Transcription
Virginia Guptill's dad and attorney are reportedly questioning how she died. Guptill was a vocal and visible accuser of Jeffrey Epstein and Prince Andrew. She was found dead on her farm outside Perth, Australia, over the weekend, less than a month after she made headlines again after posting a picture of herself in a hospital bed, saying she had just days to live. There are also now reportedly questions about what will happen to the money that Prince Andrew paid her in an out-of-court settlement in 2022.
We're on the case presented by Law and Crime. I'm Chris Stewart. We have a lot to get to in this story involving Virginia. But before we talk about that case, I want to tell you about our new podcast that just dropped on Plus. It is "Karen: The Retrial." It's really the best place for a recap of the Karen Read case, everything that is going on in her retrial that is literally happening right now and what's to come as the new trial is heating up. You can find "Karen: The Retrial" exclusively on the Wondery app or in Apple Podcasts. You can click the link in the description below to listen right now.
Now, let's get to what we know at this point involving Virginia Roberts Guptill. On April 25th, she was found dead at her home outside Perth, Australia. Guptill was American, but she moved to Australia in 2020 with her husband. The couple had three children, all teenagers. Guptill and her husband had been in the middle of a custody dispute at the time of her death.
Some members of Guptill's family say they aren't ready to determine how she died. Her dad, who's named Sky Roberts, told TMZ he wants her death investigated. He points to social media posts like this one that his daughter made in 2019 where she writes, quote, "I am making it publicly known that in no way, shape, or form am I suicidal. I have made this known to my therapist and GP. If something happens to me, in the sake of my family, do not let this go away and help me protect them. Too many evil people want to see me quieted."
Guptill's lawyer also spoke to UK media outlet The Sun and said, quote, "When I got the call, I was like, are you joking?" Because there was no sign that was something she was considering.
To understand what Virginia may have been dealing with at the time of her death, you have to go back to the beginning to understand how so many people learned her name. Guptill claimed that Jeffrey Epstein trafficked her when she was a minor. She says that she was forced to have sex with Prince Andrew three times when she was just 17 years old.
This is the now-infamous picture that was included in her lawsuit against the prince. It shows Guptill and Prince Andrew and convicted trafficker Ghislaine Maxwell smiling at the camera in the background. Prince Andrew and Guptill settled out of court in 2022 after she sued Andrew the year prior. Prince Andrew has denied sleeping with Guptill. In fact, he denied ever meeting her.
In a now-infamous 2019 interview with the BBC, he said this about Virginia when she accused him of having sex with her in 2001 in London. "I have no recollection of ever meeting this lady. None whatsoever." "You don't remember meeting her?" "No."
Guptill had claimed the prince bought her drinks and they dined together and danced together at a posh members-only nightclub in London. Prince Andrew said he never spent time with Guptill and he claimed the date she claimed that they were together, he was actually with his kids. He went on to say that he didn't know where the bar was in the nightclub because he says he doesn't drink. And in what was an infamous moment in that interview, Andrew disputed Guptill's description of him profusely sweating. He said this to the BBC in that 2019 interview. "There's a slight problem with with with with with the sweating um because uh I I I have a peculiar medical condition which is that I don't sweat um or I didn't sweat at the time."
Guptill claimed that she met the prince through Ghislaine Maxwell. The former socialite is now a convicted sex offender. Here's her mug shot from 2022 at the Metropolitan Detention Center in New York. She is currently serving 20 years in prison on five sex trafficking charges related to the now-dead Jeffrey Epstein. He, of course, died in his jail cell in 2019 after he was arrested on federal sex trafficking charges. The medical examiner said he hung himself.
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Guptill told CBS News this in 2020 about Maxwell. "She is a monster. She she's worse than Epstein. She she did things even worse than Epstein did."
In the wake of Guptill's allegations and the out-of-court settlement, Prince Andrew resigned from public roles with the royal family in 2020. His mom, Queen Elizabeth, stripped Andrew of his royal and military titles in 2022 before she died later that year.
It's important to note that now that Virginia Guptill has died, there could be a court battle brewing over who gets the rest of the money from that out-of-court settlement involving Prince Andrew. The UK media outlet, The Sun, reports that Guptill's now-estranged husband, who she was reportedly divorcing at the time, could be at odds with members of her family over who could get that money.
