it to where if you send a song, you will be banned.

Wait, did a Mike send that last one?

No, he sent the one that was like something about like, uh, baby boy, something. I don't know. U Mike, you got it. Then, uh, can you put your mouth around it and we'll see.

No. Okay. Stop it. Stop it. All right. All right. So, [sighs] what if anybody has any evidence for Jesus or Paul, please, for the love of God, come up here and give evidence for him. Please.

I don't know what any of this [ __ ] is and I'm [ __ ] scared. [snorts]

No, I don't think you can disable the song gifts. They're They don't let you disable those specifically.

I I wish you could. Like I I will say I think the the song gifts are pretty distracting. Well, like if I'm in the middle of a conversation, you start playing, but for the most part, most people are pretty chill with like when they when they do them. Yeah, you'd have to disable gifts or something.

Oh [ __ ]

All right. They are. I mean, they're What? All right. So, yeah. Thank you. All right. So, if, uh, if you got any evidence for Jesus or Paul, come on up. I want to hear from you.

Come on up. Come on up. David Andrew on [sighs] on YouTube says, "Don't even think about ending the sounds. I hate them. They're awful." Uh, let's see. There are some people over on the live chat on YouTube that I'm seeing. It's dumb and not even No, it's not evident enough, bro. This ain't a fairy tale.

It is, too. I mean, it's definitely a fairy tale. It says Jesus is attested not only in the New Testament but also by non-Christian writers such as Tacitus, who recorded that Christ was executed under Pontius Pilate in the reign of Tiberius, and Jose. I think they started writing Josephus, but yeah.

I like I like that pronunciation of the traitorous Josephus.

I was saying, yeah, if you've got any evidence, then send it in the super chat or, uh, come on up. I want to hear from you. The request button is right there above Cyber's head or down there below the microphone, kind of is.

All right, we got somebody who I think has

What?

Go ahead.

What'd you say?

I was going to say two though, but like

I think you need to make it a requirement whenever somebody. So, I think what you need to do is whenever somebody brings up like Tacitus or Josephus, like you should ask them if they've actually read the text or if it's just a quick Google search, like ask them like, what does it say? Like, what?

That's what I do. I say, "What do they say about it?" All right. Uh, Colin, uh, Colin Cosmos, if you're there.

Yeah, I'm here. What you got for us, buddy? I was thinking, um, about Timothy, um, that how those, uh, those letters from Timothy or book of Timothy was is like, for sure amongst the Catholic Church and other institutions, they agreed that that is not canon. It was complete forgery. Um, that got brought up briefly amongst a a podcast I was listening to about Paul and how he's really the one who monetized it for us past the Council of Nicaea when they were putting that character together. Um,

Okay.

Hey, quick quick question. What are you doing in the background? Because there might be people wearing earbuds and stuff and it might be, uh, causing their brain to get spicy.

Oh, nope. Not me.

All right. So,

I mean, I was

What? What do you mean spicy? What? What was that? That was weird.

What's all What's all the noise in the background, man? What's all that?

Is it just sound like static?

No, it sounds like you're smacking [ __ ] like you're, I don't know, like

Sweeping or something.

Or like sharpening a knife, pounding hammers, opening soda cans.

Yeah, it sounded like you were opening a soda can at some point.

I didn't know these earphones were that good. No, I was just rolling a cigarette and scooping off my excess tobacco.

Oh, yeah. Well, it absolutely sounded like you were working in a like a soda tasting factory or something. Okay. So, anyways, the point is, what's your point about like, uh, like Timothy? I mean, yes, first Timothy, second Timothy, the pastorals, they're definitely not Paul, but what would be So, what was your argument or what was your question?

Oh. Um, what what do you think of, I guess if I have to put in a question, what do you think of Paul? Like, it seems like every, cuz I grew up Christian and

I say that he doesn't even exist.

Trying to go to

I think Paul existed.

No. But do do you h is that something that you would feel you would die on?

This might piss some people off. I don't think Jesus existed as we know him, but people like Paul did.

Do you think that we have

To write it up?

Do you think that we have historical evidence for Paul?

Not as much as we have for Jesus, too. That's a good point. That's a good point. So, why do you think Paul existed?

Just I don't know. It's more familiar to me, I guess. The way he's like, "Oh, I was a murderer. Now I'm saved." But

What he says and how he met.

Well, so are Harry Potter's parents, but they don't exist.

Whoa.

What?

Harry Potter's parents. Voldemort deod right out of existence.

Well, okay. If if I I think I know what you're saying.

Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John never existed either.

Yeah, dude. It's kind of like you're getting it now. Yeah, it's it's mythology. It's fake.

Maybe he was the Buddha for that part of the world.

Well, question though, because you said something. Did do do you think that in the Pauline letters he said I got murdered to death in his own letters?

I think he said I think he was trying to say he he did the the the schmurder.

Yeah, he did the murder. He redeemed himself through Christ. He made a big spiel about it. Sent a bunch of letters off to people, you know, telling them how they were wrong and he was right. So, do you have evidence of Paul though? What evidence? Like like is this a hill you would die on that Paul existed?

As a framework? Yeah. As a real person though?

All right. Well, we're moving on from that guy. God damn. [clears throat]

We were trying to get him. We were trying to get him.

Well, it was like playing Jenga with wet bars of soap. We weren't getting anywhere. That's the problem.

Um, let's see.

Yeah, that was flaccid mode.

Dancing [ __ ] I don't know what that is.

How many people you got on YouTube right now? On YouTube, there are 338 people watching.

All right, Jiren, you lost the game. Boom. 600 people. Y'all just lost the game. that. All right. If you got any evidence for Jer Paul, please come up. I don't know what they're saying there. I have to get better. Cyber came up here just to kind of make us all lose the game and then just bounce. Crazy. Hey, it's Kim. Kim's in here. Thank you for the All right. Uh, if you're on YouTube and you want to come up, that's not a problem. Click the link in the chat. That is how I take, uh, guests. Uh, take guests over on TikTok. If you don't have a TikTok or, um, don't want to come over to TikTok, not a problem. Just send a super chat and I will read it out loud and I will respond to it. Um, but yeah, if you do want to come up, I, you know, I'm more than happy to talk to you. Uh, but I I take guests on, uh, TikTok. Uh, what's for lunch? Uh, I got a turkey and cheese sandwich as well as some, uh, chips and salsa. Lovely chips and salsa and washing it down with, uh,

I don't even know what song that was. I don't think there's a real song. I think it was AI. Uh, but washing it down with a 7-Eleven replenish. And, uh, this is actually the second time that I've mentioned 7-Eleven today, which is kind of wild. No, Trevy Trav. All right. It is more my style, but I pretty sure it was an AI song. This sounded like Hillsong. So, I'll stand with arms high and heart. [laughter] Sorry to all the, uh, Baptist kids that just got [ __ ] triggered there. All right. You seem to like 7-Eleven.

Um, no. I think it's just nearby. Jiren, did you ever listen to 117? 117? That sounds ridiculous. I know that it's wrong to form an opinion on only what I see, but in my defense, it's really hard to know when the show. So, no, I've never heard of him. [cough and clears throat] Nope. All right. Uh, let's see. thing. Okay. What is happening?

All right. I need fresh meat. Not this thing you're doing, bro. Okay. I'm sorry. I'm waiting for people to come up and give me evidence for Jesus or Paul. All right. Where the hell have you been? Loca.

