Transcription
I have failed as an individual without Islam. Meet Charlie, who is originally from the UK and is a former professional football player. He has been living in the Middle East and recently, just under a year ago, he moved to Malaysia where he officially started his journey with Islam. He married a beautiful, gorgeous, and Malay lady in Malaysia, and I'm here to ask him about his whole journey, his experience with Malaysia, and a few other questions.
Hi everybody. First, tell us about your story. How did you end up in Malaysia? When did your journey with Islam start? When did you meet the love of your life, who happened to be a gorgeous Malaysian lady? Take me through the beginnings of your journey with Malaysia.
Okay. Um, first of all, thank you very much for having me here. It's very kind of you. Um, the start with Islam, I would say, was three or four years ago. I was living in the Middle East. So, I was living in Dubai before I moved to Malaysia. Um, living in a Muslim country helped, by having a lot of Muslim friends in the UK and also in Dubai, and traveling all around the Middle East. That got me to experience the way in which Muslims treat one another, good and bad. Um, and also discussions on nights out and even with customers. Um, I would see them get up from a meeting and go and pray and come back. And even when I put pressure on them professionally, they would remain relatively calm and composed. I'd dive deeper and asked them why, um, why are they able to stay so composed? And they said, "Everything is because of Allah and their religion." So, wow, I took an interest into this. Um, I took an interest into Christianity, Buddhism. Got to the stage in the final 12 months to six months of my six, seven years in Dubai, where I knew I had to go and explore the area of religion, not Islam religion, all of possible ones, and to do that, in my opinion, it required me to leave my job, move to a different country, um, start like a soul-searching journey.
Yeah. Well, ju just just answer the questions that I had internally, which is, if I've achieved my first goal of becoming a professional football player, even though I didn't achieve the heights that I wish I had, or that I arguably should have, I still was paid to play football for eight years. So, if that didn't make me happy truly, and then I had great people in my life. I don't have a sad story with my family or friends or nothing at all. But I had this feeling, which now I've been a practicing Muslim for four years, and it talks about your soul so much. It was my soul. Finances were okay. I felt comfortable in the way that I was looking. I was healthy, both physically, mentally, but my soul was screaming. So, we could safely say the spiritual side was not fulfilled back then. And I didn't know why. Now I know why.
But you said you've researched all the religions. So, what brought you to Islam, and where does your wife coming into the picture?
Well, when we first, when we first met, which was, um, over social media, it was over a dating app. That's how we. You were living in Dubai. I was living in Dubai. I knew, um, I would be leaving Dubai at some stage. So, I started asking myself, of all these countries I've traveled to, where would I see myself living? And I had a short list of Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, and Malaysia. And Malaysia was the country out of the three that I traveled to the least. Saudi, I've probably been to 60, 65 times. Indonesia, yay, a lot. We went in. Saudi was our main market. Um, which was great. Indonesia, I'd been to a number of times, but I'd only seen it from a tourist perspective. I didn't really understand how it would be living, visas, business. And the final time I went to Indonesia, I really didn't like the way that the expats were treating the place. And I can't say that for all cities in Indonesia, but you just didn't feel like fitting in. And the business trip I had in in Malaysia almost cemented that I wanted to live here.
But when we first met over social media, it was almost the complete opposite of what you would expect a romance story to be. It wasn't jokes and wooing and flowers and okay. It was, "Who are you? Where are you from?" And it doesn't mean where are you from in terms of what state. It means where are you from as in, have you had heartbreak? Have you had trauma? Have you got a good relationship with your family? Have you not? What do you expect from a marriage? Do you ever want to get married? Do you ever want to have kids? Do you believe in God? Where's your deen? Skipping all the surface-level, shallow stuff, just straight to it. Yeah. And that, that was mutual. Um, otherwise, it would seem a little bit intense from my side, but I got the intensity back, which was the catalyst for me to then book a flight, jump on a plane, um, come and see my wife now, for for four, four or five days. It was nice. We'd come, meet, sightsee, get to know each other. And so, everything you imagine came true. Even, even from the first time that I met her at the airport, she very kindly picked me up from in the airport in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysian hospitality. Yeah. And I could see from her body language, she was excited. You know, that nervous energy of excitement. She wasn't shy. It was just that like she wanted it to go well. Think she'd been speaking to me on the phone. We mirrored each other in lots of ways. Even though our upbringing, our gender, our nationalities are completely opposite, our actual morals and principles and hopes and dreams for the future were the same. So, she wanted it to go well.