Now, we started to get more of a glimpse into the challenges Virginia Guptill was having living in Australia on March 30th of this year when she posted this image with a caption saying she had just 4 days to live. And we had to blur some of her injuries due to YouTube policies, but in this picture, you can see the bruising all over her face and her chest, and she's sitting in what appears to be a hospital bed. The caption is 174 words that has brought her story back to the headlines. That caption read, quote, "This year has been the worst start to a new year. But I won't bore anyone with the details, but I think it is important to note that when a school bus driver comes at you driving 110 km, as we were slowing for a turn, no matter what your car is made of, it might as well be a tin can. I've gone into kidney renal failure. They've given me 4 days to live, transferring me to a specialist hospital in urology. I'm ready to go. Just not until I see my babies one last time. But you know what they say about wishes. Bleep in one hand and wish in the other. I guarantee it's still going to be bleep at the end of the day. Thank you all for being wonderful people of the world and for being a great part of my life. God bless you all. XX Virginia."
Now, after her Instagram post went viral, a family spokesperson issued a statement offering some clarification from Virginia's end. That statement said, quote, "Virginia thanks everyone for the outpouring of love and support. She is overwhelmed with gratitude. Today, she remains in serious condition while receiving medical care. On March 24th, in rural Western Australia, a school bus hit the car in which she was riding. The police were called but said that there was no one available to come to the scene. They asked if anyone was injured and suggested if they were they should make their way to the hospital."
Guptill's statement then goes on to say that she actually didn't mean to post this caption saying that she had 4 days to live publicly. Instead, she meant for it to be on a private Facebook page. Australian police told media outlets that no one was reported injured in the crash and the car involved sustained roughly two grand in damage and the bus driver had reported the incident the next day.
The aftermath of that story brought to light a court battle that she was having with her estranged husband, Robert Guptill. According to People, Robert hit Virginia with a restraining order in February that prevented her from seeing their three teenage children. Robert also accused Virginia of violating that order. Virginia accused her estranged husband of physical abuse. Sky News in the UK says the couple separated in 2023. Robert's attorney had no comment for People who exclusively spoke with members of Guptill's family.
Prince Andrew has yet to make a comment about the death of Virginia Guptill, but he has had someone in his corner who has repeatedly attacked Virginia on social media. Her name is Victoria Hervey. She's a model, a socialite, and a former girlfriend of Prince Andrew. Now, when you look at her Instagram, you can see she has a playlist of story posts that attacked Guptill since that bus crash in March. One of the posts read, quote, "The pain caused by her lies, destroying lives and tearing families apart all for money is no small thing. She has a lot to answer for. I call this divine judgment by God. People often say karma has a way of catching up." And quote, as Ghislaine Maxwell put it, Virginia is a fantasist. Remember Maxwell serving 20 years in prison. She is now a convicted sex offender. But even in death, Hervey continues to post about Virginia Guptill. She posted this with a headline from an Australian media outlet and she just writes, "Karma."
Guptill's family did release an official statement after her death saying that Virginia took her own life. As far as what is believed to be a large amount of money that Prince Andrew paid Guptill after she sued him in 2021 to settle the case, the British media outlet, The Sun, writes that Guptill's family and her estranged husband could square off in court in a fight over that money.
Joining us now to talk more about this case is civil trial attorney David Ring. Thank you for taking the time to be with us. I know we spoke when Virginia was back in the headlines after the Instagram post where she said around March 30th that she had four days to live and um this story took a really sad turn since then. Uh what was your initial reaction when you saw the headline that she she had passed away?
Oh, just like everybody else, I I was very very surprised and and shocked. I mean, what a what a tragedy. It's just terrible that this happened. Uh, you know, a month ago, we were talking about her in this mysterious Instagram post about her being involved in a in a apparently a serious car accident involving her being hit by a bus. And it turned out, you know, she said she was having renal failure and turns out the bus accident maybe wasn't as serious as it was portrayed. So, there was a lot of unanswered questions a month or so ago. And we were all concerned about her. We I remember talking about she's having some mental health struggles and we all hope she gets the help she needs and to see this happening, you know, a month or so later, it's it's just very sad.
What do you make of her attorney and her dad who spoke to TMZ both seem to be raising questions about how she died and the attorney saying that she showed no signs of of having uh issues where she would take her own life. It seemed. And then her dad had pointed to in 2019 she put a post out on then Twitter saying that, you know, if I if I die, it wasn't suicide. What do you make of of some questions being raised about how Virginia died?
Well, look, there are so many unanswered questions at this point, but but um I think what her attorney and the attorney is someone who apparently has only represented her for a few months. This isn't someone who who was her attorney in the Epstein case. It's someone in Australia who who'd been representing her since maybe January. I I think it's it's what we know is is apparently there was some pills involved and that she may have overdosed on pills. Was that intentional? Was that an accident? I mean, we know a lot of people, you know, accidentally can can overdose on on pills or or did she do it with the intention to kill herself? We don't know. And I think the lawyer was expressing shock that it happened and that it's being characterized as a suicide because, you know, according to the lawyer who who apparently had talked to her a lot, she seemed to be in good spirits. Um was looking forward to to things on the horizon in her life and and it it this just came out of nowhere. So, I understand the the shock she feels.