I like getting it deeper. All right. [cough and clears throat] 117. Is 7-Eleven sponsoring Virtue to Feral today? Possibly. If Virtue to Ferrell was in the chat. Is Jiren 7.5 enough? H, she's probably still live. Probably. She's been live all morning.

All right. First time. Is it first time? It might be first time. All right, guys. Remember, I'm doing it again. But first Peter 3:15 tells you that if you are a Bible-believing Christian, you need to get your ass in gear and get up here and give me evidence because 1 Peter 3:15 says, "Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give a reason for the hope that you have, but do this with gentleness and respect." It says to always be prepared to give a defense.

See, this is why this is why this is my 13th reason why. I'm telling you, absolutely.

But anyways, you should always be prepared to give a defense of why you believe what you believe.

Come on up here. Come on up here. Save the puppies. If if you don't come up here and give evidence for Jesus Paul 2,000 years ago, God's going to unalive a puppy twice. Same puppy. Same puppy. Just going to bring it back. There it goes. Gone. Do I have a sound for what's going to happen to that puppy right here?

Nice. [laughter]

That was God. He was saying nice. Anyways, again, look it up. It's in Proverbs. Told you this earlier. It's in Proverbs. I don't make the rules. I don't break the rules. Save the Save Save the puppies, guys. Save the puppies. Save the puppies. The puppy does come back in three days, so it's okay. They don't stay dead. My puppy's too cute. Save the pupp. Oh my god. Oh my god. But until then, I guess we're just waiting for [sighs] waiting for Christians to come up. [music] [music]

All right, come on up, Christians. Colin Cosmos says, "You make me want to believe in hell. How much do they pay you?" Who? Who? The puppy reincarnates itself.

What is happening right now? This is absolutely not what what this life is about. Just a bunch of music. [clears throat] Your thoughts. How happy are you at night? Uh, pretty happy that your mom's there. Uh, you guys are get you guys are getting paid. Why do they make Paul subservient to the disciples? I forgot. Uh, because the proto-Catholics, they decided to link themselves to, uh, the disciples. They tried to say that, um, they got their authority from people who actually knew Jesus. Hey, there's Palenta. Uh, processed meat makes you hate Jesus. Foot. Yeah, ridiculous. Just ridiculous. Drop a zen and lock in. Christians, where you at? [laughter] That's gross. Actually, it's actually pretty gross. Uh, BigMelo, what you got?

Uh, sup Jarn. Um, I had a discussion with a Christian and he brought up like [laughter]

Yeah. And he he brought up how how how do we even know then who like who the first pope was when Peter and the other disciples didn't exist. Like I just said, like the normal things like, yeah, we we don't even know if there was like

The first pope, uh, or in your opinion, what, what would you say, like in my situation?

So their question is, how would we know who the first pope is if Peter didn't exist?

Yeah.

You wouldn't.

Yeah, that was my point. Basically said, like, the only reason why you think you know it is because he's kind of mentioned in Second Timothy, if I, if I'm correct, and not even like the scholars think Second Timothy is like authentic.

I mean, yeah, I mean, it's, it's pretty, pretty silly that people think that Peter was the first pope. I mean, that's just the story. That's the tradition.

It doesn't really go anywhere. But church history says, like, there was a pope after him, and he was like, hell bad, like saying, like, yeah, Linus was like, like Linus existed, of course, but yeah, the only.

We don't have any evidence of Linus, like, yeah, it's just dumb.

Basically, my point, um, so the funny thing is, after the discussion, I found like another kind of, uh, guy who didn't believe that Jesus existed, but he basically believed.

Yeah, like.

He basically believed.

He basically believed in the Flavian conspiracy.

And I tried to pull him a light a little bit out, and he didn't know about Marcion. That's the crazy part, like he hasn't researched anything about.

Yeah.

Like, and he, you know, like, is really interested in the theory, but every, like, I was reading like a bunch of stuff about like the Marcionite priority and stuff, and I just can't wrap my mind around like every research I say says like, yeah, maybe Mark was like in the 40, like 140s.

Be before 40, 44, and that confuses me really much.

Yeah, well, I. And people tend to forget, or people tend to look at Marcion and just think that he is somebody who is taking from Christianity or take from taking from like the Gospels, because that's what Christian tradition is. But it's later Christians who don't like Marcion that are saying this kind of stuff, and we can tell that that's different. And I think that people can get kind of hung up on what Christians have said for a long time. In fact, one thing that you'll notice is that, um, throughout the last couple years or two and a half years that I've been going live, I've been saying that Marcion publishes a gospel or publishes, uh, Evangeline in 144. I will stop short of saying that he wrote it. Um, but, uh, realistically, the only reason and Matthew and I, like I said, we, we earlier, uh, we've been talking about this over the last few days. This has been our big weekend topic, basically, is it's it's been that the only real reason that we think that Marcion didn't write Evangeline is because that's kind of just what the later church fathers said that he published it, but he was stealing from Luke. So they wouldn't say that he wrote it. Um, but we know he didn't steal from Luke, so maybe he wrote it. And so it, it brings that question back up into light. So, we had been kind of just going off of what we, we had been impacted. We had been influenced by what the church said to some extent. Um, and now we're calling into question all of it. I mean, it's, I, I think some people will, like we were able to say Marcion publishes the first gospel, but we weren't bringing in ourselves to say that he wrote it, even though we're just kind of going off what the church says for that part. Some people will say Mark was written in 140, but they won't say that it's written after Marcion because they can't bring themselves to say it because of what the church says. It's tough. We're finding Matthew and I are finding things all the time that even we are guilty of holding on to simply because the church said it.

Yeah.

Like one of the sources I was looking at was like Marcion's Klingard and his theory.

Yeah.

And, um, it's pretty interesting because, uh, like if I understand everything he's saying, um, like he can't really give me the date, but he says like, it, it depends, like, it would be nice if I had like some kind of date that could point, like, this was when Mark was written in in in kind of like.

Like, what would your dating of Mark be like?

I would say it's about 145, somewhere in there.

145. Okay. Amazing. And last time I was up here, I mentioned.

One more question here because I, I want to get to some people who are like arguing against.

One more question.

Go ahead.

Go ahead.

Bigalow.

Sorry. Sorry. Yeah. And last time I was up here, I mentioned that Jason Bedun was a proponent of. Yeah, I read a little bit more on it, and I, I rewatched the live stream. I got like the first impression on that he actually believed in.

Nothing that he says is against the Q. He, he says you need to be cautious about as say, like everything in Marcion is not like, like, is Marcion original? Like, am I [ __ ] crazy or like, like he believes that Jesus existed.

Yeah.

Does.

Yeah, I would imagine that he does, or he at least takes that position publicly. Yeah, last time I was like, so, so, so embarrassed that I thought, like, maybe I'm [ __ ] crazy, that why, why is he saying that and like.

No, I, I think a lot of it is people are focused, people are focused on like certain aspects of the of study of scholarship. So Bedun's focused on like Marcionite canon and everything like that and like putting it together. He's not focused on the historicity of Jesus per se. Um, so he's still going to take that like, just generic scholarly stance there, but he's still gonna talk about the other things.

Yeah.

