Transcription
[Music] All right, let's go out to Eight Mile at Detroit Rock City and talk to Ann. What's up, Ann?
Oh, not much. Thanks for taking my call.
Dr. Jen, of course. What's up?
Um, well, I have some dilemmas or problems. Um, I've been married for 25 years, and, um, my husband works on the road, so he is out of the home Monday through, um, Friday, returning Friday evening.
Oh, dang. So how long have you been doing that?
Um, since, let's see, it's about 15 years now he's been doing that.
Wow. Yes. Do you have kids?
So, uh, we do, but they are growing. So this is where the problem really lies. Now they're growing or they're grown?
They're growing. So 25 and 22, so they're out of the home now.
Okay, okay. Oh, so you've been a single parent for 15 years?
I have, yeah. What is your husb- Very active one at that. So they kept me very busy and, um, so it wasn't as difficult as it is now for me, um, with him on the road all the time.
What's he do? He is he a driver?
No, he works on the high electrical line, power lines. So he's like an actual, actual stud.
Yeah, yeah. Gosh, dude. Okay. So he's gone and so now that the kids are gone, I'm spending a lot, obviously, time at home by myself and, and feeling very lonely. And, um, it's, it's very difficult. Um, to throw a little notch into everything, um, he, uh, we live on the family farm. And so he has this desire to continue this tradition of farming with his, you know, that's been in the farm for generations and generations. And so his weekends are pretty much occupied with farming also.
Yeah, so here's what I would recommend you all do if you haven't already. I would recommend that you call some sort of romantic getaway weekend. Would he do that? At certain times of the year? You know, obviously right now it's hard because it's harvest time, so it's even more amped up than normal.
When does harvest time roll out?
Um, it usually starts anywhere from September and goes through, depending on the weather, um, through November.
Okay. I want you to put November 15th on the calendar. November 21st on the calendar. And that's going to go right into deer hunting season. I get it. But here's what has to happen. You all have to get together and say, we've been married for a quarter century. 15 years ago, you went to do this work, and I raised these kids essentially on my own. I want us to make a plan for the back half of our lives. How old are you right now?
I'm 44.
Okay. You get about halfway done. At some point, you have to have the courage to say, I don't want to continue doing this in two more years or five more years. I want to paint a new picture of what the back half of our life is going to look like.
And I have expressed that a little bit, um, and, and even come up with some ideas of strategies of things that we could possibly do, um, to help some of this situation. One, you know, obviously he can't walk away from all these years that he's put into this company either. He absolutely 100% could a retirement could care less. He's not going to lose all the retirement, is he? Part of it? He would, yes.
Okay. What's, what's the number? What's the number for his wife?
Well, I'm willing up to give up my job and relocate where he does most of the work to make this work. Okay. So to me, that's a lot because I also have established, you know, relationships and things at my work, but I can do my work other places. The need, the line of work I'm in, there's a need everywhere. So I can find a job easily. I don't know what the, when that was brought up, it was like, well, then we have to purchase another house and are we going to be able to afford it? And I do all the finances.
Y'all are going about this all backwards. Y'all are going through, you are saying, you know, I'm kind of, what, what if we thought about? And like this is, and immediately he'll kick into problem-solving mode, as most men do. And he'll come up with a reason or two or three why this won't work. And then you cash out. So my question to you is, how much longer under the current arrangement are you in for?
Not much.
That's right. My guess is you are way closer to the end than you are letting on, or that your friends probably even know.
Absolutely. And my gut tells me he has a second life somewhere. Not with a family or anything like I'm saying, he's running around, has seven kids somewhere else, but he has a whole other life that you're not a part of. Is that fair?
Mmm-hmm.
And part of you is really pissed off that he missed your kids's life.
Resentment.
Yep. Yep. At the same time, you're really grateful that he's provided a good living for everybody.
Fair.
Correct?
Both.
And, and I believe with all my guts that there is a season when a, and I'm going to over-genderize this, so everybody hold your breath, when men go to work and do things they hate away from people they love because they have to get something done. I believe that. I can imagine in 2008 in Detroit saying, I'm going to go find something to do because the world was imploding around everybody. I get that. 2009 is about right. Yeah, I get that. And I think you can cheat on your wife with your job. I think you can cheat on your wife with a golf course. I think you can cheat on your wife with with any number of things. The challenge here is you can't control any of that. What you can control is how clear you're being. And I don't want you for the sake of not rocking the boat or the sake of not causing, you know, this or that. I think it's time to be very, very clear. And it will probably be like a ton of bricks out of left field for him.
You think? Or no?
Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.
Okay. I think you have to own that because you probably should have had this conversation seven years ago.
Fair.
Yeah. Yeah. Why didn't you?
You're not supposed to ask why questions, but I'm just curious. Just because I was so active with my own career at the time and very busy. And then, like, like I said, the kids were in and out for a while. And then they're finally, like, established their own lives. And then I just felt like I was left in the dust.
Did you also leave him in the dust?
Um, no, but I don't schedule my life around him anymore because he doesn't do the same for me.
So let me ask you a hard question. Are you done?
No.
Convince me or not. When we're together, I love the time that we have.
Well, of course. I mean, it has no strings to it. You can have a weekend rendezvous and fall under whatever religious dominion that you've ascribed to, and then you can go about having whatever job and day and life and friends you want. Just because you have fun on the weekend with somebody doesn't mean your marriage is solid.
