Transcription
Towns is one of the best big passers in the entire NBA. And just watching how Mike Brown has used guys like Damont Sabonis in that kind of DHO hub kind of role, it's always just struck me as like Towns would look really, really cool in that role. I saw him with the most dribble handoffs that I've seen him have as a Nick. Tons of hockey assists.
I just think it's a matter of time until they click together. They're just going to keep pressing those buttons until these Carl Anthony Towns hub possessions where he's running DHO's and then these Brunson ISOs that they still sometimes lean into. They just flow naturally within each other and it feels natural.
We're talking about a dynamic where you can run stuff with beautiful flowing offense and somehow the defense plays perfectly and it doesn't work and then it's you have, you know, 7 seconds left and then you can flow into a Jaylen Brunson isolation with an advantage. Now it's like what was your primary way to score in past years? That's like your last option. And if you get to that point, how is it not one of the best offenses in the league, if not the best offense in the league, if not one of the best offenses ever? That's my question.
[Music] This is Hot Hand Theory. This is a podcast where we talk about the NBA and break things down from an analytical perspective. I'm your co-host, XJ. As always, I'm joined by my brilliant co-host, Jeff. Jeff, this is going to be the biggest season of Hotint Theory ever. I think that you know that. I know that. Hopefully, our audience knows that. If it's your first time here, make sure to subscribe. We have a lot of amazing stuff content coming all season. The most episodes we've ever done, the most videos we've ever done, the most video essays, the most articles, everything. It's going to be amazing. really excited for it.
One of those new things that we're doing today is we have a new segment that's going to be kind of towards the end of the show. It's called Hot Fan Theory. It's going to be where we, Jeff and I, talk about a comment that stood out the most to us from the previous episode. It got us the most thinking and reflecting. It could be something that we agree with or disagree with. Um, it could be something that is making us question a a view that we previously held, anything like that. So, if you don't already know, we reply to every single comment that is dropped in on the YouTube channel. So, if you're watching on YouTube, drop a comment as usual. Uh, if you happen to have some kind of insight or if you have a big uh agreement or disagreement with us, please let us know. We might pull it into the next episode. I think it's just another way we can have more mutual communication and can kind of learn from one another. Um, so that's just that's that's my announcement for this week.
But we have a lot of really exciting Nicks talk to dive into because the Knicks have seemed to turn things around and uh, you know, turning things around feels like an aggressive phrase given that so few games, but people are and were melting down about five games. But, you know, we got two games of of additional sample and we have a lot of great insights. One of which I think Jeff, there's only really one place to start. Normally, I throw it to you to to to to lead the ship and figure out where to start, but I don't know that there's another place to start outside of talking about Carl Anthony Towns, his performance, and not only his personal performance, but the way he was used in the most recent game that we saw against the Wizards. Is that where you want to start, or you think it's something else?
No, I think you have to start with Towns. Um, he was phenomenal against Washington in in a way that's so encouraging long term. Uh, I know you've been talking about it for pretty much his entire Knicks tenure that he's more than a shooter. He's more than a scorer. He doesn't need to be someone who is just shooting or attacking closeouts. There's so much more to him. There's so much more to his uh overall game. Uh, and I'm sure, you know, just to swing it back to you, you were excited by some of those assists, some of those hockey assists. Uh, a couple stood out to me, but yeah, I think that's definitely where we have to start.
Some have said that there's no uh there's no like unlocking Towns or Towns is just, you know, whatever Towns is this is the guy Towns is and all these kinds of things about Towns. Towns is a much maligned and polarizing player and like I understand that because I think there's just things about his game, things about his affect, you know, the the yelling, uh the defense for a guy at his size, some of the inconsistency that he has in terms of focus and concentration and and and and other things that we've heard about. And so I understand why he's sort of a polarizing figure, but to me, Towns is just one of the most unique offensive weapons in the game of basketball now or really in the past like while like I I just think he's so good and uniquely skilled and one of the ways he's uniquely skilled as you sort of alluded to in terms of not just his shooting obviously that everybody knows about that, but it is his passing. And that's something that I've talked about with Towns before the Knicks acquired Towns when they did acquire Towns and as Mike Brown has become the coach of the Knicks. Towns is one of the best big passers in the entire NBA. Um, and he just rarely gets any credit for it. It's actually really interesting. And just watching how Mike Brown has used guys like Damont Sabonis in that kind of DHO hub kind of role, it's always just struck me as like Towns would look really really cool in that role and is obviously a dramatically better shooter than Sabonis. And maybe people would disagree. Sacramento fans, hopefully you're not watching this. You're probably not watching this cuz you have a lot of things to deal with on your own end with your own house burning down. But um I think it's just a better passer than Damonte Sabonis as well overall. So seeing a lot of towns as like a hub DHO's I think I've seen I saw him with the most dribble handoffs and that I've seen him have as a nick in this most recent game against the Wizards. Like you mentioned tons of hockey assists. Uh just tons of being a big body who can pass and who who is highly skilled, who can be a three-level scorer, and being able to focus on him in a lot of different ways, not just as a spot-up shooter.