Um, but yeah, that, that, that would be why sometimes he says things that line up with us, sometimes he doesn't because he's only looking at parts of what we look at.

Or parts he's only concerned with some things that we're concerned with.

Yeah.

Have a nice day then.

Yeah. Not a problem. Thank you very much. That's Bigalow. Bigalow. Oh, [ __ ] Oh, damn it. Okay. Yeah. Sorry about that. I accidentally I accidentally removed you there. Uh, Jay Savage, if you can request back up. I accidentally removed you. Nope. I was trying to remove Bigalow and I accidentally removed the other guy.

There he goes. There he goes. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So, uh, Jay Savage, I think you were up here first. What you got there, man?

Um, all right. So, uh, my main thing is just, okay. So, what, okay. So, what makes you personally believe, like your opinion to why, I mean, I, I understand that you're saying that there's no evidence because of pictures due to all of this. Like, uh, I mean, I, I understand that it makes a lot of sense, but what makes you personally feel that nothing that was written from the Bible or anything is legit? I mean, I'm not saying all of it is, but what makes you think that not even a little part of it is somewhat truthful?

So, my concern with the Bible is not because of pictures or anything like that. I mean, obviously, we didn't have pictures back then. It's, um, it's the fact that we don't have any contemporaries of Jesus who talk about him or anything like that. Uh, we don't have, we don't have anybody from the first century that even talks about him. We do have some interpolations into like some early ancient historians, um, because some Christians saw that it was beneficial to write Jesus into these texts to make it look like he actually existed. But we can tell that they're not authentic to the historians. So it just kind of goes away. Now, the other part to this is that, um, uh, there's, it's not just a lack of evidence, it's actual evidence against them because the Gospels themselves, they contradict each other. They tell a story, even some of the natural story contradicts other parts of the of the New Testament. So it doesn't really, it doesn't line up, and sometimes it even contradicts what we know about history and geography of the time. So it just, it, in, in some cases, it's physically impossible for the Jesus of the New Testament to exist. That's the problem. I mean, it's, it's complete. I mean, it's understandable for, for, uh, kind of for what you're saying, but, um, so, so this is, this is one thing that kind of when it came to, uh, um, me, me trying to talk to like priests or other people that were with the church, they, they always.

Why is it that you think that these people always end up? I mean, it's, it all goes down to belief, but once they cannot prove proof of like a source or if you try to tell them something and they kind of know that they're wrong, they're always going to go straight to belief. Well, you got to have to believe. You, it's all about belief.

Well, that's because faith is the excuse that people give when they don't have a good reason to believe something. And so, if you get somebody in a corner and they can't actually explain it, they just go, I just believe it because it makes me feel good, and they, they just call it faith. But faith is not a pathway to truth. Faith is something that you, again, it's an excuse you give when you don't have a good reason to believe something. Otherwise, it would be trust. Trust is based on, uh, knowledge, evidence, support, know-how, um, evidence, or, or, or experience. I mean, that's what trust is. Faith is the lack of all those things, but you still believe it anyways. That's all that it is.

Okay.

So people, people hold that, or they flock to that.

One last question. Would.

[snorts]

You would. Okay. I wouldn't say not necessarily in any specific religions, not, not, not Mormon, Jesus, uh, uh, Catholic, Buddha, not any of that. Would you say that you believe in somewhat that there is a higher power?

I'm not saying Jesus. I'm not saying no specific.

Would you say there's a higher power?

It's just irrelevant to the question or irrelevant to the topic. I mean, I, I, I recognize it's a s, it's a sincere question. And it's just not, it's just not relevant to the topic here.

All right?

Because we're talking about whether or not two people existed in history. And I mean, I, I believe you to be sincere. What I will say, if you're that interested, if you check out the ebook about Christ Before Jesus, the link is in my bio. The ebook is just $3. On page three, I tell you what my religion is. So, I mean, you can, you can do that if you want. You can, I mean, I just, a little bit of a shameless plug there. You can go and check it out. But yeah, on page three of the of the book, we, I, I say what my religion is.

All right. And, um, so, um, all right, that's, that's pretty much it that I ask.

Yeah, no problem. If you have any other questions, just, uh, come back up, man. Thanks for coming up.

Cool. Thank you.

That was J Savage nine deuce, I guess. Um, uh, and then two pounds there from Neptune cult says, "Don't check Discord, you'll queef." So, first of all, I did check Discord. Uh, and, um, I know a goat die.

What happened?

All of you know my dieger. All right. Uh, James Stall, what you got?

Oh, I was just, uh, listening to you regarding the Gospels a little bit. Um, I come from an Aramaic and, uh, Jewish background. So I basically have a different stance on the originality of the New Testament. Um, that it was.

Uh, came from an Aramaic background.

Uh, well, basically, um, I'm, I'm part Jewish, so we study things in Aramaic, like the Talmud, um, which also talks about Jesus and, and.

Uh, so a background in Aramaic.

Yeah.

Like studying the the language.

I studied Semitic languages. Yeah, I've studied Semitic languages in college and things like that. And, um, and we use something called the Peshitta, which is the Aramaic version of the New Testament, which also.

Um, was passed down from the disciples, um, to the original early church. Well, the early church, um, fathers point to the fact that Paul wrote the original, um, Gospels, Luke and, um, Paul did.

The book of Acts in Aramaic, and that they were translated by Luke.

That's why Luke.

No.

That's why Luke's name is on there.

That's, that's not a thing.

Um, do you want me to quote?

Yeah.

[music]

Can you hear me?

Yep.

Okay.

Sorry, I'm doing all this from my device, so let me know if it gets choppy. But the church father said what? That the, you said the book of Acts and you said something like the Gospels, the book of Acts, and you said something about Paul in there was originally in Aramaic. By the way, I can't hear you whenever you're off the app. You got to come back in here whenever you got your information.

All right. Well, um, I'll have to figure out. I'm doing it all on on my device. So, basically,

Um, he, he explains how Matthew wrote it in an Aramaic. It was passed down to the church fathers, the whole Eastern.

Or that's Matthew.

Uh, anything else.

[clears throat]

And also he claims that Luke, I'm sorry, uh, yeah, Luke and Acts were written by Paul and then translated into Greek. Because if you read the book of Acts, Paul really speaks Greek.

He says it in.

Why would he speak anything else if he was from Tarsus?

Why would he not speak Greek?

Well, Paul was a Roman citizen and Tarsus and that whole area was.

So then why would he speak anything other than Greek?

Uh, well, the whole region spoke Aramaic. Jesus is speaking Aramaic. They all spoke Aramaic. That's.

Where do you think Tarsus, Palestine spoke?

That's not. Tarsus is not in Palestine.

Well, we're talking about the center of the Jewish world.

Tarsus is not in the Jewish world. Where do you think Tarsus was? I'm going to pull up a map here for you.

Well, most Jews anyway in that whole region, they don't see.

What do you mean region? What are you, what are you, what are you talking about? Like.

The Middle East.

This Tarsus isn't really the Middle East. Not really. I.

[clears throat]

Mean, it's, it's like.

Cilicia, or if you're.

If you're to read also from Josephus.

Josephus also claims that they that they didn't often speak.

Listen, dude. Listen, dude. You're saying.

Hebrew and Aramaic. Cool. Well, not in Tarsus. So again, the problem is the fact you're saying that you've studied in Aramaic and stuff like that. You clearly are just bullshitting because Syria.