But you were then already Muslim, or you were already, but you were already familiar with the religion, and because you narrowed down the places that you want to wanted to move into, they were all Muslim countries. So, you already knew you want to explore that journey from there.
I've bought that time through the hard work I did in Dubai. But in hindsight, what really would have been ideal is save the money that I did in Dubai, but read the Quran, go to the masjids, mosques, learn. But I basically put religion and Islam on the side and knew in the back of my mind that I would come back to it. But it, it got to the stage where it was bigger and stronger than me, where for whatever reason, and I still don't know, and hopefully in five, 10, 50 years' time, the answer will be clear. I don't know why I was pushed internally so much to change location, change job, even change some of the people you're around, change what you watch, change what you consume. I don't know why, but the power was strong. Oh, wow. Strong. Oh, we could say true calling, right? And true destiny, really.
But you officially uh reverted and took your Shahada in Malaysia in, uh, do you know Jawi in Kuala Lumpur? J A W I. It's, it stands for something. But Jawi is where I went and took my Shahada. Okay. On the 3rd of February this year. This year. Wow. Congratulations.
Touching on, you know, when you said about my wife being born into Islam, that's a massive help for me because I spent six weeks in Ramadan with my new family-in-law. Her mother, father, brother, and sister are particularly pious, particularly strict. And that has given my wife a fantastic education in terms of reading, uh, Quran in Arabic, surahs, teaching me, helping me become Imam at home. But she has her own story as well, where I've been a typical defensive husband at times online. But I've learned through Islam and through being patient that actually, let people make their own assumptions and let people make up their own minds because they've seen her at times not wear a hijab. They've seen where, you know, it's me on camera, sometimes she's on camera. And I've read a few things that weren't particularly nice. But where I'm particularly proud of my wife is whilst I accelerated and just was going to majids and reading the Quran, practicing, praying five times a day before I took my Shahada, she was watching me do all of this, and she took it upon herself to increase her own level of practicing. Oh, wow. Which of course strengthened the relationship I have with her family because they're now looking at me instead of a Matt Sally with tattoos that wasn't a Muslim who lived in Dubai on a long-distance relationship. They're seeing a guy who's actually committed, committed to Islam first and foremost, and without pushing or bullying his future wife, she's following my lead, which is the best way to go. Has actually a great influence on on her as well. Yeah.
What was like the biggest surprise that you did not anticipate to happen when you reverted to Islam officially?
My own ego, the the power, and also detriment to my own life, of my own ego. Because I have a lot of Christians in my family, and of course, so many people in other religions, they consider us all of us as all of us as, um, children of God. And by understanding and embracing fully Islam, I understood that I am actually not a child of God. I, I am a servant, and I do need to, um, do things that are compulsory. And of course, there is Sunnah to do extra as well. And why I say my own ego is, I am a protector by nature. I am a provider by nature. I, I really do value male roles and female roles and and collaboration and working well. However, there was too much of an element of control there. Like, I would take pride in paying for everything, but I would take pride in kind of deciding certain things, but I was never allowing it's called Qadar. It's called destiny in the sixth pillar of. For example, I could move to Malaysia, hypothetically, set up a business like your H2O Infusions. Try it, guys. That wasn't deliberate, but it's an example, right? Bear with me on this. You can set up a business and you think, "Wow, the customer, they love the product. It's great. I've got a supply chain. I can get the product in whenever I want. I can sell it to people." Then a pandemic could hit something like that that's completely out of our control. Yeah. I would be the type of person that would either procrastinate, wouldn't pull the trigger on a business because I'd be worrying too much because of what I got taught in Dubai, business development and market share and PESTEL and SWOT. Yeah. Like strength, weakness, opportunity, threats. I'd be looking at all of it and end up not pulling the trigger. Like I didn't pull the trigger on Islam reverting quicker. I would have basically talked about all the positives and negatives and in the end, just done nothing because I'm trying to control all things like a pandemic that you can't even control. Whereas now, I, I work hard. I'll be honest, but what will be, will be. You can't not marry somebody, or you can't not revert to a religion that's in your heart or your destiny. You can't set up a business because you're worried about something that's out of your control. Now, in my brain, to summarize where I'm saying with the ego, for me to live 36 years as somebody that took advice from experts, asked questions, but ultimately was accountable for their own decisions, for me to then be like, "You know what? Certain things in Islam, I think are difficult. Certain things I think are beautiful, but no matter what it is, if it's stated in Hadith or Quran, I'm doing it." To let go and submit that, that control and power, put that ego to one side. You know that the, it's crazy where there's been times where I've felt tired and been like, "Ah man, I've got to pray." I've always known I will, but it's having that battle in my head of, you know, you're going to, whether you want to or you don't want to, get on with it. So, it's like a big mindset shift as well about what role are you playing in this life, right? I'm not my own boss anymore.