Before I throw it right back to you, the main thing that I wanted to say and like I don't I'm really curious what you think about this. Like to me, I feel like Mike Brown has had this view of towns as like a wing. like I feel like he he was playing him like interchangeably with guys like OG and Muel Bridges to some extent like as a wing in a lot of cases but we're starting to see him maybe challenge that view a little bit um in playing Towns as like that Deontto Sabonis big hub guy who can pass make all the passes make a tons make tons of reads and also score uh as a big and if he did view Towns that way and is in fact showing having like a level of flexibility on his own views. That's incredibly positive for the long-term outlook of the Knicks because that is not always a common quality among coaches. So, that that's something that's automatically uplifting to me.
Yeah, for sure. Um, a couple different places I can lean on there. Uh, I like that you talked about the unique skill set and leaning into it because when when XJ and I have talked in the past about the lineups Towns plays in or the way he's deployed, when you when you talk about stars in the NBA and maybe just all players in the NBA, you can really put them into two hats. And you have like the the the the ones who are unaffected by the lineups that they're they're in relatively and then the dynamic players who can be really good, but how impactful they are is entirely dependent on or or largely dependent on who they play with and how they're used. And doesn't mean that the second half or however you'd want to break them up isn't valuable. you just have to make them maximally valuable. And Towns is very much that second player uh or he belongs in group. And this is why we leaned on that so much last season as the Knicks just played one lineup repeatedly. It just became more and more clear as the evidence built up that this player who has such a high individual impact ceiling was not being close to maximized in this group with this group of players being used the way he was. There was a better way that could uplift the rest of his teammates. And this leads me to the second thing that you brought up that I think we can talk about the passing. He can make his teammates better with space with with with his shooting gravity, but he can make his teammates better as a passer. And I actually think that the hockey assists are more important than the direct assist because um apologies to whoever this was. I forget the username, but somebody left a really interesting comment on our Twitter this week where they talked about how Bronson is the only Nick who can uh create advantages off the dribble and how they don't have advantage creators and that's going to bring them down. And I replied to him that I think that's a really valid critique of the Knicks roster, but it actually is a critique that incentivizes a more egalitarian system that creates advantages for the players. And so if you think about it like, oh well, Towns isn't Julius Randall. He can't take a guy off the dribble, force a collapse, and then kick it out the way Randall could. Well, guess what? If he hits Landry Shamut, who also can't create an advantage on a back cut and the defense has to choose between collapsing from the three-point line or letting Landre Sham have a wideopen layup, that is Landrew Sham creating an advantage. That is doing the same thing just in a different way. So, you're taking your best players, the players with the highest ceilings, you're taking their skill sets and then you're deploying tactics that lean into those skill sets and give them the best chance of succeeding together. And I'm not saying that Mike Brown has been perfect, but I do think that he is already showing a willingness to try different things and lean into these skill sets in a way that we hadn't seen in the past with Carl Anthony Towns and Nick.
Yeah, it's such a great point because I think that we generally think about there being a singular way to create in the NBA. We think about it being off the dribble. We think that you have the ball in your hands and typically there's one defender in front of you and it's like, can you beat that guy and get to the rim or get to a high value shot? Um or in this day and age get to a step back that's a high value shot. If you're Luca Donuch, you just, as you've mentioned, Jeff, you just make every one of them. Um, but can you can you do that or can't you? That's it. It's a binary. Can you do that or can't you? And if you can't do it at an extremely high level, you're not a guy who can create that. That's how a lot of people define it. But there's so many ways you can create and initiate and and generate offense that don't entail just beating a guy one-on-one off the dribble. Carl Lee Towns, that's not going to be his best trade. Of course, people are going to get frustrated when they see, you know, if you give Carl Towns the ball up high and he just attacks a guy off the dribble and he goes in a straight line to the basket and if there's help, sometimes he'll run that guy over, sometimes he'll make the kickoff pass or sometimes he'll just miss the layup. And it's just kind of like it feels clunky. It's not the It's not the aesthetic of, you know, Julius Randall getting the ball, jab, step, jab, step, body, body, spin, pump, fake, step through, finish with the left hand. like you're not getting that aesthetic, but he can create just via with his back to the basket. Again, in these dribble handoffs, you're talking about just interfering with the defense, being able to maintain continuity with the offensive player that they're trying to guard. And you automatically have to make a choice in that situation. Are you going to give up a shot to Caran Towns from any part of the court within five feet of the three-point line? Probably not because he's one of the best at making those shots in the entire world. Um, and then if you're covering both of those guys involved in that action, the guys off ball are going to be really, really scary. When you see Landry Sham getting a wide open corner three, guess what? That's extremely scary. And that's maximizing the effect and the impact that Landry Sham can have on the basketball game. Um, and so there are so many ways to to to to help those guys be the best versions of themselves. And I really, really, really love how Car Towns was deployed in this most recent game. And I think we started to see some glimpses of it in the Bulls game, the second Bulls game. And um, and we started to see even more of it. And I think these guys are going to start to kind of get going and get unlocked almost like one at a time in a way. and we've seen it from Carl Towns. We've seen it from Jaylen Brunson. It's really about putting it all together and if they do, it's it's going to be an unstoppable offense. So, um yeah, I just I think it's really cool seeing all the experimentation that's going on and seeing actually really like immediate results in terms of the offense that they've been able to generate. The offense looks so beautiful at many different times.