But Syria is that's where Syriac comes from.

Syriac. Syria. You're still, still not the right place.

I don't, I don't have them. Can you show me where?

Yes. Yes, dude. Okay. So, you've studied this, but you have no [ __ ] clue what you're talking about. All right. So, Judea is here at home. No, that.

It's not an ad hominem. You, that's a fact. You do not know what you're talking about.

Like that's not an attack against you. It's just a fact. It is a known fact that you don't know what you're talking about because Judea, which is I guess sort of kind of what you're calling Palestine, maybe does not include Tarsus. Tarsus is up here. Galilee, which is right here, does not include Tarsus. Tarsus is up here. All of Syria does not include Tarsus. Tarsus is over here. It is part of Asia Minor. This entire region up here, it is no way, shape, or form a place where they would have been speaking Aramaic and not.

Do you concede? Do you concede that Paul was a Pharisee?

I don't think he existed, dude. But even according to the story itself, he doesn't have to speak Aramaic and not Greek. So nevertheless, what we have for the Pauline epistles, what we have for the Pauline epistles is Greek. I don't think you ever says what you think he claimed or you're claiming to that he said. I don't think you ever said that Paul wrote in Aramaic first. I have yet to hear.

Do you, do you concede? Do you concede that we have church fathers and massive histories of the church? And even.

I don't know what you're talking about that has anything to do with what you tried to say earlier. You tried to say that they were writing in Aramaic first, and the only, and you tried to say the Gospels. You mentioned Paul for some weird reason, and you mentioned Acts. Literally only one Gospel is said to have been written in another language prior, and we still know that that's incorrect, and it's Matthew.

So no, Luke is not in Aramaic first. Acts is not in Aramaic first. Mark wouldn't even make sense to be in Aramaic first because the tradition within Christianity is that Mark was an interpreter of Peter. So at best, it would be in Greek first because he was translating from the Aramaic, and that's if Papias, who was what you're talking about, um, uh, with the, the quote there from Eusebius, he's trying to say that, uh, Papias said these things. So no, dude, like no.

Literally everything that you said has been BS.

And, and.

You just, you, you just, you just agreed with me though.

I did not. I haven't agreed with you at all.

That Peter needed an interpreter or a man.

No. According to Christian tradition, which is Papias.

No, Mark was not an interpreter.

[clears throat]

Of Peter. We can tell that Peter shows up later.

I don't. No, he does not say that Paul wrote in Aramaic first.

He doesn't say that.

They all spoke it, and Jesus is quoted in it.

No, there's no quote from.

Show me the quote. Show.

Sweet. Well, he reads from the Septuagint whenever he goes to the synagogue. Every once.

[clears throat]

In a while, he might say something in Aramaic, but guess what? Paul and Jesus aren't even supposedly from the same region, let alone the same.

[ __ ]

Using the Septuagint. Yes.

They were using the Targums. They were using Jewish Targums.

No, they were using the Septuagint. Whenever Jesus goes to the synagogue in Nazareth, he quotes explicitly from the Septuagint because it has terms in there that wouldn't be found within the, uh, Hebrew version. So, man, [clears throat] it is very obvious to me that you haven't researched this at all, but yet you came up here and said that you were from an Aramaic background, which doesn't even really make any sense. But even internally, the New Testament, it, it only makes sense in an original Aramaic. There's two. No, it doesn't. There's not original Aramaic. No. In fact, there's words there's words in there that aren't even, they don't even have an Aramaic counterpart. Like when it says Jesus, Jesus, when he talks about like, uh, give us this day our daily bread, the word that gets translated as daily is only found once ever. And that's in the Bible there. It's literally never found in any other text ever. And it doesn't have a G, it doesn't have a Hebrew or Aramaic counterpart. So that's wrong. Philip and Andrew are both Greek names that don't have Hebrew or Aramaic counterparts. And the times that Jesus does speak Aramaic, yeah. Yeah. And the, the time that Jesus does speak Aramaic, which is only really on the cross, really, um, the people who are around him who know what he's saying or know what he's talking about, like, or can understand what he's saying, uh, it says, "Oh, hey, he's calling for Elijah." But that doesn't really make a lot of sense because the only people who would know who Elijah was would be the people who can speak Aramaic. So no, it is pretty obvious that he does not speak.

In the book of Acts, in the book of Acts, whether you believe it or not as history, Paul is quoted as speaking Hebrew to the Hebrews, and they all become quiet, and then the Roman guard says, "You can speak Greek." And he says, "Yeah, I was actually, I'm a Roman citizen from Tarsus." I don't think he says Tarsus at that point, but he says, "I'm a Roman citizen, so may I talk to these people in Hebrew?" And it specifically uses. I'm not saying that the, the Greek versions are are complete trash, but.

Sweet. We don't have any Hebrew versions of these texts, man. That's what I'm trying to tell you. You were trying to appeal to.

No, we don't have it in Aramaic.

There's no, there's no version of Acts in Aramaic. No.

When do you think that shows up?

When do you think that shows up? The Peshitta was passed down to the early church, which was based in Iraq.

Give me evidence.

They were based in.

Give me evidence.

They, they literally have the original documents.

So, no, they don't. That doesn't even make any [ __ ] sense.

They have the original New Testament. The early Orthodox Church has the original New Testaments, and it was passed down by Paul. They even say.

Where is, where is it held? Where is it held? They, it's held in, um, uh, what's the name of the fre, the place it was, it was under attack in the recent war in Syria in those areas, um, uh, it's, give me one moment to pull up the name of the city.

All right. Uh, so, uh, just taking a look specifically at the book of Acts, the book of Acts is in Aramaic is part of the Peshitta, uh, says the survi earliest surviving manuscripts date back to the fifth century. Congratulations, you're an idiot.

Do you have anything else?

So we're doing ad hominem. Correct. Because you are an idiot, and also you are wrong. Like those are two different things. You can be wrong and an idiot, and you are both of those things.

Right. It's your show. You can.

Now, you're not wrong because you're an idiot. You're wrong, and you're an idiot. Those are two different things. And also, I'm not saying you're wrong because you're an idiot. That would be what an ad hominem. Listen.

The whole thing is your your premise is based on.

James, shut up. You don't know what you're talking about. And this is separate from being an idiot. You are an idiot, and that's true, and that's just over to the side. But you're also wrong. You're demonstrably wrong. We do not have any original versions of the New Testament in any language. And we don't have anything in Aramaic for the New Testament until the fifth century. This is not a real thing. Literally only one thing that you've even possibly come close to sniffing is even remotely true. And this is that Eusebius claims Matthew, uh, was written by, was written in Aramaic first, but he's only really quoting somebody else who we don't have anything from, which is Papias. Uh, and he's in the middle of the second century. And also, uh, he's wrong because Matthew absolutely pulls from another Greek gospel known as Mark. And it wouldn't make a lot of sense that he would pull word for word from a Greek gospel if he was originally in Aramaic and it was being translated into Greek. So, there's a lot of reasons as to why what you're saying is complete and total [ __ ]. Um, do you have anything else before we move on? Because I mean, it's obvious you've never actually looked into this. Like, you may have looked into it like a little bit.

In the same book, Ecclesiastical History, book five, it explains where Hebrews comes from, Acts, and Luke. And it, and it's not saying just Matthew was Aramaic. They all.