But you mentioned, uh, if I may ask, that there are some difficult, uh, parts of Islam, which I'm sure there were some parts on your journey that were challenging. What were the most difficult parts for you, or maybe still are?
Zina, lowering my gaze. The way that I am wired as a male. Um, I'm incredibly loyal. However, um, I am male. I have throughout my life been prone to, now I call it whispers, Shaitan. I don't want to just blame Shaitan. Sometimes it's ill-discipline from me. I can have my heart into a relationship, but my eyes would still look. For me to understand that and not deny it and not pretend that I'm, uh, cold-blooded when I'm warm-blooded, I understand that for men, the biggest test and one of the main reasons that men don't go to Jannah, why they go to hell, is because they can't control their eyes and their their body parts. They can't control it. What I even look at online. Even if it's, I haven't typed something in, something pops up, that's my own fault for not filtering the search. I need to be accountable. And then on the flip side, understanding that one of the biggest challenges for women is they have all of this beauty, is to is to hide the beauty. So, for men, it's to not look at it, and for women to hide it. And it's deliberately set up that way as a test because we have to be challenged. We have to see whether our faith is strong.
At this current stage, what does Islam mean to you on a personal level?
Islam is my protection. I have failed as an individual without Islam. Um, I've achieved, like I said, at being at times a good brother, at times being a good friend, being good family, achieving a good job or football. Those are achievements that I can talk about, but we are who we are behind closed doors. It's not what people necessarily even see now. And I am accountable enough to be honest that behind closed doors, say before I met my wife, actually, um, I wasn't going to become the man that I believe I'm destined to become. I don't believe I'm someone that's supposed to have, uh, individual success. I want success as a group of friends, as a family, but also as as a community, whether it's Islam or whether it's Malaysia, you know, when they say Malaysia, Bali, Malaysia, Bali. I, I actually genuinely do want to use my heart and my mind and my mouth and also finance through Zakat, charity, to to to help others. And I think that's partly why I was feeling so frustrated with myself where I'd get a promotion or I'd do something well, but I didn't feel good. The full satisfaction that you expected, but it made me realize like, I'm, I'm not supposed to live like a lone wolf focused like a shark. I'm, I'm, I'm not that person. So, Islam is my protection where instead of it being, I am trying to write my own manual and my own guide to life, I have the Quran. It gives me, you do this at certain times, you don't do this. It's recommended you do that. It's Sunnah to do that. It, it gives me a full scale of what's advised, what is Haram, and what is expected. The guidance through life. Yeah. And then combine that with my good intentions anyway, with my experience in life, I feel very confident that no matter where I live, no matter where I go, I will, Inshallah, bring good. And that, that makes me feel good.
Go back to one of the questions. You said one of the hardest things, and I said Zina, lowering my gaze, number one, blasphemy, because as in swearing, because I would swear to accentuate something. Like instead of "sadila," I would be like, "Oh, this is F-word delicious," or if it was really bad, it was, "This is F-terrible." And that is partly where I'm from, the football culture. So, that was a real hard one to stop. But as my wife, I lost my witness, but my wife is sat here. Um, I think since January the 11th, and it's now, what, end of May? Yeah. Almost six months. Yeah. It's, uh, maybe two or three times that I've said a curse word. Wow. That's amazing progress. It's ridiculous. I mean, I haven't seen you swearing before, but I can imagine the European vibe and the football guy that I was becoming very casual way of expressing anything, right? I just see me going talking crazy.
