Norm Macdonald: The Interview Collection Part 1 (10 Hours of Norm's Stream of Consciousness)

There's something about Norm Macdonald that every time he opens his mouth, I laugh. I don't know. It's just the style. It's a type of thing you can ask him anything. I mean, you did you remember from Saturday Night Live and he anchored Weekend Update and then did some O.J. thing and got taken off by what's the guy's name took you off? I don't you don't remember either. Yeah.

Anyway, um aside from having the same birthday as me, you you got problems. You're wearing you're wearing eyeglasses and the reason wearing eyeglasses cuz Yeah, cuz I swam for two days and got chlorine in my eye and then I don't know, man. I thought I was I had allergies at first, but now I go, "No, no, this feels like chlorine." Like it burned my eye or something. I don't know if that's can actually happened. Yeah, I'll have to check uh the computer. I Google um you know, computer M.D. and then he tells me. Is that the way it works? That's what I do now because I'm a bit of a hypochondriac. So, so it makes life easy. I'll go um and I'm reaching the age where, you know, when you're young, you go, "Hey, man, my left arm hurts." Well, well, I'll let's go I'll have some soup. But then when you're older, you go, "Oh, my left heart, so I'm I It's probably nothing, but I could be having a massive heart attack."

Well, if you did, that'd be great publicity for the show. Oh, I don't have one now. Oh, you know, I mean, if you're going to do it, do it here. Well, look, everybody be talking about you. I'd get the Felicity. It would work. Yeah. Yeah, it would. In a in a cynical world, it would work.

If you had to if you had to do a show right this minute. Yeah. Can you just turn on a dime and do it? A comedy show on what? Well, you're Yeah. No, no, no. Forget me. You're at Cobb's right now. I can do it. Yeah. Can do it. You just turn yourself on and off. Yes, sir. Can we turn up the volume a little? Am I not talking like There you go. No, there you go.

What happened to your sports gig? That wasn't a bad show. And that was fun, man. Because I knew about sports and uh so it was fun to do something like uh because when I did Weekend Update and we did politics, I don't know anything about politics. Oh, yeah, you do. No, I don't. Why? Because you're Canadian. Cuz it doesn't interest me. It's gossip. I It's like reality show to me. Like if I watch uh like I sometimes I'll turn it on and I feel like a [ __ ] like a guy's going like there's a politician that I'm supposed to back or something and he's like I'm like I'm going to watch him and then he goes, "We got to get America working again." And I go, "Okay, what? I'm a [ __ ] Okay, so you don't vote. This is my guy." Well, you're an American citizen, right? No, no. You're still Canada. Who's the prime minister of Canada? Um, I don't know. Look at me. It's so inconsequential even when you're a Canadian, you rarely remember because it doesn't really, you know, it's much more if you're a Canadian, it's much more important to know the president of the United States than the prime minister of Canada and to know everybody on a hockey team. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Stephen Harper. I just got that. That's his name. Stephen Harper. That's his name. Steen Harper. Conservative from uh the West Coast. The West Coast being what? Vancouver, something like that. Uh maybe Alberta. Maybe. I think it's Alberta.

Do you sleep last night? I didn't. I haven't slept like about three days. I've been very tired. Wait, I sound tired or something? Yeah, it could have fooled me. Yeah. Well, I thought maybe I was getting a cold. I'm not sure. I had a Oh, that's Did I shake your hand? I I was I was warning everyone not to. Yeah, I'm paranoid. I don't No, I am too. I'm like all So, I I I thought it was just allergies with the chlorine. I don't know. I may be having like a a cold or some gross thing. You think? I don't know. I haven't been but I haven't been sleeping very well. I've been sleeping, but like it's a shame we don't have a sleep train to add this this hour. I could have helped you with that. Yeah, it's a sleep what? Yeah, sleep train. It's a It's a It's a sponsor of ours. Oh, sleep train. A sleep train. Yeah. And they have all these different mattresses. Oh, mattresses. I got a mattress. You got a mattress? Yeah. I got the hardest mattress there was in the store. What was that? I don't know what it's called. It's a It was a mattress store I went to. And the guy said, "What do you like this?" Uh this. And he goes, "Would you like a heart? Try a harder one." I go, "Yeah." He goes, "What about the hardest one of all?" I go, "Yeah." So, that one was really cool. I go, "I'll get this." And it's worked out. It doesn't seem to have. It's like sleeping on the floor. Is it really? Why don't you just sleep on the floor? It's cheaper. Well, I would, but people tell me I I don't know. People tell me I shouldn't. And they also I think if I roll around a fetal position be a lot of pressure on my skeleton against the hard floor. Might be too hard. Well, you could get a pillow for that. That's a lot cheaper.

Go back to the sports show. Why'd they cancel it? I don't know. I think they uh they said low numbers, but I read that would you getting like a million a million a night. That wasn't bad. It was good. Yeah, we had good numbers. I don't know why they didn't. I think they thought Well, I mean, there is a right thinking to the when something has sports in its title, no woman will watch. Therefore, you cut the audience in half instantly, which is a bad That's That's not really true. A lot of women who love sports, but the No, there's not. Not that'll watch it. Oh, yeah. No. Well, that's not what the numbers show. Really? No. The vast majority of women didn't. You know, even when like in testing, they'd show the show and then women and men would like it equally. You know what I mean? But they were forced in testing to watch it. But in the thing, when it says sports on it, that's the lady wants to turn to a different channel. We're much more uh old-fashioned than you think.

Be honest with me on something. Would you be honest with me on something? Yeah, of course. Because I don't care. It's California, not just You ripped it all. Ripped? Mhm. You mean steroids? No. Oh, no. No, no, no, no. Drip. No, no, no. God, no. I have Tired. Then you're just tired. I mean, you just come off just enjoying life too much. Just kind of Oh, no. God, I'm not enjoying life. I'm like I I'm either sick. I'm taking NyQuil. Oh, NyQuil. NyQuil is like taking drugs. Well, it is kind of. Yeah, they got alcohol in there. Yeah, I know. And I don't handle alcohol at all. But um yeah, it makes you sort of like uh it takes away your stuffed up nose. You know what helps? At the expense of being like sort of lightheaded. Ice cold studio helps. Ice it is ice cold in the studio trying to help. I said I should have a uh uh cuz I just came from L.A. where it was deadly hot. It's like 100 degrees there. Yeah, it was insane. So, well, this is our heat wave. It's going to be like 86. Lloyd's at 86 today in the city. Be cold. That is going to be very cold. That's cold. Yeah. Yeah. 86 is I'm down by the water so it should be cold there. I can imagine doing this. Also, I think my voice is real low like because I because I'm so nasal for my thing. That's what I think that's why you think I'm ripped because I I realize I'm so nasal. I'm kind of slurring and I I got to I got to get more energy, but the energy will be very false because I'm so breathless.

Would you rather be doing the show or would you rather be me having to do the interview? 80810. If you want to have fun with the eternal question, ain't it ever? 8080810 Ron Owens KGO. It's great values week at Safeway. That means great prices and amazing products. Don't miss our one. I remember as a little kid. I was like 8 years old and I was behind my garage. I was sneaking a cigarette back there and my dad caught me. I'll never forget it. And he grabbed me and he hauled me in. And I thought I was in for the strapping of my life. You know what he did? He pulled out this giant cigar. Must have been half the size of my arm. This big cigar, stuck it in my mouth, lit it up, made me smoke it all the way through, right to the end. That's when I started smoking cigars. Really happy. That of course is Norm. And now, how would you you just did you hear yourself just now? Yeah. You think you sound the same? No, I don't sound anything like that. That was when I was like young and uh I was like when I did my act I wasn't like in dead dead fear. So like my voice would like go octaves up. You know what I mean? In fear of what? People not liking it. I don't know. No. No. I wasn't really I didn't really care if people liked anything. But I I have this thing where I if I'm afraid if I go on uh stage I'll have a big heart attack and croak and then you know I always think that you do. Yeah. Again, it'd be good publicity for the club. I mean, you're going to be where you're you were going to be over at Cobb's this week. Cobb's? Yeah. Yeah, we could help him out a little bit. Nothing wrong with that. Yeah. No, I have nothing against being a martyr. All right. I'm a free speech. I'm going to I'm going to need help on this. 8080810. Folks, you help interview him. Okay, let's have fun. Rachel San Jose, start it off. Good morning. Hi. Good morning, Ron. Um, I just wanted to tell you, Norm, that I've loved you for so long, and I really love uh the roast you did for Bob Saget. That was just some of the funniest comedy I think I've ever seen. Oh, you're sweet. Saget's a friend. I like him. Saget's good. What was Where was the roast on, Rachel? I never saw it. It was I think it was Comedy Central. And so great. If you could play a clip of it, I don't know if you can, but like I can, but Chris Hernandez can. He was roasting the roast. It was Oh, it was just so funny. Ah. All right. Do you remember any of it, Norm? Yeah. Yep. What do you remember? Um I I did a roast of Bob Saget and uh why you have a clip of it? No, we will get one. Oh, he said there was a clip. I I think we're going to go Where were you where you going with this? No, I was just wondering if there was a clip. All right. No, I instead of just me just explaining it, but I was supposed to be, you know, these roast you're supposed to like insult people and be real dirty and stuff like that. So, um, instead of doing that, I got a book uh that my dad gave me when I was a little boy. It was called like 101 insults to tell people at a retirement party. So, I got all my jokes out of that book. You did? Huh? Yeah. And then I uh And none of them were dirty at all. They were like, "Um, I'm going to give it one more shot."

How did you get the Saturday Night Live gig if you were such the you were the guy that was afraid and your voice would rise? How'd you get the gig? I don't know. I just went to Lorne. Uh they like me doing they like my standup and then they said, "Come in and do two characters and uh two impressions." And I said, "I don't got nothing." And that was it. Yeah, that was it. I said, I'll go on as a writer because I said, I can't I'm not going to the audition because I don't know how to do characters or impressions.

Here's what we're going to do. You know, I've said it before and I'll say to your face, I love you. You make me laugh like crazy. I will plug where you're going. You're going to be at Cobb's uh tonight 8 and 10:15. Saturday 8 and 10:15. Sunday 8:00. Don't be upset with me. We're done. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Thanks. I love you. I like Next time. We'll catch you next time. Okay, baby. 500 new business cards. That's 500 first impressions at Staples. We know. Thank you guys. All right. Thanks. Does this work? Does this sound? Yeah, we uh Doesn't sound like much. I know it doesn't sound like much because we're like Where are my cans? No, I don't get cans. No, no cans for you. God damn. This No, you don't work with cans on your head. You don't know what cans, man. No, of course. Well, explain to the folks it You would call them headphones, but in the 1950s radio, we called them cans. Uh, Norm Macdonald has a show that premieres uh on Netflix Friday, September 14th, and I know you're out doing some publicity. Were Were you able to get any? Was anybody paying attention to what's going on here? Run, run, run, run.

Well, isn't it always funny when whoever it is ends up in the barrel for a little while? I mean, when it's not you, it's always really really interesting that suddenly the press is paying attention to you, you know? It's You mean that's a good thing? Yes. Well, I I wonder do you think do you view it as a good thing or No, I I've never believed that all press is good press thing because um of Hitler. I feel it hurt I feel it hurt his career. You know what the thing is? Like with everybody, it worked for a while. You know what I mean? For a while, like people like, "Hey, I'm hearing a lot about you, Hitler." And then uh then it turns bad, you know? But it always does turn bad at some point, no matter who the person is. Everybody, you know, has to be that that guy for a while, I suppose. You're saying I'm that guy, right? You're that guy for, you know, for at least a couple days and it'll go away. But you have to today with social media be in lockstep with the mob. That's the thing. You know, you're saying that's a good thing. No, it's the only way to survive. You're like, uh, we're antelopes in the jungle and you just want to move, find out where the lion is. That's, you know, and move in the other direction.

Well, uh, what do you feel, Ron? Um um the conventional wisdom always used to be if you do something wrong then you uh apologize, you show contrition and the public forgives you. Now that's out the window, right? And now uh Trump said it to his friend apparently the other day, deny, deny, deny. So the people who've done bad things um they'll just deny it and that's their own and I don't think that's a good idea, right? You know what I mean? Um by the way, I never did anything bad. That's the perfect angle to have and I'm as outraged as everyone else. And let's keep moving along. Yeah.

You know what's really funny about this? I've seen a couple episodes. They sent me a couple episodes to do a show. It's the exact opposite of controversial. It's a really funny uh sweet show. You're on there. I I watched the Jane Fonda one. The one probably the most controversial person of our lifetime. Sure. And yet it was just a fun sweet half hour. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not, you know, I'm not interested in that. Yeah. That's the funny thing is that I'm I have no interest in politics or you know I'm just a clown. You know what I'm saying? And what I think happened was um um John Stewart, you know, who was a great friend of mine and still is wonderful comedian, you know, fantastic comedian and uh became uh uh a political figure of not inconsiderable weight in this country for the good, I think, you know. But he was a very uh peculiar and funny. Hard to find those, you know, and uh he had a fantastic show. But what he spawned sometimes original geniuses spawn a bunch of [ __ ] [ __ ] Right. Right. And so suddenly every talk show had to be every talk show host had to be a political pundit you know and uh the last time I did um the Jimmy Fallon show Donald Trump was the host and I was a guest rather and Jimmy must up his hair Jimmy Fallon right and I remember we were watching from backstage and we're like didn't think of anything of it and then it was a big thing how dare where Jimmy Fallon mus up as if Jimmy Fallon is Tim Russert or Yeah, it's not it's not a not a timely reference since he died 15 years ago, but he's no Douglas Edwards. So, uh uh I said, "Well, that's Jimmy. It's absurd, you know." Yeah. And you know, and I I didn't watch Johnny Carson. when I was too young. But I don't think Johnny Carson addressed Vietnam more or or Watergate, you know, things way bigger than than nowadays. But that that's the way comedy has turned. So, uh, and it's fine, you know, but I'm just but I'm no good at it because I don't know anything about politics. And so, yeah, it is a little ironic. I don't like using the word ironic because it turns out I always use it wrong. Sure. Yeah. But uh but uh you know we we you know I Ted Sandis who's the head of the Netflix and became a friend of mine in the unlikeliest of ways but uh I talk to him all the time about the show. And uh I said Ted I want to give you a show that people can watch 10 years from now. You know I really and I do that my specials also. You know, I don't do very many specials, but I want them to be about themes that will live on and and you know, I don't want to make [ __ ] Murphy Brown and because those Dan Quayle jokes. Yeah. Not so funny. Although, she's back now. She's back now. Yes. And I think it'll work because now uh sitcoms have turned into this uh you know when I was a kid a sitcom would have once in a while a very special episode of Family Ties. Everybody make jokes about it and now a sitcom every [ __ ] episode is special. Yeah. Yeah. Anybody could die at any time that you're on TV. No one is spending their money if they're on a TV show. Um, it's like Lenny Clarke. I remember he got the show Lenny. Yeah. Funniest [ __ ] You know, Lenny and we were at the Montreal Comedy Festival. I met him. And everybody had their five minutes and going up on stage trying to get the perfect five minutes. And meanwhile, none of the agents or managers were there. They were all strip clubs. [Laughter] And so then at night, everybody's there at the Delta Hotel and Lenny Clarke would just be running around the room, you know, grabbing the telephone going, "Hey, it's the president of show business. He wants to talk to you over here." And then he got the show. Yeah. But his agent told him to buy a giant house, you know, cuz So he bought this big [ __ ] giant house. And uh he uh he told me he he got uh he paid two uh what do you call mortgage? Yeah. So well, I'm doing he b he paid two months of his mortgage and then he had to sell his house. Yeah. But he's a good guy. Lenny Clarke. Goddamn. I just seen you seen him. You know I haven't seen him in a while but yeah he's one of the best. He was like, "Yeah, one of the best just naturally funny guys, right?" But I saw him, he was dressed real nice. I said, "God damn, you look good. You lost weight and shit." He goes, "I married Rich."

Uh, Norm Macdonald, I like you, by the way, a lot for your show. I've always been a fan. Uh, Norm Macdonald has I don't know if you remember meeting me or not, but go ahead. No, I don't remember meeting you. Okay. Where? It was at the Boston Catch a Rising Star. Yeah. Oh, I'm sorry. the New York Catch a Rising Star. Apologies, but go back to your paper. No, no, no. I just suddenly is everybody impressed that I don't remember meeting Norm? They were like, "Hey, by the way, this is his paper." Yeah, that's the whole thing. The The same guy who set up the sound for this room gave me this paper.

I'm going to bring this up though because, you know, now we're ball-busting a little bit. When you had Jane Fonda on and you have your little blue cards. Yeah. Yeah. You had a little shake going. You were a little You were a little nervous. I get nervous as a fan. Do you really? Oh, [ __ ] I was really really surprised to see that. So, you're a giant fan of of hers. Yeah. You know how it is? Is like anybody that was a a celebrity before I got in show business? Exactly. Right. I'm [ __ ] Oh, I can't believe it. Yeah. And then anybody since they could be the biggest star in the world, I go, "What the [ __ ] do I That is 100% true. I've had that experience so many times here." But I talked to O.J. one time. He's like, and he said, uh, he said, you know, they're still the haters. Yeah. But he said, 99% of people love the juice. Yeah. Yeah. And I I was thinking he's not lying. Yeah. He's not lying. Cuz uh, you know, you think if you saw the juice, maybe you think, I know I wouldn't, that you go up to him, Yeah. you murderer. You people don't do that. No. You know that takes a special type of person. Uh what you do is like selfie. Yeah. So in his head he thinks everybody likes him. Yeah. Well, I was you know obviously when he played football he was unbelievable and then I didn't follow much after that. Yeah. I didn't I didn't keep up with the news. When you're asked you say the only thing he's guilty of is being the best running back in history of the NFL as far as I know.

Uh, Adam is here with you today. Adam Eaggan, my trusty sidekick. He is your sidekick. And Adam, here's Mike. Your part of the desk is just a little lower than everyone else. Oh, sorry. That was a very nice touch. Yeah, the kids table. Yeah, you smile there. So, how have you felt about the last week of publicity? Have you I mean, you were inside and outside at the same time. Oh, you mean you mean the last day of publicity? Uh yeah, you know, it was it's I I think that that Norm we, you know, Norm just did Stern and and I think uh he he said everything he he needed to say and that he truly believes and feels and and all the the people that are close to him know, you know, that he he just doesn't have the capacity to to to feel certain ways that I'm I'm hearing um conveyed on on Twitter and and some other places. And I I think that uh Norm really did a great job. You did a great job clearing the air today. I never got into comedy to to hurt anyone's feelings. And sometimes people will go at a show, they'll go, "Please attack my brother. Make him feel like a piece of shit." You know, cuz it's his wedding day. And I go, I don't really like to do that. And uh and then one time I did this roast of Bob Saget. it became a sort of a thing because uh because I didn't do roast jokes because I I don't like insulting people, you know, and I certainly never got into show business to ever hurt anybody. And it just made me really really sad when this uh when this thing happened uh where you're just asked question after question after question and then I I guess I slipped up and maybe said something that that people took wrong but you know I apologized to them and uh you know it's the last last reason I want to be on this earth. Sure. Sure. And you know, uh, this kind of backlash happens so fast now because of social media. And you know, Adam, I know you've been involved with the Comedy Store for a long time, but when Louis jumped up at the Comedy Cellar the other night, a couple weeks ago, the Cellar's taken a lot of heat from people who were not necessarily customers, right? You know, people Yeah. on, you know, the other side of the country or whatever. And we didn't, you know, we never had that kind of thing happened before. No.

Well, I'll tell you this, and I did not know this, and maybe you do. Canadians have gone up against Louie. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, I was talking to some comedians have said he this guy should not be able to ever perform again. Yeah. I mean, I talk, you know, they all come, you know, if you're a murderer. I'm sorry. No, no, no. I'm sorry. But if you're a murderer, you go to jail and they let you off whatever 20 years later and you try to get a job as a busboy. And if the guy says, "I'm not hiring that guy. He murdered, you know, and you go, but but he did his penance, you know, and now you give him a job. That's the humane thing to do." And people go, "Well, what about the murdered person?" And you go, "Well, of course he he got worse. He, you know, yeah, the guy that lost his life, he's he's doing worse, but it doesn't mean you you can't forgive or it's impossible to forgive. I also don't feel um anyone owes me an apology in in in public, you know. Um, I I I I think personally that you owe an apology to anybody that you did ill to. You owe an apology to uh people that uh your um uh actions hurt in a financial way or an emotional way. Uh but nobody owes me an apology, you know. Uh, so that's that's where your shock about comedians uh comes from. Yeah. Yeah. Because uh because I I don't understand why they're so uh you know I guess I just I guess I just don't understand uh how there can be no rules, you know. uh uh if if the if the rules are drawn out and set down then that's one thing but you know I always thought the audience would decide whether you're an objectionable comic or even a good comic you know and so um Louis went up here at the Comedy Cellar and uh the audience let him know I don't know what happened I wasn't there but uh but if the audience don't like him then the club won't book him. I mean that's how things work and um you know just because uh your heart can break for more than one person at the same time you know and uh and a person can do a bad thing and you can feel sorry for that person while feeling worse for the person that had the bad thing done to them.

This is all so self-evident. It's hard for me to unpack, but I wanted to use the word unpack. Well, you know, uh, we also always think of comedians being 100% free speech and stuff like that. And I don't know whether you you follow this at the New Yorker festival, but the they had Steve Bannon booked to come in and do an interview and all the big comedians said I'm not going to be there if somebody interviews Steve Bannon you know and it wasn't a thing of hey we're giving an award to Steve Bannon but it was a chance for somebody from the New Yorker to interview him and who knows what direction that would have went into but people like Judd Apatow and And uh I'm trying to think of who Patton Oswald I know was in it and and even Jimmy Fallon, they all said, "Well, we won't perform. We we won't come and and do the panel." And I'm always surprised by that angle. Yeah. I think a lot of people feel u my brother is a a foreign correspondent and he did a four-year documentary on um neo-Nazis and he interviewed all the neo-Nazis uh in the the world from from the Ernst Zundel all the way up to to David Irving and he didn't become a Nazi you know at all right and uh so I think people will go uh you know I I certainly wouldn't be a Nazi by hearing this but but Americans you know other than me Americans are just people that will believe whatever they hear and I think that's nonsense you know I think that if there was a Nazi a person could go watch him because it seems like an entertaining thing you know just the same way you listen to a guy screaming on the corner of the street, you stop and listen to him. Yeah. Right. You know what I mean?

Well, I mean, I would I would agree with you except for I learned from your show that Adam was in a cult for three years. So, I guess some people are easily molded. I just want to I just want to stress it was not a Nazi cult. Um, you know, these cult leaders, they they could They could they have a good gig going. Yeah. Yeah. And they all fall for the same trap, which is uh they start [ __ ] everybody. Yeah. And if you just, you know, you have a good life, people show up, they give you all your worldly goods, you got all the money, and then you start having sex with the ladies. then drunk with power. You're not even gay. You start having sex with the men as well. And uh you know, and then people go, "Hey, uh I was watching Fred uh [ __ ] your wife the other day, and I was thinking, uh any chance he's not Jesus? Um, so are you still with the with the store? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. By the way, I'm sorry, but but uh um um I love standup comedy so much. Uh uh Adam made the story great. Yeah, it was in real tough shape and he really single-handedly turned it around. So, it was a group effort, but thank you, Norm. Well, yeah. I would have thought the room would have applauded. No, no, I was just going to say we're in New York. Um, I think the Cellar is the closest. And God, I love the guys at The Stand. They do great work. Like, I I think that New York and L.A., I mean, there's really, it's always been New York and L.A. for the most, right? They're different, though. Yeah, then but would is would you be in a position if somebody controversial said that you know was a big name? I want to go on. Well, Roseanne was scheduled to come in last week and um she she didn't show up. I know she's going through You're not helping. Well, well, I'm Yeah, I I think that uh I I I agree with a lot of what you guys have said about free speech and I'm a I'm a strong believer in especially in comedy. I mean, it's the last it seems like the last place that you can truly have some, you know, free speech or should. And and good god, it's comedy. I mean, people are trying to you're you're trying to make people laugh, you know. Um, and it's it's unfortunate when when all the outrage is is over that and this has happened for so long. Yeah, I remember uh uh when I was starting out um Andrew Dice Clay was was a big thing and I remember talking to Kenny Rogers because he didn't like being um compared to Andrew, you know what I mean? And I thought he had the perfect line. He he called and Andrew a stag act. That was like the perfect description. But uh but you know, people be women. Oh my god, I can't believe what he said. I said, and I go, well, he just said he [ __ ] Mother Goose. Right. Yeah. So, there's no one, Adam. You wouldn't put Would you put Cosby up? Uh, no. I I personally wouldn't put Cosby up. Luckily, it's not my I don't own the club and uh and luckily I don't have to make that call. But if if they put Cosby up, what would you do that night? I would do nothing. I need to make, you know, I need to make a living, you know, if they decide that's their club. I would That was the Nuremberg defense. By the way, doesn't Adam have one of the best speaking voices ever? Just literally. It's like Welsh. Yes. It's amazing. Richard, you should be Dylan Thomas. Yeah. You should be doing poetry on stage. That's right. I disagree, but thank you.

So, how did you guys come together with this show? How did this um Well, uh we've been friends for a long time. I met him at Tempe Improv and which was the the best club in the country in my mind. I mean, I don't I don't like theaters. I like comedy clubs. And um he was the manager there and then he moved to L.A. and we were friends. And when I I said at a talk show, I said it'd be fun to to do uh um I like the sidekick paradigm from when I was a kid watching little boy watching Johnny Carson. And it's funny, you know, that you got this guy and then the sidekick sort of averse to the host and is a little scared of him but it's all playful. And I said, "But what if you just got a guy and amplified that and just [ __ ] abused him mercilessly?" And so that's why I didn't want to get a comedian. I didn't want anybody that would blow back at me. And uh but an interesting thing happens because it's me, Adam, and the guest. And it's some sort of sociology experiment because within 10 minutes, Judge Judy is [ __ ] calling him an idiot. You know, like like people, you got a bully and a and a bullied Yeah. And a third person goes, "I'll go with the bully." Yeah. Well, that we learned in school, right, in like first grade, like even if you weren't a bully, it's better to be like, "Hey, that kid is [ __ ] weird looking." That's true. You know, that's the way that you get comfortable in life. So, uh, well done. Very well. Just Well done. How do you get comfortable? Say that part again. Yeah. Well, I'm saying like even if you're not the bully, it's great to know someone else is being bullied cuz that gives you the that gives you your own safety net. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. You know, so there's a trick standup comedians do. I was thinking of writing a book, How to be a stand-up comedian. No comedy necessary because I I would go around to clubs, you know, and I go, "That guy looks familiar." Yeah. He was the bouncer last week, you know. Yeah. And they just watch and they learn the tricks. But one is this mob control. You know, I don't know a lot of the tricks. I wish I did, but um like you'll you'll take a guy in the front row, look at this guy with the hat, you know, that [ __ ] hat. And so everybody else in the [ __ ] crowd goes, "Oh my god, I got a hat here, too." So I I don't want to be pointed out, so I'll [ __ ] also jump on this guy. And uh it's just these little uh Yeah. mob control techniques that these u these standup alleged stand-up comedians use.

Well, there are I mean, occasionally you will meet the comedian who wasn't the funny guy in his neighborhood. You know what I mean? He's a guy who works real hard and probably would have made it in any business because he works real hard, but he just happened to have picked comedy. Yes. But you don't want to be stuck in this situation with that guy. You know what I because his it's always about his prepared stuff. Um, well um that's different from being a funny person, right? Um, is that what you're saying? Yes. That you you learn it. Yeah. Um, this is what I always thought about the the Harvard Lampoon or the National Lampoon. When I was a boy, Mad Magazine, we would read, I'm sure you did, Cracked and Sick and all those Mad Magazine types and then move on to National Lampoon. And it's kind of sad to me that kids don't have that anymore. They have The Onion, but that's just the headline. But anyways, uh um uh it it was sort of the way you grew up. And um I'm sorry, what were we talking about? Was about being funny, naturally funny. Oh, that Yes. That um when I went to Saturday Night Live, I got to meet some of these geniuses from my youth reading comedy. So was Michael O'Donnell and there was Jim Downey and uh goddamn these guys were [ __ ] geniuses. So and it's because they went to Harvard like Jim Downey very good friend of mine he went to Harvard and uh he took Russian literature and he was so [ __ ] smart at this you know so smart that he decided to learn Russian so he could understand the Russian literature better. So, you know, 20 minutes later, he learned Russian. So, then on his off time, and this is what I heard from all the guys there at the time, on that time, they go over to the Harvard Lampoon and scribble a a story and then it was hysterical, you know, and uh and those guys, Conan was one of those guys. And then Harvard became a place uh where it was like, I'm going to go to Harvard to be a comedy writer, right? And that's that's where that's where uh everything went off the tracks because when I when I first got to L.A. everybody in every writing room was a was a Harvard guy and I remember telling my agent I go I can't talk to a [ __ ] Harvard guy. Yeah. You know what I mean? I got an eighth-grade education. What the [ __ ] am I going to say? I I thought they'd be so funny I wouldn't be able to understand their jokes. And then I met them and they were just rich. I didn't know that's the way it worked. But uh but but they became professional and they weren't funny, but they uh they had studied it, right? They have the humor math down. The humor math down. Yeah. But I remember uh um Tommy LaSorda telling me, he said, "You know, we can teach anything in baseball. We can teach but we can't one thing we can't teach is speed." And I feel that sometimes with comedy, you can learn every trick, every high coup, but you you're either funny or you're not. You can't learn that. And I always prefer people that are just they can't do anything else but them. Yes. You know, and that's with these old guys. We had the guy we had a guy on our sitcom once and he he was his name was Jerry Belson and he was uh you'll see his credit with Garry Marshall at uh on the Odd Couple and he come in and he just pitched jokes and then uh you know everything's about story now you know well what about uh the guy's got to have feelings for the girl it's all these love stories and everything you go ah cuz he had the Odd Couple goes we had two guys one was messy one was neat They needed to get laid. We had two the pigeon sisters upstairs. So, but but he said that everybody thought he was crazy. Like literally, if you said you were a comedy writer, people are like, "What the [ __ ] That doesn't exist." Yeah. You know, and now it's a what are you gonna, you know, I'm going to be a lawyer, a doctor, a comedy writer, you know, because all those jobs lead to producing. And that's what, you know, the Harvard kids are thinking about is like, I can have two or three of these shows going and I can be incredibly rich. Sure. And you're like, yeah, but what, you know, and I'm sure you've been in comedy rooms many times. The the head writer is never the funniest writer. He's the the political guy that can talk to the network. And naturally, actual comedy writers by nature are isolates and not very good socially. So they don't rise up. Yeah. To the to to make the money, but they tell the jokes that the rich guys uh use.

Well, the entire time on SNL, you were pretty much a contrarian. You uh you didn't seem like you were playing the political game very well at NBC. [Music] Like when people would say, "Don't do O.J. jokes," you'd give them three or four that night. I I did what Lorne Michaels told me to do. Lorne Michaels was my boss, you know, and Lorne Michaels hired me and I would never do anything that Lorne didn't say. There were people that I was very naive and there were people hanging around the hallways and blue suits. I thought they were pages. Turned out they were super powerful people and but they wouldn't introduce themselves. So they go like, you know, and everything, you know, you need to tell me something straight out. I got no I don't I don't know nuance, you know, uh like, you know, I have dog whistles for racism. You got to straight out tell me, you know, you're a racist. You need to use a whistle. You need to And even whistles I don't hear. Anyways, so uh but they would tell me, you know, you guys should lighten up. uh you know, maybe on the O.J. joke. And I go I go, "Thanks. Uh can you get me a cup of coffee?" You know, cuz I thought they were pages, right? I didn't know. So, uh but Lorne was my boss. And anything that Lorne said, I I did I did that with all my bosses. I They own the cameras. And uh and I'm not stupid enough to to to think that I should be allowed to do anything on television, you know, or anything or anywhere.

You know why people always like to ask comedians like is there anything off limits? And I always think that most things are off limits. At least for me, most things are off limits. um until you can find that really funny thing about it that everybody would enjoy, you know, because there there are topics that are so off limits and then I see somebody come up with something and I go, "Well, that's brilliant." You know what I mean? Like, you know, you say, "Oh, there couldn't be a cancer joke." But then sometimes you see somebody pulls off a cancer joke that a guy with cancer is going, "That's amazing." You know what I mean? Thank you. That's you nailed it. But it has to be that joke. You have to be uh that good at it. And it's often not a joke about cancer. It's often a joke about some the experience of anything. It could be anything. It could be a joke about pride or it could be a joke about shame. It just happens to have cancer in it, you know? But that's what's so hard when people ask you to defend these uh offensive jokes. And usually the offensive jokes are [ __ ] the worst joke you've ever heard, right? Yeah. So, they missed. Yeah. You don't really want to Well, you brought that up after the first guy does it. Everybody thinks, "Let's go there." That happened, I think, with Kenny Rogers where he was doing, you know, religious material. But people didn't realize his background was amazingly, you know, religious. And he found spots that everybody could go, "Oh, that's really, really funny." Because he knew what the hell he was talking about. That's really That's really true. Yeah. Yeah. And I remember and and and the agenda of the joke was being funny, which I think has to be the first thing. Yeah. You know, and and uh and yeah, I mean, his religious stuff is the funniest stuff because it's not about, you know, making fun of evangelists, right? Is not, but it was also I always thought his stuff was like Jesus having to put up with us. You know what I mean? That was always the funniest part of that joke that he would be screaming at us and I could [ __ ] totally get that. I can't imagine how frustrating it must have been. And the lepers uh you know or the

Blind coming in to be healed, and he's like, "Can I have a moment to myself?" Everybody was bothering him wherever he went. "Uh, how did you get the guests for this Netflix show that you have? Because it's a pretty amazing group of people, uh, that you're able to pull together."

"Yeah. Um, strangely, I became friends with Ted Sarandis only. You know, I don't have that many friends, and Ted was real nice to me, and we shared a lot of interests and stuff. And, uh, he wanted me to do something, and, uh, I wrote a book, and he read the book. You know what guy reads any book? But anyways, he liked it, and I was so blown away by that, that he took the time. And then he said I was his favorite comic, and I said, 'How about you give me $20 million?' We know you got it. We read the papers. But he is, he's a, turns out he's also a businessman, but so he, uh..."

"Yeah. So he wanted me to do something, maybe, maybe make that book into a movie. And we were trying to figure out what I could do, you know, because I can't do much. And then Letterman came and for his own show and said, 'Norm should do a talk show, you know.' And, um, and then I said, 'Well, Letterman knows everything. You, I should go with him.' And, uh, but, but it's a talk show. Letterman's been of such help to me because he knows what I can do and what I can't, you know. And, uh, so he gave me so much great advice for the show. And he even said, like, he said, 'I'm not, I'm not giving you advice on how to be a great interviewer because you'll never be able to do that. But,' so he goes, 'a lot of this advice is going to be completely counter to what a broadcast or an interview such as yourself should, should do.' Uh, and he said, 'Just make it a conversation.'"

"And, uh, it's the most casual thing I've ever seen on TV. You guys come walking out together. You offer a beverage. You kind of start the show halfway through. So, it really is. It seems like it's everything that I see on TV, especially with talk shows, is so over, overly rehearsed and done. It's very, very tight. But yours has enough breathing room that something could happen. Doesn't always happen, but it could, right? It could."

"Lori Joe, I don't know where Lori Joe is, but, um, she, she was kind of the brains behind the idea of the show. And I've been working with her for 20 years or so, and she was saying, like, 'Every time you do a talk show, people always ask the same thing. They go, 'Except for my [Laughter] father.' Something just occurred to me. The first time I ever did Letterman, uh, the other guy, it was me and a guy that made, um, uh, potato chips that he had potato chips that looked like presidents. Like, one looked like Richard Nixon, sort of. Not that much. Looked more like a potato chip. But anyways, uh, my mother was like, 'Oh, how proud she was of me.' She goes, 'Oh, your dad wants that.' And my dad's like, 'Do you get to meet that guy with the chip?' But anyways, what I was going to say was, uh, what was I gonna say? Lori Joe. Oh, no. That Lori Joe said, 'You know what? Everybody asks you all the time, and I'm sure you've heard this, is what goes on in the commercials.' Now, what does Letterman talk to you about?' You know, and, and, uh, so she said, 'We, we, we should have that show, but also the show behind, behind the show.' So, you know, we don't have commercials, so we, but we, people need to take, have breathing room. So, we say we'll take a break, and then we, uh, we just, uh, uh, just tape that. And then it's so, and I almost got Spade, 'cause Spade is a guy I really wanted to get. And, uh, so he told me a story during the break, and then I said, 'Okay, we're back. Tell that story.' And then he almost did, but there's something inside him that's candy enough to, to have not fallen for it."

"You know what? One of my favorite moments was too, is, uh, you were talking about Letterman, you know, do you ever hop up? And he said he couldn't because of nerves, and you brought up nerves, and then you, you told an amusing thing about Jay, how comfortable Jay Leno is. And you saw such joy in Dave's eyes laughing about Jay, that, you know, there's still something between those two guys, you know, because that's been the big strange divorce of our whole lives. Sure has. And, you know, I wanted to get, uh, Dave and Jay together for the show, and, uh, almost didn't, but, uh, but, uh, didn't, didn't turn out that way. But, uh, hopefully in season two, yeah, we'll get James."

"Well, you could see that it's, you know, that there's something there. Particularly as you get older, you're like, 'Who gives a [ __ ] anymore?' You know what I mean? Like, I've seen that happen so many times. People in my family who weren't talking, and then all of a sudden they're older, and they're like, 'I don't even [ __ ] it.' You know what I mean? Right. Old man. Yeah. It's like, you know, there's that, that trope about like in country song stuff, the old man at the end of the bar, you know, he's been there 30 years, still thinking about that lady. And at some point, you go, 'It's probably the booze, too.' Like, 'cause when I meet old men, I go, 'You know, nobody, I never met an old man go, 'Think still thinking about Ruth,' you know? It's like, you know, they're thinking about their [ __ ] knee and [ __ ].' Right. Right. So, uh, so yeah, that's what I think those guys. And I think Leno kind of understood immediately. He doesn't take anything seriously at all, you know. Yeah. He's like, uh, I don't know. He seems, it seems like the first time they ever saw him now, with, with his car show, he seems happier than he was 30 years of having the biggest, you know, late-night show. Yeah. He doesn't see things as like, I remember once during a, a commercial, you know, he's like, 'Hey, no, I'm meeting this guy's some guy in the front. Yeah, guy sells hot dogs in Minneapolis.' I'm like, 'Oh, that's nice.' He goes, 'Norm's a comedian.' So, but it really is like that to him. It's just two guys, different things. And he's also got a thing that's really funny that it's like practical, but, uh, supra-practical, where like he'll go, like, one time we're watch, you sit there and you watch the band who's there, and he's just stomping his foot like this. And, uh, he goes, he goes, 'Buy one CDs.' And I go, I go, 'Yeah, sure. I bought CDs.' He goes, 'It's not you. Just turn the radio on. You're free music.' And, uh, and then one day, I, one time I decided to jog to get in shape, you know, and I was, I was talking to him and his wife, him and his wife. And, uh, tag is chasing, dog is chasing. But it was like my swimming pool, you know. I swim to one end of the swim. And his wife's like, 'Yeah, Jay, uh, only time he ever gets in the swimming pool is to rake the leaves.' Yeah. Well, he always bragged about not spending his salary, his, uh, salary. I'm just like, [ __ ] spend it, Jay. It's yours. You know, what are you worried about? It's strange. You're not going to run out of money, dude. Spend some of it."

"You also said with this show that you wanted, you wanted to have Robert Blake on. Yeah, that's my dream guest. Yeah. We had a producer that [ __ ] it up. We had a producer that we almost had him. He was saying how he only did the classy shows. Yeah. And we, I said, 'We, we were on.' Just, this guy pretends he can get anybody. This producer. We go, 'Just keep on, keep on talking.' And then this [ __ ] of a producer, he goes, 'Uh, I got to go now, Robert. I, I'll phone you tomorrow. I got to take my wife to dinner.' They wasn't making a joke, but idiotic thing to say. Yeah. I get it. Setup. Now, what is it about? I like that. Robert Blake's. This is what I like most about Robert Blake is his alibi. He's like, 'How could I have been the guy to shoot, to shoot her? I was, everybody saw me. I was getting my gun.' That worked. That work. I always love that. Now, were you a fan of his as an actor?"

"Or, yeah. You know, it really made me understand O.J. Simpson. Yeah. Because when I was on, uh, Saturday Night Live, there was, uh, some black staff members, and they'd say they thought O.J. was innocent. I go, 'Really?' Like, all that blood evidence? You sure it's not just because, you know, he's a black guy and you're a black guy, and police have been treating black guys bad? Is that what it is? Because I can understand that.' 'No, we think he's innocent.' And I'm like, 'Okay.' Uh, it's kind of strange. But then when, when Robert Blake, uh, went up, I love Beretta. Yeah. And, uh, I, I want him to get up. Yeah. You want it? And after that, I was like, 'Oh, I get it. Sure. Sure. Of course.' You know, I, if, uh, Robert Blake had, uh, had been in prison, I would have been rioting. And people forget Mickey, you know, when he was in the Little Rascals, Mickey was the, the greatest. Yeah. Yeah. Watch In Cold Blood. Yeah. After, you know. Yeah."

"Um, so is that, now, who is, uh, like somebody that you're dying to get on the show? So, let me, uh, try to get O.J. And, uh, his, I guess he's represented by his lawyer in Arizona. And so, uh, the guy phones him, and the lawyer is like, 'Oh, yeah, he'll do it. Sure, absolutely.' And I'm like, 'Wow, that's super great.' And then he, he phones back. He goes, 'Yes. Are you the Nor [Laughter] McDonald?' I was like, 'Yeah.' And then he said, 'O.J. said that you were particularly [Laughter] rough.' There's a moment of O.J. is one of the funniest things. They, they got him on, uh, um, I wish I, I wish I could remember the, uh, Chris Chris Myers, I think it was Chris Myers on ESPN, and he had the first interview with O.J. that was an hour long. And, you know, he, he asked him about the entire timeline. And then right at the end, he goes, 'Thanks, O.J. Simpson.' I was just like, 'Yeah, thanks for all the football questions.' He thought it was going to be, you know, I was, I was doing radio the, the day that the trial was coming back, and we just randomly called seven different continents, and every continent knew the story and was waiting, you know. We would call, like, a Roma in in some place, and, and we would say, 'Is he guilty or the trial?' Yeah, the trial. The last, the day that they said the verdict was coming in, and we asked the people, 'Do you think he's guilty or innocent?' And if anyone, any country had any color to them whatsoever, innocent. And if it was a white, you know, Iceland, like, 'No, he's very guilty.' But China, like, 'No, I don't think he did it.' You know what I mean? And it was so fascinating to me, you know. We really, that was like the beginning, I think, of white people being shocked of, 'Oh, you know, maybe, maybe we don't get everything all the time.' Yeah. You know, there, people go, people always go, 'Fox News, you know, is it racist or is it?' Here's what, why I think Fox News is racist. Maybe they hire a guy to be their expert on all criminal. If any, if any crime happens, they bring in their expert, Mark Ferman. Yeah. Yeah, guys only known for one thing. Yeah. They may as well, 'Mark Ferman, racist.' It may as well just say that. May as well be his. Yeah. When they describe people, I said Bill Maher one time, and it was Richard Belzer, and you can describe, you just tell them how you want to be described, you know. I said, 'Richard Belzer, conspiracy theorist.' And I was like, 'Everyone like you, don't, don't you lose your cred after a while if you're like, 'Well, he's written books.' Belzer has written books, uh, that go very deeply, and I never, I've never heard him say, 'I don't know this. I got to really just believe the official word on this one ever.' I think, yeah, he took, he, he went with the Mortsaw kind of career move. Yes."

"Adam, do you ever get concerned when you hear like, 'Oh, we could should have Robert Blake on the show.' Does you ever think, 'Oh, oh [ __ ] no.' You know, I actually, I had to call Robert once. I had to try and get him on there, too. Um, I was very excited for that. Yeah. Um, we all tried. It was a full court press, but I was excited about that episode, actually. I would have loved to seen those two together. Um, well, because he was always a great interviewer, you know, he thought it was [ __ ] nervous. Yeah, he, he did Carson constantly, and he had the unlit cigarette. You go, 'Let me tell you about the men, men in the suits.' Yeah. He was an, he was such an expert on any topic. He was every single topic. I was disappointed when he didn't show up, but, but we, you know, silver lining, we got Fred Stoller that day. Is there, was one of my favorite episodes, actually."

"Is there somebody out there for you that you would think, 'Oh, they would be perfect for me, but we don't, it doesn't mesh.' Yeah, I love Morrissey, or, but I don't even know him. Not Morrissey. Uh, Noel Gallagher. I would, I think he's the funniest guy. He's just so. Oh, is he not a, a musician? Yeah, he's a musician. Oh, and Iggy Pop. I, and I think you would love Iggy Pop. Oh, is that right? Yeah, I think that would be. I'll tell you this. This Spade episode was incredibly. Oh, that's good. Incredibly funny. What I liked about the Spade episode is it kind of got, uh, he captured what we were trying to get in the show, which was the show and the show behind the show at the same time. And I thought, really, only two people that are the embodiment of that. One is Spade, and one's Marty Short, where, uh, nobody knows show business is, is more complete [ __ ] than Spade, right? But they both love it so much. They love the [ __ ] out of it. So it's a funny dynamic because usually the, you know, the person that has contemporary show business is like Letterman or something, but just cordons himself off in a, in a, a compound somewhere. But Spade's on every, uh, red carpet. He took me to these [ __ ] bars. I don't know how people have the, the, I'm just always tired. And he's like, 'Let's go. We'll go to a bar.' I just did this one night with him. We go to a bar, and then he's like, 'Come on, come with me.' And the, the, you butt in to the bar. Yeah. You know, every was like, 'And people go, 'Get out.' All right. These guys were on the TV, and you're like, 'So then you're in this bar. [ __ ] all close to, there's a guy a half a foot from you, and then Spade goes, 'Let's go.' And like, 'What?' And then you go to another place, and then eight places later, nothing has been accomplished, and I'm so tired. But he said, 'It's all about being seen. All about stuff.' You know, it's funny because I've been, I was trying to do the math because I've been to six Hollywood parties in my life, and I got, uh, two jobs. So, uh, that was pretty good. So, so then part of me said, 'What have I done [Laughter] 6,000?' Um, because this is what happens. People don't know you're [ __ ] alive and [ __ ] right? And, uh, so, uh, I did this one time after I did a show. I said, 'I'm going to take a year off.' I take a year off. No one assumes you took a year off show business. They assume that you got kicked out of show business, right? And you have to start all over again. And, uh, so I said, 'God damn, I'm going to go start going to parties.' And, you know, I get a third, a third of the time because people that next day they're, they go, 'Hey, man, you know who we should get? That [ __ ] guy that fell into the swimming pool, whatever.' But I, I just, I wouldn't be able to to write. And, uh, you know, um, you know, I write a lot. That, that's why I'm, I'm not very good, as you can tell, socially. I stutter and I'm not too good. But, uh, most time I'm alone writing. But do you, uh, can't go into that party and kind of turn on the Norm stage act? You, you know, can't be that guy."

"Yeah, I can do it. But it's exhausting. It's like it's like doing a four-hour set. Uh, it's like when Jesus was touched by the the lepers, you know, he lo, he'd lose some of his power. I don't like comparing myself to Jesus, but if everybody's going to do it. Is is there a goal that you had that, uh, you never got a chance to reach? Is there something that you said, 'Oh, I really, in show business.' In show business, something that you'd hope that you would have gotten the chance to do?"

"Well, I mean, I would, I, I would love to start now, you know, in, in show business because when I began, I was always like, I, I, I never wanted to do anything but standup comedy. And I said, 'I want to do standup comedy and then become a big stand-up comedy star and only do that.' But, uh, it quickly became, I became evident that you can't make enough money. So, uh, you know, you advance for a while, and, uh, and then somebody says, 'Hey, what about this? You know how you're really good at standup? What about if you do something you're terrible at, and we'll pay you 10 times as much?' Yeah. And, uh, you'll, uh, act, and you'll fall in love with the girl. And then I'm like, 'I'll take it. Yeah, I'll do it.' And then so, uh, what I, what I, I told Ted Sarandis this. I said, 'You've really done something good by giving $20 million to these comedians, um, um, Chappelle, and, uh, a couple others.' And, uh, because it's made, you know, it's taken this what's always been considered a vulgar art, standup, and it's made a person now, a person can go, 'I want to be a standup,' just like a person could say, 'I want to be a novelist,' or 'I want to be an actor.' 'I want to be a standup.' That's all I want to be. And that's what I wished maybe I had done. Uh, but I didn't have the guts to. I had a kid, and I had to feed. But nowadays, I would just, I, I would certainly advise standups. Just aim, aim at that. It, it's really rare. I mean, it's a very short list of guys that can draw big just from doing standup. I mean, I think Carlin was that guy, and Brian Regan today is that guy, where his audience shows up for him and without have ever seen him, you know, do a sitcom or a movie. Isn't that funny? Like, you know, when, you know, they always ask lists. They always have lists of, they love listing standup comedians and who's the funniest, you know, every once in a while, the funniest man in the world. And you go, 'But he's been around for years, right?' And, uh, and, uh, but anyways, in these lists, somehow, clearly the best comic in the world is Brian Regan, without question. Uh, and, and you don't need a comedian to say that. You need just anyone that's ever watched him to say that, you know, and, uh, and yet I never see him on those lists. No, it is. And it's because of the people who write those lists aren't exactly people that care about standup comedy. Unfortunately, it's not. There's some guy in the Times named Zinnamon. I don't know if you know him, but he seems to know a little about standup comedy. But it would be nice if stand, I know standup comedy is a very, very new art form, if you want to call it an art form. Um, I don't, I don't think it is an art, personally. But, uh, but [Music] um, but it's great. I think what Ted did, what Ted Sarandis did specifically in, in getting a whole bunch of money to Chappelle."

"If you don't think it's art, what do you think it is?"

"Well, I think, I think it's craft, because what the only reason I say it's not art is because art allows for interpretation, right? But if you do standup comedy, and you can't have people interpreting it a differently. You can't have this guy laughing at this part, this guy laughing over here, this guy laughing. You know what I mean? You can't have different layers of laughter. You, your job is to say it, and then make a noise. Right? And then say something else, and then make another noise. And that's craft, obviously. That's craft. Uh, where I guess it can ascend into art is [Music] um, is subject matter. Um, I guess that would be the, if you can, if you can reveal something."

"Um, what about for you, Adam? You feel the same way? It's, it's not art, or I think it's a, I think it's a little blur. I, I, I could see both sides. Um, yeah, I think that there's art to it, but I, I understand a lot of what Norm just said. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, to me, art, to me, I guess, um, like a person who takes, uh, a very simple idea and, and, and, um, and explores that idea to its, to its, which, which I feel the best stand-ups do. That's an intellectual exercise. Take something simple and make it incredibly complicated and look at all the minutiae. Art, I feel, is to take something incredibly complicated and reduce it to a line, you know, and, uh, I think that's how I would define art. And so that's pretty hard to do in standup. People have done it, not for their whole acts, but people, yeah, just every once in a while catch that thing that is just, catch that truth. Yeah. That truth that everybody immediately changes, you know what I mean? Immediately will be able to go, 'Oh, I thought I felt that way about it. I now feel this way about it.' And then you'll hear that being kind of taken and working into. I remember when, uh, Louie did the thing of saying, 'I hate my kid.' Like the first time I heard that, it was shocking. And then I heard, like, you hear a lot, you hear newscasters saying it. 'My kid's a dick.' And everyone laughs. Um, Kenan Thompson would give him a sandwich. That thing started to just move. Not even other comics stealing it, but politicians. And then you would go, 'Okay, so everyone's moved over.' So it's cool that that, that person, even though they got stolen. It's like that with impressions sometimes, like, uh, you know, people would, you know, Dana did the impression of cars, and you, I did not know that, and then people would go, 'I did not know that.' Well, you're really stealing that from Dana. Like, that's when you have a great impressionist. He cracks that thing, but then everybody else starts at that point. So they're like, 'Yeah, when I was a kid, nobody could do Bob Hope.' Yes. Yeah. Right. Now, now everybody can do it. Uh, but with, like, I remember with, uh, with Dana, you just have people starting with, not canding a funny place to go with that. I was so shocked because I remember because Reagan was the president, and I was like the vice president. Nobody's gonna be able to do him. He has nothing. And so, yeah, Dana just made it up from scratch. That's so funny."

"Uh, you're really enjoying doing this, uh, show though. This is, uh, you think something you want to do for a while, right?"

"I would love to do it forever. Yeah. Because, uh, uh, Lori, who I work with, I don't know where she is, but she and I have always worked together, and she said, 'Let's, uh, because I was real friends with, uh, Ted Sarandis,' which is strange, and, uh, and Dave, and I said, 'You know, these, this is a chance to work with people that are friends.' And then she said, 'Let's just hire. Everybody we hire will be our friends.' Because as everybody knows, whenever you work together, if there's one bad person, that person becomes the person that everyone else talks about. I don't know what it is about human nature. You're like, 'Mother [ __ ] mercy.'"

"Well, I think Lori is trying to make sure all your other interviews don't get cancelled. So, uh, thank you. We'll catch you on the view. So awesome. You're such a great interviewer. I always love watching you. And, uh, and, uh, Norah McDonald has a show, and like I said, even though all this controversial stuff is happening, this is just a funny, silly show that these guys do. Adam, thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much for having us. It was really great. Yeah. Thanks for putting that away. Nor McDonald, everybody, let him hear it. Thanks, buddy. That was really great. Thank you so much. [Applause]"

"I, I am doing well. Um, so the question on everyone's mind is, are you going to host this show? Are you gonna, are you going to permanently host this show?"

"Oh, uh, no, I won't. No, I prefer you. Thank you. Yeah. If, uh, what did L.B.J. say? If, uh, elected, I will not. If, uh, what is it? If nominated, I will not run. If elected, I will not serve."

"Well, you, I like Chad, man. What about, what about entertainment in Canada, period? What about it? Would you ever, do you want to work up here? Hey, working up here. What do you think of the entertainment?"

"When I was starting, and, and I, I started a long time ago. I'm old man, you know, 52 score and 10, as Abraham Lincoln would say. I'm, uh, so, you know, let's face it, I've seen more sunsets than I'm going to see. But when I started out in stand-up, um, there was no, uh, Canadian TV, you know, there was nothing or movies or nothing like that. So we did our stand-up, and then we would travel around. And, uh, thanks to this, uh, very nice man named Mark Breslin, who started, uh, Yuk Yuks, we got a chance to do stand-up. And, uh, but there was nothing that we were going for. There was only getting better at stand-up. When I moved to Los Angeles, I started noticing the first thing I noticed was, goddamn, everybody's handsome. Like, all the stand-ups were super handsome guys, which, uh, is not the case here, or it was not the case when I was here. And so I was like, 'That's weird.' And then I realized they were only using stand-up as a springboard to other things, which, uh, I don't like. I just like stand-up for its own sake."

"Was it the performance side you liked first, or the writing?"

"Writing. I like to write. Like, even later, like I thought, um, man, I should be doing something on stage because I would write the jokes, and I would just stand like a statue on stage. I move a little bit now, but, uh, literally, I'd be frozen with fear, but also I would never, it never occurred to me to, if I was talking about rocking a baby, to pretend to rock a baby with my hands. I thought I just said it. So, I could have really, uh, just, uh, uh, put a bunch of papers on a stool, uh, in front of everyone and let them peruse it."

"How did you get better at that?"

"I never got better. I, I'm, I'm a little bit better at, um, physicalizing my act a little bit, but, uh, I'm still, it's still mostly words. It's the imagination, you know, the mind. When I was young, we had radio, and in many ways, it was better. No, I'm just kidding. But, you know, how they say that old men, they're like, 'We would listen to the radio.' And it was better 'cause your imagination is better than your, you know, especially hardcore pornography. And you go, 'What?' You know, it's a weird thing though. Seriously. Yeah. They go like about, just speaking of pornography, 'cause nowadays it's so awful. But in the old days, in the old days, all you had to see is a, a fleeting glimpse of a lady's ankle, and that would be enough. But you think about that, that's gross. Like that's a guy's at home doing gross stuff to himself, thinking about a lady's ankle. Damn, that's kind of odd, too. And so, are you think radio was better as far as the imagination? Just generally, I like radio comedy, which doesn't exist anymore. But, uh, uh, I was thinking of doing, you know, they podcast, radio, podcast stuff. I was thinking of doing an old-timey radio thing, 'cause there are radio jokes that can't be done on television. I can't think of one, but, you know, it'd be like, uh, um, and, and, and it doesn't help any that you're wearing a, you know, a pink chiffon something. You don't see, but works after the joke, uh, that you just heard, you know, informs the joke, uh, afterwards. I don't know a lot of words, Chad, and I'm trying to fit them in properly. Okay."