It says that Hebrews was originally in Aramaic.

Yes.

Where does it say that?

In book five of Ecclesiastical History. Okay. Where Eusebius never stated the book of Acts was originally written in Aramaic. Instead, ancient church traditions recorded by Eusebius in Ecclesiastical History specifically to the Gospel of Matthew, not Acts, stating that Matthew was originally collected, uh, the sayings of Jesus in Hebrew or Aramaic before it was translated into Greek.

Man, I can't even read the book that you have in front of you.

Are you able to hear me reading the quote?

No, I can't. Whenever you're off the app, I can't hear you.

All right. So, he, I'll just paraphrase what I just read. He says the book of Hebrews is attributed to Paul, and also the book of Acts was or, uh, and Acts was carefully wr, uh, translated for the Greeks by Luke, and that is, uh, book, uh, five of Ecclesiastical Histories, Ecclesiastical History, so you know I'm not just pulling these things out of thin air.

No equivalent church early church tradition or statement exists in you surviving writings claiming an Aramaic original for the book of Acts, which scholars universally recognize, correct?

As having been composed directly from Hebrew.

He's saying it's by, it's in Hebrew, not Aramaic. They use Hebrew and Aramaic interchangeably because they're a sister language. So it's Hebrew.

All right.

[sighs and gasps]

No, did not say that the book of Acts was originally written in Hebrew. Eusebius cited Clement of Alexandria stating that Paul wrote Hebrews in Hebrew and that Luke translated carefully through Greek speakers. Clementius noted that this translation work by Luke shares a similar style and color with the book of Acts. That's, but that's, that's he does not say that it was originally written in Hebrew. What he's saying is that somebody else said that Hebrews was written by Paul, but he, it's pretty clear that Hebrews is not written by Paul. Even Origen says that he thinks it was just a fan of, of Paul that wrote that. It's not actually written by Paul. It never even claims to be from Paul.

I'm trying to, uh, pace stuff a little bit in the comments. Will that work for you?

Dude, it's pretty obvious that this isn't getting anywhere closer to a Jesus or Paul existing, which is really the ultimate goal of the of the live. But nevertheless, no, man. In no way, shape, or form do we have any evidence that any of the New Testament was originally written in Hebrew or Aramaic, save maybe pieces of, uh, like, or the bulk of the material maybe from, uh, from Revelation, but other than that, no, we do not have any Gospels or anything like that that were originally written in Aramaic or, or Hebrew.

I, I concede that we don't have the original, uh, paper on all of the Gospels, as far as I know. We just, when I meant the original New Testament, we have a complete New Testament in Aramaic called the Peshitta, and we have the Old Testament as well.

Yeah.

According to, you know, your AI, but it's like at the same time.

When do you show me any evidence that it was around prior to the fifth century?

How, how would it be passed down?

But how would it be passed down to the Orthodox?

It's not, dude. It's not. It's passed down. It's, it's just [ __ ]. Now, I, I don't know how to tell you that like churches lie, man. Like, they suddenly get information and they say that this is something that's been around for a really long time because that makes ignorant people and, and, and people who get duped just believe it. It's pretty obvious that people can believe this stuff, which is why you've said a whole bunch of demonstrably false things and had to even correct yourself sometimes or pivot or try to get, you know, out of the corner because you have been duped. You've been duped by a lot of things that have been said. You yourself, even if you hadn't been duped, you were somebody who is up here talking to 291 people on TikTok, 343 people on YouTube. So, you could possibly even dupe someone else who is listening and wants to wants this to be something that's true. All it takes is for someone to [ __ ] and another person to want to believe that [ __ ]. It is that simple. It is that simple. And they just believe it. That's how it goes. That is literally all it takes for [ __ ] to spread. And then all of a sudden you have enough people that have bought into it that claim that there's always been an Aramaic version. That is incorrect. It is demonstrably false.

But even internally, the Greek doesn't even stand close to the Aramaic.

There isn't an Aramaic version first. I don't know how to tell you this, but what you're saying doesn't, it's just some weird opinion. It doesn't even make any sense.

If you reverse, if you just, if you just look at simple mistakes that are in the Greek, it's ridiculous. They, they have all kinds of, it has all kinds of mistakes.

There's no Aramaic version of some of the words that are used, which means that what you're saying is stupid. It's, it's just some kind of weird opinion. There's no Aramaic version of the word daily that gets translated into daily for daily bread. That's just a Greek word.

But where do you think that that prayer comes from? It's an Aramaic prayer.

It is not. You can't give any evidence of it being an Aramaic prayer. Yeah, it's p, it's, we, there's different prayer books that the Jewish people use. That's one of them.

Please provide one prayer book that has that prayer in it prior to the fifth century.

In air.

I honestly, I don't, I, you know, you got.

The thing you're continually pulling [ __ ] out of your ass. This is how people literally started falling for the stuff that you fell for is they pulled it out of their ass, and you believed it because you're willing to pull it out of your ass.

Have you heard of the Peshitta? Have you, have you heard of it? Are you?

Yes. Have you.

The reason I don't give a [ __ ] about it is because I talk about things from the first and second century, and you're up here talking about [ __ ] from the fifth. I don't care.

The Peshitta is in the original language of those people. They weren't.

There's no evidence that they spoke Aramaic, and also the Peshitta is just simply a translation of the Greek. You don't have any evidence to suggest otherwise.

The Peshitta is not a translation of.

It. Do you have the evidence?

Show me the evidence of the original.

Okay. Okay. So.

Give me any, give me any instance of any Aramaic versions prior to the fifth century.

Any Aramaic versions?

Any Aramaic versions of anything from the New Testament? Give me any evidence that they existed prior to the fifth century.

Yeah.

Even if I, even if I don't have manuscripts in front of me.

You don't have anything. You literally don't have anything because it dates to the fifth century.

It's internal though. It's.

No, it's not, because the internal stuff has stuff that's Greek and doesn't have any Aramaic.

Version evidence.

There's no internal evidence that it was written in Hebrew or Aramaic first because there are, there are terms that are only found in Greek. I don't know how to tell you this.

How do you even explain the names? How do you explain the name Jesus? It's obviously it comes from Yeshua.

No. Well, even if it did, who gives a [ __ ]? How do you explain the name Philip? That's not a Hebrew name. Andrew is a Greek name. It doesn't have the Hebrew variant.

But, but when it gives.

You explain it both.

How do you? No.

Give me the Aramaic version of Andrew's.

It says his name.

Give me the Aramaic version of Andrew's.

Give me. Give it to me.

Say it again.

Give me the Aramaic version of Andrew's name.

Give me the Aramaic version of Andrew's name.

Give me the Aramaic version of Andrew's name.

You're that threatened by this argument.

No, it's a dumb argument, and I'm sick and tired of listening to it. Do you have any? Give me the Aramaic version of Philip or Andrew's name. You have two different options. Go look for it and bring it back. The New Testament was originally written in Greek. It was not written in Aramaic. You're just a dumb [ __ ] who thinks that it was. You fell for it, and you're continuing to spread lies about the [ __ ] as well. You're literally part of the problem. Not only what with, uh, people who are addicted to these dumb apologetics websites, but also, uh, you're literally part of the problem with what's wrong with the world today. You are literally trying to not only spread what you have heard, which is [ __ ], but you're also creating more [ __ ]. And then you ended up running because you're a little [ __ ]. You're blocked. All right, let's see. Uh, $5 Canadian there from YouTube says, uh, from Kill the Duality says, uh, father in Hebrew is alfbet. Okay. Uh, alphabet.

