Transcription
This is Democracy Watch. Mark, you and I have spoken at length about the whole issue of redrawing maps across the country. There are only a few states on the left, uh, where their maps can serve as a weapon to counteract what we've seen from Republicans, the gerrymanders that we've seen in Texas and Ohio and Missouri and North Carolina.
One of those states, one of those blue states is Maryland. But there is one Democrat who's standing in the way of all of this. So, can you talk about Bill Ferguson and how he is acting unilaterally as an impediment, uh, to seeing some action on this issue?
Yeah, his name is uh Bill Ferguson and he is the state senate president, uh, in Maryland, a Democrat. I don't know him personally. I don't think I've ever met him or spoken to him. Uh, but right now he is the person who is standing in the way of plans by Democrats to redraw the districts in Maryland. And to be clear, there is nothing that prohibits the Democrats in Maryland from redrawing their maps. Uh, and when I say there's nothing, there is no prohibition in federal law that prohibits them from doing it. There is no current prohibition in state law or state, uh, court law that that prohibits it.
Now, he cites to the fact that the state supreme court might could, you know, maybe say something negative if they did so. But, but, but here's the thing. We are at a break glass moment for democracy. We are not in the place where we have the luxury of not doing things that are politically easy, not doing things that are politically, you know, uh, what, what we think good government should stand for. We are at a place where either Donald Trump is going to impose an authoritarian, uh, regime, uh, because he's going to be able to keep control of Congress in 2026, or Democrats are going to stand up and fight back.
And the thing about this situation in Maryland, as far as I can tell, but you should correct me if I'm wrong, you know, Wes Moore, the governor, seems ready to fight. I, the Democrats in Congress, the congressional delegation, they seem ready to fight. It is only this, this guy in the states who runs the state senate who doesn't want to fight. And that seems like an odd, uh, an odd perch, uh, to be the one not willing to pull the trigger. But I do understand that he has had historic, uh, long-standing objections to this. But my message to him is get over it and don't blame the lawyers. You know, don't blame the courts. If your lawyers aren't willing to defend this in court, call me. I, I got some lawyers who will defend a redraw in court.
I should also note that it's not just Wes Moore who is open to this. And I've interviewed him twice on this issue. And both times he's expressed, uh, the fact that he is, that he is willing to move forward with a redraw of their map. But also the, uh, the speaker of the state house had come forward. And this is, uh, Adrien Jones, who wrote, and I'm going to put this right here on the screen, "Midcycle redistricting should concern anyone who cares about the health of our democratic institutions and the future of fair elections." "Closing the door now on the midcycle redistricting debate denies our constituents the opportunity to voice their opinion on an issue that goes far beyond their district lines. As I've stated before, my door remains open to my colleagues in the Senate and to the governor to jointly pursue efforts to protect our democracy."
So, it looks like Bill Ferguson is, is basically isolated in the state of Maryland here by virtue of, of coming out against this issue or closing the door to this issue. So, to, to what extent do you think that the pressure that folks are going to have from the governor's office, from the state house's office, and from the broader public, to what extent do you think that pressure is going to have some impact on Bill Ferguson here?
I hope it does because look, I mean, the fact is that both the speaker and the governor are African-American and both of them have come out in favor of this. So to the extent that, uh, Mr. Ferguson is expressing his concern for, um, for African-American voters in the state of Maryland, obviously the governor and the speaker don't agree. By the way, neither do apparently the members of Congress who represent those communities. To the extent that Mr. Ferguson is expressing concern about what the courts will do. You know, I'm not the only lawyer, but I'm as experienced a redistricting and voting rights lawyer as there is. And I'm here saying he ought to do this. And I speak not only, uh, uh, I'm not the only voice in here. There have been lots of Democratic lawyers who say this.