Yeah. And we understood since that post on on this bus crash where there were questions about how serious that crash was and then you know why that post was put out on social media but then all the details come to light of what had been going on in her life in Australia with her husband. They separated in 2023. What stood out to you in the back and forth she was having with her now then estranged husband and and how that potentially led to some of the challenges she was having?
Well, again, a lot of unanswered questions here, but what we seem to know is there was a lot of marital strife that was taking place in the last months or or even last year or so. And and according to reports, there was um the the husband who who they're still married. They are separated but but still legally married uh and estranged. Uh but the husband had apparently obtained a restraining order against Virginia. And the restraining order also prevented her from from seeing her her three kids. And the kids are I think 19 and and 15 and 14 something like that. They're all teenagers. And and so that was going on and and you know again reports were that that obviously that was a huge huge hardship on her to to have a court order saying you're not allowed to to see your children. Um and and then there was another report that she had allegedly violated this court restraining order by somehow contacting her estranged husband whether it's by a phone call or text or something like that. So, there was a lot of turmoil going on in in Virginia's life in the last few weeks and months, including this this mysterious uh accident with the bus and and her health and the in the photo she posted that that she had these serious bruises on her face. She was in the hospital. So, clearly she was under a lot of duress, a lot of stress. There was a lot of of negative things taking place in her life.
And and Virginia first came forward around 2010 accusing Jeffrey Epstein of in and Ghislaine Maxwell of of sex trafficking and that she was the victim of it. She was really one of the faces of the victims who was not afraid to go in front of a camera. How do you remember how will you remember Virginia Guptill?
Uh she's a hero to to you know I'm a I'm a lawyer who has represented victims of sexual abuse for for over 30 years and anytime a victim comes forward and takes on their perpetrator especially in in a in a public manner in a public lawsuit that is a courageous thing to do. That is a very very difficult thing to do. And with Virginia, you can up those stakes by a thousand because hers was incredibly incredibly high profile. I mean, Jeffrey Epstein and and Prince Andrew, I mean, those were worldwide headlines and and she took them on and and and she was victorious in in the cases. Um, and she made her name public. She didn't she didn't, you know, use a Jane Doe or an alias. And so, everyone knew her identity. So, and and so, you know, we've all seen the infamous photo of of Prince Andrew and with his arm around her when she was 17 years old and and with Ghislaine Maxwell in the background. And so, what Virginia accomplished in those cases is incredible. And and it clearly took a toll on her. Clearly. I mean, so so look, she is a she's a a hero to to all victims because she came forward and she she persevered and and you know, she she she obtained justice in in the cases that she brought against these incredibly high-profile figures. And she wasn't just a voice. I mean, she was a key piece of evidence um in in some of the cases that that were brought forward.
For people who may not, you obviously remember the Jeffrey Epstein case, how he died. Ghislaine Maxwell is now in prison. From an evidence standpoint in in the cases against them and in the case that was pending against Jeffrey Epstein, how important was her testimony beyond just being that public face that people saw, but within the courtroom?
She her testimony was monumental. It was it was critical to the case. I mean, there was only a few victims that were able to testify and come forward and and tell their stories about being uh sex trafficked by Jeffrey Epstein and and in the second case by Ghislaine Maxwell. So, Virginia's testimony was was crucial to to both of those those uh investigations and cases and and obviously was the centerpiece of the the allegations made against Prince Andrew. And so she was she was incredibly important from an evidentiary standpoint to those investigations and those cases.
We were looking at some of the posts today from from someone who is Prince Andrew's ex-girlfriend, Victoria Hervey. She's a British socialite. Um, I know we talked about some of the posts that she had last time that we spoke about this uh that just attacking Virginia Guptill's story seemed to point and and speak glowingly of Ghislaine Maxwell who's in prison on on sex trafficking charges um a conviction of that. What does how does that public attack from someone who is a socialite, how does that impact a victim? And and it's a unique case for Virginia Guptill. But I'm sure in your line of work, you've seen cases where you do have these people who accuse someone's story in saying that it didn't happen or that they're lying uh against someone who's more powerful.
