How's everybody doing?

Good. Excited to be here.

Oh, yeah.

Who here is international?

Sweet. Wow. Wait, who here's not international? [Laughter]

Sweet. So, I actually have more international here. That's actually

That's what I told you.

Yeah. Pretty sweet.

More people more people that use school aren't in America than are.

That's wild.

Although America is the biggest country for school,

right? There's still more people on school that aren't an American.

I'm my audience is 55% international.

Interesting.

Just me. Me specifically. So I see I I get that there's just a lot of other than the 300 million people in the US out of the 8 billion in the world.

Yeah. And they're all newer to info and internet and so it's like the

the wild west of

it's like the 80s.

Yeah. Welcome to the to the world of info. The cool thing is is that the stuff that is working in the US now will work for you guys for like 5 years straight without having to like implement anything. You'll just be ahead of the curve. Like there's so many guys that I know who like are like in Brazil and they literally just find somebody in the US who's like a thought leader and just word for word copy everything they do into Portuguese and claim it as their own. Um yeah, not saying that that's classy, but whatever. Yeah, there's Eman Gazi videos that are just one to one translated to like to Chinese

and they have more views than the original

bigger population.

I know. But like it's really interesting that all they did was translate it and it gets more viewers,

you know. Actually, if you're in um China and you're riding around the taxis, there's like a little jingle that that plays when you open the door and when you like get in and when you get out and usually it's a famous American song, but no one knows what it is. No, no one there knows what it is. You find it all the time.

It's just like Back in Black by AC/DC.

No, literally. Yeah. You'll hear an AC/DC song that'll play, but they won't know. They'll just be like, "Yeah, it's some Chinese stuff."

Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's the cab music.

Well, sweet. Um,

what was that?

One more person.

Yeah. Oh, one more person. Well, why don't we start on intros and that person can watch the recording. Um, and then um, so yeah, if we what we'll do is um, did we do a round of intros for us last time? We did.

We did intros and then we went

I wrote a template. I think that helped.

Yeah. Do you want to do the template?

Yeah.

We We're keeping this very organized.

Does anyone remember what it was?

Yeah. You guys get over here and you can help.

Seriously, I think it was like Hi Yeah. Where?

Oh, three things. Three things you want to get.

Yeah.

Three things.

Yeah. I guess it was three. It was like who you are and three things. Favorite color. You think of us a lot that we say in your run.

Simple.

So think about what these are too before it gets to you.

Yeah. So that way you're not like um um I'm like

I'm only adding one thing which is just like

like what you like your business like who you sell to like

I'm John. Yeah, sure. Name and niche is great. Would be great. That's my request.

Cool.

All right, let's rock.

Wonderful. My name is Pablo.

Oh, let's go really loud so everybody can hear you.

My name is Pablo. I am in the Jaywaller niche. Let's just say that. I I originally started working with Justin just doing any sort of sales closing closing people for the war room and the real world. Used to be called Husters University. I'm sure you guys might have just seen it at one point. And what I'd like from the event is to have my brain blown. One. Um, number two is I'd like to know what everybody is kind of thinking in terms of their own ideas on how to, you know, increase basic metrics like retention and how they're how they're adding more people to the community. And

so acquisition, retention. Okay. And then number three, just to get to know everybody and like their experience in the online business world and um yeah, what what what they think the future of all this is, especially with the state we are we're at with the economy and like all the new technologies coming out too.

Okay, cool. So, I'm David Andre. I'm in the AI niche and my three questions are hiring, outsourcing low-level tasks, delegating, uh how to increase retention slash reduce churn, and number three, core tracking metrics for communities. All right. Okay. Next one. So hey guys I'm sto I'm like I actually met my business partner who unfortunately is not here one day before the school games which is really fun story. So pretty much I'm doing growth operating for him and he is doing combination of AI and FM space. So my two question is like uh is it better to be a key person of influence or to be really good at the game? So how I frame it is every business model has few people who are key person and also quite a lot of people who are getting really good at the game and they're trying to compete with these key persons of influence. Maybe I'm wrong with this. The second question is um

could you clarify the first question?

Yeah. So like uh how I see it is depending on on the niche there are some people who start maybe first like they have some advantage and they position themselves like key person and everyone who starts after them basically is competing in the game so the game is that like they set the rules this is how I see

all right

so the first this is the first question I know it's complex um so the second thing is how how to find the thing that uh you think is meaningful enough to like do it for the next 10 years like hard five million basically.

Okay.

And the third thing I want to get is uh what is the best thing to build a really good culture in your team. Great.

All right.

What's up, guys? I'm Kyle. I do uh day trading and investing education and then software. So, I really only want two things. One, uh, current lever. I'm 99% sure on next steps to take. I want confirmation on that. But then beyond that,

is that to do what?

To grow.

What is the next step I should take? And

okay,

I think I know what that is, but I just want to make sure like from someone from experience, you have the same kind of thought process. And then

if I pull that lever, I'm in uncharted territory. and getting a chance to talk to people that are far beyond me. There's a lot of stuff I could do. I'm curious what path you would walk beyond that.

So, going from what revenue to what revenue?

H your current revenue.

You won the games this last month, right? Or for this month. Yeah. Cool.

You had a different strategy. It'll be fun to dive into that.

Uh, I'm Greg from doing Chan Academy. Um, things I really want out of this is basically to learn from everyone else. Um, but uh two key things would be um thoughts around maintaining a a physical academy and online and seeing um what else we can do to kind of bring those together.

Okay.

Um, and also uh looking at starting up different uh communities at different price points. That's your thoughts around

so brick and mortar and online. What was the next? What was the next question?

And uh different communities uh starting maybe look at different price points.

Okay. Pricing.

So Tim, did we did we phrase this last time as things you want want from the event or problems you want to solve?

No, we found it easier to go with things you want from the event.

Okay. Yeah, got it. Cuz I remember we went back and forth on this.

the things they want tell us clearly what their problems are.

Yeah.

Cool. So I should say the problems.

No, no, you're fine. Just keep just keep going. Yeah, we'll figure out the problem.

All right. Yeah,

my name is Bro. I'm John. Everyone, sorry, just we're in the meditation and martial arts niche. Uh, three things we want. I want to learn as much as possible, connect with everyone, but also I'm building the biggest martial arts and meditation school on the planet thanks to you guys. And I want to know what's the best model for that. Okay. Okay. All right. My turn. Yeah. Okay. Cool. So, my name is Zay. Uh, the product the coaching solution. So, basically helps online coaches start and scale their business. So, the three things that we want is we want to learn how to make better inbound content that actually converts

better contact.

Yeah. Also, how to be more consistent with sales as the business starts to scale because we get that like that mess that we have to clean up and also how to motivate the team like the setters and the closers and how to manage them as well. I got him. Yeah, that's cool. me. Yeah, sure.

All right. My name is Elias. I'm Saint's business partner and I don't I just want to absorb the energy from this whole event. That that's what I want to do. So, yeah, that that's my intro.

That's a good answer. My name is Goose. Uh, I'm with Captivate and uh our whole thing is funnels and uh community trying to show people how to do all of that on school. and we're kind of in the fun niche, the colorful and fun niche. Doesn't really not really an existing niche there. So, we kind of popped in. Um, I think uh kind of what a few have already said, I'm curious to hear a lot more about the struggles that everyone's had kind of on a business level and a personal level. Um, but personally something that I found within this niche is um, if we can call it a niche, it's interesting that our sales strategy has been not much of a strategy. It was just like, hey, let's hang out. People like hanging out and then they buy the service. I I'm curious if there's a shorter version of doing that that doesn't take an hour of hangout time. Um, so I guess it's really around sales.

Okay.

Was that too long? No, I mean so sales was the one thing, right? So currently you have some sales method that you're using and seeing if you want to there's another one.

Loose method. Yeah.

Yeah. Loosey goose. Got it. Um, what uh anything else besides sales?

Uh for me? No, that that's it. The I think I'll get just from listening to people.

That for me.

Cool. Uh my name's Justin.

Justin. Oh, sorry. I thought it was one per group.

No, you're good.

Sorry.

Is it one per group?

No.

Oh. Uh my name is Bon obviously with G here and uh I I basically the first thing that's super important is just to have a good time and get to know everybody. That's really what this is all about to me. I kept thinking about questions and stuff and what to get. But really I want to get to know everybody and just touch base with everybody. And then on a practical uh doubling down on sales but also adding scaling and how to match that. So, um, yeah, and of course any inspiration and ideas

inspo.

Sorry.

Yeah, it's all good. [ __ ]

U, my name is Justin. I I help residential contractors scale with the same systems we use to scale our painting business. Um, the questions and like the things I want from the event, one is how to pivot from a

trade launch, right?

Trade launch. Yeah. Um, how to

I saw a launch after a single syllable word and I was like, "All right, it's creative."

Yeah, I got it from a guy. My one of the questions what I want to get is how to pivot from like before I was just doing high ticket um how to pivot from high ticket to potentially even like a very low ticket like a 97 um without um basically losing the goodwill of the people that at the high ticket.

I want to talk about this. This is actually a big theme that I want to hit on because I have a lot of thoughts on this. Um, all right. So, is it like I'll just say high ticket uh transition?

Reason why is cuz I I do want to focus on my actual painting business, but I already built this thing and I want to at least have something with it with a low barrier entry.

Yeah.

Um,

second one is strategies that I want to hear from

your painting business like four million a year or something like that. Yeah, I remember. I remember this.

You actually told me this.

Yeah.

Graph you drew.

Yeah. Um uh another one is strategies to how to successfully utilize the leaderboard because I've seen a lot of groups I haven't really seen it being utilized well. Um at least from my perspective where I felt like I actually wanted to get up the leaderboard.

Okay.

so you're saying you felt like the school games leaderboard was more effective than the leaderboard inside your community

where it was like based on sales or based on something inside of the what the program's offering rather than likes and comments and interaction.

That's great. Um, third one is creative strategies or I'll I'll rephrase this when to go from like a lower ticket like a 97 to an ascension. If there's like a a you should get to a certain amount of the low ticket to then add ascension or if you have that built out ahead of time.

Mhm.

So basically the strategies for uh adding an ascension to a higher ticket.

Yeah. I'm going to give you specific advice.

Cool.

That might not everybody.

Yes.

Question.

Yeah.

Who's ready?

All right. My name is uh Brandon Forbes and I have two offers. One is helping uh Christian business owners out of info products.

Everyone remember this.

Oh,

because I'm going to No, no, you're fine.

I was like, man, I'm going too long.

I turn the page

name, niche, three things. Okay, got it.

Uh, and that's what we played in the games with. And then we have scale, which I agree like I need clarity on that question. Uh, high ticket MR and like how to switch or if I should switch. Uh, the second thing is how scale like what allowed us to kind of take off is we created a funnel on Instagram like the IG growth funnel and literally thousands and thousands of people are running the same funnel now. So

um at what point do I like create a new mechanism or like I don't know it's just not the ads aren't as effective.

Yeah.

Um, and then the third thing is

I'm starting to think about business a bit differently. Like I view coaching as like a cash flow business. Sure.

So, I want to build something that I could exit.

Sure.

So, yeah.

And what if you could exit a coaching business, what would it take is a good question. Yeah.

Beautiful.

Cool.

Sweet. What's up, guys? My name is Shik, but please just call me Shark. Uh, I'm in the the Gladiator niche, which is actually just it's a high ticket coaching community, and I help faith-driven men in their 20s start and scale local lead genen businesses. Um, and just for some context, this is actually like the end of my second month in business, and I'm kind of having my first like gym launch moment where like we raised the price, everyone's like saying yes on sales calls, guys are getting good results, and they're referring people.

Cool.

Um, so the three things I need are I think I need some I call it CEO training, but I need to figure out how to structure my day as a CEO to either operationalize the product to scale it so that my coaching is easier or scaling the sales team. That's my two biggest things I do. I coach from 7:00 a.m. to 11:00 and then I do sales calls from 12:00 to 8:00. And I need to Are you doing sales calls?

Yeah.

Okay.

Um, and then the next thing is uh affiliate marketing plays. Uh, cuz right now I got 40 guys who I say I point and they shoot. So I want to figure out how to like really make that into like a back-end revenue model like the CRM softwares and the power dialers and stuff. Like I get like affiliate commissions, but I think there's more out there.

Okay.

Um, so affiliate marketing plays is what I called it. And then also um I really love the the free group into a high ticket model. Um, so I want to make my free group. I want to get it to 100,000 guys this year and then have that as a funnel into my my main one. So

when you do the lead genen thing, this is just me being curious. What is it that you teach them for local lead genen?

Yeah, so it's a it's a hybrid model of rank and write SEO and um SMMA, so Facebook ads for local business. And it's it's high ticket agency closing with

when you're not closing clients, you're basically just building out these legion assets, which is like like uh 519painters.com. Um, like you'll build like a legion asset in that local area and then you'll rank it on Google and it'll get you like I don't know like maybe 10, 15, 20 more leads a month, sell it for like a low recurring

Got it.

So, it's more like a

and it's super sticky because they never cancel those.

They never cancel. Guys pay me for years.

Yeah. My own.

Got it. Cool. Yeah. It's interesting because with AI stuff that's coming back again. I've seen that come like full circle. I don't know if you've seen that but like and I've seen like in the last six months the like start an AI agency. It's way better than using meta ads because now you can get better quality leads that blah blah blah.

So yeah, it's interesting how that comes full circle.

It's come full circle because it was like an older like almost like a dinosaur.

That was 10 years ago and now it's again.

Yeah, but now like you can create infinite websites and the SEO is more powerful. It's pretty savage.

Yeah.

Hello.

Hi, I'm Allison. So sorry for coming in late. I apologize.

I wouldn't have known. You're good. Gotcha.

Um, so I'm a hypnotherapist.

NLP hypnach

hypnotherapist. Yeah. And NLP coach and mindset expert.

And I created the gladiator code for shark which in increased his retention to 100% after they go through it. So you know how people join courses they do a module named dip.

Sure.

After they go through the glary code they never leave. Um, and then 3x is client results. So, I want to know. So, I was Shark's one-on-one coach and then he asked me to make that and three other people have asked me to do that for them and they're getting similar things. So, I just have my one-on-one practice, but three people have asked me for this now. Is this a woman in a red dress or is this like a viable business?

What's the main business?

So, main business oneonone hypnotherapy.

Okay.

Like, and that's not leveraged.

Are you here with Shark or you did you separately come? Okay, got it. Okay. Um, so, yeah, sure. Uh, one-on-one to scale,

right? And it is like the mindset course creation viable. Like

I wouldn't call it that.

I wouldn't call it mindset. That sounds super fluffy. I would just be like, we can get you 100% of people to go through it. Just talk about the outcome. Like your vehicle doesn't matter.

Okay.

To everybody here, the first part of what you said was interesting. The second part doesn't matter to anybody.

Okay? You get what I'm saying? Like all I care about is like we have people do four things and when they do those four things they increase the likelihood that they stick. Period. No one else. Like the rest of it you could be like we do razledazzle and we wear pink shirts and like people's like whatever just give me that.

That makes sense.

So yes, I think that there's a business there.

Okay. So then if if I'm going to pivot to that, how do I do that quickly? And then I want to connect with other coaches and course creators to see like where they're losing clients or where they like drop off because they're intimidated or overwhelmed or whatever other performance issues they're having due to mindset so we can increase that retention. Um, and then you answered my third question.

Oh, sweet.

Which was

already knocking them out.

Do you think it's viable? Should I pivot or should I just stick with

I mean you're going to switch from a like a B to C offer to a B2B offer fundamentally. Um, and so like the pricing is completely different. The the model's just different. But if you can actually do what you say you do, then you will have way more money in that than what you're doing. If you can do what you say you do.

Okay.

Hi, I'm G and my niche is social media consultant and there are three things I want to uh uh discuss. How to convert the people from the free community to paid community.

Okay. in a smoothly way. Something like that. And the pricing strategy for paid committee for each period.

And then the pricing for

for the paid community.

Okay.

For each period.

When you say each period, what do you mean?

Like the first members we uh charge $1. Got it. And then two or something like that. And the last one is the content system to produce for the free community.

Okay. Oh, for the free community.

Not conflict. How to not conflict with the paid community or something like that?

Yep. Okay.

Yeah. Uh, hello, I'm Bruce. uh I'm happy people to start and grow um business with school and um three thing I want to get out the event is first is how to reduce the churns when people doing school to start a business because I'm a um I focus on the affiliate side so that I can uh introduce school to people and some of them like about 30% of them is

churn now.

All right.

So that I want to how to reduce churn. The second is how to help them to reach 10k per month fast. And uh the third thing is how to create a content for community so that people don't feel like overwhelmed. Okay. Decrease overwhelm.

Yes. Got it. Thank you.

Yeah, no worries.

Cool. I'm Christian. I would say I'm in a growth operator, growth partner niche. I'm here with Music Money.

Sweet. Um, a few things I want to do is or just want to learn from everybody else. I feel like everybody's in different niches and doing really cool amazing stuff. So, just learning other strategies. Um, better upsell strategies, right, from low to high ticket. And then the last one's going to be I really want to learn how to scale a community brand and not just with a personal brand. So I want a community to be able to scale itself.

So low ticket to high ticket. Um, and what was the last thing?

Yeah, scaling a community brand. So just you know the community sells itself. So for example, music money. Right now we have Zoven who's a huge producer. I would like people to want to join music money for music money, not just because of the name attached to it.

It's really just branding.

Overall, I kind of have this idea that um we have a lot of other producers and artists that want to work with us and it doesn't really make sense for us to start separate communities for every producer and artist. So, I was like, what if we just created a huge hub?

Mhm.

You know, and had several people and in turn it kind of makes the community more powerful than any one personal brand.

Yeah. There's a there's a whole Did you watch my um mega influencer webinar?

Yep.

Yeah. So, I'll probably talk about some of that stuff. Okay. Sweet. Um, anything on here that last minute as people went around you were like, "Oh, actually,

yeah, I have one."

Sure. What about I guess actually I'll take back one of my questions if I didn't subtract it but

care refund.

Yeah. Yeah.

But what when would it be appropriate actually to create like $1 a month groups? What? Like why why would that be appropriate and when would that be appropriate?

Okay. Yeah.

It's actually happening a lot more. It's mostly because free you can get spam and like just real low quality and putting a dollar there is like the new free.

Yeah.

It's like free

bot free.

It's bot free.

Yeah.

I I question.

Yeah. Shoot, man.

And my name's Levi, guys. I'm I'm with Music Money. We just help artists and producers get to the next level. But

I like your business, by the way.

Thank you, bro. Appreciate it. The the platform fits with the business too well. But um, yeah, I guess a lot of my stuff's already on here, but retention strats obviously. And then uh really I think Chris kind of hit the nail on like the best way to incorporate like more than one partner for the model, I guess, right? The the mega versus many thing. Uh, and then I guess my last thing is like scaling past like Dunbar's number or whatever, if that makes sense. It's like it's a great

Yeah. I feel like our our community calls, they get like real stuck at like the 100 150 level and it's like if we're going to do the mega versus mini thing, I feel like that's going to be our next constraint is like how to make people still feel the love as we're growing that big, you know?

Are you at Dumbass number? How many you got?

Well, we're we're at like 300.

Okay. So, she'll pass it.

Yeah. But the calls I'd say is like they get stuck at Dumbar's number. people like at some point I feel like the mindset is people hop in and they're like, "Man, there's 100 people on here. I ain't about to get my needs addressed individually." So, that's kind of what I'm thinking, you know?

I'm going to just I'm going to head on this right now. I think it's worth it and then we can roll into everything.

Um, so the thing is, and I think preframing the call, just taking like the 60 seconds before you launch into it to kind of set the frame is super valuable. So like for everybody at home right now um they can't get their question answered but it's very likely that they will get their question answered because your questions aren't you [Laughter] late and then just you know how serious are you? Um, no. So, uh, they will get their question, but I think that having that preframe of like, hey guys, let's just like let's point out the obvious. There's 200 people on the call. If every single one of you had a question, then I would have to give 32 seconds to every single person. And it would be really tough. But who here wants to bet that more than you, more than one of you has the exact same question? So, we can even show it right now. It's like retention, retention, retention, decrease churn. And I'll bet you if I just use different language like another one or two of them come down to like how do I key people right and then we have content content branding like a lot of these are going to coales to a handful of questions and we'll hit those and so I will just be very thorough in the questions that I do answer so that you can apply to them and so there's like the two types of people like one type of person's like man that'll never work for me and like winners say like how can I make this work for me and so like be the second Right.

I can talk to this a little bit too. Like

10 times more people watch the recordings of forosis Q&A than show up live.

And it's always like that. Actually, even when I did Quantum, which was a high ticket 100 person mastermind, more people would watch the recordings than would show up live. Look at you. If you look at YouTube, a tiny percentage, it's way less than like 0.1% of users actually make content. But how many people watch it, right? You don't actually need everyone to show up. In fact, you don't want that because it would be a disaster. Like, right? So like you just want you just there has to be a good balance of enough people showing up and then that produces an asset that everyone benefits from, right? Do do you get what I'm saying?

No, that that makes plenty of sense.

Are you recording them?

We are for sure. And I feel like the only thing is I feel like all right, if they're not hopping in calls, then that's like the red flag of churn, right? So I'm like,

but you are you count are you looking at the view count on the videos?

I'm looking at uh uh that's a good point. I don't think I really am looking at it after.

That's the That's the surprising thing actually. So, I'd encourage you to look at that because you think, "Oh, why aren't people showing up? Am I doing something wrong?" And then you see everyone's just watching the replay and they're very happy with it.

I don't think we're promoting the replay as much as we should be because I think we're like more looking for people to actually hop on else calls. So, that could be

You'll never get everyone on the calls. It's silly to try.

Yeah. Also international time zone like there's a pain in the ass from that aspect

but also they it will ruin it if everyone did.

Sure.

Yes.

So it it's like you want it's almost good not to like ram the call down people's throats too much cuz the right people show up with the right questions and that produces the best asset to then distribute with the broader community.

Yeah. Thank you Sam. And the nice thing is the live call attendance self balances. Meaning like if all of a sudden it gets like too big, then people stop attending it and then it gets smaller and then people are like, "Oh, it's small." And then they come back in. So like it kind of balances on both sides.

I love that.

Yeah.

I actually have the exact opposite experience. So I I have like 30 30 to 40 people attend the calls and then those who miss always say like, "Hey, where's the recording?" So we created just a course in the classroom just for the recordings but they don't watch it

even though it's like categorized.

Try sharing it in a post instead.

Yeah, we do

in a post like this in the classroom.

Yeah. Yeah. When there's a post related to the call, there's always people like where's the recording? Where's the recording? So we always point them to the classroom, but it gets like eight views the recording.

Yeah. What I'm saying is look at how we do it in the school games. I dialed this in with quantum because I ran a mastermind for eight years and I tweaked it to find the ultimate just most simple elegant model. So we do the Q&A call that's the calendar. The calendar is the the calendar keeps the tempo of the group. It's like the the tempo and it's and it's about live things and people show up live. You record those and then after the call, like pretty much immediately afterwards, as soon as you can upload the recording from Zoom, you do a post in the community and you say, "Here's like the call recording from today's call." And you just put the link in there, right? And then you post it and then you can even like pin it and then you can put it in a category called Q&A recordings, right? because people will see, oh, here's the like it's like if you think about it, it's a group podcast made by the people who show up like, but I can tell you if you put it in classroom, it just looks like all the other content and there's nothing telling people that this is new. So, it'll just it'll just die there.

Yeah. I wanted to move it out of classroom because like we do free calls a week. So, that's like stacking module and then

that's the other thing. Classroom isn't designed for that kind of thing. Yeah. You also have the pin to module feature though that helped us a lot

because you can you can use the categories like he's saying but you can also double up even if you've got a lot you can stack modules within a uh sorry stack posts within a module and so you can digest all the same topic or this was all done this week or something like that and that helped us two times the people that would watch it. I'm just going to hit this again because it's like I I have a feeling this will be this really deep recurring theme for all of school communities, but it's more isn't necessarily better. And so like we had like literally look at what we had three calls a week that were Q&A calls to the community and we do we just removed all those made them public marketing for the community basically is what we're doing with the the podcast now. And then it's just one call a week. And so like fundamentally like the the ideal scene is that 100% of the people in the community consume 100% of the content you put out. But if you actually wanted them to consume 100% like most like the I think the vast majority of creators in the in school put out too much stuff into their community and people are like I can't watch two things a day. I'm not going to read three posts plus your Q&A call. It's like your entire life is this this community but their entire life isn't. if they just get like one nugget a month, usually they're like, "Oh, this is totally worth it. I love this thing." And so, I mean, I'm I'm taking this from the offline world, but they learned this in the in the gym space, which was if you had a racketball court and a pool and a whatever and all these things, people actually perceived that they were getting a lower percentage of the value because they only came for the pool or they only came for the basketball court. And so, even though it was like an all-in-one price, they were like, "Well, I'm only using 8%." And so the reason Planet Fitness was able to come in and wedge themselves in the market is they just removed all the other stuff and said the vast majority of people use cardio and some people use weights. And so they just made the gym that way, priced it way lower, and then everyone's like, "Okay, cool. I use this." Now, I'm not even going to get into the consumption model of fitness, but like fundamentally that at least from the purchasing perspective, they're like, "Okay, I'm not going to waste my money by not using all these other features." Okay, cool. Um, all right. So, if we're looking at this, what did we do last time? Did I tear these off and then start fresh? Do you remember?

On the floor.

Yeah, I pulled them on the floor, right? Yeah. Let's do that.

I took I took notes as well. So, like

Yeah,

I've I've got notes of what everyone said.

Cool. Or I'll just do this.

All right. People love timestamps as well in the Q&A recordings.

I was going to ask that for you. Yeah,

because if they like they just scrub through and they're like, "Oh, retention click. Watch two minutes." And they're like, "Wow, this this is amazing."

And then they probably get hooked. They're like, "Watch the two minutes." And then they're like, "Oh, that was really good. I wonder if there's something else."

So like add just one time stamp or time stamp.

Every question time stamp so that someone can just look through a contents page basically and say, "That's my problem. Watch that segment. That's my problem. I had a similar idea to take the best part of the recording maybe like 5 to 10 minutes post it on YouTube on the second channel and see like this is a part of the call recordings if you want you can attend the whole thing.

I know Hamza does that for some

and also transcript means you can use

let's start with acquisition. So um let's start with acquisition. So, um, right now you had asked questions about acquisition overall, just kind of, uh, with broad brushstrokes. We had two people ask about content. Um, you mentioned the IG IG growth funnel. Someone over here. Yep. IG growth funnel. Um,

yeah, let's talk about ways you guys grew your groups and ways you guys are growing your groups because I'm sure you can all learn some different things from each other.

Yeah.

So, it's using a free school group.

Okay.

Okay. So essentially what we do is we create like content on YouTube um Instagram stories. We're doing a bit of cold outreach as well. That would really help with this.

So you're doing content?

Yeah. But content

is one of them. You're doing outreach to the people who follow and all that stuff on your content.

Yeah. And um also we were getting like school organic traffic as well.

Yeah. Starting to do that.

Yeah.

What ranking are you?

Ranking

your pre-roup like you know you're in discovery. H no idea. Like we didn't optimize for that.

I am

be worth looking at.

Goose told me he checks that more than anything else. He like goes to his settings and sees his rank and he keeps checking it.

I was surprised. I was like I didn't know people were doing that. And I said why? And he said because we get a lot of customers from school.

Yeah.

So people go

Yeah. He actually did no external things. He just was growing on school. Yeah. He's growing on school by looking at the discovery page.

We contributing like in other communities, right? Like Goose was contributing in other communities, hanging out with people, but then his community was engaged, so it ranked high and then it started to get more people discovering it.

I saw Goose everywhere.

Anytime I got on school, I saw goose.

Oh, that's awesome.

How many do you know how many searches a day we get on school?

I don't know.

A lot. Why?

Like, yeah, there's there's a lot. Um,

but the pro honestly there's more visits to profiles.

That makes sense.

Yeah.

And then they go profile and then

more traffic goes through the profiles.

So, if you're a member like Goose was contributing in other communities and being not like doing fake value posts, but like

being fun.

Yeah.

And then people were like, "Who's this guy?" They view his profile. Oh, this group looks interesting. that that's how you kind of kickstart it and then when people start joining the group now the group's up on discovery and now both are working.

Yeah.

But I wouldn't underestimate profiles. They're like

there's a lot of traffic on those.

They like they also join from other people's uh profiles as well.

Exactly.

Like I've done this a lot. Even like paid communities. I just see a random community that someone bought and I just join it just to see what it's about.

Yeah.

How often do you guys look at someone's profile on school?

Like all the time.

It's like Instagram. like what you

It shocked me when I looked at it.

People are viewing profiles like almost

almost almost as much or more than posts.

They like really explore the network. Yeah.

So probably worth for everybody at home too like that two seconds you took to make your profile like maybe take 10 seconds, you know. But Zane, so you have so you have content, you have outreach. Um, we'll get you. Don't worry about it. Um, we have content, we have outreach. What do you what else you join?

Yes, it's like the school organic. So people just click in my profile. Um, and it also being other people's profiles as well, you know, they just join our curiosity. Yeah.

So we then get those people, they join the free school group as well. So we promote on like whatever platforms.

So how do they um so in in each of these? So you make content and do you have it in like the description and do you integrate into the content like hey?

Yeah. So I just like leave the link in the description also. I put in my Instagram bio. So actually in YouTube videos where I just promoted my Instagram. People would join the Instagram or they follow me on Instagram and they just join the community out of curiosity. Even though I didn't promote it, it was just in the bio. Um, with outreach, we didn't promote the free group. That's only like if people weren't interested, we just like, "Okay, we've got this free group. You might want to join it." And then with school, people would just join naturally.

Okay.

Um, so I say bio links.

Yeah.

Plus description.

Yeah.

Okay. Got that. And so And what's in there? Is that the the free group or the the paid group?

Uh, it's all free. Okay. So, this is this goes to the free group, free school. Got it. All right. What else?

Okay. So, when they join, they get the auto DM, which is the first line of our DM script. Okay. And then we also in the classroom section. So, we have like a start here post that tells them to go to the classroom.

So, DM as soon as they join the free school.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah. It's all on the free group.

Got it. Okay. And then we also have like a start here like pinned post that tells people to watch a course and there's a pinned course as well. So that's in the classroom section. And the course is essentially like a perfect webinar by like Russell Branson.

Like we kind of break it into a course but it's like a perfect webinar.

Yeah.

And it indoctrinates them to like book a call and then we just close them on the call and then we also did the DMs as well.

So you CTA to call and then what do you do to maintain the value in the community?

Yes. Yeah. So, our community is actually like it's extremely like inactive. So, I'll just put a post like now and then. But it's like the members who are inactive are the ones buying though. It's like

cuz they they you have like zombies or like dead bodies there.

Yeah. So, like the free community has I think it had like 400ish members, 450ish, and we got like 53 sales. So, it was very like high converting.

Yeah.

Yeah. So, it's pretty active there. But the community was dead. But

yeah, people

So, you converted 14% of people who went to your free thing.

Yeah. Exactly. into your Got it. And did you convert them into just a higher ticket paid community? Is that what it was?

Yes, it was 999. Yeah.

And that's why it's dead, by the way.

because you just took the most engaged people and moved out.

But your high ticket community is engaged.

Yeah. That's that's completely

accurate. Basically,

if you take your most engaged people and you take them out and put them somewhere else and like talk here instead, of course,

It makes total sense. No, it's like the people who are inactive were joining the high >> because they're active there. >> Yeah. Yeah, it's true. That's actually true. >> No, that's exactly why. Yeah. >> Yeah. And we also tested this with someone else as well. So, um, he was going to enter the school games, but he just kind of gave up. But he was making like $500 a month, and we got him to $10,900 this month. So, what the funnel was was TikTok and Instagram, real short-form content for the school community. Exact same process, and we basically 20xed his income.

>> So literally just drawing. I mean, I was saying this the other day because, um, somebody asked me this question, I think on a Q&A call, but it's like, how do I convert people from free to paid? And I still think that the single simplest way to do that is just like, depending on the price point. Like, if it's a low-ticket paid, then you just add the onboarding call to personalize their experience, which then it's like, "Hey, what are your goals? What are your obstacles right now?" You know, "What you might be a really good fit or whatever," and then you can just sell straight into it. Um, if it's higher ticket, then you have your, you know, your VSSL or your webinar or whatever that you incorporate into their onboarding process and allow them to self-select if it's a, you know, $5,000 or whatever, you know, plus offer.

>> That's probably the most, I can imagine that would be the most widely adopted method.

>> This one?

>> Yeah.

>> It's simple.

>> It's the most easy to understand. I mean, I almost didn't understand anything else that I heard, but that.

>> Yeah.

>> I've seen that being used over and over and over again, like in a lot of slightly different ways, but.

>> Because a free community, if you've got content and then you're promising a free community, conversion rates are through the roof. It's the most efficient mechanism to convert them.

>> It's a lead magnet. I mean, fundamentally, community.

>> Yeah.

>> And like on the free community as well, you make like indoctrination posts. It's like, you know, how Russell Brun talks about like the internal beliefs, the external beliefs. You, you just basically shut out all their limiting beliefs.

>> We need to make a note to make a training on it.

>> Yeah, I was I'm going to simplify, I'm going to do a simple version of this which is just traffic, free group, free school.

>> It's the group funnel.

>> Yeah.

>> Free school.

>> We already have that training.

>> Yeah, but it's old and in the wrong place.

>> And it was for high ticket.

>> Yeah. And it's for, yeah, exactly. Exactly.

>> But that works so well.

>> I It's probably the most common pattern on School is, I think someone did an analysis that almost everyone ranking in discovery and leaderboards has two groups, one free, one paid. It's like the >> funnel. Yeah.

>> It's a tactic and it works. Yeah.

>> So this, like for everybody at home, traffic, free school, DM to web, plus all, basically you just drive everything there. Your pin post there, you make content, you soft toss it, be like, "Hey, make sure >> you're doing the pitch in the classroom," which kind of is disarming because you're like, "Oh, this isn't a webinar."

>> Yeah.

>> It's it's a module.

>> And we've got some people to rather than making like one long video, because this is what I teach the students a lot is to break it up into small videos and like distribute the webinar like that.

>> Make it not look like.

>> Yeah.

>> It's like there's four videos, an introduction, and then three core stories, and the fifth video is, "I've got this thing for you." And it puts everyone off guard as well, because like, I don't sign up to webinars anymore because like I'm in that space. This just puts people off guard completely.

>> Yeah.

>> Every step of this is like extremely efficient because like I know if you have a link in bio to a free group, it absolutely crushes. Like those groups are the ones that are at the top of discovery.

>> Because it's just so efficient. We see 80% conversion rates on the pages. Like >> and so you get them in, and then the auto DM sends like 100% of people.

>> And then you put them to that module, and that module, it starts the funnel. And the funnel is like module one, module two.

>> And then you get them onto a call.

>> Which is probably going to be the most efficient method at converting free to paid.

>> And some people, they don't even book the call. So they watch the course, they don't book the call, but then when you DM them, they're like, "Oh, yeah. I've watched the course." And then they do it. So it's like.

>> So, you DM again. So, basically, after they watch it, you follow up, DM.

>> No. So, we just DM them anyway. But some people just still watch the course and then book, or they'll book later on, they'll just come back to it. And as long as you're making the posts, then they're like, they find, they go back to the course to get the link and then they book it.

>> Yeah.

>> How much is the thing that you're selling them? The paid group.

>> So, it's $9.99 a month.

>> Okay.