So, at the end of the day, he seems to just have an aversion to redrawing the maps. And I don't know if it's he doesn't like midcycle redistricting. I don't love midcycle redistricting. We're actually trying to prevent midcycle redistricting in a number of other states. I don't know if it is a misguided understanding of the law. I don't know if it is that it is politically inconvenient for him in some way, but like I said, we're at a moment in history where Democrats need to get over these things. And I think the, I think what we have seen in California is pretty instructive. I mean, every one of the objections that, that anyone in Maryland could have, you know, were objections that Gavin Newsom faced head-on. Yep.
I mean, Gavin Newsom had to worry about what it would mean for African-American voters. He had to worry about what it would mean for Latino voters. He had to worry about what it would mean for Democratic incumbents. He had to worry, by the way, what it would mean for the court system in, in, uh, in California, which is a very, uh, good government court. I mean, he had to manage all of those things in addition to, by the way, raising $100 million plus, plus getting it on the ballot, plus convincing people to vote for it. So, like, I mean, honestly, doing one seat in Maryland, a state which is overwhelmingly blue and which you actually don't even need to do a, a partisan gerrymander to draw a new map, right? I mean, like, like, we're not acting like, you know, this is a 50/50 state and he's being asked to zero out the last Republican. This is at least as Democratic a state as Massachusetts, which has an entirely Democratic, uh, delegation map. It is at least as, as Democratic as some of the Republican states that have, you know, overwhelmingly or entirely Republican delegations. So, I honestly, one of the reasons why you hear so much frustration in my voice is I can't understand what Mr. Ferguson's objections are.
Well, to that end, I think on the point about applying public, public pressure, I'm going to put the phone number to Bill Ferguson's office right here on the screen. If you haven't yet had the opportunity to call, it makes a difference. They log these calls not just at the congressional level but at the state legislative level as well. So his phone number is 410-841-3600. Look, we all have a say in what happens in our democracy. These people are not beyond reproach. We have the ability to apply pressure. This is what the democratic process is. And so if you haven't yet had the opportunity to call and you care about this issue, if you're passionate about this issue, in any way as passionate as Mark and I are on this issue because you recognize that this is foundational, this is the whole ballgame. If Republicans are able to entrench permanent control of the House, then democracy can't work after that, then give Bill Ferguson a call, give his office a call, and let him know how you feel about his opposition to this issue.
And let me add one other thing to that. I mean, if you're in, if you live in Maryland, you can call your own state senator, too. I mean, if you live in an area with a Democratic state senator, I mean, the state senate president works for the caucus as a whole, right? I mean, they're not like an island unto themselves. And so, call your own Democratic state senator and tell them to, to tell their leader to, to, to, to move forward. I mean, you know, ultimately, you know, whether Ferguson is responsive to his own constituents or responsive to his own caucus, like he does have to, he is a public, elected official who has, you know, responsibilities beyond his own views. And I think something else that you noted was that there are no prohibitions to Maryland redrawing its map. And you and I have spoken at length about, uh, the lengths that other states have had to go to to be really creative about getting this done. How California had a million reasons that they could have said no that they're not going to do it. And yet they figured out a way to get it done. That Virginia, uh, reopened a, a special legislative session that had been adjourned but not closed. And they used that to, to serve as one of the two necessary special legislative sessions where you have to vote consecutive times to amend the state constitution. They got that done. That required a lot of creative thinking and it's a roundabout way to get this done. In Maryland, it's so straightforward. And so, what does it say that in these other states where there were way more reasons to not do this, those Democrats recognized the urgency of the moment and got it done. And yet, we're sitting here having to make a video about a state where there aren't these obstacles. And yet, it's not happening there. And as I said, it is particularly puzzling to me because you have the legal community saying this is doable. You have the Democratic governor and the speaker of the house saying that they think this should be done. You have both of them and the congressional delegation who have very close ties to the African-American community. I'm not