"I, I want to stick on the topic of Canada for a second since we have you here on our public broadcaster. Yeah. Um, you've said that as a young man, going on the train across Canada was one of your favorite things. I love that. Yeah. What was it about that that you loved?"

"I'm gonna do that again. I think it was, uh, you, while you see the country, the train is the most beautiful, you know, um, all through literature, the train has, well, actually it symbolized death, that's not a good one. But, uh, uh, uh, when you go on a train across Canada, you start, uh, Moncton, and you go across, uh, the first couple days, people are normal. After that, people go crazy, start having sex with each other. Not me, but I saw it. And then a guy gave me a cookie. I was only 16, right?"

"He gave you a cookie. Is that like a signal or what is that?"

"Yeah, like a, one of those cookies that's laced with the, Oh, okay. Drugs. But I was only a kid. I was only 15, 16. So the guy sitting right beside me, he's like, 'Hey, you want one of these cookies?' I go, 'No, man. I don't want no cookie.' He's like, 'These are good cookies.' I'm like, 'I don't, I don't care. I want no cookie.' He's like, 'I'm telling you, this is a good.' Like, enough of the cookies. So anyways, whatever. The guy finally started stop yapping about his cookies, you know. And then I woke up like a day later or whatever, and nobody was around. And I was hungry, and there was the bag of cookies. I ate the whole bag. Oh, no. Yeah. It didn't turn out well. And then I remember there was a little elderly black gentleman that was a porter, who, uh, I, uh, I said really filthy things to, like, uh, I almost, like, I was coming on to him as a teenager. Yeah. I was, because of the cookies. Because of the cookies. I figured I'd have my sexual awakening with a 78-year-old, uh, man."

"But you went back onto the train, though."

"Yeah. I've been on the train three, three or four times. So that didn't scare you off. No. The train across Can, if anybody has a chance to do it, is is the most beautiful experience. You know, you go through Kicking Horse Pass and stuff, and you, you go in the bar car, and, and you meet strangers, and you look out the window, you know, and there's a lady putting up her, uh, you know, her wash on her line with her clothes pins. It's very romantic, right? You imagine your life in any of these little cities, and what it would maybe look like, right? Yeah. And she, the lady with the clothes pins, imagines your life. Yeah. Uh, and you brought up Moncton. That's where the train line starts. Yes, sir. And you tweeted a really great story about your friend Phil. Oh, yeah. Yeah. In Moncton."

"Can you tell us about that?"

"Uh, well, uh, there was some, uh, unpleasantness in Moncton, uh, a year ago or so. The shooting. With the shooting. Yeah. Uh, which is something that happens in our times. That didn't happen when I was a boy. But, uh, yeah, I knew an old man there who, uh, who my friend, uh, Shaggy, that wasn't his real name, but he sounded like the dude from Scooby-Doo. And, uh, so we all laughed about that 'cause we did Count Chocula and smoked marijuana. And, uh, so he said, 'I was going to Moncton.' I just started taking the train, and I said, 'I guess work.' He said, 'Oh yeah, my old man's there, you know, Phil.' And, uh, so anyways, uh, uh, when this unpleasantness happened in Moncton, um, it was the, it was the, it was the, um, the Kings were in the finals, you know. Yeah. Los Angeles. And I was there, and I had a ticket, and, uh, instead of going to the game, I phoned Phil, talked to him, and he was like, barricaded in his basement. It was kind of cool. Like, I was talking to him, and then he was halfway through, he's like, 'Ah, screw this, man. I'm going to go upstairs.' He kept talking about his 50. He had a big 50-inch TV. He was going to watch it. And then he reminded me of all this stuff that I was there. And then the coolest one thing was he reminded me that he had taken me to a game where, uh, Daryl Sutter had played in the game, like a junior hockey game. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it's really, really, it was amazing. Yeah. It was amazing."

"You, you tweeted that story. You also tweeted a really touching story about Robin Williams. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What is it with Twitter and, uh, the short stories? You seem to like that form. You express yourself well in it. People like it. What is it about about Twitter and short stories for you?"

"Well, 'cause I didn't know what Twitter was for, really much, you know. People told me, 'You got to get Twitter,' and I was like, 'No, people just say that, you know, I'm eating a hamburger,' stuff like that's what I thought it was. Yeah. Which kind of is it? Yeah. And, uh, so then I went on and I told some jokes, and then my fans would go, 'That one sucks.' They're supposed to be your fans, you know, they just abuse you constantly. So, uh, but then I would sometimes have memories of people, you know, people pass or something, and I'd have a memory, and, uh, uh, no one to tell it to, and so it would just be late at night, and sort of, it's not really meant, uh, as anything that would ever be published or anything. It was just a, a way of me telling, uh, the people that, uh, followed me on Twitter that I knew Robin Williams, and I met Robin Williams once, and he was very sweet to me. And, um, so I just, you know."

"Do you think people are getting a different side of you through those sorts of tweets and short stories?"

"Uh, yeah, maybe, like, you know, pe, people are always thinking, you know, uh, that you're, uh, um, that there's only one side to you, when, you know, the performing side of a person obviously is the, the smallest side of, of their, uh, of their facets, you know, but, um, yeah, maybe they get a little bit of, but that's not really why I do it. I just do it 'cause it's late at night, and I'm alone, and I don't drink or smoke or do drugs or, uh, be promiscuous or anything. So, I just kind of reflect a lot."

"Well, another thing people got a sense of you from, uh, Twitter is when you defended Alice Munro. Uh, a little, little attack from Brett Easton Ellis. Yes. Yes. Well, there's this guy, Bret Easton Ellis. So, I don't really follow modern, I don't think you call that literature, graffiti, whatever it is he does. So he, uh, he had written something against Alice Munro, and then, uh, I gave him the benefit of the doubt. I read one of the, one of his, uh, quote unquote books, and, which, which one? American Psycho. American Psycho. Yeah, that was the famous one. And people told me it was good, but whatever. So then I was like, 'How dare this guy, you know, to say something about something he doesn't understand, you know? I mean, they, it's one thing you can be a bad writer, but god, at least read, you know, at least you learn to read if you're going to be a writer, for God's sakes.' Well, people probably didn't know about your interest in literature, uh, in your analysis."

"No, people, no, people don't know that I like writing a great deal, you know. It doesn't, it doesn't matter to me the source, but the greatest writers are novelists, but, but then I would put, I don't know, maybe, uh, singer-songwriters. I put way, way up there. Ahead of comedians. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Why?"

"Well, because I don't think of comedy really as an art, like, uh, I think of, um, other things. I think of comedy as a more of a craft. You know, it can reach certain levels, but only certain levels, because comedy requires laughter. And as soon as you require something of an audience, you're in, you're in trouble. You know, to..."

"That's interesting, 'cause to me, comedy is the highest art, really, because it's the most kind of simple and precise, and it holds the most things together. Like, in, in one joke or one sort of comedic phrase or story, you can represent so many things, and it's laughter is kind of the thing that brings the most people together. I think even more than music, people like laughter. Uh-huh. So I think it's kind of the..."

"What did you just say, though? That it holds what?"

"It holds so many things together. You know, somebody, somebody can can tell a joke that is true, that is funny, that is sad, kind of all at the same time, and it can be as short as one line. So, to me, it's actually kind of the highest art."

"No, I mean, as far as writing goes, like to me, the shorter the better. Like, uh, like if you take comedy writing, like a movie would be the worst to me, and then a, a TV show, and then a sketch. I mean, in terms of hardness, and then a joke would be the hardest. Than this shortest joke, you know, like, uh, there's a famous joke by Henny Youngman, 'Take my wife, please.' So that's a four-word joke, you know, three-word setup and one-word punchline. That's incredibly difficult. Um, but, um, no, the, the reason I was saying is because you have to produce laughter. So you can't have, you can have a layered joke, but you can't have something that can be interpreted by different people in different ways, because you have to create a noise at a certain time, and that noise has to be, um, consistent. So every single person in that audience has to understand. So therefore, it's a little bit of a blunt force instrument. Yeah. Um, uh, you know, but there, but there is a way to, there is a way to bring art, you know, into comedy, into comedy, but it's, it's, it's, it's more difficult. I have to say, my favorite, I don't, I, I'm not usually serious about stuff, so I'm not good at it."

"No, that is, that's that's great. I have to say, probably my favorite thing about you, and I told you, I saw your show in Vancouver. Uh-huh. I pretty much paid the ticket, however much it was, to hear you say the phrase, 'on account of.' That is like, to me, the funniest thing. 'On account of.' 'On account of.' That's kind of a Canadian, uh, phrase, I think. Did that just strike you as funny, or is there, did you ever analyze that? There's something about that is just hilarious. I paid $50 to hear you say that live."

"Anaka. Yeah. I, I was, I grew up, Chad. My father was old when he had me. Yeah. And is 50, a little old, older than 50. And then, uh, I grew up in rural, uh, Canada, very barren soil, and everybody was old except me and my brothers. So everybody was like, all my dad's friends were 50. So I, I grew up with all the old guys. And so I, I took on a lot of their phrases and stuff like that. So sometimes, like my dad, remember my dad would say, 'She's no hell.' And, uh, it was such a weird phrase to me about, that meant she's nothing special, you know, she's not that pretty. Okay. She's no hell. But you think it would be, 'She's no heaven.' Yeah. Yeah. But, but I, yeah. So I, I'd learned phrases like that. Uh, and fans also love your fearlessness on stage. On account of what? On account of you going on, you know, talk shows. Even Conan O'Brien has talked about how you're unpredictably, never knows what you're going to do."

"Well, what happens is, in talk shows, they tell you, not here, but, uh, you know, and Letterman and Conan and stuff, they pre-interview you. So you tell a story to the pre-interviewer, then he tells Letterman, then you go on, tell Letterman, he already knows the story. Yeah. So I started when I first started, I was like, I just made up a whole bunch of stories that I didn't tell. So I'd tell the pre-interviewer a bunch of stories. Then I'd get on Letterman, he'd ask me, and I'd tell him all different stories, uh, to surprise him, you know, so he would know the story, because that sucks if a guy's already heard the story. And, uh, so then finally they decided, ah, what's the use, you know?"

"But do, do Letterman and Conan and these guys like when you throw something new at them, or do they, are they like?"

"No, they like it. Yeah, they like it. They're cool with it because, well, I mean, Letterman's the funniest guy I've ever met. So he's like, you got to keep up with him, you know? He's very, very difficult to, uh, to, to stay with, you know, 'cause he's just so funny and so fast and so super sharp. And, you know, I remember one of my first things I ever did. It was this joke that I, it had been in my act for a year or whatever. And I did it on panel with him, talking panelist, when you just talked to the guy. And, uh, then he did a line right after it that was funnier than all the thing. I was like, 'Ah, damn. I worked for a year on that joke, and you just thought of it out of your crazy big mind.' Did you first meet him doing stand-up, or did you first meet him on that show?"

"No, on, uh, on, on that show. He, he did stand-up for a very short time when I was a, a young boy. But, uh, he was not a stand-up, but, but, uh, he was nice to me. He's taken me to dinner and stuff and talked. You know, he's kind of an odd duck, but, uh, uh, super smart and, uh, really, really funny. But you can be having dinner with Letterman, it'd be like six, you know, he always brings five or six guys, so he's protected. And then he'll be like, 'I got to go to the bathroom.' And then, uh, he's, he leaves, and then people go, 'I guess he's not coming back.'"

"Does it ever scare you? The chaos, the chaos of being unpredictable, of sharing some story that, you know, hasn't been vetted by everyone else."

"Sometimes I do do get scared. I get scared on the Howard Stern show because it's so long-form, and he does this thing where he's super honest, and then he makes you be super honest, and then afterwards you're like, 'What did I say? What did I say? What did I say?' And then I remember one time I was in a, a limo, like right after Stern. I was talking to the limo driver, and this Greek guy, and I was like, I was talking to Stern. I don't even know what I said. He's like, 'Yeah, he's like, he like a hypnotist.' He go, 'I bring my wife to, uh, I bring, I don't know if this is very good Greek. He goes, 'I bring my wife to.'"

To Las Vegas one year. Hypnotist bring me up. I talk to him. I don't know what going on. All of a sudden I'm in my underwear. So it's like that's was like he like looks you right in the eye, talks to you and now all of a sudden you're in your underwear.

Sidebar, do you think that actually works that hypnotist stuff? I tell you, man, I saw Ravine the Impossibus once and that was a guy's name. Yeah, it was at the NAC in Ottawa where I live. I was 13 years old and he had guys up there and he was talking to him and there said you do and one so everybody running around. One guy talked like he was from the moon. He said, "You from the moon. You got moon language." And this other guy, he does this other thing and you're a chicken and stuff. Right. Right.

So, as all chaos going around and the guy pecking, I remember the chicken guy went right by me. He was pecking trying to get some food. There's no food. And anyways, after the show, I was out in the parking lot with my brothers, right? And I see I go, "There's that chicken guy. I'm going to talk to him." So, I went up to him. I said, "What was that light, man? You thought you were chicken?" And then he's like, "It was cool." And I was like, "Wait a second. Hold on." Like if you thought you were a chicken for 15 minutes if you had that psychic break, you go like you go like, "Oh my god, I got to go lie down and seek counseling." And you know, so the guy was just going along just lying. He's like, "It's cool. How's that cool?" Thinking you're not even a human. So no, I don't believe it.

I was They wanted me to uh stop smoking. say go to a hypnotist and they'll you know it work for me. I'm like I don't I feel I want to quit myself on account of I don't want to be that weak that a hypnotist you know I go hey man I quit smoking. That's the good news. Bad news I got no will of my own. It's a old man uh we're on blower street. He makes my decisions for me.

Um, okay. Just going back to the the chaos for a second and uh sorry, I have to catch my breath. Uh, yeah, going back to the to the chaos for a second. Is there anything in those moments that comes to mind that you've regretted? Like, oh, I shouldn't have taken that turn. That really really stands out for you. I shouldn't have said that or I shouldn't have made that joke.

Um, no, not usually because I like I bomb many many many many many many many times and uh when I do I have sort of outer body experience because there's a thing with stamps when you see another guy bomb you're like ah you like it I don't know what it is but you're used to seeing people do good and if you know people have stories even in life usually the stories something bad happened to you if you all your story is you're the hero that's not a good story no you know and then I did good again you know so uh usually The usually the stories are you're embarrassed, I'm bad, happening that so I get a kind of outer body experience while I'm bombing because I think it's kind of funny like guys went there to laugh and then nothing worked out and then also it's funny they hate your guts. Like you're doing your best. It's not like you're intentionally, you know, trying to make them not laugh. Yeah. But you're just failing and then they're like we hate you like you know. And so I find that kind of funny. Then I smirk and then they really really hate me.

But that doesn't exist in other forms of performance. Like if I go up and I play a song and people don't think it's great, there's like this instinct to clap. Yeah. Right. People just clap cheer. They're just just this instinctual thing that happens because the song's done. Yeah. But with comedy, it's almost the opposite. It is. They got cl You know, you can get people to clap. I always thought clapping for comedy was the opposite thing you want because clapping is like a scent sort of. They're saying we agree with you, you know, it's usually like some lame thing like you go Pat Buchanan's a Nazi or some ridiculous thing. Um ridiculous thing and uh so uh uh but laughter is involuntary. Yeah. You know, laughter is like people don't don't expect or want to laugh, but uh uh applause is like, "Yes, we agree. You are right. George Bush started a war." You know, you're like, "Well, where's the goddamn joke? We We got to wrap up unfortunately." You are awesome. Well, thank you. You are You are great. And I hope you stay I hope you stay uh you stay here. Do the job. That'd be awesome. Thank you very much. I'd love to have you back if I do. Yeah, that would be great.

Um, last last thing. You were campaigning for Craig Ferguson's job and um we just want to know what's next for you. We we want to see more of you. We want to hear more of you. That's a nice thing to say. That's the truth. I don't know why you're so plural. Why is it just you? What do you mean? Did they teach you that on radio? Go. We would like to see. No, that's uh actually I think they're trying to get me not to say that. Oh. Oh. Anymore? Yeah. Say I and say I. But uh I don't know. Oh, it's like a natural differential I think polite thing maybe or something. It feels too intimate to say I do. Oh, okay. So, hey, there's some music. Oh, there's some music. Yeah. So, we got to go. Hopefully, Nor will stick around. Nor McDonald is at the Queen Elizabeth Theater in Toronto tonight and at Hamilton Place in Hamilton, Ontario tomorrow. He joined us. I believe the Hamilton one was the last Cosby performance. True. uh the people in my in the neighborhood. We're going to call it. And I discovered this great little uh that's the name we came up with. This great this great little doughnut shop right around the corner here in beautiful Burbank. Beautiful downtown Burbank. Let's have a look at the doughnut prints. This doughnut shop. It's been here probably since the the 50s or 60s. I don't know. I should have figured out exactly when it um Oh, I lost my monitor again. Oh. Oh well. Is it still playing? I lost my moni. Anyways, the There we go. The donut. Doesn't matter that I lost my monitor. We have a new truck, by the way. We have a new camera truck that it's working really well. We're really excited about it. And um we have all sorts of new technology. That's why the show, you may may notice, looks a little better this week. The lighting is a little better. Um I'm actually not more well-rested. I just uh we have better lighting. This is our truck. This is a new space-aged um literally a space-aged piece of equipment that we're using here. This is the uh this truck, this camera truck was used by NASA for the last uh 8 years. Uh for eight years they filmed the space shuttle launches with this truck. We actually have footage. This is actual footage. This footage was shot by the truck that we're using tonight to broadcast this show. This actual footage that you're looking at right now of the space shuttle taking off was shot with the exact same equipment that we're using here tonight to film this show. And so we're proud of that. I'm proud of that. It's uh essentially a metaphor for what we're trying to do here. Uh we're trying to take uh television into uh places uh new places. We're trying to discover uh new uh adventures in space we're going to have here this season. Um I'm trying to have I want to have fun this season on the show. So that's why I'm talking louder than I talked last season. You may notice my voice is is louder than it was last season. It's because I'm trying to have more fun on the show. I'm getting a new car. Uh, can we show a picture of the car that I'm thinking about purchasing for $750? This is a 1974 Pontiac Firebird. And uh, the idea is that I'm going to we're going to get this car. I'm going to get this car and I'm going to be driving around Los Angeles over the next year and uh, making some videos around Los Angeles, stopping in to places like the Donut Prince and other Los Angeles landmarks. And it's going to be a lot of fun. So, that's what we're doing on the show this year. Thank you for being here tonight. Thank you to all our loyal viewers. Uh, we're going to have a great season. Nor McDonald is here tonight for the hour. We'll be taking your calls. This is very exciting. You can call on Skype. If you want to call and talk to people on the show, just go to my Twitter at Tom Green Live. All the information will be on there on how you can be part of the show. Stick around. We'll be right back with Nor McDonald for the hour. You're watching Tom Green Live.

[Music]

Hello. Welcome to the show, Norm. Thank you for coming to the show. Yeah, it's great, man. I'm excited. Yeah, this is great to have you here. I like the donut prince. And I'll tell you why. Okay. Man has humility. Mhm. [Laughter] He owns the joint. He could easily be the donut king, right? That's right. Yeah. It's humility is a lost virtue, Tommy. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I'm going to have to ask him about that. I actually met the doughnut prince yesterday. You did? Yeah. I went down there. I met him and I asked him if it was all right if we spoke about his his establishment on our television show. Yeah. Actually ran it past him. Yeah. He seemed pretty uh happy to have us talk about it, believe it or not. Well, sure. He'd love that, man. Unless he's a a brutal prince. Yeah, could be. It's just was one of those things where, you know, there's all these old businesses in Los Angeles and uh you enjoying the electronic cigarette norm. I just I gave you that. I never had it. Yeah. This is uh I've been uh you got to let go of the button though when you're not smoking it or it'll it'll blow up in your hand. It's a B. It's essentially a battery that will explode if you The thing about that brand of electronic cigarette, uh not to go on and on about it, but if you put it in your back pocket and you sit on it, uh you'll you'll feel it starting to burn a hole in your in your ass. Yeah. I don't know if you've ever had the experience. You don't smoke, but uh uh a pack of matches suddenly igniting inside of your uh um that actually happens. Sure. It happens quite quite frequently amongst uh common smokers. You know, Mackie. Mhm. Sure. Yeah. In his later days, he became a big fat pig and all he wanted to do was eat. And he wrote a famous treatise on uh power uh by uh eating. It was called the donut prince. Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. The doughnut prince would fake his own death to hide from his enemies in a pile of cronuts or something like that. Right. This network is owned by Mark Cuban. Yes, that's right. Yeah. And an interesting side note, I did a show called The Sports Show and Mark Cuban liked it and wanted to do it on his network which was at a different name at that point. Yeah. HDNet. Yeah. And uh I love my favorite team because my son's favorite team is the Dallas Mavericks. Right. Absolutely. And I don't know basketball. I'm from Canada like you. Yeah. You don't know basketball? No. You you know a lot about sports though. I do know a lot. You're a big sports fan. But I would not pick the Dallas Mavericks. But my son loved him. And my son was very angry at Mark Cuban because the Mavericks had a shot at Deron Williams and uh you know the everyone was trying to woo him. Yeah. And when Geron Williams went to Dallas to meet the Mavericks ownership, uh Mark Cuban was here in LA getting makeup done for their Shark Tank. Okay. All right. So, you're trying to get me fired right now is what you're saying. Is that what it No, God bless Mark Cuban. I love him. I love a guy in the that that's with his team. He's in the stands. He's cheering on his, you know, he's a fan. That guy. Absolutely. He's a fan. He treats his players like no other owner treat their, you know, he's like the anti like Jerry Jones. He's been very supportive of this little show here. He sent me many encouraging emails. Oh, that's wonderful. So, now you uh are doing a great new television show now, a podcast, a video podcast, Norm McDonald Live. I did it for a while, Tommy. Mhm. You were on it. You were kind enough to be a guest. And you know what? Here's how good it was. Yeah. It wasn't even a TV show, right? And uh um Entertainment Weekly ranked it as the third best TV show. That's amazing. Isn't that incredible? But it is a TV show. Yes. I do it as a TV show. I do it like you're doing this. This is on a TV network, but I do it as a TV show that goes to um you know the internet. So, it's a video podcast, but it's not one of these where where you get a two comedians talking about some [ __ ] nobody knows anything about. Right. Right. Like this. No, no, no, no. I think we're pretty accessible. Absolutely. But I think some of these uh comedy podcasts are so, you know, they're like uh and now we're doing the full hour with a guy that's been on Parks and Wreck for three months. There's a lot of podcasts. Uh this one is is you've got great guests. We do comedy. You had Larry King on. We had the great Larry King. Now, when you had Larry King on, did you you asked or had there's some shocking subject matter I find that were you trying to shock Larry a little bit or Well, he Larry King said that uh he was uh very frightened of death and of course, you take a shot of him saying that and he looks like he's about a week away. You know, it's like a skeleton telling you he's afraid of death. Yeah. He's like, so u and he didn't he didn't believe in God. So I was trying to uh I know it's very stylish nowadays to now believe in God, you know, it's it's the thing to do, right? And especially in comedy, you know, and uh I I stay away from that sort of thing in comedy because I find comedy should be funny, right? Absolutely. go. Like imagine in the old days you go, "Hey, uh uh what do you think of uh of uh religion Lou Costello?" But death, death is something that is a big theme in your comedy though. Death itself. Death is Yes. Because this is You want me to tell you why, Tommy? Yes. because I did standup as you know uh uh in Ottawa and I was talking about stuff and Sammy Kisonson came you know to Canada and he wasn't famous or nothing and he took a liking to me and he he took me across the country and it was the greatest time I ever had and I was talking about you know I I had a good act and Sam said to me one time he goes you got good jokes man he goes but I notic you talk about dogs and [ __ ] and he's like, "Are you really interested in dogs?" And I had at the time about a 25minute bid on dogs. And I was like, "No, I don't give a [ __ ] about dogs, right?" And he said, "Well, why don't you just talk about what you're interested in?" Mhm. So, from then on, it became death, right? Death was the Do you Do you think you think about death more than your average person? I don't know what the average person thinks. I think uh you know it's always on their mind, you know what I mean? But I yeah, I will ruminate about it, you know, uh for long long periods, of course, to no uh to no uh purpose or to no avail, you know what I mean? It's worthless. But I got some material about about it and but anyways, I did it in my standup special and now that's gone so I can move on. Yeah, that's what I'm like. I I really I just think about stuff for standup and then I get caught on one subject for a long period of time and then once I've exhausted that subject, I'm I'm free now in my life not to think about death. Cool. Well, we'll talk more about I want to talk more about the podcast. We take our first commercial break here awesome of the show and we'll be taking calls on Skype. So, give us a call here on the internet using Skype and we'll be back with Nor McDonald. Stick around.

[Music]

They're selling them. Yeah. We're back with Nor McDonald and uh let's take a Skype call from one of our callers since we've asked people to call and they're calling. Uh you're on the air with Nor McDonald. Do you have a question? Go ahead, sir, with your question. Um, yeah. Hey, Norm. Hi. How are you? Tom, good. And you? Good. Good. Happy New Year. That was an easy question. Oh, yeah. Happy New Year's. Don't get nervous. I know you're on live television. You're a little nervous, but just go ahead and ask the question now that we've uh, you know, told you all we were going to do this in the break, and let's do it now. Okay. Okay. Cool. Yeah. Norm, what's your favorite sport to bet to bet on? To bet on? Um, my favorite sport to bet on is uh football. Uh, professional football, but it's the worst sport to bet on. And I'll What's your name? Jay. Jay, I'll tell you the reason that football is the hardest sport to predict because the ball ain't round. Sure. You You understand that concept, right? Like a basketball is round. It's shot. It goes into a hoop. A baseball is round. It hit, it goes somewhere. A football is not round and squ and when it's lost, it goes everywhere. And that's it's like a sling. And that's why don't bet professional football. Don't be like me. What? What? What about golf? You bet on golf. I do bet on golf because you can't get a rounder ball. Yeah. All right. Well, there's your answer, uh, caller. Thanks for calling. Appreciate it. Hey, thanks, Tom. Yeah. Go Pats. Yeah. Now you know. Now you know, right? So, uh, do you take calls on the show on your on your on your No, no, no. We tried, but you have it down to a science, but, uh, mine, uh, it was, it was like when you did your show at your house and so we do an hour show. We'd take, uh, one Skype caller, we'd be 58 minutes into the show. Yeah. Exactly. So, uh, it didn't work out. So, but you you seem to have finally figured it out. So, I wanted to ask you, so you've got all this time on the show now. It's not like television. You can go on for hours if you want. Uh, and you're somebody that's never really shied away from saying what you feel about things. And we're living in this crazed media culture now where people are always apologizing for every word that comes out of their mouth. Do you ever worry that that you might say something that you can't take back or that Well, you know, I did one thing because they'll jump on things as you know and take things out of context and so forth, you know, and uh so I was on the Larry King show. I don't know if you've done that yet. On his internet show. Yeah. Yeah. I did once. Yeah. That was I love Larry King. Yeah. So he asked me uh my views on science because he called me a Christian comedian which is like what the hell [ __ ] does that mean? You know it sounds like I'm playing I'm opening for Joel Ostein or some [ __ ] thing. And uh so that's the problem. You call a person a Christian now all of a sudden it's a bad you know it's like calling a person a [ __ ] or something. So, uh, anyways, I told him I said, uh, I don't I don't think that much of science. I said, uh, for instance, DNA. I don't know a [ __ ] PE anything about DNA. What am I? I'm just a nightclub comic. So he said, "If there was a guy that was going to jail or going to the death house and the evidence against him was DNA and I was in the jury, I'd vote him innocent because 15 years from now they could go, "Ah, we're wrong." Right? So I said that then in the [ __ ] somewhere in the I see an article Christian comedian Nor McDonald doesn't believe in science. Well, you know, it's sort of what happened, though, I guess, right? Yeah. O OJ was the one that really was the reason that DNA really became the big uh I don't know. I'll tell you something about OJ. Yeah. And how on Twitter you can get in tr not in trouble because who the [ __ ] cares what these retards say? But uh I'm saying on Twitter, I said yesterday I put a post up. I said u uh you know my heart goes out to OJ and his family uh for his uh health issues and God bless and people got very angry at me you know and like [ __ ] OJ you know and like there there's another virtue that's gone Tommy pity whatever happened to pity yeah do we have to hate everybody yeah people probably your fans especially were maybe surprised to hear it coming from you considering some of the things you used to say about OJ on Weekend Update. Well, yeah, because I was against OJ for committing double murder. Yeah, one of the great lines in the history. Yeah, but I am not against OJ for getting brain cancer. Yeah. No, right. No, it's perfectly I feel sorry for the man. My god. And that's true. He does have brain cancer. Is that true? Or I saw that on the cover of the Then I heard that that he may have made it up. Yeah. But but uh you know, of course, if a man has brain cancer and he's going to die in prison, how could you feel anything but but pity for him? That was one of the great lines in the history of Saturday Night Live. Your line when after OJ was found uh innocent, murder is now legal in the state of California. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. What now? What was there was quite a bit of a backlash to that that at the time, was there? Or I got fired. Yeah. You know, I found interesting. You know, I I you know, you look back at your career and you go, "What the [ __ ] did I do wrong?" I'm, you know, sitting here with Tom Green on a show owned by a basketball owner. No, you sometimes you go, "What did I do?" Yeah. You know, I hear you. Why can't I get one? I I ask myself that question all the time. Sure. You know, we do, you know, when you do outrageous comedy, uh, and you're trying to get a reaction and sometimes you push the envelope maybe further than when you get older, you think, "Oh, should I have said that? Should I have done that?" Do you do you actually think that type of thought? I I came out because I was like, "This is weird. I'm not getting jobs, you know." And I thought after um I got fired from uh Weekend Update, everyone supported me. Yeah. You know, everyone was very supportive of me. But then I thought afterwards like if if you were a network president, you go, "Hey, do I really want to hire that guy Norm who if uh all of a sudden I fire him, he [ __ ] ruins my life?" Uhhuh. You know, because uh I you know, Don Meer fired me and and lost his job and never worked again like a year later, right? Not had nothing to do with me. It sort of had become a personal thing in the press. At least it had the press. You know what? The press has a narrative. And the narrative in that story, I got fired from Saturday Night Live. Now, before I got fired, there was nobody [ __ ] saying how great I was. There was nobody in the press doing big articles on me. Well, I think Chvy Chase said that you were the best. This was after best weekend update anchor. Chvy Chase did say that, but this was after I got fired. Now, after I got fired, I got fired by a big fat network executive chomping on a big cigar, okay, in Los Angeles. And here I was, this guy at 12:00 doing five minutes of comedy, right? So, the press has to make a story. They love stories. So, he's the bad guy, he's the evil guy, right? So if you got a bad guy, you have an evil guy. You got to have a good guy. You got to have a great guy. So they made up that I was a great guy that I Well, and you and you also happen to be a great guy and it was unjust. That was entirely coincidental. Well, um, well, does does things like that do they surprise you when you know you come to America from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from Canada from 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I've talked to you about this before, in front of the president of the United States, at the White House Correspondents Dinner. Did you get nervous? I didn't get nervous about the president or any of that. What I got nervous about is before we went, and he's showing us all the [ __ ] [ __ ] and, uh, the podium where you stand is bulletproof. Okay. And there's men everywhere with guns and [ __ ] And, uh, it made me realize that the presidency, like if I was elected president, the first thing I'd say is, "I quit." Yeah. Or, uh, "I'm going to do all my speeches from here in this compound, underneath the earth, from now on."

So you feel the security kind of, "Some [ __ ] shoot me, right?" And these guys aren't shot by, uh, you know, anybody, you know. Listen, if you're willing to lay down your life, like it says in "Line of Fire," starring Renee Russo, you catch my drift. That's the only thing that I was afraid of. We have a clip from, uh, from this, from the president. Inspiring to see President Clinton up here on crutches making a speech. I mean, I thought that was just amazing, you know. Uh, I mean, it's been difficult for the president. You know, he can't jog now, and he needs help getting around, and he still, you know, he still, uh, occasionally suffers great pain. You know, on the upside, you got your medical marijuana. So, that's, uh, you know, "You must inhale, sir. It's the only way you're going to get better."

[Applause] [Music] I hope I have time to tell this quick story. How much time we got? We got a lot of time. So, uh, after you meet, you go in a big room, and the president comes in. Be 200 people in the room, right? And he's going through with his wife. Now, he looks like a big [ __ ] stoner, big, big red face, happy as hell. And you want to meet him. His wife, the most sour-looking [ __ ] you ever laid eyes on. So, anyways, he's walking. He's talking to every guy. And I'm like, "This is [ __ ] weird. I wonder what he's talking to everybody about. I wouldn't know how to do that. Talk to every single person as he moves." And so I was, at the time, I had a sandwich and a pickle and everything. So, he's walking by me, and Lori Joe, who's here, was with me, and, uh, walks by, and he shakes my hand. You're kind of in shock meeting someone that famous, you know. And, um, and, uh, he said to me, he said, "I see you're eating a pickle." And he moved on. And I was like, "That's the coolest [ __ ] I ever met." And then, late at night, I woke up like in the movies, in a cold sweat, and I was like, "That [ __ ] just asked me about a pickle." Yeah. That's basically what he does. He goes around, probably just says the first thing, sees something. Yeah. Yeah. So he'd see you, he'd go, "Nice shirt." You know, move on to the next guy.

Well, that's got to be a great feeling to be able to look at, uh, that piece of video and see the president of the United States, the most powerful man in the world, doubled over in laughter because of one of your jokes. Uh, I don't look, I don't look at it that much, but, you know, you can fake it. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, Dan Rather, uh, you can, uh, you can next week, you can have a clip of Dan Rather. Yeah. You do a joke about his, uh, smile. Oh, you saw. Yes. I said, "Here's Dan. There's Dan Rather with his frozen smile. He's enjoying the show." And then it cut to him, and he had a frozen smile. Did you watch the whole [ __ ] thing? Oh, yeah. I've watched it a few times. It's, you re, you research like a [ __ ] It's, that's widely considered to be the best, uh, White House Correspondents Dinner, uh, routine ever. Oh. On the internet. It is. Big, I think. So, yeah. Well, we put a lot of work into it. That's for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Is it fun just speaking to powerful people like that and taking the piss out of them a little bit? Yeah, I think so. You know, because you can, you can say whatever you want, you know, and sometimes they're doubling over in laughter. Uh, I tell you who never doubled over in laughter was that, uh, [ __ ] [ __ ] he, he married. Yeah. You know her? Yeah. Valerie Rodham. Uh-huh. So, you're not a fan, I, I take it, of, uh, the next president of the United States. I just go by personality. Sure. Okay. Unless the guy's going, "I'm going to bomb. I'm going to go to war." When I was young, uh, Reagan was around. I don't know if he's a good president or not, but he was funny as hell. I remember the funniest thing I heard Reagan say. He got shot, right? Attempted, uh, murder, tried to kill him, got out, I don't know what it was, three weeks later, he gets out, and he does a, a press conference at the very site where he was shot. And one man, one reporter asked, "Does it make you nervous at all that you're standing in the very spot that you were shot?" And Reagan goes, "Well, I don't do an impression of him, but he goes, Reagan goes, "Well, no, I'm not that nervous, but, uh, just to be safe, I, I, uh, I didn't wear a new shirt." That was the [ __ ] funniest joke I ever heard.

Do you think he would have prepared a line like that? I mean, that just sounds, uh, or was he just that funny? I think he was like a naturally funny guy, and one of those guys that was an Irish wit. You know, I grew up with, with Irish and Scottish people, and they had that wit, you know, that that quick, bleak, kind of gallows humor wit that he had. Well, Norm, I appreciate you coming on the show again today. Oh, it was fantastic, man. I hope you have me back. Absolutely. Now, your third season starts next week. Next week is the third season. And, uh, no, thank you very much. Always great to have you here supporting. Um, I'd love to go back in two months and do the 35th anniversary. Let's do it. Let's do it. Norm McDonald, everybody. Thanks, man. Glad to be here. Good night, everyone. See you next week with Dan Rather. Good night.

Nervous. How the hell could you be nervous? I mean, do you always get nervous? Uh, I get somewhat nervous about, uh, things sometimes. Sure. Like everybody, right? But I mean, you've done so much, it doesn't go away. Uh, it hasn't with me. I, I mean, I don't get, uh, um, God, now I'm stumbling. And it's all right, man. You know, I, I'll open like this. I think I have a weird memory of you that you probably wouldn't remember. I think I was in, I think I was in your hotel room. The, when you were watching, I showed up at your hotel room when you had just done your first Letterman with Caroline Rhea. Yeah. Yeah. And I, I think that I actually watched you not watch your first Letterman on television. Is that possible? I'm thinking I, well, I would know I would not watch it. That's for sure. Was like 1989? Is that about right? Yeah, I think I'm not probably about that. Yeah. That's funny, 'cause I, yeah, I know Caroline, and I remember you. Uh, and I remember Caroline. All my memories are so vague, right? What was weird, 'cause I, I barely knew Caroline, and we were sort of hanging around, you know, with this, this group of comics, and I had a car, and she goes, "Let's go to the hotel. My friend Norm just did Letterman tonight." So, we go over there, and I, that was the first time I ever met you, and I don't know how, how much you even played the States, 'cause it was, I didn't know any comedians from the States. That was my problem. Yeah. Right. And so, I go up to this room, I meet you, and you're about to go on Letterman, and, and I'm standing there with Caroline, and you are on your bed, face down, with your hands hiding your eyes, for the entire time. Does that sound like a real thing? No, that would be me. I can't, uh, well, you know how it is when you know, uh, how bad you are, and, you know what I mean? Did you, no, I mean, well, I know that's how we perceive ourselves. I don't know if it's really true. You did well, right? Well, we have, we can pro, we probably know more than another person. No, we don't. About ourselves. I don't know. No, but I mean, how can, like, are you not able to watch yourself now? No, it's pretty hard. Like, you know, because, um, um, I, I really like comedy. Like, I love comedy, like I guess all comedians do, or whatever, but, uh, um, it's always, uh, you always think you're better than when you see yourself. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. In the moment, it feels like you've, you've won, and then you watch it, and you're like, "Oh, why am I doing that with my eyebrow?" No, it's [ __ ] It's like when you hear your [ __ ] voice, and especially me, 'cause I don't think I sound weird, but then people come to me, go, "Hey, I can do an impression of you," and I [ __ ] guys, "[ __ ] sounds like a retard." He's like, "Fuck, man. Is that what I sound like?"

So, um, it's funny when you have a weird voice, 'cause, uh, a lot of times I don't give a [ __ ] why people laugh. I don't give a, you know, but I've always been very, like, material-dependent in my standup. I gotta work like a [ __ ] to get laughs. But, uh, people go like, "Oh, you can just talk with your weird voice." I'm like, "No, I can't. You just maybe you think that shit." But I remember when I do, like, 'cause when I first came to LA, and I do auditions, and then I would have the best material of the 10 guys. I would get the most laughs, but I would never get hired. Yeah. And then I realized why. It's 'cause they want the [ __ ] that can, uh, uh, get laughs without material. I can't do that. That's what you need for a sitcom, right? If you're, if you're writing, you know, have a sitcom going, and a guy has some good jokes, well, you can hire him as the writer. Yeah. You want the big [ __ ] guy, the charismatic guy. Yeah. With no material at all. That seems to have an emotional range. Exactly. Exactly.

When I did my first, uh, uh, comedy festival thing, that Montreal thing, what year was that? [ __ ] I don't know. Like '87. Yeah. I don't know dates, but it was around there. And, uh, how long had you been doing comedy at that point? Six months. Really? Yeah. But it was Canada, so we got a whole thing. In, in American years, that's four years. No, no, I'm saying because the Montreal Comedy Festival was in Canada. We had a quota to fill. You know, I would never have gotten on it if I was in the States. But, uh, so I got my five minutes just at wrote. That's the way I used to do comedy. I'd memorize every [ __ ] word. And so I had it all figured out and [ __ ] right? And so then I go there, I meet Sinbad, right? So I didn't know who Sinbad was. And he goes, "Uh," and he's completely relaxed. I'm all thinking about some sort of one-piece outfit. He did. His hair matched his shirt. Yeah. And, uh, they were both orange. Yeah. So then he said, uh, he was just so relaxed, and he said, "Uh, hey, let's go. I got to get some socks." So we go to this [ __ ] store, right? When we first go into the store, there's no one there. It's a small store, so there's no one there. The lady's in the back. So the lady takes a minute to come out. Yeah. And he's like, "Where's that lady?" You know, "Nobody here, you know." And I'm like, "Yeah." And so he comes out, he gets his [ __ ] socks. Nothing happens, right? So then that night at the gala, I do my carefully constructed material. Yeah. Sinbad comes out. He goes, "What the [ __ ] is going?" And then he doesn't swear. He goes, "What's going on with these stores with socks?" I'm like, "Holy shit." And then he's like, "You go in the store and, uh, they don't, there's no one there." And then people are agreeing with him. I'm like, "What?" It didn't make any, none of it made any sense except that he destroyed, and I didn't. Uh, that's when I realized that, uh, that I was missing a whole bunch of stuff, 'cause I guess at first you think you're good and stuff like that. No, you are good. But, and I think that the fact is really, if, if you were to look at it in another way, that if people are able to do an impersonation of you, that means you have a defined style, whereas like, I guarantee you there's not a lot of people that can do Sinbad. Though you did just do a pretty good one. I was trying to do it as unracist as possible, but, uh, but no, I think like, uh, I don't know that much stuff. But I know I think that with standups, a lot of people, um, uh, it's hard for a person that creates material is usually a kind of a sensitive, shy kind of person. At least in my experience that I've known. Well, yeah. In your experience with yourself. Oh, yeah. I, I was always crazy shy and stuff like that. Um, so, um, and also very self-conscious, looking like an idiot. So I couldn't go on stage and run around and dance. So when I see guys that can do it, like when I see John Cleese, like this brilliant mind, and then he can do, Yeah. That's amazing. And also, of course, Pryor, you know. Yeah. I'm, I'm the same. It's so weird, 'cause I'm the exact same way, and I have not, I don't think I've talked to anybody on this show that has that same thing where I am envious of a lot of comics that people would dismiss, you know, only because it's sort of like, well, how do they not feel like they're, afraid they're going to look like a dick? Like, like as soon as I've ever done anything physical, if I even think about it for a second, I'm like, "I'm an [ __ ]" And, and they don't laugh. I know. Yeah. Like, just recently I was on Fallon, and somehow did an impulsive, I saw you cook, it was very funny. Never done that. It just, it came out of nowhere. I didn't second-guess it, and it [ __ ] worked. But if I would have said, like, for the five minutes I was sitting there, like, "I'm going to do this Dane Cook thing." Maybe it's because you were embodying Dane Cook, right? In that, in, Yeah. That I actually had the confidence of D. Yeah. Right. Right. Maybe that's why. Right. Yeah. I agree. But yeah, I was always, uh, uh, astonished by, and I'm also like you. I'm envious of, uh, people that, 'cause I'm, you, I used to be frozen on stage where I, I still don't take the mic out of the stand. When you did, so you did comedy six months, and you were at the Montreal. What is it that the Canadian scene is so different? 'Cause I talked to Russell Peters recently, and there's this weird work ethic that if you're one of the guys up there, you're going to work, and you're going to work for one guy, but you're going to work. Yeah. It was a great place to start because, uh, first of all, there's no industry in Canada. There's no movies or television. Isn't there a little? And doesn't, if you stay, I think there might be now, but when I was doing it, there was none. Because it seems like horrible if you stay there long enough and you don't leave that you will be given a television show of some kind for a certain amount of time. It's awful. They're awful. You know, Canadian, everything about Canada sucks, really, well, in terms of entertainment. Yeah. Like all the entertainers leave, and most of them don't want to go. Most of them are mad because they, because they weren't recognized in Canada, you know, kind of the States. But, uh, um, but so we didn't, anyways, we didn't have movies or TV to do. Yeah. And so we just did standup, and we thought that's all there was, was just going, which was fun, like just being standups and going around the country doing standup. And then, uh, when I got to LA, I suddenly I was like, "Holy [ __ ] there was everybody's handsome." Like, I didn't, 'cause we weren't handsome. We're just, well, comics weren't supposed to be handsome. Louis C.K. once said that to me, like furious at some point, when I think when Jay Mohr first started doing comedy, like right when Jay Mohr showed up on the scene, it, and this is not meant to piss off Jay Mohr in any way. You know, Louis C.K. was aggravated 'cause he's like, "It wasn't for them. He's good-looking." I just want to do Letterman before I'm fat and bald. No, it is very true. Handsome. I used to really have problems with handsome people, uh, like, uh, friends, you know, would bother me so much. I watched "Friends," and then I saw, I said, "Fuck, these are the funniest super handsome people ever. I'll give that to them." You know what I mean? Who are your guys? It's probably harder if you're so [ __ ] handsome. Well, yeah, because people expect you to have your [ __ ] together. So, I think that's the hardest sell for handsome people. It's like, "My life is [ __ ] up." It's like, "Look at you. How is that possible, you [ __ ] Really? Is your life bad? You've got all your hair, asshole." Hard to be a sympathetic character when you're really attractive. Yes, it is. Yeah.

When you started out, though, who were your guys, like who were the guys you hung out with? Are they still around? Do you still keep in touch with them? Uh, in Canada, they're like, uh, um, the guys that were big, you know, most people, Canada's like, it's the same with every [ __ ] goddamn city I go to, everybody's like, "This is the [ __ ] best comedy city," and all that horseshit. And I remember I'd be on the road, wherever the [ __ ] you were, you know, maybe have been Dallas or something. Go, "Oh, man, these are the funniest guys ever. Wait till you," and there's, there was always the one mythic guy. Yeah. Yeah. Go, "[ __ ] Kenny. That guy, the funniest guy ever, but he's a heroin addict. Yeah. If he wakes up, he's hilarious." And then he would shamble in on Saturday night, say something about AIDS or something. You go, "What the [ __ ] He doesn't seem that funny." I guess he's funny if you know him. Oh, that's hilarious. The local hero that could never get out. Exactly. And then, like, you know, whenever they're past that prime of whatever made them popular in that small scene, then they finally go, "I think I'm going to do it. I'm going to go to LA." And these broken men, it's like, "No, he used to be the guy. He wasn't really the guy." I met Rodney Dangerfield 'cause I had. Do you remember the book? I think it was "The Last Laugh" or something about Lenny. Yeah. There was a secondary, I wish I remember his name. Joe something. There was a there was a character. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wait. [ __ ] Uh, Ancis. Joe. Joe Ancis. So I'm, you know, I read that book. It was like the Bible. The Lenny, the Lenny Bruce biography by Albert Goldman. Yeah. And so Ancis was the funny guy, right? That never went on stage. That's right. The brilliant funny guy. Right. And they all, you know, I, but, and I met him with Dangerfield. You did. Dangerfield came and did Saturday Night Live, and, uh, Joe Ancis was with him. I was like, "Fuck, Joe." And then I waited about two hours for him to say anything funny, and I was like, "I don't know, maybe he just [ __ ] got drugs for them or something." Or maybe it just took longer back then, you know, maybe it wasn't so about laugh efficiency is what. Yeah. And maybe also he was stuck in that time. Maybe Lenny Bruce, like if he were right here now, would not be very funny. But, but, you know, I think that book, I think Goldman probably exploited that because, like, in my mind, behind every genius, there's some dude going, "That [ __ ] stole my [ __ ]" Yes. You know, and usually there's a reason. Well, well, then why didn't you get on stage? It's like, "I don't do that." I shut up. And also the authors don't know [ __ ] Yeah. Yeah. Like, you know, every time they do a [ __ ] article, they come to you. I'm sure they've done articles on you, and then you, you try to tell them like, what's the real story, and they still [ __ ] write what they want, like what they had already seen it. They take it out of context. They frame it the way they want it. Have you had a lot of experience with that? A little bit. Like people, there was a time when I was on Saturday Night Live, everyone hated it, you know, when you were doing Update. Yeah. They hated Far, they hated Sandler and Farley. You mean critics? Critics. Yeah. So, uh, it was pretty, everybody was, "Oh, it's dead, it's dead," and all that [ __ ] and so, uh, they came, and the guy had an agenda, obviously. Um, but he was very unfair. Like, Sandler was very, very funny, and nobody's funny was funnier than Farley, and then he presented as if these guys were always doing schtick, and everyone was looking away, embarrassed, and everything like that. And I remember laughing. So, it was very frustrating. And they made Farley, I never forget, it was on the cover of New York Time, New York magazine, and they had Farley do a photo shoot where he had a television on his head. Yeah. And it was, it was kind of funny. But Farley's doing a big, like, crazy physical thing with this big TV on his head. And then they put it on the cover and they said, "Is Comedy Dead?" And how did he respond to that? He, he wanted to go beat up the guy, and Lorne told Lawrence. Oh, really? You can't, you can't beat up people. He can't beat up the, the, the reporter. Yeah. Yeah. But he was really that angry. He, yeah, he was so, he was more angry because they, they, not for him, but because they attacked Sandler, actually. He was very protective.