>> But this could work even for a cheaper thing, like, like you don't have to do high ticket. You don't even, you don't even have to do a call. Actually, it could just be selling a $99 a month thing over DMs and maybe even a call. Because for, I'm just thinking for beginners, >> you need, because you don't have a ton of traffic and a ton of like, like privileges to work with, essentially. You have to like get the most efficient conversion at every point.

>> Right? Because you're looking to squeeze every last drop. It's also, I mean, this is also from a, from a technical complexity, like this is pretty simple. Click to free to, you make the five modules, and then you talk to them and ask them.

>> But yeah, this is the most effective. It works amazingly well as well, because, >> especially with the short-form content, this is something I realized recently.

>> Um, so the guy we was working with, he had like 900 members. He made one post and like 800 people joined. And we were like, "That's insane." And of course, we booked like hundreds of sales calls from that. Yeah, it's monster. This is very simple. I like this a lot. Do this. This is great. Really good.

>> The thing that I, I keep, I keep. This is me making a bet. Um, is that I will bet that there's going to be a lot more thousand a month type, quote, high ticket, like shifting over. Um, partially because of what you noticed, which is if you can double or triple acquisition, because it's LTV to CAC ratio, and so you can still drive down CAC a lot to improve that ratio. And so I think, I mean, the the space always has like a vibe, right? Like you have like the rank and rent, which is kind of coming back, right? I think in the high ticket world, there's a lot of, a lot of people, like the pendulum swung a little bit this way, and I think it's kind of coming back just a tiny bit.

>> Um, where people, this is why like brand and content and like value in advance is becoming more and more important, because there's not a lot of trust. And to be fair, there was, there will always be less and less trust over time.

>> Um, and the more mature the platforms get, the less just eyeball arbitrage exists. Like, if you remember for that five seconds that Clubhouse was a thing, like I had, I knew plenty of people who went on there and then were doing like a hundred thousand a day on Clubhouse because it was just, it was just huge arbitrage of eyeballs. They're getting way more exposure than they normally would. But as platforms kind of settle, then it's like, okay, who's legit starts to rise and who makes the best content and things like that. And so, right now, there's not like, besides School, there's not like another platform that's really like emerging. And so, um, it's my belief that that's why trust, that's why content stuff is so important. It's because it'll improve conversion across the funnel. And I think that this whole, um, thousand a month, like instead of being the $3,000, $4,000 a month, I think a lot more people are willing to stomach the $999 a month, um, because they can see. And as soon as we roll out more stuff with like reviews and things like that, it'll just make it more and more trusted.

>> And I was talking, um, the other day about this, but like, if I could start Gym Launch all over again, the probably the biggest thing that I would have done differently is I would have probably tried to make it like 10 grand a year. And I would have put all my focus on, "How do I keep 80, 90% of my customers renewing?" And, um, that would have been my main focus. Like, I just want such a crazy valued price discrepancy that no one would leave, um, and they would refer more people, etc., etc., because I would have probably acquired two, three, four times the customers, but they also would have stuck, uh, longer. Because like over the last, however many years, we've done like 5,500 locations that have gone through Gym Launch, and like, if all 5,500 of those locations were still paying me, I'd be richer than I am today.

>> Um, and so I, I think about that a lot of, like, sure, there's on one hit, like when you don't know how to sell, it's very exciting to like start raising your price and be like, "Oh my god, I just sold $10,000. Oh my god, I sold $20. Oh my god, $100,000." Like, it gets really cool. But once you learn how to acquire customers, you then become completely obsessed on the other side, which is, "Oh shoot, you realize the game." Like, Sam and I have talked about this at length, which is, you don't want to keep having to go get customers. I mean, of course, you have, like, you want to be able to go get customers, but not to *have* to go get customers. And so like, that's the big difference. And so like, when I look at businesses now, I care almost exclusively about, "How much does this thing grow in word of mouth? How much, like, what percentage of customers stay every year once they're like in and activated and whatnot?" Because then it means that I get credit for customers I sold two years ago. And so even if you sold 100 customers a year, if you can keep all of them, 10 years from now, you're 10 times bigger. And so the vast majority of like the internet marketing world focuses on growing by simply selling more units because they can't keep anybody. But the people who make the most money just don't lose customers. But you have to like learn how to sell in order to get there. But like, this is kind of the evolution that happens. And so pricing, I like my thoughts on pricing has changed from the the old school Dan Kennedy model, which is like, "Say as high of a price as you can without cracking a smile."

>> Like it swung back a little bit more to like, "Well, let's just make them smile at how blown away they are with the value that we have," and then they're more likely to tell their friends, more likely to stay longer. And then like, I wildly underestimate how how much word of mouth affects these businesses. Like, some of you guys have probably bought coaching courses and whatnot because a friend of yours was like, "Oh, I went through his YouTube training. It was actually really good." And then that guy doesn't know that you were told that. He just sees an ad and he sees a conversion and he's like, "Oh, my ads are killing it." But it's not that. It's because the product's really good. And so like, in the early days of Gym Launch, we got a 100 to 1 return on advertising. It wasn't because my ads were exceptional. It was because everybody who was going through was just printing money. And so like, that's the, that's the, the big shift. And those are the guys who make the most money, is the ones who actually have a pretty good product. So that was my little soliloquy. But yeah.

>> Yeah. I have a question on the pricing because I did, you know, the what you said, "charge as high of a price," and I tried to increase it, but I didn't follow the principle of only increase the price after sufficiently increasing value. So I noticed the people are much more likely to ask for a refund at the higher price. Before it was $77 a month. Now it's $137.

>> Mhm.

>> Should I suggest going down to $87, which is still bigger than the previous price?

>> That's not a huge price change.

>> Okay.

>> Yeah, just $77 to $137 is not like a math. I mean, it's a, there's definitely going to be a jump in terms of conversion, or like, rather a drop in conversions.

>> Um, but the, all all you're optimizing for is conversion rate times LTV. That's like, that's the whole equation. So like, we talked about the four levers in this business, right? Like, you've got traffic, you've got conversion, you've got price, and you've got churn. Like, those are the four levers. So like, to grow the business, you have to increase, well, decrease churn, but increase the other three, right? And so if you know that, let's say you've got 100 clicks to a page, let's say at $77, you convert twice as many customers. Well, it comes down to really just like, what's your earning per eyeball. And in the affiliate world, it's called EPCs, which is earnings per click. And so you just literally want to make the most money per click over the longest period of time. And so now, if the $77 converts at twice the percentage of the $137, and they churn at half the rate, then over, when you do that hypothetical max calculation, you'll, you'll be like, literally, all of this is just math. You just plot the, see what it looks like, see where it maxes out, see what the other one maxes out at, and you're like, "Okay, that's the price."

>> So how would I do that if I'm sending people straight from YouTube to a buy page on School?

>> You look at what it's at $137 or whatever, and then you know, you knew what your metrics were at $77.

>> Mhm.

>> Right. And so you just compare what's the. So here, let's just do the math. So let's say you've got $77. Oops. There we go. That's a seven. All right. There. Uh, and what was churn on $77?

>> Well, I don't have the exact number, so that's another issue, obviously.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

>> Like.

>> Let's just walk through it hypothetically.

>> Like three months average would stay people.

>> Okay. So that would be 33% churn, right?

>> Yeah.

>> And so you divide that by churn.

>> I have bad numbers because I started like, few months ago.

>> Dude, you're fine. Don't worry about it. Uh, on $147, it's probably like two months only.

>> Okay, cool. All right. So $137 divided by 50% churn means you just double $137, right? And so you've got, uh, what is that? $274 is LTV here. And then here you've got, uh, what's that, divide times three?

>> Um.

>> What was that?

>> $241.

>> Thank you. $240, $241.

>> $31.

>> $31. Okay, cool. So LTV here is bigger than here. But then the question comes into conversion, right? Which happens before this. So then you're like, "All right, what percentage of clicks do I convert here? What percentage of clicks do I convert here?" And so can someone do, um, uh, $274 divided by $231 for me?

>> 1.186.

>> Right. So if you can convert more than 20% more on this one than this one, this makes you more money. Does that make sense?

>> Yeah.

>> How would I track that? If I'm sending people from YouTube straight to School about.

>> You've got to just use some like fancy guesswork, but you should have got a feel of like, when you were making a video link, how many kind of members joined?

>> Yeah. Okay.

>> And do you know if there was a big drop or if it kind of stayed the same? I mean, it there probably was a decrease, but not, you know, more than 20% or whatever.

>> Well, 20% might be hard to feel.

>> Yeah.

>> Because it'd be like, one day you get four, one day you get three, like five. Like that might be tough to feel.

>> Um.

>> I know that that metric is coming out soon anyways for us. So once, as soon as that conversion metric's on there.

>> I've already looked at it, by the way, like L conversion rates across the platform.

>> There's a, the biggest indicator is the price, obviously.

>> Yeah.

>> Right. Yeah. I mean, some free groups convert at 80%. Um, but the difference between, you know, something that's like 10, 20, 30, those things can convert like 5%. But once you get a price that's like over 100, it drops significantly.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. And so here, we know what each of these is worth. And so you're just thinking, "What percentage of people buy it?" And that's the conversion. And so if 50% more people buy this, then you're like, "Okay, well, then 50% even, I'm making 50% more sales at this price versus," I mean, this is just a classic like chart of pricing versus volume. That's all it is. I really want to make to make sure it makes sense though.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay. This is how you figure out pricing. And I would just encourage you guys to be willing to test. Like the, um, PC who owns Who, who just sold ProfitWell, um, they did this big meta-study, but basically, the more frequently you analyze price, the more profitable your company is. Just, it's like a direct correlation. So companies that never look at their price or never adjust their price are way less profitable than ones that look at it annually, which are less profitable than the ones that look at quarterly. So just be willing to test price. I got some questions for you though, like, which one do you think is making you more money on your traffic, because your traffic's probably remained somewhat a constant, right?

>> Well, I'm not pushing as hard as during the School Games, you know, because selling every video and I don't want to do that for long-term brand.

>> So, it's hard to compare, but I would say it's more like the optics of being less than $100 a month feels like different, you know, than over $100 a month.

>> So, which one do you think was more efficient? Probably $77, because it's like, I feel like the product has more, more aligned with the value there. And >> your your audience is younger, I'm guessing.

>> No, they're not.

>> 25 to 60 males.

>> Well, I'll tell you personally, we have a portfolio company that we ran, um, this is like, this is like, you guys might find this really interesting. So, we ran, uh, we ran, we ran a high-ticket upsell and we tested $50k, $35k, $25k, and $15k, wildly different price points. I'm just a, I love this [ __ ].

>> Um, and so what's really interesting is that the conversion rate time, basically the revenue we generated from all four of those was identical. And so on one hand, you might think, "Oh, well, I'd rather just have fewer customers at $50,000." But for me personally, I would rather have more people that I can, again, what's my value or price discrepancy, as provided the cost of goods is not like, you know, like I don't want to eat into, you know, crazy margins or something, but provided the margin on all, you know, all the the the services are still pretty good. I would rather have four times the customers to then sell, keep, and then also have a crazy, like, in terms of word of mouth from those people saying that my thing is unbelievable.

>> That makes sense? Do you know what I've noticed? Like high ticket, you can like change your price and conversion doesn't move much. But with the lower ticket, it really does.

>> Which I think it's because it's more intimate. Like when you buy something that's real high ticket, you're, it's small and you're talking to a human and everything. But when it's lower ticket, it, it does seem to make a big difference. Because a high ticket, fundamentally, if you believe you're going to get this big, expensive outcome, then logically, $25k and $35k, like, if you go and make a billion dollar business, they're both worth it, like, right? Um, it just like comes down to whether you can actually afford the, you know, the difference. And so I think it becomes like a structural conversion difference where, what I mean by that is like, some people literally can't afford the difference between, you know, $15k versus $50k. Like there's just some people who just literally can't afford it, even they both might want to buy it.

>> Um, but yeah, here you're, you're selling in, in a, you're alone. It's like you with the, your finger over the button. You're like.

>> I mean, my fear is that if I decrease it to $87, I would piss off all the people that joined at $147.

>> Yeah.

>> So, like, how would I test the price then?

>> Well, the worst case is they could cancel and come back. Not the end of the world. Because so, just to, just for everybody here, like, just from a perspective, um, taking, if you plan on having this business for a long time, then it's not going to make any difference. Like, you figuring out what the right price point is for your community is going to be the thing that matters most. And so like, you might lose a month, like you're turning already at whatever 50%, they're going to be gone in two months anyways.

>> So, like, I'm just being, like, really real, right? So, like, you, we want to tweak this stuff to get the right.

>> That's high, by the way. Yeah.

>> Like, that's way above.

>> What should I aim for at this price point?

>> Below 20%.

>> Yeah.

>> Like, good is good is like in between five and 10.

>> Yeah.

>> Like, 20% is.

>> Like, average.

>> Is, yeah, because I, I actually analyzed it.

>> Yeah.

>> I actually put the whole platform's numbers into ProfitWell.

>> Oh, sick.

>> Yeah. It took ProfitWell for like seven days to to process it, and it almost broke it.

>> Um, because there's like 50 transactions a second almost.

>> Um, but it's like, yeah, the, that's probably around the average. What's interesting is it's coming down every month.

>> Because I think people are learning more about what works and what doesn't work.

>> Um, but the good ones are sub 10.

>> But so if you're 50, that price is too high.

>> I don't, I don't have data to be honest.

>> Yeah. Okay. This is.

>> An it. You can do it if you just, if you have like four hours and some coffee.

>> Yeah.

>> Go to your churned members, and it'll click on their membership, and it will tell you their LTV. We calculated on a per-member level.

>> So just go and fill out your own spreadsheet.

>> Yeah.

>> Um, and you'll figure it out, like, it's the numbers are there. That's what I said. You just have to use some.

>> Some different methods. And for the, like, general churn, should I just export, like, the list of all members and compare that to, like, week to week or something?

>> No, no. You want to look at your churned members will tell you their LTV. So you want to see all of your churn members and their LTVs and then look at the average LTV. That's your LTV. That from there you can reverse engineer your churn.

>> Because LTV.

>> Would be divided by your price. That gives you your, you can do the math.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That answers it. Yeah.

>> Cool. Awesome. Well, this is great. I know that we.

>> Yeah, go for it.

>> So, just going back to, well, on pricing too, and we were saying with Gym Launch, I, I do believe I could sell what I've built for $30k. Like, I believe I sell it for $30k, whatever. But I also do have a painting business. That's my, is my main focus, and I am also willing to sell that same thing for $97.

>> So, just to go.

>> This is what my advice to you, uh, would be because I understand your business outside of this business. I think that I would try and I would want it to be just high, high enough of a price that they care. And so maybe make it $5,000 a year, maybe $10,000. But the whole purpose is not to make money. I mean, sure, you'll make money doing that, but the real money is that if you can get those people to then open your version of painting under your logo and basically you can consolidate and have them use your systems and whatnot, then it's like they kind of basically become partners of yours as they open up locations underneath of your flag. And if you have the capital, then you can front. I'm sure the capital's not too big for starting painting stuff.

>> I would, I mean, do you know, I mean.

>> It's like $27 net.

>> Right. You can afford it.

>> Um, so, so like I would be like, "I'll front the capital, you can get 20% and I'll give you a base and then I'll show you how to run the business or whatever," and like, "You're going to be a co-owner." Like, that's, I think that might be the mega play for you. And then you can still use that to have that, have skin in the game, and you take that community and skim from the top. So, it's like, you let the, like, you don't need to take, you don't need to bet on them. You let them, you hold tryouts, you know, and put the pull, pull sticks in and just see who kills each other and wins the leaderboard. And I'll bet you if your leaderboard was about who is the, who's the next one who's going to be able to partner with you, bet your leaderboard would go.

>> Take notes.

>> Cool. So, you got what you need to do.

>> I have a, I have a quick question.

>> Yeah, shoot. You had that one form, that one equation. Conversion rate times LTV. Was there like an equals to it?

>> Conversion rate where?

>> Yeah, you wrote it on the, I think you flipped it over on the other page.

>> Oh, traffic bottom.

>> I don't believe that that's what it was, but I don't know if you said that, that you finished the equation.

>> Oh, for, uh, these guys at the top.

>> Yeah. Yeah, I think we're just talking about like cost.

>> So, this is price divided by churn equals LTV.

>> Okay. That's what this, that's what this is. And then traffic times conversion. This is the other two of this is. Then you've got price as your levers. And then you have, uh, churn. So these are the four levers of the business that we're talking about. So if you want to make more money in your community, you either have to drive more traffic to it, you have to convert a higher percentage of that traffic, you have to price it as high as you can, and you, and this is all balanced with churn. Which is, okay, well, I can raise my price, but does that also increase churn and by how much? And so that's why we're find, like, it's balanced between these two, and price also affects conversion. So there's a bidirectional relationship between churn, price, and conversion. And then this is, this is the machine, right? This is your business machine, right? This is the machine that we have at School. This is what you drive into it, which is the traffic. So this is the effort that you guys are doing on a regular basis. This is the inputs into the, like, this is the big black box of making money. This is School. And then this is what we're driving traffic, whether that's Facebook ads, or whether that's content, or direct outreach, or whatever it is. This then just flows into the machine.

>> You're looking for the maximum, like, yield.

>> Yeah.

>> So, like, how much dollars per click, in a way, right? And all of these variables play into that. And you're looking for, like, the most efficient way to turn a click into some money. And, yeah.

>> Couldn't you just put that in School, like, this metric, you know, and just get that number so we see it, because you have all the stats?

>> No, which one?

>> Well, I mean, like, yeah, I can calculate that. It's.

>> Like, if we had that, you know, if you go into the dashboard, you can see the MR. If we could see that right underneath, or maybe like, you know, the churn, so we can see it in real time, because it's easy to see increases in MR, but like, this takes more effort. That's a good point. Like, I, you, the next kind of metric we're rolling out is like the traffic and conversion stats. That helps, because now you can see your conversion and your clicks, right? And I already have that data, and I've already looked at it. That's why I had some insight. And then we've already got the churn data too. So I guess, yeah, that would be an interesting formula. It would be like EPC, earnings per click.

>> I think, yeah.

>> That could be a cool thing to see. And then.

>> Yeah, good idea.

>> Sweet. Um, that helped you with the equation piece.

>> Also, Sam, the, um, that one website you were talking about that took you like eight hours or eight days. What was that?

>> Uh, ProfitWell.

>> Oh, yeah. It's, I don't know if it'll be useful for you. Like, it's just a, you can, it just digests like a bunch of data and it can tell you some key subscription stats. Um, I was just curious to see what some of them were, like churn across the whole platform and the outliers, like who had really good retention, and what was the average.

>> What was that called?

>> ProfitWell.

>> Yeah. ProfitWell.com.

>> Yeah. Yeah, they just got acquired by Paddle.

>> It's starting to not work so well now.

>> Yeah.

>> So, but PC, who founded it, is a really very smart guy. Really good guy. Like, I've learned so, like, I've learned a lot of what I know about pricing from from PC. Really, really smart guy. Um, okay. So, uh, feel good.

>> Great.

>> Fantastic. Okay.

>> How does the discovery work? Uh, what's the ranking based on?

>> Engagement. Engagement. So that's amount of people in your group and how much they engage with each other. Posts, comments, likes, that sort of stuff.

>> Okay.

>> I can tell you a little bit more if you want.

>> Sure.

>> Yeah. So we look at number of new members, right? So if you're continuously adding more members each day, that that's good. We look at number of posts, number of comments, and number of likes.

>> Okay. But it's mostly activities. If you think of a post as an activity, a comment as an activity, and a like as an activity, and then, and you see a new member as an activity, right? Just activity. And then we look over a period of time, but we have like an exponential time decay. So, we, we value recency has more weight than the past, but we don't, we still care about the past, but we want there to be some movement on there, too. So that's why like Anime Shreds just was bam, number one. Um, that's basically what we do.

>> Okay. Yeah, makes sense.

>> That help?

>> Yeah.

>> Ours is pretty simple.

>> Love it. Tell me, tell me your symbol model. All right.

>> So, if you're on School, especially in like the last couple of months, you've probably noticed that there's a lot of really good value there, but it was getting stuffy. There wasn't a whole lot of like personability.

>> Okay.

>> Or fun, so to speak. So it was an obvious niche, and um, it kind of happened organically where, uh, the offer was solid, funnel builder, stuff like this. Different business model though. Instead of it being a high ticket all upfront and then we give you the package and then [ __ ] off. This one was, "Hey, we'll work with you and you just give us a subscription."

>> So Mr.

>> And.

>> Is it $999? What's the price?

>> $999.

>> Okay, cool.

>> So that was the price.

>> And so we started with what you guys were talking about, free and high ticket.

>> So two groups.

>> Two groups. Yeah.

>> Okay. Yeah. This is a, yeah, recurring theme.

>> But, but it keeps going. And something else that I think.

>> So where was traffic coming from?

>> Just School.

>> Okay.

>> We, to this day, we've never made a single >> nothing. Not even >> Instagram. My friends don't know that this is going.

>> No one knows.

>> Yeah. Okay. Got it. So traffic was going to free group, right?

>> Um, yeah, traffic was going to free.

>> Okay.

>> However, School Games front page would bring people to paid. So we had a link there that said, "Here's the free."

>> Okay. Interesting.

>> Because that's where a lot of people were coming.

>> So it's actually kind of like this.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Anybody have a simpler one where.

>> Yeah. I said I was gonna answer your question. What's up?

>> Selling like 15 people, eight bought within the first hour.

>> Okay.

>> And so everyone's like, "Who the hell is this guy?" And then from that, it sort of was a nice flywheel.

>> And the pre-sale you did inside of the free group?

>> Uh, yeah, actually it was friends, family members, basically anybody that had something that we could offer.

>> Was it a Zoom link?

>> Did you do like a Zoom?

>> No, it was like in-person phone calls.

>> Okay. People in the world way we knew.

>> People in the world.

>> Just hitting the floor, the pavement.

>> Okay.

>> So, um, that was what got it going.

>> Yeah.

>> But then from that point on, um, what we were doing was sharing, I mean, Sam doesn't like this phrase, but you know, we'll have to come up with a different one. A a valuable post, something that had it in there.

>> I wouldn't call what you were doing a value post. I think.

>> No, this is really interesting though, because I think this industry's gotten real weird with value posts. Do you know what I mean?

>> It's like people posting value, but no one cares.

>> Yeah.

>> Because it's not even value, it's just some [ __ ] opinion or article. And like, what Goose did differently is he, he made things fun and got other people to contribute on his post. So his posts blew up way more than value posts. There was like hundreds of comments, and they were really fun and like alive. And so he bought like personality, fun, and like, I would say personality and fun posts, and that those were like crushing. A lot of people engaged, and then a lot of people were like, "Who is this guy?" And they viewed his profile, then they saw his stuff. Then he got on the leaderboards, and now he's got another thing feeding him, and then he got on discovery, and now there's another thing. So by making things fun and adding some personality and being interesting, and not just trying to like post articles, you, everyone kind of started to know who he was, and then that energy started going there, and then it started looping on itself. There was like a feedback loop. It was really interesting to see that happen, honestly.

>> Yeah. And it'll probably start happening more in the future. I >> think the gift group is the the next one. So, we're starting to see this new pattern actually where funny things are working really well.

>> This guy made a group. It's a pure joke.

>> Yeah.

>> When you get to level nine, you get kicked out.

>> It's really funny. Like, see how, see what that does to everyone instantly. And every, all of these serious business owners with seven-figure businesses are joining and just laughing.

>> Yeah.

>> And posting funny [ __ ]. And like, I love that. I think there's definitely something that we, a topic we could talk about today about community culture.

>> Yeah.

>> Because I think that's how you get retention and that's how you get raving fans, is if there's a culture and a vibe to it. Um, and that's starting to happen and work, honestly, more effective than the logic that I'm seeing really start to take off. It's quite interesting.

>> That's probably how I define it. Culture.

>> Yeah. Entertainment business. In other words, too.

>> I think what's goo is really great at is making posts that are really engaging. Like, I even, like, again, plenty of seven-figure business owners are just like, like to make it fun. So that's like your thing that you brought. It's like not a value post, just like posts that drive engagement and to make people like collaborate, which is huge.

>> Yeah. Excellent. Um, there's a, there's a theory that I have behind it that actually is something that people can probably start to use because it's kind of, I didn't realize it until I was looking in retrospect, but it's something that I call, um, broccoli wrapped in bacon.

>> Where it looks really stupid and fun, so you're curious about it, but by the time you're done reading, you actually learn something. So each one of my posts take like 45 minutes to an hour to make because sometimes I have the funny part or I have the the broccoli part, but I have to come up with the other part. And so what we started to find in this system was right after you got eyeballs, and as long as you had a good offer, you immediately could just start sharing all of your successes, everything that worked, everything that didn't work, or even how you felt that day, if it was somehow valuable, but not a value post, I suppose.

>> And, uh, the, the engagement went through the roof. And this is what it meant, which might help a lot of people that are here, is one of the reasons we didn't go back and start offering up ads is because at least I was nervous a little bit about the dilution of the quality of the people because they were all coming from School. And those people knew how School worked and were really [ __ ] engaged. And so we have, I don't know, 600 members, something like this. But we're more engaged than groups with 10,000 members, a lot of them. And every time something goes off, like, let's say it's someone struggling with a, I don't know, a heartbreak of some kind, a bunch of community members just swarm on this dude and help him out. And it was that culture, as Sam was talking about, that we somehow stumbled into and realized, "Oh, okay, this is this massive thing. It's not just like, kind of a niche, it's totally a niche."

>> Um, addressing sort of the personability, the things that you might need from a friend. And then that was why people were signing up for everything else. They just wanted to be able to do that and run their business in like a safe space. So, um, there's something to be said, I suppose, about being able to, uh, reach out to the things that don't logically make sense, and that was what we ended up doing there. So, as you said, in conclusion, the discovery ended up being, uh, that backbone where, uh, probably a lot of us should maybe lean on a little bit more. If you can, if you can get that slightly higher, School, the number of people that are coming into School all the time is just rising, and everyone's looking like, if you've got one offer here, you've got another one over there that you can just jump over the same person. It's just a bunch of really high-quality leads and people that are waiting to to jump onto those. I may not have much for you to chew on there. I just.

>> No, that was fine.

>> Much to share.

>> It's the first one we've seen that didn't really use external.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Um.

>> I mean, I know Evelyn, I mean, she obviously did drive outside traffic, but she crushes internally as well because she, she has truly valuable posts.

>> And a lot of her posts, like the difference is, so for everybody at home, uh, I feel like the difference between the value post and the quote value post and a valuable post is that the quote value posts are like, "Here's six things to," no one gives a [ __ ]. Right?

>> Um, the valuable posts are like, "I did work for you, or I took risk for you, or I spent money for you that you don't have to spend." And so fundamentally, it's a bargain on time or money. And so like, everyone's like, "Hey, I spent $25,000 on ads and these are the ads that I ran and this is what happened." And people are like, "Oh [ __ ], well great. I don't have to do that, and this worked." For, like, she gives her TL;DR at the end, and you're like, "That was valuable."

>> Yes. If you can blend, if you can get a blend of that, and then people making like a parody video about the community, like, have you seen the ones people have made for School?

>> Yeah. If you can get a good balance of that, that I would say is like perfection, because you've got the value, but you're also smiling and feel like a part of this group.

>> Yeah.

>> And then you've, they're like, "I can't believe I'm having fun and I'm talking to people that make millions of dollars."

>> If you get those two, it's like.

>> It's experience and results.

>> So on this, on the customer success side, like in normal B2B businesses, we talk about both. It's like, you can get someone results, and there's also client experience, which are just like the soft and the hard. And believe it or not, like, client experience matters sometimes a lot more than even the results does.

>> Um, like, if you have amazing results and a terrible experience, the moment they can find somebody else who can get get them the result, they will leave. But if you have an amazing experience and like mediocre results, they're like, "Well, I love these guys." And they'll stay.

>> Yeah. So one of the, the, the tweaks that we ended up kind of noticing is that we, on School is so great because it's community. We actually don't really have the post as a thing, or what we do, we really turn it back into them. So the community is the community, and we really highlight that versus being like the overlord and be like, "Here's what we give you guys." It's like, no.

>> More, more in the comments, comments, DM. Like.

>> That was the thing that really just gets super fan. Do you guys, I'm assuming you guys engage a lot in your own community, right? And I think that's like, most people could do it. Like, in terms of the people at home, or like, "My community is dead," and it's because you're expecting like the community to do the work. And in the beginning, like, you need to drum it up. Like, you need to engage. You need to be thoughtful about your responses to comments and things like that.

>> There are small things. They're really nuanced. Um, I mean, School understands it really well because it, it uses the platform, but like, if you're making a post and you're not using a poll, you're [ __ ] up. There's something that you can do that just adds a little bit of flavor to what you're doing.

>> Um, there's also like, we were talking about earlier, pinning to module. Like, every little thing that School has, if you, if you're not using it, you're kind of leaving money on the table because there's usually a lot of thought that's gone on behind the scenes for that thing. And I'd even go as far as saying that, you know, we have this free-to-paid system, but probably what's going to start emerging a lot more here is what we did where there was a lot of drop-off where people wanted to hire us from the free, but they didn't have a grand ready to go, or they didn't have their offer ready to shoot. So, they would.

fall to a low ticket, which was just like a white label GSL, GHL. But we ended up inverting it because people were like, "What the hell does this software do?" And you had to go and explain the whole damn thing. Instead, we just sold the mastermind, uh, later on and then gave them this as a gift like, "Hey, and you also have this software." And then it just went through the roof where people just kept signing up. So inevitably, we had free, low ticket, high ticket, and it's just been wonderful having that. And it's just this flywheel where people bounce around within it. And they, of course, that gift of the software, that gives them the incentive to go up because they're like, "I want you to just do this for me now I know it's here." So, so I guess they've got the extra piece on the end of that simple funnel. They've got free, low ticket, and high ticket, which it sounds like that's what everyone eventually wants to achieve from what we've heard at all of these events. But just balancing the the traffic source, the free and the paid first is probably everyone's first step.

You know, I have some comments when when it comes to the posts. It's like you say, "Okay, use polls and all the other tools in school, right?" But from me and Zane's experience before, that doesn't really matter too much because in groups, you got to know who are in it. So you got to do market research. I see a lot of people, they take one post in one community, copy-paste it onto another community thinking they care about it. So like, like you said, like six things that I don't really give a [ __ ] about. You know, you can't copy-paste it. So, you need to do market research. But the the post that I've gotten most likes on and most engagement on is just text. Me being okay, having decent copywriting skills, knowing what people care about. That's the, like, the what's it called? The bread and butter.

We did, if we want to talk about engagement, we did a, I've just spent weeks analyzing this and I, what I found was honestly shocking.

That's a hook. Yeah.

Video ends. Yeah.

So, what's really interesting is classroom content doesn't really matter. Um, first of all, you do not need to make a monster course. In fact, that just overwhelms everyone.

Right?

We have an hour. Our ours is less than an hour, right?

Yeah.

Anime Shreds launch with no classroom. Um, and no post more than one sentence. Some posts were just like six emojis and had thousands of comments. Um, so it's the things that really work, I've seen, and that are very low ef, low effort too, is you, you get your community to share something about themselves, right? So the, the because I've seen these posts that always rip really well, like they get, they get more comments than like a well-thought-out article post by the creator who pinned it. So that's like, you know, um, one that always works is like, "What's your favorite book?" Have you ever seen that one? Just keep popping up in your communities. Even if some random asks it, it just keeps getting comments. And have you seen this? That one because it's just asking members to share something about themselves and then other people are curious. "What's your favorite movie?" If you want, even the most simple one, "What's your favorite gift?"

That one. That one's popular.

That one just guaranteed like more comments than anything else and it's kind of a little bit more fun. It's not too much effort to think about. Um, or this one I found is really good. It's like, um, "Share three things you do. Share something you do for fun, where you're from, and a photo of your workspace."

Right? Because people want to share. And so they're like, "Okay, I'll take a photo of my desk and workspace. I'm from Germany and I like to play golf." Right? That's just sharing themsel. And they do a comment or a post like that. And then everyone looks at the image and they notice other things. They're like, "Oh, you've got this desk." Or, "Oh, you're into guitar. I also play guitar." And now they're making friends. You're connecting the community together.

Like we actually do use that one on the course. And we tell people, if you see someone's introduction post with that, comment a gift as well. And it works amazingly.

And it's like the culture of the gift that they post. Let's say they put a Wolf of Wall Street like gift on their post. Now, everyone will start putting them in.

Yeah. And so these, this I swear is the key to like, because when someone comes in, they're all, you just need a simple way for them to engage. And once they're engaged and if they meet someone, they're like, if now they meet someone, they're on DMs and then that moves to like a hangout in real life or on Zoom. They associate that value back to your group.

Right.

Can I just add something as well?

Hen.

Can I just add something?

Yeah, go for it.

Yeah. So if you want people to engage, you can do like all these like little tricks, or you can just tell them to engage as well. So like, what we've done is we've just like indoctrinated people to engage with each other, essentially, right? Like in a good way though. So we talked about the PR, the mastermind principle from Think and Grow Rich. We explained it to people and said, "This is why you should engage with each other." And then now everyone's just hosting calls with each other, communicating like that kind of thing. So sometimes you just need to tell people. It's the same with the Q&A recordings as well. Just tell people to watch them. Give them a reason, like tell a story that makes them want to watch it, and then they'll watch it. So it just works with anything. It's just sometimes you just have to tell them why they should do it.

Yeah, this is huge. Like especially on the Q&A call, people sometimes have a question like, "Does anybody here know blah blah blah?" And if there's like 30 people and there's 600 in the community, we like, "Have you made a post?" And it's always no. So we like, "Make a post. We'll pin it, maybe, if it's a good one." And like, "Just telling people that they can make a post." They almost feel like they don't have the permission when they join the community. But like, "No, you can make a post. You can ask if somebody here knows this or does that." And just, you know, doing that, especially if something more advanced that you can't really answer in five minutes. I think that's huge.

Yeah, that's that's good for like the regular conversation. I think you need to imagine a blend of like, sometimes you need to share like something you did. Like you need to always pay attention to problems your community has. And you, as the leader, it's your job to like find the best solution. And you can kind of crowdsource it, but sometimes you have to go and explore your own and then you find it and you bring it back and then you share it. You're like, "Hey, we found, we know this is a problem. We did this. We found the solution and here it is." That, that's like good leadership. Then you need, but you need some fun stuff in there for sure. I'm honestly shocked at how much of a difference it makes if you have it. It, I honestly would go as far as saying it's more important than the value. Like, 'cause I've seen seven-figure people join groups that are purely for entertainment, um, but with other seven-figure people. So it's like the value happens as an accident. Um, and members contributing. Like, I think one of the most common problems I've seen is people say, "I've got members in my community. I'm posting five times a day, but no one's commenting." Right? That, have you seen people say that?

Yeah. And it's because the people that have engaged communities aren't posting five times a day. Their members are commenting. It's a difference. And when you write an article this long that's just an opinion piece, what is someone supposed to say?

Like, really? Like, and you're putting a burden on them to read that [ __ ] thing. Like, who wants to read that?

Another follow-up you can do to get more engagement too is, uh, I like to never answer anything in the comments. Always ask questions. So everything gets answered with a question, which follows a thread for every person.

And, and, and you get the research. You get to find out those problems. So you can.

Yeah. Asking a question. It's just that always works so well. It's crazy. Yeah.

I think, um, a really good idea too is if you have something that's like a community review. Like, for example, we have Music Money and a lot of, we tell a lot of the artists to post their new music, post their new beats, and then the community members will review, be like, "Oh, I think you should tweak this. I think you should tweak that." And then we have another community where it's mainly about like content, making good content, and people will post their content or post a link to their content. And it's almost like, I don't know if you guys remember like the engagement groups like back in the day where like they'll post it and everybody goes and comments and likes on their posts on Instagram and that increases a lot more engagement around the community too.