saying Mr. Ferguson doesn't. I don't know what his relationships there are, but certainly the, the, the, the African-American governor and speaker of the house, they, they know what that community's interests are or not, at least as well as Mr. Ferguson does. And so, you know, you have all of these people coming forward and saying this is doable and yet he seems to have his own set of criteria and it is inexplicable. And it's inexplicable for another reason. And I think this goes a little bit to the quote that you read from the speaker. You know, why take it off the table? I mean, like even if, even if that is your position, you know, right now my team and I, we are litigating, uh, in nine states. Okay? We're fighting Republicans in nine states over redistricting. I mean, we're fighting Republicans in 30 some odd, in 30 states around voting, but we're fighting Republicans every day in nine states. Ferguson didn't make our job any easier. You know, he didn't make our job any easier as we're litigating in other states. He didn't make the jobs of Democrats, by the way, in Indiana any easier. He didn't make the jobs of Democrats in Florida any easier. He didn't make the job of Democrats in Ohio any easier, right? Like, like, you know, why take it off the table? Like, you know, the reason why on day one when Donald Trump went to Texas, I came out and said Democrats should, should redistrict 30 Republicans out is because what that does is that puts something on the table that may give Republicans pause, right? And a, something to negotiate from. Every time a Democrat takes a state off the table, it just makes the rest of our jobs harder.
Right? And by the way, it shows the Republicans that their opposition is not willing to fight. And if there's no deterrent effect from Republicans, then what's to stop them from barreling ahead and doing exactly what they're doing right now? The only thing that's going to stop them is if there's, if there's a, a united front, but b, a sense of deterrence. So that if they do this, if they go ahead and redraw these maps in, in, in Ohio and Missouri and North Carolina and Texas like they're doing right now, that if there's no pushback to that, then what's to stop them from doing it in all of the other Republican states? What's to stop them from doing it in Florida? What's to stop them from, from going into the rest of the South and redrawing those maps? There needs to be some deterrent effect. And so when you have a Democrat that comes forward and and unilaterally disarms right off the bat and says, we're not going to be any impediment whatsoever to, to your fever dreams, then, then really these Republicans know that they have cart blanche to just do this with abandon.
Yeah. You know, look, I, I like, I said at the top end, I don't know Mr. Ferguson. I don't think I've ever met him. I have to believe he's a good Democrat because he got elected to be the state senate president. But he is not meeting the moment that we are in right now. Yeah.
If he is living in a world in which it is optional for states in which Democrats have factors to consider midcycle redistricting, then he's just living in a different world. I am, like, I'm living in a world in which Donald Trump is sending the military into American cities. He is, he is literally grabbing American citizens off the streets, beating them up and throwing them into the back of vans. Like, we are living in a world in which Donald Trump is cutting off health insurance for the poorest Americans. He is cutting off food assistance to the hungriest Americans. He is engaging in political prosecutions of his enemies. He is trying to crush dissent. He is intimidating the legacy media and, and large law firms to not fight back against him. He is getting millions of dollars of free legal services from them. He is targeting and getting the cooperation of the billionaire class to do his bidding. And so, like, that's the world I live in. And in that world, we got to do everything we can. We got to use every inch of, of power that we have. We've got to use every lever of leverage that we have. And the idea that a Democrat gives that up, I, I just cannot for the life of me understand it.
Yeah. Well, look, I, I think that for those who are watching right now, you're not hearing any of this talk from legacy media. This issue has gone largely ignored by legacy media. Mark has been an absolute leader in putting this into the forefront, not just from the media perspective, but as he mentioned, in nine different states across the country in the court. So, he's fighting these battles and informing everybody about what's going on. So, if you're not yet subscribed to Democracy Docket, which is the news outlet he founded to focus on everything voting elections, I'm going to put that link right here on the screen and also in the post description of this video. I will continue talking about this issue every chance I get. So, if you're not yet subscribed to this channel, please subscribe on this screen as well. I'm Brian Teller Cohen.
I'm Mark Elias.
This is Democracy Watch.
[Music]