You were asking about my family. So, I spent Christmas with them, um, in the UK. It was the first time actually that they got to meet my wife as well. We've been back a couple of times, but the first time we went back was, uh, in December. It was very cold, and she liked it. Oh, no. Hope everyone likes it. Yeah. I don't know. I don't like it. But they, they met her, and I think they knew that I would one day marry her. But I don't think any of my family expected me to come to Malaysia in the January. Made the conscious decision then, even though I've been coming back and forward since July, to put down some rent properly, live here, look into visas, etc., commit to the country, but actually go and take my Shahada and practice. Because even though I was looking into Islam for probably the last three years, I hadn't been telling my family about this. I've got some atheists in my family, I've got some Christians in my family, some agnostic, um, people in my family. And even though they know I've got a lot of Muslim friends, and they know that my partner, fiance at the time, was Muslim. Yeah. They didn't know that I was actually daily looking into this.
So, how did your family, uh, react when you gave them the revelation that you are now Muslim?
Um, a few of them assumed, like a lot of people, that I was doing it because my intentions were to get married. Mmm. Um, which is a failure on my part because I should have shared with them that I'd been reading the Quran for quite a while. Yeah. I, I should have been more open with them. Family, some of them took two or three days to then come back to me and say, "Well done." Some of them, some of them straight away said, "I'm not surprised." Some of them said, "Oh, I know very little about Islam, but I know you're not somebody that just jumps into things, so can I read the Quran?" Which in itself is like, "Alhamdulillah, that's a blessing." And then there were a few that were, um, a little bit rude, a little bit, um, skeptical. Yeah. You know, we talk about Islamophobia and it's lack of education, and it's also false information. Um, Absolutely. From certain parts of the world. Yeah. Regarding Islam, people need to unlearn a lot when it comes to Islam. Right. Beautiful way of saying it. I couldn't agree.
Which it's so amazing that what you are doing right with your content, and you are spreading your journey as you said, in a very relatable, real, and honest way, which helps to show that real image and and a real journey and your discoveries that you are encountering. And now a little bit on, uh, your, uh, marriage, uh, multicultural marriage. Was there any like a massive surprise, Malay culture versus British culture?
I'm trying to think because so much of the conversations were done so early, even before proposal stage, and being introduced to my wife's family, any discussions of dowry. My wife and I, we had these conversations right from the get-go. But where, where I did struggle initially, um, I can't speak for my wife. I, I know what she would say because I've asked her these questions, but where I was struggling initially was, I love to say, "It is what it is." Mmm. Black is black, white is white, yes is yes, no is no. If it's an opinion on something, then it's not a fact, it's just right or wrong. And the way in which I would articulate and speak would sometimes, even if I didn't raise the tone of my voice, just the the directness and bluntness of how I would speak would sometimes make my wife, uh, at the time fiance, almost like hold back what she wanted to say. But over time, I have become softer and understood Malay culture of sometimes not always saying yes and no so bluntly. You can say Inshallah, even though I don't necessarily agree with that. It's not in my nature to say Inshallah. Oh, yeah. But understanding that sometimes you can upset and offend people, and my intentions are not to do so. And as time has gone by, over the nearly two years we've been together, um, she's become a little bit more western where she'll say to me, "Zang, yes." No. Uh, no. So, I look at her sometimes and think, "Oh, okay."
Is there something in Malay culture that you've noticed in your wife that you wish Europeans had or Europeans borrow that you've never seen growing up?
I can't speak for all Westerners, and I can't speak for all Malaysians. So, there's a disclaimer there. And then, however, stereotypes are there for a reason, and I am still to this day shocked at how unbothered my wife is, and many other, uh, Malay women. I say Malay because I don't really know a lot of Malaysian Indian or Malaysian Chinese, but Malay, how unbothered they are with money. As long as you protect and provide, you feel safe. I'm loyal to her. I involve her in my plans. I provide rent, food, clothes, etc. She doesn't care if it's a Charles and Keith bag or a Chanel bag. She doesn't care if we go business class or economy. She doesn't even care if we don't even go on a plane and we go on a train or we walk. She doesn't care. Whereas I lived in Dubai for nearly seven years, and I'm from England. Women do care. Again, not all, but a lot. So, you ask the question as a man, is she with me because I am trying my best to be a good person and I'm nice to be with, or is it because she thinks, "Actually, this guy prides himself on paying for the bills and doing stuff. I like that. I'll say and do the right things at the beginning. Let's have a baby, and then there's no prenuptial agreement. Let's take half of his money." Because that happens so much in the West, especially footballers that I played with that, um, had a better career, a higher achieving career than I had, where they earned a lot more money. They got divorced, and they had taken advantage of it. It is unfair.
