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Economic boats will have many more camps. Political boats, instability, don't even mention it. This leads to more multi-polar alliances forming because Indonesia has over 105,000 [islands/regions]. Nationalist policies regarding natural resources, processing various natural resources, especially nickel, coal, or anything else, should be maximized within Indonesia first, and then exported. Capital in Indonesia alone is not enough. Therefore, it's not surprising why the Chinese capital army has heavily invaded Indonesia, because China needs natural resources. The trend of global security management will definitely change. And of course, the relationship between major powers will also change. Smaller nations will have more opportunities to open their eyes and emerge. America's international prestige, I think, has been greatly damaged by this war in Iraq. [Music] >> A wide variety of products. [Singing] My, with Suphap Oshot for over 70 years. [Music] And Jertdoo. [Singing] Forever, Suphap Oshot. >> Now, the issue is the G7. I'm still wondering, are the G7 still united? Professor Tham, you're showing a bad attitude. I feel like you're deliberately arriving a bit late to the meeting, deliberately arriving a bit late, and then >> saying, "Oh, I am the Big Boss." Doesn't that sound annoying, Professor? >> Why, Professor? Why do they still have to show that attitude? It's not that they overslept; I think they did it deliberately. [Laughter] It's like, "I'm going to be late, and what are you going to do about it?" >> Uh-huh. >> Right? Because if you're still humble, it means you're still the leader of the G7, still the leader of NATO. Because the majority of G7 members are part of NATO, right? >> Mostly, right? There are only a few countries, like Japan, that are not NATO members, right? The rest are almost all NATO members, right? >> Right. So >> G7 is still good, Professor? >> I think it's a very loose alliance. Look at the relationship between Canada and America right now. >> Well, they talk sometimes, they argue sometimes. >> Oh, well, that's natural, but Canada is now thinking hard. If you have to rely on international trade, exporting worldwide, to America alone for 80-90%, you won't survive. >> So now they have to diversify international trade opportunities more. And even Britain itself, Keir Starmer, who has always been very close to Trump or America, between Britain and America, will they have to think more from now on? >> Uh, their attitude seems to have changed, not accepting it as much. >> Yes. And therefore, I can say for sure that NATO will become looser, and the G7, don't even mention it. >> Right. >> Because they have to operate >> with more multi-polar camps. >> Oh. >> Right. Whether it's economic camps, this is very important. >> Yes. >> Right. Because why? Because suddenly you impose a 15%, 20% tariff on me. Did the G7 get hit by this? They were all hit, weren't they? >> Yes. >> Right? What language is that? Right. So, what happens now? It's uncertain. I think there will be more economic camps, at least 2-3 camps. And what about political boats? Instability, don't even mention it. There will be more multi-polar alliances forming. >> Not just two poles. One pole led by America, another pole led by China and Russia. >> I think even the middle powers will start looking for ways to form networks and alliances. >> Right. And it doesn't have to be a very tight, unshakeable alliance. It's a flexible alliance, right? So, from now on, one word I want to leave you with, maybe an English word. >> Uh-huh. >> Is "Flexibility Management." Economic Flexibility Management or Security Flexibility Management. These two things, you have to do them well. How will you be flexible? How will you be flexible to align with the dynamic world, which is full of unknowns, full of unpredictability, as we know? >> Professor, you mentioned flexible management. There's a country that faced a crisis, perhaps because they lacked this subject of yours. They grew very well in the past, at 5% consistently, and aimed for 8% growth in this period, but it turned around drastically. Professor, I listened and still don't understand. Indonesia is a country with great progress and growth rate, but it faced a currency crisis and many economic crises. I think where are its flaws, Professor? Suddenly it dropped from 6 [percent] to a somersault. Do you know the cause, Professor? >> Suddenly shooting yourself in the foot. >> That bad? >> It's not you shooting yourself. I have to compare it simply. During Jokowi's time. >> Before the current president took office. He was the 7th president. Jokowi was the 7th. >> After independence. >> What did he do? He invested heavily in infrastructure. >> Uh-huh. >> The money Jokowi used to invest in infrastructure is like what. >> He used it for populist measures, like free lunches, free meals for 80-90 million children across Indonesia, or setting up "White Red Village" cooperatives, 83,000 of them across Indonesia. And he also built