Well, that, that whole crew, you were, you were part of that crew that they seem tighter than most SNL crews. Like Farley, Sandler, Spade, you, like you guys seem like a real kind of, you know, Rat Pack of comedic. Well, we were pretty tight because we, except for Farley, we were all standups, so we kind of were, we didn't know how the [ __ ] to act or anything. And like, before us, was Chris there too, or no? Chris Rock. Oh, Rock was there too. Yeah. So, you're all sitting around going, "Well, I don't know how to do a character." Yeah. We didn't know anything. So, all we knew is how to directly talk into the camera, you know? I mean, that's the only good thing we were good at. And, uh, but, uh, the rest of it was, was, was real tough. And so, I wouldn't, you know, I would plead with people not to put me in sketches, you know, 'cause sometimes I would think of a good idea and write the sketch and knew I could do it. But, but, uh, I was so, but, but anyways, the point is, like, before us, there was this great cast, and even now, there's this great cast of actors, right, which probably should be what Saturday Night Live is, not standup. Yeah. As a matter of fact, I think all acting should probably preclude standups for the most part. But now, you know, this. So, they're, they know how to talk to each other like that. Me and Spade and [ __ ] with, we didn't, I just can't remember. I can't imagine the, the cynicism approaching a sketch that, exactly with you guys. No, that's what we'd mostly do is we'd spend the first half of the night writing the sketch and the second half of the night crumpling it up, saying, "I shouldn't," because this is another thing that I noticed coming from standup into, 'cause I was, um, never had any desire to be anything other than a standup. Everything else just accidentally happened from the standup, you know. But some, for some reason, in Hollywood, they go, "Oh, I guess because of Bill Cosby or Roseanne Barr or some people who've had success in standup, they go, well, he can, he can do anything. Let's build a show around him. He can do anything." Which is not an experiment. Give him some children. Throw him in a living room. Not an experiment that's worked. Well, was that part of Lorne's thing? Wasn't that the season where he's like, "Let's, you know, let's use standups." You know, it's sort of like that scene in "The Right Stuff" where he's like, you know, "I want test pilots," you know, "I want standup comedians," and, and, uh, did, what was the struggle like? How often did you deal with Lorne around that stuff? Well, the great thing about Lorne is he'd do you. He could do anything you wanted. He would tell you, uh, wise things, you know, like wisdom or whatever. He's like a little Buddha guy, right? Did it ever, did it ever make sense, or, you know, to me, you'd always walk away going, "What the [ __ ]?" To other people, it did. Like, I remember one time, he wanted me, like, this was actually, uh, with Weekend Update. They wanted me to do Weekend Update, um, with a lady. Yeah. Like a two of us. Mhm. And I was like, "That sounds like [ __ ] I don't want to [ __ ] that sounds like [ __ ]" Like, I'm like, "If there's a lady and a dude, like, what are we making fun of? Local news? What the [ __ ] is that?" He's like, "No, no, no." He's like, "Well, you'll be, he had some crazy, he goes, like, I think he liked me 'cause I didn't understand what he was talking about all." And he goes, like, "You'll be a Fred A. Stair and she'll be Ginger. You'll, like, you know, give her the sex comedy and she'll give you the sex." And I was like, "The dancers, what?" I didn't know what he was [ __ ] talking about. So, anyways, I go, "I don't want to [ __ ] do what the lady left rank can do." Yeah. So, uh, Franken was gonna do it. Yeah. It was, it was Franken and me or somebody else. So, uh, I didn't care that much about it. So, uh, because I could just do standup. But, anyways, what happened was, it was funny, like Steve Martin walked in 'cause he was hosting. Yeah. And Lorne, to embarrass me, let's see what Steve thinks about it. And Steve Martin doesn't give a [ __ ] about anything. So, uh, but he goes, "Norm wants to," he thinks, and he does this big long spiel, and Steve Martin's completely uninterested, dragged into something he wanted no part of. But luckily, he [ __ ] just said out of the blue, he goes, he goes, "Oh, fuck." He goes, "I did this award show with some broad, and they paired me up with her, and she [ __ ] everything up." Like, I guess they stuck him. So, so then Lorne goes, "Oh, there's some support from an unexpected place." And that's how you got that solo Update. Yeah. Steve Martin. Because he was such a hero to Lorne. You had a bad experience with an award show, and you get to run the solo on the Update. Yeah. It was awesome. That was a [ __ ] good moment. But I would have been in big trouble with a lady. But then later, he did, they did it with a lady and a dude, 'cause he kept saying, "Oh, remember, 'cause I know Saturday Night Live, you know, like all of us, right?" Yeah. And he was like, "Remember, remember Jane and Jane and did." And I was like, "That was [ __ ] Like, I remember Jane, you ignorant [ __ ]" Right? But I also remember all the rest of the [ __ ] [ __ ] like he had a hat on and pretend to be from the, like they played characters. Yeah. And I, I was not interested in that because Dennis kind of changed it to Dennis Miller, where where you do jokes, where you do jokes, and you don't, you're not doing a parody of a [ __ ] Now, what was the reaction to you when you first took up Update? 'Cause I remember, and it was, you definitely made it your own, because you're one of those guys, as you're sort of establishing here, that you can only do what you do. Yeah. I can't do. Well, I can't. Yeah. The big problem, I guess, with me with Update is I'm not politically aware of it at all. So I was like, well, I can't, uh, be political, right? You know, I can't, I don't know how to do it. But it was interesting, though, because you're updating, and the way you do comedy there, it rides that line of like, uh, you're, you're almost like the, the thing that makes it so cutting and shocking is it's so [ __ ] plainly said that this is what [ __ ] is. No, but it's a good thing that you're. Well, it was my plan. I mean, to cut through the [ __ ] Yeah. I thought, 'cause I don't like cleverness that much. Like, I always was, um, against, what's an example of that? Like, sexual innuendo rather than sexual, like, you know what I mean? I don't like my mother can giggle at some joke on "Will & Grace," and then I can say to her, "No, no, you know what that means, right? He's talking about [ __ ] [ __ ] the other guy in the ass," and then she's like, "Oh, no." I'm like, "It's the same [ __ ] thing. Why can't you just [ __ ] Why can't they just say he's going to [ __ ] him in the ass, and you get the same?" Isn't there something cowardly about like cloaking it or something? Like, I'm not, I don't know, psychological [ __ ] but it must be some level of, uh, dissociating yourself slightly from what you actually mean, from the truth. Like, like innuendo protects you from seeing the reality and enables you to laugh at it. Yeah. Yeah. But why need, good God, in these days, why would you need innuendo? Like, Yeah. No, to me, I'm shocked that anyone thinks you could be shocked by anything. Yeah. I, I find that now the only thing that's shocking is when someone tells the [ __ ] truth, and then people are like, "What just happened? That guy can't come back." Like, on Update, I was always saying, I think I always thought the perfect joke would be if the punchline and the, um, and the setup were almost identical. And then we, I was saying, "Can we ever get a joke like that?" That would be the coolest. And then we actually did get one joke that was pretty close to that. Not perfect, but it was, uh, Lyle Lovett is, um, Lyle Lovett and, uh, Julia Roberts are getting a divorce. And, uh, uh, you know, people close to the couple say the reason is because, uh, he's Lyle Lovett and she's Julia Roberts. So it was pretty close. You know, the setup and the punchline were pretty close to each other. I was happy with that. That was the grail. Yeah. That was the grail. I don't know if we completely got it. When that, that YouTube thing that was going around, I think it was, were you at a, where was that where you did the, the old jokes at the roast? Oh, yeah. That was a roast. Yeah. Yeah. What was the, what was your agenda behind that? Um, I mean, what were you thinking? 'Cause it, like, got very popular, and everyone thought it was so [ __ ] you know, it was like they put it like genius. It wasn't genius. No, no, no. It wasn't that it wasn't genius, but I just want to know why you did it. Well, the real reason it was 'cause it was a, a roast for Bob Saget, right? Who's a friend of mine, and I don't, I, I guess I don't like roasts. Yeah. Uh, but, um, um, I mean, I, I shouldn't say that. I guess I admire, I, I don't really admire, it's a certain style. It's a certain style. I've come to accept things. Yeah. But, but Saget said, "Can you come and roast me?" And Saget's like a really nice guy, and I said, "Fuck, I don't know, man." He goes, "Come on." I don't know why he kept pushing it. Yeah. So I'm like, it was the night before, and, and so this guy, Sandy Gallon, who is the producer of these roasts and stuff. Yeah. Or Joel Gallon. Yeah. I don't know. I, I don't know his name. I only did one, and that was all I could take. Yeah. It's tough. And so he said, "I said, I don't know how to do this stuff." He goes, "Just be shocking." And so luckily, when he said shocking, I thought, "Oh, well, if I do the opposite, you know, it's, I've heard people go, I got it." I go, "Well, what if the [ __ ] is to get?" Yeah. Like it's a grade three arithmetic. It's not a simp. It's not a. See, so your choice was just to be like, "I'm going to do these old beautiful jokes." Yes. Counteract all the [ __ ] of the roast. There were jokes that my dad had when I was a kid. My dad, uh, when I was starting comedy, he gave me a book. It was very touching. He gave me a book of, that he had of, uh, jokes you say to people at their retirement parties. Oh, really? To help me with my standup. So, it was very touching. It was close to like one of those "101 Jokes" kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah. So, so that's where I got the jokes, and a lot of them were like so antiquated, like they were like, there was one where I said to Gilbert Gottfried, like, "You remind me of a typewriter 'cause your head is under wood or your neck is under wood or something." It was just so silly, and they were all hilar, everyone was laughing their ass off. No, they weren't. Like, when you're standing up there, Yeah. First of all, you can't, you know how when you're on stage, you can't see the whole audience. You can just see those. Well, where did you do it? 'Cause when I did it, there must have been 2,000 [ __ ] people in this Hilton ballroom. It was horrendous. Yeah. It takes forever. Yeah. But because of the, you know, I could, all I could see was the angry eyes of Alan Thick at the table, just like being angry. It was kind of shocking to me because I was like, it, what, you know, what was weird about that is that people [ __ ] thought I was literally thought I was crazy afterwards. Like I was like, "I understand, uh, if you didn't like it. I might not even like it. I don't know if I would even like that kind of [ __ ] you know? I could go, that's self-indulgent [ __ ] But to, to actually [ __ ] think I'm like serious, you know?" Yeah. I mean, go like that. Well, they, people love to do that. I mean, did you watch the Charlie Sheen one? Yes. Yes. And I tell you what I, sorry. Well, what do you like? I mean, what, because like a lot of people are saying that that was just it. There's no line whatsoever, and that, you know, it is something other than just being funny, and that it's gotten, you know, kind of just brutal and and painful to watch, right? Well, yeah, like, 'cause, you know, when we get interviewed as comics, like people always go like, "Is there any line?" And we go, "No, but there's lines." Of course there's [ __ ] lines. You know, you're a human being. But I remember they were talking about William Shatner, roast. Already told me this, that William Shatner's [ __ ] wife had just drowned in a pool three months earlier, and they had to get all the comments together and go, "Look, no jokes about his wife drowning." And they were all like, "Ah, [ __ ] Yeah. What are we going to do now?" I know. I was like, "Would it even occur to you to [ __ ] do that joke?" The guy's still wearing a black ribbon, and his clothing is torn. I love Patrice on that, though. I, because I love Patrice. Yeah, he's great, and he did it. I never saw a guy that did the roast so good. He, because he didn't do all that. Well, I mean, that line is interesting because it's really a personal line. I mean, when you're a comic, you know, when you've crossed the line, I mean, I mean, that's really the line is like, what can you, what can you get away with? Well, I guess the line's up to you as to whether you want to. I, when I was on SNL, you start to read, uh, an Update, you start to read, um, newspaper articles, and forget that they're people, you know, right? And I had a, a hellish thing with this, uh, private citizen. I never did a joke again about a private citizen after that, but, uh, someone had, um, been hit on the Brooklyn Bridge. And the story was funny because their liver was over here, and then their spinal column was over here. It was all, yeah, spread across the bridge, right? What was the joke? The joke was, uh, "He's recuperating in the hospital and he's fine, you know." But it was so absurd because he'd been spread. Anyways, then I get a phone call. Then I go, "Oh, [ __ ] That was a real person's friend or father." Yeah. Just phoned me, and I'm like, "I don't know." You know, they, [ __ ] their [ __ ] husband got torn apart on the Brooklyn Bridge, and then they turn on the TV. I'm like, "Hey." Yeah. Hey, what's going on? They turn on the TV to get to get their mind off of things. I know. So, so you know, you, you understand after a while, and even with politicians, like, they're still human beings. Yeah. Barely. But yeah, they're, they're the worst kind of [ __ ] people in the world. All of them. Uh, the. Well, well, that's. Well, I agree. I'm glad to hear you say that because, uh, everybody thinks you're all leftist and everything. Well, I mean, you know, I, I definitely land on the lefty side of things on, you know, ideological terms, but I found that from doing political talk radio, just, you know, being, you know, carrying water for any of them, you just got to realize the quality of people you're dealing with. You're dealing with [ __ ] corporate [ __ ] who are operated by business interests. So, you know, really it's going to come down to, you know, however you view politics, the question is, do you give a [ __ ] about poor people? And, uh, and, and are we being taken advantage of, right? Now, if people want to frame that as, you know, "Obama's a communist and draining us of our livelihood," well, that's your particular delusion, and that's fine. I mean, but, but it, I just got disillusioned with all of it because they're, these are not quality people. I mean, I did a joke about, uh, Michelle Bachmann on, on "Real Time." Yeah. And I was getting flak from this, you know, you know, a very small portion of the right, you know, that they were like, "He's got, he's a misogynist." I'm like, "She's a [ __ ] pig. She's a [ __ ] politician. How do you, can you name me two politicians that command any respect whatsoever? Why do we respect these people? These people are car salesmen. They're idiots. They're, they're, they're more disingenuous than anybody as performers. And they basically figured out a way to bait and plate morons into, you know, voting against their, their self-interests. That's an amazing skill, but is it respectable? I don't know. Do you respect a guy that sells you, you know, horseshit in the guise of a health supplement?" I agree with you. I, I mean, I think politicians are more, are, are terrible. I, I have much, I mean, people, uh, attack evangelists, and, but at least evangelists offer something, right? Well, they, they, they offer the immediate relief of someone's, uh, you know, pain and aggravation with another line of [ __ ] But, but nonetheless, I mean, they're pretty evil, too. Well, I mean, you know, with politics, it's like, yeah, I, I, I don't like to get into it that much anymore. Yeah. Let's not get into this [ __ ] man. Okay, buddy. 'Cause it's getting, I can see people not laughing now. No, I mean, but, you know, laughter, but, you know, I, I know that you've gotten into a little bit of flak around it, but you're, flak around what? Around politics. Uh, what do you mean? Well, just that, you know, you've said things that people have reacted to, but you're, you're not like a political comment. I, I'm not political. I, I've said, I've only said things that on purpose to provoke people. Right. Once in a while. Once in a while. You like doing that, though. Once in a while. Yeah. Yeah. But, uh, I've never, uh, but I'm, but I, but I've never, um, because I don't know enough. And because, and because I don't respect, uh, political, uh, humor when it's nothing but gossip. Yeah. And mostly comics and people like us, you know, people who are obviously First Amendment warriors to a certain degree. We like living the way we want to live. So it's really just going to come down to to money. It's like, you know, how do I keep my money? I mean, that's the biggest political question that most righties ask themselves. It's like, "I'd like to keep as much as my money as possible." And if that's a, if that's in a minority opinion, how do we get this majority of poor people to get me to keep my money and believe that they're doing the right thing?" Yeah, it's a tough [ __ ] thing because if every, apparently, I read this, if all the money in the world was equally divided among everybody, everybody would be dead [ __ ] poor. Yeah. You know, there's like, there's these moments where, like, I, I don't talk about as much as I used to, but then there's like, there's moments where you're like, there's a moment that I could, I was on a [ __ ] radio show the other day, and this was an interesting thing because it's, it's about professionalism. You know, I don't, you know, I don't do political talk radio. You know, I've got my political views, and, uh, and, and they're fairly general. You know, I'm not trying to support, you know, any politician, but you, I have the, the way I think about things. But there are politicians that represent the opposite of the what I think. So, I'm on this talk show with a guy. It's a Fox affiliate, but, you know, I'm there to plug my comedy and talk about my podcast and be funny with this dude who's a talk show host. He's a radio professional. He runs an entertainment show for the most part, but he's been dying to talk to Rand Paul about the bridge situation 'cause I'm in Louisville, Kentucky. He's the [ __ ] senator. They got bridges falling down, and he's been trying to get this guy on the show, and the guy just, he calls in when I'm there, you know? So, like now I've got, like, if I was doing political talk radio, I mean, it would have been like, you know, "What the [ __ ] are you thinking? You know, you and your libertarian [ __ ] and how are we going to pay for this?" Like, I would have jumped in and done that. But there was this moment where it's like, I just done a segment with this radio professional. He was like, "God, it's great to talk to a guy who knows how to be on radio. We're having."

A good time. Hold on. The senator's on the phone. I got to sit there and go, "Oh, do I do this?" You know, would it be worth it to sabotage this for some lefty, uh, uh, you know, cred, you know, credibility? And then I realized, like, dude, you know, he's a radio guy. You're a comedian. You're having a good conversation. He's trying to talk to this guy about a local problem. Just shut the [ __ ] up and let him do his job. And then when you come back, you know, get back to what you were talking about. And I chose to do that. But I did walk out saying like, "You [ __ ] right? You had such an opportunity there."

You know, I was on Politically Incorrect a couple times. And, uh, [ __ ] man. You know, you have to have an opinion about every goddamn thing on that show. So, or you can just do a little homework and write some jokes. Yeah. But there were some I remember at the break, like Scott Carter going, "Enough with the jokes." But, uh, I'll never forget, like, [ __ ] but I'm very unlearned. And so before the show, uh, Scott came in. He was the, the producer. Yeah. He'd been on the show. Yeah. So, he said, "What do you think about China and Taiwan?" And seriously, I only know those words, you know? So, I was like, "I don't know anything. Like, can I have another subject?"

So anyways, then we get out because he goes, because Bill believes this. I mean, anyways, when we get out, the [ __ ] we're introducing the guy beside me, this guy, right? He wrote a book on China and Taiwan, right? So, [ __ ] Bill Maher. He starts with me. He goes, like, "What was it, China and Taiwan?" I go, "I don't know." [ __ ] "Ask this guy. What do I? I'm a nightclub comic. What?" Like that's what made me laugh at that show. Everyone's opinion's equal, right? You know, like a nightclub comic and an expert. Or and then another thing I find I always found funny about that show is the comedians try to be very serious, and then the serious guys are trying to get jokes. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like, yeah. It's not, it's not always our show. I do, I do like Bill, though. No, Bill's great at what he does. Like, he's he's a he started out straight-up joke dude, and he knows his [ __ ], you know, and it's, uh, it's pretty amazing.

You know what's funny about him? I don't know if I should say this or not, but I, he's probably aware of it. When he does his mon. Have you noticed when he does his monologue, he does Johnny Carson? No. Yeah. Oh, no. Definitely. He definitely models himself. I think, and I think he's, that's been his style for a long time. He definitely takes the posture, but I find it very funny, 'cause, you know, he's got the posture and the timing and everything. He's like, "And then she came in his face, you know, but crazy words coming." Carson would have loved to have done that. Yeah, he probably would have.

So when you grew up, I mean, what, what was the, what, what was the story in, in terms of, you say your dad gave you a joke book, but were you guys, you got along with your folks and everything? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. When I was very young, I was very, very, very shy and very afraid of everything. I mean, people say they're shy when they're kids, but I was like, it was a pathology. Aren't you still afraid of everything? I am. I mean, I try, I try to hide it and deal with it, but on a day-to-day basis, I, I, no, I'm not afraid of everything. I'm afraid of very few things. Like what? Uh, illness, death. Yeah.

How'd you get, how'd you get peace of mind out of the other [ __ ]? Well, when I was, um, when I was very, I, this is a weird thing that happened to me when I was young. Yeah. I don't know if this means anything. I remember it. But it was a moment I had that was, uh, it wasn't religious or epic or anything, but it, it transformed me to some degree. Is that I was always [ __ ] so afraid of everything. And if I went to a store, I'd have to walk around forever before I could even face a person in the store to buy a pack of gum. I don't know why the [ __ ] I was like this. Yeah. But anyways, when I was nine, um, there was a, we lived in rural Ontario and there was a blind friend of my dad's that I had to, he said, "Take him to the store." I was like, "What the [ __ ]? Like, I have to take this blind [ __ ] and I'm already shy and [ __ ]?" So, I'm taking him to the store and then the [ __ ] wants me to explain everything, describe everything to him. Yeah. So, I'm like, "There's some grass over here and now there's a lamp post." And this guy's all happy. "What about the lamp post?" I mean, it's just a lamp post. So, it goes on and on. But something happened to me during this, sounds bizarre, but something happened to me where I was actually, instead of always looking inward, which I think I'd always done before, that one time I was looking outward.

Anyways, uh, while I was talking to him, I suddenly had a sort of a hysteria. Like I was laughing. I started laughing and stuff and, um, I don't even know why I'm remembering this, but I started laughing about everything and everything seemed like, um, very, very funny to me. And then a couple weeks later, I saw a homeless guy and he was talking about, he was, he was talking, he started talking to me. Yeah. And he was talking to me about John D. Rockefeller. He's like, "I was at John D. Rockefeller's funeral." Yeah. And all this [ __ ] and I was laughing at him and [ __ ] and then he started laughing and I was like, "It's all [ __ ] crazy [ __ ]" Like something came to me. Yeah. Where I, I started. And, uh, so now I find everything funny except, like, [ __ ] real serious. Like, I'm no fear of going on stage or anything, but of death and [ __ ]. And so, uh, but the other thing I, but the problem with laughing is I, I will get, uh, it will build to a hysteria sometimes that I have to, uh, uh, crank a couple of benzos to, uh, prevent a panic attack, really. Yeah. I can get you laugh yourself into an anxiety attack. Absolutely. Yeah. I start laughing and then it gets out of control, like hysterical. It's, um, and I still have extreme sensitivity to, um, to things like I can, uh, not, not to normal, not to life things, but to, like, um, literature or art or something like that. I have incredible sensitivity. I kind of have to stay away from it. Like what's an example? Like a painting or a? Yeah, [ __ ] paintings. Like, I don't know anything about art. Nothing at all, really. But I have had [ __ ] experiences that have, uh, been so hard on me. Like one time I was in New York and I, somebody dragged me to a [ __ ] art museum, which I hate art. Yeah. And I was looking at this picture, this girl. And, uh, I was like falling in love with her. She was so [ __ ] beautiful, this [ __ ] girl in this [ __ ] picture. Yeah. And then a guide was telling me the [ __ ] thing was written, you know, drawn in the 16th century. Obviously, this lady was dead. Long dead. And here I am, [ __ ] in love with her. And so I'm like, "Ah, [ __ ] it." It was like so hard on me for so many days. So I try not to. It sounds crazy, right? But, but I can be very, uh. It sounds like that's a very good painting. It was an incredible painting, but like, I, you know, I, uh, it would make me cry. I didn't cry at my dad's funeral, though. Like, real life stuff seems so prosaic to me that it never really touches me.

So, you have a, a sensitivity towards? Well, I mean, that's what art's supposed to do on some level, I guess, for people that like me that can't access, uh, feelings or something. It gets me. Well, yeah. I mean, I get that with, uh, I can get that with television commercials sometimes if I'm not protecting myself. Oh, you mean like where they really can manipulate? Yeah. Well, you jerk me around, but like, I remember there was, I can be manipulated without and know I'm being manipulated. Yeah. Like some movies I'll just let it go. But like, you know, if my girlfriend's afraid, afraid of something or needs some help, I'm like, "I don't know what to." Is this, is this crazy? I mean, maybe you should call a friend. I can't. Maybe it's because we live in fantasy lives or something. I guess I remember a kid when I was in, uh, grade school. We read Old Yeller and the dog gets, then they got to put the dog down, right? That's a [ __ ]. Yeah. And this kid, Jeff, was just like, you know, sobbing uncontrollably as he read out loud, and they had to take him to the nurse 'cause he couldn't pull it together. Oh my god. I, so that's, they call it Stendhal syndrome. Is it? Oh, so there's a name for it? Well, there, there was apparently there was this guy, I guess, named Stendhal or something, some 16th-century guy, but he had an art museum that was so, I don't know if it's anecdotal, but, uh, he was at an art museum where people would come in and have nervous breakdowns from the, uh, beauty of the art. But that can go either way with you. It can be laughter or sadness. Yes, it's mostly laughter. The sadness doesn't throw me into anxiety. U, the laughter. What's the feeling though? Like, like at a joke or you're with friends or something and you just can't, you can't get it out of your head how funny it is, and then you, you get anxious 'cause you can't stop laughing. Okay, I guess it's that. Like, I laugh a lot. Like, uh, that's [ __ ] great as a comic. Yeah. I've never, I tell you, I've never trusted people that don't laugh. Like I've worked on shows and, you know, [ __ ] sitcoms and stuff like that where the [ __ ] doesn't laugh. He's the head writer. I'm like, "You're not laughing at nothing." And I don't know. It's all math to him. Yeah. It's math. It's like ha coup or some [ __ ]. And like the, but the best guys I've met are the guys that are able to laugh and [ __ ], you know.

So, what with the, uh, so when you grew up, what did your folks do? Uh, well, my dad, we were like real poor and stuff. Uh, but later my dad became like a teacher, so we had a little bit of money. We lived like on a rural, like with animals, farm. It was a dead farm. Yeah. It was my father's father's farm, but by this point, it had become dead. But it was interesting 'cause everyone was old where I lived, except me and my brothers. So I, I was with old men all the time. Yeah. But I liked them a lot. Yeah. I really liked them. Do you still like old people? Love them. I love super old people because, uh, it's like, it helps you with perspective. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Like there's a [ __ ] thing, there's a thing like I love country songs and [ __ ], but there's a this myth about the old guy that never forgot about the girl and he's drinking and [ __ ]. That's not true. Like when you meet old people, you know what I mean? You go, "Hey, you were heartbroken." They go, "What?" You know, they don't care. "I don't even remember her." Yeah. It's all like comedy to them. They go, "Yeah, there was [ __ ] this morning. Everything's good." Exactly. Right. They have incredible perspective. And then I was so, I was thinking, if I can only get that perspective instantly. Just pretend you're a [ __ ] old man and, and, uh, and, uh, forget it instantly. Well, it's so funny that so many young people dismiss old people as as burdens or, you know, no one dies in the house anymore. Everybody's put out to pasture somewhere. And, like, I have to fight sometimes when I see really old people. I, my immediate, I get this visceral kind of like, "Oh god, are they okay? Oh, that they might die. That they might die. Or that, like, you know, like I'm going to be that. Like, if I'm lucky, that I get to be the guy that might make it across the street. You know, that's a big payoff." And like, it [ __ ] throws my mortality in my head. I understand that. Yeah. I don't like what I mean, I'm not saying I like infirm people or being at deathbeds. No. Right. No, no, I know what you mean. But like, if you, like when you talk to old people that, uh, they've lived through things, they have a perspective and a wisdom from actually living life. Yeah. And, like, you don't learn a lot from an old agoraphobic. Where, like, I remember, uh, uh, what's his name? Rodney Dangerfield said a great thing to me that I, I mean, he was, he came to do a Saturday Night Live. Remind me to show you this picture I have of him. Of Rodney? Yeah. And I had never met Rodney. Yeah. So, I came to do Saturday. Well, there's two things that are very funny. One is, uh, when we were booking Rodney, like Lauren said, "Oh, Rodney's going to be in town. Put him on Update." He'd always do that. Yeah. We'd have to somehow force this person on Update. And we wouldn't know what to do. But you had respect for him. Oh, I loved Rodney. I loved Rodney. So, uh, so Jim Downey, who was a great writer and Harvard, a true intellectual and stuff, and he, um, so he's like, "How are we going to do Rodney?" And then so he had an idea where I would go, "Rodney, you know, um, you've been in the business now 50 years, and, uh, how's it going?" He goes, "I got no respect. No respect at all." "You do a couple jokes." I go, "I can't believe that. What about your, certainly your children have respect for you?" Go, "No respect." "Well, what about your bartender?" You know what I mean? And, uh, he'd say, "All right, my bartender guy said double." He brought out a guy looked like me. "I can't believe this. Your own bartender?" Yeah. So that was my, we pitched it to Rodney. Daddy pitched to Rodney over the phone, and Rodney goes, he goes, "What the [ __ ] are you talking about?" He goes, "Let me talk to Norm." You know. So then he gets on with me. He goes, "Who is this [ __ ] guy?" Goes, "Doesn't he know my whole thing is no respect? This [ __ ] [ __ ] sucker thinks I..." You know. So I, so then I told Dan, he said, "Yeah, like Rodney just thinks of a writer as a guy you paid five bucks to, right?" But anyways, Rodney came to the show and we had, we have dress rehearsal, then the show. So he's like, "Why do we have to [ __ ] do dress rehearsal?" He goes, "I, I can't do Ronnie." Uh, "Why can't, why do we have to do dress rehearsal, you know? I know my [ __ ] jokes. I just go." I go, "I don't know, Ronnie. Like, I don't, you just have to do." And he goes, "Ah, [ __ ]. It's shit." You know? He goes, he goes, "I'll tell you, kid." He goes, "It's all waiting, you know." He goes, "Fuck it." He goes, you know, he goes, "Movies are [ __ ]. You know, all you do is [ __ ] sit in a trailer and wait." He goes, "Fucking TV is shit." He goes, "It's all [ __ ], you know." He goes, he goes, "I always remember this." And he like looks me in the eye, right? He goes, "Stand up, man. Standup's the only thing." Yeah. Then there's like a two-minute pause. He goes, "Stand up's [ __ ] shit." So, I'm just alone in a room with him. So, I shake his hand. He's, it negated the entire world.

Oh, the funniest thing was Josh. Josh was with us. Yeah. Was an intern at Saturday Night Live. So, uh, I guess I have a bit of a cruelty sometimes in me. But Josh would tell always tell this joke to me and I get him to tell this joke to everybody because I thought it was funny. Yeah. And he'd say, "Uh, Josh, this is how he talks." He's right here, but he would go, "Uh, there's two gay guys and, um, and one of one of the gay guys goes to the other gay guy, 'I have a new game for you. Hide and seek. Um, I'll hide. You try to find me. And, and, and if you find me, you get to [ __ ] my ass. I'll be behind the couch.'" This [ __ ] joke and [ __ ]. So I make him tell everyone. Yeah. So I made. Do you remember I made you tell Rodney? Yeah. So it was the greatest moment. [ __ ] Rodney were stuck, stuck in this real narrow hallway. Rodney, you know, standing there all twitchy, moving around, kept rocking. "You got to hear this joke." And so then Josh stumbles through the joke. And at the end, Rodney looks at it. He goes, "I tell you, kid, I'm not much for jokes. I love again most for most of our jokes in the history I've ever." Well, yeah. I remember the weird thing about Rodney, like I, you, I never really met him, but I was. You didn't? How did you not meet him? Well, I mean, I, like, because I wasn't an established comic, you know, really. And, like, I worked the door at the store and he came on once. Uh, and I used to see him around a bit, but, like, what broke my heart was this weird, they did this roast of him, like, or a tribute at the Aspen Comedy Festival. Yeah. And there were, then the dudes that they got on it was like Paul Rodriguez, I think Saget was there, and there were like three or four other guys. And I had this weird moment where I realized that, you know, he was sort of a marginal character within his own generation of comics. He was so, you know, depressed and and miserable. Right. And, and like, I, I just had this moment where I realized, "Oh my god, he's like a lone wolf. Like, he's got, like, his peers aren't even, like, they couldn't get anyone else to fly in and show some [ __ ] love." A lot of that. Right. Right. Like the, the older guys, right? We're the dudes of his generation. Then he started to realize, you never see him on the roast or anything. That he must have been this this lone [ __ ] wolf out there just with his own misery. Yeah. And that thing Carl Leau said was, uh, that's the best thing I ever heard was, uh, you know, "I had Leo in here and Rodney, you know, took a liking to Kenison." You know, and Bo was Sam's best friend. And, uh, I remember Rodney used to call Kenison when this is before he was on medication because I think the last decade of his life, he was medicated and I think he had some peace. But, but apparently he, like Kenison had been up for two days and, you know, was doing the Kenison thing and like just sitting there. And, and Rodney walked in and said, "Oh, look at little Nero." Yeah. Rodney is [ __ ]. He just seen it all. Oh, he's just seen it all. I remember like, I'm always amazed that guy. It's not, I don't know if it's admirable or not, but, uh, 'cause I quit drugs when I was 10 or some [ __ ] thing. I got scared immediately. You know what I mean? This guy, what drug did you do that? I'm exaggerating, but when I was very, very young, I got very frightened very quickly. And, uh, but I'm always like, "Holy, with those old guys, I go, Jesus Christ." Yeah. Like, how many, you went through all those, uh, coke, where you think you're going to die and [ __ ] and you're still doing it? Like, it was always amazing with him. Yeah. He had a hell of a constitution to put himself through that. I remember Saget told me one time, [ __ ], remember when he had a, he had a heart attack and a brain [ __ ] aneurysm at the same time or something. He was in the hospital. Yeah. And he just left. You know, pulled the thing out, went to the comic club. So Saget said he walked in. This was two days earlier. He had been in this major operation. And he said, uh, he saw, he saw, um, Rodney with two, like, uh, hookers, you know, and Rodney was waiting for Ron Jeremy to show up. This is two days after the surgery. He said to him, he said, "Rodney, he goes, how, how are you doing?" And Rodney said to him, "How am I doing?" He goes, "I'm with, I'm with two [ __ ]. I'm waiting for a guy who can suck his own dick." The hell you doing? What a [ __ ] classic, man. I know, man. That guy, one of a [ __ ] kind. Like when I think of, like, 'cause everybody always, you know, asks you who the best comics are and everything, and of course your mind always goes to Pryor and and those guys, but, uh, you always forget about Rodney. Well, yeah. I remember when I was a kid, I was reading the, my favorite joke section of the Parade magazine. He used to come in the Sunday supplement, and he used to have his last page was just comedians' jokes. And I remember reading his, and I still remember, you know, some of those jokes. What was it like? The one that I never, for some reason, sticks out in my mind like, "I get no respect. I woke up this morning, you know, I got out of bed, I put my hand on the bathroom door, the knob fell off. I picked up, I put on the faucet, the faucet handle fell off. I got to tell you, I was afraid to go to the bathroom." You know what I mean? You know where it's going to go. But, but reading that stuff and realizing that people actually wrote, wrote those jokes. And like, for a guy like that, does he write them? Right. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think that like he probably, I think that he had, you know, people that give him jokes. I mean, what a, it's like, you know, when these guys get famous, then every joke is attributed like Groucho Marx. I'm sure [ __ ]. Yeah, that happens all the time, though. Did you have that feeling or Yogi Berra? Like, every [ __ ] thing everyone ever says, they just say it was Yogi Berra. Well, there used to be something that bothered me about this idea that even there's a blind side to even very intelligent people when they watch, you know, Stewart or Bill Maher or anybody on TV, Dennis Miller, they're like, you know, like, "It's amazing all his jokes. How does he write all these jokes?" It's like, he doesn't. Of course not. You know, and like, you, I, there was some part of me when the writer strike hit where I'm like, "I felt like now they're going to know, the cat's out of the bag. Who's going to write their own jokes now?" I don't know. That would be interesting to just have the guys write their own stuff. Well, I think a lot of them can, and I, and I don't begrudge anyone to have writers because I think when you get to a level like, I mean, you obviously, when you did Update, people wrote jokes for you. But, but if you're a guy that's got that, uh, defined a voice, I mean, it's a gift. And if people can actually write for you, then it's like a beautiful thing. It's pretty kind of easy to write for some. Like, I know in sitcoms, which I have no [ __ ], I don't even like them. I worked on. Well, you were on one. You had, did one three seasons, right? You had to run. What was it called again? The Norm Show. So, it went down with your name on it. Yeah, that's the bad thing. But, no, I didn't know anything. I didn't want to be in. I didn't know what the [ __ ] I was doing. Well, did you? I didn't. The only thing I said is, "Well, Seinfeld has a sitcom. I think I can act as good as Jerry Seinfeld." That's how you got it. He had the biggest sitcom in the world. Yeah. And I go, "Well, 'cause I never thought, you know, I mean, I can't act, but I, you know, I, I surrounded myself with actors and it was okay." But, uh, but man, when I started writing sitcoms, 'cause when you come from standup, Yeah. Where the [ __ ] joke has to be good. Yeah. I started writing. I wrote on Roseanne and I remember I'd look at the script, I go, "Holy [ __ ], it's gonna, the whole thing's gonna bomb. Everybody's gonna be booing." The jokes were so bad. Jokes were so [ __ ] because, you know, a standup is so [ __ ] hard to get a joke together, and they're going, "Nah, no, it'll work." And then of course it works 'cause they lather up the audience and they love those characters and they love the characters. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the, that's also the thing about people that can create a sitcom, they create characters and everything like that. Yeah. Then you can go on and write. It's very easy to write characters that are already. I think sitcoms are all about the relationships between the characters. People gravitate towards the emotional dynamic of an ensemble, and it's not, they got nothing to do with jokes. Like, you watch The Honeymooners. They got no jokes at all. No, you just love those. Couple of fab jokes. But other than that, you just want to see Art Carney and and Jack. Yeah. But I remember on my show, I go, "Can't we think up some [ __ ] situations?" Like, it's supposed to be a situation comedy, and the situation you're coming up with is, "I'm dating a girl." That's his [ __ ]. That's the funny situation because you know I said, I remember [ __ ] reading like, you could read a thing of The Honeymooners and [ __ ] be smiling. You go, "Ralph thinks he's a millionaire." You go, "[ __ ], this is going to be funny." But then it's like, uh, then it's like, uh, you know, on Friends, it's like, "Jennifer thinks she might have feelings for Matt." You know, that's what the [ __ ] is funny about them? Yeah.

So, uh, okay. So what happened to the sports show? Did that, that hit you pretty hard? No. No. I'm sorry. I, I tried to structure a question in a sensitive way. It didn't hit me hard at all. You didn't? No. What? Because I, I never expect success. I mean, you don't. No, never. No. Just. But, you know, but you can always go back to standup. And are you? Well, that's my, my luck. But you were out of that. Were you, did you stop for a while doing standup? No, I always did it. I mean, I did less of it, but I would always, I, you know, because especially when you're doing [ __ ] that you don't like, it's, it's good to go on the road and, uh, 'cause you have complete control of that thing. Yeah. And you can be funny. Yeah. You know, and it's all on your terms and, you know, you live or die by what, because it is a very odd experience to be saying to be being not funny in front of a crowd that is laughing hard at your [ __ ] not funny [ __ ]. You know that? Which is sitcom. You feel that? Holy [ __ ] man. And it's like you're in a [ __ ] nightmare. You're like, "What is going on here?" Like, "That didn't [ __ ] that wasn't funny." And they just wait till you stop talking. And then they laugh because they're participants, these [ __ ] audiences. Yeah. They're doing their part. They're doing their part, right? And, you know, that's what I loved about Saturday Night Live is they could [ __ ] things could bomb. Like, really, only Saturday Night Live and the early Letterman, uh, you could see people [ __ ] bomb. Oh, yeah. No laughs. And there's no other place on TV. Every other place. Every, every joke works. It's an amazing moment. Even when you watch old Dick Cavett shows, like, and that was a popular show, and you're watching, if you watch them now, the audience almost does nothing. You know, he'll get a joke off and he's like, nothing. You're like, "Oh my." Because people didn't have the same expectations that they do now. These [ __ ] people who run the who run TV made it like this. That, you know, there's something about you can be funny without there being a ridiculous moronic joke every [ __ ] 30 seconds. You know, people can can accept people just being people for a minute. Sure. There's that horrible thing. I wish talk shows would maybe you can do it or something, but the, uh, you know, Carson, you'd never see the audience. No, you never see the audience and you listen to people. The audiences. Oh, yeah. They're out touching the audience. I mean, that was the first thing that I noticed about Jay. And I've never done a show and I got no beef with him. I just don't watch the show. But all of a sudden, he's out there touching people and I'm like, "What's he doing? Is it, is this a zoo?" It's funny because Letterman and Leno do that, and really the guy who, Letterman doesn't touch him. Well, but I mean, they're there. They're like, he's, you know, that's a theater. It feels like a real thing. It is, but it's not completely separate like on late night, right? But, uh, where they're up in a little pen like on the old Conan show. Where's the audience? They're up there in the pen six feet up and they're just sitting back there in a box. And just talking about it now, I think probably the guy who changed it and did it the best was [ __ ] Arsenio. He was the real guy that could. I guarantee you that's the only time this is being said in this country right now. No, but he, you know, Leno is like so uncomfortable slapping people's hands. Yeah. You know what I mean? Uh, uh, this guy was the genius at doing the monologue that were, I don't even remember jokes. I think he just do topics. Yeah. He would just talk. He was not anything. He was not about saving a moment. Yeah. But the audience, I mean, the audience in that show was so, uh, into the, so part of the show, you know.

So now what happened with the sports show? Oh, I don't know. It was just, it was on Comedy Central and I, you know, I watched it. It was funny. And I'm not a sports guy. Yeah, it was all right. But you're funny. It was, that's nice, Mark. It was, it was because I think it was, I don't know. I don't really give a [ __ ]. But it was. You really don't give a [ __ ]? I don't give a [ __ ] about it too much. Okay. But the, the. It's funny because people think I should. Like when I got fired from, I still get asked about SNL. Thanks for not asking me about it. I don't know why. Now, I just brought it up. But when I got fired from SNL, people still ask me like, "Ah, [ __ ], don't you hate that guy?" I go, "Oh, [ __ ], what?" No, he didn't think I was funny. I get it. I understand. And also, there's so much politics involved in that [ __ ].

I got actually a weird question. And and I don't know if you can answer it for me, but I'm obsessed with it. And I and I discuss it with people that have been on SNL, but but you come into it specifically. There before you got fired, there was a point there where you were negotiating and you might not go back to the show. Correct? No. There wasn't ever a point where you were sort of like, you know, not deciding whether or not you were going to renew your contract. No. Me? No. No. Why? Well, no, because they brought me in, you know? I like, I met with Lauren. I did the whole, I jumped. Yeah. I jumped through all the hoops. Really? I was on, I was the, the. You were the guy, but what I, but like what I understood later, I just, I, I didn't get it obviously, and it went nowhere. You would have been good. You would have been good. Right. But I, like, someone came up to me, a [ __ ] writer who I don't remember his name, but he had written, he was like a, he was on the beat back then. I can't remember his name, but like after, you know, after I went through all that, you know, he came up to me and said, "Yeah, they were just trying to to pressure Norm." Oh, no, that's not true. Good. Because I told, uh, I told Lauren at one point I'd do it forever. I said, "What if I was like Walter Cronkite? I won't ask for much money. I'll just [ __ ] just, I'll do it till I'm 65." And he's like, "What?" Yeah. But, uh, no, that couldn't have been it. But it could have been. It was probably they were getting ready to, uh, to get rid of me because they always pretended it was Don Olmire, but I think it was, I don't think that's true. You just think it was in-house? I think it was everybody because, because, uh, it was a particular thing where we had a lot of autonomy on Update. Well, this was, and they tried to tie it to O.J. and everything else. Yeah, they did that. And what do you think? Well, so you just think it was a business decision? I think. Well, yeah. I think it was, um, that we had a lot of autonomy on Update, which didn't make the other people feel very happy. It was like the news division network. "Don't touch my news division." It was like that. And we had Jim Downey. It was me and Jim. And Jim was, was very, Lauren was a little like, uh, um, you know, rightfully respectful of of Jim and let Jim on his own. So anyways, um, I think the whole show was tired of me. Uh, not taking marching orders. Oh, really? I think so. Like, Lauren would, Lauren hints at things. Like he would go like, "I don't know if you really, 'cause I do Michael Jackson jokes or something. He goes, 'I don't really know if you want Michael Jackson to, you want a lawsuit by Michael Jackson.'" Oh, he's suggesting pass. And then I go, "That's cool. Like a [ __ ]. I'm just answering his question." I go, "That'd be [ __ ] cool. Michael Jackson suing me and I'm in court with him and [ __ ]." Like I would never get his stuff till later. And then I go, "Oh yeah, this." So, he would say, basically, in a slightly, uh, passive-aggressive way, "Maybe you shouldn't do that." He would. And I'm such a [ __ ] that passive aggression does not work on me. I need aggression. Well, it's that an innuendo thing you have a problem with. Can't you just say, "Don't do that"? I seriously, I, I keep missing it. Yeah. And I wish the guy would just go, "Don't do it." And then I wouldn't do it. You know what I mean? But he, he says he suggests things and I go, "Okay, [ __ ] it." That's hilarious.

So, are you working on something now? I mostly do standup. I mean, there's always like, uh, there's always like. You're not hosting the poker thing anymore? [ __ ] thing. Oh, the poker. No, I do. I don't know. Poker is illegal now. So, I'm not sure. It's illegal. It's, yeah, they shut down all the sites. So, so. So, how you doing with that thing? Oh, the gambling. Ah, [ __ ] man. Yeah, gambling is a, I don't know. You know, I kind of, like, I went broke like a few times when I actually had lots of money and gambling, three times. Gambling. With gambling. Yeah. And I mean broke, dead broke like, uh, and, um. So, would you call yourself a degenerate gambler? Well, I don't, degenerate as an epic negative connotation. Yeah. But certainly compulsive. Yeah. And, and but, um, I don't know what it was. Like, I'm not a psychiatrist, but I do know this. When I would go broke, 'cause they say gamblers want to lose and stuff, which always seemed odd to me, but I will say the three times that I went broke for a lot of money, I had a very freeing feeling. You know, I would go to the coffee shop and have a coffee and have nothing. And a lot, a lot of me is, um, trying to get the [ __ ] as aesthetic as I can in my life. Oh, really? So, it was a Zen thing. This is like a, you would recommend if you wrote a book on Zen, it would be like, "Go out, make a bunch of stupid bets, lose everything and enjoy." Yeah. That, yeah. Stand in the art of being a [ __ ]. The, uh, but I, I, I, not because it's, it bring would bring me peace of mind or anything, but because every, every, uh, my, when I, in a, I bought a house for the first time ever. Yeah. And it was like I was walling myself into a [ __ ] mausoleum or something. All of a sudden I'm like, "Fuck." Yeah. I'm like, "I don't want to be here. I don't want to, I don't want a bunch of stuff to have to [ __ ]." Mostly because I'm lazy, I guess. I don't want to have a [ __ ] footstool 'cause then I have to clean it up, right? I feel the same way. Well, it's exhausting because there's no end to. You, you become tethered to it and you worry about it. You got a house, it's like, "Who's going to fix that light? Do I got to call a guy? Do I got to hire a guy to call the guy?" And I'm sure you know, and I know guys 'cause we're not rich, but we know rich guys that have [ __ ] massive houses and and [ __ ]. And you go, "Fuck, it seems like a nightmare." Well, then you know what I realized? I just realized it two days ago. I can't. I got a two-bedroom house here. And if you notice when you went to pee, that second bedroom's just got a bed and my girlfriend's [ __ ] in it all over the floor. And, and, and the fact that there's nothing in there every day, it's like a curse. I walk by that room and I'm like, "I don't know what to do with that room." Like, and like I'm worried. Um, I think that my entire house, like I found a little termite damage that looked like 50 years old. I'm like, "Is there even wood underneath this stucco or is it just sort of like brittle?" I don't know what's. Anyways. Are you, do you rent? No, I own this [ __ ] this like place. I think if you rent, you can move. I think that's, of course, but I, you know, I bought. Yeah. I bought a house like I bought this thing. Everybody told me to buy right. I bought it. It was built in 1924. And you're like, "But that's nice." Is it? I don't know. Like the floor is not insulated. It's a [ __ ] oven in there when it's hot, and when it's cold, I feel like I'm living in a refrigerator. I just had a rat die under my house for three days. And, but that's the kind of person I am. Like, the rat's sitting under there dead. I know there's a dead thing under there, but I don't want to [ __ ] crawl under there and get this dead thing. So I'm like, "I'll ride it out. How long could it take for it to completely decompose? I can live in this shitty smell." And then, then eventually I call my gardener and I'm like, "Do you know a guy?" They say, "Oh, I'll do it." And I'm like, "Oh my god." You know, for 50 bucks he climbs under there. He pulls his [ __ ] rat out. And I'm like, "It takes 60." I, I don't like, I'm a, I'm a sport. Here's $10 more for taking 20 minutes to do something I'm too much of a [ __ ] to do. But, uh, but I, but what I realized two days ago was that if you're making $20 million a year, to pay a guy $100,000 to watch your cars is nothing. You know, to pay a guy $60,000 a year to cook every [ __ ] meal for you and spoon-feed it, which they'll do for $60,000, is meaningless. So I think it's really about that. It's like, but I don't have a mind that works like that. I want to be part of, I want to do it all myself. Yeah. I, I'll hire a Mexican guy to for going to my house. Sure, but I'll feel bad about it. I get some water, you know. But, but if you have enough money to to not give a [ __ ] and just pay people to wipe your ass for you, that you've earned it. I guess that's your big payoff. But for you, I don't know that you could live with that. No, I, I, that wouldn't be fun for me.

What was the biggest bet you ever made? Oh, God almighty. Um, I don't know. I, I, at one time, I mean, the most I lost in one night where, because three times I've lost everything that I've ever had. How do you do that? I mean, not not morally, but I mean, like, how, how do you physically do it? Well, yeah. I mean, like, you know, you, you, like, you make one more. What is the process of that? What's the evolution? It's funny because it's a, the only time I went to a psychiatrist, he said, like, I was like, because it was for gambling. I was like, "How the [ __ ] do I get out of this?" And he's like, "Oh, you gamble to avoid, uh, life, you know." And I'm like, "But my mind, my thing was, 'Well, isn't that why you do everything in life? Is to [ __ ] avoid it?'" You know what I mean? Like, it's too painful. Yeah. Why do you? So I said, uh, but, oh, it's painful to think about, but, um, 'cause because now it would be nice to have the money, but, um, you just lose it by, uh, by, it's just like any escape, I guess. 'Cause I was never a drug or alcohol guy, but like, when I watch a game and I have a bunch of money on it, then I can understand what's going on. Nothing's ambivalent or anything about it, you know. And there's, and there's stakes. There's stakes. You know exactly the rules. Yeah. You're completely involved and you're completely escape from your life. Yeah. Of the, of the real, the real, um, the real fear. You know, I'd rather fear losing money on a football game than, uh, ruminate all [ __ ] night about, uh, about my upcoming, uh, show, illness. Oh, that. Yeah. Not my show. No. My biggest problem is ruminating about death. If I could get over that somehow. And you do that regularly. I try to. I read [ __ ] books about it and [ __ ]. Have you read that Becker book, uh, Denial of Death? Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's my favorite book in the world. Oh, it is? Yeah. I have both. I have all his books. I'm getting his newsletter. And he's dead. He's dead. The Becker Foundation. It's helped me a little bit. Yeah. Well, well, that, uh, the whole idea of that is the, the transference that, you know, you, to feel part of something bigger than yourself, to define your life, and you can do with that what you want. I mean, it's better if it's God than gambling. I think in some way, God is the best. Yeah. I mean, I, I.

I, that's what I'm trying to get to is God. Well, let's get, let's, let's get, let's get to God peace meal. So, like, you still haven't walked me through losing everything.

Well, um, how you do it because, like, I mean, because like, you know, you've got a house, you, you had a lot of money saved up and and and and then like, so you make one bet and then you realize you're, you're about to lose everything. Do you make phone calls to people saying like, I just need a little more?

I mean, well, you know, you kind of at the end of it, you know, uh, it's happening. It's, I guess it's like, I, I've never had substance abuse problems, but I guess it's like people that, um, know they're going to hit bottom, you know, and kind of want it. Yeah. Because it does get, it gets exhausting. Yeah. To be obsessed with something, right? So, um, you are, I guess, um, trying to do it, trying to finish it off, right? Finally, cuz if you, if you have 450,000 in the bank or whatever the [ __ ] it was, and then you lose 400,000, you go, "Fuck it. I don't want to [ __ ] have 50,000, right? To remind me that I don't want money to remind me that I have more money." So, that's how you do it. So, that's how you do it. Yeah.

And you did that three times? Three times in my life. Yeah. And and how long have you been off it? Um, I've been off it like probably five years or so. Yeah. And you're trying to get some spirituality in your life?

I'm trying to because all I, uh, the only real joy I get, uh, other than I love watching comedy, but, uh, anything deeper than that is I read a lot of literature and stuff. I'm not, I'm not educated, like I never had any schooling. Uh-huh. And I don't read non-fiction much, but I read lots of literature and, um, like who? Uh, TTO Faulner. But the, um, faith keeps coming up. I'm like, these [ __ ] are smart. I mean, you know, like I was always like, you know, uh, Prior is this [ __ ] most deep, profound guy I ever [ __ ] heard, you know, from my limited perspective. Then all of a sudden I'm reading books. I'm like, "Holy [ __ ] this guy knows everything." Like I was reading Toll Story. I was like, "Fuck, one word, one sentence, this guy." And so, but then I was like, "Why are all these guys, uh, it all comes down to faith?" You know, it seems to every [ __ ] great novel I read, it seems like faith is the, the only, um, um, salvation. Yeah. So, but I don't know how to get it. Yeah. Yeah. Like I don't know how to just suddenly believe, surrender. Yeah. I don't know how to do that. I'm not, I'm too, I don't know. I'm too, uh, stupid or proud or pretend I'm smart or whatever, or afraid. Probably afraid. Yeah. To, it's, yeah. To surrender. It's hard. It's, it's like this equation that your brain has to do where you realize that you have very little control over anything. That, that moment where you realize like, you know, just about all of it is out of my control. Yeah. And there's only two things you can do in that moment, which is either I'm [ __ ] or it's okay. And and how you support it's okay is with some kind of faith, I guess. Yeah.

I, I, I because I've come to it a long time ago that I have no control over anything, but I, I, I've been struggling with faith. I'll just throw myself into, um, religion sometimes. But the problems with that is, uh, then you get into churches and stuff and then you get into men and stuff like that. You know what I mean? And and then you go, "Oh, it's, it's very easy to fall into the trap of going like, religion's bad." I mean, I mean, God's bad because this [ __ ] priest [ __ ] a kid, which is [ __ ] You know what I mean? Why does that make God bad? Doesn't make any [ __ ] sense. Just means the people that represent him though questionable. So, um, you know, so then if you go to any church, obviously, it's led by fallible men, and you can't believe in them. So you got to kind of come, you know, come to it yourself somehow. But I really, I don't have the answer of how you do that or anything.

Where are you at with it now? I don't know. I, the only thing I've ever explored is is Christianity. I, you know, and that kind of I liked it. Yeah. But it's just extremely hard to, to keep believing. It's really [ __ ] hard. Yeah. You know, because, uh, it's the hardest thing to believe and I think I'm not deep enough. I don't know if that's true.

I, I, I think that, you know, ju just by nature of the fact that you're a comedian and that part of the way you understand things is by cutting through [ __ ] you know, with jokes. I mean, especially you, I mean, you cut through [ __ ] I mean, you know, you call [ __ ] on just about anything, you know, very concisely and in a very funny way that when you're sitting here trying to sort of like, you stay, uh, in in a place of faith into the, you know, the, you know, the sort of the Jesus and the, you know, and whatever you're choosing to hang that faith on, there's going to be part of you that thinks like, that's just [ __ ] There is. Yeah. Especially when it's specific like that. But then I don't want to be a [ __ ] idiot that goes like, you know, sometimes you meet people, they're like, "I'm spiritual." You're like, "What?" They're like, "I have my own thing." Like, you, why you work at Burger King? You figured out a [ __ ] whole thing by yourself. Yeah. Well, they've got their own thing that enables them to work at Burger King without hanging themselves. That's a pretty powerful guy. I don't want to, I'm not going to certainly if I'm not going to accept Christianity, I'm not going to accept some [ __ ] 17-year-old girl's [ __ ] idea. Well, maybe you should just get a job at Burger King. [Music] Maybe the humility of that will will shed a little light. It's like because it's exactly the same feeling I think you probably had when, uh, when you had to deal with the blind guy that, you know, there's something, you know, outside of you. There's, there's bigger struggles that are had by many people, and they, they seem to survive. I've actually thought about working with blind people because it, because I look back on that time and it really, it was the first time you really look outside yourself. It's pretty incredible the things that you observe, even as a, a writer or anything. I think it would be incredibly important.

Well, I think that's important for like a spiritual thing too, is to not think about yourself first. Yeah. I think most spiritual people, you're exactly right, and but I think a lot of people go, "That's the way to find it is to look inside yourself." But I think you're right. I think it's not. It's to look outside. It's, it's to try to get past your ego. Yeah. To to get that thing hammered down to, to almost nothing, to where you, you actually think about the better of somebody else over yourself. Yeah. And that's holy [ __ ] I would never be able to do that. Right.

Well, that's very contrary to like, there's this other whole movement now, the positive thinking people. All you got to do is throw that switch, man. Everything's okay. Hey, don't be negative. I [ __ ] can't deal with that [ __ ] But you can see in acting or in comedy that that works. I know. Like the person that goes, "Hey man, I'm cool. Everything's going to be good." Then it is. Yeah. Yeah. That's like, it's it's horrendous. But is it really? I mean, just because you're denying your flaws and, you know, everything else. I mean, you can sort of fake it till you make it or there's a lot of slogans, act as if, whatever it is, but, but still, it's like, you know, they say that eventually this will just kick in in earnest. Yeah. Until one day you're like, "It's not kicking in and this is [ __ ] up and you guys misled me and [ __ ] all of you. The truth is it's dark and horrible and we die alone. [ __ ] you guys." The, yeah. The, the, what is it called? If, what act as if, act as if, I, I guess I understand what that would mean. Yeah. Sure. But act as, yeah. But all these books and all these things, you know, the bowel cancer hasn't read the book. You know what I mean? They don't read anything. [ __ ] cancers. Yeah.

I, I whenever someone, like people start talking about organs, I [ __ ] check out. I mean, I can handle a lot of dark [ __ ] You know, I can fulfill my head with stuff, but when people start saying like, "I had kidney failure." I'm like, "Oh god." Oh, no. Nothing. That's why those [ __ ] the scariest movies, all those to me were the like the Croninberg movies, was always the inside. Yeah. I was, I was thinking about The Fly recently. I like where that moment where it's like, where he's climbing up the wall and he's like, "Pretty weird, huh?" You're like, "Oh god," and then when he breaks apart and there's a giant fly inside of him.

Can we turn this around somehow to end this thing? It's like my act. When I do my act, I never think of a [ __ ] ending trickle. Just [ __ ] Me, too. Just unravel. I guess this is, uh, we good. You're done. Terrible. You guys feel okay with the, what happened here? Every week I go, "Why didn't I think of something?" Do you do that thing where you look, it's like, "Okay, done an hour and 15," and I don't know that, you know, how it's structured really matters. I'm done. That's what I'm like. And then I know people are kind of silent, like, "Where's the matter with him?" Well, I'm glad you're doing okay, man. I really. Oh, yeah. Well, I'm glad you are, man. This is awesome. This is so, sorry it's so hot. It's so cool. It is hot. But it's cool. You got this thing, uh, that's your own and you don't have to, um, listen to, uh, Yeah. No one can really tell me what to do except Bad Mark. I talked to Bob Costas, you know, and he does Ba You're not a sports fan, but I like him. He's all right. He's great, but he does baseball. These [ __ ] baseball guys know everything. And it was after I got fired and [ __ ] And he said, "Ah, fuck." He goes, "I know how it is." He goes, "I got people in my ear, these producers telling me." I'm like, "You do?" Like he calls baseball games. Even he's got [ __ ] guys like they say this, you know? Really? Yeah. He says people are saying his ears and he's like, "It's always nonsense [ __ ] you know?" Yeah. So, it's nice that you have a place where a guy doesn't go, "Hey, uh, yeah, ask him this." No, it's, it's, I'm very grateful that it's working out and I love doing it. But I do have a guy within me that says like, "The other food's going to drop, dude. [ __ ] off. But the thing, but something is going to happen." Thanks. That's the bad part.