It really does. And another player who's really benefited from it is Macau Bridges. And this is the really amazing thing about like when you when you embrace synergy and you're maximizing um a synergistic lineup like this one like actually I said before last season the first episode we produced after the Carl Anthony Towns trade he guaranteed that the not guaranteed but he predicted that if he he thinks that the Knicks will win a championship in the Carl Anthony Towns era and a Big part of it was when you you think about these four guys, Jaylen Brunson, Macau Bridges, OG Anobi, and Carl Anthony Towns, they are almost perfectly synergistic with each other. In theory, we didn't really see it play out in actuality last season, but they're but but but in theory, there is a world where our all four players are being maximized in a way you really only see in OKC. Like OKC can do stuff like have an MVP and two AllNBA players simultaneously because they deploy strategies and tactics that see, okay, Shay, you're this Michael Jordan one-on-one player. We're going to put the ball in your hands all the time, but it's not going to um totally take away from Chad Homegrren or Jaylen Williams ability to be their best selves. So you have these three players working in harmony together to create a 67 win team that wins the championship. That's what OKC is able to do. The Knicks have that ability. They have highlevel talent. They have an AllNBA, two allNBA level players in Jaylen Brunson and Carl Anthony Towns. There is a world where Macau Bridges or OG anobi could be an all-star level player if the things roll in the right direction. And these they don't need an injury to Jaylen Brunson and to up their creation for that to happen or they shouldn't. This can happen in unison with Jaylen Brunson being a fringe MVP level player. You just need to push the right buttons. And you're seeing it right now. You're seeing Brunson average a ton of points. you know, he he's he's controll he's controlling the pace a little bit less, but he he's still doing his thing the way he likes it, but he's doing it more in the flow of an offense that also elevates guys like Towns, guys like Bridges, guys, guys like Anobi. I mean, Muel Bridges coming into tonight had a 22% assist rate. That's almost 50% higher than he had ever had in a season before. And so, if you had told somebody that last season, they would have said, "Oh god, what happened to Jaylen Brunson? Only way Muel Bridges could get assists is if Jaylen Brunson got hurt and he had to run the offense. Not in this offense. In this offense, Jaylen Brunson can be the initiator of it and Mal Bridges can get some supporting initiation. He can get a a hand off and and and get into the paint and then kick it out. There are tons of options at their disposal. And this is what happens when you embrace the synergy that these guys can potentially have.
Yeah, I you're so right. I what you're saying it just has me thinking like I I mean really I have a question to you cuz I don't have a a very instantaneous answer. Let me see how to frame it. Basically last time we were talking about towns and Brunson and some of their dynamic and like how they play off of one another and how they can effectively each one can be a beneficiary and a benefactor towards the other. So basically Brunson can make Towns better for a lay way of saying it and Towns can make Brunson better. And so uh I mean Brunson had a little bit of a rough scoring game. I think he had a very very good passing and facilitating game against the Wizards. Um, but so far it does seem a little bit like it's it's not my turn, your turn, but it's almost like they can't both have their maximum impact on the game simultaneously. And I'm a true believer that like they will both it will require both of them to have their maximal impact on the game for them to be both be them best their best selves in order for the Knicks to win a championship this season. Um, and do you think there's an issue with that? Like, do you think that that will be something that is going to take long to figure out? Do you think it's the way that they played with Kron Towns as a DHO hub? Does that really activate Brunson to the best of his ability? Cuz we saw him in the Bulls game that they actually lost have an incredible passing game. I thought he was so on point and he kind of dictated the tempo and the tone of that game through his passing and his scoring and he had a really great overall game that ended up losing and Towns wasn't very involved. So, I don't know like is do you think this is going to be a continued issue trying to figure out how to find that balance between them where they're both kind of playing at the the peak of their powers or do you think it's not so much of an issue? We could see sit a situation where Towns kind kind of dictates the game as a hub and and another game where Brunson kind of dictates the game as a ball handler and they them kind of make those decisions based on how the defense plays them, especially in throughout the course of a playoff series.
Yeah, I you know me, I'm not overly optimistic. Some might call me miserable or something, but I uh I um I I truthfully don't know if I've been this optimistic about a Knicks this Knicks offense the entire season, like the preseason. And and I know it was the Wizards. It's not about the team they played. By the way, I like a couple players on the Wizards. I thought I thought Keshan George played awesome. Um, but it I just think it's a matter of time until they click together. Like I think they've shown flashes in so many different areas that they're just going to keep pressing those buttons until they get to a point where it's it I don't know if it's going to happen this season or if it does happen this season if it'll be, you know, before the All-Star break. I don't know when it'll happen, but I think so long as the team has reasonable health, it's a matter of if and not when. And it's a matter of if they get to a point where these Carl Anthony Towns hub possessions where he's running DHOs's and then these Brunson pick and roll possessions, these Brunson ISOs that they still sometimes lean into, they just flow naturally within each other and it feels symbiotic almost. It feels natural. There's like a there's a rhythm to it where you know that each guy is gonna get theirs, but it's not like, okay, well, one possession, Jaylen Brunson ran the show and then he missed. All right, Towns, it's your turn. It's just there's a very natural feel to it. And I think that the more they see these positive benefits of both styles, the more they're going to trust both things and eventually they're just going to get to a point where I mean, I I think this truthfully could be the best offense in the NBA.