Absolutely. Yeah. And just one more thing to add on to that, like I think people underestimate like how well information travels in the form of a meme, right? Like a meme can communicate like a 45-minute video worth of information to the right person, right? If they're a sponge and can soak the information out of it. So I just think like whenever I see like the videos Ryan posts, right, or like something like that, I'm like, "Oh, that's funny."

Did you see the Fast and Furious one?

I, I was dying, right?

I watched that like 400 times.

Yeah. And so like, I, I think people just underestimate like, "All right, like, you know, like what Goose does is like, you know, he makes it fun to read a post." I think a meme just like sucks your eye in. And so it's like, if you can figure out how to communicate something through a meme, then you're killing it, you know?

Yeah. I just watched this movie last night. It's really good. Dumb Money. Anyone seen it?

It's about the GME GameStop versus the hedge funds. And it's, it's a Wall Street Bets forum. They have a, they had a very good culture, you know. They invented diamond hands and like they were making memes of like the Wall Street Bets head spanking the hedge funds, like, you know, and everyone just felt like they were in this David versus Goliath like thing and they were all part of something. And that's the most powerful thing you can get is when you get that culture there. I think school community in the last month has finally found something. There's like this culture because people are contributing these parody videos. That must have taken them a long time. If you've seen the Harry Potter one.

I made the, I made the Friends one. Took me like four hours.

The Harry Potter one must have taken a dude.

That was intensive.

You've seen the Harry Potter one, right?

Yeah. Yeah. Um, I send them all to Moy, too. But the, the power, like referencing that Dumb Money bunny thing. That guy just tweeted out a picture just the other day of a game of a dude leaning up to play games and GameStop, uh, GameStop stock shot up again from dude just tweeting a picture, right? Just to like, no, no, no words attached, nothing. People are like, "Oh, it's back on. I need to, you know, buy into this GameStop." And so that's what the power of a.

Kitty guy posted that.

Yeah. Yeah. He just.

You got to watch this movie. Write it down. Dumb Money. Not only is it an amazing movie just for straight entertainment, but this guy who led that GameStop thing is probably one of the best community leaders we've ever seen on the internet cuz he bought down some hedge funds.

Yeah.

And up front with with memes. Nothing but memes.

Yeah. And he wasn't, he wasn't promising the world to people either at first. He wasn't telling people GameStop was going to go up 100x. He was saying, "This is going to go up four or five X." And I feel like that's another thing people can do is not overpromise. Whenever, and then people are like, "Yes, I believe it can do what you're saying it's going to do." And then everybody believes in it. And then, you know.

Yeah.

Yeah. That, that is perfect. Exactly what happened in that movie. And that's what we're starting to see happen in school. Like people are making these parody videos and then people laugh and then we started seeing people posting like, "This is the most positive place I've ever seen on the internet." Like that's pretty powerful. So people want to go where the energy is good, right? Like if you scroll your Instagram and you feel bad, and you go to Facebook, bad, Twitter, World War something. Then you go, like, you know, you go to school and there's some funny videos and someone making a million dollars. That is the ultimate, right? Like people winning and people laughing.

Yeah.

We've seen two outstanding ways that you can drive culture, especially if you're like trying to pivot. One of them's categories. It's super passive. This, like the thing that's right above your feed where you can sort of, when someone comes in, they get a pretty good idea. This, this is actually Sam's idea. Um, they get a good idea of what the place is for. So even if you don't actively use them, it's just kind of a good foundation. We've got a lot of good feedback back from that. Even though I hated them at first, they're super useful in like a level one sort of way. And this, then the more important one is your pin post. Does anyone rotate their post?

Actually, I learned this [ __ ] from you.

Did you? All right, cool. That was the first thing I ever saw. Who's this dude with long hair? And I clicked your post and he's like, "Rotate two pin posts a day." I, I do that with myself and I do that with, uh, with Justin as well.

Rotating pin post. It's overpowered, actually.

And so how long until you saw results?

Immediately. Immediately. Yeah. You rotate pin post and, and you, my my favorite thing is when you see people typing like right away. Everyone's like, "Oh, what are they typing about?"

Yeah. So what we, what we did with them is exactly this. Uh, the pin post, when you first start a community, your first, uh, thought is, "Oh, I need to start here so that everyone new knows exactly where to go." Which actually kind of [ __ ] you after a little while because the people that are coming back seem the sh, see the same [ __ ] every single time they come back. And so you kind of want to speak to them more. So you post the pin of the "start here" post in a classroom module or, you know, whatever you need in the "start here" classroom. And then the pin posts are just the stuff that's going on day-to-day. You got a crazy idea, or if you can't post that day, you take one of your community members and you post them up there, and they're [ __ ] jazzed to be pinned.

Oh yeah, that, once if you pin your members' stuff, that's key. I think you should always aim to have at least one or two. The ultimate is all of the pin posts from other people that aren't you. It just shows the community that if they, they, it is possible for them to make something that you're willing to pin at the top. And then it, it's like creating this incentive for people to do that. Um, the other thing I would say is you should always be just sensing and on the lookout for who are the most valuable contributors are in your group or in your community. So, like, you know, when Goose, when Goose kind of started to take off, I sent him a DM and I said, "Now that you've proven yourself school hardcore, like, what do you think of this upcoming feature?" Right? So I started to bring him in and give him like access, way more access to me. And, and then, you know, he's been at the office all week helping design screens for the next three months.

That's great.

So, I mean, Ted Carr, who's hosting a school meetup right now in LA with 100 people, um, he has a key to our office. So he can just, he and the alarm pin code, he can just walk up whenever he wants. And we just talk about sensitive things in front of him. It's like he's a member of our team. But what I'm trying to say here is when you see those people, you need to reward them because all a group needs to keep it engaged even when it's big is 10 true regulars. People like. It's like a sitcom, right? Like how many people watch Friends? But it's just like five people, right? But it's those people that get everyone else to come because they like the vibe and they like it. So, you know, we've got people like Ted, we've got people like Goose. Um, there's Max Pen, there's Evelyn, right? All of them contribute a different piece. This Ryan guy with GIF is adding a new kind of flavor. Kirby was adding something, now he's on the team. Matthew was adding something, now he's in charge of our podcast. And so, and there's a lot more people, but you've got to find those. When you do see those people, you need to like do something to make them feel like they've, they're a part of the leadership in a way of of the community.

What I did is I hired one of the best guys to do a weekly call. So, I just pay him $100 and he does one of the weekly calls. So, he's like a professional software engineer and he just helps with like the technical questions. So, he was already posting a bunch, but I asked him, "Hey, do you want this?" Because he already was attending every single call, so might as well get, you know, $100 for it. And literally for $400 a month, I get like a professional software developer that just hosts a weekly call in my community.

Yeah. This is how you find your team, by the way. Like, honestly, everyone we've hired that's on the non-software engineering side is from school users. Like when someone applies, I look, I'm like, "Where's their link?" Can I look at their activity chart? And I'm like, "This person doesn't use school." Like, why? If they don't care about school, I don't want to hire them. So, like, if someone literally cares about your community and is contributing without getting paid, then they're going to obviously believe in what you're doing, right?

When this is changing topics from, um, engagement, which I don't know if we should do yet, but that is how you find great people.

Yeah. I want to hit on one thing with engagement. So we, we've tossed around the word culture and we haven't defined the word culture. And so I'll just share mine that might be helpful, which is the rules that govern reward and punishment in an organization. And so if you think like we have either spoken rules or unspoken rules, but there are rules of how you act. And so if you're with your buddies, if you say, "Hey, I got my girlfriend flowers." They just might all of a sudden say like, "Oh, you like sucking dick, too." You know, like you're like, "Okay, that's the rule. That's a rule of behavior, right? Like if you do something that's nice for your wife or girlfriend, you're going to get made fun of." Um, but it's because they like you, right? And so, but like if you said that to your parents or your, you know, whatever at the dinner table, they would be like, "Oh, that's really sweet or that's really nice of you, right?" And so, it's different rules. So, there's a different culture at the family dinner table than there is when you're out with your buddies. And so, fundamentally, trying to define what are the rules that govern what gets rewarded and what gets punished within my community will dictate what the quote culture is within it. And so just kind of thinking about that in terms of those terms will probably make it a lot easier. And so to your point, Goose, I actually think this is, uh, the categories piece that you're saying, really, really important. And the main reason I say that is because like if people are about to make a post, when you see what the categories are, this signals or this tells them, "This is what we want you to post about." And so this is like, this is an innate rule to this community. Like, we want you to post about wins, we want you to post about traffic, we want you post about monetization, we want you post about whatever. So it might be like, you might have like gifts. They'll have, imagine the community, like same identical community, uh, internet marketing, just something completely generic. And the categories in one are gifts, memes, right? Like something that makes money or like money-making, uh, wins, and, uh, just for kicks. And so, like, that is one community. And the other one is, um, conversion rate, value post, uh, question, whatever, right? And so when you see the two of those, like, you have a very different feel for those communities before you even engage. And so like, right off the bat, that's the, that's the banner, literally, that the subcategory of all the topics that are going to get discussed. And so like, if you want to shift the conversation that's going to happen within the culture of you or within the within the community that you have, telling them what you want them to talk about with the categories feels like one of the most important things that you can do to do that. And you also, by by very nature of having those topics, means these are what we reward.

Yeah. And what we actually did is, um, we like gamified the categories as well. So when it's like, I think Sam did it with like Sony.com, is he made people like ring the bell? So we got like a clip from a game like GTA V where Trevor says, "Show me the money." And every time someone gets a win, they post that. But rather than calling it a wins category, put "Haha, show me the money." And every time they got a win, they'd post it. And it would just make it way more responsive. Everyone would come, "Haha, show me the money." Every time someone gets a win, and it just goes insane.

Yeah. And you can have it be wins, or you could have it some be funny. The way you have it, it still accomplishes the same thing, but one of them is like, I'm, I'm more inclined to post this if I don't feel like I'm flexing. You know what I mean? Um, so yeah, I, I think this was like a, I like double star that personally. And then I think that the pinning your members feels very important. Like think about like what's, that's like a jackpot reward. Like this is what we reward in general. And if you pin, pin certain posts, then that's a super reward. This is like, let me, let me put this guy on the, on lit, a literal pedestal and tell everyone in my community, this is what I want you to do. This is me doing a big reward for somebody who does this. And so it orients the behavior of everyone in the community.

And then I would say what I do is like pinning is probably the first.

Or saying, "This is a great post." Or "This is amazing." Right? That's key. Like.

You see me do this. I do it all the time. Yeah. Tell people. Then pinning them, but also sending them a DM. And then the only people I DM are the people that are like the most school hardcore, basically. And like, I talk to them all the time. And then the next level of hardcore is, every now and then we'll be on Zoom. And then the next level is, they'll be at the office, right? It's literally what I do. Not by design or deliberately, this is just how it happened. But bring those people closer and give them more. Because by the way, they also give me the best feedback. They're they're helping design school literally. Um, and you can use them to help you shape the future of this, of the thing you're building. And when the community, when a new member comes in and they see that you're really tight with members like that, they're going to be like, "Oh [ __ ], if I can get my way up there, I can have that too." Do you get what I'm saying? If you, if you do this, it'll work. It'll work really well. And it's not exhausting at all. It is the least exhausting business I've ever run because I don't have to talk to anyone. Like everyone, there's no, I'm never promising that. I only talk to the people who I think, who I want to talk to. Really? Yeah.

There was a point a few days ago, the school games community was really dead. No one was posting. I said, "Fuck, I'm going to get fired."

All I did was I added a category called banter and I messaged Ryan, who's the gift guy, who's top of the school community, and I said, "Made this for you." And immediately he made a post. There was 300 comments in like two hours from one post. And also on the reward punishment thing, whenever Evelyn posts, every single time she posts, our comment, "Evelyn overdelivers again," just to like reinforce the good behavior. And the DMs, I probably send 10 a day. If there's ever a good comment, I DM and I'm like, "This was a great comment. That was a great post." And then bad behavior. If someone posts bad stuff, don't like it. Message them and say, "Here's our rules. Here's what a bad post looks like." Reward good.

Here's what a bad post looks like. Your post.

[Music]

See.

I got a quick, uh, a quick tactic that's been like working wonders for our culture.

Sure.

Um, I have all my guys when they join, put like in their bio in school, I put like a 15-minute calendar link. And then I'm like always referencing it. So, I'm like, I'm mentioning like, "Hey guys, like book the 15s." I put it on my roadmap. I have like a little roadmap like, "Book three 15s with these guys." And I'm doing all the closing right now. So, like, I'll like go on my live calls and I'll notice that two guys who are across the country from each other have so much in common. And I like reach out to them like, "Yo, you should book a guy with, I feel like you should book a call with this guy because of why XYZ." And then I follow up with that later like, "How'd that call go?" And then I get a ton of like insight on like all my members and like what they're communicating outside of me because like there's like a little like like a power dynamic where like I'm the, I'm the head coach, I'm the, the CEO guy, right? So I don't get like a lot of like vulnerability, but I can get the insight from my community members through each other. And the concept actually came from when I was a frat president because we would have our top 10 exec guys go on constant 15-minute lunch breaks with all the new members. And then that's how we collected mass information and connected guys, like pledges together before the recruitment process so that they would have friends before they even joined the thing. And so like the result of that is like I have like buddies like flying down to like Dallas to meet gladiators who I didn't even like, like they're doing on their own now because the reward is so high, they're getting like brothers.

So I'm going to, I want to say it back to you. So the users in the community, you tell them to put like a calendar link for 15 minutes. So, and then whenever you see people that you think makes sense and they already, it becomes an innate rule of the community, which is like, "Hey, if you like someone, just like click their link and book a call." They might just segment out, you know, one part of their calendar where they have, you know, opening to just banter or whatever. Maybe they do it for their lunch breaks and they meet new people every day, whatever it is.

I tell them like, I do, I do like an hour for three days a week that's just open.

Yeah.

Uh, and it crushes.

So, a lot of people do use that.

Almost. Yeah. So, I tested it with like five or six guys and they all, they all loved it and so I'm, I'm making it mandatory for everybody now.

Who's using the map? Are you using the map?

The map.

It's not a school feature. Um, this, this, are you using it?

We have members meeting up constantly in person that they've met through Music Money and doing like studio sessions and stuff. And that's honestly like, like you guys said, like they, they equate that their connection to being a part of Music Money. And so I feel like they've, you know, people have, I just saw the school games not pop up, but they just, people just share their location. Who's in Atlanta? Who's in, who's in Detroit? You know.

It was interesting. I was in, I'm in Ham's group and he did a post like, "What's the most valuable part of the community?" And he's trying to remove some stuff and emphasize some stuff.

And what could we, what's one simple thing we could do to improve it? I was the most common answer was, "Get more people to plot their location on the map."

I was like, what?

We, we actually took that idea just a little bit further. We're not sure if it'll work yet, but it's incredibly popular. It's been our most popular piece so far, which was setting up a system that the community could engage on so that it continued that flywheel sort of perpetually. And what we're calling it, it's, uh, it's based off the school games and we're just calling it Rainbow Games. And we just have a pile of things at the end that you can win. And the structure is, uh, you'll be assigned teams between three to five. You have one team captain. They, uh, coordinate with our community manager. And the objective is to compete based off of three metrics. Where they are on the leaderboard from, um, and the, these are all based on a 30-day time span. So it'll basically be one to one with school games where where they are on the leaderboard. Um, what their own personal, uh, score is on how much they've grown in their own relationships and health. And then the last one is how good their offer is based off of where they started from before. So we're using those three different metrics. People were super jazzed about it and we had, uh, I think like 30 signups to do this thing that we'll probably do this next week. And we don't know all the little intricate details, but I think there's a massive opportunity there. Whereas previously, like when you're starting and probably most of us have run into this, you really want to get a few community managers to like lift up from the bottom and help comment and stir up conversation. But at a certain point, when it's feeding itself, you can sort of just give that momentum by doing top down where they are in teams or some form of competition and reporting to the community manager. So now the manager is doing less time, but having more impact.

Yeah. And the more you reward the top members versus trying to dig up the bottom members, those top members dig up bottom members.

So it actually is less, it's like your model.

Yeah.

And it could be something super stupid. We, the biggest request that we've had recently is, I, I designed a few profile pictures because they wanted more color in their thing. So I was like, "All right, if you're on the leaderboard, I'll go ahead and do it." And now it's one of the things that we offer in there because people really want it.

And it's silly. And it's.

Didn't you guys design a whole suite of gifts for school?

Yeah.

Forgot about that. Yeah. Uh, Sid said he was going to implement them to.

That'd be a sweet like level six unlock. Like if you get to level six, I'll make your profile thing for you.

Yeah. Yeah, we were thinking about someone.

Yeah, I think that'd be kind of sweet. So, I just drew this on here because I think it's a really simple visual in terms of like the difference between like this is just how I would explain it. It's like each one of these people on the right, this is the traditional way that most people are doing it, which is that they try and become more and more interesting themselves.

Model.

That's literally guru model.

Yeah, this, yeah, here, I'll just write it. Guru model doesn't work well for community, by the way. If you just post, it doesn't work. And if everyone wants to talk to you, you're going to be exhausted.

Yeah.

And so, think about this. So, like this is what it looks like visually. And with your eyes, you can almost immediately see the difference. But the point that I would highlight is look how many tie-ins these people have to the community versus those people. Those people only have one tie. And so, likely like if this, if this breaks, right? This breaks, this guy leaves, right? He gets out. But if all of a sudden this breaks, right? He, you know, stops talking to that guy, he's still, he's not going anywhere, right? Or this breaks, like nothing happens. And so I think a lot of the things that we're talking about here are trying to get to this, which is like we're talking about the maps, we're talking about the 15-minute thing, we're talking about encouraging the engagement between them. Like the whole point of all this stuff is to facilitate that. Like why do we want them to share things about themselves or take a picture of their car, take a picture of their workspace, or or share themselves on the map? It's because then they can start orienting themselves with one another. Like that's, that's how they connect with each other because they can find similar things. And so it's like, how can we create a space that rewards them sharing things that they can find similarities because fundamentally they have a shared interest. But until they know the rules of engagement, they're just going to be like, "Okay, well, I don't want to get punished for doing something." And so by having the categories, by pinning exactly what you want people to do, by DMing those people afterwards, like those are all things that then encourage more and more of this, which then creates this. And then this, I'm actually really pumped that this is the direction that the the conversation went in because in a past, you know, uh, probably one or two ago, we went really deep on retention, right? And so there's lots of like, what I would consider like the hard side science stuff of retaining the community. And I'm glad that Goose, you're here for like to basically have this the other side of the conversation of retention in the community, which is the whole experience, right? And what are the rules of how this community works and what do we reward and what do we punish? And I think like, I'll bet that the people watching this and probably you guys too, you might be able to cut your churn even more by doing this stuff. Somebody had a hand. Yeah. Shoot.

Yeah. I have two kind of questions. How do, because I, I resonate with this a lot. Um, how do you go from guru? Like once you already are operating on the right side, how then would you go to the left?

You don't decrease, you increase them.

That's good. Yeah. Okay, that answers that. The second one is for real. It did. Uh, okay. How do you sell? Because I think a lot of the conversation is pre-framing. So I used to work for a lady, uh, she had 4,500 members and then what she would tell them is, "If you cancel, you can never come back for a year." Which was awesome because people would never leave. Like it decreased churn. And then the second thing was they would have requirements like for them to do, um, like, what, what are your thoughts on that?

I've seen the, the "you can't come back" thing have zero effect in some businesses because they're like, "Yeah, I never want to come back anyway. I don't really care." Um, and so like, it's like it's kind of one of those chicken egg things where like, if you have a valuable community, then people fear losing it and so then they don't want to cancel. But at the same time, if you have a valuable community, then you've already won and so it doesn't matter.

Okay. Just one more point on that question.

Would you sell an outcome different than you would sell a community?

Um.

Because I wish I could just sell a community.

Yeah.

Right.

People have a hard time ascribing value to community. I mean, like in the gym world, we used to say, "Sell the bikini. They come for the bikini, they stay for the the community." Um, and like the way that you, you have the offer in terms of the outcome that they're going to have is going to be the thing that's going to bring them in, right? But then all of this is the stuff that's going to get them to stay. And so I would say there's different objectives. Like to get someone to convert, you talk about the outcome. To get them some to stay, they're going to like you, you want to reward as many times as you can with that community. And basically, it's too arduous for one business owner to reward every single person as many times as they possibly can to get someone to stick. And it's so much easier to create the system that allows the culture that allows people to reward each other at a way higher frequency than you ever could as a guru.

Cool. And I really want to like, what's the word? Emphasize like the leverage here on this left side. Like if you have a lot of client knowledge, you can connect guys and it will exponentially increase your leverage on how valuable your community is. Like, for example, like like Justin right here, like you should network. I think you should network with, um, other Justin over there and maybe Pablo because you guys both have like this commercial construction experience, right? Like I don't know anything about commercial construction because I know like one detail about that. You guys can get like a quick 15 and then you'll like associate that connection with like the value of my community and that connection and build goal like that. So, like I can like almost like increase my leverage into like that construction space, for example, even though I don't know much about it, but it'll add so much value to the community as a whole and it make you guys level up too. So, it's like a win-win.

Yeah, this is huge. I actually sold a few people that way. Somebody asked me like if I have something on sales AI agents and I didn't. So I searched up school and it loaded up a few members that specialized in this. So I was like, "If you join today, I'll connect you to XYZ who is doing exactly this." And they join for that and then I connect them.

You about it's great.

It's resourceful.

No, it's good. It's good. I feel like this is the visual. Like I feel like this is the, the main difference. Like this is what all the tactics that we were talking about earlier. This is the end result of good culture, of good rules that govern reward and punishment within an organization. Go for it.

Yeah. Something I want to add as well is like, it's kind of like on the mindset, leadership side, is like what happens is when community members start getting known, like the leaders of the community kind of get jealous and they like to remove them or like they punish them. So you need to work on your internal side as well and be comfortable with people leading your community as well for you. Does that make sense?

Like we have, yeah, we have champions side of the school. I mean, good, like all the, all the names that Sam referenced earlier, like you bring the people closer to you who you want to encourage and create distance for the ones who you don't want.

Yeah. I literally never even think about that. Like, we're building you guys up, literally. Like we're trying to give you guys the fame. And then the more we do that, the better the the community is. So like, I, I know what you're saying though. I had this realization all of a sudden. But yeah, the PE, if you have that mindset, you'll never have a good community because the moment there's someone that has anything good to say, you're going to like kick them out.

Yeah, exactly. I'm not saying I have it. I'm saying don't have it. It's kind of natural with humans, you know what I mean?

Kind of get jealous of each other.

You've got to be mindful of things that might be not what they don't align with your vision for the community. Like, "Oh, everyone, this thing is just way too complicated, and I think this is a dumb idea." Even if people like it, I, I'm not a fan of this. It's not for a personal reason. I just, it doesn't align with the vision of of the thing. So, you, you can't let it just go out of control. You have to shape it a little bit. Um, but that comes in who you reward and who, who you pull closer. And yeah.

I mean, when we, we talked about this before, even thinking like when we were coming up with the idea of the school games overall, was we wanted to have as many like school games champs, like it's the games, like we want school games champions. Like that was the whole, the whole point was to elevate it because I already have the clout, you know what I mean? It's like our whole goal was to like get as many other people. So we have lots because think about it this way is like you want to have as many different walks of life and like avatars within in the community that represent success. Like within obviously within, you know, the wider the box, the more buried the community, the the champions can be. But like, I would love to, like this isn't planned, this just happens organically, but it's like, I'm glad that Evelyn is a girl who's, you know, really, really awesome inside of the community. And there's also black guys and white guys and older guys and young, like we had the grandmother who hit, you know, a million bucks. Like it shows that like anybody can do it. You obviously we're super, super broad in terms of what we're looking at. But even within the subsegment of whatever niche you're going after, you're going to have different psychographics, different demographics that can be represented. And that's that only increases the amount of pe, like this guy, or this, let's call this a lady, right? These might be lady people, right? And then this might be a dude, right? And these might be dude people. But if this person can't find connection, then there's no, no ties, and then she leaves.

Right. So having different people that represent even kind of slightly different flavors, like chocolate and caramel, chocolate and coffee, like it's like you have, you have chocolate as your community, but it's like different type, different flavor, subflavors of chocolate.

Yeah, we can definitely see those circles in school community. Like the ads people.

Yeah.

The like people. And there's the creators, guys. All the like.

The YouTubers, right?

Then there's the, there's definitely the girls. And there's definitely, I call them the Chads. Like we call, we joke around at.

That about that like, oh, that's the Chad network. Um, and then there's the like, the boomers, like, for sure. And by the way, that's a massive population, bigger than any other generation. The largest business that we have in the portfolio crushes with boomers. It's the largest in the world. Was that? It's the largest generation in the world with the most money, with the both N and spending power. Like, you have both, like, sell to them. Um, and yeah, you can start to see these different things. It makes the culture more interesting.

Then I'd say the goose and GIF people. Like, I honestly, for a period, we were seeing posts like, "How do I, how to goose the instructions?" And like, did you guys see all of these goose posts? It was like, goose was taking over at one point. And then when Ryan came in with GIF, I'm not [ __ ] you, the amount of our GIF usage on across our platform spiked so much that Gy called us and said we needed to discuss a paid enterprise plan, and now we have to pay them a grand a month because we're using 500 terabytes a month. It's a testament to culture. It. Yeah. And it's like, but then everyone saw that and they were like, "Oh, I can use gifts in my community. I can use polls. I can be more like Goose." And they're learning these different elements that they can play with. Yeah. In their community. Yeah.

The other one I would say is calls. Calls is getting getting some the moment you take someone from just an avatar and some text to being on Zoom. It's like, now you've got a voice, now you can see your face, now there's some expressions, and it's more depth. Um, so if you're not doing calls, this is, I'm sure everyone here is doing calls, but I bet you there's people at home that are thinking they need to make a lot of classroom content. No, I swear, all you need to do is have three posts that like, introduce yourself and share a photo of your workspace, what's your favorite book, what's your favorite movie, what's your favorite GIF. That's four posts, that easy. And then one call on the calendar that could be just called coffee hour, and there's no agenda. You just hang out on Zoom while you have your morning coffee. Maybe once a week, three times a week, whatever. Done. Then let it happen first, right? And then you can figure out, okay, I'm going to make this little module because this is what then you can start serving your community. But it has to be there before you know what they want, right? And then you start serving and you keep adding things and curating, and then it's more valuable. So now maybe you charge, and now maybe you increase the price over time. And do you see what I'm saying? Like, that's all you need to start. We're actually going to hide the classroom tab when you create a new community.

Well, we looked at retention. Making a course has no correlation to retaining as a customer. In fact, it's one of the reasons why people turn, right? Because they say, "I don't have a camera, right? I don't have a lighting setup, and I will come back when I've made my content." Yeah. No [ __ ]. So it is, and it has no correlation with retention. So we're like, okay, let's just hide that tab and let's just get encourage people to make a calendar and do three simple posts and then bring people in. Down. Now the engagement's happening. And then you learn. You don't have to write article posts. You don't need to. This isn't Substack. Like, you don't have to sit down and like invent these articles all the time. You're not a writer. You're you're bringing people together. It's it's a there's a difference there, but it's very hard for people to grasp for some reason.

There was something that that you were mentioning before about, um, I, I'll take it to to take it one step further. It it's come up once, but a lot of times the offer that you have, now this isn't for everybody, but it's quite easy for an offer to be hard to to sell. Um, and the person that needs it can't recognize it when they see it. But fundamentally, you can kind of always understand something like a mastermind or a coffee hour. And so if you sell that and you give them what they need, you almost always score. Like, I think we have like 98% retention for across all of them, just because we reversed everything so that we're we bring them in on what they want, but we give them what they need. And it work, it just works every time. And it's something that maybe you guys could could also run with, because it's, uh, I mean, it's, it's a showstopper for sure.

And by that, you mean they come in for the funnels, they stay for the fun? No, they come in for the mastermind, they stay for the funnels. All right. Bits stickier. Yeah. We started the other way. Yeah. Just worked better. The the fun is just kind of like a cherry on top. Like, it it's, it's sort of, I mean, you'll see it in kind of like the Captivate branding. I, I literally analyzed every little [ __ ] pixel and I was like, "How can I get more attention from one glance?" And so it was colors, it was, um, bizarness, it was cussing, whatever it had to be. It was just like, just be whatever came naturally, not like forcefully. And then from that point, the fun was like a nice introduction and a good tone, a good cultural tone, but everything else was just, yeah, trying to situate. And that was where our big roadblock was. And when we reversed that, like almost on accident, it completely changed everything else.

Yeah. How many people here are teaching someone how to make money or do something to do with business? What I think you'll find fascinating is that most people don't want to start a business. Like, really. I learned this after talking to big YouTubers. They're like, "Oh, but now that's a business." And I was like, "Yeah." And they were like, "I don't want that." So, like, most people don't want a business. What they really want is they want to like feel good and have fun. That explains the whole world. How many pe how many people are at the [ __ ] library versus playing computer games or like, you know, watch it watching movies or like going to bars, right? Like, how much money gets spent on like going to bars and video games and everything versus everything else? Um, it's it just that shows you that's what people want more than anything. But I think once you become an entrepreneur, it's even harder to see. Once you become a hardcore entrepreneur, is you think everyone's kind of like you. But most, I can tell you, most people aren't. And no one is. Yeah. Like, I mean, 9% of people have a business and that like that means literally like own an LLC. So that includes like hair stylists who are solopreneurs. So 9%. So if you cut out solopreneurs and then just go people who have employees, you're looking at like one out of every, I, I don't know what the stat is, but I would imagine it's probably one out of every 50 people actually has a a business with employees. Like, it's not a lot of people.

This is why I think the fun element is really important because I've seen a lot of people say this. They were like, "I never wanted to start a business or be an entrepreneur until I knew it could be fun, right?" Like, it's, I think that's how you make the market bigger for sure. Like, if you want to get more people people to buy your thing and all of that, I think a lot of it comes from not just more training or more like explaining or more like logical concepts and frameworks. I think it's trying to make it more fun and interesting to people. Does that make sense? Yeah. That's why I was excited about these recent breakthroughs that we've had because it's it directly translates to the actual thing you want, which is retention, sales, word of mouth, by the way, like all of the things that we dream of. But it it comes from tapping into this slightly different thing.

I love that we hit classroom. Yeah. I think it's a great idea. Yeah. So, do we feel pretty good on retention? We have, uh, we we would like to talk about ours as well. Like, it a little bit different than what everybody else does. Yeah. Yeah. So, basically, we we have two different funnels. Our first funnel is is the more affiliate side, and then, um, the second funnel that we have usually comes from like the main accounts that we're promoting. Um, so I'll just start with the affiliate funnel.

Okay. So the first thing that we do is we do, uh, podcast collaborations around the world, which is mainly through YouTube. Um, once we do the the podcast, we have a team organizer that takes the clips and spreads like all the clips. Uh, once once he takes all the clips, he takes the clips, puts them in the spreadsheet, and then spreads it over to like thousands of affiliates, and with those affiliates, uh, it's spread to our Discord, uh, channel, and then, um, as well as our like Telegram.

How are those affiliates compensated? Uh, through a percentage. Okay. So, of the school community revenue. Yeah. Yeah. So they receive, uh, 30%. Okay. 30%. Yeah. One time. So that's, uh, $29 for for us. Cool. So once that happens, um, affiliates, uh, create two short videos a day plus one email a day for every social media platform, which includes Instagram, YouTube, Telegram, email list, um, TikTok, pretty much everywhere. And then next thing that they do is, let's see. Yeah, they do, uh, two to three times a week, they do a promo. Uh, within the promo, it's usually like videos and then as well as like email copy, and then after that, we drive them to DMs, live chats, Telegram, and then that's that's where they close. So that's my favorite model that we personally do.

Okay. So I will try and draw that. Um, so you create content, right? And then you guys clip it, correct? Yep. Okay. And then you distribute it to the affiliate base. Yeah. Do they just have access to like Google Drive or something? Yes. Okay. So, the affiliate base, and then those guys distributed across all their social accounts or whatever. They have so like fan accounts. I'll put it that way. Is that correct? Yep. Okay. Yeah. Fan accounts. Fan accounts. This model. Yeah. Okay. So, fan accounts, and then those fan accounts have link in bio modified. Yes. Okay. Link in bio. Got it. All right. And then that's what drives into school. Cool. The techn, yeah. Sometimes they they go over to a Telegram, and from the Telegram, they get closed, or they go, Oh, yeah. What was the Telegram? So, it's like they go from the link to the bio to the Telegram, or link to the bio to, um, to like a live chat. So, it's like either or. So, either they'll go direct, or they'll DM, or they'll go Telegram. Yes. Okay, got it. And then these two go to here. Yep. Okay, cool. Yeah, that works.

We could probably make your life a lot easier if affiliates, right? Yeah, a lot a lot easier. Just just wait. Yeah. It's going to be sweet. We like rigged up this like system with like Post Affiliate Pro, where we, uh, we just create our own affiliate links, and they just go to our page basically. Yeah. And they do one time rather than, Oh, they only want to do it once. Yeah, they do one time upfront.

I got a question. Do you How do you guys like, Do you let anybody do it? Just out of curiosity, is there like any, uh, KPIs for somebody coming in wanting to be an affiliate? So, the way that we do it is we do an Instagram story, um, just laying out that we're hiring. We drive them to a Typeform, and through the Typeform, they enter in like what their affiliate accounts are, like what their experience is, how old are they, and we just go through a manual hiring process. Well, so you, it's not anyone can, Not everyone. Why not? Uh, it's just we're we're trying to go for a specific type of person. Um, since a lot of people, I'd say like six or seven percent only qualify. But is it because it's a burden to to operate? Yeah. Yeah. So if it wasn't a burden, would you just open it up? Yeah. That's that's actually something that we're developing right now, is just creating like a whole course, putting them through the course, and then just filtering them through that. That's that's something that's almost done for us. But it's a constant argument of mine. I'm like, hire them all. Your jour will find out who's good. But they always kick back with, Yeah, but then we have to manage them all, and half of them [ __ ]. Their point is valid because managing this [ __ ] is like out of control complicated. If you had 10,000 of them, like, jeez. Yeah. And a lot of them aren't like, so for my for my book launch, we had, um, 37,000 affiliates. So people who promoted the launch. But like, if I just had the top hundred, I would have 97% of all the traffic. Pick the problems. You just don't know which one are the top hundred when you start. That's my point. Like, we're not even having an opportunity to find out who that person is. I mean, that's past Paro's problem. Yeah.

Well, I think the the smart move that you guys did is that you create the content, you clip it, and then send it because when they basically have free reign, they can, I mean, they can still do this, but like slice together things out of context and then basically make you look really bad from a brand perspective. It's the reason I haven't done it. I just, I I care a lot about, Yeah, by the way, when you change the friction to being an affiliate, the distribution changes because on school, it's very low friction to be an affiliate, right? Anyone just copies their link. So our distribution is extreme long tail. Yeah. It's not there is 80% is skewed to the person who invites two people. No [ __ ]. Yeah. So when you change the, Absolute volume. Yes. In actual like affiliates, most of the volume comes from the small affiliate, the person that refers two or three friends. Because in, and I mean, for those you guys who remember the book launch, I was like, invite invite 10 people and I'll give you like two or three extra chapters from the book, um, as a as a as a bonus, and a lot of people did that. Like, a lot of people did that because they wanted to get the extra chapters. Um, I just, I just think like, I had enough mega business owners who had massive lists, they still, Yeah, I mean, I had guys sending 10,000 plus people to like, the top guy did 10, the next guy did like seven, you know what I mean? Thousand people to the, Yeah, maybe you're, We haven't had, I guess you're the first big one, and I didn't factor you into that distribution. But, but, Um, I outdo the all the rest of school probably. Yeah. Like, it changed the distribution for sure. For sure. Um, Yes, it's thick, but you're not a normal affiliate. So, it's like it's a little bit different. But I do think there's something to be said for lowering the friction because most people, they see that they've got to sign up and provide all this info, and they just, they're like, "Oh, [ __ ] it. It's too hard."