I definitely know it lacks some communication. Otherwise, I would have.
That was awesome. I mean, it's kind of lacking a little, you know?
Yeah. Yes. You've been keeping this secret for 10 years now. What, what keeps you from quitting your job and showing up on the doorstep of the apartment he lives in or the hotel he lives been living out of for 15 years and say, I miss you so much, I can't breathe?
Probably, to be honest, what I've created for myself.
Mmm-hmm. Just the stability of being able to, you know, I'm independent. Like, I can support myself.
I know, but to what end? You're flexing for yourself, right? Into the end of your marriage. Yep. Like your words are saying, no, I want to fix this. I want to solve this. But every action I see from both of you is like, no, no, this thing is just like a cool weekend arrangement. I think in the back of our heads, both of us are just like, when we can retire, which is in still seven years, this will be different.
What's gonna be different?
Just that we'll be together, I guess. I don't know.
Because the communication isn't going to get better on its own. No. And you're going to wake up and realize you waited your whole life to live, and you'll be 53 years old. Yeah. And then what? Suddenly he's going to be like, all right, let's play checkers every evening together, right? And vice versa. You're just going to want, like, all right, now we can have sex all the time. Really? Like, that's just not just gonna happen, right?
I, I, I, I mean, yeah. How can I help? I, I, I. Is it too late for counseling? Should we do counseling?
Like, you haven't even had the conversation yet. That's, that's what I'm just kind of stuck.
I don't know. What's so hard about the conversation that you sit down and you tell them, hey, for 15 years, you've done what you want to do. I've built an amazing career and amazing life here. I want you home. You got six months to wrap it up. I don't care how much money we lose. I want you. Or honey, you've worked your butt off 15 years hanging from high-rise, doing whatever it is you do. I'm quitting all this stuff. I'm out. Yeah. Or the third option is, hey, I've been a single mom for 15 years. You've been a roughneck for 15 years, all by yourself. And we get together for, we hook up a couple of times a month, and we sit by each other at graduation. I love you, always will. But this marriage is over. Let's just be grown-ups about it. Because I love my career too much. You love your career too much. And this farm. And I've got half of my life left to live. And I don't want to be third place behind this fantasy you have about being a farmer and your out-of-town job. And you don't want to be second place to or third place to my role as mom and dad that I created and my job as a whatever. Right? That's the third option. But I don't think it's time for counseling yet because y'all haven't even told each other the truth. And again, the conversation needs to be had for sure.
Are you gonna do it? Because I'm sure he's got his stuff to say too, doesn't he?
Oh, I'm sure.
Yeah. It needs to happen. It definitely needs to happen. I don't, it's either that or walk away. I mean, those are really, in my eyes, the only two options.
I know. But I don't think he realizes how close you are to option B. Do you already have somebody?
Nope. Not even a little bit.
Nope. What about over 15 years? Never?
What about him?
Same.
Are you positive?
I'm positive.
What are you scared of then? This usually happens. Somebody's this scared to have this conversation for this long. Is they're scared of an abusive response, or they're scared of something they're going to find. And they'd rather.
No, I'm, I'm scared of probably a failing. My marriage. I have come from a background of a very strong marriage. Parents have been married over, you know, well over 50 years.
I know, but you're not living their life. And this is like a conversation with my son when I'm looking at, like, a worksheet with a zero on it, and I'm looking at two missing assignments and another worksheet with a 50 on it. And he says, I'm so scared of failing. And I look at him and say, you are. Because the marriage isn't this thing that's way over there. The marriage is the telling the truth. The marriage is the phone calls. The marriage is sacrifice. The marriage is, I don't care what job I have, nothing's worth you. And that's both of you. So like, marriage isn't this thing over here. It's a thousand different decisions y'all make along the way. And it's a choice to always be in service to. And him always be in service to. And somewhere along the way, y'all started being service to yourselves. And here we are. I would be less worried about you failing and being scared of failing a marriage and more scared of you waking up being 45 years old on an island, which is what I think you've done. Right? And your kids acted as a Xanax for 15 years of loneliness and isolation and being by yourself.
Fair.
Yes. I think it's time to set up the conversation. And I would recommend it. I mean, after this long, I'd recommend writing it down. You might take two or three drafts of this, but I would write it down. And I would give him a heads up and say, hey, we need to have a conversation about the state of our marriage and the state of us staying together.
What, what, what?
Yeah, we need to have a conversation about the state of our marriage. I haven't told you everything over the last 15 years. And I got to put everything out on the table. And I hope you'll honor me and do the same thing. But something's got to give because the whole thing's about to fall over. And I don't know another way to do that. I don't. But a fear of failure, every day, every week, every month, is actually creating the future you're terrified of having. Have the hard conversation. And if it reveals a marriage that's an ash, y'all can decide to build something new. And it's going to be real hard, but it can absolutely be done. Or if you reveal a marriage hanging on by a thread, and both of you are all in, and he's like, oh my gosh, I'll quit today. Cool. Or you say, I'm out. Cool. Or both of you say, I love my job, I love my job, I love our, we love our jobs more than we love this thing that we've created. Y'all need to be honest and have that conversation too. I think the time for avoidance is over. We have to head directly into this hard conflict and come up with some solutions. And by the way, and you're not the only one, most people on the planet need to do that right now. Head towards the storm. Thanks for the call.