Yeah, that's that's really high praise from you for sure because like I you don't dole that kind of stuff out very often or very easily. So, um that definitely is meaningful to me and and and hopefully our audience is hearing it the same way. It's well heard by me um and uh hopefully well heard by the audience. I I I I I have to agree and I think um it's kind of like something you you talk about this kind of often and you mentioned it with Victor Wmanyama the other day uh when the Yama man and you talked about how he took a really insane like you know insanely difficult mid-range shot and and and you were talking about how like uh it's crazy to have this as like your fallback option when the possession doesn't go well. Um, and we're talking about a dynamic where you can run stuff with beautiful flowing offense with Carlton Towns running DHO's and just all these guys moving around the perimeter. It was the one possession that was like the best in the Wizards game to me where it was like, you know, Carlton Towns got a open a wide open three I think off of Miguel. Um, almost called him Miguel. He's Miguel now. He's not Miguel anymore. Um, Miguel Bridges. uh uh pick and pop and he got a wide open three and Land Andrew Shamik cut through the middle um of of the 45 cut through the middle. Um, and that actually allowed Towns to not get a contest from CJ McCullum who had to account for Landry Shaman and he got a wide open three. And it was so beautiful just seeing the synchronicity of the movement and then the skill sets and and kind of leveraging all of the gravity on the court in the way that it created a wideopen shot for one of the best shooters in the league. And just seeing that is so cool. But you can imagine situations where you're seeing that and somehow the defense plays perfectly and it doesn't work and then it's you have, you know, 7 seconds left and then you can flow into a Jaylen Brunson isolation with an advantage and it's like now it's like what was your primary way to score in past years, Jaylen Brunson creating for himself and in difficult situations that he does so well. That's like your last option. That becomes your your your your fallback option. that becomes your like, man, nothing went well for us. Let's go to this other super high quality, effective, you know, high efficiency option for one of the best isolation scores in the game with a bunch of space around him. That becomes like your plan C. And if you get to that point, how is it not one of the best offenses in the league, if not the best offense in the league, if not one of the best offenses ever? That's my question.
Yeah, the the the ceiling is is really high. Really high. And I mean, you talk about fallback options. Think about the stuff that they in previous seasons leaned into as like primary options in terms of like they loved having Mitchell Robinson on the offensive glass. That's still there for them. They can still run Mitch 20, 25 minutes a game. on the nights he plays, he's still an all-time offensive rebounder. Like, they can still dominate the glass when they if they want in a certain way. That just does it just doesn't have to be a thing where, well, Brunson's going to create most of the offense, so get ready to offensive rebound because, you know, he loves that short floater game. Like, that doesn't have to be the way they create really good offense. They have all these things at their disposal, but now they're taking this thing that is on its own, if if you're rating these things in terms of like the points per possession that they create on its own, this egalitarian system is going to come out ahead of a Jaylen Brunson ISO of, you know, um I don't want to say an offensive rebound because that's probably wrong, but like if you were somehow able to like bottle like the types of shots that you're going for that maybe have a slightly higher higher chance of being offensive rebounded. You get what I'm saying?
They they did do that. They went for short mid-range shots that that Yeah, exactly.
Right. That's that's what that's what I'm saying. So, like if you included those short mid-range shots plus the slight bump in offensive rebounding, I think this system will still come out ahead of that, if you if that is now your A system, you still have these things, the the brunts and isos, the offensive rebounding in your back pocket. That's really amazing. and and yeah, it's the sky truly is the limit for this team once they embrace these these qualities that that maximize all the players in their lineup, not just one of them.
Yeah, I totally agree. something they they they haven't embraced quite yet which which I think is important to talk about because I know that you know our audience is going to probably question about it which I think is totally reasonable is uh Deuce McBride right now coming back from missing a couple of games due to personal reasons and and you know our thoughts are with Duce McBride for um you know his his his situation personally. Landry Shamck got the start and Deuce McBride was not the second person off not the first person off the bench, not the second person off the bench, was the third person off the bench. Uh Landry Sham played more than Duce McBride in this most recent Wizards game. Landry Sham has been really really impressive this season in my perspective. Like I've been talking him up since the preseason just the fact that it's not just making shots although his shot looks really fluid right now. It's just that he's playing exceptionally well. Like I mentioned, his cut earlier and like the timing of his cuts, the way he's bringing a lot of defensive intensity, even some of his rotations like have been really really good. He was like the low man and and and and rotated over and almost got a really great stop, but just wasn't big enough to to to to contain. I don't know if it was Bagley or whoever it was.
Actually, when Shamut is playing at a level where you almost don't care whether his shots go in, that's like an unparalleled level of of impact from him.
Yeah, like sorry to cut you off, but
No, you're good.
You you said that and that kind of in like when he's at the point
where his defense and his offball movement and all those things, they're they're they're helping your team so much where you're like, "Ah, man, he missed that open shot." And it's not like, dude, you have to make that. That's the reason you're out there, you know, like that. He's leveled up as a player when he's doing that. And look, it's only been seven games, but he has done that so far. He's been quite good, quite helpful to the team whether the shots have fallen or not.