Did you notice that Malaysians are sometimes misunderstood by other communities, and if so, what did you notice and how would you address it?
Yeah, friends back in the UK, because they'd been to Thailand on holiday, and because they'd been to Indonesia on holiday, but they hadn't been to Malaysia, which is one of the reasons actually why I ended up living in Malaysia. If you want to go on holiday, you can go to bordering countries, but to live, sourcing that their largest GDP contribution would be tourism like the other two countries. And I advised them and said, "No, like Malaysia, one, there's 14 states, very, very different. I've only been to six of them so far, but, um, Malaysia in terms of, um, what they do, people do for a living, how they view tourism, how tourists view Malaysia, it's, it's, it's very, very, very different." And also, obviously, the times personally I've been to those two countries that I mentioned, Indonesia and Thailand, with some of my. We went to the parts where we didn't see any Muslims or we didn't see people practicing. We didn't see people praying. So, I'm sure they probably thought without coming here that I was living in some. When I told them Kuala Lumpur, they probably thought it was like Bangkok, you know, or Bali. It's not. I think they thought that it would probably just be me leaving Dubai and coming here and it just being a bit of a, a bit of a party. And it's, it's been, you can probably even tell from this interview, I've gone from someone that was a lot more, I would say, carefree, but I have, as I've got older, become more serious and responsible.
If someone is on a similar journey like you, it's maybe, uh, where you were two years ago, maybe it's lacking something in life, or maybe it's already exploring that Islam could be the answer. What would you advise to those people searching for answers or searching for the spiritual guidance?
Very fortunate I was to live in the West, then live in the Middle East, and now live in Southeast Asia. The reason why I say that is because the news that you read, depending on where you live, is different. And if you're living in one part of the world, you're only subject to that, that news story. Whereas for me, because I was in oil and gas when I was living in the Middle East, I would have to look at things that were going on maybe with Russia, with China, with America, with Saudi. So, it allowed me to understand, "Oh, hang about, so Russia, Ukraine's going on, but they're talking about it that way, but they're talking about it that way." Once I understood that from a, like, a political and economic point of view, that allowed me to then open up the topic of religion. "Okay, so they're teaching me this in the church, but in a mosque, they're teaching me this, but that Muslim is doing this, but that Muslim is doing that, but the Quran says this." A lot of conflicting information. Yeah. So, my advice would be, um, listen to people, ask questions, don't just do your own research. Go and ask people who have less knowledge than you, the same knowledge as you, or more knowledge than you. But ultimately, fact-find yourself because someone like me, that truly believes in judgment day, when judgment day comes, you are on your own. Like, we're sat here together, and we're sharing and opening with everybody, but come judgment day, according to what Islam has taught me and what I believe, you, you have to be accountable for what you decide. And you can't always use the the lazy answer of, "Oh, but I wasn't born into it. Oh, but I didn't know." The information is out there. It is out there. But there is also some very false and damaging information. So, it's good to read the false, and it's good to read the real, and then you can kind of piece it together. But you have to, there's something written all throughout the Quran where if Allah intends for someone to have their heart sewn shut. Yeah. It's written that way. So, I've prayed to Hajjud that certain each morning that certain family members that aren't religious or aren't open to Islam will have their hearts open to it. But I am also a servant and understand that if it's Allah's decision that certain people believe or don't believe, explore, don't explore, it is what it is. All I can do really is be completely honest with my own journey, my own beliefs. That everyone is on their own journey. And just because somebody might be 20, 50, 70, doesn't mean that they won't take their Shahada. And just someone that's been practicing as a Muslim for their whole life, it doesn't mean that they might not fall off and then maybe come back again. We're like, we, we have to be very careful how we judge and assume things because everyone is battling. Uh, Shaitan attacks all of us, and, um, behind smiles, there are a lot of people that actually, um, need a bit of inspiration and a bit of help.
Another thing in Malaysia, from what I've noticed, um, fresh Muslims or newly reverted Muslims are very privileged and lucky with is the community. Yes. Is that true? Uh, is that what your experience is as well? Obviously, you were the lucky one to be married into a Muslim and Muslim family, um, that came with your wife. Um, but for someone who is not coming with that dynamic, uh, how can they connect? How can they find those people to clarify, to help them on the journey?