Let's leave it there. Okay. Love you, buddy. Love you too, man. Oh my god, what a great conversation. Completely surprised. You guys, Norm McDonald, sweet, thoughtful, reflective. I, I had no idea. I, I loved that conversation. I really did. Oh, man. That was fun. Great guy. Anyways, that's our show. I am Mark Merin. Why am I doing that now? I already do that at the beginning. Hey, look, go to wtfpod.com. Please get on the mailing list. If you want to kick in a donation, we got, uh, shirts. You know, if you do the $10 a month thing, you get a shirt, you get some stickers, you get my, uh, unconditional love. If you do the 250, you know, one time donation, you'll get three CDs, a couple of shirts, some stickers, my, you know, double unconditional love. But you can also just go to wtfpod.com. We got new videos. You got links to the YouTube page that we got now. You can see the entire episode catalog. You can get the app. Yeah, this is the Adam Corolla Show. Adam's guest today, Norm McDonald. And now, a guy who doesn't drive, being interviewed by a guy who just spent 4.4 million on a Porsche. Adam Corolla. Yeah, get it on. Got to get it on. No choice but to get on. Mandate. Get it on. Porsche. By the way, I've been corrected by snobs in the past. Norm McDonald. Yeah, good to see you, my friend. You, too, Ali. How the [ __ ] do you get 4 million? Where's that? How the [ __ ] do you get that? You got to blow a lot of dudes. Um, no. Here's how you get it. Um, you sell a whole bunch of your other cars that you bought over the course of the last decade so that you can raise the money for the one car. So it's like, sell five or six cars to raise some of the money for the one car. So, is this like, you love this car? Um, I did a documentary about Paul Newman racing, and this is the car he drove at L.A.M.A. So, which is a big deal. Did you meet Paul Newman? No. Oh, [ __ ] Yeah. Sad, right? He invited me to, um, cuz I was on, uh, Who Wants to Be a Millionaire? Who Wants to Be a Millionaire? And that was my charity, right? And so I won a half a million dollars and the Wall Gang, but I didn't tell them. So they just got a check for 500 grand. 500 grand. Should have got a million. So then, yeah, I want to get into that. So then, uh, they keep sending me [ __ ] They want more money. Like they think, "Oh, it's like an alumni association. They think I'm a guy with a half a million dollars every [ __ ] year." So, u, I'm like, "No, I don't have a half a million." Yeah. This Norm McDonald, he must be some sort of shipping magnet or something. I've never heard of him, but he evidently has very deep pockets and loves homeless children, so we should just keep hitting him up for money. That's exactly. He was going to meet me. So, he's my hero, kind of. I love. Newman's your hero? Well, I love all his movies, and I love how he's conducted his life. Oh, boy. Do I have a documentary for you. Really? Yeah. The one you made? Yeah. It's all about his racing life. Oh, that's awesome. Because, yeah, he, I love that. I don't know how old he was, but he was 40 or something, you know, he was when he started racing, and he became, became one of the best four champions. Amazing. I got two of his championship cars 100 feet from here. And he's a, by all, uh, evidence, he was monogamous with Joan Woodward. You know, he wasn't a player when he was the most handsome guy ever. You know, you know what's weird? I just thought about Norm. I think you might appreciate this conceptually. We appreciate two dudes. We appreciate the guy who's been faithful to his wife of 47 years and never looked the other way with all the trappings of Hollywood. And we then thus also worship at the altar of the guy who [ __ ] everything that wasn't nailed down. That guy was serious coxman. I mean, boy, he [ __ ] everyone. We don't. But when someone goes, "He [ __ ] like eight chicks over the course of 40 years." We go, "I don't know about him." Well, you know, it's like a guy, we like it's feast or famine in the, in the [ __ ] department. One chick or 180. If a guy gets divorced twice, he's kind of a loser. But if he gets divorced nine times, he's a character, you know. Oh, ladies, man. Yeah. Hide the, hide the daughters when he comes into town. I met Mickey Rooney. Mhm. So, you know, he had, he had was the biggest star in the world and he was married. Norm's eating, by the way, if anyone wants to know what's going on. So, he was married to, I don't know, but it was like Ava Gardner, like seven beautiful, big, the biggest women in, most beautiful women in Hollywood. So, in his head, he still thought he could get these women, you know, he. Well, it works on chicks. It doesn't work on dudes. Oh, what, what I'm saying is like, be Arthur or something. Yeah. Like, if I, if I found out that Lorenzo Lamas Jr. was banging Bea Arthur 10 years ago, I wouldn't go, "Well, [ __ ] give me a piece of that shit." I'd go, "He's got a mental condition." But women, when they find out that Sophia Loren is sucking off this fat producer, then they go, "Oh, must be good enough for me." You see how it works? Well, did Sophia Loren suck off a producer? Oh, yeah. Is that true? How do you think we know her name? And Lord God, I don't, I don't know for sure. Well, you're allowed on this show to just slam, say what we. Well, no, I'm not. Look, she's a dear friend. She's always a dear friend. No, I don't know her background. All I can say for sure is this, that it works this way with women. If there's one dude who beds a Kardashian and a Paris Hilton, he'll then get to and a Lindsay Lohan, he'll get to mow through other Hollywood hot chicks. Like David Spade is that guy. Yeah, David Spade is that guy. And I would say he's the, he's more cuz, uh, Warren Beatty was always the gold standard, but Spade doesn't have the looks of Warren Beatty. He's the all-shucks rapist. Rapist. Well, I don't know why you brought up rapist. My lord. No, what I'm saying is is Spade has quietly mowed through the entire bevy of blondes in this town, but he does it in a sort of unassuming way. Yeah, Spade is an interesting character because he's, he's outside of Hollywood, he makes fun of it, and yet he's deeply inside of Hollywood. Balls deep a lot, many would argue. No, you know, he'll, he'll be on red carpets, and I went out with him one time. He's like, "Let's go to a bar." We go to a [ __ ] bar, and then, you know, people let us in, which is horrible, you know, like the past everybody, right? Let those guys in. Yeah. There go Spade and his bodyguards. This haggard bodyguard. Haggard. Right. So, um, I've never seen a picture of George Harrison not haggard. He's, he's somewhere be, he's behaggard. He's like belleaguered and haggard. Like he's haggard with a belleaguered. Yeah. How about the fact that George Harrison, hold on, we got to get back to this. How about the fact that he just got done beating cancer and a mad person broke into his estate and stabbed him repeatedly? I forgot about that. Jesus Christ, that's bad luck. And anyone think that maybe hanging with the Dalai Lama isn't what it's cracked up to be like in terms of karma? How do you get into those? Like, remember that guy was going to jump over, um, and to rape Steven Spielberg and right duct tape his mouth. I don't know why you're so fixated on rape, but continue. That's what I'm saying. I'm just playing. No, it seems easier. It's that kind of thing where it's like, what happened? Well, George Clooney was in Toronto shooting for three weeks and a woman moved into his house. It's like, it seems a little casual considering there's walls and security cameras and alarm systems. But you see, a Letterman would come home and there'd be a lady, yeah, that thought he was his wife waiting in bed. Yeah. And he only [ __ ] her twice. Oh, my lord. I have a stalker. Get this. My stalker. Oh, you have a stalker? Well, hold on a second. Hold on. 68-year-old lady. I want to plug and I want to get back. Eat an almond. Eat an almond. Uh, Based on a True Story, a memoir. It's Norm's book. It's available now on Amazon. You can bookmark it at amcroll.com and put a little wind in the sales of the pirate ship. An IC nominated for Pulitzer Prize. Is that for this book? For the book. Wow. Good on you, man. Yeah, man. God bless you. A good book. The book was really good. It was interesting. Have you read it? Yeah. And I don't even know how to read. That's great. It, I, I went home last night and I read it because, and it started off with a very interesting statement, which is, "This is based on true events." But if you really try to dissect what a true event is, it's only as you remember it anyway. And if you hang around with Kimmel long enough and you did enough episodes of The Man Show and you drank enough beer, he'll have a different version of almost every story that I'm locked off on. And vice versa. You're in the story and you know it's false. But the other guy, he goes, "You caught a big fish." You go, "I've never fished in my life." You caught a, he's convinced you caught a [ __ ] big fish in his stupid head. So, the story is is whimsical, but there's many parts of it that are based in truth growing up, uh, where you did in Canada on a farm and things like that, but very funny, a very good read. So, and, uh, nominated for Pulitzer Prize. So, how bad can it be? All right. So, you and David Spade, that you like it, are walking into a bar. Okay. Mhm. Oh, I was saying that. So, yeah. So, we go into the bar. So, it's packed with people, you know, and I don't like a lot of people around. And then you get a little [ __ ] plastic drink and you drink, and then Spade goes, "Let's get out of here." And I'm like, "What?" And I don't even want to be there. And, you know, you're an inch from somebody's face. And so, then we go to another bar. He does the exact same thing, right? "Let's get out of here." So, he just goes places and exits. But, I think there's a power, I think there's a certain power in leaving. Yeah, I guess there is. Yeah. But with women, he, you know, he's, he plays the long game. Like he's always texting them, you know, he doesn't bed them the night he meets them, like a year later, right? But he's got so many on his [ __ ] them in the bathroom. Yeah. But not on a bed. Never on a bed. Wait, no. I hear what you're saying. I'm reading between the lines. I can't talk about D now. It's going to be saying that about. No, no. What he does is he quietly, like, here's what I'm saying. Yeah. Here's what I'm saying. If you had a list of the famous coxmen of the town with the Warren Beatty's of the world and the Wilt Chamberlains and stuff like that, somewhere in the 13th spot would be David Spade. And everyone would go, "How do you get on this list?" A cute little blind guy. I would put him way farther up than that. Way farther up. I'd put him maybe number one. Well, that's what I'm saying. So, in terms of sheer numbers, quietly goes about his business. Yes, he does. And, uh, until we start talking about, yeah, I know. We shouldn't. But, yeah, he's very like self-deprecating about it. But he also, you know, he knows everything that a young girl knows, like that a beautiful 20-year-old. He can talk to them about, yeah, Keeping Up With the Kardashians and, uh, right, you know, whatever, whatever the hell. And then, you know, if I tried to talk to a young girl, I go, "You ever watch Matt Lauer?" You know, it wouldn't work. But he, he has the same exact interest. Yeah. That they do. So, it really works, you know. Yeah. My problem is I'm too technical. I like cars and building. Oh, yeah. So, it's always trouble. Like, it's always. Well, Newman's, uh, he ran in the Trans Am series, but it was really a two 300 ZX with a turbo and a V6 on it. So, it wasn't, yes, it was the Trans Am series, but it was not a Pontiac Trans Am. And I can see her stabbing herself. No, she's attempting to kill herself by falling on her mascara pen. Oh, god. Stabbing yourself is a certain type of suicide. Yeah, it is. I know a person that did it. And, uh, Charles Rocket did it. Well, well, hold on a second. We talk about Lang. Oh, I forgot about Art Lang. Yeah. No, a friend of mine when I started in Canada, he killed himself much like Charles Rocket. He went outside and stabbed himself naked. And Charles Rocket did that in the snow. It's a very. Who's Charles Rocket? He was the, uh, he was the, uh, the update host that got fired for saying [ __ ] on the air. What year was that? Do you remember that? Uh, evidently no, because I, he was, but yeah, before you. Yeah, he was pretty famous. Like they were trying to make him a Chevy Chase and Dennis after before now, what before Dennis, he was, we talking about God, the the cast was like Denny Dillon and I think Gilbert Gottfried, '80, '81, and then his death was in '05. He stabbed himself. Yeah. What does it say about his death? He slit his own throat in a field. He slit his own throat. Jesus Christ. So, yeah, there's something, you know, you would think if you took yourself out, you'd want to do it like the, you'd think of the easiest way. You know what I mean? Yeah. Not the most painful. Well, for me, it's a one-two punch. Like, for me, it's I don't want to experience pain and I'm lazy. Yeah. So, I wouldn't want to hike to the top of a suspension bridge, you know what I mean? Or something like that. So, what would you do then? I got to go pills and booze. I'd probably consult Dr. Drew. Like, I don't want to. Here's what I'm looking for, Drew. I don't want to go all Terry Schiavo. You know what I mean? You don't want to fail. Yeah. I don't want to spend the next 20 years with a load in my pants hooked up to a respirator. Christ. There was a guy on the, on the, that was on Seinfeld. Somebody will look this up, I'm sure. But there's a, there's an audio of him phoning 911. He tried to kill himself. He shot himself in the head and he lived. And he phones 911 and he's like, "Yeah, I'm here. I was going to get my foot amputated tomorrow." Cuz he had, uh, diabetes. Diabetes. Mhm. So he says, "I decided to kill myself, but I'm, I'm alive and I [ __ ] my pants." You worked that into the. So, I guess it's a nice courtesy heads-up to the ambulance guys, right? Well, the am, the cops come, like, you know, it's a 20-minute, they stay on the line. Daniel von Bargen. Daniel von Bargen, who played George's boss. George's boss for this. You, you know a lot about this stuff, right? It was just a thing. But he, uh, and then he later died. But, um, but anyways, yeah. And then the cops come and they're going in, they're going, "Are you, where's the gun? Where's the gun?" He's like, "It's over there." Like, "Yeah, no, I'm no threat." So, Norm, I was watching you and Regis. Regis, wasn't he? Oh. Oh. Oh, the millionaire thing. Yeah. And it, I've had this happen on a much smaller scale where you've done the stupid thing. For me, it was like Jeff Foxworthy. I was trying to be smarter than a zygote. And you give your answer and they go, "Are you sure?" And you go, "Uh, why?" And they go, "Cuz," and then, you know, it's a celebrity thing, so they may be helping you out because once you lock it in, it's final. And you go, "Oh, well, hold on. Maybe it's Cape Horn. Is it Cape Horn that I'm talking about? Maybe it's not the Mariana's Trench." And then you go, "Okay, if you're sure." And you go, "Well, I was, but now I'm not." We just. God, he [ __ ] gas lit you. No, he didn't. What happened was I thought he knew the answers, or I thought even if he doesn't know the answers, he's real smart. But it turns out he doesn't know any of the, he doesn't know anything. No. So, uh, but what happened was during the break, but this is for the million dollars. Yeah, I know. But right before the million-dollar question, Reg said, "We got to take some time off cuz Notre Dame's playing." That's his, uh, his team. So, he wanted to watch it, and I had all this money on it. So, he's like, "How much money do you have on it?" So, I told him, he's like, "What?" So, so he's like, "Are you just, uh," because I had guessed on an answer for 500,000. Mhm. Uh, I, it was a question about, here was the question. Um, who wrote "O, Calcutta!" with John Lennon? Mhm. So, I didn't know anything about musicals, and there was four answers. One of them was Beckett. So, I thought, well, "O, Calcutta!" sounds like a depressing [ __ ] bleak thing. I mean, anything I ever heard about Calcutta, right? Sure. Bunch of [ __ ] in the street. Like human [ __ ] Human [ __ ] Yeah. So, I say, "Well, Beckett used to write about human [ __ ] a lot." Mhm. So, I guessed, so he knew I guessed, and I, I said it fast, like, "Final answer," because I didn't want him to stop. Right. And, uh, so then, then we go on the break, and he realizes I'm a compulsive gambler. So, then when we get back, he then he wants to protect me. That's all he was trying to do. And actually, if I had answered the million dollars, it would have been better for the show because they have an insurance policy that if someone wins the million, the insurance company pays. So, the half a million is the worst thing that could happen to them, right? Cuz it's the maximum amount they have to pay. Exactly. It's interesting. Yeah. What people don't realize is if you want to do some sort of contest, like you put the piece of plywood in front of the hockey goal and it's got the little cutout that's as big as a mousetrap, and the guy's going to hit it from the blue line, if it goes through, and you win a million bucks. That's insured. Yes. Right. Right. Right. So, the hockey, whoever owns the team doesn't pay, they pay some underwriter 15 grand who does a bunch of calculations, and they'll, they'll pay the million bucks if, if on the off chance the puck goes through and hits the net. Yeah. You know, uh, those guys, those underwriters or whatever they're called, are fascinating. It's like the character that Edward G. Robinson played in Double Indemnity, where he was, he does a great speech where he goes, "Death by, death by," I can't do Edward G. Robinson, but he's like, uh, "Listen, cuz the guy died from jumping off a train." And he goes, "Listen, death by, uh, jumping off a bridge, 14%. Death by," and he had all the deaths, you know, what the percentage was? He goes, "Death by jumping off a train, 0%." Um, anchoring SNL's news and slitting your throat, less. Oh god. Way less than 0%. Um, so you, you, uh, you go on Letterman, you, you knock it out of the ballpark. You, you, you break down in tears, then you on SNL as well and hit a home run. Is there a thing? Same year, I think. Yes. Is there a thing with you? So Norm, I'm always trying to figure this out with you. Uh, on one hand, you're a little reclusive. You got a, you know, you got a little Howard Hughes in you. Little mad genius kind of a thing. Yeah. But you got the Howard Hughes where you're buying the $4 million. On the other hand, the better side of you also have the part where you, you clean up, you pull it together, take a shave, take a shave, and take a shave, and you go out there and hit a home run. Yeah, that's true. Sometimes I can do that. So, why not do that all the time? Um, I don't know because you have that gear. It's a gear you can go into. Uh, yeah. You know, I don't think Jan-Michael Vincent can find that gear on his transmission. Sorry for the car metaphor, but I'm saying you find that gear. Where? Why did you say Jan-Michael Vincent? Well, I'm thinking of a guy who really can't clean up, straighten up, get a shave, put on a suit, and get out there and hit a home run and do something that you do, like a stand-up set with the skill that it takes, or go on Saturday Night Live and hit a home run. And that department, I don't think that's within his grasp. But what he was the most handsome guy in the world. Yes. And then booze, it shows you what booze can do. You know, it took away his looks, right? But I, it's strange you said that because I follow him on Twitter and then I, I DM'd him and then this other guy goes, "It's not him." Because like on that, he's real like belligerent on his like, "Ah, [ __ ] you, you [ __ ] I got no, you know." Yeah. He was a big star in the early '70s and he was really just kind of known for, he was Patrick Swayze before Patrick Swayze was Patrick Swayze. It's like if you were looking for a guy to take a shirt off in a movie, it would have been Jan-Michael Vincent. And I don't mean all roided up and puffed up. I just mean a natural great athletic physique and great, great look. Nobody. World's Greatest Athlete. Oh, the World's Greatest Athlete. What? No, that was that was Kurt Russell. I think it was him. We got to figure out whether it was him or not. And then I believe it was Kurt Russell, but maybe that was funny you said that was one of the first movies I ever saw. I was so excited. He was in Hooper. I think he was in Hooper and I think he was in Big Wednesday, too. Maybe. I don't even know what that is. All he was in The Mechanic with Charles Bronson. Well, he was in Hooper with Burt Reynolds. No, he wasn't. What would it have sounded like if Jan-Michael Vincent was asking Burt Reynolds about a stunt? What would Bert's advice be to you? Called him gags. Gags. That's right. Yeah, he played Ski in Hooper. What? I'm blowing your mind. Because usually, see this Hooper, by the way, Brian Keith is brilliant in Hooper. Yes. This is why we don't get laid and David Spade does because when you're talking to a hot 23-year-old who just moved here from Indiana and you're talking to her about Jan-Michael Vincent and, oh, and, uh, Brian Keith, never, never act your age, committed suicide. No, he didn't. That, I, I, that now I think he did. Yeah. Now we'll look up that one too. I think also Marcus Welby, World's Greatest Athlete. Yes, he was to win World's Greatest Athlete. Jan-Michael Vincent was. Yeah. See, you got Kurt Russell screwed up because he did all the Disney movies, but not the World's Greatest Athlete. Or maybe he was in it, but Jan was in it. Can we find out if he was in it? Uh, Brian Keith committed suicide. Jeez. You know, um, um, there's a great movie. If you ever want to see a great movie that's sort of forgotten, it's by David Lynch. And I'm not really a David Lynch guy. Mhm. I don't understand movies that are weird. I'm with you. But he made a movie that was straight out, uncomplicated, called The Straight Story, based on a guy who drove his lawnmower across the country to see his brother. I remember that. And it was an old guy named Richard Farnsworth. Mhm. And so Richard Farnsworth played this role riddled with cancer. Mhm. But he didn't tell anyone, and he was up for the Academy Award, and if he had told anyone, they, he would have won the Academy Award for sure. And I remember seeing him on the Tonight Show, frail. And anyways, he went out, they called it the, because he was a stunt man before. Mhm. And they call it the stunt man's death. You, uh, you take a shotgun, you know, and you, with your toe, you press the goddamn trigger. It's all we got. Just so, and you don't want to burden your family. So, he told no one in his family, and they, and it's sort of nice. I'd like to be burdened. I mean, I'd like to burden family members. That's the way I feel. Well, you know, I have a, I'd actually maybe I'll go film and Louise with that $4 million Porsche. Yeah. Just drive it right into the Grand Canyon. I don't know if you would, though. That'd be a good way to go. I have a, the, I have a living will, which is exactly what you're talking about. Like, what would you do in case, right? Mhm. And I had to think about it, and I said, "Don't pull the plug. [ __ ] it." Like, like, "Let me live for as long as possible because maybe I'll wake up. I don't [ __ ] know. Maybe I'll be conscious and I can hear you." Yeah. Because I know if I don't have a living will, everybody will just go, "Hey, what did you think Norm would want?" They go, "I, he told me he'd want to die. Let's pull that plug and kill him." So you don't have to, you know, so you don't have to be a burden, which means your mother doesn't have to go and, you know, miss her bridge game to touch your hand. You don't want her stroking your hand instead of playing bridge. Norm, what is I want to tease this. I wouldn't even get one plug. I'd like a series of plugs. If you have one plug, then you get a janitor with one of those big brooms. Yeah. Be sure to hit the plug. I feel like one of my family members would be like, "Oh, man. My phone needs to be charged." And then someone else would go, "Hey, that, that machine's breathing for Adam right now." And they'd go, "Yeah, but I feel like he's, we got a few minutes before he flatlines. Just let me get a quick charge in." And that's what, that's the way I would. And I always think I'd hear, "Oops." You know what I mean? You, I think I always think I'd be conscious enough to hear, for some reason. I want to know. You know, it's a really sad story. I looked at Michael Palin's Facebook page and Terry Jones has dementia. Michael Palin wrote a long article. See, this wouldn't work with a girl either. No, no, no. Not Spade. Never brings this stuff up. He's talking about emojis and [ __ ] Hey, so Norm, I, I'll tell you what I would like. What about, what about when Hillary said, "I want to find out what you, uh, college students think of, um, of, uh, tuition in four emojis or less." Is that what she said? I want you to tell me what a day in the life of Norm McDonald is. Now, hold on, hold on, hold on. I'm teasing here. I don't want the one where you have to go out to Cobb's Comedy Club in San Francisco, San Francisco, October 7th through the 9th, or South Point Casino in Las Vegas, October 21st through the 23rd. I want to know what just an average, I'm at home on a Tuesday is. I want to know what time you wake up. I want to know what you watch. I want to know what you eat for breakfast. I want to know how you navigate this city without a, the use of an automobile or, or at least a license to operate one. I just want you to think about your average weekday at home. Gambling, foibles, possible masturbation, the entire thing. All right. Now, I'll tell you guys about Rich Uncles. My entire life, you're asking me. Just one day. Okay. Just one day in, uh, 2016. Which would you rather do with your money? Would you rather put it in the bank and earn less than 1% or be the bank's landlord and get over 6 12%? The latter. Yeah, it's rhetorical, man. Wait a minute. Isn't the former? Oh, wait a minute. Rich Uncles. It's a REIT. R-E-I-T. Real estate investment trust. Pulls the money, gets all the investors together, and then gets the real estate and leases out to creditworthy tenants like Walgreens, Chase Bank, guys like that. So, easy. You guys want to get into some commercial real estate, but maybe you don't got enough scratch to get started? That's all right. Go to Rich Uncles. And I talked to Howard from Rich Uncles. Good guy. Into it. Um, says people try it out, they get started, and then they always get hooked, and they always come back because, uh, it's an earner, and whatever you're getting at the bank is way less than 1%. It's not even worth it. So, go to their website. It's, uh, Rich Uncles REIT. Rich Uncles REIT Tier 2 offering for yourself. Go to richuns.com. That's richuncles.com, or give them a call, 855 Rich Uncles. Rich Uncles REIT is seeking indications of interest concerning its REIT Tier 2 security offering. Any indication of interest involves no obligation or commitment of any kind. No money or other consideration is being solicited, and if sent in response, will not be accepted. No sales will be made or commitments to purchase accepted until the offering statement is qualified. This media outlet is being paid under $15,000 by Rich Uncles for this single message. All right. Norm McDonald. Wow. Based on a true story, Pulitzer Prize nominated. Um, very good book. What is a day in the life, uh, for you, Norm? Well, it's sort of co, I don't know if it's coincidental that you asked me that because you, when you write an autobiography, that's, you have to sort of examine your life, which can be a terrifying endeavor, or, u, but, yeah, I, I found that, uh, my life was, uh, very mundane, but I haven't, you know, it's true, I have a small world, but I now live in a community, and, u, I have my mother who lives in the next building. Mhm. Are you in a condo? Yes, I have a condo, and then, uh, my mother has a condo, and so she is, and she and I have very similar lifestyles. Mhm. Uh, so we're almost like a couple, really. Yeah. Are you seeing anybody? Yeah. My, my mom. Your mom. Oh, okay. I should have been inferring that. Sorry. You're having, I'm not, I hear what you're saying. I'm not seeing anyone romantically. Mhm. Um, because, you know, I got my mother, and, sure. Yeah. No one has a mom. Yeah. I mean, is your mother alive? Yeah. Sadly. Oh, good. Oh my god. Come on. I'm a dick. No, you love deserve me. You love, I've heard you talk about your mother. I've heard you talk about your mother. Yeah. Um, but my mother is amazing. Mhm. And, you know, people say their mother's a saint, but my mother actually is. She judges no one, which is incredible. She's happy. Do you ever meet people that are super happy? Like, she will without a trace of irony come back. Uh, she never has any irony in her. She just, her eyes shine love. But she will come back and she'll go, "Norm, I have the most amazing story. The funniest thing happened at the grocery store." Like, "What happened?" She's like, "There was a woman in there. She bought a like a pineapple and it was $1.49, but last week it was $1.19." I'm like, "That's not a [ __ ] story, old bag. There's no point." But it made her all happy. And I'm like, "Well, I'd trade places with you." Even though I'm jealous of the happy people, and I'm jealous of these simple people who literally just sort of describe what's happening and then laugh, like they'll go, "Look at that dog." And you'll go, "Yeah." And they go, "It's up on its hind legs." And you go, and you think, "I know. I'm standing here and I'm watching what it's doing."

It's walking on its high leg." And you go, "Yes, that's what's happening."

Mother reads things while we're driving in a car. She'll go, "Like Ed's Auto Shop." Oh, like a sign. That's angering. Yeah. I go, "What? What? What is it? Are are you and and I don't... Please take this, um, and it's not even a put-down. Are you too smart to be happy? Do you know too much? Are you know what I'm saying? There's a part of you that just knows too much. You've seen too much. You've been around too many people. And it, it's just you and not to be happy, but I mean to be easily amused."

Well, you know, I don't want to do a joke for my act, but, uh, do it. No, I do a joke like about retards or dancing or what? Yeah. The R-word. Mhm. About how, you know, every feel sorry for them, but yet they're the happiest people in the world, you know? So, people are like, "Oh, look at those poor people. They, they don't understand the horror of life. That's the problem." You know what I mean? They'll probably die happy. There's no cure. So, you know, that's what I think when I see people with Down syndrome. There's a certain amount of envy that you have.

I have it with my dog. Well, dogs. Yeah. I mean, my dog's whole body wags when I come walking through the house and it just couldn't be happier. Or a dog also can throw up and then just be happy again. You know what I mean? Like if you throw up, you go, "Oh, I got to lie in bed. Like something might happen to me." It's a good point. Or you, you see a dog with three legs, he's not mourning his leg. He's going on his life. Dogs are, are they're dogged, pardon the pun, because it's like I eat soft-shell crab, I get food poisoning, and then I decide I'm never eating soft-shell crab again. My dog eats a flip-flop, throws up, and then decides he's got room for another flip-flop. Or he eats the digest. Oh, he'll eat that and then he'll eat some, he'll eat the next flip-flop.

What is a flip-flop? I mean, a shoe. A shoe. Shoe. Sorry. Nationality. You got a big dog. It's a 115 lb black lab. What is it? A Newfoundland. Oh, black. No, it's a black lab. He's a ton of. He's a sweet ton of dog.

All right. So, you wake. What time do you? What time do you go to bed at? No. What time do you wake up in the morning? It depends on when I go to bed, but I go to bed pretty late, I'm guessing. Yeah. Because you know what? I, I, um. So, you're done cuddling with your mom and it's lights out about what time? My mom goes to bed early. So, it's back to the unit. Now, I got to stay up and remember I live in a different place than my mother. That's not what I hear. Sleep in a different bed. That's not the way I heard it, but I may be wrong.

Is there gambling? Is there daily gambling? Be like Norman Bates. Um, no. No. The gambling is done. The gambling done. Yeah, I'm done with gambling. How long's it been? Um, six weeks. Six weeks. Yeah. So, no more gambling. Well, I don't know. Not for a while.

Were you able to quit cold turkey or did you have to go to a program? No, no, no. I just quit. But here's what, here's my big problem. Very good at selecting certain games. Like, for instance, I, I picked Rory McIlroy to win when he was, oh, golf, you know, right? Probably 150 to one, right? I don't know what the odds were, but, uh, I, anyways, I have very good picks. So then I'll get an online account. Now, I think this is illegal. I'm not sure, but I'll get an online account and put $10,000 in it. Try to be, try to not spend that much, right? So then I pick my, my pick that I really believe in and I, $2,500 and it comes in. Now I have $12,500. Now I bet on every [ __ ] thing, right? You know, now I, I'm bet. I don't know anything about baseball. Well, I'm just betting it. So, uh, then eventually, of course, it, uh.

So, what is, what is? We got a guy who's been on for a million years, but I still want to hear the schedule. Oh, yeah. I'm, I'm interested in you, Norm. No, that's nice. I'm, I'm fascinated. I think a lot of people are. I, I'll tell you moment by moment. All right. Hold on.

Jake, 20, Detroit. Hey guys. Uh, Norm, just wanted to say a big, big fan. I saw you last April in Royal Oak and you're amazing. Oh, I love Royal Oak. Royal Oak is great. Have you done Royal Oak? It's outside of Detroit. So great. Yeah. Detroit. Yeah. You drive through Detroit. It's a lot of fixer-uppers. Yeah. Yeah. And then you get to Royal Oak, which is really nice. Beautiful theater. Sorry, Jake. Yes. No. Yeah. So, my question is, uh, so in an interview with Huff Post Live, uh, talking about when you hosted SNL. Yeah. You said that you had an idea that you were going to just leave and not do the rest of the show. Your monologue. But you said that, so, so like someone talked you out of it and I was just wondering who that was that talked you out of it.

There was, like, there was three writers that, uh, I worked. I, I didn't use any of the writers from Saturday Night Live. Instead, I picked, you know, these three genius writers that used to write in Saturday Live. So, uh, we wrote the whole show and so the writers really hated us anyway. But that was my idea. I was like, uh, yeah, I'll just do the monologue and leave and, and it's a great idea. And then I thought it would be really good for the show, you know, I mean, a ton of press, make huge news. And also, they would have to, you know, they would have to on the fly change sketches and stuff. It would be very exciting. You know, Will Ferrell would have to jump in and, you know, be my, take my role. Yeah. And, uh, you know, uh, you know, Sheryl O'Terry would have to be Burt Reynolds or something, you know? And, uh, and then I thought, and then one writer said, you know, you're, I explained that to him and he said, well, you're, you're saying like you're going to do something that's going to be good for SNL and then you're, you're going to, it's going to be really bad for you and you could be just walking out of show business if you do that.

I had this thing that's along the same lines and I, I think it's groundbreaking. I think it would be interesting. And you're right. It would it would force. Thanks, Jake. It would make it live. Thanks for not seeing me when I was at the Royal Oak out there. Appreciate that. Oh, Adam, you got to come again. Come again. I'll see you. Yeah. Yeah, that's what you said last time. No, actually, I, I, I. You were probably 16 and a half or 17. You were a little young when I was there last time, but thanks. No. Um, it would force SNL to kind of do what they claim to do in a certain sense, like a lot of improv sketch groups, like you'd really have to do it in real time. And that would be very exciting. And I think it would be really exciting. It would be totally groundbreaking. And I bet it would even work. And I bet the audience would even like it once they caught on to it. Yeah. Yeah. That it was real.

I had this idea, Norm, and you tell me what you, what you think of this. I love The Sopranos, right? Uh, at a certain point when they weren't going to continue anymore, it was Gandolfini. All the other cast members were like, "We'd love to do season 28." Is that right? Oh, yeah. That makes sense. Sure. I remember, I remember Big [ __ ] going. Yeah. Like as I, as I prodded around a little and asked some of the guys when I'd interview them, they'd go, "We would kind of like, but we respect James. We respect James." But you could tell, yeah, they wanted to do another, another season, you know, just like, uh, the guy from, uh, Wham wants to get back together, you know, like, just like I want to do a Man Show tour with Jimmy, like the three guys from Aftermath, right? Yeah. Harry Potter, Gary Burghoff, and Jamie Farr. They'll kill themselves. But now, yes, I. This is your idea. This is my idea. I said, uh, Ted McGinley, the guy who would show up, the good-looking guy who would show up, the Happy Days, and he'd show up to every show at the end, at the end. Yeah. Married with Children, even the reboot of The Love Boat. I said, I would watch and I think everyone would watch. We just swap out Gandolfini with McGinley, right? But we don't alter the scripts or anybody else around him. It's all the exact same dialogue. It's all the exact same thing. They call him the same thing. The wife responds, the kids the same. And they're at the club, the Ba-da-bing. It's all exactly the same as if you were just going and doing season 11. It's just Ted McGinley. So it would become a comedy. Well, it'd be a surreality. Like you wouldn't, I don't know what it would be, but I would watch it. Wouldn't you? Yes, absolutely. That's fascinating. You wouldn't play? You wouldn't tell Ted to put on weight or do anything or even dress differently? Just be. Yeah. If you used whatever. I can't think of another guy had young Ed Asner or something, then that idea wouldn't work. No, he'd just be him and he'd be Tony and everything would be exactly the same. That would be. Yeah, I would definitely think you'd watch one season of that. Fascinating experiment. Yes.

All right. Somebody, uh, I want you. Still think about a day in the life of Norm Macdonald. Bryce, 25, West Hollywood. Hey, how's it going, guys? Hey guys. Big fan of both of you. You're my comedy heroes. Oh, that's nice. Thank you. We're mistaken for one, one another. Yes, often. What do you do when you're mistaken? Cuz when I'm mistaken, I just go, "Yeah." Yeah, I do, too. But, uh, anyway, I, I thought this was the perfect opportunity to call you. Now that you're both in the room together, I got fired about a month ago from a very well-paying gig for doing a Norm Macdonald joke. What? Let's hear the joke. What's the joke?

Well, I know how much Norm hates this, so I'm going to do the least insulting impression of him as I possibly can. I'm not going to do. You can do. You can do the J. Marsh. I don't care. But basically, I hosted a show at Harry Potter World which paid about $300 a day. Yeah. And at the time, I was obsessed with Norm. Yeah. So my stage manager and I would would always just be talking about Norm Macdonald backstage. And the problem was was on this day we were having a lot of sound issues that were messing up with the speakers, our iPad, which controlled the entire master system. So are you? Are you Universal Studios at this point? Exactly. Okay. Yeah. So I'm hosting a show in front of about 2,000 kids all decked out in Harry Potter gear. Mhm. So, I got on stage. I introduced the dancers. I go, "Please welcome the beautiful ladies of the Boaton's Academy of Magic." Oh, I see. What? What character are you supposed to be? That was you. No. I'm the host. I'm the host. What are you an elf or something? No, no, no. I'm dressed up as a Hogwarts student. Oh, okay. Okay. It's kind of hard to explain if you've never been there, but essentially it's a stunt and dance show, and I'm just the MC who goes out and introduces the different. We call them gags, but go ahead. Yeah. So anyway, I switch from the British accent when I go backstage and not knowing that my microphone is still on and I make a joke that was based on an interview that Norm once had with Barbara Walters on The View and I said I looked at my stage manager not knowing my microphone was on and I said, uh, hey, uh, hey Kyle, you know, this, uh, this Harry Potter guy, you know, he murdered a guy in cold blood back in '88 in the Texas bar fight and then at that moment, you know, it only been like 10 seconds, but that's a long 10 seconds if it's going out to an amusement park. And they let, they let you go.

Well, here's the deal. Because it technically wasn't my fault. It was the sound fault. They what they did was I was magically moved from number one on the roster of seven people who hosted the show to number seven the very next day. And I haven't worked since. Oh, you haven't worked since? I haven't worked since. Oh, I would feel bad except you did that impression that you said you weren't going to do. No, I thought I wasn't going to do the annoying one. That was the toned-down one. I thought it was pretty toned down, Norm. Well, let's hear the. Let's hear the. Let's hear the one that would be insulting. Okay. I'm from Canada. I don't really, uh, I don't really understand flossing. You know, all it does is give your, make your teeth a big mountain of blood. No, you're right. That is more annoying. You're right. Right. That is what with your kind of range. You know what? People say that and then the other guy goes, "You sound exactly like him." And I'm like, "What the [ __ ] We never sound the way that we think we sound, right?" Nothing's true. Nothing can hold you down if with that kind of range. You think he's going to get, get work again? You can do everything from Norm to super extremely annoying Norm. So there's no way you're not going to land on your feet in this town. I should say I never did a joke about. Yeah, I know what joke you're referring to. Do, uh.

All right. So Norm, you're a joke about, just to explain what he was talking about. I went on The View and and I said the, the president was a murderer and just to annoy Barbara Walters because I really, I really dislike Barbara Walters. The president? Yes. I said, "The president, you know, the president's a murderer." And she's like, "You better watch yourself." You know, like I'm in Russia or something. So I'm like, "What? He killed. You don't know that." Like I was, I act like an idiot that didn't know that. Everybody didn't know that. But I really dislike Barbara Walters because Barbara Walters, she, there's, they're like, she's the big, you know, the star woman in, and all this. But she's the one that started this whole goddamn [ __ ] with the Kardashians and, you know what I mean, about fame being currency? That she, she's the one. I don't like her for other reasons, which is, and I can say this about many of the ladies who have graced The View stage, and they don't have any discernible talent. Like, people look at her and go, she's a pioneer. She carried the torch for those who came. It's like, I've never [ __ ] seen her say anything or do anything. Other than that, she's a great pioneer. Like, she sits there, occasionally cracks herself up at her own super weak and lame joke, but mostly looks concerned and then asks overly obvious questions to whoever she's sitting in front of. Yes. Uh, she has tits and a labia, but other than that, I don't see her possessing any particular talent. And as a matter of fact, if she was a dude, she'd never work a [ __ ] day. I mean, she might be writing copy or something, but being completely dry. Say that on on your show. She's not funny at all. She's not even interesting. You'd be thrown off anything if you ever said that outside the show. And I know everyone on The View has been praying for her to leave since day one. But what about that Sherri Shepherd? How could you say, "I, I didn't know I thought dinosaurs lived at the same time as" and then as people. And then you go, "Why shouldn't they just fire her?" I find, uh, Gary, about her view. Find my book in 50 years, chicks. There's a little, I wrote a little something about the ladies from The View that Gary will look up. Yes, I did The View myself. I always thought you thought they were a hoot. [Laughter] Well, I bet your mom loves The View. Joy Behar always reminded me like of my aunt or something. You know what I mean? Like the one who thought she was funny. Yeah. Right. So the, so you Norm, but she, when she, when I did Saturday Night Live, she was in New York City and she would come into the club, she was before The View for some reason, she was some celebrity that could get a spot and bump people. I don't know what she did. She might have been radio orers. I don't know what she did.

Well, as a guy famous, as a guy like yourself. Yeah. And I talk about this all the time. Like I go, who has made the most with the least and then who's made the least with the most? Oh, that's interesting. Now, I got like Drew Carey on my earners list of a guy who never said anything funny that, that I'm aware of, and has made cajillions of dollars. And people can go, "Oh, why, why you hating on him?" And I'm like, "Well, wait a minute. Every once in a while, they come, every year, they come with the list of celebrities who get paid the most, movie stars who don't earn." And then they go, "Julia Roberts commands $27 million a picture, yet her films fail at the box office." And everyone's like, why are they hating on Julia? It's like, well, wait a minute. She's the smartest one in the group, right? What you don't want to be is the one, the one who gets $80 and the movie makes $200 million bucks. You want to be the one who makes $27 million bucks and the movie makes $11 million. So, in a weird way, complimenting Drew Carey is what I'm, is what I'm saying. He's able to make hundreds of millions of dollars.

Before the TV show, wouldn't you put Jim Belushi in that category? Just an enormous amount of movies. Yes. And money and TV shows. Yeah, he did a couple of movies a year and none of them succeeded and he kept getting movies, TV shows and everything else. So, in terms of, and, and I think you agree with me, and again, it's not really a put-down. It's more like you've made the most and I've never, I've just, I don't even know if Drew Carey's not funny. I've just never heard him say anything that was funny while I was around. I remember first seeing Drew Carey in the Improv and there was another guy named Brian Haley who also dressed, he was a Marine and he also dressed in a gray suit, but, you know, Drew had these big glasses on and I was like, what is a kind of costume act is this? And then he went on stage, I go, this guy from the '50s, what is, what is his act? I didn't understand. And then all of a sudden, boom, bang, right Carson, like anointing him. Did you laugh? No, but I, I like Drew as a person. Gary, this is what Drew has. Have you met Drew? No. He gets really close to your face. Maybe, maybe I've met him. He gets very close to your face and he tells you jokes, like old jokes and laughs at them. I, I would assume he's a, a nice guy. He's very nice. And except when you go to his house and there's sex dolls that he has [ __ ] like sitting on chairs and you're like, "Good Lord." And you know, he invites you. You're like, "No, I don't want to [ __ ]." I know. I saw David Spade talking one up the other day. Said, "This one's only 12 months old." Uh, Gary, I say, "Hand the phone or hand the book to Dawson and Dawson will so you don't power through it." But did you do? Did you read your own audiobook? I had to. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Hard, huh? I didn't know how to do it. Like I was like, am I supposed to be an actor? Like if a girl comes up, am I supposed to do a girl's? You should have got that kid who got [ __ ] can from Universal Studios to do your book. No one would know the difference. That would have been funny.

All right, let me tell you first about Simply Safe. Simply Safe. Oh, you ever have that nagging feeling? Why don't they do that impression of you if you and me are so similar? When people do me, they start with a little Norm Macdonald. But then they go into the. See, here's my thing. Yeah. Uh, I have technical expertise in woodworking. Yes. But the, the people who do the impersonation of me don't have technical expertise. You know what I mean? Right. And they don't study it to figure out what. No. So what they do is they go, plywood, but they never can finish it off because they don't have the actual expertise in that. Now, this, my, I don't know if you've ever heard my take on you and you probably take this as an insult. I don't mean it as an insult. That I, I loved Andy Rooney. Andy Rooney and people would put him down. But then they did a show called 60 Minutes 2 and they tried to get hip guys. So they get Charles Grodin and P.G. Right. Right. Right. And they couldn't. These guys couldn't do what Andy Rooney did. Couldn't do what Andy Rooney did. And, uh, so then I thought, well, um, Adam could do it like two minutes. You know, you have an opinion on every subject. If a subject came up and you, I mean, you're going to, it's going to sound insulting, but your voice is almost like Andy. I've heard that. And he was, God bless him, he was a woodworker as well. Well, was he? Yeah. I, but he can talk in two minutes. That's really hard to do. And, uh, you just have to have one strong opinion, right? And you could do that and that pay a fortune. Yeah. Um, yeah.

Here's what the problem would be, Norm. We'd be in like, I'd be going into my seventh one and I'd go into the producer's office and, uh, I'd throw down my manuscript that I wrote, my page and a half, and they, the guy would look up and he'd go, "You can't do the blacks again. You did the last six on black people. You can't do seven and we're going to start to get." No, you save that for here. Oh, okay. Save it. You save it for here. No, I, I always. Here's my lot in life. I always thought to myself, cuz you want to make the most. And I do all the time. I look at Andy Rooney and I'd always go, "Oh [ __ ] I could do that." But then I also pause and go, "No one would ever ask me to do that in 200,000 years. You got to bust open the door, buddy. Don't [ __ ] stay at home like a goddamn reckless. Get to Don Hewitt's office." This is coming from the guy who doesn't own a learner's permit. I have a learner's permit, but it [ __ ] ran out. Norm, five days. The show that everyone wants to see is Adam teaches Norm how to drive. Oh yes. Remember that show? We would crash the internet with that show. Now I'll do it. Last year I wouldn't have done it. I'm up for it. Last year I wouldn't have done it, but not, no [ __ ] car where you press the and it shoots up fast. None of that [ __ ]. I was in a [ __ ] car, a Tesla, right when my friend wanted to buy a Tesla. And you do a Burt Reynolds impersonation. I know. How dare you? I know. And no. No. But listen, Norm. And the guy that drives the Tesla is an expert driver, so he's shooting through the streets full speed. Not me. You won't. You would. But do you do that in real life, though? No, I. You race cars. I do. And so I get it out of my system. But it does make you sick with fear. Like when you do, you know what I mean? That movement, just the speed. It doesn't. Well, in the race car, you get belted in with a six-way harness, so you feel like you're strapped in like an astronaut, so you can't go anywhere. There's a weird feeling of security. It is. You're in a cage. Security. You're in a cage and you're strapped in six ways. How often do you go? Do you go a lot to the? I do about five events a year. Oh, events. But you don't go by yourself just to practice. No, I just go race. Do the, a vintage race. But the. Oh, vintage race. Wow, that sounds cool. It is cool. But here's, here's what I'm saying. So, they give you the car? No, I own the car. Okay, I got you. And, uh, now what if you wrecked the car? Uh, the cars can be, um, insured on the way to the track and on the way home from the track and, and when it's parked in your garage. But not on the track. No, not on the track. Not on the track. So, whatever you destroy, Robinson would he would not be happy. But, and, and so if you crash Paul Newman's $4.5 million car on the track, then you got to fix it. That's what I. This car belonged to Paul Newman. The $4.5 million car. Well, he raced it and won at Laguna Seca and you own it. Well, not yet. I got to pay for it. Holy. It's a long story. I'll tell you what. Hold that thought. But that's got magic in it because Paul Newman, Norm. I got a bunch of cars I can show you with Paul Newman's DNA in it. Really? Yeah. But look, Norm, people say all the time, "You and Norm, you and Norm, you and Norm." And I go, "Yeah, I'd do that." And I go, "I do the show where I teach Norm how to drive. I put a couple GoPros in a car. I take it easy." Yeah. I think I said last time, no. No, you said yes. But in a very like, you know, non-believable way. But, but this year, you're saying yes. Yeah, I'm saying yes in a more. Why? Why have you come around? What? Why have I come around? I don't know. Why a year ago? Paul Newman. Maybe it was our discussion with Paul Newman. Oh, I raced his cars. And how he, you know, he became a four-time national champion at age 47. Yeah. Well, you know what? I'll show you the documentary then. I'm damn near 47. Yeah. You just went back six years, you'd be 47. All right. I'll tell you what. Stifle yourself for, uh, one second and then we'll get into this stuff. Simply Safe. I ever have that nagging feeling when you leave the house? Oh, did I leave something open? What's going on? Well, now you don't have to worry. You got Simply Safe. I have Simply Safe. Dawson has Simply Safe. Mike August has Simply Safe. Peel and stick. No drilling, no pulling wires, no long-term lock-in contracts, no big fat commitments. Just $14.99 a month. Three times less than other companies. Protect your home. Do it the smart way. Use Simply Safe. You can visit them online. Two I's in there. S-I-M-P-L-I Safe Adam. Go to simplysafeadam.com right now. 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All right. So, uh, Norm Macdonald, the book based on a true story, a memoir. Very good. I read it, uh, last night. Uh, becomes surreal at times, but, uh, but very good. Uh, and available now on Amazon. You know what to do. Click through our site, bookmark us. So, um, Norm, what would you think of this? You were. I'm going to do a Netflix special. You are? Yeah, I don't like doing specials, but Oh, wait. I didn't. The one thought I just wanted to finish is where I had Drew Carey at the top with the most earning. Am I? Well, there we got a friend named Josh Gardner who's, uh, maybe a little below you. He'd be way. Come on. He'd way below me. Way below. Yeah, he would. He might be more talented than me. I don't know. You know what I mean? Close. But I have. But everyone does that thing where everyone agrees Norm is a genius and a comedic genius. And so the question is, is can we get you out? Can we get you behind? I've, I've, I've tried these things. You know, I'm not a great collaborator, but I'll tell you this. What would you do in this situation? Because I think it would be much different than what I did. Your agent says, uh, by the, you know, we did the Netflix special. We got the deal. It's in Boston at the Wilbur Theater. I'm going to be at the Wilbur Theater coming up on, uh, the, uh, October 8th. October 8th at the Wilbur Theater. Don't miss Adam, right? Yeah. Uh, does that sound good? Yeah. Yeah. So, I'm doing it at the Wilbur Theater, my Netflix special. So, um, my manager told me, uh, the other day, he's like, you know, we got the deal, but you got to pay for your own hotel room. So, I'm like, that's kind of odd. You know, I got to pay for my own hotel room. Mhm. And then he said, "I got to tell you though, um, me and a couple guys are going from, uh, here, you know, when we got our own deal, we, we got the hotel room paid for." Your manager told you this? Yeah. Yeah. I remember. So, what would you do if your manager told you such a thing?

Well, I can tell you this. Uh, me and Jimmy had a manager. Yeah. Oh, that was Baby Doll. No, no, we still have Baby Doll. This is Howard from your native land of Canada. Of course. Howard. And I remember once and Gary. Oh, yeah, let's not forget Dawson and Joy Behar. But, uh, I remember once the Vegas has the whatever hotel with the Four Seasons above it. Oh, yeah. With the four floors above it or the Four Seasons and then down below is the the Ricketts Hotel or whatever it is. Now that's the best hotel in Vegas. Mandalay Bay. Mandalay Bay is the first 22 floors and then the top, the incredible one. And we were standing in the lobby and it, they, they invited Jimmy and I out to Vegas to host or present at some sort of sports awards show or something in 2000 or something and we're all in the lobby like getting on to the elevator and he said, he said, "We like what floor you on?" Like, "I'm on 11, Jimmy's on nine." He's like, "I'm on 27." And we said, "What?" He went, "I got myself booked into the Four Seasons." And he started laughing and he pushed a button and I just thought, I don't know, this feels like a tactical error to me because he's not even supposed to be here, but he'd managed to. He's laughing, but did he didn't pay for it? No, he managed to work it out with the producers of the show that he stayed in the Four Seasons, but that the talent who he represented who theoretically supposed to be looking out for was going to stay at the Rink. He laughed. He laughed in your face. Well, it was a. He didn't know what he was doing. It was a little more of, uh, that, uh, crowd that kind of thing where you got the, you got the large fries when you only ordered the regular and your buddy got no fries and it was a little the kind of thing that you and Jimmy were just in shock and didn't react to. I remember just thinking, why did he tell us that so proudly? Why did he boast about that? A manager would go, "I got you guys into the Four Seasons." And I'm. But you didn't get angry or anything at him. You just let it play out. You know what I. You just said, "When I get to Jimmy's room, we'll laugh about it." I did what I do with everything, Norm. I thought to myself, noted. Yeah. Right. I'll just go ahead and put that in the hopper and we'll see if we've revisited again at some other point. Very complicated relationship with Howard Leas. I'll bet. It's so strange. But anyways, I don't know if I want. I'll say it. This is what happened. All right. I, I, I, I had to fire him at one point. Yeah. Yeah. Everybody does. He went crazy when I fired him. And he, he was like pacing around the room going, "I knew it. I knew it." Like paranoid and stuff. It's like, like it was unnerving for me because it took me so long to, to gather it, muster up the courage to even fire him, you know? Right. Anyways, I meet him, uh, years later and he's talking to me and this other person. He goes, "You know, I've been fired by a lot of people, but Norm's the only guy that I fired." I shouldn't be telling this, but I said, so I go, "Yeah." Like, because I don't know, that's why if you want, remember it that way, that's better for me. I don't have to feel guilty, right? But now I just told it. Ah, it's all right. Yeah, I think he did. Maybe he did fire me. I'm still friends with him. I don't care. But I fired him. He fired me. He fired me.

All right. Do you have, uh, do you have my, my section on The View from, uh, in 50 years, while I'll be chicks? My book, not Pulitzer Prize nominated. By the way, I know I'm a guy, so I'm supposed to hate The View, but I don't hate The View because I have a dick. I hate The View because I have a brain. The View is going on what feels like its 35th season. It has numerous Emmy nominations and even an Emmy win. And it's a disjointed, scattered piece of [ __ ] that's hosted by some of the least compelling, most untalented people that have graced a television set. If this show consisted of five guys sitting around talking over each other with the occasional hackney joke, awkwardly shoehorned into the meaningless conversation, it would have been yanked off the air years ago. You see, at 10:00 in the morning, all the smart people are at work. That leaves The View's audience. Barbara Walters is about as interesting and funny as the one old teacher you had in junior high. I know everyone treats her like some kind of national treasure, but she's clearly past her prime, and no one at that show would dare utter a word. It's about the same relationship Saddam Hussein shares with his co-workers. When she finally decides to hang up her dentures and call it a career, there will be a silent celebration akin to what the guards did after the Wicked Witch got the bucket of water tossed on her. On her last show, the LA lavalier mics will be recording a lot of "We'll miss you," "We'll stay in touch," "We don't know how we'll carry on without you," but the internal monologues will skew a little more toward "Have fun on the Greyhound bus to hell." [ __ ] Sherry Shepherd is dumb. She's read one book and it's the Bible. She's not haha funny. She's more "we need a fat chick who's not funny" funny. Elizabeth Hasselbeck gets a pass. She's already being punished on a daily basis. Could you imagine if your lot in life was to be wedged between Barbara Walters and Sherri Shepherd? She's the lunch meat between a stale piece of sourdough and the dumbest slab of pumpernickel to ever hit the day-old bin at the bakery. Whoopi Goldberg. What happened to the unstoppable force of comedy that had us doubled over with spun gold such as Burglar, Jumping Jack Flash, and Eddie? An Emmy for The View and an Oscar for Ghost. She deserves those as much as Elvis deserved his black belt in Taekwondo. Joy Behar, she's the funny one. That's like saying Marwan al-Shehhi was the funniest of the 9/11 hijackers. Oh, all right. So, I made my opinion. Holy Lord, I think I made a takedown. Pretty clear on my feelings of the cows from The View. I wonder if, uh, they know of that or anyone from the, because you, I always assume no. I assume they're thick. Well, you know, usually people like they Google themselves and all that and they, or somebody tells them, or. Good Lord. Yeah. Was any of that inaccurate? No. No, it was awesome. And it's gotten even worse since, 'cause they have that strange girl from the Cosby Show. Well, maybe you should read my book. Raven-Symoné. I love that. Got the time to read yours. Goddamn, that was great. I'll get you a copy before you head out. Well, you've written two books already. I've written four books. Four books. Yeah. God, I [ __ ] them out quick. But you, you. Yeah, you can. So, what is your schedule? Give me. You can speak well. Oh yeah, give me your schedule fast, you know, 'cause a book should be, should be as if it was spoken. I agree. So that was like perfect. Uh, my schedule. Oh, yes. My daily schedule. Yes. So I wake up around what time? You know, 10 or 11. Okay. You know, something like that. And, um, you know, I have to eat. Sure. What do you have? Count Chocula. Is that funny? It's a cereal. It's one of the most famous cereals in the world. Right. For people under seven. Wait, what? What do you eat? Oh, you eat like granola. What do you eat? Really? Count Chocula. Yeah. Okay. Count Chocula. Keep going. I hate Frankenberry. It was one of the most disappointing. No, it's huge. And Boo Berry. Jesus. Worse than New Coke. Is this the New Coke?

So, do you know the conspiracy theory about New Coke? No. It was fascinating. Okay, I'll do it very quickly. So, this is the theory that I believe happened and I don't believe in conspiracy theories, but I believe in this one. So, uh, because I loved Coke. So, uh, Coke vanishes. They change it to New Coke and it tastes horrible. You know, go, "What the [ __ ] is this? It doesn't taste anything like Coke. It tastes like Pepsi, right?" So, and people that love Coke hate Pepsi. So, uh, you drink that. So that lasted six months, maybe longer. And then they brought back Coke Classic, right? So now they have Coke Classic and New Coke. And you drink the Coke Classic, tastes so much better than the New Coke. Mhm. That you don't remember what the old Coke tasted like 'cause it took six months. And what do you think they did in that six months? They replaced, uh, cane sugar with corn syrup. Oh, brilliant. It was brilliant. And then only when I tasted. Interesting. It's only my theory. Well, that's a pretty good one. When I tasted the new, the, the Mexican Coke, that's when I came up with the theory. I go, "Wait, that's the drink 'cause you can tell the difference." So, yeah, that's the drink I drank as a kid. As soon as I drank that Mexican Coke, I was like, "Those [ __ ]." So that's a very interesting theory. I'm, I'm down with it. You like that one? Conspiracy theories. You can go to Mexico and get the cane sugar run.

So, all right, I saw, you know, speaking of conspiracy theories, I was, I saw Real Time with Bill Maher. Mhm. Funny, you don't, you've never been invited on that show. I've done it once, I think. Yes. It must be fun to just. I've never done it, but when you have to sit there while he does the "New Rules," he does a bunch of string of jokes, you have to laugh. You have to laugh. But, uh, anyways, I saw on there, you know, they'll put, so if I'm on the show, maybe they put "Normie Comedian" or "Normal SNL." You can choose what you want the chyron to say. So Richard Belzer was on, was like, "Richard Belzer, conspiracy theorist." So I'm like, what? Every, do you believe in? You don't believe in anything? Like, you think everything's a theory? And so he just wrote a book about, uh, as if anybody wants to read about Kennedy anymore. I, I think him and Ed Asner and other guys like that, it should just read, instead of like activist or conspiracy theorist, should just go, "Hates the United States," 'cause that brings it into focus a little more to me, 'cause it's not the conspiracy part, it's that they just [ __ ] hate the United States. Right. Well, if they believe, if you believe 9/11 is an inside job. Yes. And what the hell are you doing? What the [ __ ] are you still doing in the United States? I would agree with you. You're in the worst [ __ ] place ever. All the conspira, the conspiracy theories are never flattering to the United States. That's true. Yeah, you're right. Ever. It's not like, um, you didn't land on the moon. Yeah. Yeah. It's the conspiracy theory is never like, "Oh, the, the My Lai massacre never happened." It's not that. Right. Right. It's, "Oh, no, they say 138 villagers. There are at least a thousand." Like that's the right. There's never a flattering. You're right. There's no conspiracy theory of any country, but especially the United States that ends up being anything close to flattering to the government or the United States. I never thought of that. And also when you say that, I don't know if, uh, it exists in other countries. No, I, I agree. Like in Thailand. Yeah. Who stole that bamboo? No, I don't know. I don't think they do in like Thailand. But I, but when you start really breaking down the Belzers and the Asners, you just sort of realize it, the theme is, we hate the United States. Not that all this stuff happened and we're being naive, right? But then they always say, "Oh my God, they, they, United States was so good to them in your chart, you know, super rich with marginal talent." Yeah, I'd say, yeah, I'd say doing pretty good. I mean, Dennis always told me, "Oh, man, he was the best." You know, Richard Belzer. But, you know, there's tape, videotape I can see from back then, you know, but timing thing. Yeah, I agree.

So, who, uh, so then now we're eating Count Chocula. Oh, yeah. So, I eat some Count Chocula, which I don't know why that's so ridiculous. And, um, then I, um, I, you know, I watch the. Well, can I say this about Count Chocula or any cereals of that ilk? I feel like there's a window. Yeah. The window is age 4 to age 11. What? Hold on. And then it opens up again at 81. You see what I'm saying? But the problem is, is you're kind of in between right now 'cause you see an old guy eating eating Froot Loops or Count Chocula, it's kind, it's kind of cute. You know what I'm saying? And a young kid, it's excusable. What do you think most people eat for breakfast? Adults. Yeah. What do you think they eat? Eggs. You know, other forms of. That's what you eat when you're a child. You eat eggs when you're a child, right? But I, I mean, I, I think some people might have like a protein shake or smoothie or something. I'm talking about adult. You changed it from eggs. Well, no. I'm with eggs. No, I didn't mean to pivot off the egg. So, the. All right. So, Count whatever I eat, it doesn't matter. It's Count. Now, it's noon. It's something in my belly. Yeah. And then I, uh. It's noon. I, five minutes to eat. Okay. I eat at, I just eat like standing up. Mhm. And, uh, uh, then I, uh, I watch TV. What do you watch? Uh, whatever's on. View. Uh, you know, you were talking about who's at home, you know, during these, uh, Yeah. Shows. Yeah. I have noticed that more and more the judges on the judge shows are all black and the, the game show hosts are black during the day. Like, uh, they have Who Wants to Be a Millionaire? It's hosted by a black guy. The judge is Steve Harvey, right? Yeah. A lot of black judges. A lot of black judges. Yeah. And it didn't used to be that way. So it's interesting. Yeah. So if you think there's a high unemployment rate amongst a certain group, that would be a good group to be represented on TV. And it's nobody's fault. No. No. You can't judge. You.