It's it's a great point. I'm glad you interrupted there because it's such a great barometer. There's so many guys like that where it's like they're taking shots and it's like, well, if you're not going to make that, you might as well bury him like, you know, in on the bench, not in real life, guys. Come on. Um, so so to me, yeah, I I I I totally agree with that. It's a great barometer because I never have felt like that about him this season. It feels like he misses shots and I'm like, cool, keep him out there. Like I I want him out there. you know, um, and so, so yeah, so, so Landry Sham has played really, really well. I think that most people would agree with that. Um, but Deuce McBride, I think also hopefully most people would agree Deuce McBride's a better player overall than Landry Shamid and probably a better fit in the starting lineup than Landry Shaman in terms of what he can do as an onball defender, as a as a spacer, um, and all the attributes that he has getting over screens and and the variety of tools that he has defensively and offensively. So, um, we don't know, right? And and this is something that I've really been harping about very early in the season. We don't know what Mike Brown's plans are, what his beliefs are, who he thinks is good, who he thinks is not as good, who he really trusts in and who he wants to give more time to. And um there's a ton of experimentation going on. There's different lineups playing. There's a lot of things happening. And to me, I'm okay with seeing really all of it. Um, the one thing I'm like least like excited about is seeing last year's starting lineup run out a ton of minutes because we saw that that starting lineup play an infinite number of minutes, although obviously with a different system. Uh, but yeah, so I'm I'm okay really with all of it. But at least at this stage, it seems like there's a potential for him to feel like Deuce McBride is more of a second guard or wing off the bench kind of player than he is like a a starting level player or a first guy off the bench kind of player. And um you know, I I don't imagine a world where Jordan Clarkson plays more than him, but Jordan Clarkson played more than him and has played better than him so far. So um yeah, what are your general thoughts on Deuce McBride? Obviously, with the caveats that I described, we don't know what the situation is right now. We don't know if Mike Brown is sitting him because or or playing him less because Zeus McBride is just working his way back after personal for personal reasons and all those kinds of things. So, there's a lot of variables and unknowns, but I think you and I are two of the highest people on Deuce McBride covering the NBA potentially. And it would be a little bit concerning to me if this is the role that he's kind of being thrust into despite how well guys like Landry Shamid are playing and how important Josh Hart is playing and also the how much money Josh Hart is making which I think requires him to play a certain number of minutes. So yeah uh what are your thoughts on that?
Yeah. So with all the qualifiers that you put in place which is good. It's good to have those safeguards so we don't come off completely deranged. Um because you're right, we there's just so much we don't know. We don't know what Mike Brown's trying to um trying to find out. You can't call for lineup diversity and experimentation and then be mad when a bunch of lineups are being thrown out there, you know? Like that's that's going to happen. And I think that's a good thing that like we're seeing all these funky lineups. Like the end of the first half, Bridges and Towns were both off the bench and it was like Yabuselli Ojanobi Hart Brunson and Jordan Clarkson or something like that. It's like a lineup I couldn't even dream dream of, you know, and it's um so yeah, that that's where I'd start is just like you want to see more deuce. We don't know what's going on with him. We don't know what's going on with his personal life. But to the point of your last thing, like long-term, just to get out in front of that, if a a game like the Wizards game is the general thoughts on all the players, like Hart is the guy who belongs with the starters, he's in that tier. Clarkson's like the microwave scorer who when he has it going belongs and Deuce is just like this second guard who comes in for Brunson, plays 15 minutes. That's wrong and we'll be going through another season like we did last season where you and I are two old men shouting get off my lawn yelling at the clouds, you know, but I I yeah, I feel very compelled to say that that is just that would be the team not doing what it can to reach its maximal ceiling. The the one thing I do want to say regards to Shamut is that while I do think that Deuce is better than Shamut like overall and I think he, you know, helps you on defense in ways that um is not only additive but also has like a compounding effect on other defenders in the lineup, specifically uh Macau and OG, because it allows them to play off ball more. It it elevates their defense a little bit in ways that I don't think Landry Shaman is capable of. I do think that Shamut in the starting lineup is better than Hart because at least it's it still achieves the the offensive goal that you're going for with Towns in terms of fully embracing five out and um maximizing Towns's offensive impact. So there I I at least appreciate that he's that Mike Brown is trying that. Um, and like you said again, just repeating it, we don't know what's going on. Like we don't with Deuce, with Mike Brown, this will be a more interesting conversation in a couple weeks, a couple months when really have a better feel of like what the preferences are, but there are signs there. I mean, apparently Deuce was good enough to start the fourth quarter. He didn't play the whole third quarter, so like that's weird. Um, we know as we talked about in the preseason how Mike Brown treated Keon Ellis. Kings fans are very unhappy and still very unhappy about that to this day. Deuce is kind of in the Keon Ellis mold. He's actually a smaller version of Keon Ellis. I think Keon Ellis is better. Um, and Deuce is smaller. So, like there is some correlation there. And yeah, I I don't think it's totally like out of the realm of possibility to see a world where Mike Brown is like, you know, like I like the energy Josh Hart brings and I like Jordan Clarkson's ability to score better than Deuce. Like I could see him framing each of them individually against Deuce in a way where his biases match up with their strengths relative to Deuce's overall package. But the way you always have to view basketball is their impact on the net. And this has always been the conversation from day one. This has always been the problem with the conversation. And that's when people say like, "Oh, well, if he started Duce instead of Josh Hart, like what would happen to the rebounding?" Like, I don't I'm not saying that rebounding doesn't matter, but it doesn't matter at the expense of the net. And when we have so much overwhelming evidence that regardless of how they get it done, when Deuce McBride is on the court, really, really good things happen for your team. And then you start to work backwards that way. Why are these good things happening over and over again? And you realize that just like his spacing, his shooting, and his defense are so so so important to you that they probably more than mitigate the deficiencies deficiencies he has relative to these other players. You just have to not overthinking it. Overthink it. You're almost doing yourself a disservice by thinking about it too hard and being like, well, like, you know, the rebounding or, you know, Jordan Clarkson is actually better at starting the pick and roll and scoring and getting his own bucket. It's like those things might be true, but they're not more important than the overall.