First of all, contact us. We can help. But all jokes aside, let's say hypothetically, you contacted me saying, "I've just reverted to Islam, or I'm curious and I want to learn more about Islam." What would I do? I would recommend you to something called Al-Qadim. Al-Qadim, um, which is the, uh, religious organization, Islamic school that I am fortunate to attend. It is absolutely fantastic. Um, there's a number of sheikhs there that have taught me a lot. And there is, um, Dato' Sheikh Hussein Yee, who's a Chinese Malaysian revert, and he is worldwide renowned. I'm sure whoever's watching this, they know who, um, Hussein is. Wow. And that's in KL. He's incredibly famous, incredibly pious and righteous. And I think that is one of the biggest things that I would say to any revert or anyone that is considering embracing Islam. You need to be prepared for the fact that you are going to have to say no to things that were very easy to say yes before. And things like Zakat, charity, kindness, lowering your gaze. You, you're going to have to say yes to certain things that you might think concerning. Or, like, for example, me, if I talk about Zakat, two and a half percent minimum. I know come next February, it will be 12 months. Any money I've had, not just, um, income, but just literal money that isn't tied into property, etc., if it's lay iodor for 12 months, two and a half percent, no matter what. Now, when I first heard about this, I thought, "Whoa." So, I've worked really hard in Dubai. I didn't live the flashy lifestyle, driving the big cars or living in the nice apartments. I saved, invested to be able to buy some time, to, by the grace of Allah, to sort my soul out, find a wife and marry my fiance, and find a country that matches my values. Now I've done that, I'm now going to get two and a half percent on everything that I haven't got invested into stuff. Why am I being penalized? And again, that goes back to what I said earlier. That's my ego looking at the world in a materialistic way, thinking, "That's my money. I've worked hard for that. I've saved that. Why am I being penalized?" It's not your money. It's not your money. And if you give, Allah will bless you in ways that you can never, ever, ever even comprehend. So, if you're going to come into Islam and think that your life's going to remain the same, no. I had to move countries. I had to move away from certain people because I knew that to get my deen where it's at now and where it's in gonna end up, I had to move countries and be around different people because I wasn't as strong as I think I am. I knew I wasn't strong enough to be around customers that would be drinking. I wouldn't necessarily start drinking, but it's like I'd be around them, and you know, I could have a bad day, and it would only take one time where you just sway you to the wrong direction. And, for example, if you have a sip of alcohol, correct me if I'm wrong, if anyone, what I'm about to say isn't correct, what from memory, what I read was, as a Muslim, if you drink alcohol, your prayers for the next 40 days are invalid. Yes, you can repent, etc. And we only, only Allah knows if Allah accepts our repentance. But when I looked at things like, "Wow, I've even got to deactivate Netflix. I've got to stop looking at certain things that I used to look. I've got to deactivate certain social medias because it's all programmed to what I used to look at when I was living in the West." And the amount of times I'd be sat on the bed with my wife on my old Instagram that I used privately, and I'd go on the search page, and my intentions was to just look at some of my friends' stories, and something would pop up like a girl in the gym or a bikini, and I'd be like, "Ah," like it's almost like, "Whoa." And that is somebody coming from somebody that actively wouldn't mind, would enjoy looking at something like a. Well, you created that algorithm in the past. It's my own fault. But, but I've got family members that I call family, but they're not actually my blood. I call them aunties. I used to kiss them on both cheeks and hug them. To not even be able to now to shake their hand. They don't understand. For me, sometimes I forget, and I'm like, but it's like you have to have that intention. And Al-Qadim, they taught me the, the, for me to stay strong, three I's. Number one, intention. What are your intentions? Even if you do things wrong, but you didn't intend it, Allah is the most merciful, most feared, but most merciful. As long as your intentions are right, and you repent, you're okay. Um, which it means consistency. Be consistent in what you do, what you say, how you practice your intentions, and, um, uh, your, your Iman. Literally, try as best as you can to do what is taught. Try and be a good servant. If you stick with those three things, you'll, you'll do okay.
Coming back a little bit more to culture in Malaysia, what is the most beautiful and the least beautiful part of the Malaysian culture in your eyes?