houses and provided welfare for many people, doing many things that were all populist policies. >> Uh-huh. >> What Jokowi did, in contrast to the current government, is invest in infrastructure. >> 265 infrastructure projects that Jokowi invested in. >> Uh-huh. >> Some years, like 2016, when Jokowi had just taken office. >> Uh-huh. >> He invested in infrastructure, $22 billion in one year. >> And then established another fund of $50 billion, US dollars, to invest in all 265 infrastructure projects. Just for ports alone, how many ports do you think he developed? International ports. >> Uh-huh, uh-huh. >> 24. >> 24. So, that's too many. >> And even the concession for building the high-speed railway from Jakarta to Bandung, he gave it to China, right? $5.5 billion, it's completed and running, Professor. >> So, you can see that what Jokowi did, first, he was a boxer in terms of economic management. >> He knew that Indonesia is a vast country, 1.9 million square kilometers, and it lacks infrastructure. So, if you don't have infrastructure, don't expect to develop. >> It's a prerequisite for creating development opportunities. Roads, railways, ports, airports, water systems, electricity systems, and so on. >> Right. So, that's what Jokowi did a lot of, which is different from the current government. And second, what did Jokowi do? He revamped human resource development, meaning developing education, both formal and informal. He had at least 150 educational institutions offer online courses for workers and personnel throughout Indonesia to learn. Because Indonesia has over 15,000 islands. It's not easy to travel to universities, except on Java, which is the largest and most populous island, right? So, with online learning and vocational training, these are things Jokowi prioritized. And what's next, which is the opposite of the current government? It's what? Jokowi had a policy: nationalism. >> What does that mean? Nationalist policy regarding natural resources, meaning wanting to process various natural resources, especially nickel, coal, or anything else, to the fullest in Indonesia first, and then export. And to achieve this, capital in Indonesia alone is not enough. So, he promoted foreign investment. For example, what? He gave incentives like tax reductions for 10-15 years, just like what we did when we first established the Board of Investment. And why? You can import raw materials, import machinery, and not pay taxes. And there are many other deductions to create incentives. Therefore, it's not surprising why the Chinese capital army has heavily invaded Indonesia, because China needs natural resources, right? Simply put, when Jokowi first became president, Indonesia could export nickel. Nickel is one of the top three highest-value exports of Indonesia. The top three are palm oil, second is coal, third is nickel. But when Jokowi first became president, the nickel exports were $3 billion per year. >> Uh-huh. >> But, Mr. Thani, can you imagine how much nickel exports were when he stepped down? >> I don't know. >> $30 billion per year. >> $30 billion. $30 million per year, increased to $30 billion per year. >> Wow. >> Ten times. This means what? It means he was able to increase added value for the country significantly by promoting foreign investment. But what the current government is doing is what? It's centralizing everything into a large holding company called National Holding Company, named Anantara. This fund includes what? It includes what they call a joint venture company, which comes from the word "holding company." It consists of what? First, it consists of a trading company. What is that? A trading company established to bring in the trade of natural resources, coal, nickel, palm oil, and so on, into this company. Instead of allowing private companies to export freely. This company is called Nusantara Indonesia or DSI, which is a trading company. So, from now on, when a certain time comes, what happens? Private companies that were encouraged to invest during Jokowi's era and could operate freely will no longer be able to. You will have to sell your products to this newly established company, which is a trading firm. >> Right. >> And what happens then? Can the economy move forward? And the next point is what? They established a fund called Nusantara Fund. This is a sovereign wealth fund. For what? To manage state-owned assets. For example, Indonesia has about 1,000 state-owned enterprises, large and small, parent and subsidiary companies, totaling over $900 billion in assets. So, instead of letting them manage their own assets and operations, because it's all centralized in this fund, the Nusantara Fund, and letting the Nusantara Fund manage those assets. Whether it's investing in various businesses, including investing in the stock market and so on. And what's important is what? Nusantara also has the responsibility to do what? To undertake populist initiatives. For example, what? Establish a fund to provide free food for 80-85 million children. It doesn't cost a little or a