Yeah, I think that was really well said. I it's it's funny cuz like I mean you said something I was going to say too which is you know I you see the starting lineup and and sometimes it's like you you're you're like okay Mitchell Robinson's out and then we're like all right who's that fifth starter going to be and you go to look and then you see and it's like deuce is not in it and normally it's like damn why is deuce not in it he should be starting and then I see Landry Shaman and I'm like it's Landry Shaman I'll take it you know like because cuz philosophically That's the that's kind of the more of the important thrust of the point where it's like you have a coach who's willing to say like it's not it's not like uh Landry versus Deuce necessarily. That feels like a separate conversation. But one conversation that feels important is like is it more important to start a huckporty? Is it more important to start Josh Hart or is it more important to start Landry Shaman? And it's like you see Landry Shamid in there or a guy like Landry Shamid and and you just at least to me it feels better. feels like he a is recognizing how good Landry Sham has been so far in this season which not all coaches would necessarily notice given the way that Landry Sham impacts the game and B it's like okay and given this option of effectively I could have gone Deuce or Shamut or I could have gone Hart or Hucki he's going Shaman and so I I I that that I at least appreciate to start with I also again like we talked about Shaman has played so Well, um, in fact, is is is shooting in term not not not just in terms of making, but his aggressiveness shooting. He's shooting 8.8 threes per 75 so far this season. That's a rate Deuce has never reached in his career so far. Like, that's a really aggressive clip that he's that he's shooting the ball at. And he knows that he's out there to take shots. He's putting them up. When he gets the ball, he is putting them up. And that's really what you want to see from the guy being put in in that spot. like you have to be an aggressive aggressive spacer. And so offensively I I it makes a ton of sense. I just don't think although Landry Shamz tried really really hard defensively, he's not going to be the impact player deuce is on the defense. Um and you know, who knows? Maybe if the if they weren't playing the Wizards and they were playing somebody with a smaller guard who was more aggressive like kind of paint scorer and at getting to the basket or used tons of pick and rolls and required somebody to chase over pick and rolls do some pride would start like I again we don't know but overall I I totally agree with you. I think on the net when we're going the length of a season, the length of a of a playoff uh not only a playoff series, but a postseason run, Duce McBride is going to be the guy that's going to impact the game at a higher rate than anybody else the Knicks have in that kind of role, whether it's Jordan Clarkson, whether it's uh Landry Shamid, or whether it's Josh Hart for that matter. So, um definitely would want to see that moving forward long term. Um yeah.
Yeah, I feel the same. And it's interesting because again, we'll have to see it play out and let's just put a ribbon in this conversation till a couple months from now and see what lineups they've played more and how how they've done. But you do see a world where the the lineup with the four starters plus Josh Hart plays well enough to the point where the Knicks themselves, they're like, "Oh, hey, we this is it. we found the workaround, you know, more more running through towns, more DHOs, and it does succeed at a level where they're like, "This is the lineup we're going to lean on." Um, so it's Yeah, it's interesting. I I could see that being the outcome rather than them fully embracing the how do we um just completely optimize and and hit the top 1 percentile because I do think that that's what they need to win a championship. the the couple teams
at the top are really good. So like even if they get through the regular season with this, this is good enough to be the one or the two seed. I don't know if and this is thinking way long term, but like I don't know if you're maximizing your chances to win four postseason series unless you are constantly deploying your best lineups.
Yeah, I think you said it and like it's I'm glad you said it out loud because it's sort of implicit in our analysis to think that way where it's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're good enough to like, you know, be a top team in the regular season and what, but are you going to win a championship? Are you beating Are you beating the Cleveland Cavs with like a lineup that's not your best ceiling lineup? Are you beating the Oklahoma City Thunder in an NBA finals without a lineup that's like your best ceiling lineup? Like, no. you're you're beating the Oklahoma City Thunder if and only if you hit your peak of what you're able to deploy on a basketball court. That's the way you're beating them. If you're not doing that, you're not beating them. I just don't they're too good. You're not beating them.
U and there are a few teams like that. And that's not every team. That's the top five teams that we're talking about basically. But guess what? You generally have to beat two or three of those top five teams if you're winning an NBA championship. So, if we're thinking about winning an NBA championship, if that's the goal here, and it should be, if you're a Knicks fan and you're rooting for this team, then you need to be figuring out what's my highest ceiling lineup. How do I deploy that such that it hits that ceiling with the most consistency and how do I run that lineup in the most situations where it's most necessary in order to beat these elite level teams? And so that's always going to be the direction that I think you should go unless you're just looking to be good enough and, you know, make some noise or whatever it is that people say. And I don't think I think this team's better than being good enough and making some noise. So, yeah, that we're on the same page.