Can't blame anyone for being unemployed. But it is interesting. Yeah. So I watch some of that stuff and then I Oh, wait a minute. Hold on one second. Mike's from New Orleans. Oh, Mike. Yes. Hold on a second. He's from New Orleans and he's unemployed. So maybe we found the black guys watching the Jud show. Mike, how you doing? Are you black? Uh, no, sir. What are you doing unemployed? Norm wants to know. No, no, I got I got you. I never said that. I heard what you said. I used to work in the oil field. That's why. Ah, okay. Yeah. So, uh, you got a question? Oh, yeah. So, you work in the oil fields, you make a whole bunch of money, and then you you're off for a while, right? Yeah. So, I'm traveling, you know, but it's time to go back to work. And so, my question is something that I would want to do uh is what I in have an interest in is writing. Yeah. But I don't live in LA or New York or any live in South Louisiana. So if I don't, you know, uh, teach Jimmy Kimmel boxing or something like that. That's how I got Mike in the show business. Yeah. Well, did you um What do you want to know? Do you have some jokes, Mike? Are they jokes? Like like monologue jokes? Uh, no. I'm talking about write for a show or a comic or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. No. No. Write a spec script. What's your favorite sitcom? Oh, I see. That's good. No, don't write a spectre. Yeah, you don't know any sickops. But do do you do you think you would write monologue jokes for Jimmy Kimmel? Well, or any uh Yes. And maybe movies, too. Movies. We'll throw out a current. But I will say when I was at Saturday Night Live, they I don't know how it works nowadays, but they any jokes I would get sent, I would always read all of them. And uh so, you know, sometimes it was a good joke. And uh you don't get much. You don't get you get like 50 bucks a joke. But if you you know if you uh get a few on the air, all of a sudden you'll get hired. That I I don't know how it works now. Yeah, that's all I know. Yeah, that that that's kind of what my question is. How does it work now with social media or I mean someone like Adam might be inundated with that kind of stuff. No, I don't I don't get a lot of jokes. I wish I wish I did, but there are people that from social media have been hired from your tweets and stuff. Sure. Sure. I know that. So, Mike, do that cuz I'm trying to get to what Nor eats for brunch. Okay. Uh, and yeah, Sugar Smacks, I think. Yes. Your fa your fan club on Facebook says, "Hi, and they want to know where's my uh ACE award for last year." Oh, you got a you got are you talking to Norm? No, I'm talking to you. Uh, all right. Why would I have an ace award? I don't know. Hey, an ace award. I thought my award. Sorry. What are you? Cuz didn't there cable ace? There used to be the cable ace award. I know. When he said it, I was like, of course, the questions to you. Then when you said, are you talking to Norm? I said, maybe it's the cable ace award. So now, so that's why you call it the ace award. Norm, I want to make a little time cable. No, they call me ace. But I know how to call the ace, but let me let me make you this p double meaning to I always I always feel this. Yeah. I feel like uh learning to drive Yeah. would be not only freedom for you Yeah. but a metaphor for your life, a a a transition. Do you know what I'm saying? No. I feel like I mean, you got to say what the metaphor is. Oh, and it's symbolically important to say I, Nor McDonald, own a California driver's license. I'm taking the wheel of my life. I'm taking control of my life. Yes. Okay. You know what I'm saying? And I'm enlarging my world. Yeah. And I think that's a show. It would get 2 million views on uh YouTube if you and I just put in a car. What if I learned to drive, struck a pedestrian, killed him? Well, well, then what? It's even higher ratings. Oh my god. I don't mean during the show. Oh, I see. Later on, read that in the paper. How would I feel personally? Yeah, you wouldn't care. I'd have to check the nationality of the of the pedestrian obviously and the sex and na naturally, but after that, I'd probably feel some remorse depending on what I found. Oh my god, it's lawless in this room. It is. All right. So, now it's about noon. And then you got to be careful about what you say cuz you can say anything. I don't think I can. You can say anything. I don't think I'm protected like you. You're stand up. You can do what you want. So what? Now you have yourself some count. Yeah. Then I I I was going to say I do my exercise for the day. Mhm. Which is what? Putting I have a putting green in your house. No, no, no, no. I not have a mansion. I No, outside. Oh, outside. It's like a community community putting green. Yeah. Right. And then I get very mad cuz Do you go to the market to buy Count Choula? Uh, I get it order, you know, I really should go because it's so close to me. But I get it ordered in. And um the only problem with getting it ordered in is um the tomatoes. My mother makes me tomato on Now you're going to say my mother, but my mother makes me tomato on rye. And that's a sandwich. Oh, it's so good. Like it's not a sandwich because there's only one piece of toast. Openfaced. You take toast, then you put two pieces of tomato on and then you put salt and they put pepper. Oh my god, it's almost like a pizza. Yeah, but better. Yeah, they have things called pizzas that you can they'll actually bring to your home for a nominal fee. I like You should look into it. Listen, man. I like a pizza. Okay. So, then I putt. Okay. You put That's your exercise. And now we're around noon. Mhm. And um and uh then I go back Mhm. to my house and then I I watch more TV. What do you watch now? I just watch random stuff. Uhhuh. Now in I I'm not being honest. What I do is I I watch YouTubetubes. I'm addicted to YouTubes as I think a lot of people are probably cuz you know how you watch a YouTube and then there's a string of things on the side that look interesting. Yeah. So you hit that one, then you hit another one and then it's midnight all of a sudden. Right. So you know I think that's a problem in America. Yeah. Well, the problem with the YouTube thing, it'll be like, it'll the title say like desecration of synagogues worldwide, but it'll be a chick with a decup bursting out of her blouse. And there'll be part of me that goes, I'd like to know more about her, but I'm not sure if I want to see the desecration of a synagogue. So, I'm kind of torn. I also I worry about, you know, because they say the NSA and people look at you my computer because I don't look at porn or anything, but I YouTube a lot of Hitler, you know, and then there's one that there's some Hitler stuff where you have to hit another button, an extra Hitler button. Yeah. Like it's so horrific, you know, like the Holocaust or something. It's like you have to hit another one, say, I'm 18. I can see this this horror. But you don't you don't look at porn. No, I watched it for a while and you know what happened? I got desensitized. Uhhuh. As they say. Did you ever get desensitized? You know, I'm uh I'm careful to not desensitize myself to things that are would be called vices. So, you watch them in moderation. Uh yeah. I'm like I'm sort of I have a relationship with uh booze uh with cigarettes. Oh, really? With porn. Cigarettes you can control. Two at night. Wow. But but in the middle of the night. No, not during the daytime. That's great. Well, yeah, cuz I enjoy it. Few people could do that. I I know. No uh doctor ever believes me. But my thing is like I enjoy it and I realize if I wake up in the morning and light a cigarette, I have to quit because you'll smoke all day. Just because it'll now be a problem and you'll need to quit smoking. But if you go home, you work all day. You go home, you have a nice uh hot bowl of countula and uh play play ball with the kids and everything and help them do their homework. And then at a certain point at the end of the night when the kids go to bed and it's time to pour yourself a scotch, then you go out in the patio and enjoy a cigarette, you don't have to quit. Yeah. Well, when you go in your den Oh, you want you don't want the smoke to be around your your kids. I was talking about beating off, but Yeah. Oh. I beat up on the patty is what I'm saying. It was a metaphor. So that's very good that you moderation and then you never got desensitized which is excellent because I got insanely desensitized and then uh I couldn't I can't watch it anymore with the porn. Yeah. It's just and also it's so misogynistic, you know, the titles like you were saying about desecration, the titles are always like dirty [ __ ] horror likes to be [ __ ] in the dirty ass and you're like whoa that's not the film I just watched. like uh so she it didn't seem to be her idea at all. I also find uh and then there's just a futon and a bright light and you're like how did they get her in here? A little too much spit going on for my for my my taste. Why is Yeah, I don't know why. And you know that this new generation is crazy. Getting sad. They're like choking. Yeah, this choking. Yeah. Now, I thought this was supposed to be a feminist like time. Like why would they want to be humiliated like that by men? Well, whenever things go too far one way, they swing back hard the other way. You know what I mean? So now we have safe spaces and cage fighting going on simultaneously. You're right. It's my theory about it's grunge. It's all the stupid hair bands with all the mascara and the aqua net sprayed on their head gave birth to Kurt Cobain in a in a tattered flannel shirt cuz we swung too far this way. We needed to go back the other way. That's how we are as human beings. Sure. Sure. So, what's going to follow for instance the feminism of uh comedy? Well, tell me about that. Well, I mean, every every uh I think women have pretty well taken over comedy, haven't they? Well, I think we enjoy celebrating women comedians probably more than we enjoy celebrating male comedians because it feels like progress. Right. Right. So like like Tina Fey is too big to fail. Like Yeah. Well, although she's I think of her as legitimately funny. Yeah, she's funny. Yeah. But I also feel like but she brought in she she ushered in a generation of Not as funny. Yeah. Well, I've gotten in trouble in the past for talking about Oh, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, cuz I was given a I was given a choice. Oh, you were? Who Who's funnier, men or women? So, I just said men cuz I don't like I don't like when people do the I really couldn't say it cuz I know a lot of funny guys. But, but then they didn't put the question in. No, not not really that way. It was more like Adam said women weren't funny. Now, I went on to say that Kathy Griffin and Sarah Silverman and I know plenty of I I said, you know, Kathy Griffin and Sarah Silverman would have been funnier than any guy in my high school. Right. But they kind of left that part out. Yeah. Yeah. So that's the way. But even Hitchens said it, right? He's supposed to be super smart. There's a there there is a kind of biological mandate, right? Which is if David Spade's trying to get his dick wet. Yeah. It's not incumbent on the 22-year-old blonde to make him laugh. We're going full circle here, Norm. But but if he wants to bang the 22-year-old, he's got to make somebody laugh, right? Yeah. So just biologically you're saying uh it it helps. Yeah, there's a little bit of a mandate. So why would the why would the women have a such a mandate? Yeah. Unless it's just a professional, pardon the pun. I'm going to become a comedian. You know, I really think that's a new thing. I'm going to become a comedian. Even that's a new thing I think right that in the old days it just people go what you want to do what you know they thought you were but also kind of in the old days we would decide if you became a comedian by whether we laughed or not. you you didn't get to just decide true car. Um, but it is force of will. You know what I mean? Like that's what accounts for your list, I think, is ambition and and my ranking of you not wouldn't it be work ethic? Well, there's work ethic. Yeah, there's work ethic certainly. And that wouldn't that propel the mediocre to Yeah, if you're not mediocre, but middling. I I learned what mediocre meant. But what I'm saying is is you who have a love of chocolate flavored cereal and putting probably not the hamster wheel of show business. What I'm saying is you probably could have made a little more money in your career. Oh yes. Yes. If you'd played by the rules and had a little more of a motor or even a driver's license to operate a motor. You know, I when I've had a project, I've worked very hard. But boy, I'm a bad collaborator. I'll tell you that. And when I look back, you are a bad collaborator. I should have just done that, you know. I should have just said, why are you a bad collaborator? I know because the the because the way the industry works in, let's say, a sitcom, and I never dreamed of being in a sitcom anyways, but you know, like the director will tell you to do it one way, you go, right? I don't want to do it. Seems pretty hacky that way. I This is what I had a director tell me once. He goes, "Trust me, do it my way. I've seen it work a thousand times." Right? I'm like, "That's the problem." Right. And uh so so I just pretend not to understand and just do it my way every time. And the guy goes, "No, no, I think I'm going to do it the different way." I go, "I did." He goes, "No, no, do it my way." I go, "Okay, I'll do it this time." And finally, he would get exhausted. But don't you feel like you and I could collaborate on something? Well, I was just thinking of that actually because I was looking at you and I was like, "Well, if everybody thinks we we're similar or whatever, we could play brothers." Yeah. Right. Because we even though we um people think uh but we're actually very different. Yes. Even though we're the same. So that would be like brothers. But maybe we could collaborate on Adam teaches Norm to drive. It's just a start. Just to start. Yeah. So people could see the chemistry. I'm a good teacher, Norm. No, I I trust you. And I think Okay. When do you want to do it? I we could start. We can get on the calendar for, you know, later this year. Okay. Come by your place. What What would it take you? You finish off your Fruity Pebbles. You Come on. You come down to the car. The car's loaded up with GoPros. And we just go around the block a few times. Well, now wait a second. Wouldn't the Are the GoPros going to obstruct my view of No. My blind spot. I know all that [ __ ] You first. You know about the blind spot. You have a blind spot. Everybody does. You have to [ __ ] look behind you. I don't even know why they have mirrors. Oh, no. Listen, I do these race cars. You get strapped in like an astronaut. You use all mirrors. You don't You can't even turn your head. Really? Oh, yeah. And uh why I saw Cannonball Run. Yeah. And [ __ ] Bert Reynolds is so cool, right? He's like, I don't care what's behind me. [ __ ] breaks off the [ __ ] mirror. Yeah. Rearview mirrors. That wasn't Bert Reynolds. I know. Who was that? How do you remember? It was the Italian guy driving the Ferrari Daytona. God damn it. You can pull that [ __ ] away with some of the gal spade is [ __ ] but it's not going to work on me. You're absolutely right. He's driving a He's driving a Daytona Spider and he says, "In Italy, what is behind us doesn't?" And he breaks the mirror off and throws it behind him. Can't believe you, Nor. Jesus. Norm, who are you hanging around with? All right, you answer your phone. Wait, what is that? Not my phone. Oh, it is. It's in my pocket. Sorry, guys. I'll tell you guys about DraftKings. Ah, DraftKings. You can step out. No, just step out. But one one minute. 80 seconds. 80 seconds. DraftKings. Where was I? DraftKings.com. Ah, you don't need to come in first place to get the cash. No, there's a player finished 800th in week 1's biggest fantasy football contest and took home a hundred bucks. Gary, how we hanging? Doing pretty well. I uh I beat up a little bit on Brian this week, which I was gratified about. And uh Kayn was doing surprisingly well for someone who doesn't really play sports that much. But uh Brian's back in it next week. We got uh we got a whole new draft coming up. That's the beauty of DraftKings. It can happen. This week, DraftKings is hosting another huge fantasy contest with over $1 million in total prizes up for grabs. DraftKings, the destination for one week fantasy football. No seasonl long commitments. Play whenever you want. Play with the players you want. It's DraftKings, man. It's a great experience. It's DraftKings Dawson. Don't wait. Get to draftkings.com now and choose your players for this weekend's contest. Enter promo code Adam and play for free with your first deposit. That's promo code Adam to play for free for your share of over $1 million in total prizes this weekend only at draftkings.com. draftkings.com eligibility restrictions may apply. See website for details. Gary, do you have that scene from Cannonball Run? We think we do. Okay. Is he driving a Daytona? I think so. All right, let's take a look. And now, my friend, the first rule of Italian driving. What's behind me is not important. That's it. He's somebody. Wait, that that was at the Gumball Rally. Oh, no. That was the next show. And I think that was a Kiss of the Spiderwoman guy. And who was with him? Who died way before his uh time? This guy. You're talking about the guy that's with the rearview mirror. Yeah. Kiss of the Spiderwoman. Yes. He became famous after this. All we know right now is that it's definitely not. That's all we know. But I think you're right. He's like doing a cheap like Italian accent and later he became like a great actor. Yeah. Yeah. And then and who was with him was later he died way too soon. Uh we had his name written down here Gary a second ago. I was guessing uh Joe Pentiliano went on but I I don't know. No he this guy was a became a hardcore famous actor who starred in Kiss of Spiderwoman. I think uh that'll that'll help. Riulia. R. Oh that was R. Julia. R Julia. That was him. Wow. And he must have died at like 53 or something like he died a while ago, but it was early. It was young and sort of sort of suddenly. We'll figure out his uh thing. Uh Roseanne had a talk show once. Mhm. And Joe Panleion was the guest. Mhm. And uh so she's introducing him. She goes, "You know this I can't I don't know his he has a whole bunch of credits, but you she goes, you know this, our next guest, a great actor. You know him from this and this and this. Please welcome Joe Panleion. She Joe Panone comes out. Rosanne goes, I know him. She knew the guy. Rald Julia died in '94. But I don't know how old he was. He was Wasn't that a terrible hacky performance, right? And then he became a fantastic a famous actor. And then he then he unexpectedly died. Oh, Nor before if I hadn't said Ralph Julie rather than Bert Reynolds. Yeah, we wouldn't have gone down. Then you wouldn't have you would have gone, "No." So, you just watch YouTube? I like YouTube a lot. And, you know, I watch I end up watching um the same thing that I've already seen on YouTube because I And you tweet a lot. Yeah. Sometimes I get obsessed a little bit with tweeting. This is what happened. One time I I called a game, you know, and then the next What kind of game? like a football game or something sports related because I would make predictions, you know, and then I'd call a game from the viewpoint of me and my point spread and so forth. So then uh and the next time there was a game or something, I would look on my notifications and people would go, "Hey, I met my mother-in-law is like eating a tomato sand, you know, whatever and I can't see the game face, you know. I'd love to see the game, you know." So this poor goddamn cuckled, you know? Uh, he couldn't watch the game, right? So, uh, I say, "Well, I'll be a man for you, you son of a [ __ ] You a headpacked bastard, right? And I'll I'll uh I'll tell you what happened. You just have to sneak a peek over there if your wife doesn't uh hit you with a cane or a or some sort of a sab bag, handbag, like Ruth Buzzy." Yeah, there used to be a lot of purse related assaults. Norm, I wouldn't be doing my job as a journalist. Well, I will do it. I'm not in a podcaster if if somebody tweeted me a few months ago and said that Norm fired his agent because he was going to go play the Kennedy Center and open up for Adam or some version of that. That was not true. People were tweeting me that and they thought and they kept saying, "Are you angry?" And I'd always go, "No, cuz I I like Norm and I have no idea what he's talking about." True at all. This is what happened. And first of all, I didn't fire my agent for that reason, but the journalist was there when I was talking to my agent. And what they did was they uh my agent phoned me and made it seem like because it wasn't very much money and my agent said, "But it's the Kennedy Center, you know, like it's a huge prestigious event, right?" So I was like, "Okay, I took it, you know, ah people will see me." And then uh I I I looked it up on the computer and there was a whole bunch of comedians, you know, like a like a whole week of comedians, right? And I wasn't opening for you. I was going on one show and then you were going on the next show. So I said, "Well, this is a a a comedy festival or something, right? And I'm not making any money. I don't want to do this." Yeah, I get. So it wasn't I'm I wasn't never opening for You didn't have an opening act. I don't uh No, I I the same thing happens. They go, you're playing the prestigious Kennedy Center and you're picturing up in the crowd. You're picturing like Hillary Clinton and Maya Angelo toasting you from up on stage. You'll be able to tell me what actually was. Well, I didn't make the gig. I didn't do the gig either. No, but then what they tell you later is they go the gig. Why didn't you do I had a race to do? Oh, so you blew off. I found out if Norm's not doing it. [ __ ] that. And then I look like I'm, you know, insulting you. That's why I don't listen to anybody. But the point is is I literally I I Yes. You find out it's a comedy bonanza and probably like a tertiary room in the Kennedy Center, you know. I'm sure it's not the main room. I I would have played one of those Mark Twain Award to No. Tina Fay. No. It'd be like Harry Bellafontes up there with a ribbon around his neck. No, it'd be like I'm playing the pavilion behind the place next to the valet. Look out. That's what I was assuming. Yeah, it did. Uh, how many does it hold? I don't know. How many folding chairs do we have? That would be the answer to the capacity. Uh, the fire marshall wouldn't care cuz there was no walls. Isn't that funny? You didn't even do the show. No. And then, you know, and then I'm look I look like I'm slandering you. I felt so bad about it when I read it. I'm like, "Oh, well, I didn't. It looks like I'm quitting because you know the idea of opening for first of all I would open for you. I would open for me too if it paid enough. I don't I mean you I know what listen I used to go in the south and I would do the guy would in front of me would go he'd be a big fat guy you know he'd destroy I'd go on they would yell at me and hate me. So the second night every time the owner would go how about you and the fat guy switch. I go same money. He go yeah fine switch. It makes a perfect sense. Uh, listen, I don't think what people I love opening. People don't really realize and and I think I speak for Norm here, whether it's the if if the Kennedy Center's paying 10 grand and you know, uh, Chief Wampam is is in Northern California is paying 15 grand. We'll just go there. Yes, of course. And get the paycheck. Yes. And at our age, are we really suddenly going to some prestige is going to be poured on us? You know, we'll always be bums. Yes, we're the bums of comedy. But when we That would be a good one. When we unite the bums of comedy together in the front, the bums of comedy. I'll do it. Who else could we get? Uh Arty Lang. Yeah. All right. You open for me and Arty? Sure. I'd open. Absolutely. I mean, I talked to Dennis Miller. I said cuz Dennis, you know, there's a guy with a bulletproof act and he says he does his old act, you know. Mhm. Which was just a killer joke. Killer joke. Killer joke. Yeah. And he opens for O'Reilly. So I'm like, how on earth does O'Reilly follow you? And he says O'Reilly just goes out and t wanders around the stage talk. Everybody loves him. And then if you get like um um the premium thing, you get to meet them. You get a lot you pay extra. You get a you get like a book sign. Yeah. So, it's 50 B, but that is 200 if you want to meet them. It's a huge difference. But then a guy was telling me um because you know I've done things I'm sure you've done things where you just have to stand there and a whole bunch of people come and you take a picture and then they leave. That's what they do. I thought they'd be you know have a half hour to talk to them and stuff. No. No. Just picture get out next hurry up. Yeah. No, it's like so I do that. I don't get that. Yeah. No, I did a show with Dennis and it was kind of the same thing. I said, "I'll open for you. I'll do a half hour. You do a half hour and then we'll both come out together and do like a Q&A." And he said, "Uh, you do 28 minutes and I'll do 28 minutes." And I was like, "All right." I didn't know what the difference between a half hour and 28 minutes was, but I said, "Uh, fine." He said 28 minutes. He literally got it that tight. Yeah. Wow. I don't know if he was just rubbing a little stink on me or he was really keeping it to 28, but uh either way, I said, "Uh, screw it. We'll do Now, how now how was your uh your you kind of did a like a like I guess you got the idea from O'Reilly and Miller, but you did the Dennis Prager thing, right? Yeah, I did. I did that. Dennis Prager. Dennis Prager and I just kind of go out together and do sort of an evening with and I do at the same time. Yeah. Oh, and I do the uh comedy part. Me and Drew used to do like Dr. Drew and you all over the country all the time. Oh, you did? Yeah. You did live performances, you and Dr. Drew. All every college campus that you've ever even heard of. I didn't know that. Oh. When we were on MTV, you would take people every time and we just go out there and do it every time. Yeah. So, instead of sexual questions, it would be political questions or anything with Dennis Prager. Yeah. Yeah. Real smart Jew. Yeah. Yeah. So, you he would he would answer and you would just sit there and boom, you'd throw in the jokes. Yeah. But I can get a little philosophy in every once in a while. Sure. Yeah. Sure. No, you're you're smarter than than everybody. Not everyone. Not than you, Nor. No, believe me. I just pretend. No, you're you are smarter. I just I I live smarter, but you're smarter. I don't think I'm smarter. I listen to you. Okay. I tell people I go, "This guy has an opinion on everything." But when I did stand up, I said that's that was my goal to have an opinion on every single or comedic take, I should say, on every single thing. Then I would go out in the audience. I I always thought and I would just talk to the audience and everything they said I would have something to say about it, right? You know what I mean? So, um I have I have quite a bit of you know I haven't done like 10 million specials so I have many many hours of material. So I I have a lot but I don't think I have as much as you. Like when I heard you were doing standup I started with Largo long time ago. I think you were just starting. Mhm. But you were kind of act trying to act like a comedian, you know what I mean? And I'm sure now you're you're way better. But I always thought, why doesn't he just talk to the audience and anybody that brings up anything, Adam would be able to uh riff on trying to think what I did at Largo. I did I did I know you were just starting cuz you told me I did Doug Benson's show. What the? No, that something else. Pretty soon. Doug's next show is going to be you come over and wash Doug's car. That's going to be his next Doug Benson interruption. I think he had the show uh he had the movie um Superh. So I and he had the show the television show where he I mean the computer show where he smokes weed with the people. So I assumed that he would be very good at holding his weed. Mhm. Then I see the show, he's like [ __ ] glassy eyed and like the worst advertisement for weed ever. I thought this guy Yeah. You know, and they're like just and saying unfunny things and just, you know. Yeah, you should. He's kind of got a lazy eye, too, which doesn't help. Yeah. You'd think uh great guy. Good people. Nice guy. He's got the guy he's got the 50-year-old who eats Count Choula. Robert Smiggle told me passing judgement at Reges Filman. He came up with the him or Dana, one of the two came up with this Regis impression and they said the key to the Regis impression was Regis would be playing to a morning show audience much old ladies. So his shtick would be getting angry, you know, but then he would have to tell the audience that he wasn't really angry because he was afraid they' take him seriously. So you go like Anyways, Bernardet Peters is in the back room and I have my donut with sprinkles and I always eat my doughnut with sprinkles and I come in and it's gone and they said Bernardet Peters ate your donut with sprinkles. Anyway, she's a wonderful lady and she's on Broadway and we speak of uh trail wonderful and shows. Uh Doug Benson and me are actually going to be he's going to come out to a live podcast. Oh, he's a great guy. That will be a really nice guy theater. That's a live podcast. October 8th, October 7th. Foxwoods Casino with the DFG, the deaf frack guy. Oh, really? He'll come out and say at Foxwoods. At Foxwood. Yeah. He lives He can get there, I guess. Anaheim and live shows everywhere. He lives in a place that celebrities live. Oh, really? Yeah. I thought he lived just in, you know, Ma I don't I think he's rich. I think maybe it's his father. Doesn't he dress like a like a guy that had money? You know what I mean? If you grew up with money, you dress. But that's an old that's an old thing. Now Mark Cuban wears flipflops and poor guys. Well, no, that's true. have fake jewelry. All right. And Norm's got a book. Who do you think won that debate, by the way? I think Hillary won out of she was per she a little Trump was sort of all over the the road. I think Trump probably scored in the okay, I guess he's not an insane person department, but Hillary seemed to be on point. It really is. I loved it at the end. He's almost like a child cuz he said like that's not nice. Like nice is so weird a word because that's not nice. And I have something to say. Normally you and then you could tell he was thinking he might say it. Yeah, he might. Well, you and I I you know what I felt like and and hold on with this show ending for a second just one second. Yeah, you and I, I think, both have been guilty of this and uh it's happened before. By the way, this is going to sound [ __ ] but I don't even know if Donald Trump would be a bad president. I don't either, but uh I do know I do know this. Um we don't like to rehearse that much. No. Okay. No. And and we feel like we can go out there and get it done without the repetition. Oh, absolutely. And we all know there's nothing worse than the mock trial or the mock debate or the you put mock in front of it or the repetition or what the the rehearsal. It always sucks. So you and I feel like we got enough in the tank that we can go out there, take the microphone and keep things going for 90 minutes. Well, don't you Trump Trump would think that too? That's what Trump thinks. Okay. Yeah. Right. Right. Now the problem is is Trump is not Nor McDonald. Trump. And the reality is is Nor McDonald pulls it off eight out of 10 times. But there's probably those two times where you wish where the fat guy went on after you or before you where you kind of wish maybe you had worked it out a little bit better. You know what I'm saying? I've had that experience myself. I feel like Trump now Hillary feels like like the Wes Welker of politicians. Like I am slow. I am short. I have I have no vertical. and what I need to do is run these routes over and over and over again and become the best possession receiver. So, she's probably spent the last month doing mock debates, going over every scenario, having an answer ready for every possible question and scenario. Whereas Trump went, "Yeah, I'm me. I'll get up on my feet. It'll start flowing too much. It'll look roast and I don't feel I don't feel like rehearsing. So, I'll just go over there. I'll eat some Kentucky Fried Chicken and I'll just go up there and I'll wing it. And during the debate, they'll wing it. It kind of with the with the chicken reference, it kind of did feel like, all right, Trump, nobody wants teleprompter and stilted and everything, but a a couple of dry runs probably would have helped the cause. Did you notice that it's a debate with two people on the same stage and the whole thing is split screen? Why would you think that? Yeah, that's weird. They didn't they didn't pull it. They didn't pull it back. I figured it out because of the whole corn syrup cane sugar thing. Height. Ah, they made her the same height as Interesting. So that's unfair. Not another conspir Not even a conspiracy theory. I mean, they have two people on the same stage and it's a split an odd split screen and the audience certainly seemed partisan. I I never hear Hillary Clinton getting laughs and Donald Trump getting none. Well, he got a couple he got a little roused at the beginning. Uh but other than that, and it was weird cuz he was at the end of the thing, he was going to yell, "Your husband's a rapist." But he he stifled himself. Oh man. He was like, "I guess I'll wait for the second. I'll wait for the second one." Cuz if his numbers drop, it's coming. Based on a true story memoir, Puliter Prize nominated. I don't even know how that works. Cobs Comedy Club in San Francisco coming up October 7th through the 9th. And then apologize for I know this is on television so I apologize in Las Vegas as well. Me live shows everywhere and we got a cruise coming up and it's all the good stuff. Just go to adamcarola.com and you can find out everything. Until next time. The bums of comedy. The bums of comedy. Adam teaches Norm how to drive. It's all good. Until next time, it's Adam Croll from Nor McDonald saying mahala. Yeah, it's a very very sweet introduction. That's almost uh I almost feel like we can't match that, can we? I can't. I can't. Um, so, thank you for coming here. You actually were scheduled to be in Washington DC earlier in the year, but you uh were unable to make it, right? Oh, yes, that's that's correct. Um, but so you had to write a book to get here, but we're we're obviously appreciative. Um, so I just to start out uh this book based on a true story, a memoir. Um, how would you describe that to people? Well, I don't know. It's hard to describe things, but that's what I learned when I tried to write a book. But, uh, I would just I don't know. It's uh you know I it's it's I I I decided to skip past facts and go for truth. That's helpful. So um uh so it's it's not totally true. That's what you're saying. No. No. I mean, when you look at your life, which uh writing an autobiography forces you to do, uh you start to understand that most of your life is um well, I found anyway. I wake up in the morning, I eat my count chocolate chula. Then I say, I got to get a ham and cheese sandwich for lunch. I'm thinking all the time, right? I say I got to get groceries and uh but this count chocolate has not digested yet. And then I go. So anyways, most of your life is finding and eating food, which doesn't make for a a great read. Yeah. You you didn't consider a cookbook. So I guess that's why cookbooks are so that's why cooking is so but but we would argue uh knowing what you've done uh in in your life professionally, the part we know about, it's been very interesting. You've uh mixed and worked with some of the most fascinating people in entertainment, right? Yeah. Well, here's the thing about backstage things. They're not interesting at all. Like, uh on the stage is what's the interesting part. And then backstage, it's just guys eating ham sandwiches. It's all eating. Yeah. and they're trying to figure out what to do on stage, you know, and they're saying, "Is there any way we could could work some eating of food into this sketch?" No, but you know, that's what show is on stage. And also most of the interesting things that have ever happened to me happened to me before I had any measure of fame because once you have fame, you're in a a bit of a cage uh against which uh you know like one time I got I think I told you I got in a Did I tell you about my fight in New York City? No, no, I have not heard about your fight in New York City. I used to fight all the time when I was in Canada before I was famous. Like a professional boxer or No, just fighting. I was not a prize fighter. I just wanted you to say prize fighter. Just in bars and so forth. And anyways, I was in a bar in New York City and I hit a guy and he went down. There's some broken glass and stuff and uh so that I was like, "Oh my god, I'm on the TV. I forgot cuz I was on the TV." Yeah. So I ran out of the bar and the guy said, "Hey, who are you anyway?" And I said, "Dana Carvey. Toyota. No, no, I thought you'd say Ben Fawn. That would have worked. So before the before I was famous, those things those interesting things happen to me all the time. But once you're famous, uh you know, your life is pretty uh pretty uninteresting after that. So you before you were famous, I spoke to your mother. I called her on the phone. Uh she said you were a very good student. Um but also she said uh you were sort of an adventurer. She talked about you living on a boat for a time and working in Now again, some of this is in your book, right? No, no, no, no. Because that's interesting. Nothing interesting. Yeah. Okay. Should appear in this book. But yeah, I was a bit of a I was a bit of a escape grace when I was what I'm sorry. Escape grace. Escape grace. Trouble maker. I'd never do well, you know. as I travel from place to place, cause havoc and move to the next town. Like a traveling sort of salesman who more like a criminal drifter. [Laughter] So you grew up in Canada, right? You started doing standup uh in what the Ottawa, Canada. Yeah. Yeah. And uh but just by accident, you know, I never knew there was such a thing as a person that could work in comedy. Like I thought, you know, I had seen the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson. We got it rarely in Canada, but we got it. And I thought there was like five comedians, you know, and they all had nice sweaters. Like, it's a nice sweater. Thanks. And um that's what I thought. And I didn't know that there was this subculture of comedians that traveled all around uh uh telling their uh you know rather unseammly jokes to you know drunk patrons and tried to hit on waitresses and and asked if all the food was free. So then when I found that out, I said, "That's great." Because uh before that, I only had jobs uh I only had manual labor jobs. And um like what what's a real job you did that you would call manual labor? Well, the cooler ones were like I was a chokerman for a logging company. And what? It's a person that puts the It doesn't matter. Okay. It's a thing where a goddamn tree can fall on you. Okay. All right. Fine. Every week. Okay. Hey, where was where's Pete? A tree fell on him. So, and we all made a lot of money. We made $17 an hour. And I remember um uh at one point I was

Talking to the dishwasher that everybody made fun of, old Sam. And uh, I said, "Sam, what, what do you make?" He's like, "$17 an hour." I'm like, "What?" So, everybody made $7 an hour. So, then I was like, "I want to be the dishwasher." It turned out there's a huge waiting list that included almost everyone in the logging camp that, you know, wanted to be a dishwasher because when you were washing dishes, the likelihood of a tree falling on you was highly diminished.

So, you um, you go to uh, you start doing comedy and, you know, what is interesting to me is we hear about this cocaine is not working. I just want to say, I mean, I don't really know about your personal life here, but I've been with you for hours and hours and hours. I'd say, what? We've been together. Yes. And I've never seen you take a single sip of alcohol, right? Yet I read the internets. Do you, do you go there? What's that? The internet. Do you see? Sure. Yeah. And uh, every time you do anything, people say, "Oh, he's drinking. The man's drinking again, right?" Yes, sir. And when I do stand up there, I go, "I don't drink." Haha. [Applause] "I don't drink." That's a laugh. That's rich. And I don't drink. You know, the only thing I do is uh, before every show, I eat a fistful of acid. [Music] And my doctor, who's a broken record, he's like, "Stop eating fistfuls of acid before your shows." I think it works. You know, the guy's a big purple dog. Well, that's a step to that. That was good. Yeah. I didn't know when to cut in, but I think I stayed out uh long enough.

So, um, you talk about it in the book how you, the key to how you were able to get yourself on to Saturday Night Live. I hate to jump ahead, but you're talking about comedy and um, you know, we have this sense there's this huge audition process and you have to trot out all these characters. Maybe you could tell us a little bit about how, how you found yourself on that show.

Well, there is an audition process and uh, which I didn't know about. I thought I had the job. That's what I was told by a fellow that worked there. So, I quit the job I had. I worked for the Roseanne program. Yeah. You were a writer on Roseanne first. So, uh, I, I and I was contractually obligated to her. So, I went to Rosanne and Tom and Tom said, "How you doing, buddy?" And I was like, "Pretty good." He was like, "So, what's going on?" That kind of stuff. So, uh, I also thought it'd be good to have him and Tarantino, like he's like, Tarantino's like uh. So anyways, that they were kind enough to allow me to uh to uh to go to Saturday Night Live, you know, which was very sweet of both of them. And so, uh, I left. I moved to New York City and uh, then this girl Marcy Klein said, "You know, tomorrow you have to meet with Lauren." And I'm like, "What's that all about?" She goes, "Well, that's the odd, you know, the the job interview and here I'd quit my job." Yeah. Had a good one. Yeah. So, I got really drunk, forgetting I had to go the next morning to do my job interview. And anyways, I went in and Lauren and I had a fine talk. You know, he was uh also from, he's also from Canada. Um, but he's a cosmopoly, you know, very cosm cosmopoly, a worldly person. Okay. Are you a [ __ ] writer? No, no, no. I don't know these words. I write a lot of stuff. Oxford English dictionary for Jeff. I write a lot of things online. He's a, he's a, he's a worldly man. Okay. And that we'd be comfortable with the king of England himself. Yeah. I know that's a little sexist comment, but here's the thing. I'm not. I come from the barren soils of the Ottawa Valley, you know, and that's where I was born. That's where I was born a hick. I'll die a hick. And uh, that's the way it is. So, uh, I didn't have anything to say. So, I just laughed at everything he said like I always do when I'm trying to get a job. And um, and then at the, and then all of a sudden out of the blue Lauren says to me, he says to me, he says, he says to me, he says, "That's a thing I wrote for Farley to do. I said, "What if you did a thing where it was just a guy who says uh, he says to me way too often." So Farley would do it really funny. And he goes, "I met this guy and he says to me, he says, he looks me right in the eye and he says to me, he says to me, he says to me, he says to me, he says to me." So anyways, Lauren said, "You have to go to the studio now and do two uh impressions and two characters." And at the time, I had zero impressions and zero characters. Like I could do impressions of like anybody Rich Little did, but I couldn't do anyone like, you know, the of the day. Anyone know? So, okar means I know that word. I'm a writer. So, uh, anyways, um, I had no way to to but then I, I thought when I was, you know, he said, you know, he said, "We'll be in touch." I knew I was in trouble, you know, and so I, I said, "Well, I do." And then I remembered when I was in uh kindergarten. Uh, and uh, I, I didn't get my homework done. I would present a teacher with a shiny red apple, right? Yeah. Because what would a, a teacher like better, the scribblings of a 5-year-old or eating a shiny red apple? Well, we've been over food, the subject of food. And, uh, teachers, you know, are highly underpaid, which I think is a sin. And a shiny red apple. It costs a, costs a pretty coin, you know. So then I says to myself, I says, I said, I says, "Is there a way with Lauren Michaels? Is there a way I could red apple?" And I'll tell you, Jeff, there's always a way. So in my back, I had a red apple. Not an actual red apple. Metaphorically. It would be perfect if I'd had an actual red apple. That's not how things work. But I had a close, a thing to a red apple in my back pocket. And I'm talking about my literal back pocket. Literal. Oh god, I love when people say that all the time. Don't you love that? I do. I put it in all my stories. They say literally constantly. I don't even care that they're saying it wrong. No, I just don't want to hear it every third word. I like you regardless as well, you know. So, uh, I took my red apple, which in this case was, uh, uh, six grams of government quality morphine. We. And we know what happens next. Yeah. I was in. Lauren Michaels, luckily for me, was a hopeless morphine addict. Um, Norm, so I think we're seeing uh, it's in the book. No, I just thought when you talk about bombshells, that's an example of what we'll find in this, in this. Oh, yes. I have bombshells. There's, you know, it's a tell-all, tell it's a. Well, it's not all. It's a, it's a tell-sub. Um, so we're seeing it a little bit in process here, but you know, obviously, uh, we watch you on, uh, late night shows. We hear you. I just heard you on Howard Stern. Uh, we watch you on your podcast. And what we find is suddenly we're sucked into the vortex of a nearly 9-minute joke that we have no idea how it emerged or where it will lead and what will happen with it, except that it will be very funny and we'll be trying to get everybody to listen to it the next day. How do you? Does that? Do you come saying, "Oh, I have a, I have a joke." You mean like a street joke? Like a real street joke? You mean like an actual joke? Well, like I mean like the moth joke or the or Dirty Johnny joke? Yeah. I didn't. I don't make up those jokes. They're just out there. Oh. Have you ever tried to make up a joke? Like no comic in the world can make up an actual joke. Like a guy walks into a bar and this happens. This takes. This is startling information. You didn't know that you thought? No. I thought you write. You come with these things written down on paper, right? No. No. You know, they call like a comedian's act jokes, but they haven't been jokes for years. You know, it's it changed with Alan King to observational comedy. You like talking about crab grass in your neighbor's [ __ ] yard or something. I don't care for K. Well, a lot of America is upset right now because there's a huge Alan King audience here. Oh, yes. Or maybe it's Larry King. Um, so, so you're you're dodging this a little bit. So these are old jokes you're stealing from Rich Little? No, Rich Little didn't tell jokes. No, but you like the moth joke, for instance. Colin Quinn told me that joke. And he said, you know, have you ever heard of the moth joke? Meaning it was a famous joke. And I said, no. And he said, "A moth goes into a podiatrist's office and he says, 'I have terrible problems, doctor.' And uh, I think I'm going mad. And the the podiatrist goes, 'Oh, well, that's too bad, Moth, but why come to me? I'm a podiatrist. You should be going to see a psychiatrist. Why did you come to my office?'" And the moth says, "Uh, because the light was on." [Applause] So that's a good joke. Yeah. But that's not your joke. That's not my joke. So I, so I was on the Conan O'Brien show and I was going to do one segment and at the end of the segment he said, "We'll be right back with Norm, more Norm." I'm like, "What the [ __ ]?" I'm like, I thought a guy was going to show new Christmas toys. So I said, um, I said, "I don't got nothing to say." And then I remember that Colin Quinn, he said, "Just talk." I remember that Colin Quinn joke and I, you know, which is about that, about a 20-second joke, you know. So I said, "How long is the segment?" hoping he'd say 20 seconds. And he said, "About 7 minutes." You know. So I made the joke seven minutes long. [Applause] I guess that's our answer, right? Um, Norm, we uh, one thing that's important is you have written this book and we do at books uh book events like this, we have people, the authors read. Oh, read from the book. Yeah. Um, so, uh, we would like you to read, read. Yeah. Read from the book. Yeah. All right. Um, and then we'll, we'll get, we can have more questions, convers. It's a great crowd. These people really appreciate you. You know, I know the history of the uh, how it turned from a place of the Lord to a CD nightclub and the Lord came back. It was a cool uh, it's a great story. It's a great story. You know, I love houses of worship. I uh, you know, I go to churches wherever I, because I travel a lot doing standup and churches and especially old churches are my favorite places to go and, you know, I'm, I'm a religious person, but I'm never preachy. You know what I mean? Yeah. You've gotten into discussions with people on the on on on Twitter when they will demand that you declare that you're an atheist or. Right. Yeah. People. It's very stylish to be atheist. And listen, I cannot stand preachy people. And the only thing I would say is you can't get into heaven without Jesus Christ. [Applause] Yeah. Now that's preachy. Yeah. So this uh church, this chapter you're going to read to us, it's called a tiny white coffin, right? It's called Tiny White Coffin because uh, at one time I saw a tiny white coffin and it struck me as as one of the saddest um images I'd ever seen. So anyways, the story is about this, this is just the end of the story, but at the start of the story, it's it's about a, a child. When you're a celebrity of any sort, people want things from you, especially terminally ill. [Applause] [Music] children. So anyways, there was a Make a Wish uh foundation and this child wanted me, he wanted to come to SNL, natural, and and watch me throughout the week and see how uh an idea became a sketch. So I said, "Okay, that, that's a wonderful idea." And uh, I talked to him at his bedside and I got everybody else to scram, you know, and uh, I was saying how, how touched I was that he, he wanted to do that. And then he said, "I don't want to do that. I just made that up. I haven't uh liked SNL since Bill Murray left." So I said, "What, what, what's what do you want me for?" He said, "Well, do you have your Canadian citizenship still?" And I said, "Yes, I'm Canadian, you know." And uh, he said, "Well, that helps my wish. My wish is to kill a baby seal." So we took him, you know, me and my buddy uh, we went to Gander, Newfoundland, where we uh, where we uh uh got the services of uh Edward Mcccleintoch, a cod fisherman, and he took us to the flow. And uh, we, we found the um, we, you know, the boy had a, an a terrible cough, you know, and uh, Edward Mcccleinto said, "He's not going to make it through the North Atlantic." And I said, "But his final wish." You know, but I worried about the boy, you know, so many pills, but we tried. I tried to entertain him. Uh, we would sit and we'd look, the sky is so beautiful and limitless when you get to the uh, these the super northern places and we'd look at the clouds, the boy and I, and we try to find figures in them, you know, like I go, "That cloud looks like a half-eaten pickle." The boy had not learned that life was about food yet. So he saw other things, you know. He would go, "Look, there is a man with a beard." And I'd say, "I don't see it." And he goes, "Right, see where the, that's his mouth and then that's his chin." I go, "Yes, it is a man with a beard." "Right, you are." And you know, and I go, "What about that one? It's an alligator." He go, "Instantly I see it's an alligator." So we both saw an alligator. And on it went. So, uh, finally, uh, we get to the, we hear the the. Was odd noise I'd never heard. And uh, Edward Mcccleintoch said, "Harp seal, baby harp." Uh, so he said, "Oh god, thank God." Cuz it was getting, we've been on the sea for a couple days and uh, we go and and uh, then you, we heard gunshots and uh, Edward Mcccleintoch said, "Damn punks from St. John's with their revolvers. That's not how you kill a seal." And we said, "Well, how do you kill it?" And he produced a, a rucksack. And out of the rucksack was this medieval looking sort of thing. It was called a hack. Hack. And uh, Edward Mcccleintoch gave instructions to the boy. And he said, he said, "A seal's skull is as thin as a shadow. By strike him with this hack directly above the eyes and watch as they go glassy." So the boy ran away. No, he didn't run away, man. He ran toward ran toward the harp seal. Toward the, toward the baby harp. And uh, and me and Edward Mcccleintoch and my buddies stood there and and he, you know, he had such strength suddenly, this this child. And he struck as hard as he could and the blood came out as it was so red with the white behind it, you know, just this fountain of blood and most of it hit the boy's uh face and went in his mouth. And it was almost like the life of the seal itself was transferring there to the child. And then me and my friend and Edward McClint, we just stood and watched this wicked miracle unfold. [Applause] And on our way back, we were all depressed and we couldn't get the image out of our mind except for the boy who sang gay songs. I gave him his pills and he threw them in the North Atlantic. He didn't want the pills. And we went back and a miracle had happened. The boy was free of his uh disease. It was like it was in the New York newspapers at the time. This was about 18 years ago. And uh, he, he, he, he got a small measure of fame for it. And he, he got to go to Gracie Mansion and he met the mayor and he was on the Donny program. Cured. Phil Donn program. Cured. Yeah. It was a. There were other, there were other people with him that have been cured and so forth. He didn't, he didn't. It was it remained a secret of how he was cured but, and it was barely mentioned a year later when he was struck by a city bus and [Applause] killed. So anyways, is that, that's so that's where we pick up the story. Yes, we pick up the story. Good. Cuz I thought that page would be too long to read. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, this is the, this is the, this is the boy had turned 10 years old only a few days before the accident. And now he lay in Strickland's funeral home in a tiny white coffin. When all the strangers had finished looking at him and sadly shaking their heads so that all present knew their feelings on the matter, his mother was left alone in the room with the tiny white coffin. Alone but for me. I lingered behind unseen while the funeral director shooed the others into a room with a sad-faced pastor who was preparing to speak. The mother stood and looked down into the tiny white coffin. Her posture, which had been rigid all morning, went slack at the shoulder and neck. Her hands remained clasped tightly in front of her. The boy was wearing a navy blue suit with a white shirt and a tie, but he still did not look like a man. I stayed quiet in the shadows so as not to disturb the moment. After a time had passed, the funeral director opened the door and quietly let the mother know that her time was up. As she turned to leave, she looked one last time into the tiny white coffin, and then she did a strange thing, a thing that I shall never forget. She straightened the knot on the boy's tie and looked to make sure that it was correct. I took in a fast, jagged gulp of air and slunk into the next room before she noticed me. There were cookies and an urn of coffee on a table in the room. The cookies were awful. None of the cookies contained jelly in the middle, which are widely considered to be the best funeral home cookies. Instead, there were only dry shortbreads. The coffee was black and there was no cream or milk, just packets of white yellow powder. When I poured the powder into the styrofoam cup of black bitter coffee, it just sat in a pile on the top. When I mixed the powder in using a black plastic stick, the coffee turned gray like dishwater. It got me pretty steamed. And I'm sure the rest of the people who had gathered felt the same way. [Applause] We all went into the adjoining room and took our seats. The tiny white coffin had been placed in the front of the room and the sad-faced pastor was standing beside it. The sad-faced pastor told us how the boy had not been an ordinary boy. He had been very special. He had been a brother and a son and a grandson and even a great grandson. I looked over and saw them sitting there, the young and the old and the older and the oldest. The sad-faced pastor told us that some things were very mysterious, but that there was a meaning behind everything, even something as tragic as this. He then asked if anyone had anything they would like to say about the boy. And people came up one at a time to speak about the boy. I decided to go up to speak, too, since I had experience in public speaking. Of course, I wasn't about to do my standup. That would be ridiculous. I pulled out the piece of paper with a speech I prepared. And then, just when I was about to read it, I suddenly changed my mind. "Folks," I said, "I have in my hand here a speech I wrote. A speech that's full of big fancy words, but I'm not going to read it." And I crumpled up my speech and threw it to the floor with contempt. You don't want to hear a bunch of fancy words. Many of them so fancy you wouldn't even understand them. Instead, I will speak from the heart. I have never done such a thing before, but I hear it could be quite effective. So, ladies and gentlemen, bereaved relatives, youngsters who have lost a brother or a sister or a friend, the guy in the sad-faced pastor costume, the lady sitting beside him. I figure it's his wife or something. And finally, of course, the guy hanging around at the door wearing a Carolina Panthers jacket. is clearly in the wrong room but has the grace to hang in there till the end. I thank you all for coming. I was proud to have known this boy and I was proud that his last wish in life was to see me do a sketch on the Saturday Night Live program. Although I cannot say I was all that surprised. I'm a very good sketch player, but this is not about me. I really shouldn't be making it about me, but this is the first time I've ever spoken from the heart. So, I beg your indulgence. I feel this speech will really start to get good very soon. But it didn't. And I realized something during the next 20 minutes. As my speech moved from one inane anecdote to another, none of them having anything to do with the boy. What I realized then was that some guys are very good at speaking from the heart and some guys just aren't. Doesn't mean one guy's better than the other. Just different. So, I was honest with the people. "Ladies and gentlemen," I said, "I apologize for this speech. For the last five or six minutes, I've been telling you about Gordy How. And I think we all know what an awful, awful mistake me speaking from the heart was. So, if I may ask your help, let's try to find that speech. You know, the one with the big fancy words that I threw away some minutes ago. It's got to be around here somewhere." "Here it is," a sweet old lady near the front said. "I read it and thought it was very good. Especially the part about how we can learn more from the children than they can learn from us." "Oh, excellent," I said. "I'm glad you like that part because it's the surprise ending." So, that shot says, "I'll just have to read it without the surprise ending." And there appears to be coffee spilled all over it. "Oh, yes," the sweet old lady said. "I spilled coffee all over the darn thing." Okay. Well, I can't make out any of the big fancy words now at all. But it's nobody's fault. I mean, in all fairness, part of it is my fault for crumpling it up and tossing it away so cavalierly. Hey, you know, I think cavalierly might have been one of the big fancy words in my speech. Also, it's partly the sweet old lady's fault for spilling so much coffee on the paper that not a single word can be made out. But we're not here to place blame. I will say this about the young boy in the tiny white coffin. Despite the doctor's dire predictions, the boy was too tough, too resolute, too courageous to let something as small as a deadly disease defeat him. No, the boy was made of stronger stuff than that. And it took much more to defeat him. It took a 3-ton municipal bus moving at 40 mph and driven by one Cecil Richard Anderson to defeat this boy. I heard the deepest of sobs and looked down to see a man wearing some sort of bus driver's uniform and being held up by two women. "If you cry, sir," I said, "then cry with envy and not pity, for the boy is in the clouds, and he is one with the clouds. It is we who are left who are reminded on this unacceptable day that life is swift and yet we are blind to its mighty splendor which can be found in the simplest of things. Things like a walk in the park, a conversation with a good friend, a deep rich coffee leavened with half cream and half milk and served in a sturdy mug. One with some heft and with it a delicious cookie that's white and has red jelly in the middle." "Thank you for listening and due to the solemnity of the occasion, I would ask you to hold your applause." From there, we all went to the graveyard. The day was bright and clean, and the cool autumn air filled my lungs and made me feel healthy. A time passed and then the hearse showed up. The pallbearers were all big then and they carried the tiny white coffin as if it was very heavy, although it could not have weighed more than 80 or 90 lbs. There was a small hole in the ground and some dirt beside it. We stood in a circle and a sad-faced pastor said some things in Latin and then we formed a line. The sun was directly overhead and made the tiny white coffin ever so bright. And I took a handful of dirt and flung it down on top. Then it was the next guy's turn. Afterward, I walked back alone down a long blacktop road and it was cold and in the sky there were white clouds and they all looked like white clouds and nothing else. [Music]