The most beautiful for me is that it still has its traditions. That's what I love. And I hope and pray that Malaysia, because the internet's a powerful thing, and everything gets diluted and washed and stuff like this. I hope Malaysia keeps its tradition because whether Malay Malaysian tradition is better than Italian or Greek, that's not what I'm talking about. It's the fact you have tradition, you had tradition, and you still have it. That is beautiful because it allows me and you and other people, other expats, to come here and learn because there's something to learn. If you're sold out and you don't have your tradition anymore, we haven't got anything to learn. Yeah. You know, we, we can't, like, we can't almost become, we can't fall in love with your country because what are we falling in love with? We're falling in love with individuals rather than with culture. The culture of Malaysia, whether it's Islamically through Ramadan and Hari Raya, it was amazing. Absolutely amazing. But the culture in terms of where food makes a huge, um, importance for Malaysians. Um, my mom, bless her, she tried for so many years whilst my mother and father were together, and my mother's remarried, he's a great guy, considering my stepfather is an amazing guy, for about 15 years, big shout out to you if you watch. But she, hello, she tried. My mom tried desperately with my father, my sister, and I to sit at the dinner table and eat. She put all the hard work into cooking. She wanted us to eat. I'd end up just being a typical teenager in my bedroom, do whatever I want. La, my father, he would eat in front of the television and stuff like this. This wasn't because of a lack of respect for my mother. It was a lack of tradition, a lack of culture. Whereas, if you go back to my mom's mum, oh, they'd all eat at the table because the tradition was still there. It shows how a generation or two, it can dilute it. Yeah. And that's what, sorry. That's what I love about the culture, the tradition in Malaysia.
What's the least favorite? I know you are trying to avoid it.
What I said earlier about the bluntness. People would say things to me, and I would take what they said on face value, but really they were just being shy and don't want to say no. But they should have just said no because I took what they said as yes because they said yes. Yeah. Yeah.
What is now the part of the Malaysian culture you cannot imagine living without?
The simplicity, ease, and also in some ways, expectation of practicing as a Muslim. I had a panic. I was walking with my wife in the mall. We stayed in the mall for too long, and I suddenly realized, "Oh, like, it's time to pray." Like, we were actually at the window where it's almost going to go into the next prayer. And at that stage, like, that feeling was like, she said to me, "Don't worry, there's a surah on level five." Alhamdulillah. This is easy. I go in, everybody's performing Wudu, everybody's praying. "Assalamualaikum, how are you, brother?" Done. Back down into the into the mall. Whereas my friends that have reverted in to Islam in England, they don't always have that luxury. They got to find places to pray. It's not as easy. If I did have to leave Malaysia, I'd be sad, but I would be looking for a country that has what Malaysia has. And also like the community and the facility for Muslims to practice on a daily basis. And there's nobody there, cuz yeah, there's so many people. It makes you feel the part of the, the right. Even though at the beginning, some people, when I didn't know how to do Tahajjud myself, I had to look on my phone. So, I do Qatya, I do my, my, my Rakat, everything would be fine. But then when it came to Tahajjud, I was a bit unsure of how to pronounce things correctly. So, I would open up my phone. And I know you're not supposed to have more than three movements is your break your prayer. But again, it's your intention. I'm learning. I'm not that embarrassed that I won't go to a surah, look like a fool. I'm there practicing. Some people looked at me like I was insane, just really confused because it was so clear that I didn't really know what I was doing. But what they hadn't realized is I hadn't even taken my Shahada at that point. I had, I went to the national mosque for Asr, and I didn't know at that stage that the certain prayers being one of them, but Imam didn't speak side. Certain, oh, you have to know these sequences. So, I was there like, "When were we going to start?" I came out of the masjid furious, saying to my wife, "He's lazy, like he didn't even do his job, like we did all the work, and I don't even know what I'm doing." Like, "Oh, this is so annoying." You said to me, "You're saying it's a Sakura. It's supposed to be side effects." Things. Good that you waited to make that comment to your wife. Mr. Imam, you're right. The, not, not even reverted Muslim is wrong. For me, practicing as a Muslim, wanting to be a good father one day, Inshallah, be a good husband. Malaysia is the best place on the planet for me right now.
What a beautiful. Thanks for letting us be. Beautiful way to wrap up this super interesting conversation. Thank you so much.