Let's move to our hot fan theory segment that we talked about and previewed earlier in the episode. Uh I'm going to share a comment that we received. Uh we get a lot of comments on YouTube and we appreciate every single one of them. And to show that appreciation, we respond to every single one of them. So if you've never commented before, drop a comment. We we'd love to engage with you and we also learn a lot from these comments. It's not just like, you know, for the algorithm. Obviously, it's nice to get comments and um but to be honest with you, comments don't actually taking you behind the curtain a little bit. Comments don't actually like generate views or anything like that. It's a nice indicator of health for a YouTube channel. um but they don't actually like generated tons of views or anything. We actually just want to engage with you all who listen to our videos. We really appreciate you and again we learn a lot from you as well. So we're going to use this segment as an opportunity to highlight stuff that has got us thinking and and and you know anything that we see and notice that we're like hey let's talk about that.
So, for this week, we're going to mention a comment from uh someone named Tristan Dwarte. Appreciate you so much as always and to all of the people who comment on our videos. And they mentioned that in all the frustration with Towns, who we've talked about already, I feel like us being a top 10 defense with him playing the five a bunch is an underdis discussed development. If anything, that was the step I wanted to see most this year. Quality defense with him in the lineup. Hard to imagine the offense won't click into place for him. makes me excited actually for what we can do.
So, the reason I think this is such a great comment and a great point for us to kind of launch pad a discussion here around the Knicks defense is that I do think it's under discussed and hasn't been talked about very much. I was looking at some of the numbers and Carl Anthony Towns when we look at him playing and being on the court. The Knicks defensive rating is about a one a 113 defensive rating according to Clean the Glass. It may be different at NBA.com and other sources, but according to Clean the Glass is a 113 rating, which would put the Knicks if Caron Towns was on the court for 100% of the minutes. He's obviously not, but people view him as a negative defender. So, you put that guy on the court at all given times. um 113 defense that would be a top 10 defense in the National Basketball Association. So, I'm really curious if you think Jeff this is a this is sustainable, b how are they doing this, especially with as Tristan says, they're playing Carl Towns at the five a lot this season and um and I don't remember what my C was, but I'm sure there's a C somewhere in there. So, I'm curious what you think about this, Jeff, in terms of the defense for the Knicks and Carl Towns being a focal point with everyone, you know, knowing quote unquote knowing that he's not a good defender, but them somehow being a top 10 defense when we're talking about how elite the offense can be with him on the court.
>> So, let's attack the two angles of that. First, Carl Anthony Towns being a bad defender. We need to actually let me start by saying thank you to Tristan for the comment and thank you to everybody for the comment. I should have let off with that because actually his point is he's so on point there. Like we love interacting with you guys. We get smarter interacting with you with you all and we look forward to it every week. We get so many good comments. Like we text each other all the time. We're like, "Dude, do you see that comment?" Like what other whether it's a YouTube channel or what other analysis channel like this on anything has the comment section that we do? I would be very very surprised if there's highlevel conversations happening in the comment section anywhere else that are close to ours. So really appreciate you guys.
Getting back to the point at hand here, let's first talk about Carl Anthony Towns defense. Carl Anthony Towns is not a bad defender. We need to like put that to bed once and for all. Carl Anthony Towns is bad at certain parts of defense, but there is a very very very distinct difference between those two ideas and it goes back to what we were just talking about with Duce McBride. Yes, Carla Dons is a bad rim protector, but as we've learned with Nicole Joic, like you can be a bad rim protector even as a center and still be a good defender. So, let me just share some data with you folks if you're out there and you're a little skeptical. Since 2018, which is seven full seasons, Carl Anthony Towns has fallen in the 86th, the 92nd, the 79th, the 62nd, the 69th, the 64th, the 60th, and the 59th percentile in defensive EPM on dunks and threes. That is eight consecutive seasons where he is at worst in the 59th percentile in defensive impact. Is that everything? No, it's not. But when it's eight straight years, that is somewhat meaningful. They're not just there isn't just some like weird wonky thing only happening with Carl Anthony Towns's defensive impact that is just repeatedly happening across eight seasons. What it is telling us is that there are things on defense like his placement, like his hands, like his switchability that are actually good. You just have to lean into those things more. And so when you're not just defaulting to drop coverage when he's at center and watching him get torched at the rim relentlessly, he can help your defense more. Yes. When you're just playing drop or you're just having him, you know, hedge a little bit but then retreat to the rim. His defensive impact is going to be lower because you're leaning into things that he is bad at. Lean into things that he's good at more and he can help your defense.
And XJ talked about the Knicks overall defense when Carl Anthony Towns plays. Let's talk about something even more promising because Jaylen Brunson who is a bad defender although Jaylen Brunson is good at some things on defense on the whole he is not a good defender. You would think that Jaylen Brunson and Carl Anthony Towns playing defense together would be untenable. It would be just a disaster if Carl Anthony Towns a perceived bad defender. Jaylen Brunson, a perceived bad defender at two very, very important but different positions are sharing the court that should be untenable. Well, guess what? 126 minutes this year with Brunson and Towns on the court together. They have a 111.6 defensive rating. Small sample, still plenty of minutes to be played. that could go up. But that is super encouraging because for Townalins to be able to anchor a defense largely at center with Jaylen Brunson playing point guard and you to have I think it would be the seventh best defense in basketball with those two on the court together. That's that's really really really good. And we've said it since the day they sign since the day they trade for Carl Anthony Towns. They don't even need to be a really good defense. They need to have a requisite enough defense to to pair with an all-time offense. That is the path. When Carlon Towns and Jaylen Brunson are your two best players, you lean into offense. You have an elite elite best in the league, one of the best in the league offenses, and then you have just enough defense to get by. And if you lean into the strengths of these guys who are amazing offensive players, if you lean into their offensive strengths and then design a scheme that leans into their defensive strengths, this is the way for them. It's only been seven games, but it really, really feels like they're doing that.