So, I talk, so, um, I talked to, so Tony and Dean are are friends, um, and, um, they, they, they've done a lot of really big launches. Now, mind you, some of you guys aren't launching anything, but I think there's still relevant data there. Um, which is that the first ever big launch that they did, they pushed really hard on affiliates. The next year, they did it again, and the affiliates didn't produce as much, and they made up the difference. And the third time, um, Dean was like, "I'm just going to invite the the top hundred guys." And then, and so, and I've also seen that with another big name that I won't mention. And so, I, it may depend on on the on the nature of the business and also again, the size, like, cuz one one Logan Paul will shift your whole thing, and it doesn't really matter. And so, I do think power law exists, um, over overarchingly. And so this, I think this actually dovetails really well into what you guys were asking about when it comes to the, um, the mega versus many. And so when I think about, I think I think Allen, my software company, was built off of, uh, many affiliates. Was anybody here a customer of Allen? No. Okay. Um, I almost always have one. Uh, the Prestige Labs company was all built off many affiliates. So, many micro affiliates. Um, and so I'm in no way against the model. Like, I, I like, because on the flip side is that when you have a decentralized affiliate base, there's no key man risk. So if one guy goes away, it doesn't affect anything, right? On the other hand, um, seeing the power that a very strong brand with huge reach and huge influence can bring, it's also way simpler. It's like Sam and I talk, right? It's a lot a lot more concentrated. And I think, um, as as I, as I, you know, invest in companies now, I look, is there a, who's who's the Michael Jordan? Have you guys seen Air? Like where, Yeah, really, really great movie. And it's like, it's like, who, who's your Michael Jordan, um, is, uh, is a really great question to ask for who that one mega influencer can be, because sometimes if you have the right guy, that does disproportionately skew everything in your favor. Um, but I think you just have to to decide which, I mean, you can obviously do both. School does both, right? Um, but in terms of an order of operations piece for speed, mega first obviously helps. But if you're starting out and you go mega first, you're going to have to give up the vast majority of the economics because they're the ones bringing, you know, they have all the leverage. Now, in terms of the question you guys were asking, which is, um, how do I, like it was the B Z build a community brand over one personal brand having all the power. Yeah. So the only way that the the actual brand, like why Nike is bigger than all of the athletes, is because they have all whale mega influencers, but there's just so many of them that Nike is bigger than any of them, right? And so the way that the brand can still basically, if you're starting out, whoever the influencer is, is going to be bigger than the company. That's why you made the deal, right? And so the only way for your the brand of the business to supersede that of the individual is that you have the rest of everything else in aggregate. And this is the goal. Like our hope is that school gets way bigger than me, right? Um, and so that eventually it becomes bigger than any individual person on the platform. But if all of the traffic comes from one person, then it's always going to be a subset superet relationship. You're going to be converting a percentage of this audience. And so you have to have other audiences that are building up the brand overall, such that the bigger that brand. It's not like you obviously want to be deliberate about it, but it will just like it will happen if you bring in more and more people.

Sure. How would how would you structure that with a with a big influencer though, you know? That's the hard part. Yeah. Yeah. How do you get like five big people involved in one project and make it worth their time? Right? Yeah. So, for for ZTON right now, I mean, we we essentially built out his entire backend, and all he has to do is just hop on one call a month. So, it works really well for him. But the problem that I, I think that we kind of might run into is that a lot of these people are competitive of each other, right? So they're like, "Oh, is this Zoven's thing? I don't really want to feel like I'm under Zto." We're like, "No, we run Music Money is completely us." And, it's a little bit of a, I feel like a little bit of a, um, turbulence, I guess. Like with, Wait, can I ask some questions? So like, Um, you said you want more. Why do you want more Zens? Uh, we're just trying to like destroy the market. Like, be like the market leader. I want to have like, You want to grow? I want to have like, 10 huge artists and producers. Um, because I wanted him to be one. I wanted it to be not just Zoven's thing. I wanted it to be like, Does he have the majority of the economics? No. I mean, it's about 50/50. Okay. Right. Um, he probably, he has a higher profit profit margin on his 50/50. But, Sure. Um, Yeah, I just wanted to be like, one, we have key man risk. 100% key man risk if he was like, "Hey, I don't want to do it anymore." Yeah, sure. Yeah. We're down. Is it a traffic thing? Like, you just need more traffic? Yeah, I mean, more traffic. We can't ask for a CTA constantly. I think it's, I think it's traffic and branding, right? Cuz, Well, it's called Music Money. It's not called Zoven's thing. And that's cuz we created it. Yeah. Yeah. So like that, I think it might be hard to get more than one Zoven in one community, but maybe, what why not have another Zoven with another community? Just fulfillment, I think. Fulfillment, and I think just scalability. Like, I mean, we were with a pretty big producer actually. Yes. Last night, like he was in, we were talking to his man. Oh yeah, we're in Vegas at tow performance. So we went and met with him and everything. We're like, we didn't really get to pitch him because he was he was drunk. But, uh, beside the point, you know, like, I feel like we can these people, it's like another income stream for him, cuz it is a very blue ocean in this lane. There's nobody else doing it. There's one other person named Timberlin, if you guys know who Timberland is, but he has something against like his owner platform, and it's like, just for like beats and little clips and stuff. Yeah. Essentially, the the thing is, and Alex and Sam, I'd love y'all's input. We have five ANRs who coach everybody, right? I don't want to build out another ANR team. Yeah. I want to funnel all all these people because my ANR team's fire. They, you know, one of them manages Dram and runs Pusha T's label, and I can't get more of those people, right? But I can get more brand ambassadors and then have them fulfilled. I, I also want the name to be like, if somebody goes to like a studio, like an artist is in the studio and they're like, "Oh, are you a part of Music Money?" Like, I wanted to be like a a thing, you know, where it's like over 50% of, Independent artists and producers are literally a part of this thing. You guys are building it with the right perspective. Just as a side note, like I can just tell that you actually really want to build this and make it into something cool. So just like kudos for that. If I were to, I'm going to just use this as a simple example. So if I wanted to build a no-strip company, right? If I say, "Hey guys, I'm going to launch my no-strip company." No one is going to promote it. If I were to launch it that way, if I wanted to make it, if I really wanted to make this and make this this massive thing, what I would do is beforehand, I would go to five UFC fighters, my favorite NFL players, and be like, "When we launch this brand, I want you all in the picture with me, and I'll be on the side, and this is our brand." Because I want the brand to be bigger than anybody. I don't want it to be about a subset of Alex. I want this to be something much bigger, right? And so by doing it that way, inherently no one is singing to Alex by buying the product because then it's not just Alex fans, it's any of these guys' fans. And so then you start that way. That being said, to do that, you either need money to get those guys to do it. Um, well, really you just need money. Um, because otherwise you have to, you know, convince that you're going to slice the pie, you know, 10 ways, and then it's like, well, now, now what? You know what I mean? It's like the business only has this much to work with, and everybody else is getting spiffed. And so you either have sponsorship opportunities where you're basically paying them for traffic and endorsement.

Would you lean that way? I mean, right now, you can't give up more fundamentally because you already have half that's going to Zoeven. So you'd have to do sponsorship deals, and if you really want it to to like pro, like Zoven, depending on how involved he is, if he can open, because he probably can get responses pretty easily if he reaches out to people. And I think if he's instead of saying like, "Hey, come underneath of my umbrella," he says like, "I want to pay you to sponsor our thing because I don't want it to be about me, and over time I'd like it to be about all of us because I think this is really dope." And that way they're being compensated. But again, this is the, it's a risk-reward trade of like, you're going to make, you're going to commit to some sort of money. Uh, like this is how big brands do it. Like, they paid LeBron. LeBron didn't get, I mean, to my knowledge, doesn't have shares of Nike. He just got a billion dollars in cash. Sure. Yeah. And I think our only hesitant thing on this is because like we've built this model with with Z, right? And so it's like we've convinced, you're not convinced, but you know, we've sold him on our, you know, fulfillment, right? And we, we do this stuff really well. It's kind of one of those things. It's like, uh, why? Like, for instance, he makes 50% of what he brings in. Why can't I go to another person and go, "You make 50%?" Oh, does he just make 50% of? Yeah, like we, we own, we own an LLC and we created the course. Let me ask this. Let me ask it differently. So, as it currently stands, does he get 50% of everything in the community, or does he get 50% of what he said? So, he gets 50% of everything in the community because he's the only traffic source right now. We're not running any ads or anything. We're just utilizing his data. Yeah. So, I feel like we can kind of pivot to going, "Hey, new producer, you get 50%." Well, when the affiliate thing rolls out, if you guys own that 100%, then it's like, "Hey, from here on out, Zevan, go through this link." Um, and then when we have like the next affiliate links, then you can just give that to all of them. Yeah. So, you're almost saying like, whenever that launches, just be be ready. What, What do you think about the messaging of the brand being like, if we're going to do that way? Because right now, we've been Zoven has been positioning as this is his thing. Yeah. We've been positioning that way. Should we shift it to more like, if we're going to get other people, like, "Hey, I'm a part of Music Money." And, I mean, that's going to be a conversation with Zoven. Honestly. Because I mean, if, if you sold him one way and then you're changing the rules of the game on him, then like he might not like that. But is Zoven really high up? Yeah. I mean, he's just Grammy award-winning. So, if you have the beauty of having the influencer that's high up, is you can use the other influencers that still have influence to promote the thing about this one because it's more effective as for them to promote it because they've got the audience, but this person helps make the conversion, makes it credible. Yeah. And so you, you've got different levels. You're not, maybe you're trying to think of creating many Zato exactly the same, but maybe it's at a different level. Yeah. I think it's just because there's so many producers who want or artists that want to be, they see this and they're like, "I want that." That's, you know, so it's like, they're out there, but, If it's passive income they want, there's other ways to do that. So what I want to, I want to just double down on what Sam was saying. Um, I think that you're already in this position that you're in now. So it's like, we have to play the cards that we have. And so realistically, you have a big, you know, a player mega influencer guy that you did the partnership with, which is great, and that's why you were making money. That's why you're here, right? So I think I would just look at all the B players in the market that are still massive contributors. Like, there's tons of people who refer to school as a result of my affiliation, right? And so it's just like, leverage Zoe to get all of those people. Like, the people who are who are saying like, "No," are the ones that are in between the two, and like, it's an ego thing and whatever, and that's fine. Um, but it's like, that that next, that next level. Um, Plus, they're probably going to go harder to like prove, you know. Yeah. Yeah. That's kind of real. Yeah. Cool. Thank you. That that that was basically the the conversation on mega versus meta. Did anybody else have any questions on that?

Yeah. So I want to emphasize on a different perspective on the same topic with the affiliates. So I have done 2D case on two different brands. Both are making like a million a month. One is e-commerce brands. You probably seen it. It's about sex chocolate, and they're doing something similar. Like they're having huge Discord, maybe like 10, 20k people there, and everyone has access to drive. Everyone can access to tracking link, which is a Shopify extension, and pretty much they realized that they are the owners like of the brand. They like they made the product, but it's not their job to create the content. So they found out that many people have unique ideas to create unique content, which is quite hugely estimated, which many people are doing. So yeah, they had crazy results and people going viral all over the internet just because like they're giving the the opportunity of people to use their product and to pretty much sell it and get percentages. Super easy to track into this no funnel extension, and also like they're doing incentives in the Discord, like, uh, you're getting, uh, weekly spin, like if you join, like you get reward, and also if you're like making like more than 1K, you get another incentive and so on. So this is the first thing. And the second one is also quite funny. Like there is one big, a really big OFM model, like she's doing more than two, two million a month, and she has like a Discord where people like are creating memes around her, which is the thing, like because people are sending memes to other people, and yeah, that's when creates this web. That's awesome, man. Looks like we're right at a a nice wrap point for the the mega mini kind of affiliate thing. Lunch is over there. Just get us out of this wall. If we can meander over there, we'll pick back up in like 60, and then we'll we'll rock and roll from there. Cool.

All right. Awesome. If you guys want to go towards that. Good lunch. Thank you, Goose. Appreciate it. Thank you, Zane. Appreciate it. Um, all right. So, we kind of have a blank canvas in terms of next topic. So, I think we we pretty much covered retention pretty hardcore. Um, and I also like that it was from a different perspective. Uh, we talked about a handful of your guys' acquisition processes in terms of getting, uh, turning leads into customers. Um, if I look at what we had from earlier, um, we've got content. A couple people asked about scaling was one, uh, that a handful of you guys asked about. Um, and then free to paid and the pricing over time. I know you guys, you're curious about that. Um, any of those jump out at anyone? Or something else. We're not limited by that. Yeah.

Oh, it's consistency when you're scaling, like creating, you mean inside of the inside of the community? No, so like as the revenue goes up, um, like delivering, but not making the sales go down. What? Delivering what? Uh, the service. I was like, basically building the programs out and stuff. So essentially, cuz I was selling before we built, so no one watches the classroom. H. No, should I continue? Okay. We're saying, uh, we were building the content as we were getting people in. So we're not spending time building. It had less time to get people in and like less promoted content. How would you sort that out? Uh, can you restate the question? Yeah. So, I'm not trying to raz you. I actually just want to understand what I'm answering. Yeah. So, we're we were selling before we built the program. Okay. So, as I'm actually using time to create the content and get the program out, there's less time to get more people in. So, the revenue goes down as we're building. So, how would you fix that? Aren't you guys partners? Do you, You're not solo, are you? Split the responsibilities. Maybe one on growth, one on building. That's a great way. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Nailed it. And also, you're going to work a lot. So, just as a side note, like, you're just going to work a lot. Yeah. We work all day already. Yeah. Oh, we also have one more person, Kirby, who does like community management. So, we divided it even more. Like, I'll just think about making it better. Kirby will run it operationally, and Hormosi will bring people in. Do you see? Mhm. That makes sense. So get like potentially more people if needed. If not, just split the work. Yeah. If revenue is going down because you're like, you, The point I was making earlier about the classroom thing is like, I would not want you to overproduce content for the classroom since the vast majority of people, they quote want to buy it, but they don't actually consume it. Um, and they consume the community far more than they consume the content. Mhm. And so I would like try and make it as pared down as you possibly can to increase the likelihood that they do consume it and get value because if they see a ton of videos, they just say like, nah. But if you say like, "Guys, the whole thing you can cover in less than two hours," then the likelihood that they're going to watch it goes way up. Does that make sense? So I would just not, don't kill yourself on it. Try and think what are the actual fewest things they need in order to be successful. Just make that so that you can still focus on basically keeping keeping the business going. Yeah. Perfect. Thank you.

Um, how to revive a dead community, right? So, one of our partners, um, they got in school very early on, and it just grew very massively before we had built out our infrastructure. They have 14,000 members. Just dead. Community is just dead. I think a lot of people on the school community haven't even been in there probably in weeks, months. Um, I think I went one time, there was a lot of like bots and stuff, and we hadn't gotten that system in place, and that kind of probably like wasn't good. And then, see how to revive that community so it can be more of a nurture to the paid. So this is your free community? Uh, into into Music Money. No, this is, so yeah, we we work with a lot of, we have a bunch of different communities. Okay. Um, this is one of our free communities. It's called Kingdom Minds. Okay. Yeah. They have like 14,000 members, and their paid community is doing well because we do webinars. Okay. And we just sell that, but the free community itself is just, Yeah. Like 95% of people are like at level one, essentially, like, you know, they may do an introduction, and then that's all they ever do. So, like, just is there anything you guys have in mind like to bring that back to life, if that makes sense. Did you do the same thing that Zayn did where like the people went into the free thing, you sold all the engaged people into, No, and I think that's definitely part of it, but even the most engaged people in the free group of that one are the people from the paid group. They stayed over there and still were engaged, but it's like, we can't elicit more engagement out of people. They they're like, "Oh, I want to join." You know, they join, make a profile, and then they're like, you know, We don't know how to make it like a part of their everyday. Kirby, do you have anything they've heard? Yeah, I would like launch with something exciting like a challenge or something that is going to get people excited. But why reactivate? Why do you want to reactivate? What problem does it solve? Well, it's just 14,000 members and I'm just like, you know, I feel like, Do a few broadcast posts in there and then move on. Do you post in there much? Um, so yeah, we have a school manager that's making posts in there. Um, Are they good posts? It's okay posts, you know, about like content. Nothing. Honestly, a lot of the game that we got in right now about like, you know, making it more funny and entertaining, we'll definitely like, you know, add that in there. Has been more value-based and more like, "Hey, we got a free training," which is the webinar. So, it's probably a lot of more CTA. What problem does the group solve? Um, it's about social media, you know, you know, like, why? No, no, not not for them. Like, why does it exist for you? Uh, as an upsell, as a as a funnel to go to the paid community and to, So it's the lead magnet? It's the lead magnet. Well, really the webinar is. So here's the thing. So the webinar is the lead magnet, but we have a webhook that takes people to the free community. So people were just getting into the free community after the webinar. So we don't even have their data on like phone numbers and stuff. So all we have is their email from school. Let me ask this. If you just didn't have the free community, would everything still work fine? Yeah. So maybe maybe maybe you just have a paid community and you just run ads to your webinar, sell people into the paid community, and that's, I just, I think the only reason we'd want to get it better is just for discover, you know, beyond the discover. Yeah. One one point, we were top 20. The community was top 20 because it was growing so fast, and then now it's like, I don't even know. It's like up there. So it's just kind of like, we have this a bunch of members in there, like, I mean, we could deactivate it. But, Do you have any super users? No. Yeah. They they've already upgraded to paid members, essentially. They're still over on the free community. But yeah, it's just, you know, our our only point of really getting it back alive would be to get on the discovery. I think, you know, overall, like raising the engagement to get on discovery page would be the ultimate goal.

I want to add something when it comes to the post. So, you have a community manager, right? Mhm. Do they have their own accounts, or do they use your accounts? They, they use the the person's account, The, Yeah, the owner's account. Okay. Yeah. Because if somebody else makes a post, but they're a community manager, nobody will pay attention because people join because of you or the artist, right? So, yeah. Great point though. I mean, think I think if you're going to try and engage it, I think do basically doing something exciting that is valuable for those people will get them to be excited, and then I would just, I, I'd balance that with Sam's question, which is like, why do you even bother? Yeah. If you do re-engage it, one thing that we did that was quite successful when we were doing the Rainbow Games thing was one requirement was you had to tag people that were less active than you that you'd like to compete with, and it was actually surprisingly successful. Yeah, that's interesting. Sweet. Anything else come up? Questions? Top of mind? Otherwise, I'm going to grab out of this bag of of. There was some that were interesting cuz all the ones left, we've pretty much covered at previous ones. Right. Yeah. They're like standard topics, but there was some that were kind of unique this time around, like, um, and I, I think this kind of relates somewhat to what you just said, which is what is the next lever to pull? Mhm. It's like, cuz, you know, there's a million things you could do, like reactivate this dead community, but I swear, your time would be better spent doing something else. Yeah. Like, how do you find that next lever to pull? Yeah. So this is like, so that question fundamentally for everyone here, like, if you could walk away with that being correct, would be in my opinion, the most valuable thing that you can do to walk away from here because you're going to have two pages, three pages of notes from today, and what's going to happen is you're going to get on a plane, and you're going to have a fresh piece of paper, and you're going to go through your notes, and then you're going to write like a list of like three things that you're actually going to do, and then that's actually what you're going to end up doing from today. That will be the output of this day. And so I just want to make sure that, and then of those three things, one of them will have by far a disproportionate impact on how much money you make. And so most small businesses or even even mid-size businesses don't grow as fast as they could because they spend their time doing the wrong things. It's, and the, and the what's what's deceptive about it is you can make an argument that reactivating this group can make the business more money. There's a lot of things that can make the business more money. The question is just which of these things will make it the most money. And so by doing that, we have to reverse back into, we had those four levers that I had earlier. We've got traffic, we've got conversion, we've got price, and then we've got churn. So those are the big four things. And so if we want to grow the business, those

Levers have to change, or the business will not grow. And so, for many of you, it might just be you need more traffic. Like, the business model is fine, the economics are fine, and you need more traffic. And so, basically, at least my thought process that I have with this is, I try and scale as much as I possibly can until something breaks. And then when it breaks, we fix that thing and then go back to scaling the [ __ ] out of it again. I mean, fundamentally, that's what we do. And, um, I mean, I teach this at, at for for businesses, but I'll walk you through it.

Uh, so what is going to go to these four levers that we talked about earlier, right? Which is going to be your traffic, your two Fs there, whatever conversion, which is you tweaking your about page, making a VSSL that's better, adding carousel images, tweaking the bullets that you have on your landing page. Uh, you've got the price, which you can test, and then you've got churn, right? Which has a big list of things that you can do. So, these are the four levers. The things that you're doing have to ladder up to one of these four. If it doesn't ladder up to one of these four things, why are you doing it?

All right, so like, if we were to translate your objective with the free group, you would have to say, "Okay, I think that the us reactivating the free group will increase traffic." That's fundamentally what you're doing. You want this traffic source to make you more money from your to towards your ticket, high-ticket thing. And you say, "Okay, how much work will it take me to reactivate this group?" Okay, is there anything else that could get me more traffic than reactivating the group of the things that I have available? So, right now, could me just spending more money on ads or making better ads make us more than me spending the time to reactivate the group? If so, forget reactivating the group, make better ads or spend more money on ads. Does that make sense?

So, once you figure out, and when we're picking which of these three things or four things that you're doing, the thought process is, what, which of these is the biggest constraint in the business? And so, if conversion rate, let's say, for example, on the on the landing page is super low, then it might mean like, "Hey, before getting more traffic, I'm going to, I think I can double my conversion on this page because I haven't really spent any time on it at all." Okay. Well, then it makes sense to spend a day or two. Like, "Can I really clean this up and make it as Christmy possible with the language that I use? Can I grab screenshots that are more meaningful? That like you probably had more testimonials, things like that you haven't updated. Like, can I put that on there? Can I make an actual three-minute VSSL that that is more compelling than the one that I just like tossed up there?" Okay, that's probably a day of work. Well, it's probably high leverage because I can double the growth of the business by just improving this conversion metric. Pricing, like, well, if everybody just pays you more, we already went through that example over here. Um, this could obviously make you more money. And then you have your big list of things that you're doing for churn. And so, cool. Which of these is the biggest, uh, thing that's going to drain the business? You pick the one that you're working on.

And then for me, I tend to think through this, more, better, new. And I tend to do it in this order most of the time. So like, I will just ask one of our portfolios, like, "Why can we not just do more of what we're currently doing?" Like, whatever we're doing, why can't we just do more? So, you'd have to make an argument to me that we should reactivate this group rather than just spending more money on ads. You have to make an argument that it's easier and it will make us more money than spending more money on ads. And if you came back to the argument, that'd be like, "Well, then forget about it."

If we can't do any more for whatever reason, we have some limitation. Like, we can't post more than twice a day on Instagram. Like, we just can't. Or we can. It just like, we've seen that when we post three times, it doesn't, doesn't yield the same performance. So, two is kind of the sweet spot. Fine. All right. Then, what can we do to make it better? Right. Okay. Because if we can make those two posts just higher quality overall, can we like really think through the hooks? Can we make sure that they're tight, that they appeal ideally to the audience that we're looking for? If we do better, then the quality of the traffic will go up, the more views will go up. Does that make sense?

Now, if we can't do any more, any better, then we need to try something new. And you notice that most of the times you can do more of what you're doing. You can do what you're doing better, which is why I so rarely do new things. Once you have something that works, that's the hard part. Once it works, it's like, "How do we scale the living crap out of it?" And the reason that most entrepreneurs, in my opinion, especially small ones, get stuck is that they find something that works and then they stop doing it and then they get distracted by six other new things and they get completely spread thin. And it's, and like, what's ironic is that the small business owner is the one who has the least amount of leverage. And you have the basically your your contribution, your time contribution to the the income of the business is more direct than anybody else's, especially at this level. And so like, you like saying, "Okay, I'm going to take a third of my time." That might just be like decreasing your business by a third. Um, and so you have to have a very strong argument for why that's going to make sense.

And then for who, once you have a team, then that becomes the the next thing. It's like, "Okay, we know we increase traffic. The way that we're going to do that is like, we can't do more posts on Instagram, so we're going to make them better." And this is the process that we're going to focus on getting better, which means that, uh, once a week, I'm going to take three hours and I'm going to script out. I'm going to look at other people's, you know, content that have really good hooks. I'm going to write down all the hooks and then I'm going to make content that I think is going to appeal to my demographic in a better way. Cool. Now, who's going to be, you know, if it's you, then you're the who in a lot of these. If the business gets bigger, then it's like, "Okay, Jeremy, you're running this, and then we just measure to make sure Jeremy does his job." That makes sense in terms of thinking through this. And so, we just want to make sure that what you are doing is going to map to what's going to drive growth within the business. And I swear to God, so many times people are just doing [ __ ] that does not map to this.

Okay, red's over. >> One quick question on that. The the first four, is there like a certain priority that you would recommend for like I'm a solo operator. I'm doing like 50 a month >> B to offer. Is there like one of those big four that you would recommend prioritizing first? >> Start here. >> Okay. >> Because this is how you have life load in the business. So you have to promote. You have to acquire customers. Once this is relatively consistent, even at a low level, I then, this is me, how I think through this now, not when I was younger. Normally, I would just be like, "Just do as much of this as you can. Forget everything else." Now, it's, "Do enough of this so that we can keep working on how do we, how do we find the things that people actually want versus what we think they want?" And then are there things that we can remove? Like, "How can we delete things? How can we make this simpler? How can we make it more elegant? How can we shorten the the models that we have?" I mean, we're hiding classroom for new people. Like, think about this, like we removed three calls a week. Like, we're trying to take things away. Not because we don't want to add value. It's easy for us to add the value. It's, but we want them to consume it. And so consumption should be the highest priority for everybody here in terms of making like, "How do they get value?" They have to consume value, right? So consumption should be the highest priority. And so, um, we start here until you have enough flow going through the system that we can see what they really want. And a lot of times these simple things, like the last semester, I think we went through a ton of depth of all the things that you can do to reduce churn, right? It's like, so you experiment with that. And this might be months while you're doing this. I mean, for context, school didn't hit like a, like, let's hyperscale until like recently, and this was years, right, of getting the product right. Like, obviously, like, there's people coming in every day, and there was enough promotion that we basically we could test and keep learning, but it wasn't like, "We don't want the world to find out about it yet because we want to get all these pieces." All right. Once these pieces are right enough, then you go back here and you scale the living hell out of it. Boom. Yep. It's great.

So, right now, the the question for you is, if you have really low churn, I don't know if you do, but from what you were saying, it sounds like you have low churn. Then then yeah, do more >> traffic. Yeah. >> Do more. Do better of what you're currently doing. So, you're, are you running ads? >> Yeah. >> Do you spend more? >> Spend more and make them better. Top 20% of my best customers targeted towards them now that I have that insight and then just keep making that better and then just more >> more better and then just spend 400 grand a month on ads. >> Yeah, sure. >> I mean, it's like an inside joke in my business, like he's just going to say "more better." It's like, "Yep, that's what we're going to do this quarter, just like we did last quarter, just like we did the quarter before. We're going to do more. We're going to do better." And if we do both those things, we'll probably make more money. And then if there's something that prevents us from doing more or better, then we fix that and then we go back to more better. Does anyone have questions about what they need to do for this? Like, like you need, you're like, "Okay, am I should I be spending more money?" Well, if your if your LTV is good in terms and your and your and your CAC is low, then yeah, I just keep spending.

>> I guess for like low ticket communities, you know, recently you had a video where you went like seven things like handwritten letters, onboarding, exe. >> Yeah. >> For communities on school, like which one of these would you go after the first? Kirby, I feel like you have even more insightful >> with you. The price sounds like the thing that's moving it. >> Is it good? >> The price. Okay. >> Because you've already experienced what that's doing, right? You know, the average is around 20. You probably want to be on the good side of that. So, figure out why you're not. Like, I would talk to your customers first. Like, "Why did you cancel?" You want to talk to the people that canceled. You want to talk to the people that stayed. And you want to figure out what differences they have. And then if you find the people that stayed did these things, emphasize those things. If you find the people that left did other things, remove those. And so it might not be price. I'm just >> Yeah, >> it but you told us. So, um, maybe it's price. So like balance that. And then, you know, with your traffic, you you can drive more of that. And then you can play with about page conversion. You can play with that. And then when you're bored of those, go back to retention. Yeah. Ch. >> I know I can drive like easily way more traffic. It's just that I have a leaky bucket. Yeah. So I want to fix it. So I'm like wondering if I should add the onboarding or you know >> onboarding, I think for sure is a good idea. And how would you execute that for low ticket? >> Do you do a group onboarding? And everybody who signs up gets one group onboarding that you attend? You do it once a week. I think people throw a lot of [ __ ] in their community and then they just keep adding and then they think they need to keep adding to make it better. But it's not true. Like, overwhelm is the main cause of churn. >> Um, so you take away like, and and think about the experience. >> So how many things in the classroom would you say is like the sweet spot? Cuz like right now I have like eight maybe. Honestly, the hardest part I found when improving anything is to figure out what's actually wrong with it. >> That, but I've been working on the school games funnel recently. By the way, home will be happy about this. Um, I figured out like what the problem, to try to figure out what the problem was, was actually quite difficult. But in the was my, it was this guy I knew from New Zealand who's a complete stoner that had text me when Horoszi when Horoszi launched the games. He couldn't understand what it was, and I was not going to try to explain it to him. But when we came back to making this, improving it, I was like, "It turned out that he was the best signal for it." Actually, "What the [ __ ] is the school games?" I wrote it down. That was the problem. If you didn't know what school was, and you see an ad from Hormos and he's talking about the school games and some leaderboards and coming to Vegas, people don't know what the [ __ ] that is. So I wrote down, "What the [ __ ] is the school games?" and I was like, "That is the problem." So, but that took me a lot of research to to like find, right? I was talking to a lot of people. I was doing this with Kirby. It's quite an interesting process, right? And then we were like, "Okay, well, how do we describe this damn thing in a way that is makes sense to like a stoner dude?" Um, because it helps to use extreme cases. Like, Steve Jobs tested products on children because like, if they could understand it, anyone could understand it, right? So like, defining the problem and then coming up with different ways you could solve it. I've been doing this with Goose and Kirby in the office all week. We probably designed, we came up with many different ways to describe what it is. Many different landing pages, many different bullets. And we just kept talking to users, getting feedback, and kept iterating it. We probably made 30 versions. Some of them were so wrong, it was, I wondered what kind of tangent. >> You'll never see it. >> But you know, we act, at the end of about one week, we landed on something and, um, and now everyone we show it to instantly gets it. It's like, we don't actually have to fully launch to find out. When you learn how you can use everyone to get like feedback and talk to people and show it to people and get their reactions, you can do a lot of fast iteration cycles without the harshness of like reality. Then when you launch it into reality, you have a way better chance, right? Um, so that's how you improve anything like that. That's not the games, but that's what we were doing to the games recently. We, Kirby was doing interviews with all of the winners. That was overwhelming. Not many people were showing up. So we cut that. We just did one Hozi Q&A. Right. Attendance is up. Every viewing is up. People are now saying that it's way more valuable. And, you know, so it's, we were unlocking the one-day recordings after you got three customers. We were like, "Why are we making it hard to get the most valuable thing?" Now you just need three members. They can be free, right? So like, what do people value? How do we make more people experience that? What do people not value? Take it out. What do people not understand? Reword it. You see, it's all the same.

>> But I, I, I will, I will emphasize what Sam's saying is that there's a, it's so much more work than you expect it to be. And everyone wants like the one silver bullet that you're going to magically fall on it, but if it were obvious, you would have already done it. And so it's like, it's disguised. And that's what I mean. This is literally what makes business hard. And so I'll have a business owner on a Q&A call say like, "What should my price be?" And I'm like, "I don't know. I'll walk you through the process of how I'd figure it out, but I don't know your avatar. I don't know your traffic scores. I don't know the value prop of your community." And even if I did, I would say, "I'll start here and I'm going to do the math and I'll move it and I'll do the math." I mean, with a portfolio, committed 50, 35, 25, 15. We just tested it. I was like, "I don't know. We'll find out." And then they were all the same. And then I was like, "Okay, well, which business would I prefer?" And then we go into that, right? And so, just, just in terms of thinking through things, like the amount of effort that goes into it that most, I would say that like, as I've gone, as I've gone moved up in business, the my understanding of the level of effort that's required to solve complex problems has gone up 100x. It's just a significantly harder to solve more complex problems. And that's also why the biggest paydays are on the other side of those problems because if they were really easy to solve, everyone would have already solved it. So, it's like four hours and a cup of coffee and a bunch of data and you're like, "All right, let's try this."

>> There's a quote I learned from the software engineers at school. They say, "You have to make every detail perfect, but the only way you can do that is to limit the amount of details that you have." So, inside of the school games, we have eight videos. All of them together are less than 45 minutes. One course. We do one call per week and that's it. And once a month, you get a download from here, the mastermind. That's it. Very easy to explain to someone. One call, one course, one mastermind a month. >> And there's 13,000 people in there, each paying $99 a month, and they get the school software.

>> I have a question. >> Yeah. >> So, there's a fine balance between because if you're a leader of a big community, right? If you're showing up too much, you kind of almost lose your power, right? And if you do Q&A's every single day, nobody want, it's not special. So, how would you balance Q&A calls, making posts inside of the community, and just showing up and like giving people attention like that? >> I'm sure there's a data answer for this rather than me just guessing. We could probably find it out of like what the the best, you know, cadence is. I'll tell you, I personally, I think, post twice a month in school. That's not planned. I just, I just kind of poke around and I see what people are struggling with. I made that niche post because I was really tired of people being like, "What's my niche going to be about?" And I was like, "Here's how you find your niche." >> And so it's just like, I just listen to what was the like, there's, you probably noticed this in your community. It's probably like a pro, like a problem duour. It's like, people just kind of glob onto a single problem all of a sudden. And like, I felt like I was seeing more and more of that. So I was like, "All right, I'm gonna try and answer this." And so then you make that, and then it's like, hopefully, and if it does, if you put the thing in, and then that problem still exists, then you didn't do it right. So it's like, you have to do it again, you have to make it simple, you have to make it easier, whatever it is, you keep doing it until that one goes away, and then like the next problem will occur. And the good news is that your customers will always have problems. >> Yeah. >> And so you just solve them.