Absolutely. I mean, it happens every case because you're going to have have everyone who supports the perpetrator calling the victim a liar and a fraud. And so when when Virginia came forward and and brought her accusations against Prince Andrew and everyone knew Virginia's identity, you can imagine what she must have seen on on social media and on the internet uh from from his supporters that really, you know, went after her and accused her of all sorts of nasty things of being a liar and making things up and all of that. And you can imagine the toll that that would take on a person to see that kind of of of of just just nasty verbal abuse day in and day out. And and and as you brought up, Chris, it hasn't ended. You know, even now, uh, some some ex-girlfriend of Prince Andrew has has for some bizarre reason made it, uh, important to completely, uh, still talk trash about Virginia and saying these incredibly nasty, outrageous things about her even after her her death, saying, you know, things like, you know, karma and things like that on her on her social media post. Absolutely bizarre. but but very very sad and you can see the toll that takes on a victim. It's it's it's it's it's unfair and and that makes them all the more courageous for coming forward and and persevering through through things like that.
I know that Virginia had a somewhat complicated family dynamic. Her family released a statement initially saying that she had taken her own life. Then her father speaks to TMZ and says, "What? Wait a second. There could be some questions." We talked about the lawyer there. Uh she was reportedly in the middle of a divorce. She had been separated from her her husband in Australia, but there was a um she was in the process of of officially being divorced. You have this undisclosed amount of money that Prince Andrew paid Virginia Guptill when they settled out of court in 2022. Uh it seems complicated with the parties that could make a claim for that. What could happen to that money if if there was some sort of court dispute that took place?
Well, well, so here's the thing. Again, a lot of unanswered questions, but uh did did Virginia have a will? You know, we don't know that yet. Um but if she if she did and it was a valid, legitimate will, okay, that's that's going to control um her her assets and and where her where the inheritance goes to. Although even that could be challenged by by other people who you know family members who maybe weren't part of the will or given any anything in the will and they could come forward and say oh the will's fraudulent or it was you know it's not a legitimate will things like that. Um if there's no will, then you know, my understanding of of Australian law, similar to a lot of states here, uh, in America, is that because she wasn't formally divorced yet, uh, even though she is separated from her husband, they were not divorced, he he's first in line to receive her assets. And so again, that could be something that um because that probably has to wind through the courts. Uh that's something that we could find out a whole lot more about this settlement um from Prince Andrew because we don't the public does not yet know the exact sum that Prince Andrew paid. And so, you know, there's a lot of speculation out there that it was in the eight figures and things like that, but no one has ever actually announced it and known for sure. And so, if if these if if this dispute with Virginia's um inheritance goes into the courts, we may very well find out what amount Prince Andrew paid to her in a settlement.
Yeah. No, that's a that's a really interesting point. and and we'll see how that how that plays out and then how that of course Prince Andrew um no longer officially doing uh royal duties but you know what would that amount you know add to his legacy um that's already tarnished in the United Kingdom.
Lastly, David, whenever we talk about Jeffrey Epstein, there's an incredible interest that people have even years later in this case, questions about how he died. Um, and now, you know, even through statements from from a lawyer, it kind of adds to that fire of of speculation, of conspiracy that people seem to have in this case. You followed this case for a long time. What is it about Jeffrey Epstein and everyone who is associated with him that creates that interest and almost the level of distrust people have with whatever officially is said by law enforcement about how he died perhaps how Virginia died if there's no longer no more of an investigation into it. What is it about this story that just seems to just churn conspiracy theories?
Yeah. Well, look, he Epstein was obviously an incredibly powerful uh person who who had access to the the most powerful people in this country in including presidents and so um you know all the financial wealthy people that he knew and hung around with and and was associated with and and his own wealth and so you know the controversy around Epstein Epstein suicide will will go on for a long time because there's a lot of questions about you know whether whether he killed himself in in jail or or whether he was killed by someone else to silence him. That's that's going to be going on for a long time. We'll probably never have an answer to that. And and and it's sad. You can see the trail that of of tragedy that that that he's left behind. Uh and and this is another example of it with with Virginia Guptill and all the turmoil in her life. And uh you know, I think by all accounts, it seems as if she's either accidentally or or maybe intentionally took her life. I don't think anyone's saying there's other people involved, but but it's still a tragedy and and it shows you that um you know, these victims of of abuse, uh even as they get older in life, they still experience the trauma. Uh they still have a lot of issues that flow from it. And and just because they receive some settlement, some some monetary settlement, that does not cure all of their issues that they have in life by any means.
No. Incredibly well put uh incredibly sad development in the story uh involving Virginia Guptill, civil trial attorney David Ring. It's always great to have you on Law and Crime. Thanks for joining us.
Thank you.
On the Case presented by Law and Crime. I'm Chris Stewart. We'll see you next time. [Music]