I saw that book for the first time on on your coffee table covered in. Knocked me out. That story. You, you, you're upset. Well, no. You know, something like that happened to me. But anyways, on we go. So, uh, there's one other thing I, I'd like you to read. Um, which is uh, I think a chapter that really struck me. Uh, I'm speaking, you know, totally genuinely. I read this chapter called the final chapter. Um, Oh, the final, the final chapter. It's called the final chapter. It's not the last chapter. Well, but it's called the final chapter, and it's not quite as uh, long and it's not a funny. I don't think it's funny, but that's. You don't always have to be funny. You know, we're in a house of worship. I know. We are. Um, but I love that chapter because I feel like. No, I was Jewish. You were? I am Jewish. Oh, you were? Yeah. I didn't know that. I. What happened? Two years. Well, I, I knew uh, a rabbi. I had many, many biblical questions when I was young and they were never answered by. I was Presbyterian. They were never answered by my my pastors and stuff. And then I met a, a fellow that was Jewish and he introduced me to his uh, to his rabbi. And so if I had a question then, like one time I had a question about the Lord's Prayer and I said there was a, a line in the Lord's Prayer that said, "Lead us not into temptation." And so I thought that it was without God's ability to lead us into temptation. And I asked the rabbi the question. I said, "How could God lead us into temptation? It doesn't make sense to me." And he said, "I'll get back to you." And then you converted. They study, you know, then. Yeah. I went to uh. So, can I set this chapter up briefly? Sure. Okay. So, what I love about this chapter is that it, to me, um, we talk, you talk about facts and truth and on and on, but this is a very true chapter to me for some reason, even though it was ghostwritten, right? Um, so, I would like you to read it for everybody. It wasn't really ghostwritten. Yeah. Um, okay. Was that what you were going to say? I, I wanted to say something better to be totally honest. I'm still kind of moved by. I mean, you read this tiny white coffin thing and we're all laughing and then you go, "Oh, that, that kind of happened." I mean, that's very uh, but, but what did you like about that? What, start again? Okay. I just find in that chapter it's so uh, rare for people to be so aware of their uh, place in life and so self-aware and to be actually able to. I was forced to. Yes. I was forced to during writing of an autobiography, which is, you know, it's your life. I was forced to ask myself questions and, and, and, you know, find out if I was uh, happy or unhappy or content or malcontent or. So anyways, this is what I came up with. Yeah, there is the way things are and then the way things appear and it is the way things appear even when false that is often the truest. If I am remembered, I will always be, if I am remembered, it will always be for my four years I spent at Saturday Night Live and maybe even more than that by the events surrounding my departure from that program. As long as SNL exists, then so do I. When people come to see me do standup, it is because somewhere in their memory, I live on SNL, dressed as a young Burt Reynolds, insisting Alex Trebek refer to me as Turd Ferguson. And they come to see me and I am old and fat and I don't mention SNL and I do my answering machine joke that always does well. And they are happily disappointed. And after the show, they stand beside me and take pictures the way you would with a donkey at the side of a [Applause] road. They tell me they are big fans and they don't care what their girlfriends say. [Applause] They understand me even though they know good and well that no one else does. I'm dry. They say the next time I come to their town, they do not show up. It can be difficult to define yourself by something that happened so long ago and is gone forever. It's like a fellow at the end of the bar telling no one in particular about the silver medal he won in high school track, the one he still wears around his neck. The only thing an old man can tell a young man is that it goes fast. Real fast. And if you're not careful, it's too late. Of course, the young man will never understand this truth. But looking back now, I can see that my life since SNL has been a full sprint, trying with all my might to outrun the wolves of irrelevancy snapping at my heels. But it has all been in vain, of course. They caught and devoured me years ago, but not completely. Lauren would see that. My foot would still make a vague imprint. Myself would still cast a faint shadow. And years later, I would write a book and not only write it, but be in it as well. I think a lot of people feel sorry for you if you are on SNL and emerge from the show anything less than a superstar. They assume you must be bitter, but it is impossible for me to be bitter. I'm, I've been lucky. If I had to sum up my whole life, I guess those are the words I would choose. All right. I've been lucky. When I was a boy, I was sure I'd never make it past Moose Creek, Ontario, Canada. But I've been all over this world, except for Europe, Asia, Australia, Africa, and South America. Oh, and Antarctica. But that's really splitting hairs. I mean, how many people have ever been to Antarctica? I never expected to be any more than a common laborer. And I would have considered myself lucky to have achieved that. But I was blessed with so much more. I'm a stand-up comedian and have been for over a quarter of a century. I performed thousands of hours from a small club in Ottawa, Ontario, all the way to a small club in Edmonton, Alberta. Sometimes I get big laughs and I think I'm the best standup in the whole world. And other times I bomb and I think I'm not even in the top five. [Music] Before I was famous, I had a whole bunch of jobs where all I needed was boots. People would look right past me in the street, or if they did look at me, it was with a mean look. But when I got famous, people would look at me and smile and wonder where they knew me from. If they flat out recognized me, they'd laugh and dance like they'd won a prize. And I'd just stand there and smile and feel warmth from their love. So, the fame made the world, which is a real cold place, a little less cold. And as for my gambling, it is true I lost it all a few times, but that's because I always took the long shot and I never came in. But I still have some time before I cross that river. And if you're at the table and you're rolling them bones and there's no money in playing it safe, you have to take all your chips and put them on double six and watch as every eye goes to you and then to those red dice doing their wild dance freezing time before finding the cruel green felt. I've been lucky. Beautiful chapter. Thank you for clapping. My makes it feel nice. Well, I think you can understand how everybody appreciates you here and and elsewhere. We actually have time for some questions and um, we'd love for you to uh, you apparently we have time for his questions, right? You know what? No questions. What? Or not him? No. Before the show, I said no questions from you. Oh, I didn't understand that. I, I was confused. Of course, I would love. That was a beautiful chapter, though. I just thank you for reading that because I know that you've only uh, you don't read that publicly, right? No, thank you. Um, so, uh, all right. So, uh, questions. Yeah. One of my, uh, favorite scenes in Dirty Work was you, Arty Lang, and Don Rickles in the movie theater. Can you tell us what it was like working with Don Rickles and filming that scene? Yeah. Can you hear me? Oh, yeah. Um, Don Rickles, he just don't give a [ __ ]. So, I couldn't tell how much it was an act, how much it wasn't. But, uh, his, uh, you know, Rick, I mean, uh, Frank Sinatra, who's one of his best friends, was ill at the time. He was on his deathbed. And by the way, don't buy deathbeds. So they're sure they're cheaper, but you know, at some point, you, some things you don't scrimp on. So anyways, uh, Mr. Sinatra was on his deathbed and uh, you know, was reportedly days from uh, from moving on. And so, uh, no one knew if we should ask Don how he was doing or bring it up or anything like that. And then I said, "Fuck it. I'll ask him." You know, so we were at lunch and I said, "Hey, uh, have you seen uh, Frank Sinatra lately?" And uh, he said, "Oh, yeah, it was a lot of fun. We were at a hospital and he was [Music] going like, great price, you know." So I said, "Well, well, how's he doing?" And he goes, uh, he goes, "Let me tell you something. He goes, this is what it's like visiting Frank. I, I put my head about an inch from his head and I go, 'I'm not Barbara,' was his wife. So, uh, I was like, 'This guy don't [ __ ] around.'" [Music] So, yeah, it was a lot of fun. A lot of fun working with, work with the great Don Rickles. Thank you for the question, Jeff. Yes, sir. Yeah. About your article in the Washington Post. Yeah. You wrote this guy uh Kent Alterman, president of Comedy Central. Yeah. Yeah. Why did you let him mock Norm? Mock him? What do you mean? He goes, "How is Norm McDonald not on the air? He's the president." Yeah. What? Uh, well, that doesn't. I, I don't have the authority to make him put him on the air. I. You better explain to the folks what, what he's referring to. Oh. Uh, well, in the article that we wrote, a profile, um, was we. It's a team effort. I, I have a ghostwriter. I thought you. Um, well, a friend, uh, very talented. Uh, so the article I wrote, I called the head of Comedy Central because I know he's a fan of Norm's and said, um, you know, "What do you think of Norm?" And he said the quote that you said. He said, "It's a crime that he's not not on the air." Okay. Now, technically, he has some, actually has some room on the air. Right. President of Comedy. Yeah, he's, he's a president. If only I knew some. Yeah, right. [Applause] to undo this. In just the other thing, all the TV executives say to you, and I love uh TV executives, they say, "You just got to let Norm be Norm." And then you ask Norm or them about the show that he did and they explain how they would not let him be Norm because it would never work. Yeah, but uh, yeah, Seth Myers had a show. Alan King was on TV. Listen, I'm saying if Norm McDonald was a member of the tribe, he'd be on TV. Are you speaking English? Speaking who's Marty? Did he say Marty Keane? I believe it was uh, I believe it was something about Jews running Hollywood. I'm not sure. I've seen Adam Me throw his tunic in your face out of the pocket. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Oh my gosh. Yeah, he, it's like he was, he could throw, he threw his voice almost. It was almost like it was coming from somewhere else. I'm a big fan of incoherence. Um, over here. I know that standup is very personal for the most part. Um, standup is standup. Yes. How, how different is it for you touring, talking about you specifically? I'm sorry. Can you say that one more time? How, how different uh, is it for you going around talking about this book, talking about you specifically versus your take on things? Yeah. No, it's very difficult. It's not fun. You know, it's a little tough cuz I grew up in a family not unlike a lot of families of my time where, you know, feelings were not uh uh, you know, meant to be expressed. Um, or else your dad would call you [Music] gay. My dad never called me gay, but he could call me a girl. Yeah. And, uh, so, uh, it's still hard for me, but yeah, this is much more personal, way more personal than my standup comedy. And, you know, we, we didn't hit on a lot of the book. That's incredibly uh, personal, you know. But yeah, a lot different. A lot different. A lot different. Thank you. Thanks for the question, Nor. First of all, thanks for doing this. This is very cool for your fans to come see you in a setting like this. Oh, that's nice. This is great. Um, but it's, it's you and the rest of these people that should be thanked for coming. So, I. Well, I appreciate it and psyched about the book. Glad you got the podcast going again. I had one question. I, I love and I think everyone here does as well, seeing you when you were on the late night shows and the last Letterman show that you did, your routine, your routine there, which I still have on my DVR. Is there a story you can share about either leading up to that and your feelings about it or in the aftermath since? Because in addition to being very funny, which it was, and you always are, it was obviously very emotional as well. I thought maybe there's something you could share. Uh, yeah. Well, I had already appeared what I thought was my last time four weeks earlier and I did panel. You know, I had not done standup on the show for a decade or so. So, I thought that was my last one. And then Mr. Letterman phoned me and said that he would like me to be the last standup. And then we laughed together at how mad Jerry Seinfeld would be. Um, so I worked very, very hard on making it because everybody was acting so cool about Letterman leaving. And I didn't think it was cool. I was saddened by it, you know, and because he just meant so much to me, not only personally, my career, but I just think he changed the whole culture and the way people speak and so forth. And I think it was very, very important person in uh society. So I didn't feel cool or ironic about it at all. And so I wanted to first of all do as funny a set as I possibly could. So I worked very, very hard on it. And then I remembered uh when I first ever saw him ever, which was in a a Toronto television show called 90 Minutes Live, host with Pureoski, where the guests were Ricky Jay and David Letterman. And David Letterman did this joke and I remembered the joke and I loved the joke and I told all my friends. So on the show, I did the joke. Then I was overtaken by something. It was hard to get through the joke. And then uh I had hadn't planned this or anything, but I thought I'd say goodbye to David Letterman because nobody else was doing it, you know, and I felt someone had to say goodbye to him for goodness sakes. So, uh, so yeah, then when I said goodbye to him, uh, I got really sad. No, that, that was that was a a great moment and obviously very heartfelt and, um, again, thanks for doing this, man. Oh, you bet. Thank you for the question. Uh, I just want to say thank you for all of your work that you've done and all the work that you're hopefully going to do going forward. Um, I love the uh, the just relax for laughs thing you did way back and and the ESPN award has your shirt on a long time ago. Uh, I just wanted, I just wanted to know, um, when you were writing the book and having trouble writing the book, did you find any strength or solace uh, in knowing that if that lazy Arty Lang can write a book that you could do? Uh, well, I, I did uh, find solace in the fact that writing a celebrity memoir was, you know, you'd have to go to a [ __ ] limbo place to find a lower bar, you know. [Music] So, so I didn't think uh, I didn't think it would be that difficult, you know. Thank you. Thank you for the question, P. Thanks for buying that t-shirt. All right, we've got nine more minutes of questions. I want to keep this right cuz everybody wants to get their books signed. Yeah. All right. Um, go. Hello, Norman. I'll just start by saying the same thing everybody else has said. Thank you for coming out here. Uh, on a personal note, you more than probably anybody shaped my sort of comic sensibility when I was growing up. I sort of idolize you. Um, I'm an old man. Yeah, he's he's 53. A [ __ ] bald guy. I don't know what to say, but that's very nice of you. Thank you. My younger brother and I when we were young, we got a video camera and we recreated your the the David Letterman sketch from SNL where you said, "You got any gum?" And two years ago when my boss uh retired, I giving you credit of course, I lifted your Bob Saget roast routine wholesale and applied it to her, removing some of the more questionable things. Did that work? It did. It actually killed it. It did really, really well. I asked cuz it didn't work for me. Uh, but my question is, um, you're one of the more, one of the most kind of like literate comedians out there. You can, especially with the book, I'm almost pretty much done reading it. And you can turn a phrase more than in in ways that are more unique than anybody I've really read. And at the same time, you can have things, you know, where like you talk about dead hookers in the trunk and Dirty Work. How do you find yourself able to sort of um move between those two modes of comedy where you do sort of like hyper literate uh really turns of phrases and then sort of the more stuff that was in like Dirty Work? Um, I think Dirty Work was very literate. But where do you learn these fancy words and these interesting ways of turning the phrase? I think that's what he was trying to say before. I don't know. Well, you read a lot. I read a lot. Like I.

am, as you know, completely uneducated. I dropped out of self-educated school when I was a boy. But you can't teach yourself. Makes no [ __ ] sense.

I've always heard that, you know, like that guy's street smart. He might not know about Newton or Einstein, but he knows about a fell name of Bob. But you read a lot still. Yes, I do read a lot. I think, you know, to I wish I was educated so I could write a book properly, but I read an enormous amount and uh I'm sort of obsessed with reading, so I think that helped a lot, you know. Thank you. Thank you so much.

Uh, hey Norm, as a as a sports fan, I was wondering if you caught the ESPN OJ documentary and if that changed any of your opinions. Maybe maybe you thought OJ was now more of a murderer cuz you were a huge supporter of OJ. Did [Applause] I when no one else would speak on his behalf? You Well, that's the only time I ever did. Uh cuz you know I I I I try to have make comedy with no agenda and I hate political comedians and political com. I try to make just pure comedy but that was the only time that I felt moral outrage and righteous indignation over over what was happening and uh and it slithered its way into the jokes. Slithered. I like that.

Um, so did you watch the uh either of the Yeah, I watched both the 30 for30 and the John Travolta vehicle that was acclaimed. It was was claimed at I think so. Yeah, the John Travolta one. Yeah, David Schwmer. Yeah, David Schwmer. You know what I liked about that is like they go David Schmer played uh what was his name? Kardashian. Rob Kardashian. And so it would open and uh it would be him with his two daughters and they'd go, "Hey, daddy, you were recognized today." Go, "Well, let me tell you something about fame, children." Fame is [Laughter] fleeting. And so anytime the story flagged a little, they go, "Hey, where's the where is the Chloe man?" these children running with.

All right, two more questions. Uh, I'm curious what Oh, you want more? No, I feel sorry for the I feel bad for them, too. But it's your event, but but you know, the people need all signing and stuff and Yeah. Three more. Three more questions. Right now, there's seven people. How about seven questions? Yeah. All right. If that's what they say. Eight. How about eight more questions? All right. Slow down. All right. No more. Nobody else in the line. It's like the ice cream truck. The man is going to drive away. Okay. I saw a lady. There was There has been a lady. But make them tight. Tight questions. Okay, great.

Uh, what was your father's favorite joke? My father's favorite joke? Y Well, he had a joke u uh roses are gray, violets are gray, tulips are gray because I am a dog. [Music] Thank you. That was close. That was bad. Yeah.

Um, uh, it's like a lightning round. Hi, Norm. You're not going to be here next week, so in advance to both you and Jeff, uh, Leantova, may you have a sweet new year. Um, my question is maybe a little just a little closer. We Sure. Sure. Um, my question is to the English language. [Laughter] No, I'm sorry. We What's wrong with you? He's a nice We had trouble understanding. Yeah. Oh, no. For sure.

Um, so along the OJ lines, um, did you ever end up actually meeting anyone related to the trial or anything like that? Did you ever meet anyone related to the trial? Related to the trial. Yeah. Or, um, and if you didn't, then could you answer uh or could you finish your anecdote that you were um unceremoniously interrupted with the uh leaning into temptation? I did, so I don't have to do that anecdote. Oh, fantastic. I I did uh Yes. One day I was doing the program, the Saturday live program, and they said Arthl Simpson, somebody like that. Yeah. Is in the audience. And we had an OJ joke. Yeah. And the the the poor daughter uh was in the crowd, you know, seems like a bad place to be. Yeah. You know, was so very tough. I I said, "Can I really do this joke?" I said, "Sure, why not?" Thank you. Okay. Yeah. Hopefully that answers your question fully.

So, uh, on weekend update when you anchored, uh, Frank Stallone was often a punchline. Did he know it was coming or did you ever talk to him after? But I talked to his brother, Sylvester Stallone, who hosted the show, and he was like, "What the [ __ ] with Frank?" you know. [Music] So, so I said, you know, it's a complete nonsequator. It's it's ridiculous, you know. And so he told me, you know, he says the thing with Frank is, you know, after Rocky, he decided to become a boxer. So, you know, he'd go in the ring with say the say like the the Italian stallion's brother. He goes, "Every boxer in Philadelphia just beat the [ __ ] out of him." He goes, "You never been right since and I feel guilty about it." He said, "If you could just lay off him for a while." And I was like, "No problem." So, I never did another job.

Um, I know some comedians have described uh themselves as being not terribly happy people off the stage, but finding doing standup to be a pretty therapeutic experience. Do you view it that way, or what's the importance of performing standup to you personally? Um, and no, I'm I'm not sad at all off stage. Um, is is comedy Let me Let me rephrase that. Do you find that comedy is a catharsis for your meaningless existence? [Music] Is that better? Sorry. I uh Yeah, I know. There's this idea. What's that story about [Music] uh you know the guy goes to the psychiatrist I'm very depressed you know remember that story and you must see paglia I tell all my uh patients and uh no matter how depressed they are they go and they see pagan and then they are happy afterwards and the guy says I am pagan So anyways, I'm nowhere near as funny as Paglia. I never I don't mean to I don't want anyone to infer that but um no I'm happy and I no I don't find stand up as much uh uh therapy as I know I know a lot of people do but um but um I don't know how what I find stand up really it makes me happy when I'm out there and then immediately when I leave I'm a little bit sad I guess and uh So that's helpful. Answers have to be good. Well, I mean, we're as we're seeing. No. No. Yeah. Uh, yes. St me on that one. That was good, though. Yeah, that's right. Uh, no. Some would come out. Sometimes I begin a sentence hoping that the the end of the sentence will It sometimes works out for you.

Yeah. Hi. Hi, Nor. Thank you for being here. It's Thank you for dressing so well. Great. Uh, so my question, you're in Washington DC, so my question is, you uh hosted the White House correspondence dinner two years ago. Uh, any reaction to that? Any stories about that? Anything uh you'd like to share? Well, they always have a a a funny guest at the correspondence center, you know, uh somebody in the news in some way. It'll be, you know, Monica Lewinsky or, you know what I mean? They'll they'll have a they'll invite a And this year that I did it, they invited Larry Flint, the hardcore pornographer. So I met him, you know, he was in his wheelchair with his funny way of talking and uh you never feel fully comfortable around people unless you're a very good person, you know. I mean good like Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Yeah. So anyways, he says to me, he says to me, He says, "Uh, if you ever come to Hardware, you come, I'll take care of you." So, I said, "You'll take care of me." So, then, like, in my head, I was like, "What the [ __ ] does it mean to be taken care of by Larry Flint?" Because, you know, like, if my aunt Ida said, you know, you know, come to come down to Manitoba and I'll take care of you. That would mean she would make a nice strawberry rhubarb pie and and we'd we'd talk, you know, but Larry Flint, I imagine it would include me and a couple of ladies and then uh him uh showing up in a wheelchair. Don't ever do Never do that. Not Not in Not here. This is a nightclub.

All right. Uh, that's good. All right, let's let's shuffle through these quite. Yes. All right. One of your lesser known, but my one of my favorite things you've ever done is a commercial you did for the Mang Great. Ah, God. That that's an online only thing. Don't you think? It's got like hundred thousand maybe a couple million views. And I just want to know, did they ever come around to your interpretation of their ad in their product? No. Well, what he's referring to is I have I have this podcast that you know I do this podcast I don't make any money off it and then they're like do this commercial. I'm like [ __ ] I don't even make any money. And uh so there was this goddamn thing called a man grace and it weighed like 100 lbs. It was supposed to be some sort of cooking device for steak and I had to read all this thing and I couldn't even lift it. And I was like sweating it and talk about what it was. And then I I don't know. I guess it gets it gets very colorful. Like what gets very colorful. It gets very colorful. Yeah. And I'm not going to say what I what I said here in a house of worship. [Music] But no, they never came around to seeing the uh that sponsorship ended. That sponsorship ended uh without amicability. Okay, thank you.

Uh, two more. So, about 20 years ago, Yes, sir. you and Courtney Thorne Smith were on Conan on the same night. Did anyone on stage that night know that you were going to take over her interview? And if any of them did not, what was it like afterwards? It wasn't It wasn't what it was like. What he was referring to is a I was the first guest and then Courtney Thornne Smith came on who was on Melrose Place and decided to leave Melrose Place to co-star in a movie with with Keratop. So chairman of the board, right? Chairman of the board and so it stunned me, you know, I said would anyone and uh so I was like, "Wait a minute, you left. Wait, wait, what?" You know, I couldn't figure it out. And uh a as as it pertains to what happened afterwards, it's not what happened directly afterwards. It is that when I did it, there were no computers. And so, uh I did not know that it would live on forever. Back then, you would just say things, people in general vicinity would hear them and and then they would forget them. Uh but but now uh u I really have to uh I really have to make that phone call to Kerata. The [ __ ] is ripped too. Yeah, I know. Thank you.

All right. Thank you. And last question and then I know that's why I came up here. I was like it's all guys. It's about time I say. Seriously. Um, so I opened your book and I saw Slash's name in there and so I was wondering Oh, Slash. Yeah. Yeah. So I was wondering when you write about other famous people, do you have to get their permission first or is it just like whatever? Well, you do have to get their permission uh normally. But um but um my book editor Joe Veltry is right there. Stand up, Joe. Is he standing up? Stand up. That's not standing up. Why would There he is. Yeah. Joe Valtry had a a a great great uh strategy, which was uh that we would not need permission as long as we made something so outlandishly insane that the actual true things, you know. So, for instance, if somebody came and said, "Hey, wait a minute. I I never did that. I never would do anything like that. I could say, "What are you talking about? The devil's in the book." You know what I mean? Like, it's just a big crazy book. And then he'd go, "But I really did it." And I go, "Yeah, I know. But I won't stand up in court. Joe Veltry will tell you so himself. Thank you." And they'd be scared cuz they'd hear the name Joe Veltry. Nobody wants to hear that name in the world of publishing. He's an agent and an attorney. He is. Yeah. He's an agent and an attorney. Thank you. Did that better? You got a joke for that? No, I I don't. You don't? No. You see how hard it is? Yeah. I I thank you for the final question.

Yeah, we got through that. I mean, it's a little later than they told me it was supposed to be, but look, um, thank you all for coming. Uh, we're just so lucky to have Norm in this setting. I hope we get him back sometime soon. Right. And you're going to sign sign the books, right? Yeah. Sign books. Yeah. If anybody wants their books signed, why that would be fine and good. Thank you guys. All right. Thanks. I feel that. Does this work? Does this sound? Yeah, we uh Doesn't sound like much. I know it doesn't sound like much because we're like cans. No, I don't get cans. No, no cans for you. God damn. this. Now, you don't work with cans on your head. You don't know what cans mean. No, of course. But well, explain to the folks. You would call them headphones, but in the 1950s radio, we called them cans. Uh Nor McDonald has a show that premieres uh on Netflix Friday, September 14th, and I know you're out doing some publicity. Were you able to get any? Was anybody paying attention to what's going on here? Run, run, run, run.

Well, isn't it always funny when whoever it is ends up in the barrel for a little while? I mean, when it's not you, it's always really, really interesting that suddenly the press is paying attention to you. You know, it's You mean that's a good thing? Yes. Well, I I wonder do you think do you view it as a good thing or No, I I've never believed that all press is good press thing because um of Hitler. I feel it hurt I feel it hurt his career. You know what the thing is like with everybody it worked for a while. You know what I mean? For a while like people like, "Hey, I'm hearing a lot about you, Hitler." And then uh then it turns bad, you know? But it always does turn bad at some point. No matter who the the person is, everybody, you know, has to be that that guy for a while, I suppose. You're saying I'm that guy. You're that guy for, you know, for at least a couple days and it'll go away. But you have to today with social media be in lock step with the mob. That's the thing. You know, you're saying that's a good thing. No, it's the only way to survive. you're like uh we're analopes in the jungle and you just want to move find out where the lion is that's you know and move in the other direction.

Well uh what do you feel Ron? Um um the conventional wisdom always used to be if you do something wrong then you uh apologize, you show contrition and the public forgives you. Now that's out the window, right? And now, uh, Trump said it to his friend apparently the other day, "Deny, deny, deny." So the people who've done bad things, um, just deny it. And that's their own. And I don't think that's a good idea, right? You know what I mean? Um, by the way, I never did anything bad. That's the perfect angle to have. And I'm as outraged as everyone else. And let's keep moving along. Yeah.

Well, you know what's really funny funny about this? I've seen a couple episodes. They sent me a couple episodes of your show. It's the exact opposite of controversial. It's a really funny uh sweet show. You're on there. I I watched the Jane Fonda one. The probably the most controversial person of our lifetime. Sure. And yet it was just a fun sweet half hour. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not, you know, I'm not interested in Yeah. That's the funny thing is that I'm I have no interest in politics or you know I'm just a clown. You know what I'm saying? And what I think happened was um um John Stewart, you know, who was a great friend of mine and still is wonderful comedian, you know, fantastic comedian and uh became uh uh a political figure of not inconsiderable weight in this country for the good, I think, you know. But he was a very uh peculiar, you know, he's had a massive intellect, you know, strong viewpoint, wellinformed and funny. Hard to find those, you know, and uh he had a fantastic show, but what he spawned sometimes original geniuses spawn a bunch of [ __ ] [ __ ] Right. Right. And so suddenly every talk show had to be every talk show host had to be a political pundit you know and uh the last time I did um the Jimmy Fallon show Donald Trump was the host and I was a guest rather and Jimmy must up his hair Jimmy Fallon right and I remember we were watching from backstage and we're like oh didn't think of it and then it was a big thing how dare Jimmy Fallon mus up as if Jimmy Fallon is Tim Russert or Yeah, it's not it's not a not a timely reference since he died 15 years ago, but he's no Douglas Edwards. So, uh uh I said, "Well, that's Jimmy. It's absurd, you know." Yeah. And you know, and I I didn't watch Johnny Carson. when I was too young. But I don't think Johnny Carson addressed Vietnam or or Watergate, you know, things way bigger than than nowadays. But that that's the way comedy has turned. So, uh, and it's fine, you know, but I'm just but I'm no good at it because I don't know anything about politics. And so, yeah, it is a little ironic. I don't like using the word ironic because it turns out I always use it wrong. Sure. Yeah. But uh but uh you know we you know I Ted Sandis who's the head of the Netflix and became a friend of mine in the unlikeliest of ways but uh I talk to him all the time about the show and uh I said Ted I want to give you a show that people can watch 10 years from now. You know I really and I do that my specials also. You know, I don't do very many specials, but I want them to be about themes that will live on and and you know, I don't want to make [ __ ] Murphy Brown and, you know, because those Dan Quail jokes. Yeah. Not so funny. Although, she's back now. She's back now. Yes. And I think it'll work because now uh sitcoms have turned into this uh you know when I was a kid a sitcom would have once in a while a very special episode of family to ties. Everybody make jokes about it and now a sitcom every [ __ ] episode is special. Yeah. Very Yeah. Anybody could die at any time that you're on TV. No one is spending their money if they're on a TV show.

Um, it's like Lenny Clark, I remember. He got the show Lenny. Yeah. Funniest [ __ ] You know, Lenny. And we were at the Montreal Comedy Festival. I met him. And everybody had their five minutes and going up on stage trying to get the perfect five minutes. And meanwhile, none of the agents or managers were there. They were all at strip clubs. [Laughter] And so then at night, everybody say at the Delta Hotel and Lenny Clark would just be running around the room, you know, grabbing the telephone going, "Hey, it's the president of show business. He wants to talk to you over here." And then he got the show. Yeah. But his agent told him to buy a giant house, you know, cuz So he bought this big [ __ ] giant house. And uh he uh he told me he he got uh he paid two uh what do you call it? Mortgage. Yeah. That's how well I'm doing. He b he paid two months of his mortgage and then he had to sell his house. Yeah. But he's a good guy. Lenny Clark. God damn. I just seen you seen him. You know, I haven't seen him in a while, but yeah, he's one of the best He was like Yeah. one of the best just naturally funny guys, right? But I saw him, he was dressed real nice. I said, "God damn, you look good. You lost weight and shit." He goes, "I married Rich."

Uh, Nor McDonald. I like you, by the way, a lot. Thank you very much. Your show. I've always been a fan. Uh, Nor McDonald has I don't know if you remember meeting me or not, but go ahead. No, I don't remember meeting you. Okay. Where it was at the Boston Catch a Rising Star. Yeah. Oh, I'm sorry. the New York catering star. My apologies, but go back to your paper. No, no, no. I just suddenly is everybody impressed that I don't remember meeting Norm. They were like, "Hey, by the way, this is his paper." Yeah, that's the whole thing. The The same guy who set up the sound for this room gave me this paper. I'm going to bring this up though because, you know, now we're ball busting a little bit. When you had Jane Fonda on and you have your little blue cards. Yeah. Yeah. You had a little shake going. You were a little You were a little nervous. I get nervous as a mother. Do you really? Oh, [ __ ] I was really really surprised to see that. So, you're a giant fan of of hers. Yeah. You know how it is is like anybody that was a celebrity before I got in show business? Exactly. Right. I'm f Oh, I can't believe it. Yeah. And then anybody since they could be the biggest star in the world, I go, "What the [ __ ] do I get?" That is 100% true. I've had that experience so many times here.

But I talked to OJ one time. He's like and he said uh he said, you know, they're still the haters. Yeah. But he said 99% of people love the juice. Yeah. Yeah. And I I was thinking he's not lying. Yeah. He's not lying cuz uh you know, you think if you saw the juice, maybe you think I know I wouldn't that you go up to him. Yeah. You murderer. You people don't do that. No. You know that takes a special type of person. Uh what you do is like selfie. Yeah. So in his head he thinks everybody likes him. Yeah. Well I was you know obviously when he played football he was unbelievable and then I didn't follow much after that. So yeah I didn't I didn't keep up with the news. When you're asked you say the only thing he's guilty of is being the best running back in history of the NFL as far as I know.

Uh, Adam is here with you today. Adam Eaggan, my trusty sidekick. He is your sidekick. And Adam, here's Mike. Your part of the desk is just a little lower than everyone else. Oh, sorry. That was a very nice touch. Yeah, the kids table. So, how have you felt about the last week of publicity? Have you I mean, you're inside and outside at the same time. Oh, you mean you mean the last day of publicity? Uh yeah, you know, it was it's I I think that that Nor we, you know, Norm just did stern and I think uh he he said everything he he needed to say and that he truly believes and feels and and all the the people that are close to him know, you know, that he he just doesn't have the capacity to to to feel certain ways that I'm I'm hearing um conveyed on on Twitter and and some other places. And I I think that uh Norm really did a great job. You did a great job clearing the air today. I never got into comedy to to hurt anyone's feelings. And sometimes people go at a show, they'll go, "Please attack my brother. Make him feel like a piece of shit." You know, cuz it's his wedding day. And I go, I don't really like to do that. And uh and then one time I did this roast for Bob Sagen. became a sort of a thing because uh because I didn't do rose jokes because I I don't like insulting people, you know, and I certainly never got into show businesses to ever hurt anybody. And it just made me really really sad when this uh when this thing happened uh where you're just ask question after question after question. And then I I I guess I slipped up and maybe said something that that people took wrong, but you know, I apologize to them and uh you know, it's the last last reason I want to be on this earth. Sure. Sure.

And you know, uh, this kind of backlash happens so fast now because of social media. And you know, Adam, I know you've been involved with the comedy store for a long time, but when Louie jumped up at the Comedy seller the other night, a couple weeks ago, the seller's taking a lot of heat from people who were not necessarily customers, you know, people on, you know, the other side of the country or whatever. And we didn't, you know, we never had that kind of thing happen before. No. Well, I'll tell you this, and I did not know this, and maybe you do. Canadians have gone up against Louisie. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, I was talking to some Canadians have said he this guy should not be able to ever perform again. Yeah. I mean, I tal You know, they all come, you know, if you're a murderer. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. But if you're a murderer, you go to jail and they let you off whatever 20 years later and you try to get a job as a bus boy. And if the guy says, "I'm not hiring that guy. He murdered, you know," and you go, "But but he did his penance, you know, and now you give him a job. That's the humane thing to do." And people go, "Well, what about the murdered person?" And you go, "Well, of course he he got worse. He, you know, yeah, the guy that lost his life, he's he's doing worse. But it doesn't mean you you're you can't forgive or it's impossible to forgive. I also don't feel um anyone owes me an apology in in in public, you know. Um I I I I think personally that you owe an apology to anybody that you did ill to. you owe an apology to uh people that uh your um uh actions hurt in a financial way or an emotional way. Uh but nobody owes me an apology, you know. Uh so that's that's where your shock about comedians uh comes from. Yeah. Yeah. because uh because I I don't understand why they're so uh you know I guess I just I guess I just don't understand uh how there can be no rules you know uh if if the if the rules are drawn out and set down then that's one thing but you know I always thought the audience would decide whether you're an objectionable comic or even a good comic, you know, and so u Louis went up here at the comedy seller and uh the audience let him know. I don't know what happened. I wasn't there. But uh but if the audience don't like him, then the club won't book him. I mean, that's how things work. And um you know just because uh your heart can break for more than one person at the same time you know and uh and a person can do a bad thing and you can feel sorry for that person while feeling worse for the person that had the bad thing done to them. This is all so self-evident. It's hard for me to unpack. But I wanted to use the word unpack.

Well, you know, uh, we also always think of comedians being 100% free speech and stuff like that. And I don't know whether you you follow this at the New Yorker festival, but the they had Steve Bannon booked to come in to do an interview and all the big comedians said, "I'm not going to be there if somebody interviews Steve Bannon." you know, and it wasn't a thing of, hey, we're giving an award to Steve Bannon, but it was a chance for somebody from the New Yorker to interview him, and who knows what direction that would have went into, but people like Jud Appattow and uh I'm trying to think of who Patton Oswald I know was in it, and and even Jimmy Fallon, they all said, "Well, we won't perform. We we won't come and and do the panel." And I'm always surprised by that angle. Yeah. I think a lot of people feel uh my brother is a a foreign correspondent and he did a four-year documentary on um neo-Nazis and he interviewed all the neo-Nazis uh in the the world from from the Ernst Zundel all the way up to to David Irving and he didn't become a Nazi you know at all right and uh so I think people go uh you know I I certainly wouldn't be a Nazi by hearing this but but Americans you know other than me Americans are just people that will believe whatever they hear and I think that's nonsense. You know I think that if there was a Nazi a person could go watch him because it seems like an entertaining thing. You know, just the same way you listen to a guy screaming on the corner of the street, you stop and listen to him. Yeah. Right. You know what I mean?

Well, I mean, I would I would agree with you except for I learned from your show that Adam was in a cult for three years. So, I guess some people are easily molded. [Laughter] I just want to I just want to stress it was not a Nazi cult. Um, you know, these cult leaders, they they could they could they have a good gig going. Yeah. Yeah. And they all fall for the same trap, which is uh they start [ __ ] everybody. Yeah. And if you just in that, you know, you have a good life, people show up, they give you all your world, the worldly goods, you got all the money, and then you start having sex with the ladies. Then drunk with power, you're not even gay, you start having sex with the men as well. And uh you know, and then people go, "Hey, uh I was watching uh Fred uh [ __ ] your wife the other day, and I was thinking, uh any chance he's not Jesus? U so are you still with the with the store?"

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. By the way, I'm sorry, but but uh um um I love standup comedy so much. Uh uh Adam made the story great. Yeah, it was in real tough shape and he really single-handedly turned it around. So, it was a group effort, but thank you, Nor. Well, yeah, I would have thought the room would have applauded. No, no, I was just going to say we're in New York. Um, well, I think the seller is the closest. And God, I love the guys at the stand. They do great work. Like I I think that New York and LA, I mean, there's really It's always been New York and LA for the most, right? They're different, though. But would is would you be in a position if somebody controversial said that, you know, was a big name, I want to go on. Will Roseanne was scheduled to come in last week and um she she didn't show up. I know she's going through. You're not helping.

Well, well, I'm Yeah, I I think that uh I I I agree with a lot of what you guys have said about free speech and I'm a I'm a strong believer in especially in comedy. I mean, it's the last it seems like the last place that you can truly have some, you know, free speech or should and and good god, it's comedy. I mean, people are trying to you're you're trying to make people laugh, you know. Um, and it's it's unfortunate when when all the outrage is is over that and this has happened for so long. I remember uh uh when I was starting out um Andrew Dice Clay was was amazing. And I remember talking to Kenison because he didn't like being um compared to Andrew, you know what I mean? And I thought he had the perfect line. He he called and Andrew a stag act. That was like the perfect description. But uh but you know people would be women. Oh my god, I can't believe what he said. I said and I go, well, he just said he [ __ ] Mother Goose, right? Yeah. So there's no one, Adam, you wouldn't put Would you put Cosby up? Uh no. I I personally wouldn't put Cosby up. Luckily, it's not my I don't own the club and uh and luckily I don't have to make that call. But if they put Cosby up, what would you do that night? I would do nothing. I need to make, you know, I need to make a living. You know, if they decide that's their club, I would That was the Nermberg defense. By the way, doesn't Adam have one of the best speaking voices ever? Just literally. It's like Welsh. Yes. It's amazing. Richard, you should be Yes. Dylan Thomas. Yeah. You should be doing poetry on stage. That's right. I disagree. But thank you.

So, how did you guys come together with this show? How did this um well uh we've been friends for a long time. I met him at Tempe and I improv and which was the the best club in the country in my mind. I mean I don't I don't like theaters. I like comedy clubs and um he was the manager there and I moved to LA and we were friends and when I I said I talk to I said it'd be fun to to do uh um I like the sidekick paradigm from when I was a kid watching little boy watching giant Carson it's funny you know that you got this guy and then the sidekick sort of averse to the host and is a little scared of him and uh but it's all playful. And I said, "But what if you just got a guy and amplified that and just [ __ ] abused him mercilessly." And so that's why I didn't want to get a comedian. I didn't want anybody that would blow back at me. And but an interesting thing happens because it's me, Adam, and the guest. And it's some sort of sociology experiment because within 10 minutes, Judge Judy is [ __ ] calling him an idiot. You know what I mean? Like people, you got a bully and a and a bullied. And a third person goes, "I'll go with the bully." Yeah. Well, that we learned in school, right, in like first grade, like even if you weren't a bully, it's better to be like, "Hey, that kid is [ __ ] weird looking." That's true. You know, that's the way that you get comfortable in life. So, uh, well done. Very well. Just Well done. How do you get comfortable? Say that part again. Well, I'm saying like even if you're not the bully, it's great to know someone else is being bullied because that gives you the that gives you your own safety net. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. You know, so there's a trick standup comedians do. I was thinking of writing a book, How to be a stand-up comedian. No comedy necessary because I I would go around to clubs, you know, and I go, "That guy looks familiar." Yeah. He was the bouncer last week, you know. Yeah. And they just watch and they learn the tricks. But one is this mob control. You know, I don't know a lot of the tricks. I wish I did, but um like you'll you'll take a guy in the front row like this guy with the hat, you know, that [ __ ] hat. And so everybody else in the [ __ ] crowd goes, "Oh my god, I got a hat here, too." So I I don't want to be pointed out, so I'll [ __ ] also jump on this guy. And uh it's just these little uh Yeah. mob control techniques that these u these standup alleged stand-up comedians use.

Well, there are I mean, occasionally you will meet the comedian who wasn't the funny guy in his neighborhood. You know what I mean? He's a guy who works real hard and probably would have made it in any business because he works real hard, but he just happened to have picked comedy. Yes. But you don't want to be stuck in this situation with that guy. You know what I mean? cuz his it's always about his prepared stuff. Um well um that's different than being a funny person, right? Um is that what you're saying? Yes. That you you learn it. Yeah.

Um this is what I always thought about the the Harvard Lampoon or the National Lampoon. When I was a boy, Mad Magazine, we would read, I'm sure you did, cracked and sick and all those Mad Magazine types and then move on to National Ampoon. And it's kind of sad to me that kids don't have that anymore. They have The Onion, but that's just the headline. But anyways, uh um uh it it was sort of the way you grew up. And um I'm sorry, what were we talking about? It's about being funny, naturally funny. Oh, that Yes. That um when I went to Saturday Night Live, I got to meet some of these geniuses from my youth reading comedy. And so was Michael O'Donn and there was Steve O'Donnell and there was Jim Downey and uh god damn these guys were [ __ ] geniuses. So and it's because they went to Harvard like Jim Downey very good friend of mine he went to Harvard and uh he took Russian literature and he was so [ __ ] smart at this guy so smart that he decided to learn Russian so he could understand the Russian literature better. So, you know, 20 minutes later, he learned Russian. So, then on his off time, and this is what I heard from all the guys there at the time, on off time, they go over to the Harvard Lampoon and scribble a a story and and it was hysterical, you know, and uh and those guys, Kona was one of those guys. And then Harvard became a place uh where it was like, I'm going to go to Harvard to be a comedy writer, right? And that's that's where that's where uh everything went off the tracks because when I when I first got to LA everybody in every writing room was a was a Harvard guy and I remember telling my agent I go I can't talk to a [ __ ] Harvard guy. Yeah. You know what I mean? I got eighth grade education. What the [ __ ] am I going to say? I I thought they'd be so funny I wouldn't be able to understand their jokes. And then I met them and they were just rich. I didn't know that's the way it worked. But uh but but they became professional and they weren't funny, but they uh they studied it, right? They had the humor math down. The humor math down. Yeah. But I remember uh um Tommy Lorta telling me, he said, "You know, we can teach anything in baseball. We can teach but we can't one thing we can't teach is speed." And I feel that sometimes with comedy, you can learn every trick, every haik coup, but you you're either funny or you're not. You can't learn that. And I always prefer people that are just they can't do anything else but you know. And that's what these old guys. We had the guy we had a guy on our sitcom once and he he was his name was Jerry Bellson and he was uh you'll see his credit with Gary Marshalls at uh uh on the odd couple and he come in and he just pitched jokes and then uh you know everything's about story now you know well what about uh the guy's got to have feelings for the girl it's all these love stories and everything you go ah cuz he had the odd couple goes we had two guys one was messy one was neat They needed to get laid. We had two the pigeon sisters upstairs. So, but but he said that everybody thought he was crazy. Like literally, if you said you were a comedy writer, people like what the [ __ ] that doesn't exist. Yeah. you know, and now it's a what are you g, you know, I'm gonna be a lawyer, a doctor, a comedy writer, you know, because all those jobs lead to producing. And that's what, you know, the Harvard kids are thinking about is like, I can have two or three of these shows going and I can be incredibly rich. Sure. And you're like, "Yeah, but what, you know, and I'm sure you've been in comedy rooms many times. The the headwriter is never the funniest writer. He's the the political guy that can talk to the network. And naturally, actual comedy writers by nature are isolates and not very good socially, so they don't rise up Yeah. to the to to make the money, but they tell the jokes that the rich guys uh use.

Well, the entire time on SNL, you were pretty much a contrarian. You uh you didn't seem like you were playing the political game very well at NBC. Um, like when people would say, "Don't do OJ jokes." You'd give them three or four that night. I did what Lauren Michaels told me to do. Lauren Michaels was my boss, you know, and Lauren Michaels hired me and I would never do anything that Lauren didn't say. There were people that I was very naive and there were people hanging around the hallways and blue suits. I thought they were pages. Mhm. Turned out they were super powerful people and but they wouldn't introduce themselves. So they go like uh you know and everything you know you need to tell me something straight out. I got no I don't I don't know nuance you know uh like you know I have dog whistles for racism. Yes. You got to straight out tell me you know you're a racist. you need to use a whistle. You need to and even whistles I don't hear. Anyways, so uh but they would tell me, you know, you should lighten up. Uh you know, maybe on the OJ joke. And I go I go, thanks. Uh can you get me a cup of coffee? You know, because I thought they were pages, right? I didn't know. So, uh but Lauren was my boss. And anything that Lauren said, I I did I did that with all my bosses. I they own the cameras and uh and I'm not stupid enough to to to think that I should be allowed to do anything on television, you know, or anything or anywhere.

You people always like to ask comedians like, is there anything off limits? And I always think that most things are off limits. At least for me, most things are off limits. um until you can find that really funny thing about it that everybody would enjoy, you know, because there there are topics that are so off limits and then I see somebody come up with something and I go, "Well, that's brilliant." You know what I mean? Like, you know, you say, "Oh, there couldn't be a cancer joke." But then sometimes you see somebody pulls off a cancer joke that a guy with cancer has gone, "That's amazing." You know what I mean? Thank you. That's you nailed it. But it has to be that joke. You have to be uh that good at it. And but it's often not a joke about cancer. It's often a joke about some the experience of anything. It could be anything. It could be a joke about pride or it could be a joke about shame. It just happens to have cancer in in it, you know. But that's what's so hard is people ask you to defend uh these uh offensive jokes. And usually the offensive jokes are [ __ ] the worst joke you've ever heard, right? Yes. So they missed. Yeah. You don't really want to Well, you brought that up after the first guy does it. Everybody thinks, "Let's go there." That happened, I think, with Kenisonson where he was doing, you know, religious material, but people didn't realize his background was amazingly, you know, religious. And he found spots that everybody could go, "Oh, that's really, really funny." Because he knew what the hell he was talking about. That's really That's really true. Yeah. Yeah. And I remember and and and the agenda of the joke was being funny which I think has to be the first thing you know and uh and yeah I mean his religious stuff is the funniest stuff because it's not about you know making fun of evangelists right is not but it was also I always thought his stuff was like Jesus having to put up with us. You know what I

Mean? That was always the funniest part of that joke. That he would be screaming at us, and I could totally get that. I can't imagine how frustrating it must have been. And the lepers, you know, or the blind coming in to be healed, and he's like, "Can I have a moment to myself?" Everybody was bothering him wherever he went.

Uh, how did you get the guests for this Netflix show that you have? Because it's a pretty amazing group of people that you're able to pull together.

Yeah. Um, strangely, I became friends with Ted Sarandis. Only, you know, I don't have that many friends, and Ted was real nice to me, and we shared a lot of interests and stuff. And, uh, he wanted me to do something, and, uh, I wrote a book, and he read the book. You know, what guy reads any book, let alone, you know, the head of a network reading some Down syndrome guy like me, you know, trying to write a book. But anyways, he liked it, and I was so blown away by that, that he took the time. And then he said I was his favorite comic, and I said, "How about you give me $20 million?" We know you got it. We read the papers. Well, he was he's a turns out he's also a businessman. But so he, uh, yeah.

So he wanted me to do something, maybe, maybe make that book into a movie. And we were trying to figure out what I could do, you know, because I can't do much. And then Letterman came and for his own show and said, "Norm should do a talk show," you know. And, um, and then I said, "Well, Letterman knows everything. I should go with him." And, uh, but, but it's a talk show. Letterman's been of such help to me because he knows what I can do and what I can't, you know. And, uh, so he gave me so much great advice for the show. And he even said, like, he said, "I'm not, I'm not giving you advice on how to be a great interviewer because you'll never be able to do that." But so he goes, "A lot of this advice is going to be completely counter to what a broadcast or an interview such as yourself should, should do." Uh, and he said, "Just make it a conversation."

And, uh, it's the most casual thing I've ever seen on TV. You guys come walking out together, you offer a beverage, you kind of start the show halfway through. So, it really is, it seems like it's everything that I see on TV, especially with talk shows, is so overly rehearsed and done. It's very, very tight. But yours has enough breathing room that something could happen. Doesn't always happen, but it could, right? It could.

Uh, Lori Joe, I don't know where Lori Joe is, but, um, she, she was kind of the brains behind the idea of the show. And I've been working with her for 20 years or so, and she was saying, like, every time you do a talk show, the people always ask the same thing. They go, "Except for my [Laughter] father." Something just occurred to me. The first time I ever did Letterman, uh, the other guy, it was me and a guy that made, um, potato chips that he had potato chips that looked like presidents. Like, one looked like Richard Nixon, sort of. Not that much. Looked more like a potato chip. But anyways, uh, my mother was like, "Oh, how proud she was of me." She goes, "Oh, your dad wants my dad's like, 'Did you get to meet that guy with the chip?'" But anyways, what I was going to say was, uh, what was I going to say? Lori Joe. Oh, no. That Lori Joe said, "You know what? Everybody asks you all the time, and I'm sure you've heard this, is what goes on in the commercials, you know, what does Letterman talk to you about, you know?" And, uh, so she said, "We should have that show, but also the show behind the show." So, you know, we don't have commercials, so we, but we, people need to take, have breathing room. So, we say we'll take a break, and then we, uh, we just, uh, uh, we just tape that. And then it's so, and I almost got Spade, 'cause Spade is a guy I really wanted to get. And, uh, so he told me a story during the break, and then I said, "Okay, we're back. Tell that story." And then he almost did, but there's something inside him that's candy enough to have not fallen for it.

You know what one of my favorite moments was too? Is, uh, you were talking about Letterman, you know, do you ever hop up? And he said he couldn't because of nerves. And you brought up nerves, and then you told an amusing thing about Jay, how comfortable Jay Leno is. And you saw such joy in Dave's eyes laughing about Jay, that, you know, there's still something between those two guys, you know, because that's been the big strange divorce of our whole lives. And, you know, I wanted to get, uh, Dave and Jay together for the show. And, uh, almost didn't, but, uh, but, uh, didn't, didn't turn out that way. But, uh, hopefully in season two, yeah, we'll get James.

Well, you could see that it's, you know, that there's something there. Particularly as you get older, you're like, "Who gives a [ __ ] anymore?" You know what I mean? Like, I've seen that happen so many times. People in my family who weren't talking, and then all of a sudden they're older, and they're like, "I don't even [ __ ] it." You know what I mean? Right. Old man. Yeah. It's like, you know, there's that that trope about like in country song stuff, the old man at the end of the bar, you know, he's been there 30 years, still thinking about that lady. And at some point, you go, it's probably the booze, too. Like, 'cause when I meet old men, I go, you know, nobody, I never met an old man go, "Think still thinking about Ruth." You know, it's like, you know, they're thinking about their [ __ ] knee and [ __ ]. Right. Right.

So, uh, so yeah, that's what I think those guys. And I think Leno kind of understood immediately. He doesn't take anything seriously at all, you know. Yeah. He's like, uh, I don't know. He seemed, it seems like the first time they ever saw him now with his car show, he seems happier than he was 30 years of having the biggest, you know, late-night show. Yeah. He doesn't see things as, like, I remember once during a commercial, you know, he's like, "Hey, you know, when I meet this guy, some guy in the front, yeah, guy sells hot dogs in Minneapolis." I'm like, "Oh, that's nice." He goes, "Norm's a comedian." So, but it really is like that to him. It's just two guys, different things. And he's also got a thing that's really funny that it's like practical but, uh, supra-practical. Where like, he'll go, like, one time we're watching, you sit there and you watch the band who's there, and he's just stomping his foot like this. And, uh, he goes, he goes, "Buy CDs." And I go, "I go, yeah, sure, I bought CDs." He goes, "It's not you. Just turn the radio on. You're free music." And, uh, and then one day, I, I one time I decided to jog to get in shape, you know, and I was, I was talking to him and his wife, him and his wife. And, uh, tiger is chasing dog is chasing. But he was like, my swimming pool, you know, I swim to one end of the swim. And his wife's like, "Yeah, Jay, uh, only time he ever gets in the swimming pool is to rake the leaves." Yeah. Well, he always bragged about not spending his salary, his show salary. I'm just like, [ __ ] spend it, Jay. It's yours. You know, what are you worried about? It's strange. You're not going to run out of money, dude. Spend some of it.

You also said with this show that you wanted, you wanted to have Robert Blake on. Yeah, that's my dream guest. Yeah. We had a producer that [ __ ] it up. We had a producer that we almost had him. He was saying how he only did the classy shows. Yeah. And we, I said, we were on, we just, this guy pretends he can get anybody, this producer. We go, "Just keep him on. Keep them on. Keep talking." And then this [ __ ] of a producer, he goes, "Uh, I got to go now, Robert. I, I'll phone you tomorrow. I got to take my wife to dinner." They wasn't making a joke, but idiotic thing to say. Yeah. I get it. Setup. Now, what is it about? I like that. Robert Blake's. This is what I like most about Robert Blake is his alibi. He's like, "How could I have been the guy to shoot to shoot her? I was, everybody saw me. I was getting my gun." That worked as a, I love that.

Now, were you a fan of his as an actor? Or, yeah. You know, it really made me understand O.J. Simpson. Yeah. Because when I was on, uh, Saturday Night Live, there was, uh, some black staff members, and they'd say they thought O.J. was innocent. I go, "Really?" Like, all that blood evidence? You sure it's not just because, you know, he's a black guy and you're a black guy, and police have been treating black guys bad? Is that what it is? Because I can understand that. No, we think he's innocent. And I'm like, okay. Uh, it's kind of strange. But then when, when Robert Blake, uh, went up, I love Beretta. Yeah. And, uh, I, I want him to get up. Yeah. You wanted. And after that, I was like, "Oh, I get it. Sure." Yeah, sure. Of course. You know, I, if, uh, if Robert Blake had, uh, had been in prison, I would have been rioting. And people forget Mickey, you know, when he was in the Little Rascals, Mickey was the, the greatest. Yeah. Yeah. Watch *In Cold Blood*. Yeah. After, you know. Yeah.

Um, so is that, now, who is, uh, like somebody that you're dying to get on the show? So, let me, uh, try to get O.J. And, uh, his, I guess he's represented by his lawyer in Arizona. And so, uh, the guy phones him, and the lawyer is like, "Oh, yeah, he'll do it. Sure, absolutely." And I'm like, "Wow, that's super great." And then he, he phones back. He goes, "Yes. Are you the Nor [Laughter] McDonald?" I was like, "Yeah." And then he said, "O.J. said that you were particularly rough." There's a moment of O.J. is one of the funniest things. They, they got him on, uh, um, I wish I, I wish I could remember the, uh, Chris, Chris Myers. I think it was Chris Myers on ESPN, and he had the first interview with O.J. that was an hour long. And, you know, he asked him about the entire timeline. And then right at the end, he goes, "Thanks, O.J. Simpson." O.J.'s like, "Yeah, thanks for all the football questions that I was going to be." You know, I was, I was doing radio the day that the trial was coming back, and we just randomly called seven different continents, and every continent knew the story and was waiting, you know. We would call, like, a Ramada in some place, and we would say, "Is he guilty?" The trial. Yeah. The trial, the last, the day that they said the verdict was coming in, and we asked the people, "Do you think he's guilty or innocent?" And if anyone, any country had any color to them whatsoever, innocent. And if it was a white, you know, Iceland, like, "No, he's very guilty." But China, like, "No, I don't think he did it." You know what I mean? And it was so fascinating to me. You know, we, we really, that was like the beginning, I think, of white people being shocked of, "Oh, you know, maybe, maybe we don't get everything. Yes. All the time." You know?

You know, there, people go, people always go like, Fox News, you know, is it racist or is it? Here's why I think Fox News is racist. Maybe they hire a guy to be their expert on all criminal. If any, if any crime happens, they bring in their expert, Mark Ferman. Yeah. Yeah. Guy's only known for one thing. Yeah. They may as well, Mark Ferman racist. They may as well just say that. May as well be his. Yeah. And when they describe people, I said, uh, Bill Maher one time, and it was Richard Belzer, and you can describe, even just tell them how you want to be described, you know. And I said, "Richard Belzer, conspiracy theorist." And I was like, "Everyone, like, you don't, don't you lose your credit after a while if you're like, 'Well, he's written books.'" Belzer has written books, uh, that go very deeply, and I never, I've never heard him say, "I don't know this. I gotta really just believe the official word on this one." Ever. I think, yeah, he took, he, he went with the Mort Saul kind of career move. Yes.

Adam, do you ever get concerned when you hear like, "Oh, we could should have Robert Blake on the show?" Does you ever think, "Oh, oh [ __ ] no?" You know, I actually, I had to call Robert once. I try and get him on there, too. Um, I was very excited for that. Yeah. Um, we all tried. It was a full court press, but I was excited about that episode, actually. I would have loved to seen those two together. Um, well, because he was always a great interviewer, you know, he thought it was [ __ ]. Yeah. He, he did Carson constantly, and he had the unlit cigarette time. He'd go, "Let me tell you about the men, men in the suits." Yeah. He was an, he was such an expert on any topic when he was, every single topic. I was disappointed when he didn't show up, but, but we, you know, silver lining, we got Fred Stoller that day. Is there a break? It was one of my favorite episodes, actually.

Is there somebody out there for you that you would think, "Oh, they would be perfect for me, but we don't, it doesn't mesh?" Yeah, I love Morrissey, or, but I don't even know him. Not Morrissey. Uh, Noel Gallagher. I would, I think he's the funniest guy. He's just so. Oh, is he not a musician? Yeah, he's a musician. Oh, and Iggy Pop. I, and I think you would love it. Oh, is that right? Yeah, I think that would be. I'll tell you this, the Spade episode was incredibly. Oh, that's good. Thank you. Incredibly funny. What I liked about the Spade episode is it kind of got, uh, um, he captured what we were trying to get in the show, which was, uh, the show and the show behind the show at the same time. And I thought really only two people that are the embodiment of that. One is Spade, and one's Marty Short. Where, uh, nobody knows show business is more complete [ __ ] than Spade, right? But they both love it so much. They love so, so it's a funny dynamic 'cause usually the, you know, the person that has contemporary show business is like Letterman or something, which cordons himself off in a, in a, in a compound somewhere. But Spade's on every, uh, red carpet. He took me to these [ __ ] bars. I don't know how people have the, the, I'm just always tired. And he's like, "Let's go. We'll go to a bar." I just did this one night with him. We go to a bar, and then he's like, "Come on, come with me." And the, you butt in to the bar. Yeah. You know, every, like, and people go, "Get out." All right. These guys were on the TV, and you're like, "So then you're in this bar, you're [ __ ] all close to there's a guy a half a foot from you, and then Spade goes, 'Let's go.'" Like, what? And then you go to another place, and then eight places later, nothing has been accomplished, and I'm so tired. But he said, "It's all about being seen. All about stuff." You know, it's funny because I've been, I was trying to do the math because I've been to six Hollywood parties in my life, and I got two jobs. So, uh, that's pretty good. So, so then part of me said, "What have I done?" [Laughter] 6,000? Um, because this is what happens. People don't know you're [ __ ] alive and [ __ ] right? And, uh, so, uh, I did this one time after I did a show. I said, "I'm going to take a year off." I take a year off. No one assumes you took a year off show business. They assume that you got kicked out of show business, right? And you have to start all over again. And, uh, so I said, "God damn, I'm going to go start going to parties." And, you know, I get a third, a third of the time because people that next day they're, they go, "Hey, man, you know who we should get? That [ __ ] guy that fell into the swimming pool or whatever." But I, I just, I wouldn't be able to to write. And, uh, you know, um, you know, I write a lot. That that's why I'm, I'm not very good about, as you can tell, socially. I'm stutter and I'm not too good. But, uh, most time I'm alone writing.