>> I can tell you a good thing that works for me. Um, so I spend a lot of my time reading what people are saying. Like, I'm trying to understand what things people are struggling with. So I'm not in there just posting a lot. I'm in there listening the most, more than anything else. Most, it would be like 90, it would be like a lot of time is spent listening, trying to figure out what is going on, what should I improve, what problems is the community facing, right? Then when I'm pretty sure I've got those problems, I'll even talk to some power users and I'll validate, "Do you think these are actually problems?" Right? And then I'll make sure I'm clear on the problems first. Okay, now, if I spend, now prioritize them, what's the most, what is the most pressing problem? Okay, number one. Now I'll just focus on that. At least I know if I just fix that, I'll add some value, right? >> Yeah. >> So now I'll try to fix that. And I will try to fix that by research, experimentation, etc. And then I'll come back to my community and say, "Hey, I saw all of you guys were facing this. That sucks. I fixed it. Here you go." >> And that's how I like, that's how you add value. >> Seriously, no. Like, I have, I have this little template on my wall for emails, which is, "Hey, I made this thing for you. Here's what it does." >> Good afternoon. Enjoy. Like CTA. Like that's like, that's my email template. Like, it just makes it really simple. Like, "Hey, you guys were struggling with this thing. I made this for you. Here's why it's important. Goodbye." >> The hard part is finding the thing. >> Like I said, how do we make the school games funnel better? What's the problem with it? That's the real question. And it was some stoner dude who had the answer factor. >> Yeah, so you wouldn't have a schedule of like posting daily or a second like every second day or >> Definitely not. >> That's like a Henry Ford production line for community. >> Like we're not trying to pump out posts fast. That's not what makes a >> Robotic. >> That's not that's not a good community. A good community is something that understands your pain and experience and delivers solutions and is fun. >> Yeah. >> You right. Yeah. And isn't overwhelming. And doesn't make me read five articles a day, right? Like value post. Yeah. Because I don't want to read a bloody article. That's a pain in the ass. Like I want a solution. >> Or I want to laugh. One of them. Yeah.

>> So I have a question. If you guys had to decide on building like an Adonis school or an anime Shreds, which would be your choice? I actually don't understand the question. >> So the the model that they have, like you look at Adonis school and he's got loads of um, uh, delivery in the calendar section, like every day, twice a day, uh, and it's a higher price point. And then you got anime Shreds, which is, you know, nothing in the calendar, but loads of posts, like just emojis and random stuff. Like, which is a better model for actually helping more people, getting greater scale, and then eventually making more money with that? Well, I guess we'll find out. >> If you guys had to pick one, which would you which would you pick? >> Well, I've watched both of them. The anime Shreds one's super interesting because it broke a lot of like preconceived ideas. Like it had no classroom when it launched. It was $11 and it grew to 100 grand a month faster than anything. And it became number one on Discovery, right? Like real fast. And there wasn't a ton of posting in there from the owners. It was mostly driven by the members, right? Um, plus I know their their about page conversion rate is one of the highest. What I'm really curious about is their churn, but I guess that time will tell. It's new, but I think the fact they started lower and then increased higher makes it's a good move for churn. And I also know churn is lower when your price is lower. So that will be quite interesting to watch over time. And so can it scale? I know Hams is trying to scale higher in Adonis school. I I think Anime Shreds guys apparently want to scale more. Both people probably want to do as least work as possible, right? So, there's that, and then there's the retention. And it will, like, over time, we'll see like how those two models differ. I think what Anime Shreds wasn't just the price though. I think what they showed us is that if you, if you have like something unique, like the fact that it was called anime shreds in the artwork. >> Yeah. >> That's that definitely added something. Um, that's kind of what Goose showed us. If you make something a little bit more unique, and that's just like free performance, right? Like, if you can make your landing page conversion double by just theming things and making them a little bit more interesting, that for sure is really good. Like, I would encourage everyone to think about that. Um, but I can't say which model was better. Uh, it's really hard to say because I know like anime shreds converts way higher, but Adona school is way more expensive, and they're both making around the same amount per month.

>> It'll come down to EPCs, earnings per click. So fundamentally, if a 100 clicks go to Adana school and 100 clicks go to, and this is, to be fair, is purely contrasting the business and like the community because traffic sits outside of that. Because if animation reds 10x's their traffic, they will become 10 times bigger than than Adonis school, independent of what they did inside of the box. And so, if we're just isolating conversion rate, price, and churn, then you look at what's the, if I have 100 clicks, how much are these clicks worth for this business versus this business? And then that literally just gives you the objective measure of which one of these creates the most dollars. Cuz I'm kind of at a point where I'm like, "You guys start the school games and great, you've got that platform for us." And then I said, "Okay, I'm going to copy what you guys are doing with the school games and how you run things." And I copied Adonis School and gang because that was the guy at the top. Right now, anime shows it looks like he's going up there. And I'm at a point where I'm like, "Which which model is better and which one's actually?" Yeah. Cuz I'm not that good at business. I just see things that work and I copy it. You're not bad at >> Well, there's going to be more. There's going to be more. So if you keep switching, you're going to get trouble. >> Exactly. That's where the stick with the sticky >> like even saying it like that, me thinking about it is like >> it's probably neither. It's probably the one that that is more like authentic to your >> I've got a feeling as to what it might be. But you know, >> All right. What is that? >> The feeling. >> Yeah. >> Well, my feeling to do it is it goes a bit opposite to cuz I'm doing 17 lives a a week in my paid at the moment. So >> Yeah. >> But my my feeling is telling me to put it in the free community. But I mean, that might be stupid because I'm trying to listen to what you guys are saying. You're saying no, we're just doing one now. And it's like, so I'm a bit the [ __ ] you know? I think if you want to use all that like all that. So last last games, a ton of people, I think it was last games, that was like it was like the lives games. It was like everybody was doing like Instagram lives. It might have been maybe two ago. Um, and that the thing is is like we have to separate promotion from delivery. So from a promotion perspective, you're doing lots and lots of lives. You're making lots of posts. You're making all this stuff >> in the actual >> Oh no, I understand. I got you. And so my point is is like, I would take all that energy and put it into promotion so you get way more people into your community. And then the thing is is that you, if you do 17 lives a week externally, it's okay that people don't consume all of them because if they consume one of them, then they might buy. Whereas if you're inside of the community and you're doing 17, they might be like, "Oh, I'm missing out on 16 out of the 17. I'm not, I'm not getting the value." If it's free, your cost is time. And so as long as you deliver a return on the time that they spend consuming your content, then they got they have a positive exchange with you. And so you basically, it's like, you can never promote too much. You can put too much inside of the community. And so I would take some of that juju and put it externally to drive more through the box.

>> I think Hamza actually did like the opposite. Like when he increased the daily coffee to like nearly every day, um, his churn like reduced massively. So >> I have no idea. >> Uh, he's messaging me like every day. and trying to figure out like all kinds of things around churn at the moment. Um, I my answer to him, he kept coming up with ideas. My answer to him was, "Talk to your customers." And so I don't know if you're in a donor school. Oh yeah, I am, cuz I wanted to read his the feedback. So I was in there reading it, like that's why I said a lot of them said, "Put more people on the map." They, the map was one of the things the Adona school members valued the most. But what was most interesting is they said, "This was the consensus I found in terms of like, the community quality has gone down because there was a change in focus from business to dating, and now we're getting all of these people coming in that just want dating content, and now they're demanding that you make more on that. So you are. And now it's more dating-focused than business, and that brings the wrong people, and we feel like it's gone down in quality." That was what I read, like 300 comments, and that's that was the consensus of it. >> And the price might be too high for dating versus like, if you're $129 a month, that's usually a more business-oriented price, whereas a dating price is probably going to be lower than that. >> Yeah. David, it seemed like most people in Hams' group actually cared about business, but for some reason he was, he had changed the focus to dating. So, this is why you've got to find out what is the thing. Is it increasing coffee hour? Is it making more courses? Is it changing the price? Or is it just literally refocusing on business over dating? Like, that's why I'm saying finding the thing is the is the challenge, not the actual doing of it. I mean, this was very tough for me because I, I, I recently was pretty public about this is that like I widened my content for, I think either three or six months. I like started sprinkling in some other other pieces. I talked about how I eat and like Leila, you know, how Leila and I run, you know, being married and things like that. And the the problem is that you do get positive reinforcement from it. And so it's like, he made some stuff on relationships and then people were like, "Oh, this is awesome." But the thing is is like, the wrong people were saying it was awesome. And so what was happening is my audience was growing, but it was growing with the wrong people. And so I had, I mean, I had this moment where like, sometimes you have these, like, I had a a friend of mine come into a friend, acquaintance, I would say, flew in and was like, um, and he probably does 10 million bucks a year. And he was like, "Yeah, you know, um, yeah, I don't, I don't listen to too much of your stuff anymore." And he's like, "Yeah, I was hardcore for like six years." Um, and then I just kind of, um, I guess it didn't really apply to me anymore. He's like, "Because I'm not really like your avatar." And I was like, "You're 100% [ __ ] avatar. Like, you are exactly who I'm going after." And then I was like, "Oh, I'm a moron." And I just basically, it's like, you, you get, you get, it's a balance. You, like, you want to listen to customers, but you also want to make sure you're listening to the right customers. And so, um, I reoriented all my my content, which maybe some of you guys have seen. Um, and it's been 100% back to business. Has been the the theme that we have internally, my guys know, um, is that if it's not business, we don't make it. Just very straightforward. Like, it can be business adjacent. So like, if I talk about, you know, prioritizing like tasks in my day, that can have some element of productivity into it, but it's like, all my examples are going to be business-related. And so, but by doing that, when I looked objectively across metrics for site conversion, opt-in, book sales, applications, the portfolio, all of those metrics went up, even though the average view per video went down. And so it's like, I'm not in this to get famous. I'm in this to make money.

Quick question. Um, I wonder if anybody has, I this might be for everybody, but like, has anybody done anything to when they do have a turned customer to get them back into being a customer? >> Or >> Send a funny gift. >> Or just send a funny gift. >> In a DM. Ask credit. Have you seen him? >> Yeah. >> Ask him for his message. He's apparently got some message. He DMs people with a funny gift. >> And it gets people to reactivate. He says it's like something like "leaving so soon?" is kind of like the vibe is kind of >> Yeah. But you want to get the funny gift of >> course. Yeah. >> And it's just within school. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So no email, SMS, or anything like that. >> Our sales team has that for ghosted leads. >> They have a Kevin Hart uh meme that's like >> I think that might be it. I think that's what he's using. Yeah. >> And uh, yeah, it like it gets higher response rates than any any message. What's up Alison? So I was thinking a lot about like anime shreds and then Hamza's group and also Shark's group. So for for him when he asked me to make the course, the things that I looked for were like values, like core values that were necessary because values are the source of all motivation. So like, what would motivate his people to get his result? And it was those three core values: integrity, rigor, and discipline. And I think what Anime Shreds does really well is like, if you are familiar with anime, like protagonists, they have like really strong core values and they're like obsessive about certain things. And all of his content, it's like about that obsessiveness and it's relentless about how focused it is on those core values. And then hearing what Hamza did, like he had core values and then he stepped out of those core values and now he's suffering. So I think like, I'm not sure if that helps your answers your question, but I was just thinking about like, what actually worked about it and why it is like so attractive. It's because it's so loud and consistent and obvious and deep. Like he's just going deep on, cuz everyone wants to be an anime protagonist, you know, like the main character. And so having that like identity for them to strive for and those core values that are the stepping stones to that identity, I think is like part of what makes it so alluring for people.

>> And in fundamentally, what we're talking about right now is brand. It's your onbrand is that you have a series of associations that you purposely, you know, paired with you. And anime has made a number of pairings that are very consistent. And the more you pair them, the stronger it is. If I have two roses, it's different than if I have a room full of roses. Same thing, just the amount of repetition I have uh increases how strongly they will associate my brand with the thing, right? And so what happens is if you have all these red roses and then one weed, all of a sudden it like it shifts the way that you see the rest of the roses in the bouquet figuratively. And so making sure that you're consistent on basically the promise of the associations that made someone make the purchase to begin with. And so I'm sure you have a number of things that or a handful of things rather that you represent or that you want your values to, that you want the people who join your community to believe. And so it's like making sure that we stay within that lane and then hit it as hard as you can over and over and over again.

>> I, I have something potentially. I because you're, you music, right? Is it is it producers or is it >> It's, I'd say like 50/50 producers, producers. >> Think about like why a band would break up, I guess, like when one bandmate, especially if it's a very small group, breaks, like everyone feels that all the time. And like, how would you be able to get that bandmate back? Like, you'd have to, you know, bring them in like a friend again. Like, you'd really have to get emotional with them and bring them back. So, I don't know, maybe call them. You literally call people that canceled. >> That, that's one other thing I wanted to ask at some point, too. Um, the membership questions like to join a free group, everybody always has to answer them, but on a paid group, you don't have to answer the membership questions. So, sometimes we don't have their number, right? Because we ask for their phone number in the membership questions, but they don't, I guess they get to bypass that sometimes whenever they purchase the thing. So then it's like, I'd love to pick up the the phone and call them. That'd be my favorite thing. Yeah. >> But unless I already have their number in my CRM from whenever they've reached out at another point, I'm at, "Hey, what's your number, dude?" And maybe they don't even know how to work the school messages, you know? >> Yeah. >> But that's that is so real, bro. I appreciate that input. You know, I, I, I used to be a musician when I was younger, and like what bonded me with other people was like the jam sessions that you do. And like, as soon as the the one guy stopped showing up to the jam sessions, they'd be like, "Oh, where's Ernie?" Like, people, Yeah. Where's he, where's he at? You know? >> Also a great name for hangouts for you guys. Jam sessions. >> Love it. >> Related to branding. Um, like a year ago, you would say like, you know, "Never skip dessert," like some philosophical stuff, meaning doesn't matter. Have you changed your opinion on this that you just do like business stuff now? Like, because, you know, I heard you say like probably a year ago that it's like the combination of all these different things. Yeah. >> Make the most brand. Do you think the same? >> Great question. Um, and this was something like my team asked that. They're like, "I thought so. I thought the brand was really the thumbrint of you, which is like the different aspects. Like, okay, well, you like fitness, obviously, you're married to your business partner, and like, there's so it's basically what's frontman. So business for me is frontman. Like, everything has to relate to business. That's my center pillar. And so if it, if the, if the content doesn't directly relate to business, then I don't make it." Now, the way that I see the world affects how I do business. And so I will make, like, so basically that will get sprinkled in, and that will give the personality. But if I start making concept, basically, if the, if the, this all of a sudden becomes frontman, if I make relationship frontman, or I make philosophy frontman, that's not that's not my audience. Not that's not who I'm, that's not who I'm really going after. Again, this all relates back to the who, which is, "Who do you want to attract?" I want to attract business owners. So, all business owners have business in common. Some business owners also like philosophy. Some business owners also want to talk about, you know, uh, being in business with your spouse. Some business owners also want to talk about the fact that they like, like investing themselves and getting in shape and things like that. But all business owners like business. And so, it's basically making sure that I'm keeping the main thing that attracts my primary avatar the main thing. I will still sprinkle these pieces in. Like, I'll still make jokes during my content. I'll still share "Never skip dessert" or whatever, but it's, but like, it's business. Does that make sense? >> This is something that I had to navigate. So, it's a great question.

>> So, whenever you put new up there, um, like when do you decide to open up your niche? Um, because I coach coaches, and it's a very, uh, ultra-competitive niche, and we're doing about 2 million a year. Like, to get to 10, and I lead this thing at my church where, like, I help other business owners, and like, it really lights me on fire. Like, if I could work with kingdom business owners, like I would love that. Is is there ever a wise time to open it up? Because I, I feel like 2 million is where we've been capped for like the last two years. >> I genuinely don't think that you're capped because you're too niched out. >> Just to be clear. >> Yeah. >> Because I mean, fundamentally, all you have to do is ask the question, okay, >> I'll put it this way. Is there a version of your business that could exist that would get, uh, basically would eat up other people's businesses? Like, if you think about the number, so I used to think about this all the time with Gym Launch, right? So like, Gym Launch is is a much smaller, gyms are a much smaller niche than what you're in, in terms of total headcount and ob, and probably total revenue, honestly. And that business did almost 40 million a year. Um, and so I would wake up every day and I would think, every time I'd see an ad from some kid in his mom's basement that took an SMMA course on how to generate leads and they're like, "Gym owner, start with them, right? They're simple, right? Free fitness challenge." Um, I would think the fact that he's able to run ads means that I need to eat him. And that means that I was like, "Man, there's probably a hundred agencies that are selling five customers a month. I was like, "Just in the small ones?" I was like, "Shit, that's 500 sales a month that I should be having." And so, like, the market is so much bigger than we give it credit for. And so, the reality is like, and I, I just basically would erase that from your mind. Like, until the thing is is like, and I, I, I, I go nuts thinking about this, but like, and we weren't even gyms. We were micro gyms. And we also didn't work with yoga, Pilates, Spin. We

Were literally just micro facilities that did before and after transformations. That's it. That was the whole niche. Nothing like nothing outside of that. But if you were in that niche, I could make it I could make it rain for you, right?

And so, in my opinion, the hard answer is probably that like you have to be better. Like, real, real is that you have to be better because there's so many other people who are selling. It's like it's highly competitive. Going broader is not the answer. It's being better. And like I will repeat this theme because I got it from Estra Kathy. So you guys are you guys are you know, Jesus folk. Um, he said we should never desire to be bigger. We should desire to be better, and if we are better, our customers will demand that we grow.

And so, us as entrepreneurs, a lot of times it's like we have our goals. So it's like, I want to hit this revenue mark. I want to hit this revenue mark. And basically, we try to grow rather than try to be better and then allow growth to occur as a natural consequence. And like I would say, like, in terms of long-term, like big business lessons that have taken me a long time to learn, like really internalizing that, it's easy to say, sounds nice to the ears, but like, really internalizing that is what will separate you.

That's good. I got one more, one more question for you. Um, and just for the context, right? You said if you go back in time, make Gym Launch 10k a year. So I'm, I'm kind of in this this new building phase of like, I'm, I'm just going to make my product 10k a year, honestly. Go big head, long tail with it. So like, what were like the two to three like specific things that you would like definitely implement into Gym Launch's model back then like with your knowledge now to actually make people like renew year-over-year?

Yeah. Okay. I got to figure out where my contingency is. What it was something that I wanted to talk about. So, what, what everyone, in my opinion, what you want to do and school is going to very quickly be able to facilitate this. So I'm really excited about that. You have one-time value and then you have ongoing consumable value. All right. And I think the big issue, this is my opinion, um, in the information education space is that we try, we have one, we have one thing here that we try to bill for both. And so we're like, okay, well, I can get someone to say yes to $30,000, whatever. And because they can't pay that today, I'm going to spread it over a year and I'm going to deliver all the one-time value upfront. And then they're still making payments of $25,000, you know, or $2,500 a month, uh, month three, month four, five, month six. But the problem is the value. So think about like this, value is going like this. But this is price, and this is where people cancel. Value. And so when you when you sell them initially, they're like, $2,500 bucks, which is my first payment. Look at the difference between price and value. I'm stoked. This is great. But the day after you learn how to run Facebook ads, when you buy something to learn Facebook ads, the value of the content teaching you Facebook ads descends to zero. There's no additional value, right?

And so this is why, in my opinion, this is where I think the industry should go or will go, or if I started over again, this is what I would do. Is you have one-time value that you need to be really clear about. So this is a lot of times this is going to be the education, right? Um, for the most part, this is this is the entirety of this, right? This is the education, the checklist, the tools, the blueprints, the whatever, right? Now, this usually has a lot of value because you're teaching someone something, a skill that's very important, and they're going to have that skill forever. It's a one-time payment for an ongoing permanent value increase for them. But all this stuff, so you've got community, right? People consume that on a monthly basis. There's uh calls, right? That they consume on a monthly basis. Uh, for us, like, for example, we did a boiler room, which is something that we did, uh, for gyms, which was, um, we would train their sales staff. And so we would drill them every day. So we basically run their sales meeting for them every morning to increase the close rates at the gym. They didn't want to do it, nor were they good at it. If we could increase the closure at the gym, they'd make more money. They'd stay, right? It's consumable. Um, uh, we had ads, which for us was consumable because I would spend $50 grand a month testing ads in like 10 representative markets. I would take the winners and then I would give I would license those winners to a thousand locations. So there was zero cost in that besides the $50k, and then everything after that was gravy, right? And so that was why it was such a high profit margin business, or still is.

Um, and so the idea here is if you put on a on a sheet, what's the one-time value that I deliver, and then what's the ongoing value? And if you were to only do this, only price this in a way that most people are like, wow, just these things alone are worth X. This becomes your ongoing price, and this becomes your upfront. And so that is the concept of big head, long tail. But what you want to do is you want to make sure that what is being built on a regular basis that is ongoing value is ongoing value. The things that you build one time are one-time value. And so then then you can create that discrepancy. So rather so so probably for most of these, quote, you know, the coaching education businesses, instead of saying, okay, I'm going to sell you something for $30,000, it's $2,500 a month, it might be, it's $10k upfront, then $500 a month, but then no one cancels, right?

And so then you just play with how do I liquidate, you know, cost to acquire? And the thing is, this is where the patience of like, if I did this all over again, like the business model that gets fastest to $20 million isn't necessarily the one that gets fastest to $100 million because you might have this price, the old pricing model, which skyrockets to $20 million a year or whatever, but then like you have a really hard time passing because churn starts eating away at you. And so you're like, shoot, I need to sell more, I need to sell more, but it's really tough, especially in a niche, to sell more, right? Whereas if you're not losing the customers, then the first year you do, you know, eight, the next year you do, you add another eight on top, you're at 16, third year you're at 24. You're like, oh, actually, by year three, I'm a little bit above what the other one was. But the first one, you're at 20, and you think you're hot [ __ ] because you're beating the other guy who's lower ticket, right? But year four, all of a sudden, this guy's now at 32, and you're still stuck at 20. You're questioning your life, and everybody hates you, right? But this guy's like, "Man, the price to value for my stuff is is through the roof." Does that make sense? And when you want to sell something else, you have this massive distribution of people who love you, and your brand, your reputation are all great because you delivered something really valuable, and you charged for it. And then you live something, let's be honest, less valuable, but then you charge appropriately. Does that make sense? Yeah. So, this allows you to have basically price here, price, and then it drops to here for your ongoing. And so, you still always have the delta. This is how I think about it. Yeah, that's super helpful. I never had like the discrepancy between the one-time and the ongoing value. I'll try to bunch the ongoing with the $6K ticket price, but now I'm going to go.

Right. And so, one thing I think is again, a mistake that most people make. I mean, myself included, I made this mistake. Um, I think it's the vast is how most people do this in in this business is, um, they, they take it and they spread the the payments over a year or some arbitrary amount of time. I would rather say like, I want to be very clear. You're paying this for this, and that for that. And so, if you need a payment plan, we're going to front, like, it's I'm not spreading over a year. Like, you need to pay this off as fast as possible because that's what you're paying for. And I'm maybe doing you a favor. Like, I'll split pay it, I'll three pay it, or whatever. And that might mean that the ticket price, like, and here's the funny thing is that everyone here knows this who's in in the high ticket world. You sell something for $30,000. You're not collecting 30. You collect however many payments your churn is times. It's like, okay, yeah, but we churn at 25% a month, and we're our price point's $2,500 bucks. So really, it's $10K. That's what you're actually making. So whatever you claim versus what you make are two very different things. And so if that's really what you're making, then maybe you just charge seven and you get way more people to say yes. Because the thing is is when you have a $30K price point, you still have to make the $30K sale, but you're not even collecting 30. It's like the worst of both. It's like you have a lower conversion because the price is high, but you're not even collecting on the low conversion. And so it's like, sell at seven, maybe, and then let's say the churn on the $500 is, I don't know, whatever, 4%. Right? And so now all of a sudden, it's 25. You're getting 25 months at $500. So you get $125 on the back, seven on the front. Now you're at $195 in LTV. And because you charge seven upfront instead of trying to confront, uh, a $30K price point, you might sell two or three times as many. And now your EPCs go up 6x because you had you tripped you doubled LTV, but you might also one and a halfx conversion or double conversion. So now you 4xed EPCs in terms of your earnings per click or your conversion. What each each person is worth to you. This is in my opinion the better way to run the business. Most people just don't do it, and maybe in five years they'll find this video. And

Is that what made Gym Launch sellable?

No. What made Gym Launch sellable was that, um, I did nothing in it, and it was very consistent, and we had multiple forms of acquisition. And so the, so we had, I think, I think we had, I don't think I'm under anything to prevent me from saying this. I think we had about 6% churn monthly, um, at like $4,000 a month. So, very, very big price point, very low churn, relatively speaking. Now, the thing is, is in the PI world, 6% churn is horrendous. Um, and so I had to basically paint the picture, which was that, did you know that 30% of gyms go out of business every year? And I mean, they're like, oh, I didn't know that. I was like, right. So no matter what, structurally, a third of gyms go out of business because it's a tough business in general. And so the good news of that also is that every year, another 30% enter the market, and so we can stay at this place, and we can sell all the new gyms that come in, and that means that this business will just, you know, continue to maintain. And then the opportunity for growth is going to come from, you know, some of the other things that I had already like planted seeds for that were going to be down the line to increase LTV.

Great.

I just want to say that's beautiful, and that's like exactly what I needed. So thank you. I'm ready to like go home and work. So.

Yeah.

See you guys.

For real.

Yeah, that was clutch. Thank you.

Cuz with a coaching business, you answered my question that I've been asking for like 6 months. What is the end goal?

To me.

Yeah.

You've been asking me for 6 months.

No, not you.

Check your DM.

Myself.

He's like, I have tagged you every single day.

It's every day.

Story post.

Yeah. Thank you.

Oh, good. Okay, great. Sweet.

Could you like expand on like the boiler room selling for like like a minute or two? Cuz like what I'm picturing is like maybe like I have like my savage sales buddy who runs a like a low ticket community. Maybe like partnering him and having him come on and train the agency owners.

Yeah. Yeah. So, I'd have my head of my head of sales, or it was either my head of sales or one of my top sales guys who just like wanted the opportunity to give back, but like I was like, I need you to still sell. And so, this was like a way for him to like, kind of like let the let the steam out, but then still, you know, stay on track. And I think it actually sharpened his sword a little bit too. Whenever you teach, you get better at it yourself. Um, and so, uh, they would do a boiler room. We had one in the morning, one in the afternoon because it depended, you know, different different time zones and whatnot. And then it was open mic, so anybody paid, I think, um, for us because the way that we had pricing, like I think it was an added added fee. And I think I think for context, I think it was like $200 bucks a month, um, as an add-on. And the goal, like that's not a huge profit driver for us. The goal was like, we just want, like, we know that if people do this, then the likelihood that they stay is higher because they're focused on selling. And fundamentally, like, if I looked at everything across all gyms, the guys who can close make money because you can send as many leads through the front door as you can, but if someone can't close, like there's not a lot to do, right? And so, um, we basically just run them through a daily sales training. And so, the guys would come on, we'd role play, we'd and we'd basically just drill them on like, okay, I need to think about it. I need to talk to my husband. This program isn't for me. I don't like broccoli. Um, I don't have my credit card on me. I want to like, just you just drill them.

Yeah. So like boiler room objection handling, just once a day practice.

But like being really like, we talked during lunch, but like, like really teaching them how to say it, not wowing them, but training them. And that's a big, there's a big difference there. Like getting them to say it the right way every time.

Yeah. So not like I just drop like a word track and like, oh, that sounds great, but like

No, yeah, they'll all be like, this guy's so good at sales. Of course, I mean, like, I could do it, right? But to get someone to actually learn how to sell, it's like you have to get them to speak the same way every time it when when the same objection comes up.

You don't want them to think about what they're going to say when they get a question. They need to already, they need to breathe it. Okay. Useful. Sweet. Cool. H

Did you have other, um, topics that came up?

Yeah. Well, you know, we can talk about like the normal things like

No, but we've kind of already talked about them. Like, get some more traffic, make make some videos, send some emails, do a post, find a partner.

Do more of it. Why don't we talk about the, you had, you had your question about, um, what content to put in the paid group versus the free group, right? So, why don't we talk about that, and then you had pricing over time as kind of like the sub-section question of that. So, why don't we hit on that for a little bit for you guys also? If I talk too fast, tell me. So, I want to make sure you get it. Cool.

Okay. Um, okay. So big picture, if we're thinking about content overall, hopefully the theme of all the stuff we've talked about here is like, I want as much promotion as possible to be public so that it promotes your stuff. And then within the community, I want it to be quality. So think volume externally and think quality internally. Obviously, you want external to be quality too, but like, if you had to, if you had to pick one theme of both, public is going to be volume because the thing is is that to the masses, it's not volume. Like, no one like, no one here is consuming 500 pieces of content for me a week. Zero people are. But I make 500 pieces of content a week because maybe you guys consume one or two. Cool. And then that directs you towards something else when when the time comes, right? So publicly, we want the volume. Privately, we want, think about it this way. Everyone has access to information. You have Google. You can find without whatever you want. Our job is to curate the information to make the absolute highest value per second, right? And so like this is going to be an ism and I'm going to drive into the [ __ ] ground, but like, it's value per second, not seconds of value. It's about how much, how can I squeeze and pack the like word concision, using fewer words to say the same thing, giving clearer, simpler analogies, simpler stories that drive the points home. And so if the question is, what do I do in the free group versus the paid group? Being very real, honestly, you like the quality in both will be the same. You just will arbitrarily draw a line and say, if you want more like that, essentially, you go here. And what happens is people will consume that and be like, I want more of this because it's so good, and then they will go here and be like, this is awesome, this is also good. Does that make sense?

Yeah. Okay. So that's, so that's fundamentally. Now, if you have some big sexy, like makes a lot of money thing, then it makes probably more sense to put it here. But you still want time to value, like how quickly they can consume something and get value from it in both communities to be very high. It just might be that the outcome that they get from consuming the quick value here is higher than the quick value here. But either way, they will get value quickly. Does that make sense?

Okay. So then the second piece that you talked about, um, was pricing over time. So, I mean, I think what Anime Shreds did was really good, and we noticed it internally. Is I think we probably add that to our launch checklist if we have one for people, which is like, launch at half or a founder rate. Uh, and then as soon as you have your promo finished, bump it up significantly. And the reason for that is one, it'll drive a ton of urgency to get people in. But the second kind of sneaky effect is that they know, like you were saying earlier, you had that coaching group or whatever said, like, if you leave, you can't come back. Well, the alternative to that is you can leave, but you come back and pay twice as much. So, you can leave whenever you want.

And we're going to make it. When I saw that, I was like, that's so smart that I was like, I'm going to put that. If you start with a lower price, and then you make your price higher, when you go to cancel, I'm going to make it obvious that you lose that price so that it's like, are you sure you want to cancel? If you want to join in the future, it'll be this price, right? So, if you use the strategy, I'm going to make it even better.

By tweaking the UI. So like, it's it's so good.

Yeah, it's great.

Cuz also he used that as a scarcity point. He was like, at this time, the price is doubling. The sales just went right up at that point. Like, and he squeezed everyone across. It was like the ultimate reason to join and then the ultimate reason to stay. It's so simple, but like, really good.

Yeah, elegant.

And so in terms of pricing, like that's how I would go. Phase one, phase two, and then if there's a phase three, it's okay at like, this is where you do the math. You you bump it up to 30 and you take a look at it and you see if if EPCs are good, then you keep it there. And so I would I would encourage you to edge it up and keep the math there. Um, and then just do math at every level. And as soon as it starts to go down, then you just you pop it back to where it was and you leave it because then you know, that way you don't have to guess. Yeah, I'm a big fan of just knowing rather than guessing. Did that help with your questions though? I want to make sure.

Cool.

Okay. Um, so that was a big one. What was uh

Well, I was just thinking we've kind of covered all the major pieces.

Yeah.

Quite a lot of the time towards the end.

Yeah.

People just start asking like what they really want to know.

Yeah.

And it kind of and a lot of people say that that's the best time actually.

So think about what you guys really want. Okay, you

Hiring related stuff.

Hiring delegating low stuff.

Just delegating low leverage tasks so I can focus on like

Be specific.

Well, for me, I know that if I spend 100% of my time on just YouTube making YouTube videos, I can get to like 100k or even 150k a month. But right now, it's like 15 to 20% of my time. So, just everything else.

But what is that? Well, building the modules, delivering the product, um, calls, appearing on calls.

Just everything about community.

Because you kind of need to do all of those things.

Yeah.

Yeah. But like there's a lot of stuff like, you know, maybe emails, like sorting priorities, like calendar, all of those things like could be outsourced. So like, I'm wondering in what order like do I hire so I can basically spend 100% of my time on the thing I have the most expertise in.

Well, building out the modules is mostly a one-time thing, and then once that's done, that'll be off your plate. The emails are 100% outsourceable. There are plenty of copywriters who can write emails for you, and I'd recommend taking somebody who's in the community who knows your voice and can give you like a good V1 draft, and then you just tweak it and send it. The calls, you want to basically just show up. Like that's, I mean, more or less, that's kind of how we run this. Like I show up, we do the Q&A, and then I move on with my life, and I treat it just like it's a meeting, and I do it on my meetings day because I do meetings on Mondays, and so we do it on that day because it's the least disruption for how I work. And so if you have, so I, I'm going to have a really big piece about this coming out soon, but basically the difference between maker and manager time. So if you have deep work, that's what I consider maker time. And a lot of people in any organization, you got copywriters, video editors, coders, like they have they have to just like get really deep into a project, and you want to minimize time on meetings as as much as possible so that they can work. Basically, when they're on a meeting, they're not working. There are managers, which is the opposite, which is for them being on meetings is working, right? Uh, and coordinating between things and talking to vendors and, uh, I mean, like sales guys, customer support, like those are those are people who like, when they meet is when they work. And so those are both fine. And the problem is when they intersect. And so managers start interrupting makers from making. And the problem is that makers only have 14 time blocks a week. You've got one morning block and one afternoon block, and that's it. Like, I'm sure when you're making a YouTube video, it's not like you can't split it between two meetings, right? Like you need a whole big chunk of time. Managers though can spread their time in 15-minute increments. And so they have 20 time slots a day, but a maker only has two. And if you take one maker slot up, it's like you just killed 1/14th of my week, right? And so there's a disproportionate cost for a manager compared to a maker when it comes to calendaring. Now, you're the entrepreneur, cuz you're like, how, why is this relevant for me? Is that you do both. And so what's been, I mean, like, if I had to bet, like my single greatest return on time habit that I have was that the first six hours of my day, since I was poor, has always been zero meetings. And it was just that, well, shoot, people started calling because I had brick and mortar, you know, gym. People started walking in at 5 a.m., right? So I was able to take, you know, like, lock my door to my office. Um, and I just was like, morning sessions, I don't, I don't participate in. But as of 10:00 a.m., I would then start working and being out there. So from 4 to 10 was my six hours every day. And then from then on, I just knew it was just fires. But that still allowed me to move the ball forward. So I only got a maker, like, basically five maker slots during the week, but then on Saturday, Sunday, I got four more. So I got nine blocks of time throughout the week that I could do like major big work. And so if you can look at orienting your calendar so that, I mean, now I only have one day, which is Mondays, where I do any coordination or any calls or anything, and the rest of my week is truly empty. Like, truly, I can show you my calendar. It's empty. And that takes time to get to. But that's because that's like the team knows that if I have an empty calendar, we make more money. And so for you, you have to try and push as much into that one day as you possibly can. That also means that if someone's like, "Hey, I've got this person that you should meet, and it's on a Wednesday in the afternoon, and it's one meeting." You just say, "No."

Yeah. I think I honestly have to do

But that's the only time I can make. Then you're like, "Then I guess we're not going to meet." I think I have to do the time study you suggested, like the timer every 15 minutes, cuz like, it's, you know, it's kind of hard to go in retrospect, like, where did the entire day go? Like, but like, you're working all day, but like, what was achieved?

Right?

Maker time. Like when you have a maker block, you know exactly what you're going to be doing. You have the one thing that you're working on, and sometimes it takes five blocks in a row to get that one thing done. Like, what the [ __ ] is the school games? Like, I'll bet you it took more than one maker play. I know it did. I'm saying.

And in terms of the people you're hiring, like especially at a small business scale, like do you, is it better to just hire somebody who can get the job decently done, or should I wait like until there's like a killer?