Damn, they bumped me up.

All right. Uh, Jesus, the word was sentenced to death. Gospel is ghost spell witchcraft word magic created authority. Jesus Christ. That's got to be a like a. Wow. That is got to be a a satire comment. I'm gonna copy and paste this into TikTok. Look at this thing. This is the most ridiculous thing I think I've ever seen in my life. That's got to be a fake comment. Like a troll. I don't know what's going on.

[music]

Uncle Mo, what you got?

Hey, how you doing, man? I'm just enjoying your show. I just had something to say to the Christians, believers.

Um, does God only show himself to the very educated people? I mean, Jesus was very educated. Moses was very educated, and so was Paul. So everybody that ain't go to school, we ain't going to heaven or God not going to talk to us. I think Christians are just lazy. I read this one book, a guy said, um, he was looking for a bike, and he kept praying to God, but he never got a bike, so he stole a bike and asked for forgiveness. Is that how Christianity works?

Jesus Christ, dude. Well, that is all life lessons from Unk Mo, everybody.

[music]

It's actually pretty funny. All right. Uh, Frankie, um, Madrankie, you there? Frankie.

I don't know what's going on with Frankie there. Uh, Christian, what you got? Christian, you there? Christian.

All right, sounds good. Uh, Frankie, you can unmute if you like.

So, sorry.

There you go. There you go.

So, so sorry. I don't even know how I got on. Oh.

Thank you. I love your stuff.

Oh, well, thank you. Thanks, thanks for coming up. Hey, no worries. No worries. No worries. Well, that was Frankie, everybody. That was Frankie.

[applause]

All right. Uh, let's see. Ellie in Paradise says, "So, why are there over 3 million churches in the world to praise God? 3 million mosques." I don't even know where you're getting at, really. All right. Hey, if you got any evidence for Jesus or Paul, come on up. Surely that's not all of it. Come on. Surely somebody's got some evidence for Jeer Paul. Don't make me hop off at 148. I at least want to go to two something. Come on, guys. Come on. There is some really. Why did, why, why did you guys make a picture of Jason Bedun as a Pokemon beaver? What, what was the motivation there? What was the point? What is happening? Guys are monsters. I didn't call him Jason Bedoff. I didn't call him that. Somebody else, the guests called him Jason Bedoff. I corrected it to Jason Bedun, but he already had said Bedoff. Oh, he's like a rodent kind of thing. Oh, what the, like, you know how like some of the Pokemon, like they like they're [ __ ] like dragons with like fire and [ __ ] coming out of their faces and their their tails and stuff. What the hell is this supposed to be? It's just like a [ __ ] rat thing. Like, what, what is. He's going to get absolutely toasted out there. Why is, why? All right. If you got any evidence for Jer, come on up. Uh, let's see. Did I, did I not do that one? Oh, okay. Yeah. $5 from Jana says, "I don't know the etymology of the word, but do you think the reason we don't find evidence for it in the first century is that they didn't call it queef? That word is a word that is absolutely made up. Surely it's got to be made up at earliest the 20th century."

Yeah.

It.

What is that even from? Uh, it says, uh, that word entered modern slang in the early 1990s, likely as a sound-based imitation or variant of the older Scottish and northern English word, uh, qif, meaning a puff of wind. What? Major dictionaries like the Oxford English Dictionary first noted the noun and verb forms in 1991. It's in the dictionary. In some regional British and Scottish dialects, of course, it's the [ __ ] British. Uh, quiff or quiff historically meant a light gust or puff of air. Only thing that'd be worse if is if it was the French.

[screaming]

Yeah, that just ruined 1991 for me. I wasn't alive then, so I don't really care too much. All right. Uh, everlasting God, uh, Godfather, everlasting Godstopper, uh, two, $2 said, "Is there an Aramaic variant for the word queef?" I don't think so. I don't think so. Surely not. Pickle 77 says, "In 1991, I was in high school." Jana says, "'91 was a great year." Kaisak said, "I went to Disney World in 1991." Randy Fitz says, "I was 21 in 1991." Damn. Damn, son. Where'd you find this? All right. Uh, 1991 say 1991 was the best year for music in all of history. I'll fight you over that. '91. Oh, no. '94 was better. '91 is my year zero. Um, suddenly I don't feel so old from gray eyes. I was in college from '91 to '94. So, okay. Uh, Chris Rock said it best. It said, "Whatever music was playing around the time that you started getting laid, that's going to be the music that you like for the rest of your life." So, apparently, uh, who said that it was '91? Was it AJ Everyday? Yeah. Apparently, AJ Everyday started getting laid in '91. Uh, Google what albums came out in '91. Metallica. Metallica. Uh, Pearl Jam's Ten. Nirvana's Nevermind. I would have said if the Tri Pearl Quest came out, but I would have said it was 2004. I think it's 2004. Yeah. Here we go. 2004s. All right. You've got Bad Religion's, The Empire Strikes First. Uh, let's see. Hot Fuss from The Killers. I think 2004 was also when American Idiot from Green Day came out. Most Deaf had an album. MF Doom had an album. Arcade Fire. I mean, it's pretty good. It's pretty good. Encore from Eminem came out. The Carter from Lil Wayne came out. 2004 was pretty good. J got laid. No. No. No. I didn't actually. You named one good band, and that was Bad Religion. [laughter] I'm just, I'm just saying. I'm just saying. Encore and American Idiot and Empire Strikes First and Hot Fuss. Sorry. I don't, I don't, I don't know if I could beat that. Also, I wasn't 16 in 2004. Where are you guys getting that idea? Wow. Okay. Had to translate that from the Greek and oh my god. Uh, $1.99 from Jackal of Wind74. It basically just said vaginal discharge. Did it? It may have. Yes. Yeah. From Usher came out in 2004. I mean, come on. Come on. Like 2004 was like the year for all kinds of music. I guess they think you look 38. Oh, well, thank you. I guess maybe. I don't know. I was 15 in '04 now that anyone asked is what Richard said. Bad Religion '91. What came out in '91 from Bad Religion? What came out in '91? Oh, Generator. Nah. Oh, in '91, I was like, that's before Gray Eyes. Where's the discard? Okay. Nah, in my opinion, had some good songs, but didn't actually like finally get their [ __ ] going like their good sound until The Process of Belief. Basically, it wasn't until is The Process of Belief is that when, uh, Wackerman? Yes. The first album to have Wackerman on it is really when they got good. Wackerman is the best drummer they've ever had by far. And I will, I will die on that hill. Brooks Wackerman is incredible. Okay. All right. Let's see. Ash, if it's the [ __ ] Welcome to the Black Parade. When did that song come out? Ah, no. That was '06. Okay. Yeah, it was a little later. All right. $5 there from Matthew Mullain says, "Yes, it is in Merriam-Webster slang, often vulgar, Oxford English denoting coarse American slang, etc." I didn't know that. I didn't know it was in there. A Fever You Can't Sweat Out by Panic. I don't know. Did that album come out? I don't know. '05. Still had some pretty good ones. Early '05, you had From Under the Cork Tree as well. Yeah. From Under the, yeah, there's all right. If you got any evidence for Juicer Paul, come out. Come out and play. I don't see any evidence for Jesus or Paul showing up just magically around here around these parts. I got some drums for you. That sounds ominous as [ __ ]. [laughter] And I don't know what that means. I was I was. Wait, what? What? I was I'm married longer than you've been alive. Really? Valyria. Uh, let's see. Huge tornado ripped through my area. Trees down and power outages, flooding everywhere. I hope you're safe. I was in a parking lot hunkering down as the tornado went through. Tornado ripped through. It was pretty bad. Yeah. Yeah, I've definitely been in that, uh, kind of situation. Uh, let's see. Bad Religion. How Could Hell Be Any Worse is their best album. How do you mute somebody on YouTube? Uh, $5. Thank you very much. But still also no. I mean, it was good. I mean, that's, that's, that's not their first one, is it? Or is, is that their first or their second one? Or am I thinking of New Maps of Hell? New Maps of Hell is later. Yeah. Is their first album? Yeah. Yeah, New Maps of Hell is later. Yeah. That's 2007. Their first album's in '82. No, you sound like somebody who would have liked their second album. All right. Pickle said, "Uh, hubby and I headed to see family in San Antonio next month. Can't wait. Love it there." San Antonio is a nice place. If, if you ever visit Texas and you want like a touristy place, go to San Antonio. That doesn't make any sense to go somewhere else. Not really. If you want to live in Texas, you go to DFW. Uh, you want to visit Texas, you go to San Antonio. If you want to visit Texas and also you are from Seattle and you don't really like getting out much, but you're going on this vacation because you just are forcing yourself to get out there, go to Austin. It's basically Seattle. Um, and then but hot instead of rainy. Uh, Houston is where people move to Texas if they're from New York City and they want to continue living in a [ __ ] hell hole. Um, also [clears throat] El Paso was Mexico. All right. Uh, a Hardy Har. Fine. How's it going?