But do you, you can't go into that party and kind of turn on the Norm stage act? You, you know, you can't be that guy. Yeah, I can do it. But it's exhausting. It's like it's like doing a four-hour set. Uh, it's like when Jesus was touched by the lepers, you know, he'd lose, he'd lose some of his power. I don't like comparing myself to Jesus, but if everybody's going to do it.

Is there, uh, a goal that you had that, uh, you never got a chance to reach? Is there something that you said, "Oh, I really, in show business." In show business, something that you'd hope that you would have gotten a chance to do? Well, I mean, I would, I, I would love to start now, you know, in, in show business because when I began, I was always like, I, I, I never wanted to do anything but standup comedy. And I said, "I want to do standup comedy and then become a big stand-up comedy star and only do that." But, uh, it quickly became, I became evident that you can't make enough money. So, uh, you know, you advance for a while, and, uh, and then somebody says, "Hey, what about this? You know, now you're really good at standup. What about if you do something you're terrible at, and we'll pay you 10 times as much?" Yeah. And you'll act, and you'll fall in love with the girl. And then I'm like, "I'll take it. Yeah, I'll do it." And then so, uh, what I, what I, I told Ted Sarandis this. I said, "You've really done something good by giving $20 million to these comedians." Um, um, Chappelle and, uh, a couple others. And, uh, because it's made, you know, it's taken this what's always been considered a vulgar art, standup, and it's made a person now, a person can go, "I want to be a standup," just like a person could say, "I want to be a novelist," or "I want to be an actor." "I want to be a standup." That's all I want to be. And that's what I wished maybe I had done. Uh, but I didn't have the guts to. I had a kid and I had to feed. But nowadays, I would just, I, I would certainly advise standups. Just aim, aim at that. It, it's really rare. I mean, it's a very short list of guys that can draw big just from doing standup. I mean, I think Carlin was that guy, and Brian Regan today is that guy where his audience shows up for him and without have ever seen him, you know, do a sitcom or a movie.

Isn't that funny? Like, you know, when, you know, they always ask lists. They always have lists of, they love listing standup comedians and who's the funniest, you know, every once in a while, the funniest man in the world. And you go, but he's been around for years, right? And, uh, and, uh, but anyways, in these lists, somehow, clearly the best comic in the world is Brian Regan, without question. Uh, and, and you don't need a comedian to say that. You need just anyone that's ever watched him to say that, you know. And, uh, and yet I never see him on those lists. No, it is. And it's because of the people who write those lists aren't exactly people that care about standup comedy. Unfortunately, it's not. There's some guy in the Times named Zinnamon. I don't know if you know him, but he seems to know a little about standup comedy. But it would be nice if stand, I know standup comedy is a very, very new art form, if you want to call it an art form. Um, I don't, I don't think it is an art, personally. But, uh, but [Music] um, but it's great. I think what Ted did, what Ted Sarandis did specifically in in getting a whole bunch of money to.

If you don't think it's art, what do you think it is? Well, I think, I think it's craft. Because what the only reason I say it's not art is because art allows for interpretation, right? But if you do standup comedy, and you can't have people interpreting it differently. You can't have this guy laughing at this part, this guy laughing over here, this guy laughing. You know what I mean? You can't have different layers of laughter. You, your job is to say it, and then make a noise. Right? And then say something else, and then make another noise. And that's craft, obviously. That's craft. Uh, where I guess it can ascend into art is, um, is subject matter. Um, I guess that would be the, if you can, if you can reveal something.

Um, what about for you, Adam? You feel the same way? It's, it's not art, or I think it's a, I think it's a little blur. I, I, I could see both sides. Um, yeah, I think that there's art to it, but I, I understand a lot of what Norm just said. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, to me, art, to me, I guess, um, like a person who takes, uh, a very simple idea and, and, and, um, and explores that idea to its, to its, which, which I feel the best stand-ups do. That's an intellectual exercise. Take something simple and make it incredibly complicated and look at all the minutiae. Art, I feel, is to take something incredibly complicated and reduce it to a line, you know, and, uh, I think that's how I would define art. And so that's pretty hard to do in standup. People have done it, not for their whole acts, but people, yeah, just every once in a while catch that thing that is just, catch that truth. Yeah. That truth that everybody immediately changes, you know what I mean? Immediately will be able to go, "Oh, I thought I felt that way about it. I now feel this way about it." And then you'll hear that being kind of taken and working into. I remember when, uh, Louie did the thing of saying, "I hate my kid." Like, the first time I heard that, it was shocking. And then I heard, like, you hear a lot now, you hear newscasters saying it, "My kid's a dick." And everyone laughs. Um, Kenan & Kel would give him a sandwich. That thing started to just move. Not even other comics stealing it, but politicians. And then you would go, "Okay, so everyone's moved over." So it's cool that that person, even though they got stolen. It's like that with impressions sometimes, like, uh, you know, people would, you know, Dana did the impression of Carson, and you, I did not know that. And then people would go, "I did not know that." Well, you're really stealing that from Dana. And I like that. That's when you have a great impressionist. He cracks that thing, but then everybody else starts at that point. So, they're like, "Yeah, when I was a kid, nobody could do Bob Hope." Yes. Yeah. Right now, now everybody can do it. Uh, but with like, I remember with, uh, with Dana, you just have people starting with, not you're like, he doesn't even talk that way. That's Dana finding a funny place to go with that. I was so shocked because I remember because Reagan was the president, and I was like the vice president. Nobody's gonna be able to do him. He has nothing. And so, yeah, Dana just made it up from scratch. It's so funny.

Uh, you're really enjoying doing this, uh, show, though. This is, uh, you think something you want to do for a while, right? I would love to do it forever. Yeah, because, uh, uh, Lori, who I work with, I don't know where she is, but she and I have always worked together. And she said, "Let's, uh, because I was real good friends with, uh, Ted Sarandis," which is strange, and, uh, and Dave. And I said, "You know, these, this is a chance to work with people that are friends." And then she said, "Let's just hire. Everybody we hire will be our friends." Because as everybody knows, whenever you work together, if there's one bad person, that person becomes the person that everyone else talks about, you know? I don't know what it is about human nature. You're like, "Mother [ __ ] Marcy." Well, I think Lori is trying to make sure all your other interviews don't get cancelled. So, uh, thank you. We'll catch you on The View. This is so awesome. You're such a great interviewer. I always love watching you. And, uh, and, uh, Norm McDonald has a show, and like I said, even though all this controversial stuff is happening, this is just a funny, silly show that these guys do. Adam, thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much for having us. It was really great. Yeah, thanks for putting that away. Norm McDonald, everybody. Let him hear it. Thanks, buddy.

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Kay Lavine, what's on the Nerdist community corkboard? Well, first of all, Anderson Cowan, who, uh, is from the late *Loveline* and the film podcast, has an idea for his first feature film, but he needs your help. The film will be called *Groupers*, and it's a dark comedy that is sort of in the same realm of *Human Centipede*. The logline is: "A female grad student captures two homophobic males to be part of a controversial experiment at the bottom of an empty pool." And Anderson calls it an after-school special, but for adults. Uh, to watch the video about the project, to find out more info, or to donate to the crowdfunding campaign, you can go to groupersthemovie.com. And also, right now is a super exciting time for sports fans because, uh, baseball is in the playoffs. It's the middle of the NFL season, basketball is in preseason, and hockey is starting this week. Is it over yet? Nope. We have two sports podcasts that people should listen to if they like sports. One is *Puck Soup*. It's a hockey podcast hosted by Greg Wyshynski and Dave Lozo and features all the latest hockey news and games, as well as interviews with broadcasters, writers, and more. And the Jonah Keri podcast talks about all sports and features interviews with athletes, commentators, comedians who are sports fans, and more. *Puck Soup* comes out every Thursday. And the Jonah Keri podcast is every Monday and Friday. You can find them on nerdist.com and iTunes. And subscribe. Listen, they're great.

You tricked me because that is related to a Nerdist thing and like we have sports now. That's not fair. Katie [ __ ] used to it. That's not Katie, you're hurting me. Let go of my arm. Uh, this episode is Norm McDonald, which this is our, this is a record Nerdist Podcast. I don't think we've ever had, I think this is the longest Nerdist Podcast we did, and it's not, but it didn't feel like that when we were doing it because Norm is an exceptional storyteller, and he had, he has all the stories. He had so many great things to say, and he was, and I just, I want, the only reason that I had to stop, it would have gone longer, but the only reason that I had to stop is because Lyd and I had tickets to see Neil Finn at Largo, and so I, I had to get to the Neil Finn show, uh, 'cause he had been on the podcast. And that's coming up in a bit, uh, in a couple, couple weeks. But, um, yeah, so, I mean, Norm is endlessly fascinating, and really, you know, I didn't even really know Norm that well. We've met a few times, and he remembered that. He was so nice to me. He was very nice. He was so sweet. So, uh, hilarious. Norm is promoting his memoir *Based on a True Story*, now available wherever books are sold. Uh, pick it up 'cause it's Norm. It's, it's Norm on Norm. It's going to have so many stories. Sweet Norm on Norm action. And, uh, and thank you for, uh, thank you for being generous with your time, Norm. So, here you go. Listen to it all at once, break it up over a couple sessions if you need to.

Um, this episode also brought to you by Casper Mattresses, the sleep brand that has created one perfect mattress sold directly to consumers, eliminating commission-driven inflated prices. Uh, they've won awards. They, they should win an award for how it's delivered because it comes in a small, how the hell do they do that, size box? But there's a mattress in there. In addition to the mattress, they also have an adaptive pillow and soft, breathable sheets. And, uh, it is very high quality, and they're delivering it right to you. It's got just the minor, right amount of sink, just the right amount of bounce. Normally mattresses are like over $1,500 bucks. But Casper mattresses cost $500 for a Twin XL mattress, $750 for a full, $850 for a queen, $950 for a king. That's under $1,000. All right. And try it. Try it for 100 nights. They're going to let you try it. If you don't love it, they will pick it up and refund you everything. That is how much they believe in their product. You want to give your money to people who give a [ __ ] about what they do and who care that you care about their product. They're obsessively engineered mattresses at a shockingly fair, fair price. Time magazine named it one of the best inventions of 2015. Free shipping and returns to the US and Canada. Uh, and it's made right here in America. So, uh, right now, get $50 toward any mattress purchase by visiting casper.com/nerdist. Use the offer code NERDIST. Terms and conditions apply. Thanks to Casper for sponsoring this episode of Nerdist Podcast, which is Norm McDonald, episode number 831.

Katie, roll up your sleeves and roll the thing. Now entering nerdist.com. Incredible. Thank you very much. American success story. Thank you. I mean, I'm still, I think everybody's still puzzled at exactly how podcasts work, but, uh, I, I think, uh, most people are catching on that it's basically, I mean, Howard Stern is really the, the godfather of, even though it wasn't a podcast, but just that sort of like, "I'm just going to talk to people," right? But no, I'm just talking about the, the, there's, you don't have Coca-Cola management. We can find one for sure. Really? Yeah, absolutely. Well, it's super hot out. Don't go too far. Deb, are the studio just? It might be, they might have him in the studio kitchen. Hey, I noticed a thing about the debate yesterday. What? There was a debate last night. Did you notice the split screen? Yes. So, here's two people talking to each other on the same stage, and they have a split screen for the entire show. Yeah. And I was like, "Why did they do that?" And then I figured it out. Why? Height. Oh, to keep them. Oh, interesting. But I also think, ever the same size. Interesting. I think people wanted to see every reaction. You know, it's such a, such a microscopic. Yeah. And I don't know. I don't know if they told Trump because he, I, I think he often felt he was off camera. You know what I mean? There's only a police squad moment. He'd be just picking his nose and scratching his balls. But it's funny, like, just with charisma, like your face never left Trump, even when Hillary was talking. You know, you're just looking at the reaction. But I, I didn't think the, I was actually somewhat disappointed in the moderation of of that because there was really no structure. There was supposed to be a structure, and they go, "Okay, that's time." "Wait, I'm going to talk for a few more minutes." All right. Well, no, the time needs time. Like that's it. You should have gotten your thing in before. Like that's how that works. I thought 90 minutes was short, too. Thank you so much. I thought 90 minutes was kind of short. I love that moment. There was only one exciting moment to me, which was at the end when he almost, like a a child, he said, like, "She's not being very nice." You know, like, it's so weird to hear someone say, "Nice," and she's not being very nice. And, uh, "I'm gonna say something." You know what? "I'm not going to say." "I'm not going to say," but it is kind of funny to try to take credit for something that you didn't say. You know, I was going to say this really, I was going to, 'cause you're still kind of insulting. Which are you referring to? I was talking about what he said, like where he said, "I was going to say something." "I was going to say something not very nice," but then I decided not to say something not very nice. Oh, okay. Well, great. So that's your basic human. You're a nice person. Okay. Yeah, but you still let us know that you're, I mean, I'm thinking it, I'm thinking this really horrible thing. It's just, I'm almost as bad. Really? It's almost just as bad.

Do you think going back to the late-night talk show before? We're not on the air now. We are. Yeah. Oh, we're on the air. Yeah. Hi. Hi, Chris. Hello. By the way, thank you for just sitting down right now. We can go as long as you want. I, 'cause we do Marin after, but I could give it. Wait a second. I, hey, what the, I understand we can go as long as you want 'cause I enjoy this show. Thank you. I enjoy all, all things, but it's good. Do you think Letterman's happy since he left? Do you think a guy like that can have a pattern like that? You think so? I, I've, you know, I've had some contact with him, and I'm shocked because I thought he would not be, but he seems to be incredibly happy. And, uh, he seems to be also shocked that he's happy, but, you know, he thought that he would have nothing, you know, which, um, most people do, you know, like my father was, you know, he had a job, and he always saw retiring, you know, that was his whole goal, his whole life. And then when he retired, he forgot to think of something to do, like he didn't have hobbies or anything like that. So then it would just be like, my mother worked also, and was was much younger, so, my dad would just look out the window when she left and, you know, clean up around and make. You just didn't know what to do. Then no idea. You'd walk the neighborhood and talk to people like in the neighborhood, you know? I mean, I feel like you need something to do, something to occupy yourself with, because you, if you just sit, no, you can't do nothing. Yeah.

Um, I follow this guy, Kip Adadada. Uh-huh. Yeah, I know who Kip is. You know who is? Yeah. Well, you got to follow him on Twitter 'cause it's the most amazing follow ever. And then he only has like 140 followers or something. So I have a whole bunch. Well, not like you, but, you know, I have a near a million. So I, uh, t you know, I tweet him thinking he'll tweet me back. Another comic. I, a whole way, a whole bunch. And no, never returned. And I go like, "Kip, Adadada was one, one of my favorite comics ever on The Tonight Show." Boom. No response, you know. So I'm like, "No, he doesn't even refollow me." I'm like, "What's going on?" But he does these videos and he puts them on Twitter, and they're so funny. He's just like an old man complaining. And then his neighbor is this old, uh, 'cause, you know, Kip must be 70 by now or something. His neighbor is an old African American fella about the same age. And so they're playing checkers, like who's played checkers 50 years. Exactly. And they're playing checkers, and then, you know, Kip Adadada will say like, um, you know, um, "I, I did 150 Tonight Shows." Goes, "[ __ ] you did [ __ ] the guy doesn't believe." And why would he know? It's just like, he's just a fat guy in a, in a bad house. [ __ ] man, tell me some more stories, kid. He's like, "I don't care if you believe me. I did it. I know that." Yeah. And I walked on a moon. [ __ ] What was your story? Because the, the, this your book is out. Yes. I wrote a book, *Based on a True Story*. A memoir. A memoir. A memoir. And it, it's essentially just, it is, it is a biographical account of the strangest of your life. Yes. So what was the story about, uh, The Tonight Show for you about ruining a chance to get on The Tonight Show? Um, 'cause you must have done The Tonight Show a bunch. I mean, I feel like I remember seeing you on The Tonight Show. Uh, well, there was The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson, and then there was afterward, you know, right? But, um, I was living in Canada. I was kind of at my peak. Um, I'd been doing, I, I got good at standup pretty quick. So I was about two years in, and I was really good, you know, and I said, "I'll go." Carson had announced he was going to retire in eight months. So I said, "I'm going to go to Los, move to Los Angeles and be the last comedian on The Tonight Show and have him anoint me and call me over to the couch, and it'll be a big deal," you know. And, uh, so there was this, uh, um, talent booker for The Tonight Show who had a lot of power, and, uh, he had, you know, he was the guy you had to get through as a gatekeeper. So anyways, uh, but he was, you know, very frustrating to. So I would do a set, you know, and he would come. First time I did the set, and he came up to me after, he goes, "I didn't like you, but I was really drunk." Oh, Jesus. I'm like, "Geez, man." So, all right, well, can I do it again? He's like, "Oh, of course, of course. I didn't care for you, but you're probably funny. Everybody says you're funny, but I tell you, I was really hammered." I'm like, "All right." So then the next time I'm sitting there, and I look over, he's necking with a girl. I'm like, "Jesus Christ." Like, what the [ __ ] is this guy? So finally, he's, you know, he looks at the stage and sees me after, you know, seven tries, you know, and, uh, so then he goes, um, "You're great, but you're not a Johnny comic. You're a Jay comic. People say these ridiculous things that that have no meaning." So I'm like, "Uh, what?" He's like, "You're, you're more of a Jay." Because Jay was doing *Monday Night* um as the guest host at that time. And it had already been revealed that he was going to take over. So, uh, he goes, "You're a, you're a Jay comic." And I go, "No, I think I'm a Johnny comic." Like, that's what all my friends tell me. They always say, "Hey, you're a kind of a Johnny comic." He's like, "I think you're a Jay comic." I'm like, "Um." So, I'm in my head, I'm like, "There's no [ __ ] It doesn't mean anything. What are you talking about?" I was so angry. And then he says, like whispers it to me, he goes, "And also Jay is gonna take over the show." That I go, "I go, that was in the paper. Why are you whispering it? Everyone knows this thing. You're telling me in confidence, you know." So anyways, he, he says, you know, "Johnny will watch the, you, the Monday night with Jay, and, and everybody already knew at that point that Johnny hated Jay also. And even, even if he didn't like, Johnny Carson's gonna watch the guest host on his day off, you know, at 11:30." So, uh, so I never got to do The Tonight Show. But then looking back, like, I wasn't really a Carson guy. I just, when I, he was like, um, corny old guy to me. Yeah. You know what I mean? Because, uh, so I took it on faith that he was funny, you know, and I'd see clips and he'd be funny, but I wasn't a guy who grew up with Johnny Carson. I was a guy who grew up with David Letterman, right? So, it probably was better for me, um, to, to have my first spot on on Dave. You know, you got sorted into the right house basically without knowing it. You know, it turned out I was a Dave comic. You were neither a Le comic nor nor a, uh, nor I met, I met Johnny Carson after that, and it was, and I told him the story, you know, and he didn't, he just said, uh, he just said he, you know, we just, whatever he said about the talent booker, but he phoned me. He had an office after he retired, and he would go to the office every day. Johnny Carson, and I don't know what he did, you know what I mean? He had a secretary. Wouldn't he write jokes? Wouldn't he like send jokes into Letterman sometimes? He would. He would. Because when he died, Letterman did all his jokes. Yeah. And I remember watching and going, "Oh, these jokes suck." Like, "What is this, um, what is this monologue?" And then he, he said, "Oh, Johnny wrote all those jokes." I'm like, "Well, that explains it." And of course, if Johnny sent Dave jokes, he'd be compelled to read them, you know what I mean? He was his hero of all time. So, uh, but anyways, uh, I was on Saturday Night Live, and I did an impression of Larry King because he did those King's Things in USA Today. For those people who don't know what that is, it was little bullet points where Larry would say his opinions. They weren't funny, and it was kind of an old journalistic device that predated Larry King, um, just stream of consciousness things, you know, and, you know, we would parody them. He does them now on Twitter. We, he, so we would parody them, but they were already really self-parodyical, you know, right? So, it's hard to, we had to go real crazy, you know, like, like I go, you know, "Yellow is a good color, but blue is the best," or something, you know. Or, uh, so, uh, Johnny invites me. I don't know why he invited me to his office, you know. As I get there, and it turned out that Johnny got USA Today every day, and he would, uh, he would phone his friends and read Larry King's, um, stupid ramblings and got a, you know, got a big kick out of him, and his and his friends would laugh. So, in his, in his, he opens his desk drawer, and there's all these like, um, uh, you know, his secretary had cut them out of the paper, you know, about a three-inch thick, uh, packet of Larry King's news and views, or King's Things, or whatever it was called. So, he gives me

A bunch, and then he takes munch. He goes, "You know, let's uh, I don't, I can't do car." He goes, "You know, let's uh, let's, let's read some, you know."

So, so I go, "Wait, did he say that ironically, or did he genuinely think they were insightful?"

"Oh, no, no, no. He thought they were really..."

"Okay, good, good, good, good. Okay."

"...stupid, but uh, and he thought it was insane that they were taking up, uh, you know, newspaper space." And, uh, so then, uh, you know, I, I would, he would read one, and then I would read one. You know, it's really, speaking of surreal, like, you know, you're sitting across the table, like, about as far as I am from you, except it's Johnny Carson.

So he'd go like, uh, he'd go like, um, "You know, why is it, uh, you know, I would enjoy baseball if it was 11 innings?" You know, then we'd laugh about that. And then I would read it and I'd go, "You know, whatever it was, like, 'If you have to see one movie this year, make it Mickey Blue Eyes.'" You know? And then, like, what? Like a few ways through, I realized he'd never asked me to do an impression. So I was like, "Maybe am I being a fool? Like, he never said like, 'Do Larry King.'"

So, uh, but, uh, but I guess he liked it. So, we laughed at that. We did that. Then he goes, "We'll have to get together again, presumably to do the exact same thing." I mean, so that's what you do when you retire. I mean, I guess, you know, I guess he played a lot of tennis and he did. He, uh, he did. Yeah. But I, but I, I imagine that it, and I'm sure, you know, for Jay too, it's probably really weird to, to have that pattern of going to work every day and having this very structured lifestyle, and then all of a sudden, like, it's taken away. "What do I do? What do I do now?"

"Have you ever heard my impression of, um, Johnny Carson phoning 911 when he had his massive heart attack?"

"No, I have not."

"Oh, well, you want to do it? Please take us there."

"But you have to be the 911 operator."

"Sure. Okay. 911 operator. Sure."

"I'll get a phone. Ring, ring. Uh, hello, 911."

"Uh, hello. This is, this is Johnny Carson."

"Oh, uh, Mr. Carson. Yes. How can I help you?"

"I, uh, I, I feel like there's a yak on my chest."

"Can you describe the yak?"

"You can't go further. You're like my mother. I finish the joke, and she's like, 'What happened to the dog?' I'm like, 'Wait, I thought I thought we were going.'"

"Oh, no. Because that, in that, in that scenario, that person would try to be respectful of Johnny Carson. Could you describe the yak, even though they know there's not a yak, even though they know there's..."

"I should have gone with it. Yes. And, God, Norm, I was so on the scene, man. Right. Isn't that improv?"

"Yes. And I don't get acting jobs. You know, no one ever lets me really explore the depths of my..."

"I was talking to Diana earlier about, I've only been on like four auditions in my life. You know, I'm so awful in them. But the first one I ever was, I came, you know, I had very strong standup, so I would kill in the club, you know. So there was a, a guy, casting agent, and he's like, after my set, he's like, 'I love you.' They had the show on on Fox called 'Flying Blind.' It was Tia Leone and, uh, and then this guy that talked and looked exactly like Woody Allen, you know, and the idea was that he was like, you know, nebishy, and she was super hot. So, anyways, it was, it was a big show that they were just starting on Fox. So they had a regular role they wanted to do. And, uh, so he's like, 'You're perfect. You know what? This is perfect. Ah, this is great. You know, they're going to love you.' And I think he was thinking they're going to love me for, and he, oh, he kept saying that. He goes, 'I discovered you. He goes, 'Don't forget that.' I'm like, 'No, no, I don't want to forget.' And I'm all excited. So he gives me the script, and it's a huge amount of lines I have, you know, and so I'm reading it at home. I don't know how to act. They just look in the mirror and make faces and, you know, I like, underline a one word to say louder than the other words, and, you know, like all the actors. Exactly.

So I go there the next day, uh, to meet the producer. I was supposed to read in front of the producer. I get in, there's 30 people. I'm like, 'Whoa, whoa.' And introducing everybody, one guy's the head of the network. I'm like, 'What in hell?' And so it was sort of like the, the, the nascent period of Fox, not the beginning, but so shows were important at that time. So all these people. So I start reading, and I'm getting no, nothing. Zero response, you know, and, you know, the, the 30 people are like looking at each other, puzzled. And finally, the, the, uh, casting director goes, 'Stop, stop, everybody. He's like, 'Can, could we have a moment? Norm and I, can we have a moment in the hall?' And they're like, 'Yeah, sure. Have a moment.'

So he goes, 'Norm.' So we get out in the hall. He goes, 'What the [ __ ] were you doing?' You know? So I go, 'What? I was just reading the script. The script, you know.' He goes, 'But what about last night?' I go, 'What?' He goes, 'Last night, like at the, the comedy club.' So I go, 'You, oh, you want me to do my material from last night?' He goes, 'No, you idiot. He goes, he goes, 'I want you to be funny like last night.' Jesus Christ.

So, I'm like, 'No, but I had like this good material I've been working on, you know, for two years, and this is some stuff some guy wrote in a week, and I can't make it funny. I'm not a guy that can make stuff funny.' And, uh, then he goes, he goes, 'Uh, you're not coming back in that room, I'll tell you that.' And then he just laughs, and I'm alone. I don't drive. I don't know how to go home. And then my manager goes, 'That guy is real powerful, you know. He could make it so you never work in this town again.' Like they used to say in the 30s. And I was like, 'Ah, even I knew I was like, I don't think you could do that.' But anyways, you should still thank him for discovery. You should have dedicated."

"Oh, that would have been a good idea. He did discover me."

"Well, the network testing process is a brutal, horrific process. Oh, gosh. Yeah. Which emotionally feels very much like, uh, the Russian literature that you so enjoy. A tale of isolation in an icy, in an icy tundra."

"Well, you know, when you go into those big, um, stadiums or whatever they are, you know, and the, and the, the people that decide are way up. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. In the auditoriums. And I feel so bad. I always felt bad 'cause I would have television shows where I, anybody that came in, I just laughed insanely, you know, to make them comfortable. Yes, of course. You know, and these other [ __ ] just dead silent, you know?"

"Oh, yeah. Like, it must have been some power thing or something."

"I'm like, God, I think it was a power thing. And I think it was also a, um, you know, a lot of these people are just terrified, you know, 'cause their livelihoods depend on whether or not they have another hit show. But I think a lot of people are too terrified to express an opinion in front of their bosses because then they're not going to be accountable for it. It's like, 'Okay, well, as long as I have the same experience that my boss is having, I can't ever get blamed.' And so I think they're all just terrified. They're just terrified. So if they laugh and the boss doesn't think it's funny, it's like, 'Oh, well, why'd you think that was funny? I don't know. Please don't fire me.' So I think, I think it's probably a lot to do with a terrible, terrible experience for a performer trying to..."

"It's made so uncomfortable. And then ultimately, it doesn't matter 'cause they're like, 'Oh, we gave it to this other guy 'cause he was the same height as this other person.' That's what it usually ends up being. Yeah, you're exactly right. But, uh, you know, the, um, uh, the, the, just the, the terror they make you go through for no reason. Um, I, I don't know. I know like, uh, for notes, there are people that that's what they do for a living. They give notes, you know, for people at home, you know, they give notes for the studio people, give notes. The network people give notes. They're required to. They're required. That's why a lot of them don't make sense. That's their job. Job. And when you think about it, what's a note? It's always going to be negative. Like, you know, if you just go, 'I liked everything.' You know, that's then you're an idiot, apparently. Even though why wouldn't that be the case sometimes?"

"So when Seinfeld came around, Seinfeld came under the aegis of Rick Lewin and late night because they had, um, they had him signed to a holding deal in case he replaced Johnny Carson. So, uh, Seinfeld's sort of a guy that thinks he should earn his money, you know, and has a Protestant work ethic and he's like, 'Well, I'm being paid a million dollars. I'll make a show, you know.' And, uh, everybody, you know, in the world, I remember, had always thought, 'What about a show about being a comic?' You know what I mean? That was what everybody wanted to do. And then when you thought about it, you're like, 'No, that's not a good idea at all.' So, um, he did that with Larry David as a summer show in the summer, so called 'The Seinfeld Chronicles.' And, uh, it didn't do well. And, uh, and then when it became a hit, and then, um, Larry David and both of them, but especially Larry David, is very hardheaded and was willing to walk, you know. Uh, Jerry Seinfeld was willing to walk because he was making so much money as a stand-up comedian, right? He was probably the biggest, biggest comedian at the time. So they wouldn't take notes, especially when the show became a hit. So, you know, I'd hear stories about from the writers about how, you know, they'd, in after the dress, or whatever, they'd be in Larry's office, and Larry would be putting, you know, a little putting thing, and Jerry would be sitting on the couch, and then the guy would give a note like, you know, 'I think, what about, I was thinking if Elaine, uh, you know, didn't, uh, didn't act so surprised at that moment, uh, in the third act?' And then, 'There you go. I don't know. I kind of liked it. What about you, Jerry?' He goes, 'I liked it.' And the guy goes, 'Oh, so, uh...' And then I had a show at the same time, and I was like, um, 'I, I would pitch them, no, no.' I go, 'Well, they do that on the Larry's show. I mean, on Seinfeld.' And they go, 'Well, that's Seinfeld, like some different thing, you know.' And I thought, well, now, after, after Seinfeld was such a success, well, now they'll go to that paradigm, right? You know, a, a great comedian, and then a guy he chooses, and then two guys write the show, which is also the interesting thing about Seinfeld is they had a room full of writers, none of which wrote the show, you know. Uh, the idea was you would go to Jerry or Larry and tell them a story from your life that..."

"Right. But it had to be a real story."

"Real story. Yeah. Which I was a brilliant idea. And then they would write it, you know. And, uh, I remember Spike Ferstein telling me, uh, that he wrote the 'Soup Nazi' episode, and the entire story he told him was that there was a guy in New York that was a soup Nazi, and, you know, that was it, you know, that he was, he was a real mean guy. And so, um, he told me like years later, he goes, 'Does it ever bother you, like, I won an Emmy for that, uh, 'Soup Nazi' episode, even though you wrote the entire thing?' And he said, Larry said, 'Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.' He had forgotten."

"Did you like doing your show? Did you like doing a network sitcom?"

"No, I didn't. No. Because of that reason. I would have loved to do it with that idea, you know. And in the old days, that's what they did. You look at the credits, there's two guys, two people. And so I didn't like this collaboration. You know, the rooms getting, getting bigger and bigger. So you'd have 18 people in a room, uh, trying to do comedy, trying to tell you how to be funny, the way you..."

"That's the other thing too, yeah. And how to be likable, right?"

"And I was always like, 'Well, if you're funny, you're likable. Some people laughing, laughing, they don't hate you. Yeah, they will like you.' Uh, but instead, it would be this, you know, kind of hatable because you're trying to be likable so much, and people go, 'Oh, this guy's really trying hard. They can feel.' Yeah, comedy is rough when people can feel the need, when they can feel the desperation, the neediness. It's all like, it's all, it's all over because they need a comed, they need a comedian to lead them. They need the comedian kind of needs to be a leader."

"Oh, yes. Yes. And, uh, anyways, the, the size of the room, even like from a sociological standpoint, I don't think 18 people can work as one. They'll drift. They'll make cliques, right? You know, there'll be three people, three groups of six that all, uh, you know, talk about the others as if they're no good. But also, there's no 18 good funny people. You can never find that, you know? And then what you end up doing is you're like, 'Oh, well, seems like Melissa hasn't had a joke in for a while.' Like, and it's like, 'Really? We have to put it in because she hasn't had a joke in for three weeks. I have to put in a bad joke.' And I never had like an ego about jokes. Like I, I would go like, 'Whatever the best joke is, that's what we do. I don't care who wrote it.' Like if, if the, um, if the writer's assistant wrote it, which I'd always tell the writer's assistants to pitch, uh, whoever, you know, um, if I wrote it, and if I wrote a joke, and then you write a better joke, I'm not going to fight for my joke. It's absurd. You know, I want just the best jokes, and I don't even remember any, you know, next week I'm not going to remember which you guys wrote the joke. You know, I'm just going to know if it's a good episode or not. But there was at that time, there was so much money the writers were making. It was insane. And I remember like Peter Roth from, uh, from, um, Warner Brothers Studio. He found me up and he goes, 'What do you think of these two guys, you know, and they were meddling writers, you know?' I said, 'Why are you asking?' He said, 'I'm thinking of giving them a $5 million deal each.' So, I'm not going to take a lottery ticket away from a guy. You know, they were both fine people. So, I'm like, 'No, they're worth it. They're great. Why not? Like, who cares? Like, I'm going to, you know, I'm going to ruin these guys' chances of having a giant house and car, you know.' Uh, but that's what busted, uh, I believe that's what busted sitcoms, rightfully so. You know, like people go, 'Ah, these reality shows.' I'm like, 'Well, it's not like sitcoms are good.' Right. Right. And then I, you know, during that strike, I just go by, you know, there'd be people picking. I go, 'Well, you deserve, you know, are getting way more than you deserve. I don't know why you're picking a lot of money.' Yeah. Just these super rich guys with the beautiful laminated, like they had hired someone $10,000 to write the perfect joke on their. But yeah, no, I, I really don't like collaboration much. Like two is good, you know what I mean? Um, but, you know, it's like, even if they were all super talented, you know, it would be like, um, anything. I don't know. Yeah, I wouldn't call it art, but, you know, uh, if you had Picasso and Rembrandt, and that's the only two guys, and then another Picasso, Rembrandt, Jr., Jackson, Pic, you know, and you had them all together. Okay, let's start, you know, and it just be a mess. Obvious, obviously it would be a mess. You need a singular vision for that. But I also feel like, and you couldn't be noted because Picasso, they go, 'Hey, what's with the nose?' Yeah. You know what I mean? Right off the top. And it is interesting that Picasso is the, the most famous, well-paid, uh, painter in the whole world, and you would think that's a niche painter, you know what I mean? Right. Um, it's very strange to me. You'd think it would be Rembrandt, or you think it'd be a realist, you know?"

"Yeah. But it was, it was just that style. But he was also, he was also amazing at that as well, but he just..."

"Oh, he was. Oh, I didn't know that. It's just this, this style that have developed over time. Sort of became."

"Yeah. Oh, so he was, he was like an expert. Like they always say with any type of art, you got to learn how to do it properly before."

"Exactly. Before you can deconstruct. Before you can deconstruct it. But I think, but in your case, just as a comedy fan, I feel like your voice is so specific. I can't imagine someone writing for you because you, you, when I think, when I think of comics that I adore, that I think, you know, like someone like Maria Bamford, I'm like, 'You can't write for Maria. She's just, that's just how, you know, that's just her voice. Just kind of the voices in her brain that make that happen.' I mean, I still remember, I still have this thing in my head that you said, and I must have seen it 25 years ago, but it was something to the effect of, 'Mean Streets, if you're a wiener dog in a cardigan.' Jesus."

"Yeah. So I can't, how could you tell someone to write that, you know? Like, that's going back, baby. That's going back quite a while. That's going back."

"You know, when I met Gary Shandling, there are some jokes because I've always loved standup comedy. I've sort of been a student, you know, of the, of it, you know. And, uh, when I met Gary Shanling, there was a joke that he did that was so mysterious to me how he wrote this joke. And the joke was, uh, he says, 'Uh, so anyways, I'm, uh, I'm dating Miss George.' All right, it's the former Miss George. Okay, it's George Foreman. So I was like, 'How did you do that? How did you get to that? Like, how did you reverse engineer it from George Foreman?' Or it seemed like divine to me somehow or divinely inspired."

"What did he say?"

"'I don't [ __ ] know. What are you talking about?' It was a, it was before he became like the Zen, you know, teacher. He was just like, 'What the [ __ ] are you talking about? I don't know.'"

"You need to be so funny off stage. I remember one time, the, uh, the G-spot, you know, he's like, 'Have you heard about this G-spot, Norm?' I go, 'Yeah, I heard about it.' And he goes, 'Jesus, I don't know how to find these [ __ ]. He goes, 'I wouldn't even know how to find a guy's balls.' So, he's just so [ __ ] funny in person. And then later he became sort of a Zen-like teacher of a, not teacher, but, you know, he was to all the young comics, you know, he would sort of, uh, be very kind, and it was nice to see, you know."

"Well, Japet was saying that he was so meticulous that he had these notebooks which were just, uh, intense, almost mathematical deconstructions of comedy and how jokes work and why this is funny and why that's not funny, and the, the dynamics of a room. I mean, he really seemed to be an actual student of, of the science of the science of the science of comedy. But, um, you know, I saw Seinfeld did a thing in the New York Times where it shows how he made a joke from nothing. And I don't like that."

"You don't like that?"

"No, I don't like that. And, and, and I knew Gary real well. And I wouldn't speak ill of Gary. He was one of the best comics that ever lived. But, um, that idea of, uh, mathematically understanding comedy. Mhm. Um, you know, I know that it's not an art because, and the reason I know it's not an art is because an art can be interpreted, uh, different by you and by me. Sure. But if you go and do standup, you have to make a noise. You have to make the audience make a noise all together, all at the same time. So then it's craft. It's not art, you know, because people can't go, 'I like that part. I like that.' Because then people would be laughing all at different parts, you know what I mean? Would be."

"But on a, on a larger scale though, when you take comedy out of that intimate situation, that does happen though. People go, 'Oh, I heard about this thing that wasn't funny.' Or, 'I saw this thing and that wasn't funny.' Especially with the internet now."

"But it's either not funny or funny. Right. Right. There's only one or two. It's very binary that way. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, so, um, this idea of, uh, arithmetically or arithmetically rather, deconstructing comedy, uh, I think, you know, there was that famous quote by Mark Twain, and I, I'm going to blow it, but he says, you know, 'Dissecting comedy is like dissecting a frog. At the end, you know nothing of interest except you got a dead frog.' Right."

"So, uh, well, that's the Steve Martin thing of he, you know, from what I understand of his, of his early standup was that, you know, he wanted things to be funny, but you never knew exactly why they were funny. They were just funny. Is that..."

"Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I remember he said, uh, you know, if he, uh, he was worried about writing a movie. He didn't know if he could write a movie. And I don't know who told him, maybe it was Carl Reiner, but he said, 'You're funny, so just write a movie and then the movie will be funny.' And he said that was very simple, but it was an epiphany to him that he's like, 'Yeah, I can be confident that I'll, whatever I do will be funny because I'm funny.' And, uh, so that made a lot of sense to him. You know, his book, what, the only thing that bothered me about his book, 'Born Standing Up.' Yeah. 'Born Standing Up,' which I thought was a fantastic book, except for what you were talking about, his early, he shows his early jokes, you know, and there were these great jokes from his album, you know, and I know they weren't his early jokes like..."

"Oh, right, right, right. Because they were on the album, right?"

"Yeah. They were like fantastic. What were his early, early? I would love to see, but of course, who would have the balls to put those out? You know what I mean?"

"I have a tape of, uh, my, uh, fourth time on stage."

"Have you ever played it anywhere?"

"Uh, well, just for myself. They had it in Ottawa. This guy, the manager, taped it. I did an hour."

"Oh my god. Your fourth time. Holy [ __ ] on stage."

"I, I did amateur night one night. Was this at a Yuck Yucks?"

"Yuck. There's only two comedians in Ottawa where I started, so I was very lucky. So I, I went from amateur night to headliner in a month."

"Holy [ __ ]."

"So, uh, but it was all awful, you know. So, uh, he had it, and I was like, 'I got to get it, you know.' So he had it in some vault or something, you know, this precious thing to him. And so I said, 'I got to get it.' Um, you know, they just made up something. I go, 'They're doing a documentary on me.' And then they want to talk to you. And then, uh, I just made up a whole bunch of stuff to to make him think that he'd be on TV. I go, 'They want to talk to you, but they need that like for, you know, early to get in the can, you just saying all this nonsense words, you know, that I think will impress him.' So I get the tape, and I, not only, uh, I watch it once, and I destroyed it. I didn't even keep it."

"You destroyed it?"

"Oh, it was so awful. You know, that's why I'm saying if I had the balls, I would I would say, 'Here are the jokes.' Because to show people, you know, um, uh, you can be a stand-up, you know, you could be a great stand-up like Steve Martin, even though these were his real first jokes, right? And you just see these terrible jokes, 'cause everybody's first jokes are terrible, you know? That's just. And so I think that would help a comic, you know, uh, incentive when they read like, 'Whoa, that was Steve Martin's first bit was, uh, you know, 'Let's Get Small.' That was his just, he just sat down and wrote that. That's very specific."

"But you said, but in the, you know, with the, with the book, there were some bullet points that got sent over the book, like, 'Oh, you know, Norm tells a lot of these stories in the book about the time he had a disastrous appearance on Star Search.' But I had remembered your Star Search and I went back and watched it again, and it wasn't disastrous. It wasn't disastrous. First of all, you only had two minutes, which was a ridiculous."

"That is ridiculous. Yeah. They run it backwards from two minutes. Two minutes to to do stand up, but I thought the joke, the jokes were good. The jokes were all right. The jokes were fine. And I thought the crowd was, I thought the crowd reacted."

"Oh god. Did you see the guy after me?"

"No, I just saw, I just saw your clip. Who was the guy after you?"

"The Bushman. I don't."

"He was a Liberian."

"Okay. Although later, I someone told me he was from Seattle. But, uh, and he wore a long flowing robe, and, you know, he had a hat. It was, it was called International Star Search. So I was from Canada, the least international country. And then he's from Liberia. And, well, you're from Quebec City, so that's a little more international, right?"

"Yes. If I had any jokes about that, okay. But all my jokes were about domestic American affairs. So, which at first I thought would be a, um, stupidly I thought would be an advantage, you know. But then of course, later I realized, no, they want an international guy. But, oh, no, it didn't go well. I remember, uh, when Ed came out, he almost laughed. Like he, he said, 'Another tough decision for our judges.' And people were laughing. And Ed, thank God, didn't laugh."

"My favorite moment on it, and I can't find it anywhere, was you get to talk to Ed McMahon. So after you're, I mean, it was horrible for me, but I walked over, and I get to talk to Ed McMahon, which is what I was looking forward to like crazy. And when you're standing beside Ed McMahon, you kind of feel like Johnny Carson, you know. And you know he's the perfect statement, but he's going to ask you a question you don't know what it is. So he said, uh, he said, 'Now, Norm, you're from Canada, and, uh, tell me, what do you find are the differences between Canadian audiences and American audiences?' So I go, 'I feel that the American audiences have better shoes.' So he laughs like crazy at that. And then he goes, 'We will return with our international spokesperson right after this.' Shoes. That was just the last word. His brain was probably like an alcohol rag, just soaked at that point."

"Could I felt so good though? When I did my first Letterman, I felt it was funny, you know, because so much fluke is involved in show business, you know, so much luck. And, um, so I did Catch a Rising Star to do my audition for David Letterman. And I destroyed like I've never destroyed before, you know. And so I get off, and Robert Morton, who booked the show at the time, he was like, 'That was great.' He goes, 'I never do this, but you're, I'm putting you on the show now.' I never made a big point of how I never did that. And this was the first time, and he was going to put me on the show, and everything was perfect. And so I had a teensy-weensy tape recorder, I had taped my, uh, set on, you know. And he goes, 'Just do that exactly what you did.' You know, so I go, 'That's, I can't do that because I've got it on my recorder.' So I go back to Toronto, was like a two-month gap, every single night I was worried about it getting too rote, you know, but every single night I do the exact same, you know, until it's just burnished in my brain. And then, uh, so I come back, and then the way it works is you, you go and you do a set the night before, you know, to warm up. He takes you around the, the area. So, we went to the exact same club, Catch a Rising Star. I go on and I bomb like no one laughs at all. So I get off. I don't care 'cause I'm already going to go on Letterman. I'm completely confident in the, in the material, you know, but Robert Morton's in a panic. So he goes, 'What do you, why'd you change it?' He goes, and it was word for word, 'cause why'd you change it?' So I was thinking like, 'Should I take out the tape recorder, which I have, and play it for him?' But I felt like I was dead. So I go, 'Yeah, I changed it around. I'll change it back.' Yeah."

"You say, 'Oh, no. You got that was stupid.' I go, 'No, I know. I know, Bob.' But I just felt to move things around. New jokes. No."

"So then I go on the show, I do the exact same set again, and it kills. So, you know, if I had bombed the first time, forget about it."

"Did he notice when you went on Letterman? Was he like, he didn't notice at all?"

"No. Like, you know, these guys go like, you know, 'We don't care how you do like in the, you know, go see you at Catch, and, you know, if you bomb, we don't care. We can see through that and comedic nonsense.' Yeah."

"Of course, they get super nervous 'cause they don't want to get it. Makes..."

"Well, they were going to say, 'That guy that got no laughs. Perfect. He'll be perfect for the show.' Oh, yeah."

"Did you immediately become pals with Letterman after the first time, or did you have to go on a few times?"

"Uh, what do you mean by pals?"

"I was never, I thought you guys were friends. I mean, you went on his..."

"No, I was never friends with David Letterman. Oh, I, I just had this, I just had that you're just going on his last week of shows. I just..."

"No, we had a, like a, he talked to me, which I felt was nice, between commercials, which he never did with anyone else, you know, and he was so funny, so incredibly funny, you know, what he'd say between the commercials, and, uh, and sweet to me and stuff. And he would invite me, uh, to these dinners, you know, which I really should have gone to, but, um, but I, I felt like I was on the show so often, and every time I was on the show, I had my little, you know, in between, uh, uh, the commercial thing to talk to him, and those were my favorite times, you know, and he'd say, he'd say anything, you know what I mean? And was like swearing. And I remember, I, I reminded him of a joke 'cause I knew everything about him, you know, 'cause I'd watched him since I was a kid. And he did this joke, and that, so I, I said, 'Remember this joke?' And I told him, he goes, he goes, 'That, that joke would get audible gasps from the audience because it was such a rough joke.' Yeah. But it was so hilarious. And what it was was Paul Newman's son had died. So it said on the front of the National Enquirer, it said, uh, so this letter told the joke. He goes, 'So I saw the National Enquirer this week, and it said, "Why Paul Newman does not like to talk about his dead son."' Boy, there's a puzzler, right, folks? Was Paul Newman sitting around his, uh, swimming pool with his other Hollywood stars, and, uh, somebody says, uh, 'Oh, by the way, Paul, how's that dead boy of yours?' 'I don't like talking about that.' Now I feel, I hope to God he doesn't hear that. And then I heard him do it on, on our show, and he said, you know, why he changed it to, 'Why famous movie star you,' which I probably should have done. That's all right. Paul Newman's dead. That's okay. That's true. Totally fine. You're right. Is there some descendant of Paul Newman like, 'Wait a minute?'"

"I actually have another story about that Paul Newman 'cause I watched Larry King once. This was the strangest thing I ever saw a guy say. But Larry King has this weird thing where he's sort of psychotic. I'm gonna go interview Bill Larry King, but, uh, he's sort of like, he's seen it all and nothing affects him, kind of. And so he was talking to a person who had lost their child, you know, like eight months earlier or something, and they were saying how hard it was, and then he says, 'Paul Newman told me you never get over it.' I'm like, 'What did he just say to this grieving parent?' Like, yeah, it was name. Exactly. It was name-dropping. It's a name drop. I never thought of that. It was name-dropping."

"No hope whatsoever. Right. Right. You're right. That was the reason he did it. I was wondering why he would make such a psychotic statement, but he was just name-dropping. He could have just said, 'I never get over it.' 'I heard you never get over it.' Well, even that. That's the bad part. He could have just said, 'I know Paul Newman. I know Paul Newman, and your child is still dead. We'll be right back after these.' That's a terrible. That was just awful. I can't believe I told two stories."

"Those are both great stories, though. Those are both great stories. I, I was looking, I saw the, um, I saw, do you remember the last time I think we met? You were, this is why it's incredible. Your success is not incredible, you know."

"No, I, but you've worked hard and you've made this amazing, uh, American success story. But you were, when I last saw you, there was a roast, and you were interviewing people coming out of the roast. I remember."

"And I had done the SAG roast. The SAG-AFTRA roast. And I guess you didn't watch the roast 'cause I had done like just cheesy jokes."

"I saw that part. That was the only part I saw of the roast 'cause they had me back sitting in the audience for the index cards."

"Oh, you did? Yes. Oh, okay. I was worried that you hadn't, no, seen that and I was like freaked out when you were there asking post-show questions."

"No. Yeah, that was, you didn't ask pre-show questions, did you?"

"No, they had me on the carpet with for the arrivals, and then they had me talking to people afterwards. Um, and now, did you like that? Did I like the show?"

"No. No. Doing that?"

"Well, I, you know, it was, I love Bob. I've been friends with Bob. I mean, I, I've been friends with Bob for almost 20 years. So, you only did it for that one show?"

"No, at the time I would have done it anyway because I was, you know, I was like, I, my career had dipped at that point, and so if anyone asked me to do anything, I would have done it. But I also, you know, I'm comfortable talking and hosting, and I like hosting, and so especially because of Bob and because it was comedy, so like, sure, sure. And, um, I mean, I don't, I don't do that stuff anymore, like I don't do red carpet stuff anymore. But, um, but before you created this empire, um, you were sort of in a category with Ryan Seacrest, I would say that's accurate. And with, uh, Carson Daly. Yeah. Uh, guys that, um, were, you know, broadcasters and hosts, which was, which for me, the hard thing was that I'm, you know, first and foremost, I've always been a comedian. And so it's sort of comedian, not like to..."

"Exactly. Because people go, 'Oh, you're a host.' And even still, it's only been like the last couple of years where I, you know, when I perform, people go, 'I didn't know you did standup.' Like I've been doing that for like 20 years."

"No, I, no, I get that all. You get that? How do you get that?"

"Because I'm, I'm just, uh, um, I'm just seen as the guy that was on SNL, or maybe the guy that got fired from SNL. I just, I just get pigeonholed. But I don't mind pigeonholing. Like I understand pigeonholing, you know, someone, you know what I mean? Because one time I worked at an insurance company, and there was a guy that was the underwriter, and I was just supposed, I was the lowest guy, you know, and, uh, I came in, and I was eating a donut with sprinkles on it, right? And he's like, 'What are you doing? What's your donut?' I go, 'Just a sprinkly donut.' He goes, 'Oh, yeah. You like them, huh?' And he was the rest of the entire time I was there, six months. He's like, 'Hey, you got a sprinkly donut today?' I'm like, 'No.' He goes, 'Hey, sprinkly donut guy.' And I'm like, 'Why are you p-' That was being pigeonholed unfairly."

"Well, that's just laziness. That's because he doesn't want to have a conversation. He just wants to identify you quickly. And also, he knows that conversation can't go any further 'cause you can only either say yes or no. I have a donut or I do not have a donut. That's very good. There's there's almost a Schrodinger-esque, you know, you're in one of two states at any given moment until observed. You have a sprinkly donut or you do not have a sprinkly donut. And that's the entire experiment. So that guy was just being lazy. Roning arrest. That is that is that guy was just being [ __ ] lazy. It is. I And I, I know it's kind of charming to be like, 'Hey, there's the guy with the pants. Hey, look at you. Hey, glasses.' You know, but if that's every day with every single person, every single day, like, 'All right, have a conversation with the person.' But I, I love, I mean, I have many more facets."

"Well, I love the, I loved the index card thing, and all the other comedians who were in the audience were folded over. Well, somewhere, like if you see the tape of it, there are some guys, comedians that are clearly later to the joke than the others, right? And I don't know if Jim Norton was ever there. Uh, because he looking confused and all that. And then when he got up, he, he said, he said something. He always said, uh, 'Watching your set was like watching Henry Fonda pick blueberries,' which I didn't understand. So I said, 'I don't think anybody would, I think every, you know, I think everyone in the world would enjoy watching Henry Fonda pick blueberries.' Because I didn't understand the joke. Apparently it was from 'On Golden Pond' or something he that he had. But yeah, he, uh, but afterwards he was like, 'What the [ __ ] was that?' So I, like a semantic logical argument about, you know, actually, I think people, first of all, it would mean he's alive again, which remarkable for humanity that resurrection exists. Secondly, hey, blueberries are delightful. Yeah. And because I hadn't seen the movie, it was such a non, such a Schrodinger-esque thing. Second, adores you more. I mean, like, do I?"

"Well, I know you and Bob are close. I mean, he's such a sweet guy. He is. We haven't really hung out as of late, but I remember early on, I think before, because we actually, you, I hung out, I hung out near you a couple times with Bob. I was always just sort of quiet because I was kind of aruck and nervous."

"Oh, really? That's strange."

"Yeah. And, well, I remember us upstairs at the Laugh Factory. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you, I didn't notice any nerves from you or anything."

"Oh, I, I, I just always felt like I don't have anything interesting to say to these people. They're all, they're all people that I adore and respect comedically. But Bob was so good with young comics. He's just a sweet guy. Yeah. He's just great. Just, uh, you know, that especially for that era, that's very rare because those guys were, uh, nowadays, everyone, you know, I, my, you know, my son and his friend, they just, um, it's, they're, everyone's supportive of everyone, right? You know what I mean? I don't know if it's that's good or not, you know, like, uh, Saturday Night Live, Lauren, on purpose, you know, he has a bowl of dog food and 14 dogs. He makes everyone compete. Yeah. And that's enough for one dog, and then the amount of food he's doled out. So yeah, he believes that competition, capitalism, uh, will will produce the best, not collectives, right? Not communism. And, uh, you know, I'm inclined to agree with that because, um, um, again, I don't like to collaborate on, on Saturday Night Live. You could write a sketch completely by yourself, which is what I always do. I never collaborated with anybody. I would help them do their sketches. Sure. But if I had an idea, I would never let anybody touch it, you know."

"So, did, did you do Weekend Update all by yourself?"

"Oh, no. Not Weekend Update. No, no, no. These were just sketches. No, Weekend Update. It's too hard to write that many jokes by yourself. But I, I, I what I did do is Weekend Update had always been lazy before that. They had, they just did it on Saturday. Believe it or not, they did it on Saturday, and everybody would sit around, eat bagels, and, uh, think up jokes, and a lot of them were picture jokes, you know, 'cause Dennis liked like just pointing at a picture and go, 'Check this out.' And, uh, so they had a whole millions of pictures, and you go like this, and so, uh, so anyways, it was kind of just sloppily done, I thought. And so there were always people sending in jokes. And so I said, I asked Lauren, 'Can you just hire a couple of guys?' You know, there was a guy named Herb Sargent, and he had written Update for every anchor up till me. And, and I said, 'Lauren, can I fire, uh, so Lauren goes, 'If you're going to shoot, you have to shoot to kill.' Like Lauren always said these mysterious things. So I'm like, 'Yeah, okay. Well, let's shoot to kill, man.' Then he's like, 'Okay, if that's what you want.' So, I got Jim Downey. He was kind of the genius of Saturday Night Live and had just been fired as the, uh, as the main, as a head writer of the show. So, I was very lucky, you know. So, I got him to come on Update. And, uh, Herb Sargent, who was supposed to be fired, just shows up. Lauren never fired him. Oh, [ __ ]. So, um, I'm hiding, you know, whenever I see Herb Sargent, I'm ducking behind like pillars and stuff like that. And he's going to the fax machine, getting, you know, and the copy machine, changing his jokes because he would write like all the jokes, but, and, and you know, Lauren, Herb Sargent was a guy who, who gave Lauren his first job or something, and Lauren's very loyal. So, um, uh, so finally one day, finally didn't show up. I don't know who finally had the courage to tell them, but it happened a lot. Like, do you, do you ever remember a comedy named..."

Warren Hutcherson? Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Very funny African-American comedian. And so he was a writer. So of course, you know, all the comedians want to be performers, you know. So, uh, Jim Danny was the head writer. He was second in command, and Lauren was first in command, of course. So Warren said, "You know, I can't stand the show as a writer. I want to be a performer." So Jim goes, "Well, that's great by me. You're so funny. You should be a performer. Just get Lauren's permission."

So he goes to Lauren. And Lauren's like, "I always thought you were more a performer than a writer. Frankly, Warren. So, yes, did you get Jim's permission?" He's like, "Oh, yeah, yeah. He told me to come here." He goes, "Just to solidify it with Jim." And then he went, "So he goes back to Jim and he goes, he said to solidify it with you." Like, and Jim said, "Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's fine with me as long as, as long as you got, do you got Lauren? You know." He goes back to Lauren. He goes, "Yeah, Jim said it's solidified." He goes, "Okay, good. Then, well, then you're a performer, but just get Jim to find, just, just get him to sign off."

