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This is Democracy Watch. Mark, just a few days ago, we found out the surprise good news from Virginia Democrats. They were that they were moving forward with a map redraw of their own to neuter or counteract what Republicans have done in Texas and Missouri and North Carolina. Now, Republicans have stood up and started to fight back with one move in particular. Can can you explain what they've just done in court?
>> Yeah, Brian, it's always something with these guys, right? A group of Virginia Republicans, they filed a lawsuit that is trying to block this redraw. Specifically what they are saying is that um that the speaker of the state uh house there does not have the power to essentially use the existing special session. Right? So there was already a special session called by the governor Glenn Yncan um uh last year but it was never completely ended. Right? It was adjourned but not but not uh concluded. And so the plan for Democrats was to reconvene this session and then pass uh a a a law that would or a constitutional amendment that would undo the current constitutional requirement for a nonpartisan map. Now they'd have to do that in two different legislative sessions. Once now and then presumably again in the beginning of the year and then it would go on the ballot initi then it would go on the ballot in probably in April for a vote. But all of this was premised on the idea that the first of these two sessions in which this would pass the legislature, right, once this year, one next year, would be this remnant special session. And uh what Republicans are saying, and I think they're wrong about that, and we can get into this, is that essentially uh Democrats don't have the authority to reconvene this, that uh that the speaker doesn't have that that power. I think this is a long shot on the part of the Republicans that speaks more to their desperation than it speaks to the legal merit. And honestly, Brian, it reminds me a lot about what you and I have talked about before, which were similar lawsuits that were filed in California. You know, people have not paid attention to this as closely as you and I have and the readers of Democracy Docket and the people who subscribe to this channel, which if you're not already one of them, hit the subscribe button. But, you know, we talked about the fact that Republicans went to the state supreme court of of California twice. Twice they lost there. Then, uh, as you and I re more recently talked about, uh, Ronnie Jackson, the Republican congressman from Texas, went to, um, a very conservative judge, uh, in Texas to try to stop the California ballot initiative. That failed as well. And so, you know, I would kind of put this in that vein, >> right, of these last grasp lawsuits being put forward that almost feel doomed from the start.
So, I guess that raises the obvious question here. What's your take on on whether or not they're going to be successful? I I I understand that that you believe that they won't be. And so, why is that?
>> Yeah. So look, their argument by these Republican state lawmakers and one citizen on the redistricing commission, you know, says that essentially only the governor, not the speaker of the house, can convene or expand the scope of a special session. Um, I just don't think that's correct. I think if you look at the plain text of the rules and law, like that just isn't that isn't uh that isn't correct. Now, you know, I don't want to I don't want to um make too much of this, but it is it is noteworthy that uh the lawsuit was not filed uh in uh in Richmond, where one might imagine this would be filed. Uh it was not filed uh you know, in um Northern Virginia or any of the population centers. Um it was filed um in Taswell County. Uh which I will tell you I live in Virginia. I had to look up Tazwell County. It is a it is a relatively small um very rural county on the in the south uh western part of the state uh bordering I think West Virginia.
So >> I I wonder what the rationale for that could be.
>> Yeah. So I mean look again there's not a knock on you know Tazwell County or or its judiciary. I do think though it betrays probably a little less confidence on the part of the Republicans that they have a meritorious claim here. I think if they thought that they were going to win this claim, you know, the most logical thing would have been to bring it in Richmond, which by the way would not have been a terrible draw for Republicans, right? I mean, like it's not it's it's a pretty balanced bench uh in Richmond. I've litigated there. Um you know, because you'd be in the c you'd be in the seat of the the seat of government and then presumably in route to, you know, the state supreme court. This looks a little bit more like they are, you know, I think safe to say they are they didn't they didn't stumble across Tazwell County uh as uh the most logical place to bring a lawsuit. It probably reflects what they think about the merits.
Is there some rule precluding them from bringing a lawsuit in a place that that they're kind of figuring out which would have the best judiciary or the best jury pool for them? like is there do they have standing to bring this case uh that would presumably take place in Richmond because that's where that's where the session uh itself is taking place and so one would assume that's that would be the proper venue for this. Is there some way to challenge the fact that they've just tried to kind of cherrypick a venue here that that would be more favorable?
>> Yeah, look I think that's the first thing the court is going to have to sort out and there may be uh venue issues or jurisdiction issues about where they chose. I don't know as I sit here this lawsuit I mean this is for people who are looking for breaking news okay like this is breaking news like you go find you go search legacy media and try to find anyone covering this I mean this could be the biggest story in democracy going on right now because you know V what's happening in Virginia here could affect three four congressional seats that is almost as big as the shift would be in Texas or uh or in California and yet legacy media you know they're they're they're doing their own thing they're ignoring this but Brian you know, had me on has had me on to talk about a lot of important stories, including this one. So, like I said before, please subscribe to this channel. But that's going to get sorted out, this issue of jurisdiction. But in some ways, I think it matters a little less because this case is clearly going to go up the the courts wherever it originates. Um uh but I suspect, you know, there may be at some point in the near future either motions or the court itself. have to figure out whether this is really the right courthouse for this case or whether there's more efficiency and economy uh if this is brought in Richmond.
I should note for folks watching right now if you're getting your news from Legacy Media, Democracy Docket, which is the news outlet Mark founded to focus on everything voting in elections, was the first and as far as I know only outlet to cover this story. So, if you want to support uh uh independent media that's actually focusing on stories that that are at the forefront of this fight for democracy, please, if you're not yet signed up, sign up for democracy. I'm going to put that link right here on the screen and also in the post description of this video. I use it on a daily basis. It is how I sort through what's happening as it relates to all things democracy. Mark, you had alluded to this before, but can you talk about the lay of the land as it relates to Virginia and and what Democrats might be able to net if they're able to overcome this challenge, this misguided challenge by Republicans?