It's going good. How are you doing?

Doing good. What you got?

Um, I actually had a follow-up question for something that I asked you like a while ago. Um, it was regarding the, uh, uh, Dionysius quote that Jesus uses, you know, "It's hard to kick against the pricks." So I, uh, actually ended up, I was able to have that conversation and I kind of did what you asked and said, like, um, can you walk me through that? Like, how do, how does that connect? How does that make any sense that Jesus said that? And basically what the person said was.

Oh, you were having a conversation with somebody else?

Correct. Yeah. So I asked you, I said, I, I had brought that quote up before, and they said, oh, no, that still makes sense in my head. And so I was like, okay. And so I was like, can you walk me through how Dionysius could have said something far before and then Jesus directly quotes him? Does that make any sense? And pretty much their.

The response was, um, it would be like, it's a popular play, and it's not. It's like Jesus quoting a popular play. So it'd be like if I was to say, um, "All the world's a stage," right? And I'm quoting Shakespeare. That doesn't make me any less real that I quoted Shakespeare, but I'm using a...

>> Why would you quote it, though?

>> That's, that's what, that's what I'm curious. How, what would you say to that?

>> I mean,

>> Why would Jesus go out of his way to say that?

>> Yeah, that's, that was my next thing. I was just like, how does that make any sense? And then they like, well, they're just, he's trying to give a a line that...

>> Why? He's trying to be like, like, look, I've been to plays. [laughter]

>> Like, like, why? Like, why is he trying to be like a snoody [ __ ]? Like, just trying to show that he knows material like [laughter] the [ __ ]?

>> Okay. Like, like it's so random. It...

>> I mean, just say what you need to say.

>> Yeah, like...

>> Why would he need to also throw in the line that's very clearly from Dianus doing the exact same thing in his play?

>> Okay, so that, yeah, that was, okay. That's what I forgot. It was the fact that they were doing the same thing.

>> The same thing.

>> Yeah. Dianis is talking to, uh, someone who is, uh, like his representative honor, or or someone who is persecuting his representatives honor.

>> Okay. All right.

>> Yeah. So, it's just weird. It's just...

>> So it's not, it's not just the fact that the quote is the same. It's the fact...

>> The same scenario.

>> Yeah.

>> Same scenario. Okay.

>> Yeah. So it's like, it's just weird. It, it'd be like, it, it'd be like, um, a family,

>> It'd be like a story of a family or something like that, like going through this hard time where the hus husband and the wife, they don't agree. And, um, God comes down and he's telling them, okay, you need to, you need to start working together and stuff. And then he says, "A house divided against itself cannot stand." And it's like, why did you say that? Like, that's like, what was the point of that? Like, that's very clearly an Abraham Lincoln quote. Like, why...

>> Why did you say that?

>> Because another thing that I had said, I was, I was talking about how the re, when you read through it, it clearly doesn't read as divinely inspired. It reads man-inspired because it's using like previous mythology. It's using previous plays. And nothing feels, no part, like very few parts of it feel unique.

>> Yeah.

>> And they brought up another quote, and I wish I could remember. I'll, I'll get it for next time. But there was another quote that was unique. But I'm like, okay, but when we start adding up how many parts of this are an original story and how many parts are just copying plays, at what point do we stop saying it's, he's just using a popular quote to get his point across, or the person who wrote it is directly just copying a story of something else?

>> I think like, and it would, God's point can get across just saying it. If Jesus was, if you were talking to Jesus, if Jesus suddenly like knocked me down to the ground because he's so [ __ ] wonderful, I guess. Like, I, I don't think that I would need a quote from a movie to make.

>> Yeah.

>> Why? Just [ __ ] talk to me, man. Like, why do you...

>> You're Jesus. You're...

>> Yeah. Like, I'm witnessing right now. Like, why, why do I need to know some lines from an old play? I guess. Cuz somebody, um, somebody, somebody, somebody also said like, oh, talking about a mustard, mustard seed as like the smallest seed. God knows that that's not the smallest seed, but that's the only seed that they knew would be the smallest seed. So he's trying to make it make sense to them. So he's using like...

>> Literature and things they know.

>> Or, and hear me out, someone who wrote this, the smallest seed to them was a mustard seed.

>> Right. And like, to me, like that makes sense. But then I don't, sometimes I don't know how to respond to. I'm like, okay, I mean, I can see that. Or it's like, okay, this person is talking to you, they're trying to get you to understand what they're saying. So they're using maybe something that you do understand. Where I'm like, well, I feel like Jesus could just make you understand without...

>> Movie.

>> Yeah. I, yeah. I don't, I don't think that I would need to hear quotes. Yeah. If Jesus showed up right here to me and stuff like that. And I don't think I'd be like, "But can you quote Anchorman?" Like, I don't, I don't, I don't think that I'd ask for that. I don't think that it's, and, and the line is such a, it's not a part that even, it doesn't, it doesn't do anything. Like he, he said, like, here's, let me pull it up here. So, um, the line doesn't actually, like, help really anything. Let's see. So when we take a look at it, it says, uh, "And he fell to the earth and heard a voice saying to them, saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest." This is all you need to say, my guy.

>> Like, you don't need to say the, we, like, it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. Like, why? Like, even if that is something that like applies because of an play where the scenario played out. You don't have to. You've already answered the [ __ ] question. Like, he says, "Who are you? I'm Jesus." You're done. You don't have to go on and say, "Oh, and also look what I can do."