Um, that's a, that's a tough question. Um, I, it's a, it's a super tough question. I would say that it's gonna basically, you can, you can see the arbitrage between how much more you get back for the time, basically. So let's say we take, let's just do an example. Let's say you bring in a mediocre email writer. If the defic, the discrepancy between how good your emails are versus their emails, but the time you save not writing the email goes into YouTube, for example, if you can make up the trade, then it's worth doing.

Does that make sense? Yeah.

I think you would benefit the most from just a generalist person. So, someone who's a hardcore fan of yours, already emerging in the community, is already doing the stuff kind of for free, probably would be stoked to work with you, won't cost you too much money, and will learn everything as you go with you, and they'll just do everything that doesn't make sense for you to do. Probably like, you probably have a few customer support tickets or emails.

They'll do those.

I mean, Monty already does that for me, but

Oh, you already have someone?

The issue is that he's still in school, so it's like part-time basically.

Well, quit.

So, I probably need one more person.

Quit.

Just get him to quit.

Yeah, get him to quit.

He's 16.

Yeah, get him to quit.

Is that legal? Is that legal?

Um, I don't.

Yes.

Dude, you're going to learn so much more doing this [ __ ].

But his mom would kill me, I think.

Well, don't say don't blame it on him.

Yeah. Don't blame it on him. That's all.

Fight his farm.

Yeah.

David, y'all definitely need group onboarding though, ASAP, bro. That's like the next thing up for y'all. That's I I learned group onboardings from the first day one recordings. Y'all need those ASAP, bro.

Yeah. Another thing is, uh, you could get an EA. Like, if you have some like tedious tasks, like when I got my executive assistant, life saves so much time on my way. If it's just like tedious things, or a little bit simple. I don't know if you, you probably have like a bunch of stuff that's like simple stuff that you have to do that you could just pay somebody like

You know, like offshore talent, like, you know, anywhere from like six to eight bucks an hour to do that.

Yeah. David, do you have a setter? Like anybody in your DMs?

Well,

Bro, you need that ASAP, too, bro. A setter in your DMs and on group onboarding calls, and your your community is about to, your churn will go way down, and you'll get a lot of

Would I give somebody my school password to go?

I mean, you probably set up a mini chat account or GHL, like one of these other people.

You're talking about, yeah, we're talking about in your, uh, social media.

Yeah. Yeah.

Like everything from YouTube to the about page.

Because it's YouTube sales.

Do you don't have any following on social media? Well, everything else on YouTube basically.

Like no Instagram, no nothing like that.

I mean, not really.

Are you collecting any phone numbers?

Oh, no.

So, even in your free school, you don't ask.

The most simplest funnel possible.

These younger generation, man, they don't do this [ __ ].

I mean, like people are telling me to add email, right? And like eventually I probably have to add it, but like, I like my simple funnel, you know? So

Dude, I didn't send emails for nine years.

Jim said no emails.

Wow. I, I say that to point out at the extreme of like, whenever people are like, you have to, like, you don't have, like, there's no

Did you collect them?

Yeah. I mean, I collect them because I like, I felt like I had to, but like, I, I did nothing with them. Like, truly nothing. Then eventually I hired someone, and they just sent emails, and I just like was like, I don't want to read them. Like, I'll kill everyone.

How many more years do you have in school?

Uh, two in high school, and then, I mean

Well, he's your bottleneck because he's school is your bottleneck. Okay. School is my bottleneck for school.

Yeah. Your constraint. Yeah. For sure.

Pick one. [Music]

If you're going to get, if you're going to get into entrepreneurship, then like, whatever. You know what I mean? I mean, I, I try not to to tell people to quit high school, but like, I just don't think it like

So, you think it's worth it to quit?

It's just, it's just the system is so, like, what are you learning?

Yeah. I mean,

Right.

Not much.

Yeah. Right. You're like, "So, I want to not learn a lot of stuff so that I can learn not much for most of my time." I get it. Like, I mean, I, it's very tough. I get that. But it's still like,

Yeah, if you're going to go to med school, or like be a lawyer, or be an investment banker, or work at Goldman Sachs, or like maybe you were going to do computer science at Stanford, then sure, stay in school. But if you're not going to do that, it's useless.

If you're going, if you're going to entrepreneurship, then like, there is no degree that's required.

Okay. Yeah, just a thought.

Even a business degree is crap.

Oh, yeah. It's irrelevant.

Yeah.

So, Robbie with scaling with systems, you see what he's doing with scaling school?

Basically, he, he's locked a bunch of his courses. He has an audible style, so people can come in and if every month that they stay, they get other credit to unlock another course.

Yeah.

Yeah. We're going to let you do that.

That's except we're not even going to do credits. You'll just, you can just unlock a course based on a membership length.

Yeah. Simple.

Another, uh, question I had was, let's say there's an entry fee, um, to get into the program, like $500, and then it's $97 a month, and they, and someone goes to churn, and then it's like, if you churn, you have to pay the entry fee to come back in.

People want that. We'll do it.

I have a, I have a similar, we have a similar problem with delegation. So for the promos and for all the engagement that Justin has to do in the community, it's hard to find time to like balance both of the both those two, both of those things. And really the big bottleneck is deciding if we're going to have a videographer with us all the time, or like hire someone on a project for project basis. What do you think works better out of the two?

Um, honestly, I think he just needs a videographer that he likes a lot. I got Sam Lasaska over there. That's right. And he's with me all the time.

Yeah. Well, it's, it's been the most difficult part. Like, we've been searching for a videographer for like, I mean, basically years at this point.

Probably a year.

I mean, it's not that hard of a role.

Feels like, feels like. Yeah. But, um, but yeah, it's, it's cuz all of them, they just, they end up dropping off really, really quickly. I don't know. Maybe they just, they they don't like, maybe it's a fit thing. Could be that. But like, it's been really difficult to find all the roles for sure. Someone is who's going to stick with us, travel.

What made you want to do it?

I feel like anyone in this room would want to do it.

Such a G.

There's so much value just being with Alex every day.

There'll be people in your audience.

But does he not want someone following him with a camera?

No. No. I mean, we, we definitely would prefer that. No, but him. It's him who's

He wants someone following us, but like, it's, it would be Thomas, but like, Thomas isn't, he's not a videographer. Like, he's, he's a different role entirely.

So he wants someone to follow on.

He wants someone who like can like have good banter. We'll push him sometimes. Like someone who's like

A friend.

Gang.

Yeah. Have he made a post about it?

Oh yeah, we made, we do a hiring post basically every single month.

Why doesn't he just learn how to use a camera? Oh, that, that's actually what I used to do at one point.

So why the [ __ ] you don't you pull out a camera?

I could. Yeah.

Yeah, you're already friends. If that's the element, and you know how to use a camera, I mean, [ __ ]

Really?

I mean, the only thing that's I'm still like thrown off by is like zillions of people have come in, and I'll bet you that many of the people who've applied would have been a fit. So, I just, it might just be a weird hiring process you guys have. I mean, when we when we run our things, actually, how did you come in?

I applied for Leila's videographer.

And I was like, you're with me.

Um, yeah. Should he had Jason?

I agree on the feeling part though. If someone's going to be following you around all the time, like

The vibe is more important than the skill.

Yeah. Than anything.

The skill is not the thing. It's just the like vibe of having them with you all the time.

Daniel asked me on the last question in the interview. He was like, "Well, what's what's like, because I was telling him about, I was like, "Listen, I'm going to be like, "Hey, we're going to do this big thing and you're going to set up and then I'm going to be like, "Nah, just kidding." And it's going to happen all the time. And then also, uh, like, you're going to have plans and then you're going to have to cancel them last minute because we go late and like, basically, it's just going to be chaos and I can be in a bad mood and I can be tough sometimes. And I just like painted that picture. He was like, "Got it. I'm here for it." But, um, he's like, "What do you like, I'm really experienced?" I think you were like, I'm a really high-caliber videographer.

What do you need a professional for?

Yeah. What do you need a professional for? Is what he asked me. And he's like, what's the most important thing for you to me? And I was like, like, I really thought about it and I was like, that you like me. That's really it. Did, did you, start off? Sorry, what was your name?

Daniel.

Daniel. Did you start off like absolute pro with cameras?

No, I had to learn how to use cameras for.

Sorry. When you started, when you started, started with with Alex, I'm referring to, when you started with Alex, were you already good?

Oh, yeah.

No. So I, I say that because like, I'll bet you that there's like people in that list, if you have had thousands of people apply who are videographers, like there's definitely somebody in there who's an exceptional videographer. And so for me, I honestly like, I am, I am grateful that Daniel has the skill that he has and can like edit bangers and do all sorts of stuff. Like, he's a weapon. He can do lots of things. But like, for me, if his skill was half of what it was, but but I like him as much as I like him, that would have been enough. This is just like, your skills are just bonus for me. Um, but it was just like, we have such a sick vibe on the on the media team. I think we have a sweet, like, the team's awesome. Um, and so like, I've had a videographer in the past that I, and nothing wrong with the guy. I just like wasn't, I didn't look forward to, you know what I mean? It was just like work. Because I'd like, okay, sit down and like, everyone records, stop. And it came out in the, came out in the footage. And so like, I have to look forward to. There should feel, I should feel no friction or no hesitation to having Daniel around. Like, I'm not worried if he's around. If I'm saying, so I don't have to edit myself. Um, and like, that is number one. You've got, he's got to like me, and I've got, because it's both, it's both ways, because she like, if you don't like someone, you can capture it very differently. On some level, like, you can make someone look very different if you don't like them. And, um, and so it has to be both directions. Like, both people have to have to get along with each other.

That, that's probably something we haven't really looked at. We, because sometimes we want like really, really nice stuff. It's like movement level, you know, with the scrub motion shots and whatnot. And obviously when we look at the application,

I prioritize liking a person. And the thing is, is like, I'll bet you if there was something that were like, "Hey, can you learn Adobe something?" You'd be like, "Sure." I like, it'll take me a couple weeks, but I'll figure it out. And like, if you have that type of person, it's like, I just, it's so much harder to find someone you like than it is to find somebody who has the base skill. At least in my opinion, with this role. So I would just, I would prioritize someone that Justin likes, and then that's it. And then from there, like the other skills.

I don't remember where you mentioned this. I was watching some of your content. Said you've been kind of made a system for how when someone's filming you, they're nodding, they're bringing you your nicotine, and all that kind of stuff.

So,

Yeah, all this. I mean, Daniel's always got nicorette, caffeine, water, Gatorade.

He's got, he's a, he's full full service, um, at all times. He's always ready.

Yeah. Just putting that out there.

Oh, yeah. No, it's super helpful. And like, after every, every recording session, it's kind of like on a foul shot for basketball. Like everyone, everyone pounds afterwards. Like, it's just like, we always do that. Like, while, like you guys can't see it, cuz you guys are looking at me, but I can see them, and like, they're nodding the whole time while we're filming because they know that that, because when we thought activities, right? What are the things? Cuz so Caleb, who runs the whole team, he was obviously hire one, and so he had the camera first, and that was the first time I had a VRF that I really liked. I was like, "Oh man, like Caleb's cool as shit." Like, this like, this feels, this isn't, this is easy, right? And I was like, "What makes it?" And then so then Caleb obviously moved up, and then he stopped being at the filming session. So we had, you know, two or three guys there at the filming sessions, and I was like, "Man, this feels heavy. Like, what's like, why does this feel different?" And so then we had to backtrack and be like, "What, what does he do that is different than what other people do?" Other people were like, "The vibe is like, vibe, [ __ ], I don't care. What does he do?" And what he did was he would nod while I was while I was going. And after every filming thing, he was like, "That was [ __ ] awesome." Like, sick. That was so dope. And then he also listened and he had really engaging questions that he'd be like, "So, how does that relate to this or how does that relate?" So, the follow-up questions were great, and they could slice that up, and that made for really good content because the, the questions he had was questions that the audience had. And so, it's just looking at like, what are all the little micro things, and then you make that into a checklist. That's why I think most people can't teach anything is because they don't get it down to like, what are the behaviors? And so now the team, I mean, the whole team knows that when they film, it's like a whole thing.

Did you like buy out a bunch of people or like

No, we do so we, so I'll tell you the quick process, and then we'll we'll move.

to a different topic. But um, we do the big application, gave a big raw file, told everybody they had 48 hours to submit, uh, the raw for that. That way, everybody's working off the same thing. Because if everybody can just pull from whatever, then the quality of the content is going to be a huge factor. Whereas if everyone pulls from the same raw, the quality of the editor is going to be the thing that shines through. And so, um, this is from the editing perspective. If we're doing videographers, then yeah, it's going to be way more about vibe, like in terms of our, our dynamic. Um, but for editing, uh, then they would submit. And so from 1,200, we got 60 submissions. Just to give you an idea, it was like 5% of people actually submitted.

Riley, did you come from from one of our contests?

>> Uh, no, I was reached out to, but it was pretty similar process, like applied, >> gave me raw file, edited.

>> Yeah. And so then they turn it in and then, um, you know, Caleb would look at all of them and be like, "These three guys are sick." And then I'll interview those guys and then however many of them are cool out. That's fundamentally how we do it. Like we test for skill for editing. We test for skill and then we test for vibe because it's way easier to go like from 1,200 down to a much smaller with from skill. Um, from a vibe perspective.

Um, what was the process for you for videographer stuff?

>> I did like four interviews, actually five interviews. Um, one with Caleb, two with Frank, and then one with you.

>> Okay.

>> And then the one with you was intense. I was like, "This is a test. Everything's a test."

>> You had like one really tall chair and one small chair. He's like, "Pick one."

>> I was like, "I'm a small chair." Hilarious.

>> That wasn't a test.

>> Yeah. Yeah. At this point. Um, so yeah, hopefully that gave you a little bit insight.

>> Yeah, for sure. We're also insulting.

>> Yeah, it's really all about the chair sizes is what matters. Yeah. But also like, I needed somebody who wasn't going to be trying to compete with me, you know what I mean? Um, I just like, I don't, I didn't want that energy. I wanted somebody who's like super laid-back and Daniel's as laid-back as they get.

>> Cool. Appreciate it.

>> Well, what's your favorite part of doing business now? And has that changed a lot over the past decade or however long you've been, how long you've been doing acquisition proper?

Um, I think my first deal that was not a company that I founded was 2009. So not that long. That's a rough.

>> All right. So do you still have the same joys of doing your business as you did then?

>> Yeah. I like, I like the king. American.

>> Yeah. Just I love, I like just business in general. I mean, I draw pictures about books about it all day. I like business. And so when we decided like, oh, we're going back to business, I was actually stoked because I didn't let make a guy. So like, finally, I just talk about what I want to talk business. Now, we were talking earlier about this, which is like, I, the challenge for me is talking about what is relevant for the audience in business. If I talk about what I'm talking about, like we got into a tiny bit of that and everyone appears like, yeah, this doesn't. So the things that I'm trying to work on right now, the things that I'm investing a lot of time into, are things that are completely irrelevant to everyone. And so the Q&A calls and stuff, as much as they are value add to you, they're equally valuable to me because it keeps me in touch with what everyone's struggling with so that I can make content about that and I can remember, oh yeah, this is this is what people were at 10,000 a month. Or I found this note. But I think I made a visa positive book was like, "Oh, this note was from for 13 years ago where I had a goal of $10,000 a month." And I was like, "Wow." Like, but I remember what it was like when I was writing that. Like, it was my goal. And so, um, the like the TL;DR for I think everyone here is like, staying in touch with the customer. I mean, we will probably quote the Paul Graham quote every single one of these, but you can solve every problem in your business by talking to your customer more. And so y'all are our customers. And so this keeps me in touch with like everything that that you guys are dealing with right now. And a lot of times it's like the first few hires, right? Like, how do I, how do I keep sales up while I also have to do this? And so the problem when you're like basically like 500,000 to maybe about 3 million is you have to work double time. You have to do your job and then you also have to do the next job. And it's just really tiring. But like, I don't know anyone who has gotten through that that doesn't like either you have a bunch of capital that you raised and or you have it your have it on your own and you can basically move yourself up the ladder knowing that you're going to start with with people off the bat that are on payroll and you just know you can quickly, you know, revenue out of it, or you have to just work double time. And that's why it's so hard in the beginning, you have no leverage.

>> And I have a second question. What was your reasoning behind making your books like they are? They're not your standard business book. Bright colors, big weird shapes.

>> Yeah. Well, I wanted to make it, I mean, Sam and I jammed on this in the very beginning. Was one of the main reasons that we were so aligned with school is like, I just want to make business fun. And so for me, I wouldn't have used the word fun. I would have used word used easy. But like for me, I would say that school tries to do both. But for me, I've tried to make business as simple as humanly possible for for everyone. Um, and that's part of like the mission for daily for acquisition.com, make real business education accessible for everybody. And so the accessible part is like, how do I break it down so that it's both interesting, which is why there's stories involved in them, but also such that like we had the drawings that we had earlier about the community, we had the price thing is like, can we, can I, can I visualize this in a way that makes it really easy to understand? And that forced me to level up my understanding of this stuff because, um, like the whole leads book, um, is actually the third book I wrote. Well, not including Gym Launch Secrets, but like the book that's about to come out, the third book, not about to come out, but that will come out. Um, was the first book I wrote, and it's actually like the sickest money-making [ __ ] that I know. And then I was like, damn, they need leads to do this. And so I was like, okay, so I'll write a book on, you know, advertising and stuff. I was like, "Shit, if they don't have an offer, then the lead, the all the advertising stuff isn't going to work." So then I was like, "I have to write a book on offers." So I ended up having to write a book on offers and then having to write a book on leads so that I could get to the book that I ultimately wrote first, which is the book that's going to come out. Um, but trying to use fifth grade language or below throughout all of the books challenged me to explain things simply to everyone. And so it's like advertising. It's just letting people know about your stuff. That's all it is. It's like you can let strangers know, you can let friends know, you can do it one to one, you can do one to many. That's it. Those are the combinations. And so, but like that little framework took me six months to figure out. I've never seen the core four used anywhere else. But you can't break it because it's just it's true. Like it's one to one, one to many, strangers, friends. That's it. There's no, there's no other way to think through it. And then and so like I spent a lot of time trying to simplify it to that level so that it's unbreakable. Like the value equation, like it's either going to make it like you got to make it stuff faster for people, you got to make it easier for them to do, or you have to decrease the risk associated with the purchase. If you have all, if you have something that's immediate, that's easy, and that has that's completely risk-free, then you have something that's endlessly valuable. And so like that's fundamentally like if we're reversing value and like even thinking through that, I was like, it took me forever to think of the third variable, which is risk. I was like, how do I, like that is like risk intrinsically affects price. If you go to a surgeon that's had 10,000 surgeries versus one that's on their first one out of medical school, he's priced significantly higher, even though it's the exact same thing. Why? Because the perceived risk associated with it that you don't get to what you want. And so, um, I wrote them the way that I would want to read them. And I hate most business books because I also think they're confusing. I think they're full of jargon. I think most of the times business people aren't good writers. And so, that's the tough part. And 99% of business books, at least in this space, are just lead magnets and are full of crap anyways. They're just sales letters. So, it's like 99% of that. And then you've got the true business people who get ghostwriters to write books because it takes so long to write a book. And then the books also fluff, but for a different reason. They just kind of like ramble out loud and they just basically cut chapters into it, a handful of stories and that's that's it. And I didn't want to write that either. I was like, well, if I were to make something that was more valuable than a course and then put it into a book format and then make it free, how would I do that? And that was basically figuring, I was like, okay, if I want to have the best brand in the space, what do I do? I look at what everyone else does, I make it better, and make it free. And I've done that in every business I possibly can. And then the fourth step is monetize another way. It's like, look what everyone else is doing, make it better, make it free, monetize another way.

>> That's great.

>> That's how I think about it. All right, I have one more tiny one then.

>> What's your favorite color if you want?

>> Color? Don't even think about it.

>> Well, let's pretend you thought about it.

>> I have it.

>> You've got an opportunity if you could. You don't want it?

>> Acquisition.com kind of has a color, doesn't it?

>> Yeah, we have purple.

>> Did you choose it?

>> Purple.

>> I just thought it was cool. It's like purple.

>> Isn't that the color of the book?

>> The purple. Yeah. Offers.

>> I don't really like, I don't like love purple. I just.

>> I was the guy who was like, just like I like all my logos I've had on like 99 designs. Like I don't like, I think like what creates the meaning behind it is the work. Like whatever shapes can be whatever. Like Google is a word that means nothing, but it now means everything because of what Google has done in terms of work. Like school is misspelled, but it's not going to be like it's what it's what we will create that will make the meaning behind school in my opinion. Is there one that you hate the least or that mean that like gives you the most emotional significance? Whatever the color a mirror is.

>> Mirror.

>> A mirror. Like what color is a mirror?

>> Silver.

>> Is it?

>> It is. Yeah. Um, it's kind of back to what you drew before, but knowing that you would have done like a big head long tail for Gym Launch at first, would you still have given a lot of attention to the ascension model behind it or would you just really just go hard on the acquisition?

>> I guess looking for some foresight.

>> Yeah. Yeah. No. Uh, heard. Well, the thing is is like, I sold a front, I sold a defined end program. So, the ascension was really just converting people into continuity. So more, it was it was really like, it wasn't ascension. It was really just a, I guess, I mean, it depends on how you want to define it, but I, I had a front end. Like I ran Gym Launch exactly how I ran my gyms because I knew that model worked. So I ran a six-week challenge. People would have a defined end thing. They'd lose X amount of pounds the next weeks and then I would sell them halfway through into a year-long membership. I credit the front end towards the membership. That was the deal. Worked exceptionally well. That was the game plan. And so Gym Launch was a 16-week program with a defined outcome. Halfway through we'd sell them into into a year. In that, like we ran the same playbook because I just knew that worked. That was all it was. I didn't get fancy with it. Yeah.

>> I think, uh, just like one thing about the Gym Launch thing, I've heard you talk about it in the past where you talk about like the power of like in-person events.

>> Yeah.

>> And how you like, you let other people bring other people, right? That weren't a part of it.

>> Correct.

>> That was for gyms.

>> That was for gyms. Okay. And so, um, do you think like, you know,

>> Just quick context, I, I love in-person events. That's like really like where before the pandemic, that's how I made most of my money was doing like event promotion, booking for artists. So I, I love live events. Do you think like there's like some viability and like coordinating live events for a community like, you know,

>> 100%. I mean, that's what the map is literally to facilitate people meeting up.

>> It's a huge request. People really want connection.

>> You know Ted Carr?

>> Yeah.

>> You guys know him? He's like a, he's a longtime power user of school. Pete just did one post in school community and he said, "I'm gonna do a meetup in in LA on this date at some Airbnb." It's happening. He chose the wrong date because it's happening today. Um, but there's a hundred people there and and many of them flew from Germany and [ __ ].

>> Yeah. There's like an insane desire to to hang out in person. I would say it's probably the most, the biggest desire.

>> And and if you were to do one for your community, like let's say one of us did like an in-person event, right? Which we we had just done one and we're about to plan another one for music money as well. Would it be like, do you do it like exclusive to members? Do you let people bring friends? Do you like pitch, uh, you know, the community at the end? Like how, you know, how would Alex Warmoth you know, throw an event for his community to kind of get the most out of it?

>> I mean, I'd say when I ran it for the gyms, because that probably be the similar size, um, they could, they could bring people and I like because for me it was just lead gen. And so referrals are the best leads anyway. So, I'd be like, "Hey, if you have dope friends who you think would really like this community, like, like the best conversions happen at live events in terms of like life, lifetime stick." And so if you just, as a side, like a side example, like if you, if you sell someone over the phone versus selling them at a one-day event or two-day event, the likelihood of refund, the long-term, um, retention, the likelihood that they refer somebody else is way higher from an in-person event compared to, um, like a sales phone call or something like that.

>> Absolutely. Yeah. And I think I'm feeling that from our first event, too. We had about 20 people who had bought in that weren't in the community before and it feels like they're here to stay. You know what I'm saying? So, you're in a, you're in a, you're in a business that thrives. It's con, I mean, like, it's, you're in music, like, it's one of those things that is almost meant to be consumed live in person. So, I'll bet you you have people who also even more in your community than others want that. But I would bet just for everyone here, like if you could facilitate some sort of in-person meetup, one, I think you'll get great content from it. Um, but you'll, like, you'll get great content. They'll become lifers. Like, all of those things will happen and I think they become like that core of the community. I mean, shoot, all the people that I basically every person that I've now met at these things, I, I'm like, oh, I, when I see them in the in the group or what I'm like, I, I'm disproportionately likely to like comment, post, or like.

>> Makes your community stronger digitally when you've got in-person relationships because now you know who that person is.

>> Yeah.

>> Right. Yeah.

>> There's like context to tone and like you can raz each other and things like that. It's like, oh, like these guys are tight or whatever.

>> Yeah.

>> When you did, when you did Gym Launch, you said that you don't do emails. Like you didn't do emails. How did you nurture your clients then? Like kept in contact with them.

>> Um, you mean leads?

>> Yeah.

>> I just got more of them.

>> Okay.

>> I'm being dead serious. Like, I mean, like, there were many things I probably should have done. I just, every time someone's like, "Do you want to start emailing?" I was like, "Uh, no." And I didn't want to give it to somebody else until eventually they were like, "Can we please hire someone to just do this?" And I just didn't look at it. I'm just, I'm so particular with written with written word. It's the, it's my primary way of communicating. It's like my, like people, despite the fact that everyone on the internet sees me on video, like my books are better in my opinion than anything I create, but it's also because I spend more time on them than anything else. And so when I see someone write, I'm like, "This makes no sense. This is completely unclear. Why do, like, why do you exist?"

>> Yeah, but also I think I kind of understand your question a bit and I'm kind of like almost in this way because if you've got something that's working, if you've got something that's working that isn't email and you can just keep increasing the volume of what you're doing, then who cares?

>> And that was it. We just kept spending more money, kept making more money. So, I was like, I could do that or I could make more ads and crush. Yeah. I mean, honestly, I think Sam and I are so aligned with this, which is just like, find something that works, do as much of it as you possibly can, and eliminate everything else in your life that's not that. And that also includes all your personal life stuff. Like, like this was a theme of the whole last talk. If you guys all heard it, we talked for like an hour, maybe more on this one topic of like, everything that you have like cooking, cleaning, laundry, getting your car filled up with gas, like all of this stuff. If you know that you can make more money with your time than it than it costs you to get someone else to do that, then you should do that. And then you'll be amazed at how much extra time you have.

>> Yeah. If you're cleaning your house or preparing your meals, that's going to be the best thing you learn from this event is to just get someone else to do that. Cleaning and meal prep and groceries is like the lowest hanging fruit.

>> So I calculated this just on based on US averages. So just the big three, which is laundry, cleaning, and food related, those together are 96 hours a month on average. It's like I just found you two and a half full work weeks of time. And also that doesn't include switching costs of like the cost of time of like cleaning up, like cleaning up after you eat and

>> Or thinking about when you're going to do it.

>> And what you're going to eat and groceries and what you're going to buy and putting them back in the shelves and taking the bags out, like all that [ __ ].

>> Yeah. Um, I was going to ask you if you were to change and do something different, uh, instead of just going for more, what would that be? And would that be anything at all?

>> That would be different in your lead generation, like without doing emails and so on.

>> Would you have changed that if?

>> Even if I went back in time?

>> No. Honestly, I mean, yeah, like what we did worked well.

>> It's just return. It's return on effort and like return on focus. And so if the focus it took me to like make more ads and spend more money on ads was less than me trying to think about cracking a new channel, like that was always the calculus was like, okay, well, we did 2 million last month. Can I get to 2.2 with just like spending more money? Yes. Okay. Well, then I'm just going to do that and like until until the incremental effort for doing the more, I mean, it is it is truly a math problem, which is just like, at some point your email list becomes a million people and you can't scale your ads as much and it's like, okay, well, if I did write an email, I would probably make more than if I tried to do something more here and so then I just shift it to the thing that you get the highest return on. And like that is literally the foundation of leverage is getting more for what you put in. And so it's like, we just, we all have the same money and time. And so the people that move faster, they don't actually move faster. I think like Sam and I are neither of us are like hyperactive individuals. And I think we move, I think we've moved quickly by picking the right things to do.

>> Slow smooth fast.

>> I really want to like emphasize like the whole like personal chef, like housekeeper stuff. Like I haven't been a coach for long. My first 6K pay in full, I got like an in-house health team, which is like a housekeeper, a chef, and like a dietitian and stuff. It's crazy, but they're not that expensive. Like, I pay my, I had a maid and I pay her 150 bucks twice a week to come over and I have a meal plan and I give it to her and she shops for the food. It's all Whole Foods. They come over, they make it. I have like 20 meals in my fridge at all times. They're like amazing, good, like Latino whipped up food. It's great. And, uh, I was able to take like three more sales calls a day. And that's a big reason why I even won the school games. Like that was huge. And you also feel amazing about it. And it's like, it was like this like super luxury investment, like, oh, shark, that's a private chef, but it was, it's 1,500 bucks a month. Like, if you do the math, it's 96 hours. It is $1,500 a month. That's literally like I have a big presentation on it. It's $15, like 16 per hour. If you can make more than $15.16 per hour with your time, you should do that. It has nothing to do with luxury. It has everything to do with like, what is my return on time? And like, you can just ignore every poor person who says otherwise.

>> Like no one with money will tell you that that's dumb.

>> Like, oh, you don't meal prep. No, I don't meal prep. It's like, we got to close.

>> Yeah. We got to sell some stuff.

>> Meal prep.

>> We got to sell stuff.

>> All right, got a quick question. Um, this is kind of for both of you. Probably you, Sam, as well. Definitely Sam. Um, but I guess like when you're building, you know, a startup, um, obviously, you know, you might have sometimes you might have a little bit lack of capital, lack of resources. I guess how do you get A players to work for you and with you and how do you like structure comp structures and all that so it like, you know,

>> Go for it.

>> When you don't have any money. No, no, no, no. Not we. No, no. You maybe you're trying to get somebody who's, you know, making decent money, you know, already. Or you're wanting to get, you know, we're making money, but like you want to get an A-player team. Um, but you're still a startup, you're not, you know.

>> Yeah. Well, it's really hard. It will probably take a long time. You'll probably want to quit. And but but eventually like something, you'll just, there'll be a chemistry I think and a perfect fit with someone and you just kind of have to give it enough time until that thing happens. And it, and you also have to offer something unusual. Like for me, it was offering the like co-founder title to Daniel because I knew when I found him that that was what I needed to use. So.

>> A programmer.

>> Yeah. My ear. Um, and you know, when I found him, it was like the perfect balance because he just wanted to code. He said, "I love to code. I can build anything. All I need is someone who can dream."

>> And he was like, "If you've got some like money and you know what to build and you can help us get customers and and all I need to do is code, like then we're good." And we, we had like a good chemistry. How did you all meet, if you don't mind me asking?

>> I did 600 interviews.

>> Did you have like a, a hedge on it?

>> So all I did for a year.

>> How did you, how did you get to interviews? Did you work with like a?

>> I worked with many different recruiters. Okay.

>> Hacker News. Like I tried, honestly, a bit of everything. Plus I had to hire five of the wrong people too. So it's not like I just got it right. Like.

>> It was the most brutal thing I ever did. Do you, do you have like, I, I hear people talking about doing more interviews. Do you feel like there's ever like a sense of uncertainty? Like after you get to a certain point, you're like, damn, option number one, two, and three are good or whatever. Like, what do you think?

>> Yeah. Like some people I swore were great and they weren't at all. And I'm sure some people were great and I didn't see it and I missed them, but how can I know about those? Um, but in the end, like Daniel, my co-founder, he was like, there was chemistry and I think I didn't, I ignored, I was too logical back then. But I think I've come to realize now that the chemistry is really important and I pay way more attention to that now. Ultimately, you're not going to know until you hire them, right?

>> But you just have to talk to a lot of people, too. I feel like there's, there's been this case where I feel like everybody wants to be an entrepreneur, you know? So like when I'm trying to, you know, hire people or it's almost like they'd rather, they're like, I'd rather do that myself. Or rather do.

>> What kind of person?

>> Uh, just, you know, uh, I guess like high-level people for a growth partner agency. So like somebody who can like be a growth partner essentially or be a, you know.

>> I think, I think me and Chris's problem is we're unicorns and and we provide our people with like, we cover all the bases, so we need more people like us.

>> Yeah. And then, yeah. So we've even, we've even talked to some people that we know aren't making, you know, that much money and like, "Hey man, I'll pay you triple what you're making right now." You know, I'm like managing school communities. And they're like, "Oh, I'd rather do my own thing." It's just like, wait, what? You know what I mean? It's like a disconnect, I think, sometimes. So, I don't know. Like, it's like I can't.

>> Yeah. The money is not the thing.

>> Right. Right. Absolutely.

>> Cuz you know, when with us, we're like competing with Google, NASA, SpaceX, Tesla. So, everyone's trying to throw money at them.

>> And they show us their DMs on LinkedIn and stuff. It's insane. Like, the amount of recruiters, right?

>> Um,

>> So money can't do it. Like, it has to be something else.

>> Right. In y'all's case, do you think it's like the environment? Y'all's hard.

>> Well, what, when I got my co-founder, or when we get people now.

>> Like everybody?

>> Well, the hardest one is getting the co-founder in the beginning because you don't have anything. So, right, that's the hard one. But with time now, the way we get it is through internal referrals. So, if we have great people and they've worked at places like Coin, most of our talent comes from Coinbase and Riot Games because we've got some of their best engineers and they know everyone and when they tell they're like, "Hey, how you going over at Riot or Coinbase?" Oh, okay.

>> Burnout.

>> Dude, this place is badass where I am.

>> And they trust that person because that person isn't a recruiter. They're the probably the best software engineer these other people have worked with. And so their word means a lot.

>> What about people like that aren't coders though? Like what about like, you know, Andrew or like Matt, you know?

>> Oh, that, that's a different side of the business. So that comes from your customers.

>> So Matthew, who's running our podcast,

>> He came from the community and like he showed he was making podcast episodes for free and then he flew to the first school games. He paid for it himself. He's from Ireland. Like who on Indeed is going to do that? I don't know if you've ever tried Indeed. It's so bad.

>> But,

>> Yeah, but you look from them within. I think like Kirby was in my mastermind and then he made this free community called Synthesizers. He was one of, he was on the leaderboards for school community, right? So I was like, "Okay, he's committed." Then Kirby hired Wicked. Where's Wicked? There he is. Because he was his most engaged member in Synthesizers. So you see, and then Wictor hired this guy called NAS because he was someone who connected with him on school, too. And now NASA is referring someone.

>> A little bit.

>> Yeah. I think that's what we're hoping for, right? Like whenever you're like, don't like, but that being said, we don't have the best people in the world, but we're, we're kind of rooting through internal.

>> It starts with one.

>> Yeah. But if you don't get that one, you'll never get anyone else.

>> We have a few good, really good people, I'd say. But yeah.

>> Have you pushed them for referrals?

>> Um, yeah, but I think I think the big thing is getting the high-level people. So, we have really good like, um, executors, not really good leaders. That's one thing that we, we have like, I'm, I'm literally, I'm managing like, I feel like I have to run like five meetings a day almost, you know, for our team. So, it's just like excessive.

>> That's a lot.

>> Yeah, it's excessive. So I would challenge the structure. Then.

>> The vision for the business has to be big enough that smart people can fit their dreams inside of it.