>> Yeah. So, look, Virginia is a critical state in this fight because it has 11 seats, but five of them are held by Republicans. I mean, look, I came out publicly against the redistricting reform that led to this map. I came out against the map that was drawn by the special masters, the the two people who implemented this reform because there is no way that Virginia is a 65 state. I mean, the fact is it has two Democratic senators. It votes overwhelmingly for president uh for uh for Democrats. Uh it currently has a Republican governor, but that was a that was a weird election. It has in recent years had mostly Democratic governors, mostly Democratic statewide officials. It's about to elect in a landslide a new Democratic governor. So, you know, Virginia is not really even a purple state. It is it is not as blue as New York or California, but it's pretty damn blue. And yet, it has had it has this evenly divided delegation. And I think most people would say that if you redrew the map as a fair map, okay, not a partisan, not without any partisan considerations. This was my argument at the time. If you were to draw a fair map, it would either be uh it would either be 74 or 83. Okay. So, that's probably like a baseline what what a map should look like. But if Democrats were able to draw the map, and you know me, I am I think I think the term you invented is redistricting maximalist. Is that is that the uh is that the term?
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Okay. So, I am a redistricting maximalist. So, uh, look, I think that, um, people who are less maximalist than I am would say that Democrats will easily gain three seats here, could without much of a sweat gain four seats here. It is probably very difficult to do all five seats. Um, so it's an either three or four seat uh uh gain for Democrats. And that will really be, frankly, the question of whether of how many Democrats uh Northern Virginia uh wants to give up. Uh, in other words, how many Democratic voters? In other words, the the the the northern counties of of Virginia, you know, uh, uh, Lowden County, Arlington County, uh, Fairfax County are wildly overwhelmingly Democratic. And, uh, you know, the question is how much those elected officials or how much the legislature and redrawing the map is willing to to to sort of move, uh, the districts to uh, to uh, uh, to to accommodate more Democratic seats. Three, I would say, you know, would be a fair map that could have been drawn on a nonpartisan basis. Four seats would be a partisan map, and I'm in favor of it. And we'll just see where it winds up there.
>> And and I would be in favor of four as well because the whole point here is to counteract what is a blatant Republican power grab. Again, Republicans a had the opportunity to sign on to national legislation that would allow for independent redistricting commissions and ban partisan gerrymanders. They opted not to and it was them onto themselves by fiat who decided to redraw Texas and Missouri and North Carolina. This is a response to Republican overreach. And so the goal here is not just to seek out good government solutions because that ship has sailed. We're not in that world anymore. The goal now has to be to neutralize these blatant power grabs that are happening at the hands of Republicans.
>> Right. And and to that and to that point, I mean, just to put this in perspective, you know, a a um a 101 map in Virginia would not be as egregious as what Republicans are doing in North Carolina or what they did in Missouri. Like it, you know, even a four seat would not be it would be, you know, it would be on par with sort of what Gavin Newsome has done in California where you could ek out a little bit more. Um, but but you know, it's it's it's it's it's an aggressive map, but it's not a crazy it's not like you you look at it visually, the map would look just normal. Um, uh, so I hope they do the four seats. And and I would also note for any of the incumbents who are looking to maximalize their their advantage in that state. You know, you don't need to win your district by 40 points. You don't need to win your district by 30 points. You don't need to win it by 20 or 15 or 10. If you can give up a little bit of your district and still have a 5 6 7 8 9 10 point margin D plus 10 in your district and it would mean that you have a bigger delegation and you can do a service to democracy by helping push back against this Republican power grab, then do that. This is not about making sure that you are in the most comfortable position. This is about making sure that democracy can stand uh in light of the threats that that that we're contending with right now. You know, there were a lot of lawmakers in California who gave up a lot of their districts. Robert Garcia, for example, um basically put himself into a swing state in deference to other uh potential Democrats who will now likely be part of this delegation out in California. And so this is a moment to be selfless in deference to democracy and not make sure that you have a cushy ride to a D plus30 seat in an election where we need as many people to serve as a bull work against the Republicans as we possibly can.
>> Yeah. And I'm glad you I'm glad you mentioned it because you know you've you've of course as usual put your finger on what I was more indirectly referencing which is the preferences of members of Congress for you know how how how much of a cushion they have. I mean, right now, if you look at the current map, you have um a D+18 seat, a D plus 17 seat, a D plus 26 seat, a D+ 18 seat, a D+ uh I'm sorry, a D plus 6 uh seat. So, you've got a lot of Democratic seats that are pretty, you know, that you that, you know, are pretty well insulated. And that's why I say it would not be an extreme gerrymander by any stretch of the imaginations to push more of, you know, to draw these maps in a way that would create more Democratic seats because if you look at the Republicans, they are sitting in like R plus3 even, you know, like the these Republican districts are are are really on the edge because it is really fundamentally a Democratic state. It's not like North Carolina.
>> Right. Well, of course, again, for anybody who's watching, Mark has been an outspoken champion for this issue in particular, and this is the issue that is foundational. Uh, Republicans are trying to entrench a House majority that will never uh that that will never subside, and I think that it's incumbent on us to to be as loud as possible in pushing back against that. There's no better voice on that front than Mark. So, a small step we can all take to support his work and elevate that voice is to sign up for Democracy Docket. So, I'm going to put that link right here on the screen and also in the post description of this video. I'm Brian Teller Cohen.
>> I'm Mark Elias. This is Democracy Watch.
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