>> Like...

>> Why?

>> Yeah.

>> Like, it's so unnecessary.

>> To the point to where I'm reading it in the King James version because in other versions, they just go ahead and just [ __ ] remove that.

>> Like...

>> Oh, yeah. I don't know.

>> Yeah, they just go ahead and remove it. It says, uh, "He fell to the ground and heard the voice saying to him, 'Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?' He asked, 'Who are you, Lord?' The reply came, 'I am Jesus. Who are you persecuting?' But get up and enter the city, and you will be told what to do.'" Yeah, they just skip over it. They skip over it.

>> When do they remove that? When did they remove that?

>> Uh, it's just in like more modern translations, they just, they just like, "Ah, now we're just not going to put that."

>> Is it because it was very obviously the quote? Or was there another reason for that? Do you know?

>> Uh, I don't know. Truth be told, I don't know. Uh, because it usually, it'll say like, oh, there's another line here like in in RVU, like it'll put like a footnote or something, but I didn't put a footnote there. Let's see. Uh, let's see. Yeah. So it is in, it is part of the Texas receptus. It is not, that line is actually not in the oldest codices that we have. The oldest two, uh, for Acts 9:5. It is in the Texas receptus, which is really weird because it is so, in other words, that's a part that is added in later on to some extent. Uh, from what we can tell. Uh, so the King, the King James version, it includes that line in Acts 9:5 because it relied on the Texas receptus, which incorporated readings from later manuscripts in Erasmus' Latin to Greek translations. So basically, they just kind of skip over it because it's not in the oldest manuscripts. But in other, in other verses, they'll say, oh, hey, this, this isn't in the oldest manuscripts, but we'll put in a footnote. They don't even attempt to address it, uh, in, uh, in like the NRSVU, which is really weird. I think it might be because they recognize that it's something that's very out of place and doesn't make sense.

>> Okay. And it kind of makes it easier to track down where it came from because it's a quote. So...

>> Yeah.

>> Yep.

>> Okay. All right. Thanks so much. That's, that's all I had.

>> Yeah. Not a problem. Thanks. Thanks for coming up.

>> Appreciate it. Bye.

>> Uh, let's see. Super chat over there. Uh, $2 from Jay Wizard said, "I appreciate you, Jiren. Quef up the good work." Backhanded compliment if I've never heard it. Uh, let's see. And then we've got, uh, $4.99 from Ken the Atheist says, "Who started this queef thing?" It's [ __ ] Dr. Am. Dr. Am found out that, oh, if I just send a super chat, then, uh, Jiren is forced to read this according to his own promise that he would read something. That's an actual, like, that's actually what a gym sounds like. Dr. Am. She sounds like this. She sounds like someone [laughter] sounds like someone from Texas Arcana, possibly even Hope. All right. Uh, [laughter] anyways, yeah, it's Dr. Uh, and are those queefs logged onto the queef counter? Yes, they are. Absolutely, they are. It's terrible. Yeah. Ridiculous. So, we're now up to 391 keywords. We're up to 391. The good thing is I'm about to hop off, so that's good. Uh, if anybody else has any evidence for Jesus or Paul, come on up. Otherwise, I'm going to go ahead and peace on out of this [ __ ] Peace on out. Uh, Middle Texas, embodiment of Texas. I don't even know what this is saying. Uh, sounds like Ken Hovind. What? Don't you put that evil on me. All right. Uh, Ace of Raids. I like that. Yeah. Yeah. We'll go, we'll go raid Ace. Unless, who, who else is on? Uh, I, I heard that. Is Bri on? Let me check real quick. Uh, who is the Bible guy on? Is the Bible guy? Is that the Bible guy? I think the Bible guy might be on. Is it the Bible guy or is it Christine the Godless is on? Who's on? Or are they just on a panel? I don't know who's. Oh, Christina is live. All right. All right. Cyber's coming up. Oh my god. Okay. The pre, the, the prototype $1.99 said qua quaave qua qua qua qua qua qua. And then a que. Ran out of space. Well, so, so somebody brought up, um, a potential evidence, um, for at least the existence of Mary and there's potential evidence of Jesus. Um, they found a cathedral, uh, the cathedral of perpetual flatulence. I need to stop bringing that guy up. This is what I need to do. I was about to search it, too. Who's Josh? Dalton and Christina are on Josh's pan. Who's, who's Josh? Do I know Josh? Do I know Josh? We know Josh, right? Is Josh cool? I never knew you. Josh is chill. Okay. So, we'll go raid Josh. That's what we'll do. We'll go raid Josh. Uh, I don't think I've ever done that before. We, we'll go into Josh. Uh, that giggy. Uh, because, uh, uh, uh, Christina and, and the Bible, the Bible guy are in there. Uh, oh my god. All right. $5 from that real riverside fool. "Sinister Que coming back for more to even the score. Antiqu." All right, so that's two. H, there we go. Uh, we are now at 401. The 401. Isn't that a cleaning supply? I'm pretty sure it's spray or whatever. 401. 401 Q's. Great. Awesome. All right. Thanks, guys. Uh, all right. Who is Josh? Uh, does Josh have a super, like, super, does he have a specific username? Do he have a specific username? What's, what's it? Oh, it's 409. That's 409. I thought it was 401. Uh, what does he have a specific username? Josh 89. Is that what it is? Josh 89. Is that what it's called? If that's what it's called, then I'll see you guys over there at Josh's live. I, I, I can, I've got the thing here because I can see that Christina and the Bible Guy, wherever Christina and the Bible Guy are, just follow them. They're over there together. All right. All right. I will see you guys later. Uh, thank you to anybody and everybody who stuck around longer than 30 seconds. 35 second gang. Rise up. Also, peace out, girl scout. Put me down for some thin mints. Uh, and over there on YouTube. Thank you very, very much, uh, for the super chats and everything like that. Thank you for becoming members. I saw that some people became members over the weekend. That is [ __ ] awesome. Thank you. Thank you very, very much, uh, for becoming members over the weekend there. Uh, if you are a member, uh, if you're a member of the highest tier, I think there's two tiers. There's $2.99 and there's $5.99 a month. Uh, you either one will get you, uh, access to the member-only videos. Uh, and then if you're the highest tier, you also get access to any videos that are just like, earlier on, like early access to any videos, any and all videos. Um, let's see. Uh, also, uh, you get, you know, little badge, everything that says, you know, 35 second gang or whatever. It's got the little, little star there. And then also, uh, you get the emotes. And we actually have a new emote because, uh, enough of you became members that YouTube is like, "Hey, here's another emote space or whatever." And we unlock another one when we hit 50 members. But thank you very, very much for becoming members. Thank you for your support. Uh, that really means a lot to us. Uh, we are working on getting this book out. We are pretty [ __ ] close to this next book here. Uh, so thank you very, very much for your help. It is absolutely helping, uh, there with Matthew in ways that you guys don't even know. Matthew has been out of a job, uh, for quite some time, and so this is definitely a way to kind of help, uh, uh, keep him, uh, um, alive, him and his family, but also, um, help out with, uh, with, with putting out the book and everything like that as opposed to having to worry about other things there. So, um, at least temporarily. So thank you very, very much, guys. Uh, and, uh, I will see you guys, uh, later. You've been, you and you have been tube.