>> And so if you want brains, then you need people who, like, they need to be able to believe that their dreams can come true within your vision. If it's again, if it's like, yeah, we've just got a couple groups that we're running and we're making money, then it's like,

>> That doesn't like really get me motivated if I'm intelligent. Because like the best people have, there's no lack of opportunity for the best people. They have tons. Like you have to think about this. It's a totally different game. Like you're, if you're accustomed to taking people who are like, "I really want a job," all of those people are irrelevant. You have to be people who are like, in some ways, you're competing for them. So the more you're competing for a prospect, like selling them. And so if you feel like, like, I'll tell you the funny one is like, if you're interviewing people where you're like, "Sell me on why I should take you." If you say that to somebody who's actually really talented, they'll be like, "I'm good." Like, like they just, like they just don't like, I have to respond to this offer within 12 hours. It's like, okay.

>> Yeah, I think you hit the nail right there for me. Like their vision has to be our vision needs to be big enough for their dreams to fit into it.

>> You have to be able to say like, what we want to do is we want to make Music Money into the standard for this, and then they have to believe with a decent amount of certainty that it's possible. And so like, how you guys present, like you are absolutely selling them. And so like, I think drew this about on a on a past one, but everybody here understands, you know, lead generation, lead nurture, sales onboarding, and then, you know, retention, ascension, right? That's the how you do with customers, right? This is the exact same process for an employer. You generate applications, you nurture applications, the sale is the interview. You onboard the employee and then you either retain them or ascend them. It's the same thing. And so you basically have to understand the acquis, like this is when we get into scaling because everyone's like, "Two or three people are like, what's scaling?" It's just where the inflow of talent into the business matches the inflow of customers into the business and you have to have an exceptional conversion process for attracting talent. This is where brand counts double. It counts once on the front end for customers and again on the back end for talent and it becomes either a virtuous cycle or a vicious cycle. Either destroys your business. Have a bad brand because what do you think, what like what, um, like great talent will look at your reviews and be like, "Oh,

>> Yeah, never mind. They would work at a good place. So I guess, and last question, I guess, what, what would be the best way to like acquire talent? Is it just building a personal brand like in our field of work because I don't think it's necessarily like, I can't, I don't feel like I can find the right people on LinkedIn or something like that, you know, for what we're trying to do. It needs to be people who are kind of like already kind of entrepreneurs or people who are in more of like the sales or manager manager field.

>> It really depends on what role you're looking for, but I can promise you that very smart people are on LinkedIn.

>> Do you know how I, um, I looked, I got invited to speak at something and I looked at who else was speaking there and I saw Hozosi was speaking there and I was like, "All right, that's my opportunity."

>> That was the first time we met in person.

>> Yeah.

>> Honestly, so cool.

>> How long ago was that?

>> At one year before I spoke about doing a deal.

>> But you have to like be strategic sometimes.

>> Yeah. And then so you have to kind of do this old school networking thing, which I [ __ ] hate because that's like the only time I've ever done that. The Hormoni deal was like the one deal to never do that again. Um, but yeah, you kind of have to do that. I had to start going to like these software things. I had to start to meet some software engineers. I had to learn about their world. I had to ask people about, "Why does, what do you hate as a software engineer? What do you like? What makes a good company? What makes a bad company?" You have to like learn everything about it and network and do that. It, it really sucks, honestly, but if you're serious about it, I knew there was no way I could build school without this person. So I delayed starting it by a year just to find the person.

>> Yeah. So I was like, "I'm not even gonna start until I find them." Like, that's how essential I knew they were.

>> It's why I tell everyone to not do software. It's just because the scale of how difficult it is to actually do it right is so hard that like no one basically no one does it right. Even when you know, even if you know what you're doing, most people can't do it. And most people who are quote in the info world are like, "Oh, my info thing is unsellable, so I'm going to build software," and they just think that white labeling GoHighLevel means they own a software company. Um, like, but I mean, right? Or they create some widget that someone else can duplicate in five seconds that they did off with an offshore developer that like, if it actually did work, then that developer would hold you ransom and then what? Like, they just don't play it out two steps and the code [ __ ] anyways and it's all, it all sucks. Like.

>> Yeah, don't do it.

>> Yeah. And some people were like, "You're just, you don't want us to succeed, that's why because you're." So I was like, "No, man, I saw that Sam had put five years in it. I was like, "Great." Okay. I saw the metrics. I was like, "Okay, this is legit."

>> I spent all my money and it still wasn't enough.

>> Yeah.

>> I had to spend like twice that again.

>> Yeah.

>> For that, too, by the way. That that's going to help a lot. I appreciate this for real.

>> Yeah. I mean, the personal brand thing is just good for recruit. Like, if you have one, it's great. It helps a lot. Um, but at the end of the day, if the, if the, if the business that you're trying to build solves a real problem and you really genuinely care about the problem, if you find someone else who also cares about that problem, they will be more likely to work with you. Like that's fundamentally it.

>> What do you, sorry, last question. What do you think about creating an offer to train people to do what you are trying to eventually staff for? Like.

>> How I'm growing.

>> Yeah. Like, you know, like in.

>> Yeah, you know, training.

>> There was a point, there was a point in time I had a closer program, I was training closers and I was staffing them, you know what I mean? And then I was, I stopped doing that because there's so many closer training programs. But right now, I really need growth partners, people who can lead and manage our clients and kind of oversee everything. What do you think about like, I know there's the growth operator thing, but they're not, you know, like in my mind, like they don't have all the skill sets necessary. What if someone, you know, created a program to train people?

>> I don't think you create another business to solve a role.

>> Okay.

>> Depends if it's like, I know with a software engineer, no one's going to be any decent in 10 years. Maybe a prodigy in six or seven, but like, there's just no shortcutting that. Like, I mean, my co-founder's done 20. So the years matter. And the same is true with a lot of things. Like, there's just years. So like, but some other things might be different. Setting. Okay. Yeah, you can teach that. Closing. Yeah, you can probably teach that. But these more high-level strategic things. Yeah, that ain't happening. Like it took me [ __ ] 10 years. Like, so are you going to wait 10 years?

>> No.

>> Yeah. It's like fundamentally every skill is trainable. The question is whether it's worth the return on effort and the resources to train someone with it. And so it's like, I think you could teach a [ __ ] to do neurosurgery. It's just not worth it. It's just not. Yeah. So like, like at least that's my fundamental belief for the world is that if you break things down enough, you can train someone to do anything. It's just that if someone lacks, has zero meta skills, they don't know how to read, they don't know how to write, they don't know how to talk, you could teach someone to do all that stuff. It's just why bother? So I'd rather take someone who's already here and then just nudge them if I can with, you know, proper training that just bridges the gap between all the skills they come in with and then applying that to my business.

>> You got it.

>> Cool. Appreciate it.

>> Yeah, no worries. I mean, the people is the reason that most internet marketers in general can't make money. Sorry. They they make money, but they don't make like big money is that they just can't, they can't, they don't know how to operate people. And that's usually because they need like a right hand, a true right hand who can, who's as good as them. And like Ila will never get the credit that she deserves. And that's fine. Um, but like the reason that all of our stuff is so big is because she's so good at at building. Like she's an unbelievable builder. And so like the culture of the team is rock solid. I mean, the guys will tell you like Ila really runs the like Ila runs acquisitions.com. Like I, I really, she really does. She does like Leila runs everything. Like I, I mean, I told you I have an empty calendar. I can't have an empty calendar and and also have a business that's running unless someone else is actually doing it. Laya takes 15 meetings a day. She operates, she's she's coordinating things between different departments. She's checking on portfolio companies. She's having, you know, one-on-ones with people who are having some sort of emotional breakdown about some craziness, whatever. Um, she handles all that with a smile. You know what I mean? And so, but like I, I, we were talking earlier, like I capped at $3 million a year and then when Leila came in 24 months later, I took home $17 million in income net. And so the difference was that she liked people and I tried to avoid them and that was the problem. And so she, like Ila's genuine vision in life is to build a company that people love working at. That's her whole, like the whole reason that she, like she gets a, like her internal mission is to build a company that people love being at every day. And so her vision just fits within my vision. And so I recruited her to do it. But like, if we didn't do stuff that she liked, we'd like, she wouldn't build it. So I very much like, especially the more talented the people that you bring on, the more you like, like they don't need pushing. Like they know what they're doing. You just need to make sure that they're doing it in the direction and you kind of do this.

>> Integrate, right?

>> Yeah.

>> Or.

>> Yeah. The amount of training that you have to give someone is is inversely proportional to the skills that they come in with. So the more spe, basically the, the less skilled the person, the more specific the instructions. So like Sam could basically just be like, "Hey, can you just promote school a lot?" And I'd be like, "Yeah." He's not like, "Hey, could you make these posts and write this copy and send these emails and run ads and make the hooks like this?" Like, that exchange has literally never occurred. Like, I don't even know if Sam sees the ads before before they they go out.

>> Homosi texted me the other day. He was like, "When does the activation stuff come out?" And I said, "Last Thursday."

>> No, like for real. Like.

>> Like I already did.

It. And then he was like, "I've seen this." And I was like, "Yeah, I've already been thinking about that. We've got something coming." Like, "We don't even I've already thought about the next four things and we've got things ready."

So, by the time he has the idea, I'm like, "Yeah, we've got it. Don't worry. Do your thing."

And then I'm like, "Cool. Let me tell you what what I'm doing on the media side." It's like, "Oh, [ __ ] Great." Like, "These are all the things that I'm ramping up. This is the system we're putting in place. Like, we changed our cadence. Like, things like that." It's like, "Oh, dope."

I don't even want to think about YouTube. So, like if I had to tell him stuff, oh my god. Like, yeah, but it's good to divide it like that cuz I can just focus on this stuff, he can focus on that stuff, Kirby can focus on his stuff. We have very good like division like that.

The amount of direction you need to give someone is inversely proportional to the skill they have. Like if someone could just be like, "Hey, can you build this company?" And be like, "Sure."

People will complain. Like if people, it's always a sign I've noticed when people complain there's no communication. Have you has anyone had this as an issue? Um like with teams, maybe a lot of you don't have teams yet, but bad communication. Communication sometimes it's always the complaint.

Yeah, I found it's interesting that one because you don't really need to communicate a whole lot when you get the right people. Like said like a couple of words and I was like, "Don't worry, I got it." like already happened like right but sometimes if you hire the wrong person there's no amount of communication that can ever make it work and it's exhausting and it just still doesn't work.

And I think I understood this I think I told this at one of the previous ones but how you know what a good culture is is this story of Google in the early days so Larry Page searched for something and the ads that showed up were not relevant to the words he typed He took a screenshot. He printed it off. He got a red marker and he wrote, "These ads suck." He walked over to the engineers and he pinned it up on the wall and he tapped it. And one of them walked over and picked it off the wall, stayed up all night that night and invented AdSense, which is their which has made them hundreds of billions.

Chill. So, he didn't sit down with him and be like, "Look, I think you need to do this and this and this and maybe this." He just said, "These ads suck, right? Is that clear communication?"

I mean, to him it was. No, but that's what good talent is. You can just be like this thing. Yeah. Do this. Yeah. You don't even have to say do this. You can say this sucks. Sort it out. Like, and then they'll they'll be on it. Or they might have already preempted what sucks because they've already been thinking about it. So I always remember that when people say, "Oh, like you need more meetings or more communication." Like that wasn't a meeting first of all, right? That was that was slapping something on the wall.

One of the most difficult things. This is like I think this from an entrepreneurship perspective in terms of development is like has anyone here had another business before this? Yes. Okay. Did you achieve in this business what you achieved in your last business like in like from how long it took you to get to that level in your the business before versus how long it took you to get to that level with this business was it way faster and so a lot of the reasons is because you've already beat the bosses up to that level. So it's kind of like you're quickly retracing your steps and then you get to a level that you don't to your level of incompetence.

The difficulty the the thing that takes the longest in entrepreneurship is figuring out what good looks like at each level. And it's one of those things that's really hard to translate. Like you see the billionaires on stage and they're just like I you know get great people and you're like sure but the thing is is that connecting what great people to them looks like in their mind and what you think great people are that is an ocean apart.

And so I mean I tell this story and Sam and I were talking about this last time, but like I when we started meeting with private equity firms uh to to to look at transacting with Gym Lodge, I we'd have these super long tables that were these boardrooms and I'd see their team all the way on this side. I saw my team all the way on this side and I would just kind of sit there and listen to like the questions that they were asking and the responses that my team had. To be fair, the team that we had had built $und00 million plus company precoid. Obviously I sold during co which actually hurt my valuation but not the point. Um, so they built a hundred million dollar company which is cool but when I saw this the talent on this side I was like oh that's why these guys are going to make $3 billion over the next five years this team and it was such a stark contrast in terms of the level of talent. Again not disrespecting my team. It was just such a difference that it was literally like after that immediately I was like my whole bar was just reset in terms of the caliber of the people that even existed in the world and everything was like how on earth do I get those people to work for me and so like right now some of you have like one person who's like man I couldn't live without that person. There's somebody who's literally 10 times better than that person that exists right now and it's just trying to figure out what you need to do to get them on your team.

But the problem that takes so long is looking at what good talent in general looks like. But even when it gets ro specific, like Sam had to do all this research to figure out like how do good software engineers talk? Like what do they like? What do they want? And so some of you guys are at a point where you need to like start hiring a sales director or something like that.

Like what happens is like this is the entrepreneurial journey. It looks like you bring someone on, you talk to a bunch of people and then you're like, I think this guy's good. You bring him in and he sucks. And that takes six months away from the growth that you would have had because your sales team drops and this guy sucked. You put bad processes in, then you got to fix the process. You got to fire the people that guy hired cuz he sucked anyways. And then you're like, "Shoot, I'm going to try again." You bring the next guy in. And then sometimes it happens again. And you're like, "Wow, this sucked." And then the third time, and sometimes this takes a year or two years. And then you're like, "I now know." And you get lucky and you get one who actually works. And you're like, "Oh, this is what a great sales director looks like." And so the next time you go through your entrepreneurial journey, you're like, you go right to there and then you're like, "Shoot, I don't know what a good customer success person looks like." And then you try again. And so it's like however quickly you can work through that so you can start recognizing the pattern of a what good looks like in general and then b what it what good looks like for a specific role. That's how quickly you move through the levels. That's been my experience with this. And I wish I try and do everything I can to try and translate that into the stories that I tell with the content. But sometime it's really tough because people like nod but like that is that is the secret sauce. Like that is it is being able to recognize like what a good growth partner looks like. What a good even a good agency. I've have good I have good agencies that we work with now. The vast majority of them, 95% of them are dog [ __ ]. Some of you guys run them. So, you know what I'm saying? So, like that's that's that's that's the pattern recognition. That's the highest value thing that you end up learning as an entrepreneur is what what good looks like.

I have a question. Um, so obviously like I'm I'm doing a lot of the management for our community and that includes like making posts from from as Justin >> and obviously Justin has like lots of businesses, you know, like start construction. So he's going to be like helicopter soon like shooting whatever. >> And how how could we maximize his time within the community because right now he's doing two calls a >> two calls a month. I mean I mean if you if you modeled what I mean what my contribution right now is I do one call a week and we do this once a month. That's my contribution and then I ad hoc look at you know I poke around and I see what people are asking and then I end up usually just like I haven't committed to anything. I just write one or two posts a week sorry a month that are just whatever is kind of top of mind.

You set out like on the calls that you do, right? Like you treat it like a meeting like a on the calls for the school games like the weekly or the monthly call, you just kind of sit there and just like treat it like a >> they're weekly. Yeah, they're they're Q&A. They're like this. >> When he said like a meeting, he batches it on the day that he does all of his meetings. >> Yeah. I do my school call on my day where I have all my meetings. >> So it's not as disruptive as if he was like, I don't know, writing a book and then he had to switch gears to do a Zoom and then switch back into the book. that's >> that's going to take more than an hour >> or like I can't record like if we're going to go record you know some YouTube videos or something and that's my whole morning. I can't like start recording YouTube videos and be like hold on guys and then like go take a call and then go back to record like it just doesn't work. >> And Kirby's there to make it less taxing on so doesn't have to scan the chat or pick the questions. >> Yeah. >> So like if you're going to do a call have someone like Kirby on. So, you're Kirby in this? Like, I would just literally model what what what Kirby does on a regular basis and just >> just replace roles. It's the same same setup. >> And you record them and it turns into content. >> Yeah, I also record them, too. >> So, I So, so Daniel's But you got I mean, actually, shoot, you guys have probably seen some of them. Me yelling at the at the laptop. I don't know if you see him on Instagram, but um some of them did really well. Um, but he's right there. I've got my webcam here. And so those get clipped into content for me. So it's like I'm doing delivery for the people, you know, for the school community, but I'm also getting clips for marketing and those get those get hammered out. So it's you get double dip. >> Do you record your calls? >> Yeah. And I post them in call recordings with timestamps as well in the classroom page. >> Do you make content with it? Are you guys recording it with another camera like for >> We We could make content with it. We We haven't done it yet. I'd recommend it because like you'll get the I'll bet you you get the most heated. Yeah. You get like super heated. I get I mean I get heated on the calls >> because if you can use it for many purposes, it's a much more efficient use of time. >> Yeah. >> Cuz that one hour made content. It brought in customers. It delivered value. It made a recording. Do you know what I mean? >> And then people also ask like if you think about this publicly if you're promoting a snippet, people are like, "How do I get on those calls?" >> And then you just >> Yeah. People really like when like Justin gets really passionate about like things that he's just interested in on a daily basis. So yeah, those those those probably >> those moments will probably be the best reals or whatever. >> Yeah. >> All my best clips are just moments where I just freak out at someone. >> And then maybe getting like I know this is going a step further, but maybe getting your power users together for like a a random meetup or something and recording that. That could be like the next level if you want to do that. I don't know. >> What do you mean by power users? >> Well, I think after a bit of time it naturally it emerges like these people, these key members of your community that are themselves holding the community together, helping everyone else out. And if you give them some like credibility or like a I don't know what is it like a reward of some kind like you bring them closer to you then that keeps them happy and then it that's what everyone else in the community strives for. It also produces content for the rest of the community. Kind of like this, right? Like we're getting together the people that won the games. We're hanging out that adds value to you. we're recording it and then we're going to put it back and then people the rest of the people get to enjoy that and then they strive >> this for content too for us publicly >> and then they strive to be a member of this right so it's like a cycle >> do you see what I'm saying >> absolutely yeah it makes sense I I actually have spoken to a lot of the power what power power users yeah power users yeah I've like just touched base with them and they're always I mean I've actually told them like hey I really appreciate the value you know you you psyching everybody up actually. So yeah, >> I would say like as a rule, everything has to triple dip or more. Like we don't do anything that is only for one thing. Like everything has to it it delivers for you guys. It also delivers for everybody at home. It also it it's also content and also for me personally, this is how I get other content too. like this keeps me in touch with everything so that I can be like, "Okay, this is more stuff that I need to to make or like some of the the articles that I like or many articles whatever posts that I write inside the group come from just like, you know what, I really want to hit on this." Like I'll probably end up making one about the the $1,500 a month thing because it just seems like this. You only get that leverage. You only get to increase the amount of hours you have by 96 per month one time for 1,500 bucks. You will never make that trade ever again. It cost you significantly more for the rest of your life. like make the trade as fast as you can. >> That makes sense on the triple dip. >> Leon, you haven't asked anything. >> That's right. >> Yeah. Um I'm curious um what you see. So I'm a I'm a YouTube creator for everyone here. 600,000 subscribers. Um, what do you see possible for creators when it comes to school? What have you seen so far that works that people doing successfully that is not a a course offer? I think a community offer I mean from what we're seeing anyways like anime shreds doesn't even have a course and they're one of the top communities on school like I mean I tell your story all the time which is Sam looked at consulting.com saw that people would log in go through a handful of videos and then they'd spend the rest of their time inside the community like the community is clearly the thing that has the much faster feedback loop of reinforcement and that's why people spend the majority of their time there and so I like I don't even think you need to have any kind of course if you don't want to um inside of there and just basically you add value inside of the community and the that picture that I had with the circles like if you if you facilitate people meeting and networking that have common interests in general that will I believe will intrinsically be yeah >> valuable >> I think that was the biggest unlock for me here because Sam you and I we talked about this too at Tmacula um I was resistant to have a paid community because I don't want to launch courses I don't want to be a guru I just want to talk about self-improvement. Just like, hey, this is what I'm trying. Join. >> And in my head, what was always the missing piece was if I charge for a community, it's going to be, oh, get this outcome. But what you guys talked about the the fun and how much value that adds. I'm like, oh, we can just do that. >> Yeah. You should see the messaging for the new M for the [ __ ] I almost gave it away. >> Yeah. um for the for the new school games. Um, and when we were first writing different versions of it, it was all about the results, like how to make 10 grand a month. And then we were like, "Oh, what about the people that already make 10 grand a month?" And then we're like, "Hundred? No, that's not believable." And like, and there's something weird about saying the result. And then when we got it right in the end, nowhere did it talk about an outcome rally. >> Also great for ads and FTC. >> Better for everything. Yeah. >> Because then when people join, like if you really promise something and then you put a time on it like seven days, you bet your turn's going to suck because everyone's going to be looking at that clock, they're like, "Where's my 10 grand?" >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Seven days quit. Right. Like whereas if you position it slightly different then people are like I'm getting what I paid for and I'm not even expecting the result. Obviously we still want them to get it but do you see what I mean? >> I was thinking of even using that as a joke where on the about page is oh here we have Daniel. He joined. He was making 8K a month and now after being in this community for 3 months he's still making 8K but he's having a lot of fun or he's connecting with new people or whatever, right? and just and that I think for me as a creator who doesn't want to do courses, who's not positioning himself as an expert, that's perfect because I could just make it fun. >> Yeah, we scrolled through the group too and found quotes for testimonials. >> We didn't want to use money ones really. So, I found one and it was like, I've made more friends in one month here than I have in the rest of my life. >> That's cool, >> right? >> Perfect. >> Awesome. Then I found another one which I'm almost Oh, what was the third one? Do you remember it? >> Wow. >> Oh, no. It said it said, "I can't believe I get to be on Zoom with Horosi." >> And I was like, "Yes, focus. That is the best." Because someone's going to get to be on Zoom with Hormosi. It sounds cool and we're not promising 10 grand or something, right? >> Even better than 10 grand. >> Yeah, that's that's what I mean. you when you uh when you get it right, you don't have to use those like claims and it sounds better and then people get exactly what they want and you but this took us a whole week, man. Like, and we did do all of those things that suck like until we came right back around and found this. >> Yeah. >> I can't wait to see it. It's been my pain. Yeah, I'm pumped for it. >> We even dropped the Harley. >> Yeah. At one point it was getting so wild. I was like, "Humo, can you ride a motorbike?" >> I was thinking about getting a Mahali >> and a leather jacket. The amount of times I heard in a le >> Yeah. >> That sounds like an action movie right there. >> Yeah. Right. Exposure behind me. >> Yeah. Uh, how did you get the testimonials? >> I scrolled through the community and I looked for things people said. Well, I was like, I wonder if someone said first customer. So I searched for first customer and I looked through those and I was like h then I was I searched for find friend and then yeah I saw the versions of people saying that and then everyone I was working with like four people around my computer and they're all like holy [ __ ] that's perfect. I was like okay grab that and then the other one was like horosy zoom was the keyword right and then I found people that said variants of that. So you're like trying to find things people have said, but you have to kind of start by thinking what are the like keywords and then you can search your own community and find them. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Yeah. >> Sounds like the search feature is like I I don't even know if we even talked about it, but it sounds like that's like >> it's not that good. >> It's not that good. >> Yeah. You can't use more than two people. >> Search sucks. >> It's not like Google, but it's it's good enough to do the job. >> Yeah. I mean, we use all the all the ads that you see that have like those comments that pop up. That's all we do. >> Like, my team just searches for the keywords that I I reference in the ad and they just pop pop pop. I think the group is literally like the single greatest asset for for finding like those a those word like the actual language they use, but just also literally the proof that's not that's non-monetary. >> I also think you do have an outcome. It's like because you you're talking about like the self-improvement which is let me show you the real stuff that I was spending all the money on including all the failures, right? Which I think people will be super interested in because like I see you as the um the archetype of reporter which is like I'm going to go it's the Tim Ferrris model like I'm just going to go and subject myself to all these crazy things and spend all the money and time that you don't want to and I'll condense a week of work into 11 minutes. >> Yeah. I think the biggest outcome is community and connection because I think even I mean looking back when I was going through my first business was really lonely. I was in Germany. I didn't have any friends and the only connection that I had was just listening to podcasts. >> Yeah. >> And connecting with people online. And so there's a lot of people out there like that. They just want to connect and that's that's the outcome. >> And then from there the the learning and the value doesn't come from just comes from other members. >> Yeah. You're hosting the party. >> Yes, exactly. And that is a big shift for me in my mind now that gets me really pumped. >> I think you'll do really well cuz you have a really deep audience, super engaged. I'm sure I'm sure it'll crush. >> Yeah. >> You'll like this messaging. I can show you it later if you want. >> Yeah. >> You'll have se I haven't seen it. >> Do you Do you have your community yet? >> Do you have your community yet? I have a we have a free community and we vetted people by just having them send a Loom video in and it's great. It's only 500 people but when I was doing calls 30 30 to 50 people would show up and it's great. It's people from all over the world. >> That's good. >> I I love that uh send video to to get so cool, bro. I love that. >> I didn't mention this earlier but I want to I want to loop back and say it. Um, and we'll do a fun like live version of this in, you know, later. But, um, if you have the inerson events, which I would encourage you guys to do cuz I think you'll you'll get to meet people. You'll honestly I think you just like your community better because you're like, "Oh, these are real people. Like, this is dope." You know, um, those events are such insane media opportunities in terms of recording testimonials, recording ads, recording recording additional content like what we're doing here. like it like it feeds itself. It's like it's everybody's stoked about it. Um I think that's one of the big things I I would say of some of the things I did pretty well with Gym Launch is we captured so much at the events that I almost did the majority of all media for like the four months between events was almost all captured. I would have I would hire three different teams for my events and each team would have different objectives. I'd be like I need you to you to capture testimonials. I need you to get all the presentations. I need you to get men on the street and uh like overall feedback about the event itself. So it's like these people are getting people to talk about the event. These people are talking about the results that they've experienced within the you know the program. The uh these guys are making sure that my presentations actually like look and sound good and all that stuff. So I had three separate teams that I would contract, but we got to I got to squeeze everything out of those events. And um I never sold at my events. Not to say you shouldn't, but I never sold at my delivery events and um it was worth every dime and I spent a lot of money on my events. >> So they they left curious or they left when you say you never sold. >> Yeah, I just deliver like for basically it was like uh you you know you know these guys are also my they're licenses. They're paying $42,000 a year. So like I had I have nothing else to sell them. >> Well, what about the friends they brought though? >> Oh no, this is this is gym launch. >> Gym Launch. >> Gyms. Yeah, by all means I would like the thing is is with mind you it was a brickandmortar business. LTV was like one or two, right? Um so you know Sandra would bring her three friends from her nurse friends from work. >> Okay. So you wouldn't let gym launch people bring gym launch people. No. Okay. >> Unless it was a public like a a conference where people bought tickets. This was a delivery event for people who were at basically like imagine. So are you guys familiar with Quantum? Right. So I don't know how many people you had in at the peak but like >> kept at a hundred but some people had partners. >> Yeah. So I had 700 people in my $42,000 a year thing just like it was a lot of people and so it started like this but then like the second event there was like it's a whole room and then >> a stage. >> Yeah. And then the third I was like wow my my quote you know highest level and is now a it's a conference 700 people here. Um, and so I had to kind of approach it differently. So, it would have been weird if like at Quantum Sam was like it it was just a massive event, but it was still like a delivery event um for everyone that was there, which is why like my team pitched me on on being like you should have something called the 100 and we're going to make it 100 grand a year and we'll get you know and I was just like >> I I like had the whole pitch deck and it was like a week before and I was like I just don't want to do this. >> So, I just didn't. >> One thing that changed it for me in framing was like event because I really didn't like doing events. They're like exhausting. I was like, what can I get out of it? I asked that question and then I thought, well, if I hang around and I ask people questions and I'm curious, I can use it as research and discovery to make better products. And that made me energized to do them. Like, why do I come to this one every month? Cuz I get to like talk to everyone and see how do you like school or what about this, what about that? I'm taking notes. And so I get something from it. Um, that really helped me see them in a different way. If you're like if you feel like you don't want to do an event like that's just one extra thing you can get from it is product and market research. Yeah. >> Recommend events. >> I have one little question. How did uh how did you and Kale meet or you know how >> he was a client? >> Really same story. >> That's so cool man. He had a client, his gym was losing money. He was working a nineto-five job. He would work from 5:00 a.m. to 9:00 am at his gym teaching sessions. He'd go to his job at 9:30 or whatever. Work from 9:00 to 5, go back to his gym, teach all the evening sessions, 5, six, seven, eight. His wife had just had a baby. She was pregnant with her second child. All of his income from his primary business went into the gym that was losing money and they had nothing left over. And so he called me up or he didn't call me up and be like he responded to an ad and I got on the sales call and and um I was like, "All right, it's whatever it was at the time." He was like he was honestly the first 10 customers I sold. Um, and he was like, "I I would buy this. I need this." Um, but I just gave my last 10 grand or my only 10 grand to this coach that was going to teach me how to have an online fitness business. And I was like, "Do you have an online fitness business?" And he was like, "No, I it didn't it didn't work or whatever." I was like, "Well, what if we just made your gym make money? Would that be more?" He's like, "Yes, I'm fine with just making my gym make money." And so, um, I asked him, "Put a,000 bucks down." And he like put $1,000 onto a credit card or something. >> That's so beautiful, bro. That's so That's sick. >> And he made $38,000 in his first 30 days. I >> I think I think that's the coolest story in the world whenever you give some like give somebody the chance to buy in at a thousand. Knowing you, you probably never even let nobody buy anything. >> No, everybody started a thousand books for the first three years. >> Wow. >> Wow. because all gym owners are broke. All gym owners are broke. And so it's a thousand down thousand a week. >> So the thing is is that and this is what everyone in the entire like the entire info space still doesn't get because everyone's like my programs. It's like no it's not. It's not. It's not. The average gym that still to this day goes through gym launch makes over $20,000 in additional new revenue in their first 30 days. Average. Average average. First 30 days. We track it because it's such an important metric for us. And the reason that we have to do that is because they don't have the money to pay me what I want to get paid. And so it's like I know that this system's going to on average on average triple your profit. We'll go from 36,000 to 112,000 in profit net of our fees as in after you've paid us. You'll make 112,000. That's the average over a year. But when you're broke, it doesn't matter because you're still broke and you can't buy anything. So, it's like, "Put a thousand bucks down." And I still needed him to have money for ads. So, he had like $3,000. I was like, "Keep two for ads. Give one to me and you're going to run this ad, which is a video of Leila. You're going to run this ad to this landing page that I've made. You're going to put your logo at the top and then when these leads come in, I was like, you're going to call them like, you need to feed your family, which you do." And so, that's exactly what he did. And so, um, once the, you know, the second payment came in, and I gave them like a 14-day delay because most of them didn't have any money. And so, they would pay it, they'd collect cash from the people that were coming in and they could make the payments. And then I gave them an incentive in the first 30 days to prepay the rest of the thing at a discount. And so, that way it turned $1,000 down into 16 grand in the first month. And so, my LTV to CAC and my cash flow in terms of acquisition was super strong. Um, and then like we ran that we ran that for a very very very long time. I think like a year and a half ago I think um after after I sold and Kel took over switched it from a front end and a back end to just selling a year for 36 I think is what it is. Um, and so that's what they do now and it's just uh they bill every 28 days and I think it's $29.97 or something like that a month. So it's you know 3k down or whatever and um and that's and that's fundamentally what happens. But like I'm just saying like the reason the niching is is useful is that when you niche down, you can productize the delivery. Like there's no generic business quote consulting that can ever deliver as consistent of an outcome as a very niche business can because imagine if you had to do it generically. You'd be like, "Okay, come up with an offer, make something free, and you'd want to run it to a lead genen page. And then when the leads come in, you want to call them quickly. You have to talk in generalities." Whereas I was like, "Here is the ad. This is the landing page. This is how you set up your lobby. When they walk in, say these words. This is the price you're going to sell at. And by the way, here's the delivery for it. Here's the meal plans. Here's the cookbook. Here's the eating out guide. Here's all that stuff. You can put your logo on it. You can make it yours. I already spent all the time doing it. And the sales training they went through was the sales training I put my trainers at my gyms through, which by the way, my sales training was less than one hour. And so, there's all this closer training out there that's hundreds of hours long. But when I needed to get guys to close, it was 60 minutes. It was like, "This is what you say to them." It wasn't psychology. It wasn't like, "So, we want to increase their demand." I was like, "When they walk in the door, say this and then after they agree, say the next thing. And if they don't agree, you don't move on until they agree. Then you go to the next thing. And then here's where you ask for money." That was it. Because I wasn't trying to make a course to impress people. I was trying to make a training that got someone a result. And again, I did turnarounds for two years. And so like I had to give stuff that to busy gym owners who hadn't paid me because the the turnaround business they didn't pay me. So I had to make the training for them like how do you do nutrition was one 30 minute video. That was it. I was like this is the color template. Weigh them in divide their weight by 10 which means you just move the decimal. I like had to break it down. I was like okay so it means 21 food units. Put the first eight over here. This is all their protein. Then you can tell them you can scatter the rest between carbs and fat. You just do the yellow list. Got it? Great. Have them take a picture with it in front of them. that way their numbers there. Put it against the wall like this. Like there's just there's nothing they could mess up. And because of that, because all the variables were controlled, they all got a consistently good outcome. That just took a long time to do because I had actually done it at multiple locations and then 30 plus turnarounds in different markets. So also, when I get the customer who was like, "This won't work in my market." I'm like, "I've got five other gyms on your block, but people are very limited." You know, I had a I had a one of the gym turnarounds that I did. I launched the gym. This is important just for your customers. I launched the guy's gym and when I decided to switch to licensing, I called back all the guys who had done the turnarounds for. I was like, "These will be the easiest sales." They literally saw me crank 100 grand out of their gym in three weeks. Called one of the guys up and he's like, "How do I know it's going to work?" I was like, "I just did it in front of you. Like, I you saw me meet with 250 people." And he's like, "Well, I don't know if it's going to work for me." And I was like, "You will never win, but like some people are like that." And I was like, "It's not worth the time. Just move on." Sorry. Yeah. So kind of like a really specific situation. So like, so I started as a B toc offer, right? But my top 10% of guys who like really kill it are the existing agency owners usually stuck at like a certain range and then I install like the closer infrastructure and all that stuff. How, if I wanted to explore that, make that to 100%. How would I deal with my existing 40 guys who got in at a B TOC offer who have this like expectation that I that I could like help >> the B TOC offer is what a make money like a generic how to start an agency offer. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I would get rid of those. >> Yeah. >> Well, think of it this way. Just like again LTV to CAC like how much does it cost to acquire them? How much like when when people are trying to decide between avatars, which by the way, the concern you have is the probably the number one most common concern that people have in business, it's also one of the biggest leverage points that you can have is picking the right avatar. So you're in this overarching space of agency, but if you like almost always when you go up market, you make more money. Almost always. And so when you deal with somebody who's a higher quality prospect, they pay more. they're lower maintenance because they already have more skills coming into it. Um, and so forth, right? And so if you just look at because I had a I had a hair salon uh lady ask me this question. So she was like, I have I'm getting 17 to1 um or sorry 24 to1 um selling um hair stylists on my extension technique. So she had some extension technique that was like extensions are like two grand and it and if you and she had a technique to do it in like 30 minutes so they could make a ton of money in a very short period of time. And she's like and I have business consulting or coaching or whatever which has like 11 to1 um LTV to CAC and she was like so should I focus on like my business coaching offer or should I just sell this hair extension just like teaching how to do hair extensions which is not really a business offer at all. It's just like how to it's like a hair thing, right? And so I just boiled it down to LTV to CAC times TAM. So it's like if you have crazy LTV to TAC and you have a massive market, which she did, there's way more hair stylists who don't want business coaching and just want to learn more about hair. So it's like you have both more customers and a bigger discrepancy between what it cost you and what you make. And so then the only thing is just N. And if there is a massive market, then you can crank N as in the number of units sold by a ton. And so I was like, and from there you can cross out the coaching thing if you want to, the business consulting, but stop running two two frontends. Focus on this one that you have the greatest arbitrage on. Smash the [ __ ] out of that. And then all your focus becomes on ascension and cross-ell. Does that make sense? So for you, I would probably like you're going to have to sunset the the 40 guys over time. If you are better at delivering a result, like go where the value is, as in whoever you can help the absolute most is who I think you should sell to. So, if you're like, "I have three different people I help." It's like, "Well, which of them?" Like, this happens in um I had a lady who had a tile business. So, she sold tiles, like a very generic business. She's like, "I sell to homeowners. I sell to uh designers, interior designers, and I sell to home builders. Three completely separate avatars." I was like, "Okay, which one's worth the most to you?" She's like, "Well, home builders are pretty much just only care about price." I was like, "Okay, well then maybe you don't sell to them." interior designers. She was like, "These people um they're they bring me customers all the time. Like they come with their the the person they're doing the living room for or whatever." And then the you know the people who just own homes. He's like they're you know they're kind of like one-off sales but they have the most margin. I was like okay. I was like which one do you like doing the most? She's like the interior designers. I was like how many people does an interior designer bring you on average per year? And she's like 30. I was like okay. So she was calculating it at a transactional level rather than at the resident at the interior designer level. I was like, "So how much does it cost you to get?" I was like, "How do you get interior designer?" She's like, "I do outreach for a week once a month and I get like three to five more interior designers who come in. I walk the facility and then I show them what we do." Um, and this I mean this business was doing 7.6 million topline and like 5 million in Ibida murdering it. Um, and so I was like cool. So you now are the res the interior designer is now your avatar. So you need to become the interior designer deep but you need to make their life amazing. Don't sell to home builders. Don't sell to home home owners. Just interior designers that are people that you've got on your roster. And then all you do is you go from having 30 interior designers that send you business all the time to 300 and that's it. And there's 300 interior designers every city. And so all she has to do and she already had a way to acquire them. I was like forget everything else. So it's like you want to just like stake through that. And a lot of times that's where this massive unlock happens in businesses. Like in most businesses go through this because you start throwing stuff on the wall. You start selling stuff. You start looking at the customers you have and then you're like, "Huh, I'm really good at these people. I suck at these people. These ones are okay." And then you start making your delivery. You make a decision strategically to say no to this money. And this is where people can't do it. This is why everyone fails. They can't say no to money. So you have to say no. So when the 41st person comes on the phone with you and it's like, "Hey dude, I like really need this. It's like I'd love to have a way to, you know, make money online or whatever. You're like, you should

just watch most of these videos for free and then start a business and when you have a business, call me.