So Warren said this happened, and he's so, he said, "Jim, like, can you come into Lauren's office like with him, you know?" And Jim's like, "I know, you know." So that's nice about Lauren, but I, cuz I am the same way, I cannot fire anyone. I think you should have done it. I think it should have just been a random Weekend Update at the very end. And as we're wrapping up the show tonight, I just like to thank Herb Sergeant. His last show. Well, no, probably should have. I mean, you said it, but you actually could have, but you were actually firing him on the show. I was just firing him on the show. I see. Yeah. Yeah. He doesn't know. Just taking big hand for her everyone. Thank you so much. Cuz then how could he come back after that? That's a good idea. Really weird. And also, he should have had that, you know, he worked on the show since its inception. And, uh, so anyways, I found, you know, uh, the guys, the writers on the show were pretty lazy. And, and, uh, I wanted Update to be its own thing. And so I wanted outside guys, you know. So every people would fax all the time, and I read every joke like OCD. Like, I even if the first, you know, hundred were bad. I remember a guy used to send like a hundred jokes a day, you know, every single day. And they were almost jokes, like, but never like funny enough. And I was like, I told Lauren, I said, "Should I phone this guy and tell him to stop?" Like, when do you, when is it your duty to tell someone to, um, stop following their dream, you know? Because it's very hard to write. It's probably just as hard to write bad jokes. You mean, you have to type. Sure. And on a whole bunch of pieces of paper. And, uh, so Lauren said, "Yes." He goes, "I was, you know," he said, um, "somewhere in the, the annals of show business, there came a time when, um, when someone said, 'Never take no for an answer.' But no can be a very, very good answer."

Did you have, all I can hear is that typewriter. Did you tell the guy? Did you finally tell him? My mind is like, can you hear that? Oh, yeah. Are you transcribing everything we're saying? I'm writing down notes so I can write the description. Oh, I see. I see. I see. But the description is an exact one-for-one word account of everything. Every breath, every sigh. Wow, that's a great, uh, great pictures. Oh, thanks. Very eclectic tastes. Yeah, I like a lot of weird. I collect a lot of weird stuff. What do you? I would love that. There was a, there's a pizzeria near my place where they had a, a Mal blank, um, what do you call it? When like a cell? Yeah. Cell. Yeah. And, uh, and they didn't know what it was, you know. And, uh, then they closed. I was like, "Oh, I bet I could have bought that thing for 100." I buy all sorts of cells. This, I drew this. I painted this in high school because I, I wanted to be a cartoonist. You did? I did. Yeah. And I found it. Did you copy it? No. Well, I mean, it was an ex, yeah. I mean, I, it was a, it was from an episode of, you know, it was like a "Wabbit Season, Duck Season" episode. Yeah. But I, but, but there wasn't, uh, there wasn't that picture which you just traced or you did that. No, no, no, no. And I found it in a box like two years ago. Holy crow. And, um, yeah, it was. Why are you not a cartoonist? Um, because I like comedy better. And also, there are much better cartoonists. And I guess you could argue there are better comedians, too. But I, but you know what I hear from, uh, from people who do animation, that there aren't good cartoonists. That it's not that there's bad cartoonists, but that the, the cartoonists don't understand comedy. So they don't, you know, like these guy Bugs. And they, they all do different great takes. And you, and what I've heard is they send their funny script over to Korea, right? And they just have like, you know, these, uh, well, they do the in-between. Yeah. They do the in-betweens overseas. But I, I think you should be with the guy and say, "I want Bugs to turn this." You should. Yeah. And that's how that's how it was when these guys were, when Chuck Jones and these guys were doing this. But, and the guy I'm talking about did the next, uh, Junior, whatever the hell it was, you know? No, you know what he did? He did, uh, apparently you might be interested in this. Apparently there was a sitcom. They did it as a, a cartoon sitcom of, uh, of Bugs Bunny and his friends. So like a three, like a fake three-camera sitcom. Yes. Oh, that's crazy. Yes. I mean, it would be fascinating to see, but it's an awful idea. You know, there was a very crucial point in college for me where I was just starting to do stand-up, which I had wanted to do my whole life. And then I submitted to this studio called Spumco, this guy named John Kricfalusi, who did Ren and Stimpy. And they were like masterful artists. Yeah. And, uh, and I submitted and I didn't get hired. And then I was so intimidated by how good I thought I was good until I saw their work. Uh-huh. And then their animation work. Animation work. Yeah. And that was very much that thing where they were very hands-on. Well, they were animators plus writers. Yeah. And they directed the episodes, you know. And so, uh, and Ren and Stimpy was the first, um, you know, comedy of the grotesque for, for, for cartoons, right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was the first, you know, John K, well, not to bore you with it, but John K was kind of a student of Ralph Bakshi. And Ralph Bakshi, you know, in the '70s had, was very like, had a very kind of grotesque edge to him in a great way. And so John, but, but why do I know that name? But I can't. Ralph Bakshi, must have. He did like, uh, Fritz the Cat. And Oh, yes, of course. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, and, um, uh, Wizards. And he just like, did a lot of. Fritz the Cat was a movie. Fritz the Cat was a movie. It was basically like a, a dirty animated movie. Yeah. It was a life. They swore and there was, you know, he was kind of this cat. Yeah. Didn't they, they have sex? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was very sexual and, yeah. It was very dirty and it was, it was actually. But what else did he do? Um, he did Mighty Mouse in the '80s. He did a version of Mighty Mouse, but he kind of had to conform a little bit. So his sensibilities, it's kind of funny. You know, when you're younger and you're like, "Fuck everything." And then you start to get older and you're like, you know, maybe I'll just take the job. Uh, maybe I'll just do it. I got a friend right now. Well, I won't say who it is, but you probably know him. I'll tell you after. But he's in that situation where he was given a, he created a three-camera show, but he's not a three-camera guy, you know. Oh. And so now he. So I said, "Nah, just grab the cash. You know, you got, you got kids, you got an ex-wife, you got alimony, you know what I mean? Like, you, you need money at some point. You know what I mean? Like, like, you know, that's like when people go, "You sell out." You know, there's a famous like video of Bill Hicks like screaming about Jay Leno selling out. So ridiculous. Cuz Jay Leno did a Cheetos commercial. Doritos. Doritos. Yeah, he did Doritos. And I think that was on like, Rant and E minor. So like, he put it, I think it's on one of his stand-up albums. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Know it was, it was a long bit he did. Yeah. And then, first of all, that's kind of, I don't think you're supposed to go after other comics. But, um, you know, he could have gone after a lot of people if it just came down to selling out, whatever that means. I mean, uh, presumably Bill Hicks, you know, performed in clubs that sold liquor, right? So, I mean, everything's selling out. I mean, unless you just sit in your home and create art for yourself, you know? Well, I think, I think selling out is, is violating your personal belief system for some type of gain, financial gain or power or whatever it is. But if you know, if Leno didn't, what was Leno's act that he was? Did he? Yeah, exactly. If he didn't have a particular, you know, like, "Boy, I really hate Doritos." Hm. Doritos going to give me some money, so I better rethink that. You know, he probably was neutral on Doritos and someone said, "Hey, here's a million dollars." Well, sure, why not? And then he said, you know, "Leno has no right to call himself a comic." And I was, "Well, how about the right of he's a million times funnier than you?" Like, does that give you, does that give him the right to call himself? Leno was a spectacular comedian. When I, yeah, when I started, he was like Elvis, you know. I mean, you know, did you ever see him when he was just, yeah. When he used to go on Letterman and he was super fiery and had the way, way edgy and unbelievable. I saw him live and he moved, you know, he was powerful. Like even like, you know, after they got famous, like, like Seinfeld would go on the Improv, you know, they'd applaud for 10 minutes and then he'd do his act, you know, he'd do well, of course, wouldn't destroy it. But Leno would just be, you know, performing his heart out, you know what I mean? Like just crushing. Like he didn't, he didn't rest on his laurels, you know, at all. And, um, you know, I didn't like him. I certainly, you know, can understand why people don't think he was a, a great talk show host. Uh, however, um, I do not understand the animosity directed toward him. You know, I think for some people, it probably was, there was a, there was definitely a shift in his presentation between his comedy and then, and then the show, you know, because they're two different modes. And he probably just assumed, like, "Oh, okay, well, this guy, this, the guy who's hosting the show probably needs to be more congenial and not, you know." He made a calculated decision. It was a calculated decision. And, you know, cuz he couldn't, because his, I mean, he would have, [ __ ] steamrolled everyone if he was that guy hosting that show. It wouldn't have worked. Yeah. The, the guest wouldn't have had a chance. And he's also a ridiculously smart guy. And I think he probably, once he got into the job, was legitimately just not that interested in talking to people that he probably felt like, "Well, I mean, I'm probably a lot smarter than this person and I don't really care who the fourth lead on ER, like what they have to say about stuff." And it's not his fault. He was offered this, you know, $15 million a year job. Of course he would. And it's also Johnny's show. Like it was a big thing. It was a huge honor. It was a big honor. Yeah. He was real smart also. And he made the monologue 20 minutes, you know. And, uh, and, uh, Letterman wasn't used to a long monologue because at the time, Carson said you couldn't do a monologue, right? As one of his conditions to do 12:30. So Letterman instead did this, you know, three or four joke anti-monologue, you know, uh, which was great. But, you know, I remember one time being at the Tonight Show and and Jay's like, "Well, I get, I don't understand Dave. Like, why is he, has the better show? You know, his show is much better." You know, he said that right to me. Like, he knew that Dave's show was better, but he, he. But what drives comedians crazy is no one else had that connection to the audience as Jay Leno did, right? Nobody. And, uh, and he crushed everybody, you know. And when he left, he was, he was number one. Yeah. And I think there's also a, um, I think he also probably got dinged for being, um, I don't know, like, I think it was probably like, "Oh, he just wants to be number one." You know what I mean? But I feel like no matter what, people [ __ ] on you no matter what. Like if you, you know, no matter if he, if you're popular, if you're popular, because, you know, people even started kind of turning on Letterman, you know, like toward, which shocked me. Yeah. Yeah. That really shocked me. So I think it's just, why did they turn on him? I heard that he, they said he was political. I've heard that from a lot of people. I don't know. I mean, I honestly don't know. I think it's just the nature of the, the es and flows of social dynamics. It's like, how could he, how could people love someone for 30 years non-stop? There would have to be a, "Oh, it's a discovery period," and then, "Oh, we love," "Oh, now a backlash," "Oh, now it's cool to like him again." You know, it's just the nature. I think it's just the nature. But you said something. I, I think I saw an article of maybe it was Esquire, but it was an article where you were talking about how you thought the state of comedy itself was kind of declining a little bit or like there was, you had some criticisms about the state of comedy in. And I think some of it had to do with maybe the kind of confessional style. That's. This is what Rich Shiner told me, and I don't watch comedy very much. I don't watch young, young people do comedy. Uh, but, uh, yeah, Rich Shiner was telling me, you know, what they do now is confessional comedy. And, uh, I went to a club and I watched the comedian. I understood what he was talking about. Like, you know, they would, yeah. They would say about how they got molested when they were a kid. And, uh, and, you know, without going into names, like if you have, like, I saw a one-woman show once by a woman. Mhm. And, yeah, and, uh, she was like, "Well, my mother had breast cancer, you know. And now I have breast cancer." And I'm like, "Well, that's everybody." Like, they think it's so special when everyone gets cancer and dies. Like, great. What if we just ended the podcast? But, you know, that it's almost like the height of narcissism to think that you're, uh, you're going to, um, you know, you're going to be so brave as to, uh, talk about it in person, right? Whereas all you're doing is just garnering sympathy for yourself. I guess that's true. How is that brave? It seems cowardly to me. It seems much braver to me. Like, I remember Richard Farnsworth was an old character actor and he did a David Lynch movie called The Straight Story. And, uh, riddled with cancer, you know, his last movie. And, uh, very frail. And it's a fantastic movie if you ever get a chance to, uh, see it. Uh, it's by, it's not a, it's not a, um, style because I, I don't really, I'm not really a that big a fan of of what's his name? David Lynch. Yeah. I'm not a fan of, I don't understand weird stuff. Like I'm like, "Huh? What?" Like, but this one is a straight-ahead story. You know, you think I call it like a hard G. It's G-rated. Okay. I call it Harg because the second time I watched it, I'm like, "Whoa, I understand it all of a sudden." Well, you got to see this movie, okay? And if you watch it closely, there's like hellish things going on underneath the surface of what looks like a quaint story. It's based on a guy who in actual real life drove his, uh, riding lawnmower across the state to visit his brother who was dying. So anyways, the point of it is that Richard Farnsworth was nominated for an, an Academy Award for the movie. And if he had said he was, he was filled with cancer, he would have won for sure. Sure. But instead, he didn't say it. And, uh, in fact, no one knew it. Uh, his family didn't know it. He kept it from everyone. And then he did, he was a stunt man before he was an actor. He did what they call a stunt man's death, which is you put a shotgun in your mouth and you, with your toe, you pull the trigger and blow your head off. Oh my god. And so that to me is courageous. Like you're, you know, you're not being a burden to your family. You know, they know nothing about it. And then you're gone. And then that's it. And then towing the shotgun. Yeah. And, uh, and, you know, he wrote him, he wrote a nice letter to everybody, you know, in the family and said that, you know, he didn't want to, that the reason he did it is he didn't want to cause people distress. So I thought, wow, how incredible. Like, how many to just go through it alone? So you don't think, go through it alone? You don't think you would write confessional? Like, do you, you didn't talk about any of the gambling stuff in your stand-up, did you? Was that stand-up? No, never. No, never. You know, and I never talked about me, really, you know. I talked about universal me, you know what I mean? Right. That I was afraid of death or that, uh, you know, that kind of thing, which is, um, this was something that everybody is afraid of, you know. And, um, so things like that, that it was me, but it was everybody. I wasn't pretending that it was a specific, right, um, ailment that I had. And if I had a specific ailment, and possibly I do. You don't know. I don't, I don't know. Uh, but I would not talk about it. I would not, uh, I hope that I would not discuss it and, and just try to, try to, uh, benefit monetarily from the, from that. But you tell some, which other people get, which other people get it and they get nothing. But you tell stories in the book, though. Uh-huh. So that is, in a way, you're sharing it, right? Well, I don't tell stories though that are, um, I tell stories about my gambling. Sure. But, uh, you know, I, I don't really think of gambling as a much of an illness. Like, I think I say in the book, like, it's the only illness where you can get incredibly wealthy. You know, you don't get osteoarthritis. That's a good joke. Ain't going to get you a dime one. I, I do put a lot of jokes in the book. There's so many jokes. I'm like, "God damn, that could have been in my act." It's amazing what happens when you sit down and force yourself to write. It is. It's incredible. Well, you know, first of all, you, you think about your life, you know, and you, cuz Socrates said, "A life unexamined is not worth living," which I don't agree with, but especially after examining my life. But, uh, it's kind of depressing because, um, when you really look at your life, you realize you don't do hardly anything. You know, eating food is a huge amount of time. Like buying food, going to restaurants, finding people to eat with you for the next meal, right? Food, food, food. Uh, that, that's most of your day, especially when you're doing stand-up on the road. Yes. Try to find, uh, uh, food. So when you look at it, it's so mundane. And, and that's not how I, I want to remember. I'd rather remember things. Like, for instance, when I was a little boy, my dad had a Bell & Howell 8mm cam. Mhm. Yeah. Uh, film. There was film in it, you know, and he would take pictures of our, uh, like a birthday party, you know, it'd just be all these little kids like waving, you know, and sort of like in a kind of pixelated manner. And the colors were garish. And, you know, and it, you know, bright lights, you know, the brightest light right in your face. And anyways, it would take 15 seconds because my father, once it was expensive to film. But I have it. And when I look back on it, it's this, it's the way that memory is like, it's this sort of unreal colors and, uh, and things like that, you know. So, uh, then, um, I cut to me with my son years later, and I had a video camera, you know, and so I taped his fifth birthday. And it was like two hours. And then I watched it and I'm like, "I'm not going to show this to my kid." Like, it's just the most banal. Nothing like nothing happens. Just a kid walks from here to here, and then he's out here. Another kid walks here, and then another kid. And then they say nothing to each other. And I'm like, "I'm not going to show this to my kid." Like, I want him to remember things as he thought they were, not as they actually were. Sure. And so the, a lot of the book is, is, is, um, you know, is, um, meditations on memory because I've always found it odd that people remember things falsely. And I know it's false because I'm in the story. Mhm. So a guy goes, "Remember that time you caught that big fish?" I go, "I never fished in my life." "It was a huge fish." I'm like, "I'm telling you, I've never caught, I've never gone fishing. I've never been in a boat." "Man, it was fun. We went and ate it in a cabin." I'm like, "Okay, whatever." You know, they're so convinced of it, you know, that even the person. And then I start to go, "I don't know, maybe I caught a fish." Like, you know, then my memory suddenly becomes, uh, suspect, you know. So, so a lot of the book is, uh, is, uh, sort of reflections on what memory actually is. And, uh, and how you look backwards and, you know, kind of what the past is, you know? Because it is, to me, faulty memory. Sure. And, you know, people say, "Live in the present," which is fantastic if you can do it. But on the other hand, who, who lives in the present? Alzheimer's patients. They do. That's absolutely true. And it's a nightmare. And here's an interesting thing. A person will go, like, if you could go to a, I'm gonna ask you a question, Chris. Okay. If you could go to the greatest, like, island of your choice and go with the most beautiful woman of your dreams and, uh, for a month, have a fantastic, uh, tropical paradise. Mhm. But in return, you don't remember any of it when you get home. Would you accept that bargain?" Ah, that's such an interesting philosophical question because it, it really divides people between who are going to live in the moment and who are doing things to remember the. I mean, I, well, people do. That's the interesting thing. People go, "I'm going to go to Hawaii and I'm going to get the best pictures to take them, bring them back." You know what I mean? Like, "Oh, that." I 100%. So they're going to go to a place in the future to, to record the past to, for, yeah. I completely. And, you know, in this decision, you have to make a month of your life goes by, right? That's gone. Do I recognize that there's a, a month hole in my life? Or I go, "I don't, how is it September? What happened to August?" Or, "Okay, so there is a gap." See, that's kind of a problem because I would feel like, "Well, I have some sort of neurological disorder. How could I just lose a month of my life?" And if. No, no, no. Forget about disorder. This is a Twilight Zone. Okay. This is a Twilight Zone. Comes up to you for a guy with your approval. Yeah. Um, yeah. You know, I think I would because I still feel like it'd be a great month. Yeah. It'd be a great month. And it would be a nice bonus to be able to remember that month. But then also the other side of it is, you know, that's. Does the other person? Does my wife also have? Well, I just got married, so I say my wife. Does my wife? Well, your wife is in it, too. As I was saying that, I was like, "I think Chris is married." You just got married. But does she remember it too? Or does it wipe from her memory? No. Was it wiped from everybody's memory? I still think you do it. I still think you do it. It's still a great month. Yeah. Yeah. You know, maybe it was a weekend. I'd be like, "There's three other people that even though they're not on mic exist." Yeah. Within the room. So, if you guys have a vote, would you vote? What would you do, Katie? You would do it. Deb. You would do it too. Would you not do it? I wouldn't do it. No. I'm just going to say no. Yeah. Because you just feel like if you can't recall the experience and it didn't happen, then it's useless. Yeah. I mean, it's basically, you're loosely probably plotting out what the storyboards were for Total Recall. Oh, that's basically the movie. It's like, you, the whole, the whole concept of the movie was they would implant memories of things that you didn't actually do, but you would remember. And so, you know, Schwarzenegger's character has this psychotic break because he doesn't know, you know, it's he's kind of acting out this thing that he was supposed to be a memory. I don't know. But it's like, it sounds great. It's that idea. There's, there's movies I don't watch because, you know, Arnold Schwarzenegger or something in there, and then they turn out like they're great. Like that was a good one. Yeah, that's a great idea. That's a fun movie. That's a fun movie. But I guess it's. So anyways, I guess I was thinking when I wrote "Based on a True Story" that, you know, that the past is faulty memory and the future is the great catastrophe to come. We know what the future is. So we don't want to contemplate that, right? And, uh, so then all we have is, is what we call the present, you know, which is obviously the past. Yes. Like what we've been doing for this time is, is not the present. It's all been the past. I recall for the recent past. It's a very recent past. Like that. I was trying to think of if you could, this could be a self-help thing or something. Uh, because all history, when you think about it, is ancient history. Once it's gone, it's gone. It doesn't matter if it happened 10 seconds ago or 10,000 years ago, right? It's got, it's no longer exists. So, if you could have that perspective, you know, like, uh, if you meet an 80-year-old man, you know, and, you know, only in country and western songs are they brokenhearted, but if you really, you meet actual 80-year-old men, you're like, "Do you remember ever remember a girl breaking your heart?" Like, you know, they don't, they don't remember anything about that. You know, they're just trying to get through the day. So if you could have that, if you could make yourself have instant perspective and go, "Well, what will I think in 10 years about this?" You know, you get so emotional after, you know, you get fired, so angry. And you go, "Well, in five years, I won't be angry, right?" I mean, it's basically A Christmas Carol. It's like you're, you're like, you're dealing with past, present, and future. [Laughter] I should have seen these films. Well, Christmas Carol was a book. Yes. You could have, you know, but it's, but that idea of, of projecting into the future and going, "Am I still going to care about this?" Oh, I know Christmas. I'm sorry. I know what you're talking about. Yeah. Yeah. I saw. I thought you meant another. Yeah. I thought. I've seen Christmas Carol. I saw Rich Little's Christmas Carol. Did he do all of the? Of course he did. Characters. Now. And Carrie Grant's the ghost of Christmas. Okay. Yeah. It was Paul Lynde as Tiny Tim. Wouldn't talk about his boy. Yeah. And, uh, anybody he could do. It didn't matter if they lived in the same era. No, no, no, no. Nixon was, uh, I always thought it was Nixon. Didn't sound anything like Nixon, but, yeah, Nixon was screwed, you know. "Why are you buying that goose?" You know, or whatever. This is a real thing. Yeah. Yeah. I think it might be on YouTube. Um, maybe she's going to look it up. Okay. Can we look to see if Rich Little's Christmas Carol, Rich Little's A Christmas Carol is on YouTube? Yeah. It's pretty fas. God blesses everyone. You know, I, I, I found a thing on YouTube and I told it to Howard Stern and then he mentioned it a few times and then it became sort of viral and it became that [ __ ] Rich Little is a Christmas Carol, 19 HBO, 198. What's what's that? That's Superman 2. Oh. Oh, that's an ad for Superman, too. There he is. Wait, wait. Dick Cavett. Well, that's Dick Cavett. Wait, what? What the hell is this? Boy, Rich Little's good. He looked just like that. Oh, there it is. Oh, there it is. There's all the, uh, well, this must be fascinating for the listeners. But there's a, a fantastic, uh, Yeah, I'm a kind of a Richard Nixon o-file and I'll watch anything with Richard Nixon because I find him fascinating. Yeah. And, uh, I kind of disagree with everybody else about Nixon, you know. I remember I was talking about Arianna Huffington before she was, before she had HuffPost, before she had an empire, like you. And, uh, I said, you know, uh, like, what's charisma, you know? Because they say, you know, Kennedy had charisma, but Nixon had none. And yet, if I'm flipping through the channels and I see Nixon, I stop and I listen, you know, I find him fascinating and intriguing. So, isn't that charisma? His ass on the air to her and she goes, "What are you, stupid if you think that?" "She must be stupid." I'm like, "Well, you're the one that married the gay guy." She married a gay guy. That's, that's what she was famous for at the time, before, before starting her empire. Did you know that? I didn't. Yeah. She had married a guy and then she married a, it was kind of a, you know, a marriage of convenience to get Arianna more, uh, publicity, you know. His name was Michael Huffington. Oh, right, right, right. Gotcha. So, uh, but he, he was open. I'm not, you know, I wasn't like out. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. No, but yeah. So, I find Nixon to be just a fant, you know, I think I think charisma just on the topic. I think charisma is about presence. You know, like you can tell when someone's present in the moment. Yeah. And that's an attractive quality because I think it's a thing that most people, cuz if you're present in the moment, you must have a reason for being present in the moment and therefore you must have answers to questions that people have. So I think that's a. What does present in the moment mean? I mean, like, you can tell that someone is locked in to what's going on. You know, like if someone's having a conversation with you, they're paying attention. They're looking you in the eye. Do you believe you're present in the moment right now? Right now, I am. Do you believe I am? I believe you are as well. I believe that, too. But I also, I also know that there are times where I just drift, you know? It's like, "Oh, I'm thinking about, I got to turn this." How amazing is it that you can read like eight pages of a book and got to reread them? Isn't that bizarre? You're turning the pages. You're reading the words and your mind the whole time is thinking about another thing that happened because one word triggers your brain and then that just all of a sudden that word becomes like a ball of yarn to a cat in your brain where you just spin off and then. But why do you keep rereading it though? Because your body is just on autopilot. I guess your body instead of. It's interesting that your brain can automatically do things. It's almost like women in that you see in factories, you know, and their their hands are moving by themselves like, you know, they're doing things and they can talk with their friends and or even knitting or something. That's just all muscle memory, but your brain can't focus on more than one thing at a time. And that's just it can't. There's no such thing as multitask. You can't. You cannot purely multitask. You can do a bunch of things at once if they're sort of, you can stop doing one thing and then do another thing and then go back to the, or like that if your hands are, but you cannot focus on more than one thing at a time. No, it's, it's impossible. And I think that is, you know, and if you're doing it like you say automatically, I mean, that's the same thing as saying you're multitasking if you're speaking and digesting food. Sure. You know what I mean? Right. That digesting of the food is a. I read a great thing called the, the second brain, the, the gut, the second brain. It was like fascinating how your, your digestive system works on its own without the, without the necessity of a brain. And even if the brain was cut out, the digestive system would continue. Oh, wow. Yeah. It's. Well, they're even talking about using the gut bacteria as a therapeut, as a treatment for obesity because they, it's b, they're basically doing a poop transfer. They're putting, they're scooping out stool and they can, you know, put it in another. The, the idea being that this bacteria is healthier and will create more balance in your, in your gut. There's a lot of stuff happens. So, what do they do? They spear that? They scoop the. I like to think two people just put their butts up against each other. Oh, it's a transplant. It's a transplant. So, they scoop the stool. It's like gut bacteria. Yeah. And they transplant it into another person. The theory being that that just creates a healthier balance. But it used to be a hobby of mine. Yeah. Never thought, I never thought of it. That's therapeutic. Now, now you feel better. Now you know you're doing it for science. The guy that, uh, that, you know, um, just looked at the piece of bread with mold on it and, uh, invented penicillin. I could do something with that. I bet that would help sick people. Yeah. But I also think the, yeah, but I would never go, "Hey, this, this stool I've scooped from my buddy's." But I should put this in my stomach. Yeah. I shouldn't have fun with it. I probably should throw this away, to be honest. I should probably not even sure why I'm holding on to this. A bad habit. That's another thing life is. It's funny when you do an autobiography because you think, you know, you reflect on your life. And I really think habits are, are everything. You know what I mean? And if you have bad habits, you're in trouble. Sure. But if you consciously say, "I'm going to have good habits," your life just gets so much better. You know, you go, "I'm going to drink water. That's going to be my habit. Instead of smoking cigarettes, I'm going to drink water." And of course, the bad habits are easier, you know, and to fall into and everything like that. But I, I know there's addictions also and stuff like that. I mean, I, I don't know, you know what I mean? I don't really know because I don't know if research has been done where, you know, they say something's an illness because an illness, um, I don't know why they use that word, really. Because an illness is something that you can be treated with, you know, um, narcotics or penicillin or antibiotics, you know. And, and, you know, just calling a, it might just be a bad choice. Like it might just be a bad habit. You might not be compelled to do it. You know what I mean? First of all, it's fun to do. You never hear of people getting addicted to, uh, terrible things. You know what I mean? Well, that's not true. As soon as I said it, I love the instant backpedaling. Well, actually, but they think it's good. Well, I think if it's bulimia or something like that, right? Well, I, I also think that pleasure from this idea that, uh, about how you can only focus on one thing. A lot of, I think a lot of bad habits form because people are trying to distract themselves from that one, you know, like that thing that they can't stop focusing on. That is, well, that thing would be your mortality, I suppose. I mean, if you were just all alone with nothing to do, I think that's where your mind would go, right? And I think the more stuff you can do, the least, a little lesser you can think of that, you know. And that must go all the way back to what we were talking about with your dad retiring and just sitting around and being like, "Well, now it's just mortality all day, every day." Exactly. And it's right there, you know. You know, I, I, I tweeted, uh, Richard Dawkins, a famous atheist. I know he is. And, uh, of course, he just thinks I'm a [ __ ] you know, because he went to Cambridge and I dropped out of high school. But I asked him, I said, you know, "Why does life insist?" And they didn't understand. What's that? What's that mean? I'm like, "Well, it means I thought he was like smart." So I said, "Why does, why does life? Need to create other life? Why does life have to, why do you have to procreate? Why do you have to live and fight to stay alive?" Yeah. Fight to stay alive and make sure that your, that your genes stay alive. Why do you have to do that? You know, why if nothing matters, wouldn't the obvious thing to do be go extinct? You know what I mean? To me, that would be the clear and, and obviously self-evident thing to do. And, you know, in fairness to Richard Dawkins, he said, "Oh, well, that's a philosophical question that, uh, I, you know, I'll, I'll ask my friends and I'll try to get back to you." So it was very nice. But, um, but I think it lies at the heart of theology, you know. And, you know, and people of faith, especially in this town, you know, they'll say, "You believe in an invisible man in the sky," and, you know, they already throw on you their ideas of what you believe in, you know. Although you could, they don't know what you believe. You know, they don't know what you think of as God, you know. But the one question that always bothered me and always bothers any everybody is, "How can children die if there's a benevolent God, right?" And how can the six million go through the chimney at Birkenau, you know? Mhm. And, and this, so this is a question that I think I have an answer for, cuz I think a lot about this kind of stuff because I'd really like there to be a God. I don't know at all, but I really would like there to be a God. Mhm. Cuz Sarah Silverman told me, she's like, "So you really believe in?" I go, "I'm trying." You know, she's like, "You believe in an invisible man in the sky?" You know, she says it that way. So I'm like, "Well, whatever you want to say it that way." So she's like, "Well, good luck with that." I'm like, "Well, it's, it's good luck for you, too." You know, it's not, it's not like your, your idea of like being thrown on the ground, having dirt tossed on you is such a beautiful, great idea, you know? It doesn't, that doesn't bother me. Dirt thrown on you forever. I mean, yeah, because I just sort of feel like it's probably just a blissful state of non-existence that I had before. Boy, I'm going to be really, be a huge bummer if that's not the case. But if you have a blissful state of non-existence, then you. You're talking about an afterlife. Well, okay, blissful is probably the wrong word. I just meant I'm not aware of anything, you know? I think it'd be great if there was something, but if there's not, I think the worst thing would be your consciousness lives on, but there's nothing. So, you just feel, you know, "Oh my god." Yeah. Well, that, yeah, that would be hell, I suppose. I mean, Nabokov, I think was the guy who said like he saw a picture of himself, um, I'm sorry, he saw a picture of his parents and his parents, um, had his older brother and his, uh, and his mother had his older brother in her arms, and his mother and father and his older brother, but he had not been born yet. And he said he felt no grief or terror at, at that picture. Sure. Where he didn't exist. Right. So, I thought that was very interesting. Like it's what you're saying, you know, that why be afraid of not existing? Because it's not really you that dies, it's the world that dies. Sure. And, and you know, everything there is, everything there is. And everything. I mean, I think it would be fantastic if there was some sort of a a transformation of, oh, this is a conservation of emotional energy that, you know, once your emotional energy forms, it can't ever be destroyed and it just disperses into the universe somehow and you're a part of this thing that is you can't comprehend now, but once you're there, you'll totally get it. It's hard to, it's very hard to believe, but it'd be great if that were the. And I don't, and of course, it would be great. It, I don't fault anybody. Here's my answer for the, for the chimneys. Um, here's what I believe. If there is a God and if he is good and if he created, uh, the universe and the earth, then an all-good being, what can he create? He can't create good because that would just be expansion. So all he can create is bad. So he creates bad and then in a cool twist, the bad that he creates is allowed itself in a godlike way to create good from the bad because originally he created, God created good from the bad, then bad from the good. And then, um, he gives man the, uh, the exact opportunity. So just from a standpoint of logic, which, you know, is what atheists always try to say, I believe that there is an answer for, for the question of why God allows horrors. And that's what I come up with. But, um, you know, I have a, I have a, um, a rabbi who I talk to a lot. I'm not Jewish. No. McDonald's. No. I was for a year. But, um, he's the guy that knows, you know, he's a scholar, you know, like my, my pastor doesn't know anything. Like he's just, just a, you know, pleasant guy and he has. You should probably look that up. Hey, what is there? Hey, I mean, you know, I know if you ask him a direct question, you know, Huh? What? Didn't you hear my sermon? And the sermon's always like, you know, how to be a nice fella, you know, or something there. It's all this nonsense. But this pastor, I phone this pastor because I read, I try to read the scriptures and study them. Last week, I asked.

This p, this priest, I'm sorry, this rabbi. I was saying like in the Old Testament, they have the Lord's Prayer. And in the Lord's Prayer, he says, uh, lead us not into temptation, uh, but deliver us from evil. And I asked, I said, how could God lead us into temptation? It's without his boundaries, you know, without his fence. God can't do that. If I'm correct about the God of the Old Testament, he cannot. It's not in his nature. You know, the devil can, but not God.

So, uh, the devil's hard to believe in. I This of all the religions you get, it's hard to say one's worse than the other, you know, but I can say with all belief that there's one religion that's just not true, and that's the church of Satan. I think it even purports to be not true. Like, it's like, you know, there's a guy that's bigger than me. Well, I think some of them I think also I think some of the people who are and I don't know I can't speak for everyone, but just some of the stuff that I've seen online I think I think some people adopted as kind of a counter like okay well you guys have that guy over there with the beard and then we have this guy and everyone every and we're we should all be accepting it's not just that one or just like you know sometimes I think it's but do you really want to have a personal relationship with the devil a guy you No, it's the only religion where there's a a bigger, stronger guy outside, you know, of the that they that the Satanists say exists. Sure. Yeah. But they say we're going to go with the with the guy who was Well, cuz that guy like, you know, that guy wasn't popular. He got cast out. So, we're going to be with this guy over here cuz maybe that's maybe he's an outlaw. Yeah, he's kind of an outlaw. He was definitely the original outlaw.

Look, I don't want to say the too many good things about the devil, but I guess he was now that you say it, you know, he was the original really thought about it before, but I guess now Yeah, he was the original guy who got kicked out of the party, you know, like who hasn't who doesn't relate to that? Exactly. You know, it's like big popular guys having a party. There's naked people running around, you know, there's snakes and apples. There's a beautiful garden. It's like, yeah, they got kicked out, you know. Come on. Everyone knows what that feels like. It's funny like you know people think that whatever your religion you are Christian or whatever that you're so self-righteous but actually you know they feel they're sinners you know when I was a Christian I would sin all the time and uh like I eat apples that's on page one of the book worst possible thing you could do and so but anyways Uh, right now I'm uh I'm of no faith, you know. I have But you're looking for answers. Yeah. Yeah, I'll find something, you know. Um I'm probably close closer to Judaism right now than anything else. But um but I like to laughter is so important to me, you know. I'm talking about me laughing. Sure. Not hearing other people laugh, right? Uh but uh but me laughing because I'm so emotional uh and so sensitive that um I can be broken, you know, and I know I can, you know, and um and so laughter is what what keeps me it really keeps me going, you know, and I'm lucky to have to be able to, you know, there's people in comedy I've met that don't laugh. Oh, right. Yeah. And I don't know if it's a power move or not, but you know, they'll look through your sketch. Yeah, there's some Oh, that's funny. Well, you didn't laugh. Yeah. Be funny if they see, you know, rule one. It might be insecurity. I don't know what it is. I mean, I know people that aren't funny become professional comedians. I know that. Sure. And uh you know, uh they go to to Harvard University, you know what I mean? With the express purpose. And I met the old Harvard guys, you know what I mean? because Jim Downey for instance is still at was still at Saturday Night Live when I was there and he took some arcane thing that I never heard of, you know, uh subject and him and Sean Kelly and Odon were all the same. And then on their spare time, they're super geniuses and they go and write a hilarious thing for the lampoon. Sure. Uh, and then they got into comedy, but now guys expressly go to Harvard, take any subject just so they can be at the lampoon all the time and then go for the Simpsons. Yes. So they get into that pipeline of uh and they're not funny, you know, they're just uh I was so u I don't know if you ran into Harvard people when you first got here to Los Angeles, but writers, a great deal of writers are Harvard people. Sure. And that scared me so much cuz I I never graduated high school and Harvard, you know what I mean? So I what I expected were guys with pipes and dogs at their feet and you know just the smartest people ever and they weren't. And then I I found out they were just rich. They had they had money. Like their parents had money. It's it's pretty unfair.

You know what's funny to you? You mean who's funny? Yeah. Like what what what type of stuff is funny? Tons of stuff. I'm glad to hear that. Tons of stuff. Yeah. Oh, no. I I love laughing. So I watch Brian Rean. you know, he's probably he's [ __ ] amazing. My favorite like super for super laughing, you know, like I love Louis CK. Uh and uh but I don't know where I place him because uh Brian makes me laugh way harder, you know, and uh and also, you know, completely clean. It's like right magical, you know. I don't know how he I really don't know how he does it. And um I love like uh I watch uh I try to get my kid to watch try to get somebody to watch a silent movie nowadays. Imposs you go. No, you got to look at the screen the entire time. You're not looking. No, you're definitely not looking. Yeah. No, I have people go I go to the bathroom just keep it playing. Like in movies I go keep it playing like you know. But that [ __ ] drives me crazy cuz when those people come back it goes okay keep it playing and you keep it playing. They come out they go what happened? Like but I would have paused it. who said keep it plain. Like they they can figure it out when they get back. Well, that's also kind of a little bit of a power move to say like your thing's cute, but I get it. Probably right. I mean, you know, whenever you That's the thing. Like I have a kid. Whenever you push something, it never works. You know what I mean? You say something's real funny and uh of course it it doesn't work. But there's so many great um uh comedies and uh you know um with Netflix, you know, they had Fargo and uh you know, a lot of the a lot of things that made me laugh the most in popular culture are not called comedies. Cuz I think once you call a movie comedy, you're kind of pegged in. You're kind of in trouble. Sure. Because then that's that oh laugh, you know, two laughs a page or whatever it is. Whereas if you just call it like I met Tarantino and I said I think your movies are comedies personally. I'm never emotionally uh drawn in at all. Like I would never cry at one of your movies. They're to me giant cartoons. And he agreed. I don't know if he actually agreed in his head but you see he agreed with his words. Uh because I said you know you're lucky like as in a comedy it has to be so fastpaced. Joke. But you get to, you know, get Chris Christopher Walkan talking for, you know, five minutes about putting the a pocket watch up his ass, you know, and and and setting up this great joke, you know, where people aren't expecting it, you know, because it's supposed to be a right Tarantino uh movie. So, um but he obviously has has comic uh aspirations. It was very funny when he hosted Saturday Night Live because you act different around directors because I can give you give you work of course. So everybody's trying to look interesting, you know, like I was trying brooding in the corner. Do a lot of extra character work. I was standing beside uh I did the same thing. I was sitting beside Annie Leitz, the photographer. So you know, right beside her in an airplane. So she'd hardly ever look at me, but I try to look like super like torture. I want to photograph that guy. He says he has a story to tell. What's going on behind that? Just do it for the money. He just brushed his hair back for It's not even windy in here. I don't even know what he was doing, but I just need to take a like she's just going to hold that. start snapping pictures on the on the but you you it's funny how you act towards people when they you know like uh we probably both had this and you've had uh enormous success. So now you're in a different class when it comes to money. And I I f I find in my personal life, money separates people and um it's just weird to go to a guy's giant mansion and you don't have a giant mansion, you know, so you can't really invite them to your place, you know, and uh so mostly you just got to walk around go, "Whoa, what's that?" You know, how much that picture cost? You know, you're like this rube. And uh and then he has other rich people now. He's got rich friends also, you know, he's got you and then he's got super rich friends. Uh, and so I don't know. I don't know if it's a class thing, but you know, like I my father would always go, you know, why why don't the black guys, you know, get pull their bootstraps out and get out of the ghetto, you know, but they're comfortable in the I don't know if they're still ghettos, but this is where they live and this is where, you know, uh their their family is and their friends and they're going to leave, you know, to try to make it with like one time I went to England and there was a comedian that came to Canada and uh he said if you come to England, you know, come and visit me. So, I went to England cuz I I did they did had a comedy show back then. And uh I said, "I'll visit this guy." I go to his house. It's a castle. Like, he forgot to tell me. He's so super rich. So, it was one of those goddamn long tables like you see in the movies and the the butlers and [ __ ] and uh and the soup. And then you're like, you feel so uncom. You're a comedian. Yeah. Oh, they're talking like like from the movies, you know, and uh you can hardly make them out that I'm talking about the parents, you know, and I was never more uncomfortable. But then a super funny thing happened. Um they had a a dog uh they had two little poodles, you know, and then they were running big fight, you know, down Scampy, whatever the hell their name was, you know, down Louis the 14th. And uh so we look over and we're all, you know, they're all fancy. I don't have any good clothes, but they're all super fancy. The butler's there and everything. And then uh one of the dogs is eating the other dog's [ __ ] because gut bacteria. Yeah, exactly. Trying to get a create more. They're rich. The dogs the dogs have no idea how much money they're worth, you know. But but I bet their dog [ __ ] was a better meal than most Americans have. Yes. Every night. More protein. That's probably true. But it but so class is very hard to to just jump into the next rung and try to you know they talk different they act different you know it's really hard to uh you know even money won't do it sometimes you know what I mean like you can't just give if you win a lottery ticket you can't hang out in New York with money to people in the Hamptons they're not going to accept you so uh you know class uh there's still class and and uh you know Um, it's it's very hard to uh it's very hard to not want to be with your buddies and your family. Yeah. I mean, I just I think it's all just a it I think shiny things are fun. Yeah. But, you know, but I've had Well, you laugh. I do. Yeah. I've had many periods yourself. I love Yes. And I love comedy the same as you know, like I like just like what you're saying. I feel exactly the same. I'm a big laugher. I like to I don't know why you would watch comedy if you weren't going to appreciate it. Yeah, I don't either. You know, so I you know I don't know.

Well, you have like the perfect job to to get to uh you laugh at this. Uh I love watching and I and I love watching my friends be exactly who I know they are, which you know, it's like watching your friends do. I guess that's part of the supportive thing you were talking about. It's like yeah, you know, we're all doing the same stuff. And to watch someone kill the way that they can kill and to see people watch it's great. You know, it's really it's watch really badly. I I when I was I can't do it anymore because people recognize me. But when I was starting out, my favorite thing was to go to amateur night or open mic because, you know, 75% of them are mentally ill, you know, and so then, you know, they're out on the street ranting and they go, "Oh, I can go inside." You know, and uh so uh you know, they're just unintentionally very fine. I don't know if it's cruelty, but god damn, it makes me laugh. I just Are you performing anywhere anytime soon? Um, are you like getting up regularly? Oh, no. Yeah, I'm stopping a little bit, you know, because I went crazy. I couldn't say no, you know? Right. And two years ago, I did 46 weeks. Jesus Christ. That's too much. That's too much. I did one time like uh um so so many weeks in a row when I was starting out when I first came to America. I said I'll just do every week, you know, get to be the strongest comedian ever. I started to get nervous and anxious and maybe I was losing my mind a little bit, you know. And I read a story about a guy named uh Dick Shawn. Oh yeah. You know the story. Yeah. I don't know the story, but I know that I know the guy. Yeah. He was in um the producers. He played the guy who wrote the the Springtime for Hitler. So uh anyways, I read an article that said, you know, here he was this fantastic impro improvisational performer apparently. So he went on stage and he destroyed, you know, for the first half. Then there was intermission, but right before the intermission, he had a real heart attack, but people in the audience thought it was not a real, right? So he fell down and they had a laughing, you know. Can you imagine like the worst thing they could? And they're like, he said, "No, no." And the imagine just hearing laughter, you know. So it got in my head this story because I was kind of losing my mind. I was afraid of everything. I was afraid of something happening to me. I don't know why, but uh so I I then I thought that's going to happen to me. You know, you're going to have the heart attack. Yeah. Because I got very nervous before I went on stage. So I thought, well, you know, nerves can lead to stress, which can lead to a heart attack. That's not unreasonable. So, uh, I go on stage. I go on stage and I tell the audience, I go, "Listen, you know, there's this guy Dick Sean and he had a pretended to have a heart attack and everybody ignored him and laughed. If that happens tonight with me, it will be an actual heart attack." So, after I say that, everyone laughs and I'm like, "Oh, fuck." In my head, I'm like, "Now I've done an even worse thing." Now, they really think it's a joke. Yeah. Now, if I had a heart attack, so then I go, "No, no, folks. No, no." I go, I know now. It looks like I'm if I have a heart attack later that this is a joke that I set up now. I go, no, no. Uh, it's definitely I can't strongly enough emphasize that it will be a real heart. And now people are going, "Okay, we understand, but what the [ __ ] It's the unfunniest thing we've ever heard." And uh, so I never recovered. And uh and then I remember at the end of the show a guy came up to me goes I you know I like the I didn't like much of it but I liked the first part but you at the end you should have pretended to have a heart attack. And I was like no no it's the opposite of what I was saying. So then I I quit. I got off the road and I said I need like a couple months off because uh you know you start forgetting where you are or what day it is what it's like to be a human. I want I want to when you start performing again, will you please let me know so I can come see? I would love to I would love to come see I would love to come see it. Well, maybe we'll all do a show or something. That'll be really fun. That'll be really You know, it's good to go to that comedy magic club where everyone likes you no matter what you say. Yeah. I mean, the comedy store has been fun. The comedy store has been really fun. Which room? The main room. Oh, what's that one? That's the big room. They just like they just That room's awesome. It's It's going tough. It can be tough. Yeah, it can be tough. Like if it's, you know, if you go have a late spot in the middle of the week, it can be I think my friend Adam Eaggan who was a manager is responsible strong because I've seen him like, you know, I'll be with Spade and he'll go like if you ever want to do sets really done an incredible job there. It It is such a great There's so much energy there. It's so lively. It's really great. It's Adam Eaggan. Adam's done great. And then and then the improv also has like stepped up, too. It's actually a really good time for comedy in LA. It is a good time. And you know, I was there for the first comedy boom, you know, but that one sucked because uh you know the they would just put comedy everywhere, right? And comedy doesn't work everywhere. And now it's they put you know the guys do their own shows people you know the kids do their own shows in the back of a pizzeria or something and it's a great crowd and you know stuff like that. But um but back in the oh my god in that first comedy boom I remember there was one time it was in Ottawa was me and another comedy a comedy named Jeremy Hots. We were the only Jeremy. Yeah. So we were the only two Ottawa comics. So uh um the manager goes, "We got you a New Year's gig." It was huge New Year's gig, you know, cuz we were making $15 a spot. And the New Year's gang was paying $50 for each of $50 for me and $50 for Jeremy. So, we were very excited, you know. So, they said, "Go to the Chateau uh Laurier, which was the biggest hotel in Ottawa, to the McKinnon room, you know, and uh so we're like, okay." So, we go, we're real nervous, you know, we show up and it's and we say to the lady like, "Yes, can you tell us where the McKinnon room is?" There's no McKinnon room, you know. So anyways, it turns out to be a room in the hotel that a guy named McKinnon, you know. So it's like, so we go to this, they give us the key. Oh yes, Mr. McKinnon gave you this key to go. So we go up to the room in 402. So we open the door. It's empty. It's got like platters of food and stuff. And so then a guy comes in, you know, we're really like nervous. And uh the guy goes, "Hi, Bill McKinnon." you know, and he goes, he goes, "I'm doing a thing for New Year's for my friends, magical mystery tour." And I take them to all these sites, you know, and we're going to go to the canal and skate on the canal and we're going to go get some taffy at the taffy shop. Then we're going to come here third and you're going to be the comedians. So we're like, "Oh god." Oh yes, of course. Yeah, that's good. And uh so they go, "So they're going to come in and eat. You know, we have food for them and to drink and then you'll come out and then so we where we come out. You have to hide, you know. So Jeremy, he he was the MC. He hid behind a curtain like in a inspector movie. Yes. He hid behind a curtain. I hid in the bathroom with the light off. So anyways, now you hear people come in, oh Christ, it's pitch black in this bathroom and people are drinking and eating and then people are trying to get in the bathroom. You know, what the hell? You know, they can't get in the bathroom and I'm like all afraid in the dark. And so finally I hear like Jeremy, you know, just jump out and I hear his act and he hasn't changed his act at all, you know, for the circumstances cuz we were not savvy enough to do such a thing. And so he he does his his real act. And then he introduces me and I come out of the bathroom and there's six guys all angry because they're waiting for the bathroom. I go out to do my act and uh and everyone has a like a penis noses. Oh yeah, of course. Yeah. Like so I'm like in the middle of them like a like clockwork and then a woman like hits me. I my first joke she hits me with a penis nose. I'm like oh god damn. But this is the worst. This is the one I should have told you. I went to I went to a ski chalet. This was a corporate gig. And so I you know I I show up at the ski chalet and there was a thing. It was a pesticide company and they had sent me like for weeks all this pamphlets on pesticides as if I was going to, you know, read them all and create an act from this, you know. So uh I I go I show up at the at the ski chalet and I'm all nervous. I meet the guy and he's like he's like here's the plan. I got a great plan. And like an idiot, I always used to go yes, you know, instead of no. He says there's a guy in in New York, you know, this company, it's called Aerial, you know, Aerial Pesticides, but there's a wonder kid in New York that just started, you know, he's in advertising and he's a whiz kid. We're lucky to have him, you know, and I'm like, "Oh yeah, I'm just agreeing with everything." He's like, "But the thing is nobody's seen him yet. He lives in New York, you know, we're all here in Quebec. So, he's like, I thought it'd be a hilarious idea to have you pretend to be him. So, I'm like, "Yes, that would be great." Like, I'm a complete idiot, you know. I said, I agree. Keep agreeing with him. And so, he's like, "You want something to eat?" And I'm like, "Yeah, sure." Goes, "Come on." You know, so he takes me and then he takes me in. There's like all the people like he takes me into the the room and I'm not prepared. And then we sit at this main table and he goes, "This is uh this is Bill uh you know Henderson from New York. You all know him." Everybody's like, "Oh yeah, Bill. Heard a lot about you." I go none of it was too bad, you know. And I just try to avoid any specific questions they had, you know, anything that go anyways. Good chicken. And uh so uh the guy goes up and he goes, "Listen, folks, you you all have heard of Bill Henderson, you know, and we're all excited. Well, what a treat we have. We got him here, you know, uh it's the first uh aerial franchise uh aerial pesticide franchise uh to meet this uh Bill Henderson." So here he is everybody, Bill Henderson. So, I go up and I now I have no like um I don't know how to change my act. I'm too too green, you know. So, I just launch into my act. I don't know what I was talking about. And uh you know the joke about murder she wrote or something. I I think it was diagnosis murder. It was diagnosis murder. I remember it's my first joke. And so, everybody's kind of puzzled, you know, no one's really laughing. And so I I talk for about five minutes and then I hear a guy go he's like enough with the jokes. I'm like I'm all afraid. And then the idiot that thought up the idea, he runs on. He puts his armor on. He goes, "We've been having a little fun with you." It was no fun at all. He goes, "We've been having a little fun with you." He goes, "This isn't Bill Henderson at all. It's Nor McDonald." Which means nothing. It's just a different name than Bill Henderson. He goes, "It's Nor McDonald. He's a comedian. You after them not laughing at me for five minutes. Uh, okay. Here he goes. And he runs away again. That sucks. Oh, it was the worst. And so then they were openly hostile after that. Like I try to trick them, you know, and I remember going I mean, you know, this is so strange to say in a stand up set, but I'm like, it was his idea, you know, it had devolved so badly that people yelling at me. I'm like, what about him? You know, he he shares some responsibility for this. And uh and then I had to stay in the night because my contract off for me. You know when guys like they don't know it's better to maybe send you to your hotel room and you know but in the contract it said I had to you had to stay there. Stay. So that guy's like well you got to stay you know even though it's an it sounds like a kids in the hall sketch. It sounds like exactly we're going to put this one over on antenn Oh now you got to stay. Boy, you know I started out kids in the hall. I'll never forget it because I I worked with Bruce McCulla who he was a standup and he was in the sketch show. I knew all of them, you know. Yeah. And boy, I I loved the way they did women, you know, the way they did right were so spot on and funny. But uh but I liked all of them. I was good friends with all of them. And uh and I never forget they I was so envious. you know, they went to New York and then all of a sudden they're on the cover of uh um Rolling Stone, the future of comedy. And that was back when magazines used to do like 25 page, you know, stories. And I was like, "Wow, like the future of comedy." And uh you I've talked to them and they've said like the Bruce thinks the worst idea they ever had was call themselves the kids in the hall because then they aged you know and they had this name but so did you like the kids in the hall? Loved that's what you grew up on. Well I grew up I mean I watched every comedy everything but the kids in the hall was definitely I liked a lot of I liked a lot of British and Canadian comedy because tonally it was just a little bit different. I mean there was good American stuff. I like American standup, but I liked a lot of the British and I liked Canadian SCTV. Yeah. Yeah. I think like America is uh is great for standup is by far the best in standup. You know, you go to that Montreal Comedy Festival and people from all over the world and only the Canadians are I mean only the Americans are funny, but but uh British and and uh uh British and Canadians uh with Sketch are are much better. Spectacular. Yeah. Yeah. And like kids in the hall was right up there with Monty Python for me, you know.

Will you please let me know when you're doing stuff? Yes. Yes. Maybe you'll do it too though. I would. We'll get Bob Saget. I would do it. I would absolutely. But now I'm self-conscious cuz cuz some of my my material lately was a little confessional. But but uh but wait wait wait. Well, it might not be confessional in a way that I don't like. It might be okay. Just after every juggle, after every juggle, just go know him. I'll just be really Well, you know what? It's not fair cuz I only saw one guy. I know. It was bad. And Rich Shiner told me there was a thing called confessional comedy, which I didn't know. It's very true. It's very true. Yeah, it's very true. And so, uh, so yeah, I just won one guy. So, it's really unfair of me to have any decision. But people should pick up your book, just an old man. Based on a true story, a memoir, Nor McDonald, Forward by Lou. Louie was so nice. Louie cuz I you know they ask because you get guys your friends say you know it's the worst when they ask you that. You ask your friends and you're like I'm like no please I don't want to do that. Will you write a thing? What do I write? I don't know. Like don't you guys know anyone? Like I love I love Yeah. They didn't know anyone. They're like you have his phone. I go I don't what can't you find anyone's phone number? There's sort of an understanding of of the apology request, which is two paragraphs of I know this is dumb. I'm so sorry. I am sorry for asking you to do this. I don't blame you. If you never want to speak to me again, would you please again? I know how shitty, you know, we're just we don't want to. No, I was so he was so fantastically sweet like cuz he knew that he knew exactly what you were saying. He knew that took all the pressure off. That's what I was say. Yeah. Yeah. And he said, "No, no." He said, "I'll uh" He was nice. He said, "I I'll I'll write it and I won't have to lie." So, he was very, very nice. That's great. And he reminded me of it because he talked about when he first met me, which I have forgotten, but then I remembered and a very funny thing happened that night. Do we have one more moment? Sure, one more moment. Absolutely. Um I'm sorry. I I I keep talking. I don't mind. Listen, I I absolutely It's first of all, it was a shock to me that you remembered who that we had met before. Oh, sure. Of course I remember. And that you I don't know. I just I didn't know what to expect. We you know, we haven't really talked at length. No, no, no. And so I don't know if you're like I got to do this podcast thing just to It was really pleasurable talking to you. I remember meeting you. I remember well. Yeah. Shows. shows. Enjoy your burrito, everyone, baby. Great way to end it. All right, you're okay, baby. Now leaving nerdist.com. Enjoy your burrito. This episode of the Nerdist podcast was brought to you by CISO. Have you ever seen those real estate shows and you think, "How much would you like to make fun of those?" Well, now you don't have to. CISO did it for you. Watch the Beverly Hills real estate agents at Platinum Realy uh sell houses to the rich and famous bajillion dollar property stars Paul F. Tommpkins. Uh also a list of great guest stars including Zack Alifanakis, Nick Croll, Bizzy Phillips, Casey Williams, Jack Mcreer, Patton Oswalt, Randall Park, Dave Foley, Weird Al. Check it out. It's on CISO. Uh you can go over to seeso.com. Start your free trial. Use the promo code nerd to get two free months. CESO is available on all your favorite devices anytime, anywhere, completely adree. Thanks to CISO for sponsoring this cast.