lot. Initially, it costs $14 billion US dollars per year. And if done fully, it will increase to $20 billion US dollars per year. This is the money Jokowi used for infrastructure, right? >> Yes. >> And that's not all. They are building "White Red Village" cooperatives, using the national colors of Indonesia as a theme. How many? How many, Mr. Thani? >> I don't know. >> 83,000. >> Wow, that's a lot. And they are reducing the role of convenience stores like Alfamart and Indomaret. Normally, Indonesia has many community stores, and they are locally owned. >> Right. Not foreign brands with foreign licenses opening up like in our country. Theirs are their own. >> And they are doing well. What's happening now? They are trying to control the licensing for existing convenience stores, not to be renewed as before, and to bring these activities into the "White Red Village" cooperatives. >> Right. And they are using money comparable to the village fund, comparable to the student food fund. >> About 14,000-15,000 million dollars per year. And that's not all. They say that these village cooperatives, 83,000 of them, will hire 30,000 new university graduates as managers, distributed throughout the country. This is a project that the former father-in-law of Prabowo Subianto, Pazuto, did. >> Oh, Zuto. >> Zuto was the father-in-law, right? Because his daughter married him. Because Prabowo Subianto was a general before. >> Uh-huh. He was the commander of the Special Warfare Center. >> They call it Kopassus, which has vast and immense power. >> Right. So, Zuto had established cooperatives like this before. >> Yes. >> And even enacted a cooperative law in 1926, before Zuto was overthrown by students and had to step down. He was overthrown because of the financial crisis that followed our Tom Yum Kung crisis, as we know. >> Right. So, what happened? They went back to it, and it turns out that during his father-in-law's management, everything failed. Huge losses, corruption, and so on. And now they are reviving all of these. Just the examples I've given. What do you think, Mr. Thani? Will this enhance Indonesia's potential, which has great opportunities? Because Jokowi invested in infrastructure, it will create opportunities for Indonesia to transform from an economy dependent on selling natural resources, which we call a National Resource-Based Economy, to a Production-Based Economy, which is industrial development. This will be very easy because the country has nearly 300 million people, right? And there are still many opportunities for industrial development. But when the government takes over everything, as I mentioned, and emphasizes populist policies so much, this is the reason why Indonesia's economy, which has very good fundamental potential, because its public debt is not high, household debt is only 30% of GDP, Indonesia, right? It's a great shame. This is an example. There are many more details. Why Indonesia's economy has taken such a sharp turn as it is now. >> Listening to the professor, it sounds like the government is failing. It's not that the economy is bad. >> So, looking at it, we have a leader without enough vision to lead the country, unlike Jokowi, who planned well. And it's a fate we can't predict. But I hope Thai people will learn a lesson from Indonesia and not follow suit. Because I feel that Thailand is also similar. We have populist projects. Recently, there's the AI passport to be given away for free, and other things to be given away for free. I don't understand why the vision of governments worldwide doesn't think that people should work hard to earn their own income, but instead tries to give things away to get votes. This might be a weakness of Asians, perhaps. We need to find a solution. Professor, today I have gained a lot of knowledge and understanding from you. And I would like you to summarize for me at the end. Professor, in your opinion, this Iran war, what are the points, Professor, that you would like to summarize, how will it change the world? The Iran war. >> Ah, yes. In a broad sense, the trend of global security management will definitely change. I see that. >> And of course, the relationship between major powers will also change. >> Uh-huh. >> There will be more flexibility. >> And because this lesson has been learned by everyone. >> This makes it easier for secondary major powers to emerge. Because why? Because America's international prestige, I think, has been greatly damaged by this war in Iran. >> Right. >> Because the country that was once a superpower, respected by everyone, is now as we see it. >> Right. So, the world will have new dynamics. And in the long run, I think it will be a good thing. Because the world should be about cooperation, not about unilateralism, meaning the use of authoritarian power by one nation, right? It will create more balance. Smaller nations will have more opportunities to open their eyes and emerge. >> Yes. Thank you very much, Professor. Today, thank you. >> Yes, goodbye. 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