>> Okay. So, like I know my I mean what I'm what I'm best at is the acquisition, fulfillment, and then the operations of existing agencies. Like my two best clients away for the money people give it away for free.

>> Okay?

>> Give it away for free. It'll be And then you'll be like, "Look, I've had 40 people pay me whatever they sold, you know, you paid." It's like, "And I just want to overd deliver in value and I'll give it to you for free." And so use it because I really just want to work better with agency owners because the zero to one stuff you can just just do it. Just do the work. It's not that hard. Once like that way you can self-prove that you're legit and then I will tell help you scale it from there.

>> And then like tangible items to like actually sunset them. Like what does that even look like?

>> How long was the sale for?

>> the 40? How long did you sell them for? What was the duration?

>> It was like I was starting off it was like an inner circle just like 6k like lifetime.

>> Right. So, this is the problem with lifetime deals.

>> Yeah.

>> You have a one time onetime income with a forever delivery. Um, like, right. So, the the real real the ethical way to do it.

>> Refund. I think pull the rug refund. So, if I make the decision just hard conversation refund, integrity restore.

>> That's going to suck, but okay.

>> How many of them are there?

>> What's up?

>> How many?

>> 40.

>> I am.

>> Send them to someone else, maybe. But wait, are they still How long has it been?

>> It's been like two months.

>> Oh, okay.

>> I mean, I would like this is the like this is the tough part, you know? Like you either I mean the alternative is you but like the thing that thing I don't like cuz if you had said it's a 12-week program, then I'd have been like fine, live it out. Like finish it out. But you're like lifetime, you're just going to have these people forever.

>> Two months in. Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Cuz that's at least going to be 12 months. You got 10 months. Yeah.

>> So,

>> you got a trade-off. Like, you could probably get away with it if it had been a year.

>> Yeah.

>> But you were only just starting.

>> Yeah.

>> To go all in on school, I had to re I had a calculation of how many of my mastermind members I had to refund.

>> I had to refund $2 million to go all in on school. That was losing 700 grand a month.

>> How about that?

>> Did you say losing?

>> Yeah. I lose it.

>> I refunded 2 million to focus on something that was losing 700 grand a month.

>> Damn.

>> Why?

>> I don't know.

>> What a risk.

>> Nah, it's worth it. Like, if you do all the math, it it was a no-brainer. Yeah.

>> Pause the deal.

>> Yeah. It's just if you want to just play in the big league. I mean, the things these are mistakes. Like, people make mistakes in the beginning. Lifetime's easy to sell, but it's because you don't think about ramifications. But saying no to money is always what.

>> is the biggest thing that makes you like that after I did that I had a massive jump cuz I could focus on school right um and you know people offer me like a lot of money too to go and like speak at an event probably nowhere near as much as Hozi but 100 grand in first class flights you just say no no no no no no no then you don't even bother saying no you just don't even reply Yeah. And that you if you don't have the discipline to do that, then you'll get pulled in a million directions.

>> Also, when you feel that sting of the 240 grand you have to give back. It'll help you say no to everything else cuz you're like, I just refunded all these people. I'm definitely not going to mess that up now.

>> Like, I just spent all this money to to get this attention back. Like, why would I mess it up?

>> Yeah. It does something too for your like personal power or something. When you say no to money,

>> you don't need it.

>> Yeah. You're like, you show you, it does something to you. It gives you some kind of power.

>> There's no better feeling than turning money down.

>> I mean, making money is also pretty good. But

>> especially with clients you don't like anymore.

>> Yeah. Right. I would prefer to never see you again. Here's your money. Yeah. Really?

>> I got like a little taste of it cuz I was like I'm like the gatekeeper, the main closer. So, if I didn't think I could coach the guy, I'd be like, "No." But

>> refunding is a whole different kind of thing right there. Yeah.

>> Totally. But you'll feel super convicted and when you get on the phone with people, you'll be like, "This is for agency owners and I'll help you scale or whatever, you know, whatever you're good at." And if you're not, then you're like, "That's why I have this thing. I used to sell it. I'll just give it to you, man.

>> Just follow the steps." Realistically though, you're probably not going to do it.

>> So, at least this way you can save your eight grand, which I probably could have sold you.

>> It's a big conviction. That's sick. Sweet. I like I have the same thought as him because I have a a program called start and then scale but

>> sell to the scale people if you're better at them and you like them better and they're worth more.

>> 100%. Um I did have a question if it's better offline that's cool. How do you for instance like somebody joins at 30 gets to 200 how do you market that testimonial without uh a financial claim?

>> So how can I actively share these stories? So getting into the like nitty-gritty with FTC is beyond my scope, but for the most part it comes down to timelines. That's the thing that like most of these platforms hate. It's like X in Y time. But if you just say X.

>> I did I thought about this quite a bit.

>> Yeah.

>> And I've noticed that the only people that ever get in trouble, they did way worse [ __ ] than make a claim.

>> Right. Because I know the people that got into trouble and I know what was going on. And I'll tell you how it happens every single time.

>> Yeah.

>> It's they don't give refunds.

>> Their disputes go up. They piss so many people off that enough complain to the attorney general.

>> that eventually so many complaints go to the attorney general that they investigate them and then they find everything. Like the first thing to go is always you get kicked off of Stripe.

>> Yeah.

>> Way that's like the canary in the coal mine. No one that doesn't get kicked off Stripe never they never get in trouble even if they're making wild claims on ads. But then when these people get pinged, they've got to like say, "Oh, everyone's doing it. Everyone's breaking the rules." Because they're trying to show like that they're not a criminal.

>> Yeah, we just cross we just stepped on this little rock. The the refunds thing is bar none for sure. Like I there was a guy I'm sure we both know him, but who um who got dinged by the FTC. Ding is a very nice way of saying it. Um, and I knew for like I I I was in a room like this cuz I was I was in the back room and he was speaking at the same thing as me. So like kind of funny. Um, and he was like, "How do you guys like stop all these chargebacks?" And I was I was like, "What?" He's like, "Yeah, all these people like they're just these [ __ ] are charging back." And I was like, "Well, I mean I was like, "We don't have we just refund people if they ask for it." He's like, "Oh, no, we don't do refunds." I was like, "I mean at all?" He's like, "We say no refunds." I was like, "But you you lit you actually don't give any refunds." He was like, "Oh, no.

>> If you give refunds, you'll never get in trouble and you can say whatever the [ __ ] you want.

>> I'm serious.

>> Just give like all like we're we're just get another customer." I also I mean Sam said this I think like three ago and I just love this is like you don't want to become someone's project.

>> Like you don't want someone waking up thinking like how can I destroy Shark today? Like how can I ruin this guy's life? Cuz cuz that six grand was the last six grand he had and it meant a hell of a lot more to him than it does to you. So just give it it means more to him back. Just go get another customer,

>> bro. It's always worth it to just give them money back.

>> and they come back too. Like we noticed that they a lot of people come back when you didn't make a big deal about it.

>> or they'll buy something else.

>> Yeah.

>> Cuz you know what it's like yourself. You buy something, you ask for refund, you're like how hard's this going to be? And if it's easy, you're like, damn, I like this company, right?

>> Yep.

>> So, Planet Fitness, believe it or not, I obviously a fitness example because I know a lot of the the big businesses there, but Planet Fitness figured this out, which is so you might not know this, but Planet Fitness to Make Money has have 10,000 members. Like a brick and mortar has to have 10,000 members to to make money, and they still crank. And they can do that in a market that only has 50,000 people in total, which is insane to think about. But they don't have like zero churn. They have like 5% monthly churn, which is you're like, "Wait a second. How would you do that?" They cycle through the entire town over and over and over again. And so what they figured out was rather than being like the dicks on the way out, they said they call it the friendly goodbye. And so it's like they they're like, "Oh, you want to cancel? No problem, Steve. No worries. Let us know when you're you know when you're want to come back. Like we we'll get you going." Like very friendly on the exit. And so then Steve when he like gets the next gig or gets to the next job or he feels fat again or whatever it is, he signs back up because it was no big deal.

>> Also crazy how many people don't actually use the membership. They like paid for it and then.

>> Oh, 92% don't use the membership.

>> Yeah. It's the only It's the only way the business model works. If they did, they'd have to charge $200 a month.

>> Yeah. Wouldn't be room.

>> Yeah. I mean, the reason micro gyms are priced that way is because people use the membership. It's the same scratch. So like like the worst thing that and so like I mean I could talk about pinest fitness but I'll stop.

>> How would you choose between the friendly goodbye and then the one that he mentioned where it's like if you leave you have to pay the entry fee to come back.

>> Those are different. One is a refund. One is like someone trying to cancel which I see as separate things. One saying hey I want to cancel your service. One is like I paid you please give me my money back.

>> It's not very friendly to say you can't come back ever again. And that's also not really true, I think, because someone can just make another account. How are you going to know?

>> Well, for high ticket, I can imagine. But like I just whatever. I mean, I've all the the people that I know who have done it and don't have good communities, it does nothing. If you have a great community, then it matters, but then does it matter at all because the great community is the reason that it happened. So, TLDDR, I don't know if the tactic does anything.

>> I had this on a way smaller scale. It was like my second close, like 10K. I was all excited.

>> and he he's on the coaching call and he just wouldn't knock on doors. He said he tried it for 30 minutes because one thing we teach is door to door marketing to book jobs. So I was really hesitant on what to do and I he just bring down the energy. So I let him out of the group I refunded him and then I posted in my free Facebook group. Hey had a client wasn't really ready to knock on doors. You know if any of you guys are are actually willing to do this spot open and it brought my ideal clients actually close four off that post.

>> You're like and every week you're like I I had a spot open up because.

>> yeah I mean tell them the truth. Yeah. I got I got one question about like um I've heard you guys talk about like offboarding interviews or like you know like taking you know somebody wants a you know wants to cancel their membership or wants a refer refund you're like yeah for sure just do an interview right is there any way we could maybe get that going on in school like whenever somebody churns like obviously like it's hard to get them on the phone right you know at that point um but I'd love to like figure out maybe that at some point like oh yeah you want to cancel cool press this button schedule an appointment after we talk.

>> I think they have to be able to cancel easily. But I think yeah, they have to be able to cancel easily, but I think you could encourage them to take a call after the cancellation, try and resell them.

>> Could we do a Zap year integration for the cancellation?

>> This is that's.

>> we were just thinking an auto an auto DM would probably be the best.

>> Autodm.

>> Yeah.

>> I've noticed uh the Zap year integration. The Zapier integration feature in school is amazing, by the way. But um we started doing this in one of our communities when people join and we immediately send them like a welcome call and then we just like immediately upsell them and it does really well.

>> All the new customers.

>> Yeah. Oh yeah.

>> that crush is just for everybody. By the way,

>> if you if you let people come in and just give them an onboarding call,

>> it's I mean, think about what an onboarding call really is. It's like, what are your goals? What have you struggled with? Where are you at currently? What do you like, why haven't you succeeded so far? Oh, I think we might have some things for you. It's just like it just lends itself naturally to a sales call.

>> Beautiful.

>> And you can do in AutoDM as well. If you have a strong referral offer, can put it into AutoDM when they join. And like who else do you know about you'll get this if you refer somebody so that you know you set it up once and you can have literally like extra 10% for free if you have a strong referral offer.

>> and once the affiliate thinks it'll be even more random question. So uh you said you used to spend six hours in the morning not taking any calls from some folks work.

>> Yeah. Now I do 18 hours in the morning. It just ends at.

>> But when you were like a lot more busier. I mean, I know you're busy, but you're you run on as many calls. You did six hours in the morning.

>> When did you like work out?

>> During the day? Well, honestly, I've never had like I work out when I worked out before before we came into today. Like, I don't even do normal. I usually do I usually work out now. Um, but on these days, I'm here, so I work out in the morning. I Some people need a regimen for working out. I just like working out, so I will find time to work out when I can. It's just always been that way for me.

>> Course. Well, so not but not during that 6 hour period.

>> No.

>> Okay. So the six hour period is for working and then you work out. Okay.

>> Yeah. I tend to be freshest in the morning. And so after I work out I'm usually like I'm mellower. So like Ila likes me to work out before I see people. Um and so I try to do that when I can.

>> Got it. Cool.

>> Like for team meetings she's like work out.

>> Actually just going back on that single stream or Yeah. um what you're good at.

>> One thing we have is we have that physical academy. So.

>> um what I was one of my questions earlier was about how would you integrate school platform into the physical.

>> you know what just random thoughts. Um, but then because I think our the school academy has done by far you know mostly yeah better than physical. Um, what are your thoughts on integrating ditching?

>> I don't I mean I think the in-person members joining I mean you could if you want to give a a gift to the in-person members you could actually I don't know if they could have a different membership. So no um they probably just join like anybody else would and it would just be a benefit to them to because they know you in person. So.

>> is the digital already making more money? Yeah, the the do it kind of like how we're doing this and school HQ. So, we've got Horosis HQ, we've got School HQ for the power users in the online world. We bring it offline and we let them come in like this and that can produce content back for the like online.

>> So, you use it as a a reward.

>> Yeah.

>> You can either like you can charge for it or you can use it as a reward for like what we do here, right? We're not charged for it, but it's it's a reward. But you absolutely like as a side note, if you wanted to make even more like if you wanted the in-person to generate more money and leveraged kind of like both together, give them an offer to have a weekend with you. I mean like when I had the you have it's not a it's martial arts, right?

>> Yeah. So I would do like weekend workshops where I'd be like we're going to do a deadlift um you know program. We're going to do the big three lifts for powerlifting this weekend. So anybody wants to come to that? Cool. I do like big booty boot camp for girls and they always want I teach them like eight different like moves for butt stuff because they always want to know butt stuff. I would do um I would basically just bring in specialists for stuff and then I would either then I would just market it to my community and say that they could pay you know grand or two grand or something for the for the weekend. I mean, you'll know the price point better than me, but pro I mean, you could probably get away with between $300 and $2,000 in terms of two days um for them to to come in and you spend two days with them and you get a ton of footage. You literally make money for it. You can get ads for your local gym. You can get ads for online all from that one event. I actually think it's a huge advantage that you have the inperson component because you can do stuff that no one else can do.

>> Level seven in school community is visit school HQ. the the prize like once you get to level seven in school community you get to visit school HQ.

>> That's cool.

>> And then in the games it's get in the top 10 and you get to come to Amosi's HQ.

>> That's the best prize on both leaderboards. It it creates this cuz in the digital world everything seems kind of fake. So, if there's some HQ that people get to visit and you start to see photos of this place, it gives people like something they can visualize like I can eventually go there, right? And it works really well and you can use it in your marketing and and all of this.

>> I can guarantee you that if you make a post in your community saying that you're doing a workshop that you're limiting to 30 people, how many people do you have in your community?

>> The free ones.

>> Well, the paid one.

>> Paid one.

>> 30. Yeah. So, um I mean, you could do it on the free one if you wanted to because then you could just sell them at the event if you felt like it, but I think it makes more sense to do it to the paid one and just do a higher ticket thing from the paid. And um so if you have 230 that's perfect. So that'll probably you'll probably get like 30ish people who'd be willing to do it. And so do 30, you know, between 300 maybe. I mean, it's meditation like 300 to a grand probably feels about right. You can pick the price. You can start low on the first one and then move it up if you want to. if it's like people are like that was amazing blah blah blah blah blah. Um, and it's like you can just do that like once a quarter. So every 12 weeks or so and just like that you can pop an extra like 80 or 100 grand a year in like and but like you're not just doing it for money. You get all the other stuff. Well, I've got a question for you guys. Um we've got like a little bit less than 30 minutes. Um I want to know if you guys want to do an activity. Last time we did it and people I think really dug it. Um, and so this is what it is. So, did you guys see the ad that I did with um the last community that was here? Okay. So, I want to like I think demonstration is the easiest way to teach anything. Um, and I got messages from like half the people who were here that they were like that was the coolest part. Um, which is fun. Um, and so I um I actually wrote out six ads um that we could do together if you guys are open to it. If today if today was worth it, if we overd delivered on the $99. Um, if we didn't, then feel free to sit out. I don't want anybody to feel like pressured into doing anything. Um, but I I'll have I have six ads and I've got a hook. And so, let me I'll I'll walk you through this just so you can understand what's happening and so you can think about it from Who here runs ads? Just raise your hand real quick. Just you. Two, three, four, five. Okay. So, five of you run ads. Okay. So, this is the This You can hand those out. So this is the structure. So when I when I record ads, the first thing I do is I write down 50 hooks. So, the hooks that I'm I don't have time to do all these with you obviously, so we're just going to do six. Um, but there are six. And to tell you which six I'm doing, four of them are already tested that I know smash for us. I'm going to try two new ones. Uh, so you guys will get to experience that. So, um, you guys need to do this side. You as you like you, too, you have a big audience online. Like, if you run ads, you will [ __ ] kill it. Like the the magic. And do you have No, you you already you run ads. You do you are you organic?

>> Yeah.

>> You're I'm telling you if you have an organic following you're missing like you are making probably you're probably making a tenth of like whatever your current revenue is is probably a tenth of what it could be if you ran ads to your warm audience.

>> You honestly like my biggest audience is on YouTube. I run my ads on meta. I don't like so like we're only on meta for school. Yeah. I don't even I like barely I like I barely even make content on Facebook. But like people have enough recognition that I don't think it matters. Anyh who 50 hooks I make three to five kind of like meat part of the ad like what's the belief I'm going to break or what's the one thing I'm going to teach or or sometimes it's just what's the offer, right? Right. So, it'll either be a belief, it'll be some sort of steps that I'm teaching, uh, or it'll be or story obviously, um, or just straight up offer, which like oftentimes offer does pretty well. And then CTAs. Now, I've already tested the CTAs and so the CTA for us is like that's interesting. You can click and start for free. That's it. So, like that that has worked well for us. But I test CTAs to see if you have the same ad with three different CTAs at the end if one of them has more throughput. But that CTA at the end tends to work. So, I'm not going to test that in front of you. Um, and so these these ads are already written. Um, and so this is how we're going to do this together. And I I would highly encourage you, since we talked about events, like model this, like it it works really well. Um, and so you should have like a fat marker in front of you. If you can do this, if this if this is your piece of paper, you can hold it portrait style and just put your first name and then just put whatever your school games revenue was from the school games. So like whatever it was, you know, $40,000 or and just try and make it like fill up the page. Don't draw it in like tiny child writing. Landscape.

>> Landscape. Yes.

>> Uh, yeah. You should have some handed out, but

>> here's a red one.

>> If you're done with your marker,

>> how did you hear about school?

>> Oh, use a marker. Use a marker. I got markers.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah, they're in my mastermind. Yeah.

>> Oh, smiling would be helpful, too, but you know, optional.

>> Oh, totally look a hostage, but it still smashes. Yeah. Any have a marker? Nice. Do this saying their name though. They're cool guys though. They they leave an impression.

>> Isn't Jory like a rapper?

>> Yeah. Whatever you did there school games. Whatever was during the school games is fine.

>> But he was a rapper, right?

>> I think at some point Yeah. Like.

>> I feel like a lot of people in music.

>> Don't feel obligated being I know you have your own brand. I don't want to feel like I'm hijacked. Just to be clear.

>> Be honest. I'd heard of it before. Like you know.

>> if you want a thick boy.

>> thick boy.

>> here I'll give you another one marker anybody.

>> Yeah I think they're still in school too.

>> You can.

>> this that was supposed to signify the page. My bad. That's on.

>> Yeah. Like this.

>> Yeah. Like always.

>> this is a this is a perfect example of name.

>> Name.

>> and number just like that. Great.

>> Yes. You're actually going to be in the ad because I have one that calls you out.

>> Sorry. Thank you. I have one that calls Shark out. So, you'll get excited about that.

>> Yes.

>> Because people try to um.

>> people try to talk about social proof and you can put, you know, the screenshots of of whatever, but the coolest thing that social proof is just actually social proof. And the first time I did an ad like this was actually at my brick and mortar gyms. And it's worked for every business I've ever done. And um what I did was I had people line up in order of how much weight they lost at my gym. And so I had them hold up like how much weight they lost and I was like, "Hey, lots of gyms, blah blah blah blah blah." And I was like, "Don't believe me." I was like, "Believe them." And so I just I just read I just walked down the line, just read everyone's results and I was like, "That sounds interesting. Click the link, check it out." And that was it. So that'll be.

>> Did you see those dudes?

>> Haven't seen all that.

>> Who doesn't have a marker? What was your favorite? Ju.

>> just a reminder, definitely smile on this one. The last video that I saw it looked like a standout.

>> Smile for sure. Um.

>> yeah, hostage situation is uh obviously.

>> I feel like that one.

>> we prefer not to have that understand.

>> Yeah. Who has a pen or marker?

>> Being really hard for for the school games.

>> You have a marker. Thank you. Anybody not have a marker? Everybody good? Did you guys get everything you need? I just want to make sure.

>> is there.

>> Should everybody per group or.

>> you can I mean you can stand together. I don't.

>> Yeah, it don't matter to us.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> I mean, more people look more impressive.

>> Yeah. Last time we had like six guys holding it up. It definitely looked like.

>> And last time um I had caffeine today, but last time I didn't. And so at the end of the day I was like really tired. And so I was like, "Hey guys, um, there's John. He made $16,000 and here's like actually I was like if that's interesting like check it out. Still crushed as an ad. Um, so I'm going to try and do a little better this time.

>> Sam was taking his jumper off in the background.

>> Was he really?

>> Okay. Um so uh yeah, we're going to do uh six six ads. And so just so you guys know from a from a context perspective, if you're doing with a a crowd, um it can uh like you'll want to move quickly through them obviously, and I will try and do the same thing. Um, what was the other thing I was going to say? Uh, I can't remember the point I was going to make, but yeah, there's six of them. Um, we'll do one where we kind of line up and so I'll probably do two or three when you're lined up there. And oh, that's what it was. We have uh we'll have multiple cameras going and so if you're doing it, you only get like one take. You're not gonna be like, "Hey guys, we'll try that again." Uh, because I [ __ ] up. Uh, and so I will probably mess up. Uh, but we'll I'll try and keep it super short. But we'll have one that I recommend having as an iPhone so you have that kind of like nativeish feel and then one that's a professional camera and you can have both going at the same time so you get two ads uh done for every kind of like take. Does that make sense? Just little things. I've just I've done this a handful of times. Um, obviously, uh, thick markers. These are like tiny details that like I have [ __ ] up entire entire events because I didn't have the right markers. Like little things. Um, and then even the instructions here. I'll have to do this again next time because some of you guys did boxes inside of your box. Um, so I'll learn on that one. But like if someone does like first name, last name, and then it's like the numbers like this big at the bottom and it just it looks silly. Um, because and the reason the first name's there is also because when you're like in ad mode, you can't like look at face, remember name, then look at number, and then say it like all at the same time. You just want to be like Chris 30,000, John 22,000. Like and just like keep the keep the pace really high. Um, with these types of things. Cool. Okay. Are my guys done? Are you guys ready?

>> Any questions on this framework while they get their cameras ready? So cool. Dan, you're on the the fancy cam. Okay.

>> Is there time for a quick question for 10?

>> Yeah. Yeah, go for it. Yeah.

>> I'm curious. So, I don't fully understand. So, these are ads that we're making for us.

>> for school.

>> For school.

>> So, I'm going to do a school ad right now with all of you guys.

>> So, what do we have to do? Just hold this.

>> Yeah. So, you guys can stand up. Um.

>> Yeah. Apparently, uh Smiles Smiles Okay.

>> Okay. Oh, shoot. Can you grab my uh fake money?

>> Thank you.

>> Uh, yeah, I mean you can I mean you can.

>> Yeah, be silent, but maybe at the end.

>> Yeah, at the end you guys can cheer if you want. As long as you guys can hear me on the audio.

>> Yeah. Yeah, you guys will smoke this. You guys will crush this. If you have your first in in person thing, just use it to capture ads and then run those. Yeah.

>> Yeah. After we do this, I'd recommend you try it.

>> It's a good idea.

>> It works.

>> It works. It's neat. You guys have fun today.

>> Okay. Sweet. Oh, yeah. You bet. You guys were awesome. Good. I I only need one.

>> Huh? I don't I don't want to have a hundred grand lying around my office.

>> There we go.

>> Yeah. If you guys are curious, no money was hurt in the making of this uh these these things.

>> You know, no one's ever really said anything about.

>> All right, cool. Okay. And then boy, all right. Also, fanning out money works better than holding it. Again, we're in now with hardware. Little things, but.

>> I spent 13 years running paid ads. It's just like hiding like a lot of little things. Um, that's not fitting. I have to chant.

>> All right. So, what I'm going to do is you're going to be on me and then we're going to go on the side.

>> All right. Cool.

>> All right. So, I'm going to walk in front of the table and I'm going to point and at the very end when I'm say I say so um and click the link and you can start for free at that point just go or whatever woo equivalent you guys have. Cool.

>> All right. Ready?

>> Yep.

>> Am I looking here?

>> Yeah.

>> Okay.

>> Uh this left one.

>> All right. Quick question. Can I get your email address real quick? Quick question. Can I get your email address? Because I want to send you $1,000 of free stuff. The same stuff that helped Jay Waller do over $45,000 in the school games in his first month. David do $49,000 in his first month. Stoyan do 16,000. Kyle 75,000. Greg 43,000. John 43,000. Zayn 36,000. Goose 34,000. Justin and Brandon 27,945. Shark 26,215. Cow, ciao, it's $10,000. Chris, $30,000. And if that sounds at all interesting, we'll give you the calls. We'll give you the step-by-step manual, and you can start for free. Click the link, and I'll see you on the other side. That was one. [Applause]

>> All right, one down.

>> Easy. All right.

>> Right. What do you think of this being?

>> No, that was great. Thank you guys. I really appreciate. I hope this is like interesting at least for you.

>> All right. Um.

>> so you guys have heard that hook before and it's cuz that hook performs and so the second one is also uh the second hook that is the second highest performing hook. So you guys hear that.

>> one compared to the other two?

>> So um.

>> I think before lunch was the best session we've ever had.

>> Oh, okay. So you think this one's better than the last one?

>> And the last one was better than the one before. Okay.

>> Okay. So we're getting better.

>> Yeah, but I've already got feedback from some people. They're kind.

>> Okay. So, this one I'm just going to do the hook so you don't have to redo it. Um, so we'll just use the hook real quick.

>> That's because I refuse to like go.

>> if you could have.

>> Anyway, you're like, I don't want to do the retention.

>> Well, that was good.

>> Would you pay $1,000 to have the business of your dream in 30 days? No. Well, how about $100? No. Well, how about free? Well, that's exactly what we're doing at the school games. The same thing that Justin used to make $45,000. And we can just cut it there and that way they can use the rest of it. Okay, great. We got that one done. Easy. So, this is how we do hooks like and we can just run it.

>> So, so when we do this, we'll do 50 hooks.

>> and then we'll have just, you know, the three to five meat pieces. That way we can rotate and test a ton of different front ends and just like having advertised a lot. You spend all your times on your hooks.

>> like all your effort should be in the first 5 seconds because that's why someone's going to click or not click.

>> That also applies to local businesses too. Okay.

>> So, you got that one done.

>> Um, choosing to straight like.

>> Okay.

>> this style.

>> It's one group. There can be.

>> All right. Since you guys are here, I'm just going to do one again just with the whole thing about engagement. It was.

>> Yeah.

>> All of those little things, right?

>> If you could start your dream business, if you could have your dream business in 30 days, would you pay $1,000 for that? No. Well, how about $100? No. Well, how about free? Well, that's exactly what Jay Waller did when he got $45,000 in his first school games ever. And David did 49,000 and Stoen did 16,000. Kyle did 75,000. Greg did 43,000. Zayn did 36,000. Goose did 34,000. Justin 46,000. Brandon 27,000. Shriek 26,000. C 10,000. Levi 30,000. And there's so many more. We'll give you the tools, the community, and the step-by-step instructions so you can do the same stuff and get the same kind of amazing results for yourself. Click the link, you can start for free. It's really [ __ ] Okay.

>> All right. So, if you can, and let me make sure I don't I don't I don't want you guys to have to move again. So, I'll do a different one.

>> Um, sold them.

>> Okay. Um.

>> it's really that one thing that fun.

>> Who's Okay, so who has the top? Who is you were top this this month, right? Can you hold that one up real quick? So, uh, who was second highest this month? You were second. No, you have 49, right?

>> I don't have this.

>> Okay. Well, then, um.

>> that's fine. That's fine. Okay, that'll work. That'll work. That'll work. So, I'm gonna stand in front of you, Shark. And so, this is the one where um uh because you're the bottom, don't worry, of this school games. Um, and so what I'm going to do is I'm I'm going to shout out the number and be like $26,215 per month in recurring revenue. That's what the lowest person in the last school games of the top 10 made. But listen, like, and sure, I could talk about Kyle who did 75,000, and I could talk about Justin who did 46,000, but it's not like that. Like, would you guys even be happy with 10,000 or 5? What about $2,000 a month? Would that be something that would change your life? Well, cool. And then we go into it, right? Does that make sense? Okay. So.

>> I'm going to stand here.

>> Um, you can all put.

>> Okay, so you can keep yours.

>> Okay. So, we're good. You're clear. You're fine. Okay.

>> The best energy.

>> $26,215. That's how much Shark made in his first school games in recurring revenue. And he was the lowest person on the totem pole of the top 10 for the school games. And listen, like, that's a crazy amount of money. And I don't even need to talk about Kyle who hit 75,000 on his first try or Stian who got 49,000 or Justin who hit 46,000. These are all amazing numbers. But what about $4,000 or $2,000? Would that be something that would change your life? Well, if so, then I've got something for you. We're going to give you the tools, the training. I'll take a weekly call with you every single week to answer your questions, give you the support you need, and once a month, we drop everything from a full day mastermind in the group, and you can start absolutely free. Should they join?

>> See you on the inside.

>> All right. [Applause] Yeah, they like the energy or the vibe I feel like is.

>> Okay. Um.

>> you've done this before.

>> I've I have done this before. Okay, so this is actually a new hook. So, this is one that I'm testing out. We'll see if it works. It might just blow. So, uh, that'll be fun. Um, okay. Um, want to start a business in under a month? Well, that's exactly what these guys did when they started the school games. 30 days ago, Justin hit 45,000. David hit 49,000. Stoian hit 16,000. Kyle hit 75,000. Greg hit 43,000. Zayn hit 36,000. Goose hit 34. Justin hit 46,000. Brandon hits 27. Shariq hit 26,000. Chiao hit 10,000. Chris hit 30,000. And there's so many more. And so if you're competitive, if you want to learn, we will give you the tools, the training to build and monetize a community all within 30 days. But don't believe me, believe them. [Applause] All right. All right. Two more and then we're out. Okay. Um, so this is a alternative hook. Okay. Okay. Hold on. All right. What's this? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10. All right.

>> More money. Good, baby. Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> What's up?

>> Yeah.

>> What if you could have what if you could join a $100,000 per year mastermind and you could start absolutely free? Well, right now I take a call to help people start their businesses inside of the school games. We have once a month a mastermind in person that we have in Vegas with all the top community owners, all of them showing exactly how much they made in their first school games. And on top of that, we'll give you step-by-step instructions on exactly how to start your business on your first try. And so, if that sounds at all interesting, click the link and you can start for free. You can see it for yourself. [Applause] Okay. Okay. Last one. So, this is a diff this is a new hook. So, we'll see if this one works, too. Okay. Okay. You guys have been awesome, by the way. Like, your energy is helping me out cuz been talking for eight hours. Um, okay. Uh, okay. 30 days ago, 10 people started their communities on school. Here's where they are now. Jay Waller hit $45,000 in his first month. David hit 49,000. Stoen hit 16,000. Kyle hit 75,000. Greg hit 43,000. Zay hit 36,000. Goose hit 34,000. Justin hit 46,000. Brandon hit 27,000. Shriek hit 26,000. Chiao hit 10,000. Chris hit $30,000. And this is recurring monthly revenue. and it was on their first shot. And so if you want to give this a chance and you want to learn, we will give you the training step by step. We'll give you the community of people just like them who've done this before with you and I'll be your guide along the way. I take a call every week and once a month we drop the equivalent of $100,000 year mastermind in the group and you can start for free. Click the link. Should they do it? [Applause]

>> All right. All right. I appreciate you guys. Thank you so so much for that. Hopefully get more people into our into our world.

>> Yeah. Hopefully it didn't blow too much.

>> No.

>> Yeah. You can never have too much fake money lying around.

>> Yeah. Like what was your big takeaway? Have lots of fake money lying around. Austin.

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Alex Hormozi Mastermind April (1-Day Recordings)

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