>> That was awesome. I love just chilling here for that. That was great. Great data that you brought up. I thought all of those points were really incredible and and yeah, I I I definitely agree with all of that and and like you said, the the main thing that stuck out to me of everything you said was really what the path forward is for this team. And we're talking about them hitting their offensive ceiling. They hit their offensive ceiling. You only have to be good enough defensively. And all of this conversation is like, oh, you know, m top 10, top 12, top 13 defensively, like they're hovering around that. Can they maintain that? Can they be that? That would be quite sufficient in my opinion to be around that conversation given what the offense can do if it reaches its ceiling to be a true title not only contender but you know a favorite coming out of the Eastern Conference at least um if the Knicks were able to pursue in that direction. And like you mentioned, the Brunson Towns minutes have been really good defensively so far. And again, like to support what you're saying as far as Town's defensive impact, it is just a thing where it's like we see a center and we think of a center's defensive role in a particular way. And it's it's this kind of concrete perspective that we have in our minds of like a center plays defense by protecting the rim and they block shots and they play and drop and and and and they they interrupt a lot of passes and although Towns does that well sometimes and they guard two guys as they get closer to the rim and there are all these things that we think of in terms of the way centers play defense and Towns doesn't play defense that way but he plays defense by being able to switch and he plays defense by finishing possessions with defensive rebounding, which is part of defense, no matter what people may think or try have tried to argue in the past, which people have tried to figure out ways that defensive rebounding is not part of defense somehow, which is a very it's paradoxical, but people have tried to make that argument. Defensive rebounding is a part of defense. And when we look at his defensive rebounding, he is one of the best in the league. And he is a very, very underrated switchable player and can guard wings really, really well when he needs to. He needs to cut down on the fouling. That's really one of the biggest drawbacks of of of having him in defensive actions and why teams attack him sometimes. It's not just because they think, oh, this is an easy guy to score on, but it's like, hey, we can get Carly Towns in foul trouble and get him out of the game. That is that is one of the benefits of attacking Carrie Towns with your wings, not just being able to score on him at ease. So, those are things that the Knicks will have to address moving forward. But, I do think it's a really, really nice sign that their defense has been so good with him. so far with Jaylen Brunson and him so far and I think it's something they'll continue to work on as the season goes on.
>> Any last thoughts before we uh before we before we get out of here?
>> Can we also talk about how Tristan framed the question?
>> Yeah. in a sense of remember that awesome analogy you gave about or or the hypothetical you gave about what if instead of defense and offense going back and forth, it was like you played 100 possessions of defense and then the next day you played 100 possessions of offense.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Well, the way Tristan framed the question, I doubt he had this in mind, but it it it emphasizes the interplay because that's a really important part of the Knicks team defense is like when their offense is so good, it it it lowers the ceiling of their defense because other teams are going to start doing things in a way where they're like, "We have to keep up with this offense." Like, that's just naturally how things work. If it didn't work that way, you know, you'd see ridiculous scores like 80 to 20 and stuff like that. That stuff doesn't happen because opponents adjust to the type of team that they're playing. That makes it harder for the Knicks defense to statistically rate out really good. It could still be a a good enough defense relative to their offense, though.
>> Yeah, I that's that's that's perfectly said. I was going to say unless you're the Oklahoma City Thunder, in which case those rules don't apply to you, but um you know, the Knicks can I think the Knicks can obviously be at a higher offensive level than the Thunder, although they won't ever sniff what the Thunder can do defensively. So again, this is just a comment to say the way that the Knicks can approach it, given their lineup, given their roster, given the talent that they can deploy on the court, it's not going to be the way that a lot of teams are trying to win. It's not going to be with defense first. It's not going to be with a a perfect balance of offense and defense. It's going to be offense first. And if the defense can maintain under the circumstances as as Jeff described where offenses are opponents are trying to keep up with this ridiculously high octane offense. It's going to be difficult, but they only have to do just enough to outscore opponents, especially those high level opponents that they'll end up facing in the Eastern Conference semi-finals, in the Eastern Conference finals, in the NBA finals. So, um, yeah, I think this was that that was cool. Thank you so much, Tristan, for for for the comment. And and again, if you're listening at this point and you're like an hour in or something like that, you're not subscribed. What are you doing? I don't know what's h I don't even know what you're doing here, but I I appreciate you, but I don't know what you're doing here. If you're not subscribed, so if you made it to this point, subscribe, drop a comment. Would love to engage with it the next time Jeff and I are on. We'll be back sometime this week, very much likely. And if not, we'll be back on Tuesday at 11:00 a.m. Eastern as we always always are. And uh I think that's pretty much everything. But thank you so much for joining us, for listening all the way through. And for Jeff, I am XJ and this has been Highend Theory.